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Cunningham if. 00:05:06 Speaker 2: I'm not mistaken. 00:05:07 Speaker 1: She is. 00:05:08 Speaker 2: She is. Yeah. 00:05:09 Speaker 3: As I'm just, I'm saying, you know, there is, there, there might be a little bit. 00:05:15 Speaker 1: Of smoke to this. What do you. 00:05:17 Speaker 2: Think it is? She's still following Aaliyah Boston. 00:05:20 Speaker 4: So you following the teammates, but not the team. 00:05:24 Speaker 2: But she's friends with a lot of different people. 00:05:27 Speaker 1: Right. She's following Alicia Gray, Alyssa Thomas. Like she's following. These are her. 00:05:31 Speaker 2: These are her peers. 00:05:32 Speaker 1: Right. 00:05:33 Speaker 4: That makes sense. 00:05:33 Speaker 1: So even so I'm going back to the TikTok point of Angel saying, I love this for you. People are suggesting she just is friends with these people. What does she love for her? 00:05:42 Speaker 2: What was that? What was the TikTok thing that you saw? The TikTok. Real auntie talk. 00:05:47 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was something that, what was the tick in the tock? Is that what you're asking me? Go on. Well, the tick in the tock was that Kelsey rarely apparently, just based off the context that was given on social media, does Kelsey post things that are more about her personal life? 00:06:01 Speaker 1: And apparently she did. 00:06:03 Speaker 3: So, and that's when a bunch of people were commenting and one of those was Angel Reese. And I think given what we just saw the dream go through, losing in game seven, there's a lot of people that sort of want to see Kelsey Mitchell play with Angel, maybe be that piece that gets them over the hump, whatever. But I'll say this, if she doesn't wind up with the fever, I don't think people should 100% read this as an indictment of the fever. I think they should also read it as she is coming off a career year. 00:06:34 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:06:35 Speaker 1: And There are. 00:06:37 Speaker 3: There's going to be a lot of competition for her services, especially by teams who are trying to do what the Valkyries just did or do what the Dream just did. 00:06:46 Speaker 4: They're looking at somebody like her who is an. 00:06:48 Speaker 3: Automatic bucket and they are wondering, hey, could she be the missing piece? So this is this is going to be this courting process is going to be her her version of the Bachelorette. 00:07:01 Speaker 4: Like, were everybody trying to win the rose? 00:07:04 Speaker 1: Well, she unfollowed, but Sophie left a message, and she was like, mm, okay, Miss PDA. Like, so she was like, I like it, and she like, like, so... She's still friendly with all of these people. And so that doesn't mean that, you know, I'm not going to walk back the fact that she's not. To me, that's even more of an indication that she's done with the fever. 00:07:23 Speaker 4: The fact that she ain't following them, like, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:07:25 Speaker 1: But yeah, talking to everybody else is more of an indication. We're kind of doing it. If I had to guess, well, like you said, a lot of competition for her services. But wherever she goes, it almost feels like it makes that team automatic, depending on the makeup of that team. I can see the aces wanting her. 00:07:41 Speaker 2: You know what I mean? 00:07:42 Speaker 1: Like, what do they do? What changes do they need to make, right? Like, it would be great. Of course, the dream. Anybody would want her. Any team would want her. 00:07:51 Speaker 2: Any team. 00:07:53 Speaker 1: But she's going to go where she can win. She's not going to be on a team just to be on a team and money. She's going to go where she can win. This is about rings for her. 00:08:01 Speaker 3: Well, automatically, I thought about looking at the expansion franchises, because as you pointed out, and I certainly agree with, is that the Valkyries have put other teams on a different timetable now. Now they have ratcheted up the pressure and the expectations and the timetable for how long. 00:08:19 Speaker 1: It takes you to win. 00:08:21 Speaker 3: You could easily see a scenario where maybe a team like Toronto... just got to the league, if not for some injuries, they actually played pretty well. 00:08:29 Speaker 1: Yeah, but are they, does that a mix and serve? Does she get there and they become championship contenders? 00:08:35 Speaker 2: I don't know about that. 00:08:36 Speaker 3: That's what I'm wondering is that a lot of this, again, we have to, now that we're dealing with a more fruitful salary cap for a lot of these teams, they may be able to put something together. I'm not saying Toronto is where she winds up, but if she is looking to be a featured piece and also in a position to win, I could see a scenario where it's a Valkyries-like situation only in the sense of where they're constructing something. You could be a big piece of this and then we're maybe off to the races. I don't know if it'll necessarily be somebody who's proven and already done it, but somebody that feels like, hey, I think we're about to do something. 00:09:14 Speaker 4: And you look at a team like the Washington Mystics, right? 00:09:16 Speaker 3: I was thinking about them, too. Yeah, the young hoes. That's what they call themselves, people, just so you know. 00:09:23 Speaker 2: The hoopers. 00:09:25 Speaker 1: The young hoopers. 00:09:26 Speaker 4: Get your minds out the gutter. 00:09:27 Speaker 3: But the young hoes, like, you put somebody like Kelsey Mitchell with them, I don't know. 00:09:34 Speaker 1: And by the way, that's another thing. Does she want to be the star? Is that her personality? Does she want to go somewhere where she is thus finally recognized as the star? Because a lot of the players, if not all of the players for the Valkyries, were all considered role players. 00:09:46 Speaker 2: They had always been. 00:09:49 Speaker 1: Go back to Gabby Williams' statement saying she's always been disrespected by the media, knowing that she's inferring that I've been

this star. 00:09:56 Speaker 2: You guys never noticed it. And so is that important? to her? I don't know. 00:10:02 Speaker 1: But the hunt is on and I cannot wait for that announcement because I can imagine what it is going to be. She automatically makes that team better. I would think she was going somewhere where she could win a chip very much like what DB wanted. She was like, look, I'm 39. I'm going to win a chip. They made it happen for her, put her on the dream, and they were just that close. So I get it. Like, she wanted to, and look, say what you want, ring Chase, say whatever. I do understand that some of these women have done the work. I wouldn't even say that about DB. 00:10:29 Speaker 2: It's disrespectful. 00:10:30 Speaker 1: But these women have done the work and they're like, before I go, I'd like to get another chip. 00:10:33 Speaker 2: Thank you. I'm still a part of this. Like I would be too. 00:10:36 Speaker 1: If I was a vet and I'm on the tail end of my career and I'm watching all this money come in and I'm watching these people do well, like put me in it. 00:10:43 Speaker 3: Because who wants to be rebuilding in the last few years of their career? 00:10:48 Speaker 1: They don't want to do that. And you add automatic value. automatic value as someone, a DB, a Kelsey Mitchell, automatic value on and off the court, just automatic value, how you can keep a locker room, how you stop a young team who hadn't necessarily been here before from being nervous. How, you know, Coach Nat with the Valkyries said they didn't understand, her players didn't understand what they were supposed to do in terms of executing. You have a DB on a team like that? Hey, coach, let me highlight you. What do you need us to do? Because I don't think it's clear. That conversation is being had. So I'm really curious to see where you think she would go. You're still in the prediction business. Oh, no. 00:11:28 Speaker 3: I'm out of the prediction business. I am not going to predict where she will go. But one thing I do. 00:11:34 Speaker 1: Give me three. 00:11:35 Speaker 2: Give me three. 00:11:35 Speaker 3: Well, and see, this is how Carrie gets me. 00:11:39 Speaker 4: She'll put that pressure on me to try to predict. 