رونوشت کامل Revisiting Hunting Stories, Retrievers and Photography with Aaron Hitchins

had like a couple of rotwaters or dogamons or something. 00:04:58.990 --> 00:05:15.456 She never owned a dog, never trained a dog, and she, via you know sort of our time spent with Cornerstone and around the sort of British Labrador scene she sort of fell in love with the dogs, one at one and we got one. 00:05:17.365 --> 00:05:31.298 So it's been really interesting because mom is such a wonderful test case for Cornerstone because she has no like doesn't duck hunt, right, doesn't waterfell hunt, hasn't owned a dog, has no prior exposure. 00:05:31.298 --> 00:05:38.555 So it's very much like somebody with zero prior knowledge, zero biases, and we can get into that later on. 00:05:38.555 --> 00:05:42.052 But basically what I was getting at there is you know, mom has a SOK lab. 00:05:42.052 --> 00:05:48.920 She was next door when I live in Camar, alberta, you know, it gets up to into the 90s. 00:05:48.920 --> 00:05:55.985 It might touch 100 once in the summer, but in the winter it will go down to like a no shit minus 40. 00:05:55.985 --> 00:06:01.682 And that dog will go and play in the river and it'll be. 00:06:01.682 --> 00:06:06.211 It'll be, you know, minus minus 20, no problem, you will. 00:06:06.211 --> 00:06:10.310 And he will go and swim around like it's the mid, like it's any other day. 00:06:10.310 --> 00:06:27.845 And that just blows my mind that within one, not just one species but one lineage and then one specific individual dog can just go somewhere and grow enough extra hair that like that's cool yeah they enjoy it. 00:06:28.160 --> 00:06:35.093 You know, you could bring Red up here, who's sired, forage and or any of his siblings, and they might die. 00:06:35.093 --> 00:06:46.541 Yeah, and like in the summer, when you get him going here, it's like he just like checks out and he goes and sits in the shade and he's like, uh-uh, you know. 00:06:46.541 --> 00:06:49.490 So it's crazy to me that they adapt that much. 00:06:49.490 --> 00:06:52.028 Yeah it's bizarre. 00:06:52.952 --> 00:07:04.290 It's bizarre that they can even handle it, though, I mean, but Labrador is traditionally speaking, being from Lake Labrador and being used originally to fish out. 00:07:04.290 --> 00:07:14.237 Honestly, they probably in my mind they looked a lot like the dummies that we train with today, I mean, like foam buoys connected to fishing nets. 00:07:14.237 --> 00:07:21.560 Right, that was the original purpose and that's a lot closer to you weather wise than it is to down here. 00:07:21.560 --> 00:07:25.860 I think down here is a little bit of a disservice as far as how hot it gets for these dogs. 00:07:25.860 --> 00:07:33.279 I mean, people ask me all the time around town in August and even September hey, you training dogs and it's so hot outside. 00:07:33.279 --> 00:07:35.928 I'm like, dude, imagine just putting on a fur coat right now. 00:07:35.928 --> 00:07:40.007 Just put it on and stand here and then do you want to go run? 00:07:40.007 --> 00:07:44.706

Some wind sprints Like no, it's too hot, too hot. 00:07:44.706 --> 00:07:50.790 So definitely better, definitely better, up there, and I've seen some dogs do some crazy stuff in cold water. 00:07:50.790 --> 00:07:54.608 Let's talk about speaking of cold. 00:07:55.571 --> 00:07:57.555 When I met you, we jumped right into dogs. 00:07:57.555 --> 00:08:13.052 But I do have like a trajectory of history for people that don't know you, because I feel like there are probably some people who know Rockhouse and know you and then probably some people listening who have no idea, and we just jumped into Moe and Forge and WaterTemps, which is perfect. 00:08:13.052 --> 00:08:45.724 The day that I met you, it was really cold for Kansas and I had taken my dad to hunt in Kansas with an outfitter, had no idea who you were, it had snowed and we spent, I think, basically the entire day sitting in a layout, blind in I can't remember if it was a cornfield or a biofield With pretty stiff wind. 00:08:45.724 --> 00:08:56.437 Talking about, you kind of looked like Jesus and I believed in Jesus and we had this hefty conversation that started out I don't even know where. 00:08:56.437 --> 00:09:01.120 I think you said something like I've never met a Christian who just didn't hate gay people in abortion. 00:09:01.741 --> 00:09:03.067 I think that's how it's going. 00:09:03.067 --> 00:09:07.547 That feels like a pretty hot sentence for me to say. 00:09:07.547 --> 00:09:12.344 I'm usually pretty anti-absolute, but I was a young man and it's very possible. 00:09:12.344 --> 00:09:16.352 And even if it's not possible, it's a good segue it would have been decent. 00:09:16.352 --> 00:09:18.546 I shortly thereafter. 00:09:18.546 --> 00:09:23.359 Actually, I ended up nicknamed Fat Jesus up in Alaska, so it works. 00:09:23.359 --> 00:09:26.360 So you're not the only one that thought that I had some Christ-like appearances. 00:09:27.140 --> 00:09:28.924 You looked like him physically. 00:09:28.924 --> 00:09:32.913 That was at least the him that we've imagined. 00:09:33.253 --> 00:09:33.573 Who knows? 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:48.772 Probably very different because you're Canadian and not Middle Eastern, but I mean, that would have been December, december 17th, 17th of, I can't remember what year 2012. 00:09:48.772 --> 00:09:50.316 Yeah, 12. 00:09:50.316 --> 00:09:50.937 12? 00:09:50.937 --> 00:09:51.960 , 11 or 12? 00:09:53.730 --> 00:09:54.013 12. 00:09:54.013 --> 00:09:54.999 If it was 11, it was 12. 00:09:56.442 --> 00:10:05.845 I had Maggie, which is baby the, in the first 10 dogs I ever trained and the first dog of Southern Oak Kennels. 00:10:05.845 --> 00:10:12.628 And I remember right before I left for that trip I had made business cards that said Southern Oak Kennels on them. 00:10:12.628 --> 00:10:17.429 It was like the first official thing that I could like give somebody with the OG logo. 00:10:17.429 --> 00:10:22.524 And you had made a couple websites and had taken some pretty banger photos. 00:10:22.524 --> 00:10:26.913 But Rockhouse Motion existed at that point without you. 00:10:27.840 --> 00:10:28.442 That would have been. 00:10:29.264 --> 00:10:36.078 I guess 11 years ago, this December, which is nuts, that's crazy. 00:10:36.099 --> 00:10:36.559 Yeah, it's jarring. 00:10:36.720 --> 00:10:40.307 And it's nuts to think about over a decade ago, since that. 00:10:41.470 --> 00:10:42.753 Yeah, pretty wild. 00:10:42.753 --> 00:10:45.720 So we're on a whole day rife with theological debate. 00:10:46.624 --> 00:10:50.360 And we shot some geese at like we're just going to call it at shooting light. 00:10:51.302 --> 00:10:52.648 Yeah, it was the 11th hour. 00:10:53.059 --> 00:11:00.508 Yeah Well, big, big old group of geese came in and you actually took some pictures of Maggie with those birds next to a fence. 00:11:00.508 --> 00:11:02.075 I've got it sitting on. 00:11:02.075 --> 00:11:10.873 I'm just moved into this office but it's sitting on the other side of this desk to hang up in here Photos from from that hunt, of her carrying some honkers around. 00:11:10.873 --> 00:11:22.287 That was her first goose to retrieve and, uh yeah, that started a a quite a long history of friendship and business hanging out in the Kansas cornfield. 00:11:22.346 --> 00:11:24.980 My dad was there and he was ill prepared. 00:11:24.980 --> 00:11:26.787 He's talking about preparing for hunting season. 00:11:26.787 --> 00:11:41.080 My dad's blind bag was a doubled up plastic Walmart sack and he had a box of Kleenexes and three or four packs of smokes in there and was wearing a bunch of clothes that he had bought offline, like electric gloves and stuff. 00:11:41.080 --> 00:11:58.004 And do you remember it was windy and he got up and he got on the other side of like a uh tree, small tree, and we were freezing and I look over and he has shed like seven layers of clothing and he yells across the field. 00:11:58.004 --> 00:12:00.491 He's like it's amazing how warmer it is when you get out of that wind. 00:12:00.491 --> 00:12:04.019 He's over there just smoking, hanging out. 00:12:06.245 --> 00:12:15.000 Yeah, those were the sort of the final days pre-sick of year, or there might have been some in the mix, but man, whatever we had, that day was not enough. 00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:15.321 It was. 00:12:15.321 --> 00:12:17.408 That was honestly one of the coolest days of our hunt. 00:12:17.769 --> 00:12:19.640 It was just cause. 00:12:19.660 --> 00:12:20.602 The problem is is you. 00:12:20.602 --> 00:12:25.243 You know they're going to fly at sunset but like they might not. 00:12:25.243 --> 00:12:48.600 And the thing about guiding is if people come and drive across a bunch of states and pay a bunch of money and you wake up at you know noon, chill for two and a half hours and then go hunt for 20 minutes, like doesn't really scratch the itch, you know they hate, being out there all day, but they also would hate not being out there all day, and when it's

