رونوشت کامل NTTFGPOD S6 Ep.128 w/Jersey Metal Book

00:05:08.399 And I thought of Jersey metal. 00:05:08.399 --> 00:05:17.160 And then from there I had to find a partner, and along came Allen, because he ended up interviewing, and reviewing my book. 00:05:17.160 --> 00:05:19.079 Ronnie James deal. 00:05:19.079 --> 00:05:19.360 Okay. 00:05:19.360 --> 00:05:22.439 So I ended up doing a partnership together. 00:05:22.439 --> 00:05:23.439 And what year was that? 00:05:23.439 --> 00:05:26.319 Around 2020. 00:05:26.319 --> 00:05:28.920 Won the partnership for the book. 00:05:28.920 --> 00:05:29.399 For deal? 00:05:29.399 --> 00:05:31.800 No. The of the partnership? 00:05:31.800 --> 00:05:33.319 Yeah. Just like during Covid. 00:05:33.319 --> 00:05:34.120 Yeah, yeah. 00:05:34.120 --> 00:05:35.360 Took me the book. 00:05:35.360 --> 00:05:38.199 Took two and a half years to make. Do I help? 00:05:38.199 --> 00:05:40.600 Covid was a great time, actually, to start a project. 00:05:40.600 --> 00:05:43.079 Right. You got to have that kind of how we got into this. 00:05:43.079 --> 00:05:46.120 We we had talked about it for years, but then you got time on your hands. 00:05:46.120 --> 00:05:49.600 Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. 00:05:49.600 --> 00:05:55.720 So first story and like, you just mentioned Zeppelin, so you like, you took the bus, right? 00:05:55.720 --> 00:05:58.240 And so there was no story. 00:05:58.240 --> 00:06:00.399 I told you that I was 12. 00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:03.399 Wow. Yeah. You guys have kids? 00:06:03.720 --> 00:06:04.360 Very small. 00:06:04.360 --> 00:06:07.319 Okay. But, like, I can't leave my 13 year old alone in the room. 00:06:08.360 --> 00:06:08.519 Yeah. 00:06:08.519 --> 00:06:11.959 No go in the city. I mean, the extent of. 00:06:11.959 --> 00:06:14.319 I think we took the nine to the Willow Brook. 00:06:14.319 --> 00:06:16.160 That's from Bloomfield Avenue. 00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:18.360 And that was like around 13, 14. 00:06:18.360 --> 00:06:21.480 But I wouldn't even imagine going to the garden at that age. 00:06:21.480 --> 00:06:22.480 But that's kudos to you. 00:06:22.480 --> 00:06:30.879 Yes, I did to the Berlin Wall for taking the bus, you know, but, that was because it was just going on like maybe a day or something like that back in the day. 00:06:30.879 --> 00:06:35.800 But to go into the city, my parents, you know, my father would drive on the weekends. 00:06:35.800 --> 00:06:41.160 My mother would go to see her mom, father, during the week, you know, up in the Bronx. 00:06:41.160 --> 00:06:41.399 Yeah. 00:06:41.399 --> 00:06:45.759 So I knew how to take the bus and then the subway up to there, and then I just figured out. 00:06:46.120 --> 00:06:47.680 And I was also into the art. 00:06:47.680 --> 00:06:53.680 And there was this guy called scene that was doing all the graffiti back in those days, you know, on the subway cars. 00:06:53.959 --> 00:07:05.560 And so I got to, you know, copy down some of these stuff, you know, and I just figured out where all the stops were, you know, because I was going there to the house multiple times to see my, my grandparents. 00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:08.680 So you go see Zeppelin. 00:07:08.680 --> 00:07:09.920 You're 12 years old. 00:07:09.920 --> 00:07:12.439 You're by yourself. Yeah. Okay. 00:07:14.079 --> 00:07:18.800 This is how certain movie star know that you're by you're by yourself. 00:07:18.800 --> 00:07:19.079 Literally. 00:07:19.079 --> 00:07:23.240 It's the plot of Home Alone, by the way. 00:07:23.240 --> 00:07:24.120 But, like. 00:07:24.120 --> 00:07:24.399 All right. 00:07:24.399 --> 00:07:27.639 So you navigate in from in this story, I remember you get like a ticket. 00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:28.279 Right. 00:07:28.279 --> 00:07:34.639 Which like, it seems like it was getting tickets to closer to the family whole easier back then. Yeah. 00:07:31.959 --> 00:07:34.639 Like a little cheaper. 00:07:34.639 --> 00:07:35.199 Yeah. 00:07:35.199 --> 00:07:36.160 Oh, I see them. 00:07:36.160 --> 00:07:38.040 Bought five bucks to see kiss. 00:07:38.040 --> 00:07:38.480 Yeah. 00:07:38.480 --> 00:07:42.560 Four bucks to, like, you know, Ticketmaster convenience charge in those days. 00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:48.079 And I remember waiting on line after, you know, soon after to, to get tickets. 00:07:48.079 --> 00:07:58.439 You know, when my parents realized I was going to shows now and so, so I'd be waiting, you know, overnight sometime for tickets in front of the Capital Theater or the garden, you know, Nassau Coliseum. 00:07:58.439 --> 00:08:11.439 Even so, I have a an older brother who introduced me to all this music, so I like what growing up in the 90s, when everybody was, like, into rap, like Benny and Wu-Tang, all that stuff where I am, too. 00:08:11.639 --> 00:08:13.879 But I was also wearing a kiss jacket, the school. 00:08:13.879 --> 00:08:20.040 And then they were like, let that fucking where I was photographing those bands back then was so as well as that, you know. 00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:22.560 So I have an appreciation. 00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:23.800 He used to tell me stories. 00:08:23.800 --> 00:08:26.839 He's like, yeah, I went to see Springsteen at the Capitol Theater. 00:08:27.199 --> 00:08:33.480 I saw he used to tell me stories like, when bands used to play the big venues garden. 00:08:34.399 --> 00:08:36.320 They might stop at the Capitol Theater. 00:08:36.320 --> 00:08:39.799 Yeah, and do another show there under a different name or something. 00:08:40.519 --> 00:08:51.200 So, like, I have an appreciation for those, but, so just as an example, Queen Zeppelin, like, you're there, you're in, you're up front, you're taking pictures. 00:08:51.200 --> 00:08:54.080 Nobody I guess back then nobody's stopping you. 00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:55.240 You look at your skin. 00:08:55.240 --> 00:08:56.840 The security was a lot lighter. 00:08:56.840 --> 00:09:00.000 And so like, they they knew I wasn't going to cause any trouble. 00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:01.759 You know, I had a

camera on my back, you know. 00:09:01.759 --> 00:09:03.559 Oh, let me take a few pictures. It's no big deal. 00:09:03.559 --> 00:09:04.639 They figured it somebody out. 00:09:04.639 --> 00:09:12.440 Yeah, but I wouldn't like, I wouldn't I wouldn't overstep, you know, and try to go into that area or try to get in front of other people. 00:09:12.440 --> 00:09:14.639 I always try to stick to the aisle, you know. 00:09:14.639 --> 00:09:16.759 And that way no one was saving. 00:09:16.759 --> 00:09:18.320 Yeah. No. Yeah. 00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:19.320 Okay. Yeah. 00:09:19.320 --> 00:09:24.159 as the book progressed, I started to see pictures that were like almost backstage though, right. 00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:24.840 Or hanging with. 00:09:24.840 --> 00:09:29.960 So I got back from a lot of those photos came from the bands, themselves. 00:09:29.960 --> 00:09:41.720 I needed photos to kind of put the reader in a spot where, you know, they're inside the club, they're backstage early on to get the idea of how, like, this all started. 00:09:42.039 --> 00:09:46.639 And and I got them from the bands by just contacting them online. 00:09:46.639 --> 00:09:49.000 Would you know if someone gave you their information? 00:09:49.000 --> 00:09:53.039 I feel like back then it was so, so much harder to connect. 00:09:53.039 --> 00:09:54.840 Right now we have the internet. 00:09:54.840 --> 00:09:57.440 We have right ways to use social media. 