رونوشت کامل Ep. 358: California Homelessness: Lost Cause? [REMASTERED]

foreclosure notice in the mail. 00:04:10.560 --> 00:04:13.039 And that's when it all hit the fan. 00:04:13.199 --> 00:04:14.960 I was cut off from all the money. 00:04:15.120 --> 00:04:20.879 My wife knew what was going on, I think, but still, you know, I was lying and denying everything. 00:04:21.120 --> 00:04:32.639 And that's when I made the fateful decision to switch to heroin because I could just walk down one block from that intersection in the tenderloin and buy heroin on the street from the organized drug dealers that are operating out here. 00:04:32.720 --> 00:04:35.839 And I bought three dimes of heroin for 30 bucks. 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:38.160 And I'm a diabetic, so I have needles at home. 00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:47.360 So I went back onto YouTube and I pulled up one of those harm reduction videos and I learned how to inject drugs into my arm and I became an intravenous drug user at that point. 00:04:47.600 --> 00:04:50.000 And that's when everything completely fell apart. 00:04:50.160 --> 00:05:02.720 I stopped going to work, I lost my job, and basically, for lack of a better term, I was just a full-blown drug addict at that point that was prioritizing the drugs and my addiction over everything else, including my own kids. 00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:10.319 So, how common is a story like this that drug addiction begins with a prescription from a doctor? 00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:11.839 Well, it's extremely common. 00:05:11.920 --> 00:05:15.680 And in fact, it's what laid the foundation for the current drug crisis that you see today. 00:05:15.839 --> 00:05:33.439 The whole oxycontin crisis of the 90s and 2000s that started off in Appalachia and the rust belt in the United States and kind of spread across the United States where doctors were over-prescribing, where big pharma was downplaying the addictive effects of oxycontin to doctors and the FDA. 00:05:33.600 --> 00:05:34.560 And they all believed it. 00:05:34.639 --> 00:05:41.439 And at one point on the FDA's own website, they actually talked about how oxycontin was not addictive or not very addictive. 00:05:41.759 --> 00:05:44.639 Non-habit forming is the term that they actually used. 00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:52.160 Uh, and that, you know, led to at least 20 million people in the United States getting addicted to OxyContin in the 90s and 2000s. 00:05:52.319 --> 00:06:02.399 It led to pain clinics, which are were very prevalent in places like Florida, where you could just go in and say, oh, I hurt my back, and then they would write you a prescription for like 80 oxycontin pills. 00:06:02.480 --> 00:06:04.160 Uh, and then you were off to the races. 00:06:04.319 --> 00:06:21.439 And that has kind of spilled over into this next generation now with illicit drugs, because of course the government is about 10 years behind where they should be in responding to this drug crisis and restricted the the prescription of opioids and oxy oxycodo and oxycontin. 00:06:21.680 --> 00:06:32.560 And so people obviously were still addicted, and now their kids were addicted, and they turned to the street, and the cartels figured out how to make synthetic fentanyl, and here we are today. 00:06:32.959 --> 00:06:33.600 Wow. 00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:38.000 Purdue was one of the main producers of oxy. 00:06:38.399 --> 00:06:41.199 Do you feel like retribution has been paid? 00:06:41.600 --> 00:06:42.560 Absolutely not. 00:06:42.879 --> 00:06:56.959 Come on, they made billions upon billions of dollars off the back of the sick and addicted in the United States, and innocent people ruined a bunch of careers of doctors who maybe meant well, but they themselves got addicted sometimes. 00:06:57.199 --> 00:07:04.160 And, you know, that there's been settlements that they've made that have been thrown out, and more settlements that have been thrown out uh at the court level. 00:07:04.240 --> 00:07:09.199 Uh and honestly, I think the Sacklers deserve to be in prison, all of them, the entire family. 00:07:09.279 --> 00:07:16.720 I think every penny that they have of assets should be seized and used to fund drug treatment across the country. 00:07:16.800 --> 00:07:20.639 And not like everybody gets a check for 12 bucks like a class action lawsuit. 00:07:20.879 --> 00:07:29.360 It's actually money put towards opening treatment beds across the United States so we can start working towards getting people healthy again in this country. 00:07:29.519 --> 00:07:32.959 And I'll just add that right now in the United States, there are over 40 million people. 00:07:33.040 --> 00:07:38.560 So we're talking about 10% of the entire population of the United States is struggling with a drug addiction right now. 00:07:38.879 --> 00:07:41.360 Jeez, I did not know that stat. 00:07:42.160 --> 00:07:46.959 Are we at risk for a repeat with any other pharmaceuticals? 00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:49.360 Well, it's it's hard to say. 00:07:49.600 --> 00:07:53.439 You know, like I said, so the cartels have figured out how to make illicit fentanyl. 00:07:53.519 --> 00:07:57.920 How they've they figured out how to purchase these three precursor chemicals from China. 00:07:58.079 --> 00:08:10.399 They put them together, mix them together in these clandestine labs in Mexico, and voila, you have fentanyl or a version of fentanyl that they've they've been able to mass produce and smuggle into the United States by the metric ton. 00:08:10.720 --> 00:08:17.279 Okay, so last year border control estimates 20 metric tons of illicit fentanyl was smuggled into the United States. 00:08:17.519 --> 00:08:34.639 So, yeah, we are in danger because you can mix that drug with a bunch of different things, and you're seeing it in places like Philadelphia, where now you hear about this drug called trink, which is xylazine, which is a horse tranquilizer not meant for human consumption, being mixed into the fentanyl because it enhances the effects of the fentanyl. 00:08:34.720 --> 00:08:41.120 But the side effects of it, because

it's not meant for human consumption, is that you're seeing people's flesh rot right off of their bodies. 00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:45.039 You're seeing necrosis actually occurring amongst amongst users. 00:08:45.279 --> 00:08:58.879 And so you're seeing all these different variations start to come out that are just you know adding to the overdose deaths and adding to the suffering and making it harder and harder and harder for us to get people off the street, off the drugs, and into recovery. 00:08:59.200 --> 00:09:00.799 That is intense. 00:09:01.200 --> 00:09:03.919 You mentioned the role of the cartel. 00:09:04.320 --> 00:09:08.240 You yourself ended up working for the cartel at one point. 00:09:08.399 --> 00:09:09.679 Tell me how that happened. 00:09:10.080 --> 00:09:11.759 Well, it indirectly, okay. 00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:14.159 So I was a homeless drug addict on the street. 00:09:14.320 --> 00:09:19.679 And so what happened is that you have these organized drug dealers in San Francisco, they're all from Honduras. 00:09:19.840 --> 00:09:20.399 That's a fact. 00:09:20.480 --> 00:09:22.240 It's not a racist thing to say that. 00:09:22.399 --> 00:09:28.879 It's well documented that we have anywhere between 500 and 1,000 organized drug dealers operating in San Francisco. 00:09:29.039 --> 00:09:36.639 And the cartels have figured out some type of pipeline from Honduras to bring these young men and women up here to sell illicit fentanyl on our streets. 00:09:36.799 --> 00:09:40.399 And they don't just sell fentanyl, they sell meth and crack cocaine and powder cocaine. 00:09:40.639 --> 00:09:41.759 They're drug dealers. 00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:48.000 And one of the common things that they do is they use people that are homeless on the street, addicted to drugs, as decoys. 00:09:48.159 --> 00:10:03.279 So they would, for example, have me hold their stash of drugs, and they would pay me with heroin or crack cocaine to hold their stash of drugs so that if they got busted on the street corner, they only had a very small amount of drugs in their possession, but I was holding like two ounces, right? 