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Sarah Oliver: Hello out there in podcast land. We are here for another episode of elephants in the practice room. am Sarah Oliver, your host. I'm here with my good friend, ⁓ Tavares. Did I say it right? All right, Tavares. Good I mean, I've been her friend for a minute, but I just now learned how to say her last name. How not friend material is that? Anyway, anyway.
Mary: You did? Thanks. It's all good. ⁓
Sarah Oliver: Anyway, so Mary and I are here to talk today about an elephant that is pretty prevalent in not just the practice room, but all through society. And so we thought it was really ⁓ to bring today to talk about community and how it can be really helpful when we are dealing with burnout and just feeling like you're not sure which way to turn next, what should be next in your plan, maybe your career, just life in general, and ⁓ community, good supportive community can be really, really helpful ⁓ in times these. So ⁓ Mary, why you tell our audience a little bit about you? If you don't mind.
Mary: Yeah, okay. Absolutely. So I am a full-time Pilates teacher. taught for about ⁓ years full-time. ⁓ that, I taught part-time yoga, some other group X classes, TRX, ⁓ then I had a big gap. I started teaching right during college, actually. I was a health and physical education major, exercise science, concentration, and I started teaching yoga my last year of school, and then I taught for about four years, and then I said... I can't do this for a living and I didn't really value what I am good at and I didn't really understand like this is what I'm good at. So I need to like hone this skill. And so I went back to grad school for environmental studies. It was great and worked for a couple of years and then I had trouble getting a job. So it kind of forced me to get back into teaching and I started teaching part time and then was able to eventually teach full time. And so I've taught I guess up to 47 classes a week, which I don't recommend like full
Sarah Oliver: Whoa, whoa.
Mary: Burnout territory then have moved over the like it was like the first couple years and then moved into 36 that was still burnt still not ideal and now I'm at 26 and which is pretty good. Pretty balanced, yeah. And we have the same Sarah and I have the same communities that we connect to that are not in the US there. Read education in Australia.
Sarah Oliver: as intense.
Mary: And then Adam McAtee, evidence-based Pilates. He's actually in the US, he's in California. But I think around the new year, I kind of felt like, I need to just plug myself in, just to be getting what I need every week and be able to talk to people that think the same way and I can ask questions and both communities are research-based, which is really, really helpful. Yeah.
Sarah Oliver: Absolutely. Yeah. and research shows that first of all, feeling like you can ask for help and or support is the first step. And so many people don't really feel like they can, initially, and they just feel like this sense of loneliness or no one getting it. Or I know I feel that way a lot. ⁓ I tend to kind of be that person that has the contrary view. ⁓
Mary: Mm-hmm.
Sarah Oliver: And, asks a lot of questions and that can make a lot of people feel either defensive or just like I'm, you know, trying to be difficult or, it's not the intent, right? It's, just trying to understand. Um, so what kind of, what kind of made you feel, you said like, you wanted to get plugged in then in the new year, like what kind of made you feel like number one, you needed to take that step and.
Mary: Yeah.
Sarah Oliver: or like you could.
Mary: I think feeling that wasn't being fed ⁓ so my output wasn't gonna be as strong and it wasn't gonna be quality if I wasn't getting what I felt like I just I don't even know how to put words into it because I'm trying to remember feeling like I needed support and ⁓
Sarah Oliver: Hmm.
Mary: And I'm a, yeah, I don't know how to, I don't want to sound bad, but like feeling like I'm surrounded by people, but not necessarily people that on the same page, like like-minded about Pilates. And the part that I like about you that you're asking questions is like, that's, there's like a frustration, at least to me, there's like a frustration of in the Pilates world because I have that undergrad degree and health and exercise science, I would learn things and I would learn things in the yoga world too. And I'm like, yeah, I just feel confused. something just doesn't, I don't feel confident sharing that information because it doesn't feel strong and like concrete in me to share it. So I need, and what I've found out is that it's because it's not evidence-based. Like if I'm like, I don't know about that, like that just doesn't make sense. And I see a lot of that stuff too now on social media.
Sarah Oliver: and
Mary: is because that's my meter for being like, hey, maybe that's bullshit. So I need to, there's a reason that I feel confused and that I need to ask questions and that I need to find like clarity before I, yeah.
