رونوشت کامل S3-E6 Interview With a Sex Worker: Annie Temple's Journey from Erotic Masseuse to Creative Entrepreneur

hired at any jobs that could offer me an income, a livable wage basically. 00:06:49.786 --> 00:06:50.810 Yes, exactly. 00:06:50.810 --> 00:07:00.968 So I was paying my rent but I was finding it very difficult to eat and I would steal some of my food and it was a very desperate time for me. 00:07:00.968 --> 00:07:06.091 I was very depressed and it was just a very difficult time. 00:07:06.091 --> 00:07:13.269 But I'm the kind of person that I'm impulsive and also I don't settle. 00:07:13.269 --> 00:07:18.125 If I don't like how something is in my life, I'll do something to change it. 00:07:18.125 --> 00:07:36.646 So the idea to become an exotic dancer came from a girlfriend of mine who was already dancing and she had had suggested maybe I do it part time just to supplement my retail income, because I was working for minimum wage at the time in retail and this was 1997. 00:07:36.646 --> 00:07:44.151 So it was like seven dollars an hour, and so she had suggested that and she'd given me phone numbers to reach out to if I decided to do it. 00:07:44.151 --> 00:07:52.661 But when I decided to call an agent to look into becoming an exotic dancer, I didn't tell my friend, I didn't tell anyone. 00:07:52.661 --> 00:08:12.855 I just showed up at the agent or phoned the agent and then was invited into the office the same day and I went into the office and he told me what I would need to do to start dancing and I was able to actually start stripping that evening at the Marble Arch. 00:08:18.860 --> 00:08:20.047 It's a very well-known strip club that's in Vancouver. 00:08:20.047 --> 00:08:22.319 That isn't there anymore, but it used to be just one of the most hopping places in town. 00:08:22.319 --> 00:08:29.892 It was really really fun, fun place and I went down there that night my very, very first night dancing. 00:08:29.892 --> 00:08:45.089 I was doing what was called VIP dancing, where I'd walk around and I would offer a one song dance on a little stage for $15 to the customer and he would be able to sit right at the stage and talk to me. 00:08:45.089 --> 00:08:45.389 And it was. 00:08:45.389 --> 00:08:49.427 It was like a full, a full strip down to nothing. 00:08:49.427 --> 00:08:55.482 But it was not the distance where you're up way up high on a stage. 00:08:55.482 --> 00:09:02.162 It was kind of like a unique thing at that time for the customers get up, close and personal. 00:09:02.162 --> 00:09:04.467 So that was what I did that night. 00:09:04.467 --> 00:09:14.961 I sold a number of dances my very first night and made more in three hours that night than I had than I made in two weeks at my retail. 00:09:15.023 --> 00:09:15.744 Oh, my goodness. 00:09:16.605 --> 00:09:16.966 Yes. 00:09:16.966 --> 00:09:23.285 So I needless to say, I quit my job the next morning my regular job and I started dancing. 00:09:23.285 --> 00:09:27.601 That became my full-time thing and I really, really loved it. 00:09:27.601 --> 00:09:46.889 But my mother really didn't love it,

so there was some friction there, but it ended up being something that I continued to do on and off over the course of my life, because I went on to go back to university, have babies. 00:09:46.889 --> 00:09:51.008 I tried a bunch of different other square jobs over the years. 00:09:51.008 --> 00:09:55.804 I was a marketing manager for a non-profit that helped foster kids. 00:09:55.804 --> 00:09:59.619 I was also a marketing manager for a motorcycle dealership. 00:09:59.619 --> 00:10:05.618 Those were two positions I really enjoyed, and I worked in transition houses and frontline support. 00:10:05.618 --> 00:10:11.870 So I have I have actually a lot of different experience in what we call square jobs. 00:10:12.572 --> 00:10:12.971 Okay. 00:10:13.653 --> 00:10:24.943 Yeah, but but I kept returning to the adult entertainment industry because I loved entertaining and because the money was good and the scheduling. 00:10:24.943 --> 00:10:33.035 Scheduling was flexible and you have the opportunity, like you were talking about earlier, to work for yourself and express yourself freely. 00:10:33.035 --> 00:10:35.725 It's a very I mean performing. 00:10:35.725 --> 00:10:40.975 You get to come up with your own music, your own theme, design your costume. 