رونوشت کامل How VC’s Are Transforming Startups Remotely with SignalFire’s Heather Doshay - ep. 077

this wood right here, you see. 00:02:31.497 --> 00:02:33.266 I came right in from the forest. 00:02:34.187 --> 00:02:34.516 Yeah. 00:02:35.701 --> 00:02:36.781 Such a bob, dude. 00:02:36.792 --> 00:02:37.231 You're such a 00:02:37.417 --> 00:02:40.507 So, if anybody doesn't know, that was my Maine accent coming out. 00:02:40.516 --> 00:02:41.796 Kaleem and I are both from Maine. 00:02:42.137 --> 00:02:43.166 You'll figure that out. 00:02:43.807 --> 00:02:44.757 But hey, everybody. 00:02:44.937 --> 00:02:45.627 Welcome back. 00:02:45.637 --> 00:02:46.576 Thanks for joining us. 00:02:46.586 --> 00:02:49.216 Since you know how to find us now, do us a huge favor. 00:02:49.394 --> 00:02:50.923 Go to RateThisPodcast. 00:02:50.973 --> 00:02:55.274 com forward slash RemotelyOne and just leave us a review. 00:02:55.274 --> 00:02:57.047 That's all we ask. 00:02:57.047 --> 00:02:57.932 Again, RateThisPodcast. 00:02:57.932 --> 00:03:02.805 com forward slash RemotelyOne and we would be ever so thankful. 00:03:02.805 --> 00:03:14.223 Since 2015, RemotelyOne is one of the largest communities of remote work professionals with over 3, 000 Slack members and 5, 000 email subscribers. 00:03:14.233 --> 00:03:15.923 That number has got to be higher by now. 00:03:16.454 --> 00:03:17.613 I would imagine, right? 00:03:21.990 --> 00:03:25.091 Yeah, so go check it out at RemotelyOne. 00:03:25.091 --> 00:03:28.821 com where we do not have 5 foot longs, but you'll be just as happy. 00:03:29.375 --> 00:03:30.165 That's true. 00:03:30.769 --> 00:03:34.350 with that out of the way, Kaleem, give us a tease or two about today's guest. 00:03:34.456 --> 00:03:41.014 And you know, Rick, every single time we interview these people, I start sweating like I'm in the movie airplane. 00:03:41.374 --> 00:03:42.514 Oh my gosh. 00:03:42.543 --> 00:03:46.254 We have the sweat towel hanging out, the moisture's building. 00:03:46.254 --> 00:03:53.110 I got my four sweatshirts on and today's guests, they know some things, they've done some things. 00:03:53.406 --> 00:03:54.326 we're going to get learnt. 00:03:54.781 --> 00:03:55.560 Oh my gosh. 00:03:55.571 --> 00:03:57.571 Learned and educated. 00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:04.358 Our guest, they grew up on the left coast in Los Angeles, Los Angeles. 00:04:05.538 --> 00:04:07.637 My favorite teams, the Lakers, R. 00:04:07.637 --> 00:04:07.718 I. 00:04:07.718 --> 00:04:07.898 P. 00:04:07.898 --> 00:04:08.278 Kobe. 00:04:08.278 --> 00:04:09.187 I love the Lakers. 00:04:09.197 --> 00:04:09.687 Let's go. 00:04:10.867 --> 00:04:11.567 Let's see. 00:04:11.827 --> 00:04:18.358 They currently reside in Portland, Oregon, you know, the second Portland Rick, which we know it's really the second Portland. 00:04:18.622 --> 00:04:19.523 It's number two. 00:04:20.398 --> 00:04:23.788 number two that I mean the record books state it. 00:04:24.098 --> 00:04:25.457 Okay, Portland Mains 00:04:25.562 --> 00:04:29.213 Everybody was born in the east and moved west. 00:04:30.978 --> 00:04:31.317 Rick. 00:04:32.132 --> 00:04:35.413 Every single time though, we get people on the show. 00:04:36.322 --> 00:04:39.202 I feel like I need to go back to college 00:04:40.012 --> 00:04:42.093 Oh, we're definitely out college on this one. 00:04:42.512 --> 00:04:42.853 Yes. 00:04:42.853 --> 00:04:43.562 Check this out. 00:04:43.701 --> 00:04:45.632 Our guests today, they're addicted to education. 00:04:45.641 --> 00:04:47.141 They're just addicted to learning 00:04:47.281 --> 00:04:48.041 is great. 00:04:48.221 --> 00:04:48.822 It is great. 00:04:48.951 --> 00:04:49.382 It is great. 00:04:49.391 --> 00:04:55.572 First, they got the Bachelors of Literature and Writing from UC San Diego, University of California, San Diego, because you didn't know what that was. 00:04:56.062 --> 00:04:59.711 They got their Masters in Adult Learning and Higher Education from, you ready? 00:05:00.451 --> 00:05:01.221 Columbia. 00:05:01.901 --> 00:05:02.201 Just a 00:05:02.471 --> 00:05:02.581 Oh! 00:05:02.741 --> 00:05:05.871 tiny, just a small, tiny, little school. 00:05:05.871 --> 00:05:06.991 Columbia's Ivy, isn't it? 00:05:07.741 --> 00:05:08.841 Is that one of the Ivies? 00:05:09.111 --> 00:05:09.961 Is that one of the Ivies? 00:05:10.002 --> 00:05:10.331 Okay. 00:05:10.331 --> 00:05:10.741 Okay. 00:05:10.882 --> 00:05:11.331 Okay. 00:05:11.801 --> 00:05:14.611 And then Rick, she just couldn't stop there. 00:05:14.931 --> 00:05:23.161 She just had to keep learning and she got her doctorate in organizational leadership from the University of San Francisco. 00:05:23.171 --> 00:05:25.512 So one, two, she's a trifecta. 00:05:25.738 --> 00:05:26.016 Yeah. 00:05:26.096 --> 00:05:26.366 Yeah. 00:05:26.406 --> 00:05:27.836 We're going to have a lot of questions. 00:05:27.846 --> 00:05:27.856 A 00:05:28.157 --> 00:05:31.038 She started a career off in higher education, had a great career. 00:05:31.038 --> 00:05:33.137 There was a faculty member worked for teaching center. 00:05:33.377 --> 00:05:35.627 She transitioned to a few different startups. 00:05:35.927 --> 00:05:39.288 She's an official member of the Forbes HR Council. 00:05:39.288 --> 00:05:42.627 Rick, her partner is a geek, 00:05:43.627 --> 00:05:44.097 Okay. 00:05:45.298 --> 00:05:47.407 Is a self proclaimed dork. 00:05:47.407 --> 00:05:47.507 I don't, 00:05:48.427 --> 00:05:51.737 We're going to have to define the differences there because this is an important topic. 00:05:51.978 --> 00:05:53.527 exactly, but you know what? 00:05:53.897 --> 00:05:55.777 She says it because she loves puns. 00:05:55.788 --> 00:05:57.137 She absolutely loves puns. 00:05:57.567 --> 00:05:59.728 And listen to the name that she gave her dog. 00:06:00.147 --> 00:06:01.437 Audience, you ready for this? 00:06:01.737 --> 00:06:04.298 Her dog's name, Charles Barkley. 00:06:07.544 --> 00:06:08.334 I love it. 00:06:09.229 --> 00:06:10.259 Charles Barkley. 00:06:10.769 --> 00:06:13.129 Why am I so old in this

fucking game? 00:06:13.319 --> 00:06:15.750 Like, it just makes me want to crack up. 00:06:16.269 --> 00:06:18.104 Woof! Woof! Charles Barkley. 00:06:18.104 --> 00:06:18.615 Sorry, sir. 00:06:18.615 --> 00:06:19.274 Charles. 00:06:19.354 --> 00:06:21.305 How many dogs are named Charles Barkley? 00:06:21.305 --> 00:06:22.125 I would love to know. 00:06:22.125 --> 00:06:23.865 Oh my god That'd be funny as shit. 00:06:24.484 --> 00:06:25.704 We got to see if we can get sir. 00:06:25.734 --> 00:06:28.875 Charles on what did you say scotty puppet do? 00:06:31.234 --> 00:06:32.115 Oh my gosh. 00:06:32.534 --> 00:06:32.865 Listen. 00:06:32.875 --> 00:06:49.971 Our guest uh used to be the senior vp of people at places in rainforest q a the former vp of this tiny Little company, they're small, you might not have heard of them, they do these websites, the company's called Webflow, she's the former VP of people at Webflow. 00:06:50.632 --> 00:06:51.801 Oh, that's my website. 00:06:51.981 --> 00:06:53.671 That's what I use to build my website. 00:06:53.752 --> 00:06:55.882 think I have a website on that as well. 00:06:55.882 --> 00:06:57.581 Rick fantastic. 00:06:57.581 --> 00:06:58.341 Shout out Drupal though. 00:06:58.351 --> 00:06:59.132 Shout out Drupal still. 00:06:59.262 --> 00:07:03.366 and then she's an advisor, so she loves to share her knowledge. 00:07:03.366 --> 00:07:06.127 She's an advisor at people text partners. 00:07:06.495 --> 00:07:22.221 She is a partner at signal fire, which is a venture capital firm that helps early stage founders, listeners and viewers, please give a warm welcome to Heather Doshie! 00:07:23.625 --> 00:07:27.265 Alright! Woo hoo hoo! 00:07:27.680 --> 00:07:27.781 Woo! 00:07:28.005 --> 00:07:28.645 Thank you. 00:07:29.385 --> 00:07:33.145 That was the best introduction I've ever had, and my dog got an intro. 00:07:34.216 --> 00:07:34.895 the best part. 00:07:35.211 --> 00:07:36.871 I mean, can you hear these people, Heather? 00:07:36.871 --> 00:07:37.591 They're crazy. 00:07:37.591 --> 00:07:38.062 about you. 00:07:38.062 --> 00:07:38.971 This is insane. 00:07:39.871 --> 00:07:41.991 I feel like a contestant on The Price is Right. 00:07:42.796 --> 00:07:43.166 Whew. 00:07:43.986 --> 00:07:44.507 Oh. 00:07:44.671 --> 00:07:44.931 down! 00:07:45.346 --> 00:07:46.447 That was intense. 00:07:47.181 --> 00:07:47.711 Yes. 00:07:48.072 --> 00:07:49.091 the accolades. 00:07:49.231 --> 00:07:50.841 Heather, thank you so much for joining us. 00:07:50.961 --> 00:07:51.442 Thank you. 00:07:51.892 --> 00:07:53.437 Yes, great to have you on the show. 00:07:53.437 --> 00:07:56.036 And thank you for tolerating our juvenile sense of humor. 00:07:56.036 --> 00:07:56.706 It's amazing. 00:07:57.406 --> 00:07:58.716 Oh, I'm like a 14 year old boy. 00:07:58.716 --> 00:07:59.317 It's perfect. 