00:11:41 Speaker 1: One other possibility I will bring up. And you're right. 00:11:48 Speaker 3: This all depends on what's important to Kelsey Mitchell at this point of her career. Because, you know, another team that if I'm them, I'm hollering at her because I think, and you guys make sure I'm right about. 00:11:59 Speaker 4: This, Cleveland, do they start next year? 00:12:01 Speaker 1: They do. They do, right? Mm-hmm. 00:12:04 Speaker 3: So Kelsey is, I believe she's from either Ohio or she was born in Ohio. 00:12:11 Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. 00:12:12 Speaker 4: I'm just— and listen, one of the reasons— well, think about this. 00:12:16 Speaker 1: With the fever— Why would she go to Cleveland when she just left Indiana? Because it's an opportunity. Knowing who the owner is and what she might have to deal with there as well. 00:12:24 Speaker 3: Because, yeah, she was born in Cincinnati. I guess home, but do I— And she went to Ohio State. 00:12:30 Speaker 1: But do I want to be in that— and I'm not putting any disparaging remarks on Cincinnati, but we do know— Excuse me, on Cleveland. But we do know who the owner is and his very red-leaning affiliations. 00:12:44 Speaker 3: Yeah, but a lot of the owners are that way. 00:12:48 Speaker 1: I mean, it might be a little less in the WBA. Actually, I just saw most are. 00:12:53 Speaker 2: Yeah, but no, you're right. I just actually saw something about that. 00:12:55 Speaker 1: A lot of them are that way. 00:12:56 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right. 00:12:57 Speaker 1: So it doesn't really matter. So she might want her. 00:12:58 Speaker 2: But she might want to go home then. 00:12:59 Speaker 1: Yeah, sure. She might want to go home. 00:13:01 Speaker 3: I mean, that was one reason she stayed in Indiana for as long as she did is because of the proximity to home. 00:13:07 Speaker 4: So I'm thinking you went to Ohio State. You're from Ohio. 00:13:11 Speaker 3: Cleveland would make her the star of the franchise because she's the local connection that people want to see. 00:13:16 Speaker 1: She's coming off a great year. 00:13:18 Speaker 3: I have got to think that Cleveland is at least in the conversation. 00:13:22 Speaker 1: Yeah, and they'll build around her. They'll build around her. Wait, how old is she? 00:13:27 Speaker 2: How old is she? Because I want to know. 00:13:28 Speaker 4: It's like, is Kelsey 30? 00:13:30 Speaker 1: Let me look. Let me look and see. So if she's 30 and the timetable, since the Valkyries gave us a new timetable, she's 30. So if the timetable is two years to win a chip, that's feasible. She may be okay with not winning her first as soon as she gets there. 00:13:45 Speaker 2: Who knows? 00:13:46 Speaker 3: And the Valkyries, they did make the playoffs their first year. So you at least knew. 00:13:50 Speaker 1: They're headed in the right direction. 00:13:53 Speaker 2: Since they put everybody on notice. 00:13:54 Speaker 1: Okay, well, these are all places, Jamel. I like it. 00:13:56 Speaker 2: This could be it. 00:13:57 Speaker 4: Oh, look, Peter says she turns 31 on Thursday. 00:13:59 Speaker 2: All right, happy birthday. Happy early birthday. 00:14:01 Speaker 1: It is. 00:14:02 Speaker 4: Happy early birthday to Kelsey. 00:14:05 Speaker 3: Yeah, we have another conversation we're going to talk about that involves her. 00:14:11 Speaker 1: Who? Kelsey Mitchell. 00:14:14 Speaker 3: Based off something that a former NBA player said. 00:14:18 Speaker 4: But it's not really about Kelsey. It's really about a much broader topic. 00:14:21 Speaker 3: But Kelsey's name was mentioned when we were talking about the marketability of WNBA women and just women athletes in general. So we're going to get to that. But also, I am dying to hear your

opinion, Carrie, about this Navidia chief who has been caught and ousted. to be having this affair with this Chinese spy because you and I both love The Lioness. 00:14:43 Speaker 4: And if this don't feel like an episode of The. 00:14:45 Speaker 1: Lioness, I don't know what does. 00:14:47 Speaker 2: It does. 00:14:48 Speaker 1: You reminded me of that, and I had to go back and think. I was like, is it old, that one section? But, you know, I'm kind of off The Lioness, y'all, but okay. 00:14:54 Speaker 3: I know, but isn't next season supposed to be the last season? 00:14:59 Speaker 1: You got to care. 00:15:00 Speaker 4: You invested too much. 00:15:02 Speaker 1: You cannot. Peter said honeypot. It's so true. The Navidian Chief was a honeypot. Yes! 00:15:10 Speaker 2: That's right. 00:15:10 Speaker 4: Who would say honeypot? 00:15:11 Speaker 3: My Lioness fans know what I'm talking about. So we will also get to that in a moment. But first, we're going to take a quick break and we'll come back and discuss all these things right here on Flagrant. 00:15:21 Speaker 1: And Funny with Jemele Hill and Carrie Champion. Honeypot. 00:15:34 Speaker 3: Carrie, I did notice, because I remember when we had this conversation earlier, When all of this went down about Diana Rossini and Mike Rabel, Diana Rossini, as many people know, she was, I mean, would you say that that was the biggest maybe offseason NFL story? I mean, it kind of felt like it was, but nevertheless, there was, we don't know, we still don't know what was happening with her and Mike Rabel, who is the coach of the New England Patriots, but it resulted in Diana Rossini losing her job at the Athletic. 00:16:04 Speaker 1: Where she was an NFL insider. 00:16:06 Speaker 3: And we had this whole rolling conversation about insiders and boundary crossing and blah, blah, blah, and this and that. And a lot of people believe that Diana Rossini's career was pretty much done. Well, I guess to quote Geno Smith, they tried to write me off, but she ain't right back. 00:16:22 Speaker 4: And she has a new gig with a betting. 00:16:25 Speaker 3: Firm called BetUS, I should say, I almost said BetUS, where she will have a weekly show and a column where she will obviously be talking about the NFL. And a lot of it is built around, you know, the gambling, the games, game previews. But the whole point is that she's back in the mix now. Are you surprised, I guess, that she's back so quickly or surprised that she's back at all? 00:16:50 Speaker 1: A little bit of both. A little bit of both. You and I know her well enough to know that she loves what she does. And this is probably why she's back, because she couldn't imagine doing anything else. And then a lot of it might be just like pride, like you can't run me off, that what is happening is silly. And if we take it from the contextual frame of even just gender roles, you know, she could argue, one would argue that her insider relationship requires her to have more of a friendship than just a professional working relationship. And you can see that with other insiders on other networks who are men. It doesn't necessarily require you to have anything. It doesn't require you to sleep with them and have an extramarital affair, allegedly, or what people are inferring. 00:17:38 Speaker 2: I don't know if that happened. 00:17:39 Speaker 1: But it does require you to have a friendship beyond the working hours. And we have seen that. With other insiders. I'm sure that they have dinners, barbecues, hangouts. 00:17:51 Speaker 3: Oh, they definitely do. I mean, Jane Glazer does a coach's barbecue every year. 00:17:56 Speaker 2: All the time. 00:17:56 Speaker 1: And they said she created one as well for the athletic because she saw that he was doing it and she was trying to get people around. you could argue that they have inappropriate relationships when they go out at night. You could say that some insiders go to strip clubs with some of the coaches or whatever the case may be. 00:18:14 Speaker 2: They have a boys club. That's all alleged. I don't know if that's true. 00:18:18 Speaker 1: But there are those who have made that argument that her relationship is just like other insider relationships except for she's a woman, so it's going to be viewed through a very different lens. and I could see her holding on to that and being like, that doesn't mean I no longer deserve a seat at the table. I can't speak to, no one has proved anything, but Vrabel all but said there was an inappropriate relationship. So that suggests to me that they did more than just had a working relationship. And I could see her being like, I'm just going to figure it out. I don't think that She hasn't discussed this with her husband, her close friends. I don't know if she has an agent, a mentor. She talked with a lot of people, I would assume, before she decided to make this move. They have been hinting at her coming back for a while now. So I assume that this working relationship or this perhaps this situation has been on the table for a while and she wanted to look a certain way and she had been, you know, who knows? 