Jakson When God Does a Full Circle Thing - Brad White täydellinen litterointi

00:04:39.040 And uh and Jeff and Diane, your mom and dad, invite us to go out to lunch. 00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:46.959 I have two sons that are almost the same exact age as Pastor Jeff's two sons, Jared and Brad. 00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:55.839 And so we went out to eat, and I looked down at the end of the table, and Jared and Josh were leaning across the table, just talking nonstop to each other. 00:04:56.079 --> 00:05:01.439 And Brad and Jacob were leaning across the table, just talking non-stop to each other. 00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:05.199 And at that moment, Brad, I said, This is the church where we're gonna go. 00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:07.680 And we stayed there almost as long as you did. 00:05:07.759 --> 00:05:10.000 You all left about the time that the that we left. 00:05:10.079 --> 00:05:14.000 So yeah, that was the beginning of uh a really beautiful friendship. 00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:14.879 Yeah, honestly. 00:05:14.959 --> 00:05:20.480 And also, it was also good as a PK when someone new showed up because you knew you were gonna get to go out for lunch. 00:05:20.720 --> 00:05:23.439 And obviously, Dad really liked y'all because typically we were O. 00:05:23.600 --> 00:05:23.920 Charlie's. 00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:24.639 That was kind of the same. 00:05:24.720 --> 00:05:25.040 Oh, yeah. 00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:25.759 No, this was fancy. 00:05:25.839 --> 00:05:26.399 This is part of the city. 00:05:26.560 --> 00:05:27.439 He took you to the Parthenon. 00:05:27.519 --> 00:05:30.959 Yeah, that was I mean, he knew something special was gonna happen, I think. 00:05:31.279 --> 00:05:35.519 Well, we looked far more impressive back then than we do now, so it that wouldn't happen now. 00:05:35.600 --> 00:05:37.680 So you know, I have a memory I'd like to share if that's okay. 00:05:37.839 --> 00:05:38.160 Okay, yeah. 00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:41.360 So I remember Jacob and I, again, fast friends, uh-huh. 00:05:41.519 --> 00:05:44.160 He tells me, Hey, my dad has let me buy paintball guns. 00:05:44.240 --> 00:05:44.480 Uh-huh. 00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:47.839 And as a sixth grade boy, like, this is the most exciting news I've ever heard. 00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:50.319 And he says, We want you to come over and play paintball. 00:05:50.480 --> 00:05:54.959 And so, Pastor Chris, the youth pastor, and myself, we come over and we're gonna play paintball. 00:05:55.120 --> 00:06:01.759 We walk in, and the way that my memory brings it up, you're eating a sandwich, uh-huh, and you had given, and I heard these explicit directions. 00:06:01.920 --> 00:06:05.199 You said to Jacob, do not touch the paintball guns. 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:09.759 Of course, Jacob being a sixth grade boy, is eager to show me how these things work. 00:06:09.839 --> 00:06:12.240 And he ends up somehow firing the paintball gun. 00:06:12.319 --> 00:06:15.600 It hits your ceiling, and then paint drips on your sandwich. 00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:19.120 Yes, that's pretty vivid in my memory, too. 00:06:19.279 --> 00:06:24.079 And I think, I think to this day, Jacob shudders just a little bit at the mention of paintballs. 00:06:24.319 --> 00:06:25.040 That's a special story. 00:06:25.199 --> 00:06:26.399 That's funny, that's neat. 00:06:26.639 --> 00:06:34.720 Your mom and I, your mom and dad and I became and remained very, very close friends, and we have done things together over the years. 00:06:34.959 --> 00:06:38.800 Uh probably just because of of age difference. 00:06:38.959 --> 00:06:46.240 I haven't kept up with Jared as much, I haven't kept up with you as much, but your mom and dad are still very close to us, still very um important to us. 00:06:46.319 --> 00:06:49.759 And so you're right, that started a family relationship. 00:06:49.920 --> 00:07:00.879 That I hope, in all honesty, I hope that our that our children continue that you have a chance to I hope uh my grandchildren have a chance to shoot paintball guns in your house. 00:07:00.959 --> 00:07:02.959 And I'd rather than not do that. 00:07:03.839 --> 00:07:04.639 That's neat. 00:07:04.959 --> 00:07:06.639 So let's let's pick up from there. 00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:09.120 Yeah thanks for thanks for bringing us back that. 00:07:09.199 --> 00:07:10.639 Let's let's pick up from there. 00:07:11.360 --> 00:07:25.439 God God was at work even then, even with with I I think I think when we started this with third grade kids eating across from each other, and then sixth grade kids at the table, and God was at work even then. 00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:28.319 Where did God take you in that in that journey? 00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:31.199 Did you you're obviously a great pastor now? 00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:32.319 Is that where you were headed? 00:07:32.480 --> 00:07:33.839 Did you know that's what you were gonna do? 00:07:34.079 --> 00:07:36.319 You know, it's it's it's such an interesting story. 00:07:36.480 --> 00:07:46.800 I was uh obviously just ingrained in the church, and I accepted Christ when I was young, and I felt called clearly by God when I was I think I was a sophomore in high school. 00:07:47.279 --> 00:07:58.319 I I felt a a call to vocational ministry all my life, and I think as most 16-year-old boys who kind of feel that prompting, I was like, Well, I guess that means I'm gonna be a a youth pastor. 00:07:58.560 --> 00:07:58.639 Yeah. 00:07:58.959 --> 00:08:09.439 And so yeah, and so I graduated from Riverdale High School and packed up and went to Anderson University with the the plan of becoming a youth pastor. 00:08:09.759 --> 00:08:14.879 And there's a whole lot of circumstances that came together that kind of ended that. 00:08:15.199 --> 00:08:21.040 Um one was I was kind of living in this duality because I was dealing with some addiction, which I think we're gonna get into later. 00:08:21.199 --> 00:08:31.279 And then two was I think I just wasn't uh spiritually mature, maybe even just mature enough in general to sit in some of those pre-seminary classes. 00:08:31.519 -->

00:08:40.080 And so I ended up leaving um Anderson and and came to MTSU and so I decided, well, I guess ministry is not for me. 00:08:40.480 --> 00:08:46.159 Went and got a degree in recreation business, and one thing kind of led to another, and I ended up with the YMCA of Middle Tennessee. 00:08:46.639 --> 00:08:46.799 Yeah. 00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:51.519 I yeah, I remember you working for the YMCA and did a and did a great job and progressed with them. 00:08:51.759 --> 00:09:10.799 Let me let me back up just a step though, and say it, you know, I've seen so many uh preachers' kids who do that, who go to a church school or Christian college, and then kind of maybe have that awareness of I'm not I'm not as spiritually mature as I f as I thought uh was. 00:09:11.360 --> 00:09:18.720 And I wonder if Brad, I wonder if it's sometimes we just assume so much about preacher's kids. 00:09:18.879 --> 00:09:39.519 Well, he's a preacher's kid, he's he's right with God, he you know, he can he knows the Pentateuch, he's right, you know, he we we put so much on them and assume so much, and then they feel obligated to take that on that when all of a sudden they're they're in some place where they're forced to actually live out that faith, it hasn't been their faith at all. 00:09:39.759 --> 00:09:44.639 It's been this kind of ascribed faith from parishioners or even from parents. 00:09:44.799 --> 00:09:47.279 Do you think I agree wholeheartedly? 00:09:47.360 --> 00:09:57.120 I think that there's an expectation on preachers' kids that you're either going to be dealing drugs or you're gonna be the next senior pastor of your father's church that it is in the middle ground. 00:09:57.440 --> 00:09:57.600 Right. 00:09:57.840 --> 00:10:03.840 And so I think that's goes back to part of the one of the reasons that we connected so well with your family because you knew we Jared and I are just kids. 00:10:04.000 --> 00:10:04.159 Yeah. 00:10:04.399 --> 00:10:04.879 We're just kids. 00:10:05.039 --> 00:10:09.200 You didn't put those expectations on us, and we definitely dealt with that. 00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:24.559 I mean, I remember families, there was one family in particular that I remember left the church because me and their son got into a fist fight in the basketball gym, and it was like the preacher's son, you know, got into a fight with my kids, so they they left the church, and that expectation is is definitely real, right? 00:10:24.720 --> 00:10:37.440 And uh, it's something that now having my own kids, I want to be really aware of that that my kids don't sense that because you can you can begin to kind of develop some even disdain for the church in some regards when you're when you grow up in it. 00:10:37.919 --> 00:10:38.879 Yeah, that's good. 00:10:39.120 --> 00:10:44.799 And and it does seem like that maybe that has that's relaxed a little bit. 00:10:44.960 --> 00:10:48.639 Maybe we've learned some of our lessons and don't and don't force that on quite as much.

