رونوشت کامل Frederick Smith on Black Queer M/M Romance, Higher Ed, and Authentic Representation

00:04:52.160 --> 00:04:53.600 I don't hide them from each other. 00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:58.639 So when I go to romance book festivals, I talk about the fact that I work in higher ed. 00:04:58.720 --> 00:05:09.680 And it's so funny that there's quite a few romance writers who are higher education professionals or teachers in K through 12, or I don't hide it from my students and my coworkers either. 00:05:09.759 --> 00:05:17.759 And they love the fact that I go on these book tours and book events and I write these books and they're like, wow, you have time to do all this? 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:18.560 Tell me about it. 00:05:18.639 --> 00:05:22.560 I don't know how I have time, but my writing time generally is like in the morning. 00:05:22.639 --> 00:05:24.399 Like I'm such a morning person. 00:05:24.639 --> 00:05:25.040 Nice. 00:05:25.279 --> 00:05:30.959 I usually get up at four o'clock in the morning, sometimes three thirty. 00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:38.399 And I'm like, let me get a couple hours of writing in before I go into the office, before I go on campus, or maybe before I go to the gym. 00:05:38.639 --> 00:05:43.120 And that's because, like, for me, morning, I'm very productive. 00:05:43.360 --> 00:05:46.079 To me, it's the most quiet time of the day. 00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:51.360 No one's texting me from the university with any kind of emergencies or student crises. 00:05:51.680 --> 00:06:04.000 My family might be texting me because I'm on West Coast, they're on East Coast, and our family group chats start at seven o'clock their time, and they're getting up for work, and it's four o'clock my time, but it doesn't bother me that much. 00:06:04.160 --> 00:06:05.839 I still like staying in touch with my family. 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:17.360 So I tend to be a morning writer, and that's when I find myself to be most productive in terms of getting words out, working on outlines and things like that. 00:06:17.680 --> 00:06:19.120 Oh, that's so cool. 00:06:19.439 --> 00:06:27.439 For your first book, so you said that you've been with this specific publisher for five books, but you have one more that you had before that. 00:06:27.839 --> 00:06:28.639 Two more of them too. 00:06:29.199 --> 00:06:29.360 Okay. 00:06:29.839 --> 00:06:39.360 What was that transition like going from more indie style to having something of a brand deal and a publicist deal and having a deadline, right? 00:06:39.519 --> 00:06:41.199 Because indie you can do whatever you want. 00:06:41.439 --> 00:06:44.879 And actually, to be honest, like I've always been signed to a label. 00:06:45.120 --> 00:06:46.639 My first time out the gate. 00:06:46.879 --> 00:06:51.120 So, backstory, I moved to LA right after I finished grad school. 00:06:51.199 --> 00:06:53.120 That was in the early to mid 2000s. 00:06:53.519 --> 00:06:59.279 And for fun, I took some creative writing classes at the UCLA Extension Program. 00:06:59.439 --> 00:07:04.639 And I had a teacher named Carrie Madden who really was drawn to the work that I was doing. 00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:07.439 Every week we had to write five to seven to ten pages. 00:07:07.600 --> 00:07:12.800 And so I would always write about these black gay men going to nightclubs in Los Angeles. 00:07:13.120 --> 00:07:16.160 And they were four friends looking for love and all around places. 00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:20.399 There was no one I was black or openly queer that I knew of in the class. 00:07:20.480 --> 00:07:22.959 And so they were just fascinated with these stories. 00:07:23.279 --> 00:07:27.839 That actually began to shape what was my very, very first novel down for whatever. 00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:32.879 So after this class was over, my teacher, Carrie Madden, invited me to join her writers' group. 00:07:32.959 --> 00:07:34.079 And I was like, really? 00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:37.680 And in her group, there were all these published authors. 00:07:37.759 --> 00:07:40.879 And she herself was a published author of Children's Lit. 00:07:41.040 --> 00:07:46.160 And someone who was in the writer's group, we workshop everyone's work and everything. 00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:47.120 She had a book. 00:07:47.279 --> 00:07:51.680 She wrote and writes Mysteries Set in Los Angeles, Denise Hamilton. 00:07:52.000 --> 00:07:55.759 One of her books was going from hardcover to softcover. 00:07:55.920 --> 00:07:58.560 And she was doing her launch party in New York. 00:07:59.040 --> 00:08:01.199 And she was on a label called Kensington. 00:08:01.279 --> 00:08:02.560 So she's doing her party. 00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:08.399 And I don't know how she started talking about me during her event in New York City. 00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:23.120 Apparently, during this event, her editor, John Sconamilio, who was a senior editor at Kensington, went up to her, asked for my information, emailed me on like the Monday after her event, and I sent him my stuff as he requested. 00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:27.519 And two, three weeks later, he was like, We'd like to offer you a two-book deal. 00:08:28.000 --> 00:08:28.560 Wow. 00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:29.519 Just like that. 00:08:29.759 --> 00:08:33.919 And that was after a bunch of rejections from both agents and publishers. 00:08:34.080 --> 00:08:39.120 And so I do say I'm pretty blessed and lucky, but I also did work hard. 00:08:39.360 --> 00:08:43.039 But yeah, right out the gate, I was on Kensington for two books. 00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:45.919 After the second book, so my first book was down for whatever. 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:49.840 That's the four black gay best friends looking for love and all around places in LA. 00:08:49.919 --> 00:08:52.960 And then I wrote a second book called Right Side of the Wrong Bed. 00:08:53.120 --> 00:08:55.519 After that, sales weren't what they wanted. 00:08:55.679 --> 00:08:56.399 It happens. 00:08:56.639 --> 00:09:00.159 And I had to go shopping for a new publisher and agent, as they say. 00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:04.080 And so that's how I ended

