رونوشت کامل Ep. 1 - Top Loaded for Collectors and Investors

at this point now we can think about that and say, well, if you came into the peak and we're doing some buying, as long as you didn't spend everything during the peak, you're fine. Spend through the down, come back and spend through the the up. But Spencer Kitley: Yeah. Yeah. So now you've been back for about five years and and you've honed in your strategy a little bit. Mike: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm still very specific. I buy, you know, I buy mostly Hall of Famer old you know, A-list greats. I've always, always appreciated just excellence in sports. But my strategy has expanded. And also my my my favorite guys, like Don Mattingley growing up, I still PC him. I still PC Nolan Ryan, although that's a phenomenal investment as well. But yeah, I'm back in and I have been for a bunch of years and I was just buying like crazy. Yeah, A list Hall of Famers and then I spread across other sports. It wasn't just baseball, but I moved into basketball, football, hockey. so that's really where I've been focusing on building a perfectly centered, high eye appeal collection of goats. Spencer Kitley: Yeah. And you'll occasionally dabble into the modern a little, but not often. and largely due to the success or lack thereof of your Anthony Volpey collection. But Mike: Which I still have. Spencer Kitley: yeah. Hey, I I still think if they could find a w if the Yankees could find a way to put make Volpey the everyday third baseman, it it could be on to something. Mike: Something could happen. Spencer Kitley: Tell a little bit about me. we're we're both now in Austin, Texas. I grew up here in Austin, Texas. first cards I ever ripped were 84 tops. This Daryl Strawberry rookie card that I pulled out of there was was the greatest thing since sliced bread. ironically, not a Daryl Strawberry fan. but similar to you, my peak of the of the ripping came around three years later, nineteen eighty seven with eighty-seven tops. And then Then really ramped probably through to get really hot around nineteen ninety, the red border Donruss, the King of Kings, the Nolan Ryan card. And went again through probably ninety through ninety-four, maybe ninety-five. so got into a little bit of shiny stuff before before rolling out and and then periodically through the years. I would go into a card shop every once in a while and and quote buy the the things that you should buy, right? A Mike Trout rookie, Clayton Kershaw rookie. at the time a Troy Tula Witzki rookie or a Brian Wilson rookie and and stashing those things away which ended up being good things there most of them were the right things but the market wasn't hot across that time frame but in 2021 I hopped on a zoom call with a with a friend to work out a fantasy baseball trade he's sitting at his computer it's still the pandemic and he's like hey check out these 2021 Topps Heritage cards Aren't they cool? I was like, it's like I do cards. But at the time in the pandemic, I had gotten back into collecting G.I. Joe. My my I got my childhood collection of figures back from my parents' house. My son and I got into it. We lightly played with the G.I. Joe's. And I built up a lot of stuff, which I still have, and maybe I shouldn't. But Trent kind of just Mike: Ha ha. Spencer Kitley: Cold Turkey quit the Joes and went back into the cardboard and and it and and made a lot of had a lot of fun. This was the time where like it was blood sport to even get product. You would go like try to hang out outside of Target. it's when they stopped selling cards at Target because some there was fights in a Wisconsin parking lot or maybe even worse than fights. And but at the time I thought I needed to have a graded rookie card of like all the quote stars in baseball. Vlad Guerrero. Corey Seeger, Raphael Devers, Trey Turner, the list goes on, Bo Bouchette. As well as some of the Juan Soto, Aronal Cunha, Shohei Otani, etc. And kind of fast forward, like a lot of bad choices, things kinda go bust, still have some of that stuff. But in twenty twenty three I went to my first card show since I was a kid. That card show happened to be the national in Chicago. And I made some really smart purchases there. I bought a lot of Shohei Otani rookie cards, which that lot of stuff probably makes up fifty percent of the value of my entire collection today. and and that and that's kind of where I've been. I I've gotten more focused. I was doing all three sports. I'm really just baseball now with Tom Brady and like the dream team, basketball wise. It it's it's kind of i in in that in that in that kind of constraints, but for me, like modern day it's like really who are the A list guys that are going to go to the Hall of Fame? Like who are the top wins above replacement guys? And then and then I collect Mickey Manuel and Sandy Koufax on the vintage side. It it's it's I put myself in a pretty neat little box and Mike's helped influence my my vintage and s vintage interest. Maybe when those two guys get a little more baked out of my collection. Maybe I expand a little bit more. but a lot of it All traces back to being here in Austin, working at a baseball card shop as a kid, MVP sports cards, Anderson Mill Road. Murray Graham was the owner. We still play fantasy baseball together. And that kinda had a lot to do with a lot of things in my life, but baseball cards were certainly one of them. Still remember that Michael Jordan and that big thick screw down in the case for four hundred dollars and I was like, gosh, that's so much money for the card. Wouldn't I have loved to have bought Michael Jordan rookie card for four hundred dollars? Mike: Yeah, we we all have those, right? If I could go back. So what percentage would you say you're buying right now would be modern, ultra modern, vintage? So vintage pre let let's go Spencer Kitley: It's a great question. But real quick, Mike: yeah. Spencer Kitley: what's how do we define those? And and when I say Mike: Exactly. Spencer Kitley: we, like you and me, right? Like for

