رونوشت کامل S2 E05 VIDEO VERSION: Lorraine K. Lee, Executive Presence Expert, Keynote Speaker, and Author of Unforgettable Presence

00:03:55,460 --> 00:03:57,160 So you've got an opportunity there, 82 00:03:57,160 --> 00:03:59,699 not just worked in a company for X number of years, 83 00:03:59,699 --> 00:04:01,080 and that's wasted time, 84 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:05,539 but to say, and here's what I would do for you 85 00:04:05,539 --> 00:04:08,520 if we're successful in working together as an example. 86 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:09,360 Exactly. 87 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:10,279 And especially with pitches, 88 00:04:10,279 --> 00:04:12,619 if you're pitching a product or an idea, 89 00:04:12,619 --> 00:04:14,559 like to a VC, for example, 90 00:04:14,559 --> 00:04:16,519 they're hearing so many. 91 00:04:16,519 --> 00:04:18,600 So anything you can do to stand out 92 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,200 and not sound the same as everyone else, 93 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:23,760 that's immediately going to wake them up, 94 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:25,320 trying them to think differently, 95 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,399 more positively of what you're about to say. 96 00:04:28,399 --> 00:04:31,760 And so, yeah, the introduction is so, so key. 97 00:04:32,619 --> 00:04:33,459 Amazing. 98 00:04:33,459 --> 00:04:35,820 Already a nugget of wisdom from you, 99 00:04:35,820 --> 00:04:37,119 and we've only just started. 100 00:04:37,119 --> 00:04:40,320 So I want to get into presence, 101 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:42,500 especially, of course, your area of expertise. 102 00:04:42,500 --> 00:04:43,559 But before we do that, 103 00:04:43,559 --> 00:04:47,600 I'd love to just hear a bit about your backstory. 104 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:49,799 How did you get from where you were, 105 00:04:49,799 --> 00:04:51,000 I don't know, teenager, 106 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:56,000 to this hugely influential author, keynote speaker? 107 00:04:58,059 --> 00:04:58,959 Oh, thank you. 108 00:04:58,959 --> 00:05:02,679 So, yeah, my journey was not one that I anticipated, 109 00:05:02,679 --> 00:05:05,200 as I think many journeys are, 110 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:09,600 and was very passionate about journalism in high school, 111 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,480 went to Northwestern to study journalism undergrad. 112 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:13,679 But knew pretty early on, 113 00:05:13,679 --> 00:05:16,100 I didn't want to go into traditional journalism. 114 00:05:16,100 --> 00:05:19,459 I wanted to do something that used my journalism skills, 115 00:05:19,459 --> 00:05:21,579 and I had no idea what that was going to be, right? 116 00:05:21,579 --> 00:05:22,940 By the time I graduated, 117 00:05:22,940 --> 00:05:25,420 reached out to former internship managers, 118 00:05:25,420 --> 00:05:27,179 and found out about this opportunity 119 00:05:27,179 --> 00:05:31,500 at a startup in Silicon Valley, a messaging startup, 120 00:05:31,500 --> 00:05:34,739 and there was a roll open in the marketing department. 121 00:05:34,739 --> 00:05:36,220 And initially, I'm from LA, 122 00:05:36,220 --> 00:05:38,380 so I wanted to move back to LA, 123 00:05:38,380 --> 00:05:40,320 but I had been reading all these articles 124 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:42,720 about how lucrative Silicon Valley was, 125 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:44,179 and how much opportunity there was. 126 00:05:44,179 --> 00:05:45,019 Right. 127 00:05:45,019 --> 00:05:46,500 So I was like, you know what, let me give it a shot. 128 00:05:46,500 --> 00:05:49,739 If I don't like it, I can move back later, 129 00:05:49,739 --> 00:05:53,220 and ended up loving it. 130 00:05:53,220 --> 00:05:57,540 And it really opened my eyes to the tech industry. 131 00:05:57,540 --> 00:05:59,299 But when I joined the workforce, 132 00:05:59,299 --> 00:06:01,500 a lot of tech companies were leaning in 133 00:06:01,500 --> 00:06:03,299 to content and editorial, 134 00:06:03,299 --> 00:06:05,420 and so that was perfect timing for me. 135 00:06:05,420 --> 00:06:08,980 So I was there for a few years, moved over to SlideShare, 136 00:06:08,980 --> 00:06:10,420 if you remember SlideShare, LinkedIn- 137 00:06:10,420 --> 00:06:12,179 I do, yeah. 138 00:06:12,179 --> 00:06:13,339 Yeah, throwback. 139 00:06:13,339 --> 00:06:14,940 So I was at SlideShare for a few years 140 00:06:14,940 --> 00:06:15,899 while LinkedIn owned it, 141 00:06:15,899 --> 00:06:18,500 and LinkedIn was always my dream company to work at. 142 00:06:18,500 --> 00:06:20,179 Moved over to LinkedIn proper. 143 00:06:20,179 --> 00:06:23,019 So in total, I was there for six years. 144 00:06:23,019 --> 00:06:28,019 And then after LinkedIn, moved to a company called Prezi, 145 00:06:28,380 --> 00:06:31,279 the presentation platform, I was the first editor there. 146 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:33,660 And I was there for three years, 147 00:06:33,660 --> 00:06:37,459 and that's really where I got into public speaking 148 00:06:37,459 --> 00:06:40,660 more seriously, because I saw how important it was 149 00:06:40,660 --> 00:06:44,540 to growing a career, to showing up confidently 150 00:06:44,540 --> 00:06:47,940 with authority, then got impacted by the tech layoffs 151 00:06:47,940 --> 00:06:50,700 at the end of 2022. 152 00:06:50,700 --> 00:06:52,859 And that's when I decided to start my own business, 153 00:06:52,859 --> 00:06:54,420 Rise Learning Solutions. 154 00:06:54,420 --> 00:06:56,100 Gave myself a year, said, 155 00:06:56,100 --> 00:06:57,540 you know, let's see what we can make of it, 156 00:06:57,540 --> 00:07:00,100 and just actually in a few days 157 00:07:00,100 --> 00:07:03,179 will be my exact three-year anniversary of incorporating. 158 00:07:03,179 --> 00:07:04,019 So- 159 00:07:04,019 --> 00:07:04,859 Wow, congratulations. 160 00:07:04,859 --> 00:07:06,579 It's been a wild ride, yeah. 161 00:07:06,579 --> 00:07:07,619 Yeah. 162 00:07:07,619 --> 00:07:09,459 Okay, well, I have two questions from what you've just said. 163 00:07:09,459 --> 00:07:13,260 The first one is a very naive question, 164 00:07:13,260 --> 00:07:16,459 but as someone who's never been to Silicon Valley 165

00:07:16,459 --> 00:07:21,459 and only has the perception of what it is in their head, 166 00:07:22,339 --> 00:07:23,779 what's it like? 167 00:07:23,779 --> 00:07:27,059 Is it just like tech companies all next door to each other 168 00:07:27,059 --> 00:07:29,739 and people taking naps at lunchtime on the, 169 00:07:30,739 --> 00:07:32,540 it beds in the office? 170 00:07:32,540 --> 00:07:33,799 I think it was old tech. 171 00:07:33,799 --> 00:07:35,880 I think tech is a little different now, 172 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:37,779 but to your point, we have South Bay, 173 00:07:37,779 --> 00:07:39,859 and then we have San Francisco, 174 00:07:39,859 --> 00:07:41,299 all sort of, you know, people, 175 00:07:41,299 --> 00:07:42,220 when they say Silicon Valley, 176 00:07:42,220 --> 00:07:44,660 I think are kind of incorporating all of that. 177 00:07:44,660 --> 00:07:47,179 A lot of the hub initially was more of that South Bay, 178 00:07:47,179 --> 00:07:48,339 so like Palo Alto, 179 00:07:48,339 --> 00:07:50,579 those are the really big like Facebook office, 180 00:07:50,579 --> 00:07:51,619 Google office, 181 00:07:51,619 --> 00:07:53,980 and then more companies started moving to San Francisco 182 00:07:53,980 --> 00:07:56,059 because it was more of a city and younger people, 183 00:07:56,059 --> 00:07:58,380 they want to go out and socialize more. 184 00:07:58,380 --> 00:08:00,820 So it was very, 185 00:08:02,299 --> 00:08:03,779 just like a special experience. 186 00:08:03,779 --> 00:08:06,459 I think I was part of tech during its height 187 00:08:06,459 --> 00:08:08,739 where you had the best holiday parties 188 00:08:08,739 --> 00:08:12,420 and so many snacks and fun events 189 00:08:12,420 --> 00:08:13,739 and learning opportunities. 190 00:08:13,739 --> 00:08:17,100 And now, you know, things are a little bit tighter. 191 00:08:17,100 --> 00:08:19,380 There's more pressure on tech companies 192 00:08:19,380 --> 00:08:21,380 to be profitable and grow. 193 00:08:21,380 --> 00:08:24,619 And certainly there's definitely a lot of benefits and perks, 194 00:08:24,619 --> 00:08:28,220 but I think there's also a little bit more rigidity 195 00:08:28,220 --> 00:08:31,339 around showing where the world's to. 196 00:08:31,339 --> 00:08:34,460 Yeah, and spending less snacks. 197 00:08:34,460 --> 00:08:37,059 Yeah, we have to bring our own mug to work, 198 00:08:37,059 --> 00:08:39,140 otherwise we can't have coffee. 199 00:08:39,140 --> 00:08:40,059 Really? 200 00:08:40,059 --> 00:08:41,140 Yeah. 201 00:08:41,140 --> 00:08:42,820 Oh, wow, okay. 202 00:08:42,820 --> 00:08:45,460 It's labeled as a sustainability drive, 203 00:08:45,460 --> 00:08:47,140 which is fair enough, I suppose. 204 00:08:47,140 --> 00:08:48,859 So there we go. 205 00:08:48,859 --> 00:08:49,820 Just totally off topic. 206 00:08:49,820 --> 00:08:50,659 I just went to, 207 00:08:50,659 --> 00:08:52,859 I had the privilege of going to LinkedIn office 208 00:08:52,859 --> 00:08:56,700 in the

Empire State Building in November. 209 00:08:56,700 --> 00:08:59,780 How does that compare with the West Coast? 210 00:08:59,780 --> 00:09:02,020 It's still like very tech, 211 00:09:02,020 --> 00:09:03,859 but I feel like, I don't know, 212 00:09:03,859 --> 00:09:04,859 the vibe in South Bay, 213 00:09:04,859 --> 00:09:08,460 maybe because there's like more space a little bit down here. 214 00:09:08,460 --> 00:09:09,859 It feels a little bit, 215 00:09:11,419 --> 00:09:14,140 I think it's a little bit more like fun incorporated 216 00:09:14,140 --> 00:09:15,780 in day to day. 217 00:09:15,780 --> 00:09:16,940 The culture of New York generally, 218 00:09:16,940 --> 00:09:20,179 I feel like is more like go, go, go and more intense. 219 00:09:20,179 --> 00:09:21,020 But I would visit it, 220 00:09:21,020 --> 00:09:23,900 because my team, our boss was headquartered 221 00:09:23,900 --> 00:09:25,580 or still is headquartered there. 222 00:09:25,580 --> 00:09:27,700 So I would go about once a quarter 223 00:09:27,700 --> 00:09:30,099 and it's a beautiful office. 224 00:09:30,099 --> 00:09:31,140 I have food. 225 00:09:31,140 --> 00:09:33,020 Did you get to try some of the food? 226 00:09:33,020 --> 00:09:33,859 No. 227 00:09:33,859 --> 00:09:34,940 The cafeteria, okay. 228 00:09:34,940 --> 00:09:37,179 Next time you're there, yeah, in the cafeteria, 229 00:09:37,179 --> 00:09:39,460 get some lunch, delicious. 230 00:09:39,460 --> 00:09:40,299 Very good. 231 00:09:40,299 --> 00:09:41,539 Now, my other question I had 232 00:09:41,539 --> 00:09:42,979 when you were talking about this. 233 00:09:42,979 --> 00:09:46,219 So you kind of breezed over this career, 234 00:09:46,219 --> 00:09:48,380 LinkedIn and Prezi, 235 00:09:48,380 --> 00:09:53,380 but was there a moment where you realized, 236 00:09:54,500 --> 00:09:55,419 hang on a minute, 237 00:09:55,419 --> 00:09:57,460 there's maybe something wrong 238 00:09:57,460 --> 00:09:59,940 with how others are perceiving me 239 00:09:59,940 --> 00:10:01,700 and how I perceive myself. 240 00:10:01,700 --> 00:10:04,260 And I need to figure this out. 241 00:10:05,219 --> 00:10:08,820 Yeah, that was really the impetus for the book. 242 00:10:08,820 --> 00:10:09,739 In the introduction, 243 00:10:09,739 --> 00:10:12,419 I start off talking about my time at LinkedIn, 244 00:10:12,419 --> 00:10:14,820 which was amazing and I loved it. 245 00:10:14,820 --> 00:10:16,179 And at the same time, 246 00:10:17,299 --> 00:10:20,219 I really wanted to reach that senior leadership level 247 00:10:20,219 --> 00:10:21,380 and I wanted to keep growing 248 00:10:21,380 --> 00:10:23,659 and keep advancing within the company. 249 00:10:23,659 --> 00:10:27,940 But I pretty much got stuck at mid-level, right? 250 00:10:27,940 --> 00:10:30,739 And I cannot figure out why, 251 00:10:30,739 --> 00:10:32,380 because I felt like on paper, 252 00:10:32,380 --> 00:10:33,780 I was doing all the right things. 253 00:10:33,780 --> 00:10:36,900 I