that cold, you know they don't. 00:12:48.841 --> 00:12:49.926 nothing flies in the morning. 00:12:49.926 --> 00:12:55.062 So you're kind of just you basically just torturing people so that they think you're trying hard. 00:12:55.623 --> 00:12:57.927 In December of 2012,. 00:12:57.927 --> 00:13:18.120 I knew none of that, none of that December of 2023, if I were at an outfitter in that same county right now and that were that happened to be the weather conditions, I would say, hey, let's go set the spread, let's go hang out at the lodge and when there's about 50 minutes of shooting light left, we'll go set. 00:13:18.120 --> 00:13:22.653 That's it, and that's maybe that's if we don't just decide not to go. 00:13:23.595 --> 00:13:28.671 Yeah, it is interesting how you know and it varies. 00:13:28.671 --> 00:13:33.104 It's not like it's just a fully declining trend, but you go through different phases of mad at them. 00:13:33.104 --> 00:13:38.624 You know, like there was obviously when you're younger and you haven't done it. 00:13:38.624 --> 00:13:57.414 You, when you feel like you have things to prove, like you'll march to the ends of the earth to throw out three dozen decoys and shoot, you know, trying to shoot at mallard, you know, and with snow geese obviously, like you, those you got to pay the price to be mad at those things. 00:13:57.830 --> 00:14:02.341 And there's people that, for as long as I've been in this industry, that's their spring. 00:14:02.341 --> 00:14:03.222 Snows is their deal. 00:14:04.013 --> 00:14:05.750 It's a lot of work Like. 00:14:05.750 --> 00:14:07.738 It's amazing to me that that's like. 00:14:10.254 --> 00:14:11.798 Birds that no one even hears about. 00:14:11.798 --> 00:14:40.787 Right, and because, like the good days I guess are so good, but it's just such an unenjoyable general practice, right, like if you can get me into, into, into water, especially a marsh in the fall, you know some people might be a swamp, but to somebody who pays attention or has like a fragment of ecological interest, you know you're watching this entire ecosystem transition. 00:14:40.787 --> 00:14:50.841 You're seeing all these other migratory birds, you know the wind and the cat tails and and and it's just like beautiful, beautiful, like super alive place. 00:14:50.841 --> 00:15:06.351 Yeah, it could be cold and it can, the hunt can be bad, but like you're in nature, right, spring snows is like this once had the potential to grow, like it's not like there's a crop that's even really still there, it's basically just mud. 00:15:06.351 --> 00:15:18.162 And so you're just grinding through this muddy hellscape at you know two, 30 in the morning to do a plug in a couple thousand. 00:15:19.292 --> 00:15:22.196 Thousands of all day and then do it again. 00:15:22.196 --> 00:15:32.621 Like the thing that's amazing to me is like people get that tired, right, I think I sort of forget about this because you know we'll do stuff and people get like. 00:15:32.621 --> 00:15:55.716 They're like, oh, I'm worn out and it's like, well, yeah, like I feel like shit, but I, you know this, this ain't nothing on a good run of goose hunts and the thing about it is like that, to your point, like people get older, they have the good days, they have the success, and still they go out there for 30 days in a row and just beat themselves to death. 00:15:56.337 --> 00:16:05.018 Yeah, well, thank goodness for those people so that people like me can go like twice a year maybe and like, hey, we got a good feed. 00:16:05.018 --> 00:16:05.759 It's like, oh great. 00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:12.054 And I mean it is unreal when you go on those hundred plus bird days of snow goose shooting, especially if it's like a real banger. 00:16:12.054 --> 00:16:18.118 But yeah, I'm out on that amount of work and honestly, I'm not really mad at them. 00:16:18.118 --> 00:16:22.980 I know some of the people that listen are I love shooting waterfowl in awesome environments. 00:16:22.980 --> 00:16:33.317 Honestly, I've truly gotten to the point where it's about the dog almost entirely, or it's about Noah or Naomi shooting one. 00:16:33.317 --> 00:16:39.952 Like when Noah shot his first mallard it was in the timber, it's on an episode of the bond. 00:16:39.952 --> 00:16:43.160 Actually it was unreal. 00:16:43.160 --> 00:16:45.976 Like that feeling was particularly special. 00:16:45.976 --> 00:16:49.660 But like if we have a, I'm just not mad. 00:16:49.660 --> 00:16:57.261 If we don't have a good hunt or if we people like apologize all the time like sorry man, I'm like, look dude, I'm way past it, it's cool, I just want to work the dog. 00:16:57.990 --> 00:17:06.019 I want to see the dog make a phenomenal retrieve Right, and I mean especially once you've guided or once you spend a lot of time hunting hard. 00:17:06.019 --> 00:17:12.061 I mean I'm not taking it personally whenever, whenever things don't go well. 00:17:12.770 --> 00:17:23.990 And the thing is is like what's important to understand is both Bart and I have had the great privilege of hunting in a lot of the best places with the best people at the best time of year, like we've. 00:17:24.592 --> 00:17:28.421 We've really seen, you know, seen some shit. 00:17:28.421 --> 00:17:40.154 I guess the lack of better words, um, and honestly, for me, a lot of the times that I I enjoy on some the most are not necessarily when it all lines up and it ought to be good. 00:17:40.154 --> 00:17:52.480 It's when there's something that is challenging or we're on, you know, I'm I'm sort of running the show on my own, or it's like a good spot but a really bad day. 00:17:52.480 --> 00:18:02.519 You know, we had one a couple of years ago in Arkansas where it was like rainy and no wind and it was one of those things like you're saying about you know hunting the last 50 minutes of day. 00:18:02.519 --> 00:18:06.420 I was like do we like, should we have got more drunk last night? 00:18:06.420 -->

00:18:08.195 Like do we want to do this? 00:18:08.195 --> 00:18:22.752 And we went out and you had to lean on it, call it, you know, and just like I was like lightheaded every time but like we killed them a full five man of green heads and like work for it. 00:18:23.173 --> 00:18:31.019 You know it's like that will stick with me longer than the the sunny perfect days, just because you know there's a little bit of the work in it. 00:18:31.019 --> 00:18:37.698 And I think that that's where the dog side really comes in, that I got to experience the first time with forge, with the dog that we worked on. 00:18:37.698 --> 00:18:47.172 It's like it just adds such an incredible other level of of enjoyment that you know from where I'm sitting right now. 00:18:47.172 --> 00:18:58.134 You know I don't necessarily need to water fall on the first couple of months of the year, which for us is September, october right, that's when it's elk season. 00:18:58.134 --> 00:19:00.175 Living in Alberta, we can hunt big ones. 00:19:00.670 --> 00:19:03.338 So you know there's always a bit of a sheep dream to chase. 00:19:03.338 --> 00:19:05.714 There's our tree mule. 00:19:05.714 --> 00:19:06.857 Deer is on a general tag. 00:19:06.857 --> 00:19:12.320 There's lots going on fishing still good everywhere, or your great everywhere. 00:19:12.320 --> 00:19:18.701 There's tons going on and move going over to, you know, each of Alberta's to sketch one. 00:19:18.701 --> 00:19:25.138 It's a bit of a jaunt and a bit of an effort and the thing about waterfall hunting is like, yeah, you can just go, but like it's not gonna work. 00:19:25.138 --> 00:19:28.209 So if I'm going to go somewhere I need to go and scout for a day or two. 00:19:28.671 --> 00:19:31.499 And then you know it's the time adds up pretty quick. 00:19:32.549 --> 00:19:56.118 So, like, without the dog in the picture, I would take advantage of the great privilege I have of knowing people in great spots and, you know, count on a couple of invites through the late fall and winter and maybe, you know, go out on my own a couple of days in Kansas but get, you know, five, six great hunts and sort of scratch the edge, which at this stage of my life is kind of what I'm sort of able to do. 00:19:57.150 --> 00:20:01.121 But with the dog in the picture now it's like, how do we make this work? 00:20:01.121 --> 00:20:17.419 Because as the years go by, you know, the pandemic really put a clamp on a couple of years for him and then we had a really, really awesome hunt and scatch one for basically everything and it was sort of his first and, to this point, only time out. 00:20:17.419 --> 00:20:27.972 And you start to be like man, this dog is good, like he can do this, he wants to do this, but it's hard to, you know, it's hard to create opportunities than I, you know, I ever would have expected. 00:20:27.972 --> 00:20:30.776 So yeah, I feel like man. 00:20:30.776 --> 00:20:33.878 I got to get this dude out and my mom also guilt the hell out of me on it. 00:20:34.309 --> 00:20:35.795 That's the dog out. 00:20:35.795 --> 00:20:36.596 It's so fun. 00:20:36.636 --> 00:20:39.595 It's crazy, it's transcendent on the experience of the hunt. 00:20:39.615 --> 00:20:40.376 Right, it is, it is. 00:20:40.376 --> 00:21:01.558 And if you haven't hunted with your own dog that you've put some work into I mean you've put the work into teaching this dog how to do all this and then having like seeing that happen in real time is for me such a fulfilling thing, so much better than just going on a successful hunt. 00:21:01.558 --> 00:21:13.122 And, like you said, I mean every year I get to go on hunts that like the first three or four years that I was in the waterfowling, I would have said like that was the hunt of a lifetime. 00:21:13.122 --> 00:21:18.382 You know, like that was that I get to go on three or four of those at least every year. 00:21:18.382 --> 00:21:23.520 And I'm, I'm, I recognize the, the privilege that comes with that just through doing what I do. 00:21:23.520 --> 00:21:25.012 It's really fun. 00:21:25.012 --> 00:21:27.098 But you kind of it kind of gets lost on you. 00:21:27.098 --> 00:21:32.875 Like you're walking around cleaning up and you see other guys that are like they're bewildered by what just happened. 00:21:32.875 --> 00:21:38.455 You know smoked a 10 man of mallards in a cornfield at sunset, sort of thing, and I'm like, yeah, that was cool. 00:21:38.455 --> 00:21:40.195 Um, what's for dinner? 00:21:40.195 --> 00:21:40.671 You know? 00:21:40.750 --> 00:21:49.556 But the ones I remember like we had this mixed bag hunt at um Stuart Ranch last year at the end of the year with a bunch of clients and I truly was just running dogs. 00:21:49.556 --> 00:21:54.561 I was like I'm, I'm here for the dog and I had Rio and I ran a blind retreat with that dog. 00:21:54.561 --> 00:21:55.003 That was. 00:21:55.003 --> 00:21:58.016 I think everyone in the blind was like that duck's not gettable. 00:21:58.016 --> 00:22:01.880 You know, we'll have to take a ATV over there later and see if it's there. 00:22:01.880 --> 00:22:08.412 And it was very much still alive and that's important to me to like give a good effort and man, he got it and it was. 00:22:08.412 --> 00:22:20.013 I won't go into the details but it was one of those blind retrieves that had, like every factor water, a levy, an angle, cast into another body of water out of sight, over another levy, into woods, and then it's just all dog. 00:22:20.013 --> 00:22:27.642 And when he came back over the the second levy with the duck, I was like yep, that that's why I'm out here. 00:22:27.642 --> 00:22:31.037 I'm right, the day has been made, trip has been made. 00:22:32.653 --> 00:22:39.759 And what's weird about it like the only thing that kind of tricked me up is like you start getting excited when somebody makes a bad shot at something. 00:22:39.759 --> 00:22:42.569 Sales out here Like ooh yeah, that's not funny. 00:22:42.569 -->

