رونوشت کامل Discussing Sorel's 'Reflections on Violence' with Thomas777 - Complete

monarchist 69 00:04:05.719 --> 00:04:07.939 right and the reactionary right as much as they were 70 00:04:07.969 --> 00:04:13.030 a reaction against Marxist-Leninism. And then National Socialism was a 71 00:04:13.069 --> 00:04:18.589 reaction to that in dialectical terms. Some premises that were 72 00:04:18.629 --> 00:04:21.459 hostile and some that were not. But that's the way 73 00:04:21.480 --> 00:04:25.300 to understand George Sorrell. And in America, when people think 74 00:04:25.319 --> 00:04:28.019 of the right, you know, they think of, they, they 75 00:04:28.040 --> 00:04:32.970 think of, they think of Jeffersonians who, you know, like, 76 00:04:33.089 --> 00:04:35.370 like John C. Calhoun, or they think of like America 77 00:04:35.430 --> 00:04:38.490 first guys in the 21st century, you know, and like 78 00:04:38.509 --> 00:04:41.620 the Tafty Republicans who were, you know, who were anti-New 79 00:04:41.629 --> 00:04:45.399 Deal and anti-interventionists. And, and both of those guys, I mean, 80 00:04:45.480 --> 00:04:49.120 even the latter, obviously they were kind of traditional Hamiltonian nationalists, but, 81 00:04:49.560 --> 00:04:51.500 you know, their whole idea is, you know, like get 82 00:04:51.519 --> 00:04:57.199 the government off your back, you know, you know, and, and, and, 83 00:04:57.279 --> 00:05:00.160 and decentralized authority and, you know, the kind of hustle 84 00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:02.800 on the, on their own terms, the, the kind of 85 00:05:02.860 --> 00:05:08.490 class identities that most kind of European paradigms suggest are, 86 00:05:08.870 --> 00:05:13.129 are what informs political reality. But Sorrell wasn't a class warrior. 87 00:05:13.149 --> 00:05:16.389 And like, we'll get into that, you know, like his Sorrell's, his, 88 00:05:16.790 --> 00:05:21.399 his kind of, he was, like Nietzsche did before, he viewed, 89 00:05:22.139 --> 00:05:25.339 Sorrell viewed culture as like peaking early, you know, like 90 00:05:25.360 --> 00:05:29.220 the pre-Socratic era, you know, like the pre-Peloponnesian war era 91 00:05:29.339 --> 00:05:31.689 of Dora Gathans. That's what Sorrell, that's what Sorrell thought 92 00:05:31.709 --> 00:05:35.610 was like the zenith of like human culture and political organization. 93 00:05:35.910 --> 00:05:37.850 Like it wasn't some guy who was saying like, oh, 94 00:05:37.870 --> 00:05:39.910 we just got to give, and he wasn't even, he 95 00:05:39.930 --> 00:05:42.670 wasn't even like, he wasn't even like the, the Stéphane 96 00:05:42.709 --> 00:05:45.790 George circle or like Ernst Junger. He wasn't even saying like, oh, 97 00:05:45.810 --> 00:05:47.329 we just, we just got to inundate, you know, the 98 00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:50.750 working class. with some kind of like patriotic or like 99 00:05:50.810 --> 00:05:54.009 racialized identity. He wasn't saying that at all. He was 100 00:05:54.050 --> 00:05:57.209 saying that, you know, there's a way, there's a way 101 00:05:57.230 -->

00:06:01.100 to insinuate into revolutionary consciousness among the workers, like something 102 00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:03.600 that's like culturally elevated, you know, and that that will 103 00:06:03.620 --> 00:06:06.620 change things and, you know, educate people in a way that, 104 00:06:07.240 --> 00:06:09.980 you know, is progressive, not progressive with a capital P, but, 105 00:06:10.379 --> 00:06:13.430 you know, is, is progressive in terms of, you know, 106 00:06:13.509 --> 00:06:17.149 allowing them to conceptualize themselves and conceptualize, you know, political 107 00:06:17.310 --> 00:06:20.430 action in ways outside of this, like, narrow, like, paradigm of, like, 108 00:06:20.910 --> 00:06:23.879 you know, hostility to capital and, you know, control of 109 00:06:23.939 --> 00:06:26.980 one's labor and, you know, like, material justice in terms of, 110 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:29.100 you know, getting paid for one's labor. Like, you view 111 00:06:29.120 --> 00:06:31.079 that as kind of banal. You know, not like that's 112 00:06:31.100 --> 00:06:33.819 not important. Obviously, it's important, but it can't be the 113 00:06:33.959 --> 00:06:37.829 end-all purpose of your political activity. And it certainly doesn't 114 00:06:37.870 --> 00:06:41.800 rationalize you know, like murdering your own countrymen wholesale. I mean, 115 00:06:41.819 --> 00:06:44.680 if that's what it comes down to, because that's, you know, 116 00:06:44.699 --> 00:06:47.319 what the proverbial gods ordain, okay, I mean, you've got 117 00:06:47.339 --> 00:06:49.360 to deal with that in a manly and serious way 118 00:06:49.939 --> 00:06:52.060 and in a stoic way, but that's not something you 119 00:06:52.160 --> 00:06:56.870 pine for just because, you know, it's like, well, you know, 120 00:06:57.329 --> 00:06:59.170 God is dead, so we've just got to find some 121 00:06:59.189 --> 00:07:02.089 kind of catalyst, you know, for violence that can be 122 00:07:02.149 --> 00:07:04.470 rationalized in the language of the day. 123 00:07:04.509 --> 00:07:06.509 Like, he wasn't saying that at all. But, yeah. 124 00:07:08.120 --> 00:07:10.720 So let's talk a little bit about this, because this is, 125 00:07:10.740 --> 00:07:15.000 I mean, I've even written a little bit on this recently. 126 00:07:15.100 --> 00:07:22.220 It's the socialist right. When you say, well, the National 127 00:07:22.300 --> 00:07:27.060 Socialists were on the right, people lose their minds. I mean, 128 00:07:27.810 --> 00:07:30.110 mind you, these are the same people who used the 129 00:07:30.149 --> 00:07:34.439 term capitalism and don't realize where the, you know, they 130 00:07:34.480 --> 00:07:36.620 know where the term came from. So they're like, well, 131 00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:40.620 we're just taking that term for ourself. And I think 132 00:07:40.680 --> 00:07:43.060 what they would say is the difference between the left 133 00:07:43.100 --> 00:07:49.350 and the right is egalitarianism. The

left is egalitarian. So 134 00:07:49.790 --> 00:07:52.829 was the socialist right egalitarian? 135 00:07:53.970 --> 00:07:57.490 Not in the sense of like, like not, not, not 136 00:07:57.550 --> 00:08:01.589 in a biological sense and not in, not in the 137 00:08:01.629 --> 00:08:06.610 way that, like not in the way that in contemporary 138 00:08:06.670 --> 00:08:09.230 discourse people think of it. And I'll qualify it, too. 139 00:08:09.290 --> 00:08:12.139 Even a lot of people, a lot of people should 140 00:08:12.180 --> 00:08:16.420 know better, misunderstand, too, what Marxian equality was. You know, 141 00:08:16.439 --> 00:08:19.079 the whole, like the secular humanists, they've taken, you know, 142 00:08:19.100 --> 00:08:21.899 the idea of, quote, human dignity and kind of extrapolated 143 00:08:21.930 --> 00:08:24.629 all kinds of strange things out of it. But Marx, 144 00:08:25.410 --> 00:08:27.709 I've got nothing nice to say about Marx and Lenin. 145 00:08:28.180 --> 00:08:30.800 When Marx was talking about, quote, equality, he was talking 146 00:08:30.839 --> 00:08:35.220 about a kind of equal dignity across the class divide 147 00:08:35.740 --> 00:08:38.519 and across, you know, kind of like the, you know, 148 00:08:38.580 --> 00:08:44.230 and eliminating these kind of contrived distinctions between people based 149 00:08:44.279 --> 00:08:50.330 on rank, you know, and from there, you know, like 150 00:08:50.370 --> 00:08:55.450 affording a kind of elevated dignity to the workers whom, 151 00:08:55.629 --> 00:09:01.049 you know, in his estimation, were the ones responsible for 152 00:09:01.090 --> 00:09:04.330 generating the wealth of the nation. He wasn't saying, oh, 153 00:09:04.370 --> 00:09:06.879 men and women are exactly the same, or there's no 154 00:09:06.940 --> 00:09:10.539 differences in intelligence between men. That's a weird kind of 155 00:09:10.679 --> 00:09:19.570 cope that post-1945 cope that people wanted to kind of maintain. 156 00:09:20.370 --> 00:09:22.809 People who were not going to attack the capitalist system 157 00:09:22.950 --> 00:09:25.029 on structural terms you know, that was kind of like 158 00:09:25.070 --> 00:09:27.710 what they'd invoke in order to say, like, no, actually, like, 159 00:09:27.830 --> 00:09:31.529 we're more morally sound than, you know, than the Marxists 160 00:09:32.309 --> 00:09:35.389 in the Soviet Union and their satellite states. So that's 161 00:09:35.409 --> 00:09:39.789 important to keep in mind. But the idea of socialism, 162 00:09:39.809 --> 00:09:42.509 you know, it didn't originate with Marx. And that was 163 00:09:42.549 --> 00:09:45.049 one of Spengler's important points. Like, even if you don't 164 00:09:45.070 --> 00:09:47.649 accept Spengler's view of history, and you think it's like, 165 00:09:47.669 --> 00:09:54.049 you know, just kind of needlessly esoteric and mystical, his essay, 166 00:09:56.169 --> 00:10:00.240 Let's say Prussianism and socialism, and then later... to a 167 00:10:00.279 --> 00:10:03.840 lesser degree his book i mean it's yeah it's like 168 00:10:03.879 --> 00:10:05.860 a longer i say that it's been turned it's been 169 00:10:05.899 --> 00:10:10.899 beefed up with like secondary um analyses um but uh 170 00:10:10.980 --> 00:10:15.840 the hour of decision like Basically, the modern state as 171 00:10:15.899 --> 00:10:19.299 we know it in structural terms, like, owes to the 172 00:10:19.340 --> 00:10:22.570 Prussian state, okay? Everything from the military draft, you know, 173 00:10:22.610 --> 00:10:26.049 to public education, you know, to having, like, pensions for 174 00:10:26.090 --> 00:10:30.970 retired people. Like, that came from the Prussians, okay? And, 175 00:10:30.990 --> 00:10:33.950 I mean, even– that's literally why in America, too, like, 176 00:10:33.990 --> 00:10:36.259 early education is kindergarten, okay? 177 00:10:36.299 --> 00:10:38.139 Like, it's not an accident, okay? 178 00:10:38.179 --> 00:10:41.370 I mean, so– That's some and there's something to be 179 00:10:41.450 --> 00:10:43.629 openly acknowledged, like it's not so much anymore. 180 00:10:43.649 --> 00:10:45.090 I mean, some of that's political, some of that's just 181 00:10:45.110 --> 00:10:46.669 because people are kind of ignorant. 182 00:10:46.730 --> 00:10:50.220 But, you know, it's not like it's not like when 183 00:10:50.240 --> 00:10:54.179 Marx and Engels put their proverbial ink to paper. It's 184 00:10:54.220 --> 00:10:56.519 not like it's not like it's not like Europe was, 185 00:10:56.539 --> 00:10:59.399 you know, like this feudal society or some or some 186 00:10:59.419 --> 00:11:02.539 kind of Jeffersonian yeoman society like the Confederate States. 187 00:11:02.580 --> 00:11:03.200 They were like, you know what? 188 00:11:03.580 --> 00:11:05.919 We need to beef up a government that can provide 189 00:11:06.039 --> 00:11:09.399 equity to people based on their labor and can look 190 00:11:09.500 --> 00:11:11.980 after old folks. What they were doing was they were 191 00:11:12.019 --> 00:11:15.600 taking something that already existed in places like Prussia and 192 00:11:15.639 --> 00:11:19.490 to a lesser degree in places like France and the 193 00:11:19.529 --> 00:11:23.009 Habsburg Empire and saying, okay, we've got to improve upon 194 00:11:23.049 --> 00:11:26.950 this and make it into a progressive instrumentality to advance history. 195 00:11:28.230 --> 00:11:30.929 That's important to keep in mind too. If you're a 196 00:11:30.990 --> 00:11:34.610 European writing you know, in the, in the, in the 1900s, 197 00:11:34.909 --> 00:11:38.730 like Sorrel, like you were looking backwards at, you know, 198 00:11:38.909 --> 00:11:42.340 your political heritage going back about three centuries, or just 199 00:11:42.360 --> 00:11:45.039 looking at Marx and saying, Oh, I see Marx's idea. 200 00:11:45.100 --> 00:11:47.779 I can improve upon that and make it acceptable to 201 00:11:47.799 -->

00:11:50.500 the right. So that's important to keep in mind. And, um, 202 00:11:51.879 --> 00:11:53.860 you know, kind of the, kind of the first truly 203 00:11:54.019 --> 00:11:59.080 socialist institution is, is the modern military. Like it is okay. 204 00:11:59.120 --> 00:12:01.190 Like it's not, The military is a lot of things. 205 00:12:01.230 --> 00:12:04.549 What it's not is it's not some robustly capitalist thing, okay? 206 00:12:04.610 --> 00:12:08.389 I mean, it's... And the Prussians, arguably, this was their 207 00:12:08.450 --> 00:12:12.929 strength and their weakness. Prussia really is a wasteland. There's, like, 208 00:12:12.970 --> 00:12:15.169 nothing there, okay? I mean, you can, like, farm dirt 209 00:12:15.220 --> 00:12:21.779 and rocks. And you've got port access. But, I mean, 210 00:12:21.820 --> 00:12:25.389 other than that, it's... And you're surrounded by hostiles, okay? And, 211 00:12:25.399 --> 00:12:26.879 I mean, obviously, like, Prussia was. 212 00:12:28.659 --> 00:12:31.320 the Germans weren't the original occupants of Prussia. Okay. 213 00:12:31.340 --> 00:12:33.620 There was, there was, there was, there was a barbarian 214 00:12:33.679 --> 00:12:36.350 element there, like a true like pagan barbarian element of 215 00:12:36.389 --> 00:12:39.750 indigenous Slavs at the ethnically cleansed. Um, not because the 216 00:12:39.769 --> 00:12:42.149 Germans are bad guys. I mean, ethnic cleansing is, it 217 00:12:42.169 --> 00:12:43.789 was just, wasn't, it was just the way of things, 218 00:12:43.850 --> 00:12:46.429 especially in that part of the world. But the kind 219 00:12:46.450 --> 00:12:49.929 of key institution of the Prussian state was the Prussian army. 220 00:12:49.960 --> 00:12:52.279 Um, that's what made it possible. It was literally like 221 00:12:52.299 --> 00:12:53.899 this garrison state. Okay. 222 00:12:54.139 --> 00:12:58.250 Um, And so from that, that's what they extrapolated, kind 223 00:12:58.309 --> 00:13:02.210 of like their model of what society should look like 224 00:13:02.230 --> 00:13:04.470 and how it should be organized. Like, it's very much 225 00:13:04.509 --> 00:13:09.090 at odds with, like, the Anglo-American sensibility. But, yeah, that's 226 00:13:09.110 --> 00:13:11.070 a lot of things. You can say that it's authoritarian. 227 00:13:11.090 --> 00:13:12.950 You can say that it doesn't respect people's freedom or 228 00:13:12.970 --> 00:13:16.220 individual liberty. You can say that in some way it stunts, like, creativity. 229 00:13:16.549 --> 00:13:18.220 And maybe it does. I don't see it that way. 230 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:20.960 But I also don't hold it out as, like, the 231 00:13:20.980 --> 00:13:23.759 zenith of human political development. But one thing it's not 232 00:13:23.840 --> 00:13:28.220 is it all, like, left-wing or liberal. I mean, it's 233 00:13:28.279 --> 00:13:32.549 the opposite in extreme terms. You know, I mean, because, yeah, like, 234 00:13:32.590 --> 00:13:35.889 a military-type structure, if that's your model, like, yeah, there's 235 00:13:35.909 --> 00:13:37.370 some kind of basic.... 236 00:13:38.769 --> 00:13:41.850 There's some kind of basic cohesion and respect for, like, 237 00:13:41.870 --> 00:13:45.700 the various ranks, but it's singularly obsessed with rank. You know, 238 00:13:45.840 --> 00:13:49.009 it's the ultimate hierarchy. It has no conceit that, like, oh, 239 00:13:49.019 --> 00:13:50.860 we're all equals here. You know, it. 240 00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:57.000 In fact, it very much repudiates that. So that's something 241 00:13:57.019 --> 00:13:59.289 important to keep in mind. And that's basically what Sorrell 242 00:13:59.330 --> 00:14:03.610 was getting at. You know, it is like what he 243 00:14:03.629 --> 00:14:09.970 was calling for is, you know, a socialism that, you know, 244 00:14:10.009 --> 00:14:13.899 makes meaningful cultural activity possible. And that reflects, you know, 245 00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:17.679 basic human nature in some way that's not totally at 246 00:14:17.759 --> 00:14:20.289 odds with reality. But again, too, he was like, he 247 00:14:20.309 --> 00:14:22.590 looked at that as a means to an end. Because again, 248 00:14:22.649 --> 00:14:25.110 like his model, he's not saying like, oh, the Kaiserreich 249 00:14:25.149 --> 00:14:28.309 is so great. Or, you know, Frederick II's Prussia is 250 00:14:28.350 --> 00:14:31.100 so great. Like what he was saying was that, you know, 251 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:35.399 things went wrong when things went wrong when men like 252 00:14:35.440 --> 00:14:39.220 Socrates became powerful in ancient Athens. You know, like his 253 00:14:39.299 --> 00:14:45.070 ideal was the pre-Socratic, you know, Peloponnesians. 254 00:14:47.269 --> 00:14:53.610 So, The socialist right, when they're coming to power, are 255 00:14:53.690 --> 00:15:00.429 they– is there a rebellion against establishment liberalism or is 256 00:15:00.450 --> 00:15:04.929 there a rebellion against what is growing communism at the time? 257 00:15:05.470 --> 00:15:06.990 I mean it was both, but it depended on where 258 00:15:07.029 --> 00:15:09.049 you were at. If we're going to use Weimar as 259 00:15:09.090 --> 00:15:11.769 kind of the– I mean obviously like Swell was writing 260 00:15:11.809 --> 00:15:15.490 in the pre-Weimar era. And the situation in France is 261 00:15:15.509 --> 00:15:18.549 more complicated. But if you're talking about the real, like, 262 00:15:19.490 --> 00:15:22.620 if you're talking about the true kind of divide dialectically 263 00:15:22.700 --> 00:15:25.759 and socially as well as politically, and in terms of 264 00:15:25.879 --> 00:15:28.120 armed conflict, obviously, you know, it came down to, like, 265 00:15:28.580 --> 00:15:31.639 actual civil war in. 266 00:15:30.700 --> 00:15:33.990 Places like Munich. There's a couple different things going on 267 00:15:34.830 --> 00:15:35.769 in the Weimar years. 268 00:15:36.330 -->

00:15:41.009 You had organizations like the Stahlhelm, you know, they were basically, 269 00:15:41.110 --> 00:15:43.730 you know, Kaiser Reich veterans who wanted to turn things 270 00:15:43.789 --> 00:15:48.000 back to the way they were. Um, but they, you know, 271 00:15:48.019 --> 00:15:49.759 and they, they, they were fighting the, they were the 272 00:15:49.779 --> 00:15:52.210 guys who constituted the early free court, but then you 273 00:15:52.230 --> 00:15:54.690 had guys, you had guys like Ernest Rahm and Joseph 274 00:15:54.730 --> 00:15:58.669 Goebbels who basically saw the communists as essentially correct in 275 00:15:58.690 --> 00:16:01.269 their methods that they were just, you know, wrong in their, 276 00:16:01.850 --> 00:16:04.610 in their ideological conceits. You know, Goebbels would go as 277 00:16:04.669 --> 00:16:07.919 far as he'd, he'd organize street protests with the KPD, 278 00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:11.940 you know, to bring, to, to, to bring down, um, the, uh, 279 00:16:12.440 --> 00:16:15.220 the unions that were like friendly to the social Democrats. Um, 280 00:16:15.730 --> 00:16:17.870 You know, and this made a lot of people upset. 281 00:16:18.289 --> 00:16:21.490 And Goebbels was the one kind of Strasser faction, National 282 00:16:21.549 --> 00:16:28.299 Socialist dinner party man who survived the night of June 1934. 283 00:16:28.299 --> 00:16:33.500 You know, so that's something to keep in mind. I 284 00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:36.870 think what really, like, I think National Socialism, like, ossified 285 00:16:36.889 --> 00:16:40.830 into what it truly was. When Hindenburg told Hitler that 286 00:16:40.929 --> 00:16:44.509 Ernst Romm and all of his fellows and Strasser had 287 00:16:44.529 --> 00:16:47.389 to die, And then Hitler gave the order, and then 288 00:16:47.450 --> 00:16:51.389 Himmler and Sepp Dietrich and the rest of them not 289 00:16:51.429 --> 00:16:54.049 just carried it out, but they also murdered guys like 290 00:16:54.110 --> 00:16:57.330 Kurt Von Schleicher. I mean, that's kind of like what 291 00:16:57.409 --> 00:17:02.820 turned National Socialism into a pretty conventional right-wing tendency, honestly. 292 00:17:02.840 --> 00:17:09.980 Not right-wing in terms of Donald Trump or not even 293 00:17:10.099 --> 00:17:13.440 right-wing in terms of Robert Taft, but by European standards. 294 00:17:14.930 --> 00:17:17.359 the third right was more conventionally right wing than people 295 00:17:17.380 --> 00:17:21.519 will acknowledge. I mean, they, because there's, there's moronic stuff like, 296 00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:25.059 like Jonah Goldberg saying like, Oh, fascists are a bunch 297 00:17:25.119 --> 00:17:27.569 of like Hillary Clinton liberals or something like, but it, 298 00:17:28.160 --> 00:17:30.240 but there's serious people too, who aren't prone to that 299 00:17:30.269 --> 00:17:34.250 kind of moronic stuff who don't like really understand because they, 300 00:17:34.269 --> 00:17:39.349 you know, they, they read these like dispatches from, uh, um, from, 301 00:17:40.190 --> 00:17:43.690 from Dietrich Eckert and from Ernst Rahn, like saying, yeah, 302 00:17:43.710 --> 00:17:45.369 God is dead, you know, like the hell with the 303 00:17:45.410 --> 00:17:48.210 capitalists and the Jews, like burn everything down. You know, 304 00:17:48.230 --> 00:17:50.509 we're going to, we're going to march on everything and 305 00:17:50.529 --> 00:17:52.490 we're going to kill everybody. And we're going to build 306 00:17:52.509 --> 00:17:55.029 this like new society of the barracks like that. I mean, 307 00:17:55.049 --> 00:17:57.089 don't get me wrong. Those guys were serious about that. 308 00:17:57.109 --> 00:18:00.250 That wasn't, that wasn't just like so much talk. And 309 00:18:00.289 --> 00:18:05.210 a lot of them were frankly psychopaths, but they, they, um, that, that, that, 310 00:18:05.470 --> 00:18:07.059 that came to an end in June, 1934. And if, 311 00:18:09.250 --> 00:18:11.170 if you're, if you're killing people because a man like 312 00:18:11.230 --> 00:18:14.019 Hindenburg is telling you that like, you know, these men are, 313 00:18:14.039 --> 00:18:15.779 these men are red revolutionary rabble. 314 00:18:15.799 --> 00:18:18.059 We have to be stopped. Like you're a lot of things, 315 00:18:18.079 --> 00:18:20.380 but you're not left wing. Okay. When you're executing that order. 316 00:18:20.519 --> 00:18:21.619 So that, I mean, that's my opinion. 317 00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:24.700 I know some people disagree, but I, I've been studying 318 00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:26.049 the topic for a lot of years. 319 00:18:26.210 --> 00:18:27.670 I think I had some insight into it. 320 00:18:28.750 --> 00:18:31.809 Let's talk a little bit about what you, you said 321 00:18:31.849 --> 00:18:36.170 about Europe and how Europe defined things differently than here. Um, 322 00:18:37.109 --> 00:18:41.609 when socialism or communism is mentioned here, it almost seems 323 00:18:41.670 --> 00:18:45.920 like we just have this, we know exactly what's being said, 324 00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:51.180 but from a European standpoint, especially at that time when 325 00:18:51.299 --> 00:18:56.140 socialism was spoken of or communism was spoken of, how 326 00:18:56.180 --> 00:19:01.509 did the European culture make it a different interpretation? Even 327 00:19:01.529 --> 00:19:04.650 when you read Yaki, you know, Yaki, when he's talking about, um, 328 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:11.049 when he's talking about Europe, it's a different language than 329 00:19:11.750 --> 00:19:15.289 the language that we're used to reading in the books that, 330 00:19:15.509 --> 00:19:17.309 you know, were basically written by the victors. 331 00:19:18.089 --> 00:19:19.569 Yeah, no, definitely. 332 00:19:19.589 --> 00:19:21.950 Well, it's also too, it goes back to, it goes 333 00:19:21.990 --> 00:19:26.400 back to sociological origins. You know, I mean, America and some, 334 00:19:27.160

--> 00:19:29.480 depending on where you fall on it, I think we, 335 00:19:29.519 --> 00:19:31.920 but also just depending on what kind of weight you 336 00:19:31.940 --> 00:19:34.960 put on the different variables, you know, America is something 337 00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:38.660 of an incomplete society. I mean, that's either good or bad, but, 338 00:19:38.680 --> 00:19:43.309 you know, everything that Europe was trying to do in 339 00:19:43.329 --> 00:19:48.079 the modern era, okay, it's zenith in the 20th century, 340 00:19:49.859 --> 00:19:52.279 we were trying to repair the social fabric in some 341 00:19:52.420 --> 00:19:55.519 ethical way that had been smashed after. 342 00:19:56.059 --> 00:19:56.779 The Middle Ages. 343 00:19:57.319 --> 00:19:59.660 Okay, in the Middle Ages, there was this basic interdependence 344 00:19:59.700 --> 00:20:03.859 between everybody. You know, the lords were dependent upon the serfs, 345 00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:07.559 both were dependent upon the king, and the intermediary between 346 00:20:08.309 --> 00:20:11.009 the two of them was the clergy, you know, these 347 00:20:11.029 --> 00:20:14.799 people couldn't survive without each other. Like that cannot be overstated. 348 00:20:14.819 --> 00:20:16.599 You know, this idea that if you were like a 349 00:20:16.670 --> 00:20:18.819 Lord of the Manor, you know, you could just act 350 00:20:18.859 --> 00:20:22.859 like the, the character in that silly Mad Max movie, 351 00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:26.240 who's like, you know, forcing people to worship him from 352 00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:28.599 water or something. Like, that's not, that's not the way 353 00:20:28.640 --> 00:20:30.579 things work. Like, I'm not saying if you were a 354 00:20:30.579 --> 00:20:32.500 medieval serf, I'm not saying you had some great life, 355 00:20:32.519 --> 00:20:34.460 but I'm not saying you had some, I'm not saying 356 00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:37.500 you had adequate remedies. If, if you had a cruel master, uh, 357 00:20:38.059 --> 00:20:41.240 but he needed you. He could not defend the land 358 00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:43.599 without you. He could not kill the land without you. 359 00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:46.819 He had nothing if you were not willing to work. 360 00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:52.140 But in contrast, you had no access to justice and 361 00:20:52.509 --> 00:20:57.210 you had nobody to advocate for you with royal authority 362 00:20:57.529 --> 00:20:59.170 if he did not exist. I mean, you had the 363 00:20:59.230 --> 00:21:02.569 church too, but the church weren't men who worked. They 364 00:21:02.589 --> 00:21:05.569 did very important things, but they operate in a totally 365 00:21:05.589 --> 00:21:08.039 different world. I mean, so it's You didn't have a 366 00:21:08.079 --> 00:21:10.440 direct line to authority unless, you know, you had a 367 00:21:10.460 --> 00:21:14.140 rapport with the lord of the manor. So that's fundamentally important. 368 00:21:14.200 --> 00:21:18.069 What changed in the modern age and reached kind of 369 00:21:18.109 --> 00:21:23.309 its critical in every sense, you know, like in existential 370 00:21:23.349 --> 00:21:28.509 terms and conceptual terms, reached its kind of critical state 371 00:21:28.630 --> 00:21:31.440 in the 20th century is You know, people were ripped 372 00:21:31.500 --> 00:21:34.059 off the land. They were thrown into factories that literally 373 00:21:34.099 --> 00:21:36.940 employed tens of thousands of people in these dangerous conditions 374 00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:39.740 where you were insinuated into some machine, you know, for 375 00:21:39.799 --> 00:21:41.880 hours and hours a day. I mean, if you died 376 00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:44.809 on the job, nobody really cared. Or if they did, 377 00:21:45.130 --> 00:21:47.309 it's like, well, it's so much, it's a mark in 378 00:21:47.349 --> 00:21:50.150 a ledger book. You know, like you don't have any rights. 379 00:21:50.309 --> 00:21:52.069 And it's not even, even if somebody wanted to confer 380 00:21:52.130 --> 00:21:54.829 upon you some kind of voice or wanted to, you know, 381 00:21:54.849 --> 00:21:57.519 kind of make you a lot better person, just like 382 00:21:57.559 --> 00:22:01.559 the velocity of production and the trajectory of things, like 383 00:22:01.579 --> 00:22:04.589 there was, you didn't, you didn't matter. You know, you were, 384 00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:08.289 you became totally dehumanized, you know, and that's what the 385 00:22:08.349 --> 00:22:10.890 socialists were trying to do. And they're like, we, on 386 00:22:10.910 --> 00:22:13.349 the right and the left, they're like, you know, we, 387 00:22:13.390 --> 00:22:15.450 we've got to like repair this kind of social fabric 388 00:22:15.470 --> 00:22:19.170 and this interdependence and this basic, basic ethical unity of 389 00:22:19.269 --> 00:22:22.269 classes and functions, you know, so that people aren't being 390 00:22:22.349 --> 00:22:25.029 treated like a commodity. And so that, like, when they 391 00:22:25.049 --> 00:22:27.269 die in the job, you know, they're just not, like, 392 00:22:27.349 --> 00:22:29.509 shoveled away, like, so much garbage, like, literally. 393 00:22:29.650 --> 00:22:32.130 You know, I mean, that's the way to keep in mind. 394 00:22:32.150 --> 00:22:33.109 That's the thing to keep in mind. 395 00:22:33.430 --> 00:22:38.339 Like, in America, there wasn't some medieval order from which 396 00:22:38.380 --> 00:22:41.180 things originated. Like, even in the South, like, people, I 397 00:22:41.180 --> 00:22:44.220 know the Southerners themselves kind of looked at themselves as 398 00:22:45.079 --> 00:22:49.920 kind of like lords and knights, which wasn't totally inaccurate. 399 00:22:49.940 --> 00:22:50.039 Right. 400 00:22:50.369 --> 00:22:51.750 But it was more like, but again, it was more 401 00:22:51.789 --> 00:22:55.690 like Athens than it was like, than it was like, 402 00:22:55.730 --> 00:22:58.980 you know, 13th century

