رونوشت کامل libby trickett on processing a silver medal, retiring twice and being a mother

just because you did it it was just kind of second nature and you were just at peace with it. 00:03:21 Speaker 1: I think I spent a lot of time in the water not just in like lessons or in squad or anything like that but so like you know obviously in Townsville it's so hot you just want to be in water all of the time And I spent so much time in just our backyard pool, just doing duck dives and somersaults and handstands and pretending to be a mermaid. And I feel like that's probably where that real comfort level started. But it was funny because when I was, I would have been really young, like I would have been about four when I joined my first club. And I have to like preface that, like I'm the youngest of four kids and I was being an absolute punish apparently to my mom, not being able to race. So they finally let me race when I was four. And as soon as I just had my very first club night race, I just loved the idea of seeing how fast my body could go through the water. Like I just immediately fell in love with that idea that I could go from one place to another in the water as fast as I could. And apparently I was much easier to deal with after having a race. So I think, yeah, I think that real comfort level just came through that play, you know, through that, just that feeling of being supported in the water, the kind of the quiet as well, just the hearing, like all you could hear is bubbles and the water rushing past your ears. I just always felt so at home. 00:04:56 Speaker 2: There. 00:04:58 Speaker 3: What was the process like when you started to realize that you were actually quite talented in the pool and kind of moving into your teenage years where I imagine training was intense and early and it changed from being about play and enjoyment to probably being quite serious what you were trying to achieve? 00:05:17 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:05:17 Speaker 1: I mean, it's interesting because like, as I said, like I hated training. I was such a bludger for so long. And, you know, I kind of got to a certain level on a natural ability. So, you know, 7, 8, 9, 10 years old, I was making state titles and, you know, getting to go and compete at the state champs. You know, I made the Pacific School Games in the Queensland team when I was like 10 or 11. you know, I had a certain amount of just natural ability, but it became very clear, probably between the ages of 10 and 15 of who started training really intensely and who didn't. And it's funny because, you know, you think about it now, I have my oldest daughter is a similar age to that now. And you can start to see it again, playing out in her cohort of, of, or young swimmers or young people who play sport, that there is starting to become that divide between the kids who are already starting to be really intense about it. Anyway, I didn't start training hard at all until I turned 14. And the reason that that happened is because I was able to get through with a certain amount of talent and I was making finals. never winning, but always making finals. And when I was 14, I missed out on all finals at States. And that was the first year since I was eight that I hadn't actually made it through. So I was devastated. Like I was just so unbelievably sad that I had missed out on the finals because I think I knew that I was capable of more. Like I knew that I had more in me than what I was showing at that stage and it was funny I always tell this story but my mom told me at that point because she hated seeing me very upset she's like why don't you just quit swimming we'll take up something else we'll do netball or you know do another sport because I hate seeing you so sad about this outcome and in a very petulant annoying 14 year old way I was like, don't you dare say that to me ever again. And that was kind of the real very first moment where I started to commit a little bit. And, you know, when I say commit, I literally mean that I was doing four sessions a week. And in those sessions, instead of skipping laps and going off to the toilet, I used to say that I was going to the toilet in inverted commas and then go and have a 15 minute shower. I used to sit on the end and like pretend that I needed to fix my goggles. I used to like always put fins on in the main sets. Like I was, I was a massive bludger. Like I used to get called Libby the rock lobster because I would sit on the wall all the time. So like I was very well known in my squad as being a bludger. And so I just started, I didn't add any more sessions. I just started with actually doing more work within the sessions. And That was such a light bulb moment for me because within I think six months I'd made my first age nationals. Like I got age national qualifying time. And I was like, oh, if I actually train hard, I get to race faster. And that connection, like that light bulb for me that went off, I was like, wow, okay. Racing is my favorite thing in the whole world. And if I train a little bit harder, then I get to race faster. And that very slowly just started to turn the wheels in my career. And, you know, slowly over time, I added a couple more sessions. But I was still doing other sports all the way through high school. I was still, you know, trying to make the athletics team for the school and still trying out for tennis and doing all those sorts of things. But just in the background, just slowly committing more and more. to swimming and it was probably in my final year at school where I realized what I was aiming for because I think before then I didn't want to let myself know that I didn't know if I could say that to myself that that was a possibility of trying to make the Australian team but in grade 12 12, I made my first youth Australian team. And I think that was the real catalyst for me going, I think I can have a crack at this. And so I decided that instead of going straight to university, that I would take a gap year and I would just put everything in on the swimming kind of,