00:09:57.440 --> 00:10:01.000 Back then, it's like, I got to know somebody who know somebody or like that. 00:10:01.080 --> 00:10:03.879 I'm with you. Yeah. I'm, photo agent. 00:10:03.879 --> 00:10:06.200 I run a photo agency called Frank White Photo Agency. 00:10:06.200 --> 00:10:09.360 So I get to find people all the time. 00:10:09.399 --> 00:10:09.759 Awesome. 00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:26.240 You know, and so I took their information and they have photos, and I try to pick all the photos, from the state, you know, wherever, you know, Jersey photographers, they I just want, like, clubs, theaters, arenas that I don't have whatever you might have. 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:33.080 Let's check it out and we make a decision from the big venues as the Guardian and Brendan Byrne Arena. 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:42.559 I'm very open, to to little clubs, to the Union Jack, to, circus. 00:10:42.559 --> 00:10:44.399 Circus. Yeah. So stuff. 00:10:44.399 --> 00:10:45.879 I've never even heard hole in the wall. 00:10:45.879 --> 00:10:53.480 Yeah, well, so that means you had to have been going to your going shows a whole time. 00:10:53.480 --> 00:10:55.120 Every day there. 00:10:55.120 --> 00:10:58.120 Like every week, every week, every week. 00:10:58.200 --> 00:10:59.600 They say, are you going to the shows? 00:10:59.600 --> 00:11:02.639 You know, in the beginning, it was mostly the arenas and theaters. 00:11:02.639 --> 00:11:16.440 And then when I was old enough to go into the clubs around, you know, the industry at the in the 1970s, you know, I started going to a mix each week and, you know, I would bring my camera and all the time. 00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:20.960 So you had to have been known by that, like, there's that, there's that guy called Frank. 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:23.279 Oh, for sure, sure for sure. Yeah. 00:11:23.279 --> 00:11:24.600 Frank Letterman. 00:11:24.600 --> 00:11:25.000 Yeah. 00:11:25.000 --> 00:11:31.440 There were people there like, you know, one guy I worked at Capitol Theater, Jeff Witwer, he would, just say, I know this guy. 00:11:31.440 --> 00:11:32.679 You know, the guy comes here all the time. 00:11:32.679 --> 00:11:34.679 Photographs, you know, even while he's cool. 00:11:34.679 --> 00:11:37.320 You know, this wasn't a trouble. 00:11:34.679 --> 00:11:37.320 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Help me out. 00:11:37.320 --> 00:11:51.960 Sometimes gives you more more of a show, you know, or the Ritz or, you know, or, you know, one of the clubs and, you know, the at the time that was there were around that knew me, you know, so we kind of, you know, make a friendship with them. 00:11:51.960 --> 00:11:55.519 One of the pictures I saw in there, correct me if I'm wrong, willies. 00:11:56.399 --> 00:11:59.200 Yes, but it was that the original, where? 00:11:59.200 --> 00:12:00.039 The stairway. 00:12:00.039 --> 00:12:02.279 Oh, good. Bucket scar. That ballroom. 00:12:00.039 --> 00:12:02.279 That's right. 00:12:02.279 --> 00:12:03.399 Because you saw the building. 00:12:03.399 --> 00:12:05.679 That's when I went to see it. 00:12:05.679 --> 00:12:06.840 They said because you. 00:12:06.840 --> 00:12:12.879 I believe you said it was the first club in, like, the Singer Ville area or something. 00:12:13.080 --> 00:12:15.360 That a Union Jack was sort of near there. 00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:16.600 Right there. 00:12:16.600 --> 00:12:17.320 So. Okay. 00:12:17.320 --> 00:12:17.679 Yeah. 00:12:17.679 --> 00:12:22.200 But, that was sort of like the place to go at that time period. 00:12:22.440 --> 00:12:23.279 Wasn't that big. 00:12:23.279 --> 00:12:25.840 It was I yeah, it was about the same size. 00:12:25.840 --> 00:12:29.399 You know, they might have, they might have maybe did something on the inside, the front. 00:12:29.399 --> 00:12:34.000 You said it was too, but I think, yeah. 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:35.039 Yes, yes. 00:12:35.039 --> 00:12:43.159 There was like and so we, you know, concentrated on obviously the, the heavy metal artists that came into that room. 00:12:43.799 --> 00:12:50.600 my question would be, okay, you guys get together in 2021 ish to, to write this. 00:12:50.759 --> 00:13:01.919 How do you did you keep journals like how did you recall all these all this information like we were talking about randomly about, a certain show we went to and we looked at a lot of shows. 00:13:02.320 --> 00:13:06.919 I mean, I remember we went to a show, I couldn't say where it was going to say what year it was. Okay. 00:13:06.919 --> 00:13:11.639 How do you have how do you have that that

recall of the dates and the stories and the time? Okay. 00:13:11.639 --> 00:13:25.320 So a lot of times I back in the day when I first started going to shows, you know, I wanted to have everything as a souvenir, you know, from like a t shirt to, maybe the tour program or, the photos. 00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:36.559 Obviously, I wanted to write down something about it, and I would just, you know, start taking some notes, you know, like, I would go in to my grandparents house, you know, just sit there like, you know, just draw. 00:13:36.559 --> 00:13:39.320 You know, I was into art and drawing as a kid. 00:13:39.320 --> 00:13:42.519 So I just would sketch or, you know, write things down. 00:13:42.519 --> 00:13:44.120 And then that kind of kept going. 00:13:44.120 --> 00:13:49.799 But I never considered myself a writer back then because I was more doing things like photography. 00:13:49.879 --> 00:13:50.200 Yeah. 00:13:50.200 --> 00:13:54.240 Level that, you know, nobody else around me was doing, you know. 00:13:54.240 --> 00:13:57.840 So I just kept going with that and with the notes and stuff. 00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:08.679 I just gathered some of them, you know, would gather a flier or, or whatever I could get from the show and have it in my, put it in my, drawers and kept it there until I started getting file cabinet. 00:14:09.080 --> 00:14:12.200 Then I started putting all my stuff in file cabinets. 00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:15.679 Got organized archive this guy. Yeah. 00:14:15.679 --> 00:14:16.440 That's that I like. 00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:18.960 I have like, a dozen file cabinets. 00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:19.519 All that. 00:14:19.519 --> 00:14:23.279 All surround me with everything from, you know, set list. 00:14:23.320 --> 00:14:31.879 You know, invites, you know, our recipes for, you know, for, for parties, photo passes, tickets. Wow. 00:14:31.960 --> 00:14:36.639 Slides, negatives, prints, slides, stuff that you need to look back on. 00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:39.240 And I just keep collecting that over the years. 00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:41.639 It's like you had the foresight back then, but you didn't. 00:14:41.639 --> 00:14:43.320 Yeah, I read a book or something like that. 00:14:43.320 --> 00:14:50.960 But yeah, trying to get the setlists early on, you know, like they, you know, some would still see what they had to remember on the, on the floor, you know. 00:14:51.440 --> 00:14:57.720 So that's what, that's what I love, I love we planned like five minutes ahead of time. You think. Yeah. 00:14:57.879 --> 00:15:08.519 The, what I like is that you actually you would say the show, you know, it was, AC crazy AC, DC opening for like, New Jane or opening for who? 00:15:08.519 --> 00:15:10.440 I forget. 00:15:08.519 --> 00:15:10.440 But other bands that were back then. 00:15:10.440 --> 00:15:13.639 But it's like after their third album, they should be headlining. 00:15:13.799 --> 00:15:15.679 Yeah. Not really, you know. 00:15:15.679 --> 00:15:16.120 Yeah.