England. You know, like you had, 403 00:22:59.299 --> 00:23:02.059 like the South was basically made up of like kulak types. 404 00:23:02.599 --> 00:23:05.220 You know, there were white serfs and there were black slaves, 405 00:23:05.279 --> 00:23:07.980 but they weren't the majority. The majority was not like 406 00:23:08.059 --> 00:23:11.089 rich plantation owners and like poor serfs and like, and 407 00:23:11.150 --> 00:23:14.269 slaves who were property. Like the majority was like small 408 00:23:14.329 --> 00:23:17.650 freehold farmers who were doing their own thing. And that's, 409 00:23:17.809 --> 00:23:21.049 that's supposedly the American ideal. OK, like now it's like 410 00:23:21.069 --> 00:23:23.190 a small businessman. I'm not saying that's actually the way 411 00:23:23.210 --> 00:23:26.589 things are, but that's like what's idealized. But, you know, 412 00:23:27.390 --> 00:23:32.019 in America, if you're on the right, your idea isn't like, well, 413 00:23:32.059 --> 00:23:33.920 you know, we got to we got to bring things 414 00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:36.019 back to, you know, the throne and altar and like 415 00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:39.039 reverence for God and God's emissaries on Earth. And, you know, 416 00:23:39.059 --> 00:23:41.160 we got to create some kind of codependence between the 417 00:23:41.220 --> 00:23:45.400 classes that's not dysfunctional. Like, the ideal is, like, you know, 418 00:23:45.539 --> 00:23:48.680 I need to be given the opportunity to, like, till 419 00:23:48.700 --> 00:23:51.349 the land and get what's mine and, you know, have 420 00:23:51.369 --> 00:23:53.369 the government stay off my bed and not take the 421 00:23:53.420 --> 00:23:56.730 fruits of my labor. I mean, they're totally different sensibilities. Like, 422 00:23:56.829 --> 00:23:59.349 one's not superior to the other. I mean, obviously, I'm 423 00:23:59.369 --> 00:24:02.190 more sympathetic to the American model because that's my heritage. 424 00:24:02.210 --> 00:24:04.930 And I, you know, and then plus that's just, like, 425 00:24:04.950 --> 00:24:05.769 what's realistic. 426 00:24:05.789 --> 00:24:06.329 Like, you can't. 427 00:24:06.349 --> 00:24:08.970 One of the reasons it's goofy when, I mean, I 428 00:24:08.970 --> 00:24:10.630 realize some of this is polemical, but some of these 429 00:24:10.670 --> 00:24:14.400 idiots actually believe this. Like, when, like, when, like, regime-loyal 430 00:24:14.420 --> 00:24:17.480 people or when these, like, Mother Jones types claim that, like, 431 00:24:17.799 --> 00:24:20.259 Donald Trump's this big fascist or something, I mean. 432 00:24:20.299 --> 00:24:21.859 That's, like, retarded for no other reason. 433 00:24:21.960 --> 00:24:25.240 But, like, some radical right-wing guy, like, if George Wallace 434 00:24:25.259 --> 00:24:27.119 had become president or Hugh E. Long had become president, 435 00:24:27.480 --> 00:24:31.240 it would not look anything like Germany in 1933 or, like, 436 00:24:31.380 --> 00:24:34.319 Italy in 1922. Like, that's ridiculous. That's not the way 437 00:24:34.339 --> 00:24:37.099 we do things here. Like, that's, like, that's, like, saying 438 00:24:37.559 --> 00:24:40.299 that's as retarded as saying, like, oh, if Donald Trump 439 00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:40.700 hit his. 440 00:24:40.619 --> 00:24:45.920 Way, he would be like the Holy Roman Emperor. It 441 00:24:45.940 --> 00:24:47.220 doesn't make any sense. 442 00:24:47.859 --> 00:24:51.380 But I made the point before that the entire civic 443 00:24:51.420 --> 00:24:56.160 religion of America is anti-fascism, which is particularly kind of 444 00:24:56.259 --> 00:24:57.380 asinine in this country. 445 00:24:57.660 --> 00:24:58.440 But yeah. 446 00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:03.940 Well, that set me up perfectly. So we know because 447 00:25:04.900 --> 00:25:10.539 Gentile wrote what fascism was in Italy. But as far 448 00:25:10.619 --> 00:25:16.240 as I know, really, nobody in Germany at the time 449 00:25:16.319 --> 00:25:21.480 was writing what socialism meant to them. You can listen 450 00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:24.369 to the Strasser debates and everything, and you can get 451 00:25:24.420 --> 00:25:30.369 an idea. But in your opinion, the national socialism of Germany, 452 00:25:30.529 --> 00:25:33.109 what did that socialism actually mean? 453 00:25:33.130 --> 00:25:36.049 I mean, they were drawing upon a couple of things. 454 00:25:36.150 --> 00:25:38.069 And if you read, there's not a lot you can extrapolate. 455 00:25:38.630 --> 00:25:42.269 I love telling people to read Hitler's second book because 456 00:25:42.710 --> 00:25:46.390 it's instructive. It fleshes out his geostrategic ideas and some 457 00:25:46.430 --> 00:25:48.250 other things, and it's just interesting reading. 458 00:25:48.910 --> 00:25:53.230 It was never published. The manuscript was found by the U.S. Army, 459 00:25:53.289 --> 00:25:53.710 and then it was. 460 00:25:53.670 --> 00:25:58.839 Handed over to Army Intelligence. The chain of custody was weird, 461 00:25:59.190 --> 00:26:03.779 but it has been authenticated. It was Hitler's actual manuscript, 462 00:26:03.799 --> 00:26:07.500 but it wasn't published and available in public until after 463 00:26:07.519 --> 00:26:10.119 the war, but you know, people, there's not like, there's 464 00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:12.099 not a lot you can extrapolate from Mein Kampf. That's 465 00:26:12.119 --> 00:26:13.539 why it's idiotic when people are like, oh, it's a 466 00:26:13.559 --> 00:26:16.140 boring book. It's like, well, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's 467 00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:19.460 an election year screed from the 1920s. Like why, why 468 00:26:19.480 --> 00:26:24.799 would it be interesting today? But what is interesting, um, 469 00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:28.559 like when he talks about, um, when he, when, when 470 00:26:28.579 --> 00:26:32.380 Hiller talks about his, his ideas on, on conflict between 471 00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:38.039 human

populations, like that's, that's instructive. And also, um, You know, 472 00:26:38.059 --> 00:26:40.579 I made a point of people before Hitler. He was 473 00:26:40.599 --> 00:26:46.880 this Catholic Habsburg Austrian who basically identified his movement as 474 00:26:46.900 --> 00:26:50.869 the legacy of the Prussian state. And, you know, the 475 00:26:50.910 --> 00:26:54.609 December 11th speech, the Reichstag, which is really Hitler's last 476 00:26:54.670 --> 00:26:57.029 public address of the Reichstag. You know, that's like when 477 00:26:57.049 --> 00:27:02.339 he issued the declaration of war against America. He talks 478 00:27:02.410 --> 00:27:05.880 about a. he talks about we, like the royal we, 479 00:27:06.140 --> 00:27:09.700 like in reference to the Prussians and the Napoleonic Wars. Okay, 480 00:27:09.720 --> 00:27:12.240 so I mean, he's saying like, and then that's notable 481 00:27:12.299 --> 00:27:14.200 because like, you know, Prussia was at odds with the 482 00:27:14.240 --> 00:27:16.200 rest of the German kingdoms. I mean, that's a little 483 00:27:16.220 --> 00:27:20.269 bit off topic, but be as it may, like Adolf 484 00:27:20.289 --> 00:27:23.130 Hitler himself, if Adolf Hitler is like the standard bearer 485 00:27:23.150 --> 00:27:26.069 of like right-wing socialism in Weimar, which I mean, I 486 00:27:26.109 --> 00:27:27.970 think we can say that he was because he's the 487 00:27:27.990 --> 00:27:30.009 man who became king proverbially. 488 00:27:31.829 --> 00:27:32.990 His view was what I just said. 489 00:27:33.049 --> 00:27:38.210 It was that You know, the proper German model of 490 00:27:38.430 --> 00:27:43.279 national life is Prussia. And the Prussian model was based 491 00:27:43.339 --> 00:27:48.460 on the army and, you know, the civic apparatus that 492 00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:53.230 revolved around that. So, I mean, that's the way you 493 00:27:53.250 --> 00:27:56.049 can think of German socialism. Of course, to your point, 494 00:27:56.069 --> 00:28:00.769 guys like Strasser, guys like Rahm, Kurt Von Schleicher, I think, 495 00:28:00.970 --> 00:28:03.799 was a lesser aristocrat who was basically cynical and he 496 00:28:03.819 --> 00:28:06.380 didn't really care, but he was obviously threw in his 497 00:28:06.440 --> 00:28:09.480 lot with, with Strasser and Rahm because he wanted to 498 00:28:09.519 --> 00:28:12.539 destroy Hitler. But all these guys, at least what they 499 00:28:12.559 --> 00:28:15.490 were advocating in public was they were saying like, you know, 500 00:28:15.509 --> 00:28:19.450 Hitler's a tool of the bourgeoisie. Um, he's not really 501 00:28:19.470 --> 00:28:22.509 a revolutionary. He's just a reactionary and he's a petty 502 00:28:22.569 --> 00:28:27.609 bourgeois buffoon. Um, So, I mean, the no true Scotsman 503 00:28:27.950 --> 00:28:31.289 stuff about socialism, a lot of that was interseeing rivalry 504 00:28:31.349 --> 00:28:36.299 between national socialists. It's not like the German street was, uh, where, 505 00:28:36.359 --> 00:28:39.859 where like 1970s era, like, you know, Berkeley types, you know, 506 00:28:39.880 --> 00:28:42.359 talking about like, who's a real socialist. It was a 507 00:28:42.359 --> 00:28:44.940 lot more, it was a lot less existential and like 508 00:28:44.960 --> 00:28:47.779 a lot more like polemical and kind of cynical than that. 509 00:28:47.799 --> 00:28:51.450 I mean, that's my view. Um, and I think I'm. 510 00:28:51.410 --> 00:28:54.109 Something, if not an expert, I think I have some, 511 00:28:54.599 --> 00:28:56.920 I think I have some expertise on the topic at least. 512 00:28:58.400 --> 00:29:00.180 I want to get back to Sorrel, but I wanted 513 00:29:00.200 --> 00:29:04.660 to mention this. Um, so you mentioned that Prussia was 514 00:29:04.700 --> 00:29:07.769 based off of the military. Um, a lot of people, 515 00:29:07.789 --> 00:29:12.049 a lot of Americans point out that, you know, Prussian 516 00:29:12.109 --> 00:29:15.809 schooling is, you know, um, what's his name? I can't 517 00:29:15.849 --> 00:29:20.650 remember his name now. Um, he went to Prussia, saw, um, 518 00:29:21.579 --> 00:29:25.900 saw how the schooling was done and basically brought it back. 519 00:29:26.759 --> 00:29:29.599 But what a lot of people will say is that 520 00:29:30.500 --> 00:29:33.890 all that schooling is meant to do is turn people 521 00:29:34.029 --> 00:29:37.750 into a cog in the machine to be plugged in. 522 00:29:38.430 --> 00:29:41.970 So if that is true, it seems like that is 523 00:29:42.130 --> 00:29:48.690 creating a group of people in that if the students 524 00:29:48.750 --> 00:29:52.170 are all learning the same thing, then that could be 525 00:29:52.259 --> 00:29:54.059 seen as egalitarian. 526 00:29:55.900 --> 00:29:59.079 Yeah, well, the difference too, of course, is Yeah, it's 527 00:29:59.119 --> 00:30:02.099 not just that, you know, the Prussian model identifies that, 528 00:30:02.259 --> 00:30:05.259 you know, the vast difference in human intellect and abilities 529 00:30:05.319 --> 00:30:07.960 and kind of organizes people in a proverbial slots or 530 00:30:08.039 --> 00:30:10.960 organize them based on, you know, how those things can 531 00:30:10.980 --> 00:30:13.859 be cultivated and utilized. But also like the core of 532 00:30:13.880 --> 00:30:18.420 the Prussian ethos is, you know, the racial community. So 533 00:30:18.440 --> 00:30:20.759 if you take that Prussian model, but you utilize it 534 00:30:20.819 --> 00:30:24.039 as kind of a way of derashing people and saying, okay, 535 00:30:24.059 --> 00:30:26.160 you're not like a Mexican, you're not like a white man, 536 00:30:26.200 --> 00:30:31.740 you're not, you're not black. You're not Asian. You're just American. 537 00:30:31.779 --> 00:30:34.269 You just have this civic identity where you're not going 538 00:30:34.289 --> 00:30:36.529 to speak your own language anymore. You're not going to 539 00:30:36.549 -->

00:30:41.329 go to your own church anymore. You're not going to 540 00:30:41.490 --> 00:30:47.690 abide these habits anymore of your forebears. That's what's really 541 00:30:47.730 --> 00:30:52.069 insidious about the New Dealer American model. It's not so 542 00:30:52.109 --> 00:30:53.890 much that it declares that every man is going to 543 00:30:53.930 --> 00:30:56.069 have some kind of income in common. or that it's 544 00:30:56.089 --> 00:31:00.380 going to reduce the proverbial disparity between the ownership caste 545 00:31:00.519 --> 00:31:03.839 and what was then the working caste. What was insidious 546 00:31:03.900 --> 00:31:07.119 about it is that it was tailored to essentially strip 547 00:31:07.160 --> 00:31:10.900 people of any ability to live historically and any meaningful 548 00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:14.599 actual cultural identity. It was going to alienate man from 549 00:31:14.619 --> 00:31:18.480 his heritage and from history in absolute terms. That's the 550 00:31:18.519 --> 00:31:23.240 big difference. And that's also why I object a lot. 551 00:31:23.460 --> 00:31:26.319 There's something to it when people talk about, quote, cultural Marxism. 552 00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:30.859 They're talking about Gramsci and Adorno, like, contra Marx and Engels. 553 00:31:31.640 --> 00:31:34.619 But they don't understand that, like, a lot of this 554 00:31:34.660 --> 00:31:38.420 doesn't have to do with orthodox Marxism or Frankfurt School 555 00:31:38.440 --> 00:31:39.039 stuff at all. 556 00:31:39.420 --> 00:31:41.160 A lot of it's, like, New Dealer bullshit. 557 00:31:41.559 --> 00:31:44.420 You know, like, race blind, like, God is dead. You know, 558 00:31:44.910 --> 00:31:48.289 we know now that, like, everything is reducible to, you know, 559 00:31:48.950 --> 00:31:52.420 data derived from the scientific method. you know, the man's 560 00:31:52.480 --> 00:31:54.640 basically just like an animal who can talk and, you know, 561 00:31:54.660 --> 00:31:56.799 there's no more history and there's no more culture. All 562 00:31:56.819 --> 00:31:59.380 that matters is making man more suitable to governance and 563 00:31:59.900 --> 00:32:03.500 eliminating these, you know, these problems like, you know, like, like, 564 00:32:03.519 --> 00:32:05.700 like conflict between the races or like men and women 565 00:32:05.740 --> 00:32:07.960 not getting along. Like that's like that. 566 00:32:07.829 --> 00:32:11.529 Kind of, or, or, or family. I mean, just read 567 00:32:11.569 --> 00:32:12.950 the authoritarian personality. 568 00:32:13.410 --> 00:32:14.670 Yeah, exactly. Exactly. 569 00:32:14.690 --> 00:32:17.089 So I mean, there's like a pastiche, like definitely like 570 00:32:17.130 --> 00:32:22.799 Frankfurt school stuff, And that kind of thing became preeminent, like, especially, like, 571 00:32:22.960 --> 00:32:25.380 as the American left broke entirely. 572 00:32:25.559 --> 00:32:26.839 Not just the American left, but Europe. 573 00:32:26.859

--> 00:32:30.400 Like, when the left, just in macro terms, like, broke with, like, 574 00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:33.559 Stalinism and decided, like, the East Bloc were their enemy. 575 00:32:33.579 --> 00:32:35.980 I mean, this was long in coming, but they were 576 00:32:36.019 --> 00:32:39.839 looking around for some kind of ideological cannon, and they 577 00:32:39.880 --> 00:32:42.339 settled down, like, the Frankfurt School. But this is also 578 00:32:42.380 --> 00:32:46.240 what would have been turned loose on divided Germany. 579 00:32:46.759 --> 00:32:47.500 You know, I mean, so. 580 00:32:48.200 --> 00:32:50.480 there was a lot of things. And yeah, this definitely 581 00:32:50.500 --> 00:32:53.380 became part of like the American conceptual horizon, like in 582 00:32:53.420 --> 00:32:56.700 policy terms, as well as academic intellectual terms. But there 583 00:32:56.720 --> 00:32:58.349 was a lot of stuff that also like preceded that, 584 00:32:58.369 --> 00:33:01.329 you know, like these fools, like who were, uh, who 585 00:33:01.349 --> 00:33:03.210 built like that part of education and all that kind 586 00:33:03.250 --> 00:33:06.849 of stuff. And, and these, and these, uh, and even, even, 587 00:33:06.910 --> 00:33:08.549 even a lot of guys who preceded new dealers, like 588 00:33:08.569 --> 00:33:12.190 Colonel house, uh, who was, uh, you know, will kind 589 00:33:12.250 --> 00:33:15.849 of the Wilson's, uh, kind of Machiavelli, you know, administer 590 00:33:15.869 --> 00:33:19.440 without portfolio, uh, Like, even he was, like, prone to 591 00:33:19.460 --> 00:33:21.619 a lot of that kind of nonsense. Like, House wrote 592 00:33:21.740 --> 00:33:24.920 this really bad science fiction novel where there was, like, 593 00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:27.460 this benevolent dictator who was obviously supposed to be himself. 594 00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:31.029 And he basically, like, you know, finds a way to, like, 595 00:33:31.109 --> 00:33:33.549 strip man of any, like, historical identity. 596 00:33:34.009 --> 00:33:36.970 And he, like, forces everybody to speak this, like, Esperanto language. 597 00:33:37.269 --> 00:33:39.329 So now there's, like, no more war. And this great 598 00:33:39.369 --> 00:33:42.069 man becomes, like, God on Earth because there's no more war. 599 00:33:42.450 --> 00:33:44.990 And it's, like, why would that be remotely desirable? It 600 00:33:45.009 --> 00:33:45.809 sounds like a nightmare. Yeah. 601 00:33:46.180 --> 00:33:48.420 But like idiots like Colonel House, like there's some like 602 00:33:48.500 --> 00:33:52.940 great utopia that like, you know, that acquits government of 603 00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:55.980 any criticism because, you know, the greatest thing ever is 604 00:33:56.420 --> 00:33:59.329 somehow like if black kids have high test scores and 605 00:33:59.660 --> 00:34:02.210 like everybody lives in a big prison where war is impossible. 606 00:34:02.650 --> 00:34:04.329 Like no one can explain like why these things are 607 00:34:04.349 --> 00:34:06.390 so awesome, but like that's their conceit. 608 00:34:07.230 --> 00:34:11.250 Let me just try to nail down exactly what you 609 00:34:11.289 --> 00:34:14.230 meant when I, when I mentioned the Prussian schooling. So 610 00:34:14.670 --> 00:34:19.639 in Prussia, If your goal is to educate everyone and 611 00:34:19.710 --> 00:34:24.929 bring them down into a cohesive culture that works within 612 00:34:24.969 --> 00:34:31.829 itself and that's what the Prussian education system meant to do. 613 00:34:32.380 --> 00:34:35.679 But if you transfer that over into the United States, 614 00:34:35.880 --> 00:34:43.139 now you're stripping a multicultural society and you're saying everyone 615 00:34:43.179 --> 00:34:46.360 has to be one. And obviously, some are going to 616 00:34:46.420 --> 00:34:49.920 rebel against that. And the ones who don't rebel against 617 00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:55.840 it are going to basically lose what kind of social 618 00:34:55.900 --> 00:34:58.139 cohesion they have within their own community. 619 00:34:58.969 --> 00:34:59.650 No, exactly. 620 00:34:59.690 --> 00:35:02.070 And that's why one of the things that brought the 621 00:35:02.090 --> 00:35:05.170 United States and the Soviet Union together, I'm talking, you know, 622 00:35:05.190 --> 00:35:09.559 like the New Deal Stalinist alliance thing. Like, on its 623 00:35:09.639 --> 00:35:12.320 face in geostrategic terms, it doesn't make a lot of sense. Like, 624 00:35:12.460 --> 00:35:17.119 what Lindbergh said and what Houston Stewart Chamberlain said, I mean, yeah, 625 00:35:17.139 --> 00:35:20.440 those guys obviously had political and aesthetic preferences for Germany. 626 00:35:21.400 --> 00:35:25.110 But in raw geostrategic terms, it doesn't really make sense 627 00:35:25.780 --> 00:35:27.789 for America and the U.K. to decide they're going to 628 00:35:27.849 --> 00:35:32.369 annihilate Germany in alliance with Russia. Like, what makes sense 629 00:35:32.409 --> 00:35:34.969 is for, you know, Europe led by Germany, the U.K. 630 00:35:35.010 --> 00:35:37.730 and the United States, you know, to cause you this 631 00:35:37.750 --> 00:35:41.739 kind of ramparts. against the East, whether it's China, whether 632 00:35:41.780 --> 00:35:49.449 it's Russia, whatever it is. There's a basic illogic to 633 00:35:49.489 --> 00:35:53.250 what developed. And one of the reasons why that happened 634 00:35:53.789 --> 00:35:57.250 was ideological necessity. And the United States and the Soviet 635 00:35:57.429 --> 00:36:04.059 Union went about irrationality of their objectives domestically. uh they 636 00:36:04.219 --> 00:36:06.840 were they had similar problems you know snellen's big problem 637 00:36:06.860 --> 00:36:09.260 was the nationalities problem you know like how do i 638 00:36:09.280 --> 00:36:11.619 strip everybody of their ethnic identity and make them into 639 00:36:11.659 --> 00:36:15.360 new soviet men and the new dealers

were like they 640 00:36:15.380 --> 00:36:17.159 had the same problem you know like how do you 641 00:36:17.179 --> 00:36:20.840 like destroy like the nationalities in america you know and 642 00:36:21.119 --> 00:36:23.900 and i mean that this still goes on today like 643 00:36:23.920 --> 00:36:26.840 that's why in typical fashion when the regime talks about 644 00:36:26.900 --> 00:36:29.460 multiculturalism they're talking about the opposite they're talking about like 645 00:36:29.480 --> 00:36:34.750 the eradication of all cultures you know um There's not 646 00:36:34.769 --> 00:36:38.409 a hell of a lot of states organized like the 647 00:36:38.449 --> 00:36:41.230 United States or like the Soviet Union was. It's not 648 00:36:41.250 --> 00:36:43.780 a natural political mode of organization. 649 00:36:43.800 --> 00:36:48.139 You can do one of two things there. 650 00:36:48.159 --> 00:36:54.800 You can either rule by way of evolved federalism and 651 00:36:55.380 --> 00:36:59.360 basically leave people alone to manage their own affairs within 652 00:36:59.400 --> 00:37:04.050 their own cultural spaces. or uh but i mean government 653 00:37:04.090 --> 00:37:06.139 never is willing to do that i mean at least 654 00:37:06.179 --> 00:37:09.460 here um so they're they're always going to opt for 655 00:37:10.119 --> 00:37:13.860 this idea of of this you know eradicating culture and 656 00:37:14.079 --> 00:37:17.579 ripping people out of um out of a historical existence 657 00:37:18.360 --> 00:37:20.019 and um both there i mean that's one of the 658 00:37:20.059 --> 00:37:21.960 things that brought down the soviet union and that's all 659 00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:24.380 that's also one of the reasons why post-world war like 660 00:37:24.420 --> 00:37:28.099 a america does not have moral legitimacy but that was 661 00:37:28.119 --> 00:37:31.929 definitely what they wanted to do and the um But 662 00:37:31.949 --> 00:37:34.070 this is going to sound like a goofy example, but 663 00:37:34.090 --> 00:37:35.989 I'm using it because it pops up again and again 664 00:37:36.030 --> 00:37:38.469 in the 60s. I read a lot of science fiction 665 00:37:38.510 --> 00:37:40.889 from the era, and science fiction from that era wasn't 666 00:37:40.909 --> 00:37:43.369 just entertainment. There was a lot of think tank guys. 667 00:37:43.769 --> 00:37:46.179 I mean, even until the 80s. You know, Jerry Pornel, 668 00:37:46.219 --> 00:37:48.699 who was, you know, kind of the driver of my SDI, like, 669 00:37:48.739 --> 00:37:51.840 he wrote science fiction. And he was, you know, incident 670 00:37:51.880 --> 00:37:54.599 to his, like, think tank and policy work and stuff. But, 671 00:37:54.619 --> 00:37:57.840 you know, there was that corny old Star Trek episode where, like, 672 00:37:58.500 --> 00:38:01.000 captain kirk and and spock they go down to this 673 00:38:01.059 --> 00:38:03.019 planet and it's like the third reich and they don't 674 00:38:03.039 --> 00:38:04.719 know how this is possible like you know what i'm 675 00:38:04.739 --> 00:38:07.900 talking about yeah and then they and then ultimately it's 676 00:38:07.940 --> 00:38:10.980 unraveled like oh well this guy in like the 22nd 677 00:38:11.039 --> 00:38:13.739 century he crashed like from earth he crash lands on 678 00:38:13.780 --> 00:38:16.769 this planet there's primitive humanoids but they're always at war 679 00:38:16.789 --> 00:38:19.210 and he's like okay well i i know i know 680 00:38:19.230 --> 00:38:21.130 how to resolve this so he creates this like third 681 00:38:21.210 --> 00:38:23.949 reich style regime and then kirk like addresses the audience 682 00:38:24.030 --> 00:38:26.019 like You know, this was the most efficient government of 683 00:38:26.079 --> 00:38:29.250 all time, but, you know, they were brutal races. So, 684 00:38:29.690 --> 00:38:31.530 you know, that's why it didn't work. But the idea 685 00:38:31.590 --> 00:38:35.329 was in some way noble. And that's interesting. And that 686 00:38:35.349 --> 00:38:37.389 comes up again and again, not just in, like, corny 687 00:38:37.409 --> 00:38:40.920 science fiction, but in, like, policy papers. Like, we admire 688 00:38:40.940 --> 00:38:43.440 the Prussian state because the Germans are a great people, 689 00:38:43.519 --> 00:38:46.079 but they're these brutal races. So that's why it didn't work. 690 00:38:46.179 --> 00:38:48.699 But we've got to extrapolate that here in some way, 691 00:38:49.059 --> 00:38:52.940 but strip it up of these chauvinistic and, like, racialized. 692 00:38:52.380 --> 00:38:53.119 Views and things. 693 00:38:54.400 --> 00:38:57.599 People don't think that way directly anymore. It's been finessed 694 00:38:57.619 --> 00:39:00.500 in different ways, but that's what underlies it. Especially in 695 00:39:00.539 --> 00:39:03.760 a place like Chicago, but nationwide, the degree to which 696 00:39:03.780 --> 00:39:07.030 these institutions, people like for granted, are things taken from 697 00:39:07.050 --> 00:39:08.610 the Prussian state is crazy. 698 00:39:09.530 --> 00:39:12.429 It really is. That's not. 699 00:39:14.690 --> 00:39:20.380 Just me being a Teutonophile or something. I'm sure in 700 00:39:20.420 --> 00:39:23.170 part on that too, but It just, can't be denied. 701 00:39:23.449 --> 00:39:25.780 I'm not even saying it's a good or bad thing. 702 00:39:25.820 --> 00:39:31.699 It's just reality. At one time, people were way more 703 00:39:31.739 --> 00:39:34.099 directly cognizant of that or at least willing to acknowledge it. 704 00:39:34.420 --> 00:39:38.110 That's important to consider. I wanted to get back to 705 00:39:38.130 --> 00:39:38.469 the book. 706 00:39:38.750 --> 00:39:44.750 This is from Imperium Press, Reflections on Anonymous by Sorrel. 707 00:39:44.929 --> 00:39:48.510 From the forward, I'm going to read your words and 708 00:39:48.699 --> 00:39:54.429 have you comments on this. It says, rather has already 709 00:39:54.469 -->

