رونوشت کامل Roberto Moreno - Part 2

--> 00:02:56.885 I had a Formula One contract. 29 00:02:57.165 --> 00:03:02.229 I've done some laps in a Formula One car in Brazil a couple of times. 30 00:03:02.569 --> 00:03:03.409 What was that like? 31 00:03:03.469 --> 00:03:08.693 I mean, this is the stuff of dreams for most people, and you're getting to drive it. 32 00:03:08.713 --> 00:03:15.417 I know it seems, I think, that chapter was both blessing and tough, wasn't it? 33 00:03:15.497 --> 00:03:17.799 It was too soon for me to drive a Formula One car. 34 00:03:18.399 --> 00:03:20.461 That's the bottom line. 35 00:03:20.481 --> 00:03:20.721 Okay. 36 00:03:20.761 --> 00:03:20.961 Okay. 37 00:03:23.948 --> 00:03:31.713 My 81 Lotus ground effect, it was just too soon for a young kid, skinny, weak. 38 00:03:33.014 --> 00:03:34.154 But they knew that. 39 00:03:34.735 --> 00:03:37.016 They just wanted me under contract for the future. 40 00:03:37.536 --> 00:03:42.579 So they gave me some laps to make publicity and see how I could do. 41 00:03:42.639 --> 00:03:45.241 But they realized it was too soon for me. 42 00:03:45.261 --> 00:03:46.381 But... 43 00:03:48.011 --> 00:03:53.212 I was a Lotus Test driver like Nigel Munsell was before he became a full-time driver. 44 00:03:54.893 --> 00:03:56.553 It was something new in those days. 45 00:03:57.334 --> 00:04:01.175 It started with Nigel Munsell and then me and then a couple other people later. 46 00:04:03.795 --> 00:04:07.577 But that kept me around racing. 47 00:04:07.777 --> 00:04:16.119 Now, Ron Toranac knows a lot about me and Pee Wee talks a lot to him about me and he's pushing for me. 48 00:04:18.566 --> 00:04:37.684 sometime during the 81 season, I think four or five races into it, a team from Holland who had purchased a route from Toranac for a driver... 49 00:04:39.138 --> 00:04:50.721 son of the owner who had an accident in December before the championship started and damaged his face in a road accident. 50 00:04:51.742 --> 00:04:57.203 He rode a Jeep in France and damaged his face, had to reconstruct his face. 51 00:04:58.204 --> 00:05:02.605 And the owner said to the team and they say, look, you already. 52 00:05:03.525 --> 00:05:04.946 have a team going in England. 53 00:05:05.786 --> 00:05:09.708 My son can't race, but hire a Dutch driver. 54 00:05:11.789 --> 00:05:14.330 And it was an old Dutch team racing in England. 55 00:05:15.590 --> 00:05:23.193 This guy called Keith van der Grint, which was a tremendous engineer from karting, from Holland. 56 00:05:25.814 --> 00:05:28.316 And he loved development. 57 00:05:30.196 --> 00:05:30.376 And 58 00:05:32.645 --> 00:05:36.547 He hired Blickenmolen, Michael Blickenmolen. 59 00:05:38.128 --> 00:05:45.893 And few races into it, I didn't know, but he hated him because apparently Michael wasn't good in developing a car. 60 00:05:46.713 --> 00:05:52.076 And Keith was all about engineering and inventing things. 61 00:05:53.197 --> 00:05:53.457 So, 62 00:05:54.688 --> 00:05:58.409 He went to

the owner of the team and said, look, I can't put up anymore. 63 00:05:58.649 --> 00:05:59.349 I want to stop. 64 00:06:00.109 --> 00:06:01.069 I'm not having fun. 65 00:06:01.790 --> 00:06:03.030 You're spending a lot of money. 66 00:06:04.070 --> 00:06:05.310 I don't think we should continue. 67 00:06:07.111 --> 00:06:11.412 So, come on, just find another driver and continue. 68 00:06:12.112 --> 00:06:14.992 If you can't find another driver that you like, we'll stop. 69 00:06:16.653 --> 00:06:17.493 So they set up. 70 00:06:19.113 --> 00:06:22.794 Anyway, Case van der Green talked to Ron Toranek. 71 00:06:25.033 --> 00:06:26.594 about testing drivers. 72 00:06:27.334 --> 00:06:29.556 So he found two or three drivers. 73 00:06:30.576 --> 00:06:36.219 And Ron said, well, I know a little kid that you should test. 74 00:06:37.180 --> 00:06:40.061 He just got a Lotus Formula One contract. 75 00:06:40.782 --> 00:06:42.483 I've seen him doing Formula Fords. 76 00:06:42.543 --> 00:06:43.663 I like him quite a lot. 77 00:06:44.083 --> 00:06:44.984 Why don't you try him? 78 00:06:46.885 --> 00:06:52.448 So got a phone call from Case and through Peewee, and they arranged tests. 79 00:06:54.251 --> 00:06:58.713 We went to Brunshatch Club Circuit, which is where I won the Formula 4 festival. 80 00:07:00.394 --> 00:07:03.375 And I was the last driver to test of the three. 81 00:07:07.177 --> 00:07:14.920 My first time in, well, my second time in wing cars, but my first time in the Formula 3 car ground effect. 82 00:07:18.682 --> 00:07:23.704 I went out in the car, did five laps, three or five laps, 83 00:07:24.744 --> 00:07:35.233 come in the pits and I say, Case, I go to Paddock Bent and this car understeers and Paddock Bent is a little faster. 84 00:07:35.273 --> 00:07:42.599 So I guess you need to put some front wing in the car because I guess fast quarters is wing. 85 00:07:44.061 --> 00:07:47.023 You look at me, but you haven't even warmed the tires up. 86 00:07:47.483 --> 00:07:50.386 So yeah, but that's the feeling I have when I turn the steering wheel. 87 00:07:52.232 --> 00:07:52.992 Sure, so yeah. 88 00:07:53.012 --> 00:07:55.093 Okay, I'm gonna put a couple of degrees. 89 00:07:55.393 --> 00:07:56.533 Put two degrees in the car. 90 00:07:56.974 --> 00:07:58.054 I went out, I loved it. 91 00:07:58.574 --> 00:08:01.435 Come back here and say, yes, but one more degree. 92 00:08:02.095 --> 00:08:02.916 Not quite enough. 93 00:08:04.716 --> 00:08:07.257 You only done another five laps, you haven't warmed the tires up. 94 00:08:07.957 --> 00:08:09.138 Yeah, but that's how I feel. 95 00:08:09.858 --> 00:08:12.519 Okay, put another degree, off I went. 96 00:08:12.899 --> 00:08:17.040 So now I did a 10 lap run in the circuit that I knew inside out. 97 00:08:17.960 --> 00:08:19.501 In the car that was brown new to me. 98 00:08:20.774 --> 00:08:26.996 And I'm quicker than the other drivers because, simply because I've changed the car and they didn't. 99 00:08:28.277 --> 00:08:30.037 Which resonated with him clearly, didn't it? 100 00:08:30.117 --> 00:08:31.158 He was impressed by this. 101 00:08:31.358 --> 00:08:32.218 And he said, wow. 102 00:08:33.158 --> 00:08:43.302 And then I stopped in the pits and I'm breathing fast and it's all excitement for me because I never had driven that fast ever. 103 00:08:44.402 --> 00:08:47.243 And the Formula 3 car that goes through the corner so fast. 104 00:08:49.058 --> 00:09:01.229 And I start thinking, I say, Case, a Formula Ford car in Brunshatch to go fast must touch the ground before Paddock and before the Assis. 105 00:09:02.270 --> 00:09:04.432 This car doesn't touch the ground. 106 00:09:06.114 --> 00:09:07.135 Should we lower the car? 107 00:09:08.376 --> 00:09:09.878 Okay, so he lowered the car. 108 00:09:10.776 --> 00:09:17.699 I went out, I go quicker because a ground effect car, I didn't know at the time, but ground effect car, the lower you go, the quicker it goes. 109 00:09:17.719 --> 00:09:18.500 It goes, yeah, yeah. 110 00:09:18.860 --> 00:09:20.881 Especially in a small place. 111 00:09:22.902 --> 00:09:26.123 So I go quicker, I stop, I see, still not touching. 112 00:09:26.584 --> 00:09:27.464 So he lowers it. 113 00:09:28.184 --> 00:09:29.185 I go quicker again. 114 00:09:30.125 --> 00:09:33.007 Now he gives me a new set of tires. 115 00:09:33.647 --> 00:09:35.308 I break the lap record of the circuit. 116 00:09:36.676 --> 00:09:38.477 And he's so happy and all that. 117 00:09:38.497 --> 00:09:43.918 And I said, okay, it's still not touching the ground, even with the new tires, even in the first few laps. 118 00:09:44.939 --> 00:09:45.979 So he lowers again. 119 00:09:46.659 --> 00:09:48.660 I start touching and I go quite fast. 120 00:09:50.661 --> 00:09:51.561 I stop in the pits. 121 00:09:51.601 --> 00:09:53.602 He said, oh, let's try to lower a bit more, he says. 122 00:09:54.402 --> 00:09:55.902 I said, well, it's touching enough. 123 00:09:56.343 --> 00:09:57.523 No, no, let's try a bit more. 124 00:09:58.658 --> 00:09:59.139 Guess what? 125 00:10:00.821 --> 00:10:11.193 I went through the S's, touched the ground so hard, and I skid off the racetrack and destroyed the car, the front of the car, the left front corner. 126 00:10:12.194 --> 00:10:16.900 And he comes, and he's looking at the car, and he looks at me, say, are you OK? 127 00:10:17.040 --> 00:10:18.082 I say, yeah, I'm OK. 128 00:10:19.018 --> 00:10:24.501 And then he goes back and he calls the owner of the team and said, look, I got good news and bad news. 129 00:10:25.161 --> 00:10:26.682 I found the drive fire one. 130 00:10:27.162 --> 00:10:27.762 But he's not Dutch. 131 00:10:28.643 --> 00:10:31.264 He's not Dutch and he destroyed the car. 132 00:10:31.904 --> 00:10:34.406 But I know why he destroyed it and it was half my fault. 133 00:10:35.866 --> 00:10:36.687 He said, hire him. 134 00:10:37.827 --> 00:10:39.088 And that's how I went racing. 135 00:10:39.595 -->

