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Host:
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Chuck Runyon is the CEO at Self Esteem Brands, which is
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includes Anytime Fitness and also Waxing the City. And he and
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his business partner Dave Mortensen, co founded Anytime
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Fitness is just been an incredible, incredible success
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story, and they got a new book called LoveWork inspire a high
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performing work culture at the center of people, purpose,
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profits and play. So Chuck, welcome to the show.
Chuck Runyon:
00:01:05
Thanks for having me.
Host:
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How in the world, wasn't Anytime Fitness, like the
Host:
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fastest growing gym for like, 10 straight years or something?
Chuck Runyon:
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It was. And I want to take people back a little bit
Chuck Runyon:
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to this pre digital era, right? We were launching this in like,
Chuck Runyon:
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late 2001 2002 and in fact, we launched our first Anytime
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Fitness before the first iPod. So there were no smartphone. Was
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any Facebook. And so there was, you know, this idea of having a
Chuck Runyon:
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key fob that would open up every gym door in the world, right?
Chuck Runyon:
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Was just unheard of. And also, people do it and they go to work
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because of lack of service, or they might have some safety
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concerns, and so we really created the category of these
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type of clubs. They just didn't exist prior to Anytime Fitness.
Chuck Runyon:
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And you know, I think, like most entrepreneurs, they have that
Chuck Runyon:
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story where, you know, people would tell them this idea is not
Chuck Runyon:
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going to work, and it was no different for us. I mean,
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friends, family, industry experts said this idea will
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never work, and that's always a reminder for any of the
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listeners out there that you know that every idea seems crazy
Chuck Runyon:
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until you prove that it works, and now it suddenly seems pretty
Chuck Runyon:
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common. So but we, you know, we, we stayed steadfast, hoping the
Chuck Runyon:
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idea would work. We weren't 100% certain, and we applied
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ourselves. We created this concept. We launched our first
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gym in May of 2002 in Cambridge, Minnesota. And then the first
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couple years, I mean, we're just scratching and clawing to grow
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this, you know, and we started to really reach some, some
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acceleration there in 2005 and then the it just really took
Chuck Runyon:
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off. And from 2005 really, till now. And it's number one, it's a
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testament to the business model. But then number two, the fitness
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industry has had tremendous growth too, so we're also riding
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some of those tailwinds.
Host:
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Yeah. So for people that don't know, I mean Anytime
Host:
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Fitness, I think you know, most people kind of get from the
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name, oh, it's 24 hours, like, highlight some of the other
Host:
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unique points. So like, what kind of what you're talking
Host:
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about here with the key fob?
Chuck Runyon:
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Yeah, so for members, right, prior to Anytime
Chuck Runyon:
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Fitness, you'd have to drive a little bit farther to a
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neighborhood club, and you could only use it during the hours of,
Chuck Runyon:
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say, 5am to like 10pm or 11pm and but with any time we brought
Chuck Runyon:
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it closer to your home or work, because we're in a typical strip
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center that you might find with your drive through or your dry
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cleaners, your subways, your grocery stores, and so we're
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very conveniently located, but also you can access our stores,
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24/7, 365, and so you can come in anytime you want. It's
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typically about five to 6000 square feet, so they're a little
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bit smaller than a big fitness club, yet, so they create a
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little bit more comfort and intimacy. Yet you you get all
Chuck Runyon:
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the programming and equipment you'd find in a big club. And so
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that mixture of convenience and connectivity and being part of
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the community, you know, really appeals to our members. So that
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was, from a member perspective, very convenient, but from an
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owner perspective, it was such a simple model, because you didn't
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always have to be there and the club still operated, so your
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payroll costs would be lower. You'd have less headache of
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having to manage so many people in comparison other franchise
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opportunities. And you know, we gave our elders some freedom on
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offering things like personal training or yoga or some things
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they were passionate about. So it really appealed to both our
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franchisee as a consumer as well as our members as our consumer.
Host:
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You have such a clear culture, yet you gave
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franchisees some flexibility in terms of what you allowed them
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to offer.
Chuck Runyon:
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We did, and you know that is, we're trying to
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always balance standardization in the franchise so that every
Chuck Runyon:
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club looked and felt the same, but yet we wanted to, like,
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Load full transcript
amplify the community, passion and personality of our owners.
