رونوشت 🔗
WEBVTT
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All right. Today, I am sitting down with Leanne.
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She is the Marketing Director at Demandbase. She's a proactive B2B marketer
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who has led both traditional and digital marketing campaigns.
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She is extremely effective in developing ABM strategies, lead generation channel
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partnerships, and other promotion strategies.
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And she has 15 years of B2B SaaS marketing experience. In 2018,
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she actually created the Women in B2B Network, which is a vibrant community
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for senior professional women to connect, contribute, and grow.
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The mission of the network is actually to create a platform that connects women
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to opportunities, networks, businesses, and expertise that empowers them.
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And her network actually has over 400 members today.
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So Leanne, I'm super excited to chat with you and get to know more about your background. ground.
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Yeah, so excited to be here. Thanks for having me, Kira.
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Absolutely. So tell me a little bit about how and why you got into your current
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role and how you got into like the Women in B2B Network because that sounds pretty cool.
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Yeah, so I've been a career-long marketer. I always want to say lifelong,
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but I obviously haven't been doing this since like career-long.
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So always been in marketing it was something that
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I did that was part of my university degree
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and I did marketing as part of that in my
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last year and thought oh I really should have done a marketing degree because
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this is something that really interests me so then after university
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I went on and did another degree in my marketing diploma
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and I just love the different like disciplines and having uh learning lots of
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different skill sets and really understanding just like all of the different
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kind of aspects of marketing and then over the last nine years I've really developed.
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My skills in the areas of account-based marketing as we're starting to really
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focus on those accounts that have the highest propensity to buy and really having
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this focus on a target account list as being just a smarter way to go to market.
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That's where I've really got into it. And then I found myself at Demandbase.
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I've been here seven years this year and I'm in a really unique position where
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I use our own technology to help with my own account-based strategy.
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So I'm getting to use the product on a daily basis and give feedback and some
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product suggestions in terms of where we want to develop it.
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I get really involved in the sales cycle, pre and post sales to help our customers
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really learn how to leverage our technology and really get to practice what
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we preach around account-based marketing as well.
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So yeah it's a really sort of unique position
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to be marketing to marketers hence why i've been
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here for so long that's fun
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that's fun and i would assume you know a ton about your audience like way before
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going into it so that's that's also pretty unique yeah it's great having those
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peer to peer conversations as well so you're adding value in that sales cycle
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as well but it's great just to chat to other colleagues and you're bringing
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that kind of extra value to the to the
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sales team throughout those sales cycles. So yeah, it's pretty unique.
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Okay, awesome. So what's the one thing or the one tip or one piece of advice
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you'd like to share with marketers, especially in the B2B SaaS space?
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Yeah, so I think, you know, I mentioned about having this account-based approach.
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And I think one of the most urgent strategies in B2B today is focusing your
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time and your budget on the accounts that are most likely to buy.
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And that's harder than ever. And I think just given the economic climate that
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we find ourselves in, people are taking longer to make decisions,
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particularly around new technologies that they're purchasing,
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or they're not making a decision. People are.
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Scared really there's that real sort of fear factor if if
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i'm making the wrong decision decision you know my job could be on the line
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here those that are in an active sales cycle a lot of that is actually done
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anonymously so something like 95 of the customer's time in the buyer journey
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is actually done without that sales rep so so much of it is done anonymously and outside of a,
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salesperson's view and
Load full transcript
sometimes a marketer's view to understand where are these
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companies is researching it.
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If they're not coming to our website, where else are they looking?
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So I think it's really key to be able to get that intent of what companies are
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searching for, particularly products that are related to what you sell,
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but also if they're researching your competitors,
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like companies should be having that insight because we just need to be so much
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more proactive with those people that are researching and being able to deliver
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that really good customer experience.
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And it also just helps us be super focused on, you know, the accounts that we
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need to prioritize and ones that are showing those in-market signals.