00:10:40.355 Unreal. 136 00:10:40.936 --> 00:10:43.557 What transpires next in your career then? 137 00:10:43.677 --> 00:10:50.220 So, you know, you need to be stronger for Formula One. 138 00:10:50.840 --> 00:10:52.861 Lotus at least gives you that opportunity. 139 00:10:53.402 --> 00:11:00.125 But what do you do in the next phase that ultimately gets you to Formula One? 140 00:11:00.145 --> 00:11:02.666 Because there's a bit of moving around here, isn't there? 141 00:11:02.706 --> 00:11:07.108 I mean, Pee Wee gets you to New Zealand where we're talking now and you would do some Formula Atlantics. 142 00:11:07.428 --> 00:11:08.288 going to Australia. 143 00:11:08.308 --> 00:11:17.453 And those Grand Prixs that Bob Jane ran at Calder Park, the motor racing people look back on those very fondly because of the names that came out. 144 00:11:17.553 --> 00:11:21.034 You, Nelson, Alan Jones, Jacques Lafitte, I think, came. 145 00:11:21.074 --> 00:11:21.855 Nicky Lauda. 146 00:11:21.895 --> 00:11:22.835 Nicky Lauda, exactly. 147 00:11:22.855 --> 00:11:23.575 Kaki Roseburg. 148 00:11:23.635 --> 00:11:25.676 Yeah, yeah. 149 00:11:25.796 --> 00:11:29.598 A couple of others, André Desazeres, Jeff Brabant. 150 00:11:29.738 --> 00:11:30.899 Yeah. 151 00:11:31.619 --> 00:11:33.160 I think Larry Perkins was there. 152 00:11:33.200 --> 00:11:33.620 Yes, he was. 153 00:11:34.301 --> 00:11:39.328 And a few other names from Australia, very quick drivers. 154 00:11:39.589 --> 00:11:41.452 So, Mike Meehan. 155 00:11:41.692 --> 00:11:43.275 Yes. 156 00:11:43.535 --> 00:11:45.638 Steve Meehan. 157 00:11:45.959 --> 00:11:47.862 So, there were some good drivers there. 158 00:11:49.874 --> 00:11:52.937 So I started to race with case. 159 00:11:53.718 --> 00:11:57.742 The first race, I broke the gearbox, so we didn't race at Snetton, I believe. 160 00:11:58.583 --> 00:12:04.288 Then we went to Cadillac Park and I felt sick jumping, going up the hill and jumping. 161 00:12:05.009 --> 00:12:07.171 Somehow that made me feel seasick. 162 00:12:07.412 --> 00:12:07.712 Okay. 163 00:12:08.413 --> 00:12:10.715 So that race wasn't very good for me. 164 00:12:11.035 --> 00:12:14.117 That is mighty, that jump, isn't it? 165 00:12:14.157 --> 00:12:14.917 I mean, it's crazy. 166 00:12:15.117 --> 00:12:20.060 So I think that was my second race or my first real race because it's Nettaton. 167 00:12:20.080 --> 00:12:23.802 We did not race because the gearbox broke. 168 00:12:24.602 --> 00:12:37.650 My second race, which was, I forgot which one it was, and I won my third race, which would be my fourth one had I raced at Snetaton. 169 00:12:39.952 --> 00:13:03.403 And the way I won that one, if I'm not wrong, it was a race for European teams and British teams racing in the same race at Silverstone Grand Prix circuit. 170 00:13:03.763 --> 00:13:07.965 Whoever wants to race the European would race with free tires. 171 00:13:09.459 --> 00:13:12.421 and would count points for the European Championship. 172 00:13:13.922 --> 00:13:19.086 Whoever raced with the Avon tires would count points for the British Championship. 173 00:13:19.766 --> 00:13:30.754 So I'm testing the British Championship tires and I stopped in the pits and I see Rom Toronag talking to Case Vandergrind, my team owner or team manager. 174 00:13:32.487 --> 00:13:45.655 And then they come close to my car and say, well, Roberto, Ron Toranac has two sets of Bridgestone tires that if we want to race the European championship, we are welcome to have. 175 00:13:47.816 --> 00:13:49.898 I say, have anybody tried those tires before? 176 00:13:50.278 --> 00:13:50.518 No. 177 00:13:50.778 --> 00:13:52.599 They're brown new from Japan. 178 00:13:52.619 --> 00:13:54.781 Do you want to have a go? 179 00:13:56.341 --> 00:13:57.922 I looked at kids and said, what do you think? 180 00:13:57.942 --> 00:14:00.084 They said, well, I'd love to give it a go. 181 00:14:00.304 --> 00:14:00.444 Hmm. 182 00:14:02.386 --> 00:14:04.408 Um, okay, let's put it on the car. 183 00:14:05.028 --> 00:14:05.769 I'll put it on the car. 184 00:14:07.912 --> 00:14:17.802 Um, actually, we'll put it on the car, um, for qualifying, straight in qualifying. 185 00:14:19.204 --> 00:14:20.165 And I put it, put on pole. 186 00:14:20.185 --> 00:14:21.747 First time on the tires. 187 00:14:21.767 --> 00:14:22.828 First time on the tires. 188 00:14:24.562 --> 00:14:30.726 And we put on pole in front of all the Michelins and Avons and you name it. 189 00:14:32.147 --> 00:14:33.468 And all the European teams there. 190 00:14:34.969 --> 00:14:35.770 And we won the race. 191 00:14:37.071 --> 00:14:40.573 So that was phenomenal to win that race. 192 00:14:40.813 --> 00:14:45.537 We had a bit of help because the tires were quite good, but we really won that race. 193 00:14:46.377 --> 00:14:46.838 So... 194 00:14:48.248 --> 00:14:52.970 Winning my third race in Formula 3 starting late without testing was phenomenal. 195 00:14:54.170 --> 00:15:05.275 And all that testing I'd done and developing the car brands hatched the first day, looking back at it, it was something unique for a young guy to do it. 196 00:15:07.876 --> 00:15:14.118 But again, we won three races that year, three or four if I'm not wrong. 197 00:15:15.019 --> 00:15:15.999 But at the end of the year... 198 00:15:17.362 --> 00:15:18.443 The season was finished. 199 00:15:20.043 --> 00:15:20.804 And what's next? 200 00:15:21.524 --> 00:15:27.727 I've got 10,000 pounds for the following year from Lotus, but no drive. 201 00:15:28.949 --> 00:15:31.451 We're talking here in New Zealand. 202 00:15:31.811 --> 00:15:43.500 There is a funny story about Kenny Smith, legend in these parts, legend in these parts, and some horse racing in order to kind of stitch some things together, wasn't it? 203 00:15:43.520 --> 00:15:43.960 Tell us about that. 204 00:15:43.980 --> 00:15:44.861 It was fantastic. 205 00:15:45.621 --> 00:15:52.326 New Zealand, for me, was fantastic

because Pee Wee calls me up and said, well, why don't we go to New Zealand? 206 00:15:52.346 --> 00:15:53.087 We've got a car. 207 00:15:53.427 --> 00:15:57.897 You almost did that in an accent then. 208 00:15:58.719 --> 00:16:01.024 And we've got an engine. 209 00:16:02.909 --> 00:16:03.710 Maybe we can make it. 210 00:16:04.715 --> 00:16:07.698 He had made some good money by winning the Australian Grand Prix. 211 00:16:07.718 --> 00:16:08.219 Right, yeah. 212 00:16:08.319 --> 00:16:12.683 I think we won a full car from, I think, Nissan. 213 00:16:12.843 --> 00:16:13.724 Oh, Nissan, okay. 214 00:16:13.764 --> 00:16:17.888 Nissan gave us a car and he sold it and made some money. 215 00:16:20.811 --> 00:16:22.192 The price money was high. 216 00:16:22.573 --> 00:16:26.056 He paid good... Bob Jane paid good money to have us there. 217 00:16:31.011 --> 00:16:31.511 So, okay. 218 00:16:31.791 --> 00:16:34.333 So I was in Brazil for Christmas and New Year. 219 00:16:34.893 --> 00:16:36.533 Then I went to the government. 220 00:16:37.774 --> 00:17:00.204 And this guy that I know at the government took me to the education minister department, ministry department, I don't know what you call exactly, but the secretary of sports in the government and asked him to help me to go to New Zealand. 221 00:17:01.814 --> 00:17:07.137 So at the time, they only supporting volleyball teams. 