Jakson What Starting Over Taught Lawrence Walters About Running an Integration Business täydellinen litterointi

for you know other integrators for close to twenty years. So differ different different size things. I worked at Best Buy, did that. So like that, high, you know, high traffic, retail showroom. I worked for another integrator locally that is kind of a retail integration hybrid, you know. So again, like high volume, like lots of door poles, you know, very like transact lots of transactional sales, like where you're just like, Hey, I need this and this, and you know, try to just deliver on, you know, that basic like that basic need that people have, try to, check all the boxes. then I've also worked for, integrator where it was more of the experience center setup, you know, beautiful space, you know, you bring people through, you know, it's really built for more that business development kind of tool, that kind of thing. and then kind of when I went off on my own, it was sort of like, okay, well, how do I take all of those skills and apply that to kind of like a limited resource sort of thing. You when you go off on your own, it's like, you know, you go from having all these resources, this like legacy business that, you know, has this great reputation and, you know, just it's we can relate in a lot of ways. Yeah. and I think what's fun is like kind of seeing how, you know, going from a like an established business to starting your own, how much work you have to do to kind of build up that awareness, and how much that it just makes a huge difference, you know, and as a sales person, 'cause I I have a more of a sales background than a technical background. And, you know, I think sometimes as a salesperson you take that for granted how much work the name on your shirt or like the name on you know the name of the company behind you is doing for you as a salesperson. Doesn't doesn't that always make it like the sales and marketing getting lumped like together? Was that always a shock to you to see that, you know, in terms of how roles are are, you know Yeah, and I think what was interesting, so I was at I was another integrator that was an it's an HTSA integrator, and they, you know, we we were kind of going from this like retail heavy thing to you know, more of the integration, more of the relationship sort of sales thing. And this was probably I think it's maybe five, six years ago. It was basically right when Rob Estherly joined HTSA and started doing his relationship science classes. And I think I was either in the first class or the second. It was like we were in one of the very early. Come to Philly for that? Because I know he had people come to Philly. So this was so I I ran to him at we were at the Sonance training out in California, like right when he joined, and then he came out to Farmington like That's right, yeah in Detroit, like right away. And was kinda fun this is like he'll tell this story too, but what's kinda funny was I had been at this company for ten, ten plus years, and I thought that I was like the shit. Like I knew I knew everything. you know, I was super confident, cocky. I'm like, what do I need this guy for? Like what do I need like this whole you know, just I this is, you know, so foreign to me, right? And I think what was funny was by the second or third day, it's like I started it it started to click, right? And it started to make sense where I understood that what I was doing, even though I was successful selling in a transactional sense, like I could, you know, someone could come in, I could figure out what they wanted, I could get him out the door, and I could make my sale. It was actually a self-defeating thing where if I was like taking my time, you know, building trust, building a relationship, that that client would then be my client and could turn into, you know, a referral source, like all these other things that would have really helped me build my own like book, like my my book, not the the the company's book. Right. and it sort of became this like so like his like the Cialdini, like relationship science kind of stuff kind of became this foundation for my next couple stops where you're sort of thinking of that first. Rather than transactional sales and the evolution of that's been kind of interesting, you know, kind of now being on my own and you know, kinda using Wild that he does it all through some Legos, isn't it? Like it's crazy. Yeah, and I think what's funny now. You know, I did the class so long ago that you kind of you remember like the highlights of it and you remember certain pieces of it. And that's what I was kinda saying was like it kind of like starts the journey and if you if you stay and you do it multiple times and you kinda continue the education You can get really deep into it. But I think what for me what was good was I think it just helped me have this paradigm shift where I I kinda just changed the way I think about sales and the way I think about relationships. But then kind of like layering other concepts on top of that and kind of using that as a foundation and then laying layering other things over top of it to sort of help kind shape the way I think about client experience and like how we wanna present as a business and that sort of thing. Yeah. I well I it's a question I've been able to ask more often than I ever thought I'd be able to, in the last couple of weeks. But and I to the point where I hosted a session at Cedia expo around this very topic. but the decision, you you kinda you mentioned it in there, but the decision to go out on your own, is there you know, and again, it's almost like I ask this because I don't know if I need information for myself, or it's like I w I'm like just curious to know how all these people, myself included, decide to go out on your own. That's a leap. And, you know, making that decision is not easy, or at least it shouldn't be. you know, it's there's a lot of thought that has to go into it and, you know, a lot obviously work up until that point to you're comfortable to the point to to

