رونوشت کامل #58 - Mortality, Sensitivity & the Courage to Change w/ Katie of Mindful Constitution

than you and I have been. Let me back up for a second. Business is such a crash course in personal development. Holy Katie Campbell: Mm. Holly Ransom: shit. And especially the type of business that we are creating where it is so disruptive to this culture and it is like directly questioning the culture and calling out societal norms and kind of flipping the script on what has been deemed weird, even as you said that, weird or woo woo or whatever the heck, and putting it into the spotlight is actually, just like you said, I love how you put this, well integrated sensitivity is so needed right now across systems and on the more individual level too, just relationally. And doing this work though because it is so counter cultural and the conditioning of this culture is so heavy it takes a lot of fucking courage to walk this path so i recognized after our episode after a couple other episodes and just so many different serendipities and kind of unfoldings of my life in the past year i was like wow i have in so many ways embraced my path and like been public. on my path as, you know, this spiritual sensitive person leading a business from a soulful place. And there were still so many ways and still are, right? I'm working through it, that I have been hiding parts of my story, hiding parts of myself and not owning the fullness of like, I am fucking psychic. I see and feel people's energy. When I am teaching a yoga class, it is being channeled through me. It's not something that I write down the poses and like think about it and practice it. Like that shit is Katie Campbell: Mm-hmm. Holly Ransom: moving through me from source from God from whatever So I just wanted to shout out a Thank you for you walking this path and navigating it all to like all of us on this path right our torchbearers for someone else So you Katie Campbell: Yeah. Holly Ransom: are a torchbearer that helped gave me permission to own my story in a little bit of a bolder way. And I'm sure that you had those people too. So actually, there we go. Here's my next question. I would love to hear who are some of your inspirations? Who are some of the people that helped give you that permission to be yourself on this path? Whether it was like somebody in business doing it or your own mentor or a friend or whoever, who are some of your inspirations? Katie Campbell: Thank That's a great question. And thank you, by the way. I think that's really awesome. And I do feel like one of my biggest observations along even being in the spiritual realm or health and wellness. I mean, there is weird like gatekeeping competition everywhere. And I'm like, I just refuse. to be participating in that. like, I want any person I talk to that's like not as far along in quotes or whatever to be not to feel, I'm gonna be like, let me tell you the dates, All right, this is how Holly Ransom: Yeah. Katie Campbell: you market a Facebook event. People are gonna talk shit. What else do you need to know? And I love it. And

I'm very inspired by everything you're creating. And I think it's really awesome to just be in the presence of. people, you know, I was like laughing earlier, just even our work is really similar. and it's like, but I just think of like how in the past, I have had coaches be like, you shouldn't have people on your podcast, like focus on people outside your niche. And I'm like, I, like, I Holly Ransom: Hmm. Katie Campbell: can't even imagine somebody saying that to me now and me taking them seriously. Like, yeah, no, that's just not Holly Ransom: Yeah. Katie Campbell: gonna operate. Like, yeah. But yeah, just really breaking out of some of those programmed ways of being, think, too, you know, as women, are conditioned to be like competitive and I and just really excavating all of our belief systems and insecurities and just not allowing ourselves to feed into them. So I appreciate saying that and I appreciate all your work and everything you're doing, too. And I think it's really, really amazing. And you it's it's obvious to me that you're doing what you're supposed to be doing. embodied the work you do. So Holly Ransom: Thank you. Katie Campbell: you're welcome. Holly Ransom: you Katie Campbell: Let's see for who's inspired me, I definitely feel like, you know, my mom has been a huge, like subconscious infiltrator into my psyche, you know, she was always very sensitive and she always just spoke pretty openly about, you know, a connection to the other side because we had a pretty dramatic family like tragedy growing up where we lost people and my family in a car accident. We got in like a family car accident and my dad and brother passed away and she had like a really intense vision of my brother and he was young. I think when he passed away he was 11 or So 12, no 14. So he was 14. And she was just, you know, obviously as a mom, pretty distraught. And she was like, I'm not going to be able to be okay if I don't know that he's okay. And she had a really powerful vision of him just saying, mom, like where I am, you are all here. Like this is all one where I am. You're just not. You can't access where I am, but you are where I am. I'm just not where you are." And Holly Ransom: Wow. Katie Campbell: she was like, I knew it was real. It wasn't a dream. And she was spiritual before that. We grew up super like crunchy and holistic. And my dad was a chiropractor who passed away. And so it was very much like we led an alternative life. My mom was pretty spiritual, but she also exposed, like put me in a like open kind of Christian school, very... And by open, mean not like fundamental, Christian, Holly Ransom: Yeah, yeah. Katie Campbell: more of like Jesus loves us all type of let's sing at a chapel. Holly Ransom: Yeah. Katie Campbell: And so I always had this like positive experience of like Christianity, very like, you know, although I wasn't like dogmatically religious by any form, I certainly didn't have religious trauma being exposed to Christianity. I

had very like spiritual exposure. My mom, also got sober and I saw her struggle with alcoholism and get sober. Holly Ransom: Alright. Right on. Katie Campbell: just a lot there for my mom in terms of like her sensitivity, her spirituality, her open-mindedness. She was always very gracious without ever having to like preach about her choices. Like she gave birth to us all in a bathtub at home and just, she didn't Holly Ransom: Mm. Katie Campbell: really ever talk about that. she was super crunchy in her medical choices for us. She didn't ever really talk about that as kind Holly Ransom: you Katie Campbell: of led to my choice not to partake in the COVID vaccine, but also Holly Ransom: Mm-hmm. Katie Campbell: just this recognition that like you can walk an alternative path and you don't have to advertise it. You can just Holly Ransom: Yeah. Katie Campbell: do it and you don't also don't need to feel defensive about it. Like just because people may try to make you feel that way, cause you're choosing differently. You don't have to absorb that. Well, this is what I'm doing, like, do you? Holly Ransom: Mm-hmm. Katie Campbell: So that was a huge, like, inspiration to me in many ways and, like, influence, certainly. then throughout, it's funny to say, like, strangers online, but