was working hard, people liked me, 254 00:10:36,900 --> 00:10:39,179 worked on high visibility projects. 255 00:10:39,179 --> 00:10:41,780 So like, you know that feed 256 00:10:41,780 --> 00:10:44,179 in the top right-hand corner of your newsfeed, 257 00:10:44,179 --> 00:10:46,219 like I actually moved to Hong Kong for a year 258 00:10:46,219 --> 00:10:48,580 to help launch that and I was writing those stories. 259 00:10:48,580 --> 00:10:52,340 So some really cool, important projects to the company. 260 00:10:52,340 --> 00:10:53,940 But as hard as I push, 261 00:10:53,940 --> 00:10:56,539 I just, I never got that promotion that I wanted. 262 00:10:56,539 --> 00:10:58,619 And it wasn't until after I left, 263 00:10:58,619 --> 00:11:00,859 I had this, I had more time to, 264 00:11:00,859 --> 00:11:03,020 you know, just you get like a fresh perspective, 265 00:11:03,020 --> 00:11:07,179 more time to be more introspective, talk to other people. 266 00:11:07,179 --> 00:11:10,820 And I realized a big part of what I was missing 267 00:11:10,820 --> 00:11:13,940 was presence in terms of how others saw me. 268 00:11:13,940 --> 00:11:17,020 And then a few years, excuse me, not a few years later, 269 00:11:17,020 --> 00:11:19,059 a few months later, I joined Prezi 270 00:11:19,059 --> 00:11:21,539 and then a few months after that, it was COVID. 271 00:11:21,539 --> 00:11:25,099 And then that really expanded my view of what presence was. 272 00:11:25,099 --> 00:11:27,140 It wasn't just how people saw me, 273 00:11:27,140 --> 00:11:30,580 but also am I even being seen in the right places? 274 00:11:30,580 --> 00:11:31,739 So where are they seeing me? 275 00:11:31,739 --> 00:11:34,260 Because now we have a video presence, 276 00:11:34,260 --> 00:11:37,539 LinkedIn presence became even more important. 277 00:11:37,539 --> 00:11:39,900 So that really opened my eyes 278 00:11:39,900 --> 00:11:43,659 and allowed me to really work on that skill 279 00:11:43,659 --> 00:11:46,340 to advance in Prezi and do things differently 280 00:11:46,340 --> 00:11:47,500 than I did at LinkedIn. 281 00:11:49,020 --> 00:11:50,460 So let's get into it a bit then, 282 00:11:50,460 --> 00:11:54,419 because presence could be seen as almost 283 00:11:54,419 --> 00:11:58,460 quite a conceptual idea. 284 00:11:58,460 --> 00:12:00,099 But if there's someone listening to this 285 00:12:00,099 --> 00:12:02,340 and they think, my goodness, 286 00:12:02,340 --> 00:12:05,260 I know exactly how Lorraine felt 287 00:12:05,260 --> 00:12:06,580 because that's where I am. 288 00:12:06,580 --> 00:12:08,419 I am stuck in middle management 289 00:12:08,419 --> 00:12:10,020 and I don't know what to do about it. 290 00:12:10,020 --> 00:12:15,020 How can we be more tangibly affecting our own presence 291 00:12:15,539 --> 00:12:17,260 and the perception of others? 292 00:12:18,099 --> 00:12:19,700 So it's your point, executive, 293 00:12:19,700 --> 00:12:21,940 presence rather is very nebulous. 294 00:12:21,940 --> 00:12:23,820 And it's like, you get feedback, 295 00:12:24,219 --> 00:12:25,179 it's like, I want you to have more presence. 296 00:12:25,179 --> 00:12:27,419 And you're like, okay, what do you mean? 297 00:12:27,419 --> 00:12:30,500 Okay, so the reason I came up 298 00:12:30,500 --> 00:12:31,820 with this different definition 299 00:12:31,820 --> 00:12:33,700 is because we hear the word presence, 300 00:12:33,700 --> 00:12:36,179 we often think of executive presence 301 00:12:36,179 --> 00:12:38,539 and executive presence has a lot 302 00:12:38,539 --> 00:12:41,099 of negative connotations around that. 303 00:12:41,099 --> 00:12:43,539 And it can be a very coded way of telling you 304 00:12:43,539 --> 00:12:45,979 to maybe appear more masculine at work. 305 00:12:45,979 --> 00:12:48,859 I said, there's just a lot that comes with that phrase. 306 00:12:48,859 --> 00:12:51,979 And so what I did is I wanted to be really explicit. 307 00:12:52,140 --> 00:12:55,179 Presence is about how and where you are seen. 308 00:12:55,179 --> 00:12:57,059 And then I wanted presence to be something 309 00:12:57,059 --> 00:12:59,940 that is achievable and something 310 00:12:59,940 --> 00:13:02,900 that is approachable by anyone. 311 00:13:02,900 --> 00:13:05,179 Because executive presence also has this connotation of, 312 00:13:05,179 --> 00:13:07,619 oh, I have to be of a certain level 313 00:13:07,619 --> 00:13:11,460 or it has to be in person in a high stake situation. 314 00:13:11,460 --> 00:13:13,940 And really presence is something that can 315 00:13:13,940 --> 00:13:17,059 and should be worked on at all points of our career. 316 00:13:17,059 --> 00:13:19,700 And so in the book, I talk about, 317 00:13:19,700 --> 00:13:21,460 oh, you can have presence in meetings, 318 00:13:22,299 --> 00:13:23,820 you can have presence when you present, 319 00:13:23,820 --> 00:13:26,739 you can even have presence in a Slack channel 320 00:13:26,739 --> 00:13:28,219 or write your email. 321 00:13:28,219 --> 00:13:30,580 So when you start thinking about it that way, 322 00:13:30,580 --> 00:13:33,020 it becomes a lot more digestible, I think. 323 00:13:33,020 --> 00:13:35,979 And when we start approaching things step by step, 324 00:13:35,979 --> 00:13:39,500 it's not like, oh my gosh, I gotta fix this whole big thing, 325 00:13:39,500 --> 00:13:43,340 whatever presence is, but actually those smaller moments 326 00:13:43,340 --> 00:13:45,900 that are just as important as the big moments, 327 00:13:45,900 --> 00:13:49,059 if not sometimes more important because we have much more, 328 00:13:49,059 --> 00:13:52,059 many more smaller moments that people see. 329 00:13:52,059 --> 00:13:54,739 So that was my hope with redefining it 330 00:13:54,739 --> 00:13:58,059 and repositioning it so that people can feel empowered 331 00:13:58,059 --> 00:13:59,539 and excited to take it on. 332 00:14:00,539 --> 00:14:02,659 So let's get a few examples. 333 00:14:02,659 -->

00:14:03,739 So you mentioned a few things. 334 00:14:03,739 --> 00:14:08,739 Let's start with having presence in meetings. 335 00:14:09,099 --> 00:14:10,500 What do we do? 336 00:14:11,419 --> 00:14:14,299 Meetings are one of the lowest hanging fruits 337 00:14:14,299 --> 00:14:15,979 to stand out and to have presence 338 00:14:15,979 --> 00:14:18,460 because so many of them are so bad. 339 00:14:19,460 --> 00:14:23,539 And so if you just do a little bit above the bare minimum, 340 00:14:23,539 --> 00:14:24,460 people are already gonna be like, 341 00:14:24,460 --> 00:14:27,580 wow, this is so much better than what I was expecting. 342 00:14:27,580 --> 00:14:29,539 So with meetings, there's a lot of different things 343 00:14:29,539 --> 00:14:31,260 that you can do. 344 00:14:31,260 --> 00:14:32,780 When you are leading a meeting, 345 00:14:32,780 --> 00:14:35,260 there's a few key things that I want you 346 00:14:35,260 --> 00:14:37,059 to make sure that you do. 347 00:14:37,059 --> 00:14:39,539 So the first is to have an agenda. 348 00:14:39,539 --> 00:14:42,460 I know it sounds obvious and I'm not saying an agenda 349 00:14:42,460 --> 00:14:45,900 as in, oh, we're gonna talk about X topic, 350 00:14:45,900 --> 00:14:49,020 but I want you to really break it down and be very clear. 351 00:14:49,020 --> 00:14:52,059 We're gonna spend five minutes on this, 352 00:14:52,059 --> 00:14:55,340 10 minutes on this, eight minutes on this. 353 00:14:55,340 --> 00:14:58,380 These are the people who are going to be talking about this. 354 00:14:58,380 --> 00:15:01,260 These are the questions I'm thinking that I need answered. 355 00:15:01,260 --> 00:15:03,419 This is the decision I want to have 356 00:15:03,419 --> 00:15:04,739 by the end of the meeting. 357 00:15:04,739 --> 00:15:07,059 Just really getting down to the nuts and bolts of it 358 00:15:07,059 --> 00:15:10,099 so that everyone can come prepared and they're aligned. 359 00:15:11,099 --> 00:15:12,780 In meetings that are run badly, 360 00:15:13,659 --> 00:15:15,340 you feel kind of like you're productive 361 00:15:15,340 --> 00:15:17,059 and it's like, let's have another meeting 362 00:15:17,059 --> 00:15:19,500 to continue the conversation. 363 00:15:20,580 --> 00:15:23,140 So an agenda is really key. 364 00:15:23,140 --> 00:15:25,700 And then now that a lot of us are distributed 365 00:15:25,700 --> 00:15:29,780 or virtual rules of engagement, also very, very important. 366 00:15:29,780 --> 00:15:32,659 So how do you want people to participate? 367 00:15:32,659 --> 00:15:33,500 I'm an introvert. 368 00:15:33,500 --> 00:15:35,219 So especially for the introverts, 369 00:15:35,219 --> 00:15:37,219 if I'm in a meeting with eight people 370 00:15:37,219 --> 00:15:41,340 and everyone is muting and unmuting and in the chat 371 00:15:41,340 --> 00:15:42,739 and everyone's just all over the place, 372 00:15:42,739 --> 00:15:44,900 I have no idea when I'm supposed to jump in. 373 00:15:45,500 --> 00:15:46,340 I'm very uptight. 374 00:15:46,340 --> 00:15:48,500 I just, I feel nervous and anxious. 375 00:15:48,500 --> 00:15:50,979 And so to be the facilitator who creates structure 376 00:15:50,979 --> 00:15:53,179 and make sure that all voices are heard, 377 00:15:53,179 --> 00:15:54,099 that is presence. 378 00:15:54,099 --> 00:15:56,739 Making sure that you are also including 379 00:15:56,739 --> 00:16:00,539 as many voices as you can and being a good leader. 380 00:16:02,140 --> 00:16:04,979 And so what if you're not the facilitator 381 00:16:04,979 --> 00:16:09,979 and you may be introverted on whatever level of the scale, 382 00:16:10,539 --> 00:16:14,539 but you might also be in the context 383 00:16:14,539 --> 00:16:17,179 of a hierarchical organization as well. 384 00:16:17,179 --> 00:16:21,380 So Mr. or Mrs. Senior person is leading the meeting 385 00:16:21,380 --> 00:16:23,460 and they haven't done the agenda 386 00:16:23,460 --> 00:16:25,460 and you don't know when to speak. 387 00:16:25,460 --> 00:16:28,580 Is there any advice in that situation? 388 00:16:28,580 --> 00:16:30,140 There's a few things you can do. 389 00:16:30,140 --> 00:16:31,659 So if you're more introverted, 390 00:16:31,659 --> 00:16:34,940 having an extroverted buddy is always a nice thing. 391 00:16:34,940 --> 00:16:36,260 It also works if you're remote, 392 00:16:36,260 --> 00:16:38,859 but the rest of the team is in person. 393 00:16:38,859 --> 00:16:40,419 How can you find the counterpart 394 00:16:40,419 --> 00:16:42,940 to help you share your thoughts 395 00:16:42,940 --> 00:16:45,979 and kind of help you find that space to jump in? 396 00:16:45,979 --> 00:16:49,539 If there's no agenda, asking the leader ahead of time 397 00:16:49,539 --> 00:16:52,099 and asking what they wanna talk about 398 00:16:52,099 --> 00:16:54,099 and what they hope your contribution will be 399 00:16:54,099 --> 00:16:57,539 because you wanna show up prepared can be helpful. 400 00:16:57,539 --> 00:17:01,179 And maybe even you volunteer to create it. 401 00:17:01,179 --> 00:17:03,940 And then that's a way of you showing your leadership 402 00:17:03,940 --> 00:17:04,900 and taking initiative 403 00:17:04,900 --> 00:17:08,939 and making the whole meeting better for everyone. 404 00:17:08,939 --> 00:17:12,380 And then the chat is always, I mean, as a leader, 405 00:17:12,380 --> 00:17:14,500 I always encourage leaders to look to the chat 406 00:17:14,500 --> 00:17:16,339 and make sure you're acknowledging it. 407 00:17:16,339 --> 00:17:19,099 I actually find that the chat always has better, 408 00:17:19,099 --> 00:17:21,699 not always, but a lot of the time has better conversation 409 00:17:21,699 --> 00:17:24,060 because people have time to think more thoughtfully 410 00:17:24,060 --> 00:17:26,540 and craft their response versus like on the whim, 411 00:17:26,540 --> 00:17:28,339 this is what comes to mind. 412 00:17:28,339 --> 00:17:32,619 So I encourage introverts as well to use

the chat 413 00:17:33,579 --> 00:17:36,060 and make sure that written communication 414 00:17:36,060 --> 00:17:38,540 is a strength of an introvert, so leverage that. 415 00:17:40,219 --> 00:17:42,459 So specifically with more introverted people 416 00:17:42,459 --> 00:17:44,260 when we talk about presence. 417 00:17:44,260 --> 00:17:45,099 Yeah. 418 00:17:48,939 --> 00:17:51,780 There are ways that they should become 419 00:17:51,780 --> 00:17:56,300 at least on the surface more extroverted. 420 00:17:56,300 --> 00:17:58,219 Is that the thinking? 421 00:17:59,540 --> 00:18:02,219 It's not about being more extroverted or louder, 422 00:18:02,819 --> 00:18:05,459 which I think is the common misconception 423 00:18:05,459 --> 00:18:10,459 and then stresses us out to think we have to. 424 00:18:11,380 --> 00:18:14,380 And it makes us more tired at the end of the day, right? 425 00:18:14,380 --> 00:18:16,339 When you're constantly pretending to be someone you're not. 426 00:18:16,339 --> 00:18:18,979 So I do talk in the book, 427 00:18:18,979 --> 00:18:21,579 give sort of bonus tips to the introverts 428 00:18:21,579 --> 00:18:23,780 because I think there's a lot more of us 429 00:18:23,780 --> 00:18:26,380 than we realize in the workplace. 430 00:18:26,380 --> 00:18:27,579 And I think for an introvert, 431 00:18:27,579 --> 00:18:29,859 it's not about being someone you're not, 432 00:18:29,859 --> 00:18:32,540 but leaning into your introvert strengths. 433 00:18:32,540 --> 00:18:34,099 So as an example, I just said, 434 00:18:35,540 --> 00:18:38,300 introverts are strong writers, use the chat. 435 00:18:38,300 --> 00:18:40,699 Well, you also are probably going to be really great 436 00:18:40,699 --> 00:18:44,020 at summarizing a meeting and making connections 437 00:18:44,020 --> 00:18:47,619 and key points and connecting the dots 438 00:18:47,619 --> 00:18:49,619 across different teams. 439 00:18:49,619 --> 00:18:50,939 You are going to be someone who, yeah, 440 00:18:50,939 --> 00:18:54,819 maybe you're not the life of the party at the happy hour, 441 00:18:54,819 --> 00:18:57,180 but you're great at connecting one-on-one. 442 00:18:57,180 --> 00:19:00,300 So relationships are so key to the workplace. 443 00:19:00,300 --> 00:19:03,060 So keep meeting people and keep talking to people 444 00:19:03,060 --> 00:19:05,219 and getting to know them on a deeper level. 445 00:19:05,219 --> 00:19:07,979 Maybe the extroverts, they're the life of the party, 446 00:19:07,979 --> 00:19:10,939 but maybe it's on a more superficial basis, right? 447 00:19:10,939 --> 00:19:14,619 And then introverts, this is one of my favorites 448 00:19:14,619 --> 00:19:17,219 because I think this is very counterintuitive. 449 00:19:17,219 --> 00:19:21,979 Introverts are really great public speakers and presenters. 450 00:19:21,979 --> 00:19:25,739 And as long as it's in a prepared situation, 451 00:19:25,739 --> 00:19:28,660 introverts can really excel. 452 00:19:28,660 --> 00:19:30,819 So I know speaking on the fly, spontaneous speaking 453 00:19:30,819 --> 00:19:32,339 is a little bit more nerve wracking, 454 00:19:32,339 --> 00:19:36,020 but to have structure, to know what's coming up, 455 00:19:36,020 --> 00:19:37,459 introverts are great at preparing, 456 00:19:37,459 --> 00:19:38,939 again, great at connecting with people. 457 00:19:38,939 --> 00:19:41,060 So they're going to understand their audience. 458 00:19:41,060 --> 00:19:43,099 Those are all things that you can lean into. 459 00:19:43,099 --> 00:19:45,300 Public speaking is still going to get you that visibility 460 00:19:45,300 --> 00:19:46,979 in a controlled way, right? 461 00:19:46,979 --> 00:19:50,140 Whether it's the all hands or presenting at a team meeting. 462 00:19:50,140 --> 00:19:52,699 So understanding what your strengths are 463 00:19:52,699 --> 00:19:53,979 and leaning into those. 464 00:19:54,979 --> 00:19:56,780 So let's talk about presenting a bit then, 465 00:19:56,780 --> 00:19:59,780 because that was another example you gave of presence. 466 00:19:59,780 --> 00:20:00,939 So we've done meetings. 467 00:20:00,939 --> 00:20:05,260 How do we prepare ourselves 468 00:20:05,260 --> 00:20:09,780 or actually execute the best possible presence 469 00:20:09,780 --> 00:20:12,699 that we can in front of an audience? 470 00:20:13,819 --> 00:20:16,380 There's a few different things to think through. 471 00:20:16,380 --> 00:20:19,699 So the first is your video presence, 472 00:20:19,699 --> 00:20:21,540 and this can also apply to meetings. 473 00:20:21,939 --> 00:20:25,380 So a lot of us are virtual now. 474 00:20:25,380 --> 00:20:28,859 So how you show up on camera is really, really key. 475 00:20:28,859 --> 00:20:30,260 So I mentioned, Danny, when we logged on, 476 00:20:30,260 --> 00:20:32,140 I was like, oh, I love your setup, right? 477 00:20:32,140 --> 00:20:33,699 You look professional to me. 478 00:20:33,699 --> 00:20:35,660 You look approachable. 479 00:20:35,660 --> 00:20:39,020 Like all these things and the impression that I form 480 00:20:39,020 --> 00:20:42,979 can happen through the way that you've curated your space 481 00:20:42,979 --> 00:20:45,219 and how you're showing up on camera, right? 482 00:20:45,219 --> 00:20:48,380 It's not just like your head zoomed up super close. 483 00:20:48,380 --> 00:20:49,979 You're making eye contact with me. 484 00:20:49,979 --> 00:20:51,260 I can see some of your body. 485 00:20:51,939 --> 00:20:54,699 It feels more like a natural in-person interaction. 486 00:20:54,699 --> 00:20:56,540 That's really important, right? 487 00:20:56,540 --> 00:20:58,939 Like people, I still think people are, 488 00:20:58,939 --> 00:21:02,020 sometimes see video presence as a throwaway moment. 489 00:21:02,020 --> 00:21:07,020 And I still think of crazy angles and dark rooms. 490 00:21:07,140 --> 00:21:09,579 And we would think we would have it figured out by now, 491 00:21:09,579 --> 00:21:10,660 but we don't.