00:10:03.440 --> 00:10:06.399 And the cops are going to just look at me and be like, oh, he's just a homeless guy. 00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:07.519 We're just going to leave him alone. 00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:10.879 And that that actually is something that's very common on the street. 00:10:11.039 --> 00:10:14.399 It's a form of exploitation because, hey, I was a drug addict. 00:10:14.480 --> 00:10:18.639 I was pretty much willing to do anything, including stealing, to get those drugs. 00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:22.240 So this guy's handing me a dime of heroin and say, hey, just put this in your pocket. 00:10:22.399 --> 00:10:24.399 I absolutely went for it, right? 00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:31.120 And that worked out for about three months until one day the police decided to do a sting operation on the block that I was on. 00:10:31.360 --> 00:10:35.120 And that day I happened to be holding for six different drug dealers at the same time. 00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:37.759 So I had about four and a half ounces of drugs on me. 00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:38.240 Jeez. 00:10:38.559 --> 00:10:42.639 And uh the it's interesting, the cops weren't looking for the dealers, they were looking for the guy with the drugs. 00:10:42.799 --> 00:10:52.480 So I took off running around the corner, tried to jump on the bus, it was coming down the street, and I turned around and an unmarked police car came up and they busted me with all this all these drugs on me. 00:10:52.639 --> 00:10:55.120 You know, if you've ever watched The Wire, you're thinking, oh man, that's it. 00:10:55.200 --> 00:10:56.159 I'm gonna go to prison. 00:10:56.320 --> 00:10:57.679 I got booked into jail. 00:10:57.840 --> 00:11:03.919 I spent 16 hours in jail, and then they released me back to the streets on my own recognizance with no bail. 00:11:04.080 --> 00:11:05.360 So they just let me go, basically. 00:11:05.679 --> 00:11:06.000 Hold on. 00:11:06.080 --> 00:11:07.360 Yeah, that's confusing. 00:11:07.600 --> 00:11:09.519 So because you're right. 00:11:09.759 --> 00:11:13.679 We a normal person would think, like, okay, jail time, here we go. 00:11:13.919 --> 00:11:16.480 But like, you didn't even have to pay anything. 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:17.759 They just let you out. 00:11:18.080 --> 00:11:18.960 They just let me out. 00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:19.440 Yeah. 00:11:19.679 --> 00:11:23.120 So this is, you know, criminal justice reform in a nutshell, right? 00:11:23.200 --> 00:11:31.519 Of what we're witnessing here, where it's like, you know, they recognize, okay, he's not the drug dealer, he's obviously a drug user, despite the fact that I had four and a half ounces of heroin on me. 00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:34.559 And I got charged with felonies, you know, for holding all those drugs. 00:11:34.639 --> 00:11:36.320 I had a bunch of misdemeanors too. 00:11:36.480 --> 00:11:46.960 But, you know, with the current reform-minded outlook around criminal justice and public safety in California and really across the United States and most places, they didn't feel like I was a threat. 00:11:47.039 --> 00:11:48.960 So they let me go with no bail. 00:11:49.120 --> 00:11:53.759 And of course, I just returned right to the street, right back into homelessness, and I went right back to the block. 00:11:53.840 --> 00:12:01.279 I showed the dealers the jail wristband that they gave me as kind of like my badge of proof showing that yes, I didn't take off with your drugs. 00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:03.360 I actually got busted by the police. 00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:10.159 And it's interesting, the dealers all kind of just shrugged and they were like, Yeah, we understand it's like part of their overhead. 00:12:10.240 --> 00:12:15.440 They understand that this happens from time to time, and I didn't get hacked up with a machete or anything like that. 00:12:15.519 --> 00:12:25.519 They knew that

I went to jail, and the whole deal was that if I was going to hold these drugs and get paid in drugs, if I got busted, I had to take the fall because I had all the drugs. 00:12:25.759 --> 00:12:30.240 So now if I snitched on them, I would have been hacked up with a machete or killed. 00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:33.279 So you can't do that, and that's the deal that you make out there on the street. 00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:40.240 And those are the kinds of impossible deals that you will make as someone struggling with addiction when you're homeless on the street. 00:12:40.480 --> 00:12:48.159 You would do things, you do things in your addiction that you would never normally do had you been sober or not addicted to drugs. 00:12:48.399 --> 00:12:53.120 And I could say the same thing about my family and the things that I did to my wife and kids. 00:12:53.360 --> 00:12:54.960 Of course I love my wife and kids. 00:12:55.039 --> 00:12:57.120 I love them with all my heart, and I'd do anything for them. 00:12:57.200 --> 00:13:06.480 But when you're addicted to drugs, addiction actually implants itself in your brain as one of your basic survival instincts, right alongside food and sex and fighting. 00:13:06.720 --> 00:13:08.799 Here comes addiction too, implanting itself. 00:13:08.879 --> 00:13:12.000 And so you start prioritizing that over your own kids. 00:13:12.159 --> 00:13:16.799 So, you know, I'm not proud of it, but I did things like drive under the influence with my kids in the car. 00:13:16.960 --> 00:13:22.559 I did things like go down to the tenderloin and buy drugs with my kids in the car, and this is before I became homeless. 00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:26.159 And all of those things my kids remember, and it's part of their experience. 00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:29.679 And it's something that we had to go through a lot of counseling to work through. 00:13:29.840 --> 00:13:39.279 But I'll say this that recovery from addiction is the only thing that gave me an opportunity to make those things right, to make amends to my wife and kids. 00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:45.679 And so now I can honestly say, you know, it's I'm six years clean and sober, and I I reconciled with my wife and kids a couple of years ago. 00:13:45.759 --> 00:13:49.279 They were willing to forgive me, but it took a lot of work, a lot of effort. 00:13:49.440 --> 00:13:52.080 And most of all, it took me staying clean and sober. 00:13:52.399 --> 00:13:52.799 Yeah. 00:13:53.039 --> 00:14:05.279 And this, I imagine, is why you are against the live and let die kind of thinking of let's let addicts decide when they're ready to get clean. 00:14:05.679 --> 00:14:15.759 Well, look, that idea may have had some merit 10 years ago when we're talking about heroin, because when you use heroin, you can live for 30 years as a heroin addict. 00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:18.559 It's not a pretty existence, but you're alive. 00:14:18.799 --> 00:14:19.200 Right? 00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:22.240 But fentanyl doesn't offer you that time. 00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:32.879 From what I've seen on the street right now, and I'm out on the street often, all the time, talking to thousands of people on the street, the average lifespan is like two to three years for people once they switch over to fentanyl. 00:14:32.960 --> 00:14:33.519 That's what it seems. 00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:34.559 Now that's anecdotal. 00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:45.360 I don't have evidence of that, but I can tell you right now that your lifespan will be dramatically shortened with a drug that's ten to a hundred times stronger than the drug that you were using previously. 00:14:45.679 --> 00:14:57.679 So that type of mindset of supporting drug users until they're ready, which is the current harm reduction mindset, the current mindset within most of drug policy in the United States is not working. 