me, Mike: Yeah, and the hobby as a whole. Spencer Kitley: yeah, for me vintage is eighty and back. eighty to twenty twelve. is probably modern and then twenty twelve or twenty thirteen I guess forward is is ultra modern. And the reason I say twenty twelve, that's when to when Panini made Prism. and that's when Prism came to be in football and basketball. And that's a pretty big measuring stick in that part of the hobby. And and it has some pieces that that trickle over to to baseball as well. You could also go and say like in that like ninety one to ninety five window when we get Stadium Glove for the first time, we get finest for the first time, we get Chrome and ninety six in baseball. You could say then, but I I kind of there's like shiny and then there's super shiny for me. I don't know, how about you? Mike: Yeah, and then parallels, sure. The refractors, parallels coming in, serial numbered stuff. I think that it's helpful to have general guidelines and terms you can use to describe different eras in sports cards. But at the end of the day, yeah, it's splitting hairs if you wanna, you know, get into a two or three year window of is this the defining line or not. it's interesting to talk about because people often say ultra modern. Or vintage. Those are the two really big categories that get talked about Spencer Kitley: Yeah. Mike: right now, you know. so for me, I just pre pre nineteen eighty, but it I do that because the industry kinda landed there. For me, vintage actually I I consider it to be more along the lines of you know, maybe even up to eighty three, eighty four, 'cause eighty four introduced top Tiffany in baseball and Spencer Kitley: Yeah. Mike: i it was a kind of a delineated delineator there, but I I think it's more important to think about like are these old cards and then what is old to me, what's old to you, what's old to a fifteen or fourteen year old kid like my son? 'Cause yeah. Spencer Kitley: Yeah. And then and like one one another clean and clean way of doing it is just like when do they stop being paper and when did they start being glossy? Alright. And and the answer is Mike: Yeah, yeah. Lots of different way it is. Spencer Kitley: the answer is you get kind of that there with upper deck, right? And then you really get there with Stadium Club. Mike: Yeah. Yep. Yeah. So early nineties, very late eighties with upper deck baseball in eighty Spencer Kitley: Yeah. Mike: nine introduced the higher quality pictures and photos on the cards. Yeah, I t agree. So it gr Spencer Kitley: Yeah. Those eighty-nine upper deck packs were so expensive, they were a dollar and a quarter. So expensive. And I'm not and I'm not being sarcastic. Yeah. Mike: Buck twenty five, yeah, versus the fifty. I I didn't do It just I could get more bang for my buck. I got to open more cards if I spent thirty, fifty cents on a pack in eighty seven than I did a buck twenty five and eighty nine. But yeah, it's Spencer Kitley: Yeah. Yeah. So talking about the Eretz long enough, it gave me time to categorize. I I would say I'm probably forty percent ultra modern, thirty-five percent modern and and twenty-five percent vintage. Probably a fair assessment. Mike: Nice. And then what do you do in terms of graded versus raw? What's your percentage? Spencer Kitley: It's a it's a good one because particularly as we sit in a time where it's really hard to get something graded, right? it's really hard to get something graded. It's also n maybe not even cost effective on certain cards. I used to buy probably more raw cards. I still do, but I try to buy mostly slabs. It to be honest, it's mostly PSA. I will on some older cards buy a BGS lab or an SGC slab if I think it's a if it if I think it's a good purchase. I do like some uniformity. and I do like and I like to build sets, but not in the traditional sense of building sets. Like you know like I have a Otani and Judge every single season PSA ten Popscrum refractor set of of each of those guys. Lacking two Otanis and they're not the ones you think I'm lacking. and the there's some of these later ones are harder to find. And and I like to build insert sets and and and fun stuff like that. So like I am a collector's collector. I will sell stuff off that I don't that I don't want or need, but for me, like I like to have completion with different things. And not Mike: Yeah. Spencer Kitley: that someone from you, you're like you're building like year runs of A-less Hall of Famers trying to get all the A L S Hall of Famers from a particular year, right? Mike: Yeah, dating back as far as I can essentially afford. So I mean shoot, I'd g I'd go all the way back to Ruth if I could. Spencer Kitley: That fifty three? Fifty what what what is that? Mike: Yeah, I mean the fifty fifty two right now is is I'm not gonna say it's untouchable. I would have to seriously consider that type of an investment to do a jack Spencer Kitley: Yeah. Mike: any Matthews rookie or even a number one indie popco you know in in reasonable grade but yeah I I would say probably early early 50s 53 is probably you know a a good start but I have also got a 1939 Play Ball TED in a PSA 6 and I Spencer Kitley: Yeah. Mike: bought that simply because it looked like it was pack fresh and it the grade made no sense to me so that fit into my buying criteria. Spencer Kitley: Yeah. It's all it's almost as old as my nineteen teens David Crockett card, so just saying. Mike: Well, David Crockett may actually be a bigger name than Ted Williams globally. Maybe a better purchase on your end. I don't know. but yeah, I I do the run as far back as I can, all the way through the early 80s, essentially the big name. So I try to stick to Clemente, Mays, Aaron, Koufax, Ryan, Mantle, and I try to do that run every you know, all all years, all the way through in as high a grade as I can find that looks good and Spencer Kitley: Yeah. Mike: I can afford. Spencer Kitley: Yeah. And for me, like I have those guys like I'm a lot