00:19:17 Speaker 2: It's a show. 00:19:17 Speaker 1: Maybe she was doing rehearsals. I've never heard of this platform, but the The platform probably had to be up. They have two other shows. I looked up the two other shows. They have a Pick'Em show, a Pick'Em show and a prediction show, Pick'Em and Predictions. 00:19:29 Speaker 2: They do predictions there. 00:19:31 Speaker 1: And then they had another show with one of the other talents, very similar to what Diana Rossini is doing. It's going to be where she's going to have interviews and she's going to be talking to people. I'm getting to this. I am really curious about if she will address it on her first show. I think everyone will be looking to see if she will address that scandal or will she just jump right off the bat and start talking about sports. The other thing that I'm

interested in is because there is a stigma and you know that we live in such a follow culture, I wonder who her first guest will be. Who will say, I stand with you. Who will say, I'm sorry that you were treated this way. I still believe in your work ethic. Or, hey, you made a mistake, but I still think that it did not compromise the type of reporter you were. You know, who knows? 00:20:19 Speaker 2: I know that there are others already saying, I'm not paying it. 00:20:23 Speaker 1: Other quote unquote, well-respected journalists who've said that I won't pay attention to what she's doing. I think that she's already compromised. I don't know why she's coming back. People have their many, many, you know, it's trendy to hate. I am looking into those relationships, how she will address it and who will come on the show. That's what I have to say about it. I don't think, I don't have an opinion on whether or not she should have come back. There's a part of me that was like, okay, look, It happens all the time. How many times do we see somebody come back from a scandal, skirt around a scandal, ignore a scandal, pretend like the scandal didn't happen? And I'm using scandal in whatever terms you find inappropriate, whatever terms that you might feel like, okay, that means this person had an inappropriate relationship. It happens all the time and people bounce back. You don't think twice about it. They come back, they get their jobs back, they... get a similar job, they move a different position, and they start all over again. And so maybe this is her 2.0. And she feels like she's entitled to have it as she has seen others do the same. Yeah. 00:21:26 Speaker 3: It's funny because the person, when you were saying that we've seen people come back from scandal, some you could say far worse than this. 00:21:33 Speaker 1: I immediately thought about Marv Albert. 00:21:35 Speaker 3: The kids don't know Marv. yo, they had Marv out there and some pretty freaky stuff. 00:21:43 Speaker 1: Or there are people currently who have platforms in Scandal, and brawled in Scandal, and still continue to have their platform currently while doing said show. They're like, who knows, right? So personally and professionally. So it has been done before. And I know that And I'm not making any excuses for her, but I think because a lot of it has to do with the fact because she's a woman. I think a lot of it has to do with that. In terms of like all the... All the attention, like, oh my gosh, she got a shirt. The attention, scrutiny, criticism. Marv Alpert went away for a very long time. He did. A very long time. He did. And then he came back and all is well and he's still considered the legend, right? 00:22:23 Speaker 2: All is well. Oh yeah, baby. 00:22:25 Speaker 3: I'm like, ooh, Marv. Mark let his freak flag fly. 00:22:29 Speaker 1: Or we can go down a list of athletes who have come back from, we'll be here all day. Yes. And I'm not making excuses for her, but what I am saying is

that this isn't uncommon. I personally am surprised that she did it so quickly, but the fact that she has enough bravado to be like, I'm doing my job, you won't chase me out of something that I love to do, have at it. 00:22:51 Speaker 3: So I think the, to me, what the core issue was always, from a journalistic standpoint, were there standards and ethics that were violated? 00:23:00 Speaker 1: And that to me was the important component. 00:23:02 Speaker 3: How y'all do y'all personal thing, whatever was happening, that's between y'all households. 00:23:08 Speaker 2: All right. 00:23:09 Speaker 3: But I think the part that people were concerned about, and I certainly was, was, okay, did this lead to maybe some softer coverage? Did it lead to you know, other things that could have compromised your reporting. But to be honest, as you pointed out, looking at the insider role in general, it's actually built, it's a job that is built for those kind of compromises. And I don't know if that's good or bad. I tend to think that it's bad. But the fact is, to be an insider, you have to cozy up to your sources in a way that I think by most journalistic standpoint, it would be at best borderline, okay? And so there's going to be friendships and relationships that develop that are of more of a personal nature. Again, it doesn't involve sleeping with somebody. It's going to require you to look away. It's going to require some horse trading as well. It's going to require all of these things. Like, I know this about so-and-so. I can't necessarily report that. That's a part of this insider relationship. 00:24:10 Speaker 1: And while it may affect the game, I'm not reporting that because the other things that I am getting from this relationship are beneficial. You can assume. I just feel like they are. I think that they are. They're strange bedfellows, as the kids would say. And kids wouldn't say that. 00:24:25 Speaker 3: But the kids don't know what a bedfellow is, Carrie. They don't know. They can't tell time. Haven't we gone through this before? Sorry, kids, but I put a clock in front of you. and give you 10 seconds to figure it out, we probably all dead. 00:24:40 Speaker 4: But anyway, that's the point. 00:24:43 Speaker 1: It's not digitized. 00:24:44 Speaker 2: 12 o'clock. 00:24:45 Speaker 3: If I put that rotary phone down, your whole brain will explode. 00:24:49 Speaker 2: You won't know what to do. 00:24:51 Speaker 3: But no, it is a business that does lend itself to that. And you can tell by how certain insiders report certain things. Like, oh yeah, this came directly from the agent. Or this came, I remember an insider that I knew told me in a salary, you know, agent was in a salary negotiation where he's trying to get his client more money. And he totally gave him some false numbers that wound up embarrassing him because he was trying to leverage that. And if a report got out by this particular insider, that was going to help him in terms of his client. And stuff like that happens literally all the time. So the one thing that I didn't, and you did notice that a lot of the other insiders, we had this conversation on the previous podcast about noticing who the haters are when you're going through the thick of it. 00:25:41 Speaker 4: Also notice who's silent. 00:25:43 Speaker 3: And a lot of those insiders didn't have a whole lot to say about Diana Rossini, I think, because they know That if people put a microscope under how they report, what they report, what they leave out, compromises they make, a lot of them would not. 00:25:58 Speaker 1: Mistakes that they have made. Mistakes, definitely. 00:26:00 Speaker 3: A lot of them would not have held up under that screen. 00:26:04 Speaker 1: They've been sued for false reporting. It is a very. 00:26:06 Speaker 2: It's an endless list. 00:26:10 Speaker 1: It's a very, very intense business when you call yourself an insider. And so that's why these people act that way. There are people who just didn't like her because they thought that she wasn't nice. And I guess a lot of that job does require you to forget about your courtesies. 