I truly think seeing strangers online that were authentic and sharing and chasing their dreams, I had a really hard time initially when I started putting myself out there because it was entrepreneurship and sobriety as someone who was previously Holly Ransom: you Katie Campbell: like the biggest binge drinker in their friend group. the my immediate reality didn't have anyone who was like doing what I was doing, starting a health coaching business on a basic level, but being like sober curiosity and high sensitivity. They're like, what the fuck are you talking about? know, so I think a lot of exposure just to people on the internet. And then there's like definitely specific like teachers and people that I crossed paths with along the way. You know, like the work of Elaine Arone and talking about high sensitivity was pretty transformational for me and understanding my self-medication with alcohol and... Holly Ransom: Thank Katie Campbell: Yeah, different authors and books along the way for sure, but I really feel like the core is probably my mom. Like the roots of my foundation, you know? Holly Ransom: Yeah, that is beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing all of that. That definitely gave me such a more holistic perspective of who you are and how you got to be where you are. There's so many important parts of what you just said that I want to highlight. Firstly, that you really clearly highlighted, shouted out such a truth that as women we're taught to compete with each other. And that is so in line with this false scarcity that has been conditioned into us. And the more that I've steeped into this space of the online coaching, it's not a cult, online coaching. Katie Campbell: Okay. Holly Ransom: my gosh, online Katie Campbell: Bye! Holly Ransom: coaching, especially with feminine energetics too. The quantum, the abundance mindset of like, we all have our people. There are billions of people on this planet, right? And your specific story is going to call in your specific people. Your specific way of being and speaking and thinking and creating is meant to call in your specific people. in the gene keys, there's those fractal lines, trusting that your fractal line of your- people is out there and it cannot be fucked with and you don't need to like force that to happen or push other people out of the way to make that happen. So I actually Katie Campbell: I Holly Ransom: love that I get to connect with and talk to other people that are doing such similar things to me because it inspires the fuck out of me. It sparks my curiosity and I think it's just actually helping us find more and more of the right people and like cross-pollinate in this beautiful way that creates more fertile soil. Katie Campbell: everything is a communication to God or the universe so when you are embracing Holly Ransom: Mm-hmm. Katie Campbell: even this conversation instead of being like we're too similar maybe I shouldn't have her on my podcast like hypothetically Holly Ransom: Mm-hmm. Katie Campbell: speaking like that is communicating scarcity and when you're like no I'm Holly Ransom: Mm-hmm. Katie Campbell: fucked but there's like billions of people in the world that's communicating abundance so it's just like Holly Ransom: Yeah. Katie Campbell: choosing to not be a weirdo you know Holly Ransom: Yeah. Katie Campbell: like competitive weirdo. It's like, it actually is in your favor that you're communicating to source energy. Like, I'm not worried about that, you know, like know that there's plenty for everyone. And like, if anything, we need more people doing, like what we're doing and along the lines of what we're doing, I think the world certainly could use some help. Holly Ransom: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. yeah, just a little bit. Okay, there's a couple other things that I want to point out though that you just shared too. And one is what you were just sharing with going from being the heaviest binge drinker in your friend group to sober curious holistic girly publicly. Those choices, those changes, give other people permission to change too. And like, yeah, there is so much that feels imposter syndrome-y or like fraudulent of, people gonna call me out that I used to live like this and now I'm saying this? And like, yeah, they will, right? But I'd love to hear more about your experience with... embodying that change and like if you did have people say shit to you and and how you navigated that and how you really kind of rooted into yeah I was this way and now I am choosing to change and I don't care if people say that you can't change or are trying to pull me back into that reality like this is what it is Katie Campbell: Yeah, I think for

me, I didn't have a lot of like direct things said directly to me. It was more of an energy of not necessarily super supportive, not very curious, which in hindsight, I understand it may have felt like a really big shift for a lot of people who are familiar with the old version of me. And I did have one friend who I remember she said something like, Don't you feel weird? And she was saying it and I do feel this particular person is just kind of very genuine, says things. She wasn't saying it in any kind of malicious way, but she was like, do you ever feel weird talking about sobriety when you used to get like so drunk? And I'm like, well, no, because that's kind of the whole point. You know, I change, so I'm helping other people change. Would you want to hear from about like how... challenging sobriety is from someone who never drank before and doesn't understand more Holly Ransom: Yes. Katie Campbell: challenges or like I think it gives me more street cred that I was a blackout ho like okay because hello it's like now look at me and so that's more of a validity and credibility to my capacity for change and what I'm trying to share as opposed to if I was just always like a teetotaler didn't drink anything. I'm like, hey, I'm so healthy now. People are like, yeah, whatever. Cool. But when they Holly Ransom: Yeah. Katie Campbell: saw like I passed out with whole pizzas on me and then they're like, oh, you're like gardening and healthy now. OK. Holly Ransom: you Katie Campbell: And it's funny because it was really heavy for me, like in the beginning when I first stopped drinking. But now I'm like, oh, my God, that feels like a whole different lifetime ago. I have just and like some friendships have just sort of. teetered away and fallen off. And I think it's just so wild how it's so like consuming to you in the moment. Like, why aren't these people supportive? Or why aren't they happy for me? like, girl, they're like, they're done, on to the next. Like, some people come with you, some people won't. It's just like we look at relationships in this manner of which everybody should be like coming through all seasons of life. it's... Holly Ransom: Mm-hmm. Katie Campbell: It's kind of like, why would you expect everyone who is a part of your lowest to like align perfectly with the new seasons of your life and be excited, not only aligned, but like excited for you. It's, it really is too, Holly Ransom: Yeah. Katie Campbell: when you take radical accountability for your life. mean, I don't say this from any like high horse whatsoever, but it's fucking hard to do. And it's really triggering for a lot