492 00:21:10,660 --> 00:21:14,020 So how people see you, like that quick, 493 00:21:14,020 --> 00:21:16,180 one 10th of a millisecond or however short it is, 494 00:21:16,180 --> 00:21:18,780 like they are judging you, right? 495 00:21:18,780 --> 00:21:20,699 Based on your video presence. 496 00:21:21,099 --> 00:21:24,579 And then after that, you start thinking about the content. 497 00:21:24,579 --> 00:21:25,859 You start thinking about the audience. 498 00:21:25,859 --> 00:21:27,900 So one of the frameworks I really like 499 00:21:27,900 --> 00:21:30,380 that my mentor, Spencer Waldron, 500 00:21:30,380 --> 00:21:33,099 shared with me is the think-do-feel matrix. 501 00:21:33,099 --> 00:21:36,140 So mapping out how does your audience currently think 502 00:21:36,140 --> 00:21:38,619 about the topic you're about to share? 503 00:21:38,619 --> 00:21:40,859 What are they doing in regards to that topic? 504 00:21:40,859 --> 00:21:42,660 How do they feel about it? 505 00:21:42,660 --> 00:21:45,420 Now, when I make the presentation, 506 00:21:45,420 --> 00:21:48,260 how do I want them to think differently, 507 00:21:48,459 --> 00:21:50,500 feel differently afterwards? 508 00:21:50,500 --> 00:21:53,979 Going through that very small exercise, thought exercise, 509 00:21:53,979 --> 00:21:57,540 can be really eye-opening to understand, 510 00:21:58,380 --> 00:22:01,140 okay, let me take out this content. 511 00:22:01,140 --> 00:22:02,380 Yeah, let me take this out. 512 00:22:02,380 --> 00:22:03,660 They're not gonna care about this. 513 00:22:03,660 --> 00:22:06,579 Like, let me focus on only the important things 514 00:22:06,579 --> 00:22:08,339 because when we work on a project, 515 00:22:08,339 --> 00:22:09,540 everything's important to us 516 00:22:09,540 --> 00:22:11,380 and we're excited about everything. 517 00:22:11,380 --> 00:22:13,579 You really have to understand the audience 518 00:22:13,579 --> 00:22:15,579 to know how to make the presentation 519 00:22:15,579 --> 00:22:17,900 as targeted as possible for them. 520 00:22:18,540 --> 00:22:20,859 And then, of course, there's a delivery as well. 521 00:22:20,859 --> 00:22:24,060 So, you know, using hand gestures, 522 00:22:24,060 --> 00:22:28,500 making sure that you have variety in the three Ps, 523 00:22:28,500 --> 00:22:33,500 pace, pitch, and power and having variety there 524 00:22:34,699 --> 00:22:37,540 and making sure that you're not just speaking monotone, 525 00:22:37,540 --> 00:22:39,420 which is something that happens very often 526 00:22:39,420 --> 00:22:42,099 in meetings as well and presentations. 527 00:22:42,099 --> 00:22:43,900 So there's so much you can do, 528 00:22:43,900 --> 00:22:45,739 but again, like step-by-step, right? 529 00:22:45,780 --> 00:22:47,819 You can't do everything at once. 530 00:22:47,819 --> 00:22:52,099 Do you, you do a lot of keynote speaking these days, right? 531 00:22:52,099 --> 00:22:56,260 That's, was that something that you've done 532 00:22:56,260 --> 00:22:58,979 for a long time in terms of you're used to presenting? 533 00:22:58,979 --> 00:23:02,339 Or is that kind of came with that pivot in your career? 534 00:23:03,260 --> 00:23:05,060 It is not something that I've been doing 535 00:23:05,060 --> 00:23:07,219 for super, super long times. 536 00:23:08,099 --> 00:23:10,300 I mentioned I joined a company called Prezi. 537 00:23:11,540 --> 00:23:13,739 About a year into being at Prezi, 538 00:23:14,619 --> 00:23:16,500 I saw my colleague who I mentioned, Spencer, 539 00:23:16,500 --> 00:23:18,380 and I was like, wow, Spencer's really good 540 00:23:18,380 --> 00:23:19,339 at public speaking. 541 00:23:19,339 --> 00:23:23,420 He just appears so confident and authoritative on camera. 542 00:23:23,420 --> 00:23:25,420 This was virtual, right, 2021. 543 00:23:25,420 --> 00:23:28,579 And I was like, wow, I wanna be like that. 544 00:23:28,579 --> 00:23:31,900 And so I had done a little bit video at LinkedIn, 545 00:23:31,900 --> 00:23:33,979 always very, very nervous. 546 00:23:33,979 --> 00:23:35,020 I knew it was important. 547 00:23:35,020 --> 00:23:37,180 I already had an inkling that it was very important. 548 00:23:37,180 --> 00:23:38,380 And now at Prezi, I'm like, okay, 549 00:23:38,380 --> 00:23:41,579 I wanna step into this more senior role. 550 00:23:41,819 --> 00:23:43,900 I wanna aim for that director level. 551 00:23:43,900 --> 00:23:47,339 And so this can be one of the things that gets me there. 552 00:23:47,339 --> 00:23:50,619 And so reach out to Spencer, asked if he would mentor me. 553 00:23:50,619 --> 00:23:52,420 He said, yes, thankfully. 554 00:23:52,420 --> 00:23:55,099 And then because this was the start of 2021, 555 00:23:55,099 --> 00:23:57,459 a lot of virtual events still happening. 556 00:23:57,459 --> 00:24:02,459 So I got to practice a lot and didn't do it 557 00:24:02,619 --> 00:24:06,619 with the intention of it being a career later on. 558 00:24:06,619 --> 00:24:08,420 But saw that, even though I was nervous, 559 00:24:08,420 --> 00:24:11,140 like I still kind of had fun and was improving 560 00:24:11,699 --> 00:24:14,140 and people seemed to, they kept inviting me. 561 00:24:14,140 --> 00:24:15,140 So there was opportunity. 562 00:24:15,140 --> 00:24:17,739 So I'm like, okay, I feel like I'm not horrible at this 563 00:24:17,739 --> 00:24:20,819 if people are seeing me and wanting to invite me again. 564 00:24:21,819 --> 00:24:25,939 And then I made, I remember making money the first time 565 00:24:25,939 --> 00:24:28,540 from a keynote, and that was a very big unlock 566 00:24:28,540 --> 00:24:31,780 the first time you make money outside of your corporate job. 567 00:24:31,780 --> 00:24:34,780 And then the public speaking led to things 568 00:24:34,780 --> 00:24:37,380 like becoming a LinkedIn learning instructor, 569 00:24:37,380 --> 00:24:38,900 being on more podcasts. 570 00:24:38,900 --> 00:24:41,619 And so that's how it grew. 571

00:24:41,619 --> 00:24:43,540 And that's why after the layoff, 572 00:24:43,540 --> 00:24:46,420 I had like enough, just enough momentum where I thought, 573 00:24:46,420 --> 00:24:48,140 okay, let me give this a shot. 574 00:24:49,619 --> 00:24:53,739 And do you do many in-person presentations? 575 00:24:53,739 --> 00:24:55,900 Do some, but not as many. 576 00:24:56,979 --> 00:24:58,900 Do you feel it's quite different 577 00:24:58,900 --> 00:25:01,699 or you just apply the same rules? 578 00:25:02,739 --> 00:25:04,900 I, yeah, it's funny you ask that. 579 00:25:04,900 --> 00:25:08,380 When I did my first in-person, I was so, so nervous. 580 00:25:08,780 --> 00:25:11,420 I didn't know how it was going to translate, 581 00:25:11,420 --> 00:25:15,420 but I realized a lot of the things that I learned virtually 582 00:25:15,420 --> 00:25:17,500 did help me in person. 583 00:25:17,500 --> 00:25:21,140 I feel like honing in on my virtual presence 584 00:25:22,260 --> 00:25:25,020 gave me more energy, like even in everyday life. 585 00:25:25,020 --> 00:25:28,579 I have, I'm much more animated when I speak with my hands. 586 00:25:28,579 --> 00:25:30,219 I just generally have more energy 587 00:25:30,219 --> 00:25:32,099 that came from practicing this skill. 588 00:25:32,099 --> 00:25:35,300 So it did carry over to in-person. 589 00:25:35,300 --> 00:25:37,739 Now, something I noticed about in-person is, 590 00:25:38,099 --> 00:25:38,939 as an introvert, it was so funny. 591 00:25:38,939 --> 00:25:40,300 The first event I did, 592 00:25:40,300 --> 00:25:42,380 I thought it was going to be this quiet room 593 00:25:42,380 --> 00:25:44,459 and it was kind of in the middle of this expo. 594 00:25:44,459 --> 00:25:46,500 And so there was a lot of noise around 595 00:25:46,500 --> 00:25:48,459 and people talking and I was like, 596 00:25:48,459 --> 00:25:50,939 oh my God, just like focus, focus, focus. 597 00:25:51,780 --> 00:25:53,579 So that was hard. 598 00:25:53,579 --> 00:25:56,500 But since then I've had talks where the focus is me 599 00:25:56,500 --> 00:25:59,099 and so that's been great. 600 00:25:59,099 --> 00:26:00,140 But I actually, again, 601 00:26:00,140 --> 00:26:01,939 we're talking about introvert strengths. 602 00:26:01,939 --> 00:26:03,300 I prefer virtual. 603 00:26:03,300 --> 00:26:07,900 I feel like that's where I really can differentiate myself 604 00:26:07,900 --> 00:26:11,579 with not just like the way I present, but also the visuals. 605 00:26:11,579 --> 00:26:13,939 And again, like if we're comparing it to meetings, 606 00:26:13,939 --> 00:26:16,660 the expectation is quite low. 607 00:26:16,660 --> 00:26:20,420 So I feel like I have just really put a lot of time 608 00:26:20,420 --> 00:26:21,979 and thought and consideration into it. 609 00:26:21,979 --> 00:26:24,619 And so people are always like, wow, that's so different. 610 00:26:24,619 --> 00:26:27,339 And so that's what gets me happy and excited. 611 00:26:28,339 --> 00:26:30,380 Yeah, I talk about that a lot. 612 00:26:30,979 --> 00:26:35,459 Pitching, presenting, the bar is so low. 613 00:26:35,459 --> 00:26:37,459 But if you can just do anything, 614 00:26:37,459 --> 00:26:39,939 just a little bit different, a little bit special, 615 00:26:39,939 --> 00:26:42,060 a little bit more than what people normally do, 616 00:26:42,060 --> 00:26:44,739 which is just the same as what everyone else 617 00:26:44,739 --> 00:26:45,900 has always done, 618 00:26:45,900 --> 00:26:48,300 then you've got such a huge differentiator. 619 00:26:48,300 --> 00:26:49,979 Yeah, exactly, exactly. 620 00:26:50,859 --> 00:26:52,979 Now, the question I get a lot, 621 00:26:52,979 --> 00:26:54,660 and I thought you'd be an expert on this, 622 00:26:54,660 --> 00:26:58,339 is when we pitch especially, 623 00:26:58,339 --> 00:27:01,500 when we're in a boardroom environment, 624 00:27:01,500 --> 00:27:05,579 one of the key ways to persuade another individual 625 00:27:05,579 --> 00:27:08,900 is through making an emotional connection with them, 626 00:27:08,900 --> 00:27:11,180 rather than just trying to persuade with facts and figures. 627 00:27:11,180 --> 00:27:13,020 And when we're in a room, 628 00:27:13,020 --> 00:27:17,180 we have some advantages with real eye contact 629 00:27:17,180 --> 00:27:21,099 and touching in terms of handshakes 630 00:27:21,099 --> 00:27:24,780 and movement that is three-dimensional. 631 00:27:25,780 --> 00:27:28,660 Do you have any thoughts on how we can ensure 632 00:27:28,660 --> 00:27:31,060 that we can create that emotional connection 633 00:27:31,060 --> 00:27:33,380 when we're doing things over video? 634 00:27:34,819 --> 00:27:37,859 Eye contact is going to be your first line of defense. 635 00:27:37,859 --> 00:27:40,619 So to your point, like when we meet people in person, 636 00:27:40,619 --> 00:27:43,020 we shake hands and we can make eye contact. 637 00:27:43,020 --> 00:27:45,660 Both things reduce a hormone called oxytocin, 638 00:27:45,660 --> 00:27:48,459 which is also known as a social bonding hormone. 639 00:27:48,459 --> 00:27:49,380 Now, virtually, of course, 640 00:27:49,380 --> 00:27:52,420 we don't have the skin-to-skin contact that releases that. 641 00:27:52,420 --> 00:27:55,339 So eye contact, that's what we're left with. 642 00:27:55,339 --> 00:27:57,619 And so focusing on the eye contact 643 00:27:57,619 --> 00:28:00,459 is going to be really critical to that. 644 00:28:00,459 --> 00:28:02,260 A lot of people you still see 645 00:28:02,260 --> 00:28:04,099 looking off to the side like this. 646 00:28:04,099 --> 00:28:05,020 Oh, I hate that. 647 00:28:05,020 --> 00:28:06,900 And imagine this whole podcast, 648 00:28:06,900 --> 00:28:07,739 I'm just like over here, 649 00:28:07,739 --> 00:28:10,060 and you're like, what is she even looking at? 650 00:28:10,060 --> 00:28:11,619 Or even worse, they're like over here, 651 00:28:11,619 --> 00:28:13,540 but their camera's up here. 652