up finding Bold Strokes Books, which I'm on now. 00:09:04.159 --> 00:09:11.600 And Bold Strokes Books, for people who don't know, they're actually one of the largest publishers of Queer Lit in the United States. 00:09:11.759 --> 00:09:14.480 They're a good size publishers based in New York. 00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:24.000 And all their catalog is queer lit, whether it's sapphic romance, queer romance, they actually do more women and sapphic romance than men. 00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:26.639 As long as they keep publishing me, I'm gonna stick with them. 00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:28.720 They're very supportive, very nice. 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:32.240 And they have a great catalog of all types of queer lit. 00:09:32.320 --> 00:09:38.080 So yeah, that's a little bit about my writer's journey story and the road to publication and everything. 00:09:38.240 --> 00:09:42.559 And here I am almost 20 years later, still writing. 00:09:42.720 --> 00:09:54.559 And number seven came out this summer, and I'm really happy about where I am right now and really happy with how Love's a Contact Sport has been received and how it's doing so far. 00:09:54.799 --> 00:09:56.080 That's so awesome. 00:09:56.320 --> 00:09:57.200 Oh my goodness. 00:09:57.360 --> 00:09:58.879 Okay, I have all the questions. 00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:02.559 What inspired you to write romance? 00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:09.440 Were you sneaking your mom's romance or like some street lit? 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:12.159 Or were you just like, I love love, right? 00:10:12.320 --> 00:10:13.519 It could be any of those. 00:10:14.320 --> 00:10:15.039 It's so funny. 00:10:15.200 --> 00:10:30.159 Earlier this summer, I went to the Black Romance Book Fest and I was on a panel, and I tell the story about how I feel like every kid snuck in their mom's drawer, that drawer we know we shouldn't be going in, that's by the nightstand, by the bed. 00:10:30.320 --> 00:10:35.600 And that's where she kept a lot of her romance novels and books that I wasn't supposed to be reading. 00:10:35.840 --> 00:10:47.519 And that's where I discovered the world of Daniel Steele and Jackie Collins and this book called Scruples, I remember, and all the Hollywood Wives and everything. 00:10:47.600 --> 00:10:53.039 And so I would sneak and read them and fold back and bookmark the pages that had all the dirty parts. 00:10:53.120 --> 00:10:56.720 Because, you know, when you're a precocious kid, you want to know what adults are doing. 00:10:56.879 --> 00:11:00.159 And so that's how I first started sneaking and reading. 00:11:00.320 --> 00:11:07.840 But as I got older and had more agency and choice, I would read not necessarily romance, but like people like E. 00:11:08.080 --> 00:11:12.960 Lynn Harris, who I consider to be the godfather of MM romance. 00:11:13.519 --> 00:11:17.679 He was writing about black gay men in the South back in the 90s and 2000s. 00:11:17.840 --> 00:11:32.639 I would read people like Terry McMillan, who wrote Waiting to a Tale and How Stella Got Her Groove Back, or this writer named Eric Jerome Dickey, who at the time when he was alive, he was based in kind of LA and Oakland. 00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:37.440 And he wrote these really great kind of romance sister girl novels and everything. 00:11:37.600 --> 00:11:39.679 And those were the people that really inspired me. 00:11:39.759 --> 00:11:52.399 So that season from childhood up until like high school and adulthood, those were the kind of people I was reading and who inspired me to think about possibly a career as a writer, especially Elon Harris. 00:11:52.480 --> 00:11:56.960 I pay homage to Ellen Harris, and anytime I get a chance, he's no longer with us. 00:11:57.039 --> 00:11:59.039 He passed away in 2009. 00:11:59.279 --> 00:12:04.399 But when he was alive, he wrote over 10, maybe 12 novels. 00:12:04.639 --> 00:12:18.399 Most of them became New York Times bestsellers, writing about queer black men in the South and their relationships, whether they were open about their sexuality or whether they were closeted, or at the time they used that term down low. 00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:19.840 I don't use it now anymore. 00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:21.440 And so that's what he wrote about. 00:12:21.519 --> 00:12:26.879 And it paved the way and opened the door for many of us who are doing MM romance today. 00:12:27.120 --> 00:12:34.399 Unfortunately, a lot of people don't necessarily read Elon Harris, but a lot of the people I grew up with know Elon Harris. 00:12:34.480 --> 00:12:44.159 And I wish more people who were in the MM romance genre, whether they're readers or writers, would read his stuff because his stuff is just absolutely amazing. 00:12:44.320 --> 00:12:50.320 And it, like I said, it opened up the doors for all of us to the plethora of MM romance we have now. 00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:53.600 I tip my hat to Elon Harris all the time, every time I can. 00:12:54.080 --> 00:12:55.039 That's so cool. 00:12:55.200 --> 00:12:59.919 I actually had someone, I was like, I'm having the first man on the podcast. 00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:00.799 Any questions? 00:13:00.960 --> 00:13:04.799 And that was someone's question was Did Elan Harris inspire you? 00:13:04.879 --> 00:13:06.320 And was he part of your journey? 00:13:06.399 --> 00:13:07.039 And so I love that. 00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:08.399 I was like, I don't know this person. 00:13:08.559 --> 00:13:12.720 Let me Google because I'm newer to the MM romance. 00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:15.039 I am a bisexual woman. 00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:20.159 I tend to read sapphic or just MF or whatever polyamorous. 00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:28.080 And I also want to be very intentional about the kinds of MM romances that I consume. 00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:48.960 And I think that's like a very big conversation right now, especially with a lot of women getting MM deals when there are incredible men who are writing their lived experiences and their queer stories and the stories of people who look like

them and lots of feelings, lots of thoughts. 00:13:49.120 --> 00:13:51.360 I'm sure you have them as well. 00:13:51.600 --> 00:13:55.039 But that's something that I've just I've always wanted to be really intentional about. 00:13:55.200 --> 00:13:59.919 And so I'm newer to discovering the men who are writing these incredible stories. 00:14:00.159 --> 00:14:03.440 And then later I know I'm gonna have on Adib. 00:14:04.559 --> 00:14:05.679 Oh, Adib Qaram. 00:14:06.799 --> 00:14:07.039 Yes. 00:14:07.360 --> 00:14:08.559 From Kansas City, yeah. 00:14:08.720 --> 00:14:10.159 Yes, Adib Karam. 00:14:10.240 --> 00:14:14.080 I'm gonna have him on the podcast talking about his books. 00:14:14.320 --> 00:14:17.120 And he has a new one that's coming out later this year. 00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:25.360 And so I wanted to make sure that giving space for the men who are writing their experiences, who are writing their stories, yeah. 00:14:25.440 --> 00:14:38.399 I'm so excited to finally have some men who who can share these stories and introduce my audience to them in uh reading books that are, I don't want to say ethically made, but it kind of feels absolutely. 00:14:38.559 --> 00:14:44.000 And I thank you so much for making space for men writing MM Romance to come on. 00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:53.919 So while I do think that anyone can write whatever they want and should be able to, I think that that write also comes with a sense of responsibility. 00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:54.480 Right. 00:14:54.720 --> 00:15:15.039 I know, for example, if I ever plan to write anything that doesn't relate to any of my identities or lived experiences, I'm going to do all the interviews and immerse myself ethically within communities and have people read my materials and make sure I'm doing research. 