00:22:48.240 Normally I would be gone from guiding and just cussing them out and being like I didn't know I'd start. 00:22:48.601 --> 00:22:49.982 That was one more Dude. 00:22:49.982 --> 00:22:57.542 I see that I'm going to England at the end of October for the first time since 2018 because of the pandemic. 00:22:57.542 --> 00:23:02.039 I went to New Zealand in 19 and then pandemic and 20 shut all that down. 00:23:02.039 --> 00:23:14.673 So I'm going to watch some field trials and it's very funny because I'm going to shoot at a trial over there and the amount of pressure not to just hit the bird but give the dog a good retrieve. 00:23:14.673 --> 00:23:36.259 So like the last thing you want to do is flush a bird up at the front of the line and just smoke it, Because you're going to have a sack of feathers and meat that's 10 feet off the line and everyone is going to be looking at you like, come on, dude, but you don't want to miss it and you also don't want to clip one that sales 250, because then everyone running a dog hates you. 00:23:37.329 --> 00:23:39.036 So it's like this game of. 00:23:39.036 --> 00:23:50.076 I really want to make ethical shots and really want to give these people the best possible chance at the retrieve that they really want, which is 80 to 100 yards out from where they are. 00:23:50.076 --> 00:23:57.643 Anyway, I'm like the Zach Galifianakis, like mean, with all the math going on your head Like is it too? 00:23:57.682 --> 00:24:06.518 far Is that a calculus, yeah, but it's so much fun, so different over there and over here. 00:24:07.232 --> 00:24:11.290 It's too much of an unburdened scotch because otherwise that trip would be like even more iconic. 00:24:12.711 --> 00:24:14.478 I am going to Scotland. 00:24:14.478 --> 00:24:18.042 That's where the trial that I'm going to shoot is being hosted. 00:24:18.042 --> 00:24:20.692 And the guy, Texan, said, hope you like whiskey? 00:24:20.692 --> 00:24:27.701 And he left the E out and I was like, yeah, I do like bourbon. 00:24:27.701 --> 00:24:30.095 I don't mind rice scotch is. 00:24:30.095 --> 00:24:31.959 Maybe it'll grow on me. 00:24:31.959 --> 00:24:33.320 You know people change. 00:24:33.801 --> 00:24:34.242 We all grow. 00:24:34.242 --> 00:24:36.876 I mean, everybody switches from you know. 00:24:37.839 --> 00:24:38.201 Mike's heart. 00:24:38.309 --> 00:24:39.835 Do you guys have Mike's heart eliminated in the US? 00:24:40.457 --> 00:24:44.199 Oh yeah, I mean most people smear off ice, other people Right. 00:24:44.869 --> 00:24:49.973 Everybody, everybody, everybody switches from smear off ice to like a cocktail at some point, so you'll grow out of bourbon to you. 00:24:52.955 --> 00:24:53.175 I've got. 00:24:53.175 --> 00:24:54.140 It's still summertime here. 00:24:54.140 --> 00:24:55.476 I'm going to tequila kick right now. 00:24:55.476 --> 00:24:56.934 We can go down that trail. 00:24:56.934 --> 00:24:59.015 Later I've got a funny Mike's heart story for you. 00:24:59.015 --> 00:25:00.380 But that's an all fair story. 00:25:00.380 --> 00:25:03.759 It's actually Mike's harder, which is available in stores here. 00:25:04.642 --> 00:25:05.545 Like unbearable. 00:25:05.545 --> 00:25:06.909 That's the most yeah. 00:25:08.654 --> 00:25:26.932 No, on the topic just before we move on from the, from the hunting with the dog and how fulfilling it is right, like, um, and also kind of just an anecdote around trainability, as as, like a normal person or a mom would be like a you know she would have less, she would. 00:25:26.932 --> 00:25:32.233 I mean, she had, like the most uphill of battles, right, getting a dog not hunting. 00:25:32.233 --> 00:25:33.096 So she doesn't even know. 00:25:33.096 --> 00:25:39.111 When it's like, oh, like, do some hand signals and see where the dog goes, she's like why, you know? 00:25:39.111 --> 00:25:41.720 Like why, why is he marking three things at once? 00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:42.814 Like what's the point of this? 00:25:42.814 --> 00:25:45.196 Like she's didn't get a lot of it. 00:25:45.950 --> 00:26:02.281 So you know, with with that, and then with us being, like I mentioned right off the hop, always slightly unprepared for hunting season, um, we show up and realize that we've never actually trained the dog with, uh, with a bird before. 00:26:02.281 --> 00:26:05.095 Right, like we, we, we couldn't. 00:26:05.095 --> 00:26:06.900 Just we live in an archery only zone. 00:26:06.900 --> 00:26:16.721 Um, so like I'm not really going to go shoot a golden eye with my bow To let the dog with like that sort of, you know, kind of an ethical barrier for me. 00:26:17.430 --> 00:26:36.502 And then you know it was like early in the season and nothing was kind of around to go, so like we didn't I we didn't, the dog had never picked up a bird in training so we were hunting with um, our mutual friend Luke Clark, and I was like hey, like leave a snow goose out for us to like toss around when we get there. 00:26:36.502 --> 00:26:42.830 And we get there in the middle of the night and you know, you put the snow on like the barbecue or whatever, so that the farm dogs will get. 00:26:42.830 --> 00:26:53.075 So I get this bird out and toss it and the dogs just like goes and looks at it, sniffs it, and then kind of backs off and I'm like, oh no, but this is, this is going to be so bad. 00:26:53.075 --> 00:27:09.563 And so like I'm a touch, you know, and and and trying to get them to pick it up, and like he won't, and so like there's a really funny dynamic with this dog where you know, I've worked with it too and I have the benefit of not having to offer everyday correction. 00:27:09.563 --> 00:27:21.301 So when I come to interact with the dog, like I am firm and unyielding in my requests and mom is, you know, she says the dogs a lot like I am and it just is worn her out. 00:27:21.529 --> 00:27:40.571 You know there's there's a, there's some late onset leniency, uh, where some of the stuff like so if I

say he'll like the dog, clips to my leg and when mom says he'll, he kind of looks and sees if she has any like large objects to brandish, and if not, then he sort of keeps cruising around it like in the periphery, but never like exactly. 00:27:40.571 --> 00:27:43.038 He refuses to give her exactly what she wants. 00:27:43.038 --> 00:27:49.316 So I'm saying you touch it up, whatever, and trying all the things trying to get them to hold it, and like he will not do it. 00:27:49.316 --> 00:27:58.739 And so mom just grabs a goose and then just hold it slightly out of his reach, like it's something that that she has that he can't have, you know. 00:27:58.739 --> 00:28:04.561 And so all of a sudden he starts jumping at it and like this is 100% out of the playbook, right? 00:28:04.561 --> 00:28:10.633 Like I guarantee you that it's not a cornerstone episode that has, like here's how to use, you know, bad habits. 00:28:11.173 --> 00:28:11.776 Like, keep away. 00:28:12.417 --> 00:28:12.638 Right. 00:28:12.638 --> 00:28:20.103 But basically she played keep away with that dude and then through the goose out man, he picked it up and the and we're on. 00:28:20.103 --> 00:28:28.795 So the next morning we go up and again we're not, you know, being kennel adjacent, not really trusting other dogs to sort of play with. 00:28:28.795 --> 00:28:35.237 A lot of time we have not done or had the opportunity to sort of teach the dog to honor Right. 00:28:35.237 --> 00:28:45.660 So when there's no other retriever that wants to go retrieve something, you kind of do it yourself, maybe with denial, but it never done, it never taught the dog to honor. 00:28:46.630 --> 00:28:48.877 So we get out there, boom, boom. 00:28:48.877 --> 00:28:55.738 First of all the dog doesn't break, doesn't get scared of the gunshots which I was a little worried about just cause it was like in this big metal blind. 00:28:55.738 --> 00:29:04.893 He's buzzing, you know, and we send them and he's kind of like again, all of a sudden it's not the exact same goose and he's still uncertain. 00:29:04.893 --> 00:29:08.280 But this other dog goes and bolts for this. 00:29:08.280 --> 00:29:13.560 This bird and forges like oh, you know, whatever he wants I'm going to get. 00:29:13.560 --> 00:29:18.580 And so he's got an absolute afterburners and he just roasted this poor dog. 00:29:18.580 --> 00:29:26.295 This like five or six year old, like very, very seasoned, very good ladder door and forges, just goes, bam like rolls up. 00:29:26.295 --> 00:29:31.336 You know one of those like tumbling pickups comes and brings it back and from then on it was just like a click. 00:29:31.570 --> 00:30:09.373 He was like, okay, I get what I'm supposed to do and watching that process of learning from like day one didn't pick up a bird to day four had picked up probably 200 because we're beating on snow geese, picks up a band of them, and then even went on a blind, uh, crippled big honker, like you know big, you know the, the,