00:40:00.010 been alluded to, Sorelian violence can best be understood as 710 00:40:00.070 --> 00:40:10.219 an absolute, uncompromising, and radical commitment to pure history and bloodletting. Parentheses, 711 00:40:10.739 --> 00:40:13.400 one's own in the case of the martyr and the 712 00:40:13.559 --> 00:40:17.960 enemy's in the case of the partisan. And bloodletting is 713 00:40:18.079 --> 00:40:22.159 the sanctifying... process. And you go on to say, a 714 00:40:22.820 --> 00:40:26.179 partisan unwilling to die or commit homicide is no more 715 00:40:26.260 --> 00:40:30.320 a political soldier or agent of history than would be 716 00:40:30.440 --> 00:40:33.780 a lawgiver who is incapable, for reasons of moral or 717 00:40:33.840 --> 00:40:38.269 physical frailty, of executing a death warrant issued by order 718 00:40:38.329 --> 00:40:42.489 of the king's bench as an agent of exclusive sovereign authority. 719 00:40:44.719 --> 00:40:49.650 Sorel viewed the modern bourgeoisie as particularly decadent and harmful, 720 00:40:50.070 --> 00:40:52.530 but he did not think the conditions of his epoch 721 00:40:52.590 --> 00:40:58.320 to be otherwise unique. All ruling regimes, political and social, 722 00:40:58.719 --> 00:41:02.480 develop over time a kind of moral and intellectual apathy 723 00:41:02.539 --> 00:41:06.280 that precludes its worthiness or at least revokes its mandate 724 00:41:06.639 --> 00:41:10.480 to act in a role of guardianship or standard-bearer over 725 00:41:10.530 --> 00:41:14.090 the subject matter of its dominion. This is not to 726 00:41:14.130 --> 00:41:19.409 suggest that Sorrell shared a secularized eschatological vision of utopian 727 00:41:19.449 --> 00:41:24.210 salvation common to Marxists and progressives, which posited that the 728 00:41:24.250 --> 00:41:28.500 condition of man or the state or national community was 729 00:41:28.619 --> 00:41:34.139 capable of perfection by way of revolutionary processes. Rather, and 730 00:41:34.199 --> 00:41:37.960 I underline this, he viewed the fervor of violence as 731 00:41:38.019 --> 00:41:44.739 a hygienic mechanism entirely congruent, congruous, with his own rejection 732 00:41:44.880 --> 00:41:46.500 of the linear view of history. 733 00:41:48.900 --> 00:41:51.219 Yeah. I mean, that, that's the best way. 734 00:41:51.239 --> 00:41:54.559 I know that seems verbose, but it's, it's hard to 735 00:41:54.599 --> 00:41:58.159 convey these things in, in, in kind of rational terms, 736 00:41:58.199 --> 00:41:59.809 but that's, yeah, I mean, that's the best way to 737 00:41:59.829 --> 00:42:02.449 think of to describe it. And that's, I mean, that's 738 00:42:02.550 --> 00:42:06.269 all the, uh, the degree to which, uh, I mean, 739 00:42:06.289 --> 00:42:12.400 this also, um, this, uh, some of this, um, Sorrel 740 00:42:12.420 --> 00:42:15.960 was definitely, like, in direct dialogue with the maestro. But 741 00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:20.940 some of this, again, is found in the kind

of 742 00:42:21.019 --> 00:42:30.300 pre-Socratic hero epics. Like, Sorrel saw the Socratic, what he 743 00:42:30.320 --> 00:42:35.030 views like the decadence of the Socratic era in Athens. 744 00:42:35.369 --> 00:42:37.829 He said what you were left with was, you know, 745 00:42:38.369 --> 00:42:42.739 instead of this monoclass of yeoman farmers, you know, the 746 00:42:42.760 --> 00:42:46.800 best of whom, you know, rose to leadership rank, whose 747 00:42:46.860 --> 00:42:50.340 education consisted of mythology and hero epics. What you had 748 00:42:50.400 --> 00:42:53.949 was they developed this class of professional politicians who relied 749 00:42:53.989 --> 00:42:57.730 upon intellectuals like Socrates to rationalize their rule, but neither 750 00:42:57.750 --> 00:43:00.449 of whom were capable of real action, and both resented 751 00:43:00.489 --> 00:43:03.130 each other, and both were afraid of and hostile to 752 00:43:03.190 --> 00:43:05.409 the Yeoman warriors. So you're left with this kind of, like, 753 00:43:05.489 --> 00:43:06.199 paralysis where. 754 00:43:08.920 --> 00:43:11.239 The men who should be the ones most capable of 755 00:43:11.260 --> 00:43:14.940 direct action and violence declare that this kind of thing 756 00:43:15.139 --> 00:43:17.920 is illegal and immoral because they're terrified of their own 757 00:43:17.940 --> 00:43:22.880 position being swept aside and their own lives being threatened 758 00:43:23.559 --> 00:43:26.460 by such a process. So there's this kind of ongoing 759 00:43:26.500 --> 00:43:31.300 paralysis where this meaningless discourse takes the place of action. 760 00:43:31.960 --> 00:43:34.610 And yeah, like I said in the intro that you 761 00:43:34.639 --> 00:43:38.179 just reiterated, It's not as though violence was so great 762 00:43:38.260 --> 00:43:39.920 or like the sexy thing that we all got to 763 00:43:39.940 --> 00:43:43.320 get into. He was saying that, you know, in political terms, 764 00:43:43.340 --> 00:43:45.760 you're not serious unless, you know, you're willing to implement 765 00:43:45.780 --> 00:43:49.010 your will through violence. And, in fact, he took human 766 00:43:49.090 --> 00:43:51.829 life and the taking of it very seriously. And that's 767 00:43:51.869 --> 00:43:55.329 one of the reasons why there's something sacrosanct about the 768 00:43:55.369 --> 00:43:58.469 revolutionary process. If you're literally willing to kill people, even 769 00:43:58.489 --> 00:44:02.300 if they're your enemies, and maybe especially if they're your enemies, like, 770 00:44:02.719 --> 00:44:04.980 that's a very serious thing. You know, it's not something 771 00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:07.559 you do flippantly. That's certainly not something you deal with 772 00:44:07.579 --> 00:44:13.159 petty disagreements. And, um, if you're willing to do that, uh, 773 00:44:13.400 --> 00:44:17.570 there's a sacred aspect to that, um, that commands, uh, 774 00:44:18.010 --> 00:44:22.929 a certain reverential observance. Um, I mean, it's, it's all 775 00:44:22.989 --> 00:44:27.690 those things, but that's also why, um, that's also, and 776 00:44:27.750 --> 00:44:32.989 until things reach that state, whether it's because, um, you know, the, the, 777 00:44:33.130 --> 00:44:35.989 like the, the exit system is failing structurally at such 778 00:44:36.010 --> 00:44:38.539 a point that people find themselves in these just dire 779 00:44:38.579 --> 00:44:43.539 circumstances where there's survival in jeopardy. Or when you're talking about, 780 00:44:43.559 --> 00:44:49.949 you know, a revolutionary circumstance incident to, you know, a 781 00:44:50.150 --> 00:44:55.869 wider kind of strategic pairing of warfare. You know, what, 782 00:44:55.889 --> 00:45:00.010 what necessitates these things is, is a convergence of extreme 783 00:45:00.280 --> 00:45:03.960 conditions and the human will and the hardening of the 784 00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:08.260 human heart within that will. So like when people in America, 785 00:45:08.440 --> 00:45:11.320 like at present, I mean, like talk about it, like, oh, 786 00:45:11.340 --> 00:45:14.340 Donald Trump is an extremist or, oh, you know, we're 787 00:45:14.559 --> 00:45:19.579 under siege by, quote, Marxists. You'll know when that's underway, man, 788 00:45:19.639 --> 00:45:23.239 because his body's being dropped. And thankfully that's not happening 789 00:45:23.760 --> 00:45:28.179 because in the American's condition, under present conditions I don't 790 00:45:28.639 --> 00:45:32.110 think that would lead to anything positive frankly I just 791 00:45:32.150 --> 00:45:36.929 don't that may change but for now it would mean 792 00:45:36.969 --> 00:45:39.510 a lot of suffering and a lot of dead people 793 00:45:39.550 --> 00:45:45.369 being stacked up for no real purpose but yeah that's 794 00:45:46.449 --> 00:45:49.630 that's also I don't want to get too far afield 795 00:45:49.730 --> 00:45:54.449 but this is intrinsic to anything that European political theorists 796 00:45:54.510 --> 00:45:58.340 wrote about really until the 20th century, this idea, this 797 00:45:58.389 --> 00:46:01.989 kind of Rawlsian, capital liberal idea that people have in America, 798 00:46:02.130 --> 00:46:05.030 kind of like on all sides of the political, or 799 00:46:05.130 --> 00:46:08.309 both sides of the political spectrum, of like, oh, politics 800 00:46:08.329 --> 00:46:11.269 is just this rational process that people decided to create 801 00:46:11.309 --> 00:46:14.869 and implement. Like, no Europeans thought that way. Politics is mysterious. 802 00:46:15.329 --> 00:46:21.190 And like, the zine of the political occurrence is warfare. And, 803 00:46:21.210 --> 00:46:24.969 you know, politics, like, warfare itself is its origin is mysterious. 804 00:46:25.289 --> 00:46:26.989 We don't really know why things are ordered this way. 805 00:46:27.010 --> 00:46:29.670 You know, even if you don't believe in God, there's, 806 00:46:29.809 -->

00:46:33.570 there's some kind of, there's, there's some kind of design. Even, 807 00:46:33.869 --> 00:46:36.349 even if it's just man acting out, you know, is, is, 808 00:46:36.510 --> 00:46:40.449 is programming like as, as in, as in an ant 809 00:46:40.469 --> 00:46:43.730 colony would, that's very mysterious and strange. We don't know 810 00:46:43.809 --> 00:46:46.829 why that happens, you know? So all you can really 811 00:46:46.849 --> 00:46:50.380 do is you're, you're truly like in quite, literal terms 812 00:46:50.420 --> 00:46:53.599 like riding the proverbial tiger to try and manage, um, 813 00:46:54.039 --> 00:46:58.920 you know, political occurrences and, and violence therein chooses us. 814 00:46:59.000 --> 00:47:00.320 We don't really choose it. 815 00:47:00.539 --> 00:47:05.809 So, um, there's an inherent, uh, kind of providential, uh, 816 00:47:06.510 --> 00:47:09.750 there's an inherent identification of providential things and phenomenon within 817 00:47:09.769 --> 00:47:14.630 the European mind, um, conceptually. So that's important to keep 818 00:47:14.670 --> 00:47:18.210 in mind. Like this really jumps out at me, I think, because, um, 819 00:47:19.099 --> 00:47:21.019 I mean, I'm very much like a God-centric person. I'm 820 00:47:21.039 --> 00:47:25.519 a Bible Protestant, but I'm like an old stock American. 821 00:47:25.559 --> 00:47:30.150 So like I'm inundated with kind of. 822 00:47:29.929 --> 00:47:32.750 Like American viewpoints and things, you know, and I always was. 823 00:47:33.670 --> 00:47:36.250 Even guys like Russell Kirk, you know, who was a Catholic, 824 00:47:37.710 --> 00:47:40.099 but he was kind of the quintessential like American, like 825 00:47:40.280 --> 00:47:43.320 20th century political historian. Like even he like falls into 826 00:47:43.340 --> 00:47:46.300 this kind of trap of kind of like Rawlsian and 827 00:47:46.780 --> 00:47:51.349 Habesian views. ontology about man kind of like rationally choosing 828 00:47:51.369 --> 00:47:54.349 to like organize politics this way and that's nonsense um 829 00:47:54.889 --> 00:47:56.809 and then maybe there's a topic for another episode but 830 00:47:56.849 --> 00:47:57.710 yeah yeah. 831 00:47:58.449 --> 00:48:02.260 I like that you mentioned how europeans view politics uh 832 00:48:02.340 --> 00:48:07.480 versus americans especially back then because and then earlier you 833 00:48:07.500 --> 00:48:11.219 had mentioned how you know people read spengler and he 834 00:48:12.300 --> 00:48:17.719 seemed it seems esoteric because i recommended um imperium to 835 00:48:17.780 --> 00:48:21.860 somebody And they started reading it and they're like, does 836 00:48:21.920 --> 00:48:24.679 it stay this esoteric? And then that's when you realize 837 00:48:24.739 --> 00:48:29.449 it's like, well, politics isn't one thing. We've been convinced, 838 00:48:29.489 --> 00:48:31.710 we've been taught in this country that politics is just 839 00:48:32.030 --> 00:48:36.190 one

thing or it's this side against this side. And no, 840 00:48:36.230 --> 00:48:39.139 politics has a very spiritual side to it. That's why 841 00:48:39.159 --> 00:48:42.280 I think a lot of people, especially people who are biblical, 842 00:48:43.079 --> 00:48:45.610 when they read Imperium and they read part one, they're 843 00:48:45.639 --> 00:48:49.010 completely blown away because they've never read politics like that before. 844 00:48:49.530 --> 00:48:50.469 That's a good point. Yeah. 845 00:48:50.909 --> 00:48:52.869 And Imperium is a really well-written book. It's not just 846 00:48:52.889 --> 00:48:55.849 cause I like Francis Yockey a lot. I mean, even 847 00:48:55.929 --> 00:48:57.869 before I even like knew anything about Francis Yockey, like 848 00:48:57.909 --> 00:49:00.760 his book would always pop up on IHR, uh, you know, 849 00:49:00.840 --> 00:49:04.880 IHR newsletters and what was Cardo obviously would always plug it. 850 00:49:05.719 --> 00:49:06.760 Um, and I got it. 851 00:49:06.780 --> 00:49:08.659 There was a, there was a huge bookstore at Evanston 852 00:49:08.840 --> 00:49:12.840 and like noontide press at that time. Um, which was 853 00:49:12.880 --> 00:49:16.300 Willis Carter's outfit, like they weren't currently stocking it. So 854 00:49:16.380 --> 00:49:17.579 this was like in 1997 or so. Like I, I, I, 855 00:49:21.199 --> 00:49:23.260 this used bookstore in Evanston, like, ordered me, like, an 856 00:49:23.280 --> 00:49:25.300 old hard copy of Imperium. You know, and I, like, 857 00:49:25.320 --> 00:49:28.800 took it home and read it. And I was like, wow, 858 00:49:28.840 --> 00:49:31.530 this is really intense stuff, and it's really insightful. So, 859 00:49:31.550 --> 00:49:33.530 I mean, I came to Yaki by reading his book 860 00:49:33.570 --> 00:49:39.289 and realizing, like, this is incredibly– you know, highly developed 861 00:49:39.329 --> 00:49:43.309 and serious stuff. And yeah, it's just really well written. 862 00:49:45.050 --> 00:49:47.690 Some of Yagi's language at the time seems overwrought because, 863 00:49:48.630 --> 00:49:53.179 you know, he was a litigation attorney. I mean, that 864 00:49:53.199 --> 00:49:56.900 kind of comes out. But that's also as part of 865 00:49:56.909 --> 00:49:59.119 like the time, though, like in the early, like really 866 00:49:59.219 --> 00:50:01.079 until like the 1950s, that's just kind of like the 867 00:50:01.099 --> 00:50:03.280 way people wrote. You're going to square people just like, 868 00:50:03.840 --> 00:50:06.699 you know, writing on behalf of some kind of like 869 00:50:06.739 --> 00:50:09.760 even somebody like writing like, uh, like an op-ed on 870 00:50:09.780 --> 00:50:12.460 behalf of like Eisenhower in like the early fifties, like 871 00:50:13.019 --> 00:50:15.159 it would seem kind of like overwrought to us probably like, 872 00:50:15.360 --> 00:50:18.550 but it, uh, the language I mean, but, but yeah, that's, um, 873 00:50:20.030 --> 00:50:22.230 you know, it's, uh, it's a, it's a serious book. 874 00:50:22.269 --> 00:50:25.570 Like whether you, you know, even if you, even if 875 00:50:25.610 --> 00:50:28.630 you're basically kind of hostile to fascism or, you know, 876 00:50:28.670 --> 00:50:31.949 post-fascist ideas, and even if you're not, you know, any 877 00:50:31.989 --> 00:50:35.340 kind of, any kind of germanophile i mean you can't 878 00:50:35.380 --> 00:50:38.010 like like if people claim like oh imperium's like mystical 879 00:50:38.070 --> 00:50:39.809 garbage like none of them have actually read the book 880 00:50:40.250 --> 00:50:41.610 i know it's like i've engaged them like well what 881 00:50:41.630 --> 00:50:43.809 do you object to specifically like they can't tell you 882 00:50:43.829 --> 00:50:46.650 they're just like repeating there's like repeating some nonsense they 883 00:50:46.670 --> 00:50:50.519 like read online or they're just you know it's just 884 00:50:50.539 --> 00:50:52.980 like some conceit they have that i guarantee you they 885 00:50:53.019 --> 00:50:56.559 have not actually read it i um Not because I'm 886 00:50:56.579 --> 00:50:59.559 so great, but because I'm like a bookworm. I've actually read, like, 887 00:50:59.940 --> 00:51:03.460 I've read Marx and Engels for 20 years. Like, when I, 888 00:51:03.480 --> 00:51:06.480 I don't want to sound off about a body of 889 00:51:06.920 --> 00:51:09.119 political theory that I haven't read. And you'll notice, like, 890 00:51:09.139 --> 00:51:10.340 when you're raising that, I haven't read it. I'll tell 891 00:51:10.360 --> 00:51:12.739 you straight up, like, I haven't read that. But, I don't, 892 00:51:12.780 --> 00:51:18.230 most people, most people don't sit around, like, you know, 893 00:51:19.389 --> 00:51:22.190 reading Das Kapital. Most people don't sit down and read, like, 894 00:51:22.269 --> 00:51:23.710 all 600 pages of Imperium. 895 00:51:23.730 --> 00:51:24.230 They just don't. 896 00:51:26.909 --> 00:51:28.570 Owing to the fact that everybody's got to live their 897 00:51:28.610 --> 00:51:30.210 life doing what they got to do. I'm lucky I 898 00:51:30.210 --> 00:51:32.469 have the time to like read this kind of shit. 899 00:51:32.599 --> 00:51:34.599 But it's also, I mean, people that I don't think 900 00:51:34.619 --> 00:51:36.900 people have the attention span anymore. Like even smart guys. 901 00:51:37.440 --> 00:51:39.659 Like I, one of the things I learned to do 902 00:51:39.719 --> 00:51:42.820 in law school, if, if I derived anything about my 903 00:51:42.860 --> 00:51:45.139 experience is like, I can sit down for like nine 904 00:51:45.179 --> 00:51:47.659 hours and like power through like pages and pages and 905 00:51:47.679 --> 00:51:50.679 pages of dense text. Um, there's things I'd much rather 906 00:51:50.739 --> 00:51:52.880 do than that, but I can do it. And like, 907 00:51:52.900 --> 00:51:55.809 you know, it doesn't like, it's not like torture to me. 908 00:51:56.050 -->

00:51:56.349 So yeah. 909 00:51:57.590 --> 00:52:01.869 A part of the foreword is under the title Modernist 910 00:52:01.909 --> 00:52:07.179 Violence in Service of Ancient Virtues. And something that I– 911 00:52:07.199 --> 00:52:11.539 a couple sections I'm going to pick out here. He 912 00:52:11.579 --> 00:52:15.519 viewed the organization, management, and economics of the homestead and 913 00:52:15.539 --> 00:52:19.840 the cultural values intrinsic to this enterprise as being inextricably 914 00:52:19.980 --> 00:52:25.260 linked to and mutually reinforcing of military competence and endeavors 915 00:52:25.440 --> 00:52:30.449 and the waging of war itself. moving down, he further 916 00:52:30.510 --> 00:52:33.769 views the yeoman homestead as a school of command. A 917 00:52:33.829 --> 00:52:36.909 man must rule his wife and children firmly, but also 918 00:52:36.969 --> 00:52:40.690 caringly and justly. He must also demonstrate his worthiness to 919 00:52:40.730 --> 00:52:44.170 wield his authority. A man's wife and children are obliged 920 00:52:44.230 --> 00:52:48.090 to obey his commands, but only insofar as his command 921 00:52:48.909 --> 00:52:53.380 role is tempered by correct virtues and practical reason. Do 922 00:52:53.420 --> 00:52:56.440 you think that is why the founding of this country, 923 00:52:56.519 --> 00:52:59.949 like actually worked in the beginning, in the beginning. 924 00:53:01.230 --> 00:53:01.690 Yeah. Yeah. 925 00:53:01.730 --> 00:53:04.869 And like I said, it calls back to, um, if 926 00:53:04.889 --> 00:53:08.730 you read, uh, if, if you read what these Confederate 927 00:53:08.969 --> 00:53:11.250 like mental letters are writing about, I mean, that, that's 928 00:53:11.269 --> 00:53:13.610 what they, that was their mythology. They were calling upon, 929 00:53:14.190 --> 00:53:15.730 they were, they were calling upon Athens. 930 00:53:16.250 --> 00:53:16.570 Okay. 931 00:53:16.590 --> 00:53:19.139 I mean, like later, you know, you read everything from 932 00:53:19.159 --> 00:53:23.980 Walker Percy to, uh, to Michael Shara, you know, that 933 00:53:24.000 --> 00:53:26.500 were the killer angels, uh, You know, they evoke, like, 934 00:53:26.539 --> 00:53:29.360 Arthurian legend and stuff. But, I mean, really the way 935 00:53:29.380 --> 00:53:32.260 the Southerners thought of themselves, it was like that. You know, 936 00:53:33.219 --> 00:53:34.880 and that's why, like, you know, in terms of, like, 937 00:53:34.920 --> 00:53:37.820 place names and everything else, you know, like Athenian references, 938 00:53:37.840 --> 00:53:40.110 you know, were ubiquitous in the Antebellum South. And to 939 00:53:40.150 --> 00:53:43.110 some degree, like, still are in the South. And, yeah, 940 00:53:43.130 --> 00:53:45.469 that's the way they viewed it. Because, again, the South 941 00:53:45.510 --> 00:53:52.340 was not the Habsburg Empire. It was a yeomanry who 942 00:53:52.380 --> 00:53:55.150 viewed themselves as kind of like

a monocast. you know, like, 943 00:53:55.170 --> 00:53:59.610 that's why, and I mean, part of that was possible because, like, 944 00:53:59.789 --> 00:54:04.360 slavery was racialized, you know, like, so, I mean, you 945 00:54:04.380 --> 00:54:07.139 dated somebody that was a monocast, like, even, even, like, 946 00:54:07.179 --> 00:54:10.219 a poor, even, like, a poor, like, white, like, tenant 947 00:54:10.300 --> 00:54:13.170 farmer and, like, a lord of the manor, like, they 948 00:54:13.210 --> 00:54:15.829 had some kind of political interest in common, like, kind 949 00:54:15.849 --> 00:54:18.210 of for the slaves. Now, I know that, like, I 950 00:54:18.230 --> 00:54:20.289 know people like Howard Zinn would be like, oh, that's 951 00:54:20.309 --> 00:54:23.269 because they were just educated in, you know, racial prejudice. Like, 952 00:54:23.289 --> 00:54:27.329 that's not the case. Like, people do obviously identify in 953 00:54:27.369 --> 00:54:30.929 communitarian terms, like, along racial and cultural lines. And it's 954 00:54:30.949 --> 00:54:35.730 only possible... And it's really only possible if there is, like, 955 00:54:35.750 --> 00:54:37.250 an us-and-them, like, paradigm. 956 00:54:37.530 --> 00:54:40.199 That's not good or bad. It's just the way it is. And, yeah, that's... 957 00:54:40.949 --> 00:54:44.300 If you... And the North was a little bit different. 958 00:54:45.300 --> 00:54:47.059 But at the same time, too, like I said, even. 959 00:54:48.059 --> 00:54:51.840 You know, the old right, what was called the old 960 00:54:51.920 --> 00:54:54.719 right in the 20th century, you know, America First and 961 00:54:54.760 --> 00:55:00.289 Robert Taft and stuff, those guys were Hamiltonian Republicans. 962 00:55:00.309 --> 00:55:01.809 They were like northern city slickers. 963 00:55:02.250 --> 00:55:07.170 But at the same time, you know, they viewed kind 964 00:55:07.230 --> 00:55:10.389 of the American ideal, you know, as like the small businessman, 965 00:55:10.590 --> 00:55:12.880 like our version of the Kulak, you know, like they... 966 00:55:13.670 --> 00:55:16.949 I maintain it's not just a confederate conceit that is 967 00:55:17.010 --> 00:55:20.710 truly like the old American ethos. And yeah, it's got no... 968 00:55:21.230 --> 00:55:24.579 It's got nothing... There is no Caesar in that equation. 969 00:55:25.280 --> 00:55:28.500 So it's... There's no Caesar and there's not even a 970 00:55:28.539 --> 00:55:34.820 King Arthur. There's the ideal... Like the American hero, he's 971 00:55:34.840 --> 00:55:37.840 an archetype. He's not a king or he's not like 972 00:55:37.889 --> 00:55:41.409 a man in a certain official role. So yeah, I 973 00:55:41.429 --> 00:55:43.849 think that's fundamentally important. And I admit, I mean, that's 974 00:55:43.869 --> 00:55:46.010 the way I think, like, not even consciously. Like, I, 975 00:55:46.030 --> 00:55:48.730 you know, that's why I think some of these, like, 976 00:55:48.849 -->