of people, even people who are genuinely happy for you, I'm like, damn, bitch, like, what? Holly Ransom: Yeah. Katie Campbell: It's very confronting to people in your life that aren't willing to do that. And so Holly Ransom: Mm-hmm. Katie Campbell: I now, it feels as though that was a different lifetime. A lot of my relationships from my 20s, I have a lot of friendships that have been from, you know. high school, middle school that I still have. But there was like this chunk of really heavy drinking time where there was like a season of relationships. Like some fell off, some shape shifted and some went away and came back. And it's kind of cool, know, you like some of the ones that aren't existent anymore. I'm like, well, I can see why I didn't even relate that much when we were drinking together. Like, Holly Ransom: huh. Katie Campbell: But it's really fun to see too that there's people who grow alongside you. There's people who drift away and then come back and they're kind of on the same page now. It's like, oh, hey, Holly Ransom: Yeah. Katie Campbell: this is kind of cool, huh? I'm like, yeah, I'm sober now too. Like me, or you know, Holly Ransom: Yeah. Katie Campbell: yeah, I'm working on myself. Doesn't necessarily have to be sobriety, you know, for everyone, Holly Ransom: Yeah. Katie Campbell: definitely for me, but. Yeah, so I think the evolution of relationships and it's cool to see something that once had such a charge and made me feel sad and I still felt so attached to that past. It's like, wow, those chords are just so gone, so much neutrality. Holly Ransom: Mm-hmm. Katie Campbell: Wish you nothing but the best, but Holly Ransom: Yeah. Katie Campbell: no desire. Holly Ransom: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. I can relate to so much of that and thank you for sharing all of the nuance of that because it's really important to... share those experiences. It's easy to keep them all inside, all those different details of the roller coasters that we go on through these decisions in our lives. And the more that we get vulnerable and share the nitty gritty details of what that process actually felt like, it's just gonna keep helping more and more people feel little less alone in their experience. But, I also just want to shout out, it is, I feel the same way that I'm so grateful to be at a point now where I don't feel that same emotional charge, but it's so important to let yourself feel the full fucking depth of the grief and the loss and the confusion and the pain and every little bit of grasping onto like, but these were my people and this was my family and I spent so much time and energy with them and what do you mean they're not coming along for the ride and like, It's okay to be human and to resist. some aspects of going through these changes. Like, for me, I was going through a spiritual purpose program as I was losing a huge chunk of my friends. And it wasn't actually when I got sober, it was more because of the decisions I made during the pandemic and the way I approached all of it with asking some questions about all these things and seeing some nuance that a lot of my friends from Tufts did not want to see Katie Campbell: yeah. Holly Ransom: the nuance. were very, you know, this is the one right way to look at this situation and it led to us no longer being friends. so I went through a huge ego

death during that period and it was. Katie Campbell: You had anybody like return at all and be like, I kind of see why you thought that or no. Holly Ransom: Not really. And I'm okay with that, actually. I unf- I think I maybe said this to you on the last, when we talked on your podcast, that like, there's such a part of me that wishes I was wrong the whole time because it's so dark. What is true? Katie Campbell: Yeah. Holly Ransom: But I also, like, I feel- or I do not feel a need for external validation from those people. Like I know that I made every single choice very intuitively, that I was very guided and those were the right choices for me. like full respect and honoring of them on their path, but that was the right choice for me. but it was such an intense period of grief that I had to take the full like several months. to almost a year of feeling really lost and abandoned before I started to connect really deeply with more aligned people in larger amounts. Like I had a couple of people that showed me a little light at the end of tunnel, end of the tunnel through Katie Campbell: Like, I just... Holly Ransom: the, like the posts that I made. yesterday or two days ago, like all of those quotes, right? Those are things that I, and when this podcast comes out, it's not going to be a few days ago, but it was one of my posts for my program, Spacious. And it's like, will I ever meet cool people who see the nuance of us being conditioned to be polarized and choose not to be black and white about things? Like, will I ever meet people who see the magic of the world? And those were the dark moments in those brief times that I like literally experienced questioning will I literally ever meet anyone again who has this perspective? Am I going to exist on an island for the rest of my life in these thoughts and beliefs? Katie Campbell: I'm conformed to like set like fixed ideologies that like I have to think this exact way in every single aspect and that's like the blessing and the curse of being highly sensitive as you are. Holly Ransom: Mm-hmm. Katie Campbell: Actually like how do you not see this incongruency and inconsistency and how this is clearly doesn't make sense compared to these data points from six months ago? Have you not been covering Holly Ransom: you Katie Campbell: that? I'm also a Virgo so I'm like I've been taking notes here. Holly Ransom: Yes! Katie Campbell: that literally contradict what they're saying right now here right here and they're like I Holly Ransom: you Katie Campbell: don't care I'm like but you can look at them they're right here recedes I'm Holly Ransom: Yeah. Katie Campbell: like oh my god they can't show somebody like directly contradicting things and I was like I don't care you are a grandma killer I think it was really hard Holly Ransom: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Katie Campbell: during that time too because it was Like the sobriety piece and evolving in your own individual life where you have people drifting apart and away