basket and, and I'm so glad that I did. It was absolutely terrifying. And, you know, you have all of those moments where you're like, Oh, what if I, you know, actually try really hard and I put everything into it. I changed squads at the time because I was like, I need accountability. I need someone to take ownership over my training and to expect more of me. And yeah, at that point, You're so afraid that if you do everything that you might come up short. But I knew that I couldn't not try. I wouldn't be able to live with myself to know that I hadn't given everything and seen what I was capable of. 00:11:06 Speaker 3: That fear piece I always find really interesting. Like if I reflect on my career, I think my fear was different in the sense of it came from, for me, it was kind of switching between sports, right? Like, am I, am I throwing this away to try for an Olympic dream in a different sport? But it's such an interesting thing. Where did that come from for you? Was it fear of like letting yourself down of people that were potentially watching you and supporting you? Like, where did that come from? 00:11:34 Speaker 1: It was probably a combination actually. I think there's two elements to it. There's a fear of failure, right, which everybody knows, but there's also fear of success. Like you can also be afraid that what does that mean if I am actually able to make the Australian team because then the expectations grow and then it becomes more pressure and more– effort and energy and you want to keep raising that bar and that's certainly how my brain works but I think initially when you're thinking in that moment of can I do this it's that I you know we talk about it being cringe The kids talk about it as though we're being cringe. And it's like if we try really hard, right, like it's embarrassing if we try really hard and then you come up short. Like I think so many people are afraid of that. And certainly that was absolutely playing in the back of my mind because there's no reason that some random little girl from Townsville should have become successful on the world stage of swimming. Like there's no reason I'm short. I don't have, I have small hands and small feet. Like I'm not particularly, I don't look particularly like a swimmer. Yes, I have the broad shoulders, but outside of that, like I don't look like someone who can go and compete with the best in the world, but I just, I loved it. And I knew that I would be so disappointed in myself. if I didn't have a crack and like really see if I was able to do it. Like I really would have struggled with that. And that was the kind of tipping point for me to go all in. 00:13:32 Speaker 3: 2003 was kind of your breakout year, Australian record in the 53. And then in that same year, first Aussie woman to go sub 25. 00:13:44 Speaker 2: How did it. 00:13:44 Speaker 3: Feel to have to lean into that? fear of success and kind of start working towards your first Olympic team? 00:13:52 Speaker 1: Uh, totally terrifying. And it's interesting because, you know, by that stage I, I had only been training full time for six months. 00:14:04 Speaker 2: Wow. 00:14:05 Speaker 1: Yeah. So, and you know, I mean, I'll harp on about it throughout all of our conversation, but I think people think that you need to specialize from the age of 12 or 13 to I literally only fully specialized, fully went full time when I left school. So I went to schoolies for two days. I was only allowed to go for two days. And then I came back and I just went all in on swimming. Like that was my main focus and my main intention. And so by the time trials came around and I ended up making the team and I got this opportunity, I just. 00:14:48 Speaker 1: You know, it becomes an obsession. Like it's, I want to keep improving, like the desire to see what my body is capable of just was so exciting and so motivating and inspiring to me that I just wanted to keep working on it. And, you know, I think, again, you would understand this, that you have to have something in your brain that says you're able to do it. There's something there. There's like, I want to call it arrogance, but I feel like arrogance is a negative term. But there is something in you that knows that you can potentially reach it. Yeah. 00:15:32 Speaker 3: I often describe mine as a stubbornness. Mine's a real stubbornness. I don't like not being good at things. So that's where I know that I'm always going to get there. 00:15:43 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Yeah. I also describe it as my bitch. 00:15:47 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:15:50 Speaker 1: Which is stubbornness in another way. Like I have a real bitch inside me. And I say that with positivity. Like I love that. Like strength. Yeah, it's just a real inner knowing, which is funny because I have absolutely suffered with self-esteem and, you know, negative self-talk and all of those things. But there is like a little fire, like a little spark inside me that knows that I'm capable of it. And yes, I think the nicest way is to describe it as a stubbornness, but it's an intensity that I experience that I know that I'm able to kind of execute on it. And so for me, when I had those results in 2003, it was great because I wasn't winning yet. Like I wasn't all the way at the top. So there was still something that was absolutely motivating me to keep pushing and to keep growing and to keep finding new systems and trying new things to then, you know, make my first Australian Olympic team. 00:16:58 Speaker 3: Athens 2004 was your first. What was the experience like to pull on the Australian uniform and know you'd achieved that dream that you dared to set? 00:17:10 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it was a... it was really weird experience. Not like nothing can prepare you for the Olympics. Um, it was so intense and I had just broken the world record at the trials. So I had a huge amount of pressure and expectation from externally, but also internally. Like I had, I expected that I was

going to win the hundred freestyle in Athens. And, It's funny now because you can reflect and, you know, I'm 41 and you can go, oh, I was very confident in myself. And you don't know what you don't know. And so I thought I was coping with the pressure and expectation quite well. I was 19. I felt six foot tall and bulletproof. I felt like it was mine to lose, essentially. And that's you know, in hindsight because, you know, Jodie Henry was 0.1 of a second behind me at trials. She had actually won trials. I broke the world record in the semifinal. And so I was coming into my very first Olympics, only my second Australian team, having never actually won the 100 metres freestyle at any level of competition from Brisbane metros all the way through to a major meet, right? Yeah, wow. I had never won at any level. So it's hilarious in hindsight now to kind of go, oh, well, I had this expectation that I would just, because I was the world record holder, that that's what happens is the world record holder wins. And, you know, there was a number of things that happened during that meet. You know, I think... my coach was still learning. I think we got my taper slightly wrong, but ultimately that feels like excuses. Like the crux of the matter is I didn't execute in the semifinal. I didn't go fast enough and I didn't make the final into the hundred freestyle. And there's been a couple of moments, I think in my career where, I don't know if you can relate, but there's been a couple of moments where you, just feel like the world is completely falling apart like the the floor is just falling out beneath you and that was certainly one of those moments for me I just it felt so confusing like I just it's like I couldn't comprehend what was going on and I was just so unbelievably disappointed in myself because I knew that I was capable of