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Hey everyone, and welcome back to Growing Forward or welcome to Growing Forward.
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As always, I'm your host, Sadie Sunniborn Malachy, a 16-year-old girl from Southern California.
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And I'm so glad that you're here spending a part of your day with me.
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To kick us off, I want you to think back to when you were little.
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Summer vacation felt endless.
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Waiting for your birthday felt like forever.
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Even one school year felt incredibly long.
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But somehow, as we got older, the opposite seems to happen.
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Weeks disappear, months seem to blur together, and before we know it, another year has passed.
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So why does this actually happen?
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Is time moving faster, or is our experience and perception of it changing?
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For today's episode, we're exploring one of the most fascinating questions about the human mind.
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Why time seems to speed up as we grow older, and how memory, attention, novelty, and the way we process experiences shape our perception of time, especially as adolescents.
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To help us explore this, I'm honored to welcome Dr.
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Adrian Behan, the J.
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A.
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Jones Distinguished Professor at Duke University.
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Dr.
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Behan is best known for developing constructural theory.
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But in recent years, he has also proposed a fascinating explanation for why time appears to pass more quickly with age.
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His research connects engineering, physics, and human perception, offering a unique perspective on how our brains experience the passage of time.
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So without further ado, Dr.
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Behan, thank you so much for being here today and welcome to Growing Forward.
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Thank you for the invitation, uh Sadie.
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And I'm uh very, very pleased to be included in your um field of interest.
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I was waving my finger because you mispr mispronounced my last name.
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Um I'm not I'm not from uh south of the border, although I'm also of Latin origin.
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I'm from Romania originally, and the the the name is Beijan.
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But uh that's it.
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Yeah, that's a anyway.
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I'm uh I'm I I'm ready to play ping pong with you, with ideas.
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Um uh not only answers to your questions, but uh I'm I feel free to dance around your ideas with um with uh memories from my side, but also with um observations of the present.
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Um the um did you ask a question uh or how did I get it?
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No, I was just about to jump into it to get to know you a little bit better because I want our listeners to get a better idea of who you are as an individual.
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So to begin, what initially inspired you as an engineer and a physicist to start asking questions about something as personal and psychological as our perception of time?
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Well, uh the answer is actually uh the reason why I'm wearing this uh this t-shirt.
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Uh I I spent uh eight years at MIT for all my degrees.
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Um that was in uh the late 60s and um the first half of the 70s.
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And uh now in retrospect, I uh recognized that the um uh the intellectual um ether in uh on that spot of earth was was quite different.
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Uh people were talking, people were arguing, and people were celebrating ideas non-denominominationally, meaning ideas from everywhere, regarding of nationality or political orientation.
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But the uh this the teaching, sorry, the education I received was um uh about the importance of questioning.
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Yeah, the importance of questioning.
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It's like you go hunting.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Wait, wait, it's like we if you go hunting, you're ready to question why this the branch of that tree moved.
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And if you yeah, and and that's how you discover that there is something worth hunting there.
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Exactly.
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And um, so yes, the um that's the uh the the my background, and uh the um in my career and research uh benefited uh I would say 100% from that.
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Uh because when you go to college, especially graduate school, you end up uh doing uh some research, which means original work, you publish it, uh then you get a job.
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Um, if you're lucky, you get a job in academia.
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Uh and of the uh so-called academics are uh continuing uh the being active in the specialty that they acquired as graduate students.
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Um they do not deviate because uh staying in that channel, the life is easy.
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Um Adrian, just like the common drunk, stepped off the curb, stepped off the curb.
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He has not been run over by by the bus yet because of questioning.
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So um my work is varied.
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And this topic that animated you um about the uh speed of time, the perception of time, has been with me if you read what I
Load full transcript
showed you.
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Um has been with me since I was younger than uh than you.
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Um and in in two two areas, namely first the school.
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I came up with this idea uh when I was in fifth grade, not with the idea, but with a question.
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And then um at about at that time I was also very deeply into basketball, from ball boy to all the age uh age-dictated uh competitions.