00:26:24 Speaker 3: I mean, you have to have a certain level of ruthlessness to do that job. 00:26:29 Speaker 1: You do. It's like being the CEO of NVIDIA. You know what I mean? 00:26:34 Speaker 4: We're going to talk about him in a minute, Keri. Don't derail it just yet. 00:26:38 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Don't be real. 00:26:40 Speaker 3: Our latest episode, our bonus episode of lying is that we didn't know that we were getting. 00:26:43 Speaker 4: Don't be religious yet. 00:26:46 Speaker 3: But one thing I'll add, too, about Racine in terms of whether or not, because of this attention economy that we live in, is that it used to be there was a line between infamy and being famous. Now I think being infamous works for you just as much as being famous. And so right now she's living in a bubble of infamy. And if you're this betting company that you, I'm not deep in the betting world, so I don't know among bettors if this is a more popular company than we realize. I mean, obviously we know DraftKings, we know FanDuel, like those sorts of things. But if you're them and there's somebody like Diana Rossini who's out there with her expertise, her contacts, yeah, you probably take a chance on that every day. Because now all of a sudden people are talking about your site. They want to know just what you want to know, at least for the first episode. They want to know, does she address it off the top? 00:27:42 Speaker 4: And who else does it promise interviews? Who is going to be on her show? 00:27:47 Speaker 3: Because there is this thing that happens when you become infamous where people may not have necessarily an issue with you, but they may not want to be associated with the thing that you're associated with. I'm sure behind closed doors, she still has a lot of those relationships she developed with players, coaches, GMs,

that kind of thing. But they can't publicly be seen with her, so to speak. So I am very curious who she has that comes on and for that matter, what this step can lead to, because there were definitely some outlets that I could have seen hiring her because I don't think they're under the same level of scrutiny. 00:28:22 Speaker 4: So there wouldn't have been a lot of finger wagging. 00:28:25 Speaker 1: Yeah. She probably fielded some offers. She probably felt like. 00:28:28 Speaker 4: I'm sure this probably wasn't the only. 00:28:30 Speaker 2: The first. 00:28:30 Speaker 1: Yeah. Right. Yeah. I'm sure that it was. 00:28:32 Speaker 2: Because you're. 00:28:33 Speaker 1: Because there is this one intrigue and the story to me took on a whole nother life. It went from just something within our world to you know, mainstream media. And then people just dropping dimes and dropping photos whenever they saw them. And then there's just trail. I know, I was like, so y'all were just sitting on all this? I was just like, yes, they were. As we're going to get ready to talk to you in a minute with all these photos popping up. Yes, they are people. No matter. You know what? One day they're going to catch them. I'm going to wait. Bam. Lesson is this. You're always being watched, right? That is a true lesson. So whatever you do in the dark, as it says in the Bible, comes to light. And so it comes out when needed. People are very, um, capitalistic in the sense that they were like, if I can make some money off of this, because I'm pretty sure people were paying for some of them photos. Those photos didn't just come casually. Or maybe people weren't fans of the, you know, the Giants. And they were like, let's get them, take them down. 00:29:21 Speaker 4: Like, we hate the Patriots. We don't, they're done. 00:29:25 Speaker 1: Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. 00:29:26 Speaker 2: I knew you meant the Patriots. Yes, that's to get it out. 00:29:29 Speaker 1: Yes, right, yes. Okay, so I will say this. As a journalist, you have a code of, standard. 00:29:37 Speaker 2: You just do. 00:29:38 Speaker 1: And I think it's definitely more highlighted with women just because of the nature. And when you're in sports media, it's highlighted more because of the likelihood that you could be dating an athlete and or having any kind of friendship slash relationship with someone else. 00:29:56 Speaker 2: That's in your world. 00:29:58 Speaker 1: And I do believe that it's such an unfortunate because I see it go down. I feel like it's an unfortunate double standard in the sense that there's so much scandal happening. But she I feel like hers had such a crazy amount of tension because of the journalistic aspect of it. 00:30:15 Speaker 4: You think that was why? I don't think it was just the journalism. 00:30:19 Speaker 1: No, I think it was because, well, at least that's how it came across from our colleagues. Our colleagues were like, because remember there were women coming out. They were journalistically outraged. They were journalistically outraged. And then they were thinking about how she scooped them for stories and what she found out that they didn't know. And then the competition level came in of it all. 00:30:33 Speaker 4: I think it was the drama. It was the salaciousness. 00:30:36 Speaker 3: It was the fact that you had two married people who were seen holding hands, looking real cozy and. 00:30:43 Speaker 1: And then the pregnancy, and then you're like, wait, what's happening? I was all of that. Yeah, no, it was like, wait, wait, so what happened? 00:30:50 Speaker 2: Correct. 00:30:51 Speaker 1: So if she comes back now, she already knows everything is above board. 00:30:56 Speaker 2: There is nothing. 00:30:57 Speaker 1: The trust that she, I wonder, the trust and the relationships that she has been able to build up over the years, do they disappear overnight? I'm really curious about how she goes about handling this personally and professionally. because there is a part of me that still feels like. 00:31:14 Speaker 2: You know what I mean? It's a bit like, oh, goodness, okay. 00:31:17 Speaker 1: It's a little uncomfortable. But you got to rip the band-aid off and come back. 00:31:21 Speaker 4: It's a lot uncomfortable. Not that she needs my advice. 00:31:24 Speaker 3: You know, if I were her, honestly, I would have done a big interview leading into this to address those things. 00:31:31 Speaker 1: She might do it. 00:31:32 Speaker 3: Maybe one might come out, you know, when this podcast airs, it'll be the day her show debuts on BET-US. And so I'm... I would have thought like some Today Show or some big, gigantic interview. 00:31:45 Speaker 1: I don't know if Today Show is where she can, yeah, she can't get into the grit. 00:31:49 Speaker 3: But like some big, mainstream, exclusive type of interview would have come out where she could explain her side of the story or maybe she has no explanation. 00:32:00 Speaker 4: I don't know. 00:32:01 Speaker 3: But I would have done that leading into this so that you don't have to necessarily address it on your own show. Or maybe she's thinking, like a lot of people think, hey, if I'm going to, Explain myself. I'm going to do it on my own platform and get all the benefit of the attention, the likes, the views, and the headlines. 00:32:18 Speaker 4: So she could be thinking that. 00:32:19 Speaker 2: So your point. 00:32:21 Speaker 1: She could. I would. If I were her, I'd just address it off the bat. Like, here's the elephant in the room. This is what color it is. Let's talk about it. I think also making a personal statement, you know, is her way of talking about it on her own terms. 00:32:39 Speaker 2: Does that make sense? 00:32:40 Speaker 1: It does. It does. I tell you what I wouldn't do, though. 00:32:42 Speaker 3: I wouldn't send a company-wide email telling people I cheated on my wife like Jensen Huang. 00:32:46 Speaker 1: Okay, so the CEO of NVIDIA is Jensen Huang, and he,