00:10:48.879 --> 00:10:56.879 So you you you go into the uh parks and recreation field, you're working at the YMCA, doing a great job. 00:10:56.960 --> 00:10:59.759 You were a uh, among other things, you are lifeguard. 00:10:59.919 --> 00:11:04.720 I was, and and that was really where I got my you know kind of start within the YMCA. 00:11:04.799 --> 00:11:07.279 I I had always worked in city aquatics. 00:11:07.360 --> 00:11:07.679 Uh-huh. 00:11:07.919 --> 00:11:18.639 I was finishing my senior year recreation business, and there was a girl that was in one of my classes, and she worked for the YMCA that's in Smyrna, Tennessee, and she said, Hey, we have an opening for our lead aquatics position. 00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:21.039 You should consider uh applying for it. 00:11:21.120 --> 00:11:25.519 And so I did, and to be honest, I didn't think there was any chance they were they were gonna give me this job. 00:11:25.600 --> 00:11:28.000 And so I went in there, I'm cutting up with all the people. 00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:33.039 This one guy in particular, he and I just really hit it off and we're kind of making jokes during the interview. 00:11:33.200 --> 00:11:35.360 Come to find out he was the senior vice president. 00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:36.799 I I had no idea. 00:11:36.960 --> 00:11:42.320 And so he loved me, and so I was very when when they this is true, they called and offered me the job. 00:11:42.399 --> 00:11:45.200 I said, Do you sh you have the right person on the phone? 00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:46.320 This is Brad White. 00:11:46.399 --> 00:11:49.360 I just want to make sure that he said, Absolutely, man, we're excited about you coming in. 00:11:49.519 --> 00:12:04.720 So I came in and and got to kind of jump in and my first real role of major leadership, and I learned a ton and had a great um support staff underneath me, and I had great leadership above me, and I was really grateful for Gary Cobb was his name. 00:12:04.879 --> 00:12:11.039 Gary became a mentor and a and a great friend, and he just poured into me and he kept giving me opportunities to grow. 00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:17.279 And uh eventually there was a tragedy that took place in one of the Ys in Nashville where a young boy drowned. 00:12:17.840 --> 00:12:24.799 And when that young boy drowned, it really changed the trajectory of my career because aquatics became this spotlight. 00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:29.519 They wanted to see who kind of had their ducks in a row, who had been doing the things that we were supposed to be doing. 00:12:29.679 --> 00:12:36.000 And um, there was a small group of us that were doing the right things, and so we switched over companies that were doing the certifications. 00:12:36.080 --> 00:12:43.440 This new company came in and I excelled um in that because of my background in swimming and just being involved in aquatics really my whole life. 00:12:43.679 --> 00:12:55.200 I ended up being hired by that company as well, and so I started teaching all over the country for Disneys and Six Flags and Dollywood and getting to teach at some some pretty big arenas for the aquatics world. 00:12:55.279 --> 00:13:01.360 And at the same time, the COO of the Middle Tennessee YMCAs who was in Nashville, his name is Mike Hellbron. 00:13:01.600 --> 00:13:03.440 He's retired now, amazing guy. 00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:07.519 He, for whatever reason, took me under his wing and he said, Hey, I want to mentor you. 00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:09.279 And so I started being mentored by Mike. 00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:14.879 Eventually, they moved me to the downtown Y and they put me in an operations role where I was essentially the vice principal. 00:13:14.960 --> 00:13:21.200 Uh got to deal with uh all the all the troublemakers in the building and and people who were upset about different things. 00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:30.879 But that was a sweet season because the the guy that was my direct supervisor, Kenny Alonzo, he's now the CEO of Rocket Town, downtown Nashville, Michael W. 00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:31.200 Smith. 00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:32.159 Oh, is that right? 00:13:32.240 --> 00:13:33.279 Yeah, I didn't know that. 00:13:33.679 --> 00:13:37.120 Incredible, incredible man of God, ordained minister. 00:13:37.200 --> 00:13:40.639 And so he and I would talk life, faith, and and leadership. 00:13:40.799 --> 00:13:42.960 And he just poured so much into me. 00:13:43.039 --> 00:13:50.399 And so I was just growing and learning, and really at that point had decided I'm gonna be uh Urban 30 group COO of a YMCA. 00:13:50.480 --> 00:13:52.720 I want to run one of these larger Ys one day. 00:13:52.879 --> 00:14:04.559 And so that was that was kind of where my my story in my mind started to to take a little bit of a shift from a a point where I ended up in the church because I was convinced this this YMCA thing is is where we're going. 00:14:04.639 --> 00:14:16.720 And yeah, long story short, I had some incredible opportunities and um God, through sweet Holly, my wife, made it abundantly clear that I wasn't supposed to take either one of these jobs, and eight months later I ended up at the church. 00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:17.440 Yeah. 00:14:17.919 --> 00:14:18.799 Isn't that neat? 00:14:18.879 --> 00:14:24.399 And we're gonna talk about how you kind of had to start down that path in order to go down this path. 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:27.919 But so you and Holly were married by that time. 00:14:28.799 --> 00:14:32.639 Yeah, we were we had gotten married in 2008. 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:35.279 We had an incredible premarital counseling. 00:14:35.440 --> 00:14:35.840 Uh-huh. 00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:38.000 If you remember, you you did our premarital counseling. 00:14:38.240 --> 00:14:38.559 Absolutely. 00:14:38.720 --> 00:14:41.279 I still one of the few that worked, so that's good. 00:14:41.519 --> 00:14:42.559 Yeah, we're doing great. 00:14:42.720 --> 00:14:53.519 Um and and during that season of of getting married, there was this kind of

underlying hidden sin of pornography addiction that really plays into the whole story. 00:14:53.600 --> 00:15:04.080 Um, where I was kind of walking in this secret sin, and eventually I came to the place of, man, the Lord just let me feel the conviction from it, and and I wanted freedom from it. 00:15:04.320 --> 00:15:17.679 And um I went forward at church one day and and asked to be prayed over and worked through some deep rooted issues that were that were there that I hadn't dealt with and um began to serve in the church in a different capacity. 00:15:17.759 --> 00:15:24.240 And that was the point I would say I was saved when I was seven, but I would say that my sanctification process started when I was 22. 00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:24.559 Yeah. 00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:31.039 And so I began to just serve the Lord and seek the Lord, and I felt the Lord telling me, hey, something's about to change. 00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:31.279 Right. 00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:34.960 And when these two YMCA jobs came up, I thought, well, this is it, right? 00:15:35.039 --> 00:15:41.120 Because this lines up with everything I've been learning and how I've been almost groomed to take one of these higher level positions. 00:15:41.360 --> 00:15:45.519 And sweet Holly, uh, you know, she's just kind of along for the ride. 00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:46.879 I hadn't really sought her input. 00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:52.159 I'm just like, this is my dream and this is what I want to accomplish, and and you're kind of along for the ride. 00:15:52.320 --> 00:15:54.240 And Pastor Brady called me. 00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:59.360 I was not working for the church, and he said, Listen, I I've heard that you're potentially moving. 00:15:59.440 --> 00:16:00.559 And I said, Yeah, we are. 00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:03.919 He said, I just couldn't let you leave without telling you your name comes up here all the time. 00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:05.759 And I was like, Wow, what is that? 00:16:05.840 --> 00:16:06.559 What does that even mean? 00:16:06.639 --> 00:16:07.200 Is there a job? 00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:09.440 He said, I don't have a job to offer you, I just had to tell you that. 00:16:09.519 --> 00:16:11.440 And so yeah, I got back from that meeting in Holly. 00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:13.120 He said, What did what did Pastor Brady want? 00:16:13.200 --> 00:16:14.559 I said, He just wanted to pray for us. 00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:17.120 I didn't tell her any of the other stuff. 00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:23.039 And so we had gone to North Carolina, had gotten offered the position, went down to Alabama, had been offered the position. 