00:10:40.975 --> 00:10:52.779 It's so fun Like it's a very creative work environment too, because all of your co workers and colleagues are also people who are creating their own shows and love performing. 00:10:52.779 --> 00:10:54.062 So it's, it's. 00:10:54.062 --> 00:10:55.785 It was an awesome job. 00:10:55.785 --> 00:10:56.447 I loved it. 00:10:56.447 --> 00:10:57.369 I loved it. 00:10:58.451 --> 00:10:59.553 How long did you do that? 00:10:59.553 --> 00:11:06.225 I did that on and off for, let me think, 1997 till about 2010. 00:11:06.225 --> 00:11:07.846 So I guess that's 13 years. 00:11:07.846 --> 00:11:10.448 But I continued to work in the strip clubs. 00:11:10.448 --> 00:11:30.082 Later I became a strip club massage goddess I called myself a massage goddess because I felt like I was too old to be called a massage girl and and then later on, went on to do in-person intimacy work, doing sensual massages. 00:11:30.082 --> 00:11:40.302 So through all throughout all of that, I also had to deal with health issues that I went through over the years and a very like rapidly changing body. 00:11:40.403 --> 00:11:43.183 So my body changed so much just having babies. 00:11:43.183 --> 00:12:09.606 Then it changed a lot when I had my large intestine, 75% of my large intestine removed, and then just last year in September I actually had the rest of my large intestine removed and sex industry with a rapidly changing body and it's been very interesting, to say the least. 00:12:11.152 --> 00:12:14.384 Honestly, it sounds like you're able to overcome whatever comes your way. 00:12:14.384 --> 00:12:23.268 So how old were you when you finally found your community, where you felt like you belong, that you weren't being judged and that sincerely part of? 00:12:24.210 --> 00:12:27.134 It didn't happen until I was in the exotic dance industry. 00:12:27.134 --> 00:12:31.428 That was really the first time I started to feel like I belonged to a community. 00:12:31.428 --> 00:12:51.950 I think we all have a longing to belong to a community, and that's why people go to church and people join clubs and people join gangs, and so when you find a group of people that accept you the way you are and that can relate to you and understand you, then that really creates bonds that other people can't understand. 00:12:51.950 --> 00:12:55.660 And I think that happens too with people who, like, end up on the streets. 00:12:55.660 --> 00:13:11.783 You know, the street people become their family, and so it's harder to get out of that situation, because that's where your community, the people you love yeah, so that's that's for sure too. 00:13:11.783 --> 00:13:16.267 Like, I started a website in 2000, which was 2001-ish. 00:13:16.267 --> 00:13:34.115 It was for exotic dancers and it was to bring us all together onto one platform so that we could share information, and part of that goal, for me as well, was to encourage them to embrace their work and not internalize the oppression that was all around us. 00:13:34.174 --> 00:13:49.038 Because I had done that, I had felt ashamed of being a dancer and also felt some I don't know what contempt towards my customers, because I felt like that was how I was supposed to think. 00:13:49.038 --> 00:13:58.240 I thought that I was should be ashamed of myself and my job and my work, and I also thought I should be disgusted by my customers. 00:13:58.240 --> 00:14:16.859 And when I was able to recognize that most of these ideas around the sex industry feminist ideas around the sex industry come from people who've never worked in the industry or, if they did, they actually were sexually exploited and had terrible experiences. 00:14:16.859 --> 00:14:22.941 And you know, I differentiate between a sex worker and someone who is sexually exploited. 00:14:22.941 --> 00:14:23.942 It's not the same thing. 00:14:23.942 --> 00:14:25.094 The difference is huge. 00:14:25.173 --> 00:14:43.278 It's called consent, and so when people who have been sexually exploited try to speak on behalf of sex workers or read a message that we're all exploited, that they're doing us a disservice because the majority of us actually want to do the work. 00:14:43.278 --> 00:14:44.301 That's why we do it. 00:14:44.301 --> 00:14:45.504 We choose that work. 00:14:45.504 --> 00:14:49.897 It is a situation of adults, consenting adults, you know so. 00:14:49.897 --> 00:15:10.980 So that was some a huge kind of revelation for me, when I realized that these were just theories, they weren't facts, and that I could feel empowered by my work and that I could love my customers and I could be empowered by it and embrace it and not feel ashamed of what I was doing so. 00:15:10.980 --> 00:15:24.172