00:07:59.317 --> 00:07:59.947 We'll have a great time. 00:08:00.201 --> 00:08:00.692 I love it. 00:08:00.692 --> 00:08:02.181 You're gonna fit right in around here. 00:08:04.341 --> 00:08:11.901 So we have, obviously, I mean, who knows where to start with your experience, your education, and all the things that you've done. 00:08:11.901 --> 00:08:14.942 You have such an impressive background. 00:08:15.252 --> 00:08:19.091 And where you and I have some things in common is Greek life on campus. 00:08:19.601 --> 00:08:46.000 And as, as you and I both know, Greek life tends to promote, leaders and whatnot, but in, in your experience, your background leaning so heavily in, in leadership and human connection, how does that all come into play at such an early stage in life, especially in college, when people are just trying to figure out who they are and where they want to go professionally and why are those topics so critical to remote work? 00:08:46.344 --> 00:08:48.524 Great question, and complex question, too. 00:08:48.524 --> 00:08:58.526 So, um, Well, for me personally, I joined Greek Life because I went to a school where the first few weeks I had a hard time really finding the right connections and community where I was. 00:08:58.526 --> 00:09:04.375 And so for me, joining a sorority was a way to build in a group of people that I could do the activities I wanted to do. 00:09:04.816 --> 00:09:07.225 And I sort of took it for granted, but I worked my way up. 00:09:07.225 --> 00:09:13.036 I did a bunch of leadership positions and found myself graduating college and trying to figure out what do I do with it. 00:09:13.266 --> 00:09:18.296 And so I actually became a Greek advisor for my first few jobs out of school advising fraternities and sororities in colleges. 00:09:18.316 --> 00:09:27.846 And, watching it from the other side, in some ways you kind of see, How silly and petty it can be because it's taken so seriously and it can be relatively exclusive. 00:09:28.115 --> 00:09:31.456 And people say, like, you buy your friends, even though there are so many benefits. 00:09:31.506 --> 00:09:35.326 But on the other hand, it's a really critical, formative experience for a lot of people. 00:09:35.576 --> 00:09:39.316 And there are places for everyone to go if they want to join one. 00:09:39.326 --> 00:09:43.516 It's just that a lot of people think it's not for them, so they maybe don't even put themselves there in the first place. 00:09:43.806 --> 00:09:54.536 But it's funny, when I actually studied my doctorate, I didn't know that this was gonna be a finding in my dissertation research, but I looked at women going into the career workforce because we understand women earn less than men. 00:09:54.536 --> 00:10:02.996 There's all these pieces out in the world that we know about work, and I wanted to understand how does college serve or not serve as a great equalizer for people from underrepresented groups? 00:10:02.996 --> 00:10:05.235 And I focused in on women for this particular study. 00:10:05.556 --> 00:10:18.406 And for women, it found that next to student athlete and internship and, student

government, sorority life was almost exactly equal to those in terms of what will most likely have someone be most successful in their career. 00:10:19.021 --> 00:10:25.850 And the kind of truth of why might surprise you a lot of people will say, Oh, it's because it teaches leadership skills and there's all these positions. 00:10:25.901 --> 00:10:28.371 That's not what people said in the study. 00:10:28.371 --> 00:10:32.771 What people were saying was I thought rejection for the first time, but I got past it, right? 00:10:32.771 --> 00:10:42.071 Like, the more you get rejected in your life, the more you realize I can grow past this and it makes you kind of thicker skin and stronger, less afraid to go for jobs, less afraid to negotiate all those things. 00:10:42.081 --> 00:10:44.331 So for me, ultimately, that's what it did for me. 00:10:44.331 --> 00:10:46.161 I think, even though I didn't know it at the time. 00:10:46.862 --> 00:10:55.262 so it's like a lot of people don't realize how much rejection can actually be a confidence builder when everyone else sees it as like a detriment, 00:10:55.403 --> 00:10:55.963 Mm hmm. 00:10:56.295 --> 00:10:57.158 Absolutely. 00:10:57.248 --> 00:11:06.445 when you learn something like that at an early age, you, 19 years old and you've experienced that, but you're around people who are also there to support you. 00:11:07.220 --> 00:11:17.570 So that when you get out into the real world and you're in an office setting and you're trying to find your way professionally, you already have that thick skin already going into it. 00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:19.220 That's amazing. 00:11:19.330 --> 00:11:20.320 What a discovery. 00:11:20.889 --> 00:11:27.389 An embarrassing story, but when I was in college, I ran for my sorority president of my particular sorority, and I lost. 00:11:27.670 --> 00:11:33.575 And I was on the couch with, like, A pile of tissues being pathetic, crying for like days afterwards. 00:11:33.575 --> 00:11:35.264 This is so sad when I look back on it. 00:11:35.445 --> 00:11:38.575 But it was my same sorority sisters who came to me, brought me things, like took care of me. 00:11:38.805 --> 00:11:42.795 And I ended up applying to be the Panhellenic president instead, so for the sorority system. 00:11:42.795 --> 00:11:43.504 And I won that. 00:11:43.525 --> 00:11:48.884 And so it's like each time you fail, if you don't give up, you sort of fail up and you get something better and better. 00:11:48.884 --> 00:11:54.555 And that's honestly a theme throughout my career that I learned there is like, it feels like shame and embarrassment that you were rejected. 00:11:55.009 --> 00:11:56.420 But it was just one opportunity. 00:11:56.420 --> 00:12:00.430 There are thousands of opportunities all around you at any time if you just kind of know where to look for them. 00:12:00.643 --> 00:12:06.432 yeah, what's interesting is uh, One of the presidents at the university I used to be a part of. 00:12:06.461 --> 00:12:07.622 I'm a former president. 00:12:07.692 --> 00:12:17.805 We're kind of standing around talking and He actually can't talked about this concept of keg learning the idea that you can learn around the keg. 00:12:18.235 --> 00:12:23.715 So, yeah, don't act like you're not learning how to, you know, use the kegerator in a sorority or fraternity either. 00:12:23.715 --> 00:12:28.965 I mean, there's a lots of skills, Rick, that you've, you know, learned from the kegerator. 00:12:28.985 --> 00:12:30.285 So I'm just saying, 00:12:30.296 --> 00:12:32.598 I built a career around kegerators. 00:12:33.018 --> 00:12:35.868 Yeah, so this president was like, actually, believe it or not. 00:12:36.158 --> 00:12:42.508 You know, we'd be all around the keg pouring a beverage and somebody would say something about political science. 00:12:42.508 --> 00:12:48.708 And we would have, you know, let's say an insightful conversation around the keg around that. 00:12:48.708 --> 00:12:49.828 So it's pretty interesting. 00:12:49.918 --> 00:12:51.538 Um, I have a question. 00:12:52.338 --> 00:12:52.807 Yes. 00:12:53.028 --> 00:12:58.578 I noticed that you did a lot of your career was in higher education. 00:12:58.608 --> 00:12:59.818 And I noticed that. 00:13:00.363 --> 00:13:03.293 You worked at a teaching center. 00:13:04.083 --> 00:13:06.983 Not very many people know too much about the teaching center. 00:13:06.983 --> 00:13:10.453 Was it actually named the Tracy Seely Center? 00:13:10.883 --> 00:13:13.993 Was that the name of the center or the Center for Teaching Excellence? 00:13:14.043 --> 00:13:15.103 At what 00:13:15.488 --> 00:13:16.848 University of San Francisco. 00:13:16.878 --> 00:13:21.235 It might be now named that, but at the time it was just the Center for Teaching Excellence. 00:13:21.235 --> 00:13:21.776 Yeah. 00:13:22.056 --> 00:13:22.376 Yeah. 00:13:22.376 --> 00:13:26.475 So I also worked at a faculty development center at Kennesaw State University. 00:13:26.576 --> 00:13:31.686 We had, you know, did for 12 years as director of operations in strategic initiatives. 00:13:31.686 --> 00:13:38.196 So I would love to know, what did you learn in that experience? 00:13:38.656 --> 00:13:44.211 You know, managing programs Helping faculty learn how to teach better. 00:13:44.871 --> 00:13:48.891 What lessons did you take from that to kind of move on to your next career? 00:13:49.411 --> 00:13:54.661 Well, and not to turn back on you, but I want to hear the same from you after it's because you also have that same experience. 00:13:54.691 --> 00:14:06.841 And I'm curious if we came up the same way, but, I would say, like, teachers make a huge difference on people's lives, not just in, like, the curriculum they build, but the way that they show a belief in a student, and it can make or break somebody. 00:14:07.051 --> 00:14:08.501 And so it's like such a critical role. 00:14:08.501 --> 00:14:44.480 People don't realize that they play is when, You actually