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And I observed the same thing: that the days were getting shorter, the games were getting shorter, the exam periods were getting shorter, meaning that uh time flies and you better not screw up uh uh the minute that you spend.
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And later, I mean throughout my career, this sort of impression uh solidified.
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And uh then frankly, I don't know how it happened.
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It was in uh the year before the pandemic.
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Uh-huh.
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Um I don't even know how.
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It was just just a joke.
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Or like a letter a letter to uh to a friend, meaning Adrian.
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I'm talking to myself when I'm uh thinking, and you know what?
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I I I I know why this why this thing happens.
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Yeah.
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Uh and I provided a uh you can call it mechanistic or the facts um explanation for why um this perception changes with age.
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Uh keyword is perception.
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Uh we have uh lots of things, vision, uh hearing, uh touch, all these things.
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Um but in addition, there's the perception of um of the passing of time.
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Yeah.
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And then and then I wrote down my very brief explanation, which is basically one one page with a sketch.
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I know that that is not the way to publish.
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And then I started to to read um some of this uh literature that you mentioned, uh uh psychology, but also physiology.
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Um I was raised in a you know, parents who were educated in the medical profession.
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Um so I I noticed uh words and their friends were uh just like uh what interests you.
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And I said, wait a minute, yeah, this is this is obvious.
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Um and um so obvious I did not really need to to to to check the literature.
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And it has to it has to do with the fact that um uh contrary to the uh common view that time uh uh flows like the uh water down uh the Danube.
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Uh no.
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Time is uh is uh is uh a discontinuous sequence of impressions.
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Uh and this is now the mechanistic, obvious uh picture.
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The impressions, I'm talking about vision now, because that's the most uh that that's the busiest source of impressions.
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The eyes are um are moving very fast for us to observe uh the the movement is called saccad, uh jolts, uh through three, four or five per second.
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Imagine a camera, a camera trying to do that.
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And um and these uh images are pumped up from the retina to the uh to the brain steadily, I mean intermittently, intermittently, but especially when the eyes are open, which is during day daytime.
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And so that is a subject of uh kinematics and physics, which is here's a combination of things, yeah.
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Yeah, here's something that travels from uh meaning a distance from uh eye to uh to uh to brain, that's a distance, it travels with a speed.
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Uh and then um and so yes, uh the combination of those two uh uh numbers results in the time of travel between retina and the brain.
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And then you end up, sorry, then you arrive at the number of such impressions received by the brain when when the eyes are open, and that means um uh during daylight.
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And um we have children, so I've uh looked at uh young uh young uh people uh very very carefully throughout my life.
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The brain, the brain is formed mostly in infancy.
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If you look at the eyes of the child, sorry, you look at the body of the child, the uh the head is uh disproportionately big compared with the body.
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Um yes, the eyes, if you look in the eyes, the eyes are constantly spying on you.
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They're they're they're scanning you, the eyes are jiggling in front of you if you really pay attention.
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Yeah.
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And uh so I said, Adrian, hey, wait a minute.
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The brain, first of all, is not that of an old man, it is that of a uh of a child, number one.
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Exactly.
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Number two, that brain was constructed through uh obviously by feeding and all that, but also impressions in infancy.
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Yeah, and that that brain from infancy is is used to uh receiving uh a lot of impressions during their life.
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A lot of impressions because the uh the the length scale from retina to uh brain is small, meaning the distance, uh and because the speed of transmission is high, because when when you're young the the uh the all the channels are clean.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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So so that means that in infancy the brain receives
is receives many, many impressions.
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And that's the bingo, because if you um fast forward to um not not uh old age, I'm talking about to say the two is when the growth growth growth uh stops, the length uh increased, increased uh uh appreciably.
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Uh and so it's already uh the a sign of uh basically what I experienced during um mathematics exams that uh the time uh should be uh feeling faster.
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Uh-huh.
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Never never mind, I'll get to that in a second.
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The point is uh the uh the the the brain is receiving fewer fewer um fewer uh uh snaps uh snapshots um b because of the growth of the body.