That was such an amazing liberating feeling that I wanted to give that to other dancers and make sure that they all knew that we can actually be happy with who we are and what we do and not have to feel bad about ourselves. 00:15:24.533 --> 00:15:27.659 Got it when we were talking in our pre-interview. 00:15:27.659 --> 00:15:41.437 You mentioned that you had joined organizations sex worker organizations, I might add and I have to be honest, I had no idea that erotic entrepreneurs or entertainers had organizations. 00:15:41.437 --> 00:15:43.722 Can you explain that to us please? 00:15:44.629 --> 00:15:45.772 Yes, for sure, you know. 00:15:45.772 --> 00:16:00.965 It's so funny because the vast majority of society wouldn't have any reason to know that the sex worker community is actually massive and it is globally connected. 00:16:00.965 --> 00:16:06.621 We have multiple organizations that work for the health and safety of sex workers. 00:16:06.621 --> 00:16:08.751 We have them in every single country. 00:16:08.751 --> 00:16:14.422 We have them across each country, so we're connected. 00:16:14.422 --> 00:16:29.325 For instance, in Canada, we're connected with every province across Canada, and then we're also connected with all of the sex worker organizations that are in the United States and India and everywhere UK, like you name it. 00:16:29.325 --> 00:16:30.629 We're all connected. 00:16:30.629 --> 00:16:35.279 But even before the internet, they were holding huge conferences for sex workers. 00:16:35.279 --> 00:16:38.035 It's fascinating and most people don't know. 00:16:38.250 --> 00:16:45.244 But yeah, we've been doing this work probably for as long as sex work has been around, which is the oldest profession. 00:16:45.244 --> 00:16:49.360 Some provide in-person frontline support work. 00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:56.543 So there are organizations that help people on the street, for instance, who work on the street as sex workers. 00:16:56.543 --> 00:17:01.476 Some of them provide resources for people who want to get out of the industry. 00:17:01.476 --> 00:17:04.743 Some of them are more about activism. 00:17:04.743 --> 00:17:16.708 Like, we've had multiple charter challenges in Canada and we even had all of the sex work laws struck down, but then another government came in and replaced them with worse laws. 00:17:16.708 --> 00:17:25.612 So this has been an ongoing fight, an ongoing struggle to try and get the health and safety and the labor rights that we deserve. 00:17:25.612 --> 00:17:31.304 Because they don't listen to us and silence us most of the politicians. 00:17:31.304 --> 00:17:43.502 There's so much political pressure, and because sex is such a taboo subject and people don't even like to talk about it, we just keep being pushed into the margins. 00:17:44.510 --> 00:17:59.105 I have to tell you that as I read your book, I was really surprised at the commonalities not only between your industry and the beauty industry, but also really any independent service industry. 00:17:59.730 --> 00:18:03.460 When I was exotic dancing, I was quite young and I only really saw it as a job. 00:18:03.460 --> 00:18:17.369 I hadn't really considered my sex industry work as my career at that time, and that's why I went in and out of it, in and out of it, but when I returned to it in my 40s I decided that this is it. 00:18:17.369 --> 00:18:30.070 I'm not going to leave again Like I want to make this my business and I want to do it the right way, and so I reached out to a lot of people I know who do that kind of work and I got some advice. 00:18:30.070 --> 00:18:30.751 But I did. 00:18:30.751 --> 00:19:02.000 I really just wanted a book of how other sex workers started and ran their businesses and what worked for them, and so, about five years into running my own massage business, I felt that I was in a position that I could actually write that book, and so I put it together chapter by chapter, and then I thought what's missing and I added a few things that I thought were missing, and my favorite chapter is the one on on the mindset money. 