00:55:51.010 trad guys on the Internet are weirdos. Like, I'm not 977 00:55:51.050 --> 00:55:53.469 talking about, like, actual, like, Russian guys, or I'm not 978 00:55:53.489 --> 00:55:58.550 talking about, you know, some of these Muslim guys who 979 00:55:59.159 --> 00:56:01.199 abide that worldview, too. I thought, you know, like, guys 980 00:56:01.239 --> 00:56:03.699 like Terry Hood, Indiana, who, like, decide that they're, like, 981 00:56:03.820 --> 00:56:07.019 trad Catholics or something. It's like, bro, like, what, you 982 00:56:07.039 --> 00:56:09.989 want to, like, you want to prepare? You want to 983 00:56:10.010 --> 00:56:12.219 pretend it's, you know, we got a king here or 984 00:56:12.260 --> 00:56:13.739 something or you want to pretend you're in the court 985 00:56:13.780 --> 00:56:15.599 of Caesar? Like, why the fuck would you want to 986 00:56:15.619 --> 00:56:17.659 do that? And plus, I mean, it's not like our 987 00:56:17.719 --> 00:56:20.659 heritage anyway. You know, like that doesn't that doesn't work. 988 00:56:20.679 --> 00:56:24.010 People hate to hear this, but I mean, we're a 989 00:56:24.050 --> 00:56:24.849 Protestant country. 990 00:56:26.289 --> 00:56:28.710 Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. 991 00:56:28.750 --> 00:56:30.809 I mean, I agree with you, Michael Jones. Like if 992 00:56:30.829 --> 00:56:35.139 you are like, you know, culturally Catholic. I mean, Jones 993 00:56:35.179 --> 00:56:38.599 is right. Like America wasn't as a massively anti-Catholic country. 994 00:56:38.619 --> 00:56:40.900 I don't think that's a good thing because I'm not 995 00:56:40.920 --> 00:56:46.500 a bigot. But that this idea you can reconcile Americanism 996 00:56:46.699 --> 00:56:49.739 with Roman Catholicism and just make the Pope some kind 997 00:56:49.760 --> 00:56:52.739 of like first deacon or some kind of like, you know, 998 00:56:52.980 --> 00:56:56.219 or some kind of like equivalent of Billy Graham like that. 999 00:56:56.480 --> 00:57:00.110 That's ridiculous. Like that. That's not Catholicism then. You know, 1000 00:57:00.130 --> 00:57:00.849 you're just like some. 1001 00:57:00.690 --> 00:57:05.429 Guy who like goes to mass occasionally and, you know, 1002 00:57:05.469 --> 00:57:07.900 Christmas Eve at midnight, you know, goes to like a 1003 00:57:07.940 --> 00:57:12.480 local parish. But that Catholicism has actual implications for politics 1004 00:57:12.519 --> 00:57:15.480 and authority. And like the Pope is either, the Pope's 1005 00:57:15.539 --> 00:57:18.019 either the emperor of Europe in absolute terms or he's not. 1006 00:57:18.579 --> 00:57:21.659 You know, I mean, he's not Billy Graham. He's not 1007 00:57:22.099 --> 00:57:24.119 this deacon in a weird hat who like we all 1008 00:57:24.159 --> 00:57:26.250 kind of listen to when we want to. You know, 1009 00:57:26.289 --> 00:57:28.849 like he is either God's emissary on earth or he's not. 1010 00:57:29.739 --> 00:57:31.900 you know, in my fight, I'm not a Catholic, but 1011 00:57:32.440 --> 00:57:34.889 if you are, you can't, you can't be a Catholic 1012 00:57:34.929 --> 00:57:36.630 and then decide that like, you're going to like pretend 1013 00:57:36.670 --> 00:57:41.010 Joe Biden is the president, you know, like, yeah. 1014 00:57:41.030 --> 00:57:43.289 I wanted to, I wanted to read this one section 1015 00:57:43.429 --> 00:57:48.739 under anti-modern modernism. Um, it says, uh, Sorrell shared with 1016 00:57:48.800 --> 00:57:53.139 Pradone and Hobbes, a pessimistic view of nature. This is 1017 00:57:53.280 --> 00:57:56.440 one facet of Sorelian thought that fundamentally alters the way 1018 00:57:56.480 --> 00:58:00.139 in which Sorel's relationship to socialism is to be understood. 1019 00:58:00.920 --> 00:58:04.519 Sorel viewed man as basically mired in sin and driven 1020 00:58:04.559 --> 00:58:07.739 by his own avarice and egoism and desire for his 1021 00:58:07.860 --> 00:58:11.639 own gain. This tendency in the Sorelian view, and this 1022 00:58:11.699 --> 00:58:15.559 is the part I underlined, is only overcome by submission 1023 00:58:15.639 --> 00:58:21.230 to sovereign authority, customary as well as formal, in ordinary conditions, 1024 00:58:21.530 --> 00:58:27.320 and when necessary, by immersion in collectively dynamic and violent efforts, 1025 00:58:28.780 --> 00:58:37.179 often themselves both revolutionary and restorative in character. Sorel's commitment 1026 00:58:37.199 --> 00:58:42.219 to socialism must be understood within this context that socialism, 1027 00:58:42.280 --> 00:58:47.340 for better or worse, was considered a historic inevitability in 1028 00:58:47.389 --> 00:58:50.460 structural terms, and if nothing else, It was at least 1029 00:58:50.559 --> 00:58:53.800 grudgingly stipulated, even by many of its staunchest critics on 1030 00:58:53.820 --> 00:58:56.949 the European right, that at least some concessions to the 1031 00:58:57.010 --> 00:59:00.570 popular demands of socialist parties would need to be made 1032 00:59:00.650 --> 00:59:04.750 for any future government to enjoy the legitimacy it required 1033 00:59:04.809 --> 00:59:06.030 to effectively rule. 1034 00:59:06.050 --> 00:59:00.550 Yeah. And that's why... Yeah. 1035 00:59:01.030 --> 00:59:08.489 And that explains the ascendancy. 1036 00:59:05.860 --> 00:59:12.179 Of the NSDAP and Adolf. 1037 00:59:14.000 --> 00:59:14.360 Hitler. 1038 00:59:14.420 --> 00:59:16.340 I mean, Hitler was always more popular than the party, 1039 00:59:16.440 --> 00:59:23.130 but eventually, you know, Hindenburg personally disliked Hitler. And I 1040 00:59:23.130 --> 00:59:27.110 think Hindenburg personally disliked the National Socialists. But, you know, again, 1041 00:59:27.130 --> 00:59:33.500 the Stahlhelm wasn't going anywhere. for that reason that Sorrell 1042 00:59:33.800 --> 00:59:35.960 outlined and that I just kind of like explicated in 1043 00:59:36.199 --> 00:59:44.050 plain English. The, you know, this, there's, I

realized that, 1044 00:59:44.289 --> 00:59:47.530 you know, in, from the 20th century onward, especially with 1045 00:59:47.550 --> 00:59:49.909 the advent of visual media, as well as, you know, the. 1046 00:59:49.889 --> 00:59:51.329 Concentration of power. 1047 00:59:52.510 --> 00:59:57.610 In key loci and the ability of consolidated governments to, 1048 00:59:58.690 --> 01:00:01.989 you know, to kind of dictate policy, you know, there's 1049 01:00:02.010 --> 01:00:04.730 a power to kind of create a conceptual horizon. You know, 1050 01:00:04.750 --> 01:00:09.570 like in the Oliver Stone movie, Natural Born Killers, you know, 1051 01:00:09.590 --> 01:00:11.949 like Woody Harrelson says, he says to the reporter, like, 1052 01:00:12.010 --> 01:00:13.989 media is like weather, but it's man-made weather. 1053 01:00:14.489 --> 01:00:17.150 Like, that's actually really poignant. Okay? 1054 01:00:17.190 --> 01:00:19.969 And like I stipulate that, that's very true. At the 1055 01:00:20.010 --> 01:00:22.280 same time, you can't just generate some kind of like 1056 01:00:22.300 --> 01:00:25.199 revolutionary tendency out of the air, and you can't just 1057 01:00:25.280 --> 01:00:28.820 quash one that's emergent. So this idea that You know, 1058 01:00:28.960 --> 01:00:31.039 I mean, I think Adolf Hitler believed everything he said, 1059 01:00:31.099 --> 01:00:33.000 for better or worse. Whether you think Hitler was great 1060 01:00:33.039 --> 01:00:34.760 or whether you think he was evil, like, he wasn't 1061 01:00:34.800 --> 01:00:38.079 a liar and he wasn't a politician in the conventional sense. Like, 1062 01:00:38.099 --> 01:00:41.099 he believed everything he said. He didn't take on, like, 1063 01:00:41.139 --> 01:00:46.159 a socialist program like Thalman claimed and the KVD claimed, 1064 01:00:46.179 --> 01:00:49.610 you know, just for cynical reasons. Like, he believed in it. Like, 1065 01:00:49.679 --> 01:00:53.010 even if you didn't, like, yeah, it was, the reality 1066 01:00:53.070 --> 01:00:53.590 was that. 1067 01:00:53.610 --> 01:00:55.829 He may be wrong, but he never lied. 1068 01:00:55.849 --> 01:00:56.550 Yeah. Yeah. 1069 01:00:57.039 --> 01:01:01.699 And the Weimar voter had a socialist sensibility. Like, you 1070 01:01:01.739 --> 01:01:03.949 could say that that was bad or that you didn't 1071 01:01:04.010 --> 01:01:06.550 accept that. It's like, well, okay, but then you're not 1072 01:01:06.630 --> 01:01:10.170 in the game. You know, so there's no way any 1073 01:01:10.190 --> 01:01:13.360 kind of, like, reactionary party or some kind of, like, 1074 01:01:13.429 --> 01:01:17.800 Kaiser-like revanchist party, like, would have gone anywhere in Germany. 1075 01:01:17.820 --> 01:01:21.440 Like, it just wouldn't have. You know, and like. 1076 01:01:21.360 --> 01:01:24.280 I said, that wasn't just, like, the fervor of, like, 1077 01:01:24.300 --> 01:01:28.659 you know, the kind of red-waved after 1921-22, it was, 1078 01:01:28.800 --> 01:01:33.739 it was, like, deeply insinuated into, like, the German consciousness. 1079 01:01:34.320 --> 01:01:36.880 You know, like, the, uh, this idea, you know, like, 1080 01:01:36.900 --> 01:01:40.900 like we talked about at the top of the hour, like, the, the, um, 1081 01:01:41.760 --> 01:01:46.110 you know, uh, socialism as we know it, essentially, you know, 1082 01:01:46.130 --> 01:01:51.150 came from, came from Prussia and, and came from, uh, that, 1083 01:01:52.130 --> 01:01:56.820 that state of organization which itself was derived from this 1084 01:01:56.860 --> 01:01:59.929 desire of, and this fundamental imperative to kind of repair 1085 01:01:59.969 --> 01:02:02.969 the social fabric that had ceased to exist after, you know, 1086 01:02:02.989 --> 01:02:09.590 the medieval era disappeared into, into historical time. I got 1087 01:02:09.610 --> 01:02:12.110 to raise up in a minute though. So let's, we can, 1088 01:02:12.130 --> 01:02:13.630 we can do a part two on this if you want. 1089 01:02:13.730 --> 01:02:14.090 Sure. 1090 01:02:14.269 --> 01:02:14.610 Sure. 1091 01:02:14.650 --> 01:02:15.869 But yeah, I, yeah. 1092 01:02:15.889 --> 01:02:17.829 If there's anything else you want to hit just real 1093 01:02:17.889 --> 01:02:20.570 quick though, in terms of key points, let's take those 1094 01:02:20.630 --> 01:02:20.949 up now. 1095 01:02:21.349 --> 01:02:21.590 Okay. 1096 01:02:21.610 --> 01:02:23.570 Let's just do one, one last question. 1097 01:02:24.010 --> 01:02:24.300 Yeah, man. 1098 01:02:25.260 --> 01:02:27.679 Do you think America has ever had a right wing? 1099 01:02:27.900 --> 01:02:30.960 And if they did, when did it disappear? Do they 1100 01:02:30.980 --> 01:02:31.840 have a right wing now? 1101 01:02:33.559 --> 01:02:34.719 Yeah, I'm going to deal with the first part of 1102 01:02:34.739 --> 01:02:38.429 the question first. The war between the states, there was 1103 01:02:38.639 --> 01:02:42.530 not a conventionally right-left paradigm to that, but it was 1104 01:02:42.550 --> 01:02:46.130 the precursor of it. I mean, there were guys in 1105 01:02:46.150 --> 01:02:47.170 the North who. 1106 01:02:49.960 --> 01:02:52.130 Who were kind of nullifiers, who didn't really want to, 1107 01:02:52.360 --> 01:02:54.309 you know, who were the free soilers, who didn't really 1108 01:02:54.329 --> 01:02:56.269 want a part of the war between the states, but 1109 01:02:56.289 --> 01:03:01.289 they were highly racially conscious and highly anti-government. But if 1110 01:03:01.309 --> 01:03:03.849 you're talking about the actual partisans, you know, like the 1111 01:03:03.869 --> 01:03:06.030 kind of, like kind of the true like rebels in 1112 01:03:06.050 --> 01:03:09.380 the South, and you're talking about the fire eaters in 1113 01:03:09.389 --> 01:03:14.880 the North, you like, and the, like the radical abolitionists, like, 1114 01:03:15.269 --> 01:03:18.969 That was something of a precursor to right-left divide in America. 1115

01:03:19.050 --> 01:03:21.929 It's an imperfect analogy, but there's that. 1116 01:03:23.380 --> 01:03:23.780 Later, I. 1117 01:03:26.159 --> 01:03:28.940 Agree with basically what Pat Buchanan wrote in the 80s 1118 01:03:29.000 --> 01:03:36.099 and 90s about the old right being the Hamiltonian Robert 1119 01:03:36.139 --> 01:03:41.539 Taft right, the America First right. That was the emergent 1120 01:03:41.599 --> 01:03:50.059 American right in modern terms. And, you know, in the 1121 01:03:50.199 --> 01:03:52.639 20th century, the war between the states wasn't ancient history. 1122 01:03:52.659 --> 01:03:54.389 It was less than 100 years in the past. 1123 01:03:54.989 --> 01:03:59.050 Okay. So, I mean, like America is like a consolidated 1124 01:03:59.969 --> 01:04:03.530 national union was a pretty new thing. So there's that too. 1125 01:04:06.289 --> 01:04:09.650 I believe I'm always making the point that, you know, 1126 01:04:09.670 --> 01:04:13.039 the Nuremberg system replacing the Westphalian system was that had 1127 01:04:13.099 --> 01:04:16.519 not just profound implications for international order and war and 1128 01:04:16.559 --> 01:04:24.110 peace and the conceptual horizon of heads of state, but 1129 01:04:24.349 --> 01:04:28.309 it also, it made the political right quite literally illegal 1130 01:04:28.969 --> 01:04:32.269 because that was half of the reason for holding the 1131 01:04:32.309 --> 01:04:34.610 Nuremberg Proceedings in the first place is to say that, 1132 01:04:35.150 --> 01:04:38.840 you know, okay, like, you know, the allies were on 1133 01:04:38.880 --> 01:04:43.320 the side of providence and history And opposition to that, 1134 01:04:43.420 --> 01:04:45.420 which is the right wing, you know, this is a 1135 01:04:45.500 --> 01:04:51.000 criminal conspiracy of racist murders, you know, and obviously, you know, 1136 01:04:51.119 --> 01:04:54.389 no rational actors such as, you know, the Marxist-Leninists in 1137 01:04:54.409 --> 01:04:57.170 Moscow and the New Dealers in Washington would ever start 1138 01:04:57.190 --> 01:04:59.750 a war. So wars were only started, you know, by 1139 01:04:59.769 --> 01:05:04.469 the intrigues and conspiracies of brigands and criminals and racists. 1140 01:05:04.929 --> 01:05:06.980 And that's what the right wing is. You know, so 1141 01:05:07.239 --> 01:05:10.360 it's illegal to hold these views because they result in 1142 01:05:10.400 --> 01:05:15.719 genocide and warfare. That's why after that's why there was 1143 01:05:15.760 --> 01:05:22.570 no like Huey Long or Robert Taft after 1949 or 48, 49. OK, 1144 01:05:22.690 --> 01:05:27.670 like you, the closest thing was a guy like Joe McCarthy. 1145 01:05:27.730 --> 01:05:31.590 But obviously, you know, there were the the deep state 1146 01:05:31.610 --> 01:05:35.050 close ranks to wipe him out. I'm not saying McCarthy 1147 01:05:35.070 --> 01:05:38.099 was a great guy. I'm not saying morally. I think 1148 01:05:38.139 --> 01:05:39.420 he was kind. 1149 01:05:39.139 --> 01:05:39.659 Of a bumpkin. 1150 01:05:39.679 --> 01:05:42.079 I don't think he was a great figurehead. I've got 1151 01:05:42.099 --> 01:05:45.119 my own issues with him. Certainly his association with Roy 1152 01:05:45.159 --> 01:05:49.420 Cohn didn't do him any favors for all kinds of reasons. 1153 01:05:49.480 --> 01:05:53.320 We'll get into that in our Cold War series. That 1154 01:05:53.360 --> 01:05:57.800 was basically the American right as it was ossifying. Huey Long, 1155 01:05:57.969 --> 01:06:04.170 Robert Taft, Wallace was a resurgence of that. And, of course, 1156 01:06:04.190 --> 01:06:08.150 Nixon took on the Wallace Coalition, which became the Reagan Coalition, 1157 01:06:08.170 --> 01:06:12.849 which became MAGA. That's right-wing in the American sense. I mean, 1158 01:06:12.869 --> 01:06:16.070 I think it's somewhat of a protest movement. But if 1159 01:06:17.360 --> 01:06:22.119 those people had better leadership and if they had a 1160 01:06:22.139 --> 01:06:27.280 stronger intellectual foundation, I think they'd very much identify with 1161 01:06:27.340 --> 01:06:32.010 Taftian principles, like actual America First principles. So, yeah, I mean, 1162 01:06:32.030 --> 01:06:36.650 I think, I think that's basically genuine. I think there's 1163 01:06:36.670 --> 01:06:39.869 a lot of silly stuff, like, within, I mean, if 1164 01:06:39.889 --> 01:06:42.070 we still consider, like, Mega to be a movement, like, the, 1165 01:06:42.949 --> 01:06:44.969 you know, the, I was on the ground on January 6th, 1166 01:06:45.010 --> 01:06:48.780 and I'm not saying that to sound like, I mean, like, 1167 01:06:48.800 --> 01:06:50.219 speaking of the Antworn Killer, I'm not trying to come 1168 01:06:50.260 --> 01:06:51.159 off like Robert Downey Jr. 1169 01:06:51.159 --> 01:06:52.969 's character to say, you know, like, I was there 1170 01:06:52.989 --> 01:06:55.090 when the shit went down in Grenada. I was there. 1171 01:06:55.110 --> 01:06:59.190 I'm not trying to come off like that, but, like, 1172 01:06:59.210 --> 01:07:01.139 I raise that a lot because, like, people say all 1173 01:07:01.159 --> 01:07:03.059 kinds of crazy stuff about January 6th. 1174 01:07:03.639 --> 01:07:05.219 And, like, when I tell them, like, they're wrong, and 1175 01:07:05.239 --> 01:07:06.699 they're like, well, how do you know? It's like, well, 1176 01:07:06.719 --> 01:07:11.489 because I was there, fucker. Like, that's how. But, and 1177 01:07:11.949 --> 01:07:14.650 those people were gutsy, I think, a lot of them, for, like, 1178 01:07:14.710 --> 01:07:17.389 turning out in depth. you know, to. 1179 01:07:17.510 --> 01:07:21.010 Exhibit their discontent, which was entirely well-placed, but it was 1180 01:07:21.030 --> 01:07:23.670 also just, like, a lot of, like, fucking real goofs, man, and, like, 1181 01:07:23.690 --> 01:07:27.929 guys doing dumb shit, you know, like, like that freaking weirdo, like, 1182

01:07:27.949 --> 01:07:30.730 who painted himself up like Braveheart, like, running around like 1183 01:07:30.750 --> 01:07:32.550 a fucking idiot, like, I saw a lot of, like, 1184 01:07:32.570 --> 01:07:36.260 that kind of shit, and there's, like, goofy stuff like that, that, 1185 01:07:36.639 --> 01:07:40.400 you know, like, on the mega right, um, so, I mean, there's, like, 1186 01:07:40.420 --> 01:07:43.559 more than, like, a seed of potential, and, they are 1187 01:07:43.599 --> 01:07:46.179 in some real way like the heirs to like, you know, 1188 01:07:46.280 --> 01:07:50.179 the Taft Hamiltonian, um, and later like the, you know, 1189 01:07:50.199 --> 01:07:56.639 the Wallace Nixon Reagan, uh, coalition, but it's problematic because 1190 01:07:56.659 --> 01:07:59.539 like America is problematic in terms of how politics breaks down. 1191 01:07:59.559 --> 01:08:01.519 I mean, that's my view of it. I'm sure I'm not, 1192 01:08:01.599 --> 01:08:04.260 I'm not saying bad. I'm not trashing mega people. I mean, 1193 01:08:04.300 --> 01:08:07.559 most of my friends are, are constitute or people like that. 1194 01:08:07.639 --> 01:08:09.590 You know, I'm not, I'm not some snob. I mean, 1195 01:08:09.610 --> 01:08:11.599 how can I be what, Um, so I don't want 1196 01:08:11.619 --> 01:08:14.260 people to think I'm like saying mean things about them, but, um, 1197 01:08:15.099 --> 01:08:18.479 but yeah, uh, that's my view at a glance. 1198 01:08:19.470 --> 01:08:21.390 I know you need to get out of here. Uh, 1199 01:08:21.409 --> 01:08:22.770 do plugs real quick and we'll do that. 1200 01:08:23.930 --> 01:08:27.189 Yeah. Thank you, Pete. Um, you can find me on 1201 01:08:27.250 --> 01:08:29.989 Twitter at Triskelion Jihad. 1202 01:08:30.489 --> 01:08:33.010 Uh, the T is a number seven, but if, I 1203 01:08:33.069 --> 01:08:35.789 think if you search for Thomas seven, seven, seven, I 1204 01:08:35.810 --> 01:08:40.079 come up, um, I got kicked off at T-Gram for 1205 01:08:40.140 --> 01:08:41.939 criticizing Mr. 1206 01:08:41.960 --> 01:08:43.260 Zielinski, which is interesting. 1207 01:08:43.300 --> 01:08:45.899 On T-Gram, there's guys who literally post, like, really gross, like, 1208 01:08:45.939 --> 01:08:50.020 pornography and, like, pictures of dead people, like, really awful stuff. 1209 01:08:50.100 --> 01:08:51.560 I mean, I don't want to sound like some fucking 1210 01:08:52.180 --> 01:08:53.899 shrinking violet, but I, I mean, I find that kind 1211 01:08:53.930 --> 01:08:56.649 of stuff upsetting, you know, and, like, I, but, so 1212 01:08:56.670 --> 01:08:59.029 that's okay, but, like, if you trash, like, Zelensky, like 1213 01:08:59.060 --> 01:09:02.340 you get like nuked. So, I mean, Hey, I, it's, 1214 01:09:02.460 --> 01:09:04.619 it's neither here nor there. We don't need T-gram anymore 1215 01:09:04.779 --> 01:09:08.399 because the center zip regime is, is, is, has been 1216 01:09:08.640 --> 01:09:11.279 broken in some way, like enough that at least that 1217 01:09:11.300 --> 01:09:13.680 we can get our message out. But so I'm not 1218 01:09:13.699 --> 01:09:24.899 on T-gram anymore. Um, but on my sub stack, It's realthomas777. substack. com. 1219 01:09:20.079 --> 01:09:23.020 There's a chat in there. And if you're a subscriber, like, 1220 01:09:23.039 --> 01:09:24.319 you don't need to pay, but you do need to 1221 01:09:24.340 --> 01:09:26.119 subscribe to access the chat. 1222 01:09:26.479 --> 01:09:29.479 And, like, that's, like, where we've been congregating. And you 1223 01:09:29.500 --> 01:09:31.500 can always, like, hit me up on email if you 1224 01:09:31.520 --> 01:09:33.840 want to talk to me direct. It might take me 1225 01:09:33.880 --> 01:09:35.859 a week or two to reply just because I get 1226 01:09:35.880 --> 01:09:40.579 a lot of email. It's zartax777 at protonmail.com. And, yeah, 1227 01:09:40.619 --> 01:09:41.619 that's all I got. 1228 01:09:46.159 --> 01:09:47.939 Well, I appreciate your time. Thanks a lot, man. 1229 01:09:48.399 --> 01:09:49.899 No, likewise, man. This was great. Thank you. 1230 01:09:49.920 --> 01:09:56.140 Welcome back to the Picanhona Show. Returning for part two 1231 01:09:57.079 --> 01:10:00.949 on George Sorrell, it's Thomas777. How are you doing, sir? 1232 01:10:01.770 --> 01:10:02.850 I'm very well, thanks, man. 1233 01:10:04.189 --> 01:10:08.449 And like I indicated before we went live, there's been 1234 01:10:08.470 --> 01:10:14.090 an overwhelmingly positive response to covering Sorrell. Our first episode 1235 01:10:14.109 --> 01:10:17.779 on Sorrell, I mean, and that's That's fantastic, not because 1236 01:10:17.819 --> 01:10:20.239 it gives my ego a boost, although frankly it kind 1237 01:10:20.260 --> 01:10:22.090 of does, and I'm not ashamed to say that, but 1238 01:10:23.710 --> 01:10:26.989 the fact that people are engaging with Sorrel in a 1239 01:10:27.010 --> 01:10:32.489 meaningful way is great. It's essential to understanding the 20th 1240 01:10:32.529 --> 01:10:37.420 century and the trajectory of the political right and how 1241 01:10:37.520 --> 01:10:44.560 European political culture developed in fundamental ways. More and more 1242 01:10:44.579 --> 01:10:46.840 what we do I mean, it's important to educate our 1243 01:10:46.880 --> 01:10:51.239 people and our faction, as it were, anyway, but, you know, 1244 01:10:51.439 --> 01:10:54.319 mainstream academia just is not taking these things up. The 1245 01:10:54.340 --> 01:10:56.899 exception is guys like Paul Godfrey, but, I mean, he's 1246 01:10:56.939 --> 01:10:59.060 really on his own, you know, I mean, I mean, 1247 01:10:59.659 --> 01:11:03.279 obviously Godfrey's not, you know, one of us writ large, 1248 01:11:03.340 --> 01:11:10.479 but he's a serious political theorist, but he's, you know, 1249 01:11:10.520 --> 01:11:13.170 he's found a niche audience, kind of like E. Michael 1250 01:11:13.229 --> 01:11:19.800 Jones has, but My point being that what we're doing

1251 01:11:19.850 --> 01:11:20.489 is really. 1252 01:11:20.729 --> 01:11:25.939 Kind of satisfying a demand. 1253 01:11:26.119 --> 01:11:27.960 And the fact that demand exists in the first place 1254 01:11:28.920 --> 01:11:31.539 is a very positive tendency because that was not the 1255 01:11:31.579 --> 01:11:33.039 case 20 years ago. 1256 01:11:33.899 --> 01:11:39.920 But, yeah, we can dive in immediately, man. All right. 1257 01:11:40.399 --> 01:11:42.340 Well, here's something to start out with. 1258 01:11:42.899 --> 01:11:43.079 Yeah. 1259 01:11:43.659 --> 01:11:47.319 What did, what did Sorrell consider himself? You're, you know, 1260 01:11:47.340 --> 01:11:52.000 you read this and definitely brings up syndicalism a lot. Definitely. Um, 1261 01:11:52.199 --> 01:11:54.619 and also we know that he changed his mind on 1262 01:11:54.659 --> 01:11:58.430 some things as, uh, as his life progressed. So, um, 1263 01:11:58.630 --> 01:12:01.569 when you read Sorrell, when you read reflections on violence, 1264 01:12:01.609 --> 01:12:07.189 what is he, how, how do you see the framework with, uh, 1265 01:12:07.229 --> 01:12:08.600 that he's personally writing it? 1266 01:12:09.210 --> 01:12:11.329 What I think of Sorrell, I mean, that's, that's, that's 1267 01:12:11.350 --> 01:12:13.810 a great question. What I think of Sorrell personally, I 1268 01:12:14.090 --> 01:12:15.729 think he's a pure, I think he was a pure 1269 01:12:15.789 --> 01:12:18.109 political theorist in a lot of ways. And that's one 1270 01:12:18.130 --> 01:12:21.319 of the reasons, that's one of the things that distinguishes 1271 01:12:21.359 --> 01:12:24.460 them from Marx. I mean, obviously his ideological sympathies and 1272 01:12:24.500 --> 01:12:27.659 his aesthetic tendencies were totally at odds with Marxism. But, 1273 01:12:27.819 --> 01:12:29.760 you know, like we talked about before, you know, Marx 1274 01:12:29.800 --> 01:12:34.020 had these pretensions, Marx and Engels both in equal measure, 1275 01:12:34.039 --> 01:12:36.729 they had these pretensions to science, you know, or this 1276 01:12:36.779 --> 01:12:40.489 idea that, you know, they were, they were, uh, they 1277 01:12:40.510 --> 01:12:43.369 were positing theories of economics, and nothing of the sort 1278 01:12:43.390 --> 01:12:43.989 was underway. 1279 01:12:44.010 --> 01:12:47.850 That's not my own conceptual bias. There is no Marxist economics. 1280 01:12:48.270 --> 01:12:58.329 There's a Marxist sociology, and it posits values and observations 1281 01:12:58.430 --> 01:13:02.489 about the human condition, and obviously that's something they're fundamentally 1282 01:13:02.529 --> 01:13:05.380 concerned with, particularly man and his relationship to his own labor, 1283 01:13:05.859 --> 01:13:08.739 but that's not a theory of economics. you know, it's 1284 01:13:08.880 --> 01:13:14.770 a kind of political sociology that places a premium on 1285 01:13:14.819 --> 01:13:20.810 man as an economic actor, both separately and collectively, as 1286 01:13:20.829 --> 01:13:26.090 kind of like his primary kind of function historically as 1287 01:13:26.130 --> 01:13:32.500 well as anthropologically. But that's not economic science, okay? But Sorrell, 1288 01:13:32.859 --> 01:13:37.710 I mean, Sorrell is very clear about that he was 1289 01:13:38.380 --> 01:13:39.760 dealing in pure political theory. 1290 01:13:40.420 --> 01:13:43.319 Okay. He was talking about value creation. 1291 01:13:43.340 --> 01:13:47.859 He was talking about what animates people, you know, to 1292 01:13:49.300 --> 01:13:54.640 create political cultures and, you know, and to live historically, 1293 01:13:55.260 --> 01:13:59.550 you know, and, you know, fundamentally consider the questions of 1294 01:13:59.590 --> 01:14:04.619 identity with aesthetic, with value judgments, you know, kind of 1295 01:14:05.460 --> 01:14:11.510 rendered by aesthetical tendencies, you know, the things, you know, 1296 01:14:11.630 --> 01:14:16.250 kind of the distilled down essence of human values, you know, 1297 01:14:16.270 --> 01:14:18.810 things like heroism and, like, what is heroism in the 1298 01:14:18.869 --> 01:14:19.670 political realm and. 1299 01:14:19.630 --> 01:14:20.149 Things like that. 1300 01:14:20.170 --> 01:14:24.329 You know, that's why the seminal text of Sorrel, if 1301 01:14:24.350 --> 01:14:26.739 you want to understand this point I'm trying to make, 1302 01:14:27.539 --> 01:14:29.970 and forgive me if I'm being a bit scared or shut, As, 1303 01:14:29.989 --> 01:14:32.890 you know, Sorrel's essay on the trial of Socrates and 1304 01:14:32.930 --> 01:14:37.720 why Socrates not only deserved to be executed in absolute 1305 01:14:37.760 --> 01:14:40.899 moral terms, but he was imperative in political terms because 1306 01:14:40.920 --> 01:14:47.310 people like Socrates had brought horrible damage to Athens, you know, 1307 01:14:47.590 --> 01:14:48.470 and really kind. 1308 01:14:48.409 --> 01:14:51.229 Of destroyed the legacy of Pericles, as it were. And 1309 01:14:51.270 --> 01:15:00.020 that's why Sorrel's favorite pre-Socratic thinker is Xenophon. I mean, 1310 01:15:00.039 --> 01:15:01.279 that's a really complicated issue. 1311 01:15:01.319 --> 01:15:03.800 And I'm not a guy who's an expert in the classics, 1312 01:15:03.859 --> 01:15:09.600 but that, you know, that that's fundamentally important. I mean, 1313 01:15:09.619 --> 01:15:12.159 just for our purposes, what we're talking about here, it's, 1314 01:15:12.380 --> 01:15:15.859 it's Prima, it's Prima Fisher evidence that Sorrell did not 1315 01:15:16.020 --> 01:15:19.229 pretend that he was, you know, that he was, that 1316 01:15:19.250 --> 01:15:21.989 he was presenting some like new science of economics. And 1317 01:15:22.010 --> 01:15:24.750 he was not pretending that, you know, he, he was 1318 01:15:24.770 --> 01:15:27.270 like the heir to some kind of rationalist socialism theory. 1319 01:15:27.829 --> 01:15:30.909 That was

