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Hannah Wen: Moths are drawn to fire. Walk into a small brewery here in Ann Arbor on Ellsworth Road and you'll understand why someone named it Mothfire. In 2020, David Becker and his business partner Noah Kaplan started Mothfire Brewery Company, a small Michigan brewery that has turned beer into a gathering place. Mothfire works on a 15-barrel system where beer is hand stirred, hand bottled, and hand distributed. That means the batches are small and an intentional artisanal production process is used. The grain comes from Michigan farmers. And the beers are shaped by specific hop selection, barrel aging, fruited sours, and multiple yeast strains. They also make a hard seltzer for their house made cocktails. Mothfire describes its mission as building a cultural bonfire through craft beer, music, and art. David, thank you for joining me and welcome to the podcast.
David Becker: Yeah, this is amazing. Thanks for having me.
Hannah Wen: So my first question is, Mothfire opened in 2020. What inspired you to start a brewery and what was it like opening when you did?
David Becker: Yeah, so I feel like I've always had kind of like a vision for things that like should be there that aren't there. Like when I moved
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: to Chicago from Ann Arbor, because I'm born and raised in Ann Arbor, and I moved to Chicago, they didn't have any good delis. I was like, ooh, I really want to put in a
Hannah Wen: Mm.
David Becker: good deli in Chicago. Well that didn't happen. And then when I moved from Chicago back to Ann Arbor, I was like, man, there's no good tacos in Ann Arbor. And I wanted to open up a taco shop. And that didn't happen. But what did happen was we opened a brewery because We felt like there is a sector of beer that just wasn't being represented that well in Michigan. It's like these cleaner,
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: brighter IPAs, primarily.
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: and just beers brewed with intention. And my background is all in sustainability. So also trying to focus
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: on where we can go local, where we can find local hops or grains to support our beers along the way. And we had an opportunity to come our way. There's a brewery called Pileated Brewing Company, and they went out of business in twenty nineteen and we we bought them. And bought the space and we got our
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: license as Mothfire in February of twenty twenty. We were planning a big party in the spring of twenty twenty. As we all know, that did not happen.
Hannah Wen: wow. Yeah.
David Becker: That did not happen. So but we still had to launch. So we launched initially as like a no-name stencil brewery. And
Hannah Wen: Mm.
David Becker: we just handed out beer to go to people that were driving by brave enough. And we'd like, you know, close our eyes and hand them the beer and they'd close their eyes and take the beer and hold their breath. And they drive on and the first beer that we ever canned under Mothfire was called All Together and it was a worldwide
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: collaboration to help those impacted by COVID in the service industry. And that was pretty fitting because we're all about gathering people around the fire and the beer is called All Together and that's our that's our ethos. We're trying to create a a good
Hannah Wen: Okay.
David Becker: community gathering space in Ann Arbor.
Hannah Wen: On that line, I really like how your mission talks about a cultural bonfire. So, what does this phrase mean to you and how does it show up in the tap room?
David Becker: Yeah. It's creating a space. It's creating a space for people to gather that's super welcoming, very inclusive, something for everyone. We have a large patio for the outdoor space. We it's very dog friendly, it's outside food friendly, it's mocktail friendly, it's non beer friendly, it's beer friendly, it's it's all the things. And the staff that we have there are hired intentionally because they meet the core values that we have for our staff, which actually spells out taps. Number one is you have to be thirsty, and that's thirsty for life, thirsty for adventure, thirsty for beer, of course, for tasting things,
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: for experimenting, for creative. the A is for attention to detail. And if you look at our brewery from the brew house, the front of the house, we're very specific about the way we've curated our space and we want a nice clean appetizing space for people to be welcomed into. P is for passion. We have a ton of passion around the beer, around the industry, around creating this community vibe for people, and we want people that share that passion. And then S is for supportive. So Supportive of one another, supportive of the community. we support about forty to fifty nonprofit organizations throughout the year as well. we either donate to silent auctions, we'll host events to our space. So without the community, there is no mothfire and we recognize that. And so we support the community at every turn. we want to be there for the community, we want to show up and and really create a space where people can just relax and just enjoy themselves.