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Okay.
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Beyond that, beyond that of aging, channels uh um experience all sorts of uh damage, uh damage, uh ramification, bifurcation, um I mentioned uh uh uh call it uh rupture, and uh the speed decreases.
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So when you combine um long longer travel with uh with a lower speed, yeah, you end up with reception.
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W with uh a longer interval uh between uh reception by the eye and then reception by the brain.
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And then I come back to uh to my brain, which was formed when I was uh an infant.
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My brain is used to receiving a certain number of such impressions.
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And then as I get older, my brain is talking to me and telling me telling me that um that uh sunset uh arrived too soon.
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I like that.
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That's the message.
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And uh and why why it um by the way, this is how the body uh talks to you all the time.
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Uh-huh.
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When um let's say you try to imagine you live in uh northern Siberia, okay?
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Yeah.
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You uh if you're an animal, you uh of course you feel cold.
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Exactly.
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If you're an animal, uh in order to survive, you discover that your body develops uh a uh heavy fur coat.
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Yep.
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But but first is the feeling, and then is first is the uh is what the body does to uh to counter that kind of feeling.
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Yeah, exactly.
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Same here, or okay, you living there, you're going to buy a uh heavy coat where you go hunting, you hunt a bear for the coat.
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And so clearly the um cause and effect was obvious to me.
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It was the uh explanation from the back of an envelope, and I suppose I had nothing better to do, and and I wrote a paper, paper, uh an article on uh on a fly, on the fly, and I submitted to uh European Review, which
is uh uh Cambridge University Press uh um journal.
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Um uh uh to my uh delight it was accepted right away.
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Wow.
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And uh and I forgot about it.
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And then in uh in one month later, so this was in the spring of uh 2019, uh huh.
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One month later, I got a message from the journal telling me that my article was the most read in the world.
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The most read in the world.
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And they sent me the uh the ranking of the uh most read articles, meaning the number the number of readers.
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The number of readers.
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And the second highest had fewer fewer fewer than half of my uh readers.
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Wow.
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And I said to why so much interest in this uh mundane, mundane impression or common.
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It's like uh uh common sense kind of uh science.
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Exactly.
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Yep.
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And then I I said, you know why, uh Adrian?
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Everybody wants to live longer, you see?
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Yeah, yeah.
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That's the answer.
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Uh everybody wants to live longer.
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Everybody wants to experience things to the same extent that they could when they were younger, even if uh that's another that that's another way of saying it, but everybody's interested in having more time, having more time.
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Exactly.
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And so, yes, and uh and then from one from that to other connections with my own work on predicting design in nature and predicting evolution, all these other things, I said, you know, this is an important um aspect, time an important uh thing to discuss when uh people express uh honestly an interest in uh in evolution and the f and and the future.
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And yes, time is actually personal.
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It has to do with uh Exactly.
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First of all, it's an impression, it is personal, it uh it belongs to the individual.
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Exactly, yeah.
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Not on that, but then I got into just like your name, uh your names.
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I got into the origin of this word uh time.
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Um time time is uh English, but the word came from the Greeks chronos.
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The Greeks are around the Greeks were around uh before other people were around.
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Yeah.
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And and they they had a um because of the Mediterranean, they um they they were they were hearing, they were hearing uh things that were uh spoken before them.
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Uh uh you can imagine, you can easily imagine uh prehistoric uh uh human beings uh uh uh speaking uh with confidence.
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Uh exactly, yeah.
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That that they were uh they were they knew the difference between now and before, between uh new new and old, and uh for uh for now and next, these this kind of dichotomy.
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Yeah.
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Dichotomy.
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And uh uh you know language evolves to become simpler and more efficient.
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Yeah so instead of two words.
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There's been limitations, exactly.
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Two words uh uh it was easier to s speak of time or the uh uh passing of time.
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And then uh metaphors, uh I mentioned uh the uh the river flowing downhill.
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Um metaphors inspire people, especially scientists, to uh to um uh if from my point of view to misrepresent what really goes on.