Chuck Runyon:
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And that's, by the way, not always easy to do, and when done
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right. I mean, it's wonderful for the community and for our
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franchise owners. When it's done wrong, we have to fix those
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inconsistencies, and, you know, the experience nationally, but
Chuck Runyon:
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yeah, I mean, we look at Dave and I as entrepreneurs are
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always fighting for our franchise owners, and in a
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typical franchise system, I mean, you get no decision. You
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know, Whatsoever you have to run the playbook, you know,
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absolutely airtight. And you know, because someone signs a
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check to us, and it's a big part of their life savings. Dave and
Chuck Runyon:
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I want to give them a little bit more autonomy with any time
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fitness they're going to have in another brand. And so we've
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always kind of encouraged them to bring a little bit of
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personality. If there's something they're passionate
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about locally, whether it's a type of fitness class or, let's
Chuck Runyon:
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say, a charitable cause, they can get behind that to do things
Chuck Runyon:
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locally, and so it doesn't have to be standardized across the
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country. A couple of things people are fascinated by that.
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If you came to our global headquarters here in Minnesota,
Chuck Runyon:
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I think we're the only corporate campus I know of that has a full
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time tattoo room here in our corporate headquarters. And over
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the course of the last 15 years, I'm gonna guess that we've spent
Chuck Runyon:
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over a half a million dollars on tattoos, because we've had over
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3000 people get them, and we either pay for them or reimburse
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for them. And so the average tattoo is at least 100 to $200
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and so someone will send us a photo. They tell us a reason why
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they're getting this, any you know, Running Man tattoo, and
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they can personalize it anyway they want. And so we collect
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these stories, and it's always about some personal
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transformation they've made in their life, or they've helped
Chuck Runyon:
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someone make they've empowered someone to live a better life.
Chuck Runyon:
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And so it always comes back to that, you know, that purpose
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driven benefit that we've given someone or given ourselves. And
Chuck Runyon:
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so it's, it's far be bigger than just treadmills. Me open 24
Chuck Runyon:
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hours. I mean, this is really about changing lives.
Host:
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So how in the world do you justify reimbursing 3,000 people
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for a tattoo is driving profit?
Chuck Runyon:
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You know, thankfully, I wasn't very good
Chuck Runyon:
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at the finance part of this growing up. I don't know. I
Chuck Runyon:
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mean, it don't, don't get me wrong. We have business optics
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on this that we have to, we have to measure. But we also use a
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term here called R, o, e, i, which is return, unemotional
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investment. And I just believe that a business can do more than
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just make money. And so I don't really know how to measure it,
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other than the fact that, man, it's like currency for the soul,
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right? I mean, not everything important can be measured. And
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so, you know, I just know that we've literally changed a
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person's life. We've changed 10s or hundreds of 1000s of people's
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lives, and we may never know that impact, but when our
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franchise owners put their head to their pillow at night and
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they go to sleep, man, it just it feels good to know that you
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stand for something that is meaningful in that community at
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a time when, unfortunately, the world's getting to an
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unhealthier place. You know, our values are that, hey, we're
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going to help people like get to their best selves. It may start
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with fitness and they start with coaching. May start with
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empathy, but, and I guess that's just tough to measure, other
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than you know that it's, it's currency for the soul. It's the
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only way I can really, really state it. You know that return
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on emotional investment, and yet you guys are crushing it. Yeah,
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we will surpass 4000 units in 33 countries, operating in 17
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different languages, on five continents. And I think we're
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one of only maybe 15 franchise brands to ever do that, and no
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one's done it in that amount of that speed, right that amount of
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time. So we've probably likely done something no other
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franchise brand has ever done before.
Host:
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So let's talk about profit, since we're since we're
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on that because so the book is called LoveWork. It's written
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about a culture, and then you've got these four P's, people
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purpose, profits and play. So what is your philosophy towards profits?
Chuck
Runyon:
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I mean, look, it is the financial life blood of a
Chuck Runyon:
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business. And this was written specifically for those who are
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involved in a small to medium sized business. And make no
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mistake, you have to have financial profits in your
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business as why we work and the four P's are a formula that has
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to be linked together. But we make very clear in the book that
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if you take out profits, the other three cannot sustain
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themselves, right where, if you take out, say, purpose, you can
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still have a sustainable company with, like, people, profits and
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play. But I mean, again, you have to make money in a
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business. And by the way, when you're making money that
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provides opportunities for your team, you can reinvest in them,
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and you can change more lives which has more purpose and play.