00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:04.399 And it's not working because the people that they are supposedly supporting are dying anyway from fentanyl overdose. 00:15:04.639 --> 00:15:09.679 So we as a community must make a decision to intervene to save those lives. 00:15:10.159 --> 00:15:21.120 So when you were experiencing homelessness and you were living, you're sleeping in a doorway, I think someone would wonder, like, well, why couldn't you get shelter? 00:15:21.679 --> 00:15:23.360 Well, so for a couple of reasons. 00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:25.519 First of all, I didn't know where I could go to get shelter. 00:15:25.759 --> 00:15:26.879 I want to make that clear. 00:15:27.039 --> 00:15:31.840 There's 8,000, somewhere between 8 and 20,000 homeless people in San Francisco. 00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:36.320 There's 47,000 homeless people in Los Angeles and the city of Los Angeles. 00:15:36.399 --> 00:15:42.960 If you went down to Skid Row and started asking people, do you know where you can go to get treatment in San Francisco or in LA? 00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:44.000 They wouldn't know. 00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:44.960 They wouldn't know. 00:15:45.200 --> 00:15:51.279 They might know where there's a shelter because in LA they do have a bunch of shelters down on Skid Row, but San Francisco doesn't have that. 00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:53.200 We've got like four shelters in the whole city. 00:15:53.360 --> 00:15:53.679 Oh. 00:15:54.080 --> 00:15:54.559 Yeah. 00:15:54.799 --> 00:15:57.440 So on top of that, you're addicted to drugs. 00:15:57.679 --> 00:16:02.159 So you you can't use drugs inside the shelter, so that's an immediate barrier right there. 00:16:02.320 --> 00:16:12.240 There's rules inside shelters, like you can only bring a limited amount of stuff with you and you have to be in by 10 p.m., things like that that you don't want to have to follow. 00:16:12.559 --> 00:16:25.919 So, yeah, when street outreach groups like street crisis response teams go out to the street and do outreach to homeless people, you know, right now the data that's coming back in San Francisco is like 90% of the time they leave them in the same spot that they

found. 00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:30.720 And that's because they're coming at them with this approach of, well, we're gonna build rapport over time. 00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:35.759 So maybe after eight or nine visits to you, you're gonna decide that you want to accept services. 00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:38.000 Well, the problem with that, there's two problems with that. 00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:40.799 One, person's using fentanyl every 90 minutes. 00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:42.240 Every 90 minutes? 00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:43.360 Every 90 minutes. 00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:45.120 So that's a whole other thing. 00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:49.039 I did not, you are I'm sorry, I'm so naive because like I don't know. 00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:51.840 Because you you know, you were saying, okay, oxy every four hours. 00:16:51.919 --> 00:16:53.440 So I'm like, okay, yeah, that makes sense. 00:16:53.600 --> 00:16:55.279 So why every 90 minutes? 00:16:55.600 --> 00:16:56.799 Well, this is here's the thing. 00:16:56.960 --> 00:17:00.879 So fentanyl is 10 to 100 times stronger than heroin or morphine. 00:17:00.960 --> 00:17:05.359 It's 10 times stronger generally than heroin, a hundred times stronger than morphine. 00:17:05.440 --> 00:17:05.759 Okay. 00:17:05.920 --> 00:17:08.240 It also metabolizes in your body faster. 00:17:08.319 --> 00:17:14.160 So when you ingest it, it actually gets into your bloodstream much, much quicker than heroin used to do. 00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:16.880 Okay, so the effect is like literally immediate. 00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:28.400 As soon as you inhale the vapors from fentanyl or inject it in your vein, it's 100% like absorption rate in your body, and you are just gone at that point. 00:17:28.799 --> 00:17:36.960 The problem with that drug, because it metabolizes so quickly, it wears off much faster in your bloodstream than heroin used to. 00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:39.279 So you have to use it more often. 00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:51.920 So for folks on the street right now, where you used to be able to go six to eight hours between doses of heroin, you are now having to use fentanyl every 90 minutes to two hours to avoid withdrawal. 00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:58.000 So what you end up finding out a lot is that you end up seeing people on the street that aren't even getting high anymore. 00:17:58.240 --> 00:18:00.000 They just don't want to go into withdrawal. 00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:01.359 They don't want to get dope sick. 00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:02.720 They're afraid to get dope sick. 00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:10.160 So they're using it every 90 minutes to two hours as they can get money to do so, but not have that to not experience that feeling of withdrawal. 00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:14.400 And for anyone out there that's listening that's in recovery from addiction, you know what I'm talking about. 00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:24.079 It's one of the scariest things and maybe one of the biggest barriers of all to anyone that's using an opioid, okay, a heroin or oxycodone or oxycontin. 00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:43.839 It's maybe the biggest barrier of all for people to seek treatment, is they're afraid of those feelings of withdrawal, which feel like the flu, COVID, and stomach flu, and like you're getting kicked in the stomach all at the same time, and you end up wrapped up in a ball and a cold sweat throwing up all over yourself for hours and sometimes days at a time. 00:18:44.079 --> 00:18:45.359 So people don't want to feel that. 00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:47.839 So this is the difference with fentanyl. 00:18:48.079 --> 00:18:52.640 And because of it, and and then because of that 100% absorption rate, people love it. 00:18:52.799 --> 00:18:57.039 I've had people describe it to me, and I would describe it too, as someone put a warm blanket over me. 00:18:57.279 --> 00:19:08.480 When I smoked fentanyl, I remember just this warm, fuzzy feeling coming over me, and I just remember walking down the street and I kept bumping into the wall because I couldn't control my leg movements because I was so high. 00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:13.200 And eventually I passed out in a doorway and I woke up like two hours later in a crouch. 00:19:13.599 --> 00:19:17.200 The problem is too many people aren't waking up now, they're just dying. 00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:22.559 And so again, this is why we need that type of intervention that's beyond just supporting drug users. 00:19:22.640 --> 00:19:37.920 You're gonna have to start compelling people on the street, that subset of people on the street that are committing those behaviors of stealing, of bipping cars, breaking into cars, of selling their bodies for drugs, holding drugs for the dealers, things like that. 00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:43.119 They have to be held accountable and they must be compelled towards some type of treatment solution. 00:19:43.519 --> 00:19:45.519 Thank you for that education. 00:19:45.680 --> 00:19:48.240 There was so much there that I had no idea. 00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:54.000 And, you know, we often ask about this about well, why can't they find a shelter? 00:19:54.160 --> 00:20:04.480 And I didn't know that people didn't know that there were shelters, or I find it very odd that San Francisco is so much larger than Pensacola, Florida, and yet we have more shelters than you. 00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:05.519 That's unusual. 00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:09.200 So what happens after people get shelter? 00:20:09.680 --> 00:20:12.960 Well, the idea is that you get connected to services. 00:20:13.119 --> 00:20:22.400 You hear that whole thing, you hear this whole thing, there's this whole argument around homelessness is primarily a housing problem, and we need to provide housing plus services to people. 00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:28.880 And I agree to an extent that housing is a large equation in the homeless issue and resolving the homeless issue. 00:20:29.039 --> 00:20:41.359 But what I try to frame to people and make people understand is that by the time you get down to the street where