That's super intense, but the pandemic divisive polarization where if you were not conforming to the narrative that people were like vehemently villainizing you, it was a little intense there. That was some serious. Holly Ransom: It was really intense. Katie Campbell: That was worse for me than like having some friends not support me that I probably wasn't that good of friends with anyways. was like, not Holly Ransom: Mm-hmm. Katie Campbell: only is that there are people in your life, but you, I felt like, my God, people, like you walk around like, my God, if people didn't know that I chose not to get the vaccine, they might like hate me. Like at the coffee store, you know, or anywhere. It's like, you just kind of felt like Holly Ransom: Yes. Yeah. Katie Campbell: the world was against you and, Holly Ransom: Mm-hmm. Katie Campbell: and just being like, how are we not seeing this with a little bit more. nuance and yeah, I feel, you know, that I was super the hive mind of it all is like very intense when you're on the outside looking in, like I do not want to be on the receiving end of that. And then it's just goes next topic, next topic. Everyone's like, I'm mad about this now. And you're Holly Ransom: Yeah. Katie Campbell: like, okay, not mad about you don't care about vaccines anymore. Now we care about something else. Okay. Okay. Holly Ransom: Yeah, Katie Campbell: You know, so just, it's wild, it's intense, and it's hard, and I can imagine that going through like that during, you know, all together. It's a little next level when it feels like the collective rage is directed at you. Holly Ransom: Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah. yeah, I just definitely wanted to share that with anyone listening, right? It is, it's even still... Like I was just kind of highlighting this at the beginning of the episode. It's even still hard for me to speak some of that out loud because it was such an intense amount of fear and hate pointed at me and I share it now and I am stepping into the courage of sharing it now because I know that I needed to hear other people speak like we're speaking right now to know, okay, I'm not just fucking insane. Like I did not just blow up my life and piss a bunch of people off for no reason whatsoever. Like there was, you know, a solidness to the Katie Campbell: Yeah. Holly Ransom: ground that I was sitting on. But I actually want to pull this back for a second because a really important part of the stance and way that I approached the whole pandemic was... my younger experience with death and the possibility of death in my family, like illness and intensity. And I just heard you share that as a really important part of your story too, that you dealt with the totality of life from a very young age. And when the pandemic came around and there was this... in my experience, black and white looking at death as the worst possible outcome, terrible ending. Like there was a lack of the conversation of what happened after and the larger, broader spiritual perspective of what even is death? Like where are all of these people going who are passing? Like can we look at what's happening beyond just the one perspective that death is the worst possible thing ever. And it like gives me chills thinking about what you just shared that your mother had this vision of your brother saying like, you're here, we're good, I'm in the oneness. Katie Campbell: Yeah. Holly Ransom: It's pretty lit up here actually, like you guys kind of have the weird situation in that separate soup you're in. Katie Campbell: Yeah, exactly. Great way of describing it. Holly Ransom: But I'd love to hear more about your perspective of how facing that grief at such a young age and navigating, again, the totality of life, how has that influenced the way you move through the world now? Katie Campbell: Yeah, So I was 10 months old when this car accident happened and Holly Ransom: Yeah. Katie Campbell: I was actually the only person in the car that didn't get injured and we Holly Ransom: Wow. Katie Campbell: were hit by a drunk driver, which is just wild to like bring it all back to like the supernoyed, Holly Ransom: Wow. Katie Campbell: like all this stuff. And so, you know, I don't remember the Holly Ransom: Okay. Katie Campbell: aftermath of the car accident. My dad was in a coma for like a year and my older brother, he was a half brother, but he had passed away instantly. My mom said that when they were looking for us because we had, not me, I was in the car seat, but everyone else had kind of like been thrown from the car. And I have a younger, an older brother who was younger than there was. So there was my sister, my two brothers, my mom and my dad. One older brother died instantly. My younger brother was flown from the car, but they didn't find him right away. And my mom said that when she came to in the hospital, she's like, where's my son? They're like, he passed away. And she's like, I know that son passed away. She's like, I knew that Peter passed away because she had a white light experience because Holly Ransom: Okay. Katie Campbell: she broke her neck. and almost died, but she was like, I could feel myself being pulled out of my body towards a white light. And she was like, I knew Peter was there instantly. Like wherever I was going, he was there. And she was like, it was really nice. Like whatever I was being pulled towards, it felt very enticing. Holly Ransom: Yeah. Katie Campbell: But she said, she's like, I was tempted. Don't get me wrong. Holly Ransom: you Katie Campbell: But then the doctor was like, your baby needs you, your baby needs you. And she said this voice, and that was me. And she said this voice just like cut through. And she's like, I could feel like my spirit. She's like, just like whoosh, like back into her body. And then that was when she said, you know, I knew I was like, okay, my baby needs me. I have another baby. Where's the other baby too? And they're like, he. passed away and she's like,

no, not the older son. She's like, I have a three year old. And so then they like ended up going back out, finding my brother who he suffered a brain injury. And so it was just like this whole like crazy chaos, chaotic, like trauma that I was Holly Ransom: Yeah. Katie Campbell: born into. But it's just so, and it's just like really, wild because That whole experience, as much as you're like, my god, holy shit, that's crazy, but it's just shaped our lives in such interesting ways. With everything, my family is just super in tune with our spiritual beliefs. And exactly what you said is talking a lot about, we don't know what is on the other side and we are. constantly thinking, you know, this is the end all be alls like that ain't it we are strongly of the belief set that like this is probably the shit end of the stick here and it's probably way better, you know, wherever else we're going beyond here and my mom talks to my brother a lot about that because he's had moments over the years being like frustrated and resentful of the limitations of his handicaps and she's like you don't know, you know why you chose to be here like this and You could be really, like he's gotten really into artwork and he donates some of his proceeds like Mothers Against Drunk Driving and he's just the most thoughtful, he collects cans from like everyone in the town to recycle and he's just the most thoughtful, connected person. He's always praying. So I just feel like a lot of times they talk. know, tragedies shape you in ways that help you to see the greater meaning of life, and I think it's really shaped me in a way where I just kind of came in like, okay, this place is sort of sketch and like people are weird, but I just always had this firm feeling of like, I'm here to do something more. And I think that that was heavily shaped by having so much tragedy right at the start of my life and really having the veil pulled back in that way with my mom and her beliefs and And I also think it's contributed to a lot of my drinking because I did have a lot of angst of like life is meant to be more than this like what am I doing here and So yeah, certainly feel like the magnitude and heaviness of all of that early on kind of gave me a really serious start but that it shaped my belief, like even on a cellular