Sarah Oliver: Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I totally, totally agree with that. I think that that's, felt the same, you know, in the Pilates space. Also, long before the Pilates space, I always had music, right? So I felt that way in the music realm, like since childhood, right? And ⁓ I'm not like ⁓ as a did you ask a lot of questions where you kind of always, yeah. So I think it's kind of an inborn, that's just you.
Mary: Yeah.
Sarah Oliver: Right. ⁓ So you just kind of want to know why. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And it's good to know like that there are other people out there feeling that same way. And
Mary: Yeah, I didn't accept a status quo. Yeah, sorry.
Sarah Oliver: you know, and to be able to check in with those people. Mary and I have also ⁓ another little subgroup here in the US and you know, we just have like a chat, the text thread and we just sometimes, you know, vent ⁓ and ask a question that we're like, Hey, I thought this, what do
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you guys think? You know, so just kind of having a sounding board, being able to, to ask those questions and not feel.
Mary: Thank
Sarah Oliver: Like you're going to be ostracized or you are going to feel stupid asking the question, right? in fact, Mary and I were supposed to actually talk about another very nerdy, you know, science based topic. And, I was real with her yesterday and said, Hey, I, I've been doing this research and I, ⁓ I don't feel prepared to. to make these statements. Like I want to research more before this out as ⁓ I believe. And she was like, yeah, I totally understand. And then we started to talk about what else could we talk about? And it's just like the answer was clear. Like, well, why don't we just talk about this? Like being able to talk to each other in real terms. I when I was doing this research, I was... feeling very frustrated because I was like, well, I thought this, then I found this and what about that? And I know I'm being very vague about ⁓ what was researching, but it was a very ⁓ biomechanical you know, after talking to Mary, like I haven't even told Mary this yet, but like just being able to talk to Mary and her tell me, hey, why don't you look into X to kind of clarify this for yourself? And I'm like, yeah, that's a great thought. And I did. just, just getting off the phone with her, like, I've just felt better. I just felt like, okay, there's, there's a, there's a way forward. Like somebody else validated I'm feeling. Like, you know, it just can be really, really helpful.
Mary: you
Sarah Oliver: where, and also, so I think, think this is an example of where you can get perspective too, right? Like we can all get perspective and just joining in with our friends and people who are like-minded, like you're saying. Connection is one of those things that is proven by evidence help people with burnout. you know, cause
Mary: Thank
Sarah Oliver: It's a real thing and it's particularly thing ⁓ people's workplace. More than anything, right? We're seeing ⁓ and this time of year, it can be really big for people who are teachers and or students. You know, we're getting we're the very end of the semester here and. People are just ready, you know, ⁓ the social calendar starts to pick up. You know, there's a lot more commitments out there and. being able to like really find this connection of sorts that like you said, Mary, like not just being around people to be around people, like that's not always gonna fill your cup, right? Well, or as it's often like draining, right? If you're around the wrong people and a source of frustration, right? ⁓
Mary: Yeah. Totally.
Sarah Oliver: So what are some other things that you valuable about the communities that you've kind of sought out and found? And first of all, how did you even find these communities?
Mary: Yeah. ⁓ so I was living in another, in a different apartment building and it didn't have, they didn't have washers and dryers in the units. So I had to spend four hours every weekend when I was teaching like six a week, I would spend like a whole weekend day doing laundry. And I'm like, this is just a waste of my life. I have to make this ⁓ ⁓ how can I make this not a waste of my life? So I started listening to, I was looking for podcasts on Pilates and I found
Sarah Oliver: Mm-hmm.
Mary: Pauati's Elephants. And I'm like, so it made me, it made that time actually not a waste. And then it actually really changed my life because I, then I did the cert through them and then I did the diploma. But I had already started teaching in a more athletic way. And I'd, was a physical therapist that, that put out a lot of really good information that was evidence-based that I had done some workshops with and I would kind of listen to her stuff and,
Sarah Oliver: Mm-hmm.