you're living in a tent and you're smoking fentanyl or meth all the time, you're beyond just let's give you an apartment. 00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:42.480 You're beyond that. 00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:43.920 You need treatment. 00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:46.160 Treatment is what solves addiction. 00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:56.720 And when you take someone and you house them in supportive housing, uh, and then they have what they call wraparound services available that are there, but they're voluntary, voluntary. 00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:04.400 That means that that individual who's addicted to fentanyl is not required in any way, shape, or form to access any of those voluntary services. 00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:05.599 So what ends up happening? 00:21:05.839 --> 00:21:10.400 They continue to use, but now they're using a loan behind a locked door in their own apartment. 00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:11.759 And what happens to them? 00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:23.279 Well, in San Francisco right now, we're averaging 30 overdose deaths a month inside of what we call our SROs, which are single resident occupancy apartments for people that were formerly homeless. 00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:38.160 30 people a month are dying inside supportive housing in San Francisco right now because of fentanyl, because we've isolated them, which if you again know anything about recovery, you know that the most dangerous thing you can do to an addict is to isolate them, right? 00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:46.640 And that's what we're doing, and it's having this, you know, unintended effect of this really high rates of overdose deaths. 00:21:46.720 --> 00:21:53.759 And so that kind of brings into the quite into question are the solutions that we are putting forth to address homelessness actually working? 00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:59.759 And you know, if you just look at the money alone in California, we've spent twenty four billion dollars in the last five years. 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:05.279 On homeless services, yet homelessness grew 31% in our state. 00:22:05.599 --> 00:22:10.160 Just looking at that alone, you could make an easy argument that what we are doing now is not working. 00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:18.799 So you said that because fentanyl has changed the game, that people need to be compelled to rehabilitate. 00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:20.400 How were you compelled? 00:22:20.799 --> 00:22:26.799 Well, I I so I was on the six strikes in your outplant, in that I got arrested six times on the street. 00:22:26.960 --> 00:22:30.640 So after the first time that I got arrested, I was basically a mark by the cops. 00:22:30.799 --> 00:22:45.200 Every time the cops saw me, they were hopping out of their cars and messing with me because either I was within my inside my stay away order, which is an order a judge will put on you to stay 150 yards away in a circle from the block in which you were first arrested. 00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:49.119 So I was inside my stayway order or they caught me holding drugs again. 00:22:49.359 --> 00:23:04.799 And so, you know, I got arrested in April of 2018, and I got arrested five more times between April 2018 and June of 2018 on the street until finally after my sixth arrest, they were like, You caught too many cases too close together. 00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:06.720 We can't let you out anymore. 00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:11.359 And I proceeded to spend the next three months in county jail where I got clean. 00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:15.680 And in our county jail here in San Francisco, they give you something called medication-assisted treatment. 00:23:15.759 --> 00:23:30.640 They gave me buprenorpherine or suboxone, which is an opioid agonist that replaces the fentanyl that's in your system and stops the withdrawals so that you're able to overcome the physical aspects of your addiction easier. 00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:38.079 And they gave that to me for five days, and then they cut me off, and then I just spent, you know, the pretty much the next three months in jail just sober. 00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:40.079 I wasn't in recovery, but I was sober. 00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:42.799 And that was the kind of intervention that I needed. 00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:51.599 Now I'm not suggesting that that works for everyone, but it worked for me, and there's a subset of people on the street that require that type of intervention. 00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:59.519 So when we talk about solutions to the homeless crisis, it's really important that we frame it in this way and that we need a public health approach. 00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:12.319 It's true, but law enforcement also plays a role, and we need to figure out a way to get those two groups to start working together in earnest, much as they do in Europe in places like Portugal and in Amsterdam and the Netherlands. 00:24:12.480 --> 00:24:18.160 They found a way for public health and the police to partner together, and it's been very, very effective in their approach. 00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:19.119 Well, hey there. 00:24:19.279 --> 00:24:27.279 Since you seem to be enjoying this episode so far, double check that you've hit the follow button on your podcast listening app and subscribe on YouTube. 00:24:27.599 --> 00:24:34.640 And to join my free private Facebook group, search MFR Curious Insiders on Facebook or click the link in the show notes. 00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:36.640 Okay, back to the show. 00:24:36.960 --> 00:24:41.519 I definitely want to talk more about that in a minute, but you said something that I need clarity on. 00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:43.519 You said I was sober but not in recovery. 00:24:43.680 --> 00:24:44.640 What's the difference? 00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:45.680 Oh gosh. 00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:47.359 Uh the difference is everything. 00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:52.079 So learning how to live in recovery isn't just like going through the 12 steps of AA. 00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:55.440 Uh it's actually learning a whole new way to live your life. 00:24:55.759 --> 00:25:05.759 You literally