believe that your student can achieve whatever outcome it is and you even if it's a hard Like kind of tough love the student actually performs better to it than if they didn't And so those unconscious biases that exist for students are so critical at every stage through college So I think that was my biggest takeaway And then I think personally as I also say that job was the first time I realized I wanted to do remote work because Faculty they go on sabbatical for like a year at a time or, they really work during the school year, but in the summers it's quiet, but I was on the program side. 00:14:44.480 --> 00:14:48.360 So I was in this sad little office with no windows, all year round. 00:14:48.550 --> 00:14:53.000 But for the summer, I like, would like send an email each day and be like, I'm not going to hear back for three months. 00:14:53.000 --> 00:14:54.190 I don't want to overwhelm their inbox. 00:14:54.190 --> 00:14:59.790 So I just like would sit there and I started working on my graduate school studies instead because there was like really nothing to do and I kept thinking. 00:15:00.310 --> 00:15:05.230 I'm sitting in this office like four by four office by myself, and there's nobody here. 00:15:05.280 --> 00:15:08.830 I could be doing this from home like why do I have to commit and like check in at 8 a. 00:15:08.830 --> 00:15:08.960 m. 00:15:08.960 --> 00:15:09.700 And out at 5 p. 00:15:09.700 --> 00:15:09.810 m. 00:15:09.810 --> 00:15:30.215 Every day when I'm sitting at a computer and not talking to anybody so I will say professionally Teachers are so important if you are a teacher, and you're listening or if you know a teacher like give them a hug and They do incredible work professors and all the way through K through 12 But also whoa like this was 20 2012, 2013, I think is when I was in that program. 00:15:30.445 --> 00:15:33.045 And remote work didn't seem like an option. 00:15:33.045 --> 00:15:34.315 I never even knew it could be. 00:15:34.625 --> 00:15:37.134 But I was like, wait a second, something's wrong here. 00:15:37.225 --> 00:15:37.675 So. 00:15:39.259 --> 00:15:44.940 So when the pandemic came around, You are obviously well ensconced into this way of life. 00:15:44.940 --> 00:15:47.660 So Can you talk a little bit about how that? 00:15:48.310 --> 00:15:54.990 You know, like you had to have been watching people around you and in other industries Just flipping out like we were at the time, right? 00:15:55.410 --> 00:16:00.610 But you probably weren't because you were well prepared So talk to me about what that was like 00:16:01.540 --> 00:16:05.670 Yeah, so I guess how I got into remote work first and then kind of how it was for me at the pandemic. 00:16:05.680 --> 00:16:10.300 So I was at Webflow then, by the way, and very beautiful story of how we were able to handle it. 00:16:10.300 --> 00:16:14.660 But for me personally, I was working for a company that was remote friendly. 00:16:14.840 --> 00:16:20.500 And so Rainforest QA, about 30 percent of the team was globally distributed around the world and 70 percent was in the office. 00:16:20.500 --> 00:16:21.759 And I was the VP of people. 00:16:21.759 --> 00:16:24.625 And I thought, HR isn't the job that gets to go work remote. 00:16:24.655 --> 00:16:27.595 Like, HR has to be in the office, but I really wanted to work remote. 00:16:27.625 --> 00:16:30.185 Like, I had wanted it ever since I was in the university world. 00:16:30.495 --> 00:16:34.055 And so, I kind of just got an exception to work from home, like, one or two days a week. 00:16:34.335 --> 00:16:36.235 And every time I do that, I loved those days. 00:16:36.245 --> 00:16:46.245 There's something about, Having the flexibility to just start working, and then maybe take breaks as you need maybe you work a longer day, like, that flexibility for me is so huge because I think in spurts get energy in spurts. 00:16:46.514 --> 00:16:47.715 And I love that flexibility. 00:16:47.725 --> 00:16:49.165 I'm also kind of an introvert. 00:16:49.165 --> 00:16:51.935 I'm an outgoing introvert, so no one ever thinks that's the case. 00:16:52.245 --> 00:16:55.815 But I lose energy, like, spending my lunch break talking to people. 00:16:55.815 --> 00:16:57.634 I want to sit by myself and talk to nobody. 00:16:57.905 --> 00:17:09.494 And so I realized like this is good for me and when I wanted to go remote I remember I thought I should move permanently and it actually wasn't just to go remote It was because I wanted to move to Portland and my company was in San Francisco My sister had moved to Portland. 00:17:09.714 --> 00:17:18.974 I was looking to buy a house houses in San Francisco are ridiculous If you've ever looked at the listings could not afford one, but my sister showed me Portland I was like, oh I could actually buy something there. 00:17:19.224 --> 00:17:32.694 And so I Basically made this big like Google slides presentation for my CEO about like how I it was gonna be effective if I went remote And here's why and here's all the things and it was like slide one and I showed him and he Am I allowed to swear on this podcast? 00:17:33.109 --> 00:17:33.440 Yeah, of 00:17:33.684 --> 00:17:33.724 of 00:17:33.950 --> 00:17:37.930 Okay, because his response in his British accent, which I can't do, was like, Fuck yeah, go remote. 00:17:37.930 --> 00:17:38.720 Like, first slide. 00:17:38.720 --> 00:17:40.059 I'm like, wait, but I have slides for you. 00:17:40.059 --> 00:17:41.069 Can I show you the slides? 00:17:41.069 --> 00:17:42.839 And he's like, sure, show me your slides. 00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:44.025 But, like, the answer is yes. 00:17:44.025 --> 00:17:48.145 And so, I show him my ten slides, and then I go remote, and I don't look back. 00:17:48.395 --> 00:17:55.355 And I was nervous when I Because when I wanted to change roles to a new company, I was like, who's going to hire me when I'm remote in Portland? 00:17:55.355 --> 00:17:57.826 I'm gonna have to find a

job in Portland, but I don't want that. 00:17:57.855 --> 00:18:02.888 I want to keep working remote and luckily Webflow came into my life at, like, the most perfect time. 00:18:03.083 --> 00:18:04.236 Roughly what year is this? 00:18:04.255 --> 00:18:11.265 I started talking with Webflow very early 2019, and I joined in March, actually during my birthday, March 18th, 2019. 00:18:11.566 --> 00:18:15.975 And so this was about 9, you know, about exactly a year before we all shut down for the pandemic. 00:18:16.205 --> 00:18:24.455 But Webflow was kind of like Rainforest, but flipped in that, whereas Rainforest was like 20, 30 percent remote, 70, 80 percent in office. 00:18:24.795 --> 00:18:28.255 Webflow was 20, 30 percent in office, 70, 80 percent remote. 00:18:28.935 --> 00:18:31.165 And so the difference in that is so huge. 00:18:31.165 --> 00:18:39.615 I think for companies who think about working remote, having more than half of your workforce outside of office makes it so much easier because you do things remote first way. 00:18:39.615 --> 00:18:40.535 Like, that's your majority. 00:18:40.535 --> 00:18:41.615 That's who you're planning for. 00:18:41.875 --> 00:18:43.316 And so I was able to be hired that way. 00:18:43.326 --> 00:18:44.175 It was outstanding. 00:18:44.385 --> 00:18:46.195 So we'd like 9 months later, so I don't know. 00:18:46.455 --> 00:18:49.705 Yeah, I guess the world started kind of shutting down like February, March. 00:18:49.806 --> 00:19:04.545 Maybe 10 months later after I joined and then I think all the announcements happened like the week before my birthday I think was March 13th at 2020 I mean I had been there for a year but Webflow was already set up to be remote first So that 20 30 percent go work from home and everything would be fine. 00:19:04.826 --> 00:19:06.502 You know, I always thought It'll be easy. 00:19:06.502 --> 00:19:07.532 We're already set up for this. 00:19:07.562 --> 00:19:14.298 I didn't account for The mental health and the civic unrest and all the things that were happening around us all combined together. 00:19:14.298 --> 00:19:16.067 That was like a pressure cooker, I think, for James. 00:19:16.367 --> 00:19:21.778 But other than that, because Webflow was such a remote friendly company, and still is, it was much easier to navigate, 00:19:22.153 --> 00:19:32.335 you know, it makes sense because Webflow is a website builder and Needed a lot of developers and traditionally, you know, in my experience too. 00:19:32.335 --> 00:19:35.355 I learned a lot about remote work from the developer community. 00:19:35.894 --> 00:19:43.125 But even so you talked about some of the pains that you all experienced already being a remote first company. 