or Wang, he co-founded the company in 93. And now he is under an independent board investigation after admitting an extramarital affair with a woman who appears to work for another Chinese tech company and perhaps is a Chinese spy intelligence officer. 00:33:10 Speaker 2: Slash intelligence officer. 00:33:12 Speaker 1: All of these videos are coming out of them being together and how they interact and leaving together in a car after dinner and him just holding court with her. 00:33:21 Speaker 3: Just out in the open. They ghosted Angela running around New York. Is that what happened? 00:33:26 Speaker 1: Well, now you're going back to our point by the earlier conversations. You're looking at every interaction. You're like, that doesn't look professional to me. That doesn't look professional to me. So NVIDIA, when this came out, and I think this is interesting, because when this all came out, The story was, and I think it's very timely that it comes out not long after midterms. This also happens on the same weekend that the stocks took a huge plunge. AI tech stocks took a huge, huge, a nosedive. And then they obviously rebounded the next day. But the conversation has been, like apparently, this has been under investigation for some time. President Trump was- alerted to this information back in late 2025 that they believed that the CEO of NVIDIA had been having an inappropriate relationship with the person who is sharing intelligence with the Chinese. And as you know, there have been these big, huge, it's not even the race to space, but this is the race to tech, if you will. The chips that NVIDIA creates are apparently better than the ones that they have in China. And for some time, specifically in Beijing, they have been asking for the old chips. And Jensen hasn't had a problem selling. However, there have been these restrictions here in the United States that says, no, not so much, because we want to be the first. And when President Trump was made aware of what was going on with this Chinese spy and this CEO, he kind of just let it slide. He didn't want to deal with it. And people are suggesting because Tech companies are making a lot of money. He's making a lot of money. 00:35:02 Speaker 3: I was saying Trump has a piece of NVIDIA as well. 00:35:05 Speaker 1: So he doesn't. 00:35:06 Speaker 2: He was like, let him do what he wants to do. Let him cook. 00:35:09 Speaker 1: I think this story has been baking for a while and it dropped because of what is happening in the House and in the Senate, because investigations are going to start day one. of corruption, of what is happening, and specifically what has happened these last two years. So Jensen decides to send an email and says, yes, I've embarrassed my family. 00:35:27 Speaker 2: I had an extramarital affair. My bad. I apologize. 00:35:32 Speaker 1: He sends it. And your first question is, I wonder if someone replied all. That's what you want to know. 00:35:37 Speaker 3: That's what I wanted to know, because I would have hit reply at all, like, take me off this chain. 00:35:42 Speaker 4: Who put me on here? 00:35:44 Speaker 2: I don't want to be in this group text. 00:35:45 Speaker 3: I mean, because company-wide emails are usually reserved for, I don't know, hey, the cafeteria's got different hours now. Or, you know, we have a company picnic that's coming up. 00:35:58 Speaker 1: MLK is officially a holiday. You guys are all off on Monday. 00:36:01 Speaker 3: Hey, you guys, Juneteenth, all yours. Not necessarily made for it. By the way, y'all, I cheated on my wife. 00:36:07 Speaker 1: My bad. I'm sorry. You know, the thing about this is, I think, well, one, well, one, it's always the honeypot, right? They talked about this in Lioness, right? They did, but I mean, the men are so predictable. Like, you didn't see her coming? You didn't see her coming? 00:36:27 Speaker 3: Like, all of a sudden, this young, very, and you guys can Google and see what she looks like. Like, young, very attractive. And maybe he just thought, oh, she's just here for the money. It's like, bro, did you really think? 00:36:38 Speaker 1: They didn't send her. They sent her. I would be thinking, who sent her? Who sent this woman? 00:36:43 Speaker 2: They sent her. 00:36:44 Speaker 1: Immediately. Who sent her? 00:36:47 Speaker 2: She is an op. Who sent her? 00:36:48 Speaker 1: I think also it's interesting that the company released a statement that said, we support him 100%. We don't think he compromised anything. He's not that kind of person. Wait, so you're trying to tell me the man who's been cheating on his wife with this young woman couldn't probably— share some information over pillow talk. A little pillow talk. A little pillow talk. They're like, no, so we support him 100%. And by the way, that's what they're supposed to say. So an outside company, which I'm sure they hired, is coming in to do an outside investigation on what happened. But no matter what happened, this is not a good look for NVIDIA. NVIDIA was all the rage. Like these last few years, that's all people talked about. He was the guy, if you guys don't remember, who met with the Pope, who had a closed door meeting with the Pope so that the Pope would, he tried to convince the Pope. 00:37:30 Speaker 2: That AI has a moral high ground. 00:37:32 Speaker 1: He was trying to tell the Pope that he wanted him to understand and share with others that this artificial intelligence is actually something that has a moral responsibility to the world, and the Pope refused. And he almost walked out of the meeting because the Pope didn't want to do it. There's a whole story about him. If you just Google who this man is and his His influence that he has had over the AI world in the last few years has been significant. And obviously, because he and Trump have a very, very close relationship, he's talked Trump into easing some of these restrictions that they had in place before with AI. 00:38:03 Speaker 3: He's

given a lot of money to Trump's campaign. I believe he's one of the ballroom donors as well, the disastrous ballroom. Yeah, so he's been part of this sort of pay-for-access culture that has been created with this administration. 00:38:18 Speaker 1: From a... All I know is.... 00:38:21 Speaker 4: You know, internet best detectives. 00:38:23 Speaker 3: And it's been alleged that Jensen Wang does not have a prenup with his current wife. 00:38:29 Speaker 2: Okay? 00:38:30 Speaker 1: Because they've been together for a long time. And she was. 00:38:32 Speaker 2: She's been there since 93. 00:38:33 Speaker 1: She's been there since the beginning. I don't know how long, but yeah. 00:38:36 Speaker 3: But she's been there for a long time and was a piece in helping him build this company that is now a behemoth, right? And all I know is Mackenzie Scott And Melissa French Gates probably just invited her to the group chat. 00:38:51 Speaker 4: Like, sis, we got some intel for you. 00:38:55 Speaker 3: Because the rough estimate, if they were divorced and this half-half's the way it halves in a divorce with no prenup, she could get $ 81 billion, Carrie. 00:39:06 Speaker 1: $ 81 billion! Dude! 00:39:07 Speaker 2: I don't think she's leaving. 00:39:09 Speaker 4: I don't know, man, because there's levels to this. 00:39:12 Speaker 3: As we discussed this in the last podcast, you don't know what kind of arrangements different marriages have. 00:39:18 Speaker 1: Like, that's why you stay out of married folks' business. This is very true. 00:39:22 Speaker 3: That being said, if there was such an arrangement, there's also the humiliation embarrassment factor and... the, oh, he could have been trading secrets to a Chinese spy. So that's going to put this in a different category than just some run-of-the-mill kind of affair. 00:39:41 Speaker 1: That's what the men are saying about Ayesha Curry, by the way. She's embarrassing him. That's the same argument that they have. Because he actually cheated on her. Well, no, no, no. Ayesha Curry hasn't done anything. But that is the equivalent to the men. You see what I'm saying? 00:39:54 Speaker 2: There's a different standard for them, right? 00:39:57 Speaker 1: They have a different standard of what's embarrassing and what's not embarrassing. 00:39:59 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's pretty embarrassing if your husband is out there and caught cheating with a Chinese spy. 00:40:05 Speaker 4: Like, yes, that's embarrassing that the whole company is. 00:40:09 Speaker 1: But not kissing a man in a movie. Yes, as an actress. Like, that is not embarrassing. 00:40:15 Speaker 3: Cheating on your wife, having a Chinese spy side chick, that is embarrassing. 00:40:19 Speaker 1: A Chinese spy side chick? 00:40:21 Speaker 4: That is actually embarrassing, all right? 00:40:23 Speaker 2: Let's not name the episode that, please. 