00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:21.840 And I'm also understanding like kind of the politics that shape that identity and those people and everything. 00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:26.480 That's if I were ever going to write people who are not of any identities that I am. 00:15:26.559 --> 00:15:54.799 And I think that's a responsibility that all writers have is of course we have the agency and the right to write whatever we want, but I think it should be done with some sense of responsibility and an ethic of care and an ethic of, you know what, I'm going to write people in realistic ways and non-stereotypical ways and in nuanced ways, the same way that I, writer, I, this is big I, would want to be written about and everything. 00:15:55.039 --> 00:16:00.240 And like academically and professionally, I am a proponent of what they call own voices. 00:16:00.399 --> 00:16:07.759 I think that's so important because, you know, throughout history, so many communities have been written about, researched about. 00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:16.879 People immersed themselves in their communities and taken from them and made their whole academic or writing careers based on studying the other. 00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:27.519 And I think that it's important for people who are considered the other or even not the other to have that sense of agency to be able to write about themselves and their own stories through their own lenses. 00:16:27.679 --> 00:16:28.879 I think that's important. 00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:35.919 And this doesn't discount anything from anyone choosing to write MM romance or sapphic romance. 00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:43.519 I just know for myself as a cis, queer black man, that I wouldn't delve into writing sapphic romance. 00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:46.480 I don't think that's my ministry, my lane. 00:16:46.639 --> 00:16:54.720 And I respect the women who do write it because I am going to make the assumption that they know their stories better than I ever would. 00:16:54.879 --> 00:17:08.319 And so that's the kind of respect I would want to give to the industry and to writing is that I want to stay on my lane and write what I know and write responsibly the people who I know and the communities I've been a part of. 00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:13.599 And again, that doesn't take away from people who want to delve into writing about other communities. 00:17:13.759 --> 00:17:18.880 But I just think it comes with a sense of both having the right and a sense of responsibility as well. 00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:21.200 Yeah, that responsibility is so important. 00:17:21.440 --> 00:17:25.119 We interviewed Sade Renee. 00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:31.680 I want to say I might mispronounce her last name, but she's on the podcast a couple episodes ago. 00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:42.240 And she has a character who's an indigenous character in her most recent release, On Thin Ice, which is a dark hockey Y2's romance. 00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:52.960 And what I loved is that at the beginning she put here are all your potential triggers and content warnings, etc. 00:17:53.680 --> 00:17:56.559 And here are all the places where I did research. 00:17:56.720 --> 00:18:05.440 Here are the people that I had, you know, Alpha read this, who I consulted with to ensure that I'm reflecting this person. 00:18:05.599 --> 00:18:10.640 She's a black woman, reflecting indigen this indigenous character in an ethical way. 00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:16.079 And anything that is in here that is a misrepresentation is 100% my own fault. 00:18:16.880 --> 00:18:17.759 Absolutely. 00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:22.319 And I feel like I heard Kennedy Ryan share something like that either at a panel. 00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:39.440 It might have been Black Romance Book Fest or a podcast recently, where she talked about the fact that even though she there are times when she does research and writes about multiple communities and identities, that she takes full responsibility for doing the work and for anything that she may get wrong. 00:18:39.599 --> 00:18:40.640 She rarely gets it wrong. 00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:42.160 She doesn't get it wrong. 00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:44.960 There's some mothers who do get it wrong. 00:18:45.200 -->

00:18:48.720 I don't know who they are, but they know who they are when they get it wrong. 00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:52.000 So I just think it's just about just trying to do the right thing. 00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:56.559 And I know some people really want to delve into I want to write diversely. 00:18:56.640 --> 00:18:59.759 I want to write about all these characters and communities because I feel like they need it. 00:18:59.839 --> 00:19:03.119 And I'm like, they may need it, but how about let them write it? 00:19:03.279 --> 00:19:03.599 Right. 00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:06.240 And let them have their voice and agency. 00:19:06.400 --> 00:19:12.640 And again, it's just not taking away from people who want to have creative license and write creatively or anything like that. 00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:13.680 Not at all. 00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:14.240 Yeah. 00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:17.599 And most of the time, if we do a little bit of digging, right? 00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:20.799 And sometimes it can take it depending on how our algorithm is algorithming. 00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:32.000 If we do just a smidge more digging, we can find the authors that we can support, that we can share, that we can, there's no competition with the amount of books that people read in a year. 00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:33.279 There's no competition. 00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:40.960 Like we're all collaborators here that you could be saying, hey, I I would love for you guys to check this person's book out, right? 00:19:41.119 --> 00:19:45.680 That has this lived experience to just be more community-centered about it. 00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:46.160 Yeah. 00:19:46.319 --> 00:19:57.599 Own voices, I think, is so incredibly important, not just from racial or sexual perspectives, but also everything from childhood drama to grief, right? 00:19:57.680 --> 00:20:03.599 There's so many different dynamics that people like to just throw things into their story for the wow factor for whatever. 