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: Like it's just I always say we want to make the Disney World of like. Because we know Disney World's supposed to the happiest place like in the world, right? And that's what that's what I want on Mothfire
Hannah Wen: Yeah.
David Becker: Not as cheesy and as expensive as Disney World, but
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: a place where you can just kind of like forget about your life for a while and just settle into a nice beverage and a beautiful environment.
Hannah Wen: It is like truly a gathering space where anyone can go. going back to the sustainability and the cultural impact within Mothfire, I know that environmental sustainability is pretty much central to what you do. What does that really look like in daily operations?
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David Becker: Yeah, great question. So I'm actually in the process of getting solar hopefully put on our roof.
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: we use a lot of energy. It's pretty energy intensive in the brewing process. to primarily to to cool the tanks and keep the tanks at certain temperatures. So we have a very large air conditioner that we use pretty much around the clock. And then we also have a lot of on demand hot water. so first and foremost is trying to figure out where we can reduce our impact. and
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: so that's where we can hopefully use more electricity and bring in solar. we also are our system is all steam. So it's all steam is very expensive. It's a big investment on the brewery side, but it's one of the most efficient technologies for heating and and treating the wort, which becomes the beer. so that was also very intentional. and then you mentioned the the local stream. So we have a fresh hop beer called the Frays that I'll drive to a farm in Goodrich, Michigan, an hour
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: and ten minutes from here. We get the hops as they're being harvested. We have to be brewing the exact same beer on that day as when I get the hops. We take the hops from the
Hannah Wen: Hm.
David Becker: farm, directly put them into the beer. And it's a process and it's it's time intensive, it's laborious and it's like I wouldn't have it any other way. it's totally worth it.
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
David Becker: We love to highlight the farms. because there's a lot of great farms around Michigan doing some cool things for for brewery. So we appreciate them.
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm. I I love that. And I'm 16, so I don't really know that much about beer. But before I came onto this episode, I was like researching on how beer was made. And I thought I think it's like been such an ancient and like central to human development. And I think it's so interesting.
David Becker: Yeah.
Hannah Wen: But I was wondering, how does sourcing locally change the flavor and character of your beers? Like why do you think it is necessary to brew the beer once the hops arrive?
David Becker: Yeah, I appreciate that. So I'm gonna go over some of the challenges that we face, honestly.
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: when we first started out, we were a hundred percent Michigan malts and grains in our beer. And
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: I loved supporting local farms. And I do feel like it gave your beer a signature flavor that you're not gonna find at any other brewery because a lot of breweries are using the same malts.
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: and so being a very small batch with the farms that we selected, I think allowed our beers to be expressed a little bit differently. Unfortunately, Empire Malting group was one of my favorite farms and they farmed the grain and then they malted the grain, they did everything.
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: it was led by a female farmer. She was incredible and she
decided Michigan winters were too cold and she moved back to Florida and she shut down the farm. So that was very hard though because they were producing a lot of our grain for us. and the other challenge we've had with some of the local malt houses is consistency. And when we were small, it didn't matter because our beers could really fluctuate brew to brew. So
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: When you make beer, people don't realize is making consistent beer that's really great every single time is actually really hard. and that's
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: where a lot of degrees fail is there's a lot of inconsistency. And so we've had to deliver on that consistency. and because of that, we've had to change some of our sourcing on our ingredients and shift away from some of the local malt houses. That's
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: been unfortunate. but originally we had to we had a strong commitment. We paid more for the grain as well.
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: but we're committed to to providing and supporting local. we still do what we can, we still do buy locally
Hannah Wen: Yes.