00:15:16.120 --> 00:15:20.480 But, you would, you would, you would jot down the setlist, right? 00:15:20.799 --> 00:15:21.240 Yeah. 00:15:21.240 --> 00:15:24.240 Well, you know, like, they want to put things in order, you know. 00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:27.639 So that way, you know, a lot of other people will probably went to that show. 00:15:27.720 --> 00:15:30.320 Yeah. So like, you know, I kind of want to keep things. 00:15:30.320 --> 00:15:32.240 So I don't keep getting emails. 00:15:32.240 --> 00:15:35.399 Hey, you know that song was there instead of, you know. 00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:35.639 Yeah. 00:15:35.639 --> 00:15:42.480 It's like, you know, how to just just check, you know, sometimes with other people or, you know, the setlist. 00:15:42.480 --> 00:15:47.000 I had or wherever I could to figure out, you know, what? 00:15:47.000 --> 00:15:47.840 Everything was in order. 00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:54.559 Even sometimes the internet, you know, you watched the evolution of Sabbath, right? 00:15:54.600 --> 00:15:57.919 Pretty much from when I first started like that. 00:15:58.159 --> 00:15:59.759 Yeah. 00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:08.639 And then I never I didn't I knew a couple of names, like I was talking about my brother would fill me in on some stuff, but I didn't know there was for a minute a Jersey guy got the job. 00:16:09.519 --> 00:16:19.120 You know, if he was like, let's say King Regal and regular Ray Gillen, I think I didn't know that he was in bands like Quest and Harlot back in the day. 00:16:19.120 --> 00:16:24.320 When I started going shows like this, you know, the was six months and said, come on, King. 00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:27.399 And I was at his first show and I read that. 00:16:27.519 --> 00:16:31.039 Yeah, but that's awesome to see, to CDO. 00:16:31.039 --> 00:16:34.679 And then that was pretty cool, is that I'm a I'm a big Kiss fan. 00:16:34.679 --> 00:16:37.679 So when Eric Singer was part of that for a little while. 00:16:38.039 --> 00:16:39.559 So that was really cool. 00:16:39.559 --> 00:16:47.360 to intertwine your life experience with the pictures is a great marine story to tell it to show people. 00:16:47.679 --> 00:16:52.840 And it also, I believe, you know, selling pictures to like, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. 00:16:52.840 --> 00:16:55.840 Yes, that's one of the outlets that I work with. 00:16:55.840 --> 00:16:56.559 That's great. 00:16:56.559 --> 00:16:57.799 Yeah, that's also about that. 00:16:57.799 --> 00:16:58.480 That came about. 00:16:58.480 --> 00:17:05.160 It was I was working with a, editor on a book, a long time ago, over 20 years ago. 00:17:05.160 --> 00:17:09.200 And she said, hey, you know, one of my other clients is the Rock Roll Hall of Fame. 00:17:09.200 --> 00:17:13.240 And since you're a photographer for many years, you've shuttled genres of music. 00:17:13.559 --> 00:17:24.519 You know, why don't you, you know, stay in touch with me and I'll put you in touch with the people that need to look at photographs to put in the, the, the program or the television show. 00:17:24.759 --> 00:17:25.599 And I said, great. 00:17:25.599 --> 00:17:29.200 And so we've been working together over 20 years now. 00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:35.279 So I get all the I get all the, the, programs that they give out at the, the hall, over the event happens. 00:17:35.279 --> 00:17:45.200 So, yeah, sometimes my stuff ends up on the TV part of it, you know, maybe flash behind the screen when the guys, like, with black keys and, ducted, Steve Miller. 00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:51.279 I saw the photo for a guy who shot him in, like, 1972 or something like that. 00:17:51.480 --> 00:17:52.720 Wow. Yeah. 00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:54.759 So I like, you, like, hippie stuff. 00:17:54.759 --> 00:17:57.599 Yeah. And, that that was behind the screen. 00:17:57.599 --> 00:18:03.640 So I got, you know, some $100 for that photo, and I give, I don't give, like a 60% cut to the, photographer. 00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:13.960 And we get both our names at the end of the show, and, or could run in, like, the way you talk about the band, you know, they have, like, a little five minute behind the music. 00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:16.680 Sometimes the photos go in there. 00:18:16.680 --> 00:18:19.400 So let's talk about Allen for a second. 00:18:19.400 --> 00:18:19.680 Right. 00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:21.880 What's going on in your life? 00:18:21.880 --> 00:18:24.880 Right. You had a musical career. 00:18:25.079 --> 00:18:27.160 We picked up where we left off. 00:18:27.160 --> 00:18:29.440 Were you late 70s, early 80s. 00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:32.319 Talk about where where you were at in relative to music. 00:18:32.319 --> 00:18:34.319 Early 80s. Yeah. 00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:43.480 Well, I was just coming out of high school, and, I was in a band called prophecy that led me into a band called aggressor, and then eventually Hades. 00:18:43.480 --> 00:18:44.759 And then I made my first album. 00:18:44.759 --> 00:18:51.599 So I guess that's we did a 45 first, and it was like 1985 and, first record, like 86 and 87. 00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:58.279 So we started playing a lot of shows, and I kind of joined a band that already had it a buzz going on and a bunch of songs, and people knew about them and stuff. 00:18:58.279 --> 00:19:00.079 So I kind of got lucky that way. 00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:03.079 But that's where I was in the mid to early 80s, for sure. 00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:06.200 And I met, Alan through prophecy. 00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:08.119 I did their photos for them. 00:19:08.119 --> 00:19:12.759 So not only did you find him for this in 2021 or right. 00:19:13.119 --> 00:19:15.519 Yeah. We were the first band to pose for, like, a shoot. 00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:16.359 Yeah. Wow. 00:19:16.359 --> 00:19:21.400 But you guys had that action, and it was right in the middle for the town I grew up in as a child. 00:19:21.400 --> 00:19:24.200 And then I moved over to Bergenfield and then that started. 00:19:24.200 -->

00:19:26.200 I started my career at that. 00:19:26.200 --> 00:19:38.680 The origin story. Right now. So we, Do you guys, by any chance stay in contact all these years for doing anything with rock and roll or just friendship? 00:19:38.759 --> 00:19:44.920 And we kept we constantly ran into each other and we actually ran into each other in California in vacation together for a few days. 00:19:44.920 --> 00:19:46.640 So that's totally by accident. 00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:48.200 Don't a that's cool. 00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:50.160 But yeah, I would see every single show I went to. 00:19:50.160 --> 00:19:51.880 Frank was in the picture, you know. 00:19:51.880 --> 00:19:53.720 Oh, okay. Oh, absolutely. 00:19:53.720 --> 00:19:55.839 So now you're shooting him in. 00:19:55.839 --> 00:19:58.839 What would you, would you say this is the first time? 00:19:58.839 --> 00:19:59.480 Yeah. 00:19:59.480 --> 00:20:03.640 I was in 1982, 83, maybe. 00:20:04.119 --> 00:20:05.799 Oh that's right. Yeah, yeah. 00:20:05.799 --> 00:20:06.920 The 83. 00:20:06.920 --> 00:20:10.200 And you're in prophecy. Prophecy 9480. 00:20:10.400 --> 00:20:11.119 Okay. 00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:16.240 So now, a couple of whatever the time stamp would be a year or two later, you're in 80. 00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:17.759 Yep. Like. 00:20:17.759 --> 00:20:18.279 All right. 00:20:18.279 --> 00:20:21.759 So now he's pretty big in love locally. 00:20:21.759 --> 00:20:23.160 Yeah. Like you guys were really big. 00:20:23.160 --> 00:20:27.839 And our claim to fame, we got to open up with you, I think a couple times. 