more, but I wasn't able to execute it in that moment. And so that was a really difficult thing to kind of go through and navigate. And It's funny because, again, through the beauty of hindsight, I'm so proud of so many elements of that experience. Like I didn't want to, but I did. I went and watched the final of the 100 Freestyle. For one, I needed to do that because I knew that was going to keep me motivated and But two, I knew it was the right thing to do as a teammate of Jodie who had made the final and had broken the world record in the semifinal. And that was like so unbelievably difficult because I was so, I mean, jealous is the only word I can describe. Like I wanted desperately to be there. I wanted desperately to have that opportunity and I didn't. But I'm really proud that even as a 19 year old, I was able to take myself out of that picture and do what, the right thing was. 00:21:06 Speaker 3: Um, which a lot of 19 year olds potentially wouldn't do. 00:21:10 Speaker 1: No. And, and I'm, I really try and give myself credit for that. Um, because I know that that's true. And I also wouldn't hold it against people if they did

it. Like, I think I would understand that feeling. That's certainly the feeling that I had, but I'm really proud that I was able to in that moment do what was right. Um, and so, yeah, like I, Without a doubt, that experience has shaped, it absolutely shaped so much of my swimming career. And I think it pushed me to another level of intensity that I may not have found otherwise. 00:21:47 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:21:48 Speaker 2: Wow. And where did the four by one sit in relation to the individual event? 00:21:53 Speaker 1: It was the very first day of competition. So my very first day of competition, the very first race at my very first Olympics, I won an Olympic gold medal. which is just like, I mean, you can't even write about that. That's insane. And we broke the world record. Yeah. 00:22:08 Speaker 3: And were you guys the first relay to win gold for an Aussie team since Melbourne? 00:22:13 Speaker 1: Yes. 00:22:13 Speaker 2: 1956. 00:22:13 Speaker 3: Yes. Because like, if I reflect on, you know, the past, what was Athens? 00:22:20 Speaker 2: 22 years. 00:22:21 Speaker 3: Like, you know, the golden girls in the realize, like it just feels like we've dominated forever, but you guys like kind of started. 00:22:26 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:22:27 Speaker 1: I mean, this is my little bug bear. 00:22:29 Speaker 2: Okay. 00:22:29 Speaker 1: So they always talk about the kind of the reign of the four by one girls. And we've been writing since 2004, but because we didn't win in 2008, they only kind of talk about from 2012. Wow. We got bronze in 08. Yeah. Um, But like, I'm like, can we acknowledge that bronze is excellent still? 00:22:53 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:22:54 Speaker 3: Let's discuss this because do you think, I feel like in Australian culture, because there's so much success, particularly in swimming, do you feel like bronze is often like, but it's not gold? 00:23:04 Speaker 1: Totally. 1 million percent. Well, what do you think? 00:23:07 Speaker 2: It's still an Olympic bronze medal. 00:23:08 Speaker 1: What do you think? Do you feel like that? 00:23:11 Speaker 3: I feel like people absolutely do that. Like I, I feel like in Australian culture, it's like, Gold or nothing a little bit. 00:23:19 Speaker 2: Yeah. But we're so spoiled. 00:23:21 Speaker 1: We're so spoiled. Like we are so unbelievably spoiled. But I think it also warps a lot of athletes' mentality when it comes to performance. 00:23:34 Speaker 2: Totally. 00:23:34 Speaker 1: You know, I've spoken about it before, but like if you go into it with no expectation, like you're not kind of expected to win any medal, if you walk away with silver– you've won silver. Totally. You've won second place. That's incredible. But if you go in with the expectation that you're the world record holder, you're expected to win, and you walk away with the same silver medal, it's a completely different experience and, you know, absolutely devastating. to that person who had this expectation that it was gold or nothing.

00:24:09 Speaker 3: Even with the Aussie Sevens women at the last couple of Olympics in Paris, there was heartbreak. They lost in the semifinal and then they came up against the USA, lost the bronze medal match in the dying moments of the game. USA winning that bronze medal was. 00:24:25 Speaker 2: huge for them. 00:24:26 Speaker 3: Like it was, it felt like they celebrated like a gold medal, like you touched on. 00:24:29 Speaker 1: They had no expectation. 00:24:30 Speaker 2: They had no expectation. 00:24:31 Speaker 3: Whereas the Aussie sevens women had the expectation that they were going to try and win a gold medal. You know, they probably thought they'd be up against New Zealand in the final. And then when they lost the semi, it kind of just capitulated, but yeah, the different, yeah, it's so true. Isn't it around your preparation and expectation. 00:24:46 Speaker 2: For those events? 00:24:48 Speaker 1: And it just massively impacts then I think, the experience after as well, because, you know, I mean, I got silver in the 100 freestyle in 08 by 0.04 of a second, like nothing. It's nothing. That is not even an amount of time that you can comprehend. And yet I have spent, I reckon, 15 years of my life just being so sad. About that result. 00:25:22 Speaker 2: Wow. 00:25:22 Speaker 1: And it took me 15 years to actually go and watch that race back and fully kind of process that I didn't win and that actually silver was exceptional. It's like, it's stupid. Like I can now say that, you know, objectively that was a stupid feeling, but you cannot help it when everything that you've put into all of the effort and energy and time and sacrifices and all of the things that you've missed out on. You know, I missed out on my sister-in-law's wedding because I was at a training camp and they wouldn't let me come out. And so you miss so many milestones and moments that when you don't get the result that you've put everything into, it's devastating. 00:26:13 Speaker 2: I am getting a bit teary. 00:26:15 Speaker 3: I don't often do this when interviewing people, but I think It's so interesting hearing you, you know, about these two Olympics. Like I have all my notes here and I think about what you've been inducted into the hall of fame. You've won multiple Olympic gold medals. I admired you as a little kid, but the two stories you've told first off the bat without me leading you to that place has been about what you perceive as your failures. 00:26:40 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:26:41 Speaker 3: Like that is heartbreaking to me. Like you are such an icon of all Australian athletes, but that's how you reflect on these huge moments in your career. 