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Uh uh technology has endowed us with uh Yeah, and we're definitely gonna dive into that more and talking about tech and its impact on all of our perception of time and our uh grasp on what's happening in front of us because it is a big thing.
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Yeah, precise instrument that's called clock time, uh meaning that the clock, sorry, that the time is not personal, time is universal.
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Um and uh I laugh I laugh at that because I ask whoever claims that, I said that uh what the time are you talking about?
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And then the uh the the that person shows me the uh the time on the iPhone.
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And um then I say, well how do you how do you perceive uh the passing of time?
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If not, if not perceiving the change in the digits uh or the position the position of the of the uh um the the tongue uh that moves on the screen, you know, of on the meaning, meaning the hand on the dial.
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Yeah.
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It's it's still the perception of a movement, a change.
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Exactly, exactly.
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And I think that's what we're gonna dive into a little bit deeper about how all of these different things and all of these different interests that you just talk about apply to the adolescent experience and kind of shape the way we go day by day, because they do have a really big impact on how we perceive things, on how we interpret things, and you really kind of giving us that explanation of there are things happening neurologically that are actually making our perception of time change and shift.
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And it all started for you as an interest of just observing individuals, you had your own kids to look at and whatever it may be,
because you were so observant, you noticed these things.
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And as you said, when you published your findings, eventually it got really successful because everybody's trying to wonder how can I make my time last longer here?
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How can I make my perception of what was happening around me last longer?
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And I think for a lot of adolescents, when their time perception and the time that's happening right in front of them seems to be getting shorter, shorter, that can feel really scary and that can put a lot of what-ifs in their head.
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So, especially in adolescence, I kind of want to dive into a different question, but I really appreciate your introduction and kind of getting us on the note of what time perception is, especially through adolescence and our growth and development.
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But because adolescence is filled with so many new experiences, new friendships, major life changes, we're discovering our identity.
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There's so many different components of ourselves that are changing and shifting.
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And a lot of things can happen in that.
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But does this period of novelty and change affect the way that adolescents and young adults experience time compared to adults?
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Or is it just because we're kind of experiencing this change in time perception for the first time that it seems like it has a bigger impact on our lives compared to adults?
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The answer is the latter.
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What you said uh last is the answer.
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Uh when you're adolescent, uh it's it's never like the first time.
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That's the that's the answer to everything that you listed.
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And that that impression stays with you um lifelong.
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The ideas you get in school, the friends you make, the uh the the first boyfriend, the uh uh the the first uh you know uh uh basket you scored, uh all these first, first, firsts.
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Um wins the day.
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And novelty is the uh is the uh the medicine for how to how to slow down your personal time throughout your throughout throughout your life.
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Uh this is why I come back to the uh to the usefulness of yourself and uh questioning the things around you, being aware.
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Not not uh becoming a copycat of yourself, meaning uh always doing things.
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Always changing, always growing, yeah.
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Always changing, and uh but questioning what you do.
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No, not only that, but but questioning what appears in front of you from around the corner, um meaning unexpectedly.
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Yeah, being prepared, things of that nature.
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Uh Yeah, being prepared, being uh ready to shoot, you know, shoot from the hip with with with questions.
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And um because life is in fact uh full of um uh full of such uh uh opportunities.
00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:22.799
Um the paper with this uh message from my publisher that uh everybody wants to live longer in the okay.
00:22:23.039 --> 00:22:26.160
Unfortunately, uh Unfortunately, yeah, that can't happen.
00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:29.359
Uh happened uh right before the pandemic.
00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:33.839
But are there ways, sorry to interrupt, but I kind of want to lean into what you just said.
00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:43.680
Are there ways that we can make our day-to-day life feel more complete and memorable, especially over time as our perception of what's happening in front of us seems like it's getting shorter?
00:22:43.839 --> 00:22:46.640
Are there ways to extend that feeling and make it feel more complete?
00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:47.279
Sure.
00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:48.319
Well, okay, fine.
