رونوشت کامل ep126: Alberta's Referendum Results + Fighting Back Against Data Centres

it's Yahoo, isn't it? 63 00:04:07.430 --> 00:04:08.240 It is Yahoo. 64 00:04:08.810 --> 00:04:11.699 Yeah, in an independent Alberta, we'll be very strict about that. 65 00:04:12.259 --> 00:04:12.740 That's right. 66 00:04:12.759 --> 00:04:13.139 Yeah. 67 00:04:13.719 --> 00:04:16.160 So today we're addressing the elephant in the room, the 68 00:04:16.180 --> 00:04:18.160 hot topic that so many of our loyal fans have 69 00:04:18.199 --> 00:04:21.639 written to us about, demanding that we cover. Despite our 70 00:04:21.699 --> 00:04:25.949 hesitancy to wade into this quagmire of deep, deep psychological pain, 71 00:04:26.610 --> 00:04:29.730 we're going to be talking about the referendum. Well, actually, 72 00:04:30.069 --> 00:04:33.370 it's a referenda, plural. Of course, a lot of the 73 00:04:33.410 --> 00:04:35.949 media attention has gone to the big question, which is 74 00:04:36.009 --> 00:04:40.220 about Alberta separating from Canada. Or rather, as the question says, 75 00:04:40.899 --> 00:04:44.170 should Alberta remain a province of Canada? Or should the 76 00:04:44.189 --> 00:04:47.910 government of Alberta commence the legal process required under the 77 00:04:47.930 --> 00:04:51.509 Canadian Constitution to hold a binding provincial referendum on whether 78 00:04:51.529 --> 00:04:54.810 or not Alberta should separate from Canada? In other words, 79 00:04:55.069 --> 00:04:57.459 it's a referendum on a referendum, which is sort of 80 00:04:57.500 --> 00:05:00.519 like a fancy little way to do an end run 81 00:05:00.540 --> 00:05:06.990 around the constitutionality of holding a referendum on Alberta independence 82 00:05:07.990 --> 00:05:10.769 for the moment. So this is basically a huge waste 83 00:05:10.810 --> 00:05:14.990 of time and resources. It's going to fail, almost certainly. 84 00:05:15.569 --> 00:05:17.649 And it also empowers all those who don't like being 85 00:05:17.689 --> 00:05:21.300 told what to do by Ottawa, the courts, the charter, etc. 86 00:05:21.519 --> 00:05:24.540 Well, I think the real referendum is the friends we 87 00:05:24.579 --> 00:05:25.360 made along the way. 88 00:05:26.180 --> 00:05:28.160 Yeah, well, these guys certainly have made a lot of 89 00:05:28.199 --> 00:05:28.990 friends doing this. 90 00:05:29.759 --> 00:05:32.329 Yeah, we'll talk about the guys. 91 00:05:32.350 --> 00:05:36.709 Oh, there are some guys behind this. 92 00:05:36.910 --> 00:05:40.170 Yeah, so in addition to the sovereignty question, which we'll 93 00:05:40.189 --> 00:05:45.279 talk about in somewhat great detail, unfortunately, there are nine 94 00:05:45.300 --> 00:05:49.829 other questions on the ballot, and which we think... are 95 00:05:49.930 --> 00:05:53.670 much more concerning ultimately than the referendum question. And it's 96 00:05:53.689 --> 00:05:55.939 something that we also feel that the media has not 97 00:05:56.060 --> 00:05:58.560 really done a great job talking about these nine other 98 00:05:58.600 --> 00:06:02.899 questions because they're much more likely to pass and the 99 00:06:02.939 --> 00:06:05.810 government also wants to do them. The referendum is just 100 00:06:05.819 --> 00:06:08.709 sort of like a distraction in some senses. The referendum 101 00:06:08.730 --> 00:06:11.649 on separatism. So to quickly go over some of these, 102 00:06:12.689 --> 00:06:15.529 we have the first one, Do you support the government 103 00:06:15.569 --> 00:06:18.740 of Alberta taking increased control over immigration for the purposes 104 00:06:18.779 --> 00:06:23.819 of decreasing immigration to more sustainable levels, prioritizing economic migration, 105 00:06:24.120 --> 00:06:27.800 and giving Albertans first priority on new employment opportunities? As 106 00:06:27.839 --> 00:06:30.300 you can tell just from this very first question, how 107 00:06:30.360 --> 00:06:35.050 very loaded these questions all will be, this is a 108 00:06:35.149 --> 00:06:37.569 common theme where the government is trying to tell people 109 00:06:37.589 --> 00:06:38.189 how to vote on this. 110 00:06:39.970 --> 00:06:42.649 You're saying you don't want immigration to be sustainable? 111 00:06:43.009 --> 00:06:45.389 Well, I would love unsustainable immigration, honestly. 112 00:06:45.420 --> 00:06:47.259 Yeah, actually, me too. 113 00:06:47.519 --> 00:06:51.399 It makes the people I hate really mad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 114 00:06:51.660 --> 00:06:55.819 And, like, again, also left out of the equation is 115 00:06:55.860 --> 00:06:59.509 the fact that Canada has, like, had, like, zero population 116 00:06:59.550 --> 00:07:00.970 growth for the past year. 117 00:07:02.069 --> 00:07:02.250 Yeah. 118 00:07:02.290 --> 00:07:04.649 Yeah, and it's also, like, one of these things where it's, like, 119 00:07:04.670 --> 00:07:08.750 there's so many, like, dog whistles here that are just so... 120 00:07:09.209 --> 00:07:12.100 So like, like, again, very just like question marks, again, 121 00:07:12.120 --> 00:07:16.100 talking about like prioritizing economic migration, it's like Canada's immigration 122 00:07:16.120 --> 00:07:19.839 regime is really like, that's what it's like, set up for. 123 00:07:19.939 --> 00:07:21.060 Yeah. 124 00:07:21.660 --> 00:07:23.680 Like, it's like one of these things where it's like, again, 125 00:07:23.699 --> 00:07:25.800 with the Harper reforms, all of this kind of stuff, like, 126 00:07:26.339 --> 00:07:27.920 if you know, I don't want to talk too much 127 00:07:27.959 --> 00:07:30.730 out of my ass, but I'm quite certain that the majority, 128 00:07:30.759 --> 00:07:34.470 if not like a very strong plurality of immigrants coming 129 00:07:34.509 --> 00:07:36.009 to Canada are economic immigrants. 130 00:07:36.600 --> 00:07:39.839 Migrants right so it's like one of these things where it's. 131 00:07:39.779 --> 00:07:44.980 Like you know you actually just don't want immigrants period 132 00:07:45.339 --> 00:07:47.860 you just want to create like this sort