smarter now with like it's it's judge and otani and then ch take your pick who you think the next next best guy is. But then I have a group of guys that I just like, right? Like I like Cody Bellinger. I like Jazz Chisholm. I I like some of these guys. I buy their cards 'cause I like them. All right. And but I also I didn't I didn't even talk like my PC is is is Roger Clemens, King Griffey Jr., Frank Thomas, Tom Brady. maybe a couple other guys. but that those Yeah. Mike: Guys that were relevant to you during your youth. Spencer Kitley: Yeah, th those those are the guys I like. I'm still buying them. Like I I Like, okay, what do I not have of those guys? And like some of the some of the like nineties insert market is really cool right now. I spent a lot of time looking at it just last night. But but that's like that's who I Mike: And boom it. Spencer Kitley: am as a collector. I'm I'm a collector with a slight tinge of investment. and w where do you put yourself on that spectrum? Mike: Yeah, and it it's funny 'cause it's I've always thought about what I own also being worth something later. And I think that started when I was a young kid. And it c it happened 'cause I grew up without money. So I was hungry. I was always trying to earn an extra dollar. I had businesses growing up all the time. I still have businesses, you know, to this day. and for me it was always about what do I really love and then how can I continue to hone in what I love so that what I love can also take care of me later from an investment perspective. So Spencer Kitley: Yeah. Mike: I loved Mattingly growing up. Maybe from a money perspective, if you were buying 84 Mattingly or Donruss cards at a certain point in time, that probably wouldn't be a very good investment. Cause you know, back before grading, it's not like you're grabbing tens. Those typically stay locked up in collections. So you were probably buying cards that would grade a six, seven, you know, eight range. And those aren't going to be worth very much today, and you were paying top dollar back then for them. Same Spencer Kitley: Yeah. Mike: with like the Meguiar, you know, the 85 you know Olympic card. I remember when those are going for 200 bucks a copy raw, and I'd look at it and I'd think to myself, this is not a strong copy, but everybody wanted 200 flat, you know, for that particular card. Today, those cards raw back then might grade out again. Six, seven, maybe an eight, and they're certainly not worth two hundred dollars. So if you had gone in big at that, you know, back then, so for me, I used to think to myself, like, what what is it that I can buy that would that would probably hold value over time? And when I came back in, that was the real big push for me to say, you know, after all this time coming in now, you know, with a lifetime of experience under me, I'd invested in lots of different things, real estate and you know, stock market, gold, what whatever I could find that I thought would make sense

from an investment perspective. When I came back into cards, I looked at it again and said, what's the stuff that should go up? In the late 90s when I had my my eBay business as top shelf sports cards, you know, those cards were all nines and tens, and you could do that back then. Grading was Spencer Kitley: Yeah. Mike: five bucks a copy and you could buy 20 of one guy. So I used to project out their careers and the guys that I loaded up on, one of the things that I recognize now in retrospect is that I was front loading risk, which is talked about a lot in investing. Spencer Kitley: Yeah. Mike: I was front loading risk, meaning I was paying premium dollars for guys who were stars today that I thought would go into the Hall of Fame and get a bump later. The problem was that was still a gamble, even though I was using statistics and you know number projections to be more accurate. So for me, I started in the late Spencer Kitley: And we we see that a lot today with Bowman collectors, right? Bowman collectors are are gambling on prospects and I try not to do it. But I've done it w really well one time. That was Spencer Jones. and it's and it's and it's still working out and he's still super young. But I don't if someone's getting in to make investments, Bowman's not the place I'm I'm telling you to do it. Do I love Bowman? A hundred percent. Love it. But it's not not it's not the smart money. Mike: Yeah. Well it it it's just you have to think about where when you're putting your money into an investment. If you're putting money in at the top of a market and it continues to go up, you're fine. And I mean a market for a player, for the entire hobby as a whole, for a team, if it's off season that you know, they're gonna make a playoff push no matter what sport it is, they're always buying, you know, entry and exit points and hold points with any type of an investment. I think one of the things I've done over time is to get smarter and sharper. About when I'm putting my money into a specific, you know, card, player, set, whatever that is, and really thinking about my exit strategy for it. Because the way I buy, I love cards. I'm a deep collector. I always have been. I spend time with my cards. I look at them, I enjoy them, I walk into my card closet, I have everything up on the walls, as you know. I get to go through them and just really enjoy my experience of being with my cards. design perspective, write-ups on the backs, statistics, all of it. I still dig into this day. And all of those cards that I have now on my walls also fit a very specific buying criteria. Hopefully they will take Spencer Kitley: Yeah. Mike: care of me over time. Spencer Kitley: Yeah. And let's get into here in just a second. fun fact though. two fun facts. Mention the back of the cards. I just bought another eighty-five Clemens tops Clemens card. Read the back of it. It says he was had a chance to play this for the Seattle Supersonics and some other NBA team. It's completely the wrong information for for Clemens on his card. It's not him. but also Mike: Is it an error? Is it an error? Spencer Kitley: No, but the other fun fact, before Mike was centered sports cards, he was collector investor and that's kind of who who he is. so the the meat and the potatoes of the show today is going to be pickups of the week. we're each gonna have two it's we're gonna stick to a certain format for it each and every episode where we get into this. so let's start off off with Mike, like what is it? Your card number one of the day, pick up tell us about it. Mike: Alright, so I'll give you the card and I'll give you a little bit of a story. So this is the card. It's a Spencer Kitley: We go Roger Maris. Mike: Roger Maris, and if you can't see with the lighting, it's a PSA five. You notice the centering is sharp. This is the type of card I love to buy. Why this card? Because in nineteen sixty one he chased this cat. So he was chasing Mantle and Mantle was chasing Maris, and both of