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And I think another kind of part to that is kind of having everything.
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Once you have sort of decided upon or agreed upon having this account-based approach,
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it's then having one system in place to be able to link all of your data,
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your account level data, your contact level data, all of your systems and channels
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and processes and aligning teams.
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Because another sort of key challenge is this go-to-market fragmentation where
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sales are using one system, marketing are using another to look at accounts,
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contacts, leads, and And there's not that kind of one shared view.
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So having that one shared view between those teams is just so key.
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So I was saying having something, a platform or something in place to be able
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to give you that one view is really key.
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And then being able to measure the engagement across the buyer journey.
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So you can see where an account or an individual is in your funnel at any given
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time so that you know as a marketer, I know exactly what kind of messaging that
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I need to deliver to these accounts at these various stages in the sales cycle,
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but also when that lead or account is then ready for sales follow-up.
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So then they also know when's the right time for me to follow up when there's
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a decent amount of engagement.
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It's not just one person downloading a white paper that wouldn't constitute
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something that's sales ready.
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And then they also know what to say when they're of doing that follow-up as well.
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Okay. Yeah, that is awesome. I like that that's a whole system that kind of
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takes you from, we need to do account-based marketing to like,
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how are we going to link this all together to like, how are we going to make
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this a systematic approach to actually making sure that we're following up with
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people at the right time because we have all the data in front of us and it's
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all combined in a shared view.
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So like, what were you guys doing before
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you you implemented like consolidated or
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overarching abm system and like how
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does that compare to what you guys are doing now yes i mean i'm in the unique
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position where i work for an abm technology company so we very much practice
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what we preach we we already have that agreement on we're going to use our own
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technology to help our own go-to-market strategy and really live and breathe
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with account-based marketing.
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We become experts and that helps solidify our position in the market as a thought
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leader and one of the best or the best technology provider in that space as well.
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Prior to demand-based, it was really, you know, a lot of these issues started
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because there wasn't that sales and marketing alignment and marketing were providing
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sales with bad fit leads.
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It was almost like that kind of baton pass of like, well, we've got the lead,
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here you go sales, marketing jobs done.
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And that's where we leave it. And that just doesn't happen anymore.
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Marketing are getting involved from that,
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you know, helping to kind of work those leads and scoring and keep that engagement
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from the time that that account or an individual becomes a lead through to them
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becoming closed one opportunity as well.
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I think other challenges that I've experienced is then when you don't align
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with sales on what a good lead looks like, and you're not working together to
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really understand and build what does your ideal customer profile look like.
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And that just results in, again, providing those bad fit leads.
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It's like kind of square peg in a round hole scenario
where the result is it's
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a longer sales cycle because you're trying to close those bad fit accounts.
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You get lower average order values because the account isn't a good fit for you.
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It takes longer for you to be able to demonstrate and prove the value of the
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solution that you're trying to sell to that account.
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And then it impacts things like renewal rates because those accounts are a bad fit.
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And in that scenario, nobody has a great experience from a customer standpoint.
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If they're not a good fit for the business, they're just not going to have a
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great customer experience because the product's really not going to be sufficient
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for their needs, or they might not be quite ready for that product in terms
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of their market maturity.
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And for a lot of SaaS companies, well, for all SaaS companies,
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those renewal rates are so critical because they're measuring things like ARR,
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and that obviously helps things like funding and valuations and M&A opportunities.
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So it really has a huge knock-on effect throughout the funnel.
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So it's really important to be able to align on those, what does a good customer
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look like? Like, let's build our ideal customer profile together.
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And then we're passing leads to sales that they're actually able to close.
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I think the other key thing is having some sort of feedback system in place
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to say, if it is a bad lead, tell us and tell us why so that marketing can learn
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from that. And then they can work on improving the quality as well.
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Okay. I haven't heard of companies implementing a feedback system like that,
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but that sounds like such a good idea and something that a lot more people should be doing.