level that we are, I'm Holly Ransom: huh. Katie Campbell: here to do something meaningful because it can be like ripped away at any moment. And so I don't think it's something I ever consciously was, I just think it was like born into the cells of my being to be like, you guys are Holly Ransom: Mm-hmm. Katie Campbell: something of the shit, you know? Holly Ransom: Yes, Katie Campbell: Yeah. Holly Ransom: yeah, thank you for sharing all of that. I actually just over the weekend did a sound bath for this really cool organization called the Pre-Dead Society. Have you heard of them at all? So I don't necessarily know the elevator pitch to share what they do and who they are perfectly to the accurate words, but it is a organization that kind of helps to break through the taboo of talking about death and talking about Katie Campbell: Thank Holly Ransom: exactly what we're doing right now, right? Questions of the afterlife, questions of what happens, questions of meaning. very scorpionic or plutonium in nature, Katie Campbell: Mm-hmm. Holly Ransom: which is right up my alley and clearly right up yours too. But it was so profound to hear them all speak about their experiences with facilitating working with people who either are... close to death themselves or have a family member who passed or whatever it is, right? We all are affected by loss. You cannot get through this life. That is like the one thing that we all have in common that we cannot escape from, But it is so Katie Campbell: Yeah. Holly Ransom: taboo in this culture to speak about death. Like you bring that up to a lot of people and they're like, what the fuck? Like I'm trying to have a good time. What? Katie Campbell: No. Holly Ransom: But. I love what you just shared because it is so true and that has been my experience as well with my sister's childhood leukemia and my dad being very close to death for more than half of my life. It is a different kind of motivator for living. It's like that Katie Campbell: Yeah. Holly Ransom: is what gave me the... the backbone behind cycles and shadows, honestly, is recognizing the importance of the, I keep saying this word, but the totality, the full spectrum of what life is. And part of that is death. Part of it is the loss and the grief and the unknown. I think death is this representation of the greatest unknown that there is. And it shows us the... of the stories that we tell ourselves. And I think from my own experience again, the story that I have come to adopt and firmly believe and connect to about the unseen and the unknown is one that gives me a lot of comfort and helps me to live my life in a more courageous way. I feel really supported by my concept of the unknown. And I think there's a lot of people still that have so much fear around death and fear around loss and fear around the unknown and that is like the largest shadow that controls your whole existence. So I'm curious to hear if you have any thoughts on all of that. Katie Campbell: Yes, I do surprise surprise Holly Ransom: you Katie Campbell: Actually, I don't gotta go no so You know because I a client earlier and we are talking about how you discomfort avoidance of discomfort is the quote that goes something like suffering equals pain multiplied by our resistance to it and Holly Ransom: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Katie Campbell: So true and death is just like the greatest discomfort in our society. I don't know if you've ever had dopamine nation, but it's just all about how we're so hooked on quick dopamine and like no one ever wants to be uncomfortable. And today we were talking about, you know, escapes and just our desire to numb out and distract. And I was

like, it's not even about the escape. It's about or what it is. It's about the avoidance of discomfort. And if we just accepted Holly Ransom: huh. Katie Campbell: that discomfort is going to happen some days and the more we try to avoid or resist it the worse it gets the more we suffer and that instead when we just look at it as a natural part of life you know and I think similarly death is the same thing it's like Discomfort only has the meaning we apply to it. If we apply to discomfort that it's one of our greatest catalysts for growth, that it's a part of a natural healthy life, just like having a cold and getting sick is a part of a healthy immune system. It's like these things that we're trying to like completely get, completely take off the table at what cost. at the cost of being less dynamic, less healthy, less self-aware. It's like, why are we trying to rid every bit of sickness and discomfort from our human experience? Because that's what adds the depth. That's what allows us Holly Ransom: Okay. Katie Campbell: to learn. It's all part of the process of getting to, you know... Getting the most out of life while we're here and so that is definitely where I feel you know the greatest Discomfort is death and people don't want to look at it and one thing you said that really stood out to me is my beliefs around it actually give me a lot of support and that's the Holly Ransom: Mm-hmm. Katie Campbell: beautiful part of Excavating your beliefs and shining a light on the shadows is Holly Ransom: Yes. Katie Campbell: you get to shape how you relate to them and you don't have to Holly Ransom: Mm-hmm. Katie Campbell: let them be the scary thing anymore you get to say actually I believe death is probably way better than this shithole. And I can actually believe that I want to make it as amazing here as I can while I'm here. And they're going to be cheering even more loudly for me, all my guides, when I get to the better place. You know, it's like, you get to choose whatever you want to think and how you ever, however you want to relate to it and why choose like, oops, probably nothing, probably wrong. Holly Ransom: Yeah. Katie Campbell: It's like I mean, maybe we do I'm not claiming to be fully right but I'm Holly Ransom: Yeah. Katie Campbell: claiming that I'd rather choose and explore rather than either let my Unexcavated beliefs rule me on a subconscious level or choose ones Holly Ransom: Mm-hmm. Katie Campbell: that aren't supportive. Why would I want to do either of those things? It like Holly Ransom: Yeah, totally. Katie Campbell: I totally resonate with that as well. Well, actually I feel really great about death when I Have given myself permission to explore what it means to Holly Ransom: Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, Katie Campbell: my thoughts. Holly Ransom: thank you. I love it. Those are great thoughts. I think, too, just going off of what you just said, that it's, I want to just directly name that, of course, I also still have fear of