00:26:50 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:26:51 Speaker 1: And it's so funny because I feel like it's particularly in swimming because in swimming, it is so about the individual medal. And I don't know if, All athletes would agree with this in swimming, but I think probably a lot would probably nod their head. But it's all about the individual gold. We want to win the individual gold medal. That is the pinnacle of our sport. And it's so funny now that with all of the time and hindsight and experience, the... the moment and the event that I think about the most, and I'm so grateful for the most is the four by one medley relay in Beijing, because that was a moment that for, you know, and the very first day of competition and walking in and winning a gold medal with four incredible women was exceptional. And that is certainly edged in my memory as well. But this moment was, you know, four years later, it had been just the most tumultuous eight days as an Olympics almost always is when it comes to racing and competing and handling expectations. But, you know, I, we had gotten bronze, we had expected to win gold. And so, you know, bronze is a piece of shit. Um, but then, you know, I'd won the hundred butterfly and, um, Then I got silver in the 100 freestyle after missing the final and being reinstated because a girl got disqualified. I then performed as best as I could but got fourth in the 50 freestyle, which is the first time I'd never won a medal at that level of competition. And I was gutted. I still haven't watched the 50 freestyle back, I have to admit. I haven't watched the 50 freestyle back. But I had 15 minutes to. 00:28:55 Speaker 1: Like refocus and reframe I had the men's 1500 meters freestyle to get myself together to go and then compete in the four by one medley relay and you know I walked into the marshalling area I didn't have time to swim down or anything I just had to go straight to back to marshalling and in in the marshalling room was Liesl Jones, Emily Seabom and Jessica Schipper and all three of them had themselves had their own tumultuous eight days of competition. You know, Em had missed the 100 backstroke final. I mean, she was like 12 at the time. No, I'm kidding. She was like 15. She was very, very young. So, you know, she missed the final, which was obviously devastating to her at the time. 00:29:39 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:29:41 Speaker 1: Liesl had won the 100 breaststroke, but got silver in the 200 breaststroke, which she was incredibly disappointed about. Jess had been the favorite for both the 100 and 200 butterfly, but got bronze in both events. So we'd all had this really tumultuous eight days of competition and And I just remember walking in with them and going, I need your help. And they were so beautiful. Like it wasn't like we sat down and had a therapy session. They just embraced me and hugged me. And then we laughed and we danced and we were silly and we really came together as a team. And it was just the most beautiful. fantastic experience because in my mind it had been so about me the whole time and I really felt in that moment that it wasn't it was something so much greater than what my swimming career was and you know Em ended up doing a personal best uh Liesl did a personal best relay split Jess did a personal best relay split and then I

ended up doing a personal best relay split and we broke the world record we won the gold medal and It's the thing that is so ingrained in me now, that moment, because so much of it was just about winning individual gold. But the thing that I keep drawing on and the thing that reminds me all of the time of how important those experiences are is that relay and sharing that moment with those women. 00:31:16 Speaker 2: That's beautiful. Yeah. That's really, really cool. I want to touch on your first retirement. Yes. 00:31:24 Speaker 1: Unlike John Farnham. 00:31:28 Speaker 2: How did you come to that decision in 2009? 00:31:31 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was 2009. It was off the back of the Rome World Championships. I was burnt out, honestly. Swimming is a really intense sport. And even though I didn't kind of specialize from a very young age, I had been swimming my whole life. And so by that stage, I was 24. I had spent 35 hours a week, 48 weeks of the year for the previous like seven years just swimming. And, you know, I just, I really felt like, it's funny because at the time I was just like, I'm just ready for new experiences and new challenges. Like I definitely wouldn't have described myself as burnt out. But I know that that's what I was like, I just was jaded and I was done, you know, it was the super suits that year. That was, I felt really disappointed by the sport in that moment. And I just, I felt like I needed to see what else was out there. And, uh, I wasn't, I wasn't ready. I wasn't ready for the real world. Um, it's such a different life and it's such a different experience. when your whole schedule is planned, when you're told what to do, where to go, what to pack, in a lot of times what to eat, when to sleep, all of those things, just everything is so structured. And also the feeling of that progress, like you're working towards something every single day. Like I still miss that. I miss that so much. Like that is one of the things that I think about often is how awesome it was just to be so focused on one thing. Cause that's not the real world. Like that's not real life. 00:33:25 Speaker 2: Um, it is not real. Right. 00:33:29 Speaker 1: Like it's just not like you get up every day and you just do this one thing and you're, you're progressing every single day. I talk about closing loops. I'm like, I just want to close a bloody loop. want to finish one bloody task. 00:33:41 Speaker 2: Just one thing. Just anything. 00:33:42 Speaker 1: Even just a thought would be great. Um, but yeah, so I, I knew that I was ready, but well, I thought that I was ready for new challenges, but the reality is very different and I didn't know what else I wanted to do outside of swimming. I assumed that I would probably get a job in media or like that's what people tend to do. You either go into coaching or you go into the media. And so I just assumed that I would get a job and start working as a journalist or in sports media. But it's not as simple as that. And again, in the real world, there's no feedback. There's no structure. There's no one there kind of telling you what to do or you know, telling you how to do things better. It's like everyone for themselves. And it was a really difficult time on so many levels. Like personally, my relationship was quite difficult at the time with my husband. I think because I was going through so much in that transition as well. We were living in Sydney. I had no family or friend support and I had a job that I didn't really like. And I didn't really know what to do. So I felt like I was just kind of sitting there like, you know, completely pointlessly. And I realized that, well, I fell into a depression because you also kind of go, I'm not going to exercise at all. And you completely rebel against anything and everything. So I didn't touch the water for 10 months. barely was exercising because, you know, I can sleep in now. 00:35:32 Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. 