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Definitely. We have an amazing marketing operations team at Demandbase. We're really spoiled.
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And I always say they're the best in the business, but they
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introduced something thing that looks at mql
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eligible eligibility i always struggle to
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say that word and that's essentially gives the
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sdrs that follow up the leads for us they can
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say am i am i going to accept this and
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does it meet our idle customer profile then they they are able to give us feedback
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on why it's a bad fit so then we can make that improvement and that's like mandatory
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fields that we've built into our crm system to help with that feedback and that's
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something that we look at and we're actually gold on MQL acceptance rates.
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So it comes back to actually, once you do have these systems in place,
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it's being like accountable and standing by that to say,
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we're going to be gold on this and we're going to look at this and we want,
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you know, a certain percentage of all of the MQLs that come through to hit a
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certain acceptance rate.
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So that's as important as having that process in place as well.
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Okay. Yeah. I like setting that as kind of a metric upfront and then tracking
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that metric. That's really fun.
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And then another thing that you said is how important it is to link this data
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from different teams together and have like a shared dashboard or a shared view between teams.
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So do you have any like tips on setting that up?
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And like, well, first having this conversation with sales and aligning the ICP
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and then putting together this shared view.
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You like do you have any insight into like how to have those
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conversations or what would make like a really successful outcome yeah
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so this is where you build your abm team
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your abm leadership team and it needs to come from the top down so getting that
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organizational buy-in to say we're going to have this account-based approach
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to our go-to-market strategy we're really going to focus on getting the right
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accounts in our pipeline and trying to convert those into customers so So getting
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that agreement, firstly, is fundamental.
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And then secondly, it's that collaboration of that ABM leadership team.
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And that should be made up of sales, marketing, operations.
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Sometimes your finance team is also part of that as well, depending on the size
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of your organization, to really help you define and collaborate on what does
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that ideal customer profile look like.
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And you have all of that data that exists in your CRM system.
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So you look at your existing customer data to be like, what are our most
successful customers?
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Where do we have customers with the highest renewal rates, the ones that spend
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the most money with us, and look for commonalities between those.
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So are we seeing patterns in industries that those accounts are in certain revenue
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sizes, geographies, perhaps it's some other technology solutions that they're
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using that are complementary to yours.
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All of those things, revenue ranges, employee sizes, that could be another thing that comes into it.
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And then also looking at applying that same model to accounts that are in your
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current pipeline so that you're making sure that you're always...
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Keeping that ICP relevant. And that ICP scoring is something that you should
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do every 12 months and then going back, reviewing that customer data.
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Reviewing your pipeline data to make sure that actually the industries that
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we're trying to sell into are still relevant.
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We're still closing business with them and you're getting agreement from teams as well.
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And it also can differ depending on the segment.
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So you might have a slightly different ICP criteria for your enterprise size
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accounts, for your mid-market size accounts.
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We have it differently for our EMEA accounts versus the ones that we sell into
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in the US. There's other criteria that we use.
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So you don't have to have one model for the whole company.
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You can adapt it to suit the key segments that you're selling into or the key
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markets that you're selling into.
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To okay awesome there is a lot to
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unpack there so can we
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get like more detailed with this
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like I want specifics like is somebody coming in with
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like a really detailed spreadsheet having like spent
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some hours combing through like all the companies databases
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and then bringing that into like I don't know like
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a one-hour conversation with the head of sales and
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head of marketing or like how is this conversation literally happening
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yeah so that's a that's um a good
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way of how it could be done definitely and that's how it looks
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at and how we sort of do that at demand bay so typically marketing operations
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or your sales operations team are pulling that data from your crm and then you're
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meeting with that abm leadership team to agree on what the icp criteria looks
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like so it's leaders across sales marketing and your operations team.
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To make sure that you have the right ICP for your key segments and key markets.
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And again, as I said, that's something that should be reviewed regularly.