the thick boy, and that thing went and he went like full linebacker on it, you know, far outside of our ability to suggest any of his behaviors, and he smacked that thing and it was one of those geese that you know. 00:30:09.373 --> 00:30:16.396 On the way back he's on his two front legs, yep, you know kind of just had to have the two at the back kind of counter balancing it. 00:30:16.396 --> 00:30:19.105 But yeah, like unbelievable it's. 00:30:19.105 --> 00:30:19.547 It's it. 00:30:19.547 --> 00:30:25.291 I, I grew up without dogs, I guided without dogs. 00:30:25.291 --> 00:30:28.615 I found them to be before meeting you. 00:30:28.615 --> 00:30:31.374 I found them to be often a nuisance, a distraction. 00:30:32.266 --> 00:30:35.695 Uh everybody would sit there and be like, oh, it's all about the dog. 00:30:35.695 --> 00:30:37.336 And I'm like that is some bullshit. 00:30:37.336 --> 00:30:47.019 Man Like you're out here just turning these birds inside out and trying to put the dog in use Um, and I genuinely thought it was pretty dumb, but it is. 00:30:47.019 --> 00:30:48.202 It is so real. 00:30:48.625 --> 00:30:48.744 Yeah. 00:30:48.904 --> 00:30:55.909 Like I, I have, uh it's, it's like my major motivator going into the fall beyond. 00:30:55.909 --> 00:31:01.271 You know El Cunning, spending time with my wife, which is that's kind of like our, our annual reset. 00:31:01.271 --> 00:31:12.717 You know, getting out of the mountains, that's super important to us, but second to that, you know, getting out with forces falls is top priority because there's just it's, it's completely changes again. 00:31:13.077 --> 00:31:16.625 Yeah, so officially I want you to get out with them, because it's always the best photos I get. 00:31:19.154 --> 00:31:21.444 Actually, do you have the album of the ones where you sent me the ones? 00:31:22.147 --> 00:31:23.855 If you have a guys haven't seen the rock house? 00:31:23.855 --> 00:31:27.505 Uh, the spot they just did for Orvis for their dog bed. 00:31:27.505 --> 00:31:28.704 It's truly unbelievable. 00:31:28.704 --> 00:31:30.730 But yeah, I got the album photos from that. 00:31:30.730 --> 00:31:31.413 I texted you. 00:31:31.413 --> 00:31:32.356 I was like, yeah, I need that one. 00:31:32.356 --> 00:31:34.957 Even his puppy shots in the mountains. 00:31:34.957 --> 00:31:40.144 He was in freezing cold water, then just chilling, hanging out with your mom, those I still post those shots every now and again. 00:31:40.849 --> 00:31:42.464 He's a very photogenic dog, which is good. 00:31:42.464 --> 00:31:49.114 I have actually sent dogs home with buddies of mine who are photographers, who wound up being relatively ugly. 00:31:49.114 --> 00:31:58.214 Um, then I won't name any names, but I can think of one right now that might be one of the ugliest dogs we've ever produced, who belongs to a buddy of mine who's a phenomenal photographer that you know. 00:31:58.214 --> 00:32:00.585 Um, but recently we've had a good track record. 00:32:00.585 --> 00:32:16.904 Uh, one of one of Forge's half brothers is with Addison, who has gunner kennels, and it's his new dog that they've done a lot of advertising with and he is not just a stud but very much like Forge, like he's a handful, but he is an awesome dog and beautiful photogenic. 00:32:16.904 --> 00:32:20.384 So I sent him home and I was like, please don't be ugly, please don't grow up. 00:32:20.384 --> 00:32:22.749 You just never know, you know and he don't. 00:32:22.809 --> 00:32:31.094 And in Forge when he was younger kind of was like uh, he was very wrinkly like, he looked concerned all the time he did, he had that, he had that face. 00:32:32.911 --> 00:32:34.625 He grew into it, though he looks great yeah. 00:32:35.287 --> 00:32:49.009 But now I mean he's like, he's a I mean not to say I have a significant bias but it says he's the absolute apex, it's a prototype and from color to build, I mean he's not. 00:32:49.009 --> 00:32:52.224 He could, like you could argue that you'd want to be a bit bigger. 00:32:52.224 --> 00:32:55.444 He's 60, 67 pounds, 69 pounds, something like that. 00:32:56.009 --> 00:32:57.541 He's way bigger than than red Right. 00:32:58.469 --> 00:33:01.755 But I mean that's and and that's fine, like he's not hand sized. 00:33:01.755 --> 00:33:04.936 But if he was any bigger, mom wouldn't be able to control him at all, cause he yeah. 00:33:05.907 --> 00:33:06.250 And the other. 00:33:06.250 --> 00:33:14.260 The other part of that is a lot of the people down here hunting out of like boats and small stands in the woods and it's kind of nice to have that size. 00:33:14.260 --> 00:33:14.744 It just all varies. 00:33:14.744 --> 00:33:20.861 I got in this debate with someone recently about dog size and I was like it's really just as long as they're in within breed standard. 00:33:20.861 --> 00:33:25.265 It's just a matter of preference, cause there's there are pros and cons every way you look. 00:33:25.265 --> 00:33:27.451 I've got a new stud that I really love that. 00:33:27.451 --> 00:33:30.178 I've done this 12 days of Dovmus with Ozzie. 00:33:30.178 --> 00:33:31.704 He's a Hank size stud. 00:33:31.704 --> 00:33:33.653 I think he's 82 pounds right now. 00:33:33.653 --> 00:33:35.505 He is a force man. 00:33:35.505 --> 00:33:36.545 He's super fun. 00:33:36.545 --> 00:33:39.644 But I tell people like I know you like that, but that's not necessarily what you need. 00:33:39.644 --> 00:33:49.848 If you're like canoe hunting or if you're, even if you're sea duck hunting and you got to bend over and pick your dog up every time out of the tide and bring him back in the boat, you need a. 00:33:49.848 --> 00:33:51.734 You need a 50 pound female. 00:33:51.734 --> 00:33:54.785 You know anyway, all preference with that. 00:33:54.785 --> 00:33:56.594 You know you take. 00:33:56.855 --> 00:33:57.961 You took photos of four recently. 00:33:57.961 --> 00:33:58.505 They were really good. 00:33:58.505 --> 00:34:06.002

Someone not long ago posted the photo of of Harry, which is. 00:34:06.002 --> 00:34:10.244 That photo is like an iconic point in our relationship and friendship. 00:34:10.244 --> 00:34:23.735 Um, you had been, you had transitioned to rock house and I was coming back to Kansas to hunt again and, uh, if I recall, it was also really cold because you were wearing flip flops and it was like 20 something degrees. 00:34:23.735 --> 00:34:45.835 Remember that when I drove up that day and I left Mississippi and it had been like maybe 80 degrees and I got to Kansas and it was, you know, below 20, it was cold and we were, we were hunting a roost slash stage pond that was basically frozen solid but it had one hole out in the middle. 00:34:45.835 --> 00:34:46.420 Do you remember all that? 00:34:46.420 --> 00:34:50.344 Like we ended up taking chainsaws and cutting the corner out with marshland lyker? 00:34:50.344 --> 00:34:55.590 Um, but before we was, we were, we were, we were, we were, we were, we were we were, we were shot in the boat as a morning right. 00:34:55.710 --> 00:35:00.228 And then did that morning, yeah, and the morning we were waiting on the birds to leave the roost, we didn't want to bust them. 00:35:00.228 --> 00:35:11.715 And, uh, pretty late season and we found a cornfield and just set out some decoys and took some photos with some birds that you guys had shot the day before maybe. 00:35:11.715 --> 00:35:17.556 And I remember Harry ran into Matt with his uh, he had a camera. 00:35:17.556 --> 00:35:20.465 I don't even remember what it was, but Well, he was shooting me, what? 00:35:20.766 --> 00:35:42.235 what was cool about that photo is that I mean, Like we did this entire setup for that photo right, and I think this is a um, maybe a little bit of a niche sort of photographer's journey thing, but like, if you want to, like, a good photographer can capture beauty. 00:35:42.235 --> 00:35:45.628 A great photographer can create it. 00:35:46.585 --> 00:36:00.092 And somebody that's going to be able to come up with, you know, to make a sustained living in in the creative world generally speaking, is somebody that can, you know, con, conceptualize it and then go create it. 00:36:00.092 --> 00:36:15.815 So it's like one stage is find it in the scene, the next stage is created in the scene and then the final, the stage where you know at least currently I would consider myself to be is is having the vision to create the scene and then create the image within it. 00:36:15.815 --> 00:36:34.572 Right, and so obviously there's all kinds of different avenues that you can go down, but in our world, uh, working in sort of advertising and not having the luxury of, you know, like, if I'm shooting stuff for waterfowl, for example, we, we did, it went to work with Sikki Gears past year that'll um starting to trickle out. 00:36:34.572 --> 00:36:38.432 You know, we were not hunting 60 days to see what happened. 00:36:38.432 --> 00:36:55.056 Right, the first time that I ever had a photograph published by Sikki Gears was, you know, it was a photo I had from when I was guiding, as a catalog cover in 2011 and 2012 or whatever, and it was just like an absolutely banging sunset, slipped out, mud, flat, perfect reflection. 00:36:55.864 --> 00:36:59.155 You know, it was like an 11 out of 10. 00:36:59.155 --> 00:37:03.592 It was the best, the best sunset of the year and, of course, I had my camera because I was out every day. 00:37:03.592 --> 00:37:11.672 Now that challenge is different, because it's like we have a couple of days that it works for everybody that needs to be in the same place to be there. 00:37:11.672 --> 00:37:13.427 How do we make that work? 00:37:13.427 --> 00:37:25.597 And so that's what I love so much about that hairy photo is that you know, we we had some, some shots of Earl that were kind of a similar, vibe um, but it was within an existing hunt. 00:37:25.597 --> 00:37:29.914 But with this it was like we set it up and knew the exact shot we wanted. 00:37:29.914 --> 00:37:36.737 And Matt um, I think this was like pre, when we switched to like letting the cameras autofocus. 00:37:36.737 --> 00:37:37.889 I think he manually focused. 00:37:37.889 --> 00:37:39.092 It was a four and a half year. 00:37:39.664 --> 00:37:40.407 He was on the deck. 00:37:41.164 --> 00:37:43.532 I was lining up, the bird Barton was handling the dog. 00:37:43.532 --> 00:37:52.094 We built this whole decoy spread, built a lane in the decoys, yep, and at the crack of sunrise, bam, we send the dog. 00:37:52.094 --> 00:37:56.668 It's in the exact moment in the stride, with like just enough little ear flip to make it feel personal. 00:37:56.668 --> 00:37:59.795 The dog matches the sunrise, lift the shadows and like. 00:37:59.795 --> 00:38:09.634 Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the photograph that I use all the time when I'm making a case about like the, the occasional and unpredictable photo that changes the business. 00:38:10.304 --> 00:38:11.791 Without a doubt, it changed everything. 00:38:11.791 --> 00:38:18.911 That one and one more, which I'll get to, but that one changed everything online for us, and that's remember how often it got stolen. 00:38:18.911 --> 00:38:31.253 Just this is back in the day where you could just post a photo on Instagram and not give any credit and every time I logged on to social media, someone had posted that photo for something and I was like, hey, this belongs to us, this is not your photo. 00:38:31.253 --> 00:38:45.476 I remember leaving Kansas or headed to the next destination and you called me and I had to detour to meet you guys so that you could show me the photo on a laptop in person. 00:38:45.476 --> 00:38:48.693 After that that's the first time I met. 00:38:48.693 --> 00:38:50.119 What's the older gentleman? 00:38:50.119 --> 00:38:59.472 Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh man, I remember I drove a different route to meet y'all just so I could see this photo and I was like, yeah, that's a,