be able to do it. So for you, what was that journey like, deciding to go out on your own? And when did you even realize it was possible for you? Yeah. I mean So it's interesting. So I was the other integrator that I was at, I had this conversation with the owner of that company at one point where are you cut I want to ask because I I know who it is. Are you comfortable calling them out? I like Yeah, exactly. So I can say the different I can say the different company. So the the the company, the HTSA dealer was Paulson's audio and video in Farmington Hill, so big HTSA dealer. Yep. the other company that I was with was Soundcheck, who's a Pro Source dealer. Yep. and Soundcheck over the last couple of years has been, since sold and, has new ownership and leadership and that sort of thing. But when I was there, I remember having a conversation with the owner where, he was kind 'cause I was the sales like sales and marketing manager. I had moved over from Paulsons to take on a different role. but he asked me, he's like, Well, why don't you, you know, go off on your own and like, why don't you do, you know, do your own business? Like just kind of not like saying I should, but just like kind of inquisitive, right? And Really up to that point I never really had even thought of it. I never even wild to be posed that, right, as an option. someone you're working for them, doing work on their behalf and they're like, Well, why don't you go do it on your own? It was like, What? Like why? Yeah. No, exactly. And I think that it's terrifying like I think that the like that's the part that's kind of like maybe I think what's good with talking with me at like where I'm at today is that I'm still at the like what I would call the beginning of the journey. a lot of times you talk to people where they're further down the path and they've gone they you they've got to the the place that they're trying to get to, or at least a v more mature, place, right? Yeah. And I think what is so difficult when you're working for a business and you're doing a job for them, it's really hard to understand what the weight of the organization really means. And like having having the responsibility of your employees, your clients your vendors, all of those things sitting on your shoulders and what that really feels like and what that really is. and it's it's really hard. it's just it it's honestly it's it's one of the things that I was probably the just I was very ill prepared. Like I think just especially like emotionally and like what that stress and what that pressure was going to feel like. You underestimate it, right? Yeah, there's just no way. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that As you go through different experiences, as you go off on your own and you start something, like along the way, you're gonna you're gonna have hurdle after hurdle after hurdle that I kind of call it like building up calluses. You're basically like each experience is giving you another little layer of experience, and it's kind of like changing the bar of like what stress really is, and it very quickly changes your perspective. I sat down with one of my buddies the other day that's that's the salesperson in the area and he was like, Man, I'm really stressed out. I'm really, going through it and I'm like, I'm sitting here on the other side of it, I'm like, Well, what what's stressful? You know what I mean? what's what's really going on? and I think that you're so far removed from what was stressful to you when you were just like a salesperson or just a technician, or like when you just when you kinda have your like isolated role when you're now responsible for everyone, it changes what that is, right? Yeah. especially when you start a small business and you have limited resources and every sale, every transaction, every every relationship, the weight of all of these pieces is much heavier than like anything, you know, 'cause yeah. In the past I lose a sale, like what's the worst that happens, right? It's like I didn't get commission that week or whatever, but then you move on, you know, and so I don't know. Yeah, it's it's different. it's it's perspective too. when you're younger and you it's a a multitude of factors, right? You're younger in your career and there's just you know, y maybe there's like a you're trying to prove it type mentality, that you belong. to you know, you kinda grow in it. You got you build like you mentioned build those calluses and you get used to it and it's just that that career experience to then Yeah, like shifting and and being responsible