David Becker: on our grains, we try to support hops where we can, but it's challenging. but we're always open. We're always
Hannah Wen: Yeah, I'm sure.
David Becker: open to to collaborate and partner. So yeah.
Hannah Wen: Yeah, I'm sure. especially running a small brewery and one that's not gigantic, massive corporate, there's gonna be a lot
David Becker: Yeah.
Hannah Wen: of trade offs that you have to make and there's a lot of things that you have to consider. Like there are like dilemmas that occur. yeah. Yes.
David Becker: And I forgot to mention we give all of our grain to a local farm. So Wings Farm, there's Zeb Industrian Arbor. Yeah, they take all of our grain and and feed it to their their k their their livestock. Yeah. Yeah.
Hannah Wen: that's really cool. And that's also really good because I think this is off topic, but a lot of the agriculture produced is mainly to feed livestock and not humans. So it's good that you're reusing that and putting it
David Becker: Yes. Yeah.
Hannah Wen: back into the world. but going back to the acronyms, I really like the TAPS acronym. And I also saw on your website that you had another acronym, RAINE refined, alluring, illuminated, nuanced, and expressionist. How did that come about?
David Becker: Got it. Yeah. Well, just like our people and we're trying
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: to attract the right people, we also need core values for our beer that we can always
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: assess and evaluate our beer. So Noah and I, we always say we drink about a thousand beers a year. Now, Hannah, we're not drinking the full beer. We're tasting. We're tasting tasting beers.
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: But you have to you have to stay we want to keep our finger on the pulse of what's happening in the brewing industry in general, so that we're
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker:
always being one, hopefully inspired and motivated by other people that are brewing amazing beer. And two, always benchmarking our beers as well to see where we land, compared to other brands. and so when we're tasting and evaluating our own beer, we're always leaning it back into rain to saying, Is this meeting the core values that we've set out for our beers? Is this meeting all those objectives? and I think that's pretty important so that you're always It's easy when you're only drinking your beer to think your beer is always so good. And so we tried to drink it
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
David Becker: as objectively as possible. Yeah.
Hannah Wen: Especially since you've put so much effort into it and obviously I always think the food I make is really good because I made it, but it's sometimes it's not true.
David Becker: Nice.
Hannah Wen: but on that line, if someone has never tried Mothfire, which beer would you hand them first and why?
David Becker: Yeah. it probably it'd have to be Lolo, I think, because Lolo is the first beer we ever we ever brewed. and that's
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: what started it all back when they were brewing in a closet over at Leon Speakers. And that's when we were brewing on a one-barrel system. So we actually grew from
Hannah Wen: I see.
David Becker: a one-barrel to a five-barrel, and now we're on a 15-barrel system at the at the current location. but Lolo is just a beautifully balanced beer. It's an IPA, but for people that don't like IPAs, I give it to them and they love it. And they What is this? I go, It's an IPA. And they I like that. Why is that different? It's like, well yeah, it's meant to be brewed different. So it's just
Hannah Wen: Hmm.
David Becker: it's light and bright. It's very approachable. it's still a beer. It's not overly hopped, although it is it is a hoppy beer, but you're not tasting all the hops like you would with some of the other IPAs. Doesn't have that bitterness.
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: it's just very approachable, delicious, delightful, all the things. Yeah.
Hannah Wen: I love that. now moving away from the beer, how do you think music and art shape the tap room experience?
David Becker: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So every Wednesday during the warmer months, we provide free jazz. We've been doing that for
Hannah Wen: Mm.
David Becker: the last two years. And so it's another community it's another like community gift that we want to provide. and and also I grew up in Ann Arbor. There used to be a lot there used to be a lot more smaller music venues and there's no longer
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: it's harder to find spaces for people in well, definitely the jazz discipline of music. so we wanted provide a platform for for jazz musicians. and then on the art side we do like local art and crafts. So we'll have craft markets. we do about three a year, again, highlighting the local artists. as beer makers, we are we are artists, we are artesians, like we're all in this together.