Mary: And then I was doing resistance training and that program is really evidence-based. So I would listen to that PT's podcast too. And I'm like, you know, why am I having somebody, what we were taught to do is lightweight for like 10 reps, like eight to 10 reps for former exercises. I'm like, that doesn't make sense. Why don't I put them on a heavier spring and do like 20 reps? And it turns out that that's like how to make your, how to incorporate strength training into Pilates is like get them into your fatigue and under 20 reps. So. ⁓
Sarah Oliver: you Sure.
Mary: I going through the difficult time of like being, I would say, definitely say bullied, like at my old job of like, they didn't like my teaching style. They didn't like me speaking out. Like, you know, I was overworked, underpaid. And so then I'm like, well, then I found Breathe and I'm like, I think I should probably go in this direction and like to have some support in my life. Like how I, the direction that I'm already going in it, and it really supported that. And so that's how I found Breathe. And then.
Sarah Oliver: Mm-hmm.
Mary: Then I found Adam McAtee, because he was one of my trainers, and then he started his own business. And I met you because you heard me venting Heath. And that wasn't even what the discussion was about that day. It was like a ⁓ group ⁓ He threw it out, like, hey, do you have anything to talk about? ⁓ And just came out because I didn't have anybody to talk about it with anywhere, of like, hey, the owner is telling people to not go to my classes because they have pain, and I'm going to hurt them or something.
Sarah Oliver: Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Mary: So I brought that up and then you listened to the recording and reached out to me on Instagram and you were like, we have to stick together. ⁓ like, we do. ⁓ ⁓
Sarah Oliver: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, because I yeah, I remember hearing that recording and was like, my gosh, I I'm feeling the exact same way. Like I have to reach out and and like so I think that again, like not being afraid to just just say, hey, ⁓ I see you. I hear you. I'm I'm I'm one of you. And but it sounds like
Mary: Mm-hmm.
Sarah Oliver: What struck me about what you were saying just now about how you found your communities was essentially you have this, this spidey sense about you wanted to do with your teaching and what made sense to you. But then you ⁓ into that, right? So you leaned into your truth, your authenticity, and that yielded your community, right?
Mary: Mm-hmm.
Sarah Oliver: And so, guessing that when you get off ⁓ of these calls with your community, you're feeling more empowered, more ⁓ yourself. Yeah. Yeah.
Mary: Yeah, more like alive, more connected. My brain is engaged like, ⁓ wow, this is, this is, ideally it would be in the physical surroundings. Like ideally I could, ⁓ that's not how the world works. But fortunately we have, you know, we're all connected now virtually. So we can find, you can find the people that you connect with when you can't find them, whatever environment that you're in.
Sarah Oliver: Yeah. and Virtually, yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like you can be in rural Iowa and find people in, you China that that are identifying with how you're feeling. And it's remarkable that there's no there's shortage. Now, I do think.
Mary: Mm-hmm.
Sarah Oliver: you know, our small subgroup is all US people. And I think that that's helpful because we all kind of understand culturally more what we're going through here. But what let's, let's just kind of like brainstorm if you didn't have the online, you ⁓ resources, just in general, like what are some other ways people can find their community just in.
Mary: Yeah. ⁓ yeah. ⁓ yeah.
Sarah Oliver: Like face to face, because not everything is too like not everyone feels fed virtually right? Even though the evidence does support. You know connection via via the Internet. It's still like viable and helpful to people and data shows that, but. What are some other like? Do you have any in person community that currently or?
Mary: Yeah. I guess the good, so I used to work at, I used to teach yoga at a gym and I taught there for like seven years and it was just like a, it's a crunch gym, just like a franchise. I taught a class, it was like half yoga, half Pilates and that gym just brought so many people in that I ended up having like forming a friend group through that class and we all still keep in touch. And some of them have moved away like to different, you know.
Sarah Oliver: Mm-hmm.
Mary: different cities, but so yeah, we had community every week and during the pandemic when they shut the gym down and then they opened it but nobody wanted to go back. we would meet on Zoom twice a week. I'm like, why don't I just keep teaching? I teach twice a week and we would do yoga and we would talk and then we would eat our dinner on Zoom, ⁓ was really cool. And then we would meet.
Sarah Oliver: Amazing. Amazing.