00:40:24 Speaker 3: And especially when you are messing up, as they say, the church's money. Now, I say this from a selfish perspective. 00:40:32 Speaker 4: I invested in NVIDIA in like 2018, 2019. 00:40:34 Speaker 3: It exploded my stock portfolio because. 00:40:38 Speaker 1: Of how they done. Then it dropped last Thursday. 00:40:41 Speaker 2: I'm at it just playing. I'm like, bruh. 00:40:44 Speaker 1: Of all the people. Like, really? You have to watch. 00:40:50 Speaker 2: You have to watch. 00:40:51 Speaker 1: While you say this is an episode of Lioness, you got to watch War. War is doing this exact same thing. War is about a husband and wife. 00:41:00 Speaker 2: The wife had her own money. 00:41:02 Speaker 1: She was an actress, but a going down actress, like at the tail end of her career. And then the other story is that her husband started this AI tech company. And he was at the very beginning of the AI tech company. 00:41:16 Speaker 2: And it was her. And they did it together. 00:41:18 Speaker 1: It built up. It's worth billions of dollars. And she sent in a woman to honeypot trap him, if you will. Really? Yeah. He sleeps with the woman. And then the wife asks for a divorce. And she's dangling that over his head like, you cheated on me. And they go back and forth. Because they both are trying, she's trying to keep, she wants to get half if not more than half. 00:41:41 Speaker 2: And he's trying to keep most of his money. And it is intense. Like, it is intense. 00:41:45 Speaker 1: And it reminds me that they take bits and pieces from real life. Because this, where are the writers in the writer's room? Because this real life story is literally happening in real time. 00:41:56 Speaker 2: And I'm like, I can't wait for the movie. 00:41:58 Speaker 1: I think that if you, if they are really investigating him, they'll find, I have a hard time believing he didn't share any secrets. 00:42:04 Speaker 3: It would be impossible, especially this felt, this didn't feel, this wasn't like a one night stand. 00:42:09 Speaker 1: This was like a full blown affair. 00:42:11 Speaker 3: But they, again, as I said, they Angela and Ghost running together in the streets of New York, knowing like, what? 00:42:17 Speaker 1: What are we doing? You know what I'm saying? 00:42:20 Speaker 3: Hey, listen, his wife is about to be the hottest woman married woman on the market. 00:42:29 Speaker 1: Yeah, they just posted a picture of her and them together at these different events. She about to get a, tell her to call. Mike says, tell her to call me. 00:42:35 Speaker 3: Coscarelli's available. Coscarelli's available. 00:42:40 Speaker 1: Coscarelli, she wants to fly around the world. You're going to have to get over your fear of flying. You can't take her to Jersey. You can't drive, you guys can't subway back and forth throughout the city. She's going to want to She's going to want to hop on a plane and do some fun. If it's private, maybe I can deal with it. Yeah, right. 00:42:55 Speaker 4: Now it's only a private plane. 00:42:57 Speaker 1: You see how he does? 00:42:59 Speaker 4: Just a ditty like

that, right? 00:43:00 Speaker 1: Well, listen, I'm going to say this. I honestly hope that there is some real investigation. I hope that this is just the beginning. And this goes back to us talking about the day after elections. People are like, oh, you don't want to be revenge. 00:43:13 Speaker 2: No, accountability. 00:43:14 Speaker 1: I'll tell them what these people have been doing these last few years when there has been no regulations on AI and how that has cost the American people. This is a perfect example of where accountability starts. They've been sitting on this story and they drop it and they look and they're dropping it now. Right. Because they've been watching this for some time. They had this intelligence late last year. And so they've been holding on and holding on for the right moment. And this is the first step in what we'll see many steps, I believe, in that accountability. It's not revenge, but it's accountability. You can't talk your way out of this. And hopefully the people that are in place now in terms of the leaders of the House and the Senate are doing exactly that. And they can't be fooled by the idea that they're going to make billions of dollars as well. And they won't be swayed in any way by profit and or money. Because this is when we need to hold them accountable. Honestly. I agree. 00:44:04 Speaker 3: With that being said, I mean, I might slide into Lori Wayne's DMs. 00:44:08 Speaker 1: I mean, Ian will understand. Like, I might just... You up? What you doing, big head? 00:44:13 Speaker 2: You know, just to. 00:44:15 Speaker 1: Throw it on out there. 00:44:17 Speaker 4: Gus Curley talking about some honey potter. 00:44:22 Speaker 1: I know. 00:44:23 Speaker 2: No, let me stop. 00:44:25 Speaker 1: Oh, because I'm about to tell my business and tell some other business. Never mind. 00:44:30 Speaker 2: OK. OK. 00:44:32 Speaker 1: Last but not least on our agenda of things to discuss. Do we need to take a break, guys, or no? Yeah, we do. We do need to take a little break. OK. When we come back, what does it take to make a lot of money as a female athlete? What does it take to make a lot of money as a female athlete outside of your salary? So there was a podcast. There was a podcast. 00:45:08 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:45:10 Speaker 1: T.O. T.O. Chris Spencer. And Chris Spencer have a podcast. And the name of the podcast is called, what is it called? I said what I said or what? Oh, Get to the Point. Get to the Point. 00:45:19 Speaker 2: Get to the Point podcast. 00:45:20 Speaker 1: And they had WNBA player Angel McCautry, former WNBA player Angel McCautry on there. By the way, Angel is a colleague of ours, a friend of ours, a friendly, if you will. I want to make sure that that is known. We chatted with her before. I've had her on my pod. I don't know if you've had her on yours. 00:45:36 Speaker 3: I haven't, but we, you know, because we typically see Angel in most of the things that we're at. So, you know, I've been able to

talk to her quite frequently. 00:45:44 Speaker 1: And then for. 00:45:47 Speaker 3: A short period, she was going to actually rent my podcast studio to do a podcast that she was doing. 00:45:52 Speaker 4: So she came by to see the studio. 00:45:55 Speaker 3: Slang in that studio. Slang in that studio. So, yes, I would consider us to be friendly with Angel for sure. 00:46:02 Speaker 1: So this isn't about Angel for me, but this is what the story is. On the podcast, Angel was questioning who makes the money and why they make the money. And for her, she was making the point, at least from what I was able to see, that you have to look a certain way in order to make money or you have to be really, really talented and really, really popular and pretty. That would be the other side of it. And so to me, this is a debate as. 00:46:31 Speaker 2: Old as time. 00:46:32 Speaker 1: I am old enough to remember when we only talked about the top 10 hottest women in sports or the top 10 hottest this. 00:46:38 Speaker 2: They still do. 00:46:38 Speaker 1: You've made a few lists. You have made a few lists. I've made a few lists. We could still go to a list, right? Top 10 hottest athletes. And on what Chris Spencer goes, oh, I remember Anna Kournikova. didn't really win a slam. She was probably an average tennis player at best, but she was arguably one. 00:47:01 Speaker 2: Of the most popular tennis players. 00:47:03 Speaker 3: Oh, man, she looked dominating. Dominating in terms of marketing. 00:47:07 Speaker 1: Yeah, in terms of marketing. The conversation has been Serena versus Maria Sharapova. When Serena was in her early dominant years, because she was dominant most of her career, but in her early dominant years, when she was, I mean, belt to ass to Maria Sharapova, Maria Sharapova at the time was getting more marketing looks and talked about more because she fit that look. And that mainstream look usually is blonde and tall and tan, right? 00:47:34 Speaker 2: That was the look that people like. 00:47:36 Speaker 1: And so Angel brought up Sophie Cunningham about how popular she is and the marketing looks that she's getting. And she is a role player at best. And people still know her. The other day, you talked. 