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:04.400 I get it. 00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:14.160 Craft, maybe, but you still have, like you said, a responsibility to the reader and to the community for that. 00:20:14.319 --> 00:20:17.519 Because once you put it out into the universe, it no longer belongs to you. 00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:19.119 It no longer belongs to you. 00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:29.759 And however people review it or check you on it, you have to we all have to be responsible for how what we put into the world is received and also be open to the feedback as well. 00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:36.880 Or also say develop a thick skin, but also be open to the feedback as well, especially if we get something wrong. 00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:39.440 So I try not to be wrong on anything. 00:20:41.440 --> 00:20:42.960 Wait, what's that TLC song? 00:20:43.039 --> 00:20:45.119 I stick to the rivers and the lakes that I'm used to. 00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:46.079 Right. 00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:49.039 You won't, you're not gonna catch me slipping. 00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:51.440 No, don't go chasing waterfalls. 00:20:51.519 --> 00:20:52.319 I'm not part of. 00:20:54.400 --> 00:20:55.519 Oh, exactly. 00:20:55.680 --> 00:20:57.680 Okay, so I read One and Done. 00:20:57.759 --> 00:21:00.480 Oh my goodness, I love this book so much. 00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:01.039 Thank you. 00:21:01.759 --> 00:21:02.319 Thank you. 00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:21.359 There is something, and I feel like this is just this is my catnip is when someone meets someone at a bar or whatever, they have their little one night stand, or maybe a huge one night stand, a weekend long, whatever. 00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:26.240 They have their one night stand and then they kind of go their separate ways. 00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:31.440 Life is lifing, and then something smacks them together. 00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:34.400 Like it's messy. 00:21:35.119 --> 00:21:38.000 Like we're gonna be working on the same project at work. 00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:42.240 I didn't know you were a consultant for my university that I work at. 00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:45.039 And bam, here we are in the boardroom. 00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:48.480 Like Dustin and Taylor discovered in one and done. 00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:59.759 And they're like, Oh, you're the person reviewing our university, and I'm the university vice president who's being reviewed, and we like each other, yet you're in charge of my. 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:07.519 Career and the direction of my career because whatever grade you give me is going to decide where my career goes in the future. 00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:15.599 And so that's one of the central conflicts in one and done, which I call my black, queer, higher ed, Bay Area romance novel. 00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:24.240 These two people who have this neat disaster out of a Beyonce themed drag show in the Castro and hit it off and don't hit it off. 00:22:24.319 --> 00:22:32.079 And then they're in this boardroom, and oh, we gotta work together for three months, and I don't like you, but I do like you, and things like that. 00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:35.279 So, yes, I had a lot of fun writing one and done. 00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:39.599 And that book actually came from a real life experience, like I shared earlier. 00:22:39.759 --> 00:22:45.519 I do work in a university, and our university did go through an accreditation process. 00:22:45.759 --> 00:22:48.720 So this is where reality pivots in the fiction. 00:22:48.880 --> 00:22:53.920 So I was sitting on this, they had so many committee meetings on campus during this review process. 00:22:54.079 --> 00:23:01.359 And so this one committee I was on, we had this reviewer in, and he was asking a whole bunch of irritating questions. 00:23:01.599 --> 00:23:09.039 You know, sometimes when people ask you questions and they know what the answer is, but they're trying to get you to either flub up or mess up with something. 00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:10.799 And so he was just so annoying. 00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:14.480 But

then in the back of my head, I was like, oh my God, this guy is so gorgeous. 00:23:14.559 --> 00:23:24.400 And what would happen if during the course of his consulting with our university, I ran at him on the street and I just happened to fall into his bed or something like that. 00:23:24.559 --> 00:23:25.599 What would that be like? 00:23:25.759 --> 00:23:33.759 And so this is going through my mind as he's asking us all these irritating higher ed assessment questions and everything. 00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:35.680 And I was like, let me write this down. 00:23:35.920 --> 00:23:42.720 This would be because I had never really done a true higher ed set romance novel. 00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:45.359 And so that one meeting was the basis. 00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:47.519 And of course, I never saw him again after that. 00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:54.480 And we didn't have any kind of meet cute or happily ever after, but I did think he was so fine. 00:23:54.880 --> 00:24:02.400 And that was the basis for creating that character, Dustin, who was the consultant reviewing the university, etc. 00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:03.519 So yeah. 00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:21.680 And for that book, you mentioned how that story kind of came to you. 00:24:21.839 --> 00:24:24.240 What about for Love as a Contact Sport? 00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:25.680 How did that story come to you? 00:24:25.839 --> 00:24:32.480 Was it like, all right, I gotta get my publisher another one, or was it like, I'm inspired, here we go? 00:24:33.039 --> 00:24:34.400 Okay, so a little bit of both. 00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:37.200 Owed another book to Boldstrokes books. 00:24:37.519 --> 00:24:49.359 And so Love as a Contact Sport, my pitch for that is it's a black, queer, second chance college reunion male-male contemporary romance novel. 00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:54.240 And it follows two people who knew each other 20 years ago when they were in college. 00:24:54.400 --> 00:25:00.720 One was a college basketball player, and one was kind of like the campus, I'll say the campus poster boy. 00:25:00.799 --> 00:25:05.519 He did student government, was an RA, um, was a tour guide, et cetera. 00:25:05.920 --> 00:25:17.920 And thanks to the miracle of having single rooms on a college campus, they were able to have a secret relationship for a while while they were in college and they had fun in that single room. 00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:20.559 But it didn't work out at the time. 00:25:20.720 --> 00:25:32.400 And 20 years later, the two characters encounter each other at a college reunion event where they're both getting awards, and they hear all these great things that each other has done over the past 20 years. 