222 00:17:08.317 --> 00:17:16.922 So they gave me an air ticket, international air ticket, and they named to one of the volleyball players. 223 00:17:18.502 --> 00:17:19.703 And they gave it to me. 224 00:17:21.004 --> 00:17:24.627 So I got a full ticket to go to New Zealand for free. 225 00:17:24.667 --> 00:17:29.231 And if you see in the first race, it's S-E-E-D on my car. 226 00:17:29.951 --> 00:17:30.532 That's the... 227 00:17:31.132 --> 00:17:32.313 The name of the volleyball player. 228 00:17:32.794 --> 00:17:34.075 No, it's actually the... 229 00:17:34.535 --> 00:17:37.097 The Secretary of Sports in Brazil. 230 00:17:37.117 --> 00:17:37.657 Sorry, sorry. 231 00:17:38.057 --> 00:17:39.958 Department of Education. 232 00:17:40.098 --> 00:17:40.299 Yeah. 233 00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:45.362 But it couldn't have been in my name because they were not supporting racing teams. 234 00:17:45.382 --> 00:17:48.604 So anyway, got to New Zealand. 235 00:17:49.124 --> 00:17:49.664 Bay Park? 236 00:17:49.804 --> 00:17:50.605 Bay Park, yeah. 237 00:17:51.687 --> 00:17:52.647 First race was good. 238 00:17:52.708 --> 00:17:53.548 We won the race. 239 00:17:54.248 --> 00:17:56.229 Great result. 240 00:17:57.090 --> 00:18:00.731 After the race, I was on my speedos enjoying the sun. 241 00:18:01.272 --> 00:18:06.354 This journalist comes to me and says, well, how do you think you're going to go the next race? 242 00:18:06.474 --> 00:18:11.937 I said, well, unfortunately, we only had money to do one race and we have to go home. 243 00:18:12.916 --> 00:18:41.116 no so apparently there was half a page in one of the top newspapers in Oakland about champion goes back home with no money so people got to know about that and Pee Wee got some help from the sponsors of the championship Aurora and they chipped in some money for us to go to the next race 244 00:18:42.258 --> 00:18:52.723 And then that's when this little guy called Kenny Smith shows up and says, Roberto, I know you're a little short of money. 245 00:18:55.221 --> 00:19:01.446 I think I know the horse winner of tomorrow's race. 246 00:19:01.766 --> 00:19:04.228 And this was Friday, I think, or Saturday. 247 00:19:04.989 --> 00:19:06.130 I said, really, Kenny? 248 00:19:06.510 --> 00:19:07.631 Let's put a lot of money. 249 00:19:07.671 --> 00:19:11.454 Let's get a bunch of money, borrow money, and put it there. 250 00:19:11.874 --> 00:19:13.435 No, no, no, he can't do that. 251 00:19:13.896 --> 00:19:14.496 Change the odds. 252 00:19:14.536 --> 00:19:15.197 It'll change the odds. 253 00:19:15.217 --> 00:19:16.238 Yeah, he changed the odds. 254 00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:19.080 Okay, okay, how much we put? 255 00:19:19.480 --> 00:19:19.920 Only $500. 256 00:19:20.161 --> 00:19:22.543 So we all chipped in a little bit and... 257 00:19:23.622 --> 00:19:24.302 And we won. 258 00:19:25.403 --> 00:19:28.284 And then he said, oh, tomorrow there's another horse that's going to win. 259 00:19:29.085 --> 00:19:31.486 So we put more money and we won again. 260 00:19:31.586 --> 00:19:33.007 And we won four times. 261 00:19:33.727 --> 00:19:34.448 Unreal. 262 00:19:34.708 --> 00:19:36.789 And Kenny, it's incredible. 263 00:19:38.170 --> 00:19:41.351 We would be calling everybody to go to the grid. 264 00:19:41.611 --> 00:19:47.334 Kenny would disappear on the phone to get the results of the race before. 265 00:19:47.654 --> 00:19:49.375 And we were all waiting for him at the grid. 266 00:19:51.202 --> 00:19:52.682 So we won four times. 267 00:19:53.203 --> 00:19:56.544 I think I won $5,000 total in those days. 268 00:19:57.724 --> 00:19:59.885 And that helped us a lot in the second race. 269 00:20:01.545 --> 00:20:07.827 The next event, I won the Pukakoi race. 270 00:20:08.147 --> 00:20:08.687 Massive. 271 00:20:08.728 --> 00:20:09.308 Grand Prix. 272 00:20:10.948 --> 00:20:12.529 I won the first race. 273 00:20:14.049 --> 00:20:19.411 And the second race, Steve Millen started better than me. 274 00:20:21.032 --> 00:20:34.538 Although I was faster than him, I didn't have to pass him because I opened such a good gap in the first race that all I had to do is finish behind him because they were adding the times. 275 00:20:35.583 --> 00:20:36.924 for the winner of the race. 276 00:20:38.304 --> 00:20:42.286 So he's too pissed about it so many years later, you know? 277 00:20:42.306 --> 00:20:45.948 He was with us last weekend for a function, which is what's prompted this podcast. 278 00:20:46.228 --> 00:20:47.569 And he brought a hacksaw, didn't he? 279 00:20:47.589 --> 00:20:49.249 He wants to cut the

trophy in half. 280 00:20:49.890 --> 00:20:56.273 So he was so pissed so many years later, and I never realized it. 281 00:20:56.933 --> 00:21:01.975 And he thought he deserved to win because he won one hit and I won the other hit. 282 00:21:02.055 --> 00:21:04.817 But he only won the second hit because... 283 00:21:05.597 --> 00:21:09.218 I knew if I finished behind him, I would have won the race. 284 00:21:09.658 --> 00:21:10.979 So that's all I done. 285 00:21:10.999 --> 00:21:11.499 Okay. 286 00:21:11.959 --> 00:21:15.140 So could have won? 287 00:21:15.160 --> 00:21:15.801 Yeah, maybe. 288 00:21:16.421 --> 00:21:19.282 But I took it easy in a way. 289 00:21:19.982 --> 00:21:26.004 So for me, winning the New Zealand Grand Prix was very important. 290 00:21:26.984 --> 00:21:28.585 So I made sure we'd done that. 291 00:21:38.349 --> 00:21:45.414 Roberto has that ability to find and create opportunities, and he's clearly enjoyed the journey, something Kelvin Fisch did too. 292 00:21:46.835 --> 00:21:52.339 So I went from F3 in Europe on the verge of F1 back to Formula Ford 1600 in the States. 293 00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:59.945 There was also a Pro Sports 2000 championship, which we competed at with Tiger, so Harden Gamley from Tiger gave us a car for that. 294 00:22:01.707 --> 00:22:10.756 Calvin race wheel to wheel with Senna, Brundale, and more in his early days, before that move to the United States, and Cal had the talent to go a long way. 295 00:22:11.237 --> 00:22:16.242 Like Roberto he's still involved in the sport, but on the broadcasting and driver management side. 296 00:22:16.862 --> 00:22:18.304 More from the Super Sub now. 297 00:22:20.995 --> 00:22:26.779 If we're to talk Formula One, in some respects we have to talk about IndyCar, don't we? 298 00:22:26.799 --> 00:22:31.803 Because you would go back and you would have some success there. 299 00:22:31.843 --> 00:22:38.708 You would put some money in the bank and it would ultimately help you get back to what was unfinished business. 300 00:22:39.028 --> 00:22:42.311 Yeah. 301 00:22:43.131 --> 00:22:49.676 In 1985, I found a door to drive for Tolman. 302 00:22:51.229 --> 00:22:55.911 Pat Simmons now was engineer at Tobin. 303 00:22:56.271 --> 00:22:57.411 Senna had just left. 304 00:22:59.292 --> 00:23:01.813 They took me for a test in Estorio. 305 00:23:02.513 --> 00:23:04.093 I performed extremely well. 306 00:23:05.614 --> 00:23:10.496 And suggestion was made to have me run in that season. 307 00:23:11.416 --> 00:23:18.018 But they had dropped Pirelli's sometime during the year in 84. 308 00:23:22.283 --> 00:23:31.445 And... Was the performance not as good? 309 00:23:31.525 --> 00:23:33.026 Was the car not as good? 310 00:23:34.246 --> 00:23:41.408 Well, the car was good, but they dropped Pirelli's in the middle of the year sometime for Michelin. 311 00:23:42.888 --> 00:23:46.529 And then at the end of the year, I think Michelin left the series. 312 00:23:47.827 --> 00:23:53.471 So