for all of it. Like that seems like I it's weird Maybe connection, but the I don't know if you've ever seen the there's this classroom reel and or whatever, in Instagram thing that I've seen where it's like a professor in a class and he starts filling this jar with golf balls. It's like all the big problems and he's like, Do you guys think this is full? And it's like full of golf balls. But then he pours, little pebbles in it and it starts the pebbles fill it up and they're like, But do you think it's full now? And they're like, Of course. Then he starts pouring sand into it and it's like so it's just the perspective on things, y it's very different. when you are in the type of seat you're in now. and kind of what you have to worry about. my God. Yeah. And then I I guess the other the other part of my story that I've kind of like I didn't really touch on was I had s so I went off from soundcheck and I started a business with partners. Yep. And like that experience I think was it was great because we were able to do a lot really fast. We also we're under a ton of pressure to perform because we had scaled very incredibly quickly, but ultimately the business fail you know, is a failure ultimately. And the like going through that, like where you have like all of this like excitement and ambition, and you know, you're putting in all of your resources to try to build something and to ultimately

have it fail and have to sort of deal with. the fallout from that failure, it's it again, it's another thing that sort of moved the bar for me where what's worse than that. You know what I mean? Like now it's like it takes a lot to really like, you know, to really shake you or to like to find something where, you know, this isn't a problem to be solved or isn't a problem that we can sort of work our way through. Right. and it's incredibly challenging. I think that like the amount of resiliency that's sort of built through experiences like that. is really hard to duplicate. and I think it's something that it's kind of weird. It's like the the the economic period that we just sort of finished was really, really good. But for me, I've been going through just like the worst economic experience of my life. Yeah. And there's really challenging, you know, business experience. So it's kind of interesting to sort of like go through a good what would most people would say is a good economic time, but to be going through trials and tribulations and like, All this difficulty at the same time. And it's so it's a weird you're in a weird position where you've been getting hardened over the last few years rather than softened by I was gonna say you talk about the calluses. I knew it in my head I knew I kinda knew I didn't want to push in that direction. I'm glad you organically brought it up here because I I think it is a an incredibly important part of your story. in that you you mentioned the calluses. That's like that's like a a major surgery in terms of you know the the types of things and how you build up you know resilience as an individual and business owner. if you're comfortable diving into it, the lessons le like what did you obviously a lot you can learn from a a situation like that. What specifically, you know, as you you know make the decision too to like start again, right? so what did you carry from that situation into what you're doing now? So Okay, so a couple things. I think that one of the things that was good with that experience was that it like it would put it was we were under so much so there's two ways to start, right? you can either start with a lot of capital with a bigger team and start quickly. You could also start with very little capital or no capital and start with a much smaller team, right? Like much kind of you know, whatever. And I think what was ultimately good about starting, you know, that business the way that we did was that it kind of forced us and forced me to grow very quickly and to get out of my comfort zone and create this sense of urgency that you're always living with where you're always looking like, where's the next relationship? Where's the next deal? going back and calling, your client base, working relationships. you're like, because you'd get to the like and this is the s the scary part and the part that a lot of people don't necessarily talk about, but like you'd get to weeks where You literally would have

no money in the bank and you're like, okay, how do we pa make payroll? How do we pay this vendor? How do we order the product that we need? and when, you know, credit cards get maxed and bank accounts run low and you know, resources become scarce, it sort of forces you to figure it out, right? And it's very difficult to simulate that feeling. You can't really make it up, you can't role play what that feels like. And I think that that was probably the the silver lining of that experience was that it taught me that skill, but it also taught it to me in a very hard harsh way, in a very real way. and ultimately when the business failed, I was kind of left in a situation where, you know, we were, no cash in the bank, credit cards were leveraged. we had taken on a very large, you know, deposit liability for work. that again, this is this is a terrifying situation to find yourself in where you now have to figure out how do I what do