00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:52.000
I was getting into that, but I'll answer now uh directly.
00:22:52.240 --> 00:23:07.039
Yes, the way to uh to impress yourself, the way that you uh uh effortlessly are being impressed as an adolescent is to is to be open to uh to new things.
00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:35.599
Um and um it's uh this requires um decision making when you are uh an adult, especially in your uh forties, fifties, and sixties, uh the decision a place that you have not visited before, or uh to read a book that's in uh uh of a different genre, or uh to uh to go to the opera for uh the first time in your life, all these things.
00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:52.559
Perhaps your spouse uh uh knows your uh interests, in this case the interest of discovery, and uh and uh he or she learns uh the the the bla the experiences the pleasure of uh discovering.
00:23:52.880 --> 00:24:06.960
Uh and um this is a topic to share with uh frankly, everybody who listens to you, you the podcaster, but uh but but other other uh friends that uh you encounter.
00:24:07.599 --> 00:24:11.599
And so that is the message, which is contrary to what happens.
00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:22.799
I began with uh my education in the MIT, which was uh which is where I learned to uh uh the uh the empowerment that comes from uh free questioning.
00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:31.200
Going back there, if I were to graduate, I did graduate, but uh I did not stick I did not stick to what was printed on my diploma.
00:24:31.519 --> 00:24:34.559
Yeah, no, no, no, this is completely different, as we mentioned.
00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:36.640
This is really part of things.
00:24:38.079 --> 00:24:39.119
Here's a joke.
00:24:39.359 --> 00:24:42.559
Uh I I took my degree seriously.
00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:49.680
Well the uh it's got a p it's got a PhD, which is uh combination of uh Latin and Greek.
00:24:51.039
--> 00:24:52.640
Doctor of philosophy.
00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:55.279
Doctor in Latin means teacher.
00:24:55.599 --> 00:24:56.160
Teacher.
00:24:56.799 --> 00:25:03.279
And uh philosophy philosophia in Greek means the love of wisdom.
00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:10.400
So my title from MIT is uh to be a teacher of the love of wisdom.
00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:12.000
Which you've done perfectly.
00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:16.799
Yeah, well no, wait, but unwittingly, not perfectly, unwittingly I've been doing that.
00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:21.039
And just the other day I asked myself, hey, wait a minute.
00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:24.720
Yes, I I like this title, but what is wisdom?
00:25:25.519 --> 00:25:27.039
Wis what is wisdom?
00:25:27.279 --> 00:25:33.279
And then I found this quote from Goethe, the great uh German poet, Goethe.
00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:38.559
And he said, quote, wisdom lies only in truth.
00:25:39.039 --> 00:25:40.000
Unquote.
00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:46.640
And if truth is not the object of uh inquiry in science, I don't know what it is.
00:25:47.119 --> 00:25:47.599
Yeah, exactly.
00:25:47.920 --> 00:25:50.079
No, truth, actually, search for truth.
00:25:50.319 --> 00:25:54.400
Truth means uh knowledge that's uh reliable, something you can count on.
00:25:54.640 --> 00:25:56.480
You have to find that, yeah.
00:25:56.799 --> 00:25:58.480
As opposed to untruth.
00:25:58.960 --> 00:26:08.559
If you if you if you step on something that looks like a stone when you cross the river, but that stone is actually a piece of garbage, you sink.
00:26:08.960 --> 00:26:09.920
You sink.
00:26:10.319 --> 00:26:16.079
So that's that's the uh okay, funny way of um putting it, yeah.
00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:17.519
Yeah, putting it.
00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:33.599
So yes, it's all about truth, all about truth, and you get to it if you are um unafraid to uh to question the most um uh mundane things, the things that everybody experiences.
00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:34.559
Yeah, exactly.
00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:40.640
And the more they are being experienced by everybody, the less the less they are being questioned.
00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:41.440
Yeah.
00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:52.799
And I think that a lot of these things are happening in the moment right in front of us, questioning and acting on those questions and searching for the truth, or things that are happening straight in front of our eyes.