of like 133 00:07:48.060 --> 00:07:51.079 idealized version of a good immigrant who's like probably like 134 00:07:51.519 --> 00:07:54.819 white and highly educated i remember this jason kenney tweet 135 00:07:55.290 --> 00:07:57.189 where he talked about how hard it was for this 136 00:07:57.290 --> 00:08:02.990 his friend of mine who is like a brazilian polyglot 137 00:08:03.310 --> 00:08:08.189 pediatric oncologist or something like that who had trouble finding, getting. 138 00:08:08.009 --> 00:08:09.040 Like permanent residency. 139 00:08:09.060 --> 00:08:11.220 You're just sort of like, yeah, why can't this guy 140 00:08:11.500 --> 00:08:14.279 like stay here? And like, to be clear, like I'm 141 00:08:14.300 --> 00:08:17.680 certain that like a polyglot Brazilian pediatric oncologist, yeah, that 142 00:08:17.699 --> 00:08:20.620 sounds like someone that would probably be like a net good. 143 00:08:20.970 --> 00:08:22.470 To have in the country. 144 00:08:22.509 --> 00:08:26.269 But it's also like, we also need people who will 145 00:08:26.329 --> 00:08:30.029 also do, you know, perhaps less extraordinary tasks. 146 00:08:31.310 --> 00:08:33.259 That's how the economy is set up, whether you like 147 00:08:33.299 --> 00:08:33.700 it or not. 148 00:08:34.080 --> 00:08:37.039 Well, it's also the implication that instead we're getting a 149 00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:39.909 whole bunch of immigrants who just come to the country 150 00:08:39.970 --> 00:08:43.629 and sit on welfare and which is absolutely not the case. 151 00:08:44.070 --> 00:08:44.309 Yeah. 152 00:08:44.570 --> 00:08:49.889 And I think there's a broader point about the right 153 00:08:49.909 --> 00:08:57.220 wing authoritarian populist politics that Danielle Smith has embraced. And 154 00:08:57.259 --> 00:08:59.980 that's that the particulars don't matter. 155 00:09:00.669 --> 00:09:01.029 Right. 156 00:09:01.769 --> 00:09:07.929 It's we are the people defined as people who live 157 00:09:07.980 --> 00:09:12.320 in rural areas, who are religious, who are socially conservative, 158 00:09:12.580 --> 00:09:14.019 who work in oil and gas. 159 00:09:14.899 --> 00:09:15.700 And we are. 160 00:09:15.840 --> 00:09:22.090 Standing up to the elites in the elites are anyone 161 00:09:22.149 --> 00:09:23.710 who's not the actual elites. 162 00:09:23.809 --> 00:09:24.090 Right. 163 00:09:24.210 --> 00:09:28.629 And so in that sense, Facts don't matter, right? 164 00:09:28.750 --> 00:09:29.889 It's just about. 165 00:09:29.809 --> 00:09:34.629 Finding a scapegoat for the reason that, as we can 166 00:09:34.690 --> 00:09:40.409 all see, classrooms are overcrowded, emergency room wait times are 167 00:09:41.330 --> 00:09:44.210 off the charts, and rather than. 168 00:09:45.090 --> 00:09:45.730 pointing. 169 00:09:45.450 --> 00:09:50.279 The finger at these oil and gas of vampires who've 170 00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:53.639 just been like bleeding the province dry for decades in 171 00:09:53.700 --> 00:09:58.730 paying incredibly low royalty rates and low corporate taxes. 172 00:09:58.750 --> 00:10:01.259 It's no, no, no, no, no. It's, it's these, it's 173 00:10:01.299 --> 00:10:02.860 these immigrants, right. 174 00:10:02.960 --> 00:10:08.450 That are just staying on welfare, using our public services. 175 00:10:08.470 --> 00:10:13.250 And that, that's the reason why you can't find a 176 00:10:13.269 --> 00:10:16.450 family doctor, or that's the reason why your kid's classroom 177 00:10:16.529 --> 00:10:18.409 has like 30 students in it. 178 00:10:18.809 --> 00:10:19.049 Right. 179 00:10:19.250 --> 00:10:20.490 Or buy an affordable home. 180 00:10:20.870 --> 00:10:21.070 Right. 181 00:10:21.190 --> 00:10:21.490 Oh, yeah. 182 00:10:21.549 --> 00:10:24.009 And that's that's a big one, too. And that's Canada wide, 183 00:10:24.049 --> 00:10:25.049 you see. Right. 184 00:10:25.090 --> 00:10:25.830 No, no, no. 185 00:10:25.970 --> 00:10:27.590 It's it's it's. 186 00:10:27.549 --> 00:10:32.230 Actually these immigrants in these also these investors from China, 187 00:10:32.309 --> 00:10:35.110 not not people in Canada and the US who are, 188 00:10:35.350 --> 00:10:39.250 you know, these REITs that are just buying up properties 189 00:10:39.389 --> 00:10:41.820 to trade like Pokemon cards. 190 00:10:42.480 --> 00:10:42.659 Yeah. 191 00:10:42.700 --> 00:10:44.039 Canadians would never do that. 192 00:10:44.340 --> 00:10:44.580 Yeah. 193 00:10:45.159 --> 00:10:45.340 Yeah. 194 00:10:45.360 --> 00:10:47.720 Canadians would never speculate on the realistic market. 