I do? I know some guys I've talked to file bankruptcy, say you're sorry, whatever, right? And I didn't have much of a background at all in the field. Like I hadn't hadn't really ever wired a house, really hung very few television, like just done very little. And I basically had to with one of my partners I had to go and buy tools and figure it out. And we basically just went job to job and worked through that deposit liability to essentially be able to close a business. because you know, that it was kind of like we either do that or your reputation and you know, really like how do you hold your head up and do that? I think that's the part that was really hard. It's like I I couldn't We're taking money from people and it's like how do you just walk away, right? how do you walk away from people and I mean it kinda sounds like to, you know, metaphor it if you will, like either the tail between your legs or you go down swinging. And it sounds like you guys kinda tried to do the latter, right? And go to at least, you know, yeah, fight on behalf of the clients that you had. Yeah, and I would say it's not as we're trying to say it didn't feel as heroic as that metaphor, you know, when you were going through it. Like it because it's one of those things where every day you just don't know. You know what I mean? I think that, we had instances where, I'm like I get a call from someone and you're like, you're dodging the calls because you're like, I don't know what I'm gonna tell this person. Or, you walk into a distributor and you need to order product and none of your credit cards are working because they're maxed out and you're just like, What do what am I gonna do? Right. And you have to figure out a way to shuffle something, collect, collect an invoice, do something to get enough money to get product that then you can go And finish that job to then collect a little bit more to go do the next thing, right? And that is it's just like it's it's so hard for me to really d describe the emotion of what that feels like to basically walk into a place that you know you walk into a hundred times and will always walk out with stuff, right? Yeah. and have the tools that you need to, you know, to go and complete the work. Or I mean, we had one instance like This is a couple years ago, but we literally weren't like we could literally couldn't fill up the truck with gas. the credit cards, we didn't have enough money to get gas in the truck. So if you think about like the like the downer, like just how heavy that is and to kind of go through an experience like that, it I think it really reshapes like how you look going forward and then like even two from like a communications perspective, just being able to ta you talk about the difficult conversations Yeah. I you can that's something I know, you know, you can go through leadership classes, communications classes, and try to role play. But to your point, like until you are, you know, in that moment and having to have those conversations, that is, you know, on the fly learning is about as good as it gets. in a in a I say as good as it gets, but again, in like a really tough situation. So that I mean have being able to power through those conversations. I I have to imagine on the other side of it, you're looking at it like, man, I'll never have a a more difficult time talking to someone than that. Yeah. And I think that like going from being an employee to being someone that was in charge of people or like a manager of people, I think that that was one of the things that I was I had the least amount of experience with. And I talked to my guys about this a lot too. I'm like, look, like I've been a salesperson for 20 years. I've been a manager for five, right? And there's lot of lessons and leadership lessons that I'm still learning and that I'm still d developing that skill. And I have a lot less repetitions on that side of things, right? And I think that, I'm just this made me think of like I had a day where, so this is in the middle of this financial crisis, and we literally got to a client's house, and we thought we had it was like an 85-inch TV, and it was maybe like a I don't maybe it a $4,000 TV. So it's a pretty expensive television, right? costs four grand. And we get there, we think that we're good. The TV, we open it up and it's a cracked screen. And the problem was that this is something that we had in inventory. So I needed to, I couldn't like return it immediately. So now I have to try to figure out going and buying a TV when I don't really have the money to buy it. So now I've got to call distributors, find out who has it, figure out how I can get. get it, right? So that I can still finish this job because I also needed the money from that job that day. But the the the where this escalates is that same time I got a c a really angry call while I'm driving back to the distributor from a builder on another project that we were trying to finish where this lighting product didn't go in properly. And i they were really, really