00:20:27.880 --> 00:20:30.519 The record with the rec room. 00:20:27.880 --> 00:20:30.519 Nice. Nice. Miss that place. 00:20:30.519 --> 00:20:31.359 Yeah. Yeah. 00:20:31.359 --> 00:20:32.799 Nice there a lot. 00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:33.160 Yeah. 00:20:33.160 --> 00:20:35.640 But, I was a deejay there on Thursdays. There. 00:20:35.640 --> 00:20:37.519 Yeah. Yeah, that. 00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:37.880 I'm sorry. 00:20:37.880 --> 00:20:40.519 I've got Hades that I shot at the rec room. 00:20:40.519 --> 00:20:43.319 We'll be at our, believe our next book. Yep. 00:20:43.319 --> 00:20:44.319 Yeah. Oh, yes. 00:20:44.319 --> 00:20:46.119 Because this is a series. Yeah. Right. 00:20:46.119 --> 00:20:54.359 So this is 69 to 86, and then we're gonna go at 86 to 87, oh four, 87 to oh four. 00:20:54.359 --> 00:20:57.000 Yeah. So that's like everything that's the book. Yeah. 00:20:57.000 --> 00:21:00.759 The final volume is 2005 to 2021. 00:21:01.599 --> 00:21:04.039 That's awesome. That's really cool. 00:21:04.039 --> 00:21:07.039 Just talking about opening up for Hades at the rec room. 00:21:07.160 --> 00:21:10.920 Like, to us, it was it was an absolute huge deal, you know? 00:21:10.920 --> 00:21:19.440 No, I mean, when you guys, when you guys were all there was like, okay, this is this is this is a band where this is a real band toward the end, you know, success albums. 00:21:20.480 --> 00:21:21.880 They said they were like, get the fuck off. 00:21:21.880 --> 00:21:24.480 You know? I was like, all right, all right, all right. 00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:26.839 So just, And then what? 00:21:26.839 --> 00:21:28.240 I heard you sing. 00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:29.319 I just wanted to quit music. 00:21:29.319 --> 00:21:32.680 I was like, okay, so I don't have any illusions. 00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:35.480 Ever try to sing half as good as this guy? 00:21:35.480 --> 00:21:37.400 I think I know, but that was the feeling. 00:21:37.400 --> 00:21:49.680 But that was that was like, kind of like, we were young in our venture of of music, but it was like, wow, this is, this was, this is a band that that we looked up to every time a couple, maybe two, three times we opened up for you guys there. 00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:50.960 Always great. 00:21:50.960 --> 00:21:52.920 And guys always packed the plays or just said it was. 00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:53.880 It was a fun vibe. 00:21:53.880 --> 00:21:57.599 That's what I remember about those times, because we were just kind of getting started. 00:21:55.039 --> 00:21:57.599 That's cool, that's cool. 00:21:57.599 --> 00:22:02.880 Yeah, that had to be probably like around 2003 or what? 00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:04.319 No one. 00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:07.200 It's probably more like 99, 2000. 00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:12.240 I was I was getting it right into digital and there's 1000, 2001. 00:22:12.559 --> 00:22:13.319 Yeah, yeah. 00:22:13.319 --> 00:22:16.079 Because we did Sage's, we had a metal deal with kind of out of nowhere. 00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:18.160 So we did Save yourself in 98. 00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:21.799 Downside 99, I believe in 2000 we'll put out a damnation. 00:22:22.119 --> 00:22:22.440 Okay. 00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:25.160 So it would have been probably around I think it was the. Yeah. 00:22:25.160 --> 00:22:29.920 Yeah, I remember, reading, I guess, where you guys were. 00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:30.880 Hades called it quits. 00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:33.880 I remember reading of I said to you this was back. 00:22:34.039 --> 00:22:34.519 What? You're in it. 00:22:34.519 --> 00:22:38.200 Did he stop playing, like, like the first time? 00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:43.359 Yeah, I had no, I guess the final time, I guess, I guess it would have been in early 2000. 00:22:43.839 --> 00:22:46.160 It was, in one of the magazines. 00:22:46.160 --> 00:22:50.799 I was, I forgot this is what it says. 00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:59.319 Hades hangs up the pitchfork, and it was, like, very, like, funny the way the band Metal Maniacs maybe very, very sad. 00:22:59.319 --> 00:23:01.000 That sounds about right. 00:23:01.000 --> 00:23:10.599 But I, I want to go back to the clubs like, what what was the vibe back then saying, give me, like, 72, 73. 00:23:10.599 --> 00:23:11.920 You're there. 00:23:11.920 --> 00:23:13.200 People are. 00:23:13.200 --> 00:23:16.000 Well, like, what was a rock vibe back then? 00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:18.680 I see celebration, I see

celebration in the blood. 00:23:18.680 --> 00:23:20.440 So friends. Yeah. So no. 00:23:20.440 --> 00:23:27.559 So basically, like, I was a little young to really appreciate that scene at that early time in the early 70s. 00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:38.039 So, you know, I would be watching a lot of the, the music I like that was on TV at the time now versus rock concert in concert, you know, even Ed Sullivan or whatever. 00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:58.039 But, you know, so I was getting prepared, I guess, to want to go see music and and being a photographer in my mind, like, I have the confidence to want to photograph music and be a part of, like a new scene that, you know, was, explored by a lot of the people that I was hanging out with. 00:23:58.279 --> 00:24:06.160 And I and I just, took it very, you know, naturally, when I started to, photograph any of the shows I was able to get to. 00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:10.440 And, I loved it because they were always out there. 00:24:10.440 --> 00:24:12.400 There were always coming week after week. 00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:27.720 And even in the clubs, I noticed, you know, when I was picked up, maybe like the newspapers, they would have like, so many more clubs to go to that, you know, people knew that they could make money on liquor and alcohol and they knew there was a big drinking, you know, scene. 00:24:27.839 --> 00:24:30.480 So a lot of people said, you know what? 00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:31.400 There's an empty space. 00:24:31.400 --> 00:24:33.400 I want to make that into a bar, you know? 00:24:33.400 --> 00:24:35.680 And the next thing you know, someone else said, hey, you know what? 00:24:35.680 --> 00:24:37.480 I might do the same thing over in this town. 00:24:37.480 --> 00:24:42.759 And then by year, you know, it just happened and started to sprinkle out all over the state. 00:24:42.759 --> 00:24:44.839 I don't forget drinking age was 18. 00:24:44.839 --> 00:24:47.200 Yeah. I wanted to bring that up. 00:24:44.839 --> 00:24:47.200 Thank you. 00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:49.279 Do you think that helped a lot? Yeah. 00:24:50.759 --> 00:24:54.599 Are you honestly part of the Jersey scene was run by the mob. 00:24:54.599 --> 00:24:55.640 You know, some of the. 00:24:55.640 --> 00:24:55.799 Yeah. 00:24:55.799 --> 00:25:00.799 You know, you know, the bars and bars would stay open till like three, four in the morning. 00:25:01.240 --> 00:25:09.160 You know, bands would have to play like 4 or 5, sets a night back in those days, you know, they wanted to keep people out there drinking there. 00:25:09.160 --> 00:25:14.079 You know, there wasn't a big the DWI laws, you know, so, yeah, they figured it out. 00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:17.079 You know, let's just keep serving them and that's what. 00:25:17.079 --> 00:25:20.079 And that's why the places kept going. 