195 00:10:47.740 --> 00:10:48.419 We're too good for that. 196 00:10:49.149 --> 00:10:50.950 And that's like a very good lead into what the 197 00:10:50.990 --> 00:10:54.389 next three questions are going to be about. So I'll 198 00:10:54.409 --> 00:10:55.690 read them out and then we'll just sort of talk 199 00:10:55.730 --> 00:10:58.509 about them together because I think they all hit on 200 00:10:59.129 --> 00:11:02.169 variations of the same theme. Do you support the government 201 00:11:02.200 --> 00:11:05.419 of Alberta introducing a law mandating that only Canadian citizens, 202 00:11:05.879 --> 00:11:09.980 permanent residents, and individuals with an Alberta-approved immigration status will 203 00:11:10.019 --> 00:11:13.919 be eligible for provincially funded programs such as healthcare, education, 204 00:11:14.039 --> 00:11:19.090 and other social services? And then... Assuming that all Canadian 205 00:11:19.129 --> 00:11:22.710 citizens and permanent residents continue to qualify for social support 206 00:11:22.750 --> 00:11:25.289 programs as they do now, do you support the government 207 00:11:25.309 --> 00:11:29.029 of Alberta introducing a law that requires all individuals with 208 00:11:29.110 --> 00:11:32.529 non-permanent legal immigration status to reside in Alberta for at 209 00:11:32.570 --> 00:11:36.600 least 12 months before qualifying for any provincially funded

social programs? 210 00:11:37.960 --> 00:11:41.320 And the final one of these questions, assuming that all 211 00:11:41.600 --> 00:11:45.019 Canadian citizens and permanent residents continue to qualify for public 212 00:11:45.059 --> 00:11:47.889 health care and education as they do now, Do you 213 00:11:47.929 --> 00:11:51.269 support the government of Alberta charging a reasonable fee or 214 00:11:51.330 --> 00:11:55.440 premium to individuals with a non-permanent immigration status living in 215 00:11:55.480 --> 00:11:58.340 Alberta for their and their family's use of the health 216 00:11:58.379 --> 00:11:59.620 care and education systems? 217 00:12:02.720 --> 00:12:05.159 Oh, that's just. 218 00:12:05.179 --> 00:12:09.019 You know, some more cynical people might describe that as 219 00:12:09.279 --> 00:12:20.000 a head tax, given that you know, temporary foreign workers, students, 220 00:12:20.440 --> 00:12:26.120 if they're earning income, are paying taxes, right? Like they're 221 00:12:26.179 --> 00:12:29.769 paying the same level of taxes as anyone else who 222 00:12:29.809 --> 00:12:35.289 works in Canada. So this is an additional tax on 223 00:12:35.350 --> 00:12:38.710 them based on the fact that they weren't born here. 224 00:12:39.889 --> 00:12:40.169 Yeah. 225 00:12:40.370 --> 00:12:42.759 Oh, the head tax comparison, I haven't. thought about it 226 00:12:42.779 --> 00:12:46.759 like that but that yeah oh geez that's yeah no 227 00:12:46.799 --> 00:12:50.289 it's it's really messed up and also here like i 228 00:12:50.309 --> 00:12:52.909 don't know if uh smith and the rest have really 229 00:12:52.950 --> 00:12:56.490 specified what they mean by social support programs like i 230 00:12:56.509 --> 00:12:58.389 don't know do they do they mean more specifically are 231 00:12:58.409 --> 00:13:00.629 they talking more about like age or are they talking 232 00:13:00.710 --> 00:13:04.850 like more broadly about just like the welfare state like 233 00:13:04.970 --> 00:13:07.090 period like. 234 00:13:06.909 --> 00:13:09.779 I think they mean everything Like the fact that they 235 00:13:09.799 --> 00:13:13.299 say education and health care specifically before they say other 236 00:13:13.340 --> 00:13:14.259 social programs. 237 00:13:14.919 --> 00:13:15.179 Yeah. 238 00:13:15.779 --> 00:13:17.799 They mean like you won't even be able to access 239 00:13:17.840 --> 00:13:19.720 a doctor for 12 months. 240 00:13:20.320 --> 00:13:22.370 Oh, I think it's you can, but you pay for 241 00:13:22.500 --> 00:13:24.809 it like as if it was. Yeah. 242 00:13:24.850 --> 00:13:25.070 Yeah. 243 00:13:25.129 --> 00:13:28.169 Well, it it's sort of unclear that like, do you 244 00:13:28.230 --> 00:13:31.289 not qualify for 12 months and then afterwards you have 245 00:13:31.309 --> 00:13:35.049 to pay? a quote-unquote reasonable premium, which of course they 246 00:13:35.070 --> 00:13:37.500 make it sound very nice. We're just going to charge 247 00:13:37.539

--> 00:13:40.519 them a reasonable amount. Who knows what that is? Also, 248 00:13:40.559 --> 00:13:43.340 I think it's worth pointing out, at many points in time, 249 00:13:43.360 --> 00:13:48.039 we've had healthcare premiums charged to us. You should never 250 00:13:48.090 --> 00:13:49.289 have to pay healthcare premiums. 251 00:13:51.210 --> 00:13:51.470 Right. 252 00:13:51.570 --> 00:13:57.129 I mean, people hated the healthcare premium that Stelmac, I believe, 253 00:13:57.549 --> 00:14:00.740 got rid of. Even though, I mean, it's a tax, right, 254 00:14:00.840 --> 00:14:02.299 to help fund health care. 255 00:14:02.320 --> 00:14:05.080 Just fund it at a general revenue. 256 00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:06.019 Yeah, yeah. 257 00:14:06.139 --> 00:14:07.100 I mean, that's the idea. 258 00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:11.950 But if you're not increasing income taxes or other sources 259 00:14:12.090 --> 00:14:16.309 of revenue, say royalties, to make up for the lost 260 00:14:16.909 --> 00:14:22.970 health premium revenue, then here we are, right? But again, yeah, 261 00:14:23.029 --> 00:14:26.090 this is all just premised, right? This is building a 262 00:14:26.210 --> 00:14:33.840 rationalization system that the reason healthcare or healthcare system is 263 00:14:33.879 --> 00:14:38.360 so broken is because of all the immigrants. While at 264 00:14:38.399 --> 00:14:44.240 the same time, this can't be disconnected from the healthcare 265 00:14:44.259 --> 00:14:51.820 privatization that the UCP government under Premier Daniel Smith has introduced. 