00:26:53.039 --> 00:27:00.400
But there's also another part of our perception of time that might be from the past and our memory and our intention to influence us around us.
00:27:00.640 --> 00:27:05.920
So, how does memory and attention to influence about our perception of time impact those things?
00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:13.680
And is there a connection between remembering more experiences and feeling like time has passed more slowly, or are they not connected at all?
00:27:14.720 --> 00:27:16.640
Well, I'm not a neurologist.
00:27:16.799 --> 00:27:28.000
I uh uh uh as uh as an engineer, I know that my brain has pretty much the same size, so it's a finite, finite size data center.
00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:28.400
Yeah.
00:27:28.799 --> 00:27:45.440
And uh and uh that means that in order for more of these impressions to uh be stored, the architecture inside this uh finite volume must become more complex, inter more interconnected.
00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:54.720
And um uh barring um uh rupture and or some other accidents that you'll probably study in college.
00:27:54.960 --> 00:28:05.279
Um the uh the way forward is uh yes, people become uh more educated, more knowledgeable, uh more aided by um artifacts.
00:28:05.359 --> 00:28:07.839
So I mentioned the iPhone and some other things.
00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:21.440
Um But I don't I don't think that this uh process of what's called uh aging or uh uh becoming wiser with age does not I don't think it will uh change its uh direction.
00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:30.480
Uh is nothing nothing to brag about because quite frankly, everybody is uh endowed with this kind of progress in life.
00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:43.680
Um and um and uh that's that's another another another fact from uh let's call it common wisdom from the street.
00:28:45.839 --> 00:29:04.000
The important thing is what you brought uh just before this is how how to how to uh entertain yourself with the impression that that that time has stopped or time just experienced was uh memorable enough that it was retained.
00:29:04.319 --> 00:29:09.200
And uh yeah, go go to uh join uh join interesting people.
00:29:09.519 --> 00:29:11.359
Talk to it interesting people.
00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:12.640
Oh exactly.
00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:16.480
Talk to unusual, unusual people.
00:29:17.119 --> 00:29:27.200
Um and um you like if you like sports, watch a game played by your favorite team and scream your heart out when uh when they win.
00:29:27.279 --> 00:29:32.720
Um and I think a lot of that is impacted, especially for adolescents nowadays, by what we're doing online.
00:29:33.119 --> 00:29:50.480
Because a lot of those interactions with different individuals, with maybe sports teams, hobbies, a lot of that extra stimulation that we have is online through social media, through notifications, messaging, whatever it may be, a big part of our lives now is spent on technology.
00:29:50.720 --> 00:30:01.279
So, with living in a world that's constantly filled with scrolling, notifications, and digital stimulation, do you think that technology changes the way that our brains experience the passage of time?
00:30:01.359 --> 00:30:06.160
And how do you think adolescents currently are coping with these big changes that are happening in front of us?
00:30:06.559 --> 00:30:13.759
Well, the um individuals of your age are um are um victimized by uh by what you just described.
00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:16.400
Yeah um the uh is it a negative impact?
00:30:17.359 --> 00:30:28.319
The the young fact that the young is are being targeted by the developers of
this technology for uh for financial gain.
00:30:28.720 --> 00:30:45.279
The way to deal uh sorry, the way to uh uh to get lucky, the way I got lucky, is to is to continue to grow and develop without without access to to uh these to these machines.
00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:52.720
But how can we do that when when we go to school and unfortunately we have to do a bunch of our work on our grades and everybody around us is on it?
00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:53.519
How do we compensate?
00:30:54.160 --> 00:31:03.440
I am uh uh talking to you uh to you, I feel as if uh I've been I've been ready to answer uh all my life.
00:31:03.680 --> 00:31:19.759
Yes, uh I s I start teaching my uh course in thermodynamics uh next Tuesday, and my first message which I'm gonna send to all the students who have registered is the following No devices allowed in a classroom.
00:31:20.079 --> 00:31:25.200
Um take notes by hand, meaning with pencil and paper.