00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:27.840 We're sitting at Bonefish Grill, and I said to her, Where are we going? 00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:32.879 And she looked at me and she started crying and she said, When are you gonna stop fighting the call of ministry on your life? 00:16:33.039 --> 00:16:33.279 Wow. 00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:34.799 And I was like, Ugh. 00:16:34.960 --> 00:16:35.120 Yeah. 00:16:35.279 --> 00:16:36.320 Why'd you have to say that? 00:16:36.399 --> 00:16:38.000 You know, like my everything was going so good. 00:16:38.240 --> 00:16:42.559 Because the job in North Carolina came with a house, it came with a car and management of a golf course. 00:16:42.639 --> 00:16:43.679 I was like, this is sweet. 00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:48.320 You know, it's everything that I could have written down on a on a board for kind of my dreams and visions. 00:16:48.639 --> 00:16:54.399 And so something inside of my spirit, probably the Holy Spirit, when she said that, just resonated so deep in me. 00:16:54.480 --> 00:16:55.679 And I knew she was right. 00:16:55.840 --> 00:17:03.279 And I turned both of those jobs down, and then eight months later, uh, just sitting and waiting and waiting on the Lord, I felt abandoned, honestly, by the Lord. 00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:05.039 Like you forgot, you forgot about me. 00:17:05.200 --> 00:17:05.359 Yeah. 00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:10.400 Um, the church called me and they initially brought me in to run guest services and kind of operational stuff. 00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:15.440 So I was helping with safety and security and moving people and some logistical type things. 00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:19.519 And um, so did that for it was about a year and a half, two years. 00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:21.279 We opened our Buchanan campus. 00:17:21.519 --> 00:17:23.680 The men's pastor became the campus pastor. 00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:28.640 Pastor Brady said, Hey, can you just kind of oversee men's ministry, just handle the logistics? 00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:34.799 So there was one week that I couldn't find any of the pastors to speak, and he said, Well, I guess I guess you're gonna speak. 00:17:34.880 --> 00:17:38.000 I was like, I don't speak, and he said, No, you're going to this week. 00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:42.400 And so I gave that first sermon I ever gave to an empty room 35 times. 00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:43.119 Is that right? 00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:43.680 35 times. 00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:48.000 I I mean I had it memorized absolutely cold. 00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:55.920 So he called me into his office the next week after the the message, and he said, Hey, I had your message recorded, and I thought, well, this is it, time to pack the bags. 00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:57.039 I'm I'm out of here. 00:17:57.119 --> 00:18:03.759 And he said, You know, I've been watching you work for the past year and a half, and I listened to your message, and he said, I think God's calling you into pastoral ministry. 00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:04.559 That's neat. 00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:08.960 And so we began the process of ordination, and from there, uh, I got to go through ordination. 00:18:09.039 --> 00:18:12.799 They invited my dad to come, which was one of the sweetest, one of the sweetest things. 00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:15.359 He was in there when when they uh ordained me. 00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:17.599 Your dad by this time had moved to Kentucky.

00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:19.200 He's pastoring in Kentucky. 00:18:19.359 --> 00:18:24.960 Yeah, he's in Kentucky, and um they they gave me the chance to go and and do some school after that. 00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:29.440 And so um kind of the rest has been just a journey of what does God want to do? 00:18:29.599 --> 00:18:31.440 People ask me often, like, what are you gonna do next? 00:18:31.519 --> 00:18:32.000 What do you want to do? 00:18:32.079 --> 00:18:33.440 I'm like, I didn't plan to do this. 00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:38.240 When I was trying to plan my life out, it didn't work out, and so I've given up on making any plans for my future. 00:18:38.319 --> 00:18:41.039 I'm just hanging out, and if God says do this, then I'll do it. 00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:41.759 That's neat. 00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:42.400 That's neat. 00:18:42.559 --> 00:18:45.359 Well, you know, I started with that quote that I love from T. 00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:45.519 S. 00:18:45.680 --> 00:18:48.880 Elliott about returning home for the very first time. 00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:56.720 And there's so many times in your story that I see you walk into a place and you're and you're home. 00:18:56.880 --> 00:18:57.920 You're finally home. 00:18:58.079 --> 00:19:00.319 It just happens to be the first time you've ever been there. 00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:02.480 And so God was preparing you all along. 00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:03.200 That's neat. 00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:15.599 It's also neat that he uses, it's important for us to hear, he uses our spouses, most of the time our wives, yeah, to be much more in tune and much smarter than we are. 00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:24.400 And there's been lots of times where Doris has either protected me from some really bad decision or pointed me to some really good decision that I had no idea about. 00:19:24.480 --> 00:19:25.920 So I agree wholeheartedly with that. 00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:26.640 That's great. 00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:27.039 Yeah. 00:19:27.279 --> 00:19:31.279 So now you serve as men's ministry, associate pastor. 00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:32.720 What do you kind of do? 00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:33.920 What's your main role? 00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:36.000 So two main job titles. 00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:39.440 Men's ministry is really overseeing all of our men's groups. 00:19:39.519 --> 00:19:41.680 We have 56 different men's groups that meet throughout the week. 00:19:41.839 --> 00:19:48.480 We have a Tuesday group, we have Wednesday mornings at 6 a.m., Wednesday nights at 6 p.m., and then we have some Sunday groups. 00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:56.799 So the bulk of my week during the semester is I'm teaching, and then the groups will break off into smaller groups and they'll talk through the text that we're working through. 00:19:56.960 --> 00:19:58.480 And so I just get to love on leaders. 00:19:58.559 --> 00:20:00.240 I have a kind of a core leadership group. 00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:00.480 Yeah. 00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:08.160 I spend my time with them, and then they spend their time with the the direct leaders underneath who spend time with all the men who are in men's ministry. 00:20:08.319 --> 00:20:13.759 So this past year we had uh over 1,100 individual guys come through Ann's ministry at some point. 00:20:13.839 --> 00:20:17.680 So it's a really exciting ministry to get to be a part of for sure. 00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:20.880 And I love that core value of challenging men. 00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:30.559 Uh I'm, you know, I'm no, I don't mean to be sexist, no offense to women, but but great churches are only made great if they have great men in them, if they really reach their men. 00:20:31.119 --> 00:20:39.279 And we are so serious about that because what we've seen statistically speaking is that if you are able to uh get the man, the family's gonna follow. 00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:48.240 If a man comes to faith in Christ, I think it's a 97% chance that the rest of the family's gonna fall on that decision, where with the woman it's 73%, and with a child, it's 36%. 00:20:48.799 --> 00:20:52.000 So I think the most important work that we can do is to pursue the heart of men. 00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:52.559 It's hard. 00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:53.759 Yeah, it's challenging. 00:20:53.920 --> 00:20:58.480 Uh with women's ministry, I joke that you could say, hey, we're just gonna gather together and we're gonna sing kumbaya. 00:20:58.880 --> 00:20:58.960 Yeah. 00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:01.599 And you're gonna have a thousand women show up with men's ministry. 