frustrated, right? So I'm already like you can think about this from a personal side. Like You're already going through all this pressure of, all these other things. You've got this TV that's broken. You're trying to solve this problem. And then you get that call from that builder that's upset. Right. Right. And the cool thing about the story is that we just drove right over there. So instead of me like dodging the guy's call, saying, Hey, I'll I'll get back to you, we literally drove like I just drove across town. I was like, Hey, are you guys there now? Let's do this now. and it was as stressed as I was about the other situation. You basically just have to force yourself in front of in front of the train basically. Yeah. And just take it. Right. And he they they basically sat there and they yelled at me for, I don't know, 10 minutes or something. You just sort of take it on the chin and then you start getting constructive and sort of figure out, like, okay, how do we solve the problem? You know, and think that was one of those days where I realized that my my job is really is that. It's like it's solving problems and it's sort of like listening and getting all the information and then figuring out how do you how do we get through this challenge, right? And what are what are the things we need to know to start to solve this? Who are the people we need to call? What information are we missing? And it's been a real that was that was huge. I mean just like a huge change for me, I think. And just again, under an incredible amount of pressure having to deal with something like that kind of head on. So Yeah. And well that's the funny thing is like that's kind of what you think about your your experience in sales and relationship management, 'cause that's I I know that is so much of what sales is, is is, who how you know them and and just making things work. That's a fa it's so different in terms of it there's a problem on the other end, but I have to imagine all that time spent in sales it translates well when you're dealing with like angry customers and and wanting to, you know, just let them vent, let them get it out 'cause it's gonna happen. And then, you know, all right, now what do we do? Yeah, and I think it's it took me a long time to understand that. I had I remember years ago I had a client that he would kinda cut me off. I would kinda be getting salesy and he would kinda uhhuh, uhhuh. and you had to have this little social social tick that was like him telling me shut up and it's time to listen. And I feel like that one c like that that thing stuck with me and it's one of those things where you're kinda like, All right, it's not my time to talk. Let them get this off their chest. Don't try to explain it away or don't try to solve the problem until they really get a chance to be heard. Yeah. And then, and then process and figure out where to go from there. And yeah. yeah, it's kinda fun. I I I really think that that's like it's one of those sales lessons that's so difficult, you know, where y you're gonna talk your way out of like the solution a lot of times if you start too soon. Like you really have to wait and you have to kinda like Let the conversation evolve and let the client get there or let the, whoever it is you're talking to let them kinda get there and then sort of take all that information, then figure out where to go from there. So Yeah. well it's kinda like a podcast interview. Like I like I have it mapped out in my head and I know where we're going, but yeah, we're getting there. So we're we're working our way there, man. so what I I like kind of all those lessons, right? You know, apply them to what you're doing today and and like starting a A second new business. you know, what what today do you think you guys are doing really well? just in general, or you know, that sort of differentiates you from the others in the market or you know, potential competitors, things like that. Like what what makes you know, Imagine Home technology like successful as opposed to kind of what you've experienced? Yeah, so what's kinda cool is like I found myself in this like luxury niche and it's not really by mistake, but it's like, I've got these clients where they're just looking for better service and it's really expensive for them to go and shop, right? So it's expensive for them to stop, start to vet different companies, have d have conversations with different people. So what I'm really trying to build is, these really sticky relationships where they essentially can feel confident in telling me what their pain point is, what it is they're trying to do. And then coming up with a solution where they feel really comfortable with it, right? And they don't have to like they don't really have to look at every line item, they don't have to look at the bid that close, and that's what I'm trying to build. And I think where what's been unique over the last couple of years is that with me sort of moving into the field and out of just being in that sales role, a lot of times in the sales role, you kind of have your customer at sort of an arm's length and you you might have a couple meetings on a site or you may have a showroom visit or whatever, but You're not really there to see how does it go when we pull up to the house? How does it go when we, first get into the house? how does each phase look? And how is our customer receiving us? And how are we how are we tr treating our client and are we creating, value as we're there, or are we doing things that may be taking away from that? And that's where I feel like I've been in a really good position or unique position where most salespeople don't get that opportunity. because just because of the way their their business is built, it just doesn't always make sense. Right. so I've been kind of looking at it through that lens as I try to dissect like, you know, what is our what's our proposal process look like? What is our billing process look