them were chasing Babe Ruth. So this is one of the most important stories in the history of baseball, the 1961 home run chase between Maris and Mantle. And so I had been waiting and waiting and waiting to find the right Roger Maris 1961 card, mid-grade, perfectly centered or as best as I could possibly find, to pair with my Mickey Mantle, like a fine wine and a steak. Finally found my Maris, and now I've got the two of them forever linked together in my in my collection. Spencer Kitley: Gotcha. Alright, so yeah, that's the history of it. That's the the legacy. What's the what's the market significance? What's the scarcity on on on this on this Maris card? Mike: Yeah, it's a great question. So from a pop count perspective, a rarity perspective, the 61 Roger Maris in a PSA 5 condition has a population of just over a thousand for PSA graded cards. The total population of all cards is 9,500. And there is one PSA 10, 24 PSA 9s, just to give you an idea on the high high end. But the card doesn't come up very often. Why? Because it's tucked away in PCs. So from a rarity perspective, although the pop count may be a thousand and forty-three for the five, the pop count on this particular card in that eye appeal with that type of borders and this type of color So the pop count itself at just over a thousand isn't rarity, but the population count with that particular eye appeal and centering, that's that's significantly more rare, which is why I put it in my PC. Spencer Kitley: Gotcha. Which kinda leads me to like my next question, like why now? And like I I think the answer is like I've been looking for one. So like now was the right now was when I find one. Mike: Yeah. The benefit of doing this for, you know, decades and decades since I was ten and I used to set up at card shows when I was in my early teens and I've just been in the hobby for a long time. I have a sense of what I'm looking for, and when I do a card show, which is where I found this particular card, the

Philly card show, which we'll talk about in just a moment, I had always had my eyes open for this. But I'll Spencer Kitley: Yeah. Mike: ask I'll ask you the audience, when do you go to a card show? and see a nice eye appeal nineteen sixty one Roger Maris card. They don't show up on tables a lot. There are a decent amount of them out there, but they're tucked away in PCs. So I just Spencer Kitley: Yeah. Mike: hadn't seen the one that I wanted to buy even on eBay until this one Spencer Kitley: Yeah. Mike: live. Spencer Kitley: So you you mentioned the I appeal. Why is it why this copy? Is it is it the I appeal or what it what is it about this one? Mike: Yeah, so it's mid grade, which means financially it's re you know, it's it's reasonable to buy. I paid under two hundred dollars for a card that in my opinion with eye appeal is probably worth closer to five hundred dollars because collectors want this particular card and I know I would have paid that. And I know other collectors that would have paid it for that particular card too. So yeah, the centering really, really matters to me. I'm centered sports cards as a business, but even when I was a kid, that's how I traded baseball cards in particular. I wanted the nice most nicely centered cards because to me it's a piece of art. And if you're gonna put a piece of art on the wall like a painting, imagine spending money on a painting and that painting is slightly askew in the frame. You would never do it. You wouldn't allow it. So for me the image on the card matters a lot in terms of the centering. But the color is there, the registration is sharp, it's not terribly blurry. This particular Maris card can look a little blurry anyway, and I know that from seeing copies over time. Spencer Kitley: Yeah. Mike: And this particular one was as as I've ever seen live. Spencer Kitley: Yeah. Normally I would say would you buy it still buy it today? I know the answer because you just bought it, so the answer is an obvious Mike: I just bought it. Spencer Kitley: yes. very good. Mike: I'll buy here, I'll do I'll do I'll I'll move into the future for you. A year down the road, this car move card moves from around two hundred bucks to five hundred bucks. I buy it today for five hundred bucks. Yep. And I'm not selling, it's not for sale. How about you, Spence? Spencer Kitley: Yeah. And and you're not selling it. You're th that one's for your Yeah. Mike: What have you picked up recently? Spencer Kitley: Yeah, one one of my cards that I brought today is a a card that I I really like. It is a twenty seventeen tops. Aaron Judge Throwback Thursday, which twenty seventeen, that means it's a rookie card for Aaron Judge. So this set, an online exclusive from Topps. These cards were released weekly as mini sets. They were they were only available for per per excuse me for purchase for a single week. and each mini set has a different theme based on designs from previous tops throwbacks. This particular one being nineteen fifty

four Bowman, which coincidentally not too long ago I was with card show with you. I bought a Fifty-four Bowman Mickey Manel, which has actually almost doubled in value since I bought it. now, has that nineteen fifty-four Bowman look and feel further significance because it's obviously an under-the-radar judge rookie card. He already has the accolades, right? Rent run, really solid. Fourteen hundred and seventy-five of these cards exist. which makes it a pretty scarce Aaron R Judge rookie card. It also is a good looking card. and this copy is a PSA ten. The total pop of that only two hundred and thirty-six. or excuse me, total pop of graded cards, two hundred and thirty six. The PSA ten pop only a hundred and fifty-five. so Great image of a young judgy looking powerful and strapping there. and I I really like it. And I like I'm I'm I'm I'm Mike: Yeah, it's a beautiful card. Spencer Kitley: I'm a judge fan, so Mike: Yeah, and for those those of you watching or listening, you know, both Spencer and I really do appreciate the the throwback cards. So using those classic designs of modern guys, I I think it's brilliant and and it gives you a taste of nostalgia and vintage while mixing what's happening today. And especially for a card like that, if we're talking about like the investor collector mix. We w both of us are judge collectors, we like him, but