Pirelli would not supply them tires again the following year. 313 00:23:53.832 --> 00:23:58.595 And Goodyear didn't like what they've done to Pirelli. 314 00:23:58.615 --> 00:24:00.897 So they end up with no tires. 315 00:24:02.518 --> 00:24:11.825 So I stretched that situation very late because I got an offer from Rick Gallis in America to go race IndyCars a full season. 316 00:24:11.845 --> 00:24:11.945 Yeah. 317 00:24:13.363 --> 00:24:22.106 So I kept delaying, I said, Rick, I really got this going here, and I've got a good chance, and I stretched it until March. 318 00:24:22.126 --> 00:24:28.589 And poor Rick, he called me in January, he said, Roberto, I'm gonna have to sign a driver, otherwise I'll lose my sponsor. 319 00:24:29.389 --> 00:24:30.590 So I said, go ahead and do it. 320 00:24:30.930 --> 00:24:34.811 So he signed Jeff Braben. 321 00:24:35.312 --> 00:24:41.294 And then, a month later, he calls me again, he said, Roberto, 322 00:24:42.336 --> 00:24:45.897 I found another sponsor and I want to put another car for you. 323 00:24:45.917 --> 00:24:51.479 I say, Rick, I'm still working on this thing here to get to drive for Tolman. 324 00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:53.340 That's a good opportunity. 325 00:24:53.440 --> 00:24:55.640 It will get me back in a good car. 326 00:24:57.661 --> 00:24:59.662 I'm going to keep working on this. 327 00:24:59.722 --> 00:25:00.982 And I keep delaying him. 328 00:25:01.022 --> 00:25:02.903 He used to call me every week. 329 00:25:04.163 --> 00:25:23.034 for since november all the way through great feather in your cap he clearly wanted you for various reasons yes indeed rick carlis basically always did what penske did he used to follow penske's um whatever he did and penske hired mike thakwell 330 00:25:24.450 --> 00:25:52.889 to replace Rick Mears sometime in 84 at the end I believe and Rick knew that I in 1982 when I went to do Atlantics for the Long Beach Grand Prix I finished second and I beat Alonso Jr. who he was sponsoring at the time so he was behind Alonso Jr. because they're all from Albuquerque 331 00:25:54.130 --> 00:25:54.931 New Mexico. 332 00:25:56.272 --> 00:25:59.054 Eventually, I drove for Rick Gallas. 333 00:26:00.336 --> 00:26:08.883 But basically, he knew that me and Michael were fighting very strong in Formula 2 in 84. 334 00:26:09.764 --> 00:26:14.228 So since Penske hired Taco, he hired me. 335 00:26:14.248 --> 00:26:15.029 So... 336 00:26:15.389 --> 00:26:21.818 So Mike was only to replace Rick Mears, I believe, for that end of the season. 337 00:26:22.159 --> 00:26:25.724 But he hired me for the full season in 85, he wanted. 338 00:26:26.565 --> 00:26:31.492 Then because I delayed him up to, I believe, March or April, something crazy. 339 00:26:32.313 --> 00:26:34.375 He eventually signed another driver. 340 00:26:34.495 --> 00:26:36.917 He said, Roberto, I've got to sign another driver. 341 00:26:36.937 --> 00:26:39.560 I said, Rick, I'm going to let this go. 342 00:26:39.600 --> 00:26:40.260 I'm sorry. 343 00:26:40.861 --> 00:26:47.126 And then a week later, I discovered that Toman didn't have tires to do the season. 344 00:26:47.667 --> 00:26:49.829 I called him back and said, Roberto, it's too late. 345 00:26:49.989 --> 00:26:51.050 You're a week too late. 346 00:26:52.251 --> 00:26:55.394 So after speaking to him every week... 347 00:26:56.314 --> 00:26:59.836 And delaying him, I end up wanting to drive for him. 348 00:27:00.616 --> 00:27:06.520 So that 85 season was terrible for me because I end up with nothing. 349 00:27:07.580 --> 00:27:15.124 And then luckily, I had a good report with Kawamoto, the president of Honda. 350 00:27:15.524 --> 00:27:18.446 I think he was the president of research and development at the time. 351 00:27:20.127 --> 00:27:22.508 And only later he became the Honda president. 352 00:27:23.529 --> 00:27:23.749 He... 353 00:27:25.175 --> 00:27:27.157 I say, Roberto, do you still want to drive? 354 00:27:27.217 --> 00:27:27.978 I say, sure. 355 00:27:28.718 --> 00:27:29.920 He calls me from Japan. 356 00:27:29.960 --> 00:27:35.305 He said, well, there's a team here that has a spare car from previous year. 357 00:27:36.166 --> 00:27:40.089 And I'm going to give them some help to run you. 358 00:27:40.965 --> 00:27:47.529 So Kawamoto arranged for me to race for Nova Engineering in Japan in Formula 2. 359 00:27:48.710 --> 00:27:51.031 And I did half a season then. 360 00:27:51.872 --> 00:27:54.173 And then I received a phone call from Rick Gallas. 361 00:27:55.134 --> 00:27:59.837 He said, Roberto, my driver, Pancho Carter, he has a hip issue. 362 00:28:01.418 --> 00:28:04.060 and he cannot drive street and road courses. 363 00:28:04.981 --> 00:28:06.562 So he's okay on the ovals. 364 00:28:07.222 --> 00:28:11.525 Would you please drive on the road courses and street courses for me? 365 00:28:11.745 --> 00:28:14.307 I mean, road courses and, yeah, street courses. 366 00:28:14.928 --> 00:28:15.428 I said, yeah. 367 00:28:16.129 --> 00:28:17.370 So I look at the dates. 368 00:28:18.150 --> 00:28:22.792 And they all were okay between Japan and America. 369 00:28:23.112 --> 00:28:23.812 So good. 370 00:28:23.832 --> 00:28:30.075 So I did eight races in Japan, I believe, and eight races in America in Indy cars. 371 00:28:30.935 --> 00:28:38.458 Meanwhile, I was trying to keep my foot in Europe because I knew that would be the way to do Formula One. 372 00:28:39.525 --> 00:28:48.088 So I found a team, Byron Racing again, who I race in Formula 3 for in 81. 373 00:28:49.229 --> 00:28:55.351 They were now running in 85 with Tiro cars. 374 00:28:56.131 --> 00:28:57.952 They were running Adrian Campos. 375 00:28:59.032 --> 00:29:05.215 So I convinced Case Vandergrind to run me in the first event. 376 00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:08.542 on the spare car. 377 00:29:08.983 --> 00:29:12.310 But he said, Roberto, I only have mechanics for one car. 378 00:29:12.731 --> 00:29:14.134 I said, Case, come on. 379

00:29:14.855 --> 00:29:16.258 When he stops, I go out. 380 00:29:17.760 --> 00:29:23.882 And I tell you, the crazy guy, he accepted and he found a way to do that. 381 00:29:24.463 --> 00:29:25.843 And we found a way to work. 382 00:29:26.243 --> 00:29:29.004 Eventually, Ken Tiro felt sorry for us. 383 00:29:29.605 --> 00:29:35.507 And on the weekend, Saturday and Sunday, he sent one engineer and two mechanics to help me. 384 00:29:35.587 --> 00:29:42.030 And we ran the first race with the Tiro in Formula 3000. 385 00:29:42.510 --> 00:29:44.891 So I was able to do three or four races in 3000. 386 00:29:46.051 --> 00:29:48.513 Eight races in Japan in Formula 2. 387 00:29:48.533 --> 00:29:51.135 And I believe six or eight races in IndyCar. 388 00:29:51.155 --> 00:29:51.695 That's amazing. 389 00:29:53.056 --> 00:29:54.717 So that was a tough season for me. 390 00:29:55.077 --> 00:29:59.760 And then eventually in 86, Rick Gallas hired me for a full season. 391 00:30:00.201 --> 00:30:02.062 And I spent a full season in America. 392 00:30:02.182 --> 00:30:03.643 Did you enjoy IndyCar, clearly? 393 00:30:03.723 --> 00:30:04.604 Very much so. 394 00:30:04.724 --> 00:30:12.929 Except my engineer board, you had the choice to buy a Lola or a March. 395 00:30:14.829 --> 00:30:20.853 Lola was really well engineered, and my engineer decided to go with Lola's. 396 00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:25.882 The problem is that March was built by Adrian Newey. 397 00:30:25.902 --> 00:30:34.047 It was designed by Adrian Newey, who was young at the time, developing, but he did a very good aerodynamic car. 398 00:30:34.887 --> 00:30:42.151 So we were fighting against a car designed by Adrian Newey, which was so much superior than the Lola's. 399 00:30:42.831 --> 00:30:48.795 I got so frustrated in that year that I just decided to come back to Europe the following year. 400 00:30:49.795 --> 00:30:53.476 So I talked to my engineer, Gary Anderson, at the time. 401 00:30:53.916 --> 00:30:55.637 And I said, Gary, I want to go back to Europe. 402 00:30:55.657 --> 00:30:57.617 I want to race there again. 403 00:30:57.657 --> 00:31:03.239 You know, I can't take this situation here that we've been through this year. 404 00:31:03.259 --> 00:31:04.879 He said, next year will be different. 405 00:31:04.919 --> 00:31:10.261 I said, well, if I don't go back to Europe, I'll never drive Formula One again. 406 00:31:10.561 --> 00:31:12.281 So I'm going to give it a shot. 407 00:31:13.262 --> 00:31:14.022 How are you going to do it? 408 00:31:14.042 --> 00:31:14.942 I said, I don't know. 409 00:31:15.762 --> 00:31:18.323 But I'm going to go back to Europe with the money I have. 410 00:31:19.895 --> 00:31:23.436 So I had made, in two years, I think I made $600,000. 