00:31:25.359 --> 00:31:33.200
And then I have a video, Adrian speaking impromptu, meaning uh shooting from the hip from uh from one year ago.
00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:37.119
If you wish I could actually share that three-minute video with you.
00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:39.200
And it goes as follows.
00:31:39.440 --> 00:31:52.960
Um the the uh meaning c against the uh what you're describing, people uh being exposed to this and that and watching and scrolling.
00:31:53.440 --> 00:32:08.559
Um when it comes to education, those who teach uh with uh slides and with videos, I'm talking about the professors, that kind of uh technology makes uh uh makes it easy for easier for the presenter.
00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:13.759
It is yeah, it is it is useless for the receiver.
00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:14.799
Definitely yeah.
00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:26.880
The receiver, the receiver, the student, the pupil uh learns learns engaging that's less from from his own from his own handwriting.
00:32:27.279 --> 00:32:31.839
The receiver runs learns from writing.
00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:35.519
And um I'll give again uh MIT.
00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:50.720
Insignia of MIT has two uh scholars, one uh one with a with a hammer or hammer on an anvil, and the other one with a heavy book in his uh in his hands.
00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:56.319
The dictum is uh mens et manus, meaning um mind and hand.
00:32:56.720 --> 00:32:58.480
It should have been the other way around.
00:32:58.799 --> 00:33:01.039
Hand and mind, yeah.
00:33:01.359 --> 00:33:01.839
And mind.
00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:12.799
And uh anyway, my parents educated in medicine in the in the 1930s, uh told me when I was a kid, uh, you have an exam tomorrow, fine, go to bed.
00:33:12.960 --> 00:33:18.480
Don't study for uh because you took notes by hand and all of that.
00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:24.240
So then you gain the information faster and then you take it all in on a better level that you don't need.
00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:35.359
Sadie, Sadie, Sadie, those notes I took in in class uh represented my own book sized version of the subject.
00:33:35.519 --> 00:33:36.240
My own notes.
00:33:36.559 --> 00:33:40.079
Yeah, it was what you had gained from what the teacher had taught, straightforward.
00:33:40.160 --> 00:33:45.359
Those notes were what's but it came from the teacher through my mind on paper.
00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:46.079
Exactly.
00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:51.599
Including uh my sketches, not the images that were being drawn on the blackboard.
00:33:51.839 --> 00:33:52.640
My sketches.
00:33:53.039 --> 00:33:55.119
Your own things and your interpretations.
00:33:55.759 --> 00:33:58.640
Yeah, and my mother would say, watch my word.
00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:06.240
Tomorrow in class during this one-hour exam, everything will uh come out of you fluently during the exam.
00:34:07.039 --> 00:34:09.679
And so, yes, take notes by hand.
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:36.639
Today in uh the field that you are contemplated for yourself, there are uh publications, I'll send you one, that uh that uh argue with the statistics that what what I knew as a kid in the 1950s um is in fact true, measured, and it it it's the rage now yes, it's about the fact that you need to get away, get away from machine things.
00:34:36.960 --> 00:34:56.159
Yeah, you need to take that break and you have to separate yourself from it because it's gonna be more beneficial in the end, which is I think tying into everything that we're doing today and we're talking about today, because it's gonna be such a significant improvement for your your interactions with individuals, your gathering of knowledge, whatever it may be, it's gonna be very beneficial for you.
00:34:56.320 --> 00:35:12.400
And I'm really, really glad that you kind of left it on that advice and that you gave us that level of just straightforward, hey, taking notes by hand, being involved by hand, not always relying on the screens in front of you, even though they can be a tool, they don't need to be the only tool.
00:35:12.559 --> 00:35:29.360
There's gonna be better things out there, including just using your hand and your mind to really embrace yourself into the field, which is I think what's gonna lead straight to my final question about giving advice to adolescents who might be listening to this and listening to all of this time perception knowledge that you've gained given us today.
00:35:29.519 --> 00:35:42.079
So if you could leave adolescents and young adults with one idea about time and everything that you've put straightforward today, how they experience it and how they should think about it, what would you hope they remember?