00:28:13,540 --> 00:28:15,939 And it's like looking at the back of their head 653 00:28:15,939 --> 00:28:17,020 or something ridiculous. 654 00:28:17,020 --> 00:28:17,859 But yeah. 655 00:28:17,859 --> 00:28:18,939 Oh no, there's some crazy setups. 656 00:28:18,939 --> 00:28:23,420 So that one is really helpful. 657 00:28:23,420 --> 00:28:24,699 And then to your point, 658 00:28:24,699 --> 00:28:28,260 like sharing a story right away, 659 00:28:28,260 --> 00:28:30,900 I used to present and again, like, 660 00:28:30,900 --> 00:28:32,180 hi, everyone, I'm Lorraine. 661 00:28:32,180 --> 00:28:33,140 I'm here to talk. 662 00:28:33,140 --> 00:28:36,739 I'm excited to talk about whatever the topic is. 663 00:28:36,739 --> 00:28:40,300 And I was someone who leaned very heavily on like data 664 00:28:40,300 --> 00:28:42,219 and facts and figures. 665 00:28:42,219 --> 00:28:45,339 And then I realized, oh, okay, I've got some coaching too. 666 00:28:45,339 --> 00:28:48,060 Like people can see the title on the slide. 667 00:28:48,099 --> 00:28:49,260 I don't need to reiterate it. 668 00:28:49,260 --> 00:28:50,819 They know why they're here. 669 00:28:50,819 --> 00:28:53,780 Let me just, I don't even introduce myself to start. 670 00:28:53,780 --> 00:28:57,979 I just launch into a story, get their attention, 671 00:28:57,979 --> 00:29:00,180 try to earn their trust sooner. 672 00:29:00,180 --> 00:29:03,060 And then once you've gotten their trust, 673 00:29:03,060 --> 00:29:06,420 then I talk a little bit about myself and give the intro. 674 00:29:06,420 --> 00:29:10,020 So I have found that format to be really powerful. 675 00:29:10,900 --> 00:29:13,020 So you start with a cold open, essentially. 676 00:29:13,020 --> 00:29:14,099 Yeah, yeah. 677 00:29:14,099 --> 00:29:18,540 And do you have a kind of a go-to cold open 678 00:29:18,540 --> 00:29:19,780 that works over and over again? 679 00:29:19,780 --> 00:29:22,619 Or do you try and think of a new story every time? 680 00:29:22,619 --> 00:29:24,099 It depends on the topic. 681 00:29:24,099 --> 00:29:27,099 So when I talk about, 682 00:29:27,099 --> 00:29:30,300 when I give my session on presence and building a brand, 683 00:29:30,300 --> 00:29:33,020 I talk about my LinkedIn story that I shared with you 684 00:29:33,020 --> 00:29:35,900 and sort of that struggle to get to that next level. 685 00:29:35,900 --> 00:29:39,420 When I talk about like meetings before, 686 00:29:39,420 --> 00:29:42,859 I do the like, imagine a world, da, da, da, da, 687 00:29:42,859 --> 00:29:44,459 like, you know, where- 688 00:29:44,459 --> 00:29:46,619 Do it properly, I wanna hear it. 689 00:29:46,619 --> 00:29:50,020 Imagine a world where, you know, 690 00:29:50,020 --> 00:29:54,420 people leave your meeting feeling excited, productive, 691 00:29:54,420 --> 00:29:56,140 you know, helping your audience imagine 692 00:29:56,140 --> 00:29:57,819 what the future state is. 693 00:29:57,819 --> 00:29:59,500 And gosh, who doesn't want

a meeting 694 00:29:59,500 --> 00:30:01,300 where people actually enjoy themselves? 695 00:30:01,300 --> 00:30:02,660 So it gets people hoping like, 696 00:30:02,660 --> 00:30:05,300 oh, I'm gonna learn that in this session. 697 00:30:05,300 --> 00:30:07,180 Okay, I'm gonna stay focused now. 698 00:30:07,180 --> 00:30:10,020 So there's a lot of different ways that you can do it. 699 00:30:10,060 --> 00:30:12,099 But I think starting with like, as you said, 700 00:30:12,099 --> 00:30:14,939 Danny, a code open can really captivate people 701 00:30:14,939 --> 00:30:17,219 because again, they're not expecting it. 702 00:30:17,219 --> 00:30:20,660 Right, and do you get nervous still today? 703 00:30:20,660 --> 00:30:21,859 Well, of course, yeah. 704 00:30:21,859 --> 00:30:24,500 Yeah, yeah, how do you deal with that? 705 00:30:24,500 --> 00:30:26,540 Yeah, Spencer, who I mentioned earlier, 706 00:30:26,540 --> 00:30:29,459 he said this funny line once and he said, 707 00:30:29,459 --> 00:30:31,660 there's two types of speakers in this world, 708 00:30:31,660 --> 00:30:33,739 people who are speakers who get nervous 709 00:30:33,739 --> 00:30:35,540 and speakers who lie about it. 710 00:30:35,540 --> 00:30:36,619 Right. 711 00:30:36,619 --> 00:30:38,339 So, yeah, I mean, the- 712 00:30:38,979 --> 00:30:40,380 Which is a psychopath. 713 00:30:40,380 --> 00:30:41,699 Yes, exactly. 714 00:30:43,339 --> 00:30:45,540 Yeah, so I definitely get nervous, 715 00:30:45,540 --> 00:30:50,020 but it's so much more contained now than how it used to be. 716 00:30:50,020 --> 00:30:55,020 So previously, you know, a lot of sweating and cold hands 717 00:30:55,939 --> 00:30:58,380 and all this happening simultaneously, 718 00:30:58,380 --> 00:31:00,619 which was super weird and just like dry mouth 719 00:31:00,619 --> 00:31:02,060 and all the things. 720 00:31:02,060 --> 00:31:05,420 And so now it's a little nervous, 721 00:31:05,420 --> 00:31:10,060 but like I can hop onto a speaking engagement 722 00:31:10,060 --> 00:31:11,380 pretty quickly after a meeting, 723 00:31:11,380 --> 00:31:13,260 like before I might have needed like an hour 724 00:31:13,260 --> 00:31:15,180 of just time to get in my, 725 00:31:15,180 --> 00:31:16,739 the right head space and all of that. 726 00:31:16,739 --> 00:31:20,380 So for me, what helped before dry mouth 727 00:31:20,380 --> 00:31:22,459 is of course, drinking more water. 728 00:31:22,459 --> 00:31:24,020 I know it sounds obvious, 729 00:31:24,020 --> 00:31:25,579 but especially when you're nervous, 730 00:31:25,579 --> 00:31:27,339 it's hard to do and have those breaks 731 00:31:27,339 --> 00:31:29,459 and to just get that sip of water. 732 00:31:29,459 --> 00:31:31,739 Some people who haven't done it very much, 733 00:31:31,739 --> 00:31:34,380 who are therefore the most nervous people, 734 00:31:34,380 --> 00:31:37,300 don't realize that they're about to get a dry mouth. 735 00:31:37,300 --> 00:31:39,339 So it's not really the most

obvious thing 736 00:31:39,339 --> 00:31:40,859 because they haven't brought a bottle of water 737 00:31:40,859 --> 00:31:42,099 and they're on the stage doing this. 738 00:31:42,099 --> 00:31:43,339 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 739 00:31:43,339 --> 00:31:45,380 You can share it in the microphone, yeah. 740 00:31:46,939 --> 00:31:49,459 Nervous energy, you know, kind of dance it out, 741 00:31:49,459 --> 00:31:51,020 just do something physical. 742 00:31:51,020 --> 00:31:52,420 Dance it out, I like that. 743 00:31:52,420 --> 00:31:54,140 Yeah, do something physical before. 744 00:31:54,140 --> 00:31:56,979 Maybe, you know, some people like to actually work out 745 00:31:56,979 --> 00:31:58,699 before, which is, that's not my thing, 746 00:31:58,699 --> 00:32:01,859 but just do something to shake out the nerve. 747 00:32:02,380 --> 00:32:05,219 You'll see, especially virtually, 748 00:32:05,219 --> 00:32:07,140 like if someone's sitting, if you see nervous energy, 749 00:32:07,140 --> 00:32:09,339 you'll see them kind of swinging in their chair like this 750 00:32:09,339 --> 00:32:12,540 or rocking back and forth in person or virtual. 751 00:32:13,540 --> 00:32:15,060 That's something to watch out for. 752 00:32:15,060 --> 00:32:17,780 That's why it's always good to watch your recordings back, 753 00:32:17,780 --> 00:32:21,500 even though it's very uncomfortable to hear your voice. 754 00:32:21,500 --> 00:32:24,500 And then I think also, 755 00:32:24,500 --> 00:32:26,339 so something Matt Abrahams taught me, 756 00:32:26,339 --> 00:32:29,459 he's a lecturer at Stanford GSB 757 00:32:29,459 --> 00:32:31,300 and also a keynote speaker himself, 758 00:32:31,300 --> 00:32:33,699 communications expert, and interviewed in the book. 759 00:32:33,699 --> 00:32:36,660 He talks about the difference between symptoms and sources. 760 00:32:36,660 --> 00:32:39,099 And so I think that's also a helpful differentiation 761 00:32:39,099 --> 00:32:41,180 where symptoms are going to be 762 00:32:41,180 --> 00:32:42,459 what you're feeling physically, 763 00:32:42,459 --> 00:32:44,060 what you're noticing in yourself. 764 00:32:44,060 --> 00:32:46,420 The sources, well, why am I nervous? 765 00:32:46,420 --> 00:32:47,540 It's more psychological. 766 00:32:47,540 --> 00:32:49,219 Like, is it because I want to be perfect? 767 00:32:49,219 --> 00:32:51,260 Is it because I think the audience is judging me? 768 00:32:51,260 --> 00:32:54,020 And so you can tackle two sides of the coin 769 00:32:54,020 --> 00:32:56,780 to make sure that you're in the best place possible 770 00:32:56,780 --> 00:32:58,819 before you get on stage or get on camera. 771 00:33:00,180 --> 00:33:05,180 What's your worst experience ever in front of an audience, 772 00:33:05,540 --> 00:33:09,780 either in a meeting or presentation? 773 00:33:09,780 --> 00:33:13,020 I went to this speaker bootcamp 774 00:33:14,060 --> 00:33:16,260 last year, two years ago, maybe. 775 00:33:16,260 --> 00:33:19,699 And it was a bunch of very, very seasoned speakers. 776 00:33:19,699 --> 00:33:22,300 And I went to this bootcamp to understand, 777 00:33:22,300 --> 00:33:25,219 do I want to lean into in-person speaking? 778 00:33:25,219 --> 00:33:28,660 Because it's different, you make more money, right? 779 00:33:28,660 --> 00:33:30,739 Than virtual usually. 780 00:33:30,739 --> 00:33:33,300 So you were an attendee or you were teaching there? 781 00:33:33,300 --> 00:33:34,459 I was an attendee. 782 00:33:34,459 --> 00:33:35,500 You were an attendee, okay. 783 00:33:35,500 --> 00:33:37,140 Yeah, so I was an attendee, 784 00:33:37,140 --> 00:33:40,060 but the attendees had a chance to go on stage 785 00:33:40,060 --> 00:33:42,300 and to give a little presentation. 786 00:33:43,219 --> 00:33:46,020 And not only were there a bunch of other 787 00:33:46,020 --> 00:33:47,180 much more experienced, 788 00:33:47,180 --> 00:33:49,300 mostly much more experienced keynote speakers 789 00:33:49,300 --> 00:33:50,380 in the audience, 790 00:33:50,380 --> 00:33:54,380 there were speaker bureau representatives there as well. 791 00:33:54,459 --> 00:33:59,459 And I just got so nervous and in my head. 792 00:33:59,500 --> 00:34:00,859 And as I was talking, 793 00:34:00,859 --> 00:34:05,300 I just completely blanked like in the middle. 794 00:34:05,300 --> 00:34:09,899 And I was like, oh my God, 795 00:34:09,899 --> 00:34:11,739 just completely freaked out. 796 00:34:11,739 --> 00:34:16,739 And I paused and I went back a little bit 797 00:34:17,020 --> 00:34:19,219 and just kept going. 798 00:34:19,219 --> 00:34:21,979 And it was really nice afterwards. 799 00:34:21,979 --> 00:34:22,899 There was like a little panel 800 00:34:22,899 --> 00:34:24,620 sort of giving you feedback afterwards. 801 00:34:24,620 --> 00:34:26,820 And they said, that's like the way to do it 802 00:34:26,820 --> 00:34:28,179 is to not be like, gosh, 803 00:34:28,179 --> 00:34:29,340 or just like get in your head, 804 00:34:29,340 --> 00:34:31,739 but just pause calmly. 805 00:34:31,739 --> 00:34:33,739 And thankfully the words came back to me 806 00:34:34,860 --> 00:34:37,300 and that was mortifying, yeah. 807 00:34:37,300 --> 00:34:40,620 And I was just, it was rough, 808 00:34:40,620 --> 00:34:43,139 but like now I know I got through that. 809 00:34:43,139 --> 00:34:46,179 It's just, it makes you more confident, right? 810 00:34:46,179 --> 00:34:48,459 And the interesting thing is you in your head 811 00:34:48,459 --> 00:34:51,340 to use your word, you were mortified. 812 00:34:51,340 --> 00:34:55,020 But the audience probably barely even noticed 813 00:34:55,020 --> 00:34:56,179 that little slip. 814 00:34:56,179 --> 00:34:57,020 Not, yeah. 815 00:34:57,020 --> 00:34:59,739 Plus, perhaps even more powerful 816 00:34:59,739 --> 00:35:03,020 is they probably warmed to you even more 817 00:35:03,020 --> 00:35:04,419 because they felt that empathy 818 00:35:04,419 --> 00:35:07,179 and no one wants anyone on stage to