411 00:31:23.476 --> 00:31:25.836 So I had enough money to go back to Europe. 412 00:31:26.057 --> 00:31:27.277 Are you a dad at this stage? 413 00:31:27.317 --> 00:31:29.477 I'm trying to remember where you are in your life here. 414 00:31:29.797 --> 00:31:35.879 When did you become, you know, did your, you know, from a private life standpoint, how was all that? 415 00:31:35.919 --> 00:31:37.119 Are you going Europe? 416 00:31:37.159 --> 00:31:38.139 Are you going America? 417 00:31:38.159 --> 00:31:38.800 Are you going out? 418 00:31:39.260 --> 00:31:40.000 Was, you know... 419 00:31:40.420 --> 00:31:49.822 Well, I had enough money to keep going personally from the monies I made in Japan and with Rick Carlos. 420 00:31:50.602 --> 00:31:52.583 And I just didn't have a drive. 421 00:31:53.603 --> 00:31:55.664 So Gary said to me, you know what? 422 00:31:55.964 --> 00:32:00.885 A team, a guy that worked with me before, he's put a team together. 423 00:32:01.870 --> 00:32:05.194 I'm going to ask him if he wants to run you in one race. 424 00:32:05.894 --> 00:32:18.387 And as it happened, the Birmingham Grand Prix in Formula 3000 in 1985 is near the shop of this gentleman that had the team. 425 00:32:19.148 --> 00:32:26.414 So he told Gary I could come and do the Birmingham Grand Prix, and the dates were not a problem. 426 00:32:26.874 --> 00:32:28.255 Rick Gallas allowed me to go. 427 00:32:28.855 --> 00:32:32.278 So I showed up in England at Birmingham. 428 00:32:33.019 --> 00:32:36.481 Ron Toranakis running the Route Honda team. 429 00:32:37.122 --> 00:32:39.183 He looks at me and says, what are you doing here? 430 00:32:39.684 --> 00:32:42.145 I say, well, I want to come back, Ron. 431 00:32:43.146 --> 00:32:43.747 Are you racing? 432 00:32:43.767 --> 00:32:46.068 Yeah, I'm racing this weekend only. 433 00:32:46.909 --> 00:32:51.973 But the reason I'm doing this is because I want to find a drive for next year, a full time. 434 00:32:52.694 --> 00:32:54.856 But Roberto, you made good money. 435 00:32:55.336 --> 00:32:57.057 You settled in America. 436 00:32:57.158 --> 00:32:58.639 People recognize you now. 437 00:32:59.159 --> 00:33:02.202 You have your life in racing in America, guarantee. 438 00:33:03.203 --> 00:33:04.043 Are you crazy? 439 00:33:05.304 --> 00:33:10.509 I say, no, I want to drive here because I want to try to make the Formula One again. 440 00:33:12.570 --> 00:33:15.493 Well, you're driving for me in 3000 if you want next year. 441 00:33:16.724 --> 00:33:22.270 And we shook hands and I got a drive with Ron Tornak in 87. 442 00:33:23.010 --> 00:33:25.813 And the same thing happened in 84. 443 00:33:26.434 --> 00:33:35.643 I didn't tell you the story, but in 84, I borrowed money to do a full season in Formula 3 with the best team. 444 00:33:36.555 --> 00:33:38.538 And the best team was Dick Bennett. 445 00:33:38.598 --> 00:33:39.439 Bennett, yeah, yeah. 446 00:33:39.459 --> 00:33:41.942 Who ran Ayrton and all sorts over time. 447 00:33:41.982 --> 00:33:44.725 Yeah, everybody that drove with Dick. 448 00:33:44.765 --> 00:33:46.487 Kiwi, legendary Kiwi. 449 00:33:46.748 --> 00:33:49.731 Everybody that drove with Dick did really well. 450 00:33:50.012 -->

00:33:51.414 I got home really well with Dick. 451 00:33:52.014 --> 00:33:53.756 And I think he was the one... 452 00:33:54.710 --> 00:34:03.199 That's my opinion, very strong opinion, who has helped Senna to become a much better driver. 453 00:34:03.519 --> 00:34:03.919 Okay. 454 00:34:03.939 --> 00:34:15.892 Because the times I've seen him spending with Senna in the corners, talking about details and things, Dick was so detail into things, and I think he improved him a lot. 455 00:34:15.952 --> 00:34:16.292 Gotcha. 456 00:34:16.612 --> 00:34:16.933 Okay. 457 00:34:17.713 --> 00:34:21.194 Anyway, so I had in my mind, I've done all these things. 458 00:34:21.994 --> 00:34:35.176 If I do a full season in Formula 3 that I hadn't done it yet, because my second season in Formula 3 was only half a season as well, I might have a shot in Formula 1 again. 459 00:34:36.177 --> 00:34:40.918 So I borrow money, I sign with Dick at the end of 83 for 84, 460 00:34:43.944 --> 00:34:45.965 And we went testing in Traxton. 461 00:34:47.026 --> 00:34:49.467 Ron Toranac is testing the Formula 2 cars. 462 00:34:50.168 --> 00:34:52.029 He turns around to me and says, what are you doing here? 463 00:34:52.049 --> 00:34:55.650 I said, well, I borrowed some money. 464 00:34:55.671 --> 00:34:56.751 I'm going to race with Dick. 465 00:34:57.331 --> 00:35:01.274 And I'm going to try to do Formula 3 the proper way that I've never done before. 466 00:35:02.834 --> 00:35:06.656 Roberto, you didn't want to drive for me. 467 00:35:07.217 --> 00:35:08.758 I have a seat for you in Formula 2. 468 00:35:09.862 --> 00:35:13.803 I said, Ron, why didn't you tell me before? 469 00:35:14.963 --> 00:35:16.903 So he looked at me. 470 00:35:16.923 --> 00:35:17.904 Oh, now it's too late. 471 00:35:17.984 --> 00:35:18.964 I said, hang on, Ron. 472 00:35:19.644 --> 00:35:20.904 You're good mates with Dick. 473 00:35:22.104 --> 00:35:26.625 Why don't you go and have a word with him and see if you can negotiate me coming to drive for you? 474 00:35:27.505 --> 00:35:29.646 Then I wouldn't have to borrow money to go racing. 475 00:35:31.126 --> 00:35:32.466 So he went, talked to Dick. 476 00:35:32.967 --> 00:35:34.787 Dick kindly accepted it. 477 00:35:36.744 --> 00:35:42.849 And I started to race for Rome Toronac with a contract signed with Dick Bennett. 478 00:35:44.150 --> 00:35:54.840 The times in your career where you have maybe raced for some teams and there's a setback and you always find a way. 479 00:35:54.860 --> 00:35:56.121 And there's a great story. 480 00:35:56.661 --> 00:35:58.162 You'll have to fill in the blanks here for me. 481 00:35:58.423 --> 00:36:00.825 I may be joining dots and I'm fast forwarding a little bit here. 482 00:36:01.806 --> 00:36:08.412 But you get to, I think, you go back to F3000 at one point in the late 80s. 483 00:36:08.993 --> 00:36:11.255 85, which I was just mentioning before, yeah. 484 00:36:11.335 --> 00:36:12.976 Okay, and you get to a point where… 485

00:36:13.855 --> 00:36:15.576 You were almost going race to race. 486 00:36:15.616 --> 00:36:20.318 You earned enough money from the winning check with one to get to the next. 487 00:36:20.458 --> 00:36:20.918 That was 88. 488 00:36:20.938 --> 00:36:21.438 88, was it? 489 00:36:21.458 --> 00:36:24.360 That was 88 this season I won the championship. 490 00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:28.701 And you meet, ultimately, you meet Marco Piccinini, don't you? 491 00:36:28.902 --> 00:36:29.102 Yeah. 492 00:36:29.682 --> 00:36:32.043 Well, yeah, that was 88. 493 00:36:32.343 --> 00:36:35.684 At the end of 88, well, basically, I've done all that. 494 00:36:35.704 --> 00:36:38.746 I've done 84 with Ron Toranaki in Formula 2. 495 00:36:39.726 --> 00:36:41.067 85, I went to America. 496 00:36:42.534 --> 00:36:46.798 86, I did a full season in the US. 497 00:36:46.898 --> 00:36:52.503 In 87, Ron signed me to drive his route Honda team in Formula 3000. 498 00:36:53.123 --> 00:36:55.005 And we almost won the championship. 499 00:36:55.545 --> 00:37:03.152 At the end of 85, this team comes to me that knew me from Formula 2, AGS. 500 00:37:03.832 --> 00:37:07.135 They used to have a Formula 2 car that was very fast in 84. 501 00:37:08.596 --> 00:37:14.358 And they used to see me driving, they used to know how good I was to set up a car. 502 00:37:14.998 --> 00:37:29.924 And he, the guy there, Frederick Denor, he came to me sometime towards the end of 87 and asked me if I would drive for AGS. 503 00:37:31.165 --> 00:37:36.192 I said, but I'm still driving a Formula 3000, fighting for the championship. 504 00:37:37.073 --> 00:37:39.958 Ron Toranac did not allow me to do that together. 505 00:37:41.620 --> 00:37:44.043 So he said, Roberto... 506 00:37:44.925 --> 00:37:53.912 We have been qualifying with Pasco Fabri, the AGS car, because there's not enough cars in Formula One. 507 00:37:54.332 --> 00:37:56.173 It's only a full grid, basically. 508 00:37:56.874 --> 00:38:07.802 So although we're much slower than everybody else, we qualify because the number of cars from Monza, 509 00:38:09.249 --> 00:38:16.236 Cologne is going to come into Formula One, and we're going to stay out, most likely, in every event. 510 00:38:17.458 --> 00:38:19.220 We want you to drive for us. 511 00:38:20.721 --> 00:38:25.786 I said, can't do, but, you know, once my 3,000th season finished, I can. 512 00:38:26.788 --> 00:38:31.192 So we decided to do Japan and Australia at the end of 87. 513 00:38:33.735 --> 00:38:36.598 Then he said, but we still need you to test the car. 514 00:38:36.618 --> 00:38:38.520 I said, okay, let's find a test. 515 00:38:38.580 --> 00:38:39.781 And we found the test day. 516 00:38:40.963 --> 00:38:48.891 I improved that car testing in Polarica in one day, about four seconds with the setup that I used to do in Formula 2. 517 00:38:50.346 --> 00:38:53.007 And the car was quite quick at the end. 518 00:38:54.008 --> 00:39:05.973 So we, they left the T car in Paul Ricard and