00:35:33 Speaker 1: And so, yeah, I went through a period of depression for about 10 months and I got to a point where I realized that I needed to do something, like I need to move and feel like I'm working on something to get out of that mindset and that deep depression that I had kind of fallen into. And so for me, that meant coming back to swimming and feeling like I was in my comfort zone again, feel like I was working towards something like the draw of going to another Olympics felt so good and felt so natural and comfortable that I needed that again. And so that's why I went back to swimming. 00:36:18 Speaker 2: How do you reflect on London being part of that comeback? 00:36:22 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:36:23 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:36:24 Speaker 1: It's another interesting, um, experience, I guess, because I like everything that came easily to me in my first iteration of my career was no longer easy. And so, you know, there's so much doubts and there's so much, there was so much kind of, um, buzz because, you know, it wasn't just me coming back. It was Thorpey and Clemmie and Hugel and all of these people are coming back and, you know, there's people saying negative things, there's people saying positive things, and you really have to kind of block everything out and just focus on what you're doing. I, London, it was really bittersweet for me because I thought I was capable of being selected for the final team in the four by one. And ultimately I wasn't. And that was again, devastating. Uh, But again, I feel like those experiences and those moments have absolutely shaped my thinking and shaped me as a human and created an ability for me to understand people better because I was able to kind of process that and understand myself more in that moment. Don't get me wrong, totally devastated that I wasn't able to be on that final podium, but was really proud that I still walked away with a medal, even though for a really long time, I was like, that doesn't count because you weren't part of the final team. But now I'm

really proud of that medal. I call it my people's medal. I like show it off because it's like, it's a real joy for me to be able to show that one off. Um, but yeah, it's, it was, I had every intention of, of continuing and, like every intention of swimming on because I was like, I've made this effort to regenerate that momentum forward and regenerate that progress. And it's so funny. Like I just feel like the world and the universe works in mysterious ways. I ended up getting injured. Like it was a catastrophic, well, the surgeon described it as a catastrophic wrist injury. which would basically be the end of my career. And of course the stubbornness kicks in and I'm like, you don't even know who you're talking to. I will make it back. But I realized that, you know, after basically 10 months, 12 months out of the water again, off the back of my retirement and, you know, a couple of couple of swimmers by the name of Kate and Bronte Campbell coming through. Oh, how rude. Jets. I was like, I'm not going to get... I won't be capable. Like, I was able to have that kind of conversation with myself where I knew that I wouldn't be able to get back to the levels of competition that I would want to be at. And so... I had to make the decision to retire for the second time. And I was much better prepared, without a doubt, much better prepared for retirement the second time around. I knew that I had to keep moving my body. I knew how important exercise was to my mental health. I started to try and take up little events that I could work towards and all those sorts of things. But to still, like, I feel like it's still been a real journey in terms of understanding what my passion is outside of just swimming and understanding how you can then apply it and how you can work in that space. Because I am, I have tried it. I've worked in a corporate office and working nine to five and doing that sort of thing. And I realized very quickly that that environment is not good for me. It's not the work that I want to be doing. It's not where I felt impactful. And so it's understanding how I could create a job in the area that I wanted to create. And I'm so lucky that I get to do that now with Sportish and working with kids in participation in sport and you know, getting to be a very present parent as well. Like these are all the elements of my life that keep me excited and motivated, but wouldn't have happened if it weren't for all of the elements of my swimming career as well. 00:40:56 Speaker 3: I'm very excited to touch on Sportish, but what has motherhood been like for you? 00:41:04 Speaker 1: Total shit show. Can I say that? 00:41:09 Speaker 2: Absolutely, you can. Honesty only over here. 00:41:13 Speaker 1: No, look, it's so funny. Like I was telling you this earlier, zero to one child is the hardest thing I have ever done. Like hands down, nothing can prepare you for becoming a mother and parenthood in general. Like it is, especially for someone who has been so in control and, you know, has been able to kind of, dictate what I do with my time which is ironic because you know as an athlete you're told what to do but it's like I was choosing to do that even though you know I was being told what to do and also with babies like they don't give you feedback they don't tell you you're doing a good job. 00:42:00 Speaker 3: Yeah they don't give you negative feedback not positive it's. 00:42:04 Speaker 1: All bloody negative like it's all just I'm crying who knows why why are you crying I don't know And so that was really, really intense for me. And then added to that, my first was not a good sleeper. And so I went through another bout of kind of depression, but it was postnatal depression. And that was horrific. It was like devastating experience only because I had, you have these ideas of what parenthood is going to be. And you have this image in your mind of how, I will be as a mother. And I wasn't that in the first year of Poppy's life. And that is still something that I wrangle with from time to time. I worry that I wasn't there enough for her in her first 12 months. But it's so funny now that she's 11 and I have four other. 00:43:04 Speaker 2: Kids. 00:43:07 Speaker 1: It was so fun. After her, I was like, I'm never having another child again. And then we were like, oh, no, we need to have a second because I don't want to be playing with the first. Like I need a playmate for the first. And that's how we ended up having our second daughter. 