00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:37.920 And so they finally have to have a sit-down after this award and talk about what happened then. 00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:44.400 And then it kind of helps them kind of see that old feelings don't die fast. 00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:48.640 Now, I know you have some strong feelings about second chances. 00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:52.079 I listened to the podcast and I agree with you. 00:25:52.160 --> 00:26:03.359 I think second chance and age gap are two of the most controversial tropes out there because it does come with a lot of, I don't want to say stigma, but it does raise some the hairs on the back of people's necks. 00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:11.359 How are you gonna give someone a second chance where either something went wrong, a person did someone wrong, or something like that? 00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:27.039 I say yes, comma, and so I think the ethical way a second chance can really work is if one, everyone has done some sort of internal work, either therapy, a lot of reflection, a lot of growing up, etc. 00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:30.000 I think two, no coercion. 00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:35.599 No one should feel coerced or guilted or threatened with a second chance. 00:26:35.839 --> 00:26:36.319 Not at all. 00:26:36.400 --> 00:26:38.160 It has to be totally consensual. 00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:55.359 But then three, I think that there has to be some total, what do they call it, redemption and forgiveness and really showing someone I have changed, I have done the work, and I am willing to walk on water to show you how much I've changed. 00:26:55.599 --> 00:27:04.240 That's how I think a second chance can work well, despite all the romance drama that could have happened, years ago, things like that. 00:27:04.400 --> 00:27:23.519 And so that's what happens in love as a contact sport between Rennie Ross and Brent King is that they realize in their 40s after living life and doing their own thing that they still have the same spark that they did in college, or maybe not the same, but they have a spark that's more adult and more mature now. 00:27:23.599 --> 00:27:31.039 Because 20s and 40s, that gives a lot of room for growth and a lot of room for reflection and a lot of room for therapy. 00:27:31.119 --> 00:27:34.720 And both these characters have done some internal work with therapy. 00:27:34.880 --> 00:27:39.440 I think that's what makes this romance a beautiful story to me. 00:27:39.519 --> 00:27:39.680 Yeah. 00:27:39.920 --> 00:27:48.319 And people who I have run into over the months also share some similar sentiments as well that this is a second chance they can vibe with. 00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:49.759 And again, this is me knowing. 00:27:49.839 --> 00:27:57.119 So I was like, when I write this, I know it's gonna irk some people because some people are just totally, they're like, I'm not picking up a second chance romance novel. 00:27:57.279 --> 00:27:58.799 How can I get back together? 00:27:58.960 --> 00:28:01.359 But I think people who do it well do it really well. 00:28:01.440 --> 00:28:06.559 Like Kennedy Ryan, I think, is the queen of perfect second chance romance novels. 00:28:06.799 --> 00:28:08.559 And there's many others too. 00:28:08.799 --> 00:28:15.359 I think there's some merit and possibility, even though it's it can be very, I

know it can be a controversial trope. 00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:17.359 Yes, definitely. 00:28:17.519 --> 00:28:29.119 Everyone go check out that episode from the last season that I did with Lisa Baben Library when she came on, because I started having friends on, like, hey, let's talk about your favorite trope. 00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:34.559 And she was like second chance, and I was like, oof, oof, I don't know how I feel about it. 00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:36.079 I've got Rex, sure. 00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:38.000 But I don't know how I feel about it. 00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:39.759 I love what you said about your three things. 00:28:39.839 --> 00:28:43.599 These have to be non-negotiables for a second chance to work. 00:28:43.839 --> 00:28:50.240 And I think that having that gap in them being separated helps too, right? 00:28:50.559 --> 00:28:53.200 Even thinking about my husband and I met. 00:28:53.519 --> 00:29:02.799 I was 21, he was 25, and then now I'm I'm gonna be 35, he'll be 39. 00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:09.519 And the people we were then completely different than the people we are today. 00:29:09.680 --> 00:29:15.920 We've been married for 10 years, we have two kids, we're going through life together. 00:29:16.079 --> 00:29:17.680 We've been at the lowest of the lowest. 00:29:17.839 --> 00:29:25.440 I just said to him the other day, I was like, Remember when we first moved in together and all we had was a mattress and a TV on a box. 00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:26.640 That was it. 00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:29.119 And he was like, Oh yeah, good times. 00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:36.960 I think both in real life and in romances, like, I would like to see more of that like growing together in a romance happen. 00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:49.839 I know the object is they end up together happily ever after, but I think there's something about that both in real life and in a oh, we'll love to see that like in a romance where a couple looks back and look at our humble beginnings. 00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:50.079 Right. 00:29:50.319 --> 00:30:02.480 Look at us when we were struggling to make ends meet and to buy groceries, and we only had one car and we both had to share it, and then to see how couples evolve over the years. 00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:03.759 I think a lot about that. 00:30:03.839 --> 00:30:05.680 Like I'm currently not partnered. 00:30:05.839 --> 00:30:11.359 I have cousins and really good friends who've been in both short-term and long-term partnerships. 00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:19.599 And especially when I look at my cousins who I grew up with in Detroit, and I'm like, wow, y'all have been together in y'all's marriages for 25 years, almost 30 years. 00:30:19.759 --> 00:30:26.559 And I remember the little small houses and apartments y'all had, and now you've got these big houses, and you just grew into it. 00:30:26.640 --> 00:30:39.680 And I think that's so beautiful to see that journey, both in real life, and I wish it could fit and maybe it could fit with side characters in a romance and see how people have grown and built their kingdoms together and everything. 00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:44.960 I think that to me, that that's a beautiful trajectory to see in people that we know and love. 00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:51.920 And so yeah, you're giving me some ideas of revisiting some previous characters as side characters. 