00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:06.000 I mean, you could have evil can evil come in and do all sorts of stuff, and you're gonna have 12 guys. 00:21:06.160 --> 00:21:06.319 Right. 00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:07.920 It's just harder, it's just harder work. 00:21:08.079 --> 00:21:09.359 So that's one side of my job. 00:21:09.519 --> 00:21:14.720 The other side of my job is the associate pastor side, which is really just coming alongside Pastor Brady and helping him. 00:21:14.799 --> 00:21:17.839 So I oversee the weddings and the funerals that come through the building. 00:21:17.920 --> 00:21:20.640 I get to help with a lot of premarital counseling, which I I love that. 00:21:20.720 --> 00:21:21.440 It's so much fun. 00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:28.240 We have a um a different service that meets at 9:40 called the gathering at 940, and I'm in that service each week. 00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:33.039 And then I have the chance to work on our sermon writing team, and so I work on kind of where we're going as a church. 00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:39.119 And once a blue moon, probably four or five times a year, I get the chance to speak on Sunday mornings when Pastor Brady and Pastor David are out. 00:21:39.200 --> 00:21:41.359 So I love those those opportunities when they come. 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:45.119 That is such a great story, Brad. 00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:48.240 And you know, a lot of it I know, but a lot of it I didn't know. 00:21:48.319 --> 00:21:51.839 And so it's fun to kind of

hear how God was directing you. 00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:59.759 And I do, I don't want to be an I told you so kind of person, but I will say when you were in the when you were in the third, fourth, fifth. 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:02.319 Sixth, seventh grade, and we were watching you grow up. 00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:06.799 We were some of those who stood in the background and said, He's gonna be a minister someday. 00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:08.640 He's gonna he's gonna be in the ministry. 00:22:08.720 --> 00:22:13.920 So, so I'm grateful for your time in the YMCA, but we all knew that was not gonna last. 00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:15.759 We knew God was taking you someplace else. 00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:16.720 So that's neat. 00:22:16.880 --> 00:22:17.839 That's good. 00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:22.079 And and I don't have to tell you this, but what a great church. 00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:23.200 I mean, New Vision. 00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:27.839 I I uh well, I'm gonna tell a quick little story. 00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:39.680 My my parents, my mother and stepfather, my parents divorced, but my mother and stepfather attended that church, and they were little old non-contributing people. 00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:43.680 I mean, they didn't have anything to offer, probably a pain in the neck. 00:22:43.759 --> 00:22:50.480 I you and I both have pastored people that, you know, when you see the little lady walking up on Sunday morning thinking, oh brother, here we go again. 00:22:50.559 --> 00:22:51.839 Well, that was my mom. 00:22:52.000 --> 00:23:01.680 But you know, she got sick while she was attending there, and uh her her uh at first Sunday school class and then eventually became life group. 00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:14.160 She was in the hospital for months, and never a week, many times not a day, would go by that she wasn't connected to the church and and visited and prayed for. 00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:17.279 And then I'll never forget the night that she died. 00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:26.720 I'm standing in a parking lot at Baptist Hospital in Nashville, and and Pastor Brady Cooper called me and said, Hey Mike, I just heard your mom died. 00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:28.000 And yeah, I'm so sorry. 00:23:28.240 --> 00:23:29.119 Want to pray with you. 00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:39.039 And and so I have it for me, it has been the paragon of what good pastoral care should look like from a church. 00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:46.480 And I have I have touted the New Vision story every place I go about what a wonderful job they did of taking care. 00:23:46.880 --> 00:23:48.640 And that was the experience that Holly and I had. 00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:52.480 We were kind of planning on doing a little church shopping once we got married. 00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:56.400 We went to New Vision the first week and we didn't make it to any other churches on our list. 00:23:56.559 --> 00:24:00.960 We we camped there and we were there for 10 years before I came on staff. 00:24:01.119 --> 00:24:06.240 And you know, I had obviously grown up as a PK, thought, what's it gonna be like to get behind the curtain here? 00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:06.559 Right. 00:24:06.640 --> 00:24:08.160 And it's made me love the place more. 00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:08.480 Yeah. 00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:19.039 Because the people are so genuine and authentic, and it's it's a real raw, authentic place where we just want to pursue the heart of God, and and that's what I've seen even more being totally behind the scenes. 00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:25.599 Yeah, yeah, that's good, but that's also a sad thing that you would have to have that thought. 00:24:25.680 --> 00:24:28.000 Yeah, but we who grew up as preachers' kids, we do. 00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:29.200 Okay, this is not the whole story. 00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:30.799 That's neat. 00:24:30.880 --> 00:24:32.319 So, well, okay. 00:24:32.559 --> 00:24:33.680 It's been a great story. 00:24:33.920 --> 00:24:40.079 God blessed you and gave you a great career, then made a great minister out of you, and given you a beautiful family. 00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:42.160 And so, all right, thanks for coming, Brad. 00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:43.039 That's all we have time for. 00:24:43.119 --> 00:24:44.000 I appreciate you being here. 00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:45.440 I wish it was that easy. 00:24:46.160 --> 00:24:48.960 Yeah, there's always that other piece in it. 00:24:49.039 --> 00:24:49.839 And you know what? 00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:55.200 The other piece is not more important, it's not even as important. 00:24:55.839 --> 00:25:00.720 But the other piece, I think, gives context to the beautiful thing that God has done. 00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:04.640 It's somehow made more beautiful when we know the other piece. 00:25:04.880 --> 00:25:07.599 So, so tell me a little bit about that. 00:25:08.240 --> 00:25:15.680 Let me back up and say, you you brought up the fact that I uh, by the way, thank you for making me feel so old, but that uh that I did premarital counseling. 00:25:15.920 --> 00:25:17.119 We're coming up on 18 years. 00:25:17.359 --> 00:25:18.319 Wow, by the way. 00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:21.359 Uh, and what a privilege do that, what a joy to do that. 00:25:21.599 --> 00:25:29.279 But I do have kind of this standard thing that I say that I'm look, I'm not gonna get into your sexual behavior, I'm not gonna talk about all this stuff. 00:25:29.359 --> 00:25:35.599 I've got some books you can read, but I am telling you right now, in anticipation of the wedding, stop whatever you're doing. 00:25:35.680 --> 00:25:41.200 Yeah, and and keep yourself pure and clean until the wedding night. 00:25:41.599 --> 00:25:45.119 I I say that to nearly everybody that I talk to. 00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:49.759 In your case, when I said that, you had kind of a a different thought. 00:25:49.839 --> 00:25:51.200 You kind of gulped in a different way. 00:25:51.440 --> 00:25:57.200 Yeah, and I there was the natural gulp of like absolutely Holly and I were, you know, having trouble,