at the same time it's also a decent investment because the pop count's not high on it, and there's an awful lot of cards around this rookie year and we all know that. But that happens to be a pretty unique. Spencer Kitley: Yeah, for sure. Gonna y you wanna hit me you wanna hit me with the questions? Mike: Yeah, absolutely. So essentially why why now though, why that judge card today? Spencer Kitley: well With Judge having been injured this year, a slight some slight dips in his market, which like obviously came back from the rib injury, played a little bit, now has the calf injury. Hopefully he'll be back in the playoffs for the Yanks. They're playing really well without him. Imagine the boost you get with the captain. but but also like I like finding under the radar type stuff like this. Like everybody has a topps chrome, Aaron Judge or e not Not everybody has a top scroll marriage refractor. I do from that year, but as do you, I think. and but I like having something a little different. I have my eyes on some more of these kind of like more niche things. Yes, it's not lost on me that like that's not what everyone wants. So like I if I wanted to sell this card, it's for a particular audience. but I love the card. He's already has the accolades, right? Three time AL MVP, a AL rookie of the year, eight time All Star. Five silver sluggers. He won the batting title last season, right? He's like it's you're not gonna it's gonna be hard to go wrong, and he's a nice guy too. Like, so you're it's Mike: Yeah. Spencer Kitley: g it's hard to go wrong with Judgy. Yeah. Mike: Captain of the New York Yankees holds the American League home run record. Spencer Kitley: Yeah. Mike: yeah, pretty pretty safe now. I'm still buying them today too. So investor collector mix, yeah, good good purchase. Spencer Kitley: Yeah, and and pr for me, like It's a PSA ten. It it's it's well centered. The eye appeal is good. It looks good. The back is a vintage looking feel to it, as it should be, w with it being model modeled after the fifty four. what about d you you brought a second card for us, I I imagine. what what what what do you have? Ooh, we we have the the f the fifth the fifth Mike: I brought a second card, absolutely. woah missed. Spencer Kitley: American sport after baseball, basketball, Mike: Ha ha Spencer Kitley: football and T V is the challenge. then you have hockey. Mike: That's right. This is the nineteen fifty-three Parkhurst R Maurice Rocket Richard. So it is a gorgeous card. And you can't see it maybe in the video, but there's like some ice shavings kicking up from his skates. It's just a phenomenal action photo. It's no Maurice Spencer Kitley: The the player's name is Maurice Rochard. Mike: Richard, and he was known as the Rocket. Spencer Kitley: Okay, I was today years old when I heard of this game. Mike: 1953 Parkhurst. It's a PSA 4. So to give an idea in terms of popular. Spencer Kitley: Tell me about Parkhurst. Mike: Yeah, so Parkhurst is a is an early hockey and it still runs. I'm not sure if they're still producing, but they do have modern cards out. They do they've done some reprints and they're interesting, but it it kind of goes back to me. It feels like it feels like early vintage baseball Bowman. Spencer Kitley: Yeah. Mike: They just unique designs. That was the brand of. of you know, for hockey back then and right now when, you know, hockey collectors talk about Parkhurst, it's it it feels very vintage. Spencer Kitley: Who did who did he play for? Mike: this he's with the Canadians. Mont Montreal Spencer Kitley: The the Habs. Mike: Canadiens. Spencer Kitley: Like the the people in Canada call them the Habs. Or did you know this? I know nothing about hockey, but I know this one fact. Yes. So so yeah, like Mike: Knowing one thing is better than no things. So in this particular card, you know, what Spencer Kitley: why is that one important? Mike: because I wanted a Parkhurst Rocket, and I had been looking on eBay, I've got a couple search, you know, searches going, and this one popped up. It's nicely centered, the coloring's good, even though it's a four, there are no creases or wrinkles, which is one of my key criteria. This one just happened to be a bonus. There's a PWCC exceptional tag on the back of it. And I agree with that. So if we were doing Spencer Kitley: Yeah. Mike: like a Mike Baker sticker on the front, it would have probably silvered. But it just looks really good. And the population counts on these things, you know, for the fifty-three Parkhurst Richard, there are five hundred and thirty-seven total cards graded by PSA. Total. So

this Spencer Kitley: Gosh. So w like, let's talk player legacy though. Like since I don't know that I know I know Wayne Gretzky and Bobby Oer and Marlemie and people like that. Like where's this guy? Is is he a top ten, top twenty? Okay. Mike: top ten easily. Yeah, he's he's a vintage goat. So eighteen year career, I'll just read a couple things. five hundred and fifty four goals, nine hundred and sixty five points. Why does that stuff matter? Because they were big numbers back then. Fourteen NHL all-star selections. He was the first player to score fifty goals in a season, and he did it in fifty games. So he's scoring a goal a game in nineteen forty four. And he was the first player to reach five hundred career goals. Spencer Kitley: eighteen forty four. This is old. Yeah. Is it a rookie? Is it a rookie? Not a rookie. Mike: Yeah. Beautifully, wonderfully seasoned. It's not a rookie. No, I can't no, no. I I'll continue to look for a Rocket rookie. What's funny is for those of you obviously just tuning in the first time, Spencer's favorite player is Roger Clemens, aka the Rocket. So I thought it'd be fun to bring out on our very first call Spencer Kitley: Yeah. Mike: a relatively recent purchase of The Rocket just from a different sport. So Spencer Kitley: Yeah. He may have been around first, but he's not the real rocket. Mike: He was around first for sure. But it's just it's it's a phenomenal vintage card with really high eye appeal. And this card's gonna run you between five and eight hundred dollars depending on the condition. I personally think that hockey cards are very undervalued. I've got a very strong Gretzky collection, Bobby Or collection, and I wanted something. Spencer Kitley: Yeah, is that the