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Ah, welcome back to the Lars Larson Show.
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It's a pleasure to be with you.
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I'm glad to get you here.
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This one I find really kind of bizarre.
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It has to do with the Catholic faith.
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And uh Michael Hinchborne joins me now, founder and president of the Leponto Institute, if I'm saying that the right way.
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Michael, welcome to the program.
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Thank you for having me on.
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And yes, you said it just right.
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I am a Protestant Christian, uh, so I don't identify with the beliefs of Catholics.
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But uh it struck me as very strange that Lepanto has come out with a report, 144 pages long, fairly comprehensive, about the Vatican's fifth world meeting of popular movements.
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What is that all about and why is the Vatican involved in it?
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So, yeah, as a I am a faithful Catholic.
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I have been my entire life, and I am absolutely flummoxed by what we discovered.
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Uh back in 2014, Pope Francis started the World Meeting of Popular Movements, which was supposed to be kind of a gathering of a lot of different what he termed popular movements, but in essence, what they are, they are actual communist organizations getting together trying to push for a globalist socialist society.
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And uh Pope Francis was very much in align with them.
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People may remember that back in 2015 he received this bizarre hammer and sickle crucifix from uh Evo Morales out in Bolivia.
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But what nobody seems to remember is that he was in Bolivia because he was there to lead the world meeting of popular movements, and Evo Morales was there sitting next to him the entire time.
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So what we discovered is that in 2025, just last year, last October, uh Pope Leo XIV again convened this world meeting of popular movements.
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And he were I I don't know if he knew who these organizations were.
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He was only Pope for the last five months.
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So uh he uh he called them social poets, he called them champions of humanity, but they couldn't possibly be anything further from the truth because those are actual hammer and sickle, Karl Marx reading, communist organizations.
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So tell me this.
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Um, in the case of this pop these popular movements, you say four out of the twelve profiled are either explicitly pagan in their beliefs or they perform pagan rituals as part of their organizational activities.
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Now, if the aim of the Vatican is, you know, because as I said, I don't identify with the Catholic Church, but uh if they said, well, we want to meet with these people because we'd like to bring them into the fold, we'd like to bring them to a belief in Jesus Christ, um, that's one thing.
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But otherwise, why would you want to be identifying with groups that are pro-abortion, which you'd think would be antithetical to Catholic belief, uh pro-homosexual belief, pro-transgender, all of these things that run directly counter to the message of Christianity and to the message of the Catholic Church?
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Well, you you just hit the nail right on the head.
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That's the question of the day.
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Why in the world indeed would they have these groups there?
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Uh Cardinal Cherney and the coordinator, Father Matteo Ferrari, said that the purpose of having those groups there was to build bridges and to accompany these movements, including the non-Christian ones, the pagan ones, and integrate them as, and this is a quote, as a living, thinking, acting part of church life.
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What?
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So what they're talking, yeah, I mean, this is this is really scandalous.
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So what they're talking about doing is trying to integrate these groups with local Catholic churches.
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And what's gonna happen, and my grandmother always said, if you play in the mud wearing white gloves, the mud doesn't become glovey.
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And that's the truth.
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That's a great one.
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I'm gonna have to file that one away because that's a great I love metaphors and you know, of course, parables, Jesus loved metaph metaphors and parables as well.
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But unless they're saying there are all these people and we can straighten them out and get them to the proper set of beliefs, then why would you want to bring them in and say, if within the organization of any church, whether it's the Catholic Church or the broader Protestant movement, why would you want to say, we want to bring these folks in and have them operate their movements within the church, it would seem as though it'd be the kind of thing that would help to tear your faith group apart, wouldn't it?
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Absolutely.
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And that's why we're sounding the alarm, because I do believe that there are operatives within the Catholic Church that are trying to submit or to subvert the true mission of the Catholic Church, which is the salvation of souls.
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Load full transcript
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Uh, by bringing in these pagans, these uh witch doctors, uh, these demonic worshipers, what they're doing is they're they're now exposing vulnerable people to real demon worshipers.
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And that's that's a huge, huge scandal.
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Well, in fact, there's and you may have to help me with the name because I'm usually pretty good with pronunciations, Candomble Oryxa Osanja.
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What the heck is that?
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So candomble is a syncretistic religion that's practiced by Afro Afro-Brazilians.
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Uh so slaves from Africa came to Brazil and they brought the uh the paganism that they had been worshiping with them.
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And it's kind of like a mix of voodoo and santeria.
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So you have these demon worshippers, they get together, they've got their drums, their dances, they're worshiping these demons, and they're calling upon spirits to possess their bodies, uh, so that they can do divination and and uh you know cast prophecies and that kind of thing.
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Um, but it that's what Kendomble is, and so they they the the Erixas that you're talking about, these are uh they're they're kind of like um priests or shamans uh who are going to sit there, or the orixas are the deem the deities and the spirits, but the uh the other is the uh the the shamans who are out there to try and bring people to interact with these orixas, these spirits and deities.
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But okay, that then let me ask you this.
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Michael Hinchborne is with Hitchbourne is with me, founder and president of the Lepanto Institute, that put out this report.
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What do you tell the rest of your flock?
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If you say to them, these things are bad, killing babies is bad.
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Homosexuality doesn't conform with you know a Catholic belief.
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We can we can love somebody, but if they're committing sins, they've got to they've got to end the sins.
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And you say to the rest of your flock, this is not okay, but these people are all part of our group, and they can continue to do these things, and you're just to simply what?
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Ignore what they're doing and say, even though it doesn't, it doesn't actually mesh with any part of our beliefs, that we should still make them part of our group.
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I think we might have lost our connection with Michael Hitchborne.
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Uh let's see if we can get him back.
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Michael, are you there?
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No, we'll see if he did.
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I don't know if his phone line dropped or what, but imagine this a 144-page report that says the Catholic Church is now going out to these groups that are openly Marxist, that may be tied to guerrilla violence, that may be literally witch doctors, and then they are going to say, Well, we're going to break these people part of our groups.
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Michael, what message should people take away from this?
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Well, the message is that we we've been infiltrated and that there are there are traitors within the church that are trying to subvert the church's true teachings.
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And uh just like Judas uh tried subverting the teachings of Christ and and uh had his hand in the till.