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Every year and that will depend on that review time will depend on how long
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your sales cycles are if your sales cycles are like two years plus you're probably
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not going to review that data.
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Every year it might be slightly longer if they're sort of you know six to nine
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months you would probably do that you know annually for example but that's definitely
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something that you'd want to revisit towards the end of the year when you're
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in your planning cycle so like October October,
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early November timeframe,
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have that locked down for the year ahead.
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And so then you can start applying those account scoring models as those accounts
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are coming into your CRM or those ones that exist already.
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You've got that criteria in place. So we actually have it split out by industry.
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So each industry that we're targeting has a weighting criteria to it.
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We do the same across technologies, revenue ranges, employee sizes,
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even country for where we're targeting specific countries in EMEA will have
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certain countries that are a higher priority for us to target.
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So it can be as granular as you want.
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Depends on what's most important to you.
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So where you know those accounts that meet this criteria that make really good
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customers for us. So there's not a limit as to how much you can have in there.
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And then that scoring can be really helpful because when you come to your target
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account list selection, those accounts with the highest account scores should
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be considered to be a target account.
00:17:46.515 --> 00:17:52.975
Okay. So we're doing account scoring based on like what industry it's in and
00:17:52.975 --> 00:17:57.815
like how closely that kind of aligns with the, the ICP that you've created.
00:17:58.115 --> 00:18:05.495
Okay. And so do
you have any tips on like how to set up that lead scoring system
00:18:05.495 --> 00:18:06.695
so that it's successful?
00:18:06.855 --> 00:18:12.435
Like, how do you know if you're doing too much lead scoring versus like not enough,
00:18:12.455 --> 00:18:15.375
or like you're paying too much attention to just like numbers and metrics
00:18:15.375 --> 00:18:18.215
versus like when it's actually
00:18:18.215 --> 00:18:22.035
going to like work and be useful for sales leaders
00:18:22.035 --> 00:18:24.655
in the sales team yeah and i think it is
00:18:24.655 --> 00:18:27.415
again it's getting that feedback from those leaders in
00:18:27.415 --> 00:18:30.355
your abm in your abm team so they can again
00:18:30.355 --> 00:18:33.195
solicit that feedback from the sales leaders
00:18:33.195 --> 00:18:35.995
and regional managed managers to see like what's most
00:18:35.995 --> 00:18:38.895
important to you and typically the sales
00:18:38.895 --> 00:18:41.815
salesperson would be it might be like four or five
00:18:41.815 --> 00:18:44.495
key data points where you're like
00:18:44.495 --> 00:18:47.375
this is a really good fit for us an industry would always be one
00:18:47.375 --> 00:18:50.255
of those revenue range employee size would be another
00:18:50.255 --> 00:18:53.515
as well company HQ would be another one so it's
00:18:53.515 --> 00:18:57.735
not you know lots and lots of different data points so I think getting that
00:18:57.735 --> 00:19:01.935
feedback and agreement on like these are all the ones that we're going to agree
00:19:01.935 --> 00:19:07.995
on and then there's CRM systems and marketing automation systems out there and
00:19:07.995 --> 00:19:11.635
tools like Demandbase that can help with that scoring piece as well.
00:19:12.755 --> 00:19:19.775
Okay, awesome. So if we had to like quickly summarize, like step by step this
00:19:19.775 --> 00:19:22.295
process from beginning to end
00:19:22.295 --> 00:19:27.135
of like, creating an account based marketing strategy that's successful,
00:19:27.295 --> 00:19:32.735
like step by step, what would you have someone do if they were setting this up for the first time?
00:19:33.426 --> 00:19:39.146
So I think the first bit would be, so that sales and marketing alignment piece is key.