is that the why right now? Is because you feel like hockey is at a in a at a point where it should be acted upon? Mike: Sleeper state. Yeah, I think it's high I think it's in hibernation. I think it's asleep right now and I think the hockey market is going to have its boom time. I think it will be focused around Gretzky and I think it'll spread out to like some of the the newer stars. like you know, Crosby's not newer, but he's relatively new from a modern perspective. Spencer Kitley: Yeah. Mike: So I I think hockey's gonna get its say here coming up really soon. But then with all with everything that's gone on, what's the trend? The trend is everybody will jump in and look at the big stars today, they'll grow go grab the A list goats, and then they'll move down the list from goat like a Gretzky. Same thing. Spencer Kitley: It's same thing we've seen in basketball with everybody bought Michael LeBron, Kobe and staff and now it's like, now we're buying Shaq and whatever Mike: Yes. Spencer Kitley: else. And then I I've heard through the grapevine recently that like, like Kevin Garnett's on the rise and and some other guys like that on the are on the rise. So it's it's interesting. Mike: Yep, so they'll get their little bumps and then I think those, you know, second tier, third tier guys are gonna drop back again longer term speaking. But for me I'd Spencer Kitley: Yeah. Mike: like to own the nicest eye appeal, oldest I can find from the goats of each of the sports, and Rocket Richard is definitely up there in top five. Spencer Kitley: Gotcha. I didn't when we said we were gonna start this podcast, I didn't have us pegged as as a hockey show, but here we are. Mike: you're gonna see plenty of baseball coming from me, you know that. And then vintage football as well. Spencer Kitley: Yeah. Well and just like that, my second card of the day, I'm gonna zag out of baseball two. So I was trying to Mike: All right. Spencer Kitley: I was trying to zag when I so we didn't have four baseball cards, but here we are. mine is a whoop, that's Aaron Judge still. Hi, Aaron. yeah. This I Mike: This is my second copy. Another PSA ten. Spencer Kitley: Yeah, my my card is this twenty fourteen Tom Brady SSP. It's in his white jersey. It's a PSA nine. It's got a fun photo on it too. And of him celebrating in the end zone to just spike the ball or maybe getting a little spin-arooney. But like any Brady in a short print is a yes for me. and total pop of that card, there's only thirty-two of them graded. Mike: Mm. Spencer Kitley: twenty six of them are in a nine or a ten. And this is a paper. This is not this is not Chrome, which they they were making Chrome then that I was actually the second to last year of of Topps Football Chrome. They went to twenty fifteen. There was three years of overlap with with Tops Chrome and Prism. but really great phot photo of Tommy doing something other than passing, which is which is somewhat rare. and this was Brady's fourth Super Bowl victory season, where they defeated the Seahawks in that storied finish, right? Where like why didn't they give Marshawn Lynch the ball on the goal line? he also won MVP that Super Bowl MVP that year, and like like for me, like It's easy to say, yeah, it's a goat and the goat markets have been red hot, but like Brady is a good sound investment. Not just Danny Brady, rookies of course, but low pop cards, great imagery, good stories, goat status, and and he's out there in in in the world, right? Like he has card shops. He's a he's a minority owner of the Raiders. He's on T V with Fox every Sunday. Like he he's involved in a lot of things and and he's particularly involved with fanatics and Michael Rubin and the hobby and like a very visible face and he's become a lot more personable as a retired player. Mike: So then question for you and from from an investor collector perspective. So you are mostly a collector. If we just Spencer Kitley: Yep. Mike: had a percentage or a shift one way or the other, you're more of a collector than an investor. Is Brady for you is that particular card more of an investment or more of a collector's piece? Spencer Kitley: good question. it's a it's a collector piece that is also a good investment, right? It's like,

hey, like if I needed to sell this, it it's not gonna go down in value. Yeah. Mike: Yep, perfect. What one of one of the criteria that I kind of poke around with is if I were to buy this card, whatever it is, if I buy this card today, am I confident that I could sell it in 30 days and at least get my money back? And that gives me at least a 30-day window to see if that decision sticks. And if it does, I hold it. And if it doesn't, I can always get my money back. Spencer Kitley: This one does have a bit of an interesting story, and I've told you about this and I don't if know if you remember it. But I mentioned it earlier that this is the that this is the the paper version of this card. I kinda made a b not kinda I made a bonehead mistake and I I made a actually a couple of them in recent times, which is a a bit embarrassing, but I'm here to share because maybe it helps other people, right? yeah. And Mike: who ha who who's never made a bonehead by Spencer Kitley: I thought I was putting an offer in on on the Chrome version of the card, which would have been a really good buy. I but I got it as paper, but even still the pop is low. It it's a great card, it's great imagery, it's an all time great. So I'm still happy with it. I was mad at myself at first. still in position to be on the plus side on from the investment side, but I guess that's what I'm gonna say. To Mike: Well inter interesting point. I I wanna Spencer Kitley: to to to not get too excited when you're looking at stuff and make sure you're you're looking at exactly what you think you're looking at. Mike: Been there, been there many times myself. And also, it's not even just the excitement piece of it. Sometimes I just get in my routine. I'm doing my normal search, I'm doing my normal looking, and I've just I've just set in my ways, and Spencer Kitley: Yeah. Mike: I don't look at some sometimes I don't always follow my process exactly, and I just kind of phone it in. I'm busy, I've got other things going on, I think I'm doing it the right way, but I didn't really double check myself, and I've bought Spencer