00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:03.844 Mindset, manifest money. 00:19:03.844 --> 00:19:05.873 But yeah, so it's. 00:19:05.873 --> 00:19:17.260 It's really about wanting to empower sex workers to consider their work a business, treat it like a business and make good money and enjoy their work. 00:19:17.260 --> 00:19:26.553 So it's about, of course, being safe and screening customers and that kind of thing and having a safety plan and all of that. 00:19:26.553 --> 00:19:37.519 But it's also about how can I position myself as a businesswoman to maximize my income for the target audience that I want to reach. 00:19:38.290 --> 00:19:46.057 If you're a sex worker and you read a marketing book, it might be a little more difficult to identify how you can apply it to your own work. 00:19:46.057 --> 00:20:03.410 So, having been in the industry of being a marketing manager and then now being a sex worker, I thought that was an opportunity to put it into words that would reflect how you could apply it specifically to the sex industry. 00:20:03.410 --> 00:20:05.657 That's fascinating because you have to be safe. 00:20:05.657 --> 00:20:13.723 You know a lot of people try to focus on how unsafe it is to be a sex worker and be meeting clients one on one. 00:20:13.723 --> 00:20:17.098 But realtors do it, hairstylists do it. 00:20:17.098 --> 00:20:22.942 Lots of people are doing that and, yeah, it can be dangerous if you're not careful and if you don't screen people. 00:20:22.942 --> 00:20:24.352 So yeah. 00:20:24.352 --> 00:20:28.529 So there's lots of advice in the business Bible for working safely alone. 00:20:28.950 --> 00:20:38.743 So for me, because I'm a disabled mother, I have certain limitations and that is part of how I determine my brand. 00:20:38.743 --> 00:20:45.981 So my limitations are things like I wouldn't want to be a sex worker who goes on trips with clients. 00:20:45.981

--> 00:20:48.413 I don't want to have overnights with clients. 00:20:48.413 --> 00:20:57.377 I I like to have no longer than three hours at the most with one client, because I find that I get too tired and exhausted. 00:20:57.377 --> 00:21:00.612 So those are some of the considerations. 00:21:00.932 --> 00:21:20.525 My workspace is in an older building with no elevator, so people who are in wheelchairs or people who struggle with stairs they are not going to be my target audience, and I also prefer to work during the day and avoid seeing clients who might be partaking in substances, alcohol or drugs. 00:21:20.525 --> 00:21:26.143 So I look for clients who are available during the day. 00:21:26.143 --> 00:21:40.192 They either run their own business or they're managers or owners of their companies, and they can get away during the day to get a massage companies and they can get away during the day to get a massage. 00:21:40.192 --> 00:22:09.732 So when I took everything into consideration, I did my SWOT analysis, which is I identified my strengths, my weaknesses, my opportunities and my threats, and then I determined, based on that, who would be my niche, my best target client, and for me that would be a middle to a higher, higher end of the middle class men who own or run their own companies and have, you know, flexibility in their schedule. 00:22:09.732 --> 00:22:26.843 They're looking for an environment that's clean and a service provider who's professional, and they basically look at their, their interactions with sex workers as part of their health. 00:22:26.843 --> 00:22:46.031 You know just their manner, like like they, they see sex workers like they go to see a massage therapist or they go to get, you know, a pedicure or whatever, like it's just to meet their needs in a professional way and it doesn't have to interfere with their life in any way or cause any problems. 00:22:46.031 --> 00:22:48.897 And so those, those are my, my favorites. 