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So, you know, financial, I mean, you have to, you have to
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perform, you have to make money. And so we talk about that, and
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you know, some of the and by the way, the book, I hope, like,
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when people read it, they get a sense of empathy for just how
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tough it is, and how much we admire those who who own their
Chuck Runyon:
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own business. And it tells us some, really, some stories about
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how we made mistakes, about when we were a smaller business, we
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just weren't very good at strategic planning. We weren't
Chuck Runyon:
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very good at budgeting, and we weren't very focused in how we
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apply our resources. And I can tell you if, after doing this
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now for 20 years and working with small businesses, most
Chuck Runyon:
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small small businesses are not very good at strategic planning.
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They're just not very rigorous or disciplined in their
Chuck Runyon:
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financial planning. And if I could go back in time, I wish I
Chuck Runyon:
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can do that. So this book walks you through some of that, and
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specifically how to do some of that for as being a small to
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medium sized business and but, but make no mistake. I mean
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this, you have to make money, you have to show profits to have
Chuck Runyon:
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a growing, successful business. And so, you know, that is the
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lens we operate from. We also talked about the currency
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lifestyle, but you know, a lot of it focused on knowing your
Chuck Runyon:
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numbers, knowing your strategy, and making sure. Or that
your
Chuck Runyon:
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business is improving and growing.
Host:
00:10:02
So talk to me about purpose. How does the company
Host:
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find its purpose, or where does that come from? Or how do you
Host:
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bring that about?
Chuck Runyon:
00:10:07
Yeah, so in the book, we talk about like, you
Chuck Runyon:
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know, what if you sell widgets, right? What if you're not in the
Chuck Runyon:
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fitness space like we are, we give you some tips on how to
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find your purpose and how to elevate it within your company,
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amongst all of your stakeholders. So we're very
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explicit in that. But I got to tell you, you know, I remember,
Chuck Runyon:
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I've been in the fitness industry beyond almost 30 years
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now, and in my early years, I didn't use purpose, I didn't
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really understand how it would move people, how it would
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amplify their performance. And then I learned it with Anytime
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Fitness and the books, they'll give you some moments on when,
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like, I had this epiphany, and I started to see the difference on
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how it, like, really deeply stirs people from the inside,
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and like, you know, takes them to another level when it comes
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to, you know, working a little bit harder, asking an extra
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question. I mean, going the extra mile on behalf of the
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consumer. And so, you know, if you think just in basic terms
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of, you know, IQ, you know, using your head, and then what I
Chuck Runyon:
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like to call heart power and brain power. Yeah, you've
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combined those two. And so I really want to make sure that
Chuck Runyon:
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our team has their hearts into this initiative, not just a
Chuck Runyon:
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brain into this initiative. And when they put those two things
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together, I'm telling you, it really amplifies performance of
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a team of individuals and and I can just see it in their eyes.
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And so, you know, in the facts are right, millennials
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specifically, would rather work for a company they believe in
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and earn less than work for a company they don't believe in
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and work more. In our industry employs a considerable amount of
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millennials, so it's important to them that they have values
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and they can align with what the company stands for, and so and
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but I actually said, I think this is every generations now is
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kind of aligning to that. But if you do employ millennials, I
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mean, they care about more about purpose than maybe previous
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generations. And so to me, it just comes on performance. So
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it's, there's like, I call it the economics of purpose. It's,
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you know, people, I mean, they will get out of they would jump
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out of bed on a Monday morning ready to tackle that problem
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because they believe in the mission. They believe in what
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the company stands for, and as if it's combining your heart
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power
Host:
00:12:05
What are some things as the leader that you think you
Host:
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guys do that helps sort of cultivate that sense of purpose?