have to flip the script on your life and start realizing the importance of gratitude and being grateful for the things that you have as opposed to the things that you don't have. 00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:07.519 And really kind of taking that to heart. 00:25:07.680 --> 00:25:09.599 For a lot of people, that means finding faith. 00:25:09.759 --> 00:25:11.440 For me, that meant finding faith. 00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:15.279 And I'm not saying that that's for everyone, but that really was a huge thing for me. 00:25:15.599 --> 00:25:27.119 Working with other people, uh having other people that are in recovery from addiction that are in the same boat as you or that were in the same boat as you at one point, working with them so that you know that you're not alone. 00:25:27.279 --> 00:25:32.720 Learning the lessons from them, from their experience to help you kind of learn how to live again. 00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:45.759 So it's really more like I could be sober all day long, but if I don't have these tools that I learned in recovery of how to live my life differently by a different set of values than what I was living it before, I wouldn't be where I am today. 00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:54.319 And that's the big difference between just stopping drugs and actually learning how to live a life in recovery, which it's not just me, it's my whole family. 00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:58.559 My wife and my kids have embraced those same principles that I came home with. 00:25:58.799 --> 00:26:05.039 And now we as a family live in recovery, we live in faith, we're honest with each other. 00:26:05.279 --> 00:26:06.000 Is it perfect? 00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:08.160 No, we're just like any other family. 00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:12.640 But we don't have those lies, we don't have those secrets anymore. 00:26:12.799 --> 00:26:15.039 We don't have a lack of faith anymore. 00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:26.400 We really believe that whole term from the Bible, and I don't want to get all religious, but that term from the Bible about the book of Hebrews that talks about faith is believing in things you cannot see in the hope of things to come. 00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:28.319 I think it's okay to have hope. 00:26:28.559 --> 00:26:29.359 I really do. 00:26:29.519 --> 00:26:38.559 And that was the big difference is that I went from having no hope and no purpose to being full of hope and full of purpose, and that's all the difference. 00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:40.720 It's like a rehab of your spirit. 00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:48.000 Yeah, oh d look, recovery is absolutely a uh there's a spiritual aspect to it, okay? 00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:52.240 You know, I'm not a huge, like big organized religion guy, but I have tons of faith. 00:26:52.400 --> 00:27:01.039 I believe in God, you know, that whole thing, and it however you want to call God, whether it's Jesus or or Buddha or the universe, it doesn't matter. 00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:05.440 As long as you believe in a power greater than yourself, then you never really have to feel alone. 00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:09.359 And that was the the super worst thing about being on the street. 00:27:09.519 --> 00:27:10.559 Yes, I had guilt. 00:27:10.720 --> 00:27:15.119 Yes, I had shame for the things I did and not being able to see my kids and all those things. 00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:18.480 But it was that I was I felt alone all the time. 00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:23.599 And it was weird because I was in in like an encampment on the street around other people. 00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:48.000 So I wasn't technically alone, but it was like being with a bunch of people who were also all feeling alone, and we're all alone at the same time because all we could think about is our drugs, and that's a miserable existence, and we can do better, and as a community, we have to step up and do better and be better because if we don't like you're watching entire cities on the West Coast become destabilized because of drugs. 00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:53.759 Portland, Oregon has completely become destabilized because of the fentanyl crisis and the homeless crisis. 00:27:54.000 --> 00:27:57.599 San Francisco is destabilized, although we're fighting back. 00:27:57.839 --> 00:28:07.440 LA is so big, so you don't really see it, but if you go into downtown LA, 40,000 people on the street, how can you not say that they don't have this huge crisis? 00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:08.880 So it's not just here. 00:28:09.039 --> 00:28:12.640 Oakland, California is literally falling apart between crime and homelessness. 00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:14.559 It's ridiculous what's happening. 00:28:14.799 --> 00:28:16.640 And it's time for us to pivot. 00:28:16.799 --> 00:28:19.920 It's time to bring some accountability back into the mix here. 00:28:20.079 --> 00:28:22.319 We're gonna have to start holding people accountable. 00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:33.599 The criminal justice reforms aren't working here in California because we didn't provide the infrastructure that's needed to support all those changes when we released 70,000 people from prison early. 00:28:33.680 --> 00:28:36.160 And a lot of them ended up on the street or re-offending. 00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:41.279 So we just have to be real about the challenges that are in front of us and be willing to make those hard choices. 00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:42.640 And that's you know where I come in. 00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:48.160 Like you said, I try to be that bridge from the street to policymakers uh to get them to change their mind. 00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:49.599 And it's Democrat and Republican. 00:28:49.680 --> 00:28:50.880 I don't care who you are. 00:28:50.960 --> 00:28:56.319 Now, out here it's always Democrat, but I'll talk to you because it's all of our problem. 00:28:56.559 --> 00:28:57.440 It's all of our problem. 00:28:57.759 --> 00:29:03.519 So talk to me about Portugal because you mentioned 40,000 people downtown LA living on the streets. 00:29:03.680 --> 00:29:09.200 We had a small problem in Pensacola for

a time where there was an encampment underneath the interstate bridge. 00:29:09.279 --> 00:29:11.680 And it was it was really distressing. 00:29:11.839 --> 00:29:14.400 And I went to a a city hall meeting. 00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:24.400 There was a few people who had been homeless in the past who um really brought that perspective that you also have, like, hey, they need to be compelled to quit. 00:29:24.559 --> 00:29:33.200 And I I don't know, and this was a few years ago, so I don't know at what level fentanyl was prevalent compared to today. 00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:35.279 So who knows that bit of it? 00:29:35.519 --> 00:29:37.920 But how are they compelling people in Portugal? 00:29:38.079 --> 00:29:39.599 What's what's working there? 00:29:39.680 --> 00:29:41.119 What's their before and after? 00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:47.200 Okay, well, let me just preface this by saying Portugal and Europe has not experienced fentanyl yet, like we have. 00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:48.799 They haven't had the wave of fentanyl. 00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:50.559 Everything over there is still heroin, okay? 00:29:50.720 --> 00:30:04.720 But in 2001, Portugal decriminalized drugs as a country, not just in a state or in a city, but the entire country agreed to decriminalize drug possession and instead institute what they call dissuasion courts, right? 00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:09.839 It's really an administrative court where they bring people in who get busted using drugs on the street. 00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:18.000 They don't put you in jail, but they they basically bring the person in, they bring a therapist or a psychiatrist in, or they have this administrative judge. 00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:24.480 Sometimes they'll bring the parent of the guy that's using two, and they basically try to convince the person to go to treatment to get help. 00:30:24.720 --> 00:30:29.839 And while they've been doing that, Portugal built 61 therapeutic communities across their country. 00:30:29.920 --> 00:30:38.799 They built massive treatment facilities and transitional housing facilities for people so they have a place to send people when they come through these dissuasion courts. 