00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:52.720 Yes. 00:30:53.039 --> 00:30:56.079 I want to say, Monique Fisher, I interviewed her. 00:30:56.240 --> 00:30:58.480 She's I think she's after your episode. 00:30:58.559 --> 00:31:00.240 So everybody keep a lookout for that. 00:31:00.400 --> 00:31:02.319 Stay subscribed to the podcast, etc. 00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:07.519 She has an epic romance that spans I think she said 15 years. 00:31:07.839 --> 00:31:08.240 Oh wow. 00:31:08.559 --> 00:31:12.319 And so hers is like a what happens after the happily ever after. 00:31:12.559 --> 00:31:22.319 So she has an epic novel where she wanted to explore that idea of like the ups and the downs, and like what happens after the and they kiss and yay. 00:31:23.920 --> 00:31:25.039 What happens after that? 00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:27.039 Because life happens, right? 00:31:27.680 --> 00:31:31.759 And how do you keep that happily ever after going through the ups and downs? 00:31:32.400 --> 00:31:33.119 Exactly. 00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:36.240 So I'll have the link for that book in the show notes. 00:31:36.400 --> 00:31:41.119 I don't remember the title off the top of my head, but Monique Fisher was the one who has that one. 00:31:41.839 --> 00:31:42.400 So good. 00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:42.960 Okay. 00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:45.920 So what are you doing next? 00:31:46.079 --> 00:31:47.200 What are you working on? 00:31:47.359 --> 00:31:52.960 I know you go to quite a few events, you're on quite a few podcasts, but we're in fall of 2026. 00:31:53.279 --> 00:31:54.799 What do you have going on? 00:31:55.440 --> 00:32:00.400 So I have a novel due in fall, knock on wood, that I get it done. 00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:03.519 And that's slated to be out in June 2027. 00:32:03.920 --> 00:32:09.759 So I'm a sucker for and I'm a punisher for myself trying to tackle tropes that people don't like. 00:32:09.920 --> 00:32:16.079 So I'm actually looking at an age gap romance, but so it's a more age-appropriate age gap. 00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:24.960 Like one character is in like their upper 40s, maybe low 50s, and one's like in their upper 30s, low 40s, and they're mismatched. 00:32:25.039 --> 00:32:34.480 One is like this academia, and the other one is like a former child and teen actor heartthrob who now has to work at the post office. 00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:36.160 Go figure. 00:32:36.319 --> 00:32:42.960 Once the stardom goes away and the looks and you're replaced by a younger person in Hollywood, you gotta go get a regular job. 00:32:43.039 --> 00:32:51.920 And so it's I'm creating this world between this academic and this former teen adult heartthrob who

has to work a regular job. 00:32:52.000 --> 00:33:03.119 And they're mismatched in so many ways, including the age gap piece, including the different levels of kind of education and different levels of interest and things like that. 00:33:03.279 --> 00:33:09.680 So I'm working on that and trying to get that in by fall for June 2027 release. 00:33:09.759 --> 00:33:12.720 And then I have a few events in the fall and winter. 00:33:12.960 --> 00:33:17.359 In the fall, I'm at this event in Milwaukee called From Milwaukee with Love. 00:33:17.680 --> 00:33:19.839 I'm at the Burbank Book Fest. 00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:26.319 Oh, there's a cool Pride and Pros event in Atlanta happening in mid-October 2026. 00:33:26.559 --> 00:33:27.200 I think I saw that. 00:33:27.279 --> 00:33:28.000 Yeah, that's so cool. 00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:34.960 In November, and then there's a lot coming up in 2027. 00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:37.680 I don't know why I overbooked myself for all these events. 00:33:38.960 --> 00:33:39.519 I love it. 00:33:39.599 --> 00:33:43.039 And it's also, so I'm like, okay, I gotta write and go to events at the same time. 00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:51.759 But really, part of it is just one of my goals I set for myself with one and done and with love as a contact sport is I really want to grow my readership. 00:33:51.920 --> 00:33:59.119 And one of the ways of doing that to me is one, I think going on podcasts is so fun and so cool because they live forever. 00:33:59.279 --> 00:33:59.359 Right. 00:33:59.680 --> 00:34:01.119 So someone can always discover you. 00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:05.200 And one of the things, like with romance novels, is discoverability. 00:34:05.359 --> 00:34:10.960 Like it's hard to be discovered because there's so many options and so many writers, which I think is great. 00:34:11.199 --> 00:34:18.559 And then I think that going to events is important too, because it puts all of us in the face of other readers. 00:34:18.719 --> 00:34:22.960 I'm not shy at all, but I'm also not overzealous with readers either. 00:34:23.119 --> 00:34:30.719 I'm not shy to talk about my books, whether it's an audience that I think would read it or a demographic that I think would or would not read it. 00:34:30.880 --> 00:34:35.760 I was listening to Beverly Jenkins on a podcast, Beverly Jenkins, Black Historical Fiction. 00:34:35.840 --> 00:34:39.519 I consider her the godmother of black historical romance. 00:34:39.760 --> 00:34:53.119 She was talking about how it's important for those of us who identify as black, not only to do black romance kind of book fest and everything, but to be at other book fests as well, because they need to see us. 00:34:53.280 --> 00:34:53.519 Right. 00:34:53.840 --> 00:35:02.960 They need to be exposed to us because if they don't see our faces, then they will not even think about picking up our books necessarily. 00:35:03.119 --> 00:35:08.480 And that kind of hit me in the head, like, okay, yes, I love my queer book con events. 00:35:08.559 --> 00:35:20.639 I like my black queer events, and I need to also go to some that maybe aren't targeting those demographics because we have a responsibility to help those readers discover us and to discover our peers as well. 00:35:20.800 --> 00:35:24.639 So when I go to events, I don't just talk about me, but I'm always coming up with a list. 00:35:24.719 --> 00:35:26.400 I'm like, have you read Carmen Lee? 00:35:26.480 --> 00:35:27.760 Have you read Mika James? 00:35:27.920 --> 00:35:31.280 Have you read Julian Winters or Rashid Darden? 00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:38.320 So I'm always rattling off a list of people that people should be reading or that I would like for them to read and discover as well. 00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:39.920 I know we're all in this together. 00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:42.079 We all should be supporting each other. 00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:49.280 And I'm not just in it for me and my books, but I also want to lift and want all of us to uplift each other and everything. 00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:50.880 I think that's really important. 