an improvement upon Marx or something. 1320 01:15:31.210 --> 01:15:35.250 He was in a very real sense philosophizing with a hammer. 1321 01:15:36.729 --> 01:15:41.409 And frankly, he was concerned with a lot of the 1322 01:15:41.449 --> 01:15:45.189 same phenomenon that Nietzsche was, but he was far more 1323 01:15:45.220 --> 01:15:50.239 of a practical political theorist about it. And he was 1324 01:15:50.279 --> 01:15:54.819 driving different conclusions that had superficially sort of similar. 1325 01:15:56.020 --> 01:15:56.439 Futures. 1326 01:15:56.979 --> 01:15:57.680 If that makes sense. 1327 01:15:57.800 --> 01:16:01.380 But I draw the distinction, or I make the comparison 1328 01:16:01.420 --> 01:16:06.479 not accidentally or not because I'm trying to be funny, 1329 01:16:06.539 --> 01:16:09.680 but like the other day online, I was bombarded with 1330 01:16:09.699 --> 01:16:11.779 people who were mad at me because they thought that 1331 01:16:11.819 --> 01:16:16.640 I was putting shade on their kind of Nietzschean sensibilities. 1332 01:16:16.680 --> 01:16:19.899 And that's not really what I was doing. But people 1333 01:16:19.920 --> 01:16:22.949 like us, People can read whatever they want, okay? And 1334 01:16:23.130 --> 01:16:26.609 I'm not like the grand librarian of philosophy or something. 1335 01:16:26.630 --> 01:16:31.289 I'm just kind of the authority that tells people, like, hey, man, 1336 01:16:31.310 --> 01:16:32.850 you should read this, but not that. 1337 01:16:33.810 --> 01:16:35.569 But, you know, when. 1338 01:16:35.489 --> 01:16:37.970 People do approach me and say they're interested in understanding, 1339 01:16:37.989 --> 01:16:40.409 you know, the 20th century, and they tell me that 1340 01:16:40.430 --> 01:16:44.680 they're interested in understanding, you know, or instead of developing 1341 01:16:44.699 --> 01:16:48.470 kind of like a practical paradigm of political action, you know, 1342 01:16:48.689 --> 01:16:50.829 you should be reading stuff like Sorrel a lot more 1343 01:16:50.850 --> 01:16:54.250 than you should be, you know, sitting around reading, you know, 1344 01:16:54.430 --> 01:16:58.449 you know, genealogy and morals and things like that. Um, 1345 01:16:59.250 --> 01:17:02.449 but they, you know, I, and I try and steer people. 1346 01:17:02.470 --> 01:17:04.090 I mean, even, even if people are just kind of 1347 01:17:04.109 --> 01:17:06.149 like guiding the wall intellectuals, I mean, that's great. 1348 01:17:06.310 --> 01:17:06.640 Okay. 1349 01:17:06.680 --> 01:17:09.060 I mean, there's nothing at all wrong with it. As 1350 01:17:09.100 --> 01:17:12.600 long as it's tempered by a kind of pragmatic grounding 1351 01:17:12.619 --> 01:17:16.199 in the world. Um, and it's not some kind of, 1352 01:17:16.199 --> 01:17:19.369 you know, it's not some kind of psychological coping mechanism 1353 01:17:20.010 --> 01:17:25.850 of retreat, but the, uh, if, um, if, uh, the, 1354 01:17:26.090 --> 01:17:27.989 one of

the things that people that cause people to 1355 01:17:28.029 --> 01:17:31.380 gravitate towards thinkers like Nietzsche and to some degree Heidegger, 1356 01:17:31.520 --> 01:17:34.750 although they were very different is, uh, you know, there was, 1357 01:17:34.760 --> 01:17:38.399 there was, there was a real historical crisis that, that 1358 01:17:38.460 --> 01:17:42.640 reaches Zenith, you know, in, in, uh, in, in, in 1359 01:17:42.739 --> 01:17:47.390 late modernity. Um, you know, the mid, Really, the mid-19th 1360 01:17:47.430 --> 01:17:52.930 century is when it started to impact regular people's individual lives. Obviously, 1361 01:17:52.989 --> 01:17:56.199 it reached a horrible zenith in the 20th century. I 1362 01:17:56.239 --> 01:17:58.859 don't say that for the reasons what court historians do, obviously. 1363 01:18:00.579 --> 01:18:03.680 I derive that observation for radically different reasons. 1364 01:18:03.899 --> 01:18:06.819 This can't be denied. 1365 01:18:07.840 --> 01:18:11.029 I try and expand people's conceptual horizons and make them 1366 01:18:11.069 --> 01:18:14.699 see that Nietzsche was not the only and Nietzsche invoked 1367 01:18:14.760 --> 01:18:18.939 a very powerful language that really resonates with people, especially 1368 01:18:18.979 --> 01:18:20.220 younger guys, which is fine. 1369 01:18:21.260 --> 01:18:23.520 Young guys have great energy that we need. 1370 01:18:24.239 --> 01:18:28.970 But I try and help steer people to the fact 1371 01:18:29.010 --> 01:18:31.930 that Nietzsche was not the only thinker concerned with these things. 1372 01:18:32.390 --> 01:18:34.909 There was many others who were, and there was many 1373 01:18:34.930 --> 01:18:38.210 on the right who were, and there was many whose 1374 01:18:38.270 --> 01:18:45.890 ideas and philosophies held a far more kind of relevant, 1375 01:18:47.750 --> 01:18:49.869 practical relevance to, you know, the current dilemma. 1376 01:18:50.239 --> 01:18:51.859 And that's kind of where Sorrell comes in. 1377 01:18:51.899 --> 01:18:55.000 But I, he was, I look at Sorrell as a 1378 01:18:55.039 --> 01:18:59.909 pure political theorist and a, and a political sociologist writ large. 1379 01:19:00.270 --> 01:19:04.270 And he was fundamentally concerned with the economic, but, you know, that's, 1380 01:19:04.569 --> 01:19:07.949 everybody was, you know, like the zeitgeist you exist in 1381 01:19:08.010 --> 01:19:10.760 is like the zeitgeist you exist in. You know, you've 1382 01:19:10.800 --> 01:19:13.800 got to, whether you want to or not, you've got 1383 01:19:13.819 --> 01:19:18.630 to abide the epoch in which you're situated and the 1384 01:19:18.670 --> 01:19:24.010 kind of conceptual realities that are paramount. You know, and 1385 01:19:24.050 --> 01:19:26.130 zeitgeist is a real thing. You know, you don't have 1386 01:19:26.170 --> 01:19:28.489 to be a Hegelian, you don't have to believe in God, 1387 01:19:29.109 --> 01:19:31.739 but you can't deny that zeitgeist is a real thing. 1388 01:19:31.760 --> 01:19:33.279 I mean, maybe you. 1389 01:19:33.119 --> 01:19:35.199 Come at it as like, well, you know, it's just 1390 01:19:35.260 --> 01:19:38.020 kind of a, you know, it's just like a function 1391 01:19:38.060 --> 01:19:42.720 of mass psychology or whatever. or, you know, people, or, like, your, like, 1392 01:19:42.779 --> 01:19:47.720 epigenetic memory come, uh, basic structures of mind, it's like, okay, 1393 01:19:47.739 --> 01:19:51.409 it doesn't matter for our purposes, like, what causes zeitgeist 1394 01:19:51.449 --> 01:19:55.489 to emerge, but it is a real thing, you know, um, and, like, 1395 01:19:55.529 --> 01:20:00.270 what's possible politically is very much bounded, like, hemmed in 1396 01:20:00.289 --> 01:20:04.270 by those parameters, you know, um, that's why lately, uh, 1397 01:20:04.289 --> 01:20:09.590 I mean, my big project right now is, uh, is, is, is, uh, 1398 01:20:11.060 --> 01:20:14.140 you know, making progress on the Nuremberg book transcript. And 1399 01:20:14.159 --> 01:20:17.359 that's proceeding at pace. But I want to write about 1400 01:20:17.399 --> 01:20:23.010 the DDR and the radical German left post-1945 and things 1401 01:20:23.029 --> 01:20:26.069 like the Badr-Meinhof gang, you know, more globally known as 1402 01:20:26.090 --> 01:20:28.210 the Red Army Faction. You know, like a lot of 1403 01:20:28.229 --> 01:20:30.479 these people, and I realize this is a tangent, but 1404 01:20:30.520 --> 01:20:31.479 I'll bring it back. 1405 01:20:31.539 --> 01:20:33.180 I want to start with this. It's topical. 1406 01:20:34.140 --> 01:20:35.859 A lot of the people who were involved with that, 1407 01:20:36.939 --> 01:20:40.319 they weren't... first of all, like, virtually none of them 1408 01:20:40.359 --> 01:20:43.590 were racial minorities. Like, they were very much like German 1409 01:20:43.649 --> 01:20:46.689 boys and girls, okay? And they were attracted to this 1410 01:20:47.170 --> 01:20:50.850 really because that's what was possible within, you know, within 1411 01:20:50.869 --> 01:20:52.970 the conceptual parameters of the Cold War. 1412 01:20:53.550 --> 01:20:59.060 You know, and interestingly, Horst Mahler, who was, you know, 1413 01:20:59.100 --> 01:21:02.979 a self-identified... you. 1414 01:21:02.920 --> 01:21:06.640 Know, Stalinist radical who became a lawyer and he defended 1415 01:21:06.680 --> 01:21:11.670 a lot of the Bayer-Meinhof people in court. You know, he, 1416 01:21:11.800 --> 01:21:14.470 after the Berlin Wall came down, he joined the NPD 1417 01:21:14.970 --> 01:21:17.569 and he was actually arrested and imprisoned for, quote, Holocaust 1418 01:21:17.670 --> 01:21:20.229 denial and things. I mean, so he basically, and some 1419 01:21:20.250 --> 01:21:21.930 people were like, oh, what a cynic this man is. 1420 01:21:21.949 --> 01:21:23.850 I was like, no, I think that was always what 1421 01:21:23.869 --> 01:21:27.100 his sympathies were. But,

you know, he was a German 1422 01:21:27.140 --> 01:21:29.119 guy from the East who was, you know, born in 1423 01:21:29.159 --> 01:21:31.199 the 1940s. Like, what is he, like, what was he 1424 01:21:31.220 --> 01:21:33.140 going to do? Like, march around like horse and vessel? 1425 01:21:33.189 --> 01:21:35.869 Was he going to, you know, was he going to 1426 01:21:35.890 --> 01:21:37.729 try and organize, like, a march on Rome in 1960? 1427 01:21:37.729 --> 01:21:41.710 I mean, that's not, that's not the way the world was, 1428 01:21:42.210 --> 01:21:49.229 you know, and it's not just a matter of practical potentialities. 1429 01:21:49.649 --> 01:21:52.960 It's also, I mean, just what speaks to people, like, 1430 01:21:53.000 --> 01:21:58.579 what guys' potentialities within the political realm emerge, you know, 1431 01:21:58.640 --> 01:22:01.210 so I I want to write more about this, you know, 1432 01:22:01.250 --> 01:22:04.100 and there's also, um, and that's one of the reasons too, 1433 01:22:04.109 --> 01:22:06.350 like I'm interested in guys like Johan von Wiers. I mean, 1434 01:22:06.369 --> 01:22:10.750 I'm interested in Islam for, and its impact on the 1435 01:22:10.789 --> 01:22:14.550 political for all kinds of reasons. Um, but guys like 1436 01:22:14.590 --> 01:22:17.869 him and guys like Ahmed Huber, um, it was like 1437 01:22:17.890 --> 01:22:18.789 the same kind of thing. 1438 01:22:18.869 --> 01:22:19.229 Okay. 1439 01:22:19.250 --> 01:22:22.390 Like they were kind of unusual people and, you know, 1440 01:22:22.409 --> 01:22:27.739 kind of like Orientalist adventure types, um, But they very much, 1441 01:22:28.319 --> 01:22:30.850 I mean, I'm not going to claim to know, like, what, 1442 01:22:30.949 --> 01:22:33.529 I mean, I've never believed the Christian faith, okay? But 1443 01:22:34.130 --> 01:22:37.069 I can't, I can only speculate on, like, what motivates 1444 01:22:37.149 --> 01:22:40.170 people to convert to, like, what amounts to very alien religions. 1445 01:22:40.949 --> 01:22:43.720 I mean, for all I know, this was very genuine 1446 01:22:43.729 --> 01:22:48.420 in some kind of spiritual calling. But I also, there 1447 01:22:48.439 --> 01:22:50.779 was a negatively political aspect in the case of people 1448 01:22:50.800 --> 01:22:52.020 like Von Liers and Mahler. 1449 01:22:52.750 --> 01:22:54.149 And that owed to what I just said. 1450 01:22:54.189 --> 01:22:56.300 It owed to Zeitgeist and it owed to questions of, 1451 01:22:56.310 --> 01:23:00.090 you know, what, what, what is, uh, what, what is, 1452 01:23:00.890 --> 01:23:05.890 what is possible, um, you know, within, within the conceptual 1453 01:23:05.949 --> 01:23:08.810 parameters of the epic and how much we're situated. Um, 1454 01:23:08.930 --> 01:23:10.829 I know that was long winded, but it's, it's, it's 1455 01:23:10.850 --> 01:23:15.350 frankly a big question. Um, but yeah, that's, that's, that's, 1456 01:23:15.520 --> 01:23:17.739 that's not just how I characterize Sorrell. That's why I 1457 01:23:17.800 --> 01:23:22.239 believe he's, there's an enduring relevance there. Um, It's the 1458 01:23:22.260 --> 01:23:26.319 same for Werner Schombart. And if you want to, we'll 1459 01:23:26.340 --> 01:23:30.050 do an episode on Werner Schombart. He was kind of 1460 01:23:30.060 --> 01:23:33.250 like the other socialists to the right, and he was German, obviously. 1461 01:23:33.270 --> 01:23:37.810 And he wrote specific America and why socialism is not 1462 01:23:38.029 --> 01:23:44.390 resonant in America, which is fascinating and timely. But that's 1463 01:23:44.409 --> 01:23:48.029 my not-so-brief answer to the question as to how I'd 1464 01:23:48.069 --> 01:23:49.920 characterize Sorel or categorize him. 1465 01:23:52.300 --> 01:23:56.000 Okay i'm glad you brought up the zeitgeist because i 1466 01:23:56.119 --> 01:24:02.500 think that operating in the zeitgeist when your thought is 1467 01:24:03.880 --> 01:24:09.130 firmly planted within the zeitgeist you can make you either 1468 01:24:09.170 --> 01:24:14.050 make very realistic decisions or in my case in the 1469 01:24:14.130 --> 01:24:19.220 past you have very fanciful decisions and i'll i want 1470 01:24:19.239 --> 01:24:22.239 to read this passage right here and it's uh It 1471 01:24:22.300 --> 01:24:23.859 points to a lot of what I was talking about. 1472 01:24:24.510 --> 01:24:29.449 And this is in part three of the chapter, Prejudices 1473 01:24:29.529 --> 01:24:32.869 Against Violence. I just want to read this chapter. It says, 1474 01:24:34.569 --> 01:24:37.029 the army is the clearest and most tangible of all 1475 01:24:37.090 --> 01:24:40.350 possible manifestations of the state and the one which is 1476 01:24:40.449 --> 01:24:45.350 most firmly connected with its origins and traditions. Syndicalists do 1477 01:24:45.409 --> 01:24:48.390 not propose to reform the state as the men of 1478 01:24:48.409 --> 01:24:52.260 the 18th century did. They want to destroy it. Because 1479 01:24:52.319 --> 01:24:55.180 they wish to realize the idea of Marx's that the 1480 01:24:55.239 --> 01:24:59.000 socialist revolution ought not to culminate in the replacement of 1481 01:24:59.119 --> 01:25:03.489 one governing minority by another minority, the syndicalists outline their 1482 01:25:03.550 --> 01:25:06.489 doctrine still more clearly when they give it a more 1483 01:25:06.689 --> 01:25:13.020 ideological aspect and declare themselves anti-patriotic. Following the example of 1484 01:25:13.060 --> 01:25:17.130 the Communist Manifesto, he actually goes on to say, It 1485 01:25:17.189 --> 01:25:20.710 is impossible that there should be the slightest understanding between 1486 01:25:20.789 --> 01:25:25.560 syndicalists and official socialists on this question. The latter, of course, 1487 01:25:25.659 --> 01:25:30.100 talking about official socialists, speak of breaking up everything, but 1488 01:25:30.140 --> 01:25:34.859 they attack men in power rather

than power itself. They 1489 01:25:34.899 --> 01:25:38.409 hope to possess the state forces, and they are aware 1490 01:25:38.489 --> 01:25:41.430 that on the day when they control the government, they 1491 01:25:41.449 --> 01:25:44.189 will have need of an army. They will carry on 1492 01:25:44.270 --> 01:25:48.489 foreign politics. And consequently, they, in their turn, will have 1493 01:25:48.529 --> 01:25:52.590 to praise the feeling of devotion to the fatherland. The 1494 01:25:52.630 --> 01:25:57.970 reason I brought– I chose that passage is because it's 1495 01:25:58.010 --> 01:26:01.060 very easy. I know a lot of the people in 1496 01:26:01.100 --> 01:26:04.960 my orbit are anarchists. A lot of them call themselves 1497 01:26:05.079 --> 01:26:06.340 right-wing anarchists. 1498 01:26:07.079 --> 01:26:07.359 And it. 1499 01:26:09.279 --> 01:26:13.109 Seems to me that the reason– that anarchy can seem 1500 01:26:13.210 --> 01:26:17.090 very appealing to a lot of people is because they 1501 01:26:17.270 --> 01:26:22.909 don't see an answer in the zeitgeist for their morality, 1502 01:26:23.569 --> 01:26:27.550 what they believe. And another thing, something that I wrote 1503 01:26:27.750 --> 01:26:32.149 is it seems that moral superiority, when you have no 1504 01:26:32.260 --> 01:26:37.939 solution to present dilemmas, leads you to become somebody who 1505 01:26:38.760 --> 01:26:43.909 politics becomes all about morality because it's very easy to 1506 01:26:43.949 --> 01:26:47.869 win a political argument if you just say, well, all 1507 01:26:47.970 --> 01:26:53.909 war is immoral. All taxation is immoral. Everything is immoral. 1508 01:26:53.930 --> 01:27:02.060 There is no vision that you can see of overthrowing 1509 01:27:02.180 --> 01:27:08.500 what is in power now where it seems like these anarchists... 1510 01:27:08.890 --> 01:27:14.050 and I'm including my former self, are no different than 1511 01:27:14.069 --> 01:27:17.289 these syndicalists who just want to destroy everything and will 1512 01:27:17.369 --> 01:27:23.270 even resort to anti-patriotism and saying that it is possible 1513 01:27:23.310 --> 01:27:31.380 to destroy power when you're basically moralizing against the zeitgeist 1514 01:27:32.180 --> 01:27:32.840 that exists. 1515 01:27:33.739 --> 01:27:37.479 Well, yeah, and I think in America, there's a conceptual 1516 01:27:37.520 --> 01:27:41.439 problem here, too. The reason why, you know, the anarchists 1517 01:27:41.460 --> 01:27:46.550 who did crazy stuff, like attacking the Chicago Federal Building 1518 01:27:46.810 --> 01:27:50.869 and just, like, literally blowing it up, you know, and 1519 01:27:50.909 --> 01:27:54.569 these guys, like, Sacco and Manzetti, like, these Italian anarchists, 1520 01:27:54.609 --> 01:27:58.890 to your point, were very much, like, in bed with syndicalists, 1521 01:27:59.130 --> 01:28:04.609 you know, like, conceptually. In Europe, that had, that was 1522 01:28:04.630 --> 01:28:10.390 kind of, Anarchism had, within conceptual vocabulary of European socialism, 1523 01:28:10.510 --> 01:28:13.890 anarchism made sense, even if it was not a good idea. 1524 01:28:13.909 --> 01:28:19.840 In America, I think there are anarchists in America who actually, 1525 01:28:20.880 --> 01:28:26.939 I think they're, to your point, indulging in flights of fantasy, 1526 01:28:26.979 --> 01:28:33.310 but they do have a pretty deep understanding of the 1527 01:28:33.350 --> 01:28:37.520 source material. But I think most people in America gravitate 1528 01:28:37.539 --> 01:28:39.640 towards it. Like when they think of anarchism, they're not 1529 01:28:39.899 --> 01:28:43.579 really thinking of anarchism per se. They're thinking of kind 1530 01:28:43.600 --> 01:28:48.739 of like a Habesian ontology of, oh, well, naturally there's 1531 01:28:48.760 --> 01:28:52.640 no course of authority, you know, and all we need 1532 01:28:52.659 --> 01:28:54.640 to do is, you know, kind of overcome this tendency 1533 01:28:54.680 --> 01:28:58.420 to exploit others. And, you know, the state of nature 1534 01:28:58.500 --> 01:28:59.420 has no government. 1535 01:29:00.109 --> 01:29:01.270 Which is nonsense. 1536 01:29:02.020 --> 01:29:07.239 Um, and also too, um, if people kind of associate 1537 01:29:07.300 --> 01:29:11.439 all authority with like this, you know, new dealer, uh, 1538 01:29:11.720 --> 01:29:15.880 bureaucracy committed to social engineering and all kinds of, and 1539 01:29:16.939 --> 01:29:20.279 all kinds of, and all kinds of tyrannies, like prosaic 1540 01:29:20.319 --> 01:29:23.840 and profound, like screw with people's lives, you know, individually, 1541 01:29:23.880 --> 01:29:27.340 as well as collectively, culturally, socially, and everything else. 1542 01:29:27.970 --> 01:29:28.550 Like, it's not. 1543 01:29:28.829 --> 01:29:31.590 Some people develop this binary tendency. They don't realize that 1544 01:29:32.149 --> 01:29:36.869 there's various iterations of government. And, like, government, quad government, 1545 01:29:36.890 --> 01:29:41.180 doesn't just, like, equate to, you know, this, like, obsolete, like, 1546 01:29:41.260 --> 01:29:44.340 Cold War Leviathan that we're kind of stuck with in America. 1547 01:29:44.359 --> 01:29:47.000 You know, I. 1548 01:29:47.739 --> 01:29:50.539 Government's neither good or bad, like, on its face. You know, 1549 01:29:50.560 --> 01:29:52.659 I mean, it's... I'm always making the point to people that, 1550 01:29:53.420 --> 01:29:56.899 you know, because... like a lot of people know that I, 1551 01:29:57.319 --> 01:29:59.899 you know, I identify a lot with, you know, Confederate 1552 01:29:59.930 --> 01:30:04.109 heritage and stuff, um, you know, for, uh, for cultural 1553 01:30:04.170 --> 01:30:07.449 and theological and like racial reasons, but as well as, 1554 01:30:07.609 --> 01:30:09.689 you know, historical ones. And they're like, well, how can 1555 01:30:09.729 --> 01:30:12.770 you also like

admire the Prussian state? It's like, because 1556 01:30:12.789 --> 01:30:15.739 there's a commonality there in that, you know, the regime 1557 01:30:15.920 --> 01:30:19.359 that came into existence was appropriate for the people within 1558 01:30:19.819 --> 01:30:23.319 its dominion, as well as, you know, the political challenges that, 1559 01:30:24.210 --> 01:30:27.770 that were extant. You know, like the Prussian regime was 1560 01:30:27.829 --> 01:30:32.850 appropriate for Prussia. Like, you know, the Confederate yeomanry, you know, 1561 01:30:32.880 --> 01:30:36.979 which really were kind of like self-governing in a classical sense, 1562 01:30:37.020 --> 01:30:39.220 at least as much as that was possible, you know, 1563 01:30:39.439 --> 01:30:40.500 in the 19th century. 1564 01:30:40.520 --> 01:30:42.899 I mean, that was appropriate for them. You know, it's 1565 01:30:42.920 --> 01:30:43.439 not like there's. 1566 01:30:43.300 --> 01:30:46.619 Like one, like, it's not like there's like one modality 1567 01:30:46.659 --> 01:30:50.350 of government that is appropriate or is categorically wrong. I mean, 1568 01:30:50.449 --> 01:30:54.100 obviously there's some things, there's some there's some configurations of 1569 01:30:54.159 --> 01:30:56.659 government that are just absolutely, like, terrible, okay? 1570 01:30:56.680 --> 01:30:58.100 Like, unless you're some, like. 1571 01:30:58.159 --> 01:31:01.380 Weird internet guy, like, nobody would say that, like, you know, 1572 01:31:01.439 --> 01:31:07.439 Democratic Campuchia, like, had, like, this great regime, you know, like, 1573 01:31:07.460 --> 01:31:11.319 or something, but, you know, the, yeah, people can't just 1574 01:31:11.359 --> 01:31:14.859 make these, like, categorically sweeping judgments. Like, the problem with 1575 01:31:14.899 --> 01:31:18.289 regimes like that in America and, like, that which has 1576 01:31:18.329 --> 01:31:22.510 been imposed on Western Europe is that it's, It's, I 1577 01:31:22.529 --> 01:31:24.560 compare it to, like, you know, like, the old Ray 1578 01:31:24.600 --> 01:31:27.739 Bradbury story, Fahrenheit 451. Like, when I was in high school, like, 1579 01:31:27.800 --> 01:31:28.899 people still, like, read that. 1580 01:31:28.920 --> 01:31:29.649 Like, they'd assign it. 1581 01:31:31.180 --> 01:31:35.000 And, you know, how, like, the fire department in Fahrenheit 451, 1582 01:31:35.000 --> 01:31:36.810 their guys would actually go out and start fires. 1583 01:31:36.819 --> 01:31:37.250 Like, the U.S. 1584 01:31:37.270 --> 01:31:40.210 Government is, like, a fire department that starts fires. Because, like, 1585 01:31:40.229 --> 01:31:42.670 it governmentally drives its legitimacy from the degree to which 1586 01:31:42.710 --> 01:31:46.289 it guarantees the posterity, like, of a people and their culture. 1587 01:31:47.210 --> 01:31:50.170 And if a government is quite literally working to annihilate 1588 01:31:50.210 --> 01:31:54.500 those things, I mean, it's

beyond like a dysfunctional government. 1589 01:31:54.600 --> 01:31:58.500 It's abjectly perverse. You know, it's at cross purposes with 1590 01:31:58.560 --> 01:32:01.500 the raison d'etre of a government. I mean, that's really 1591 01:32:01.520 --> 01:32:04.279 what brought down the Soviet system. You know, I mean, yeah, 1592 01:32:04.319 --> 01:32:09.529 there was the planned economy doesn't work. You know, you 1593 01:32:09.569 --> 01:32:13.670 can't abolish the incentive for creativity writ large. And they 1594 01:32:13.689 --> 01:32:17.609 just say, well, we're just going to plan all economic activity. 1595 01:32:17.630 --> 01:32:23.100 You can't plan spontaneous innovation. That's ridiculous. And obviously, it 1596 01:32:23.140 --> 01:32:28.439 didn't deliver anything of real value to people other than 1597 01:32:28.460 --> 01:32:33.899 some kind of basic security of a material nature in 1598 01:32:34.079 --> 01:32:38.939 every bare-bones sense. But that's not why it collapsed. There's 1599 01:32:39.180 --> 01:32:44.189 dysfunctional governments that just lurch on for centuries. the Ottoman Empire, 1600 01:32:44.890 --> 01:32:50.909 the Soviet regime fell because it was literally this perverse iteration. 1601 01:32:52.170 --> 01:32:54.590 Of a regime that was literally. 1602 01:32:54.449 --> 01:32:59.890 Cross-purposes with what should be the telos of government. One 1603 01:32:59.909 --> 01:33:03.560 of the things I agree with you, Michael Jones, on 1604 01:33:03.680 --> 01:33:06.979 is if you're literally proceeding against a reason, that's kind 1605 01:33:07.000 --> 01:33:12.750 of like your course set. you know, you're, like, anti-reason. Like, 1606 01:33:12.770 --> 01:33:16.050 that can't really sustain itself. And eventually people are going 1607 01:33:16.069 --> 01:33:19.789 to revolt against that. I mean, even if they don't understand, really, like, 1608 01:33:19.829 --> 01:33:23.100 what's wrong with the regime they're under, and, like, philosophical 1609 01:33:23.159 --> 01:33:25.760 or ethical or any kind of, you know, like, you know, 1610 01:33:29.000 --> 01:33:33.500 intellectual terms, just because it's going to, like, start, it's 1611 01:33:33.520 --> 01:33:35.619 going to start presenting obstacles to their ability to lead 1612 01:33:35.640 --> 01:33:38.279 a normal life, you know, and, like, do anything constructive. 1613 01:33:38.989 --> 01:33:41.449 You know, and that's kind of where we're at now. 1614 01:33:41.970 --> 01:33:43.510 But yeah, forgive me if that was long-winded. 1615 01:33:45.529 --> 01:33:51.090 Well, I think you had talked about how understanding the 1616 01:33:51.130 --> 01:33:56.039 zeitgeist is most important. So if you were to take 1617 01:33:56.300 --> 01:34:04.359 any lessons from Sorrel in repairing what we have here, okay? 1618 01:34:04.779 --> 01:34:04.920 So. 1619 01:34:05.819 --> 01:34:11.710 We don't have a history of communism here. We don't 1620 01:34:11.729 --> 01:34:14.930 have a history