00:22:49.018 --> 00:23:02.378 I like those guys and so I'm going to expect those guys to send me a polite message when they want a book, to be completely willing to send me a picture of their face if I ask for it, which I do, yeah, I do it. 00:23:02.378 --> 00:23:29.038 I do it for two reasons One, because I feel safer if the client feels comfortable sending me their face photo and so that I can share it with one person who, when I see that client for the first time, person who, when I see that client for the first time, if anything was to happen to me, then that client's face picture would be given to someone who could give it to the police or whatever, but I've never had a violent experience myself personally. 00:23:29.038 --> 00:23:43.970 So I and I think a large part of that reason is because I'm very picky like I won't even respond to someone unless they they come across in a kind way through their, their messages and they're extremely respectful. 00:23:43.970 --> 00:23:55.435 If they try to negotiate with me or push my boundaries in a text message before I've even ever met them, then I just stop engaging and I don't take them as a client. 00:23:55.516 --> 00:24:05.027 So there are so many different ways that you can figure out who your niche is based on, what you're willing to do, what your gifts are. 00:24:05.027 --> 00:24:08.820 For instance, like there are so many different kinds of sex workers. 00:24:08.820 --> 00:24:18.137 There's dominatrixes, there's adult film entertainers, there's content creators, like on OnlyFans, there's so many different kinds, right? 00:24:18.137 --> 00:24:27.299 So you need to choose what, what is the industry that you want to do and what kind of client do you want to attract, and then you have to build your own business around that. 00:24:27.800 --> 00:24:31.614 So for me, my, my place was always meticulously clean. 00:24:31.614 --> 00:24:38.243 I have high quality, unscented products, and you know you just get a very perfect. 00:24:38.243 --> 00:24:40.672 I'm on time, always on time. 00:24:40.672 --> 00:24:44.078 There's mood, music, there's atmosphere. 00:24:44.078 --> 00:24:48.012 It's just a beautiful, calming, professional experience. 00:24:48.012 --> 00:25:09.116 And so, then, the next thing which I wanted to teach through the book was, once you figure out who you want to attract, every time you get a really good client, you give them the absolute best service you possibly can and remind them that you would like them to keep coming back, and then build your regulars. 00:25:09.116 --> 00:25:22.971 Then you have a stable of regulars who you know are safe to see, and then they keep coming, and that's how you build your business In all service industries and probably other corporate jobs as well, but we're focusing on service industries. 00:25:23.814 --> 00:25:27.340 How do you balance your work life with your home life? 00:25:27.340 --> 00:25:32.117 I mean, you're a mother, you're a wife, you're a writer, you're an activist. 00:25:32.117 --> 00:25:34.182 You have so many things going on. 00:25:34.182 --> 00:25:36.920 How do you juggle all of this? 00:25:38.224 --> 00:25:42.519 I mean when I'm going through my health struggles, and they're really hard. 00:25:42.519 --> 00:25:45.126 There isn't a lot of balance, to be honest. 00:25:45.126 --> 00:26:04.003 But what I have found, and why I prefer the adult entertainment industry and why I've returned to it over and over again, is because it does give me more flexibility, Because I can make the same in a few hours that I would make in a week at another job. 00:26:04.003 --> 00:26:21.894 More time and energy to spend with my family, to actually, you know, put my children in after school activities things that I wasn't able to do before and just, you know, be able to be present and be there for the people that I love. 00:26:21.894 --> 00:26:23.637 That that's so meaningful for me. 00:26:23.637 --> 00:26:28.135 And another thing is it allows me to write,

which I love writing. 00:26:29.577 --> 00:26:43.518 I have one more question for you and it's an important one, because everybody, but especially creatives, eventually will have burnout and it is paralyzing and unproductive and frustrating and all of those things. 00:26:43.518 --> 00:26:52.531 You mentioned in your book that burnout is also a challenge for sex workers and you gave some advice and I think really it is universal advice. 00:26:52.531 --> 00:26:57.769 Could you please tell our listeners how you deal with burnout and to not dread going to work? 00:26:59.152 --> 00:26:59.432 Sure. 00:26:59.432 --> 00:27:13.037 So for me, burnout is, it's the devil, and it comes very easily, especially for, you know, people with disabilities or health challenges like I have. 00:27:13.037 --> 00:27:17.321 So I have to be very careful about where I put my energy. 