00:19:43.125 --> 00:19:55.574 So what was it like during that period when everybody needs a website and everybody's putting their resources into online, you know, presence? 00:19:56.074 --> 00:19:59.335 I'm assuming Webflow needed to hire more people. 00:20:00.184 --> 00:20:03.744 What was it like being the director of people at that time? 00:20:04.329 --> 00:20:10.139 was there growth in what were some of the things that even a remote first company that was doing this for a while? 00:20:10.139 --> 00:20:12.279 What were some of the things that you all struggled with? 00:20:12.865 --> 00:20:14.224 Yeah, it's a great question. 00:20:14.234 --> 00:20:15.484 So it's funny. 00:20:15.585 --> 00:20:16.394 March hits. 00:20:16.625 --> 00:20:22.294 And if you remember, a lot of companies just jumped to doing layoffs right away because they realized, Oh, shoot, like a lot of the world is going to change. 00:20:22.294 --> 00:20:26.044 We need to like hunker down, save our dollars, like manage our burn. 00:20:26.504 --> 00:20:28.734 And our team brought up the same thing. 00:20:28.845 --> 00:20:31.625 And I remember saying like, wait, hold on. 00:20:31.944 --> 00:20:33.474 Some companies are going to do really well. 00:20:33.524 --> 00:20:35.554 And some companies are going to do really poorly in this time. 00:20:35.694 --> 00:20:38.264 And a lot of it's macro and we don't know which one we're going to be at. 00:20:38.264 --> 00:20:39.254 We need to wait and see. 00:20:39.429 --> 00:20:41.089 So I remember I worked with our finance leader. 00:20:41.089 --> 00:20:45.389 We built a bunch of contingency plans to kind of figure out if this happens, this is how I'll respond. 00:20:45.429 --> 00:20:50.210 And I remember, and Vlad Magdalena, the CEO of Webflow, such a wonderful human being. 00:20:50.480 --> 00:20:53.009 I remember him saying, I don't want to lay off a single person. 00:20:53.009 --> 00:20:56.399 If I have to take a dollar salary a year, I'm going to do it before we lay off a single person. 00:20:56.429 --> 00:21:00.039 Like that's kind of the mentality that he had going into it, which was a huge support. 00:21:00.039 --> 00:21:00.519 Not everybody 00:21:00.554 --> 00:21:02.054 This isn't the guy from England, right? 00:21:02.140 --> 00:21:06.003 No, no, well, he's actually born in Russia and then immigrated to Sacramento, um, 00:21:06.047 --> 00:21:06.563 Oh, okay. 00:21:07.395 --> 00:21:09.025 The guy from England is Rainforest, yeah. 00:21:09.285 --> 00:21:10.915 And this one, much fewer expletives. 00:21:11.235 --> 00:21:13.145 Kind of a very different personality. 00:21:13.155 --> 00:21:14.265 Couldn't be more different from you. 00:21:15.125 --> 00:21:15.455 Um. 00:21:15.855 --> 00:21:16.935 Well, it's quite a cock up. 00:21:16.965 --> 00:21:21.205 One minute you're working in the office, the next minute Bob's your uncle, you're working from home. 00:21:22.090 --> 00:21:23.030 Cork up a 00:21:23.105 --> 00:21:23.375 No, 00:21:23.420 --> 00:21:23.750 up. 00:21:24.415 --> 00:21:27.295 both very remote friendly, but different people. 00:21:27.665 --> 00:21:32.205 Yeah, no, in, in, uh, in a California accent. 00:21:32.295 --> 00:21:34.415 No, but he said, you know, I don't want that to happen. 00:21:34.445

--> 00:21:38.556 And so we figured out like, okay, what could we do before we ever laid off a person? 00:21:38.566 --> 00:21:40.155 Like executive team can take pay cuts. 00:21:40.155 --> 00:21:41.816 We can do optional furloughs. 00:21:41.836 --> 00:21:43.135 Like these are all the things we can do. 00:21:43.695 --> 00:21:48.066 If these things happen, I remember it was like this huge spreadsheet we had made with every possible thing. 00:21:48.395 --> 00:21:49.655 And then the opposite happened. 00:21:49.895 --> 00:21:52.175 So as you mentioned, like, businesses go online. 00:21:52.185 --> 00:21:54.316 We didn't know if that would happen, but it did. 00:21:54.545 --> 00:21:58.445 And our company completely blew up during that time for the positive. 00:21:58.455 --> 00:22:03.586 Like, if you watch a hockey stick, like, you know, up and to the right, that was happening, way more than we expected. 00:22:03.586 --> 00:22:06.005 And so, we ended up hiring a ton. 00:22:06.015 --> 00:22:16.610 We grew from Gosh, maybe we were maybe 150 or 200 people, um, growing into 200 people, like, at the time that the pandemic started, and we're 400 a year 00:22:16.915 --> 00:22:17.556 Wow. 00:22:17.596 --> 00:22:18.125 Doubled. 00:22:18.145 --> 00:22:22.925 So what was the biggest challenge like when you saw that growth from a remote work perspective? 00:22:22.925 --> 00:22:26.125 What was, what do you remember being like the really big challenge? 00:22:26.520 --> 00:22:28.410 Yeah, I think a couple of challenges. 00:22:28.410 --> 00:22:29.600 One is compensation. 00:22:29.900 --> 00:22:30.681 It's a hot topic. 00:22:30.691 --> 00:22:31.650 It always has been. 00:22:31.730 --> 00:22:37.030 And the idea of, like, people perceiving of, hey, I should get the pay the same no matter where I live because. 00:22:37.355 --> 00:22:38.165 That's what I'm worth. 00:22:38.175 --> 00:22:53.566 Without acknowledging maybe some of the other dynamics at play of how, you know, benefits have to work in different places, or how laws work for parental, parent family leave, those kinds of things and the complexity and nuance of just Navigating all of that. 00:22:53.576 --> 00:22:54.645 So that was one big piece. 00:22:54.665 --> 00:22:59.316 I think the other big piece is some leaders that we had hired to help us really scale. 00:22:59.525 --> 00:23:04.635 We're not as big fans of remote work as the founding team and myself were. 00:23:04.836 --> 00:23:08.165 And so some teams felt like for my team, I want them in an office. 00:23:08.445 --> 00:23:11.885 And so we actually did have to make some shifts and changes towards that. 00:23:12.096 --> 00:23:19.150 And where we had to figure out like, well, what is the way we can be really true to ourselves and figure out like, When does a job actually require and benefit from an office space? 00:23:19.201 --> 00:23:20.910 And when do we want to leave the freedom and flexibility? 00:23:20.910 --> 00:23:24.740 And like, let's default to freedom

and flexibility, but acknowledge when we need something different. 00:23:24.750 --> 00:23:30.780 So, for me, those are probably the two hardest things because they're all about nuance and complexity and completely different perspectives. 00:23:31.326 --> 00:23:33.425 We'll be right back after these words. 00:23:34.535 --> 00:23:36.455 2020 was no joke. 00:23:37.135 --> 00:23:39.385 It changed the game for everyone. 00:23:40.235 --> 00:23:44.405 Workplace flexibility is no longer a perk, but an expectation. 00:23:45.275 --> 00:23:50.915 In fact, a recent study showed that a flexible schedule is more important than salary. 00:23:51.576 --> 00:23:53.285 Yeah, you heard that right? 00:23:53.816 --> 00:23:56.445 Employees want choices over cash. 00:23:58.015 --> 00:24:07.465 If you're a startup or a small business that doesn't have a remote work strategy, stop what you're doing right now and complete our free tree assessment at blendmeinc. 00:24:07.965 --> 00:24:08.355 com. 00:24:09.045 --> 00:24:11.570 Since 2013, BlendMe Inc. 00:24:11.790 --> 00:24:15.691 Has been helping small businesses improve the remote employee experience. 00:24:16.431 --> 00:24:18.900 Let's stay local, but compete global. 00:24:19.550 --> 00:24:21.050 Visit us at blendmeinc. 00:24:21.380 --> 00:24:21.760 com. 00:24:22.330 --> 00:24:23.971 That's blendmeinc. 00:24:24.050 --> 00:24:24.451 com. 00:24:30.780 --> 00:24:34.160 Ever wonder how certain ads catch your attention or get stuck in your head? 00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:38.230 It's because the person voicing it knows how to tell the story. 00:24:39.490 --> 00:24:42.480 Maybe they're telling you to stumble over to Sullivan St. 00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:48.701 Patrick's day for green beers, Irish car bombs, and con beef all freaking day. 00:24:49.975 --> 00:24:53.515 Don't miss the deal of a lifetime this President's Day at Callahan Ford. 00:24:53.745 --> 00:24:56.475 Savings like these should be unconstitutional. 00:24:57.025 --> 00:25:00.336 Or maybe Come wash away your troubles here at Cooters Car Wash. 00:25:00.645 --> 00:25:03.865 We ain't no soap opry, but you'll be singing high praises. 00:25:04.005 --> 00:25:10.885 Hoo wee, Cooters! Or, here at Brooks Brothers Mortuary, we put the fun in funeral. 00:25:11.375 --> 00:25:13.945 Everyone is just dying to join us. 00:25:14.410 --> 00:25:17.520 Alright, well that's a bit much, but for you, I'll do it. 00:25:17.780 --> 00:25:23.550 I'm Rick Haney, and if you're a business owner looking for a creative voice in your marketing, look no further. 00:25:24.030 --> 00:25:26.191 I'll tell your story the way you want it told. 00:25:26.910 --> 00:25:31.630 Follow along at Remotely We Are One, or visit my website at rickhaney. 00:25:32.050 --> 00:25:33.400 me for more information. 00:25:37.250 --> 00:25:38.550 And now, back to the show. 00:25:38.900 --> 00:25:57.284 Well, you know, in the realm of upper echelon managers and leaders, a few days ago, you posted something about goal sharing and,