Kitley: Yeah. Mike: things I shouldn't have bought before. I just wanted to say something quickly about the imagery on. You brought up a really, really interesting point. There are cards that have images on them that are better than others. Period. You said earlier you you said you thought I still had my judge a judge refractor rookie. The one we're talking about is the one where he's jumping up and he's fielding and it's got a you know image of his body and he's putting his glove up. I don't like that image. It's one of my least favorite images. I actually sold that at the same card show that I bought it at. I had a hundred and fifty dollar turn on profit. And I told myself if I can make money on this card today, I will. That is very rare. I mean, when I say rare, I've maybe done that once and it was that card. I like Judge, Spencer Kitley: Yeah. Mike: I like the Yankees. I sold it because I didn't like the image. There are certain pictures on cards that are worth owning over a different card of that individual. So I love the fact that you brought up the imagery because long term Spencer Kitley: Yeah. Yeah, 'cause like if you go look up a twenty twenty fourteen topps Brady, that's not the picture on the car. Alright. This is this is the the image variation. and it's just a cool picture. Yeah. Mike: And you like it because it's different. It's not him passing. It's doing something else. Spencer Kitley: Yeah, like for inst I I also recently I won't I'll I'll steal my heat from a potential future episode. Like I just bought this refractor Brady because he's wearing the old Pat Patriot uniform and it's really cool. And there's o there's only a couple of cards of Brady. this one and I believe the finest from the same year where he's wearing the Pat Patriot uniform. And and it looks cool. And I and I also think br early early refractors of of Brady or Mike: Yep, and so collector investor, you know, part of what we're doing on this this podcast, what we like to talk about is that balance, because you have to think about that balance in today's market. Stuff is worth too much money. Cards are Spencer Kitley: Yeah. Mike: cards are too expensive to simply say, I'm just gonna run out and buy whatever I want. Because you might not even be able to afford to do that. So thinking about it from a perspective of am I taking care of myself financially? Am I being responsible for not just myself, but maybe my family, for my future. If you're spending hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, or millions, depending on your financial situation, the money does matter in the hobby. So I just think about little details like an image on a card. Spence, you love it because you're a collector, but as Spencer Kitley: Yeah. Mike: a collector, you have unique insight into maybe also what other collectors are going to want. Three years, five years, ten years down the road. Things like image on a card does matter to the collecting. Spencer Kitley: Right. Cool. Well so that's that's the the pickups of the week. Let's shift gears real quick to our our next segment, which we don't have a name for yet. We're it's it's a bit of a a hodgepodge, it's a mixed bag, it'll be something different each week, but this week it's gonna be Mike at the Philly Card show, which was two weeks ago or was it last week? It was last week. Mike: Last weekend, yeah. Spencer Kitley: Last weekend he went up to Philly two days at the card show and kinda like tell us about the sh let's not talk about like what you got, but tell us about the show. Mike: Yeah, you know what? And I'm gonna give you a little preamble as well, because I think it matters. I it matters to me as a as a collector and investor in the hobby. What was going on with me before I went up there? How often do I travel to shows? I am super fortunate to be in Austin, Texas. I can go up to Dallas for

one of the world's best shows up there. I can slide over to Houston, I can go down to San Antonio. We've got shows here in Austin. I have four locations within a three to four hour drive. So I'm very fortunate. I was feeling antsy. I've been stressed and busy at work. Life is busy. I just wanted to break away and to do something out of my normal routine. I looked up card shows. I saw the Philly card show was coming up four days after I was really looking, you know, looking looking at the show list. Spencer Kitley: Yeah. Mike: Philly card show is known to be one of the best vintage shows. It's long running, it's big, and it gets a lot of good dealers. Spencer Kitley: It's one of the outside at the National and Dallas and the Burbank card show, it's like Nashville and Philly. And and maybe Sh Chantilly is is another good one. Yeah. Mike: Feel it yeah. It's it's known and it's talked about and especially from a vintage perspective. So I looked online, I jumped in, I used miles, you know, from my flight account and I booked a hotel that wasn't terribly expensive. So I was able to Spencer Kitley: Might might have been a mistake of might have been a mistake of a hotel, but Mike: my god. I'm just gonna say motel six and King of Prussia. Spencer Kitley: They leave the light on. Mike: Probably don't do it if you're listening. Don't do it. The saving money is not worth the stay, I can tell you that. So my god, Spencer Kitley: No. Sell a sell an extra card, get a nice hotel room. Mike: I sh next I'm listening next time I'll do that. I'll spend more on the hotel. So I went up on a a Thursday, the show was on Friday. I slept overnight on Friday, woke up early on Thursday, got there, jumped in. And I was able to go in with the vendors because I had a friend there, and I got in and I got to see the lay of the lay of the land and what it looked like from a show organization perspective. Really, really strong. Super happy with the Philly show. So Thursday I got to go, Friday, I got to go in a little bit early to start, and then I hit the show all day long. I can spend me personally, I can do 10 hours on my feet at a show, and it feels like two. I'm I'm in so deep. I love the conversations with the vendors. The tables at the Philly show were incredible. They had super high end stuff that I wasn't gonna be able you know, I I wasn't gonna put that kind of money down on a table. But they also had really, really entry level stuff where you could go in and fill a vintage set if you wanted. They had a nice mix of modern and they cut across all sports. Spencer Kitley: When when you were going, I I I know you were all you you also took a a decent stash of stuff to to consign with you, which is probably something we'll talk about on another episode, but like when you're going to the show do you do you have a quote like shopping list or or or things that you're looking for? Mike: Yeah, I've got a buying criteria and it really doesn't matter, you know, as long as it fits my