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: We're crafting the beverages, we're putting a lot of intentionality behind it. I think art just makes life so much more beautiful and helps all with our entire space. If you come to our space, we we've curated
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: all the art in our space. And it's it's some very like some local and just some very much like national artists. But yeah, it's there's a different vibe when you have live music in your space and there's
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
David Becker: a different energy and it really creates and I think adds to people's experience when they're there.
Hannah Wen: I so agree. I love when you're in a space and you're surrounded by art and you're surrounded by passion. Live music is pretty much passion. But on that yeah, on that
David Becker: It's inspirational Yeah.
Hannah Wen: line, I think also events are central to Mothfire. And I saw that you had Teacher Thursday and recently on Halloween you had Devil's Night. what inspired
David Becker: Yeah.
Hannah Wen: these events and how are they going?
David Becker: Yeah, they're great. Teacher Thursday is amazing. It's just our our way of trying to give back to the teachers in our community.
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: I'm yeah, my mom was a teacher, both my in laws were teachers. I recognize the value that teachers provide our community and our children, of course.
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: without like great teachers in our lives, I wouldn't be who I am today. You probably wouldn't be who you are today. Like we need
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
David Becker: great teachers, we need to support teachers. Teachers need to be paid more. I
Hannah Wen: Yeah.
David Becker: wish we had tons of money at Mothfire. We don't have tons of money, so we can't give them lots of money, but we can at least give them something. at least give some recognition
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: to show them that we care. and so when I talked to teachers, I said what day is best? I Thursday, because we only have one day left.
Hannah Wen: Yes.
David Becker: so teacher Thursdays are super fun and it's fun to see the teachers gather as well and have a space
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: where they can like get away from the work but still have other teachers around them if they if they want to like, you know, talk about the work as well.
Hannah Wen: Yeah.
David Becker: and then yeah, Devil's Night, Devil's Night's such a Michigan thing. So you know I grew up
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
David Becker: and hearing about Devil's Night in Detroit obviously was a Sad event because you you had a lot of people doing damage in the city.
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: but for us it fit the ethos of Mothfire, just I think shine in a light on those on those evenings and providing a space for people to get a little wild. we used
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: to have fire dance so she'd come out perform. but we haven't we haven't had them
Hannah Wen: That's really cool.
David Becker: in a little while, but that was super cool. but yeah, it's it's an opportunity for us to celebrate Halloween, basically. and
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: then still provide Halloween. We are very family friendly. Most people We want them to spend Halloween with their families and their communities, not necessarily
Hannah Wen: Yes.
David Becker: at the brewery. So so we we provide Devil's Night to have some Halloween fun.
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm. And I think that especially having the events, that is a further community touch point for Mothfire. But also, how do you think the city of Ann Arbor has shaped Mothfire? And how do you think the brewery has contributed to the community beyond the beer?
David Becker: so launching in twenty twenty, if we
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: if we didn't have like the community, it was very very hard to start a business in May of twenty twenty.
Hannah Wen: Yeah, for sure. For sure.
David Becker: so we really leaned on the community to
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: collaborate to support us. And we're a local no name brewery. and so they took a they took a chance on us. They stocked their shelves with our beer. I'm forever grateful to some of our earlier shops that supported us. and even the bars and restaurants. And we did what we could for the other industry as well. We helped can cocktails, for example, for places that could no longer have people at their bars.