00:19:39.426 --> 00:19:44.286
So I think that the three kind of core things around that is aligning on the
00:19:44.286 --> 00:19:49.986
data, sharing insights once you have all of these systems in place where you're
00:19:49.986 --> 00:19:53.866
able to get things like account intelligence, where they're showing intent and engagement,
00:19:54.166 --> 00:19:58.506
and then coordinating those account interactions between sales and marketing,
00:19:58.766 --> 00:20:02.106
and then some steps to help align teams on that.
00:20:02.106 --> 00:20:07.446
So firstly, starting with that collaboration on what your idle customer profile
00:20:07.446 --> 00:20:09.366
looks like and those account scoring models.
00:20:09.866 --> 00:20:13.906
Then agree on your go-to-market style as well.
00:20:14.086 --> 00:20:19.546
So are we going to have a one-to-one or one-to-many approach?
00:20:20.866 --> 00:20:25.026
And then I think the other key part is actually picking those target accounts.
00:20:25.506 --> 00:20:30.666
And it should be something that is marketing driven. So based on the scoring
00:20:30.666 --> 00:20:34.606
that we're getting from those accounts, we can make recommendations to say these
00:20:34.606 --> 00:20:36.466
should be considered for target account list.
00:20:36.566 --> 00:20:41.746
But ultimately, that account selection process to determine whether an account
00:20:41.746 --> 00:20:45.106
should be a target account or not should be owned by sales.
00:20:45.626 --> 00:20:50.206
And then within that, we give them the freedom to tier their target accounts.
00:20:50.206 --> 00:20:57.186
And that tiering is really key because then it helps us, the kind of next step to that is saying,
00:20:57.306 --> 00:21:01.546
okay, we're going to then define what we call entitlements for each of those
00:21:01.546 --> 00:21:05.306
account tiers that is going to help support that target account engagement.
00:21:05.686 --> 00:21:11.286
So those accounts at tier one should be those ones that have the highest potential value.
00:21:11.286 --> 00:21:16.446
Value so if it's an existing customer where there's you know big upsell or cross-sell
00:21:16.446 --> 00:21:20.146
opportunities of new products or selling into new business units for example
00:21:20.146 --> 00:21:26.286
or it could be the size of the account if it's in an enterprise segment and it has you know a,
00:21:26.917 --> 00:21:31.317
it's going to be spending a lot of money or the opportunity to be spending a
00:21:31.317 --> 00:21:34.717
lot of money with your company, they should be considered those tier one accounts.
00:21:35.357 --> 00:21:40.377
And then tier two, and just so just give you an idea of the numbers for our
00:21:40.377 --> 00:21:45.237
tiering, our sales reps have three accounts at tier one, 30 at tier two,
00:21:45.357 --> 00:21:50.177
and then the rest of their target accounts at tier three, which would be about 150 to 200.
00:21:50.657 --> 00:21:54.277
So we're not talking about thousands or hundreds and hundreds of accounts.
00:21:54.277 --> 00:21:56.277
It's quite a finite list.
00:21:56.877 --> 00:22:03.477
And then those entitlements are another great way of ensuring that sales and marketing are aligned.
00:22:03.797 --> 00:22:07.937
So the entitlements is almost like a contract between marketing and sales.
00:22:07.997 --> 00:22:11.457
So it's marketing saying to sales, for each of your account tiers,
00:22:11.637 --> 00:22:15.577
this is what we're going to deliver from a marketing program standpoint.
00:22:15.757 --> 00:22:18.417
This is how much we're going to spend on things like advertising,
00:22:18.917 --> 00:22:24.357
direct mail, executive events to try and
help drive engagement with those target accounts.
00:22:24.637 --> 00:22:29.137
And that's all agreed upon at the end of the year for the next coming year.
00:22:29.237 --> 00:22:33.017
So the entitlements will change year on year as well.
00:22:33.477 --> 00:22:38.017
So that's really important. And it really helps them buy into this idea of having
00:22:38.017 --> 00:22:41.337
an account-based approach because these target accounts are getting more of
00:22:41.337 --> 00:22:42.817
a white glove treatment.