00:35:51.280 --> 00:36:00.880 And so to that end, I never feel like I'm in competition with anyone or that I never get jealous or anything when people have opportunities. 00:36:01.199 --> 00:36:06.079 I'm like, oh, what happens to them is gonna happen to all of us one day and there's room for all of us. 00:36:06.400 --> 00:36:08.320 Yes, I really think so. 00:36:08.559 --> 00:36:11.199 And it's hard to, right? 00:36:11.360 --> 00:36:17.519 Being the only black person in the room or being the only queer person in the room and almost feeling tokenized, right? 00:36:17.599 --> 00:36:19.920 There's a lot of feelings of that can happen. 00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:22.480 And so we don't want to discount that. 00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:28.880 And I know that there are so many people doing work also on the back end, right? 00:36:29.039 --> 00:36:36.000 To ensure that events are better sourced and have more variety of people. 00:36:36.239 --> 00:36:40.800 A lot of people that I know that are hosting events, especially in the next year or so. 00:36:41.119 --> 00:36:48.639 I live in North Carolina, so I try to go to ones that are local to me just because driving long distances is not fun and I don't like flying. 00:36:48.960 --> 00:36:56.320 So I try to do the ones that are close to me, and I'm right in between Raleigh and Charlotte, so it works perfectly. 00:36:56.559 --> 00:37:01.599 But a lot of the events that we have over here, I go and I'm like, where are the black people at? 00:37:01.760 --> 00:37:06.159 Let me find them, let me talk to them, let me make sure that we're I'm buying their books. 00:37:06.239 --> 00:37:23.119 And so I think that we as readers can do better by finding the people who are of our either race or sexuality or whatever, or people who, if you're a white reader and you're wanting to diversify your bookshelf and you want to buy more books, but you're not really sure where to

begin. 00:37:23.840 --> 00:37:28.159 Going to these book cons and bookfests are a great place to start. 00:37:28.400 --> 00:37:32.719 And I know there are people that are doing work to try to make sure that they're a lot more diverse. 00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:35.199 So kudos to those folks as well. 00:37:35.360 --> 00:37:36.559 It's so hard. 00:37:37.519 --> 00:37:38.320 So hard. 00:37:38.559 --> 00:37:40.480 And at the same time, it's so easy. 00:37:40.639 --> 00:37:47.360 Like these devices that we walk around with 20, 30 years ago, they were these monsters on top of the table. 00:37:47.840 --> 00:37:49.760 And they cost thousands of dollars. 00:37:50.000 --> 00:37:52.000 So we have a resource right here. 00:37:52.320 --> 00:38:02.559 We have so many great search engines where so work at a college, and I always talk to students about I'm like, I really want you to develop your skills around resourcefulness. 00:38:02.719 --> 00:38:02.960 Right. 00:38:03.199 --> 00:38:09.039 I want you to figure out how to find answers because if you know how to find an answer, you're never gonna be lost. 00:38:09.199 --> 00:38:23.119 And so there's times when I want to say, it's so easy to find Latin A writers and queer authors who write romance because in a search engine, all you gotta do is but I think it's about having the mindset to think, who am I missing and who am I not reading? 00:38:23.280 --> 00:38:29.519 But I think it's and maybe it's just me, but I'm like, and maybe because I'm in this bubble in academia too. 00:38:29.679 --> 00:38:31.679 So I do admit that. 00:38:31.840 --> 00:38:35.199 But I'm like, all it takes is just to I go down rabbit holes all the time. 00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:46.239 Like the weirdest thought will come in my head, and I'm like, let me see if there's books on Native Americans set in Wyoming, written by Native Americans, and I'll go down that rabbit hole or things like that. 00:38:46.400 --> 00:38:51.760 But I understand that everyone has a comfort zone and everyone has what they know. 00:38:52.320 --> 00:39:01.119 And I one of the questions I always like to ask myself is what is it that I don't know, or who am I not seeing that I need to see? 00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:15.119 I think a lot about that when I plan events, and I hope that event planners are kind of thinking like there's a couple events I'm coming up, I'm going to, and I see I'm the only either male or male presenting person or only black person. 00:39:15.199 --> 00:39:19.840 I'm like, I know these event planners have to know other writers. 00:39:20.880 --> 00:39:24.880 But then again, I'm like, I have to give grace and say maybe they don't or don't know where to look. 00:39:25.039 --> 00:39:27.440 And so but I'm not going to do free labor for people either. 00:39:27.599 --> 00:39:34.400 So here's my DEI consulting packages for these event hosts. 00:39:34.639 --> 00:39:37.679 I know every time someone asks you, can I pick your brain? 00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:39.360 We joke in our world. 00:39:41.519 --> 00:39:43.679 Means that's$300 an hour. 00:39:43.920 --> 00:39:44.400 Right. 00:39:44.719 --> 00:39:45.280 Exactly. 00:39:45.519 --> 00:39:48.079 Yes, you can for$300 an hour. 00:39:48.320 --> 00:39:48.639 Yeah. 00:39:48.800 --> 00:39:49.599 Oh my goodness. 00:39:49.840 --> 00:39:54.320 So I'm curious for people who are like, okay, so you're getting on lots of podcasts, you're going to events. 00:39:54.559 --> 00:39:57.199 What is that first step for putting yourself out there? 00:39:57.360 --> 00:40:01.119 I know a lot of writers and readers can be introverts. 00:40:01.280 --> 00:40:03.280 I myself an introvert. 00:40:03.840 --> 00:40:13.199 The idea of going to some of these really bigger events, like, as much as I would absolutely love to go to Black Romance Book Fest, I know myself. 00:40:13.360 --> 00:40:16.079 I heard they've got rooms separate and everything. 00:40:16.400 --> 00:40:28.239 But like my kids play game time at MMA, and I have to put my earplugs in because like I'm I get way too overstimulated and I'm literally sitting in a chair, not doing anything. 00:40:28.480 --> 00:40:29.599 So I know myself. 00:40:29.679 --> 00:40:32.159 I know that amount of people, probably not best for me. 00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:35.599 Cheering everybody on, buying everybody's books, etc. 00:40:35.840 --> 00:40:37.119 That's what I can do my part. 00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:40.719 And going to these smaller events, going to authors, book tours, right? 00:40:40.880 --> 00:40:42.400 That kind of stuff, those smaller ones. 00:40:42.559 --> 00:40:45.360 But for people who are like, all right, I want to maybe get on more podcasts. 00:40:45.440 --> 00:40:49.280 I want to find ways that I can talk about my books with other people. 00:40:49.440 --> 00:40:57.920 I want to pitch myself to be at these events to be maybe the only black person in the room because I know that my people are looking for me also. 00:40:58.400 --> 00:41:00.400 How do you tend to get started with that? 00:41:00.639 --> 00:41:03.039 Yeah, I think starting local is great. 00:41:03.199 --> 00:41:08.400 So local independent bookstores for any author or any event that comes there. 00:41:08.639 --> 00:41:13.039 Authors are always wanting people to come to their events because they don't want to talk to an empty audience. 00:41:13.280 --> 00:41:21.440 I offer to people to look at what their local store is offering and just go sit in the audience because it can be a great way to network with other readers. 00:41:21.599 --> 00:41:27.280 And most readers, I have a feeling, are have this desire to be a writer as well. 00:41:27.440 --> 00:41:29.280 So it's a great place to network. 00:41:29.440 --> 00:41:34.960 And then if going in person to smaller events isn't someone's ministry, online has so many. 00:41:35.199 --> 00:41:38.079 I go down YouTube rabbit hole all the time. 00:41:38.239 --> 00:41:45.440 I'm like, I want to hear Beverly Jenkins today, or I want to hear