forgive me if I botched this, but it was something along the lines of, it's great to share your goals, but share them with somebody who you perceive as. 00:25:57.538 --> 00:25:59.278 Um, higher status. 00:25:59.758 --> 00:25:59.768 Mm 00:25:59.917 --> 00:26:01.187 that's what it was, higher status. 00:26:01.617 --> 00:26:05.407 Can you just talk a little bit about why you feel that is beneficial? 00:26:06.107 --> 00:26:11.018 Yeah, so I never thought of it actually until I read the literature and the science on it. 00:26:11.077 --> 00:26:15.707 So essentially, you know, people will say, I really began behavioral economics as a side note. 00:26:15.707 --> 00:26:20.417 Like my favorite books are those, and I could give a little plug really quick for a book that people should read if this topic is of interest. 00:26:20.697 --> 00:26:24.237 It's called how to change by Katie Milkman, K A T Y Milkman. 00:26:24.528 --> 00:26:28.817 Basically this notion of there are different things that people do or don't do that. 00:26:29.427 --> 00:26:31.798 If they want to make a change, you know, sometimes you fail at your change. 00:26:31.798 --> 00:26:32.607 Sometimes you don't. 00:26:32.778 --> 00:26:34.677 What are the things that actually cause you to succeed? 00:26:34.927 --> 00:26:45.497 And one of the things that's very common knowledge is if you tell somebody a goal you have, there's like accountability built in and a fear of perceived failure or shame or not being liked or respected for doing the thing you said you were going to do. 00:26:45.497 --> 00:26:47.057 So people are more likely to do it. 00:26:47.477 --> 00:26:56.268 But also that concept is way less effective when you don't fear that the other person could judge you because you kind of see yourselves as equals or even better than. 00:26:56.528 --> 00:26:57.778 So just telling a friend. 00:26:58.427 --> 00:27:03.038 Who's going to support you no matter what may not feel like you have to actually stick to your goal. 00:27:03.207 --> 00:27:07.845 But if you tell someone who you perceive as Like, I really revere this person. 00:27:07.845 --> 00:27:08.835 I admire them. 00:27:08.934 --> 00:27:13.914 you're Kind of afraid to let that person down because you don't want them to look down upon you while you still look up on them. 00:27:13.964 --> 00:27:16.504 It widens the divide between the two of you. 00:27:16.804 --> 00:27:24.317 And so, it's like this way of, it's a little bit fear, but like a healthy amount of fear and anxiety to get you to kind of stick with what you want to do. 00:27:24.317 --> 00:27:27.432 So telling a manager, for example, about a goal versus telling a friend. 00:27:27.432 --> 00:27:34.481 Wow, it's so fascinating to think like, you know, you're not only challenging yourself, but you're also keeping yourself in check. 00:27:34.932 --> 00:27:35.341 You know, 00:27:35.431 --> 00:27:35.451 Yeah. 00:27:35.876 --> 00:27:36.976 Accountability groups. 00:27:37.101 --> 00:27:38.408 Accountability, exactly. 00:27:38.918 --> 00:27:54.578 Mmm, I think she picked that up from higher education because every PhD has an accountability partner when you're having to write your dissertation My dog my dog, oh my gosh, 00:27:54.644 --> 00:27:55.439 heh, 00:27:55.788 --> 00:27:56.348 so 00:27:57.031 --> 00:27:58.622 heh, heh. 00:27:59.293 --> 00:28:05.588 Heather, I, so just kind of recapping you, you started off in this higher ed space. 00:28:05.938 --> 00:28:07.588 You're learning about these things. 00:28:07.598 --> 00:28:11.678 You're learning about how Greek life impacts careers and women. 00:28:11.803 --> 00:28:15.339 You start helping other faculty be better teachers. 00:28:15.339 --> 00:28:17.490 Then you get into the startup space. 00:28:17.490 --> 00:28:30.089 You start learning about HR and people are ops and you become a people ops person, then you get the job at Webflow, you're in the startup world, like you are startup people operations at this point. 00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:39.659 Now, after Webflow, after you scale a company from 200 people to 400 people, you move on to venture capital. 00:28:40.529 --> 00:28:41.029 Right? 00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:44.299 The other side of the startup space. 00:28:44.505 --> 00:28:51.793 And with all of the challenges of, you know, VCs, money drying up and all that stuff. 00:28:51.989 --> 00:28:58.239 Can you tell me what makes SignalFire unique as a venture capital firm? 00:28:58.495 --> 00:29:02.985 And how does your role actually support the organization specifically? 00:29:03.126 --> 00:29:04.381 That's a great question. 00:29:04.662 --> 00:29:04.752 You know. 00:29:05.001 --> 00:29:11.791 There's a lot of great VCs out there but I chose single buyer because of how it's differentiated because I really believe in our approach. 00:29:12.101 --> 00:29:20.511 And like simply put, think of it as like data, technology, people, most venture capital firms are people, right? 00:29:20.511 --> 00:29:30.131 Like they have people who purport all these thoughts and ideas and, you know, theories about how they want to invest and they go out and they invest in those companies that match that, that theory. 00:29:30.131 --> 00:29:31.781 But a lot of it's based on just like. 00:29:32.416 --> 00:29:38.446 Their belief in themselves and their ability to think thoroughly single fire is really different because we think data is the answer. 00:29:38.456 --> 00:29:49.616 Like, how ironic is it that venture capital firms are investing in startups that are like data platforms and they're asking for all these metrics and data on their growth story, but they're not holding themselves to like that same standard. 00:29:49.616 --> 00:29:51.817 They're not using the technology that they're even investing in. 00:29:52.166 --> 00:29:58.336 So single fire was actually founded first of the technology product called beacon before we even raised our first fund. 00:29:58.951 --> 00:30:13.801 And so this product basically

crunches millions and millions of data points across the Internet on people, on companies to help us figure out who do we want to invest in, who do you want to hire for those companies, and how can we help those companies find the best customers and kind of, grow their business. 00:30:13.991 --> 00:30:21.791 And so we believe in using that data and that technology product that we've kind of put together, but pairing it with recognizing it's not just about tools and products because we still need human in the loop. 00:30:22.041 --> 00:30:24.231 Like what, who are the humans that we can really bring into the mix? 00:30:24.692 --> 00:30:28.881 So part of why I joined is there's amazing people already at SignalFire and it keeps growing. 00:30:29.111 --> 00:30:31.781 My manager is a man named Jim Stoneham who's outstanding. 00:30:31.781 --> 00:30:34.741 Before he joined SignalFire, he was the CMO at Stripe. 00:30:34.841 --> 00:30:35.791 You might have heard of that one. 00:30:36.061 --> 00:30:38.501 And before that he was the CMO at New Relic. 00:30:38.826 --> 00:30:44.926 And he joined New Relic because he was a founder himself, and he was acquired by New Relic with his team. 00:30:44.976 --> 00:30:50.807 He's a two time founder really impressive kinds of people that are, that's who's advising our teams on marketing and go to market. 00:30:51.116 --> 00:30:54.886 We've got Tani Nazario Brands, yeah, she was a CHR at Netflix. 00:30:55.136 --> 00:30:59.626 So like, you say I have an impressive resume, and I'm like, oh no, I'm like small potatoes compared to these folks. 00:31:00.726 --> 00:31:01.846 I wouldn't say that. 00:31:01.846 --> 00:31:04.656 Wow. 00:31:04.761 --> 00:31:07.331 change and strategy and growing their leadership capabilities. 00:31:07.331 --> 00:31:09.231 Like, these are the people that work there. 00:31:09.432 --> 00:31:12.721 So you take the data platform and like the product piece and the people. 00:31:12.971 --> 00:31:15.551 And it's just like, you know, force multiplication. 00:31:15.811 --> 00:31:17.182 It really helps everyone succeed. 00:31:17.182 --> 00:31:25.731 And so we helped the earliest stage founders really figure out how to be very successful in the long run and they really believe in helping like our VC is. 00:31:26.162 --> 00:31:33.111 A much bigger as a percentage of the whole size people in like advisory type roles, portfolio success roles is what we call them compared to just investors. 00:31:33.331 --> 00:31:34.682 Excuse me, Portfolio what? 00:31:35.021 --> 00:31:35.682 Success. 00:31:35.861 --> 00:31:37.511 Our team is called Portfolio Success. 