Mary: at one of the couple's houses and we would be outside and we would just stay outside and like bring dinner and do yoga outside. yeah, and that just formed through the gym. And one of the guys that I met
early on, I met another girl through where I used to go to PT and then they met and then he was really interested in her and now they're engaged. So yeah, so like there are couples and they're some of my close friends, but.
Sarah Oliver: Amazing. wow, that's awesome. you
Mary: Yeah, and that was all like completely unintentional. just, you know, so that was really cool.
Sarah Oliver: Wow, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah, I think COVID did kind of yield some unexpected for a lot of people. It kind got us back to. what matters in some ways, right? So that was ⁓ cool. But again, you're saying these people came together because they had kind of a shared goal, right? They cared about, you know, moving their bodies. And I think that can be a really big way for people to meet for sure. It does get harder and harder as we get older to make friends, right? And to just even being willing to say like,
Mary: Yeah.
Sarah Oliver: Hey, I think you're pretty cool. Like, do you want to get lunch? Right? And it not be weird. It's like hard. It's really hard.
Mary: Mm-hmm. That's the thing is all these people were super open. Like everybody was super, like of the first women that I met actually, so she's a flutist, like that's lifelong flutist and ⁓ and teaches. And so she is, you know, just started, ⁓ started chatting with me and then another girl and then a guy walked in and he's just like, Hey, you know, is this open to everybody? And it's just like, yeah. And then he brought his girlfriend. And then it was just like,
Sarah Oliver: Yeah, okay. Mmm. Amazing.
Mary: Everybody was like uninhibited in a way of, was too cool to just up to somebody else and be like, hey, ⁓ can this class? Yeah.
Sarah Oliver: Amazing. And you think it was because of the pandemic?
Mary: ⁓ this was before. This was before. Yeah. This was this was a few years before the pandemic and then we just stuck together through it. Yeah.
Sarah Oliver: ⁓ before. Okay. So was there anything that you attributed those people's just freedom to like freedom to talk? Yeah. Yeah.
Mary: I think it was probably their personality. think that they're just open. And I think the gym at that time was like very conducive. It was such a mix of ages and like everybody that that was just kind of the culture there. It was like people just come here and they meet and like it's crunch gym and crunch gym like one of their, I think one of their values is like diversity. So they, that's just kind of pervasive in that gym's culture, but. Yeah, it was just a really cool place. was a new neighborhood that was being developed. the studio where I teach is actually in that same neighborhood. And the argument now is that the community is overdeveloped. It's like an old industrial zone, and they've made it apartments and gyms. But the gym was one of the first things. So people that were moving in there were coming. We could walk very easily and go to dinner. so I think
Sarah Oliver: That's great. Mmm. Great. Great.
Mary:
just even from like a development standpoint, neighborhood brings like so many people ⁓ it. I would say in a very poorly developed ⁓ There's we need some streetlights and we need some trees and it's like urban planning nightmare, but it ⁓ pulls a of people into it. So then a lot of people end up meeting there. Yeah.
Sarah Oliver: Right. Yeah. Yeah. And it sounds like, this just proves another thing that evidence shows us is, is that share, when you share, you know, ⁓ sounds like these people really got a lot of joy from meeting each other and doing the thing that they're interested in. And then that just in turn creates joy for others. Right. Like when you're
Mary: Yep.
Sarah Oliver: when you're creating a better space for those around you and really seeing people and kind of getting outside yourself, that can also be, you know, really uplifting. So yeah. And, know, if you're out there and you, you know, Mary and I obviously are very into movement and what we do, ⁓ we love it. And so we, we find joy in helping others to move better and, know, get stronger, more freedom in their, in their bodies.
Mary: Yeah, exactly.
Sarah Oliver: But if that's not you today, you're just more of a one-on-one person, right? You just ⁓ talk to your friend on the phone. Maybe that's your connection, that's your source of ⁓ recharge. It doesn't have to be with leaving your house even. It can just be calling somebody over Zoom or picking the phone or ⁓ just having a conversation matters to you. Or maybe even just like, I don't know, go old school, write something. I would say write a letter, but that might be too old school. Right. ⁓ an email to somebody, right? You know, I think for a lot of people, like a spiritual center can be really big, whether you're, you know, part of the community there, ⁓ that can really helpful and uplifting. You know, whether a synagogue, anything that, you know,
Mary: Yep.