Chuck Runyon:
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Yeah, one of my favorite movies is It's a
Chuck Runyon:
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Wonderful Life with George Bailey, and we talk, you know,
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George Bailey, if you remember, gets a chance to see what would
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have happened if he was had never been born? Right? How
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would his town and the people around him been impacted? And so
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we use that as one of the examples in the book is, what if
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your company had never existed? Right? Who would be impacted,
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whether it be providing jobs to some of your employees, or
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whether it's the value of your products and services and how
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they're making your met your consumers lives better. And so
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start with, if our business didn't exist, who would be
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impacted? And then once you start to see, hey, look, yeah,
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we are doing something that provides value to people. Now
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you've got to find a way to tell that story. And so we do that in
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our internal meetings. We actually invest in some videos
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to, you know, share how we've impacted our franchise owners,
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00:13:00
impacted our members. And so, you know, I think a CEO has to
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be, in part, a storyteller of how the brand impacts the world,
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right, how, with the service and product we provide, how it
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enriches people's lives. And so we just frequently do that in
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various forms of medium, whether it is, you know, written,
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whether it's oral storytelling at our meetings, at all staff
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events and at our annual conferences, that's the
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signature moment when we invest in some very nice creative
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videos to explain that, hey, we do more than just make money. We
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actually impact people in profound ways. And so once you
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find out how you do it, now you gotta invest in some
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storytelling. It's so easy to identify with a cause. I mean,
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that's another thing, if you just make something like
Chuck Runyon:
00:13:39
shoelaces, right? It doesn't seem like it's that romantic or
Chuck Runyon:
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that that sexy or life changing. But guess what? Any company can
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go out there and find the cause to identify with. There are so
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many, you know, big or micro causes in your community. Find
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one. You know, you can have your company devote a little bit of
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time, a little bit of resource, a little bit of money, host some
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fundraising events, you know, galvanize your team around a
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cause. I mean, that's another idea here in the book. It does
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not have to be a direct link, like we are to health. You know,
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if you make something that's a bit more obscure, there's still
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no excuse why you can't infuse some purpose into your company
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by saying, hey, that's what we stand for, and we want to help
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this, you know, this cause or this group of people.
Host:
00:14:20
Not to suggest that those of you that are in the shoelace
Host:
00:14:23
making business aren't important. You're saying that
Host:
00:14:25
this, this storytelling, that's one of the most important roles
Host:
00:14:29
of like, you know, the CEO.
Chuck Runyon:
00:14:30
I really do, the CEO has to be the one, or, you
Chuck Runyon:
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know, the senior leadership team. It's about Look, here's
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what the values of our organization, here's what we
Chuck Runyon:
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stand for, here's the impact that we have. And in our
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strategic meetings, I mean, we will mix some of these purpose
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stories to say, look, if we do X, we will get y, like, we'll
Chuck Runyon:
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get the financial return. But let's also talk about the you
Chuck Runyon:
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know, what's going to happen to the frantic center? What's going
Chuck Runyon:
00:14:54
to happen to our employees, what's going to happen to our
Chuck Runyon:
00:14:57
members. We talk in, sometimes the emotional. And sometimes in
Chuck Runyon:
00:15:00
what's very difficult to measure, we talk about that
Chuck Runyon:
00:15:03
because, again, our team cares about more than just reporting a
Chuck Runyon:
00:15:07
profit. And so yes, I do think it's important to get buy in.
Chuck Runyon:
00:15:10
It's got to be top down. And I think the CEO has to mention it
Chuck Runyon:
00:15:13
in, whether it's a State of the Union to the team, whether it's,
Chuck Runyon:
00:15:16
you know, to the network, but I think it
has to be part of the
Chuck Runyon:
00:15:20
storytelling that goes on frequently, and I even do it in
Chuck Runyon:
00:15:23
social media, whether it is through Twitter or through
Chuck Runyon:
00:15:26
Instagram or through our internal dashboards. I mean, I'm
Chuck Runyon:
00:15:29
always trying to put out there. You know, here's what we do,
Chuck Runyon:
00:15:32
here's what we stand for, and here's how we're going to
Chuck Runyon:
00:15:35
improve people's lives.
Host:
00:15:36
Let's talk about play. You got people purpose, profits and
Host:
00:15:40
play, and you're you. You got play as a centerpiece of your
Host:
00:15:43
culture. Talk to me about the balance of work and play.
Chuck Runyon:
00:15:47
I think it is a balance. I think it's the one
Chuck Runyon:
00:15:49
big aspect that most leaders really struggle with, because
Chuck Runyon:
00:15:52
they've, you know, they're serious, right? They want to get
Chuck Runyon:
00:15:55
serious work done. And so in the book, we talk about there is
Chuck Runyon:
00:15:58
science behind play in the workplace and how it fosters
Chuck Runyon:
00:16:01
collaboration and creativity and alleviate stress. And we use
Chuck Runyon:
00:16:04
terms like, let's take the work seriously without taking
Chuck Runyon:
00:16:07
ourselves seriously, and that makes us more approachable,
Chuck Runyon:
00:16:10
which gives us better relationships with our with our
Chuck Runyon:
00:16:13
franchisees. But you know, even in our meetings, right? We can
Chuck Runyon:
00:16:16
be kind of playful, which allows us to to be, you know, to be
Chuck Runyon:
00:16:19
vulnerable and like put up ideas on the wall that may or may not
Chuck Runyon:
00:16:22
work or seem foolish, but that may lead to another idea. The
Chuck Runyon:
00:16:25
simple fact is this, we spend over half our waking hours at
Chuck Runyon:
00:16:28
work. We do this more than we sleep. We spend more time here
Chuck Runyon:
00:16:31
than we do with our friends and family. And I just think we
Chuck Runyon:
00:16:35
should have a little bit more fun. It doesn't mean we don't
Chuck Runyon:
00:16:38
take the work seriously. But you know, seven out of 10 people
Chuck Runyon:
00:16:41
drive to work like disenchanted with what they're doing. They're
Chuck Runyon:
00:16:44
emotionally neutral, or they hate their work. That's
Chuck Runyon:
00:16:47
according to Gallup, and that has not moved in like, 20 years.