they went to one of the races with Pascal Fabry. 519 00:39:06.514 --> 00:39:08.935 And on Friday, they had not qualified. 520 00:39:09.355 --> 00:39:12.617 The same day as I was testing in Paul Ricard. 521 00:39:13.717 --> 00:39:18.980 At that evening, the engineer took the shocks and springs that I had set up their car. 522 00:39:20.012 --> 00:39:24.735 to the Grand Prix and Pascoe Fabri qualified the car. 523 00:39:25.515 --> 00:39:26.856 So they were really happy. 524 00:39:26.876 --> 00:39:28.137 They thought I was a hero. 525 00:39:28.817 --> 00:39:30.718 So you must race with us. 526 00:39:30.758 --> 00:39:31.659 I said, no worries. 527 00:39:31.739 --> 00:39:32.399 We'll get there. 528 00:39:33.660 --> 00:39:48.149 So I qualified in Japan, qualified in Australia, and I finished sixth, giving them a point on the championship, which gave them free transportation the following year. 529 00:39:49.034 --> 00:39:51.835 So they say, here you are, Roberto, sign here. 530 00:39:51.895 --> 00:39:53.596 You're going to drive for us next year. 531 00:39:53.997 --> 00:39:55.417 We're going to build a new car. 532 00:39:55.977 --> 00:39:57.638 Everything is going to be well designed. 533 00:39:57.658 --> 00:40:01.420 You can have some input if you like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 534 00:40:01.480 --> 00:40:02.641 So we did all that. 535 00:40:04.562 --> 00:40:16.688 I went to Patrick Head at Williams, and I asked Patrick if there would be some kind of information that he could give it to the team free, free. 536 00:40:18.178 --> 00:40:21.060 to help us have a good car for the following season. 537 00:40:21.800 --> 00:40:26.303 So Patrick, he was so happy with me that some testing I did for him. 538 00:40:27.284 --> 00:40:36.730 Also, I believe in 87 at Zeltweg, I did three days of testing for Williams after the race for Honda. 539 00:40:37.630 --> 00:40:41.436 And that was the most amazing car I ever driven in my life. 540 00:40:41.596 --> 00:40:41.797 Really? 541 00:40:41.817 --> 00:40:45.462 It was a car that Nelson won the championship in 87. 542 00:40:46.404 --> 00:40:48.687 And Nigel Munster was driving as well. 543 00:40:50.190 --> 00:40:51.091 And with that... 544 00:40:51.603 --> 00:41:08.527 the time I did the day after the race or three days after the race, I could have qualified, I think fifth and the grump in the, in the, in the grid and the lap times equaled all the Nelson's lap time for the race as well. 545 00:41:08.547 --> 00:41:09.987 So they were really impressed with me. 546 00:41:10.387 --> 00:41:12.328 It was a fantastic three day testing. 547 00:41:13.088 --> 00:41:16.689 Anyway, I went to Pat Patrick had, he kindly gave me some, 548 00:41:17.770 --> 00:41:28.019 about the rear floor extractor angle, which was 15 degrees, and he gave me all the measurements. 549 00:41:28.419 --> 00:41:29.980 I passed it on to AGS. 550 00:41:30.040 --> 00:41:33.323 They built this car, which was a phenomenal car in Monte Carlo. 551 00:41:33.744 --> 00:41:34.724 They did really well. 552 00:41:35.545 --> 00:41:40.610 Anyway, in February 88, which I'm getting ready to do, 553 00:41:42.149 --> 00:41:46.557 I was getting ready physically in Brazil to go racing in 88 for AGS. 554 00:41:48.561 --> 00:41:52.569 I had no phone calls from them, and it was already at the end of February. 555 00:41:53.757 --> 00:41:57.860 So I went to my friend's workshop in Brazil and asked him to use the phone. 556 00:41:58.601 --> 00:41:59.862 Called the AGS people. 557 00:42:00.483 --> 00:42:06.307 They said, oh, Roberto, we'd like you to come up here and we need to talk about a few things. 558 00:42:07.268 --> 00:42:09.930 So I said, well, can we talk on the phone? 559 00:42:09.950 --> 00:42:11.592 He said, well, no, no, we want you here. 560 00:42:11.612 --> 00:42:12.853 I said, okay. 561 00:42:13.273 --> 00:42:14.994 So I went to my friend at AGS. 562 00:42:16.096 --> 00:42:22.303 the free air tickets from the volleyball team. 563 00:42:22.644 --> 00:42:24.406 And they gave me a ticket to go to England. 564 00:42:24.947 --> 00:42:28.431 It was a ticket that you could travel the whole Europe if you wanted to. 565 00:42:30.153 --> 00:42:33.778 And I went to meet this guy at the Nice airport. 566 00:42:35.815 --> 00:42:42.682 He had just purchased AGS from the original owner, Monsieur Henry. 567 00:42:44.063 --> 00:42:46.386 And this guy, his name was Gerbert Tello. 568 00:42:47.447 --> 00:42:52.011 And he sat down with me in this bar in this airport, 569 00:42:54.978 --> 00:43:00.302 I don't know if it was coincidence, but it was the same bar that Fla. Fla. 570 00:43:00.382 --> 00:43:02.424 Fired me from Benetton. 571 00:43:04.246 --> 00:43:13.053 So he sat with me and said, Roberto, we only run one car. 572 00:43:14.274 --> 00:43:18.117 We're going to have to run a French driver because of French sponsors. 573 00:43:19.384 --> 00:43:26.929 I'm sorry for everything you've done for us, but we're going to have to have a French driver in the team. 574 00:43:28.530 --> 00:43:30.011 I said, come on, February. 575 00:43:30.031 --> 00:43:31.492 I said, can't do anything. 576 00:43:32.613 --> 00:43:33.833 So I changed the tickets. 577 00:43:34.554 --> 00:43:39.817 I went back to England before going back to Brazil. 578 00:43:40.077 --> 00:43:41.358 I went to Rome, Toranac. 579 00:43:41.438 --> 00:43:43.480 I said, Rome, this has happened. 580 00:43:44.320 --> 00:43:46.001 Can I still drive for you in 88? 581 00:43:46.021 --> 00:43:46.642 I said, Roberto. 582 00:43:46.662 --> 00:43:47.502 I said, 583 00:43:49.635 --> 00:43:50.756 My team is closed. 584 00:43:50.796 --> 00:43:51.977 I've got my two drivers. 585 00:43:52.138 --> 00:43:53.459 Everything is settled. 586 00:43:53.579 --> 00:43:54.420 It's February. 587 00:43:54.760 --> 00:43:56.783 The first race is in two weeks. 588 00:43:57.683 --> 00:43:58.504 Are you crazy? 589 00:43:59.005 --> 00:44:02.649 I said, no, yeah, well, I'm desperate. 590 00:44:03.790 -->