of Roman Catholicism here. We have a 1621 01:34:15.090 --> 01:34:25.029 history of Protestant farmers, working men, who basically can have 1622 01:34:25.090 --> 01:34:30.369 a history of providing for themselves. So what is the answer? 1623 01:34:30.390 --> 01:34:30.909 It's like.... 1624 01:34:35.060 --> 01:34:38.109 A lot of the people I know, their answer is, well, 1625 01:34:38.409 --> 01:34:40.350 we just have to get rid of the state. As 1626 01:34:40.409 --> 01:34:43.369 we get rid of the state, then, you know, the, 1627 01:34:44.390 --> 01:34:48.050 we can institute good economics, quote, economics, of course, that 1628 01:34:48.069 --> 01:34:51.000 has never been tried. Um, they just assume that it's 1629 01:34:51.060 --> 01:34:55.079 going to be better. Um, you know, people will be 1630 01:34:55.140 --> 01:34:57.500 able to defend themselves. Well, if we just get rid 1631 01:34:57.520 --> 01:35:02.630 of gun laws, any gun law, then, you know, violence can, um, 1632 01:35:03.060 --> 01:35:05.659 take care of itself because you can, if somebody comes 1633 01:35:05.760 --> 01:35:08.899 at you now, you're, you can have a bigger gun 1634 01:35:08.939 --> 01:35:12.039 than them. I mean, not, not taking into account that 1635 01:35:12.060 --> 01:35:14.840 people just, we, people are large families just put together 1636 01:35:14.880 --> 01:35:19.340 their own armies, you know? And so what, when you 1637 01:35:20.479 --> 01:35:24.399 try to devise an answer to what we have now, 1638 01:35:24.859 --> 01:35:29.149 I don't think that going backwards in time is what's 1639 01:35:29.189 --> 01:35:30.689 going to solve it. We're going to, it's going to 1640 01:35:30.729 --> 01:35:34.560 be something new. but it's going to be something that 1641 01:35:34.649 --> 01:35:38.550 involves a government of some sort. And I think it's 1642 01:35:38.590 --> 01:35:41.289 going to, I would assume it's going to be something 1643 01:35:41.770 --> 01:35:46.489 that would be more of a right classic right wing government. 1644 01:35:47.210 --> 01:35:51.329 If we're going to hold any of this together, unless 1645 01:35:51.369 --> 01:35:53.710 of course it just breaks up and balkanizes. 1646 01:35:53.989 --> 01:35:56.510 Well, there are some, some of the problems that take 1647 01:35:56.529 --> 01:35:57.229 care of itself. 1648 01:35:58.710 --> 01:36:02.350 There's not even a Pollyanna or some kind of, or 1649 01:36:02.369 --> 01:36:04.149 some kind of uh i don't have some kind of 1650 01:36:04.180 --> 01:36:08.239 like eschatology of you know how the government's going to 1651 01:36:08.300 --> 01:36:12.640 all go down or something that but what's gonna hit 1652 01:36:12.680 --> 01:36:15.609 to my point about what i raised earlier about or 1653 01:36:15.630 --> 01:36:18.909 a minute ago rather about um you know not being 1654 01:36:18.930 --> 01:36:20.970 able to stay in a court that's literally at odds 1655 01:36:20.989 --> 01:36:23.649 with the reason i mean there's a

few things wrong 1656 01:36:23.680 --> 01:36:27.670 with the government okay um one of which is structural, 1657 01:36:27.710 --> 01:36:29.819 you know, like we've talked about, like regardless how you felt, 1658 01:36:29.880 --> 01:36:31.920 feel about like Roosevelt in history or the new deal 1659 01:36:31.960 --> 01:36:35.680 or whatever, um, like the regime as it exists today is, is, 1660 01:36:35.720 --> 01:36:38.000 it's an anachronism. It's as much of them as, as 1661 01:36:38.039 --> 01:36:40.489 the Soviet union was in like a charitable era. 1662 01:36:40.579 --> 01:36:40.899 Okay. 1663 01:36:40.920 --> 01:36:46.310 Because it's, it's, it's structured to do something that, that is, uh, 1664 01:36:46.789 --> 01:36:48.930 that there's no longer, uh, extent. 1665 01:36:49.569 --> 01:36:51.649 Okay. I mean, it's, it's, it's structured to wage the 1666 01:36:51.689 --> 01:36:54.069 cold war. Okay. And then that's about it. 1667 01:36:54.909 --> 01:36:58.300 Um, And literally everything else is subservient to that because 1668 01:36:58.500 --> 01:37:01.680 even regimes are totally dysfunctional, even those that are populated 1669 01:37:01.720 --> 01:37:07.239 by people who don't have any meaningful understanding of high 1670 01:37:07.279 --> 01:37:11.909 politics conceptually. They're, like, bound by basic realities, okay? Like, 1671 01:37:11.949 --> 01:37:13.829 going to the fact that, you know, their ability to 1672 01:37:13.930 --> 01:37:20.529 act is, like, hemmed in by critical disincentives to, you know, 1673 01:37:20.569 --> 01:37:26.369 to push up against that, okay? So everything is subservient 1674 01:37:26.390 --> 01:37:32.619 to high politics, okay, particularly when you have a strategic 1675 01:37:32.680 --> 01:37:36.779 landscape like that of the Cold War. So, I mean, 1676 01:37:38.020 --> 01:37:45.539 the regime, it's a, quote, solution in constant search of 1677 01:37:45.579 --> 01:37:49.159 a problem to rationalize its continued existence. 1678 01:37:49.680 --> 01:37:50.180 So there's that. 1679 01:37:50.939 --> 01:37:59.359 There's also, there's this radical faction that's, you know, really, really, 1680 01:37:59.600 --> 01:38:02.819 I mean, the New Deal was when. 1681 01:38:03.399 --> 01:38:05.399 It, was when it was able to. 1682 01:38:05.590 --> 01:38:12.029 Assert itself politically in truly kind of concrete, organized capacities. So, 1683 01:38:12.050 --> 01:38:14.270 I mean, for about a century, we've had this kind 1684 01:38:14.289 --> 01:38:25.760 of like lamprey wrapped around the structure of government. proverbially speaking, um, that's, uh, that's, uh, 1685 01:38:25.840 --> 01:38:30.479 that's actually trying to destroy the culture and, the ability 1686 01:38:30.680 --> 01:38:36.279 of the people who are within that culture to live 1687 01:38:36.300 --> 01:38:44.189 historically or to harbor any identities of a historical nature. 1688 01:38:44.430 --> 01:38:51.189 And that has to be excised. how it's going to 1689

01:38:51.210 --> 01:38:56.199 be excised, that depends on what develops, but the structural 1690 01:38:56.239 --> 01:39:00.640 problem I was talking about, about the obsolescence of the regime, 1691 01:39:01.079 --> 01:39:02.920 that's going to take care of itself, and not in 1692 01:39:02.939 --> 01:39:05.180 some punctuated way. There's not going to be some, like, 1693 01:39:05.220 --> 01:39:07.770 Mad Max scenario where everything blows up one day. It 1694 01:39:08.909 --> 01:39:12.529 might take 250 years or something. Okay, but gradually, it's 1695 01:39:12.550 --> 01:39:14.729 just not going to be able to assert itself anymore. 1696 01:39:15.229 --> 01:39:20.180 And you're going to see localities, you know, whether... whether 1697 01:39:21.039 --> 01:39:26.340 it's some mid-sized city in New Mexico, Arizona, that can't 1698 01:39:26.380 --> 01:39:30.399 rely on the federal government to provide it with the 1699 01:39:30.479 --> 01:39:34.489 water it needs and things like that and the infrastructural. 1700 01:39:36.409 --> 01:39:37.090 Things it needs. 1701 01:39:37.689 --> 01:39:42.050 So it's just going to have to find ways to 1702 01:39:42.090 --> 01:39:47.859 resort to self-help in Congress with other states and municipalities 1703 01:39:47.899 --> 01:39:52.430 that are similarly situated. or whether it's, you know, someplace, uh, 1704 01:39:52.590 --> 01:39:54.970 like Chicago where, you know, you take this, you know, 1705 01:39:54.989 --> 01:39:57.739 you take like the West side, that's like increasingly just 1706 01:39:57.779 --> 01:40:00.260 like kind of going to hell in a handbasket, you know, 1707 01:40:00.279 --> 01:40:02.720 like a police increasingly just kind of like, just don't 1708 01:40:02.779 --> 01:40:05.279 patrol anymore. You know, you're going to see more and 1709 01:40:05.300 --> 01:40:08.600 more situations like that where, um, you know, people in 1710 01:40:08.640 --> 01:40:11.979 true like ghettos, like, like live like parallel, not intersecting 1711 01:40:12.050 --> 01:40:13.710 lives with like bourgeois people. 1712 01:40:14.609 --> 01:40:17.810 Um, And they don't even really interfere with each other anymore. 1713 01:40:19.050 --> 01:40:22.729 And that's happening as we speak. I see it. It's 1714 01:40:22.770 --> 01:40:24.710 not some science fiction thing I came up with. 1715 01:40:25.840 --> 01:40:29.560 So things like that are kind of going to conspire 1716 01:40:29.579 --> 01:40:36.420 to deprive the regime of credibility in hard power terms. 1717 01:40:37.319 --> 01:40:40.310 And that will. 1718 01:40:40.970 --> 01:40:49.739 That'll... the radical culture distortion element within that regime, like 1719 01:40:50.079 --> 01:40:52.319 on account of these kinds of structural frailties that are 1720 01:40:52.340 --> 01:40:54.819 increasingly emergent, it won't be able to impose its will 1721 01:40:54.840 --> 01:40:56.760 on people anymore. You know, it's not going to be 1722 01:40:56.819 --> 01:40:59.600 able to

like insinuate crazy ideas to the Department of Education. 1723 01:40:59.640 --> 01:41:01.899 You know, it's not going to be able to, you know, 1724 01:41:01.979 --> 01:41:06.149 transform like what were, you know, basically functional with kind 1725 01:41:06.159 --> 01:41:08.689 of poor communities into like ghettos where like, you know, 1726 01:41:08.770 --> 01:41:10.949 race wars are going on. It's not going to be 1727 01:41:11.029 --> 01:41:14.960 able to, you know, it's not going to be able 1728 01:41:14.979 --> 01:41:19.840 to mobilize people, you know, to go and annihilate, you know, 1729 01:41:20.020 --> 01:41:23.560 other societies overseas that decides, you know, have to be destroyed. 1730 01:41:23.899 --> 01:41:26.420 And that's already happening, too. You know, that's why increasingly 1731 01:41:26.439 --> 01:41:31.789 there's this reliance on mercenaries and things like that. So 1732 01:41:32.949 --> 01:41:38.949 what will emerge from those proverbial ashes? I believe once 1733 01:41:38.970 --> 01:41:42.899 you strip away what I just talked about, And the 1734 01:41:42.939 --> 01:41:45.340 core of America, you know, kind of like the white 1735 01:41:45.439 --> 01:41:48.500 Christian core and those people who are, you know, who 1736 01:41:48.539 --> 01:41:55.529 perhaps aren't, you know, like us ethnically or don't like abide, 1737 01:41:55.550 --> 01:41:58.170 you know, the same sex that we do, but we're 1738 01:41:58.229 --> 01:42:00.550 like fellow travelers in terms of their ability to, you know, 1739 01:42:00.590 --> 01:42:05.109 create and sustain culture. That kind of core, I think 1740 01:42:05.130 --> 01:42:08.100 kind of like the core setting of America is like 1741 01:42:08.149 --> 01:42:09.479 Hamilton versus Jefferson. 1742 01:42:09.800 --> 01:42:11.020 And a lot of people object to that. 1743 01:42:11.529 --> 01:42:15.189 And that can be like oversimplified, but basically it's the 1744 01:42:15.270 --> 01:42:17.810 federalist versus an anti-federalist perspective. 1745 01:42:18.510 --> 01:42:18.909 Okay. 1746 01:42:19.250 --> 01:42:22.529 Um, and you're gonna see some states that, uh, tend 1747 01:42:22.569 --> 01:42:27.109 towards the former and some towards the latter. Um, and 1748 01:42:27.149 --> 01:42:31.689 that's going to cause tensions, but generally it's not in 1749 01:42:31.729 --> 01:42:34.989 anybody's interest, you know, to wage bloody civil wars. And 1750 01:42:35.029 --> 01:42:39.510 I think by necessity, particularly in America, it becomes poor. Um, 1751 01:42:40.579 --> 01:42:44.000 you know, kind of pragmatism is going to carry the day, 1752 01:42:44.659 --> 01:42:48.250 you know, but just in practical terms, you know, you're 1753 01:42:48.289 --> 01:42:51.390 not going to, you know, like 200 years from now, 1754 01:42:51.949 --> 01:42:53.529 you know, if you do have, you know. 1755 01:42:54.270 --> 01:42:57.630 The geographic division isn't going to be between, you know, like. 1756 01:42:57.510 --> 01:42:59.569 The old North and the old South, but there's going 1757 01:42:59.590 --> 01:43:02.069 to be some of the same kind of tendencies that, 1758 01:43:02.210 --> 01:43:07.090 you know, cause like a political and sociological clash between them, 1759 01:43:07.670 --> 01:43:10.420 but you're not, you're not going to have this regime 1760 01:43:10.479 --> 01:43:12.920 that's kind of got like endless, that's got kind of 1761 01:43:12.960 --> 01:43:16.500 like a, that's got bottomless pockets, you know, and the 1762 01:43:16.520 --> 01:43:20.560 ability to just kind of like, you know, marshal unprecedented 1763 01:43:20.619 --> 01:43:24.090 productive capabilities to like wage war and dominate, you know, 1764 01:43:24.170 --> 01:43:28.149 anybody you want, that's not going to exist anymore. You know, 1765 01:43:28.409 --> 01:43:33.720 aside from the fact that that's really kind of self-defeating 1766 01:43:33.960 --> 01:43:36.720 as a course to, you know, to unite the country 1767 01:43:36.760 --> 01:43:42.539 in some sort of, in some sort of a unitary 1768 01:43:42.579 --> 01:43:45.319 political culture or a single sovereign. I mean, that was 1769 01:43:45.359 --> 01:43:47.060 possible in the war between the states for kind of 1770 01:43:47.100 --> 01:43:53.590 complicated reasons, but it's also, um, you know, the, the 1771 01:43:53.609 --> 01:43:55.829 war between the states shouldn't have happened in the first place. 1772 01:43:56.069 --> 01:43:57.289 I mean, I don't want to, I don't want to 1773 01:43:57.310 --> 01:43:59.649 throw this into a civil war discussion, but it, my 1774 01:43:59.689 --> 01:44:01.270 point is like, I'm not, it's not, there's not some 1775 01:44:01.300 --> 01:44:05.760 like inevitability that, you know, absent these kinds of, uh, 1776 01:44:06.140 --> 01:44:10.810 alien elements that I, I just talked about, who are 1777 01:44:10.859 --> 01:44:14.770 literally attacking the body politic, and absent this kind of 1778 01:44:14.789 --> 01:44:18.210 obsolescent and very corrupt regime, you know, morally and materially, 1779 01:44:18.470 --> 01:44:20.149 that's kind of desperately trying to cling to power. I 1780 01:44:20.750 --> 01:44:22.640 don't see Americans just kind of like going to the 1781 01:44:22.720 --> 01:44:25.159 rifle to kill each other as a matter of first recourse. 1782 01:44:25.680 --> 01:44:29.439 You know, generally these things can be resolved. You know, it's... 1783 01:44:30.829 --> 01:44:33.569 I may be wrong, but I don't think I'm overly optimistic. 1784 01:44:33.590 --> 01:44:38.180 I mean, I am like a basically a gloomy angle 1785 01:44:38.220 --> 01:44:40.979 sex and Calvinist kind of dude. I don't think anybody 1786 01:44:41.029 --> 01:44:44.119 accused me of being some like optimist Pollyanna who says 1787 01:44:44.140 --> 01:44:45.640 everything's going to be all right all the time, but 1788 01:44:45.659 --> 01:44:49.220 I don't I don't agree with guys like Thomas Chittum 1789 01:44:49.939

--> 01:44:52.699 and he is a fascinating guy. He wrote some great 1790 01:44:52.720 --> 01:44:56.479 stuff in the 90s and his Civil War II paradigm. 1791 01:44:56.539 --> 01:44:58.659 He literally wrote a book called Civil War II. I'm 1792 01:44:58.680 --> 01:45:01.979 sure some of the fellows are familiar with. I mean, 1793 01:45:02.039 --> 01:45:04.000 I'm an old guy, so I'm familiar with that. I 1794 01:45:04.060 --> 01:45:07.729 read it when I was like 16. But the kind 1795 01:45:07.750 --> 01:45:10.369 of ethnic conflict he talks about, yeah, I don't doubt 1796 01:45:10.409 --> 01:45:12.069 that that's very possible. 1797 01:45:12.270 --> 01:45:18.100 And it's unfortunately in some places that's underway. Even Pierce 1798 01:45:18.149 --> 01:45:20.079 wrote Turner Diaries. 1799 01:45:20.960 --> 01:45:25.079 Pierce wrote the same. Everything... a lot of that talk 1800 01:45:25.220 --> 01:45:30.899 was in and around the militia movement of, you know, 1801 01:45:30.939 --> 01:45:34.539 the late eighties and nineties that Clinton declared war on. 1802 01:45:35.699 --> 01:45:35.960 Yeah. 1803 01:45:36.000 --> 01:45:38.640 And the, and the nineties were, the nineties were wild 1804 01:45:38.699 --> 01:45:41.779 times and, and mostly in good and bad ways, mostly 1805 01:45:41.840 --> 01:45:42.460 bad ways. 1806 01:45:42.520 --> 01:45:45.680 And yeah, that I do. I mean, don't get me wrong. 1807 01:45:45.739 --> 01:45:50.600 Like there's definitely, I can definitely see, you know, like, 1808 01:45:50.680 --> 01:45:52.640 like 80 years from now or whatever, uh, you know, 1809 01:45:52.659 --> 01:45:56.220 a place like Detroit or a place like West Side Chicago, 1810 01:45:56.479 --> 01:45:59.500 you know, basically some, like, gangster warlords, like, telling the cops, like, 1811 01:45:59.520 --> 01:46:01.880 you're not the law here, like, we're the law here, and, like, 1812 01:46:02.039 --> 01:46:05.510 what we say goes, and, you know, we're the lord, king, 1813 01:46:05.550 --> 01:46:08.189 and sovereign. And them being kind of like a periodic 1814 01:46:08.250 --> 01:46:11.529 war with, like, Blackwater types who, only to some interest 1815 01:46:11.569 --> 01:46:15.560 or another, you know, are being hired by, you know, 1816 01:46:15.949 --> 01:46:18.279 either wealthy private. 1817 01:46:18.000 --> 01:46:21.750 Agents or by remains of you know, the seat of 1818 01:46:21.789 --> 01:46:25.149 sovereign government in the state, and, like, and going to 1819 01:46:25.189 --> 01:46:27.619 war with these people in, like, localized ways or something, 1820 01:46:27.819 --> 01:46:31.500 where I can see, like, militia-type guys, you know, pulling, like, 1821 01:46:31.520 --> 01:46:34.340 what the Aryan nations did and saying, like, look, like, 1822 01:46:34.600 --> 01:46:37.000 we're seceding because, you know, we're, like, you know, we're, like, 1823 01:46:37.020 --> 01:46:39.489 the Aryan community of Christ, and if you're not white, 1824 01:46:39.510 -->

01:46:41.949 you're not right, and if you're a fed, you're fucking dead, so, like, 1825 01:46:41.970 --> 01:46:44.829 you're not gonna, you know, you're not gonna fuck with our, like, municipality, 1826 01:46:45.390 --> 01:46:48.289 and the government just being, like, well, we're not gonna, like, 1827 01:46:48.630 --> 01:46:50.289 we're not going to fight some, like, endless war with 1828 01:46:50.310 --> 01:46:52.090 these people, we're not going to kill them all, so it's, like, 1829 01:46:52.109 --> 01:46:55.250 leave them alone. Like, stuff like that, I definitely see happening. 1830 01:46:55.810 --> 01:46:59.630 I don't see, like, you know, I don't. 1831 01:46:59.239 --> 01:47:01.739 See, you know, like, 30 years from now, some kind 1832 01:47:01.760 --> 01:47:05.960 of uprising, some kind of simultaneous uprising, and kind of, like, 1833 01:47:05.979 --> 01:47:08.880 the white underclass against, you know, the regime, and, like, 1834 01:47:08.939 --> 01:47:12.020 blacks against the man, and, like, immigrants who, like, you know, 1835 01:47:12.039 --> 01:47:15.340 want to create, like, you know, Aslan and, like, the Southwest. 1836 01:47:15.359 --> 01:47:19.239 I just don't see that happening. It's not likely. And 1837 01:47:19.390 --> 01:47:23.869 Shitton was a dude born in the 40s who was supportive, experienced, 1838 01:47:24.090 --> 01:47:26.869 was in Vietnam. And, I mean, I totally get that. 1839 01:47:26.909 --> 01:47:29.069 And I got a lot of respect for dudes like that. 1840 01:47:30.510 --> 01:47:32.600 You know, and I mean, that's my dad's generation. You know, 1841 01:47:32.619 --> 01:47:36.180 and I got huge respect for my dad and all 1842 01:47:36.260 --> 01:47:38.979 of them guys. I'm not saying, like, they got stupid 1843 01:47:39.020 --> 01:47:42.180 ideas at all. What I'm saying is, like, their worldview is, like, 1844 01:47:42.199 --> 01:47:44.899 we're always colored by that. And I don't have a 1845 01:47:44.930 --> 01:47:47.229 crystal ball. I'm not some kind of, like, auger or whatever. 1846 01:47:47.819 --> 01:47:53.220 I do think I'm pretty good at kind of discerning basic, uh, 1847 01:47:53.380 --> 01:47:56.680 the basic trajectory of, of, of political events, you know, 1848 01:47:56.699 --> 01:47:58.060 like in every basic sense. 1849 01:47:58.239 --> 01:48:02.630 Okay. Um, I think that's why people read my content, uh, frankly, 1850 01:48:03.010 --> 01:48:04.689 you know, it's not, it's not because I'm a comedian 1851 01:48:04.710 --> 01:48:09.449 or because like, I'm a, because I'm a great novelist, but, um, 1852 01:48:10.130 --> 01:48:12.590 you know, I, and yeah, and plus too, I'll turn 1853 01:48:12.609 --> 01:48:14.210 it back to you in a minute. I'm sorry for rambling, 1854 01:48:14.250 --> 01:48:18.069 but the, You know, frankly, too, and I mean, I 1855 01:48:18.109 --> 01:48:21.060 recognize this cause it's my culture and I, I totally, 1856 01:48:21.880 --> 01:48:24.359 I've got a problem acknowledging it.

There's a tendency to 1857 01:48:24.439 --> 01:48:27.779 like a pot, not just eschatological, but like apocalyptic thinking 1858 01:48:27.800 --> 01:48:30.880 in America, you know, and there's this idea that there's 1859 01:48:30.920 --> 01:48:33.020 going to, there's always going to be a deluge and 1860 01:48:33.060 --> 01:48:36.770 it's going to be, there's going to be, uh, you know, um, 1861 01:48:37.369 --> 01:48:38.510 there's always going to be some, like. 1862 01:48:38.590 --> 01:48:41.529 Punctuated event that brings everything down. You know, there's going 1863 01:48:41.560 --> 01:48:43.460 to be, you know, some kind of, like, mass, some, like, 1864 01:48:43.500 --> 01:48:47.600 extinction-level event. Honestly, that's, like, what underlies the global warming bullshit. 1865 01:48:48.020 --> 01:48:50.819 It's, like, the weird old basic, kind of, like, it's 1866 01:48:51.039 --> 01:48:53.920 kind of, like, the loser basic bougie version of it. 1867 01:48:54.659 --> 01:48:56.720 But, I mean, that's why it's weird to hear, like, 1868 01:48:56.779 --> 01:48:59.010 Europeans parrot it, because it's not a European thing. 1869 01:48:59.029 --> 01:49:01.289 That's, like, America thing. You know, and. 1870 01:49:01.890 --> 01:49:05.229 But on our side, I mean, even intelligent guys and 1871 01:49:05.250 --> 01:49:07.720 some ladies... you know, who don't ascribe to that kind 1872 01:49:07.859 --> 01:49:10.159 of nonsense, or even kind of cognizant of the tendency 1873 01:49:10.199 --> 01:49:13.989 I talk about, like, anthropologically, they still, like, they've got 1874 01:49:14.010 --> 01:49:17.210 this kind of, like, instinctive tendency to think in terms of, like, 1875 01:49:17.310 --> 01:49:23.829 punctuated equilibrium in historical events and, like, apocalyptic stuff. Like, oh, 1876 01:49:23.850 --> 01:49:25.630 you know, just one day everything's going to come down, 1877 01:49:25.649 --> 01:49:27.739 or there's going to be a race war, or, like, 1878 01:49:27.819 --> 01:49:30.119 infrastructure is just going to go belly up, and we're 1879 01:49:30.140 --> 01:49:32.199 not going to have clean water. Like, that's not going 1880 01:49:32.220 --> 01:49:34.760 to happen. You know, it's going to be a death 1881 01:49:34.779 --> 01:49:37.689 by a thousand cuts. And it's going to be, like, 1882 01:49:37.949 --> 01:49:40.350 it's going to be a couple hundred years. Like, America's 1883 01:49:40.369 --> 01:49:42.189 going to exist in some form or another for a 1884 01:49:42.189 --> 01:49:46.329 couple hundred years yet. You know, even if it's just, like, 1885 01:49:46.550 --> 01:49:49.100 even if 200 years now, it's just, like, in name only, 1886 01:49:49.109 --> 01:49:50.479 kind of like the last days of the Holy Roman 1887 01:49:50.500 --> 01:49:53.539 Empire or something. But it's going to, like, exist in 1888 01:49:53.600 --> 01:49:55.619 some sense. And there's going to be a guy who's 1889 01:49:55.659 --> 01:49:58.100 identified as President of