00:22:42.977 --> 00:22:47.417
A lot of the messaging and outreach that you're doing to these accounts is a
00:22:47.417 --> 00:22:50.877
lot more personalized to those accounts because you're able to get all of that
00:22:50.877 --> 00:22:55.997
insight into those accounts with regards to intent and engagement where they
00:22:55.997 --> 00:22:56.897
are on the buyer journey.
00:22:57.257 --> 00:23:01.837
And then that can reflect in the messaging that you're putting in front of those
00:23:01.837 --> 00:23:04.737
accounts, whether it's through a marketing campaign or through sales outreach.
00:23:05.457 --> 00:23:08.557
And then another part is actually sharing that account intelligence.
00:23:09.097 --> 00:23:13.137
So again, any intent that you're seeing for that account, that's a target account,
00:23:13.317 --> 00:23:17.837
that salesperson should have insight into that as well, making it as easy as
00:23:17.837 --> 00:23:20.257
possible. So So sending them a weekly...
00:23:20.904 --> 00:23:23.644
Digest of like these are your target accounts and these are the top
00:23:23.644 --> 00:23:26.684
things that they're showing intent for whether that's product intent
00:23:26.684 --> 00:23:29.644
or competitors whether that's their
00:23:29.644 --> 00:23:33.904
you know in gate that we're seeing high engagement or a high spike of visitors
00:23:33.904 --> 00:23:38.044
to our website from this particular target account this is great insight and
00:23:38.044 --> 00:23:42.904
that should be shared very regularly with with your sales team and when we have
00:23:42.904 --> 00:23:47.124
slack alerts set up for when a target account comes to our
00:23:47.164 --> 00:23:49.824
website so their account owner and the SDR owner will get
00:23:49.824 --> 00:23:52.704
an alert to let them know so they can be really like
00:23:52.704 --> 00:23:55.584
reactive and then the final part to
00:23:55.584 --> 00:23:58.604
it is meeting regularly to check in on what's happening
00:23:58.604 --> 00:24:01.624
and one of the forums that we have for this and
00:24:01.624 --> 00:24:07.584
I recommend this to anybody we call it an ABX stand-up so it's a monthly meeting
00:24:07.584 --> 00:24:13.164
between myself the sales rep and their SDR and we look at their target account
00:24:13.164 --> 00:24:14.844
list so some of it might be looking
00:24:14.844 --> 00:24:19.984
at where are all your current target account sitting in the funnel?
00:24:20.144 --> 00:24:23.644
Are there too many accounts at the top of funnel that have been stuck at a certain
00:24:23.644 --> 00:24:27.004
journey stage for X amount of time?
00:24:27.104 --> 00:24:31.164
How can we try and drive more engagement and get them moving to a forward journey stage?
00:24:31.704 --> 00:24:38.224
It could be accounts where they're already in pipeline and we want to do some
00:24:38.224 --> 00:24:39.604
more like personalized outreach.
00:24:39.744 --> 00:24:42.124
It's going to help like close a deal. We can look at that.
00:24:42.364 --> 00:24:46.724
It could be that we see accounts that are actually, you have a lot of accounts
00:24:46.724 --> 00:24:51.884
in one particular industry, let's run a really specific or run an industry-specific
00:24:51.884 --> 00:24:55.144
campaign into those accounts to help drive that engagement as well.
00:24:55.304 --> 00:25:01.024
So that is something that's been really successful, key to that sales and marketing alignment piece.
00:25:01.144 --> 00:25:05.924
And it really helps you act as one team and really be that partner to sales.
00:25:06.764 --> 00:25:09.364
So yeah, the ABM stand-ups is something that I would highly recommend.
00:25:10.200 --> 00:25:17.100
Okay. Awesome. I really, really love this system. It's so clear and dreamlined.