Chuck Runyon:
00:16:50
Seven out of 10 people hate their work. I'm like that to me,
Chuck Runyon:
00:16:53
seems like a miserable existence. I want to drive to
Chuck Runyon:
00:16:55
work something I'm going to devote over half my waking hours
Chuck Runyon:
00:16:59
to at something I enjoy, with people enjoying something I
Chuck Runyon:
00:17:01
stand for, and so I gotta have fun. And you know, I'm telling
Chuck Runyon:
00:17:05
you, there is you can there's a science behind it. It is another
Chuck Runyon:
00:17:08
one of the four P's that just elevates your team's
Chuck Runyon:
00:17:10
performance. And I know leaders have a tough time like embracing
Chuck Runyon:
00:17:14
it, but if, but if you read the book, it has ideas in there,
Chuck Runyon:
00:17:17
it's got tips in there, it's got some stories there, and it has
Chuck Runyon:
00:17:20
the data and science to show that play in the workplace makes
Chuck Runyon:
00:17:23
sense.
Host:
00:17:23
Alright, I have one more question for you. So before
Host:
00:17:26
that, where do you, where should people go, Chuck, if they want
Host:
00:17:28
to connect with you, or, you know, learn about the book, or whatever.
Chuck Runyon:
00:17:32
They can get the book on Amazon. It is just
Chuck Runyon:
00:17:34
simply LoveWork. One word, by Chuck Runyon and Dave Mortensen.
Host:
00:17:37
Awesome. Well, the last thing, if somebody is listening,
Host:
00:17:40
let's say they are a medium sized business owner, a big
Host:
00:17:43
business owner, even small business owner or whatever.
Host:
00:17:46
What's the very first thing you would tell them, the first thing
Host:
00:17:50
you can do that will start to move the needle on restoring the
Host:
00:17:53
health of your culture.
Chuck Runyon:
00:17:54
Be very transparent, be very vulnerable,
Chuck Runyon:
00:17:56
and get your team like just simply go sit with them, asking
Chuck Runyon:
00:17:59
questions. Say, Hey, I would love to improve the workplace
Chuck Runyon:
00:18:02
culture here. I think we all would, right. We all want a
Chuck Runyon:
00:18:05
better place to work. How can we do that? I mean, just your team
Chuck Runyon:
00:18:09
is eager to give great ideas and to give perspectives, and they
Chuck Runyon:
00:18:12
want a great workplace environment too. They really do.
Chuck Runyon:
00:18:15
And so this is not just all dependent on the leader, right?
Chuck Runyon:
00:18:18
Just simply go to them and say, I don't have all the answers,
Chuck Runyon:
00:18:21
but let's make a goal here in the next year to have a great
Chuck Runyon:
00:18:24
workplace environment. That is that's all about high
Chuck Runyon:
00:18:27
performance, but can also be about more. It can be, we can
Chuck Runyon:
00:18:30
have some fun along the way, and we can, we can impact some
Chuck Runyon:
00:18:33
people. How can we do that together? So I think if you
Chuck Runyon:
00:18:36
really bring the team in, and they all buy in, and they can
Chuck Runyon:
00:18:39
all weigh in, man, you get you suddenly got the whole team
Chuck Runyon:
00:18:42
aligned to like making this a great place.
Host:
00:18:44
Chuck Runyon, Chuck man, thanks for being an innovator
Host:
00:18:48
and for advancing the currency of the soul. I really appreciate
Host:
00:18:52
it, man.
Chuck Runyon:
00:18:53
Been a pleasure. Thank you very much.