00:43:24 Speaker 2: Having five. 00:43:26 Speaker 1: Well, hilariously, we were like, we have to have at least one more. And then weirdly after Eddie, our second daughter, was born, both Luke and I were like, I just don't think we're done. And so we ended up having Bronte, our third girl. And then after Bronte, 12 months later, I just had this just wave of like, we need to have a fourth. Like I just knew in my soul that there was another baby and I had to campaign my husband for 18 bloody months to like hook him on that idea. And then hilariously, like 12 months after Alfie, our first son was born, He comes to me and he's like, I don't think I'm done. And I'm like, what? I had to bloody cancel. I had to lobby you for 18 months. And he's like, well, what do you think? I'm like, sure, let's go for it. I love it. But, yeah, so we ended up with five and I could never have imagined that we would have five kids. But it's, for me, it's just the most remarkable, like it's so hard. it's so hard and you feel like you're failing constantly and you feel like you're doing the wrong thing. And, but the, the growth that I've experienced as a human is unlike anything else that I've had, like through all of the twists and turns of my swimming, I haven't experienced this amount of growth as a human and my perspective and my empathy and my patience and, I really enjoy that. And particularly now that they're getting to an older stage, I know that I'm a better parent to an older child. I love

talking to them about being human. Like that is a real joy for me. And they, they're more interesting. They're not just, you know, you're not just teaching them to poo on a toilet. Like there's more interesting, more nuanced conversations that you can start to have with them and, they're starting to be more interested in TV shows that we can both watch and it's not just all Spider-Man and Wiggles, you know, it's, yeah, it's a real joy. And I love the evolution that you have with each stage of, of childhood. 00:45:48 Speaker 3: How has your identity evolved? Cause I think if I look at like being an athlete, I feel like it's an inherently selfish pursuit. You know, you're at the center of it. You're looking after your body. You're doing all these things. You're missing family events. You're doing stuff that's all about you and your body and how you can perform at your best. 00:46:06 Speaker 2: Yeah. Parenthood is kind of the complete opposite of that. The exact opposite. 00:46:11 Speaker 3: And then at the same time, you're trying to forge a career that's not a nine to five corporate job. Like how have you navigated that? 00:46:19 Speaker 1: At times, poorly. 00:46:20 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:46:21 Speaker 1: And again, like it's, it's completely unhinged, but I wouldn't want it to be anything other than this. Like I feel really lucky that I get to work in a space that I'm so passionate about. Like before, like when I left school, the year that I left school, before I had, you know, the real clear vision that swimming was what I was going to pursue in the year after school, I wanted to be a PE teacher. 00:46:49 Speaker 2: Like, Great gig. Right? They're always the coolest. They're so cool. They're so cool. I always wanted to be friends with them. 00:46:55 Speaker 1: I totally agree. They're just a total vibe. So for me, I feel like I'm doing that work now. I get to work with kids. I get to work with parents in the sports space of education and understanding and how to create kids who are lifelong lovers of sport. And yes, some of them will go on to be elite athletes and that's super bloody cool. And like, I mean, that is where my heart lies ultimately. But the fact that I get to help so many kids find themselves through sport is just, it's such a joy. And, you know, getting to work with my sister-in-law is just the tits. I don't know how else to describe it. Like it's just the best thing ever. 00:47:42 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:47:43 Speaker 1: And so for me, the fact that I get to do work that I'm passionate about, we are working at all hours at, you know, I'm sending emails in the middle of cracks between taking kids to, you know, medical appointments and getting them to school on time and supporting my husband in the pursuit of his career as well. Like it's, I feel like I'm running all of the time. And it does absolutely get frustrating that I can't just focus on myself sometimes. Absolutely. Like the amount of conversations I've had with my husband about,

you know, I just, again, I just want to close the loop. Like I just want to finish the laundry. I just want it to stop at some point, but it doesn't. 00:48:34 Speaker 2: It doesn't ever stop. It's relentless. Exactly. 00:48:39 Speaker 1: It is exactly relentless. Like I finish folding and I'm like, cool, I've done that. And then I go back to the dryer or the clothesline and I'm like, oh, no, there's a whole other load right there. Immediately I have to do another load. And so there are definitely moments, and this probably speaks to why just focusing on one thing is the thing that I miss most about swimming. Like I just, it would be so nice to be able to just sit down at a desk and think and daydream about what, you know, Sportish can be and how it can help people and the impact that it can make. But that's not, the reality of my life. And it may not be ever, you know, I hope I have grandkids in the future. And, you know, there's going to be constant pulls on your time, which is why being an athlete is not real life. It is absolutely a bubble. It is not reality. And so I have to take and, I have to take what I can get when I can get it and be really grateful that I get to be a present parent and I get to do all of that as well. But it does get frustrating when for a good chunk of your life, it was just all about what you were trying to achieve. 00:49:57 Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. 00:49:58 Speaker 3: You've touched on Sportish a couple of times there. For people who don't know, what is it and where was it born from? 00:50:04 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it's our podcast. So my sister-in-law, Georgie, and I, We are not sisters. We are sisters-in-law. So we married into the Trickett family. We married brothers. And it's so funny. Like, I feel like for a really long time. So Georgie was actually my school captain. 00:50:22 Speaker 2: Oh. 00:50:23 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:50:24 Speaker 2: I know. 00:50:24 Speaker 1: She was very fancy. She does not remember me at school, which feels hurtful. But I. 00:50:32 Speaker 2: I haven't held it against her. 00:50:34 Speaker 1: Yeah. I didn't hold it against her. That's fine. 00:50:36 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:50:37 Speaker 1: She was the big dog at school. And yeah, we got to know each other just kind of, you know, obviously through each of us having a relationship with Luke and Ben. And then I feel like since we had kids, we slowly started to develop a stronger and deeper relationship. And it was probably about, I think it was about four, five years ago. We were both going to this because Georgie, I would describe her as an extrovert. I'm not sure if she would describe herself as an extrovert, but she loves talking to people all of the time. And despite appearances, I am an introvert, but she would kind of corral me into doing different events. And actually, I will take credit. I did get her back into running after having babies, which I feel very proud of. But we signed up. 00:51:30 Speaker 2: Especially for a non-land animal. 