00:25:17.300 --> 00:25:22.080
So sales and marketing alignment and figuring out the ICP and account scoring
00:25:22.080 --> 00:25:26.440
and the go-to-market style, picking the target accounts,
00:25:26.740 --> 00:25:32.000
and then marketing figures out for each of the accounts how much money they're
00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:36.340
going to spend on things like advertising and what kind of messaging they're
00:25:36.340 --> 00:25:38.140
going to do to personalize to those accounts.
00:25:38.380 --> 00:25:42.880
And then you share the account intelligence to the salespeople through a weekly
00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:45.200
email or Slack alert or however you do it.
00:25:45.280 --> 00:25:51.640
And then you meet regularly through these ABX standups to figure out how each
00:25:51.640 --> 00:25:57.900
SDR can drive more or how you can help each SDR drive more engagement for their account,
00:25:58.020 --> 00:26:00.420
how you can help them create a better outreach plan,
00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:02.820
get some deals unstuck, whatever it is.
00:26:03.040 --> 00:26:07.920
Yeah. And it's also, it's all about the accounts to prioritize as well so where
00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:10.260
they're seeing the ones that have that highest engagement.
00:26:11.500 --> 00:26:14.380
Another digest we call it a weekly digest would be
00:26:14.380 --> 00:26:17.760
these are the accounts to focus on this this week so
00:26:17.760 --> 00:26:21.640
the sdrs have this kind of like um order of operations to be like okay this
00:26:21.640 --> 00:26:25.200
week i'm going to focus on these accounts that are showing high intent for our
00:26:25.200 --> 00:26:29.280
competitors for example like that could be really low hanging fruit because
00:26:29.280 --> 00:26:33.760
that would indicate somebody's in a researching researching and is in a kind
00:26:33.760 --> 00:26:35.660
of evaluation stage potentially.
00:26:35.900 --> 00:26:39.080
So you would want to start, you know, engaging with that account ASAP.
00:26:39.580 --> 00:26:44.700
So yeah, a huge part of it is about helping them prioritize what accounts to go after.
00:26:44.800 --> 00:26:48.980
So having that account intelligence that gives them all of that insight and
00:26:48.980 --> 00:26:52.960
it just helps focus their efforts for that upcoming week.
00:26:53.460 --> 00:26:57.280
Okay. Awesome. Well, I really, really appreciate this conversation,
00:26:57.480 --> 00:27:02.060
Leanne. And as we're wrapping the conversation up, do you have anything you'd
00:27:02.060 --> 00:27:06.680
like to share or promote with regards to your company or any projects that you're working on?
00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:12.100
So I think anybody that's out there considering an account-based approach looking
00:27:12.100 --> 00:27:15.240
or just looking like where to get started,
00:27:15.700 --> 00:27:24.060
demandbase.com has a whole host of resources for all different kinds of ABM maturity levels.
00:27:24.060 --> 00:27:27.280
One particular asset that's great
00:27:27.280 --> 00:27:29.960
is something called unspam your brand and it's this
00:27:29.960 --> 00:27:33.980
definitive guide to account-based marketing
00:27:33.980 --> 00:27:37.180
that's been written by our cmo john
00:27:37.180 --> 00:27:43.100
miller who is he's co-founder and cmo of marketo and engageo as well so he has
00:27:43.100 --> 00:27:48.060
a whole host of experience so that's a really comprehensive asset to to look
00:27:48.060 --> 00:27:51.700
at and then we also have a certification program so anybody Anybody that's looking
00:27:51.700 --> 00:27:55.460
to really get the basic understanding of an ABM strategy.
00:27:55.980 --> 00:28:00.700
We have foundation level right up to expert as well. That's available on our
00:28:00.700 --> 00:28:03.080
website. So go check both of those things out.
00:28:03.600 --> 00:28:05.460
Okay, awesome. Thank you so
00:28:05.460 --> 00:28:08.940
much for the conversation. I really appreciate it. Thanks for having me.