like? how like how do our guys re like how do we treat our c our clients? And like going back to one of Keith Estherly's things, like when we do the Cialdini thing, like just not parking in the driveway is like one of the like simplest things you can do. And it's one of the most effective small hacks, right? Is just not assuming that you that you can park in the driveway because every time we have, they've needed you know, client needs to move, you know, someone needs to get in, someone needs to get out, right? You're in the way. And it just creates this little like friction point that is so unnecessary. And it was so funny. I had we had a client the other day that was like, guys, I had I moved all the cars out of the driveway so you guys could park in the driveway. And I we go, Well, we never just assume we can park in the driveway. And she's like, Well you guys are nice because most people would just You know, and it but it was sort of this like validating thing, you know, where you you just hear like that one little thing that you do intentionally and it's really just it's trying to be intentional about you know about those sorts of things and it's like the ethical influence, you know, kind of rules where you're you're basically you're doing things deliberately, but not in a like not with malice or not with like a mischievous, you know, thing. It's just Look, we're trying to build trust. We're trying to lower friction. I have this concept that we've been working through that's basically like luxury is confidence. And so we kind of look across the whole business and say, where can we build confidence in not just the products or the solutions that we're providing, but just in like the service that we're providing, you know, and the experience that we're creating. And I think that as a differentiator, that's something that's kind of cool where, you know, I try not to be like technology first, but more like experience relationships and that kind of thing. And it's it makes it more fun. Yeah. You're saying all the right things, first of all. Just enl in listening you tell that I like the the word that popped into my head before you even said it was intentional. And that is if there's any you know, there's a lot of, you know, for as different, you know, geographically or how the approach is to business like there's there's certain themes or concepts that weave through what I've seen as successful integration firms, in this channel. And I that word right there, intentional, is certainly one of them. you know, being intentional about how you approach things to whether that's the project, that's the the initial media like every point of the process. Like it being intentional is a major part of that. And so awesome to hear you I like I don't even have to mention the word it it comes up organically with you. And then the other side of it too is sort of the focus on experience. And I think that is to me it's been like in observing how this channel operates, maybe the hardest shift. because so many of the integrators out there, and I know there's lots of them, but the again, the ones that are doing it well, you know, that focus on that experience, whether it's how the customer experiences you or how the customer ultimately experiences the system that you put in. And I I think so many integrators are focused because so many business owners come from Maybe this I'm bouncing around here a little bit, but maybe it's the fact that you have that sales background that so many business owners in this space come from a technical background, right? And they are the guys that were out there tinkering and, you know, building the systems and pulling the wire and like that is such you can't yeah, you can learn that, but like that having that sort of, you know, passion, not many have it, which is why this space is built by, you know, the the the channel looks the way it does. The integrators are are out there doing it, they're great at what they do. but they focus so much on the product, right? Like they talk about the the solutions, the boxes and and things like that. And that's where their focus is as opposed to that experience. And that has to be I mean, you mentioned it, it's an advantage because you guys are focusing on it and and understand it. but I you know, have seen that shift? You know, it think about your stops along the way. Do you has it always been a focus on experience or d has it been something we learned? So this is where I I feel like I I have an advantage is that I think that it's like I think people are trying it. I think that especially large businesses are trying to it's like, you we always think it's that analogy of trying to turn a big ship, right? Yeah. And if you've got a big big business that's successful and it's moving in a direction and you have this culture that's been built over a period of time, and then you try to make this change. the amount of heavy lifting you need to do to like to get it going in the right direction is