Sarah Oliver: really speaks to you and you feel like there's community there that can be uplifting as well. I know one of the things that my partner and I do is we volunteer And so that be another, again, community. So often, I shouldn't so often in case anybody listens, but Saturday night, the night I'm often like, ugh. I don't want to go. I just want to sleep in. I just want to stay home tomorrow. I don't want to do it because we go like leave it at eight in the morning to go, you but every time we go, I'm like, I'm so glad we went and it's just so uplifting to like help others. Right. So that can be a source of connection to. Anyway. So, Mary, any other tips for people out there and finding their community and finding their connection. Well, I do think that there is research. don't know the exact research out there, but that when you share a meal with people, actually connects you in a different way. It might help to relax you in some way. I again, I don't know that this is all based science, but I mean, if you're just open, ⁓ and again, the same page and maybe put you at ease, go ahead.
Mary: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Oh, yeah, I remember. I remember what it was. So we had an Earth Day. I live in an apartment complex and it's actually like a really nice community. I've met a ton of people here, which I didn't expect to, but we have a pool, we have a clubhouse. We have this clubhouse in the middle and I go there every morning because the sun comes in. So I'm like, I get my sunlight. I get my cardio, like my 150 minutes cardio a week. Like I get the quota for healthy adults and I, you know, get to like think and
Sarah Oliver: Mm-hmm. Great. Hey, awesome. Awesome. Right. Amazing. Okay. Good for you.
Mary: But they have these events and it was like Earth Day and like, you know, I'm like, oh yeah, it's Earth Day. I forgot about that. Like people don't think about Earth Day, but they had like, I'm like, I know they're going to have, they gave away free plants. They're like, come and get like succulents. They were like going to give these plants away. And I'm like, yeah, like I love plants. So I'm like, I'm going and I was going to go and like get my plant and leave. And then I went and I met this woman and there was probably like eight people in the beginning. And so I met her and she's like, oh, I love yoga.
Sarah Oliver: Mmm.
Mary: you know, you should teach them classes here. And then I'm like, well, I'm going to try to meet some other people once I get my cookies and my cupcake and I'm to sit down. We were there for like two hours. Like we were all in, it was like a very big span. So I think people went for like free stuff and they ended up meeting. I met this guy that lives here who's a firefighter and we were talking about fitness and they have to climb a hundred foot ladder.
Sarah Oliver: Yeah. Wow. Awesome. Great.
Mary: like straight into the air just to qualify. I was like, what do you have to do from a physical fitness standpoint? You know, and he's like, well, you know, you have to climb this ladder. I learned all this stuff, but then it really kind of we ended up getting into like a very serious, not pretty serious conversation that was like really supportive for like one of the people there. So, ⁓ yeah, and that was fully unexpected. And it was just because they had free cookies and cupcakes and like free. ⁓
Sarah Oliver: Mm-hmm. Wow. Wow. Wow. Great. Wow, yeah. Yeah. And plants.
Mary: Yeah, and I got two. Yeah, I was like, yeah, so.
Sarah Oliver: That's awesome. That's such a good story. Yeah. It's just, again, people being there for other people. And like you said, you're meeting all these different types of people. And then not that I'm looking for the ulterior motive, but think about like, I don't know, you meet somebody in some profession and then you like need their services later and you're like, oh yeah, I know this person. Like I don't even have.
Mary: Sure.
Sarah Oliver: to like go find a stranger. Like I already know somebody who's a lawyer or a plumber, whatever. Right. So that's pretty cool ⁓ to
kind of get it from a perspective too, from different ⁓ of life. ⁓ that's cool. Great.
Mary: Yeah. ⁓ yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it was a good example. Because I'm trying to think of other ways to just meet random people. I mean, I would usually like volunteering, like you were talking about. It's like the way that I met people in the past was like environmental volunteering. Yeah. It's a very similar, like Breathe Education is very similar.
Sarah Oliver: Big time. Yeah, yeah. Great. Yeah.