00:31:37.571 --> 00:31:43.031 If you think of it like a CSM model, sort of, like, if you think of a startup, like, they're here to help you really be successful once you're in. 00:31:43.261 --> 00:31:44.831 And so that's what I see my role as being. 00:31:44.851 --> 00:31:53.569 It's just a place where I feel like the work and the impact that our team can have is truly valued both by the founders and by the company, which is, is 00:31:53.861 --> 00:31:54.141 Wow. 00:31:54.141 --> 00:32:06.765 So basically, just real quick, it's like Not only are you a VC, but you're also a network of professionals that will actually provide data with your software to all of your portfolio companies. 00:32:07.145 --> 00:32:12.155 And you also provide them with services that will make them more successful. 00:32:12.155 --> 00:32:16.185 Like what you talked about, you know, people ops and marketing, all these people. 00:32:16.185 --> 00:32:22.505 So you're almost like a network and they're able to utilize all of the resources that you have. 00:32:22.556 --> 00:32:23.685 You're not just like a VC. 00:32:23.685 --> 00:32:24.545 That's like, here's the money. 00:32:24.545 --> 00:32:26.235 And we want our return. 00:32:26.326 --> 00:32:26.715 Right. 00:32:26.915 --> 00:32:27.375 Okay. 00:32:27.554 --> 00:32:30.504 mean when it's hard, like, we don't just stick around when it's going well. 00:32:31.336 --> 00:32:31.836 That's pretty 00:32:31.990 --> 00:32:32.580 Amazing, 00:32:32.765 --> 00:32:33.846 is really interesting. 00:32:34.566 --> 00:32:37.155 So I got to ask this one question, 00:32:37.634 --> 00:32:37.964 Yeah. 00:32:38.651 --> 00:32:39.971 let's see if I can talk my way through it. 00:32:39.971 --> 00:32:45.912 So obviously right now there's a lot of headlines about this massive push to bring people back to the office. 00:32:45.912 --> 00:32:46.291 Right. 00:32:46.551 --> 00:32:47.711 Mm Hmm. 00:32:47.841 --> 00:32:57.179 And it seems to me that all these headlines are pretty much owned and really kind of propagandized by a lot of these big, big companies. 00:32:57.730 --> 00:33:12.924 So, what I'm more curious about is what are startups doing when it comes to working remotely and how do they, how do they kind of avoid the hypersensationalism of all of these headlines that the big companies are driving? 00:33:13.419 --> 00:33:16.259 Yeah, it's ever present, by the way, even for startups. 00:33:16.349 --> 00:33:24.409 I would say if you're looking for a balanced perspective on some bigger companies, Dropbox and Atlassian are two great remote first larger companies. 00:33:24.664 --> 00:33:30.004 Drew Hauston of Dropbox has been like, super outspoken about the problematic nature of the return to office movement. 00:33:30.184 --> 00:33:34.444 And so like, if he's listening, I, cheers, like, that is outstanding work he's doing over there. 00:33:34.544 --> 00:33:42.284 I think overall what I'm seeing is a lot of these companies that are kind of at like, Series A ish now were probably founded in the pandemic. 00:33:42.335 --> 00:33:44.274 So they were founded remote out of. 00:33:45.099 --> 00:33:47.859 Necessity in short, as opposed to out of choice. 00:33:48.079 --> 00:33:52.609 And I think that intentionality and choice, like really deciding, like, this is who we want to be. 00:33:52.629 --> 00:33:54.240 And we think that

this is the best way to work. 00:33:54.559 --> 00:33:58.539 Is a critical piece of the puzzle, or else you're not gonna be successful with remote work. 00:33:58.659 --> 00:34:05.569 And I think all these companies that started in that bubble, in the startup world who are remote maybe didn't get it right and think, well, let's try an office. 00:34:05.569 --> 00:34:06.439 That might be the answer. 00:34:06.449 --> 00:34:11.010 So we're actually seeing a lot of startups also call people back to office or even found themselves that way. 00:34:11.539 --> 00:34:18.970 I also think this, Gen Z group, because we've got a lot of Gen Z founders too, They went to college in the pandemic. 00:34:19.010 --> 00:34:22.030 They didn't get the social ties of being in person with people. 00:34:22.269 --> 00:34:24.139 And a lot of them are craving an office. 00:34:24.139 --> 00:34:29.579 Like I'm, like, working on thinking about plans, of how do you call people back if you're going to do it thoughtfully, what are the ways you're going to do it. 00:34:29.579 --> 00:34:31.820 And they're like, everyone wants to come back. 00:34:31.820 --> 00:34:35.210 They just want to be with other people because they missed a critical social development. 00:34:35.420 --> 00:34:38.269 So it's, I'm a huge fan of remote work. 00:34:38.599 --> 00:34:41.269 But I also can understand some of the reasons for it. 00:34:41.300 --> 00:34:45.384 When the reasons for return to office are the Collaboration happens better. 00:34:45.384 --> 00:34:46.735 That's debunked. 00:34:46.795 --> 00:34:47.465 That is wrong. 00:34:47.684 --> 00:34:50.454 When the reason is like, I don't trust you unless I see you. 00:34:50.485 --> 00:34:52.324 That's just awful management. 00:34:52.534 --> 00:35:00.119 But when the reason is, I'm a young professional and I want to meet other young professionals, and I missed out on some of the opportunity due to the macro world, I can feel that. 00:35:00.170 --> 00:35:07.429 And so I think it's like being really clear on what are your reasons for whatever path you're choosing and then making sure that you have the right plan to do that thing successfully. 00:35:07.739 --> 00:35:12.829 And recognizing the tradeoffs you're making when you choose, remote world, but it's, it's, sorry, we need to choose an in office world. 00:35:13.059 --> 00:35:20.460 But it's interesting to see, like, even though people have been calling people back, the broad macro world has not changed, as in the way that you would expect. 00:35:20.460 --> 00:35:28.029 So if you look at the numbers before the pandemic, it was something like maybe 7 percent or so, 7. 00:35:28.029 --> 00:35:29.319 3, depending on like which study you look at, 7. 00:35:29.369 --> 00:35:29.980 3, 7. 00:35:29.980 --> 00:35:31.389 5 percent of people were remote workers. 00:35:31.884 --> 00:35:38.235 And then in the pandemic at the height, the most it ever went up to was like about 20%, like 17 to 21 percent depending on how you calculate it. 00:35:38.534 --> 00:35:40.384 And now it's back down at like 12. 00:35:40.384 --> 00:35:40.565 7. 00:35:40.835 --> 00:35:42.384 But that's still twice. 00:35:42.494 --> 00:35:44.744 It's like 150 percent of what it was before. 00:35:45.094 --> 00:35:58.894 Um, and so I am personally frustrated by the number of companies that never got it right with remote work, gave up whether their startup or big company gave up and now they're just going back to office again or saying hybrid is the answer, which I think is kind of the worst of both worlds. 00:35:58.914 --> 00:36:12.944 I have a hot take on that from most folks but I still see huge gains for the remote work movement overall, and it's much faster than it would have been like if you watch the numbers from 2000 to 2019, 2020, it went from like three ish percent to like 7%. 00:36:12.974 --> 00:36:21.355 So like, sure, it doubled, like 4 percent of the population over 20 years with all the technological advancements, all the things we're seeing 5 percent just from three years. 00:36:21.585 --> 00:36:30.194 So, like, I still feel a sense of promise and hope about it, but a lot of startups, I just think have been similar to big companies and they follow suit of what big companies are doing. 00:36:30.444 --> 00:36:32.974 And so they kind of just go, yeah, it is hard doing remote work. 00:36:33.559 --> 00:36:34.269 Let's give up. 00:36:34.349 --> 00:36:39.019 And that's hard to see, but I think it's about intentionality and really advising founders to get what's right for them. 00:36:39.465 --> 00:36:42.635 So, that is really interesting. 00:36:42.686 --> 00:36:44.766 I was actually surprised by your answer. 00:36:44.815 --> 00:36:51.735 I would expect that after this experience, a lot of, especially seed startups would be like, no, we don't need an office. 00:36:51.735 --> 00:36:52.375 We're going to save. 00:36:52.385 --> 00:36:54.295 But I absolutely hear what you're saying. 00:36:54.295 --> 00:36:58.985 Like, you know, you're having a lot more younger founders and they want that connection. 00:36:59.456 --> 00:37:06.525 So let me ask you, like, where do you think this Remote work is heading in the VC space. 00:37:06.726 --> 00:37:15.235 Do you feel like VCs are cool with it now, as far as funding, like is the VC industry cool with funding remote startups? 00:37:15.686 --> 00:37:28.286 And then where do you kind of see remote work heading, you know, as some of these startups are progressing to become more mature companies and then going out into the industry, where are you seeing those things kind of colliding? 00:37:28.860 --> 00:37:29.270 Yeah. 00:37:29.270 --> 00:37:30.900 I guess to your first question. 00:37:31.010 --> 00:37:32.400 I don't think there's like a cut and dry. 00:37:32.431 --> 00:37:36.770 I think every individual venture capitalist has its own set of like, biases and preferences in the world. 00:37:36.770 --> 00:37:44.260 But typically desire to be remote or not is not