so incredibly hard, right? And me, me being in the position that I am where I've got this small thing, just a couple guys on the team, and I'm involved in every aspect right now. It's basically like I'm pushing not just like a culture, but it's sort of just the way that I am and the way that I'm like the way that I communicate. and it's always through the lens of experience. It's like I had, you know, I had a meeting with the guys yesterday And we were talking through a job that we did earlier in the week where I felt like it was a miss. we just I didn't feel like I did a good enough job really understanding what the client's pain points were. I don't felt like I did a good enough job ex setting a good expectation. And then we really struggled to deliver. And not only was it exhausting for the client, but it was exhausting for us because we s like you get energized when you deliver, right? And when you deliver, like not just at like a clean install,

but like when you deliver an experience that like meets or exceeds expectations, it's fun for everybody. It's fun for the client. They can't wait to do more with you. They can't wait to pay. the the guys are feeling like, hey, I accomplished something this week. And when you miss, it's not only draining for like the team, it's draining for the the client. It's going to affect cash flow. Like it affects so many things that it's like it it's the thing that I want to reflect on like every day. Like this this is kind of like again the lens that we look at, you know, lens the lens that we look through with everything we're doing. And, it's funny. So I ran into Jeff Cole, who you had on a couple of weeks ago, at a recent I think it was at a nationwide event, but we kind of ran into each other and he's like, dude, like every time I run into you, like it's so refreshing talking to you because you're always you're like you're always talking about relationships and about experience and almost never about equipment. You know, it's never like, you know, Larry's never like walking up to people and like, Or I'm never like walking up to people and being like, Hey, I saw this thing or what did you guys see this cool new whiz bang thing? I I just it's not that interesting to me. I love the experience of the stuff that we do provides, but the the technology itself, I I'm not that it like I'm I'm not that deep with it. I guess it's like that you talk about it being a an advantage for you, especially as you start to think about and I I I kinda wanna ask about this too is like your relationship with the build and design and architect community. that they don't care about that I this is hey news flash they don't care about the technology. Like they don't care about the product you're putting in. They want it the the at the end of the day, they want it to have that clean aesthet aesthetic. They want it to match what they're trying to do and they don't want it to get in the way. No. And like that has to be I you talk about, you know, not It's not a lack of understanding, right? Because you understand what you it is that you guys, your team is creating. it's more understanding like the that doesn't have to be front and center and really today shouldn't be, especially in these elevated luxury homes. Yeah. No, and I think that like it's so I'll give you like a per a personal example. Like it's incredibly difficult, even for me, like someone that lives and breathes, like the the experience and like this is what I'm talking about with guys. I got on a call with a new pro prospective builder a few weeks ago and I went like off script. Like I went back, like I defaulted back to the product conversation and like I lost the guy. I could tell like you know, as a salesperson, you can just tell. Like when you're like, Why why did I say that? Like why why did I go down that path? Right. And I could just feel like the energy go from here to here because everything I've talked to up to that point of getting that call and getting that meeting. was experience and how can I make your clients experience better? How can I make your homes better? How can I elevate, every all of your trades by, being a great company to work with and a great team. And I just missed, you know what I mean? I'm talking about I'm saying specific brands of products and technology and it was really I think it was a good wake up call and a good humbling thing where I'm like as much as I feel like I'm gaining momentum and doing the right thing. this was an instance where I was just like, shit. you just feel like, what did I just do? and it's it was good for me, honestly, because I think that sometimes you get so geeked and then like you don't also do those calls that often. You know, it's like it's rare that you get like, you know, because how many new builders are you talking to in a month? I mean, even if you're someone that's a larger, more established person, it's like you might call these people for months and months or like try to figure out an end to get a meeting or to get a call or to get some FaceTime. But you're gonna get a shot, right? At some point they're gonna give you a shot. And when you fumble, it's like it I think some of the needs could happen. Yeah, yeah. It needs to happen, but it's like I don't know, I just thought that was like a good like yeah I maybe this