the unknown, and it's not like I'm Katie Campbell: Yeah. Holly Ransom: just all day like... total guarantee we're good, I'm taking care of, I'm float into the sky. Like I still have fear, I still, especially like our nervous systems, right, naturally want to protect us and so I feel those, like I feel that resistance still and I Katie Campbell: Mm-hmm. Holly Ransom: have all the things, but when I am present enough to relate to it from a more centered place, that's when I feel the good vibes about it all. Katie Campbell: Yeah. Totally. I mean, same like I used to have so much anxiety thinking like, what am I going to do with my mom when my mom dies? Like, what am I going to do? Holly Ransom: Okay. Katie Campbell: Like, what am going to do? And it's like, we've only gotten closer to her dying because we're all aging here and we're all going towards the same place. And Holly Ransom: Mm-hmm. Katie Campbell: I feel like though my belief in I just think there is just this beautiful peace and I'm not peaceful all the time, just like you said. struggle with uncertainty and I have my moments where life feels overwhelming, like all of those things, but it is so cool to find that relationship with God or flow or divine intelligence where you do surrender a little bit to the unfolding of your life and you do believe like everything will work out in my highest favor and if I'm present with my life as it's happening, I'm not really going to have any regrets, you know, so That's kind of the most that you can hope for and what I've realized, I've actually felt like more peace around thinking about loved ones passing and stuff like that when it's like, okay, well, Holly Ransom: Hmm. Katie Campbell: you're sober, you're spending quality time with them, you're in your integrity, you're trusting the unfolding of your life. I don't know, it is something that I've started to... feel more, not just around death, but just in even the trajectory my life takes over the past few years more so deeply. Holly Ransom: Yeah, thank you for sharing that. That brings up for me, going back to my dad's health battle for 12 plus years. I have learned a lot about my own experience of grief through that and my own experience of how I relate to losing loved ones or the thought of losing loved ones. and there is so much nuance that I don't hear spoken of outwardly as much where There is this very human experience of all of the, like my mind goes to all of the things he'll miss, like me having children or getting married or those different things that it even makes my heart ache saying it, you know? Katie Campbell: So. Holly Ransom: And a whole different part of me because my dad has really struggled to be fully of this world for the past 12 years and hasn't really left the rehabilitation facility that he's in besides little outings around town. Katie Campbell: Yeah. Holly Ransom: So he hasn't really been involved in my life in that large of a way in the past 12 years. So there's also a

part of me that excited is not the right word, but feels a sense of... I guess, yeah, peacefulness, hopefulness, that I have this belief that I actually might feel closer to him when he is in the spirit realm, because I relate to my ancestors and my guides and loved ones past. in a way that I can actually communicate to them and know that they are around me and feel their presence in a different way when they're on the other side versus in 3D reality. And this happened with my grandmother recently as well. Katie Campbell: Yeah. Holly Ransom: And like, I don't hear enough people saying that that again, excitement is definitely not the right word, but just this limited range of, yeah, of yes, Katie Campbell: almost like they're liberated from their suffering. Holly Ransom: the release of the suffering and the hopefulness of actually connecting to this person in a different way, in a more whole way that like, I, it's gonna make me emotional. I want him to see my life and I know that when he is in that different space which you know can literally come at any time and that's been the whole past 12 plus years of my life but as you just said with the tragic accident it's like it could be any second of anyone's life but I am excited for him to see more of my life than he has and Katie Campbell: Yeah. Holly Ransom: It's like, it's weird to say that in a culture that really doesn't celebrate or uplift or share that belief so openly. Katie Campbell: Yeah. Holly Ransom: So yeah, I just like, as I've talked to other spiritual sensitive souls, I've been able to really relate and process. my whole navigation of grief and feel not so alone or like crazy for thinking those things. Katie Campbell: Yeah. Holly Ransom: So yeah, I just I wanted to share that here for anyone who's listening who just like you said, like has this more full perspective of trusting the unfolding of it all and just being present with the people that we love while we have them and knows what's next but we can tell a nice story about it. Katie Campbell: Yeah, one thing what you're saying that I think a lot of is that my belief system is that somebody is you know their highest most vibrant like energetic version of themselves when they pass over so it's almost like you know, his limitations and health capacity as a human is preventing him from having a whole relationship with you that may be a vantage point in the spiritual realm. He really gets this Holly Ransom: Mm-hmm. Katie Campbell: in and appreciated it without the shadow of like limited health or, limited capacity that's kind of like clouding his ability to have that full connection to you here and be able to really participate in your life like to the extent you would want him to. And so that's where, you know, and I've, I, my niece, my sister, my sister and her mom were super close in age and her, both her parents like really struggled with like drug addiction and her dad passed away when a couple of years ago. and completely different situation but she did almost feel like I do feel like I'm capable of having like this connection with him now that I couldn't have when he was here because he was like Holly Ransom: Yes. Katie Campbell: altered with substances and he wasn't like himself and that Holly Ransom: Mm-hmm. Katie Campbell: spirit realm I feel like I could connect to the highest version of him and really like feel his pride in me and feel like his appreciation of the life I'm creating from an unadulterated state of mind. I was thinking Holly Ransom: Mm-hmm. Katie Campbell: of that and I really get what Holly Ransom: Yeah, yes, yes. And see, that's like, that's the beauty of that it is not an isolated experience. Like a lot of people share this perspective and it's just not as commonly talked about. So I'm really glad that this is where the conversation ended up today. Katie Campbell: I know lots of I love talking about that type of stuff and I've it's funny. I'm like, I've cried on my podcast quite a few times. I'm like, well, we are sensitive souls. Like, you know, what do you Holly Ransom: Yes. Katie Campbell: like? Like, we're going to be crying on here, you know? Holly Ransom: you Katie Campbell: I'll cry with you if you want. Holly Ransom: my gosh, I have actually, I have been. As I said to you, I think before we started recording, I've been in a really expansive period in this past two weeks especially. And I have cried like 17 times a day in the past two weeks at all different things, at a song, at a post on Instagram, at my own posts on Instagram, at a flower Katie Campbell: Bye. Holly Ransom: and a boy. It's like... I just, having a lot and it's mostly gratitude tears of just like, wow, this is, I'm releasing so much emotion, so much energy from all of these different versions of me, even yesterday version of me, right? Who didn't know that this was possible. And I am living in this. what once was a total fantasy and a dream that I had and I heard you say kind of the same thing of like this is such a different reality than we were once in and I can Katie Campbell: What? Holly Ransom: totally relate I think I shared this on your pod too that like At Tufts, I was drinking a bunch with my friends all the time. We were partying like crazy. I was smoking weed every day, multiple times a day. When I moved to New Hampshire, I was working at a cocktail bar, ripping tequila shots, like blacking out every once in a while and being the wife of the party. would get, I would twerk on people and like I was having a wild time. I was, when you said falling asleep with a box of pizza on you, it's like, yeah. definitely was existing for many years in a savage mode. Katie Campbell: Yeah, that's totally the thing for me like full sounded Holly Ransom: Full of savage and honestly the season I'm in right now feels like reintegrating parts of that savage self that was just actually like my wild, joyful, free, liberated, like I do love to party, but I don't need alcohol to do