00:30:38.960 --> 00:30:39.279 Okay. 00:30:39.680 --> 00:30:43.839 What they didn't do is they didn't open safe injection sites until 20 years later. 00:30:44.079 --> 00:30:50.000 Instead, they focused on the problem of actually building out an infrastructure to support people in recovery. 00:30:50.160 --> 00:30:54.400 And it's been very, very effective because they actually have somewhere to send them. 00:30:54.559 --> 00:31:12.319 And this is an argument that most of us agree on on all sides of this issue, is that we don't have enough resources in the United States in general, particularly out here on the West Coast, as far as drug treatment beds, shelters, transitional housing, housing, we don't have enough spaces to send people once they do go through the system. 00:31:12.559 --> 00:31:21.440 And that's part of why we're stuck in this kind of cycle over and over and over that's just been greatly exacerbated by the arrival of fentanyl on our streets. 00:31:21.680 --> 00:31:34.720 Now, what I worry with places like Portugal is that when the wave of fentanyl does hit them, and it will eventually hit them, how is this model going to play out when people are literally just dropping dead on your streets? 00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:36.160 That's one concern. 00:31:36.400 --> 00:31:40.559 But the other thing I really want to mention about Portugal is that there's a cultural difference. 00:31:40.960 --> 00:31:46.720 In the country of Portugal, they frown on drug use, they look down on illicit drug use. 00:31:46.880 --> 00:31:53.200 Like you literally have a mom open up her apartment window in the street when she sees someone using it and start yelling at the guy to stop. 00:31:56.799 --> 00:32:01.440 Here in the United States, we've been celebrating drugs in this country since the 60s, man. 00:32:01.519 --> 00:32:03.359 You know, started in the 60s. 00:32:03.519 --> 00:32:05.519 I'm a Gen X guy in the 80s. 00:32:05.599 --> 00:32:07.759 There's lots of songs about cocaine and Mr. 00:32:07.839 --> 00:32:09.599 Brownstone and all this stuff. 00:32:09.759 --> 00:32:16.640 You know, so we've been kind of celebrating drugs as in the drug culture in this country now for a for several decades. 00:32:16.960 --> 00:32:23.519 And, you know, the weed's not a big deal, it's legalized, and shrooms aren't a big deal, it's gonna be legalized eventually. 00:32:23.599 --> 00:32:25.119 And okay, well, where do we stop? 00:32:25.279 --> 00:32:35.359 So are we gonna just start giving out fentanyl patches to people and you're gonna have a bunch of folks walking around addicted to to opioids, which is a terrible, damaging, expensive addiction. 00:32:35.519 --> 00:32:36.799 And then who's gonna pay for it? 00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:41.680 This is what kills me is all the harm reduction is saying well, we need a safe supplier, we need to legal legalize drugs. 00:32:41.759 --> 00:32:43.839 And I'm like, drugs aren't free. 00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:53.680 You know, the cartels aren't doing this to be altruistic, they're making like$70 billion a year between drugs and human trafficking and avocados. 00:32:53.839 --> 00:32:55.680 I mean, they're making a ton of money, right? 00:32:55.839 --> 00:32:56.240 That's random. 00:32:56.480 --> 00:32:57.279 And avocados. 00:32:57.519 --> 00:32:59.839 Well, they they do, they're in the avocado business, right? 00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:09.200 So my point is that, you know, a lot of these folks that talk about drug legalization, harm reduction, they're like, well, you know, if we just legalized it and gave it out to people, people would do better. 00:33:09.279 --> 00:33:10.720 And I'm like, well, who's gonna pay for it? 00:33:10.960 --> 00:33:12.240 Like, the government's gonna pay for it. 00:33:12.319 --> 00:33:15.440 And I'm like, do you really want your government

to be a drug dealer? 00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:20.000 Are are you willing to give up your tax dollars to fund someone's addiction? 00:33:20.160 --> 00:33:20.880 Are you really? 00:33:21.200 --> 00:33:22.559 I have a clarifying question. 00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:23.599 Sorry to interrupt. 00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:30.960 So because you said Portugal decriminalized, and now you're talking about you know, the potential harms of legalizing. 00:33:31.279 --> 00:33:39.920 And I, for one, have a hard time understanding the difference between those two because I mean they sound kind of similar. 00:33:40.160 --> 00:33:44.000 So can you kind of educate me on how are those different? 00:33:44.319 --> 00:33:49.519 Well well, most people assume when you talk about Portugal, they say, Oh yeah, Portugal, Portugal legalized drugs. 00:33:49.599 --> 00:33:50.160 No, they didn't. 00:33:50.240 --> 00:34:02.640 They decriminalized drugs, which means that instead of you going to prison with a felony because you have two and a half grams of fentanyl in your possession, you get it, you get your drugs taken away, maybe, maybe not. 00:34:02.799 --> 00:34:08.960 You get a citation to a peer in court where they then try to urge you to go to treatment. 00:34:09.039 --> 00:34:11.280 But you don't get arrested and get taken to jail. 00:34:11.440 --> 00:34:12.960 That's decriminalization. 00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:27.920 Legalization would would mean that you get to go into what amounts to what, like a modern day uh marijuana dispensary, except it would be for heroin or fentanyl, and you'd be able to go in there and go, yeah, I think today I want to try the black tar heroin, uh, let me get a gram of that. 00:34:28.079 --> 00:34:29.679 And you'd be able to take it and go use it. 00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:38.559 Now, of course, the harm reduction people are like, no, no, it would be dispensed, you know, pharmaceutically in a tight-knit program, and I'm sitting here thinking, well, we already do that. 00:34:38.639 --> 00:34:40.400 It's called a prescription, right? 00:34:40.639 --> 00:34:42.480 So what are they really asking for? 00:34:42.639 --> 00:34:55.440 And decriminalization is that first step towards legalization, and I just say that as a warning to people because right now our current drug policy in the United States, the largest drug policy lobbying group in the United States is the Drug Policy Alliance. 00:34:55.599 --> 00:34:57.440 I have no problem calling them out. 00:34:57.599 --> 00:35:03.679 They received a 10-year,$50 million grant from the Soros Foundation to operate. 00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:06.960 And I say that again, I'm a Democrat from San Francisco. 00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:13.920 They push for decriminalization, end of the war on drugs, and eventually want drug legalization. 00:35:14.159 --> 00:35:17.039 And they are the biggest lobbyists in Washington, D.C. 00:35:17.199 --> 00:35:18.159 around drug policy. 00:35:18.320 --> 00:35:33.760 And so people like myself and others