fail. 819 00:35:07,179 --> 00:35:10,179 I think it can be quite humanistic, 820 00:35:10,179 --> 00:35:11,620 not to do on purpose ever, 821 00:35:11,620 --> 00:35:15,620 but I bet people liked you more in that audience 822 00:35:15,620 --> 00:35:17,060 watching you do that. 823 00:35:17,060 --> 00:35:18,020 Yeah, it's so funny you said that Danny 824 00:35:18,020 --> 00:35:19,899 because people came up to me after. 825 00:35:19,899 --> 00:35:23,020 They knew it was like maybe only the second 826 00:35:23,020 --> 00:35:25,219 or third time I had been on stage. 827 00:35:25,219 --> 00:35:26,899 And so people were coming up to me after 828 00:35:26,899 --> 00:35:28,939 and they were like, oh my gosh, 829 00:35:28,939 --> 00:35:30,580 like that was so great. 830 00:35:30,580 --> 00:35:32,379 You were like brave enough to go up there 831 00:35:32,379 --> 00:35:33,739 and like you did a great job. 832 00:35:33,739 --> 00:35:35,939 And so, yeah, totally agree with that. 833 00:35:38,340 --> 00:35:40,419 So what about your best? 834 00:35:40,419 --> 00:35:42,419 Do you remember anything you've done 835 00:35:42,419 --> 00:35:46,100 and you're like, that was just the best feeling 836 00:35:46,100 --> 00:35:47,020 in the world? 837 00:35:48,020 --> 00:35:49,340 Because it can be euphoric 838 00:35:49,340 --> 00:35:52,419 when you come out of a talk, can't it? 839 00:35:52,419 --> 00:35:54,020 Anytime I do a virtual session, 840 00:35:54,020 --> 00:35:55,939 I always feel that way after 841 00:35:55,939 --> 00:35:58,219 because you see, I have a feedback, 842 00:35:58,219 --> 00:36:00,100 also in person, but I do more virtual, right? 843 00:36:00,100 --> 00:36:01,860 So like I have a feedback form 844 00:36:01,860 --> 00:36:04,939 and to see people's feedback afterwards 845 00:36:04,939 --> 00:36:07,340 when it's very positive and they say, 846 00:36:07,340 --> 00:36:08,739 this helped me think differently 847 00:36:08,739 --> 00:36:10,699 or I'm excited to try this 848 00:36:10,699 --> 00:36:13,780 or this was one of the best sessions I've seen. 849 00:36:13,780 --> 00:36:16,340 Like, yeah, that feels really good. 850 00:36:16,820 --> 00:36:20,500 And so I think I've, again, like practice makes perfect. 851 00:36:20,500 --> 00:36:22,419 So I've done so many virtual sessions now. 852 00:36:22,419 --> 00:36:24,419 I've really dialed it in 853 00:36:24,419 --> 00:36:28,459 and that's when I always feel at my best. 854 00:36:28,459 --> 00:36:29,500 And like you said, 855 00:36:29,500 --> 00:36:32,500 like a little bit of that adrenaline dump after. 856 00:36:33,659 --> 00:36:35,100 It was funny actually that this reminds me 857 00:36:35,100 --> 00:36:37,979 like when I did some of my first sessions, 858 00:36:37,979 --> 00:36:39,659 I couldn't work the rest of the day 859 00:36:39,659 --> 00:36:42,300 because my body was just so tired. 860 00:36:42,300 --> 00:36:43,699 Now I get back to work, 861 00:36:43,699 --> 00:36:45,139 but yeah, it's been fun 862 00:36:45,179 --> 00:36:46,540 to sort of see that transformation 863 00:36:46,540 --> 00:36:48,899 and to see always the feedback I get 864 00:36:48,899 --> 00:36:50,620 anytime I do a virtual keynote. 865 00:36:51,500 --> 00:36:52,939 I mean, it's something that I talk about as well 866 00:36:52,939 --> 00:36:56,939 is ideally if you're doing a big pitch presentation session, 867 00:36:56,939 --> 00:36:59,620 you shouldn't have anything in your day before it, 868 00:36:59,620 --> 00:37:01,379 any other meetings or anything. 869 00:37:01,379 --> 00:37:03,459 You should treat yourself like a king or a queen 870 00:37:03,459 --> 00:37:06,620 and eat the best food and have a bath if you want 871 00:37:06,620 --> 00:37:08,899 and listen to music, get yourself calm. 872 00:37:08,899 --> 00:37:11,899 And afterwards, ideally you should have nothing as well 873 00:37:11,899 --> 00:37:16,899 because the emotional mental load, 874 00:37:18,179 --> 00:37:20,820 even when you're just saying out loud 875 00:37:20,820 --> 00:37:23,580 what you've practiced a hundred times before, 876 00:37:23,580 --> 00:37:25,260 I don't know whether you know Rory Sutherland, 877 00:37:25,260 --> 00:37:27,939 he's a speaking behavioral scientist. 878 00:37:27,939 --> 00:37:29,939 He told me one of my favorite quotes is 879 00:37:29,939 --> 00:37:32,060 whenever he does a talk on stage, 880 00:37:32,060 --> 00:37:34,500 he immediately goes back to his hotel room 881 00:37:34,500 --> 00:37:36,459 and sits in his pants in the dark. 882 00:37:38,500 --> 00:37:40,820 And in the UK that means his underpants. 883 00:37:42,219 --> 00:37:45,580 I mean, I can see the highlight would be very relaxing. 884 00:37:45,580 --> 00:37:47,820 I've definitely gone back to my room too 885 00:37:47,820 --> 00:37:50,260 for in-person engagements afterwards. 886 00:37:50,260 --> 00:37:53,379 And as an introvert too, it's like double effect 887 00:37:53,379 --> 00:37:56,939 where it's like that recuperation time. 888 00:37:56,939 --> 00:37:58,459 Yeah, absolutely. 889 00:37:58,459 --> 00:38:00,139 Okay, so we talked a lot about presence. 890 00:38:00,139 --> 00:38:04,260 Let's talk a little bit about influence instead. 891 00:38:04,260 --> 00:38:08,060 Tell me your philosophies on influence. 892 00:38:09,060 --> 00:38:12,500 Influence reminds me a little bit about presence too 893 00:38:12,500 --> 00:38:16,540 in the sense of we all want it, how do we get it? 894 00:38:17,979 --> 00:38:18,939 What is it? 895 00:38:18,939 --> 00:38:22,899 And so for me, I came up with a framework in the book, 896 00:38:22,899 --> 00:38:26,739 the RAVE model for how to build influence, 897 00:38:26,739 --> 00:38:29,300 concrete steps and ways that you can build influence. 898 00:38:29,300 --> 00:38:32,739 So RAVE stands for relationships, appearances, 899 00:38:32,739 --> 00:38:35,139 visibility, expertise. 900 00:38:35,139 --> 00:38:37,739 These are what I view as the four key criteria 901 00:38:38,419 --> 00:38:40,540

to start building influence at work. 902 00:38:40,540 --> 00:38:43,020 And so within these four criteria, of course, 903 00:38:43,020 --> 00:38:44,659 there's a lot of different things you can do, 904 00:38:44,659 --> 00:38:47,979 but bucketed I think these criteria 905 00:38:47,979 --> 00:38:50,300 are gonna be some of the most critical to focus on 906 00:38:50,300 --> 00:38:53,020 if you're trying to build influence at work. 907 00:38:53,020 --> 00:38:54,459 All right, let's go through them. 908 00:38:54,459 --> 00:38:57,260 Okay, relationships. 909 00:38:57,260 --> 00:38:58,699 We alluded to this earlier. 910 00:38:58,699 --> 00:39:03,459 Relationships are so, so important in the workplace. 911 00:39:03,459 --> 00:39:07,540 Now it can be hard to get 30 minutes, an hour 912 00:39:08,340 --> 00:39:10,540 to meet with an executive, right? 913 00:39:10,540 --> 00:39:13,100 Get to know each other and build that relationship. 914 00:39:13,100 --> 00:39:16,419 So what's a small thing that we can do? 915 00:39:16,419 --> 00:39:19,459 Small talk, but not your usual small talk. 916 00:39:20,659 --> 00:39:23,300 A lot of us are on autopilot when we have small talk 917 00:39:23,300 --> 00:39:24,739 and that's why we don't like it. 918 00:39:24,739 --> 00:39:28,340 So if we're passing each other in the snap room, 919 00:39:28,340 --> 00:39:30,860 Danny hand, you ask, how was my weekend? 920 00:39:30,860 --> 00:39:32,739 And I'm gonna say, oh, my weekend was good. 921 00:39:32,739 --> 00:39:33,979 How was your weekend? 922 00:39:33,979 --> 00:39:36,419 And you're gonna say, oh, it was good, thanks. 923 00:39:36,459 --> 00:39:38,139 And then the conversation falls flat. 924 00:39:38,139 --> 00:39:41,020 And neither one of us think about what we were saying. 925 00:39:41,020 --> 00:39:42,699 It was just on autopilot. 926 00:39:42,699 --> 00:39:44,780 And neither one of us gained anything at all 927 00:39:44,780 --> 00:39:45,820 from the conversation either. 928 00:39:45,820 --> 00:39:47,580 Exactly, exactly. 929 00:39:47,580 --> 00:39:49,780 But there's those moments where we pass executives 930 00:39:49,780 --> 00:39:52,219 in the hall or we log onto a meeting 931 00:39:52,219 --> 00:39:55,379 and maybe we're the only ones there to start. 932 00:39:55,379 --> 00:39:58,860 How can we turn off autopilot small talk 933 00:39:58,860 --> 00:40:02,580 and instead have more powerful conversations? 934 00:40:02,580 --> 00:40:05,540 Well, that is asking the right questions 935 00:40:05,540 --> 00:40:07,540 and also giving the right responses. 936 00:40:07,540 --> 00:40:09,260 So I also talk about this concept 937 00:40:09,260 --> 00:40:11,939 called conversational threading in the book. 938 00:40:11,939 --> 00:40:14,500 And this is essentially asking questions 939 00:40:14,500 --> 00:40:16,739 that will elicit more threads. 940 00:40:16,739 --> 00:40:19,139 And also if you're answering a question, 941 00:40:19,139 --> 00:40:21,060 try to give more threads. 942 00:40:21,060 --> 00:40:23,340 So in this instance, you ask me, 943 00:40:24,340 --> 00:40:25,580 instead of how was your weekend, 944 00:40:25,580 --> 00:40:26,939 you might ask, oh Lorraine, 945 00:40:26,939 --> 00:40:29,419 what was the highlight of your weekend? 946 00:40:29,419 --> 00:40:32,100 Now I have to actually pause and think, 947 00:40:32,100 --> 00:40:34,020 what did I do this weekend? 948 00:40:34,020 --> 00:40:36,580 And then if I'm giving you more threads, 949 00:40:36,580 --> 00:40:37,659 I won't just say one thing. 950 00:40:37,659 --> 00:40:41,300 I might say, oh, I did a bike ride. 951 00:40:41,300 --> 00:40:45,780 I celebrated my friend's birthday at this new bar. 952 00:40:45,780 --> 00:40:49,860 And I got to read this book that I've really been enjoying. 953 00:40:49,860 --> 00:40:51,540 And now, Danny, you have three threads. 954 00:40:51,540 --> 00:40:53,899 So you can pull on one of those three 955 00:40:53,899 --> 00:40:56,100 and then, oh, what book are you reading? 956 00:40:56,100 --> 00:40:59,100 And I go into it and maybe it piques your interest 957 00:40:59,100 --> 00:40:59,939 and you start reading. 958 00:40:59,939 --> 00:41:02,580 And then we chat again and then we can talk about the book. 959 00:41:02,580 --> 00:41:06,780 So there's a lot of power in, again, 960 00:41:06,780 --> 00:41:07,899 a short conversation, 961 00:41:07,899 --> 00:41:10,780 but being intentional about that conversation. 962 00:41:11,699 --> 00:41:12,540 I like that. 963 00:41:12,540 --> 00:41:16,540 I had a good tip from my friend, Robbie Crabtree. 964 00:41:16,540 --> 00:41:19,540 And he always says, what's good? 965 00:41:19,540 --> 00:41:20,860 That's his opening. 966 00:41:20,860 --> 00:41:22,219 Because I'm always like, how are you? 967 00:41:22,219 --> 00:41:23,340 Fine, how are you? 968 00:41:23,340 --> 00:41:24,179 Fine. 969 00:41:24,179 --> 00:41:25,020 He's like, what's good? 970 00:41:25,020 --> 00:41:28,060 And I'm like, what's good? 971 00:41:28,060 --> 00:41:30,459 And it's such a tweak, but I'm like, 972 00:41:30,580 --> 00:41:33,899 he only wants to know the good things 973 00:41:33,899 --> 00:41:35,340 that are happening right now. 974 00:41:35,340 --> 00:41:36,419 And I've got to, all of a sudden, 975 00:41:36,419 --> 00:41:38,379 filter that in my mind a little bit 976 00:41:38,379 --> 00:41:40,060 because he wants to know something positive. 977 00:41:40,060 --> 00:41:42,540 So I've got to say, oh, my podcast. 978 00:41:42,540 --> 00:41:43,739 You know what else? 979 00:41:43,739 --> 00:41:44,899 Yeah, yeah. 980 00:41:44,899 --> 00:41:46,739 And what else that does, too, 981 00:41:46,739 --> 00:41:50,459 is you're now thinking positively 982 00:41:50,459 --> 00:41:52,300 about the conversation as well. 983 00:41:52,300 --> 00:41:55,260 When I ask you, how's work go, we're coworkers, 984 00:41:55,260 --> 00:41:57,459 I'm like, oh, like, how's work been? 985 00:41:57,459 --> 00:41:59,540 And you're like, oh, it's been

like, 986 00:41:59,540 --> 00:42:01,219 so busy, I have, yeah. 987 00:42:01,219 --> 00:42:02,860 You're like, I just have all this stuff. 988 00:42:02,860 --> 00:42:03,699 Like, how about you? 989 00:42:03,699 --> 00:42:05,540 I'm just like, okay, I guess this is like 990 00:42:05,540 --> 00:42:07,260 the vibe of the conversation now. 991 00:42:07,260 --> 00:42:09,419 But if it's, oh, like, what are you excited 992 00:42:09,419 --> 00:42:10,419 to be working on right now? 993 00:42:10,419 --> 00:42:11,260 Or what's good? 994 00:42:11,260 --> 00:42:14,300 You have to think, and it's just a different energy. 995 00:42:16,020 --> 00:42:18,580 So is there a nuance here? 996 00:42:18,580 --> 00:42:23,580 So let's say that you're a junior member of staff, 997 00:42:23,860 --> 00:42:28,860 and you just happen to bump into the CEO in the corridor, 998 00:42:28,899 --> 00:42:32,060 and he or she says, how are you? 999 00:42:32,060 --> 00:42:34,580 Do you go, well, I'm gonna tell you three things 1000 00:42:34,580 --> 00:42:35,620 about my weekend. 1001 00:42:36,780 --> 00:42:40,459 Is there a way of knowing whether someone 1002 00:42:40,459 --> 00:42:43,379 perhaps doesn't want small talk? 1003 00:42:44,780 --> 00:42:47,100 I think in that instance, yeah, 1004 00:42:47,100 --> 00:42:49,419 you're always sort of using your best judgment, right? 1005 00:42:49,419 --> 00:42:51,379 If the CEO's kind of like walking fast 1006 00:42:51,379 --> 00:42:53,379 and doesn't really seem to want to talk, 1007 00:42:53,379 --> 00:42:55,300 one thing that I like to do instead of saying, 1008 00:42:55,300 --> 00:42:58,379 oh, I'm good, is, again, use a more positive, 1009 00:42:58,379 --> 00:42:59,780 different word. 1010 00:42:59,780 --> 00:43:01,219 Oh, I'm doing wonderfully. 1011 00:43:02,100 --> 00:43:04,219 And maybe you just keep it there, or, 1012 00:43:04,219 --> 00:43:05,419 yeah, the day's been great so far. 1013 00:43:05,419 --> 00:43:08,620 Yeah, I need to add a little something. 1014 00:43:08,620 --> 00:43:10,739 Yeah, just sign a big client, 1015 00:43:10,739 --> 00:43:12,659 or just had a great conversation with a client, 1016 00:43:12,659 --> 00:43:15,219 like something just very quick and snappy. 1017 00:43:15,219 --> 00:43:17,139 But going back to your first question 1018 00:43:17,139 --> 00:43:19,699 of this whole podcast of the UPI, 1019 00:43:19,699 --> 00:43:23,860 always have in mind if an executive is going to, 1020 00:43:23,860 --> 00:43:25,500 maybe you're going to pass an executive, 1021 00:43:25,500 --> 00:43:28,620 and they ask who you are, what you've been up to, 1022 00:43:28,620 --> 00:43:32,620 like have some sort of answer ready in your back pocket. 1023 00:43:32,620 --> 00:43:36,219 And then similarly, like if they ask how you're doing 1024 00:43:36,219 --> 00:43:38,699 and they maybe do want to engage in some talk, 1025 00:43:39,739 --> 00:43:41,780 always have in mind, oh, like, you know, 1026 00:43:41,780 --> 00:43:44,939 maybe you pull something from the most recent All Hands, 1027 00:43:44,939 --> 00:43:49,100 or they sent out an email, or you saw something in the news. 1028 00:43:49,100 --> 00:43:51,500 So just having that in your back pocket. 1029 00:43:51,500 --> 00:43:56,500 And again, presence is all about intentionality. 1030 00:43:56,659 --> 00:43:59,139 So it's not kind of leaving things a chance, 1031 00:43:59,139 --> 00:44:01,820 it's about preparation and being thoughtful 1032 00:44:01,820 --> 00:44:04,620 about these key touch points and key moments. 1033 00:44:06,260 --> 00:44:09,580 So that's all, let's go to A. 1034 00:44:09,580 --> 00:44:13,100 Appearance, we touched on parts of it already. 1035 00:44:13,100 --> 00:44:17,219 So video presence, I think is really important, 1036 00:44:17,219 --> 00:44:20,780 very underrated still, can make a big difference 1037 00:44:20,780 --> 00:44:23,219 in how you're perceived. 1038 00:44:23,219 --> 00:44:28,219 And then appearance also can be things 1039 00:44:28,500 --> 00:44:31,979 like the clothes you wear, right? 1040 00:44:31,979 --> 00:44:34,780 Your body language, like are you someone 1041 00:44:34,780 --> 00:44:36,860 who's always like shoulders hunched, 1042 00:44:36,860 --> 00:44:37,979 and that's what people see, 1043 00:44:37,979 --> 00:44:39,659 or do you have your shoulders back 1044 00:44:39,659 --> 00:44:43,179 and you look like a generally confident person? 1045 00:44:43,179 --> 00:44:47,060 So again, small tweaks that make a big difference. 1046 00:44:48,020 --> 00:44:53,020 You know, sit up straight in your video calls, exactly. 1047 00:44:53,699 --> 00:44:57,179 Don't be kind of like looking around all the time 1048 00:44:57,179 --> 00:44:59,500 or look like you're like clicking on other links, 1049 00:44:59,500 --> 00:45:01,860 like all of that shapes perception. 1050 00:45:01,860 --> 00:45:03,419 Even if you don't think you're being watched, 1051 00:45:03,419 --> 00:45:05,179 like someone sees you. 1052 00:45:05,179 --> 00:45:06,899 So be mindful of that. 1053 00:45:08,020 --> 00:45:10,580 Now you've said it, you are sitting up very straight, 1054 00:45:10,580 --> 00:45:11,419 I've just noticed that. 1055 00:45:11,419 --> 00:45:12,260 I tend to lounge around a little bit. 1056 00:45:12,260 --> 00:45:14,020 It's like extra pillow to give me some support, 1057 00:45:14,260 --> 00:45:15,939 because otherwise it's very uncomfortable 1058 00:45:15,939 --> 00:45:17,260 to lean far back. 1059 00:45:17,260 --> 00:45:18,100 Yeah. 1060 00:45:18,100 --> 00:45:20,219 Well, you got to practice what you preach as well. 1061 00:45:20,219 --> 00:45:21,139 Good. 1062 00:45:21,139 --> 00:45:23,139 All right, V. 1063 00:45:23,139 --> 00:45:24,659 All right, V, visibility. 1064 00:45:24,659 --> 00:45:28,179 This is where I really faltered at LinkedIn, 1065 00:45:28,179 --> 00:45:32,219 where I thought the hard work would speak for itself. 1066 00:45:32,219 --> 00:45:35,860 And I didn't realize that I had to not just