that's an unreal. 00:38:59.472 --> 00:39:02.652 He actually took a really good photo of Maggie carrying a mallard. 00:39:02.652 --> 00:39:08.134 That right before you guys left, you took a photo of her carrying a mallard over that pond. 00:39:08.134 --> 00:39:11.271 I have that photo framed as well. 00:39:11.271 --> 00:39:26.150 The one of Harry I have, just massive, but the one of Maggie I have framed and I kept that duck because it was a pretty special retrieve where she had to go through the ice water and up over that hill and I had not had a lot of retrieves like that, and that duck is mounted in here in the lodge. 00:39:26.150 --> 00:39:29.789 Oh cool, yeah, and Noah's first duck. 00:39:29.789 --> 00:39:30.827 Those are the two. 00:39:30.827 --> 00:39:34.572 I have two mallards I have I'm not a big taxidermy guy, but they're in here. 00:39:34.572 --> 00:39:36.728 Yeah, that was. 00:39:37.068 --> 00:39:51.577 And then that was the day that I learned that one in the other photo, which is of Earl those two occasions are the first times that I had not done anything like that. 00:39:51.577 --> 00:39:54.873 Like, oh well, we set this up and we're running the dog and taking pictures. 00:39:54.873 --> 00:40:07.657 And I know a lot of photographers that work with dog guys like me and most of them, I think, are generally pretty happy to work with me because I'll stand out there all day to get a good photo. 00:40:07.657 --> 00:40:10.110 Like, I don't care the conditions, I'll freeze to death. 00:40:10.110 --> 00:40:13.114 Well, I will freeze my hands off, we'll run the dog. 00:40:13.114 --> 00:40:18.047 The thing I'm pretty picky about is like, hey, the dog's getting tired or hey, the dog's getting cold. 00:40:18.047 --> 00:40:21.599 When you take a break, you and I have been in that situation dozens of times. 00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:25.313 Like, hey, we need to either switch dogs or take a break, but I'll stay out all day. 00:40:25.313 --> 00:40:36.112 It doesn't bother me at all, because I've seen the value to a business that capturing that like magical photo can do and I know that the only way that's going to happen is if we go out here and do it. 00:40:36.112 --> 00:40:39.614 And it was cold, it wasn't super fun, my hands were freezing. 00:40:40.025 --> 00:40:44.514 The other one is the day that we hunted right outside of Great Bend. 00:40:44.514 --> 00:40:47.085 You gave me a Sikha jacket. 00:40:47.085 --> 00:40:48.070 It was a year before that. 00:40:48.070 --> 00:40:49.751 You gave me a Sikha jacket to put on. 00:40:49.751 --> 00:40:54.911 I'd never seen one in person, so that would have been 2013. 00:40:54.911 --> 00:40:57.648 You were with Rockhouse. 00:40:57.648 --> 00:40:59.570 We were hunting with Box. 00:40:59.570 --> 00:41:02.445 It was like insight of Great Bend. 00:41:02.445 --> 00:41:10.769 I could take you right to the field and I've hunted there since then with a different guy and it was really slow. 00:41:10.769 --> 00:41:19.552 And

we got up and you took some pictures of Earl just launching off the the send and I never really thought twice about those photos. 00:41:19.552 --> 00:41:23.155 I think I had a pair of Sikha bibs on and a Delta waiting jacket. 00:41:23.155 --> 00:41:33.561 I was freezing cold because I had taken my layers off and you left and when you left, it snowed and we ended up pounding them Absolutely. 00:41:33.601 --> 00:41:34.485 I saw it get out there. 00:41:34.585 --> 00:41:35.215 I couldn't wear it. 00:41:35.985 --> 00:41:37.512 It was also December 17th. 00:41:37.512 --> 00:41:46.695 It was a one year after I met you and it was only a few days after my mom had passed away, because Bethany was like you booked this trip. 00:41:46.695 --> 00:41:49.519 You need to go hunt, just go alone, take your mind off of it. 00:41:49.519 --> 00:41:51.110 So I brought my buddy, montana, out there. 00:41:51.110 --> 00:41:57.777 Anyway, we pounded a seven man of Mallard Drakes and Pentel Drakes in the snow. 00:41:58.204 --> 00:42:06.096 Which is like again on the topic of amplifiers, right, like there's good hunts and then there's ones that stick and those big old doughy snowflakes. 00:42:06.096 --> 00:42:29.974 I think, the great juxtapositions of life is, like you, generally, the more it feels very good to have places to be and it generally leads to more surface area of luck and more of a rich experience, but like it always pays off not to have anywhere, you got to go because I had to go somewhere that day and I missed out on an absolute bang. 00:42:31.469 --> 00:42:32.233 I'll never forget it. 00:42:32.233 --> 00:42:35.891 We were driving home that day too, so we shot all those ducks and then drove home in that ice storm. 00:42:35.891 --> 00:42:51.474 But that photo I never thought much about that, one other than you took it and, fast forward from, honestly, only like a month later it would have been late January 2014. 00:42:51.474 --> 00:43:27.050 My uncle, who's a tactical nerd, sends me a selfie from Vegas at Shot Show and he goes hey, bro, I'm pretty sure this is you and it was the whole side booth of the Sitka set up at Shot Show, the sidewall of their booth, and I was like I texted you, you took a selfie with it and sent it to me and that honestly kicked off the relationship with Sitka gear, because a couple of those guys reached out, talked dogs and obviously still super tight with a lot of people there and love working with them. 00:43:27.224 --> 00:43:32.625 So that one changed a lot for me and I think you were kind of shocked. 00:43:32.625 --> 00:43:34.952 You were like, oh yeah, here it is, it's right here. 00:43:34.952 --> 00:43:49.135 I don't know if they just bought it or what, but and then that one, and then the picture of Harry, which I'll post along with this podcast is that one was truly special and that changed a lot and that really opened my eyes, like when people say you know how did you market to the Note Kennels? 00:43:49.135 --> 00:43:52.313 You know how did you guys do all the social media stuff so well? 00:43:52.313 --> 00:44:01.793 Man, a massive chunk of that was just befriending you and a couple other great photographers and recognizing the importance of having good photography. 00:44:01.793 --> 00:44:04.592 That's so much of it, of what worked for us. 00:44:05.608 --> 00:44:06.992 I mean it's a premium product, right. 00:44:06.992 --> 00:44:11.159 Like I think that you've seen this in real estate recently. 00:44:11.159 --> 00:44:18.092 I would say, like the listings used to be somebody walking around with a pointe shoot, but now it's like drone shots and people move it through. 00:44:18.092 --> 00:44:42.436 I think that people are understanding that like, just because it's not a, you know, a Coca-Cola commercial, if you're trying to sell something that's good or great, you know you want to look that way and I think that really, you know I don't want to take too much credit for sort of that movement or sort of that style of shooting or the work that we've done together. 00:44:42.436 --> 00:45:01.597 You know, obviously Lee Joseph has always had absolutely banging dog photos, but you know we built a I don't want to call it a formula, but we certainly established a set of best practices together that you can see are, like to this day, very pervasive in sort of the outdoor photography world. 00:45:01.597 --> 00:45:03.972 We did it around dogs and we've done it in a few other cases. 00:45:03.972 --> 00:45:19.514 That's something I'm really proud of, because it's harder and harder to differentiate, but we sort of had the vision and did the work at the time and it made a difference and I think, to your credit, with Sudden Oak and social media. 00:45:19.554 --> 00:45:25.355 You told people the truth right, like you were not afraid to be. 00:45:25.355 --> 00:45:30.130 I mean, there's not so much you can do about having all those horrendous tattoos on your body. 00:45:30.130 --> 00:45:54.851 But, aside from the questionable ink, you celebrate the fact that, whether it's wakeboarding or music or good food or whatever else you're into, I would say ahead of the curve on giving people access to who you really were and why they really they could connect with you and obviously it resonated right. 00:45:54.851 --> 00:46:21.434 I think that there's a challenge because you want to look enough of a certain way to be taken seriously, but I think that where the real visionary behavior was wasn't just letting people see it as it is, but see it through a beautiful lens, instead of trying to be just another guy who's just out here training my dogs. 00:46:21.434 --> 00:46:37.465 And because there's when you see it all the time right, there's a type of person that generally connects with doing this kind of thing and they're not always interested and, if nothing else, you've always been interested. 00:46:38.286 --> 00:46:48.193 Yeah, if nothing else, something that we're both quite guilty of, is

interesting to a fault, but yeah it's smoking if you got them, it works. 00:46:48.494 --> 00:46:49.317 Smoke them if you got them. 00:46:49.317 --> 00:46:51.268 Yeah, I want to get. 00:46:51.268 --> 00:47:10.525 I know we don't have a ton of time, but I do want to get into how we went from those photos and Southern Oak and Rockhouse being friends and there were several years there 2012, 13, 14, 15, and on really every year. 00:47:10.525 --> 00:47:24.396 It was like some absolute banger dropped of a photo from our time together or you guys being around, and my recollection is sometime in 2016, 15 maybe. 00:47:24.396 --> 00:47:29.793 You and I had a conversation and you had this idea to try to create like an app for dog owners. 00:47:29.793 --> 00:47:48.250 That was all inclusive and I remember we didn't even really talk a ton about training, but it was like everything like nutrition and vet, like recommendation, like how many shots should you get, and training drills, but also just like if you own a dog, you need this app so you can know everything you need to do, sort of thing. 00:47:48.250 --> 00:47:50.155 That you and I had that conversation. 00:47:50.864 --> 00:48:19.512 I had become friends with Keith and Josh and helped them in their early days and they had gotten into labs, gotten into training, met some frustrations that they've talked often about and I was trying to help them move the water around those rocks and they called and were like hey, we're doing this deal and we want to see if you're interested in partnering with us on, you know, teaching some training videos. 00:48:19.512 --> 00:48:22.248 And I was like I am very interested. 00:48:22.248 --> 00:48:48.097 But I got to include my buddy, aaron, because he had this idea and I think the only way we're really going to find success with this is if we have someone like him, matt Dustin Rockhouse, behind it with us, and so we sort of filmed training videos and started doing marketing content with you guys for the OG Cornerstone Gundog Academy in 2016. 00:48:48.097 --> 00:48:53.576 And then I want to say January of 17, you guys came to the house with everyone. 00:48:55.708 --> 00:48:57.635 Logan came, and that was a year of Logan Kilder first duck. 00:48:57.925 --> 00:49:00.599 Logan Kilder, first duck and we hunted at my place here. 00:49:00.599 --> 00:49:08.094 And then we hunted over on the Mississippi River with a client of ours and got that killer photo of Max with the sunrise behind that that's one. 00:49:08.094 --> 00:49:09.556 Another one that's like that's a banger. 00:49:09.556 --> 00:49:10.918 And now I'm crazy. 00:49:14.271 --> 00:49:16.836 I mean, I'll give myself a little quick photo digression there. 00:49:16.836 --> 00:49:21.074 The reason that that photo is possible is because the camera is underwater. 00:49:21.074 --> 00:49:26.076 Yes, it was in a housing, but everybody that gets a housing they're like oh, how do I get the water in the mix? 00:49:26.076 --> 00:49:26.646