00:44:04.030 No? 591 00:44:04.491 --> 00:44:06.192 Do you know of anybody who said no? 592 00:44:07.594 --> 00:44:09.576 So I called my... 593 00:44:10.569 --> 00:44:21.220 Old engineer in Indy cars, Gary Anderson, who was now working for that team that he arranged me to race Birmingham for. 594 00:44:21.901 --> 00:44:33.733 So he's now the engineer at the Formula 3000 team Bromley Motorsport based near Birmingham in Kings Bromley. 595 00:44:35.730 --> 00:44:38.492 in Leachfield near Kings, probably. 596 00:44:39.312 --> 00:44:42.494 And Gary said to me, Roberto, we have a team. 597 00:44:43.275 --> 00:44:47.117 We've got two mechanics, one truck driver, myself, and the owner. 598 00:44:47.898 --> 00:44:53.221 We don't have any drivers, and we need drivers with sponsorship. 599 00:44:54.421 --> 00:45:00.265 But if you find a free car and a free engine that 600 00:45:02.170 --> 00:45:06.851 we could maybe run you for three races. 601 00:45:07.901 --> 00:45:08.921 I say, are you sure? 602 00:45:08.941 --> 00:45:12.382 I say, yes, but you gotta find a free car and a free engine. 603 00:45:12.422 --> 00:45:14.763 So I went to all the factories. 604 00:45:15.163 --> 00:45:20.184 They, in other than Toranac, well, Toranac couldn't give me a car. 605 00:45:24.086 --> 00:45:29.727 March was able to give me a car, but it would take them four races to deliver one. 606 00:45:31.328 --> 00:45:32.388 Lola the same. 607 00:45:34.465 --> 00:45:43.791 I went to Raynard, who had just built this new wind tunnel car, and they had a car on their showroom. 608 00:45:44.771 --> 00:45:50.514 So I went to Adrian Raynard, I said, please, Adrian, my situation's this, this, this, blah, blah, blah, blah. 609 00:45:51.735 --> 00:45:57.338 And he looked at me and said, Roberto, I would very much like to help you, but this is a business. 610 00:45:58.499 --> 00:46:00.800 And I'm already helping the best people, 611 00:46:01.780 --> 00:46:05.703 British driver since Graham Hill, Johnny Herbert. 612 00:46:06.203 --> 00:46:11.687 He's driving for Eddie Jordan, and I'm behind him, helping him. 613 00:46:12.267 --> 00:46:14.709 He's been testing since September. 614 00:46:15.730 --> 00:46:20.313 We've been the fastest cars in all the testing. 615 00:46:21.559 --> 00:46:27.062 Why am I going to help you as well spend extra money to fight against us? 616 00:46:27.803 --> 00:46:30.964 Plus, it's two weeks before the first race. 617 00:46:30.984 --> 00:46:32.405 You haven't tested the car. 618 00:46:33.146 --> 00:46:36.247 You know, you don't have much chance. 619 00:46:37.368 --> 00:46:39.029 This is ambitious, isn't it? 620 00:46:39.049 --> 00:46:40.510 Like, really, you know? 621 00:46:41.210 --> 00:46:41.490 Yes. 622 00:46:42.171 --> 00:46:43.912 So I had to go. 623 00:46:45.118 --> 00:46:51.002 And I'm driving to the airport thinking my career is complete finished, finally. 624 00:46:52.022 --> 00:46:57.126 And I'm crying my head off like a baby that lost his mother. 625 00:46:58.767 --> 00:47:00.167 Strong crying. 626 00:47:00.668 --> 00:47:11.835 And I stopped in the little shaft not long after to make a phone call to the team to explain that I couldn't get the car. 627 00:47:13.572 --> 00:47:14.213 And that was it. 628 00:47:15.093 --> 00:47:22.840 So Gary Johnson says to me, Roberto, stop crying and go back and get that car. 629 00:47:23.440 --> 00:47:24.241 I say, how? 630 00:47:24.261 --> 00:47:26.122 I say, I don't care. 631 00:47:27.023 --> 00:47:30.246 Go back, find a way to get that car. 632 00:47:30.906 --> 00:47:33.608 I say, don't say anything. 633 00:47:33.668 --> 00:47:35.490 Just go back and do it. 634 00:47:36.866 --> 00:47:40.047 Otherwise, I don't have a job either, he says to me. 635 00:47:40.427 --> 00:47:41.127 I say, okay. 636 00:47:41.447 --> 00:47:42.287 So I drive back. 637 00:47:42.668 --> 00:47:43.608 Factory's closed. 638 00:47:44.388 --> 00:47:47.509 I decided to sleep in the car because I didn't have much money. 639 00:47:47.709 --> 00:47:48.869 I had to save now. 640 00:47:49.509 --> 00:47:51.110 I started the safe mode. 641 00:47:51.310 --> 00:47:51.550 Yes. 642 00:47:51.810 --> 00:47:54.090 So I just slept in the car. 643 00:47:57.831 --> 00:47:59.252 But I had a lot of time to think. 644 00:48:00.278 --> 00:48:09.601 So I came up with an idea in the morning, and I asked to meet the sales manager, Rick Gorn. 645 00:48:10.802 --> 00:48:18.464 Rick at the time was good partners with Adrian Reynard, and I went to him and said, I want to buy your car. 646 00:48:19.204 --> 00:48:20.845 Oh yeah, you came here yesterday. 647 00:48:21.705 --> 00:48:25.286 Adrian told me you wanted a free car, but okay, great. 648 00:48:25.326 --> 00:48:25.887 No problem. 649 00:48:26.327 --> 00:48:27.427 We talked for an hour. 650 00:48:27.867 --> 00:48:29.868 He looked at me and say, how you want to pay? 651 00:48:31.504 --> 00:48:35.085 I looked straight on his eyes, and I say, at the end of the year. 652 00:48:36.446 --> 00:48:38.466 And then all his smile went away. 653 00:48:38.486 --> 00:48:45.188 I say, Roberto, you made me waste an hour of my time to buy a car with no money. 654 00:48:45.208 --> 00:48:49.350 I say, no, I've got the money at the end of the year. 655 00:48:50.317 --> 00:48:51.217 How does that work? 656 00:48:51.917 --> 00:48:53.058 It's very simple, Rick. 657 00:48:53.838 --> 00:48:58.679 I'll take your car, I race, I sell it after the season, give you the money. 658 00:48:59.560 --> 00:49:01.680 Oh, Roberto, we can't do that. 659 00:49:02.720 --> 00:49:09.002 We need money now, or at least find a bank that will give you a guarantee for that money. 660 00:49:10.022 --> 00:49:11.743 So I called Nelson. 661 00:49:12.563 --> 00:49:15.884 I said, Nelson, this is my situation, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 662 00:49:16.858 --> 00:49:17.939 Would you help me? 663 00:49:18.860 --> 00:49:20.621 I just want you to guarantee it. 664 00:49:21.202 --> 00:49:22.362 I might be able to sell it.

665 00:49:22.723 --> 00:49:25.625 You never will have to spend money. 666 00:49:25.885 --> 00:49:40.237 It's worth people noting here because you guys are like brothers, you knew you could always rely on him in that way and that if it ever really, really went to shit – 667 00:49:40.797 --> 00:49:42.298 He would support you. 668 00:49:42.318 --> 00:49:44.679 But you tried not to rely on that, I think. 669 00:49:44.899 --> 00:49:46.239 Indeed. 670 00:49:46.840 --> 00:49:51.902 And then Nelson says to me, okay, what about if you can't sell the car or if you crash the car? 671 00:49:52.662 --> 00:50:02.526 I say, Nelson, I will work on your boat the rest of my life, if necessary, B, until we settle that bill. 672 00:50:02.746 --> 00:50:03.627 How does that sound? 673 00:50:04.267 --> 00:50:05.648 He say, are you sure? 674 00:50:05.708 --> 00:50:07.328 Because I'm going to make you work. 675 00:50:07.348 --> 00:50:08.729 I say, no problem. 676 00:50:09.707 --> 00:50:10.648 That's a lot of money. 677 00:50:10.668 --> 00:50:11.688 I said, no problem. 678 00:50:12.829 --> 00:50:16.391 So give the phone to that shitty guy there. 679 00:50:17.052 --> 00:50:19.854 So I gave the phone to Rick. 680 00:50:20.814 --> 00:50:24.016 And Rick, in two minutes, you can take the car. 681 00:50:25.157 --> 00:50:25.818 But no engine. 682 00:50:25.858 --> 00:50:26.878 You got your chassis. 683 00:50:27.038 --> 00:50:27.639 Hang on. 684 00:50:27.679 --> 00:50:28.940 So I sat down again. 685 00:50:31.021 --> 00:50:32.382 And then Rick said, now what? 686 00:50:32.682 --> 00:50:36.525 I said, Rick, I know I'm against the odds. 687 00:50:36.545 --> 00:50:37.025 Yeah. 688 00:50:37.777 --> 00:50:38.898 I'm starting late. 689 00:50:39.618 --> 00:50:41.400 Championship starts in two weeks. 690 00:50:42.280 --> 00:50:44.062 Haven't tested a car ever. 691 00:50:46.163 --> 00:50:49.085 Your drivers have been testing since September. 692 00:50:50.587 --> 00:50:51.867 They're all very fast. 693 00:50:52.908 --> 00:50:57.131 But if I win the championship, you're going to sell lots of cars the following year, aren't you? 694 00:50:57.512 --> 00:50:57.792 Yes. 695 00:50:59.133 --> 00:51:04.497 Would it be worth if I win the championship to bring your car back and not pay? 696 00:51:04.517 --> 00:51:04.597 Yes. 697 00:51:06.228 --> 00:51:10.153 He said, well, you're not going to win the championship anyhow. 698 00:51:10.213 --> 00:51:11.014 Yeah, why not? 699 00:51:11.594 --> 00:51:12.275 We can do that. 700 00:51:12.836 --> 00:51:13.636 So we shook hands. 701 00:51:15.439 --> 00:51:17.201 I called the engineer, Gary Anderson. 702 00:51:17.221 --> 00:51:19.643 I said, Gary, I got the car. 703 00:51:20.544 --> 00:51:23.327 And then his answer was, you haven't got the engine yet. 704 00:51:24.658 --> 00:51:26.741 So I had an idea. 705 00:51:27.122 --> 00:51:35.293 I remember John Nicholson from Nicholson McLaren Engine, who had built us engine to win the Australian Grand Prix. 706 00:51:35.854 --> 00:51:37.296 He was very happy with me. 707 00:51:37.557 --> 00:51:39.259 Went to see him near Heathrow. 708 00:51:40.446 --> 00:51:41.227 the same day. 709 00:51:42.088 --> 00:51:43.610 And he said, Roberto, no problem. 710 00:51:43.690 --> 00:51:46.334 I want, I've been wanting to get into this series. 