Mary: feel to when I was a kid I did gymnastics and it was like, you know, three, four days a week, like four hour practices, like, and that was my hub for everything, like learning about, you know, about the sport, but learning about so many other things that were connected to it. And that's exactly how that community felt. ⁓ very enriching, ⁓ just an enriching thing to be a part of.
Sarah Oliver: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Yeah. Yeah. And I think again, it goes back to where you feeling that enrichment. Like it's not going to be the same for every single person. Right. So you just have to kind of keep trying and, and be open and, and, and see that I think so often for people who are high achievers and, or, you know, drilled to kind of produce like myself. And I'm sure you too, Mary, you seem driven.
Mary: Mm-hmm. I need goals. Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah Oliver: Yeah, yeah, like, and musicians in general, like their goal, their goal oriented, right? that taking the time to and or do something that's not work is sometimes really hard. It's sometimes really like, what? is like a waste of time or ⁓ this is delay my success in X, right? ⁓ But I that's really kind of sometimes when the magic happens, like when you leave the space to explore these other things and like.
Mary: Mm-hmm. Great.
Sarah Oliver: meet people and find these connections and maybe allow yourself to kind of find more where you're supposed to be in the moment. So it can really just fill your cup. No, so go ahead.
Mary: Yeah. Do you find that it's similar? ⁓ sorry. Do you find that it's similar in the music community? Like, how does that parallel to the fitness to the Pilates community in terms of how do you stay connected to other musicians and how do you meet other musicians and
Sarah Oliver: Hmm. Such a good, such a good thought. Yeah. So mean, I'll be honest, there's, there's, I don't feel like there is a very good support network out there. And that's one of the things that I'm trying to do with, you know, my business Studio De Capo is trying to allow people to have that support. ⁓ the ⁓
Mary: Mm-hmm.
Sarah Oliver: orchestras, you know, if you if you're fortunate enough to land a job and stay in that job, then yes, there can be relationships forged. But so often it's such a transient community that people are just in for this gig, that gig. And so I think we really do have to work hard to when we are at the gigs, when we are around our colleagues, which ⁓ always often.
Mary: Yeah.
Sarah Oliver: It's a lot of ⁓ a, it can be a lonely profession, right? To really make the effort talk to people. mean, and I think so often because our profession is in a lot of judgment. ⁓ It can be, and this is another reason why I feel this parallel with, you know, the Pilates world is there's a lot of judgment out there. ⁓ And a lot of people ⁓
Mary: Yep. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Sarah Oliver: sort of operating from this traditional way of thinking. And the music world is very much the same. Like there's not often a lot of ⁓ for questioning and or growth. And that's kind of what that's kind of what fuels me to keep going with Studio de Capo is modernizing the that we're training and thinking and operating in this in this culture. So.
Mary: Yeah. It's awesome.
Sarah Oliver: Keep going. Yeah, so I, yes.
Mary: It seems like the same supports would be needed. Like a musician would need certain types of input supports ⁓ be able to maintain their craft. ⁓
Sarah Oliver: Yeah, their craft, their sanity. And that is kind of what I'm such perfect lead at. Mary did not know this, ⁓ but ⁓ she kind of led me into talking about the fact that I am, you know, been trying different things, but I'm still really wanting to build this, this community for musicians. And so I'm actually crafting a new survey for feedback as to how people would be best served, because this is, this community is for you. And I do have that hope that it is this like enriching, empowering place that people just feel like they can go out and keep being themselves and keep doing what they love, right? So that survey is gonna be in the show notes. So you can definitely fill that out. Even if you're listening to this recording like months after the fact, so love to hear your feedback and I'll be putting it out in the newsletter. which by the way, if you want to get on and on the newsletter, just go to the website, sign up their studio dash to capo.com. That'll be in the show notes too. Why not? Anyway. All right, Mary, anything else to chat about today?
Mary: Very cool. Hmm. think I'm OK. I mean, I ⁓ go into random topics, but. ⁓
Sarah Oliver: Okay, well we'll get Mary on again, because I'm sure we have plenty more to discuss that's relevant here. So anyway, well we hope you have a good rest of your day and Mary, thanks so much for the awesome chat. All right, bye.
Mary: Yeah. Thanks, Sarah.