do the good work, 1067 00:45:35,860 --> 00:45:38,979 which was expected, but also talk about the work. 1068 00:45:38,979 --> 00:45:43,580 And you have to talk about the work more than once. 1069 00:45:44,179 --> 00:45:45,820 You have to remember that everyone's really busy, 1070 00:45:45,820 --> 00:45:47,699 they're focused on themselves. 1071 00:45:47,699 --> 00:45:52,100 You have to constantly be your own champion, right? 1072 00:45:52,100 --> 00:45:53,739 Because if not you, then who? 1073 00:45:53,739 --> 00:45:57,459 So always make sure that you are finding ways to be visible, 1074 00:45:57,459 --> 00:45:59,139 but don't just be visible 1075 00:45:59,139 --> 00:46:00,580 for the sake of being visible, right? 1076 00:46:00,580 --> 00:46:02,179 If we, I know we're talking about influence, 1077 00:46:02,179 --> 00:46:05,659 but if we go back to the idea of presence again, 1078 00:46:05,659 --> 00:46:08,219 how others see us, where others see us, 1079 00:46:08,219 --> 00:46:10,340 and we want to make sure it's the right place. 1080 00:46:10,340 --> 00:46:14,580 So we're not just constantly talking about our wins 1081 00:46:14,580 --> 00:46:17,580 and our team channel, we want our executives to see. 1082 00:46:17,580 --> 00:46:18,580 So where are they? 1083 00:46:18,580 --> 00:46:20,260 Is there a different team channel? 1084 00:46:20,260 --> 00:46:22,020 Is there a company intranet? 1085 00:46:22,020 --> 00:46:25,580 So when I was at Prezi, I remember asking my boss, 1086 00:46:25,580 --> 00:46:27,659 like, where should I post this weekly newsletter 1087 00:46:27,659 --> 00:46:28,500 I want to write? 1088 00:46:28,500 --> 00:46:31,620 Because I want people to see what I do 1089 00:46:31,620 --> 00:46:34,540 and what my team did, lesson learned from LinkedIn, right? 1090 00:46:34,540 --> 00:46:36,340 I take away from LinkedIn, 1091 00:46:36,340 --> 00:46:38,260 and I was like, should I create like a special email 1092 00:46:38,260 --> 00:46:39,739 to serve and people can just sign up? 1093 00:46:39,739 --> 00:46:41,899 And she's like, just post it on the intranet, 1094 00:46:41,899 --> 00:46:43,620 that way everyone will see it. 1095 00:46:43,620 --> 00:46:45,060 And that was, it turned out, 1096 00:46:45,060 --> 00:46:46,020 I didn't realize that was new, 1097 00:46:46,020 --> 00:46:47,340 but it turned out that that was a place 1098 00:46:47,340 --> 00:46:49,219 that everyone went to for news. 1099 00:46:49,219 --> 00:46:51,699 And so now I had data scientists, you know, 1100 00:46:51,699 --> 00:46:52,939 pinging me each week being like, 1101 00:46:52,939 --> 00:46:54,419 oh, did you know we had this dashboard? 1102 00:46:54,419 --> 00:46:56,340 Or like, what about this person? 1103 00:46:56,340 --> 00:46:58,219 And engineers reaching out too, 1104 00:46:58,219 --> 00:47:01,219 and sometimes the C-suite as well commenting. 1105 00:47:01,219 --> 00:47:04,179 So making sure that you're being visible 1106 00:47:04,179 --> 00:47:05,580 and being visible in the right places 1107 00:47:05,580 --> 00:47:07,659 and being seen by the right people. 1108 00:47:07,659 --> 00:47:09,020 And then there's also different ways 1109 00:47:09,020 --> 00:47:10,459 to talk about your work as well, 1110 00:47:10,459 --> 00:47:12,860 because I know, especially for introverts, 1111 00:47:12,860 --> 00:47:14,860 they can feel very self-conscious, 1112 00:47:14,860 --> 00:47:16,620 not wanting the spotlight. 1113 00:47:16,620 --> 00:47:18,620 So there are also ways to position 1114 00:47:18,620 --> 00:47:20,260 how you talk about your work 1115 00:47:20,260 --> 00:47:23,020 so that it hopefully feels a little bit more natural, 1116 00:47:23,020 --> 00:47:24,659 but still gets your point across. 1117 00:47:25,860 --> 00:47:26,820 Yeah, and to that point, 1118 00:47:26,820 --> 00:47:29,060 so I was on the panel a few weeks ago, 1119 00:47:29,060 --> 00:47:31,100 and one of the questions was, 1120 00:47:31,100 --> 00:47:35,780 how do you talk about yourself 1121 00:47:35,780 --> 00:47:39,620 in a way that shows people what you're doing 1122 00:47:39,620 --> 00:47:43,179 when really it just feels like a brag 1123 00:47:43,179 --> 00:47:45,340 and it feels so uncomfortable 1124 00:47:45,340 --> 00:47:47,899 and against everything that you kind of stand for? 1125 00:47:49,379 --> 00:47:52,780 There's a few techniques that I really like. 1126 00:47:52,780 --> 00:47:57,100 So one is simply adjusting the language that we use. 1127 00:47:57,100 --> 00:47:59,580 There was research published in Harvard Business Review 1128 00:47:59,580 --> 00:48:02,699 that showed that when we use more collaborative language, 1129 00:48:02,739 --> 00:48:05,459 like we, us, our, 1130 00:48:05,459 --> 00:48:07,300 you're actually seen as more of a leader 1131 00:48:07,300 --> 00:48:09,739 versus the person who's always using I statements. 1132 00:48:09,739 --> 00:48:11,659 I did this, I did that. 1133 00:48:11,659 --> 00:48:14,179 And that's very powerful, especially as a team leader. 1134 00:48:14,179 --> 00:48:15,020 If you're an introvert, 1135 00:48:15,020 --> 00:48:17,260 you don't like all the attention on you, 1136 00:48:17,260 --> 00:48:19,300 frame it in terms of a team effort. 1137 00:48:19,300 --> 00:48:20,899 And it usually is a team effort, right? 1138 00:48:20,899 --> 00:48:23,459 Rarely do we sort of get things done on our own. 1139 00:48:23,459 --> 00:48:25,379 And especially if you're a team lead 1140 00:48:25,379 --> 00:48:26,500 and you frame it like that, 1141 00:48:26,500 --> 00:48:28,459 the work everyone knows always goes back to you 1142 00:48:28,459 --> 00:48:29,300 as the team leader, 1143 00:48:29,300 --> 00:48:30,699 but now you're positioning it in a way 1144 00:48:30,699 --> 00:48:32,860 that not only lifts others up, 1145 00:48:32,860 --> 00:48:34,419 but again, sort of shapes that perception 1146 00:48:34,419 --> 00:48:35,540 of how they see you. 1147 00:48:36,659 --> 00:48:40,419 Another one that I really

like that I did often at Prezi 1148 00:48:40,419 --> 00:48:43,540 is talk about learnings. 1149 00:48:43,540 --> 00:48:46,260 So not just, oh, my team did this, 1150 00:48:46,260 --> 00:48:48,860 or like an example is, okay, 1151 00:48:52,500 --> 00:48:55,020 this content theme did really well. 1152 00:48:55,020 --> 00:48:57,820 It surpassed our expectations. 1153 00:48:57,820 --> 00:48:59,659 Instead, we would frame it as, 1154 00:48:59,659 --> 00:49:02,179 okay, this content theme did really well. 1155 00:49:02,179 --> 00:49:05,739 And this might be helpful for the email marketing team 1156 00:49:05,739 --> 00:49:09,620 as they think about topics to promote. 1157 00:49:09,620 --> 00:49:11,580 This might help increase like open rates. 1158 00:49:11,580 --> 00:49:12,820 I know this is maybe something 1159 00:49:12,820 --> 00:49:14,379 that you all were working on. 1160 00:49:14,379 --> 00:49:15,379 This was a goal of yours. 1161 00:49:15,379 --> 00:49:18,300 So now I'm showing an understanding of their work 1162 00:49:18,300 --> 00:49:21,979 and giving ideas for how they can also succeed as well. 1163 00:49:21,979 --> 00:49:24,419 So when you can share it in terms of learnings, 1164 00:49:24,419 --> 00:49:26,260 I think that's also very powerful. 1165 00:49:27,260 --> 00:49:28,260 All right, good stuff. 1166 00:49:28,260 --> 00:49:30,820 The E, we're on E, rave. 1167 00:49:30,820 --> 00:49:32,739 Let's finish our rave. 1168 00:49:32,739 --> 00:49:34,020 We have expertise. 1169 00:49:35,020 --> 00:49:38,340 This is not only knowing your stuff, 1170 00:49:38,340 --> 00:49:39,500 which is important, right? 1171 00:49:39,500 --> 00:49:42,939 You want people to know what they can come for you for. 1172 00:49:42,939 --> 00:49:46,739 I also like to talk about LinkedIn in terms of expertise 1173 00:49:46,739 --> 00:49:50,739 because it's important to be known internally, yes. 1174 00:49:51,580 --> 00:49:54,500 And I also think it's important to build your brand 1175 00:49:54,500 --> 00:49:56,100 outside of work. 1176 00:49:56,100 --> 00:49:57,659 And when you can show your expertise 1177 00:49:57,659 --> 00:50:01,540 by being invited on panels or podcasts 1178 00:50:01,540 --> 00:50:04,139 or being interviewed for articles, 1179 00:50:04,139 --> 00:50:08,620 that does increase your brand 1180 00:50:08,620 --> 00:50:11,139 and perception internally as well. 1181 00:50:11,139 --> 00:50:13,379 I know it's a little bit counterintuitive 1182 00:50:13,379 --> 00:50:15,580 because a lot of people still think, 1183 00:50:15,580 --> 00:50:17,419 oh, LinkedIn, if I'm posting, 1184 00:50:17,419 --> 00:50:19,300 it looks like I'm looking for a job. 1185 00:50:19,300 --> 00:50:22,100 But when I started posting more on LinkedIn 1186 00:50:23,100 --> 00:50:24,780 because not everyone can do it, 1187 00:50:24,780 --> 00:50:26,219 they don't feel comfortable 1188 00:50:26,219 --> 00:50:28,379 because it is kind of scary like public speaking 1189 00:50:28,379 --> 00:50:30,780 to sort of take that first step. 1190 00:50:30,780 --> 00:50:34,780 I know people internally like thought of me as more senior, 1191 00:50:34,780 --> 00:50:37,419 like, oh, here's this person sort of putting her face 1192 00:50:37,419 --> 00:50:39,899 out there and putting her thoughts out there. 1193 00:50:39,899 --> 00:50:43,500 And when the time came for an opportunity internally, 1194 00:50:43,500 --> 00:50:45,060 there was this media round table 1195 00:50:45,060 --> 00:50:47,699 and the person who initially was going to do it, 1196 00:50:47,699 --> 00:50:49,100 I think was sick. 1197 00:50:49,100 --> 00:50:50,780 They saw that I was public speaking. 1198 00:50:50,780 --> 00:50:52,699 They saw that I was posting on LinkedIn 1199 00:50:53,739 --> 00:50:55,899 and they asked me to step in. 1200 00:50:55,899 --> 00:50:58,860 And funny enough, one of the people in that round table, 1201 00:50:58,860 --> 00:51:00,659 a few years later would become a client 1202 00:51:00,659 --> 00:51:01,820 when I started my own business. 1203 00:51:01,820 --> 00:51:04,860 So it just all comes full circle, yeah. 1204 00:51:04,860 --> 00:51:05,699 Yeah. 1205 00:51:06,939 --> 00:51:11,260 So let's talk a bit more about LinkedIn then. 1206 00:51:11,260 --> 00:51:14,060 So how often should we post on LinkedIn? 1207 00:51:14,060 --> 00:51:15,659 Because I hear so many different things 1208 00:51:15,659 --> 00:51:19,020 and every day I see posts about, 1209 00:51:19,020 --> 00:51:20,419 oh, the algorithm's changed. 1210 00:51:20,939 --> 00:51:22,540 I don't know about the algorithm anymore, 1211 00:51:22,540 --> 00:51:25,179 but do you have general rules that you recommend? 1212 00:51:25,179 --> 00:51:28,100 Because you've got how many 300 and something thousand? 1213 00:51:28,100 --> 00:51:30,219 Yeah, 330-ish, yeah. 1214 00:51:30,219 --> 00:51:33,699 Yeah, which is impressive to say the least. 1215 00:51:33,699 --> 00:51:35,300 Thanks. 1216 00:51:35,300 --> 00:51:38,419 So my rule of thumb with LinkedIn is consistency 1217 00:51:38,419 --> 00:51:41,379 is more important than number of times per week. 1218 00:51:41,379 --> 00:51:43,419 I think LinkedIn's official guidance is, 1219 00:51:43,419 --> 00:51:45,939 last time I checked is four times a week. 1220 00:51:45,939 --> 00:51:48,500 That's a lot, especially for someone starting out. 1221 00:51:48,500 --> 00:51:49,500 That's too much. 1222 00:51:49,500 --> 00:51:51,820 I think you're going to burn out. 1223 00:51:51,820 --> 00:51:54,419 So what I like to tell people is you want to stay consistent 1224 00:51:54,419 --> 00:51:57,580 and you want to set the bar really low for yourself. 1225 00:51:57,580 --> 00:52:01,340 So once a month, can you start there? 1226 00:52:01,340 --> 00:52:02,179 Yeah, of course. 1227 00:52:02,179 --> 00:52:03,379 Yeah, you can post once a month. 1228 00:52:03,379 --> 00:52:04,939 Okay, once you start, you're like, 1229 00:52:04,939 --> 00:52:05,939 okay, that wasn't too bad.