00:35:42.880 --> 00:35:50.159
Well, the the audience is, I think, too young to contemplate the way you uh formulated this last question.
00:35:50.400 --> 00:36:19.199
My answer to uh all of them, especially the young, the youngest, comes after the um the topic that uh was the penultimate topic, which is about how to live with uh everything online and um versus uh taking notes by hand, uh being uh
the slave of the uh of the device as opposed to having the um yeah the um the power of the spirit to turn it off.
00:36:19.440 --> 00:36:19.760
Exactly.
00:36:21.679 --> 00:36:33.199
The reason to turn it off, and everybody who listens to this episode, the reason to turn it off is in order to protect your own individuality.
00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:42.639
Yeah, because if you don't do that, then you become one of the basically what's uh purported to be the truth uh all over the globe.
00:36:42.880 --> 00:36:43.599
Yeah, exactly.
00:36:43.920 --> 00:36:45.119
Stay away from that.
00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:53.440
There's only one like you, and you are making the decision to observe some of the facts and then give yourself the freedom to question them.
00:36:55.679 --> 00:36:58.000
That don't just come from being on technology.
00:36:58.159 --> 00:36:58.400
Yeah.
00:36:58.639 --> 00:37:07.360
And then and then if you question them, re you'll you'll remember the the best uh answers which come from you.
00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:09.280
Um yeah, exactly.
00:37:09.519 --> 00:37:14.480
So that exactly that that's that's the uh the way to go forward.
00:37:14.880 --> 00:37:16.000
Um I love it.
00:37:16.239 --> 00:37:20.400
Another way another way, of course, when in doubt, read my books, okay?
00:37:20.719 --> 00:37:21.280
I love that.
00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:37.599
I love your advice about all these things and how we combined how writing by hand and being engaged really does connect to our perception of time and our perception of knowledge and gaining things and the adolescent experience now is widely different than it was a couple of years ago.
00:37:37.760 --> 00:37:45.679
So thank you for giving that perspective and that advice because it's gonna be really crucial to the listeners to take that into their heart and really apply it to their day-to-day.
00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:46.400
So, Dr.
00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:50.000
Adrian, thank you so much for sharing your insights with us today.
00:37:50.239 --> 00:38:01.039
Your work reminds us that even something as ordinary as the passage of time can reveal extraordinary connections between physics, biology, and the human mind.
00:38:01.199 --> 00:38:09.280
So it was really wonderful to hear from you today and giving your perspective on all of these different topics was just so impactful for our listeners.
00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:11.199
So thank you for taking the time to be here.
00:38:12.079 --> 00:38:12.480
Thank you.
00:38:12.639 --> 00:38:13.679
Thank you, Sadie.
00:38:13.760 --> 00:38:22.400
Um uh I am uh deeply grateful that you uh you dug me out of dirt and you brought me to this level of uh of uh of interaction.
00:38:22.639 --> 00:38:28.880
Well, and I uh I owe you a couple of things that uh will might be of interest to your audience.
00:38:29.199 --> 00:38:29.440
Yeah.
00:38:29.760 --> 00:38:30.559
I appreciate it.
00:38:30.639 --> 00:38:38.239
And to everyone listening, if it ever feels like life is speeding by, remember that clocks do not dictate how we experience time.
00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:44.880
It's also shaped by what we notice, what we learn, what we question, and the moments that challenge us to see the world differently.
00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:52.000
Maybe the goal isn't to slow down time, maybe it's to fill it with experiences that are meaningful enough to make it feel full.
00:38:52.239 --> 00:38:55.360
So thank you so much for joining me on another episode of Growing Forward.
00:38:55.440 --> 00:39:04.000
I am so grateful that you spent some of your time here with us today learning about this perception of time and what it has to do with our adolescent experience.
00:39:04.239 --> 00:39:07.760
So until next time, signing off with loads of posity.
00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:10.559
This is your host, Sadie Sun of Born Malachy.