the United States. Like, what kind 1890 01:49:58.119 --> 01:50:00.340 of clout he has, what kind of ability he has to, 1891 01:50:00.359 --> 01:50:05.319 you know, raise an army. I mean, that's a different question, 1892 01:50:05.390 --> 01:50:09.949 but I firmly believe that. But yeah, go ahead. 1893 01:50:09.970 --> 01:50:12.289 I'm sorry. I didn't mean to monopolize the conversation. 1894 01:50:13.630 --> 01:50:15.909 I want everyone to know that this ad break is 1895 01:50:16.010 --> 01:50:19.289 personal to me because soon as I found out about CrowdHealth, 1896 01:50:19.689 --> 01:50:23.489 I became a member. We know the insurance model's broken. 1897 01:50:23.949 --> 01:50:28.539 With CrowdHealth, you can see any doctor you want, no deductibles, exclusions, 1898 01:50:28.880 --> 01:50:31.659 or co-pays. 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Now we 1912 01:51:27.350 --> 01:51:30.489 can start an argument on when the when the Roman 1913 01:51:30.550 --> 01:51:31.670 Empire started to fall. 1914 01:51:31.689 --> 01:51:35.310 I mean, some. 1915 01:51:34.029 --> 01:51:38.340 People will say, you know, with Caesar and somebody, you know, 1916 01:51:38.529 --> 01:51:41.079 with the first Caesar, but okay, well, here's something I 1917 01:51:41.119 --> 01:51:46.539 wanted to bring up. So this book actually talks about violence. 1918 01:51:46.579 --> 01:51:50.279 It has violence in the, in the, the title. 1919 01:51:50.819 --> 01:51:51.079 Yeah. 1920 01:51:51.140 --> 01:51:53.689 But he also, he also talks about social change. He 1921 01:51:53.729 --> 01:51:56.989 also talks about political change. And from everything you've just 1922 01:51:57.069 --> 01:52:00.220 said is that, the change that would happen in our 1923 01:52:00.279 --> 01:52:04.460 culture where we were born, where, you know, where we are, 1924 01:52:04.479 --> 01:52:07.460 I don't think any of us are, most of us 1925 01:52:07.520 --> 01:52:10.010 aren't planning on going anywhere else is going to be 1926 01:52:10.090 --> 01:52:15.390 social and is going to be political because that's where. 1927 01:52:16.649 --> 01:52:16.930 Sure. 1928 01:52:17.810 --> 01:52:19.710 If you go back to the war between the States, 1929 01:52:19.729 --> 01:52:23.029 the war of Northern aggression, then you can talk about 1930 01:52:23.069 --> 01:52:25.260 violence and you can talk about an invasion of a 1931 01:52:25.300 --> 01:52:29.430 foreign land. But really what started to bring down what 1932 01:52:29.470 --> 01:52:34.329 we have now was social and political. And it was 1933 01:52:35.229 --> 01:52:41.229 by– you mentioned the term culture distortion invoking Yaki and 1934 01:52:41.270 --> 01:52:46.310 invoking Spengler. That's what has to be won back. And 1935 01:52:46.329 --> 01:52:49.470 I really think– and people are probably sick of hearing 1936 01:52:49.510 --> 01:52:51.850 me say this over and over again– that that's going 1937 01:52:51.869 --> 01:52:55.039 to have to start. at the most local level and 1938 01:52:55.340 --> 01:52:58.539 probably the most local level is in the home and 1939 01:52:58.560 --> 01:53:01.659 then spreading out to community and going forward like that, 1940 01:53:01.880 --> 01:53:02.239 like that. 1941 01:53:02.340 --> 01:53:03.779 Oh yeah. Yeah, definitely. 1942 01:53:03.840 --> 01:53:05.500 And that's one of the things, I mean, that's a 1943 01:53:05.520 --> 01:53:08.439 cerulean point too. You know, one of the things, one 1944 01:53:08.470 --> 01:53:10.489 of the reasons he was hung up on Xenophon and 1945 01:53:10.510 --> 01:53:12.670 one of the reasons why, you know, he talked about, 1946 01:53:12.689 --> 01:53:14.949 you know, the home being kind of like the school 1947 01:53:14.989 --> 01:53:18.170 of command, you know, where, where like the patriarch, you know, 1948 01:53:18.210 --> 01:53:20.500 learns how to, you know, how to, how to rule 1949 01:53:20.539 --> 01:53:23.199 over his wife and children in a firm way, but 1950 01:53:23.220 --> 01:53:26.340 in an equitable way, you know, that's, that's how, that's 1951 01:53:26.359 --> 01:53:28.439 where women learn, you know, how to like, how to 1952 01:53:28.460 --> 01:53:30.479 like relate to men and stuff and like hold down 1953 01:53:30.500 --> 01:53:32.920 the household and women do that, you know, believe that, 1954 01:53:33.079 --> 01:53:35.420 you know, it's not some conceit that's very true. So 1955 01:53:35.800 --> 01:53:38.189 I don't like people being down on females. That's where 1956 01:53:38.270 --> 01:53:41.409 kids like learn, you know, how, how, how to grow 1957 01:53:41.449 --> 01:53:45.329 up into adult men and women, you know, and, uh, and, and, um, 1958 01:53:46.170 --> 01:53:47.930 you know, and,

and, and the nature of like, what, 1959 01:53:48.029 --> 01:53:50.229 you know, what is just in the parameters of obedience, 1960 01:53:50.510 --> 01:53:53.710 like within, within, you know, within that kind of justice 1961 01:53:53.770 --> 01:53:59.760 paradigm of command and obedience. Um, and that's why, you know, uh, 1962 01:53:59.819 --> 01:54:03.439 this kind of concrete engagement with, uh, with what we 1963 01:54:03.460 --> 01:54:04.880 consider the body politic. 1964 01:54:05.319 --> 01:54:06.640 I mean, it's through Alzheimer now. 1965 01:54:06.659 --> 01:54:10.899 I mean, uh, as the body politic in Athens consisted of, 1966 01:54:11.300 --> 01:54:14.850 of like every like household, you know, and, uh, some 1967 01:54:14.880 --> 01:54:16.270 of these men were rich and some of them were 1968 01:54:16.310 --> 01:54:18.300 not so rich, but, you know, they all went to 1969 01:54:18.359 --> 01:54:21.819 war together. They all tilled the soil together. You know, 1970 01:54:22.079 --> 01:54:25.399 they all participated in the assembly together. Like this idea of, 1971 01:54:25.420 --> 01:54:32.220 you know, hyper-specialization and dividing people into, you know, basically 1972 01:54:32.260 --> 01:54:36.939 needlessly dividing people's functions within the same kind of caste, 1973 01:54:37.859 --> 01:54:41.460 that's a recipe for self-destruction among other things. 1974 01:54:41.939 --> 01:54:42.819 Because that's Terrell's point. 1975 01:54:42.840 --> 01:54:44.920 It's like, well, then you have this basically parasitic cast 1976 01:54:44.979 --> 01:54:49.119 of politicians who, even if they themselves aren't wealthy by birth, 1977 01:54:50.659 --> 01:54:53.779 they basically become like the clients of wealthy patrons. And 1978 01:54:53.819 --> 01:54:56.390 aside from everything else that's wrong with it, these guys 1979 01:54:56.449 --> 01:54:57.090 don't work. 1980 01:54:57.109 --> 01:54:57.970 They don't do anything. 1981 01:54:57.989 --> 01:55:01.890 They're like this weird, leisured class that by nature is 1982 01:55:01.909 --> 01:55:05.489 kind of decadent, that develops resentments of the yeomanry and 1983 01:55:05.529 --> 01:55:09.229 vice versa. And in turn, they're dependent upon these kinds 1984 01:55:09.270 --> 01:55:15.899 of intellectuals and financiers who in Sorrel's view are in 1985 01:55:15.970 --> 01:55:24.710 bed together proverbially. These guys view themselves as they've got 1986 01:55:24.729 --> 01:55:27.810 their own resentment and fear of the Yale men or 1987 01:55:27.829 --> 01:55:31.939 the proletariat in Sorrel's epoch, but they themselves are as 1988 01:55:32.000 --> 01:55:37.340 parasitic as the political caste and just as prone to 1989 01:55:37.399 --> 01:55:47.020 intrigues because their situation is always tenuous. because by definition 1990 01:55:47.029 --> 01:55:48.560 they're parasitic. 1991 01:55:49.100 --> 01:55:52.840 They rely upon the willingness of. 1992 01:55:54.279 --> 01:55:57.520 The two other factions they just identified to not just 1993 01:55:57.560 --> 01:56:00.500 tolerate them, but to sustain them. And everything else aside, 1994 01:56:00.539 --> 01:56:03.720 even if you had a totally homogenous population, even if 1995 01:56:03.819 --> 01:56:06.579 at least nominally there was some kind of common culture 1996 01:56:06.600 --> 01:56:09.819 and common religion, like certain religion and ethics in common, 1997 01:56:10.500 --> 01:56:13.140 that still create all kinds of weird pathologies and it 1998 01:56:13.359 --> 01:56:19.039 would institutionalize social divisions in ways that not just are 1999 01:56:19.100 --> 01:56:23.279 counterproductive to a virtuous society, but just in practical terms, 2000 01:56:24.050 --> 01:56:28.029 you don't institutionalize social divisions for its own sake because 2001 01:56:28.050 --> 01:56:30.970 some kind of endless conversation and endless argument and endless 2002 01:56:30.989 --> 01:56:34.170 contention is some marvelous thing from which we all benefit. 2003 01:56:34.729 --> 01:56:38.430 That was Carl Schmitt's point about parliamentarism and why it's dysfunctional. 2004 01:56:38.899 --> 01:56:43.460 Like on its face, there's something very ethological about it. 2005 01:56:44.079 --> 01:56:48.189 I don't mean to insinuate these kinds of psychological terms 2006 01:56:48.239 --> 01:56:50.949 into the discussion, but I can't think of a better 2007 01:56:50.989 --> 01:56:59.409 way to describe it. Because it's a maladaptive conceit of 2008 01:56:59.449 --> 01:57:03.109 human minds that crave these things. It's not like practical... 2009 01:57:03.430 --> 01:57:05.470 It's not things that exist in, like, you know, in 2010 01:57:05.489 --> 01:57:07.649 kind of political reality that we just come upon and 2011 01:57:07.689 --> 01:57:10.270 have to, like, address. These things are very much cultivated 2012 01:57:10.390 --> 01:57:13.350 and created. And it's very artificial. You know, I mean, 2013 01:57:13.369 --> 01:57:20.840 you see this today. I mean, even, you know, like, 2014 01:57:20.920 --> 01:57:24.119 even if you took away the culture distortion aspect, like, 2015 01:57:24.159 --> 01:57:27.979 look at, like, this infotainment garbage. Its job, basically, is 2016 01:57:28.000 --> 01:57:31.180 to kind of, like, is to manufacture, like, wedge issues 2017 01:57:31.199 --> 01:57:34.590 into it's like make people upset about, you know, like 2018 01:57:34.609 --> 01:57:37.449 this isn't stuff that's like emergent within people, when people's 2019 01:57:37.550 --> 01:57:40.850 actual lives, or if this isn't stuff that, you know, 2020 01:57:40.890 --> 01:57:44.409 people would, uh, people would identify as, as, as being 2021 01:57:44.449 --> 01:57:47.090 something that, you know, warning their attention and some like 2022 01:57:47.609 --> 01:57:51.899 ontological capacity. It's like literally just like confabulated, you know, 2023 01:57:51.920 --> 01:57:55.239 because people are like, uh, you know,

even in the 2024 01:57:55.260 --> 01:57:58.029 best of times, you know, like common people are, are, 2025 01:57:58.699 --> 01:58:00.399 you know, deal with a lot of uncertainty and like 2026 01:58:00.439 --> 01:58:06.689 anxiety and, derived therein, you know, that's kind of formless, 2027 01:58:06.850 --> 01:58:09.529 you know, it's kind of human condition, you know, when 2028 01:58:09.750 --> 01:58:12.960 there plugged into, figuratively and literally, like, plugged into some 2029 01:58:13.000 --> 01:58:16.640 kind of media organ 24-7, you know, one of the 2030 01:58:16.659 --> 01:58:20.279 things that satisfies or one of, like, the needs it fulfills, like, 2031 01:58:20.420 --> 01:58:23.659 psychologically to help them cope with things is, like, giving 2032 01:58:23.800 --> 01:58:29.130 form to these kinds of amorphous, like, negative feelings and anxieties. 2033 01:58:29.189 --> 01:58:29.630 And so. 2034 01:58:30.220 --> 01:58:33.199 it's kind of like a, these people are kind of 2035 01:58:33.220 --> 01:58:37.010 like perfectly situated to be, you know, like manipulated by 2036 01:58:38.210 --> 01:58:42.310 a sort of idle, like parasite political cast whose only 2037 01:58:42.350 --> 01:58:44.770 real role is to kind of, is to kind of 2038 01:58:44.810 --> 01:58:51.010 create like, you know, institutionalized grievance structures, if that makes 2039 01:58:51.050 --> 01:58:53.869 any sense. And I mean, yeah, obviously high tech and like, 2040 01:58:53.949 --> 01:58:57.520 you know, media like changes all that. I mean, even, like, radio, 2041 01:58:57.560 --> 01:59:00.479 even before TV, like, visual media was a huge game changer. 2042 01:59:01.899 --> 01:59:03.979 But even, like, radio, like, the ability to just. 2043 01:59:04.000 --> 01:59:07.350 Like, literally be able to broadcast in any capacity, like, 2044 01:59:07.430 --> 01:59:11.289 coast to coast, or, like, across the European continent, you know, from, like, 2045 01:59:11.350 --> 01:59:14.430 Paris to, like, Prague, like, that was a game changer, 2046 01:59:15.069 --> 01:59:16.090 you know, for the reasons. 2047 01:59:15.949 --> 01:59:16.630 I just stated. 2048 01:59:16.710 --> 01:59:24.489 And that's one of the reasons why, I mean, people ask, like, 2049 01:59:24.550 --> 01:59:27.770 why why, why it's kind of like faux democracy or 2050 01:59:27.789 --> 01:59:31.359 just kind of like institutionalized, uh, or just kind of 2051 01:59:31.380 --> 01:59:38.180 like institutionalized grievance, uh, structure. I just identified like why, why, 2052 01:59:38.239 --> 01:59:41.539 why it seems to like axiomatically coexist with, you know, 2053 01:59:41.560 --> 01:59:43.239 like the modern, like managerial state. 2054 01:59:43.590 --> 01:59:45.029 Well, I mean, the answer is media. 2055 01:59:45.329 --> 01:59:47.159 I mean, I don't mean to sound reductionist, but I, 2056 01:59:47.449 --> 01:59:49.909 I think I've, I think I've invoked the quote before 2057 01:59:49.949 --> 01:59:50.989 from natural born killers. 2058 01:59:51.310 --> 01:59:53.710 I really like natural born killers. It's a really dope movie. 2059 01:59:54.470 --> 01:59:57.229 Um, And I try and turn people on to it 2060 01:59:57.250 --> 02:00:01.750 because it's not just, like, gross Quentin Tarantino stuff or, like, 2061 02:00:01.989 --> 02:00:05.789 Oliver Stone, like, preachy stuff. It's really, really insightful, and 2062 02:00:06.350 --> 02:00:10.520 it's really subversive in some ways. But the guy who's, like, 2063 02:00:10.529 --> 02:00:15.840 the Starkweather, like, Dillinger character, you know, Woody Harrelson, when 2064 02:00:15.859 --> 02:00:17.720 he's talking to, like, the media guy, he's like, you know, 2065 02:00:17.819 --> 02:00:20.939 he's like, media's like the weather, but it's man-made weather. 2066 02:00:20.960 --> 02:00:23.859 It's this thing you're immersed in, and you don't even, like, 2067 02:00:23.899 --> 02:00:27.220 notice it. I find myself, like, not really noticing it. 2068 02:00:27.220 --> 02:00:30.890 I mean, I discern, like, what's on people's minds and 2069 02:00:30.899 --> 02:00:32.630 kind of, like, you know, like, with something like the 2070 02:00:32.729 --> 02:00:35.829 Floyd craziness, George Floyd craziness was jumping off. 2071 02:00:35.850 --> 02:00:37.729 I obviously, like, discern, like, this is what people are 2072 02:00:37.810 --> 02:00:38.449 thinking about. 2073 02:00:39.029 --> 02:00:41.390 But it's, like, I don't even, like, I don't even always, like, 2074 02:00:41.430 --> 02:00:44.329 detect immediately that, like, well, that's the narrative that's being 2075 02:00:44.369 --> 02:00:47.090 created by what, you know, the media they're immersed in 2076 02:00:47.569 --> 02:00:49.750 because they just, like, take it for granted. You know, 2077 02:00:49.810 --> 02:00:53.609 and it, uh, and speaking of zeitgeist, the, uh, you know, like, 2078 02:00:53.640 --> 02:00:57.270 the day-to-day, uh, like, the day-to-day fixations of people, like, 2079 02:00:57.310 --> 02:01:01.460 within that, like, broader paradigm, like, that comes 100% from media. 2080 02:01:01.699 --> 02:01:05.020 I mean, it plays upon, like, things, like, intrinsic to mind, 2081 02:01:05.659 --> 02:01:09.220 you know, like, symbolically and things related to impulse and 2082 02:01:09.279 --> 02:01:12.420 appetite and stuff and symbols that are kind of universally 2083 02:01:12.479 --> 02:01:15.399 resonant in, like, most basic terms. But in terms of, like, 2084 02:01:15.420 --> 02:01:17.819 the actual narrative and, like, the concrete particulars, like, of 2085 02:01:17.859 --> 02:01:20.500 those narratives and of, like, those symbols and, like, what 2086 02:01:20.539 --> 02:01:24.899 form they take, um... those totems rather like that's a 2087 02:01:24.920 --> 02:01:30.859 hundred percent created by, uh, by, um, by architects of media. 2088 02:01:30.899 --> 02:01:33.939 And I mean, that sounds conspiratorial to people, whatever. I mean, 2089 02:01:33.960 -->

02:01:35.710 I'm making a sociological observation. 2090 02:01:35.729 --> 02:01:39.729 It's not, it's not conspiratorial. 2091 02:01:39.909 --> 02:01:42.789 Um, yeah. Yeah. 2092 02:01:43.869 --> 02:01:47.329 This is part two, but when I released part one, 2093 02:01:47.899 --> 02:01:49.960 the next episode I did after that was me and 2094 02:01:50.000 --> 02:01:54.890 my friend Buck, reading The Engineering of Consent by Bernays. 2095 02:01:55.130 --> 02:02:00.699 And he wrote that in... Propaganda he wrote in 2021, 2096 02:02:00.699 --> 02:02:04.279 but he wrote this in 47, and he's already... Radio's 2097 02:02:04.319 --> 02:02:06.920 in every house. TVs are starting to go in every house. 2098 02:02:07.000 --> 02:02:10.399 And he basically says, news is what we say it is. 2099 02:02:11.359 --> 02:02:14.109 Yeah. So that's the.... 2100 02:02:15.130 --> 02:02:19.590 Go ahead, I'm sorry. Yeah, I was going to say... 2101 02:02:19.409 --> 02:02:27.260 200 years ago, you had 10-year-olds that could run a farm, 2102 02:02:28.590 --> 02:02:32.329 and you had a farm that people could survive on. 2103 02:02:32.409 --> 02:02:40.069 Then you have the Industrial Revolution, and now everyone is 2104 02:02:40.210 --> 02:02:44.529 just comfortable enough that they won't revolt. But they also 2105 02:02:44.670 --> 02:02:46.829 have this engineering– and I was going to bring this 2106 02:02:46.869 --> 02:02:49.590 back to what I was reading earlier– is when you 2107 02:02:49.630 --> 02:02:54.210 read about these syndicalists, how they want to destroy anything 2108 02:02:54.250 --> 02:02:58.439 that's anti-patriotic. Well, in the process of destroying anything that's anti-patriotic, 2109 02:02:59.199 --> 02:03:03.359 you have to destroy family. You have to destroy people's religion. 2110 02:03:04.060 --> 02:03:08.399 And that's exactly what the culture distorters that we've talked 2111 02:03:08.470 --> 02:03:12.369 about set out to do. And it's not a conspiracy theory. 2112 02:03:13.630 --> 02:03:18.210 Bernays wrote about propaganda. And that's why you have to have... 2113 02:03:18.569 --> 02:03:20.789 That's why the internet is the blessing and curse it 2114 02:03:20.890 --> 02:03:23.289 is because it puts out propaganda, but you can also 2115 02:03:23.770 --> 02:03:29.449 destroy that propaganda within minutes in real time. But you're 2116 02:03:29.609 --> 02:03:35.890 basically dealing with culture distorters who are like, okay, if 2117 02:03:36.010 --> 02:03:39.689 we are going to have the kind of power over 2118 02:03:40.149 --> 02:03:42.350 the people that we want, if we are going to 2119 02:03:42.390 --> 02:03:45.789 be the managers over these people, We have to do 2120 02:03:45.909 --> 02:03:48.449 everything we can to destroy this. And it seems like 2121 02:03:48.510 --> 02:03:54.029 that is something clearly out of the syndicalist, the communist playbook. 2122 02:03:54.470 --> 02:03:57.770 And even today, people that I know who are some 2123 02:03:57.810 --> 02:04:01.510 of the great, they believe they're fighting for freedom and 2124 02:04:01.630 --> 02:04:06.000 liberty for the individual, don't realize that they're basically on 2125 02:04:06.039 --> 02:04:09.439 the same side as the syndicalists who want to destroy 2126 02:04:09.739 --> 02:04:13.619 every bit of hierarchy. And as soon as you destroy hierarchy, 2127 02:04:14.020 --> 02:04:21.119 you are where we are now, you're in managerialism. 2128 02:04:22.199 --> 02:04:22.659 Well, yeah. 2129 02:04:22.699 --> 02:04:25.399 Like I said, the problem is that there's a counterfeit 2130 02:04:25.439 --> 02:04:30.609 hierarchy that is at cross-purposes with virtue and logos. 2131 02:04:30.689 --> 02:04:31.510 That's the problem. 2132 02:04:31.550 --> 02:04:36.430 The problem isn't that these distinctions exist in the first 2133 02:04:36.489 --> 02:04:40.250 place in structural terms. I mean, in legitimate ways and 2134 02:04:40.310 --> 02:04:42.689 organic ways that occur spontaneously. 2135 02:04:42.710 --> 02:04:45.670 There's also... The syndicalists who were. 2136 02:04:45.489 --> 02:04:48.630 On the right, and some of these guys, like a 2137 02:04:48.630 --> 02:04:50.609 lot of these guys that actually fought really hard in Spain, 2138 02:04:51.529 --> 02:04:53.899 on the right, I mean, you know, against the Reds. 2139 02:04:54.640 --> 02:05:01.800 And you found this with the Rom faction, too, you know, 2140 02:05:03.319 --> 02:05:09.850 in the Reich. There's a type of man who really 2141 02:05:10.029 --> 02:05:13.680 holds a communist in contempt of Not just for the 2142 02:05:14.119 --> 02:05:17.399 kind of more obvious reasons, but because communism really just 2143 02:05:17.439 --> 02:05:19.520 promises us kind of like telluric utopia. 2144 02:05:20.340 --> 02:05:25.420 And it doesn't just like rob kind of our living 2145 02:05:25.460 --> 02:05:26.539 environment and our. 2146 02:05:26.699 --> 02:05:31.180 Conceptual space of anything beautiful or edifying or cool, frankly, 2147 02:05:31.500 --> 02:05:35.840 if you'll forgive the kind of colloquialism. But it also, 2148 02:05:36.260 --> 02:05:38.340 at the end of the day, it's not really heroic 2149 02:05:38.359 --> 02:05:41.250 because it's just saying essentially that well, you know, technology 2150 02:05:41.270 --> 02:05:42.930 is going to usher in this kind of Garden of 2151 02:05:43.069 --> 02:05:47.390 Eden of, like, productive surplus. You know, we're all going 2152 02:05:47.409 --> 02:05:50.350 to have, like, all the cargo we want. And, you know, 2153 02:05:50.399 --> 02:05:52.000 we can, like, eat as much as we want and, like, 2154 02:05:52.039 --> 02:05:53.539 sit around as much as we want, and it's going 2155 02:05:53.560 --> 02:05:57.300 to be great. You know, and the cynicalists, you know, 2156 02:05:57.340 --> 02:05:59.800 part of their reverence for violence and kind of, like, 2157 02:05:59.819 --> 02:06:03.079 their relationship to Sorrel is, like, no. The

problem with 2158 02:06:03.119 --> 02:06:07.979 communism is that it's just as decadent as, you know, 2159 02:06:08.560 --> 02:06:11.500 as the bourgeoisie worldview. You know, and the function of 2160 02:06:11.560 --> 02:06:13.810 violence is that, you know, it forces man to be 2161 02:06:13.850 --> 02:06:17.210 engaged with mortality and with, you know, at least potentially 2162 02:06:17.270 --> 02:06:20.949 heroic action in, like, a day-to-day sense. You know, now 2163 02:06:20.970 --> 02:06:25.130 that can go too far, and you get, like, gangster-ass dudes, 2164 02:06:25.149 --> 02:06:27.229 as well as psychopaths, as well as some guys who 2165 02:06:27.250 --> 02:06:31.100 are just kind of, like, angry and misguided for various reasons. 2166 02:06:31.109 --> 02:06:33.760 You know, they take that to mean, like, well, there's 2167 02:06:33.779 --> 02:06:35.520 just kind of, like, an endless merge to, like, burn 2168 02:06:35.539 --> 02:06:38.550 things the fuck down and, like, fuck people up. And, like, 2169 02:06:38.689 --> 02:06:41.869 the most kind of pure iteration of that right now is, like, ISIS, 2170 02:06:42.029 --> 02:06:44.270 or whatever ISIS is, like, morphing into currently. 2171 02:06:44.869 --> 02:06:48.189 Okay? You know, what you have then is you have, like, 2172 02:06:48.210 --> 02:06:52.770 a bunch of Mongols. Okay? I mean, and that's not... 2173 02:06:52.560 --> 02:06:54.960 I mean, there's all kinds of reasons why that's not... 2174 02:06:55.300 --> 02:06:56.579 I'm sure some guys are going to say in the comments, 2175 02:06:56.619 --> 02:06:58.720 I mean, like, a pussy or something. It's like, okay, whatever. 2176 02:06:58.899 --> 02:07:00.319 But I don't think. 2177 02:07:01.100 --> 02:07:03.359 I don't think some kind of, like, endless, like, you know, 2178 02:07:03.399 --> 02:07:05.859 Mongol rampage against things we don't like is. 2179 02:07:07.409 --> 02:07:11.060 Is the way forward, but that is like a real tendency, man. 2180 02:07:11.319 --> 02:07:14.539 And that's why violence doesn't need to be tempered with reason. 2181 02:07:15.020 --> 02:07:17.300 And I think, and, and Sorrell does not like abandon 2182 02:07:17.340 --> 02:07:20.140 reason or something. Like, that's why he's not, he's not, 2183 02:07:20.159 --> 02:07:22.239 he's not, not only is he not an Ichian, but 2184 02:07:22.260 --> 02:07:25.609 he's not some, he was, he was not some like anti-rationalist, uh, 2185 02:07:26.270 --> 02:07:29.090 you know, uh, like Foucault of the right or something 2186 02:07:29.170 --> 02:07:29.529 at all. 2187 02:07:29.989 --> 02:07:30.510 You know what I mean? 2188 02:07:30.550 --> 02:07:34.779 That's why, uh, his issue with, uh, you know, his 2189 02:07:35.180 --> 02:07:37.960 issue with Socrates is that, like, Socrates, like, wasn't serving 2190 02:07:37.979 --> 02:07:41.279 a reason. You know, rationalism isn't logos. You know, it's 2191 02:07:41.600 --> 02:07:46.619 something entirely different. You know, that's why I, like I said, 2192 02:07:46.689 --> 02:07:49.149 I'm not an expert at all in the pre-Socratics. I 2193 02:07:49.170 --> 02:07:51.770 sure as hell can't read Greek or anything like that. 2194 02:07:53.029 --> 02:07:55.149 But I do think I've got a pretty decent understanding 2195 02:07:55.189 --> 02:07:58.720 of Sorrel and knowing that Sorrel, and knowing that Heidegger, like, 2196 02:07:58.760 --> 02:08:01.500 I read a, you know, I read the fragments of 2197 02:08:01.520 --> 02:08:06.460 Heraclitus that, um, I mean, that do exist. You know, 2198 02:08:06.739 --> 02:08:09.420 I spent a lot of time with Xenophon, and, uh, 2199 02:08:09.579 --> 02:08:15.020 there's nothing, uh, there's nothing anarchic about what Sorrel posits, um, in, like, 2200 02:08:15.060 --> 02:08:17.770 a colloquial sense. You know, I mean, yeah, he pertains 2201 02:08:17.779 --> 02:08:21.689 to some of the same, um, some of the same 2202 02:08:21.699 --> 02:08:25.409 intellectual heritage as, like, actual capital-A anarchists did, like, in 2203 02:08:25.449 --> 02:08:26.050 his epoch. 2204 02:08:26.069 --> 02:08:28.130 But he's not... He was not at all a guy 2205 02:08:28.149 --> 02:08:28.670 like Rahm. 2206 02:08:28.710 --> 02:08:30.649 He was not at all a guy who, you know, 2207 02:08:30.689 --> 02:08:33.609 he's not at all some, like, criminally-minded strange person or 2208 02:08:33.649 --> 02:08:40.340 some kind of nefarious outlier who, you know, just identified, like, 2209 02:08:40.359 --> 02:08:43.840 a path to, like, revolutionary action. And that's the way 2210 02:08:43.859 --> 02:08:46.539 people like to mischaracterize him. I mean, Sorrell's probably. 2211 02:08:48.239 --> 02:08:51.060 He's esoteric, like his whole body of work is, but 2212 02:08:51.090 --> 02:08:55.069 those that do actually have a deep understanding of 20th 2213 02:08:55.109 --> 02:09:02.390 century European intellectual foundations, they will very directly attack Sorrel and. 2214 02:09:01.369 --> 02:09:03.060 Paint him as like what I just said. 2215 02:09:03.119 --> 02:09:07.399 Like, oh, this guy was like, you know, he was 2216 02:09:07.420 --> 02:09:11.340 some Ernst Romm type psychopath, but without the medals and 2217 02:09:11.359 --> 02:09:15.210 the war record and and the body count. And it's not, 2218 02:09:15.229 --> 02:09:18.590 and that's a deliberate slander. Like, it's not what he 2219 02:09:18.609 --> 02:09:23.109 was at all. You know, so that's why there's an 2220 02:09:24.020 --> 02:09:27.899 enduring value to Sorrell, not. 2221 02:09:27.720 --> 02:09:29.380 Just to the political soldier. I guess that's what I'm 2222 02:09:29.399 --> 02:09:31.600 getting at. I even argue. 2223 02:09:32.800 --> 02:09:36.050 Like kind of hyper-modernist and worldly and like secularist that 2224 02:09:36.090 --> 02:09:39.159 Sorrell was I'd say that guys like the Iron Guard 2225 02:09:39.199 --> 02:09:42.180 and Codriano probably had more in common with Sorrel and 2226 02:09:42.220 -->