How do I get this? 00:49:26.646 --> 00:49:34.353 You know, try and show the split level of the reality with waterfront hunting, like you don't want to split level because it's basically just din under there, you know. 00:49:34.353 --> 00:49:45.759 So I was, I think, in a dry suit, I'm not mistaken, a green dress, a brand new dry suit, underwater, shooting up at the dog. 00:49:45.759 --> 00:49:48.773 And that's what allows us tree tops to come in with that crazy sunrise. 00:49:48.773 --> 00:49:53.211 But it wasn't a direct light situation, so the dog's fur just absolutely pops. 00:49:53.211 --> 00:49:55.668 Yeah, yeah, that was a crazy. 00:49:55.668 --> 00:50:03.306 That was a really beautiful day and Logan started her streak that continues of just like picking up a shotgun out of the blue. 00:50:03.306 --> 00:50:04.833 That doesn't fit her. 00:50:04.833 --> 00:50:08.731 She's never dropped before and actually smashing mallards. 00:50:12.364 --> 00:50:26.835 We had so much fun on that on that trip and I still like I just moved offices and I have a big picture that was hanging in my last office and it's the one of all of my current dogs at that time lined up at the pond in my house. 00:50:26.835 --> 00:50:43.670 Almost every big photo that I have in this lodge is from that photo shoot, which was the original content creation for taking Cornerstone Gundog Academy to the world, which happened in April of 2017. 00:50:43.670 --> 00:50:46.650 We took a photo of a dog named Billy. 00:50:46.650 --> 00:50:53.472 That photo of his head became the logo, thanks to William, everything on that trip. 00:50:53.472 --> 00:51:00.251 So 2017 for those who are listening who are Cornerstone users, which is old and that's a lot of you it's Cornerstone podcast. 00:51:00.251 --> 00:51:09.648 I mean Aaron and the Rockhouse guys, all the stuff that drew in your attention to Cornerstone, especially in the very beginning. 00:51:09.648 --> 00:51:16.394 They created all that content for us, the logo, all of it, which was incredibly fun. 00:51:16.804 --> 00:51:26.188 I truly miss all the times of having you guys to my place, especially to the lodge in Ocalona where we would. 00:51:26.188 --> 00:51:28.034 I mean it was such a grind. 00:51:28.034 --> 00:51:30.492 People don't realize what goes into making. 00:51:30.492 --> 00:51:34.976 We have the video the Labrador the kind of spoof on planet Earth. 00:51:34.976 --> 00:51:42.534 If you haven't seen that, then I mean most of the planet has, according to the Facebook views, millions of views, like all of those things. 00:51:42.534 --> 00:51:49.409 I mean, it was so hot wearing tweed in that video and being out there shooting that I'm thinking this is ridiculous. 00:51:49.409 --> 00:51:51.552 That is one that I was proven wrong by you. 00:51:51.552 --> 00:51:53.690 I was like, okay, this was actually a great idea. 00:51:53.690 --> 00:52:11.135 But man, three, four, five days at my place, a few dozen dogs, canon cameras, shutter clicks like go to sleep, and you just hear the shutter clicks, just flying yeah. 00:52:11.905 --> 00:52:13.670 Well, I mean, that's the thing with the rapid fire is so important, right? 00:52:13.670 --> 00:52:19.302 Because even in that album that I sent you, we have one shot where the dog is. 00:52:19.302 --> 00:52:31.717 This is from this orbit spot that we just did, where the dog is perfectly positioned next to the horses, but whenever we're on top of the mountain you don't have there's not that perfect, flawless pose that he's in. 00:52:31.717 --> 00:52:33.710 He always looks a little skinnier than he really is. 00:52:33.710 --> 00:52:37.771 That's at 22 frames a second, yeah, Right. 00:52:37.771 --> 00:52:40.588 So the Colin who does all of our file management. 00:52:40.588 --> 00:52:52.972 I absolutely hated it because it's just I in some cases, 150 of the exact same photo, realistically, but one of them is going to change everything and what doesn't matter. 00:52:52.972 --> 00:53:03.471 I think that some of those shoots are super fun and it's cool to see what connects with people, Like remember Quinn on the PlaySport where Timed Ops? 00:53:03.471 --> 00:53:05.536 That was really connective. 00:53:05.536 --> 00:53:12.452 And then we did like a more elaborate version of the same thing and I don't think people really connected with it this way. 00:53:13.244 --> 00:53:17.208 We tried to do the one where it was like all the things right, like the food was feeding it. 00:53:17.208 --> 00:53:19.034 I mean, yeah, and it didn't really, it just didn't work. 00:53:19.034 --> 00:53:33.278 But man, all those shoots we spent you know all the behind the scenes cooking massive meals, walking into my lodge and being like how much money worth of equipment is plugged in in here Like everything's downloading. 00:53:33.278 --> 00:53:38.637 Matt set up shop and have a like a dump lab to put all the hard drives. 00:53:38.637 --> 00:53:40.509 You know, put all the stuff on hard drives. 00:53:40.509 --> 00:53:45.795 You know the pandemic, really, I think, squashed a lot of that. 00:53:45.795 --> 00:53:49.195 I hope to get back to it at some point. 00:53:49.195 --> 00:54:00.376 I've got a new lodge now which has got plenty of room for Matt to work and way more plugs and probably less mice than the old Oklahoma dilapidated barn. 00:54:02.347 --> 00:54:20.231 But man, those creating all of that and getting the brand image of Cornerstone which is there were a lot of Southern Oak dogs involved but the image was different Getting all of that out for the world to see and creating such fun, like I think I think a lot of the CGA stuff. 00:54:20.231 --> 00:54:40.112 We like the, the Labrador film and some of it like from sound engineering to you guys, color grading to the, william doing insane animation stuff, like we really pushed, pushed the limits of, or at least pushed into a new frontier of, what people were doing with dog stuff, and I'm really proud of every single

bit of it. 00:54:40.112 --> 00:54:56.351 And when I'm running social media stuff and I get to go into our smug account with CGA and you guys, I'm like dude, we, we, we have photos that would last years and years and years that will probably never even see the light of day, cause it's just so much stuff that we've created. 00:54:56.391 --> 00:55:01.097 Yeah, yeah, I mean I think that it's it's fun to. 00:55:01.097 --> 00:55:04.411 The thing that's so fun about what we get to do is it's like competitive art, right. 00:55:04.411 --> 00:55:08.454 So you make stuff but you see if it's good or not. 00:55:08.454 --> 00:55:15.989 You see, and I mean, obviously there's a there's a strong argument for arts, for art sake and do whatever makes you happy and what have you. 00:55:15.989 --> 00:55:18.335 But, like you know, that's not the world we're in. 00:55:19.025 --> 00:55:20.505 Like the Labrador, was it a good idea or a bad idea? 00:55:20.505 --> 00:55:23.056 You know we put a lot of work in that thing and it it worked. 00:55:23.056 --> 00:55:43.173 But me, me pretending to be David Attenborough and you dressed up and tweed Wink-in with some bourbon barrel watch that's one of my favorite pieces that you had, this, this classic like fancy and southern watch, and then, and yeah, the poorly kept lawn, like you still use that as a reference all the time. 00:55:43.173 --> 00:55:59.994 You know you never know where that stuff's going to come from because it, like we use that as a reference for like real work, you know, like not real work, but like going and recruiting new clients and developing relationships, because it's just, it's just good, you know, and it's fun and it and it takes an environment like that. 00:56:00.606 --> 00:56:00.686 And. 00:56:00.726 --> 00:56:09.650 I think that's like one of the joys of small business and entrepreneurship is like being able to roll the bones and it's not about like selling it into a client or having rounds and rounds of meetings. 00:56:09.650 --> 00:56:15.893 He's going to do it, yeah, and I think that like one. 00:56:15.893 --> 00:56:34.653 You know, I really enjoy that part and then also, you know, just really proud to be a part of the, the sort of the process of, of understanding what the product could be and what it you know, and what it has become, and really, just, you know, back to the original vision. 00:56:34.653 --> 00:56:53.112 It's an owner's manual, right, you get anything else in the world and most things are a lot simpler to operate than a, you know, a hunting retriever and and and knowing what to do and knowing where to turn and having a sense of pride that comes with. 00:56:53.333 --> 00:56:57.992 You know, and this has always been something that I've spoken about I know that there's a real split in the. 00:56:57.992 --> 00:57:02.052 You know, some people train the dogs themselves, some people send them to a trainer, some people do a bit of both. 00:57:02.052 --> 00:57:23.197 For me, there's an immense pride that we have in having done this on our own with Ford, right, the DIY, the piece of it, that's something that there's a connection there and a frustration there that, once resolved, just leads to this place of this place of pride that you know there's no other real way to do it. 00:57:23.197 --> 00:57:36.117 I think there's as thorough, the program is so thorough and you know it's, it's the classic, you know you text Barton a question and he's like you know that the answer is somewhere in cornerstone. 00:57:36.117 --> 00:57:43.858 Yeah, you can answer anything that I ask, any of the dumb questions with basically a link to a video. 00:57:44.425 --> 00:57:51.474 And that's and the smart question and that's pretty impressive, like there's nothing really that you can't answer with a piece of published curriculum. 00:57:51.554 --> 00:57:52.436 So it's all in there. 00:57:52.436 --> 00:57:57.556 I had a guy call me yesterday and I thought I had like proofed myself from this. 00:57:57.556 --> 00:58:00.173 I thought I had built enough fences. 00:58:00.173 --> 00:58:19.947 But a random phone number called and I happened to be like driving down the road and a great mood and I answered it and this guy was like hey man, I'm not going to say his name, but he said I just I called you because I reckon you're one of the best trainers out there and I was like I don't think that's true, but I'm happy, you know what do you need? 00:58:19.947 --> 00:58:29.067 I wanted to say how in the world to get my number, but he just said I'm thinking about taking my dog dove hunting tomorrow, and I'm not sure if I should. 00:58:29.067 --> 00:58:39.063 He started giving me details and so I gave him like a paragraph answer and I was like please, please, check out Cornerstone Gundog Academy. 00:58:39.063 --> 00:58:42.898 I've literally got an email series that's been going on for 11 days. 00:58:43.159 --> 00:58:46.896 12 days of dubbiness and I've answered this, so I somehow found my number. 00:58:46.896 --> 00:58:50.063 If you could also find the Cornerstone website and sign up for that. 00:58:50.063 --> 00:59:03.876 I think I've answered all these questions before, but that really was the that was the key for me was figuring out a way, because all the questions I got when I sent dogs home were the same the litter would go home and when the next 10 days. 00:59:03.876 --> 00:59:08.739 I'm getting questions about feeding, questions about treats, questions about keeping this thing quiet in the crate. 00:59:09.251 --> 00:59:11.693 Well, they're trying to create right Like. 00:59:11.693 --> 00:59:13.778 I don't think that people know that that's a thing. 00:59:14.431 --> 00:59:17.458 I get all these questions and then fast forward. 00:59:17.458 --> 00:59:23.735 You don't hear from them and then the puppy starts to lose teeth and then they start to get a mind of their own and they don't follow you around. 00:59:23.735 --> 00:59:26.056 I mean, everyone thinks they're eight