00:51:32 Speaker 1: Oh, no. No, I took her for her first run post babies and she kept running and I stopped. 00:51:42 Speaker 2: It's all about the first. 00:51:43 Speaker 1: Yeah, correct. 00:51:44 Speaker 2: It's all about the first. 00:51:44 Speaker 1: He's going to break the seal. It's fine. But it was really great because we signed up for this long distance, too far for me, running event that was like a weekend away. And we were driving and we were just talking about sports podcasts and how there really wasn't anything available. I think you, when did you guys start? 00:52:06 Speaker 2: We were 2020. 00:52:08 Speaker 1: Okay. So you guys had just started, right? And we were just like, we just don't hear sport the way that we talk about it, which is not statistics, which is, you know, I don't really care who won, to be honest. Like that's, part of the story but it's not the whole story like we were really interested in the humans behind the stories we're interested in talking about the state of men's hair in the nrl and we you know like the funny things the interesting things the human things and so we're like should we start a podcast i feel like we should start a podcast because you know why not um and so it kind of grew from there and it started with us initially just talking about sport and the way that we liked to kind of receive it and enjoy it. We talk so much about sports documentaries, a huge genre of house, but we just slowly. And I think as our kids got older and we started to see this, um, I feel like this gap where we talk about kids, sport participation and, um, you know, we really started to see that in our own kids and, you know, their experiences through their own sport that we just wanted to make it as accessible as possible. Like I think sometimes in Australia it can be very elitist in a way, in the way that people receive it. It's like unless you are a full-blown supporter of one team for your whole life, you're not allowed to enjoy it. Whereas I'm all about the bandwagon. Like I jump on bandwagons willy nilly. I watched the Matildas when, you know, the world cup and it was this amazing movement, but I haven't really watched soccer, but I will watch it again. The next world cup. I jump on bandwagons and I, we want to give people permission to enjoy sport the way that they want to enjoy it. It doesn't have to be one specific way. 00:54:16 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:54:17 Speaker 1: You know, Georgie is into way more sports than I am. I have niche interests. Like, I like, again, I like to jump on bandwagons. I watched the Brisbane Lions go to win the grand final. I only watched two. the second half of the grand final that. 00:54:35 Speaker 2: Counts that counts. 00:54:37 Speaker 1: It totally counts right like it and you know i think that is really important for people to fully understand that you can enjoy it in whatever way if we can give you a little bit of information about how kids can enjoy sport better how we can

remove obstacles for kids to get into sport and for parents to understand that they don't need to specialize early. Like they're the things that we really try to weave in to our conversations. 00:55:11 Speaker 2: Can you explain the series that you've done? 00:55:13 Speaker 3: You've already done one season on the Play Well series, which was exceptional. 00:55:17 Speaker 1: Thank you. 00:55:18 Speaker 3: And you've just recently launched season two with the Australian Sports Commission for this series. 00:55:22 Speaker 2: Can you explain what that's all about? 00:55:23 Speaker 1: Yeah, so we were thrilled, honestly, to be able to work with the Australian Sports Commission and their Play Well strategy because we were talking about it anyway. I feel like it's not that often when you can kind of align with an organisation and And you're already doing the exact same work. And we feel really lucky that we've been able to do that when it comes to this Play Well strategy, which is all about the fact that everyone has a place in sport. It should be totally inclusive. There are so many barriers that we know kids and families are facing when it comes to participating in sport. And we just want to try and have those conversations with everyone. some elite athletes and some just normal humans and their connection to sport. I've, what I've really enjoyed particularly about the conversations that we've had is that yes, there is a huge element of kids sport, but we've actually had a lot of conversations about adults reconnecting with sport later in life or discovering a new sport later in life. And I just, I think that really speaks to our desire to help people create that lifelong love of sport. And it doesn't have to just be, you know, in the actual doing of it. It can be in volunteering. It can be in, you know, team management or officiating. There are so many options to engage and enjoy sport. And it's about finding what that why is, whether you're, you know, an eight-year-old who's just discovered something that they love or a 45 year old woman who is returning to sport post babies. 00:57:11 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:57:12 Speaker 1: You know, there are so many different levels and layers to it. And yeah, we've just, we feel so lucky with the people that we've been able to talk to. Um, yeah. And like you, like, it's so interesting, like hearing people's stories. Right. And you're like, I had no idea that that was part of your experience. So interesting. 00:57:33 Speaker 3: Are there any pieces of data that have, shocked or surprised you along the way? 00:57:36 Speaker 1: I think the thing that Georgie and I hear all of the time, whether it's just talking one-on-one or through social media, is the cost of sport. That is the biggest barrier to so many families participating. There's been actually some really interesting research that's come out recently from the Australian Sports Commission, actually, where it says that 78% of families... find the costs prohibitive to participating in sport. And, you know, these are families. So the people who answered these questions are people who are already engaged in sport. So if 78% of those families are already experiencing, you know, that cost prohibitive, you know, experience, what does that mean for all of the rest of the families who aren't already there? You know, the reason that they're probably not playing is because they can't afford it. And so... Like that is the next hill that I want us to climb is like how do we bring down the cost of sport? How do we understand where those costs are going? How do we navigate that for the families? Because, I mean, there was this crazy amount. So the average amount is $ 4, 000 for one child for one sport to play. 00:59:02 Speaker 2: That's an insane amount of money. 