you know, keeping our hands off of each other. 00:25:57.359 --> 00:25:57.599 Sure. 00:25:57.759 --> 00:25:59.599 That's that's the the the obvious side. 00:25:59.759 --> 00:26:05.440 But the other side for me was I'm walking in this pornography addiction that Holly doesn't know about. 00:26:05.680 --> 00:26:11.839 And I assumed you didn't know, but I thought, oh gosh, the Holy Spirit whispered that to Mike, and now I've been I've been busted. 00:26:13.039 --> 00:26:15.680 I mean, this was a thing like I've got to go way back. 00:26:15.759 --> 00:26:19.200 Um, I remember the first time I was exposed to pornography, I was in fourth grade. 00:26:19.279 --> 00:26:23.359 And and to this day, I can still recall the exact image that I saw. 00:26:23.519 --> 00:26:24.160 Isn't that interesting? 00:26:24.480 --> 00:26:28.799 You know, a buddy took me up to his his dad's barn loft, and he's like, Hey, have you ever seen this? 00:26:28.880 --> 00:26:29.920 And he showed me a Playboy. 00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:30.160 Yeah. 00:26:30.319 --> 00:26:32.559 And I remember the way that it made me feel. 00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:38.400 I liken it to uh the old video game Mortal Kombat, you know, you had Scorpion and he'd throw the thing out and pull people over. 00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:39.440 That's what it did to me. 00:26:39.519 --> 00:26:40.640 Yeah, it grabbed me. 00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:50.400 It was like a grappling hook went into my soul, and I knew it was wrong, I knew it wasn't right, but at the same time, man, it was just like this is so intriguing. 00:26:50.559 --> 00:26:54.720 And this began this process for me of being exposed to pornography. 00:26:54.880 --> 00:27:00.319 My house was locked down like Fort Knox, and my dad was too cheap for us to have good internet, so there was no opportunity there. 00:27:00.559 --> 00:27:02.160 We weren't particularly spiritual, we were just poor. 00:27:03.759 --> 00:27:08.640 But down the street, man, there was a couple kids that, man, it was just it was just free reign, full access. 00:27:08.799 --> 00:27:17.920 And so by the time I was in sixth grade, I mean, I was going to kids' houses, and like that was what we were gonna do was just watch pornography. 00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:22.720 And and I don't know how it affected them, but for me, it was something that became an addiction. 00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:37.279 Yeah, and and as I've had some time to grow up and mature and sit back on my story and sit in counseling, I've realized that there's there's one point that's really a catalyst moment where I can point back to and say, man, that was this was definitely a problem, was when I was in eighth grade. 00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:40.799 I was a decent athlete, I wasn't like unbelievable, I was decent. 00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:44.640 I started on the middle school basketball team and we had an awards banquet. 00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:50.799 And that night we're eagerly anticipating, you know, this process of being given awards. 00:27:50.880 --> 00:27:54.480 And I'm thinking, for sure, I'm getting an award because I'm one of the starting five. 00:27:54.720 --> 00:27:57.599 And so the first four get caught up and they get their award. 00:27:57.680 --> 00:28:00.319 So now it's my turn and I'm ready to go up and get my award. 00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:02.559 And the coach picked the sixth man. 00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:05.119 And I didn't get one of the awards. 00:28:05.359 --> 00:28:16.799 And I remember that my solution to the hurt that I was feeling was I had uh hidden a magazine um in my room, and it was like up underneath my drawer. 00:28:16.880 --> 00:28:18.720 It was a sports illustrated swimsuit magazine. 00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:20.799 Yeah, me and my brother knew when the issue came. 00:28:21.119 --> 00:28:28.240 Mom put it in the trash, we dug out the trash, and so I had that hidden inside of my my drawer, and I went to that to bring comfort to myself. 00:28:28.400 --> 00:28:31.599 And like as a as an eighth-grade boy, I wasn't thinking, well, that's a coping mechanism. 00:28:31.759 --> 00:28:31.839 Right. 00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:36.799 But now as an adult, I'm like, man, you recognize I 100% like that's what I went to. 00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:42.480 And so I was living in this duality of I was saved, I was in a a church where I was serving. 00:28:42.559 --> 00:28:49.440 My dad was a senior pastor, and I was um I sang quite a bit, and so I was singing, I was playing drums, some, I was involved in worship services. 00:28:49.680 --> 00:28:58.880 At the same time, though, I'm living out this this other secret life that no one no one knows about, nobody, no one knows the pull that pornography has on me. 00:28:58.960 --> 00:29:08.160 And it just continued to progress, and it reached a point where it really became unmanageable when I went to college, when I went to Anderson University. 00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:08.559 Right. 00:29:08.720 --> 00:29:12.960 Because it was the first time in my life I had my own computer and I had high-speed internet access. 00:29:13.119 --> 00:29:26.640 And this was, you know, really the the time of the dawn of the internet, and to be able to have access to pornography sites at any time of the day, all day long, just shut your door and you're by yourself, it was a real it was a real issue for me. 00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:37.839 So one of the things I say often to people is that our addiction is not geographical, so it doesn't mean, oh, I'm gonna go to this Christian college and this and then I'll be safe from this. 00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:39.759 No, we take it with us wherever we go. 00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:42.240 Yeah, and and honestly, the Christian college made it worse. 00:29:42.400 --> 00:29:42.880 Yeah, yeah. 00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:46.240 It really did because it provided me it provided me more access. 00:29:46.319 --> 00:29:51.920 And so I was at Anderson for two years, came back to MTSU, started working on the recreation degree. 00:29:52.000 -->

00:29:57.759 That's when Holly and I started dating, and all along, she has no idea about any of this. 00:29:57.920 --> 00:29:59.200 I'm living on my own. 00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:02.319 I mean, pornography is something I'm going to regularly. 00:30:02.480 --> 00:30:07.680 And then we come to this point where, man, we're we're probably headed towards marriage. 00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:08.160 Right. 00:30:08.319 --> 00:30:16.240 And I remember one night realizing that I loved her, this clear thought of I love this girl, and I'd never been in love before. 00:30:16.480 --> 00:30:22.880 And the next thought that came was I I'm convinced it was the voice of the enemy was like, You're gonna ruin this. 00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:23.200 Yeah. 00:30:23.359 --> 00:30:25.119 And it was the thought of pornography. 00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:28.960 And I walked out on her balcony and I began to physically throw up. 00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:33.440 And this brought me into a season of severe panic attacks and anxiety. 00:30:34.160 --> 00:30:38.559 All I've now realized, uh, rooted in this double identity. 00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:39.440 Secret sin. 00:30:39.680 --> 00:30:40.160 Secret sin. 00:30:41.119 --> 00:30:41.920 Can't confess it. 00:30:42.160 --> 00:30:43.759 Feel like it's gonna come out at some point. 00:30:43.920 --> 00:30:48.079 But if I if it comes out, I'm probably gonna lose this first person that I've ever loved. 00:30:48.319 --> 00:30:57.440 And um, so I continue to carry it and bury it and hide it and delete histories and do everything that I can to make sure that nobody finds out about it. 00:30:57.599 --> 00:31:02.720 And so we're engaged, we'd gone through premarital counseling, we're getting close to getting married. 00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:09.119 We went to the Passion Conference, which is a conference for college students, and they had a breakout opportunity. 00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:12.960 There was all these different classes you could go to, and I saw this breakout on the list. 00:31:13.039 --> 00:31:15.599 And I'm like, okay, how can I get to this breakout without anyone knowing? 00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:25.440 So I excused myself and I went to a breakout for Triple X Church, which was at the time kind of the biggest group that was working within pornography. 00:31:25.519 --> 00:31:33.200 And so it's a bunch of dudes that love the Lord, and part of their ministry was they were going into porn conventions and loving on porn stars, but then they also had some accountability software. 00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:33.599 Right. 00:31:33.759 --> 00:31:39.519 And so I wanted to know what they had to say because this was the world I was living in, like pornography, and I'm a Christian. 00:31:39.680 --> 00:31:41.039 So I wanted, I wanted to know. 00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:58.880 And I'll never forget, Mike, I walked in and Craig Gross, the founder of Triple X Church, he's on a stage and he's speaking and he says, verbatim, there are some of you in here today that are struggling with a pornography addiction, and you're engaged, and you think that when you get married, pornography is not gonna be an issue. 00:31:59.119 --> 00:32:01.359 And like pins me, I'm like, amen, brother. 