to 12 week old. 00:59:26.056 --> 00:59:27.541 Puppy is the next LeBron James? 00:59:27.541 --> 00:59:28.855 They're like I got a 100%. 00:59:30.010 --> 00:59:31.697 That's the craziest thing, right? 00:59:31.697 --> 00:59:33.733 It's like your puppy. 00:59:33.733 --> 00:59:43.177 You get home and you do a handful of things from the, from the, from the program, the Cornerstone program, and like, yeah, LeBron James is exactly it. 00:59:43.177 --> 00:59:45.817 It's like you look a certain way and he'll do whatever. 00:59:47.092 --> 00:59:47.574 It goes away. 00:59:48.556 --> 00:59:51.516 It goes away, and then you think that your dog is broken. 00:59:51.516 --> 00:59:52.679 Yeah, what? 00:59:52.699 --> 00:59:53.320 happened to this thing. 00:59:53.320 --> 00:59:54.552 That's when people send. 00:59:54.552 --> 00:59:56.972 That's when people send them they're going to send them back. 00:59:56.972 --> 00:59:58.998 That's when they call Right. 00:59:59.871 --> 01:00:08.041 Like I wonder what the answer to this, what your answer to this would be, when they turn that like eight months or nine months or whatever. 01:00:08.041 --> 01:00:14.659 Should you just stop training them until they like, because I don't think that it was actually worth it at all? 01:00:14.659 --> 01:00:23.050 Yeah, I think that it, like so much of life, is about momentum and the amount of opposite of fun. 01:00:23.851 --> 01:00:40.400 whatever you have torment strength strain, tribulation, whatever those, whatever the world that happened in, like the goal and in hopes of restoring you know what this basically like fuzzy fetus of a puppy was able to masterfully do. 01:00:40.400 --> 01:00:44.898 Yeah, now you have this full, full size dog and he just like won't. 01:00:44.898 --> 01:00:57.293 And I think that like, at least from my you know one off experience like if I was at that place again I would just be like, all right, we're going to go for walks, yeah, and that's it. 01:00:57.293 --> 01:01:11.672 And then we'll see, we'll check in and do like a training session every month or two to see if you have like a, because all of a sudden, like you realize, even still, you know forza, he's a, a zesty character, uh, to say the least. 01:01:11.672 --> 01:01:20.139 You know he's four, maybe not maybe five, but like you can see him, he knows exactly what to do in every situation. 01:01:20.139 --> 01:01:27.635 Like he is, he is, in my mind, basically a fully trained dog, but like he will just continue sometimes to not do it because he doesn't feel like it. 01:01:28.097 --> 01:01:28.277 Yeah. 01:01:29.692 --> 01:01:31.717 I didn't know that he knew that stuff at that time. 01:01:31.717 --> 01:01:34.538 So I thought it's like, oh, he doesn't get it. 01:01:34.538 --> 01:01:35.835 You know how do I repackage this? 01:01:35.835 --> 01:01:37.152 It's like there's no repackaging it. 01:01:37.152 --> 01:01:38.577 Take six months off. 01:01:38.577 --> 01:01:51.177 Yeah, do you literally anything else

with your time and then come back to it when you have a same creature, because otherwise you're going to, like man, you run out of steam real quick and so, yeah, I, uh, I could. 01:01:51.177 --> 01:01:56.556 I totally hear you, and it's a tough one to answer right, because you can't just be like man, what do I do? 01:01:56.556 --> 01:01:57.840 Quit, you should quit. 01:01:59.130 --> 01:02:02.775 Well, they're all different too and some are not like that. 01:02:02.775 --> 01:02:18.465 But when they are like that, I do think it is better to slow down, don't push ahead and try to set up anything you can where the only option is success, because when they frustrate you like that you get mad. 01:02:18.465 --> 01:02:23.494 Then that's when relationship damage occurs with a dog, and so much easier to we've. 01:02:23.494 --> 01:02:37.500 I just had this conversation with a bunch of people because I think that some lineages of dogs mature a lot slower than some training programs allow for, and so the dogs wind up getting a bad rap and they're like well, this dog's just not nice. 01:02:37.500 --> 01:02:40.958 Well, no, it's going to be nice at 12, 13, 14 months. 01:02:40.958 --> 01:02:53.474 It's just got to grow out of this phase and, historically speaking, the dogs that I'm talking about are raised in an environment where very little is expected of them until they're 11, 12, 13 months old. 01:02:53.474 --> 01:02:55.697 So they're genetically. 01:02:55.697 --> 01:03:05.436 There hasn't been a lot of proof in that line of I can get my eight, nine, 10 month old to run straight line for 150 yards and actually bring the dummy back, not play, keep away or whatever. 01:03:05.436 --> 01:03:08.657 So, yeah, I think it's better to just take a break. 01:03:08.657 --> 01:03:09.791 Focus on the stuff you know. 01:03:09.791 --> 01:03:12.817 You can get a win on, develop the relationship. 01:03:12.817 --> 01:03:17.918 You know, hold your standards there, like if you the dog knows to heal and make it heal, but you can do that with a lead. 01:03:17.918 --> 01:03:19.052 You got to reinforce stuff. 01:03:19.052 --> 01:03:23.556 So anyway, yeah, it's. 01:03:23.556 --> 01:03:26.144 It's very frustrating at that point but it is. 01:03:26.144 --> 01:03:28.373 It is fulfilling to take that journey. 01:03:28.789 --> 01:03:35.722 I I mean we could probably talk for like three more hours, but I we have to hear one story. 01:03:35.722 --> 01:03:37.153 People have to hear one story. 01:03:37.153 --> 01:03:40.338 I could choose their dozens and dozens of stories. 01:03:40.338 --> 01:03:43.719 I actually the other day thought about I was cleaning a gun and it was resting. 01:03:43.719 --> 01:03:53.521 I thought about when we filmed the Beretta film and I won't name her, but a person there we were trying to get shots like the one we got on the duck hunt, where the water's banging off the gun. 01:03:53.521 --> 01:03:55.221 I mean that's, that's like a created thing. 01:03:55.221 --> 01:03:56.309 It looks so awesome. 01:03:56.309 --> 01:04:01.902 It makes you feel like water, like waterfowl is, so it's wet and kind of violent sometimes. 01:04:02.030 --> 01:04:05.298 Anyway, that girl like just straight put the gun all the way underwater. 01:04:05.298 --> 01:04:06.490 Do you remember that I? 01:04:06.510 --> 01:04:08.597 was like I'm going to fix it up and was about to fire it. 01:04:08.597 --> 01:04:10.001 Yeah, I thought about that that story. 01:04:10.369 --> 01:04:11.213 Thankfully no one was harmed. 01:04:11.213 --> 01:04:25.313 There are a lot of stories, but there's one story that I'm like familiar with, but always it's still in my mind almost unbelievable, and it's the bear story. 01:04:25.313 --> 01:04:40.360 So your dog is fully trained, he's an awesome dog, he's your mom's dog and somewhat yours I mean you guys live close and she's put in some unbelievable work. 01:04:40.360 --> 01:04:58.474 And what you mentioned about the goose thing, by the way, like your first hunt with him was very similar to my first hunt with Nellie, where there were definitely some things that, like you had done a lot of training, but there were some things that you took a massive risk there on, like gunfire, other dogs, all that Like even you admitted it. 01:04:58.474 --> 01:05:01.532 But it went well because he's a great dog, right, and it might have. 01:05:01.532 --> 01:05:02.576 It could have been that he didn't. 01:05:02.576 --> 01:05:06.460 It could have been that he went and ripped birds out of the other dog's mouth and chewed birds up the pieces in the field. 01:05:06.460 --> 01:05:09.101 You know like it can go south if you're not careful. 01:05:09.101 --> 01:05:18.876 But him picking the bird up from your mom is probably very closely related to the way he minds you and the difference in how he minds your mom. 01:05:18.876 --> 01:05:24.853 They have a completely different relationship than you, than you have with him and it's we could. 01:05:24.853 --> 01:05:28.150 I could do a whole podcast just on that, on what that relationship looks like. 01:05:28.322 --> 01:05:34.952 I have a new female in the kennel right now that she likes me, but she doesn't know me very well. 01:05:34.952 --> 01:05:41.699 But my son, noah, has been going out there every night without me even knowing it and throwing dummies for her, like just training her. 01:05:41.699 --> 01:05:44.291 He didn't even tell me and so I can. 01:05:44.291 --> 01:05:47.300 I have the hardest time getting her back in the kennel. 01:05:47.300 --> 01:05:52.353 Like when it's time to go in the kennel she's like hiding behind a tree, literally like looking out from the side. 01:05:52.353 --> 01:05:57.000 And Noah went and aired the dogs last night and I was like hey, did Nora get back in the kennel? 01:05:57.000 --> 01:05:58.840 And he was like, oh yeah, she goes right back in. 01:05:58.840 --> 01:05:59.407 So I watched him. 01:05:59.407 --> 01:06:00.934 I was like go let her out and