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: we tried to do what we could. for example, there's a a hops farm that was they had a lot of Mackinac hops. We built an entire
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: brand of beer called Batch just around those Mackinac hops, I was trying to find a way for them to like give us their excess hops they could sell them and still make money off the hops versus just throwing them away. So
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
David Becker: yeah, so we're always looking for opportunities to to support. I think as I mentioned before, without the community, we wouldn't be in this kind of the
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: space we're in right now. Like we're very supportive, we're very locally supported. and I think we give back to community a lot of people who visit Ann Arbor want to stop through Mothfire. So on these big game day weekends, for example, we get lot of foot traffic on like the nights before the game. So that's super fun. yeah, and I feel like we've provided Ann Arbor, like we have a big field for kids to run in and play in and everything, and like there aren't many spaces
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: you can do that. and I know for me, like breweries are the epicenters of communities. When our daughter is very young, we would travel to breweries because breweries are typically family friendly. and it's a safe space. And
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm. Yes.
David Becker: it's a place you go and you get a vi you get a feeling for what the city is all about. And I think when people come
to
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: Mothfire it's a reflection of Ann Arbor. I think the people who are there
Hannah Wen: Yeah, yeah.
David Becker: The vibe and all the things, yeah.
Hannah Wen: completely agree. I think Ann Arbor is such a diverse space and also such a
David Becker: Mm.
Hannah Wen: welcoming space. And I think with Mothfire's core values and ethos, that really does reflect Ann Arbor. But looking back, what would you tell your 2020 self who's just starting Mothfire if you were able to have a conversation with him?
David Becker: Man. what's funny because I've had the thought of if I really knew all the work that went into
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: building Mothfire, would I would I have done it, you know? And
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: I think I think obviously like the benefit of everything is far outweighed the amount of work. I love
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: Mothfire. I can imagine my life without Mothfire. My family loves Mothfire. Like it's it's it's it's part of who I am now. So
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: I would tell that that young that younger person to stick with it. And there's beautiful things on the horizon. And I feel like we're we're really still just getting started. but there are a lot
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: of long nights. You know, I was brewing during the nights. I've I've had a full time day job since I've launched Mothfire. So I've been working around
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: the clock. I have a very supporting and loving family and wife that allow me to do this. and without them,
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: this wouldn't be possible either. So I'm
Hannah Wen: Yeah, and
David Becker: very grateful.
Hannah Wen: I really like how you recognize the sacrifice that went into it. It's I think a lot of people, once they see the establishment, it's it's easy to basically disregard what happened before, like what went into creating it. But for my final question,
David Becker: Absolutely.
Hannah Wen: what do you hope people remember about Mothfire? Not just the beer, but about what you've built.
David Becker: Yeah, I think it's the feeling they had when they're at Mothfire. I think they're there
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: are spaces you go to that kind of fill your soul, and make it sparkle a little bit more.
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: And that's what I hope Mothfire brings to to people. and I want them to always remember those feelings and those moments they had at Mothfire. we already have I mean, even these young kids have been coming to Devil's Night for the last three three years and they're so excited to get their face painted. You know, it's gonna
Hannah Wen: yes.
David Becker: I really like a proper face painter. they do cool things. And I think just those moments, like especially for the children, even for like the dogs and like yeah, there's a woman the other day actually. She my wife was telling me a story. She had helped advocate for we had like this little gravel pit for kids.
Hannah Wen: Mm-hmm.
David Becker: and she wanted a place for her kid to be able to play. And unfortunately, her kid passed before he could play in
Hannah Wen: Mm.
David Becker: the gravel pit. We put that together. And and she still loves coming to Mothfire and and having that moment and and thinking of of her child. So, you know, things
Hannah Wen: Yeah.
David Becker: like that. You just can't you know, you can't put a a dollar or like a figure on that. Like it's just
Hannah Wen: Yeah, yeah.
David Becker: it's so cool, to see some impact that we've had on on people.
Hannah Wen: For sure. And these memories these people will remember for life. the dogs even, they'll remember it for the rest of their dog years. And I love that. Well
David Becker: Yeah. That's right. That's right. Yeah.
Hannah Wen: thank you so much for joining me, David. That brings us to the end of this Under the Canopy episode. If you found value in this episode and want to hear more, kindly subscribe or follow and leave a review. Hope to see you soon on next week's episode.