a deal breaker as much as, You know total addressable market is or something else that's much bigger. 00:37:44.260 --> 00:38:11.290 And so you kind of don't see it come up It's just more of like a this is how we want to be And I've never seen it push a deal one way or the other personally, but that could be the case that it exists I think Where it's like heading if that makes sense is I think every company as they get bigger This is the thing that's never made sense to me in this return to office move in or hybrid if you think about it like At least in my experience, working with teams that have more segmentation is so much harder than less. 00:38:11.490 --> 00:38:14.960 So a company like GitLab 100 percent remote. 00:38:15.440 --> 00:38:17.951 There's one segment, remote worker, like it's very easy. 00:38:17.951 --> 00:38:21.681 You're planning for one population or one set of things, like you're saving on real estate costs. 00:38:21.681 --> 00:38:24.221 It's very clear to me why it works and how you scale it. 00:38:24.770 --> 00:38:32.670 If you're totally in office, what doesn't make sense to me is that most companies start in one physical office, but then they start to branch out and have hubs. 00:38:32.670 --> 00:38:37.130 Most companies are hub and spoke model, like a Google or Facebook or anyone, they've got offices all over the world. 00:38:37.530 --> 00:38:39.811 So if you're working on a team, that's cross functional. 00:38:40.440 --> 00:38:44.081 You're working with distributed team, no matter what. 00:38:44.460 --> 00:38:49.520 And so when they require a job to be in an office, they still have to do remote work, right? 00:38:49.550 --> 00:38:52.590 Because you have a remote connection with whoever it is that you're working with on a project. 00:38:52.840 --> 00:38:55.710 So it's never quite made sense to me to not invest in remote work. 00:38:56.101 --> 00:38:58.760 Like if I were founding a company, I would 100 percent found it. 00:38:59.385 --> 00:39:09.175 Totally remote because hybrid is much harder and in fact, like Webflow and Rainforest as friendly as they were to remote folks, really hard to plan for an office environment and a remote environment. 00:39:09.175 --> 00:39:09.835 It's double the work. 00:39:09.865 --> 00:39:11.025 Everything is double the work. 00:39:11.226 --> 00:39:16.596 And so, to me, it feels so obvious and simple, but of course, I'm probably preaching to the choir here. 00:39:16.875 --> 00:39:17.915 And I just don't understand. 00:39:17.915 --> 00:39:23.855 So I think the technology has been historically the limiter, I think, and being excited about remote work and we have the technology now. 00:39:24.105 --> 00:39:25.306 So how do we. 00:39:25.831 --> 00:39:28.740 Build the best practices for leadership to feel comfortable with it. 00:39:28.891 --> 00:39:33.280 And how do we, like, I think the Drew Houston's were like, trust that our team, we've hired adults. 00:39:33.280 --> 00:39:36.360 Like, that's kind

of what he says in all his quotes, and that they can manage their own lives. 00:39:36.570 --> 00:39:45.641 And so, like, how do we get leadership who is used to the comfort of people coming to them and help them build up the communication ability to be really effective at remote work? 00:39:46.250 --> 00:39:50.510 I think that 5 percent increase that we saw as hangover from the pandemic will continue to grow. 00:39:50.530 --> 00:39:51.740 That is hugely meaningful. 00:39:51.740 --> 00:39:59.811 If you look at the grand scheme of, like, the macro trends and if we're able to raise 5% for the next every 3 years, I think they predict something like. 00:40:00.190 --> 00:40:03.300 22 percent of the population will be remote in 5 or 10 years. 00:40:03.550 --> 00:40:06.170 If that's true, and that's possible, I would be very happy with that. 00:40:06.735 --> 00:40:10.375 You're never going to 100%, you know, so, because it's like hospital workers, restaurant 00:40:10.431 --> 00:40:11.090 right, right. 00:40:11.331 --> 00:40:11.840 right. 00:40:11.936 --> 00:40:12.206 going to be. 00:40:12.436 --> 00:40:12.715 So. 00:40:12.782 --> 00:40:18.992 And then the thing for that you mentioned, you know, for those startups that really want the connection. 00:40:18.992 --> 00:40:25.610 One of the things that we talk about a lot on the show is just admit you just want to hang out with people. 00:40:25.621 --> 00:40:27.630 So design that office experience. 00:40:27.661 --> 00:40:40.190 If you're going to do that, don't make people drive in to sit there on their laptops and work, embrace this idea of people saying, Hey, I just miss my friends or I miss my colleagues and I want to build this professional network. 00:40:40.190 --> 00:40:49.471 Like, so if startups are going to do that, just design like Atlassian, like Dropbox, like, like some of these other companies. 00:40:50.125 --> 00:40:50.766 Yeah. 00:40:50.766 --> 00:40:51.615 Embrace it. 00:40:51.655 --> 00:40:53.175 Don't try to force this. 00:40:53.215 --> 00:40:54.675 Oh, well, you're coming to the office. 00:40:54.686 --> 00:40:59.665 So, you need to go to your cubicle and do that writing that you could have did at your house. 00:40:59.865 --> 00:41:00.715 Maybe even better. 00:41:00.715 --> 00:41:01.665 So, it's it's really 00:41:01.690 --> 00:41:04.380 Yeah, it's expensive to get it right. 00:41:04.400 --> 00:41:07.349 But, one of the things we did at Webflow was these off sites every year. 00:41:07.389 --> 00:41:14.000 So you and I work remote, but every year we'd all come together for a big offset, like a week of intentional programming and thought and connection. 00:41:14.389 --> 00:41:19.210 And you could look forward to those each year so that you made those connections with your teammate and you could go off and like, let that. 00:41:19.255 --> 00:41:24.653 I think it's really important to have that goodness stay with you for some time and then have team off sites between those to kind of keep it going with the subgroups. 00:41:24.653 --> 00:41:27.663 And I think it just takes a lot of work and it's expensive to do it. 00:41:27.663 --> 00:41:31.034 But if you're saving the money on the office, you have the money to do it there instead. 00:41:31.043 --> 00:41:32.293 And it's special for everybody. 00:41:32.293 --> 00:41:35.324 So I think there are lots of strategies and ways to get it right. 00:41:35.364 --> 00:41:37.884 And most people, it, it's not the norm. 00:41:38.123 --> 00:41:39.884 And so it's a little scarier to embark on. 00:41:40.083 --> 00:41:40.333 Yeah. 00:41:40.764 --> 00:41:41.123 Sure. 00:41:41.304 --> 00:41:48.028 I'm hoping that our show remotely one, a key player in the demise of the cube farm, if you will. 00:41:48.063 --> 00:41:48.873 Yes. 00:41:48.943 --> 00:41:50.244 Telling these stories, sir. 00:41:50.244 --> 00:41:51.173 The voice of remote work. 00:41:51.173 --> 00:41:52.703 People have to hear that it can work. 00:41:52.703 --> 00:41:55.123 I mean, she just gave you all these examples. 00:41:56.429 --> 00:41:57.369 my goodness. 00:41:57.782 --> 00:42:05.773 I think also maybe just a note for you all as you're thinking about like this, folks who are of a higher education level tend to be more likely to work remote. 00:42:06.373 --> 00:42:08.862 White men tend to be more likely to be able to work remote. 00:42:09.393 --> 00:42:12.382 There's a lot of trends around pay and pay. 00:42:12.702 --> 00:42:16.222 Obviously, as a result of those things also tends to be higher when you're remote. 00:42:16.232 --> 00:42:20.362 Like, the average salary is something like 20 plus percent higher for remote workers than it is for not. 00:42:20.603 --> 00:42:22.163 And a lot of it's because it's knowledge workers. 00:42:22.172 --> 00:42:24.752 And these are the trends that unfortunately we have in our society of those things. 00:42:25.112 --> 00:42:34.222 But the keeping people in the office and then earning this right to go remote eventually makes it seem like a privilege versus a way of working and that hurts my heart quite a bit. 00:42:34.432 --> 00:42:38.752 And so my hope is that a world where junior jobs can learn on the role. 00:42:39.152 --> 00:42:41.962 Again, all these students who just graduated who are saying, I want to be together people. 00:42:41.972 --> 00:42:43.702 They learned college remote. 00:42:43.762 --> 00:42:45.293 So, like, they're capable of learning remote. 00:42:45.302 --> 00:42:47.722 Like, how do we get them there in the workplace as well? 00:42:47.947 --> 00:42:48.427 Agreed. 00:42:49.157 --> 00:42:49.987 Absolutely. 00:42:50.152 --> 00:42:50.802 so Heather. 00:42:50.960 --> 00:42:57.951 if you would not mind sharing with us a comical or inspiring moment that you may have had while working remotely. 00:42:58.125 --> 00:42:58.706 Mmm, 00:42:58.826 --> 00:42:59.165 many. 00:42:59.945 --> 00:43:00.645 It's been years. 00:43:00.686 --> 00:43:01.235 Okay. 00:43:01.385 --> 00:43:08.485 Well, I would say