266 00:14:52.909 --> 00:14:57.870 that creates these markets for private insurance for things that 267 00:14:58.009 --> 00:15:03.629 previously had to be publicly insured. And so this is 268 00:15:03.669 --> 00:15:07.019 a way to kick people off of public health care. 269 00:15:07.059 --> 00:15:10.620 You're seeing that also with the new ID cards that 270 00:15:10.679 --> 00:15:14.480 include proof of citizenship and health card numbers. 271 00:15:15.059 --> 00:15:16.940 That if you don't renew. 272 00:15:16.580 --> 00:15:20.610 Your health card periodically, you lose public insurance and then 273 00:15:20.629 --> 00:15:27.049 you're forced to purchase private insurance or get through your employer. Now, 274 00:15:28.309 --> 00:15:34.970 this is essentially using temporary foreign workers, refugee claimants, international 275 00:15:35.029 --> 00:15:38.629 students as sort of a testing ground for kicking. 276 00:15:38.350 --> 00:15:41.980 People off of public health care programs. 277 00:15:43.269 --> 00:15:46.830 Yeah, and it also has this part where, like, we're 278 00:15:46.850 --> 00:15:50.990 just arguing that, like, there's too many people, and if 279 00:15:51.029 --> 00:15:53.049 we reduce the number of immigrants, that will, like, reduce 280 00:15:53.090 --> 00:15:55.370 the strain on our social services. 281 00:15:55.149 --> 00:15:56.309 And housing, etc. 282 00:15:56.649 --> 00:15:58.950 There's a new episode of the Alberta Advantage. Find out 283 00:15:58.970 --> 00:16:01.549 more about the show at albertadvantagepod.com. And hear the rest 284 00:16:01.580 --> 00:16:10.039 of the conversation at harbingermedianetwork.com. You're listening to Harbinger Showcase 285 00:16:10.100 --> 00:16:12.899 on your local campus and community radio station. I'm Harbinger 286 00:16:12.919 --> 00:16:22.509 Director Andre Goulet in Montreal. Coming up next. The Week 287 00:16:22.710 --> 00:16:25.389 is Rover is a weekly video and audio news show 288 00:16:25.429 --> 00:16:29.330 from Montreal independent journalism publication The Rover, featuring hosts Savannah Stewart, 289 00:16:29.470 --> 00:16:32.090 Amelia Fournier, and Chris Curtis, talking about the latest in 290 00:16:32.110 --> 00:16:35.289 Quebec politics, society, and culture. On this highlight from a 291 00:16:35.330 --> 00:16:38.269 new episode, Savannah talks with journalist Nora Loretto about the 292 00:16:38.309 --> 00:16:42.230 Parti Conservatoire du Québec making a grand entrance into the 293 00:16:42.350 --> 00:16:44.429 National Assembly. Now, here's the show. 294 00:16:44.509 --> 00:16:47.049 The Parti Conservatoire du Québec is headed to the National 295 00:16:47.080 --> 00:16:49.960 Assembly with 19 seats. The party is now the third 296 00:16:50.019 --> 00:16:53.779 largest in the legislature, having garnered 20% of the popular vote. 297 00:16:54.080 --> 00:16:56.519 It's come a long way since the last election, when 298 00:16:56.539 --> 00:16:59.730 it failed to pick up any seats with just under 299 00:16:59.730 --> 00:17:01.889 13% of the vote. The PCQ ran on a platform 300 00:17:01.929 --> 00:17:05.900 to lower taxes... reduce certain forms of immigration, use the 301 00:17:05.940 --> 00:17:08.859 private sector to address issues in the public health system, 302 00:17:09.259 --> 00:17:13.039 and deregulate our economy. Having exceeded the minimum 12 seats 303 00:17:13.119 --> 00:17:16.720 needed to obtain official party status, the PCQ is set 304 00:17:16.759 --> 00:17:19.349 to be a deciding force in the next minority government. 305 00:17:19.640 --> 00:17:23.130 Official party status comes with some important perks. Public funding 306 00:17:23.190 --> 00:17:27.210 to hire staff and conduct research, more time during question period, 307 00:17:27.609 --> 00:17:31.250 and greater participation in parliamentary committees. What should we make 308 00:17:31.309 --> 00:17:33.819 of the party's rise to prominence in the Quebec City region, 309 00:17:33.980 --> 00:17:36.779 and how will it influence the goings-on in the National Assembly? 310 00:17:36.980 --> 00:17:39.940 I'm joined today by journalist and labour organizer Nora. 311 00:17:39.799 --> 00:17:40.859 Loreto to talk about this. 312 00:17:42.319 --> 00:17:44.200 So thank you so much for coming on the show 313 00:17:44.240 --> 00:17:48.339 to talk about this with us today, Nora. So, you know, 314 00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:50.359 one