is me be a little catharctic moment, but like it's putting Andy Dalton in at the goal line and watching him throw an interception on his one pass as a Philadelphia Eagle and then getting cut by the team. so that's just that. Like you don't want to do that. Yeah. No, he he says all the right things in the meetings. Like he's he's ready to You know, he's got the he got the experience, but that he that shot got woof. man. anyway, that I I really appreciate you diving into that 'cause you know it's it's such an important aspect. And I feel like we have those conversations, but they don't happen often enough, right? in sort of again it's it's a hard, you know A, it's a callus for you. Another one of those calluses that that going through that experience and and learning from it. But also, you know, the it being a default is so true to this space because it's what we're in every day. We talk about the product because we get excited about the product and and what it does. But at the end, like yes, we I guess the the shift in vision has to be yes, we get excited about the product, but it's really because of the experience that that product creates as part of a larger system or whatever it is that you are installing and just a it's a slight shift in language or or approach really in how you talk to you know, whether it's the client or the the trade partner that you're trying to get an in with. And it's again, it goes back to being intentional and sort of how you talk to them. Yeah. No, and I think like I think what's difficult on the sales side, if like if you're working for a business

where, you know, you're getting a directive from your sales manager, from your boss and they're basically like, look, you need to get X number of relationships or You need to add X number of trade partners or whatever it is. It puts so much pressure on, you as a salesperson, on the business. And it's really difficult to have the right type of conversation where you can really talk about it from that perspective. Because otherwise you're going to default to sales mode and you're going to sound like a salesperson. and a salesperson in a salesy voice, like you're not gonna build trust. You're not gonna build a relationship and it's gonna be a little off putting and it's really gonna It's it's gonna put you in a much more difficult position to either, close or create, a new you know, a new bond or a new connection. And it goes back to being authentic, right? authentic and intentional and just you know, all the buzzwords. But they're they're the right words, right? Like I you the I call them buzzwords, but like if you don't act, you know, on them or implement them in sort of how you approach things, it's it's very easy to read through and people don't like inauthenticity. So it's it's just No, it's yeah, you're absolutely right. I think it's no, it's just tough. It's really tough. I mean i again as a salesperson you just you just think you have to be talking to be making a deal, you know, whatever. And it's like, no, like just get to know the person in front of you. It's probably not gonna happen in the first conversation. And like I think that was what I went back to with that conversation with that builder, is I was like, what was my real expectation going into that call? Like yeah, let me just give you, three I got three houses ready to go and here's, hundreds of thousands of dollars in business or whatever whatever it is. It's like, we just met. why would they trust me like out of the gate, with that level of commitment or whatever? It's like Yeah. It's not really what's gonna I I think that's more of like you kinda have to set your own expectation sometimes for what you're what the purpose of the call is or again, intentionality, like what like What am I intentionally looking for? what is what is the outcome of that is real a real expectation from this? It's and almost never is it, hey, we're gonna go and just do this crazy thing together and yeah. No, makes sense, man. And in in the essence and keeping intentionality in mind, I want to be intentional of people's time. I know we can go on forever, and I like I love the fact I had some product questions planned, but knowing the the direction of the conversation, I don't want to ask them. I don't want to have a conversation about product because we you know, it's exactly what we talked about. Proof that you can have a podcast with an integrator and not talk about product. so it's a very real thing and you you know man, I appreciate you diving into it with us. And certainly you know, I have the questions here, so we'll have to ask them on a follow up at some point down the line. So this was this was incredible though. I appreciate you taking the time and And diving into it with us and yeah, man, I I look forward to having you back on. No, I love it. Thanks, Rob. I appreciate it. This episode of the Connected Design Podcast is brought to you by our partners at OASIS Residential Technology Group. OASIS is a community built for high achieving residential custom integrators. With valuable vendor partnerships, a powerful peer community, and tools and industry leading resources available from day one, Oasis helps integrators achieve more together. Learn more about Oasis Residential Technology Group at Oasis Group.org. That's OASYS Group dot org.