00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:02.559 Like that's that's me. 00:32:02.799 --> 00:32:06.880 Because in my mind, once I get married, like I can have sex, I don't have to do that. 00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:09.759 Sex twice a day, like it's everything that I've I've imagined to throw. 00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:11.920 There are a lot of lives wrapped up in that. 00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:17.119 So I remember hearing him say that, and my thought was, idiot, like this guy doesn't know. 00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:20.799 He doesn't know me, he doesn't know that I'm gonna be able to turn this switch off and everything's gonna be good. 00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:28.160 And so December 13th, 2008 comes and goes, and man, we're married and everything's good for the first three months. 00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:28.880 It was great. 00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:31.839 I didn't look at a computer, I didn't look at anything, everything's awesome. 00:32:32.079 --> 00:32:54.079 Well, sure enough, you know, three and a half months comes, and there I am back in front of a computer screen uh watching pornography, except this time the shame that I was feeling was even deeper because I had made this covenant to God with Holly in front of friends and family and vowing to be this person, and I'm already in three and a half months not being the person I said I was gonna be. 00:32:54.319 --> 00:33:09.119 And um, man, it it just got to a place where it became unmanageable that anytime I was hungry, angry, lonely, tired, upset, needing justification, needing validation, that was that was what I was going to. 00:33:09.279 --> 00:33:13.599 And I talked a little bit about the drowning that had taken place uh within the YMCA. 00:33:13.680 --> 00:33:19.440 And when that happened and that other company came in, I got hired on by that company and I started traveling all over the place. 00:33:19.599 --> 00:33:28.720 And what I found is that traveling only made it worse for me because I was in a situation where I had some autonomy, nobody, nobody really knew me. 00:33:28.880 --> 00:33:38.960 And it's interesting that um, if you pay attention, airports typically close to an airport or where a car rental will be, there's either gonna be a strip club or there's gonna be an adult bookstore. 00:33:39.119 --> 00:33:39.359 Right. 00:33:39.519 --> 00:33:42.160 And so I found myself in places I swore I would never go. 00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:44.799 I found myself doing things that I swore I would never do. 00:33:45.200 --> 00:33:49.839 And and one day I can explain it in really no other way than this. 00:33:50.079 --> 00:34:02.720 I had acted out and um I went into the to the to the bathroom to take a shower, and it was like the Lord opened the floodgates and just let me feel the the weight of the sin in a way that I

never had. 00:34:02.880 --> 00:34:05.839 And I remember just falling on my face. 00:34:05.920 --> 00:34:08.000 I couldn't, I physically could not get up. 00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:11.280 I was so overcome with shame. 00:34:11.440 --> 00:34:14.880 I was so overcome with conviction, which is good. 00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:18.559 I was so tired of being two different people, right? 00:34:18.719 --> 00:34:20.320 And I was like, this is it, I'm done. 00:34:20.400 --> 00:34:21.360 I'm not doing this anymore. 00:34:21.440 --> 00:34:24.480 I don't care what the cost is, I can't continue to carry this burden. 00:34:24.639 --> 00:34:28.639 So my first call was to the Reverend Jeff White, you know, called my dad. 00:34:28.719 --> 00:34:30.719 Yeah, and and I said, Dad, I gotta tell you something. 00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:31.840 I'm crying through the tears. 00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:33.440 I told him, you know, I'm addicted to pornography. 00:34:33.519 --> 00:34:36.400 And I've been addicted to pornography since I was probably 10. 00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:38.239 And um, he's crying with me. 00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:42.320 And he's like, Man, you need some support, you need some accountability, you need some guys in your corner. 00:34:42.400 --> 00:34:43.840 And I said, I've got to tell Holly. 00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:47.599 And he's like, Well, I'm gonna pray for you, you know, if you feel like that's what you you need to do right now. 00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:56.159 And um, there's probably a better way to handle that in hindsight, but for me, it was like, I have this burden and I have to let it go right now. 00:34:56.400 --> 00:35:05.199 And so at the time Holly was teaching for the county schools, I got cleaned up, I drove to her school and I walked into her classroom, didn't know the classroom schedule. 00:35:05.360 --> 00:35:16.800 God in his provision allowed me to show up right when she had just dropped her kids off to a special area because I don't know what I was thinking doing that, but it was like I just had to get this off in front of 25 second graders. 00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:18.559 I'm gonna that's exactly right. 00:35:18.719 --> 00:35:21.599 And so I walk in and she's like, Where why are you here? 00:35:21.679 --> 00:35:22.320 Like, what are you doing? 00:35:22.480 --> 00:35:29.280 And I walked in and I sat down at her desk and I put my hands on my head and I started crying and I said, I've got to tell you something. 00:35:29.360 --> 00:35:31.119 I'm addicted to pornography. 00:35:31.360 --> 00:35:37.519 And I I think I was expecting her to take a ring off, to to smack me in the back of the head, start yelling, screaming, whatever. 00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:39.360 And that's not what happened. 00:35:39.440 --> 00:35:46.639 What happened was Holly reached her arms around me from behind and she kissed the back of my head and she said, How can I help you? 00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:48.320 Oh wow, wow. 00:35:48.559 --> 00:35:52.800 And it was like in that moment, I realized like pornography can't ever love me back. 00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:53.280 Right. 00:35:53.440 --> 00:35:54.480 You know, it it can't. 00:35:54.559 --> 00:35:55.760 It's it's empty. 00:35:56.000 --> 00:36:03.440 And so this began a process of me saying, I need some help and uh being honest with myself and being honest with others around me. 00:36:03.599 --> 00:36:05.519 And so I didn't know what to do. 00:36:05.679 --> 00:36:08.480 I didn't hadn't really ever heard anybody kind of talk about it. 00:36:08.559 --> 00:36:16.719 And so one day at New Vision, Pastor Brady alluded to um, what what were you watching last night on the computer or something like that? 00:36:16.880 --> 00:36:18.960 Never said pornography, but just kind of threw it out there. 00:36:19.199 --> 00:36:21.280 Those that were struggling, they they got it. 00:36:21.440 --> 00:36:29.360 And so after the service, I went up to him, and this was one of the first times I remember ever talking to uh to Pastor Brady and I said, Listen, you you mentioned this, and this is real for me. 00:36:29.440 --> 00:36:34.880 I I've just kind of come come public uh with my wife and confess this and and I need some help. 00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:38.239 And he said, Well, maybe meet with one of our staff and see if they can help you. 00:36:38.320 --> 00:36:43.920 And so I go and meet with this guy, and um, to my surprise, he goes, Well, I don't really struggle with that. 00:36:44.079 --> 00:36:47.679 And I was like, Oh, well, I I feel like a complete loser now. 00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:48.480 Yeah, right. 00:36:49.039 --> 00:36:49.440 Thank you. 00:36:49.599 --> 00:36:51.360 And so he says, Well, why don't you start a group? 00:36:51.440 --> 00:36:55.840 And so I'm like, I'm pretty sure this is what the Bible's talking about when it says the blind leading the blind. 00:36:56.079 --> 00:36:56.960 But that's what I did. 00:36:57.039 --> 00:36:58.719 I didn't know any better. 00:36:58.880 --> 00:37:02.000 And so I started a group in my house and I started just inviting people. 00:37:02.079 --> 00:37:03.519 We went through every man's battle. 00:37:03.840 --> 00:37:12.480 We watched the videos, we talked about it, and this began this journey for me of sharing my story and being really open with it, and like I'm not ashamed of it. 00:37:12.559 --> 00:37:12.800 Right. 00:37:12.960 --> 00:37:15.760 Um, it's something that that God has done a work in my life. 00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:21.039 And so as I began more to be more willing to share about it, the church started sending me people. 00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:23.840 It was like, hey, this guy has a problem with pornography. 00:37:23.920 --> 00:37:25.039 Can you meet with him and talk to him? 00:37:25.199 --> 00:37:31.039 And so I think that was kind of how I got on the church's radar was just being a guy who was willing to talk about pornography and sexual sin. 00:37:31.280 --> 00:37:32.559 Yeah, that's great, Brad. 00:37:32.719 --> 00:37:33.039 Wow.