that. I could actually be completely sober. I love exotic dances. I can pop a five milligram edible and have a great time. Like I don't need that much to vibe, but I do want to still give myself permission to let it rip. And I feel like that's That has been a part of the, like, letting go of that stuff in sobriety. It took me some time to re-navigate, like, allowing myself to have fun still and let loose still. I went through kind of like a cardboard chapter. Katie Campbell: Yeah, but you like, you're like, whoa, dude, what's happening? Like I'm sober, everyone's drunk. I don't know. I thought I was Holly Ransom: Yeah. Katie Campbell: outgoing. Maybe I'm introverted. I kind of hate everyone. I'm confused. And you're like literally Holly Ransom: Yeah. Katie Campbell: re-figuring out who you are without alcohol. And I feel the same way now where I'm finally just like, okay, I'm like a weirdo and I like being weirdo. But like I, it took me like a while to get here. I haven't spent 16. Holly Ransom: Yeah. Katie Campbell: It'll be six years for me in July, but it's like. I thought I was comfortable in my own skin, but it's like, just am fully feeling like I get what like old ladies who just stop giving all fucks like feel like I'm like, yes, I'm finally getting there. That's like the Holly Ransom: Yes. Katie Campbell: version of myself I'm like psyched about. But it was like, I did feel awkward and early sobriety. And that was paired with trying to force myself into like old realities, not drinking and then being like, what's going on here? Whereas like now it's I'm like at your gatherings and like podcast recordings and just like the why was like an exercise class or whatever, you know, so it's just like fun, different, like more aligned environments that allow me to feel more Holly Ransom: And then. Katie Campbell: authentic too. And I want to try an ecstatic dance. That sounds really fun, but it's funny Holly Ransom: Yes. Katie Campbell: because I've seen a lot of like this, like pushback, you know, cause there is a lot of like sobriety seems to be like on the rise lately. And obviously there's Holly Ransom: Mm-hmm. Katie Campbell: like extreme wellness and people were like gag me like this is too much. But then there's also these people are like, just like smoke your butts and like drink your drinks. Like who cares? Like have some fun, live a little and like that whole thing. And I was Holly Ransom: Mm. Katie Campbell: like, I get it. I actually do understand what you're saying because it's like, but I'm also just I feel like the programming, the societal programming has been working against us for so long that like most people don't need to hear that. People who like Holly Ransom: Yeah. Katie Campbell: finally are getting comfortable in their own skin like kind of get it. You know, it's like, yeah, you can, you should just be able to like go have a drink and like not be so worried about being perfect or like healthy. It's like Holly Ransom: Later. Katie Campbell: not gonna, it's part of like living, but then I'm just like it, but I also just want people to hear the message as well that. Like you really can just have fun and enjoy yourself without doing anything. it's that is Holly Ransom: Yes. Katie Campbell: actually so liberating. Like even if you do decide Holly Ransom: Okay. Katie Campbell: to drink every once in a while, also giving yourself permission to like not exclusively associate like going out and having fun needing to include alcohol because Challenging Holly Ransom: Mm-hmm. Katie Campbell: yourself to reclaim that childlike savagery sober is like really fun and then sometimes you Holly Ransom: Yeah. Katie Campbell: realize like maybe I don't need alcohol as much as I thought I did anyways, even if maybe you're not someone who needs to get a hundred percent sober Because I just think we have such limited belief systems like again around that Holly Ransom: huh. Katie Campbell: I'm not of the mindset that we need to be like doing everything perfect and super healthy and rigidly at all. You know, I'm definitely of the mindset that like 80-20 for me alcohol is not included in the 80-20. It's off the table, but maybe for some Holly Ransom: Yep. Katie Campbell: people it is, but also just really exploring like, do I need this when I go out or do I just, can I take it or leave it? I think the take it or leave Holly Ransom: This way. Katie Campbell: it attitude is really what you kind of want to have. If it's like repeated Holly Ransom: Mm-hmm. Katie Campbell: every time, you might want to think about that. Holly Ransom: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Totally. Katie Campbell: So, but it's been, it's been so cool to, I love the word savage because I just, I feel like, yeah, it's like, again, those identities where it's like, we are either this or this, like you're either like a drunk savage or like you're a boring sober person. It's like, can I just be like a sober savage kind of? Holly Ransom: Mm-hmm. Sober Savage! If we do a... when, sorry, when we do a yurt circle together, Katie Campbell: I love you. Holly Ransom: it's gotta be Sober Savages. Katie Campbell: God, I know, right? It's like true, though. Like people is like, you don't have to just be boring and like not do anything ever, you know? So it is definitely a Holly Ransom: love that. Yes, we can have it all. Katie Campbell: wild little ride, but the awkward phase is real. Holly Ransom: The awkward face is real, yes, yes. But it's helped me to gain and grow and fucking marinate in so much confidence. I am so much more confident now. having Katie Campbell: yeah. Holly Ransom: found it only within myself and I am totally on the same page of I am very 80 20 about a lot of things in my life that does not include gluten dairy or alcohol. I cut those bitches out completely. If I was living in a different country, I might be able to do the gluten and dairy, but I Katie Campbell: You don't want buy a facade? Holly Ransom: want a little bit