of the big stories that came out of the 315 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:55.190 election night was really the success of the Conservative Party. 316 00:17:55.210 --> 00:17:59.369 I think they, you know, kind of surpassed most people's 317 00:17:59.410 --> 00:18:02.529 expectations of how they were going to do. Why do 318 00:18:02.549 --> 00:18:04.970 you think that they were so successful in this election? 319 00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:08.380 I think we have to see the conservative victory and 320 00:18:08.460 --> 00:18:09.119 actually not just. 321 00:18:09.019 --> 00:18:11.450 The conservative victory, but where it happened, which is the 322 00:18:11.470 --> 00:18:14.670 whole national capital region down to the boats. I think 323 00:18:14.690 --> 00:18:17.690 we have to see all of those results as being 324 00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:23.799 a rejection of the status quo in Accompanied by, created 325 00:18:23.839 --> 00:18:27.029 by the CAC. Like, this was a very clear rejection 326 00:18:27.049 --> 00:18:32.230 of the CAC's policies and of everything the CAC stood for. Now, 327 00:18:32.730 --> 00:18:35.390 what is different about this region for where the Conservatives 328 00:18:35.450 --> 00:18:38.970 come into play is that the way to reject the 329 00:18:38.990 --> 00:18:42.279 CAC here was not by selecting the Parti Kibikwak. 330 00:18:42.900 --> 00:18:45.160 And I think that that is so interesting. 331 00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:48.500 So what was it about the Conservatives or what was 332 00:18:48.519 --> 00:18:52.009 it about the Parti Québécois that voters here did not 333 00:18:52.119 --> 00:18:56.809 park their protest with the PQ against the CAC, right? 334 00:18:57.630 --> 00:19:00.230 And I think that there's a couple of reasons for that. 335 00:19:00.549 --> 00:19:03.109 One is that the Conservatives have been working very, very 336 00:19:03.150 --> 00:19:05.750 hard in this region for many, many, many years, like 337 00:19:05.849 --> 00:19:08.619 a decade now, to make a breakthrough. 338 00:19:09.230 --> 00:19:12.769 They broke through at the municipal level in just three 339 00:19:12.849 --> 00:19:15.230 wards out of 21. 340 00:19:15.230 --> 00:19:17.349 But that was enough to show people that like, hey, look, 341 00:19:17.369 --> 00:19:20.859 we actually can get elected. And Quebec City is notoriously 342 00:19:21.099 --> 00:19:25.700 like not voting for sovereignty. It never voted for sovereignty 343 00:19:25.720 --> 00:19:30.450 in the referendums. The downtowns are very sovereigntist, but the 344 00:19:30.490 --> 00:19:33.849 banlieue is not. And so if you are someone who 345 00:19:34.009 --> 00:19:37.329 is angry at the CAQ, worried about the state of Quebec, 346 00:19:37.650 --> 00:19:40.430 worried about the affordability crisis, and you're not going to 347 00:19:40.430 --> 00:19:42.759 think too, too hard about how like Eric Duhem is 348 00:19:42.759 --> 00:19:44.970 a liar, you're going to park your vote with the 349 00:19:44.970 -->

00:19:47.950 with the conservatives over the Parti Québécois because you're not 350 00:19:48.049 --> 00:19:51.470 looking to get like be the guys in power. You 351 00:19:51.509 --> 00:19:53.950 just had the guys in power. You're going to you're 352 00:19:53.970 --> 00:19:55.839 going to protest. You're going to pick your protest vote. 353 00:19:56.579 --> 00:19:57.380 And that's the case. 354 00:19:57.519 --> 00:20:01.420 Again, it's not actually just about the conservatives in that perspective. 355 00:20:01.759 --> 00:20:04.259 It's about Quebec's leader as well. And it's about the liberals. 356 00:20:04.660 --> 00:20:08.960 Who managed to steal a seat away from the Parti Québécois, 357 00:20:08.980 --> 00:20:10.900 from Pascal Paradis, which is pretty interesting. 358 00:20:12.240 --> 00:20:14.740 Yeah, so I guess what you're saying is that it's 359 00:20:14.779 --> 00:20:22.400 not so much that the voters were interested in what 360 00:20:22.500 --> 00:20:26.019 the PCQ was putting forward so much as wanting to 361 00:20:26.099 --> 00:20:29.559 protest the CAQ and the PQ. 362 00:20:30.950 --> 00:20:32.920 I think that like, you know, to say that this 363 00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:37.200 vote demonstrates that Quebec City wants like an Éric Duhem 364 00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:40.960 government is not at all what the result shows. 365 00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:43.420 There are obviously people who. 366 00:20:43.319 --> 00:20:45.559 Voted for the for the conservatives who want the conservatives 367 00:20:45.579 --> 00:20:49.319 in power and who completely endorse everything that they stand for. 368 00:20:49.779 --> 00:20:50.799 But I think. 369 00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:54.380 That like to have swept the region in this way, 370 00:20:54.460 --> 00:20:58.559 the vast majority of people are actually saying, these guys 371 00:20:58.599 --> 00:20:59.220 are renegades. 372 00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:00.759 They're anti-establishment. 373 00:21:01.099 --> 00:21:04.029 I'm anti-establishment, you know, QS is too right wing, left 374 00:21:04.049 --> 00:21:04.990 wing anti-establishment for me. 375 00:21:05.029 --> 00:21:08.359 So obviously I'm going to vote for the conservatives. And, 376 00:21:08.430 --> 00:21:11.460 you know, you can tell, I think that that's why. 377 00:21:11.099 --> 00:21:14.660 In looking at situations like the fact that François Guéripé, 378 00:21:15.059 --> 00:21:18.799 who is a Radio X animator, who is running in 379 00:21:19.660 --> 00:21:23.599 Ile d'Orient, Côte de Beaupré, for the fourth party Québécois, 380 00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:26.720 like he does not get elected, but his like colleague 381 00:21:26.779 --> 00:21:27.839 Dum Dumas does. 382 00:21:28.119 --> 00:21:28.339 Right. 383 00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:30.440 And it's all a question about the banner and not 384 00:21:30.539 --> 00:21:32.019 actually what these people stand for. 385 00:21:32.200 --> 00:21:34.309 So I think that's a big part of it. 386 00:21:34.359 --> 00:21:35.559 And the