00:25:20.200 --> 00:25:39.160 Because they were able to make so much money, you know, the drinking and you know, and then the band started to get really, really good, you know, you know, starting the scene started exploding and some of these bands started to take off on their own direction and end up into a bigger, acts and, cover acts, tribute acts like a lot of these. 00:25:39.160 --> 00:25:49.279 They're doing, like, set 4 or 5 sets a night and then, like, they're doing their, their, their, their Sabbath, their trip decided that night they're doing their tribute to kiss that night. 00:25:49.279 --> 00:25:50.279 Yeah. You know. 00:25:50.279 --> 00:25:50.480 Yeah. 00:25:50.480 --> 00:25:56.480 Tribute bands as far back as, like, you know, them at seven, you know, and they were making, like, making good money, like they were doing this probably. 00:25:57.039 --> 00:26:12.480 I mean, they probably that day jobs, but I'm sure that they were you know, there were certain bands that actually moved from down south, up north to just play because they knew the scene was so great that they would get money all the time by playing different clubs, you know. 00:26:12.480 --> 00:26:14.160 Yeah, we got this cafe. Mr.. 00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:16.279 Right here, the playing that night there. 00:26:16.279 --> 00:26:22.799 And they just figured, you know, we'll just rent a house, live, you know, live together and then make money together. 00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:23.799 And that's what they did. 00:26:23.799 --> 00:26:25.880 And a lot of them didn't work day jobs, believe it or not. 00:26:25.880 --> 00:26:29.160 But we just interviewed Ken Neal, the original bass player for Twisted Sister. 00:26:29.160 --> 00:26:29.480 Okay. 00:26:29.480 --> 00:26:35.000 Those guys were actually back then, like Frank said, playing a lot, but they didn't have jobs. 00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:36.279 You know, that's how they made the money. 00:26:36.279 --> 00:26:40.839 Another weird question that we asked Twisted Sister back then. 00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:42.920 Yeah, no, we fuck with them. 00:26:42.920 --> 00:26:50.160 The way they look, the way they look, they look huge on stage, I know, but like oh yeah, man, oh man. 00:26:50.599 --> 00:26:53.599 Like like, they were some ugly girls. 00:26:53.839 --> 00:26:54.240 Yeah. 00:26:55.359 --> 00:26:57.960 But like, you know, like deciding to say, like, he's cool as fuck. 00:26:57.960 --> 00:27:01.279 Like just in what he stands for, how intelligent he is. 00:27:01.279 --> 00:27:01.839 Number one. 00:27:01.839 --> 00:27:23.319 Yeah, but the way they look, I understand it was like that glam rock look, but, like, they were like a biker gang when they got off that stage or wore the same, you know, cut off jackets, patches, you know, just like a biker group would really, you know, and, they, it's, you know, they're all like tall guys, you know, so, you know, they look, you know, like they were always hitting the ceiling. 00:27:23.319 --> 00:27:23.559 Yeah. 00:27:23.559 --> 00:27:32.319 The big clubs I always go to see, you know, in fact, in some of my photos you can see like the, like, almost touching the ceiling,

you know, and said I was sitting right there. 00:27:32.319 --> 00:27:34.680 It's right above them, you know, their platforms on too. 00:27:34.680 --> 00:27:35.720 Yeah. 00:27:35.720 --> 00:27:38.720 That, Jesus Christ, I'm sure that. 00:27:38.759 --> 00:27:44.680 Yeah, that we would have made he went from platforms so high heels, you know, that was high enough to give more of a show that. 00:27:44.680 --> 00:27:44.960 Oh, God. 00:27:46.480 --> 00:27:50.599 So let's talk about okay, you guys talk, get together. 00:27:50.759 --> 00:27:55.599 We're going to read a book, talk about that process of putting butts in here. 00:27:56.240 --> 00:28:00.039 You know, and then on paper, you know, pictures obviously. 00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:03.799 So we talked about it and he made money as an editor. 00:28:04.039 --> 00:28:08.720 So I said, okay, we'll have you start doing the editing for the stories that we write. 00:28:08.720 --> 00:28:13.119 You know, and I'm kind of like writing notes and then putting them into for, you know, sentence form. 00:28:13.119 --> 00:28:17.599 And then it's given to him and then he's doing his magic to get everything, you know, just right. 00:28:17.960 --> 00:28:27.000 And he was writing for years, you know, and, so I figured it would be a great pair to do this, book. 00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:33.359 And it did so well, Allen, you know, he's been around for many years, you know, writing and singing and stuff. 00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:40.519 So he was the perfect person to talk from, from the stage point of view and my my point of view from the from the pit. 00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:42.799 Yeah. Literally perfect person. Right. 00:28:42.799 --> 00:28:49.000 You've played all the clubs at the clubs you wrote for Stepping Out, which was like the Bible around back in the day. Three years. 00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:50.119 Yeah, I love that. 00:28:50.119 --> 00:28:52.319 I that was my there's a good run. 00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:52.599 Yeah. 00:28:52.599 --> 00:29:00.960 You going going to I used to deliver pizza for many years and I use it on my way of stepping out. 00:29:01.160 --> 00:29:05.759 Where are we not playing this weekend right now? But like, that was like, you know. 00:29:05.759 --> 00:29:08.759 Yeah, I'm probably the guy who delivered it wherever you picked it up. 00:29:09.759 --> 00:29:12.359 So there's a little section in the back that. 00:29:12.359 --> 00:29:13.839 Thank you. Right. 00:29:13.839 --> 00:29:17.400 We both I think both of you thanked your family. 00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:19.079 Your family. Right. 00:29:19.079 --> 00:29:21.039 Because it took a lot of time. 00:29:21.039 --> 00:29:23.759 Oh, definitely. 00:29:21.039 --> 00:29:26.759 You know, you know, like, how how are those sessions between you two coming up? 00:29:26.920 --> 00:29:32.160 You know, what are a few hours every week, you know, and go through the process, you know, page by page. 00:29:32.160 --> 00:29:34.440 Sometimes we'd skip some pages, you know, here we go. 00:29:34.440 --> 00:29:36.920 I got a great story, you know, put that together. 00:29:36.920 --> 00:29:44.319 Well with the photos that I had, I try to make sure that all the stories had some kind of image to, to match what I was talking about. 00:29:44.359 --> 00:29:44.720 Yeah. 00:29:44.720 --> 00:29:50.839 And then, you know, we found, like, Vance had some fliers, you know, and collectors had some. 00:29:51.119 --> 00:30:03.079 We get, images from different sources, but, you know, see here in new Jersey, you know, to make it authentic, how much stuff did it look like? 00:30:03.079 --> 00:30:07.519 Or what did it was that was there, like, I think we really trimmed it down. 00:30:07.640 --> 00:30:10.039 You know, we cherry picked everything. 00:30:07.640 --> 00:30:10.039 Yeah. 00:30:10.039 --> 00:30:11.839 You know, make sure that that, like, you know. 00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:15.640 Hey, do you think this photo really looks worthwhile for this page? 00:30:15.640 --> 00:30:25.240 You know, like, sometimes we'd go back and forth, you know, you know, just on the creative end of it, just making sure that it looked way different than any other book I've ever seen. 00:30:25.240 --> 00:30:29.839 And plus, you know, I'm not gonna I'm not reading books while I'm making this book. 00:30:29.839 --> 00:30:35.400 You know, it's just all to our heads, you know, and just going right into the computer and seeing how each page looks. 00:30:35.400 --> 00:30:41.920 And, you know, he's great at what he does, you know, putting the, you know, the book together, you know, and making sure that everything is nice and straight. 00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:44.079 You know, the bags look just right. 00:30:45.079 --> 00:30:45.920 It's beautiful. 