of glyphosate in this body, this temple. Katie Campbell: Oh my god, I should do that. I should do it. Seriously. Bye bye, gluten. But yeah, it is, I know, they're trying to kill us. That's what my husband always, he went through his Holly Ransom: my god. Katie Campbell: early conspiracy theories days. We have to have like a friend over, like they're trying to kill us. I'm like, that's, you can't do it like that. Holly Ransom: Yeah. Katie Campbell: Like that's not a good way to initiate anyone into the tin foil hat club. They're gonna run away. Holly Ransom: Yeah. Yeah, slow and steady wins the race, okay? Katie Campbell: Yeah, you've got to be like, so have you heard about glyphosate or whatever else they're adding to our root. But it's funny. Holly Ransom: pretty crazy, we should probably just consider this a little bit. Let's check it out. Question. Yes. I agree. Katie Campbell: Yeah. Just questions. Questions, not statements. Questions. Holly Ransom: my gosh. Clearly, again, we could just talk forever, but I would love to hear a little bit more about the yurt circles that you do and your group program, your membership. all the fun things. Katie Campbell: Yeah, so I do, I started just doing one-on-one coaching. So I am always doing that. I always have like a handful of clients that I work with. I'm a big quality over quantity. I don't work with tons of people, but like I go in, we have like a boxer and we, it's six months and we kind of like go dig in deeply too. mind, spirit, wellness through this lens of like sober curiosity and high sensitivity. And I also say like sober curiosity, my definition has really expanded over the years to not just Holly Ransom: Okay. Katie Campbell: alcohol, but really like, how are we checking out in our lives and Holly Ransom: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Katie Campbell: diluting our gifts? And then yeah, I my monthly sober curious sister circles in the year. They're always the last Thursday of the month. They've been really awesome. Been doing those for a couple years. Yeah, this month we're doing friendship bracelets and beading and mocktails. I always do breath work and meditation at the end, even if whether it's personal development or crafting. And then I do like collaborations with other people. We're doing a healing for healers circle. You should maybe come to that one. That's in Holly Ransom: Yes. Katie Campbell: May on May 14th. It's called Heal... Yeah, that'll be that. So there's May 14th and May 28th next month. So it'll be the healing for healers or the sober curious. And then, yeah, so I do those great. I have a little flower stand where I do cut flowers. And then I just started Sanctuary for Sensitive Souls, which is a subscription-based community. There's like 35 people in there so far. So that's. Holly Ransom: That is amazing! Katie Campbell: Yeah, so we do that. I do a monthly spiritually curious call, monthly sober curious call, a monthly set the tone call I just did today, which is all about like intention

setting for the month. Then I have like Holly Ransom: Mm-hmm. Katie Campbell: guest experts come in. So our first one is going to be on herbalism for sensitive souls. Yeah, it's like and I do like a little I a guided practice library so it's like a whole little just like space for people to come and Connect other women on a similar path like sober curiosity is as like I say spoke on the wheel, but it's all about just living a life of empowered consciousness and talking about Holly Ransom: Yeah. Katie Campbell: spiritual awakenings and like the matrix and all that Holly Ransom: Yeah. All the fun things we've been getting into. Katie Campbell: We didn't spiral on the matrix this time, just death, which is fine. Holly Ransom: Yes. Katie Campbell: So yeah, that's what I got going on. But it's always like an evolution, you know, as you know, you kind of like, it's like a creation of your own. kind of. Holly Ransom: Yeah, it gets to evolve with us for sure. Katie Campbell: Whoa. Holly Ransom: Can you share your mindful dot constitution, right? And I'll link it in the show notes, but yeah. Katie Campbell: Yeah, I'm on Instagram at mindful.constitution and I focus a lot on high sensitivity and sober curiosity and sobriety and just holistic health in general and integrative wellness, which has been like very heavy in the God lately. But, you know, I like talking about like food and stuff sometimes too. Sometimes I like talking about, Holly Ransom: Yeah. Katie Campbell: you know, mindset, little this little that. And then I'm on TikTok as the same thing, particularly unhinged over there. Yeah. Holly Ransom: Love it. Katie Campbell: mindfulconstitution.com is my website. Holly Ransom: Yeah, I will say I love your page so much. You really have nailed the memes and bringing some lightheartedness into all this stuff, because that's to me so so deeply important because it just is really dark and depressing otherwise. So yeah, folks listening, definitely go check out her page because it's hilarious and wonderful Katie Campbell: my Holly Ransom: and so many supportive things as well. Katie Campbell: Good. Thank you. Bye. Holly Ransom: But Katie, I would love to just hear if there's any final words of wisdom that you can share with everyone listening. Katie Campbell: I would just say thank you so much for having me on your podcast. I definitely want to tell everyone listening to you better like go leave this lady a like on our podcast and she's amazing. I've really resonated with everything, you know, all of our conversations and your energy in general. And so I just really love that. And for anyone listening, words of wisdom, just be yourself. It's so cliche, but it's just so true. I everything flows from just like feeling free to be yourself, even when it doesn't necessarily fit into like the boxes that are around you. You don't want to spend your whole life trying to fit in places you don't really belong. it Holly Ransom: Mm-hmm. Katie Campbell: can be hard at first, but it's so worth it to just let that freak flag fly. Holly Ransom: Yeah, yeah, yes. It makes me think of the... I'm sure there's more than one, but it makes me think of a little kid book that's like, when the fish tried to climb the tree, it didn't do very well at it, but when the bear tried to... No, bears can swim. When something Katie Campbell: I'm sorry. Holly Ransom: that knows how to climb a tree tried to swim, it didn't work. Just be yourself. Katie Campbell: Yeah, exactly. Like, stop forcing it, you know? It's just like, we spend so much time trying to contort ourselves or wonder, like, in resistance with life, Holly Ransom: Mm-hmm. Katie Campbell: with our relationships. And it's like, if you just allow yourself to be guided by the spaces you feel energetically at home and the spaces you feel energetically isolated, that's like it. You can even do it with your food and add the way you feel with the things you eat. Just thinking of like, do I feel good? No. Do I feel good around these people? No. Do I feel good at the job? Holly Ransom: No. Katie Campbell: Yes. Like whatever, you know, and just really tuning into those spaces. And that's just how we start to find flow in our lives and more vibrancy within ourselves and really kind of channel that God particle, you know? Holly Ransom: Yeah, baby. Katie, thank you so much. Thank you everyone who has tuned into this episode and this one was, you know, it may have brought up different. emotions, experiences, memories. So just give yourself so much love, a big hug. And we love you and we're here to support you if if that is something that feels aligned. And I cannot wait to see you all next week on the Cycles and Shadows podcast. Katie Campbell: Bye, thank you.