other part of it, too, is that the 387 00:21:35.579 --> 00:21:38.509 conservatives don't really stand for anything like they have what 388 00:21:38.789 --> 00:21:45.329 three policies, no tax, no tramway. And, um, I think 389 00:21:45.390 --> 00:21:48.990 like if you're someone that doesn't really want to think 390 00:21:49.069 --> 00:21:51.279 too much about politics, which most, most people don't like, 391 00:21:51.299 --> 00:21:53.200 that's not an insult. That's just like the reality of 392 00:21:53.240 --> 00:21:55.759 how voters are. Um, yeah, I want to toss in 393 00:21:55.799 --> 00:21:57.279 the end cause it's going to make my traffic faster, 394 00:21:57.299 --> 00:21:58.039 even though it won't. 395 00:21:58.420 --> 00:21:58.599 Yeah. 396 00:21:58.660 --> 00:22:00.960 I don't want the tramway because it's gonna make traffic slower, 397 00:22:00.980 --> 00:22:03.240 even though it won't. Uh, and yeah, taxes are driving 398 00:22:03.259 --> 00:22:05.069 me crazy because of the cost of, of living crisis, 399 00:22:05.089 --> 00:22:06.829 which is of course a cassette that we hear all 400 00:22:06.849 --> 00:22:10.180 the time. So, you know, Eric Duhem is definitely showing 401 00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:12.000 that like, this means that he should be the emperor 402 00:22:12.079 --> 00:22:14.119 of the region and we should do everything that he says, 403 00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:15.900 but I don't think that that's even close to what's 404 00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:16.460 happening here. 405 00:22:16.819 --> 00:22:17.140 Okay. 406 00:22:17.619 --> 00:22:20.990 And so those would be the issues you would think that, um, 407 00:22:21.630 --> 00:22:25.009 led the voters in like the capital national region to 408 00:22:25.190 --> 00:22:28.190 go for the PCQ would really be the, the troisième lien, 409 00:22:28.250 --> 00:22:31.369 the tramway. Are there any other issues that really led 410 00:22:31.430 --> 00:22:34.269 them to, to this, to voting the way that they did? 411 00:22:35.029 --> 00:22:37.109 No, and I'm not even sure that that's what led 412 00:22:37.150 --> 00:22:39.190 people to vote. I think people are just looking for 413 00:22:39.410 --> 00:22:41.990 a party to vote for. The liberals are non-entities in 414 00:22:42.009 --> 00:22:45.349 the national capital region. They did manage to win in St. Foy, 415 00:22:45.369 --> 00:22:47.109 which is a place where liberals have won before. The 416 00:22:47.130 --> 00:22:50.109 liberals don't tend to win outside of them. And these 417 00:22:50.150 --> 00:22:53.809 are all ridings that are federal conservative ridings. So I 418 00:22:53.910 --> 00:22:57.779 think that there's a level of, you know, why not? 419 00:22:57.859 --> 00:23:01.519 Why wouldn't we vote for the conservatives? Much like more than, oh, 420 00:23:01.579 --> 00:23:05.000 I totally support page three of their platform. Like, The 421 00:23:05.380 --> 00:23:08.920 only thing that Zouem has said, like he was all 422 00:23:09.049 -->

00:23:10.250 over media yesterday. 423 00:23:10.269 --> 00:23:12.490 I'm sure that you noticed this. It was kind of unbelievable. 424 00:23:13.109 --> 00:23:17.009 I literally only saw him complaining and whining and complaining 425 00:23:17.089 --> 00:23:20.779 and whining and whining and complaining about the. 426 00:23:20.259 --> 00:23:22.460 Lack of the Trois-Iliens. And the tramway. 427 00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:24.940 And then of course, like, oh, les contribuables, les contribuables, 428 00:23:24.980 --> 00:23:29.170 like lower taxes, no taxes, right? Those are the issues 429 00:23:29.289 --> 00:23:33.170 in Quebec City for the right, because they don't have 430 00:23:33.210 --> 00:23:36.630 to promise anything. There's no, like the Troisième Lien is 431 00:23:36.650 --> 00:23:38.950 like a fantasy project. And so all they have to 432 00:23:38.990 --> 00:23:40.390 do is say, yeah, we're going to do this, even 433 00:23:40.410 --> 00:23:44.150 though like there's been no plan that's like possible. Like 434 00:23:44.490 --> 00:23:46.809 there's no credible plan that we're like actually voting on 435 00:23:46.829 --> 00:23:49.349 or looking at or that city council is considering or 436 00:23:49.650 --> 00:23:50.559 government is considering. 437 00:23:51.309 --> 00:23:51.970 And so that's easy. 438 00:23:52.069 --> 00:23:54.390 And then the tramway is very easy because construction started 439 00:23:54.970 --> 00:23:58.410 and it's bugging up traffic. Like, yeah, that's what happens 440 00:23:58.430 --> 00:24:01.880 when you have a major infrastructure project, which is to 441 00:24:01.980 --> 00:24:04.460 not mention the fact that there's been road work all 442 00:24:04.519 --> 00:24:06.839 across the city in all of the suburbs, in all 443 00:24:06.859 --> 00:24:09.750 of the like small towns around Quebec city that also 444 00:24:09.809 --> 00:24:14.210 bugs up traffic because we rely too much on our car. 445 00:24:14.269 --> 00:24:15.710 Like that's the problem in this city. 446 00:24:15.730 --> 00:24:16.029 Yeah. 447 00:24:16.049 --> 00:24:16.170 Yeah. 448 00:24:17.269 --> 00:24:19.829 Um, so, you know, here in Montreal, we've heard, we 449 00:24:19.849 --> 00:24:22.000 certainly heard about the Troisième Lien, but I don't know 450 00:24:22.059 --> 00:24:25.500 if people are like super, super familiar with, cause you know, oh, 451 00:24:25.559 --> 00:24:26.759 it was off and then it was on and then 452 00:24:26.779 --> 00:24:27.960 it was off and then it was on and it's 453 00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:30.109 kind of a little bit hard to, to keep track. 