00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:48.319 So you guys did a great job. 00:30:48.319 --> 00:30:51.400 There's there's one picture in there that I wanted to ask about. 00:30:51.400 --> 00:30:54.799 If you can give me more information, if there's any other stories there for there. 00:30:55.480 --> 00:30:59.200 As a little boy, my mom would take me back and forth to my grandmother's. 00:30:59.359 --> 00:31:02.519 She was on the border of the infield, and, East Orange. 00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:06.200 So we used to pass a place called the Dirt Club. 00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:06.799 All right. 00:31:06.799 --> 00:31:09.799 And every time I used to go to my mom, my. 00:31:10.039 --> 00:31:11.839 What's the dirt club? Right. 00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:14.359 That's a little plane. And my. 00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:14.359 I think I'm my brother. 00:31:14.359 --> 00:31:17.440 My dad was in the car one day and like, oh, that's a rock club. 00:31:17.799 --> 00:31:19.960 I was like, oh, cool. 00:31:19.960 --> 00:31:21.279 What do they do there? 00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:23.319 Yeah, the dirt club. Yeah. 00:31:23.319 --> 00:31:26.960 I don't know if there was a I did see a picture of it in here. 00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:27.440 Right. 00:31:27.440 --> 00:31:33.400 But I don't

know if there was much to tell about it, but could you give me some my own personal curiosity as you begin your life? 00:31:33.480 --> 00:31:35.839 Were you there? Did you go there a lot? 00:31:33.480 --> 00:31:35.839 Yeah, I went there. 00:31:35.839 --> 00:31:37.279 I went there a bunch of times. 00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:39.240 I knew Johnny Dirt. 00:31:39.240 --> 00:31:40.960 I was on the corner. 00:31:40.960 --> 00:31:44.960 Oh, yeah, that's Jack. Brother Johnny would actually. 00:31:44.960 --> 00:31:46.000 One day he came up to me. 00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:47.240 He goes, Frank, this is for you. 00:31:47.240 --> 00:31:53.240 And he gives me this bag of dirt, dirt club, you know, you know, and dayglo letters. 00:31:53.240 --> 00:31:56.240 And my sister went there once, and she got a tiny little bag. 00:31:56.599 --> 00:32:02.880 So I was thinking about putting that, like, in the next book, you know, a photo of that, along with photos that we have of Johnny hanging out. 00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:06.359 And I think one was with, Billy Monroe from the band Monroe. 00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:07.119 Okay. Yeah. 00:32:07.119 --> 00:32:17.640 Monroe was playing all over new Jersey back then, and they kind of like, you know, was just wanted to keep everything local with those guys, you know, for the time being. 00:32:17.640 --> 00:32:20.000 And, you know, I would run into them. 00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:26.400 But that club, you know, had different types of music, new wave, hardcore rock, heavy metal. 00:32:26.519 --> 00:32:28.279 I saw the band def play there. 00:32:28.279 --> 00:32:29.440 Okay. Well, yeah. 00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:29.839 Know. 00:32:29.839 --> 00:32:30.319 Yeah. 00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:34.759 And, so they're, I think they're going in our, our next signs as well. 00:32:34.759 --> 00:32:35.480 Yeah. That's. 00:32:35.480 --> 00:32:42.200 Oh. And so the aquarium the local people that you have probably all the time, they've always had it. 00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:44.359 They hosted some nights there. Okay. 00:32:44.359 --> 00:32:49.559 You know, so and it was really cool because it was right off the Garden State Parkway, you know, very convenient. 00:32:49.640 --> 00:32:50.319 Yeah. 00:32:50.319 --> 00:32:53.440 Would any bigger big acts go to that kind of. 00:32:53.480 --> 00:32:55.039 What was the venue like inside? 00:32:55.039 --> 00:32:56.720 I never really went to the club myself. 00:32:56.720 --> 00:33:03.240 Was it like, would you equate it to, it almost had like a Cbgb kind of vibe. 00:33:03.240 --> 00:33:03.599 Okay. 00:33:03.599 --> 00:33:08.799 But maybe a little bit more clean or not. And, and looking about, you know, great. 00:33:08.799 --> 00:33:10.480 And I think that band here. 00:33:10.480 --> 00:33:10.880 Yeah. 00:33:10.880 --> 00:33:18.279 Now we sort of like, you know, it was this kind of club where you bump into, like, different rockers, you know, people and see the wall. 00:33:18.559 --> 00:33:19.400 Oh, it was cool. 00:33:19.400 -->

00:33:22.400 Another cool, another cool venue in there. 00:33:24.039 --> 00:33:29.359 I had the pleasure under age come to the studio one to see Ace Fraley. 00:33:29.880 --> 00:33:37.039 Oh. And one of the, one of the coolest things was that I was my brother and I pretty much no, no Rose we were up front. 00:33:37.559 --> 00:33:40.279 You know, you can pretty much touch with Les Paul. 00:33:40.279 --> 00:33:44.640 And the best thing was he came out the band the smoke you know. 00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:49.039 Right. Yeah. Looks over and goes where are we. 00:33:49.039 --> 00:33:50.519 Sit down. 00:33:50.519 --> 00:33:54.000 And they were like, North New Jersey. You. 00:33:55.279 --> 00:33:56.799 Some people think it's Brattleboro. 00:33:56.799 --> 00:33:59.079 Yeah, yeah, it's it's north newer. 00:33:59.079 --> 00:33:59.480 Yeah. 00:33:59.480 --> 00:34:03.680 So then we we grew up more going to tequila Joe's right. 00:34:03.759 --> 00:34:06.480 It turned into tequila Joe's right afterwards. 00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:09.320 But studio one. 00:34:09.320 --> 00:34:12.320 You guys have any stories about studio One? 00:34:12.559 --> 00:34:14.840 And then we forget lugging the gear up and down those stairs. 00:34:14.840 --> 00:34:18.119 That was three, two, three levels, right? 00:34:18.320 --> 00:34:20.119 A lot of good shows there. That for sure. 00:34:20.119 --> 00:34:20.519 Okay. 00:34:20.519 --> 00:34:24.000 Somebodys car always got broken into a car for the course. 00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:31.800 You know, my fortunately was safe through the years where you might got broken into in New York, you know, at like Lemoore East and then Lemoore Point. 00:34:32.440 --> 00:34:39.079 But yeah, I used to go there and I remember Patricia, you know, taking a doing this, a lot of the promoting there. 00:34:39.079 --> 00:34:44.840 Dan Davis, you know, you know, some bands like Fear Factory, trickster. 00:34:45.400 --> 00:34:48.320 Yeah, they were new Jersey band. 00:34:48.320 --> 00:34:49.239 Yeah. Right. Yeah. 00:34:49.239 --> 00:34:50.079 Yep, yep. 00:34:50.079 --> 00:34:50.360 Yeah. 00:34:50.360 --> 00:34:52.159 Did you guys play with that at all? 00:34:52.159 --> 00:34:54.920 I was there playing with trickster. There a different kind of band. 00:34:54.920 --> 00:34:58.519 They were, they were a Christian band all the way back home safe. 00:34:59.639 --> 00:35:02.840 But, they wouldn't turn a club back in the early days, just like us. 00:35:02.840 --> 00:35:06.840 You know, they became really big tricks, I think. 00:35:06.840 --> 00:35:09.480 Triggered by the overdub, possibly over the fur kiss. 00:35:09.480 --> 00:35:11.000 They did? Yeah. 00:35:11.000 --> 00:35:14.800 That's, my my first show was 1990 Nassau Coliseum. 00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:16.719 Hot in the shade tour. 00:35:16.719 --> 00:35:19.239 Okay, so that was. I was like, ten. 00:35:19.239 --> 00:35:20.119 Yeah, 11. 00:35:20.119 --> 00:35:25.480 You know, and then my second show shortly after that was you