00:47:50 Speaker 3: About It was a it was a study that was done that showed that her. We'll find out exactly what the study was, but it essentially what it what it was determined was that Sophie Cunningham, the engagement with her accounts, social media, her social media accounts just completely dwarfs any other player in the WNBA and also at least 50 NBA players like she is. She gets millions of impressions, like a lot of engagement. Like her social media accounts have just exploded. And obviously her, I won't say her skill set, but her place in the game does not match the level of attention that she receives. 00:48:34 Speaker 2: Does it match the marketing dollars? 00:48:38 Speaker 1: Well, I mean, yeah. 00:48:39 Speaker 3: I mean, she's, they did, you know, there was a campaign with Adidas where she where she had a, I'm saying. 00:48:46 Speaker 2: Does it, is she worthy of the marketing dollars? 00:48:49 Speaker 3: I mean, based off what they, what usually is important to marketers, which is reach an audience. 00:48:54 Speaker 1: And she has, she has it. She has it. 00:48:56 Speaker 3: She has it by far. She has more than Caitlin Clark actually. And so I think, so you, I understand why, you know, why she's receiving the attention that she is from, you know, marketers and from, You know, like she got to be the ring girl for UFC. She's doing something now with NASCAR. She's in commercials, like all of these things. that are typically reserved for players who are more accomplished than she is. And I think that was kind of Angel's point is that if you're a woman athlete, you have to be good looking and good at your job. And in some cases, the looks can outweigh the performance. And you will get the type of attention that is usually reserved for, you know, A-level superstars. Whereas with the men, for the most part, I'm not saying that there's no examples. Otherwise, I'm struggling to think of an example of a man who was just gorgeous, but not really as talented as his peers, but got a bunch of marketing dollars. And I don't, I can't think in sports. 00:50:01 Speaker 1: I can't really... You can't think of a man who was just gorgeous and not talented. 00:50:06 Speaker 2: Let's think of this. 00:50:07 Speaker 3: Yeah, I was like, you know, somebody in the comments I'm sure will come up with somebody, but generally, the reason why you're struggling to think of it is because that just doesn't happen. Usually, all it requires for a male athlete is just be good at your job. And now, if you have some razzle, Pete said Jimmy, but see, Jimmy Garoppolo wasn't getting a bunch of deals. Jimmy Garoppolo, handsome man, but This would be like Jimmy Garoppolo getting the same opportunities as Tom Brady. 00:50:33 Speaker 4: Like that just wouldn't make sense. 00:50:35 Speaker 3: Now, if you are a good looking man and you're great and you have the appeal of likability, all those things, maybe you're a family man and that also is something that drives marketing interest, you will get more for sure. But it all starts with, are you good at your job? And for a lot of, female athletes, that's not the case. I mean, remember at college, was it the Cavender twins? Like good at basketball, gorgeous young ladies. They had 50-11 endorsements. I mean, and they stayed in college about 22 years because that, you know, NIL money was rolling, that kind of thing. But they were never considered WNBA level talent, if you will. And so, you know, that's the thing is that, yeah, I don't think that that's necessarily an outrageous or controversial point to say that, yes, in most cases, in many cases, women have to be great and look good or you have to be so great that they can't really deny you. You know, like Simone Biles, obviously,

she's a gorgeous woman, but she's so great at what she does that she was going to get some marketing dollars for sure. But I'm struggling to think of a male version of Anna Kournikova. 00:51:56 Speaker 2: That's a great question. And I'm sitting here and I'm like, there has to be. 00:51:58 Speaker 3: I mean, OK, like David Beckham. But David Beckham was actually good. 00:52:03 Speaker 1: He was good. 00:52:04 Speaker 3: But David Beckham, clearly, like he was no attractive looking guy, you know, that kind of thing. 00:52:09 Speaker 4: And so, Pete, you reach and you say Sam Hartman. 00:52:12 Speaker 1: I'm like, who? I need a household name. 00:52:15 Speaker 3: Sam Hartman, he played for Notre Dame, quarterback, attractive guy, whatever. But like nobody, they didn't make him a household name. You know, I can really talk about the fridge. I'm like, but the fridge still had to be good at his job. But then he became a different name and a marketer's dream for different reasons. 00:52:34 Speaker 1: Yeah, he was. 00:52:35 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:52:36 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't because the fridge was hot. Super Bowl shuffle. 00:52:39 Speaker 2: Knock it off. Yeah. 00:52:42 Speaker 4: So, guys, you're not helping. You're not helping your species right now. 00:52:45 Speaker 1: You're not helping your type. You're not helping the gender wars here. 00:52:50 Speaker 3: Because you would be struggling to think of somebody where that's the case. And it's still that way when you, you know, because the reality is that considering. 00:53:00 Speaker 1: What's my man that. 00:53:01 Speaker 2: I got a crush on? I can't think of his name. Xavier Leguette. 00:53:04 Speaker 1: Like, he's good at what he does, though. 00:53:06 Speaker 2: Like, he's still good. 00:53:07 Speaker 4: But he's also not getting a ton of marketing. 00:53:10 Speaker 1: No, he's not. But he's getting some. He's getting more than... Like, for a team that's kind of average and just barely doing well, like, you know him. 00:53:18 Speaker 2: Like, he is known for that. Right. 00:53:21 Speaker 1: Or even. OK, let's. But he's good at what he does. Yeah. 00:53:24 Speaker 3: The Nigerian soccer player, the one that's been palling around with Cardi B. 00:53:28 Speaker 1: Is he good? Is he good at what he does? 00:53:30 Speaker 4: I don't know. 00:53:30 Speaker 1: He's so beautiful. That's a perfect example. I don't know what he does. But is he getting. 00:53:34 Speaker 4: He got social media. 00:53:35 Speaker 1: I know he's a Nigerian. I know he's a Nigerian soccer player. Is that team that great? Is that national team that great? 00:53:41 Speaker 4: I like to think if you make the national team, you got to be good. 00:53:44 Speaker 2: Well, not really. The Nigerian national team, how competitive is it? 00:53:47 Speaker 1: I don't know. Somebody school me. I don't know. You're just shading him all over the place. I don't know because he's so beautiful. That's a perfect point. What is my man's name and where does he play when he's not with the national team? 00:53:57 Speaker 3: But it's not like we see him, okay, if he were going to become, like if he got the same level of attention that Sophie Cunningham received, then you would see this man on Gatorade commercials. Like you would see him everywhere and you don't. You know him mostly because Cardi B clocked it. And everybody's like, oh, what's going on? And people saw that entire team, which a lot of them are very good looking on this team. 00:54:20 Speaker 1: And people noted that. But it's not. 00:54:22 Speaker 3: They're getting social media pop. But it's not like, you know, brands are running to them. 00:54:27 Speaker 1: Bring back the World Cup. 00:54:28 Speaker 2: Woo, that was a good time. 00:54:29 Speaker 4: See, Carrie, we got to keep you focused. 00:54:30 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. 00:54:31 Speaker 2: I don't know what you're talking about. 00:54:32 Speaker 1: We'll bring back. 00:54:33 Speaker 2: The World Cup. 00:54:33 Speaker 3: But generally speaking, it just doesn't work that way, you know, for women. Because unfortunately, I mean, it's great that there are men who support women's sports and who watch women's sports. But there's so much more men who probably watch women's sports compared to women. And so the marketers are trained on the male gaze. 00:54:52 Speaker 1: That's why. Wait, wait. 00:54:54 Speaker 4: I was going to really talk about you. He can't be that great. 00:54:57 Speaker 2: He's proving my point. 