put her back in. 01:06:00.934 --> 01:06:03.255 She literally just runs right over with him and hops right back. 01:06:03.255 --> 01:06:07.414 But it's all relationship, it's because he spent the time and that's just a quick example. 01:06:07.414 --> 01:06:18.081 Your mom and Forge have a very interesting relationship and I would love for you to just tell briefly the story, start to finish, of Forge and the bear. 01:06:19.083 --> 01:06:20.210 Yeah, so this is. 01:06:20.210 --> 01:06:26.456 This was one of the most intense moments of my life and I was like a thousand miles away. 01:06:26.456 --> 01:06:29.179 So we live in the mountains. 01:06:29.179 --> 01:06:41.036 If you've heard of Banff National Park, it's similar, probably in esteem, to like a Yellowstone, more mountainous, and we live essentially right near the border. 01:06:41.036 --> 01:07:03.259 And so what that means is that, you know, we've carved out a bit of a community in what was once and remains a very wild place the Yukon to Yellowstone corridor, which is a conservation initiative of unbroken wild land that runs from Yellowstone up north to the Yukon and onto the North Pole. 01:07:03.318 --> 01:07:08.277 Basically, it's a half mile from my house, runs right through here. 01:07:08.277 --> 01:07:24.237 What that means is that there's some wildlife around, and a couple of years ago I guess it would have been last year there was a ton of snow which basically was like 140% snowpack. 01:07:24.237 --> 01:07:36.557 I know this sounds super irrelevant, but what it means when there's that much snow is that when the bears come out of hibernation, they usually go up into the alpine and eat grass, to sort of push out there what's called the plug. 01:07:36.557 --> 01:07:44.833 They get really constipated after a winter of hibernation, and so what happens is that when they normally go high to eat grass and instead of going high to get grass. 01:07:44.833 --> 01:07:48.315 The only place that there's grass is down low on the valley floor, which is where all the people live. 01:07:48.315 --> 01:07:54.849 So there were a a ton of human bear encounters. 01:07:55.059 --> 01:08:01.344 An important caveat to this is that you're not supposed to have dogs off leash anywhere in this sort of general zone. 01:08:01.344 --> 01:08:05.864 Everyone does, my mother's certainly included. 01:08:05.864 --> 01:08:13.842 Granted forges, recall, is about a thousand billion times better than most of the general neighborhood pounds, anyway. 01:08:13.842 --> 01:08:17.884 So mom goes for a walk and I'm talking when she goes for a walk. 01:08:17.884 --> 01:08:20.430 This isn't like some crazy hike like she will so often do. 01:08:20.430 --> 01:08:29.328 This is 200 yards from my house and she's walking along the river and is minding her foot. 01:08:29.328 --> 01:08:56.686 She's got her hip replaced so she's like generally fairly she's mindful of her footing and so it's kind of this like brushy spot that's right next to the river and she looks up and in her words, two car lengths ahead of her was a grizzly bear, which I think we found the bear afterwards and, like I'm here to tell you there's grizzly bears as a species and then there's like a mature boar grizzly bear. 01:08:57.840 --> 01:08:59.646 And like it's a whole different unit. 01:08:59.646 --> 01:09:03.448 Right, this thing's 800 plus pounds probably. 01:09:03.448 --> 01:09:06.985 And so here's this giant grizzly bear. 01:09:06.985 --> 01:09:28.911 So the reason you're not allowed to walk dogs off leash in sort of wildlife countries, because basically what happens is the dogs go and play or fight or whatever with the animal, then they run and when they flee the bear chases them back, or the mountain lion or whatever, and then the dog hides with the person and everybody dies. 01:09:28.911 --> 01:09:30.534 Basically, bear comes. 01:09:30.715 --> 01:09:31.457 That sounds likely. 01:09:31.998 --> 01:09:33.826 That right Because like, oh, what do I do? 01:09:33.826 --> 01:09:36.527 Like say you know mom's over there and she's sick. 01:09:36.527 --> 01:09:49.893 And so in every scenario that Forge has ever been in like a dog park or you know with just out and around, if there's a bigger sort of mean dog, he'll always come back and hide between mom's legs. 01:09:49.893 --> 01:10:04.064 When he's done playing he comes back and hides between her legs and here's, mom comes around a corner 800 plus pound grizzly bear and Forge is in between her and the bear, right at the mom. 01:10:04.064 --> 01:10:06.992 She doesn't call him, you know, so he doesn't come back. 01:10:06.992 --> 01:10:25.027 But Forge locks in, goes nose to nose with this grizzly bear and mom says she just started hearing barking and you know you don't hear bears roar a lot, but apparently bear roars back, so bear roars, dog barks again, and so again with it. 01:10:25.108 --> 01:10:35.981 I give mom a ton of credit for this, which she had the presence of mind to just be quiet and back away, sort of remove herself to the scene, which is obviously pretty emotionally difficult because it means essentially that she's abandoning her dog to get killed. 01:10:35.981 --> 01:10:45.646 And so as she steps back and walks away, she sees the bear wind up and take a swing at Forge and then there's just fur and hair and whatever. 01:10:45.646 --> 01:10:50.109 And she backs away and the dog is gone and the bear is gone. 01:10:50.109 --> 01:10:56.072 And so she calls me and I was at the coast and she's telling the story and I'm like, where's the dog? 01:10:56.072 --> 01:10:57.121 She's like, I don't know. 01:10:57.121 --> 01:10:57.944 You know she breaks down. 01:10:57.944 --> 01:10:59.488 I don't know, I don't know. 01:10:59.488 --> 01:11:04.427 I'm like, oh, this is bad, right, like Forge fights, grizzly bear, like bad plan. 01:11:04.427 --> 01:11:08.048 I was a weight class, right. 01:11:08.048 --> 01:11:13.608 Yeah, I'm way out of the weight class right, but to the

dog's credit, he's pretty twitched up. 01:11:15.425 --> 01:11:43.453 And after I ended up calling two friends, one that I knew had the balls to go into the bush and look for a dog carcass with bear, and another who like, because the person that had the sort of the courage to go searching and the person who was who I call to go offer them emotional support, like those aren't overlapping skill sets, like you go wandering into like grizzly land, you know, and with an ambious shoulder to cry on. 01:11:43.453 --> 01:11:48.922 So you know, the one body's like, oh yeah, he's probably we're just looking for pirates at this point, you know. 01:11:48.922 --> 01:11:51.922 And then the other guy oh, it's okay, money, like he's a fast runner. 01:11:51.922 --> 01:11:56.916 But basically, as we were able to, my friend, because I was gone. 01:11:56.916 --> 01:11:58.220 My buddies were able to decipher. 01:11:58.220 --> 01:12:05.744 They ended up finding four other grizzlies basically within within 500 yards of our house was crazy. 01:12:05.744 --> 01:12:14.810 He bears everywhere and then everybody's having new bear encounters the dog is gone no blood, no hair, no sight or sound of a, and so everybody's you know. 01:12:14.829 --> 01:12:15.739 Then word gets out. 01:12:15.739 --> 01:12:29.310 We live in a pretty tight net zone and everybody knows the dog from walking every day and so there's like 20 plus people out thin of the woods running and bumping grizzly bears into each other and eventually somebody throws a rock off of a oil drum. 01:12:29.310 --> 01:12:35.735 Looks like kind of out this, like old, old trash can out in the bush and for just like pops out of the bush. 01:12:35.735 --> 01:12:38.564 It's like what's up, I'm hanging out. 01:12:38.564 --> 01:12:47.349 Mom got him home and she said he didn't stop hunting for like two days, but yeah, it was four hours he was gone. 01:12:47.349 --> 01:12:48.743 He disappeared into the ether. 01:12:49.204 --> 01:13:31.528 And that is not a short and sweet version of the story, but essentially, like the crazy thing about it other than the part that he didn't die is that you know that dog's general habit every time that he was uncomfortable or scared was to go high between my mom's legs and for whatever reason, in his sort of understanding, of sort of his role in the relationship or his place in the world, or you know, maybe it was a fluke, but basically he knew that this time was different and he basically got in that bear's face and then bolted in the opposite direction and when we saw the tracks he took that thing away from mom and then somehow gave it the slip, which sounds like it's easier than it is. 01:13:31.600 --> 01:13:39.689 I mean, bears are fast, fast, like yeah, they're fast and yeah, and he gave it the slip and I mean he came back four hours later. 01:13:39.689 --> 01:13:43.451 So who knows, who knows where he went in between or how long the chase ensued. 01:13:43.451 --> 01:13:50.212 But yeah, there's always a bit of a there's, there's a, they have a special relationship. 01:13:50.212 --> 01:13:57.485 But to think that that dog could very easily have come back to her, and then, you know, only really the worst could have happened at that point. 01:13:57.485 --> 01:14:06.817 But he took it upon himself to take the bear away and sort of a moment of self-sacrifice is that it hits pretty hard. 01:14:07.177 --> 01:14:08.502 Yeah, I love that story, long story. 01:14:08.502 --> 01:14:09.466 I told it in a long way. 01:14:09.466 --> 01:14:10.181 No, it was. 01:14:10.181 --> 01:14:11.563 It was good, it's worth hearing. 01:14:11.563 --> 01:14:14.217 I love the story and hearing it from you from the first time. 01:14:14.217 --> 01:14:23.606 Then I heard it from your mom and then you know her version is all the facts are the same, but she's definitely heightened emotionally when she's telling me he's saved my life. 01:14:23.606 --> 01:14:25.731 You know it's, it's. 01:14:25.731 --> 01:14:32.944 It's an unreal story that people who live in Mississippi have a tough time, even like if bears are around the village. 01:14:32.944 --> 01:14:40.451 You know other than the only thing we have similar to that is when there's like 17 tornadoes that touch down within a 10 mile radius. 01:14:40.451 --> 01:14:42.787 You know we don't, we don't deal with bears or anything like that. 01:14:42.787 --> 01:14:49.212 So it's an incredible one and that's an awesome, awesome way to end it. 01:14:49.359 --> 01:14:54.711 We could go on forever for people listening and you want to check out some of Aaron's work. 01:14:54.711 --> 01:14:56.402 He's on social media. 01:14:56.402 --> 01:14:58.588 Rock House Motion is on social media. 01:14:58.588 --> 01:15:01.809 Definitely check out the dog bed video they did for Orvis. 01:15:01.809 --> 01:15:02.543 It's pretty cool. 01:15:02.543 --> 01:15:09.152 If you're on YouTube or wherever else, highly recommend checking out a student of the wild. 01:15:09.152 --> 01:15:19.064 There are a lot of films that you guys have done that are awesome, but to me, that one, I think, best encapsulates what encapsulates what Rock House Motion is all about and what your life is all about. 01:15:19.064 --> 01:15:26.432 And yeah, we'll have to do some more podcasts and cover some more grounds, but we've we've reached way longer. 01:15:26.432 --> 01:15:33.971 I told you we didn't do Joe Rogan times and we're we're like about to cross into the Rogan threshold of a time limit on podcasts here. 01:15:34.501 --> 01:15:40.065 So I've got to drop like the, the wow, yeah, so like going to the Owen Wilson world. 01:15:40.447 --> 01:15:44.630 Yeah, so yeah, enjoyed it. 01:15:44.630 --> 01:15:46.125 You guys check out Rock House. 01:15:46.125 --> 01:15:52.109 Always appreciate your friendship, bud, and we'll we'll chat some more with everybody here soon. 01:15:53.221 --> 01:15:54.185 Thanks for having me. 01:15:54.185 --> 01:16:05.345 Okay, see you.