can maybe help me out. 00:35:25.519 --> 00:35:27.920 What was the theater connected to? 00:35:27.920 --> 00:35:31.960 Madison Square Garden itself saying get a felt for form. 00:35:32.079 --> 00:35:36.079 And then it became, a couple other names since then. 00:35:36.159 --> 00:35:39.159 All right. That's theater was, ozone. 00:35:39.280 --> 00:35:44.199 Oh. With so 90, I don't know what tour that would have been, but like, Zach Wilde was very skinny. 00:35:44.199 --> 00:35:46.079 Wow. And wearing, like, bellbottoms. Yeah. 00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:49.159 You know, like, he wasn't that biker biker guy. 00:35:49.159 --> 00:35:51.079 Friends got shots of him in that era. 00:35:51.079 --> 00:35:53.480 Oh, they're so funny. 00:35:53.480 --> 00:35:55.159 Like like I saw that. 00:35:55.159 --> 00:35:56.920 I was like, wow. 00:35:56.920 --> 00:35:59.559 Like, life is just different, you know, ten, 11 years old. 00:35:59.559 --> 00:36:00.639 Like, what is this? 00:36:00.639 --> 00:36:02.239 Which that's what I'm just. 00:36:02.239 --> 00:36:04.119 I'm assuming what you felt. 00:36:04.119 --> 00:36:06.280 I went to the Hot and Shade party. 00:36:06.280 --> 00:36:08.360 Check out this had. Yeah, it had a dance there. 00:36:08.360 --> 00:36:10.239 The Charlie O's after the garden show. 00:36:10.239 --> 00:36:12.079 Really? Yeah. The same tour. 00:36:12.079 --> 00:36:12.840 Good times. 00:36:12.840 --> 00:36:15.800 Yeah, I got it was close dancing, like half naked. 00:36:15.800 --> 00:36:16.400 Yeah. 00:36:16.400 --> 00:36:26.639 Jim put his mouth over the top of the cake, you know, because it was a pyramid, you know, I got a nice shot of that, you know, it was just like rotary, you know, and, like, guys from Skid Row were there. 00:36:27.079 --> 00:36:34.840 Yeah, we were all everybody's girlfriends, you know, there were dancers, you know, got photos of them, like, you can see right through. 00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:36.079 Yeah, it was great. 00:36:36.079 --> 00:36:36.559 Yeah. 00:36:36.559 --> 00:36:42.400 We have such, an affinity and love for these clubs, right, right. 00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:43.039 The clubs. 00:36:43.039 --> 00:36:48.000 So when we got into it early 2000, we played a lot of the cool clubs. 00:36:48.280 --> 00:36:51.280 But wait, when they're way past their prime, when there wasn't a scene there. But. 00:36:51.280 --> 00:36:54.760 Yeah, but Cbgb was at the underground. 00:36:54.760 --> 00:36:55.559 Continental. 00:36:55.559 --> 00:36:58.480 Like the city clubs, all the cool places. 00:36:58.480 --> 00:37:02.960 But when they really work for it, yeah, yeah, they kind of became popular. 00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:04.239 Like the later on. 00:37:04.239 --> 00:37:06.559 Yeah. Jersey clubs kind of simmer down a bit. Yeah. 00:37:06.559 --> 00:37:09.599 There were it's like oh strawberry for the Yankees. 00:37:09.960 --> 00:37:10.800 Yeah. 00:37:10.800 --> 00:37:13.400 There's hum. Yeah. 00:37:13.400 --> 00:37:22.119 But in the book seeing these, these these Jersey clubs were writing like mothers and like places like that. 00:37:22.360 --> 00:37:24.239 But isn't that it? 00:37:24.239 --> 00:37:28.519 I echo Archie's sentiment of I was a jealous that. 00:37:28.519 --> 00:37:30.920 Oh, my God, this would have been this would be great. 00:37:30.920 --> 00:37:33.280 You know, playing in that time. Right. 00:37:33.280 --> 00:37:38.800 And what this book, how you guys did it, is it fits together perfectly. 00:37:38.800 --> 00:37:46.719 It's like it's it's almost like a, a novel and a photo essay all together, to me. 00:37:46.719 --> 00:37:47.360 And so this will be. 00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:50.480 It'll sound like a weird, comparison. 00:37:50.719 --> 00:37:52.840 This was like The Sopranos for me. 00:37:52.840 --> 00:37:54.159 And I'll tell you what. Wow. 00:37:54.159 --> 00:37:57.159 A Jersey kid, right? 00:37:57.199 --> 00:37:59.599 I saw it. Watch The Sopranos or nobody's going to get this. 00:37:59.599 --> 00:38:01.280 Oh, people in Jersey are going to get this. 00:38:01.280 --> 00:38:03.639 No, that translates all over the world. 00:38:03.639 --> 00:38:06.199 All over the country. And that's not. 00:38:03.639 --> 00:38:06.199 And that's what this book is to me. 00:38:06.199 --> 00:38:08.000 Wow. It's about Jersey. 00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:09.760 But it's so relatable. 00:38:09.760 --> 00:38:14.920 And the iconic places it translates across the country that that that's my thought. 00:38:14.920 --> 00:38:17.480 That's cool. Dude. 00:38:14.920 --> 00:38:17.480 I'm a huge Sopranos fan. 00:38:17.480 --> 00:38:17.719 Yeah. 00:38:17.719 --> 00:38:19.960 So I can understand where you're coming from here, you know? 00:38:19.960 --> 00:38:37.639 And like, I put a lot of time and effort through the years photographing, collecting stories in my head, you know, just writing notes down, making sure I had everything, you know, for this book, you know, to make it the best it could be. 00:38:38.079 --> 00:38:44.360 Because no one out there was doing a book similar to this around the country that I know, you know. 00:38:44.480 --> 00:38:46.159 And so I figured, you know what? 00:38:46.159 --> 00:38:50.119 This is really pack of points with this one, you know, and that's what we did. 00:38:50.239 --> 00:38:59.000 You know, we made sure that I can tell you see, it as much as it comes across it, if it seems like everything had a purpose and and an impact. 00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:01.599 Right. Each story. Cool. 00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:01.599 Thank you. Thanks. 00:39:01.599 --> 00:39:02.559 What's great? 00:39:02.559 --> 00:39:05.000 One more, maybe tell. 00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:06.880 We can get from you. 00:39:06.880 --> 00:39:13.239 One of the last stories I read last night before I went to bed was Metallica coming to Old Bridge? 00:39:13.239 --> 00:39:20.800 Okay, like, if you're kind of put it, if you're, like, a big Metallica fan, you might know a lot about them. 00:39:21.320 --> 00:39:27.039 But this was like their

first time, I believe, possibly leaving home. 00:39:27.039 --> 00:39:27.599 Right. 00:39:27.599 --> 00:39:30.280 Coming to new Jersey, a fucking old bridge. 00:39:30.280 --> 00:39:31.199 Yeah. Right. 00:39:31.199 --> 00:39:31.559 Yeah. 00:39:31.559 --> 00:39:34.559 And shacking up with anthrax in the city. 00:39:34.880 --> 00:39:38.079 Please give us any type of information or any type of. 00:39:38.159 --> 00:39:40.880 How was it back then? 00:39:38.159 --> 00:39:42.719 Which of those guys are photographing those guys, seeing those guys at that time? 00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:53.920 It was their first trip to the East Coast and they heard about Johnny Z, and they wanted Johnny Z, heard of them, and they wanted to kind of like, you know, meet up and see some of their shows live. 00:39:53.920 --> 00:39:58.599 So they kind of made arrangements to play a couple, have them play a few places close by. 00:39:59.159 --> 00:40:10.639 And, the old Bridge Militia had started, which was a bunch of guys and girls from, the old bridge area, and they got a group together of people that would help out bands when they came by. 00:40:11.039 --> 00:40:22.519 And when the guys from, Metallica came to the old bridge area and they were right there to help them, you know, hey, come on, stay over our house. 00:40:20.159 --> 00:40:22.519 Yeah. So. 00:40:22.519 --> 00:40:26.599 And, you know, PA, you hang out, you know, beach guys, you know, set up. 00:40:26.639 --> 00:40:27.920 Yeah, that's what they did. 00:40:27.920 --> 00:40:34.519 You know, they got those guys where they told Johnny all about them, you know, and they were having fun, you know, just with them. 00:40:34.519 --> 00:40:41.239 And then the next thing you know, they're they're starting to play a couple shows and you know, showcasing to everybody in the area what talent they had. 00:40:41.239 --> 00:40:45.159 But yeah, where do they play. 00:40:45.159 --> 00:40:51.760 Like their first little, a story I read it had, one guitar. 00:40:51.920 --> 00:41:02.280 It was like a that you get guys, like, partying somewhere at the house, or maybe there was like some venue, but there was like one guitar and Mustaine and Hetfield were like, kind of fighting about who's gonna play guitar, but that's the in the metal house. 00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:05.280 Yeah. Okay. Yes. All right. 00:41:05.280 --> 00:41:12.800 And were you, were you there for that one and you were telling the story, but, no, but we were told if I guys at all. 00:41:12.840 --> 00:41:14.480 Okay, that were there. All right. 00:41:14.480 --> 00:41:18.320 And then how about what was the first time you saw Metallica? 00:41:18.320 --> 00:41:28.960 I saw Metallica on April 8th, 1983, at the Paramount Theater in Staten Island, when it was, the, it was, Metallica, the Rods and Vandenberg. 00:41:30.199 --> 00:41:35.960 And then the following night they played the same, same show over at L'Amour in Brooklyn. 00:41:36.039 --> 00:41:45.159 And then after that, that was,