00:37:33.199 --> 00:37:33.599 Yeah. 00:37:33.840 --> 00:37:47.760 One of the neat things about that story that is uh kind of contradictory to the way that it normally happens, though, is you being able to call your dad and talk to your dad about that. 00:37:48.400 --> 00:37:56.880 Very often, number one, either our dads are caught up in that, or we have no relationship with our dad, or there's a there's a father wound. 00:37:57.039 --> 00:38:06.719 So praise God for that that that little bit of heaven in that moment that even in the midst of this darkest thing, I can call my dad and and talk about that. 00:38:07.039 --> 00:38:08.400 So so that's great. 00:38:08.559 --> 00:38:22.159 So you so you you confess to Holly, you now you've told Pastor Brady, you tell your dad, and then and so it just absolutely everything goes away, and you're completely healed, and and glory, hallelujah. 00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:23.280 Definitely not. 00:38:23.360 --> 00:38:25.599 Uh that's definitely not not how it happened. 00:38:25.679 --> 00:38:30.320 I I think in my mind I thought, you know, now that I've told somebody this desire is gonna go away. 00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:41.360 But, you know, I've since done a lot of research and a lot of studying and understanding that, man, this is something that is affecting my brain and my neuropathways, and it's really become hardwired into the way that I think. 00:38:41.440 --> 00:38:50.159 And it's it's a default for me that when something happens that's frustrating or traumatic, like this is what I want to go to because I'm gonna get that dopamine relief. 00:38:50.320 --> 00:39:04.079 And um, so for me, it became a process of having to get some accountability, having to have some other guys who were in my corner willing to walk with me, talk with me, share honestly with me, and me to share honestly with them. 00:39:04.239 --> 00:39:08.159 That was step one, but then also accountability to my devices, right? 00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:09.360 Because I'm being accessed. 00:39:09.440 --> 00:39:13.039 Yeah, yeah, you know, uh, I'm I'm receiving access in some way, shape, or form. 00:39:13.199 --> 00:39:25.599 And so for me, it was putting some software on my computers, it was getting rid of some devices because I came to realize like either I'm controlling my phone or my tablet or my computer, or on the other side of that, it's controlling me. 00:39:25.760 --> 00:39:25.920 Right. 00:39:26.320 --> 00:39:32.320 And and there was there was definitely some of those things that was like, no, this is actually this is actually controlling me. 00:39:32.480 --> 00:39:40.400 I think one of the biggest things early on was realizing that there were certain times that I just seemed to be falling to the sin. 00:39:40.800 --> 00:39:43.760 And that time for me was Wednesday mornings between 8 a.m. 00:39:43.920 --> 00:39:48.079 Yeah and 12 in the afternoon because I worked a late night shift at the Y. 00:39:48.559 --> 00:39:57.440 Holly was already headed to school, she's gone, I'm by myself, and so I would be bored and I might get on the computer to do something that is harmless and fine. 00:39:57.679 --> 00:40:02.320 All of a sudden you're clicking, clicking, clicking, and then you're somewhere that you you didn't want to be. 00:40:02.800 --> 00:40:09.440 And so I made this commitment with my accountability person that Wednesdays from eight to twelve, I was gonna do something else. 00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:12.800 And so interestingly enough, I I decided to take up fishing. 00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:16.559 And so I would watch YouTube videos on Tuesday nights of how to fish. 00:40:16.639 --> 00:40:16.880 Uh-huh. 00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:20.639 And then on Wednesdays, I would go down to the river and and fish. 00:40:20.800 --> 00:40:26.800 And the funniest thing, one day I'm I'm out there and I'm fishing, and all of a sudden I feel like something on the other end of the pole. 00:40:27.039 --> 00:40:33.039 I never caught anything, and I've catched this fish, and then I'm like, I never watched a video on how to take a fish off. 00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:40.000 And so I made some I made some uh sashimi on the side of the uh the side of the greenway that day. 00:40:40.079 --> 00:40:43.199 But it's it's been funny because now fishing is like one of my favorite hobbies. 00:40:43.920 --> 00:40:51.199 I absolutely love to fish, and really fishing started for me so that I was doing something positive and productive instead of just sitting in isolation. 00:40:51.440 --> 00:40:52.159 That's neat. 00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:56.159 Uh we, you know, a little bit of my story, and we've talked about tennis. 00:40:56.239 --> 00:40:57.440 The tennis is that for me. 00:40:57.519 --> 00:41:05.440 Yeah, I started playing tennis as I entered into recovery, and and every once in a while I think, well, why do I love tennis so much? 00:41:05.519 --> 00:41:11.199 And I realize I love it because it's so deeply ingrained with my own recovery and all of that. 00:41:11.360 --> 00:41:11.599 Yeah. 00:41:12.400 --> 00:41:26.880 Another important step that that that you've pointed out, Brad, we when we work with people, one of the things, first things I do is ask men to write out their their ritual uh Wednesday mornings. 00:41:26.960 --> 00:41:28.880 I'm home all alone, that's when this happens. 00:41:29.039 --> 00:41:36.960 I always say, you know, if if that's true, by the time it's Wednesday at 10 o'clock and I'm looking at YouTube videos, I'm I'm gone. 00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:37.840 I'm too far off. 00:41:38.159 --> 00:41:38.480 Absolutely. 00:41:38.639 --> 00:41:43.440 So I need to Tuesday night, I need to pull up the fishing videos and say, here's how I'm gonna stop this. 00:41:43.519 --> 00:41:43.920 So good. 00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:44.320 So good. 00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:48.960 I I liken that to if if I said, Hey Mike, I'm gonna be at your front door at 9 a.m. 00:41:49.119 --> 00:41:50.800 tomorrow and I'm gonna punch you when you

walk out the door. 00:41:50.880 --> 00:41:50.960 Yeah. 00:41:51.119 --> 00:41:53.760 And then I punch you at 9 a.m., you're like, why'd you punch me? 00:41:53.840 --> 00:41:55.199 I said, Well, I told you I was gonna be here. 00:41:55.280 --> 00:41:55.360 Right. 00:41:55.519 --> 00:41:57.280 And then the next day I'll say, I'm gonna be back at 9 a.m. 00:41:57.440 --> 00:41:57.760 tomorrow. 00:41:57.840 --> 00:41:58.960 And then the same thing happens. 00:41:59.119 --> 00:41:59.440 Right. 00:41:59.599 --> 00:42:02.880 By the third day, hopefully you're coming out with a helmet on, you're doing something different. 00:42:02.960 --> 00:42:06.960 You're you're not gonna walk through the same pattern when you're getting punched every single time. 00:42:07.360 --> 00:42:08.639 Or I'm gonna leave the house at eight o'clock. 00:42:08.800 --> 00:42:09.280 Yeah, exactly. 00:42:09.440 --> 00:42:12.000 So I realize, man, I'm getting punched every single Wednesday. 00:42:12.239 --> 00:42:16.400 So if you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got, as Jeff White would say. 00:42:16.639 --> 00:42:18.239 So yes, that's right. 00:42:19.840 --> 00:42:23.840 Our uh our fathers got so much smarter when we got a little older, didn't they? 00:42:24.239 --> 00:42:24.800 Man, I'm telling you. 00:42:25.039 --> 00:42:25.519 That's neat. 00:42:25.599 --> 00:42:26.159 So good. 00:42:26.320 --> 00:42:28.239 So God has continued that process. 00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:30.000 And I appreciate you saying that so much. 00:42:30.159 --> 00:42:37.280 It is, I do believe, I believe there's absolute miraculous healing, and God in an instant can change things. 00:42:37.440 --> 00:42:44.159 But there's also that process, and I continue to learn more about accountability software. 00:42:44.239 --> 00:42:48.079 I continue to be involved in groups, to read books, to do all of those things. 00:42:48.320 --> 00:42:48.960 So good for you. 00:42:49.599 --> 00:42:52.079 To this day, I still have accountability software on my phone. 00:42:52.159 --> 00:42:53.280 I have covenant eyes. 00:42:53.360 --> 00:42:56.719 If somebody's looking for a great software, that would be the one that I would recommend. 00:42:56.960 --> 00:43:07.760 $20 a month, and my dad is getting screenshots of what I'm looking at, and my buddy Brad is getting screenshots of what I'm looking at because I don't want to be in a situation where that temptation comes and I have access. 00:43:07.840 --> 00:43:15.199 So Craig Rochelle, who's a who's a pretty well-known pastor, he says, Why deal with temptation in the future if you can eliminate it today? 00:43:15.360 --> 00:43:16.079 Yes, absolutely. 00:43:16.239 --> 00:43:22.079 And so for me, covenant eyes has been a way that I can eliminate that temptation now before I ever walk through the doors of it. 00:43:22.239 --> 00:43:22.719 Yeah. 00:43:23.039 --> 00:43:37.280 And so in your work with men now and your work at the church, I'm sure this is a