02:09:43.720 what he identified. 2227 02:09:43.159 --> 02:09:47.140 As the kind of Eastern mysticism. 2228 02:09:48.079 --> 02:09:52.640 That the Romanian Orthodox guys were into. Obviously, Sorrel would 2229 02:09:52.659 --> 02:09:55.600 have no use for that, but in terms of within 2230 02:09:55.640 --> 02:09:58.930 their own cultural paradigm, what they were trying to accomplish, 2231 02:10:01.250 --> 02:10:03.989 Sorrel probably would have looked approvingly on that more than 2232 02:10:04.010 --> 02:10:08.529 any kind of you know, inter-war, like, you know, radical 2233 02:10:08.590 --> 02:10:12.899 right movement, at least I think so. You know, it's, 2234 02:10:13.060 --> 02:10:15.439 and that's what I was about to say, it wasn't Spain, like, 2235 02:10:16.000 --> 02:10:20.319 they didn't go anywhere. Like, I mean, like I said, 2236 02:10:20.340 --> 02:10:22.239 those guys had guts, and they had a heart, and 2237 02:10:22.260 --> 02:10:24.300 they fought really hard, and I think their sacrifice should 2238 02:10:24.340 --> 02:10:27.489 be honored. But, I mean, there's a reason why, there's 2239 02:10:27.569 --> 02:10:30.210 a reason why kind of like that dullard Claudillo Franco, 2240 02:10:30.229 --> 02:10:36.159 this kind of like reactionary, like, crook, like, one out. 2241 02:10:36.170 --> 02:10:38.109 You know what I mean? It's not, it certainly wasn't 2242 02:10:38.149 --> 02:10:40.470 because of, like, his charisma or, like, his great mind 2243 02:10:40.510 --> 02:10:41.659 or something. It was because. 2244 02:10:43.899 --> 02:10:47.239 Cynicalism, even if it is tempered by a basic decency, like, 2245 02:10:47.279 --> 02:10:53.239 in moral terms, it isn't just kind of this, like, orgiastic, 2246 02:10:54.079 --> 02:10:58.439 you know, path, like, orgiastic, cathartic violence or something. It 2247 02:10:58.760 --> 02:11:02.720 does not, like, lay a foundation for sustainable structures or for, like, 2248 02:11:02.739 --> 02:11:05.300 a new kind of, like, dialectic that's going to you know, 2249 02:11:05.310 --> 02:11:06.569 build something in its stead. 2250 02:11:06.600 --> 02:11:10.220 I guess that was a point. Um, we're coming up 2251 02:11:10.300 --> 02:11:12.300 in the hour here, man. Um, yeah. 2252 02:11:12.340 --> 02:11:13.659 Let me get one more. 2253 02:11:13.939 --> 02:11:14.600 Yeah. 2254 02:11:14.659 --> 02:11:15.279 One more question. 2255 02:11:15.300 --> 02:11:15.920 Yeah. All right. 2256 02:11:15.939 --> 02:11:21.399 So when it comes to violence, um, is the, do 2257 02:11:21.420 --> 02:11:24.399 you think the aversion to violence in the United States, 2258 02:11:24.460 --> 02:11:29.699 is that because of our political heritage, our Protestant heritage? Um, 2259 02:11:30.039 --> 02:11:32.779 do you think it's because of the culture distorters coming 2260 02:11:32.939 --> 02:11:37.949 in and, um, basically making it verboten, or is it 2261 02:11:37.989 --> 02:11:41.109 a combination of both? Is it the culture distorters

using 2262 02:11:41.180 --> 02:11:42.819 our Protestant heritage against us? 2263 02:11:44.140 --> 02:11:46.439 America's got a very perverse relationship to violence. 2264 02:11:46.479 --> 02:11:50.859 And I think about something Ernest Younger kind of got 2265 02:11:50.939 --> 02:11:52.720 into and stuff like, you know, and then some of 2266 02:11:52.760 --> 02:11:57.229 his later, some of his quasi-science fiction novels had a 2267 02:11:57.250 --> 02:11:58.569 lot more social commentary. 2268 02:11:59.470 --> 02:12:00.729 Like, America's a place where the. 2269 02:12:00.689 --> 02:12:03.590 Way people claim they hate violence is But they get 2270 02:12:03.600 --> 02:12:06.369 all excited at the idea of, like, people being sexually 2271 02:12:06.430 --> 02:12:09.850 tortured in prison. You know, like, until recently, it was, 2272 02:12:10.229 --> 02:12:16.229 you know, an identified, you know, quote, human right to infanticide. Like, 2273 02:12:16.470 --> 02:12:19.909 there's this mass homicide machine in the Pentagon that just 2274 02:12:19.949 --> 02:12:24.060 constantly murders thousands of people for the most, like, ambiguous reasons. 2275 02:12:24.500 --> 02:12:28.000 You know, like, as it's currently doing to Russia. And people, like, 2276 02:12:28.100 --> 02:12:29.859 cheer that on. Like, it's just, like, not only, like, 2277 02:12:29.880 --> 02:12:32.380 they don't just tolerate it. Like, they get excited about it. 2278 02:12:32.810 --> 02:12:35.279 But then they'll turn around and say that violence is 2279 02:12:35.310 --> 02:12:40.750 the most horrible thing we can imagine. But they don't 2280 02:12:40.930 --> 02:12:43.510 really believe that. They've actually got no real respect for 2281 02:12:43.529 --> 02:12:50.470 human life. But because they don't, it's a kind of 2282 02:12:51.310 --> 02:12:56.890 milquetoast aversion to actual sovereign decisionism, coupled with a kind 2283 02:12:57.069 --> 02:13:05.340 of unmanly contempt for human life. where, you know, that 2284 02:13:05.760 --> 02:13:12.710 kind of identifies, you know, living things as commodities to 2285 02:13:12.750 --> 02:13:15.489 be exploited, just like everything else. 2286 02:13:15.590 --> 02:13:16.640 I mean, that's the way I read it. 2287 02:13:18.189 --> 02:13:21.829 But it's also, too, like, in ethical terms, the way these, like, 2288 02:13:23.010 --> 02:13:25.369 the way these, like, post-war liberals. 2289 02:13:25.020 --> 02:13:30.800 Like John Rawls, they're really the heiress, like, Jeremy Bentham. And, like, Bentham... 2290 02:13:32.140 --> 02:13:37.560 You know, the Enlightenment liberals and the people of Demeister 2291 02:13:37.579 --> 02:13:39.039 was always savaging correctly. 2292 02:13:39.060 --> 02:13:44.069 I mean, their utopia is a pointless society. You know, 2293 02:13:44.090 --> 02:13:46.630 like we talked about before. It's the ideology of a 2294 02:13:46.689 --> 02:13:49.569 nursing home or like a luxurious prison. It's a place 2295 02:13:49.590 --> 02:13:52.569 where nothing ever happens. You know, there's no value creation. 2296 02:13:52.590 --> 02:13:55.369 There's no culture. There's no passion. There's no love. There's 2297 02:13:55.409 --> 02:13:59.289 no hate. It's like where people exist, like fornicate or 2298 02:13:59.689 --> 02:14:03.729 perhaps masturbate more properly. you know, like, defecate and, like, 2299 02:14:04.010 --> 02:14:08.229 and eat and sleep and, like, that's it. But it's 2300 02:14:08.489 --> 02:14:12.250 this wonderful utopia because, like, you know, nothing bad happens, 2301 02:14:12.350 --> 02:14:17.090 nothing quote-unquote bad happens. I think it's the intellectual poverty 2302 02:14:17.409 --> 02:14:20.659 of the Enlightenment project, you know, coupled with a basically 2303 02:14:20.680 --> 02:14:28.659 kind of like agent senility in terms of the, you know, 2304 02:14:28.760 --> 02:14:32.270 the dominant bourgeoisie cultural strain, like, dominant in terms of 2305 02:14:32.289 --> 02:14:34.850 its ability to, like, impose its view upon, like, the 2306 02:14:34.890 --> 02:14:38.630 culture as a whole. Um, and yeah, it, and obviously it's, 2307 02:14:38.909 --> 02:14:42.439 you know, kind of like the culture distorts, uh, it's, 2308 02:14:42.579 --> 02:14:44.859 it's a primary objective of theirs to, you know, to 2309 02:14:44.880 --> 02:14:48.060 kind of, like, defang, like, their, the people they identify as, like. 2310 02:14:48.079 --> 02:14:49.439 Their moral, like, enemies. 2311 02:14:49.880 --> 02:14:51.399 You know, and one way to do that is to, 2312 02:14:51.939 --> 02:14:53.970 is to kind of, you know, condition people against, you know, 2313 02:14:54.050 --> 02:14:55.029 quote-unquote violence. 2314 02:14:55.649 --> 02:14:57.689 Or, like, you know, condition them to a tolerance for, like, 2315 02:14:57.729 --> 02:14:58.869 all kinds of horrible stuff. 2316 02:14:59.590 --> 02:15:03.510 But, you know, to, you know, to condition them away 2317 02:15:03.550 --> 02:15:06.750 from the ability to, like, apply violence constructively or in, like, 2318 02:15:06.770 --> 02:15:08.010 you know, a political capacity. 2319 02:15:08.569 --> 02:15:10.609 It's a complicated issue, but it's all those things. 2320 02:15:10.720 --> 02:15:16.579 But it's, you know, those conceits, though, like rationalism, like 2321 02:15:16.619 --> 02:15:19.899 rationalism can't abide anything that doesn't have some, like, utilitarian, 2322 02:15:20.380 --> 02:15:24.020 you know, like, very basically explicable purpose, like within its 2323 02:15:24.100 --> 02:15:26.000 own kind of self-referencing paradigm. 2324 02:15:26.399 --> 02:15:28.079 So, like, why would you care about anything enough to 2325 02:15:28.119 --> 02:15:30.880 be violent? You know, like, why would you care about 2326 02:15:30.960 --> 02:15:33.699 redemptive action? Like, why would you care about, you know, like, 2327 02:15:33.739 --> 02:15:36.890 writing injustice? Like, why would you care about

heroism? Like, 2328 02:15:36.899 --> 02:15:40.590 why would you care about, like, you know, masculine honor? Like, 2329 02:15:40.649 --> 02:15:42.550 none of those things matter because they don't have some 2330 02:15:42.590 --> 02:15:45.409 kind of utilitarian end that, like, helps us shit more 2331 02:15:45.449 --> 02:15:47.409 efficiently or, like, eat more food or something. 2332 02:15:49.310 --> 02:15:53.329 Yeah, they make the excuse that we have no problem 2333 02:15:53.350 --> 02:15:57.720 with violence as long as it's in self-defense. And then... 2334 02:15:58.250 --> 02:16:00.560 they get to define what self-defense is. 2335 02:16:01.149 --> 02:16:01.840 Well, yeah. 2336 02:16:01.909 --> 02:16:06.439 It's like some 250-pound linebacker beating the crap out of 2337 02:16:06.479 --> 02:16:09.020 some 80-year-old lady while screaming, she's trying to kill me. 2338 02:16:09.180 --> 02:16:10.079 That's what America is. 2339 02:16:12.199 --> 02:16:15.420 Well, that's definitely what the culture distorters are. 2340 02:16:15.439 --> 02:16:18.000 There's this idea that Vladimir Putin is a deranged maniac. 2341 02:16:18.020 --> 02:16:19.420 He doesn't want. 2342 02:16:25.500 --> 02:16:29.880 People pointing hypersonic missiles at Moscow at range of 300 miles. 2343 02:16:30.579 --> 02:16:33.399 I mean, it's like, like America's deployed in something like 2344 02:16:33.399 --> 02:16:36.780 170 bases across the world, but if Russia deploys on 2345 02:16:36.819 --> 02:16:39.639 its border, it's like, this is like a deranged act 2346 02:16:39.719 --> 02:16:40.280 of aggression. 2347 02:16:40.840 --> 02:16:43.520 I mean, it's like, there's, it's one part of. 2348 02:16:43.489 --> 02:16:47.409 Like delusion and senility on the part of, you know, 2349 02:16:47.450 --> 02:16:53.290 on the part of these clowns in government since 1992. 2350 02:16:53.290 --> 02:16:55.559 But part of it is, I mean, people are... Yeah, 2351 02:16:55.579 --> 02:16:56.510 people are actually. 2352 02:16:56.799 --> 02:16:59.979 I think a lot of people, like, in these kinds 2353 02:17:00.000 --> 02:17:03.959 of managerial cadres, they really are, like, obtuse and fucking stupid. 2354 02:17:03.559 --> 02:17:05.860 And, like, morally illiterate. Like, they really believe that. Like, 2355 02:17:06.139 --> 02:17:07.420 how dare you not let me punch you in the 2356 02:17:07.479 --> 02:17:08.540 face over and over again? 2357 02:17:08.700 --> 02:17:11.899 Like, it's... I didn't realize that for a long time, 2358 02:17:11.940 --> 02:17:15.860 but then I realized, like, these people really are... They're creeps. They're, like, 2359 02:17:15.879 --> 02:17:17.469 moral creeps, and they're just... Like, a lot of them 2360 02:17:17.489 --> 02:17:20.770 are just, like, fucking stupid. Like, they're not acting. Like, 2361 02:17:20.790 --> 02:17:21.290 Joe Biden. 2362 02:17:22.780 --> 02:17:24.280 Yeah, they're not acting. 2363 02:17:24.979 --> 02:17:28.059 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Biden really is a

fucking moron. Like, 2364 02:17:28.079 --> 02:17:28.739 aside from his. 2365 02:17:29.079 --> 02:17:33.159 Aside from whatever, like, organic dimension issues that they may 2366 02:17:33.180 --> 02:17:37.360 not have, like, the guy's a fucking idiot. You know, like... Like, 2367 02:17:37.379 --> 02:17:41.389 Nancy Pelosi is, like, a subnormal fucking moron. You know, like, they're... 2368 02:17:41.809 --> 02:17:45.389 With very rare exceptions, they're all like that. You know, 2369 02:17:45.469 --> 02:17:50.870 and it's... There's outliers, but they... you know, they're kind 2370 02:17:50.889 --> 02:17:53.290 of only in the game. A guy like Rand Paul 2371 02:17:53.309 --> 02:17:55.059 is only in the game because that's, like, literally become 2372 02:17:55.079 --> 02:17:56.739 kind of like a family business. I'm not, like, putting 2373 02:17:56.819 --> 02:18:00.379 shade on Rand Paul. He's about the only, like, he's 2374 02:18:00.399 --> 02:18:05.059 about the only career with Paul who I like at 2375 02:18:05.139 --> 02:18:06.170 all these days. 2376 02:18:06.870 --> 02:18:09.079 But my point is, like, I think Had he had 2377 02:18:09.180 --> 02:18:12.420 another kind of path to clout and money, I don't 2378 02:18:12.440 --> 02:18:16.600 think he'd be hanging around Washington. I just don't. That's 2379 02:18:16.639 --> 02:18:17.659 all other people can talk about. 2380 02:18:17.680 --> 02:18:23.920 The sociology of the managerial state, when there's not some 2381 02:18:23.959 --> 02:18:29.590 grand historical project, the merit of that project notwithstanding, whether 2382 02:18:29.950 --> 02:18:36.219 it's World War II or whether it's the Cold War, Like, 2383 02:18:36.239 --> 02:18:38.500 you know, I mean, the point before, like, Elon Musk 2384 02:18:38.500 --> 02:18:40.559 40 years ago, he'd be like Jerry Parnell. He would 2385 02:18:40.579 --> 02:18:43.760 have been, you know, heading up some pack and, like, 2386 02:18:43.799 --> 02:18:47.040 working hand in glove with the DOD on, like, SDI 2387 02:18:47.200 --> 02:18:50.000 and stuff like that. But, like, guys like him, like, 2388 02:18:50.020 --> 02:18:52.040 they don't want anything to do with government these days. 2389 02:18:52.100 --> 02:18:54.860 Why would they? Like, they have this repository of, like, 2390 02:18:54.940 --> 02:18:58.590 losers and, like, weirdos, frankly. You know what I mean? 2391 02:18:58.629 --> 02:19:02.250 That doesn't matter. He's definitely smart. 2392 02:19:02.290 --> 02:19:03.930 He's smart enough to take their money, though. 2393 02:19:06.049 --> 02:19:07.190 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 2394 02:19:07.290 --> 02:19:09.049 But I mean, it's part of the game. You know, 2395 02:19:09.069 --> 02:19:11.790 it's like, I get mad at people putting shade on Elon. 2396 02:19:11.809 --> 02:19:14.049 There's something that seems, like, loserish about it. I mean, 2397 02:19:14.069 --> 02:19:19.000 the dude is, he's an Afrikaner, a billionaire, who's a 2398 02:19:19.079 -->

02:19:24.219 genius innovator. And he's one of the only people who's 2399 02:19:24.239 --> 02:19:27.659 talking about truly Faustian things. You know, like the conquest 2400 02:19:27.700 --> 02:19:30.079 of space. Which, despite what people tell you, actually is 2401 02:19:30.120 --> 02:19:33.729 important on its own terms. um so there's something like 2402 02:19:33.770 --> 02:19:36.350 loserage about people like just deciding they hate elon musk 2403 02:19:36.409 --> 02:19:38.430 but he but yeah i mean the role he's in 2404 02:19:38.450 --> 02:19:41.350 not just of his wealth but because of like how 2405 02:19:41.399 --> 02:19:45.079 that wealth is kind of insinuated into things of touching 2406 02:19:45.100 --> 02:19:50.920 concern um you know uh like like you know technology 2407 02:19:50.940 --> 02:19:55.709 that um at scale, you know, the regime's relying upon. 2408 02:19:55.729 --> 02:19:58.569 I mean, he's going to be, like, a political actor, okay, 2409 02:19:59.329 --> 02:20:01.950 but the reason why, like, he doesn't covet, like, formal office, 2410 02:20:01.979 --> 02:20:04.579 so the reason why he's not, you know, engaged in, like, 2411 02:20:05.100 --> 02:20:08.079 think tank stuff is because, yeah, the end of the 2412 02:20:08.120 --> 02:20:11.780 Cold War brought an end to the ability of the 2413 02:20:11.819 --> 02:20:16.309 regime to attract men such as he to their environs. 2414 02:20:18.709 --> 02:20:21.430 Yeah, let's, if you want to do it with Brian Sorrell, 2415 02:20:21.670 --> 02:20:23.069 that'd be great, man. It's up to you. 2416 02:20:23.110 --> 02:20:25.190 And then we'll, after that, we'll get back to the 2417 02:20:25.229 --> 02:20:29.190 Cold War series and take up the Vietnam era. 2418 02:20:29.590 --> 02:20:32.190 Like, next episode, we'll do whichever you want. Like, either 2419 02:20:32.239 --> 02:20:33.000 of those would be fine. 2420 02:20:33.840 --> 02:20:36.260 I was thinking about jumping back into the Cold War 2421 02:20:36.280 --> 02:20:39.620 for a few episodes and then coming back into this, 2422 02:20:39.639 --> 02:20:41.639 because I think a lot of it will cross over. 2423 02:20:41.680 --> 02:20:45.500 I think we'll have, we'll actually even generate content for 2424 02:20:45.540 --> 02:20:48.309 the next Sorrell talk. especially with what we're going to 2425 02:20:48.350 --> 02:20:51.010 talk about in the next couple, in the next few 2426 02:20:51.110 --> 02:20:51.969 Cold War episodes. 2427 02:20:52.489 --> 02:20:54.379 No, that would be great, man. Yeah, there's a lot, 2428 02:20:55.059 --> 02:20:58.600 there's a lot, there's a lot to, there's a lot 2429 02:20:58.620 --> 02:21:02.000 there with Vietnam, and that dovetails not just with my 2430 02:21:02.040 --> 02:21:10.100 research on this, on this Nuremberg International Jurisprudence manuscript I'm 2431 02:21:10.139 --> 02:21:16.309 working on, but it, like, Vietnam's, Vietnam's important in ways 2432 02:21:16.690 --> 02:21:19.969 that not unlike

World War II is important, understanding the 2433 02:21:20.030 --> 02:21:26.219 current regime. It's like a founding mythology, obviously, nothing like that, 2434 02:21:26.319 --> 02:21:29.879 but it changed things in all kinds of ways. That 2435 02:21:30.479 --> 02:21:37.100 really was the hot battlefield of the Cold War. Militarily, politically, culturally, 2436 02:21:37.120 --> 02:21:39.760 it changed things. We'll get into all of that, but 2437 02:21:39.979 --> 02:21:42.250 my point is it's not just some.... 2438 02:21:44.030 --> 02:21:46.209 A question of trivia or some, or some, cause some 2439 02:21:46.229 --> 02:21:48.709 of that's like interesting to talk about, like, you know, 2440 02:21:48.729 --> 02:21:51.829 it might be to talk about kind of like, you know, the, 2441 02:21:52.299 --> 02:21:55.200 you know, some, some kind of like long forgotten, you know, 2442 02:21:55.559 --> 02:21:57.760 war waged by the British empire or something like it 2443 02:21:57.780 --> 02:21:59.379 remains really important. 2444 02:21:59.440 --> 02:22:01.879 Is my point. All right. 2445 02:22:02.280 --> 02:22:04.260 Um, two plugs and we'll get out of here. 2446 02:22:05.440 --> 02:22:05.739 Yeah. 2447 02:22:05.979 --> 02:22:07.559 Uh, you can still find me on Twitter. I mean, 2448 02:22:07.579 --> 02:22:09.100 they screw with me a lot, but I don't think 2449 02:22:09.120 --> 02:22:10.520 they're going to ban me again. Cause I think those 2450 02:22:10.559 --> 02:22:14.280 days are over. I mean, if they did well, I'm 2451 02:22:14.329 --> 02:22:17.209 launching a YouTube channel just in a few days here 2452 02:22:17.250 --> 02:22:20.530 after the first week in January. And I'll make sure 2453 02:22:20.549 --> 02:22:24.649 everybody knows where to find it. It's ThomasTV. You'll be 2454 02:22:24.670 --> 02:22:27.909 able to find it. But I'll plug it, like, on Twitter. 2455 02:22:27.930 --> 02:22:30.569 I'll plug it on Substack. I'll make sure people can 2456 02:22:30.649 --> 02:22:35.909 find it. My Twitter is at TriskelionJahad. The first T 2457 02:22:35.930 --> 02:22:40.200 is 7. If you search for Thomas777, I think you'll 2458 02:22:40.239 --> 02:22:43.000 find it. But, uh, you can find me on Substack 2459 02:22:43.059 --> 02:22:50.200 at realthomas777. substack. com. I've been canceled from, uh, T-Gram, which is 2460 02:22:50.239 --> 02:22:53.620 a shit, uh, company, in my opinion. I, I was 2461 02:22:53.700 --> 02:22:56.819 a paid subscriber and, uh, you know, mind you, they 2462 02:22:56.860 --> 02:23:01.479 welcome garbage, like, you know, hardcore pornography and, like, really disgusting, like, 2463 02:23:01.559 --> 02:23:05.079 gore stuff, but it's run by some Zionist crud who, like, 2464 02:23:05.409 --> 02:23:11.180 and apparently, like, the crime of, like, criticizing, uh, Somalia 2465 02:23:11.200 --> 02:23:13.600 of the Urals also known as Ukraine is like a 2466 02:23:13.639 --> 02:23:17.899 cancelable offense so I've got no use for that I 2467

02:23:17.940 --> 02:23:23.309 wish people would there's plenty of other chat options popping 2468 02:23:23.340 --> 02:23:26.010 up including at Substack itself. 2469 02:23:27.170 --> 02:23:28.950 You can join my Substack chat. 2470 02:23:28.649 --> 02:23:32.489 For free it's a lot more user friendly than Tgram 2471 02:23:32.530 --> 02:23:36.069 they don't censor anybody and we've got total control of 2472 02:23:36.149 --> 02:23:40.170 it because it's incident to my Tgram to my Substack. 2473 02:23:39.850 --> 02:23:46.579 Account You need to have the Substack app installed on 2474 02:23:46.610 --> 02:23:49.299 your phone in order to get notifications for it. 2475 02:23:50.020 --> 02:23:51.420 Yeah, but it's dope. 2476 02:23:51.639 --> 02:23:56.280 And so far, Substack has never ever done anything to 2477 02:23:56.340 --> 02:24:00.600 censor any of my content. And frankly, people like us 2478 02:24:00.780 --> 02:24:02.590 generate a hell of a lot of revenue for them. 2479 02:24:03.250 --> 02:24:06.959 And I think they realize that. which side their bread 2480 02:24:07.000 --> 02:24:08.420 is buttered on, as it were. So I don't think 2481 02:24:08.440 --> 02:24:11.799 that's going to change. But please migrate to Substack. I'm 2482 02:24:11.840 --> 02:24:14.040 done with T-Gram. I can't have good conscience. I'm not 2483 02:24:14.059 --> 02:24:16.559 going to pay money to people who cancel me. I'm 2484 02:24:16.579 --> 02:24:19.569 not going to utilize a platform where people abuse me. 2485 02:24:19.579 --> 02:24:25.829 And I've gotten really disgusting and awful communications from these, like, 2486 02:24:25.909 --> 02:24:29.809 Ukrainian sickos and, like, other people, man. Like, it's just 2487 02:24:29.829 --> 02:24:33.610 really gross stuff. I mean, like, I cannot– I don't 2488 02:24:33.629 --> 02:24:37.020 want to, you know, play– murder or something, but this 2489 02:24:37.059 --> 02:24:40.600 idea that, well, T-Gram kind of sucks, but it's good 2490 02:24:40.620 --> 02:24:43.600 for other things. It's not a good platform, man. It's 2491 02:24:44.020 --> 02:24:47.969 a repository of malware and spyware. It's always fucked up. 2492 02:24:48.010 --> 02:24:48.889 The user interface. 2493 02:24:48.989 --> 02:24:50.709 It's bot hell. 2494 02:24:51.190 --> 02:24:52.389 Yeah, man. It's a shithole. 2495 02:24:52.510 --> 02:24:54.770 I don't know why people are so attached to it. 2496 02:24:54.969 --> 02:24:56.530 It's like, what are you getting out of this? 2497 02:24:56.610 --> 02:24:59.090 But whatever. So yeah, there's no more. I will never 2498 02:24:59.149 --> 02:25:02.290 return there. But yeah, forgive the rant, but that's where you. 2499 02:25:02.229 --> 02:25:06.799 Can find me My second novel, which is the second 2500 02:25:08.139 --> 02:25:10.659 Steel Storm novel, is going to drop in January. I 2501 02:25:10.659 --> 02:25:13.620 know people have been asking about that, but that's all 2502 02:25:13.649 --> 02:25:14.309 I've got for now. 2503 02:25:15.090 --> 02:25:17.909 And thank you very much, everybody, for all the kind feedback. 2504 02:25:20.069 --> 02:25:23.530 This will be the first episode of the new year. 2505 02:25:25.510 --> 02:25:29.799 Thank everybody for this previous year. It's been absolutely amazing. 2506 02:25:30.360 --> 02:25:33.190 And just to say about Substack, Substack will be the 2507 02:25:33.370 --> 02:25:35.649 only place that someone like you or me will ever 2508 02:25:35.729 --> 02:25:36.549 get a checkmark. 2509 02:25:37.590 --> 02:25:41.319 Yeah. Yeah. 2510 02:25:43.420 --> 02:25:46.340 I remember I logged on and I looked at one 2511 02:25:46.360 --> 02:25:48.100 of my posts and there was a checkmark next to 2512 02:25:48.120 --> 02:25:50.440 my name. And I'm like, that's weird. 2513 02:25:52.219 --> 02:25:53.379 Yeah, no, it's. 2514 02:25:53.459 --> 02:25:57.340 In some ways weird. the, uh, the market is a 2515 02:25:57.379 --> 02:25:59.799 corrective and we, we make a lot of money. 2516 02:25:59.680 --> 02:26:00.459 For those people, man. 2517 02:26:00.500 --> 02:26:02.500 They make money because of us. I mean, they're not, 2518 02:26:03.180 --> 02:26:06.420 they're not, uh, I mean, that's, that, that really is 2519 02:26:06.440 --> 02:26:08.399 their bread and butter. I mean, it's not a platform 2520 02:26:08.420 --> 02:26:10.260 that draws advertising revenue, really. 2521 02:26:10.280 --> 02:26:11.159 I mean, yeah. 2522 02:26:11.639 --> 02:26:14.969 So they, I'm a huge fan of Substack, man. I, 2523 02:26:15.110 --> 02:26:17.829 I really am. So yeah, please dip into the Substack chat. It's, 2524 02:26:18.549 --> 02:26:20.829 I mean, basically like the core guys and a few 2525 02:26:20.870 --> 02:26:24.209 ladies and we, we appreciate them being among us too. Um, 2526 02:26:25.479 --> 02:26:28.879 it's basically like the T-Gram mob like basically migrated there 2527 02:26:28.899 --> 02:26:30.639 but there's still some like holdouts and I don't know 2528 02:26:30.659 --> 02:26:32.780 if they're fucking masochists or what it's like wipe the 2529 02:26:32.829 --> 02:26:37.829 freaking T-Gram man it's bad for you it's bad for 2530 02:26:37.870 --> 02:26:40.510 you but yeah I can't thank you enough man and 2531 02:26:40.610 --> 02:26:42.989 I'm really stoked that people have been so excited about 2532 02:26:43.030 --> 02:26:46.870 this series and yeah we'll get into we'll get into 2533 02:26:47.450 --> 02:26:49.889 the Vietnam War next episode and then we'll get back 2534 02:26:49.930 --> 02:26:54.579 to Sorrel and Reflections on Violence subsequently. 2535 02:26:55.909 --> 02:26:57.069 Appreciate it, Thomas. Thank you.