Rebecca Weatherspoon, or I want to hear Kennedy Ryan today. 00:41:45.519 --> 00:41:53.440 And so I'll just go on YouTube and look up interviews by people and just listen to them talk and listen to their advice and everything. 00:41:53.679 --> 00:42:00.480 And then the other thing I'll share is I think that a lot of community colleges offer either low cost or free creative writing classes. 00:42:00.639 --> 00:42:11.119 And so that's a great place to build local networks and meet people who are in the area who could be great friends and allies and writing partners. 00:42:11.280 --> 00:42:17.119 And maybe eventually you'll meet a buddy who will want to go to a book fest together. 00:42:17.440 --> 00:42:20.480 Although I'm at I I've been meeting a lot of people who are like, you know what? 00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:21.360 Chuck it. 00:42:21.440 --> 00:42:22.800 I'm going by myself. 00:42:22.960 --> 00:42:25.760 And they found it to be the most exhilarating time. 00:42:25.920 --> 00:42:34.159 I know everyone has their own way of kind of getting out there and meeting people within the the book world and everything. 00:42:34.320 --> 00:42:40.559 But start local, I think, is a great place and start local with your local independent bookstore. 00:42:40.800 --> 00:42:41.039 Yes. 00:42:41.199 --> 00:42:42.400 Oh, that's such good advice. 00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:44.719 I'm even thinking like my library. 00:42:45.119 --> 00:42:47.360 The library is also great, right? 00:42:47.599 --> 00:42:56.159 They have tons of either author events or activities or workshops or things that they've got, like even for adults. 00:42:56.320 --> 00:43:03.199 We went to the library today and they had a sewing, an adult sewing class going on in the adult maker space. 00:43:03.679 --> 00:43:07.679 And there were like maybe six or anywhere from six to ten people in there. 00:43:07.920 --> 00:43:10.159 And I was like, I want to go. 00:43:11.119 --> 00:43:13.679 Go to a maker space and learn how to sew. 00:43:14.079 --> 00:43:14.480 Yes. 00:43:14.639 --> 00:43:21.840 My local library here in San Francisco did or earlier in the summer, they were doing a how to fix your bike workshop. 00:43:21.920 --> 00:43:24.000 And so they would have people bring their bikes. 00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:25.840 And I'm like, at the local library? 00:43:26.079 --> 00:43:29.840 When they had all the tools out and was had an instructor showing the basics. 00:43:29.920 --> 00:43:33.840 I'm like, wow, what a great way to kick off someone's summertime. 00:43:33.920 --> 00:43:37.920 And I know in the fall, there's all sorts of I'm like cooking demonstrations at the library. 00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:38.480 So cool. 00:43:39.119 --> 00:43:42.000 Yeah, local libraries, I think, are just such a great resource. 00:43:42.159 --> 00:43:46.400 And I want more people to use them because that's where our tax dollars go. 00:43:46.480 --> 00:43:54.320 And it's also where we can give voice to show governments and politicians we support our libraries and librarians. 00:43:54.559 --> 00:43:55.519 Yes, 100%. 00:43:55.920 --> 00:43:58.480 I know there are some authors too that are librarians. 00:43:58.559 --> 00:44:03.199 So shout out to all the library workers as well doing the work out here. 00:44:03.280 --> 00:44:13.119 And I have a friend, she's on the board of a library, and goodness, the things that she has to go through with her local stuff just to get funding or just to get things passed. 00:44:13.360 --> 00:44:17.599 What I just want to tell people as well that utilizing a library helps authors too. 00:44:17.679 --> 00:44:24.239 So when books are checked out, whether it's audio or electronic or the physical, it helps out authors as well. 00:44:24.400 --> 00:44:28.960 So it keeps the books in circulation and it counts toward authors' counts. 00:44:29.039 --> 00:44:31.280 So I know that books are such an investment. 00:44:31.360 --> 00:44:39.840 And during this economy, sometimes people have to choose$20 for a book or do I buy lunch for a couple days for my kids? 00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:42.400 And so that's why I'm a big proponent of libraries. 00:44:42.559 --> 00:44:45.599 Because I know not every it's such a privilege to be able to buy books. 00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:47.280 And so I don't take that for granted. 00:44:47.360 --> 00:44:52.159 And so I always share my thanks and gratitude with anyone who makes that choice to buy a book. 00:44:52.239 --> 00:45:01.599 Because I know that sometimes it can be the choice of do I buy this book for my own pleasure or do I buy gas for a couple days to get around? 00:45:02.159 --> 00:45:02.960 Yeah, so important. 00:45:03.119 --> 00:45:05.119 Everybody go support your library. 00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:08.400 And where can people connect with you? 00:45:08.719 --> 00:45:12.559 Social media, letting us know where you're gonna be and all that stuff. 00:45:12.719 --> 00:45:16.800 And then where can we buy your brand new book that just came out this summer? 00:45:17.119 --> 00:45:18.880 Love is a contacts board. 00:45:19.119 --> 00:45:24.800 So you can either Google Frederick Smith Love is a contacts board, and one of my socials will come up. 00:45:24.960 --> 00:45:28.480 I use the handle F Smith827. 00:45:28.800 --> 00:45:30.400 Those are the numbers, 827. 00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:32.880 That's my birth date, 827. 00:45:33.119 --> 00:45:38.079 That's where you can find me on whether it's Threads, Blue Sky, TikTok, et cetera. 00:45:38.320 --> 00:45:45.519 And then you can buy Love as a Contacts Board or One and Done from the Bold Strokes Books website or anywhere you buy books. 00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:50.480 I'm a big fan of also bookshop.org because it also supports independent bookstores. 00:45:50.639 --> 00:45:55.199 And you can choose the store in your area that the proceeds will support. 00:45:55.440 --> 00:46:02.800 And so those are places I often will gear people toward or just order it at your local bookstore wherever you're from. 00:46:03.039 --> 00:46:03.840 Yes, perfect. 00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:07.679 And we will have the bookshop.org affiliate link. 00:46:07.760 --> 00:46:09.199 So it supports the podcast as well. 00:46:09.280 --> 00:46:15.440 If you use our affiliate link, it'll be in the show notes for specifically one and done and love is a context sport. 00:46:16.239 --> 00:46:18.079 Frederick, this was so much fun. 00:46:18.239 --> 00:46:19.760 Thank you so much for being on. 00:46:20.320 --> 00:46:20.880 Thank you.