very big part of what you do of helping men to put some things in place to overcome addictions and it's weekly. 00:43:37.599 --> 00:43:47.599 I mean, it's a weekly conversation that I meet with a guy, and what I found is, and I'm sure you would agree with this, that for most of these men, I become the first person that they've disclosed this to. 00:43:48.159 --> 00:43:49.280 And there's really two categories. 00:43:49.360 --> 00:43:56.880 I think there's the guy who has been caught and his wife has sent him to the church, or there's the guy who's just come to a point of like, I can't keep doing this. 00:43:57.440 --> 00:43:59.679 And my preference is the guy who says I can't keep doing that. 00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:05.760 Because he's come to a place of really hating his sin and seeing it for what it is, and he wants to pursue the holiness of Christ. 00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:09.519 The guy who got in trouble, he just wants to get back on his wife's good side. 00:44:09.760 --> 00:44:21.920 And he may he might realize that that it's a problem, but uh what I've realized in working with guys, and I'm sure you would agree with this, that until a guy says, Man, I see this as sin and I hate this, yeah, then he's not ready to do the work that's required. 00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:23.280 Yeah, I agree. 00:44:23.440 --> 00:44:32.800 I've said if I could if I could create a pill that you could give a guy and make him hate his sin, we'd we'd make a million bucks. 00:44:33.039 --> 00:44:33.519 So that's it. 00:44:33.760 --> 00:44:36.079 Brad, wow, what a what a great, great thing. 00:44:36.239 --> 00:44:48.159 Well, it's interesting to me that that I come up with these wild-eyed thoughts of what this is going to be about, and God in his grace makes it about that. 00:44:48.400 --> 00:45:08.880 But but God was at work on you when you were a 10-year-old boy, about the time that you and Jacob are sitting there talking, that God was leading you through some dark days, yeah, preparing you for really what is the most significant thing you'll ever do in your life, yeah, is reach men and deliver them from that. 00:45:09.199 --> 00:45:10.800 Wow, Brad, what a great story. 00:45:10.960 --> 00:45:14.559 Thank you for for your courage to tell that. 00:45:14.719 --> 00:45:21.039 Uh, and I know you know this, but one of my favorite sayings is every time we tell our story, our shame is cut in half. 00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:26.159 I just it it keeps me clean and sober by telling the story over and over again. 00:45:26.400 --> 00:45:30.000 But but how God has used that just been so neat. 00:45:30.159 --> 00:45:32.239 Let me ask you before we go. 00:45:33.039 --> 00:45:38.880 Uh I always hate when people ask me, well, give me three little points, but uh, but I but I'm gonna do it anyway. 00:45:39.039 --> 00:45:40.079 Three, what would you say? 00:45:40.239 --> 00:45:46.960 If you could go back and talk to 10, 11, 12-year-old Brad and say, Don't do this, don't go down that path. 00:45:47.119 --> 00:45:47.280 Yeah. 00:45:47.519 --> 00:45:55.599 What what kinds of things and and maybe I'm thinking also parents who have 10, 12-year-old boys that they think, oh, they're fine. 00:45:55.679 --> 00:45:55.760 Sure. 00:45:55.920 --> 00:45:57.920 What what's some things you could say to help them? 00:45:58.239 --> 00:45:59.760 Well, you know, I've I've been in this situation. 00:45:59.840 --> 00:46:03.599 I have a 15-year-old son, yeah, and so I've navigated these waters. 00:46:03.679 --> 00:46:09.840 And I think one of the things that there's so much research around now is age of exposure. 00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:11.440 It's it's getting lower and lower. 00:46:11.599 --> 00:46:15.199 I think the average age of exposure is seven or eight now because of technology. 00:46:15.360 --> 00:46:15.519 Right. 00:46:15.760 --> 00:46:22.400 And so we have um had the conversations with our kids, and we had the conversations with our kids early and age appropriate. 00:46:22.480 --> 00:46:28.239 So there's a great book for parents called Good Pictures, Bad Pictures, and that's for your kids that are five, six, seven. 00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:44.719 Um, and then really with Cade, we went through a book called Guy Stuff, and it really just talks about pre-puberty, but then walking through that and explaining God's design for sex and then explaining how pornography is really this um deviation that Satan manipulated this good gift that God has given us. 00:46:45.440 --> 00:46:50.079 And so what I tell young guys and and old guys too is it's like a fire. 00:46:50.239 --> 00:46:50.960 Sex is like a fire. 00:46:51.039 --> 00:46:56.480 You've heard it before that when it's out in a field and it's loose, man, it's dangerous and it wreaks havoc. 00:46:56.559 --> 00:47:04.639 But inside of the fireplace, within God's design, within the way that God has given it to us, it is this beautiful and wonderful gift and it's worth waiting for. 00:47:04.880 --> 00:47:07.119 It's not a don't do it, it's a wait and do it right. 00:47:07.280 --> 00:47:08.239 Yeah, that's good, Brandon. 00:47:08.320 --> 00:47:09.199 Yeah, it's really good. 00:47:09.440 --> 00:47:14.639 Well, the other side of that, though, the guy that says, Man, I'm 55 years old. 00:47:14.719 --> 00:47:16.639 I wish I had talked to you when I was 15. 00:47:16.719 --> 00:47:17.119 Yeah. 00:47:17.280 --> 00:47:18.559 Uh, what do I do now? 00:47:18.639 --> 00:47:20.000 I'm just, I just, I've tried. 00:47:20.079 --> 00:47:22.159 I can't, I can't quit. 00:47:22.400 --> 00:47:23.440 What do I do now? 00:47:23.760 --> 00:47:25.840 Yeah, you're never, you're never too far gone, right? 00:47:26.159 --> 00:47:27.760 God's God's grace is enough. 00:47:27.920 --> 00:47:35.039 I think first and foremost, you've got to be able to admit it to yourself that this is an issue, that this is a problem, this is something that's controlling me. 00:47:35.119 --> 00:47:36.400 It's not honoring to God. 00:47:36.639 -->

00:47:47.920 Number two is admitting it to someone that is a close friend, someone that's a mentor, um, to get some accountability because accountability is something that is so key for walking with a pornography addiction. 00:47:48.159 --> 00:47:56.559 If you try to do this on your own, and I tried on my own uh without accountability, you're gonna end up back in front of your computer or your phone within weeks or months. 00:47:56.800 --> 00:48:09.840 And so having that um accountability in person and then having some accountability to your devices, and so putting the triple X Church or the Covenant Eyes software on there, or maybe even saying, gosh, maybe I should just get a flip phone. 00:48:09.920 --> 00:48:10.480 Yeah, yeah. 00:48:10.639 --> 00:48:15.039 You know, so I I think making some decisions to set yourself up best for success. 00:48:15.280 --> 00:48:22.400 And then I had this idea um that I've kind of thought out and put some time into is this idea of mapping, and it's really saying, like, when am I falling? 00:48:22.480 --> 00:48:23.920 When am I getting punched in the face? 00:48:24.079 --> 00:48:35.519 And making a plan for those times when I continue to fall to that same sin, because sin seems to be in my life anyway, it's been very habitual, and it's sin it seems to have happened in the same way on the same day at the same time. 00:48:35.840 --> 00:48:43.760 And so having a plan for those times when the pressure's gonna come, uh, because if I go into you know my Wednesday without a plan, I'm set up for failure. 00:48:44.079 --> 00:48:44.639 Yeah, yeah. 00:48:44.880 --> 00:48:45.599 Well, that's good. 00:48:45.679 --> 00:48:46.320 Thank you, Brad. 00:48:46.400 --> 00:48:52.320 Yeah, Brad has written a great book called The Little Book About the Big Lie of Pornography. 00:48:52.400 --> 00:48:52.719 Yeah. 00:48:52.960 --> 00:48:55.280 Uh it's available on Amazon. 00:48:55.440 --> 00:48:57.280 Uh, I'm sure you can get it from him. 00:48:57.440 --> 00:49:06.639 We actually will put in show notes both of these books that he just mentioned and also uh Brad's book, and I'd encourage you to get those, follow up on those. 00:49:06.880 --> 00:49:11.679 Well, here we are, full circle, back home for the very first time. 00:49:11.840 --> 00:49:22.079 Uh I feel like I've I feel like I have sat down with an old friend and found out all kinds of new things about him, and so met him for the first time again. 00:49:22.159 --> 00:49:24.400 And that's what God is doing in our lives. 00:49:24.719 --> 00:49:35.519 Never be surprised at the things that you went through in the early days of your life that God brings around full circle to be some of the greatest blessings in your life. 00:49:35.840 --> 00:49:41.039 And never imagine that God is finished with you, that he can't do something with you. 00:49:41.280 --> 00:49:43.519 He's still bringing you back home again. 00:49:43.679 --> 00:49:47.039 And when you get there, you'll realize you were there for the very first time. 00:49:47.280 --> 00:49:49.360 Thank you so much for being a part of this. 00:49:49.519 --> 00:49:51.119 This is Extending Branches. 00:49:51.199 --> 00:49:58.480 It's a podcast that we do regularly to help you have a better understanding of how to live happier, healthier, and holier lives. 00:49:58.639 --> 00:50:03.519 If you like what you see here, we encourage you to go to the branches website and follow up there. 00:50:03.679 --> 00:50:09.920 We'd also like you to like, click, subscribe, share, whatever those things are that you're supposed to do. 00:50:10.159 --> 00:50:17.039 We are glad that you're a part of this conversation, especially glad to have this conversation with my friend Brad White. 00:50:17.360 --> 00:50:21.199 We believe that God has said to us, He's the vine. 00:50:21.360 --> 00:50:23.679 If we remain in him, our life will be full. 00:50:23.760 --> 00:50:27.760 So our desire then is to extend that branch to you. 00:50:27.920 --> 00:50:28.800 God bless you. 00:50:29.039 --> 00:50:30.480 Have a great day.