a few days later, that's when, Dave, you know, was fired and, brought in Kirk right there after. 00:41:45.440 --> 00:41:49.679 And they started doing a lot of the smaller club shows, but in, in new Jersey. 00:41:49.800 --> 00:41:52.519 Yeah. And that's, you know, where the old bridge militia come in. 00:41:52.519 --> 00:41:58.480 And they also it's like like you show up pictures and look how they're playing South River, new Jersey, South American church, right. 00:41:58.519 --> 00:42:00.719 But yet live there. 00:41:58.519 --> 00:42:00.719 There was nothing down there. Yeah. 00:42:00.719 --> 00:42:02.960 Where do they played? South at the union. 00:42:00.719 --> 00:42:02.960 Yeah. 00:42:02.960 --> 00:42:12.159 I think you can check like, that and then fast forward to how many years later they're playing, see at MetLife Stadium. 00:42:12.159 --> 00:42:12.400 Yeah. 00:42:12.400 --> 00:42:14.719 Two nights not no repeat songs. 00:42:14.719 --> 00:42:16.400 Yeah, yeah. And I was it, I believe it. 00:42:16.400 --> 00:42:18.960 I was in the snake pit as well. 00:42:18.960 --> 00:42:22.599 So that so your career and it's not stopping I don't know. 00:42:22.599 --> 00:42:23.199 You're not at all. 00:42:23.199 --> 00:42:25.599 So your career has lasted a long time. 00:42:25.599 --> 00:42:26.719 Yes. 50 years. 00:42:26.719 --> 00:42:30.480 Both of you get to enjoy a lot of metal history in new Jersey. Yep. 00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:30.639 Yeah. 00:42:30.639 --> 00:42:34.960 And and now we're making a no budget documentary film called Jersey metal. 00:42:34.960 --> 00:42:37.079 Also on making the second book. 00:42:37.079 --> 00:42:39.039 And you guys are part of it now. Awesome. 00:42:39.039 --> 00:42:40.280 Yeah, I very cool. 00:42:40.280 --> 00:42:45.840 I love that, from two schmucks from new Jersey that have played some of these clubs. 00:42:45.880 --> 00:42:50.440 We played members of the bartender there. You did you break your ankles? 00:42:50.440 --> 00:42:52.320 I'm off the stage. I jumped off the stage. 00:42:52.320 --> 00:42:56.480 Yeah, yeah, I think it's a nice thing he's broke his ankle. 00:42:56.519 --> 00:42:58.880 We left our banner. 00:42:56.519 --> 00:42:58.880 There was a fucked up night. 00:42:58.880 --> 00:43:00.880 Oh, man, we got to play. 00:43:00.880 --> 00:43:02.000 I got up a rock. 00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:04.239 I got a gig at from. 00:43:04.239 --> 00:43:05.840 This is. This is insane. 00:43:05.840 --> 00:43:07.239 It was a Monday night. 00:43:07.239 --> 00:43:09.039 I'm like, it's the city. This kind of. 00:43:09.039 --> 00:43:10.480 It's like open mic night. 00:43:10.480 --> 00:43:12.280 I'm working on stage. 00:43:12.280 --> 00:43:15.039 We get there, we start putting the banner up. 00:43:15.039 --> 00:43:18.039 The sound guy goes, get your fucking banner off that. 00:43:19.360 --> 00:43:19.880 Okay. 00:43:19.880 --> 00:43:22.119 Yeah, I thought it was like a vent or something in the banner. 00:43:22.119 --> 00:43:23.199 Whatever.

Right. 00:43:23.199 --> 00:43:29.440 So we go on. There was a shoot once again, the bartender there, his girlfriend, maybe a couple. 00:43:29.760 --> 00:43:30.719 We played our set. 00:43:30.719 --> 00:43:32.920 We played like it was packed. 00:43:30.719 --> 00:43:32.920 We had a great time. 00:43:32.920 --> 00:43:34.239 We got to play CBGB's. 00:43:34.239 --> 00:43:36.960 We took a piss in the famous bathroom. 00:43:34.239 --> 00:43:36.960 We did. 00:43:36.960 --> 00:43:39.760 So we got off stage and it was like. 00:43:39.760 --> 00:43:42.199 Like a fucking movie. Yeah. 00:43:42.199 --> 00:43:44.440 Come on in there. Off stage. 00:43:44.440 --> 00:43:47.440 Let's go off on the fucking club. 00:43:44.440 --> 00:43:47.440 But like. 00:43:47.559 --> 00:43:49.719 But people start to come in. I'm like, what the fuck with it? 00:43:49.719 --> 00:43:51.039 All right, what do you say? 00:43:51.039 --> 00:43:52.360 What do you say on Monday night? 00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:55.079 You're doing much like a Monday afternoon. 00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:55.079 That's the. 00:43:55.079 --> 00:43:57.199 00 when we got the place. 00:43:57.199 --> 00:43:59.440 Yeah, yeah. Let's go. We got to play. 00:43:59.440 --> 00:44:02.000 We got to play all bridge right before they closed. 00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:04.119 Okay. So that was cool. Yeah. 00:44:04.119 --> 00:44:05.679 Sorry, sorry. Yes. Burchill. 00:44:05.679 --> 00:44:07.119 Right before they closed right now. 00:44:07.119 --> 00:44:11.199 So we, we we got to experience images at Fairview. 00:44:11.840 --> 00:44:15.880 Out plays a lot and some of those show they'll be our next book. 00:44:16.199 --> 00:44:17.960 Yeah. Awesome. We can't wait. 00:44:19.239 --> 00:44:21.039 Thank you so much for here. 00:44:21.039 --> 00:44:21.519 Thank you. Guys. 00:44:21.519 --> 00:44:25.159 So we want you out again for the next book tour release. 00:44:25.159 --> 00:44:27.960 Tell everybody where they can get this book. 00:44:27.960 --> 00:44:28.280 Sure. 00:44:28.280 --> 00:44:29.960 Jersey man on Booking.com. 00:44:29.960 --> 00:44:32.079 And we got a ton of merch, too. 00:44:32.079 --> 00:44:33.880 That's right. Awesome. Cool. 00:44:33.880 --> 00:44:35.880 Frank White, Alan Tokyo. 00:44:35.880 --> 00:44:37.159 Everyone out there. 00:44:37.159 --> 00:44:41.199 Merck. Music nerds, get this book. 00:44:41.199 --> 00:44:44.159 Go. Thanks, boys. All right. 00:44:41.199 --> 00:44:44.159 Thank you guys. 00:44:44.159 --> 00:44:45.280 That's also very cool. 00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:53.280 Awesome, If you just saw us talking to Frank and al from Jersey metal, you're sipping on a clubbing kettle. 00:44:53.639 --> 00:44:57.760 You have your foot all the way down on the gas pedal, and you want the best in life. 00:44:57.760 --> 00:45:00.159 You should never settle. 00:45:00.159 --> 00:45:01.119 Then you just watch. 00:45:01.119 --> 00:45:02.559 Not these two fucking guys. 00:45:02.559 --> 00:45:05.559 Podcast. We. 00:45:07.360 --> 00:45:12.840 I just want to say thank you so much to Frank white and Alan, you all for coming down. Jersey metal book. 00:45:12.840 --> 00:45:15.639 Please go get their book and support. 00:45:15.639 --> 00:45:18.159 The book is phenomenal for music nerds like us. 00:45:18.159 --> 00:45:21.039 You're going to enjoy new Jersey local metal. 00:45:21.039 --> 00:45:24.840 And even if you're not a music nerd and you're from Jersey or you're just. 00:45:24.840 --> 00:45:27.840 That's a band's support. Get the book. 00:45:28.039 --> 00:45:35.960 And I also want to say thank you so much to Blank Space Studios in Midland Park, new Jersey for having us blank space, that studio for all your rental needs. 00:45:36.199 --> 00:45:39.000 Check them out and, enjoy. 00:45:43.800 --> 00:45:46.599 too much of a shadow on the nothing but your nuts here. 00:45:46.599 --> 00:45:48.639 Whatever the fuck is in your pocket. 00:45:48.639 --> 00:45:50.159 Right? Whatever's in your pocket. 00:45:50.159 --> 00:45:51.199 This. Yeah. Oh. 00:45:51.199 --> 00:45:54.199 My dick. Okay. You got a square dick? 00:45:54.519 --> 00:45:57.519 What do Michael Hutchence. 00:45:58.119 --> 00:45:59.760 Right. Yeah. 00:45:59.760 --> 00:46:00.400 Okay. 00:46:00.400 --> 00:46:02.199 What's your Michael Hutchence from? 00:46:02.199 --> 00:46:04.440 Hutchins. Hutchins? 00:46:04.440 --> 00:46:05.400 Hutchins? 00:46:05.400 --> 00:46:07.199 No. Hutchins here from right.