1230 00:52:05,939 --> 00:52:07,419 Maybe you go twice a month. 1231 00:52:07,419 --> 00:52:09,379 Then maybe you go once a week 1232 00:52:09,379 --> 00:52:14,179 and just make it so that it can be a consistent practice. 1233 00:52:14,179 --> 00:52:16,659 It's not the posting on LinkedIn 1234 00:52:16,659 --> 00:52:17,620 that's actually the hardest. 1235 00:52:17,620 --> 00:52:19,860 It's the consistency. 1236 00:52:19,860 --> 00:52:24,020 I talked to Ross Pomerantz, also known as Corporate Bro, 1237 00:52:24,020 --> 00:52:24,939 interviewed for my book. 1238 00:52:24,939 --> 00:52:29,379 And he shared this story with me of people go to him 1239 00:52:29,379 --> 00:52:31,780 and they're like, hey, can you engage with my post? 1240 00:52:31,780 --> 00:52:33,820 Because he has a big following. 1241 00:52:33,820 --> 00:52:37,739 And if he engages, it'll get a lot more visibility. 1242 00:52:37,739 --> 00:52:38,739 And he's like, you know what? 1243 00:52:38,739 --> 00:52:40,139 If you can be consistent 1244 00:52:40,139 --> 00:52:42,139 and come back to me in a few months, 1245 00:52:42,139 --> 00:52:46,060 then maybe I'll think about collaborating in this way. 1246 00:52:46,060 --> 00:52:48,860 And he says not one person has ever come back to him 1247 00:52:48,860 --> 00:52:49,979 because they don't stay consistent. 1248 00:52:49,979 --> 00:52:52,020 And it's hard because LinkedIn, too. 1249 00:52:52,020 --> 00:52:54,340 You start posting, you get like two likes 1250 00:52:54,340 --> 00:52:55,699 and one is from your mom. 1251 00:52:55,699 --> 00:52:57,219 Yeah, it doesn't feel great, 1252 00:52:57,219 --> 00:52:58,699 but you have to keep at it. 1253 00:52:58,699 --> 00:52:59,540 Yeah. 1254 00:53:00,780 --> 00:53:03,699 She doesn't know what LinkedIn is, bless her, but yeah. 1255 00:53:03,699 --> 00:53:06,500 Yeah, but yeah, it's harder. 1256 00:53:06,500 --> 00:53:08,340 You don't have as much of that immediate dopamine 1257 00:53:08,340 --> 00:53:11,020 as you do with like an Instagram or a TikTok. 1258 00:53:11,020 --> 00:53:13,939 So it takes a little bit more resilience, 1259 00:53:13,939 --> 00:53:17,260 I guess I would say, to keep at it. 1260 00:53:17,260 --> 00:53:20,379 But consistency is key and is the hardest part. 1261 00:53:21,379 --> 00:53:23,540 And what advice have you got for younger people? 1262 00:53:23,540 --> 00:53:25,020 So I can give you an example. 1263 00:53:25,020 --> 00:53:27,820 I work with some apprentices. 1264 00:53:27,820 --> 00:53:30,739 Also, my son is 20. 1265 00:53:30,739 --> 00:53:33,860 He's just starting his kind of corporate career. 1266 00:53:33,860 --> 00:53:36,100 And I'm like, dude, you gotta post on LinkedIn. 1267 00:53:36,100 --> 00:53:40,060 And he's like, I have no idea what to post. 1268 00:53:40,060 --> 00:53:42,300 I've just got nothing. 1269 00:53:42,620 --> 00:53:44,419 What advice to give to those people? 1270 00:53:45,659 --> 00:53:47,540 So the first piece of advice I would give 1271 00:53:47,540 --> 00:53:49,300 is around mindset, 1272 00:53:49,300 --> 00:53:52,939 which is to not feel like whatever you post 1273 00:53:52,939 --> 00:53:56,500 has to be the most groundbreaking, unique insight. 1274 00:53:56,500 --> 00:53:58,860 I hear this a lot when I speak about LinkedIn to companies. 1275 00:53:58,860 --> 00:54:00,419 They're like, you know, they'll raise their hand 1276 00:54:00,419 --> 00:54:02,860 during Q&A and they're like, well, I was so close 1277 00:54:02,860 --> 00:54:05,620 and I had this idea, but I don't know. 1278 00:54:05,620 --> 00:54:07,100 I feel like people have talked about it before. 1279 00:54:07,100 --> 00:54:09,659 And I'm like, yeah, everyone has. 1280 00:54:10,540 --> 00:54:14,459 I always say nothing on LinkedIn is unique. 1281 00:54:14,459 --> 00:54:17,020 We're all saying similar things in different ways. 1282 00:54:17,020 --> 00:54:18,219 But what is different 1283 00:54:18,219 --> 00:54:20,459 and why someone might follow me versus someone else 1284 00:54:20,459 --> 00:54:22,020 who also talks about presence 1285 00:54:22,020 --> 00:54:23,659 and communication and leadership 1286 00:54:23,659 --> 00:54:25,860 is that they feel connected to me. 1287 00:54:25,860 --> 00:54:27,139 They feel like they know me 1288 00:54:27,139 --> 00:54:28,500 or that we have some similarities 1289 00:54:28,500 --> 00:54:29,780 or maybe they're an introvert too 1290 00:54:29,780 --> 00:54:31,100 and the other person's an extrovert, right? 1291 00:54:31,100 --> 00:54:34,060 So it's like, it's the personal human element. 1292 00:54:34,060 --> 00:54:36,500 So first thing is around mindset. 1293 00:54:36,500 --> 00:54:38,899 And then the second thing is to realize 1294 00:54:38,899 --> 00:54:40,860 that we all have something to share. 1295 00:54:40,860 --> 00:54:43,020 And so I break it down into three buckets 1296 00:54:43,020 --> 00:54:46,820 for content types, personal, educational, professional. 1297 00:54:46,820 --> 00:54:49,979 So I would encourage your son and other apprentices 1298 00:54:49,979 --> 00:54:52,820 to think about, you know, what stories 1299 00:54:52,820 --> 00:54:54,739 or what can I share within each? 1300 00:54:54,739 --> 00:54:56,419 A lot of people start with educational 1301 00:54:56,419 --> 00:54:57,979 because that's the easiest. 1302 00:54:57,979 --> 00:55:00,060 What do I, what can I teach someone? 1303 00:55:00,060 --> 00:55:03,379 So you could talk about what you've learned 1304 00:55:03,379 --> 00:55:04,979 through the interview process. 1305 00:55:04,979 --> 00:55:07,100 You could talk about how you figured out 1306 00:55:07,100 --> 00:55:08,540 what you wanna do. 1307 00:55:09,219 --> 00:55:10,459 You could talk about, you know, 1308 00:55:10,459 --> 00:55:13,100 I feel like younger people are much more, 1309 00:55:13,100 --> 00:55:14,540 you know, much better at social media. 1310 00:55:14,540 --> 00:55:15,820 I don't know, you could teach about social media. 1311 00:55:15,820 -->

00:55:17,139 Like, I don't know, whatever it is 1312 00:55:17,139 --> 00:55:19,419 that you're passionate about. 1313 00:55:19,419 --> 00:55:20,340 Professional. 1314 00:55:20,340 --> 00:55:22,899 So if you're trying to get into a certain industry, 1315 00:55:22,899 --> 00:55:24,820 read what's going on in the news, 1316 00:55:24,820 --> 00:55:27,540 share some thoughts around an article that you read. 1317 00:55:28,860 --> 00:55:31,580 One line, two lines, like it doesn't have to be, 1318 00:55:31,580 --> 00:55:32,860 it can even be to start, 1319 00:55:32,860 --> 00:55:34,500 found this article interesting, right? 1320 00:55:34,500 --> 00:55:36,699 Just to kind of get comfortable. 1321 00:55:36,699 --> 00:55:39,540 And then personal is really where the content shines. 1322 00:55:39,540 --> 00:55:42,739 Like I said before, is you want people to get to know you 1323 00:55:42,739 --> 00:55:44,620 and to share your personal stories 1324 00:55:44,620 --> 00:55:46,300 as much as you feel comfortable 1325 00:55:46,300 --> 00:55:49,020 and as appropriate for a platform like LinkedIn. 1326 00:55:49,020 --> 00:55:52,739 But challenges you've gone through, personal stories, 1327 00:55:52,739 --> 00:55:54,459 people really resonate with those. 1328 00:55:55,540 --> 00:55:59,260 What's your most viral LinkedIn post? 1329 00:55:59,260 --> 00:56:01,659 The most viral in recent times, 1330 00:56:01,659 --> 00:56:03,540 what maybe a few months ago 1331 00:56:03,540 --> 00:56:06,899 was highlighting a CNBC article I wrote 1332 00:56:06,899 --> 00:56:10,899 about why you need to stop saying sorry so much. 1333 00:56:10,899 --> 00:56:11,739 Right. 1334 00:56:11,739 --> 00:56:13,620 People got pretty heated in the comments. 1335 00:56:13,620 --> 00:56:18,620 Provocative, absolutely works on LinkedIn I find. 1336 00:56:19,820 --> 00:56:21,179 I wasn't trying to be that provocative. 1337 00:56:21,179 --> 00:56:23,659 I mean, but everyone has an opinion, right? 1338 00:56:23,659 --> 00:56:26,899 I'm like, you know, cultural and oh, but you know, 1339 00:56:26,899 --> 00:56:28,500 you should apologize if you say something wrong. 1340 00:56:28,500 --> 00:56:29,780 And there's so much nuance to it. 1341 00:56:29,780 --> 00:56:32,500 So people got fired up about that one. 1342 00:56:32,500 --> 00:56:34,139 Yeah. 1343 00:56:34,139 --> 00:56:35,820 The other thing I just wanted to touch on 1344 00:56:35,820 --> 00:56:39,020 is you talk in the book about being an Asian female. 1345 00:56:40,540 --> 00:56:42,459 Now I am not an Asian female. 1346 00:56:43,820 --> 00:56:48,060 I'm the mainstream and I can only understand 1347 00:56:48,060 --> 00:56:51,179 and try and understand how people 1348 00:56:51,179 --> 00:56:55,780 from different diverse backgrounds face different challenges 1349 00:56:55,780 --> 00:56:56,899 to someone like me. 1350 00:56:58,340 --> 00:57:02,100 But I hope that the very diverse audience 1351 00:57:02,659 --> 00:57:04,419 listening to this podcast, and

I'd like to touch on it. 1352 00:57:04,419 --> 00:57:08,020 So keen to know what kind of challenges you faced 1353 00:57:08,020 --> 00:57:09,699 if you're comfortable talking about it 1354 00:57:09,699 --> 00:57:12,699 and what advice you've got for others, 1355 00:57:12,699 --> 00:57:17,699 including people like me who can be better allies? 1356 00:57:17,739 --> 00:57:18,860 Well, I appreciate the question. 1357 00:57:18,860 --> 00:57:21,379 Yeah, not a lot of people have asked me. 1358 00:57:21,379 --> 00:57:23,939 Yes, I do talk about my experience 1359 00:57:23,939 --> 00:57:27,659 as an Asian American woman and also touch on 1360 00:57:27,659 --> 00:57:31,100 generally the experiences of underrepresented people 1361 00:57:31,100 --> 00:57:32,939 in the workforce because it's different. 1362 00:57:32,939 --> 00:57:36,060 So I think like internally for me, 1363 00:57:38,100 --> 00:57:41,620 the thought around like hard work and staying humble 1364 00:57:41,620 --> 00:57:43,780 about my work and not really talking about it 1365 00:57:43,780 --> 00:57:46,340 and sort of a difference to authority. 1366 00:57:46,340 --> 00:57:49,340 I think that was very ingrained in me. 1367 00:57:49,340 --> 00:57:50,860 Like, I think people can feel this naturally 1368 00:57:50,860 --> 00:57:53,060 even if you are not Asian American, 1369 00:57:53,060 --> 00:57:55,780 but I had sort of that extra layer where I was like, 1370 00:57:55,780 --> 00:57:58,060 oh, this is really just like how things are 1371 00:57:58,060 --> 00:57:59,060 and this is what you're taught. 1372 00:57:59,060 --> 00:58:02,219 And it's just like very internalized as you grow up. 1373 00:58:02,219 --> 00:58:06,260 So I think that was a big thing to break free from. 1374 00:58:06,260 --> 00:58:08,780 And I interviewed my friend and speaker, 1375 00:58:08,780 --> 00:58:10,340 Jerry Wong in the book. 1376 00:58:10,340 --> 00:58:13,899 And I asked him, you know, it can sometimes feel, 1377 00:58:13,899 --> 00:58:15,979 sometimes I get the question about, 1378 00:58:15,979 --> 00:58:19,979 well, how can you stay true to yourself, 1379 00:58:19,979 --> 00:58:22,100 but also corporate America feels 1380 00:58:23,020 --> 00:58:24,780 like you have to kind of go against all that. 1381 00:58:24,780 --> 00:58:28,580 And he gave this really poignant advice where he said, 1382 00:58:29,100 --> 00:58:31,620 you know, our parents, they gave certain advice 1383 00:58:31,620 --> 00:58:34,179 because they grew up in a different time. 1384 00:58:34,179 --> 00:58:36,260 And so we can still honor the values 1385 00:58:36,260 --> 00:58:39,020 that are important to our culture, to our family, 1386 00:58:39,020 --> 00:58:42,139 while also understanding that we have more information now 1387 00:58:42,139 --> 00:58:47,020 and we understand how the rules of corporate America is, 1388 00:58:47,020 --> 00:58:50,820 and that if we want to succeed and excel, 1389 00:58:50,820 --> 00:58:54,139 there are certain things that