have finally gotten together and we've coalesced, and we're pushing back on that with our own group that's trying to take a more pragmatic, kind of middle-of-the-road approach that focuses on recovery from addiction, not giving people more drugs. 00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:35.920 I have another follow-up question. 00:35:36.159 --> 00:35:44.079 So thank you in advance for all of your patience with my what probably seem like overly simplistic clarifying questions. 00:35:44.159 --> 00:35:47.519 Um, but hopefully someone out there is helping them also. 00:35:47.920 --> 00:35:56.079 Because we started this conversation with you talking about how your very own addiction began through a pharmaceutical prescription. 00:35:56.320 --> 00:36:07.199 And we're now we're talking about how legalization of drugs and their recreational access can also cause problems. 00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:21.199 But isn't there this like middle place where instead of an NFL athlete being given these very addictive narcotics for his knee pain, that we could give him, you know, weed cream. 00:36:21.440 --> 00:36:32.639 And and uh also therapeutically, instead of, you know, long, drawn-out, very expensive sessions, someone could have three sessions of ketamine or one session of ayahuasca. 00:36:32.800 --> 00:36:35.519 And actually it would help them overcome their addiction. 00:36:35.679 --> 00:36:44.960 I know there's some some research out of University of Alabama, Birmingham specifically studying the use of psilocybin to overcome addiction of cocaine. 00:36:45.119 --> 00:36:55.119 Like, isn't there like this like middle place where we use plant medicine in a way that ancestral communities have leveraged them and not just willy-nilly in the club? 00:36:55.440 --> 00:37:00.239 You know, I probably I've heard conflicting studies on both sides of that. 00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:04.800 And I don't look that for me, like the ship has sailed on marijuana for a lot of people. 00:37:04.960 --> 00:37:07.920 I mean, California it has anyway, is legal here, you know. 00:37:08.159 --> 00:37:16.480 And I understand if you're gonna use it in that way, the way you describe, to help overcome like a football injury or something like that, I think that that's great. 00:37:16.719 --> 00:37:21.760 I think the issues that we're running into now are the lack of regulation around some of these things. 00:37:21.840 --> 00:37:30.000 So if we're going to decriminalize or legalize psilocybin and weed and all that, I think it's I think it's reasonable to have some regulations around it. 00:37:30.159 --> 00:37:33.039 I mean, even alcohol has regulations around it, right? 00:37:33.280 --> 00:37:39.280 You get pulled over, you're drinking and driving, you take a you take a breathalyzer and it's 0.08 and you're done, right? 00:37:39.519 --> 00:37:41.280 Well, there's no way to do that for weed. 00:37:41.440 --> 00:37:48.559 I mean, I don't know how many times I've stopped at the gas station to gas up, and the dude next to me comes out and he his car's reeking of marijuana. 00:37:48.639 --> 00:37:57.519 So now I know that that guy's driving under the influence, but nothing's gonna happen to him because if he gets pulled over, there's really no way for us to tell, right, if he's under the influence or not. 00:37:57.679 --> 00:37:57.920 Right? 00:37:58.000 --> 00:38:01.280 There's no instant breathalyzer test that you can take or anything like that. 00:38:01.440 --> 00:38:11.760 So I'm not opposed to exploring different ways that you can use some of these plant-based items to help people manage their pain. 00:38:12.079 --> 00:38:17.280 What I'm concerned about is the one plant-based one that's truly addictive, which is opium. 00:38:17.360 --> 00:38:24.079 Okay, that's the one that's really destroying our communities, and meth, which is a chemical that's not even plant-based. 00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:33.199 And we've now departed from opium, and we're using chemicals to make fentanyl that's 10 times stronger, or carfentanyl, which is a hundred times stronger. 00:38:33.280 --> 00:38:35.440 So now we've moved into this chemical world. 00:38:35.599 --> 00:38:52.159 And I don't know, you know, we could introduce these plant-based uh substances to help people, but for too many that are already addicted to that substance, it's such a long road back to even that, that we need to just start by stabilizing people, getting them off of that drug. 00:38:52.239 --> 00:38:55.119 And if that means using these other drugs to help with that, then so be it. 00:38:55.199 --> 00:38:59.840 Because to me, any of those things is better than being a fentanyl addict. 00:39:00.159 --> 00:39:04.480 Fentanyl, like literally, is like the lowest common denominator in addiction. 00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:11.760 Like if you're a fentanyl addict, you cannot function, you cannot go to work, you can't hold on a job, you can't support your family. 00:39:11.920 --> 00:39:13.840 Like you can't do any of those things. 00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:25.039 And so I think we just need to understand that this drug, this particular drug has changed the game, and we need to pivot our approach to actually meet the actual change that has occurred as a result. 00:39:25.440 --> 00:39:29.840 So, how do we make that pivot in dumpster fires like San Francisco? 00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:33.360 Because you you gave us this beautiful picture of Portugal, right? 00:39:33.440 --> 00:39:40.400 Where it's like, okay, step one, decriminalization, step two, step three, and that's really cool. 00:39:40.800 --> 00:39:47.920 But I mean, San Fran, LA, like fan shit, it's already mixed together. 00:39:48.159 --> 00:40:02.880 So, like, how what would be, if you were in in charge, what would be your first step towards compelling people who are living in encampments and getting high every 90 minutes to become clean and sober? 00:40:03.199 --> 00:40:07.760 Well, look, you know, you're gonna have to start forcing some people to go into

treatment that are on the street. 00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:17.199 You just have to, that means you're gonna have to invest deeply in creating a lot of treatment spaces really fast, and you're gonna have to invest deeply in creating a lot of shelter space really fast. 00:40:17.360 --> 00:40:22.159 If I were the governor of California, I would declare a state of emergency on homelessness in the state today. 00:40:22.320 --> 00:40:22.639 Okay. 00:40:22.880 --> 00:40:37.679 That would unlock federal dollars and that would stop all the NIMBEs who don't want a shelter in their neighborhood, and I would just put up FEMA tile style shelters around as many communities as I could, because you have to understand we have 191,000 homeless people in California. 00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:43.920 It's not like we have two or three thousand, two hundred thousand people experiencing homelessness, and it's probably more than that. 00:40:44.079 --> 00:40:53.280 And when you add in Oregon and Washington, we have half the entire homeless population just in those three states, in all of the United States, just in those three states in this country. 00:40:53.440 --> 00:40:53.760 Okay. 00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:59.840 So I would treat it like you know how we look at natural disasters, but it's even more than that because it's really a man-made disaster. 00:40:59.920 --> 00:41:11.760 But you have to take that type of approach where you have to call in the federal government for help, the core, you know, the Army Corps of Engineers to build out those big tent-like shelters, call people in for service from the National Guard to help. 00:41:11.920 --> 00:41:35.920 Not to put boots on the ground with guns, but to actually help, like with triage and treatment and getting people stabilized and getting them away from that environment and getting them uh stabilized on medication-assisted treatment while you build out more permanent shelters and drug treatment, along with the housing that you've been trying for decades to build in California, that you can't do because it costs a million dollars a door here. 00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:37.440 But you still have to try. 00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:48.639 So that's where you start instead of you know, we're doing everything piecemeal here, and you're seeing an exorbitant waste of money, uh, and the results are actually going backwards. 00:41:48.880 --> 00:41:51.280 And even now, our governor, Governor Newsom, has pivoted. 00:41:51.440 --> 00:42:03.280 He issue signed an executive order the other day that ordered cities to start clearing out homeless encampments because of the Supreme Court ruling on whether or not homeless encampments can be removed, and they now can. 00:42:03.599 --> 00:42:05.679 You're not violating their Eighth Amendment rights. 00:42:05.920 --> 00:42:10.000 But we need a more comprehensive plan and treat it as the crisis that it actually is. 00:42:10.079 --> 00:42:29.760 It is a humanitarian crisis of epic proportions, and we that