711 00:51:47.556 --> 00:51:54.826 And you helped me a lot in, in getting customers in Australia by winning the Australian Grand Prix with my engines. 712 00:51:56.488 --> 00:51:56.929 No problem. 713 00:51:58.405 --> 00:52:00.166 Anyway, first race was no good. 714 00:52:00.507 --> 00:52:02.328 Second race, we finished fourth. 715 00:52:03.109 --> 00:52:05.451 Third race, it was a streets of pole. 716 00:52:05.551 --> 00:52:08.894 I was really good at pole, and I won the race. 717 00:52:09.114 --> 00:52:10.935 In front of John Alessi. 718 00:52:11.055 --> 00:52:11.256 And... 719 00:52:15.533 --> 00:52:16.093 I was sad. 720 00:52:16.113 --> 00:52:17.353 It was my last race. 721 00:52:17.854 --> 00:52:18.674 What am I going to do now? 722 00:52:18.854 --> 00:52:19.274 Yeah. 723 00:52:20.594 --> 00:52:31.557 The owner comes to me on the way back from the price giving thing, and they say, Roberto, they gave me this check for first place. 724 00:52:32.297 --> 00:52:33.578 I did not expect this. 725 00:52:35.078 --> 00:52:40.602 I've got enough money here to race the next race in Silverstone near the house if you like to. 726 00:52:41.282 --> 00:52:42.783 I said, sure, let's do that. 727 00:52:43.364 --> 00:52:44.645 So we went to Silverstone. 728 00:52:45.205 --> 00:52:46.286 We won Silverstone. 729 00:52:46.546 --> 00:52:47.627 We got another check. 730 00:52:48.527 --> 00:52:49.588 We went to Monza. 731 00:52:50.644 --> 00:52:53.386 We won Monza, we got another check. 732 00:52:53.807 --> 00:53:10.402 I was hired by Ferrari to develop their first ever same automatic gearbox in Formula One, which I did 55 days from, I believe, September, October to March. 733 00:53:12.023 --> 00:53:15.687 And the car won its first race in Brazil with that gearbox. 734 00:53:17.728 --> 00:53:30.995 And I still remember a situation, a Ferrari, that they used to break this engine on the dyno, and there was a million pieces, and they didn't know what first broke to try to fix it. 735 00:53:32.116 --> 00:53:42.442 So driving one of these engines, developing the gearbox, one day I had a vibration, and I shut everything off and pressed the clutch very quickly. 736 00:53:43.698 --> 00:53:51.304 And the engineers did not like what I've done, but I said, look, I shut it off because it's going to break. 737 00:53:52.104 --> 00:53:55.187 There's a vibration that something is happening inside. 738 00:53:56.412 --> 00:53:59.334 And then they looked at all the details on the data. 739 00:53:59.354 --> 00:54:00.655 They couldn't see anything. 740 00:54:00.695 --> 00:54:02.437 They were just about to start the engine. 741 00:54:03.037 --> 00:54:06.239 I had to fight

the engineer not to start the engine. 742 00:54:06.260 --> 00:54:07.320 I said, please wait. 743 00:54:07.681 --> 00:54:09.742 I'm going to go inside and speak with the boss. 744 00:54:10.383 --> 00:54:14.926 I convinced the boss that there was something wrong, that he had to take that engine out. 745 00:54:15.426 --> 00:54:15.827 And check it. 746 00:54:16.667 --> 00:54:17.288 and checked it. 747 00:54:17.348 --> 00:54:42.746 So a couple of days later, I got a phone call to come to Ferrari factory and they gave me a Ferrari F40, which was in the development stages in 1988, for me to drive two weeks anywhere I wanted as a bonus for helping them finding out what was going to break on the engine and fix it before it broke. 748 00:54:43.007 --> 00:54:43.527 Crazy. 749 00:54:43.747 --> 00:54:44.187 Crazy. 750 00:54:44.567 --> 00:54:47.188 A few little footnotes here as we move along. 751 00:54:47.328 --> 00:54:53.690 Firstly, that podium, I think, in Monza, you've got a tap on the race suit. 752 00:54:53.710 --> 00:54:54.971 You're spraying the champagne. 753 00:54:55.511 --> 00:54:57.712 Someone says to you, hey, here's a business card. 754 00:54:57.932 --> 00:54:59.032 Please call this number. 755 00:54:59.672 --> 00:55:07.575 You waited a few days and your wife was almost about to wash the race suit and you found the business card and you rang it and you talk with Pee Wee. 756 00:55:07.675 --> 00:55:12.237 And this is Marco Piccinini, who is number two to Enzo, basically, at this stage, isn't he? 757 00:55:12.277 --> 00:55:12.917 He was the man. 758 00:55:13.490 --> 00:55:30.259 At the time, Marco Piccinini did everything that had to... Everything for Ferrari, Formula One team, he was the man because Anzo was already a little sick and Marco used to do everything for him. 759 00:55:30.779 --> 00:55:40.865 And the development, that role that you took with him, the development of that gearbox, that is when you look at the timeline, I mean, they've been around Formula One for so long and they've had many special moments, right? 760 00:55:41.325 --> 00:55:41.886 But that was a... 761 00:55:42.988 --> 00:55:48.252 pivotal thing that they made, a very, very important thing that you helped to develop. 762 00:55:48.432 --> 00:55:54.596 And I have in my house the very, very first same automatic steering wheel ever built. 763 00:55:54.756 --> 00:55:56.057 Fantastic. 764 00:55:56.137 --> 00:55:59.620 Just as a trophy for it. 765 00:56:00.020 --> 00:56:04.904 One day I'll sell it to pay for my grandkids' college maybe. 766 00:56:04.924 --> 00:56:05.924 So... 767 00:56:07.505 --> 00:56:10.947 So that year after Monza, we still have a few races. 768 00:56:10.987 --> 00:56:13.029 I'm on the lead of the championship now. 769 00:56:15.950 --> 00:56:17.211 Ferrari signed me up. 770 00:56:17.451 --> 00:56:25.956 I made good money to become a test driver for Ferrari, became a Marlboro guy, and they gave me money to finish the season in 3000. 771 00:56:28.152 --> 00:56:33.873 And we won the championship two races before the end, which was unique up to then. 772 00:56:34.333 --> 00:56:42.915 We won three races on the road, which was the hat trick that never been done, should have been done in 87, but I didn't do it. 773 00:56:43.615 --> 00:56:46.156 And I was able to do it in 88. 774 00:56:48.117 --> 00:56:54.078 And we won a total of four races, which was a record in Formula 3000 to that point. 775 00:56:55.043 --> 00:56:59.110 So at the end of the year, I took the car back to Rick Gorn. 776 00:56:59.170 --> 00:57:01.113 I say, thank you very much, Rick. 777 00:57:02.350 --> 00:57:03.171 I called Nelson. 778 00:57:03.191 --> 00:57:05.353 I said, well, I'm not going to work on the boat. 779 00:57:05.553 --> 00:57:07.115 And I don't need your money. 780 00:57:07.135 --> 00:57:10.018 And better yet, I'm not going to work on the boat. 781 00:57:10.919 --> 00:57:13.101 So we'll leave that for next time. 782 00:57:13.722 --> 00:57:15.503 So Nelson was very pleased with me. 783 00:57:16.004 --> 00:57:19.487 And things moved on. 784 00:57:20.168 --> 00:57:24.452 And then the following year, I had a Formula One deal that Ferrari signed me up for. 785 00:57:25.633 --> 00:57:38.762 And I could have had the F1 position with Ferrari had not Enzo died and Piccinini changed, left Ferrari. 786 00:57:39.322 --> 00:57:49.469 The new management for Ferrari from Fiat came and took over the Ferrari Formula One factory. 787 00:57:50.370 --> 00:57:50.550 And... 788 00:57:51.707 --> 00:58:00.752 This guy, they used to call him Hollywood because he always had these dark glasses, Fiorio. 789 00:58:01.813 --> 00:58:05.375 He had to change everything that Piccinini had done. 790 00:58:06.015 --> 00:58:13.840 From John Barnard to all the test drivers, all the drivers, everything he changed that Piccinini did. 791 00:58:20.942 --> 00:58:28.488 From pioneering a significant change and the immense satisfaction in that to being reminded that it's a changed business. 792 00:58:28.628 --> 00:58:32.470 That is the end of part two of my feature episode with Roberto Moreno. 793 00:58:32.530 --> 00:58:36.433 Now, we don't often do this, but there is a part three for you. 794 00:58:36.553 --> 00:58:42.698 He's a talker and there's still some ripper yarns to come that he wants to share on F1, IndyCar and more. 795 00:58:42.738 --> 00:58:45.540 When you're ready, head back to the library and hit the gas. 796 00:58:46.060 --> 00:58:46.921 You won't be disappointed.