buying criteria. I look A-List Hall of Famers and I tend to lean vintage. I will do 80s and 90s stuff too, but I wasn't going there looking for anything shiny. No refractors, no numbered or serial number, you know, run stuff. I was looking vintage A-List Hall of Famer with really, really high eye appeal. And my goal is to always try to buy that stuff at comp. I say at right now because if we had recorded this six months ago, I would have said or below. You're not getting really good st I appeal stuff anymore below comp. It's not happening. Unless you come across a r a really, really kind of you know, unique v vending. Spencer Kitley: Well, because in reality, the I the good eye appeal stuff is actually probably more than comp, so getting it a comp a is a good deal. Should should I have not said that out loud? Mike: In in right now, absolutely, you are paying above comp. Yeah. Don't don't ruin my mojo in terms of how I buy, but I was buying for years live at card shows and on eBay. I was getting the best highest end I appeal stuff and I was paying under comp. What that does is it it bakes in essentially a margin there where you're gonna be up twenty percent, usually minimum on a card, the moment you buy it. Because with that eye appeal, you could turn around and sell that card to collectors Spencer Kitley: Yeah. Mike: and other investors and make more. That that's my that was my buying style for the longest time. Now the market's gotten savvier, it's sophisticated, the market is growing up and it's catching things like vintage cars and watches and art and wine. And it's it's Spencer Kitley: Yeah. Mike: essentially professionalizing. So it's not as easy to buy anymore and and make instant margin. Spencer Kitley: What's interesting you say that 'cause like like repackers like Arena Club are now doing watches and th and Mike: Yeah. Really? Spencer Kitley: th and things like so you're starting to see some crossover in in in those type of areas. So like size wise what's a what's it look like? Okay. Mike: Yeah. The Philly show, you asked about the Philly show. I went there with a hundred thousand plus tables. Ever everyone was there. The grading companies there were were there. You know, Greg Morris Consigning was there, Four Sharp Corners was there, MBA Spencer Kitley: Did happen to have a conversation with anyone like I've been the national, you haven't, and did you ever happen to talk to anyone that could compare and contrast that show to the national while you were there? Or is that not something that came up? Mike: The national is just I mean, I I didn't specifically ask anybody that question. I talked to dozens, dozens of card people. I mean I'm very I I love people anyway. So for me going up to a table is as much talking to the dealer as it is looking at their stuff. Spencer Kitley: Mike Mike likes to go up to a table for hours at one table. I'll be like, let's go. Mike: It drives Spencer nuts and other people if I go to shows. I love the market. I love cards. I love hearing about people's perspectives. I want to know what's going on. I want to educate myself and always stay current on what's happening on both sides of the table and the hobby as a whole. It makes me sharper, you know, and better at doing what I do from a financial perspective. But also I get clued into things that I otherwise would never know about. So b the show, what do I give it on a 10 scale from all shows I've been to? it's a nine. At nine, nine five. Yeah, really good show. Spencer Kitley: So real really, really good show. Might have been better if you had if you had booked a better hotel right there in proximity. It may even be better when Mike: One hundred percent. Spencer Kitley: your when your Greg Morris consignment starts starts popping for ya. Mike: I submitted to Greg Morris, I did a hundred and eighty three cards that were duplicates of cards that I had been able to upgrade over time, or cards that I was just done owning. Spencer Kitley: At least you think it was Greg Morris. It was s back of some guy's car, so you don't know if it was actually Greg Morris. Mike: I hope that was Drew from Greg Morris. Yeah, we had to go I I grabbed him off of his booth and we went outside to do you know to do the transaction. But I also walked away with twenty-three cards. So I let go of a hundred and eighty-three and I walked out with twenty-three that were all upgrades and investments. One of them was Roger. Yep. That was the first card I bought Spencer Kitley: And one of those was that Roger Marez card we we saw earlier. And I'm sure in Mike: there. Spencer Kitley: Yeah, and I'm sure in in the coming weeks we will we will probably hear and see some more of those cards that you you bought right here on Top Loaded. Mike: Absolutely. And you can also see them on my Instagram account. My Instagram is Centered Sports Cards. You can reach out to me there. you know, my name is Mike. You can message me. I'll exchange information. I'm happy to talk about, you know, collecting, investing, what my perspective and my approach is, which we'll get to over time. So we can connect that way and hopefully Spence and I be able keep this going as well. Spencer Kitley: Absolutely. You can find me at after reality sports cards. My posting has slowed, but I'm still very active on there. I actually made a deal on on on on Instagram yesterday on a Roger Clumins card that I was excited to get from Mike: What? Spencer Kitley: my friend Mike Giuseppe over at Sports Cards Nonsense. And and you and all of our socials will start popping here soon. Top loaded podcast on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, wherever you might find us and we really look for Forward to hanging out in the hobby with you here on the Top Loaded Podcast. We'll see you again soon. Keep on, keeping on.