that my life is a series of comical and embarrassing moments maybe inspiring, but mostly embarrassing. 00:43:09.255 --> 00:43:21.556 So I was thinking about your podcast and I heard a guest a few weeks back or months back who shared that, oh, gosh, the embarrassing moment for her was that during the pandemic, everyone wore pajamas to work. 00:43:21.556 --> 00:43:22.706 And I can't believe we did that. 00:43:23.155 --> 00:43:23.895 And. 00:43:24.540 --> 00:43:38.951 I sort of chuckled to myself because I wear sweatpants and or athleisure on the bottom half of my outfit 99 percent of the time, like, unless I'm going somewhere right after work, I'm going to wear sweatpants to work every single day because no one sees me from here down. 00:43:38.951 --> 00:43:39.520 So, why not? 00:43:39.581 --> 00:43:47.270 But my embarrassing moment is that I have 2 dogs and sometimes they decide to be guard dogs of the house and bark at things or fight over. 00:43:47.596 --> 00:43:48.425 quick, quickly, 00:43:48.431 --> 00:43:48.690 Oh yeah, 00:43:48.735 --> 00:43:49.476 dogs names. 00:43:49.581 --> 00:43:51.000 Barkley and Remy Martin. 00:43:52.980 --> 00:43:53.871 And what was the other one? 00:43:54.385 --> 00:43:58.085 Remy Martin, also a basketball player, not the alcohol, the basketball player, Remy Martin. 00:43:58.565 --> 00:43:59.135 Yeah, they're both 00:43:59.496 --> 00:43:59.956 true. 00:44:00.790 --> 00:44:02.360 One of these days I'm going to get a Larry 00:44:02.478 --> 00:44:04.021 my gosh, 00:44:04.195 --> 00:44:05.675 I love that. 00:44:06.375 --> 00:44:07.105 Yeah. 00:44:07.665 --> 00:44:09.746 I still think Scotty Puppin is the next name. 00:44:09.915 --> 00:44:10.186 Oh wait, 00:44:10.380 --> 00:44:10.900 I love it. 00:44:10.925 --> 00:44:11.625 in, do you want to meet him? 00:44:11.759 --> 00:44:12.409 Yes! 00:44:15.264 --> 00:44:16.164 This is Charles 00:44:16.474 --> 00:44:21.264 Oh, look at the sweater, yo. 00:44:21.335 --> 00:44:22.815 is his holiday sweater. 00:44:23.224 --> 00:44:24.215 Yeah, it's his little hoodie. 00:44:24.349 --> 00:44:24.920 gosh. 00:44:25.739 --> 00:44:26.219 Yeah, 00:44:26.427 --> 00:44:27.143 Hi Charles. 00:44:27.184 --> 00:44:28.074 Hi, Charles. 00:44:28.154 --> 00:44:28.985 Hi, Charles. 00:44:29.304 --> 00:44:29.844 boy. 00:44:30.215 --> 00:44:30.664 So, 00:44:30.759 --> 00:44:30.960 you. 00:44:32.954 --> 00:44:34.324 and Remy Martin, 00:44:34.523 --> 00:44:36.384 Who just ran outside, yeah. 00:44:36.528 --> 00:44:37.018 Okay. 00:44:37.088 --> 00:44:37.518 Okay. 00:44:37.519 --> 00:44:37.911 Ha ha 00:44:38.009 --> 00:44:41.599 And so my embarrassing story is that sometimes these guys get into trouble. 00:44:41.599 --> 00:44:46.139 You wouldn't imagine it with a face like this, but this boy is capable of manipulating everybody in the world. 00:44:46.429 --> 00:44:50.449 He'll do things like cry at the stairs and you think something's wrong, but then he just wants to play with you. 00:44:50.449 --> 00:44:57.099 So, My embarrassing moment is that one time I was hosting a session, like a learning session for our people leaders in our portfolio. 00:44:57.489 --> 00:45:02.264 And, this woman we brought in to speak was doing a great job speaking, but I'm kind of facilitating throughout. 00:45:02.703 --> 00:45:08.943 And all of a sudden the dogs get into like a fight over this tiny toy that they just want to like lose their minds over. 00:45:09.223 --> 00:45:17.173 So I run out to the side really fast and I'm really good at doing like the, I'll show you here as Charlie jumps down, the slide so you can't see my pants. 00:45:17.213 --> 00:45:18.213 Like you just sort of like. 00:45:19.119 --> 00:45:26.128 The slide to hide the workplace mullet, um, as opposed to standing up, but when your dogs are fighting, you just get up and run. 00:45:26.128 --> 00:45:28.308 And so everyone probably saw my sweat pants on the bottom. 00:45:28.318 --> 00:45:32.128 So that was embarrassing part 1 and then I run over to break up the dogs. 00:45:32.659 --> 00:45:41.608 And I come back and I'm like, out of breath and everyone's waiting for me to speak because I had a tee up the next slide on the presentation, but I was like, running back and I'm so sorry. 00:45:41.909 --> 00:45:42.965 My dogs are in a fight. 00:45:42.965 --> 00:45:44.449 And I like, changed the slide. 00:45:44.668 --> 00:45:47.038 So that was really embarrassing and that was only like, 2 months ago. 00:45:47.038 --> 00:45:48.429 So it's just the most recent example. 00:45:48.429 --> 00:45:51.998 I think each time an embarrassing thing happens, I just erase the 1 from before. 00:45:52.449 --> 00:45:57.168 So they haven't, there haven't been more than that, but you kind of master the slide if you haven't done it before. 00:45:57.463 --> 00:45:58.213 Are you kidding me? 00:45:58.284 --> 00:45:59.824 I have to master the slide right now. 00:45:59.824 --> 00:46:03.973 I mean, we were all sometimes, you know, we're just wearing shorts, you know what I mean? 00:46:04.023 --> 00:46:05.094 Dress, shirts and shorts. 00:46:05.094 --> 00:46:05.514 I totally 00:46:05.688 --> 00:46:06.558 Oh, I should show you. 00:46:06.558 --> 00:46:08.878 I have a pair of sweatpants on that I think you guys would appreciate. 00:46:08.878 --> 00:46:12.498 So, I always, with people I'm close with, I'll share, like, the truth. 00:46:12.498 --> 00:46:14.626 So, if you, if you're, check out my sweatpants. 00:46:14.856 --> 00:46:16.944 Oh, Webflow. 00:46:16.944 --> 00:46:19.049 I get 00:46:19.115 --> 00:46:20.056 a large men's 00:46:20.103 --> 00:46:21.155 Oh, 00:46:21.456 --> 00:46:23.625 and giant, so, uh, yeah. 00:46:23.746 --> 00:46:24.266 I got work. 00:46:24.965 --> 00:46:25.195 Yay! 00:46:26.436 --> 00:46:26.695 Oh 00:46:26.905 --> 00:46:28.036 you're doing my favorite thing. 00:46:28.045 --> 00:46:29.315 You're doing the power clash. 00:46:29.315 --> 00:46:31.956 The power clash is the best way to remote mullet it. 00:46:32.516 --> 00:46:34.925 So it's, you know, business on top, party on the bottom. 00:46:35.145 --> 00:46:36.085 Big time. 00:46:36.516 --> 00:46:37.445 That's awesome. 00:46:37.715 --> 00:46:38.746 Great story. 00:46:38.795 --> 00:46:39.655 Great story. 00:46:39.724 --> 00:46:40.114 Thank you. 00:46:40.134 --> 00:46:40.454 Thank you? 00:46:40.454 --> 00:46:42.674 for turning my embarrassment into a moment of pride. 00:46:43.424 --> 00:46:44.954 Um, 00:46:45.139 --> 00:46:47.744 Ha ha ha Where can our listeners and viewers find you? 00:46:48.036 --> 00:46:49.882 I don't believe in Twitter or X. 00:46:49.882 --> 00:46:51.632 I'm a quitter of that one. 00:46:51.891 --> 00:46:54.032 Um, so you can find me on LinkedIn. 00:46:54.032 --> 00:46:56.891 I think I'm just the normal LinkedIn slash backslash doshay. 00:46:57.250 --> 00:46:57.690 Okay. 00:46:58.137 --> 00:46:58.923 thank you. 00:46:59.473 --> 00:47:03.014 And I'm happy to respond to messages or friend requests and all of that. 00:47:03.034 --> 00:47:04.963 And then look out for me on the single fire blog. 00:47:04.973 --> 00:47:07.653 I'll be posting some stuff this year with some more advice and ideas. 00:47:07.663 --> 00:47:09.784 Oh, and one more, if you're up for it. 00:47:09.873 --> 00:47:13.983 We have a great remote work guide available that is authored by yours truly. 00:47:13.983 --> 00:47:29.824 So, if you're ever looking for how to get remote work right at your company, and you feel like there are opportunities for improvement, and you want to bring something to your company, go to the SignalFire blog, and you can find a very thorough guide on everything from how to do it compliantly, to have interpersonal connections, and more. 00:47:29.824 --> 00:47:33.063 So, check that out if you're looking to make remote work better at your place of work. 00:47:33.233 --> 00:47:33.793 Awesome. 00:47:33.804 --> 00:47:34.893 Thank you so much. 00:47:35.203 --> 00:47:36.264 This was awesome. 00:47:36.273 --> 00:47:36.983 We appreciate it. 00:47:36.983 --> 00:47:38.483 You can come back anytime. 00:47:38.804 --> 00:47:44.983 And next time we're out there in the second Portland, maybe we'll hit you up and say, what's up, but appreciate you. 00:47:45.098 --> 00:47:48.848 I might need to hit you up for some Greek affairs knowledge down the road, so I'll be in 00:47:49.183 --> 00:47:49.873 perfect. 00:47:50.369 --> 00:47:50.938 Awesome. 00:47:51.728 --> 00:47:52.429 Thanks, Heather. 00:47:52.523 --> 00:47:53.163 Talk to you soon. 00:47:53.163 --> 00:47:53.784 Thanks so much.