00:54:57 Speaker 4: Because of the division he plays in. 00:54:59 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:55:00 Speaker 3: I'm not going to sit up here and act like I am a soccer expert. I cannot speak to his level of skill and ability. I just know the man looks good. 00:55:09 Speaker 1: That's what I know. But to your point, if he, if this was, the roles were reversed, meaning if he was a woman, he might have a little more attention. 00:55:18 Speaker 4: Oh, man, if he were a woman and had that level of. 00:55:20 Speaker 2: He would be, like, worldwide. 00:55:21 Speaker 1: He would, yeah, we would know exactly what he does. 00:55:24 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, you're right, you're right. 00:55:25 Speaker 1: He would be everywhere. 00:55:26 Speaker 2: Ooh, he broke the internet. 00:55:30 Speaker 4: See, Carrie's mind is going to mush now that I. 00:55:33 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was like, I don't know what you're talking about. What are we doing? I don't know what this is. 00:55:35 Speaker 4: Maduka Okoye? 00:55:36 Speaker 2: Is that his name? 00:55:37 Speaker 1: Uh-huh. No, and he speaks several languages. People got on me because I said I didn't want him to talk. And they were like, Carrie speaks several languages. I'm like, well, that's no big deal. 00:55:45 Speaker 2: You live in Europe. Everybody speaks several languages. 00:55:48 Speaker 3: Oh, and Coscarelli got the full rundown. He said he's actually German. But he plays for Nigeria internationally. 00:55:57 Speaker 1: Which means,

according to Coscarelli, another bad sign. He's not that great. That's what Coscarelli is saying. Oh, he was born in Dusseldorf. 00:56:03 Speaker 4: I've been to Dusseldorf. 00:56:04 Speaker 1: He's playing with, yeah, he's playing with, it's like, never mind, let me stop because that's what we mean. But the point of the matter is he's not that great. You said he was great. What are you trying to tell you? 00:56:14 Speaker 3: I'm just assuming he made a national team. Perhaps he's, he's not bad, obviously. 00:56:21 Speaker 1: What grade would you give him? 00:56:22 Speaker 2: He's probably... C-plus. You're talking about a C-plus? Okay. 00:56:26 Speaker 1: No, I'm talking about his skill set. 00:56:29 Speaker 2: Yeah, by series A. 00:56:31 Speaker 4: He said a looks A-plus. 00:56:32 Speaker 1: I know he's not talking about his skill set, though. Yeah. 00:56:35 Speaker 3: Yes, I mean, I'm not saying that if he were playing for England, he's probably. 00:56:39 Speaker 4: Oh, he said B-minus. 00:56:40 Speaker 1: B-minus is not... Same thing. 00:56:42 Speaker 4: B-minus is not bad. 00:56:43 Speaker 1: Not bad at all. 00:56:44 Speaker 3: But the point, nevertheless, of our... conversation was that uh yeah it. 00:56:50 Speaker 1: Is well and then angel got a little heat because they tried to say she inferred that caitlyn clark was ugly i didn't take it that way i think that was a bit of a i i think it was a bit of a setup um i think chris spencer was just you know just egging something on but it's a very you know you can't have any conversation at all you know that you know the rules there you know that conversation can't be had at all in any any real way if you say anything that hints around to caitlyn clark um But the bigger issue, what we were trying to say is that you do have to. It's unfair, but it is what it is. Like, you have to be really, really attractive, even if you're a role player. You have to be really attractive to get these big deals, I think, because that's what they're looking for. 00:57:32 Speaker 2: That's what people are attracted to. 00:57:34 Speaker 1: That's why she has all of those looks on her when it comes to social media. Like, she... Her social media engagement is the highest. And they did a list. I don't know. We shouldn't find the study. It's because she is beautiful because people love looking at her. Like, it's just that simple. Like, there's nothing wrong with saying that if when it's stated to obvious beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I'm just saying that is one of the reasons why she fits the mold of a Anna Kournikova or Maria Sharapova at the time. And those were the ladies who have traditionally got the marketing dollars when they look a certain type of way. And this is new. And by the way, I can go down a list of gorgeous women in the WNBA who aren't getting the same marketing attention. 00:58:12 Speaker 4: I mean, look at Rekia Jackson. Rekia Jackson is gorgeous. 00:58:16 Speaker 1: Stunning. Stunning. Dejanette Carrington. 00:58:19 Speaker 2: Stunning. 00:58:20 Speaker 3: I mean, dimes every day of the week, but they're not going to, I mean, and I would argue that they are both more skilled players than Sophie Cunningham, because that's the other layer of this too, is that there is obviously a racial element as well. You mentioned this with Maria Sharapova and Serena Williams. I remember at the time, and you could correct me if I'm wrong, that what was also very noticeable about the difference in engagement with marketers is that all these high-end brands Luxury brands wanted Sharapova. 00:58:53 Speaker 2: The luxury brands, yeah. 00:58:54 Speaker 1: The luxury brands, you know, the Mercedes. They did finally come around to Serena because, again, like I said, she was pretty much dominant her entire career. 00:59:01 Speaker 2: She was so good, you couldn't deny her. 00:59:03 Speaker 1: Right. She had to be the GOAT to get that. 00:59:05 Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? 00:59:07 Speaker 3: She had to be the GOAT to get Rolex interested and all of these, where that was just a possibility with Sheriff Hover from the beginning. So there's an extra barrier that Black women, especially in a league like the WNBA, where it's 70% Black, you have a high percentage of queer players, it's going to be even more difficult for them to gain and garner the same amount of interest. That's why you got to look at Angel Reese as being like a marketing whiz. 00:59:36 Speaker 1: I mean. Right away. 00:59:38 Speaker 2: Right away. 00:59:39 Speaker 1: The best thing that she could have ever done was beat herself in that game, in that college game where she pointed her finger. All of that bad energy turned into good because she was able to turn it around. I mean, studies, there should be studies. And I also want to give you one other opportunity, too. 00:59:53 Speaker 2: You want to apologize to her again on this pod? 00:59:55 Speaker 1: Again? 00:59:55 Speaker 2: How many times do I got to apologize? Okay, well, it's fine. You already did your last part. 00:59:59 Speaker 1: Listen, we got a limit. 01:00:00 Speaker 3: I'm a Sagittarius, man. We got maybe one and a half apologies in us, and that's it. 01:00:05 Speaker 2: You owe me an apology. 01:00:06 Speaker 1: What do I owe you an apology for? For many things. 01:00:08 Speaker 2: I just don't want to get into it right now. For many things. 01:00:11 Speaker 4: That's why I followed you. That's exactly why. 01:00:16 Speaker 1: Your bad attitude. Kelsey Watch continues. Correct. Kelsey Watch continues on Flagrant and Funny. You guys, if you guys comment, if you know where she's going, if you heard anything, if you've seen her around. 01:00:26 Speaker 2: Yes, give us the tea. 01:00:27 Speaker 1: Give us the tea that you know. We need some inside information. We want video evidence as well or some type of photos. We're going to do this again when, Jamel? When do we come back? 01:00:37 Speaker 3: We're going to do this again, I believe, on Friday because I'm celebrating my wedding anniversary this week. 01:00:43 Speaker 1: Congratulations. Thank you. 01:00:45 Speaker 3: Seven years in. Seven years of wonderful wedding bliss. They say that's when it's awful. They say seven years in is when you're ready to quit. and walk away. 01:00:55 Speaker 2: And he was with Duka, the guy, the Nigerian soccer player. 01:01:01 Speaker 1: Y'all ain't about to Ayesha Curry me on here. I know that much. Ain't about to do me that way. All right. Thank y'all for listening to Flagrant and Funny. Everyone wish Jamel and Ian a happy anniversary. Love you so much, friend. 01:01:13 Speaker 2: I'll see you on Friday. 01:01:14 Speaker 1: Flagrant and Funny is an iHeart Women's Sports production. Producers are Michael Coscarelli and Buffy Gorilla. Our editor is Michael Coscarelli. Our executive producer is Jesse Katz. And this show is hosted by us, Jamel Hill and Gary Champion.