we have to start doing 1390 00:58:54,139 --> 00:58:56,459 that might feel a little bit uncomfortable. 1391 00:58:57,179 --> 00:58:58,260 You're not going to want to do something 1392 00:58:58,260 --> 00:59:01,060 that like at the very core goes against, 1393 00:59:02,939 --> 00:59:04,379 against a really important value, 1394 00:59:04,379 --> 00:59:06,260 but like deference to authority, 1395 00:59:07,219 --> 00:59:10,260 your boss actually wants to hear your opinion 1396 00:59:10,260 --> 00:59:12,620 and they hired you for a reason, right? 1397 00:59:12,620 --> 00:59:15,379 And so it's not respectful to say, oh, wait, 1398 00:59:15,379 --> 00:59:17,540 I'm not, I don't know if that quite makes sense 1399 00:59:17,540 --> 00:59:19,500 or how we thought about this idea or, 1400 00:59:19,500 --> 00:59:22,620 oh, I actually recommend we go in this direction, right? 1401 00:59:22,620 --> 00:59:24,219 It's not always just like, oh, you know, 1402 00:59:24,219 --> 00:59:25,060 what do you want to do? 1403 00:59:25,060 --> 00:59:27,860 Your boss wants you to make it as easy as possible for them. 1404 00:59:27,860 --> 00:59:30,419 So knowing that we have more information 1405 00:59:30,419 --> 00:59:32,179 and perhaps on a personal side, 1406 00:59:32,179 --> 00:59:34,620 we can still respect our elders and do all of that. 1407 00:59:34,620 --> 00:59:39,620 Like, I think that was like a very powerful learning for me. 1408 00:59:39,860 --> 00:59:42,260 And then there are stereotypes as well 1409 00:59:43,219 --> 00:59:46,020 that come with being an Asian American. 1410 00:59:46,020 --> 00:59:49,659 And I interviewed Webflow CEO, Linda Tong in the book, 1411 00:59:49,659 --> 00:59:51,419 and she gave this great anecdote. 1412 00:59:53,219 --> 00:59:54,659 She worked for the NFL. 1413 00:59:55,260 --> 00:59:57,620 People wouldn't expect an Asian American woman 1414 00:59:57,620 --> 01:00:02,020 to necessarily be, you know, high up at the NFL. 1415 01:00:02,020 --> 01:00:05,979 And so she basically used that to her advantage. 1416 01:00:05,979 --> 01:00:08,419 And she's like, I know you have these stereotypes about me. 1417 01:00:08,419 --> 01:00:11,699 I'm actually gonna just show, like, I'm such a super fan. 1418 01:00:11,699 --> 01:00:12,979 I'm gonna be great at my job 1419 01:00:12,979 --> 01:00:14,820 and I'm gonna just shock all of you 1420 01:00:14,820 --> 01:00:17,659 and it's gonna work in her favor, right? 1421 01:00:17,659 --> 01:00:20,820 And then Vin Zhang, also communication expert, 1422 01:00:20,820 --> 01:00:24,540 I think over formerly of, yeah, Instagram followers now, 1423 01:00:25,379 --> 01:00:29,020 he gave this great advice to me where he said, 1424 01:00:29,020 --> 01:00:33,419 he just imagined that there was, you know, no ceiling, 1425 01:00:33,419 --> 01:00:35,699 like, be so good they can't ignore you. 1426 01:00:35,699 --> 01:00:37,540 The bamboo ceiling is, you know, what we call it, 1427 01:00:37,540 --> 01:00:39,540 but like, be so good they can't ignore you. 1428 01:00:39,540 --> 01:00:41,459 So be so good at your craft 1429 01:00:41,459 --> 01:00:43,739 and don't even think about the ceiling 1430 01:00:43,739 --> 01:00:45,100 because that limits you, right? 1431 01:00:45,100 --> 01:00:48,820 Like, just keep going, be great at what you do. 1432 01:00:49,860 --> 01:00:52,379 Don't feel like there are any limitations 1433 01:00:52,379 --> 01:00:54,939 because even that mindset, I think can, you know, 1434 01:00:54,939 --> 01:00:56,580 you're thinking there's a barrier 1435 01:00:56,580 --> 01:00:58,500 that even can get in your head a little bit. 1436 01:00:58,500 --> 01:01:00,500 So it's just about focusing on you, 1437 01:01:00,500 --> 01:01:02,020 doing the best that you can. 1438 01:01:02,899 --> 01:01:04,139 And so I appreciate your question. 1439 01:01:04,139 --> 01:01:08,659 I feel like you already asking that shows a lot about, 1440 01:01:08,659 --> 01:01:10,219 like, who you are and your personality. 1441 01:01:10,219 --> 01:01:13,580 And so I think, you know, when you see someone in the office 1442 01:01:13,580 --> 01:01:15,739 or like at an event who might be a little bit quieter 1443 01:01:15,739 --> 01:01:18,060 or having trouble kind of breaking in 1444 01:01:18,060 --> 01:01:20,060 to just be aware of all those people, 1445 01:01:20,060 --> 01:01:22,540 you know, introvert, Asian-American, someone else 1446 01:01:22,540 --> 01:01:25,459 and just make space for their voice to be heard. 1447 01:01:25,459 --> 01:01:26,620 But I appreciate the question. 1448 01:01:26,620 --> 01:01:27,459 Thank you. 1449 01:01:28,419 --> 01:01:29,340 You're welcome. 1450 01:01:29,340 --> 01:01:30,620 I'm a big fan of Vin. 1451 01:01:30,620 --> 01:01:33,500 So is he someone who was, you interviewed for the book? 1452 01:01:33,500 --> 01:01:34,540 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1453 01:01:34,540 --> 01:01:35,379 Amazing. 1454 01:01:35,379 --> 01:01:36,699 Yeah, he's great. 1455 01:01:36,699 --> 01:01:38,939 Now, brings me on to another question, Ashley. 1456 01:01:38,939 --> 01:01:43,300 You interviewed a ton of amazing people for the book. 1457 01:01:43,300 --> 01:01:45,020 Some of my heroes, you know, 1458 01:01:45,020 --> 01:01:48,379 kept pairing their name in the book. 1459 01:01:48,379 --> 01:01:50,020 I don't know whether you can answer this one, 1460 01:01:50,979 --> 01:01:53,899 but is there like one bit of advice 1461 01:01:53,899 --> 01:01:55,739 from all of these amazing people 1462 01:01:55,739 --> 01:02:00,780 that really stood out and resonated with you the most? 1463 01:02:00,780 --> 01:02:02,179 I thought you were going to ask me who's my favorite 1464 01:02:02,179 --> 01:02:04,419 and I was like, I can't answer that. 1465 01:02:04,419 --> 01:02:06,860 Oh yeah, let me ask you that actually, yeah. 1466 01:02:06,860 --> 01:02:08,100 That's a better question. 1467 01:02:08,100 --> 01:02:09,260 No, no, I don't have a favorite. 1468 01:02:09,260 --> 01:02:10,899 They were all

like, that was my favorite part 1469 01:02:10,899 --> 01:02:12,820 about this book process was, wow, 1470 01:02:12,820 --> 01:02:14,340 I got to bring up all my heroes 1471 01:02:14,340 --> 01:02:16,739 and just talk to all these amazing people. 1472 01:02:16,739 --> 01:02:20,780 So it wasn't that there was one piece of advice 1473 01:02:20,780 --> 01:02:24,300 that stood out, but I would say like imposter syndrome 1474 01:02:24,300 --> 01:02:28,939 popped up as a theme that even top executives face. 1475 01:02:28,939 --> 01:02:32,139 And so that was, you know, it's just good to be, 1476 01:02:32,139 --> 01:02:34,419 you know it, but then it's like good to be reminded of it 1477 01:02:34,419 --> 01:02:35,260 every now and then. 1478 01:02:35,260 --> 01:02:37,899 So I interviewed like many C-suite leaders 1479 01:02:37,899 --> 01:02:39,699 at large companies. 1480 01:02:39,699 --> 01:02:42,899 I interviewed authors, keynote speakers, 1481 01:02:43,860 --> 01:02:47,139 content creators, like such a broad spectrum of people. 1482 01:02:47,139 --> 01:02:48,739 So that was one thing. 1483 01:02:48,739 --> 01:02:53,739 And then really focusing on your craft was another, 1484 01:02:55,500 --> 01:02:59,060 being open to feedback, to keep improving, 1485 01:02:59,060 --> 01:03:00,939 also another theme. 1486 01:03:00,939 --> 01:03:04,860 And then great, great advice if you dive in 1487 01:03:04,860 --> 01:03:08,260 for any of the listeners around communication as well. 1488 01:03:08,260 --> 01:03:10,419 But yeah, we really covered the gamut. 1489 01:03:10,820 --> 01:03:13,379 We talked about, you know, your career brand 1490 01:03:13,379 --> 01:03:17,179 also known as a personal brand, executive presence, 1491 01:03:17,179 --> 01:03:21,620 yeah, influence, meetings, presentations, LinkedIn's, 1492 01:03:21,620 --> 01:03:25,020 a lot of advice from different people on different areas. 1493 01:03:25,020 --> 01:03:28,419 So I was really appreciative that they all made the time. 1494 01:03:30,379 --> 01:03:35,379 And if you could speak to anyone in the world for advice, 1495 01:03:38,300 --> 01:03:39,979 who you've never spoken to before. 1496 01:03:40,540 --> 01:03:42,379 A hero, personal presence. 1497 01:03:42,379 --> 01:03:44,020 You know who I, 1498 01:03:46,139 --> 01:03:50,260 the person who comes to mind actually is Amy Poehler. 1499 01:03:50,260 --> 01:03:51,260 Right. 1500 01:03:51,260 --> 01:03:53,939 Yeah, I have been loving her podcast. 1501 01:03:53,939 --> 01:03:58,899 I feel like she is so smart, so personable. 1502 01:03:58,899 --> 01:04:03,899 She has a great presence, seems like a really kind person. 1503 01:04:04,340 --> 01:04:08,219 She just seems like a great person to get to know, yeah. 1504 01:04:08,219 --> 01:04:09,820 Have you ever reached out to her? 1505 01:04:10,659 --> 01:04:11,500 I haven't, no. 1506 01:04:11,500 --> 01:04:13,419 She just won her Golden Globe for her podcast, 1507 01:04:13,419 --> 01:04:14,820 which is very exciting. 1508 01:04:14,820 --> 01:04:17,100 But yeah, I've never reached out now. 1509 01:04:17,100 --> 01:04:18,379 Maybe you should. 1510 01:04:18,379 --> 01:04:21,219 Maybe, yeah, it's good inspiration, yeah. 1511 01:04:24,659 --> 01:04:27,379 Now we haven't got time to go into personal brand 1512 01:04:27,379 --> 01:04:29,659 and all of the other amazing things in your book, 1513 01:04:29,659 --> 01:04:30,899 but I have one question. 1514 01:04:31,820 --> 01:04:36,820 The K, Lorraine K. Lee, is that a personal brand decision? 1515 01:04:38,219 --> 01:04:39,580 Is that when you became an author? 1516 01:04:40,139 --> 01:04:41,100 I'm always curious. 1517 01:04:41,100 --> 01:04:41,939 I love it. 1518 01:04:41,939 --> 01:04:43,179 It's got such a ring to it, 1519 01:04:43,179 --> 01:04:45,780 but I wanted to get your thoughts. 1520 01:04:45,780 --> 01:04:50,100 So that was when I started writing articles in high school. 1521 01:04:50,100 --> 01:04:55,020 I thought it just added a little something to my byline. 1522 01:04:55,020 --> 01:04:57,219 It would allow for less confusion 1523 01:04:57,219 --> 01:05:00,179 if there was another Lorraine Lee out there. 1524 01:05:00,179 --> 01:05:03,139 And yeah, I think it kind of, like you said, 1525 01:05:03,139 --> 01:05:06,699 like it just kind of completes the name. 1526 01:05:06,699 --> 01:05:08,979 So I kept it and then like, 1527 01:05:09,340 --> 01:05:10,899 that was my brand writing a lot of articles 1528 01:05:10,899 --> 01:05:11,820 and I didn't wanna switch it 1529 01:05:11,820 --> 01:05:13,620 when I started doing the speaking and all that. 1530 01:05:13,620 --> 01:05:16,139 So yeah, the consistency 1531 01:05:16,139 --> 01:05:19,020 and you just keep building and growing on that. 1532 01:05:19,020 --> 01:05:20,340 Yeah. 1533 01:05:20,340 --> 01:05:21,300 I think it pops. 1534 01:05:21,300 --> 01:05:22,139 I love it. 1535 01:05:22,139 --> 01:05:24,500 Same, never gonna have feedback, love it. 1536 01:05:24,500 --> 01:05:25,459 Yeah. 1537 01:05:25,459 --> 01:05:27,580 Okay, so where can people find you 1538 01:05:27,580 --> 01:05:29,500 and what do you want them to know about? 1539 01:05:29,500 --> 01:05:30,979 Tell us everything. 1540 01:05:30,979 --> 01:05:31,820 Yes, okay. 1541 01:05:31,820 --> 01:05:34,739 So of course LinkedIn, find me there. 1542 01:05:34,739 --> 01:05:36,379 You can connect with me, 1543 01:05:36,379 --> 01:05:38,300 send me a message that you heard me on this podcast. 1544 01:05:38,620 --> 01:05:39,979 I would love to say hello. 1545 01:05:39,979 --> 01:05:43,300 I will have launched my first ever masterclass 1546 01:05:43,300 --> 01:05:45,739 by the time this podcast comes out. 1547 01:05:45,739 --> 01:05:48,100 It's going to be a one and a half day experience 1548 01:05:48,100 --> 01:05:50,739 on learning how to communicate your value 1549 01:05:50,739 --> 01:05:52,540 and create your value narrative 1550 01:05:52,540 --> 01:05:55,219 so that you can talk confidently

about what you do 1551 01:05:55,219 --> 01:05:58,179 and its impact in any situation. 1552 01:05:58,179 --> 01:06:00,580 Hopefully there will be another cohort coming out 1553 01:06:00,580 --> 01:06:03,060 around the time that this podcast comes out. 1554 01:06:03,060 --> 01:06:06,379 So you can find out more on my website. 1555 01:06:06,379 --> 01:06:09,100 I have a free five-day email course as well 1556 01:06:09,100 --> 01:06:12,780 that teaches you how to go from invisible to influential. 1557 01:06:12,780 --> 01:06:14,260 So you can grab that there 1558 01:06:14,260 --> 01:06:17,580 and then Instagram as well, Lorraine Kay Lee. 1559 01:06:18,780 --> 01:06:19,979 And what's the website? 1560 01:06:21,260 --> 01:06:23,139 Lorrainekaylee.com. 1561 01:06:23,139 --> 01:06:23,979 Lorraine Kay Lee. 1562 01:06:23,979 --> 01:06:25,500 And there's loads of free resources and cool stuff on there. 1563 01:06:25,500 --> 01:06:26,979 Yeah, lots of free resources on the website. 1564 01:06:26,979 --> 01:06:28,659 So check that out. 1565 01:06:28,659 --> 01:06:30,580 And then I have many LinkedIn learning courses 1566 01:06:30,580 --> 01:06:32,300 on topics like communication 1567 01:06:32,300 --> 01:06:33,780 and presenting and public speaking. 1568 01:06:33,780 --> 01:06:35,860 So if you go to LinkedIn learning, 1569 01:06:35,860 --> 01:06:37,179 many of them are 10 minutes or less. 1570 01:06:37,179 --> 01:06:39,860 So I encourage you to check those out too. 1571 01:06:39,860 --> 01:06:41,060 Amazing. 1572 01:06:41,060 --> 01:06:41,899 Thank you so much. 1573 01:06:41,899 --> 01:06:45,100 Just my final question is always, 1574 01:06:45,100 --> 01:06:50,100 do you have a final thought for everyone listening? 1575 01:06:51,540 --> 01:06:56,540 I would re-emphasize that presence is a skill for everyone. 1576 01:06:57,219 --> 01:06:59,260 It's something that we should start 1577 01:06:59,260 --> 01:07:01,379 as soon as possible working on 1578 01:07:01,379 --> 01:07:04,419 and we'll continue to build and grow it over time. 1579 01:07:04,419 --> 01:07:07,500 But it's something certainly achievable and doable. 1580 01:07:07,500 --> 01:07:10,659 And even in those small moments and those small steps, 1581 01:07:10,659 --> 01:07:12,020 you'll start noticing differences. 1582 01:07:12,020 --> 01:07:15,820 So I'm very excited for the listeners here to get going 1583 01:07:15,820 --> 01:07:17,860 and send me updates on LinkedIn, 1584 01:07:17,860 --> 01:07:19,939 how you're implementing the tips and frameworks. 1585 01:07:19,939 --> 01:07:20,939 I would love to hear. 1586 01:07:22,020 --> 01:07:22,860 Amazing. 1587 01:07:22,860 --> 01:07:25,060 Lorraine Kay Lee, you are an inspiration. 1588 01:07:25,060 --> 01:07:27,379 Thank you so much for your time. 1589 01:07:27,379 --> 01:07:28,219 Thank you. 1590 01:07:29,860 --> 01:07:32,300 You have been listening to Pitch Masters 1591 01:07:32,340 --> 01:07:35,340 with me, your host, Danny Fontaine. 1592 01:07:35,340 --> 01:07:39,939 You can find me on social media, YouTube, Instagram, 1593 01:07:39,939 --> 01:07:42,659 TikTok, Facebook, and LinkedIn. 1594 01:07:42,659 --> 01:07:45,939 Just search for Danny Fontaine or Pitch Guy 1595 01:07:45,939 --> 01:07:49,300 for exclusive clips from behind the scenes 1596 01:07:49,300 --> 01:07:50,979 and from the show. 1597 01:07:50,979 --> 01:07:53,659 You can also find where to order my book, 1598 01:07:53,659 --> 01:07:56,860 Pitch, How to Captivate and Convince Any Audience 1599 01:07:56,860 --> 01:08:00,739 on the Planet by searching on Google 1600 01:08:00,739 --> 01:08:03,820 or visiting pitchguy.co.uk 1601 01:08:03,820 --> 01:08:07,100 where you'll also find additional resources 1602 01:08:07,100 --> 01:08:12,060 and a newsletter to sign up to for exclusive content. 1603 01:08:12,060 --> 01:08:14,500 As always, thank you so much for listening. 1604 01:08:14,500 --> 01:08:17,540 Your support means absolutely everything to me 1605 01:08:17,540 --> 01:08:21,259 and feel free to reach out to me via my website as well. 1606 01:08:21,259 --> 01:08:25,220 I absolutely love to hear great stories 1607 01:08:25,220 --> 01:08:28,100 about incredible pitches. 1608 01:08:28,100 --> 01:08:32,140 So until next time, catch you later.