this whole soft, touchy-feely way of approaching people on the street saying, well, we just got to build relationships over time and all that, that's not gonna work for a large subset of people that don't want your help to begin with and only care about getting that next hit of drugs. 00:42:29.920 --> 00:42:31.519 And that is what we need to address. 00:42:31.840 --> 00:42:43.599 Well, it's interesting now that you have described how the mechanism of fentanyl works, I mean, that's very eye-opening because it sounds more like a hostage takeover of their brain. 00:42:43.840 --> 00:42:50.960 And that feels very apocalyptic, very zombie movie, I'm afraid. 00:42:51.199 --> 00:42:56.639 So I could see where a more aggressive approach would potentially work. 00:42:56.800 --> 00:42:59.599 I mean, what we're doing now isn't. 00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:12.559 Are there any states here in the US or just in North America that are doing it right, like they had a problem and and they were able to remedy it? 00:43:13.360 --> 00:43:14.719 Not remedy, no. 00:43:15.199 --> 00:43:20.159 So there's one province in Canada, Alberta, which is where Calgary and Ottawa are. 00:43:20.239 --> 00:43:34.800 They've embraced what they call a recovery-oriented system of care for their drug crisis out there, where they're placing the focus on building out treatment and and transitional housing, uh, and they are compelling people into treatment, and they have a lot more tools than we do in the United States. 00:43:34.880 --> 00:43:38.880 They use different drugs up there, uh, along with Suboxonomethadone. 00:43:39.039 --> 00:43:48.320 They have a drug called sublicade, uh, which cops carry around with them that they can give people if they consent to it, which it nullifies the effects of opioids for thirty days in your body. 00:43:48.480 --> 00:43:48.880 Right? 00:43:49.039 --> 00:43:55.039 And you know, they have that here in the US, but it's really rare and it's like a thousand bucks a shot here, so it's not a tool that we have. 00:43:55.199 --> 00:43:59.760 And then in the United States, the city of Houston has done some good work on getting people housed and this. 00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:14.559 This is where the housing first model can actually work if it's implemented correctly, because in Houston they have no zoning restrictions and cheap land, and they're okay with prefabricated materials for housing, and so they can get housing built for cheap and fast. 00:44:14.960 --> 00:44:15.760 And guess what? 00:44:15.920 --> 00:44:17.679 They've reduced homelessness in their city. 00:44:17.840 --> 00:44:18.559 Has it solved it? 00:44:18.639 --> 00:44:20.320 No, but they're managing it a lot better. 00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:23.840 California, on the other hand, wants to decriminalize drugs. 00:44:23.920 --> 00:44:28.000 If they could, if they had their druthers, they would decriminalize drugs in this state. 00:44:28.159 --> 00:44:33.920 We have terrible criminal justice reforms that have

resulted in everything being locked up at the store when you go. 00:44:34.159 --> 00:44:38.159 And it costs a million dollars a unit to build housing here. 00:44:38.320 --> 00:44:45.039 And it drives me nuts that the progressives in this state, as a Democrat, again, the progressives in this state talk about the need for housing. 00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:47.760 Y'all have been in charge for like 15 years. 00:44:48.000 --> 00:44:52.159 You know, since Schwarzenegger left the governor's mansion, you have been in charge. 00:44:52.400 --> 00:44:54.800 Where is the housing that you keep touting? 00:44:55.119 --> 00:44:55.519 Right? 00:44:55.760 --> 00:45:09.039 You're responsible for making it easier for developers to build, yet you can continue to put more regulations and zoning exceptions in place and environmental regulations in place to make it harder and harder for people to build. 00:45:09.280 --> 00:45:12.960 And then you look around and you see 200,000 homeless people and you wonder why. 00:45:13.280 --> 00:45:21.199 So when the liberals tell you, oh, it's a housing crisis, it's a housing crisis, I just point to them and say, You guys have been in charge for 15 years. 00:45:21.440 --> 00:45:22.400 Where's the housing? 00:45:22.559 --> 00:45:27.199 You created the problem, and now they're they're they say that they're they're here to solve it and all that. 00:45:27.280 --> 00:45:27.840 They're not. 00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:40.159 It takes a more pragmatic approach with someone that's willing to be honest and recognize that building 200,000 units of housing in California at a cost of 90 billion dollars is not realistic. 00:45:40.400 --> 00:45:42.159 We need interim solutions. 00:45:43.039 --> 00:45:43.440 Wow. 00:45:43.679 --> 00:45:46.159 Well, I really am cheering you on. 00:45:46.320 --> 00:46:05.920 I I really do hope that San Francisco is something that 10 years from now, there's documentaries, plural, being made about how they turned it around and that we they are pimping you out to other cities to go do talks and be a consultant. 00:46:06.559 --> 00:46:11.039 Because, you know, it's not just about like, oh, we don't want to see it. 00:46:11.199 --> 00:46:23.760 You know, I think if we really looked inside ourselves, we are bothered by homelessness because it's it's another person experiencing something terrible. 00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:27.840 And it's not just them, it's it's their mom. 00:46:28.559 --> 00:46:34.239 Like it's their brother, it's their sister, it's their their dad. 00:46:34.320 --> 00:46:34.639 Yeah. 00:46:34.800 --> 00:46:36.719 Yeah, it's their their child. 00:46:36.960 --> 00:46:54.320 Like so someone for every person I see on the street, I will often think, like, God, I wonder how many family members that person has that are also in this city and and what that has done to that family, you know, like and and can it be can it be fixed? 00:46:54.400 --> 00:47:04.960 So I'm glad that this was a an honest discussion, A, and B, as you pointed out, a hopeful discussion because you pointed out the need for hope. 00:47:05.119 --> 00:47:06.239 So thank you again. 00:47:06.320 --> 00:47:14.800 Please tell people where they can stay in touch with what you are doing with your nonprofit and how they can uh read more about that. 00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:15.440 Great. 00:47:15.599 --> 00:47:18.400 Well, so I my biggest platform is on X or Twitter. 00:47:18.480 --> 00:47:18.960 You can find me. 00:47:19.119 --> 00:47:20.880 My handle is TWolf Recovery. 00:47:20.960 --> 00:47:23.920 So I encourage you to look at my page and give me a follow if you can. 00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:25.920 Uh, and then I also have my own nonprofit. 00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:29.039 It's called the Pacific Alliance for Prevention and Recovery. 00:47:29.199 --> 00:47:33.440 It's associated with a larger foundation called the Foundation for Drug Policy Solutions. 00:47:33.519 --> 00:47:36.239 Their website is gooddrugpolicy.org. 00:47:36.400 --> 00:47:37.760 I suggest you go take a look. 00:47:37.840 --> 00:47:40.719 You'll see a bunch of pragmatic folks, including Dr. 00:47:40.800 --> 00:47:45.280 Kevin Sabet, Patrick Kennedy, General Barry McCaffrey, that are all a part of this organization. 00:47:45.519 --> 00:47:52.079 We're trying to bring a more balanced approach that's focused on recovery to America as a solution to its drug crisis. 00:47:52.400 --> 00:47:53.440 Thank you again, Tom. 00:47:53.599 --> 00:47:55.440 I really appreciate your time. 00:47:55.519 --> 00:47:56.079 This was great. 00:47:56.400 --> 00:47:56.719 Thank you. 00:47:56.880 --> 00:47:57.360 My pleasure. 00:47:57.440 --> 00:47:58.559 Thank you so much. 00:47:59.280 --> 00:48:00.239 Thanks for listening. 00:48:00.400 --> 00:48:04.320 Since you've made it this far, I'd like to invite you to be part of my private Facebook group. 00:48:04.480 --> 00:48:07.039 And there I post content I don't share anywhere else. 00:48:07.199 --> 00:48:10.400 You can talk to me directly, and I even do occasional giveaways. 00:48:10.559 --> 00:48:15.039 Search MFR Curious Insiders on Facebook or click the link in the show notes. 00:48:15.199 --> 00:48:21.119 If you liked this episode, you'll also like the one with the man who lived in the Las Vegas underground city. 00:48:21.280 --> 00:48:23.119 That's episode 317. 00:48:23.280 --> 00:48:28.800 And stay tuned next week when I talk with a sex educator about fetishes, why we hide what turns us on. 00:48:28.960 --> 00:48:31.119 Until then, keep it curious.