454 00:24:30.119 --> 00:24:32.829 So maybe could you explain like what is going on 455 00:24:32.849 --> 00:24:36.029 with that project and why, uh, yeah, why, uh, it 456 00:24:36.069 --> 00:24:36.490 is where it is? 457 00:24:37.190 --> 00:24:39.190 Well, I actually don't know. 458 00:24:39.490 --> 00:24:41.440 I don't think it is anywhere like it is. I 459 00:24:41.920 --> 00:24:45.920 forget where it was left with the CAC, to be honest. 460 00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:49.059 The way I like to think about the Trois-Imiens is 461 00:24:49.079 --> 00:24:51.309 I had a friend that was working in government and 462 00:24:51.349 --> 00:24:53.230 his job was to just find a way to make 463 00:24:53.269 --> 00:24:56.990 it work. And he was like, it's not possible anymore. 464 00:24:57.420 --> 00:24:59.819 So for people that don't know the region or that 465 00:24:59.839 --> 00:25:03.019 don't know the issue, Quebec City is on the North Shore. 466 00:25:03.039 --> 00:25:05.240 Our South Shore is Lévis. 467 00:25:05.569 --> 00:25:09.130 There are about 800,000 people that live in that Grand 468 00:25:09.170 --> 00:25:13.390 Région Quebec. Like that's everybody. It's not a lot of people. 469 00:25:13.930 --> 00:25:16.869 Lévis is tiny. It's about 120,000 max of the Grand 470 00:25:18.210 --> 00:25:23.279 Région of Lévis. And there are currently two connections, kind 471 00:25:23.319 --> 00:25:25.990 of three connections already, between the North Shore and the 472 00:25:26.029 --> 00:25:28.750 South Shore. There are two bridges at a place where 473 00:25:28.769 --> 00:25:31.369 the river narrows, which for people that don't know is 474 00:25:31.430 --> 00:25:33.710 literally what Quebec means, right? Because then the river gets 475 00:25:33.750 --> 00:25:37.869 wide again. And then there's the. 476 00:25:37.349 --> 00:25:38.950 Traversier, there's the ferry, right? 477 00:25:38.990 --> 00:25:40.980 And so the ferry is on the east end of 478 00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:42.619 the downtown and gets you to the east end of 479 00:25:42.700 --> 00:25:44.000 Lévis and the bridges. 480 00:25:43.740 --> 00:25:45.200 Are on the west end. 481 00:25:46.500 --> 00:25:50.740 And the bridges, one is new-ish and everyone drives over 482 00:25:50.799 --> 00:25:52.500 it every single day if they're driving back and forth 483 00:25:52.519 --> 00:25:54.549 between the two cities. And the other one is the 484 00:25:54.650 --> 00:25:56.650 old railway trestle, which is the one that you might 485 00:25:56.750 --> 00:25:59.470 have like the iconic Quebec bridge in your mind. And 486 00:25:59.509 --> 00:26:02.750 that has much less capacity because it's much smaller bridge. 487 00:26:03.750 --> 00:26:05.730 And so it is easy. 488 00:26:05.509 --> 00:26:09.039 To imagine that the biggest issue in a region like 489 00:26:09.059 --> 00:26:11.519 Quebec city is I want to go from downtown Lévis 490 00:26:11.579 --> 00:26:14.940 to downtown Quebec city in as fast as possible time. Now, 491 00:26:15.319 --> 00:26:20.119 my deputy Etienne Gramont, when he was an activist with 492 00:26:20.180 --> 00:26:24.410 one of the public transit groups in town, He drove 493 00:26:24.450 --> 00:26:26.680 from downtown Lévis to downtown Quebec City to show how 494 00:26:26.700 --> 00:26:27.619 long it actually just takes. 495 00:26:27.720 --> 00:26:29.859 And it doesn't take actually that long given

how far 496 00:26:30.140 --> 00:26:30.480 it is. 497 00:26:30.579 --> 00:26:34.019 Like we can't catapult ourselves across this river. But people 498 00:26:34.059 --> 00:26:36.180 have it in their mind that it's like, oh, 35 kilometers, 499 00:26:36.180 --> 00:26:39.119 35 minutes. And if you get anywhere close to 50 minutes, 500 00:26:39.180 --> 00:26:42.650 it's too long, even though you're like, literally driving through 501 00:26:42.750 --> 00:26:46.589 two cities to get across that river. But it's psychologically 502 00:26:46.670 --> 00:26:50.960 a big moneymaker. And it's a moneymaker, a political moneymaker. 503 00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:57.980 And it's a moneymaker for parties, thanks to La Radio X, 504 00:26:58.500 --> 00:27:01.509 our trash radio system in Quebec City that has people 505 00:27:01.549 --> 00:27:03.670 stuck in their cars. And it says, you hate this traffic. 506 00:27:03.730 --> 00:27:05.869 The fault is the bridges, is the fault that there's 507 00:27:05.890 --> 00:27:10.289 not a Trois-Ilièmes-Lieng. They don't shell. They don't shell the 508 00:27:10.349 --> 00:27:13.059 fact that every intersection has a via haja gauche, whether 509 00:27:13.079 --> 00:27:15.740 or not someone is actually turning left. They don't shell 510 00:27:15.880 --> 00:27:18.460 against the fact that the highway system makes literally no sense. 