00:59:03 Speaker 1: Insane. So that's not taking into account two kids or two kids playing two sports like that. is one kid one sport four thousand dollars like that is an insane amount of money to expect families to pay and we don't have clear information about where that money's going or like what the the those sports are doing with that money You know, so many sports are reliant on volunteer coaches, so they're not getting paid. So where is that money going and how do we get accountability for all of these organisations to make it as accessible as possible? Because, again, this is the stubbornness in me. Like, in my mind, if we want the best of the best going to compete for Australia at the Olympics and the Paralympics, we want the biggest base possible for participation. We don't want to, you know, kind of make that group, that pond smaller. We want to make it as big as possible so that we can find all of the best talent to go and represent us at the Olympics and Paralympics. Like that, that in my mind makes sense. And we just know how wonderful sport is for, you know, social and community and for mental health and for developing grit and determination and focus. And there's so much benefit for kids to play in sport, regardless of whether they end up going to compete at the highest level. 01:00:42 Speaker 3: I reflect a lot on my sporting career, how privileged I was that my parents were able to take me to multiple different sports and Yep. Um, you know, I'm similar to you, such a huge advocate for kids playing multiple different sports, but I don't think it's until I've become an adult or a mom myself that I've started to think about what Fred's going to play. And when you say a number like $ 4, 000 for one sport, one kid, you know, I'd love if Fred wants to, I'd love him to play four or five different sports, but you start to think I can barely pay rent and I'd love to have a mortgage, you know? Yeah. Sorry, I wouldn't love to have a mortgage. Own a home and hopefully be able to pay the mortgage and for my. 01:01:21 Speaker 2: Kid to play sport. 01:01:22 Speaker 1: Correct. But also time as well, like the amount of sports who are requiring

their kids to have two training sessions a week at the age of seven and games on weekend. Like it's totally prohibitive in terms of time cost as well. And this is the thing, like we want to be able to– we have to say and we always have to have the caveat– like sport is not just organized sport, like there's unstructured play, there's family bike rides, there's so many different ways to enjoy movement and sport. But in terms of organized sport, like we need to make it as accessible financially and accessible as in, you know, facilities and all of those inclusive elements as possible. 01:02:10 Speaker 3: Absolutely. 01:02:10 Speaker 2: Absolutely. 01:02:11 Speaker 3: I have a couple of questions that I ask each of my guests. We might have to do them as not rapid fire, but I'm conscious of times. 01:02:19 Speaker 2: Yeah, let's go with that. 01:02:21 Speaker 1: I am not succinct. But yes, I'll give it my best. 01:02:26 Speaker 2: Who has had the biggest impact on you as a person? 01:02:31 Speaker 1: Not to sound corny, but my husband, for sure. He changed the way that I saw what hard work could be. you know, speaking in relation to swimming at the time. Like he was the hardest worker I've ever seen in any sport. And so when I come from that background of being a massive bludger and then I saw what he was doing and what I was then able to push myself to do, like without a doubt he's shaped me. And I've known him since I was 17. So he's absolutely been fundamental to what I think I know that I'm capable of because he's able to help. He's been there by my side the whole time. 01:03:14 Speaker 2: I love that. That's really cool. What would you describe as your favourite failure? 01:03:21 Speaker 1: Ooh, I think... I mean, we've touched on a couple. 01:03:31 Speaker 2: We have. 01:03:31 Speaker 1: We've touched on a little snippet from my life. But I think my... biggest regret and I can't like you know I've been watching lots of Dolly Parton recently she talked about not ever having regrets but I guess the the thing that I would catch as a as a regret is the fact that I fully retired and didn't just take time out okay and I think I reflect on that a lot now because I think I should have taken time away from the sport rather than gone absolutely And that's that very much all or nothing mentality that I can tend to have. And so now as a, you know, more grown adult, I realize how actually very important it is to keep moving forward, even if it seems almost imperceptible to anyone's naked eye. Like that is the whole reason that we've been able to keep pushing Sportish forward is because we kept showing up, you know, I've I've had two kids during that period of time and, you know, I've strapped babies on and Georgie's learnt bloody everything to do with production and how like we just kept showing up. And I think that experience for me really showed that it doesn't have to be perfect. It doesn't have to be like all or nothing. It can just be incremental steps forward. 01:05:02 Speaker 2: I love that. 01:05:03 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for your time, for coming out to the studio today. It's been such a joy to hear your story and to meet you properly in person. I have such deep respect for the work that you do, the athlete that you are, but the work that you do and just who both you and Georgie are as people. Like, I think you're just the kindest, most lovely person. people and I think you're doing such incredible work so thank you so. 01:05:26 Speaker 1: Much well you know at the risk of sounding like just blowing smoke up each other's but we're like I mean it's the same like I just love the work that that you and Bez and and you know the whole team are doing like what you you were changing the face of female sport representation in the media and I just I'm so grateful that my girls have someone like you to be role models like is just yeah Thank you for the work that you do. 01:05:54 Speaker 2: That means a lot. Thank you so much. Amazing. 01:05:59 Speaker 3: Thanks so much for listening. If you got something out of this episode, I would absolutely love it if you could send it on to one person who you think might enjoy it. Otherwise, subscribe, give us a review, and make sure you follow us on Instagram at The Female Athlete Project to stay up to date with podcast episodes, merch drops, and of course, news and stories about epic female athletes.