00:27:17.321 --> 00:27:36.078 Some of the things that I do is I just completely ignore people that I get a bad feeling off of, or that don't message me in a way that I would like them to message me, because I don't want to waste my time and energy on people that are probably not going to be a good client. 00:27:36.078 --> 00:27:46.738 As soon as I start noticing that I don't want to see any clients or that I'm dreading an appointment or anything like that, then I know I'm exhausted. 00:27:48.894 --> 00:28:01.990 It's emotional labor when you work in the adult entertainment industry, because you're constantly trying to provide an experience that an emotional experience for the other person. 00:28:01.990 --> 00:28:11.470 So so you have to be so you know careful of everything you say and do, how you respond, how you react to everything they say and do. 00:28:11.470 --> 00:28:16.359 And, depending on the person, it can be very exhausting emotionally. 00:28:16.359 --> 00:28:29.222 And so that can happen really easily if you're burnt out, if you've been working too much, if your health isn't at its best or for whatever reason, if you're just feeling like you just hate your job. 00:28:29.222 --> 00:28:34.780 That's when you know that you're burnt out and the best thing at that time, of course, is to take a break. 00:28:34.780 --> 00:28:39.314 But sometimes, for financial reasons, people aren't able to take a break. 00:28:39.314 --> 00:29:02.953 So in those situations, I would, you know, encourage you to reach out to your favorite clients that don't drain your energy and just say hi and see if they'd be interested in booking an appointment, and do it very respectfully and kindly, with no expectations, or only take clients that you know don't drain you and just say you're busy to the rest of them. 00:29:04.396 --> 00:29:15.996 You know there's so many different ways to manage burnout, but really the best if you can is to get away and, honestly, to have like holidays holidays away from work all weekend. 00:29:15.996 --> 00:29:18.000 I think that that's the best thing to do. 00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:24.891 I think the best thing is to really take actual holidays and take time away from work to spend with people you love. 00:29:24.891 --> 00:29:27.055 And I love how Grant Cardone puts it. 00:29:27.055 --> 00:29:36.234 He says don't don be obsessed with your work and the things that make you money and the things that excite you and your creativity. 00:29:36.234 --> 00:29:51.682 Be obsessed with your spouse, be obsessed with your children, be obsessed with the people that you care about and the causes that you care about, and it's not just balance, it's actually you want to have success in all the areas of your life, not just balance. 00:29:51.682 --> 00:30:09.736 You know so when you do need to take time off because you're burning out, definitely invest in yourself and invest in those relationships and and use that as an excuse to spend time doing other things that you know feed you and make you feel good. 00:30:10.778 --> 00:30:22.272 Annie Temple's book, which is Annie Temple's Business Bible, is available on Amazon, but you can also order it through her website, AnnieTemplecom. 00:30:22.272 --> 00:30:31.480 She also has another book out which I have just ordered, and it is called Healing in Stilettos a Memoir. 00:30:31.480 --> 00:30:33.528 So that should be really good. 00:30:33.528 --> 00:31:00.488 I'm going to dive into it very soon, and that's another wrap for One Good Thing Media. 00:31:00.488 --> 00:31:03.318 Thank you so much for joining us today. 00:31:03.318 --> 00:31:12.982 If you haven't already, please give us a follow, hit the notification button and, if your heart is so moved, leave us a five rating. 00:31:12.982 --> 00:31:18.079 It's an easy thing for you to do and it means the world to us. 00:31:18.079 --> 00:31:21.789 We'll return next week with our regular programming. 00:31:21.789 --> 00:31:25.432 Until then, you know we love you. 00:31:25.432 --> 00:31:27.973 Bye loves, Bye loves. 00:31:37.520 --> 00:31:41.203 One Good Thing Media is brought to you 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