511 00:27:18.740 --> 00:27:20.740 They don't shell against the fact that to go from 512 00:27:21.339 --> 00:27:25.799 the north south, you have to literally get off the 513 00:27:25.859 --> 00:27:30.119 highway and do a hairpin turn to get on to Charest, 514 00:27:30.529 --> 00:27:34.369 which is not it makes it makes no sense. 515 00:27:34.710 --> 00:27:35.710 It makes no sense. 516 00:27:36.380 --> 00:27:38.099 But they don't shell against any of that stuff because 517 00:27:38.140 --> 00:27:41.019 they want to make sure that they're selling a dream 518 00:27:41.140 --> 00:27:42.960 to people and saying, this is how we're going to 519 00:27:43.000 --> 00:27:44.019 solve our traffic problems. 520 00:27:44.640 --> 00:27:45.759 All the while, our. 521 00:27:45.700 --> 00:27:48.589 City's population is going to increase and is increasing because 522 00:27:48.619 --> 00:27:52.420 of all of the new condo developments and other developments 523 00:27:52.460 --> 00:27:55.069 in the city, which will put more cars on the street, 524 00:27:55.130 --> 00:27:58.789 which will make traffic worse. Because the real bouchon is 525 00:27:58.849 --> 00:28:00.710 not the bridges. The real bouchon is the fact that 526 00:28:00.750 --> 00:28:05.029 the downtown, the upper town, the place where everyone works... 527 00:28:05.630 --> 00:28:06.750 was built for horse and carriage. 528 00:28:07.309 --> 00:28:08.069 That's the real Bouchon. 529 00:28:08.539 --> 00:28:08.859 Yeah. 530 00:28:09.099 --> 00:28:09.319 Yeah. 531 00:28:09.430 --> 00:28:11.619 And then, you know, there's study after study that shows 532 00:28:11.680 --> 00:28:14.619 that like the more that you build infrastructure for cars, 533 00:28:15.059 --> 00:28:17.259 the more cars there are. And then therefore you don't 534 00:28:17.319 --> 00:28:20.349 actually do anything to deal with the traffic. 535 00:28:20.369 --> 00:28:20.430 So. 536 00:28:21.390 --> 00:28:24.890 It's like Catherine Dorian said, it's a line of Coke 537 00:28:25.130 --> 00:28:27.390 and it feels real good for a little bit of time, 538 00:28:27.450 --> 00:28:30.190 but it's not going to fix your overall energy problem. 539 00:28:30.490 --> 00:28:32.750 Those new episode of the week is Rover. Find it 540 00:28:32.809 --> 00:28:37.109 at therover.ca at harbingermedianetwork.com or wherever you get your podcasts. 541 00:28:37.569 --> 00:28:39.930 You're listening to Harbinger Showcase on your local campus and 542 00:28:39.970 --> 00:28:48.549 community radio station. Coming up next. Launching in October 2024, 543 00:28:48.549 --> 00:28:52.329 news criticism podcast The North State features journalist Scott Martin 544 00:28:52.490 --> 00:28:55.230 punching through the noise bi-weekly and tackling how news media 545 00:28:55.269 --> 00:28:59.079 frames issues, omits information, and pushes the status quo. Like 546 00:28:59.099 --> 00:29:01.859 on this recent episode featuring a conversation with The Maple 547 00:29:01.920 --> 00:29:06.019 News editor Alex Koch, unpacking how Zionist news coverage in 548 00:29:06.059 --> 00:29:10.559 Canadian media directs hate against pro-Palestinian voices. Now, here's the show. 549 00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:13.279 The North State is a proud member of the Harbinger 550 00:29:13.339 --> 00:29:29.420 Media Network. Welcome to the North State, the podcast that 551 00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:31.720 punches through the noise of the Canadian news media ecosystem. 552 00:29:32.240 --> 00:29:34.910 I'm your host, Scott Martin. Over the course of the 553 00:29:34.950 --> 00:29:38.349 past couple weeks, legacy news in Canada has been embroiled 554 00:29:38.589 --> 00:29:42.700 in a couple scandals. involving Zionism. Now, we're going to 555 00:29:42.759 --> 00:29:45.480 talk about multiple events here, but by the end of 556 00:29:45.500 --> 00:29:47.910 this conversation, I hope to have this episode illustrate the 557 00:29:48.190 --> 00:29:51.829 overarching theme of our news media accepting and often pushing 558 00:29:51.849 --> 00:29:54.829 this ideology. And my guest this week to help weave 559 00:29:54.849 --> 00:29:58.660 through these narratives is news editor of The Maple, Alex Koch. Alex, 560 00:29:58.960 --> 00:29:59.940 welcome back to the North State. 561 00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:00.900 Thank you for having me, Scott. 562 00:30:01.019 --> 00:30:01.759 Glad to have you. 563 00:30:02.180 --> 00:30:03.619 It's been a while since you've been on the show, 564 00:30:03.680 --> 00:30:05.799 so having you back, especially for a topic like this, 565 00:30:05.859 --> 00:30:08.180 is really, really important. But before

we begin, I would 566 00:30:08.200 --> 00:30:10.910 like to remind listeners that October is The Catch's first 567 00:30:11.089 --> 00:30:13.849 subscriber drive month, so you can head to readthecatch.ca to 568 00:30:13.890 --> 00:30:16.589 sign up for a free or paid membership, rate us 569 00:30:16.650 --> 00:30:18.670 on your podcast app of choice, and finally, if you 570 00:30:18.710 --> 00:30:22.529 are in Toronto, join myself, Desmond Cole, Samira Mouyeddin, and 571 00:30:22.589 --> 00:30:26.319 Sonia Fattah on October 27th for a live event at 572 00:30:26.339 --> 00:30:30.049 Danu's Social House. We'll discuss how the Palestinian genocide has 573 00:30:30.089 --> 00:30:33.210 not only revealed the bias in Canada's legacy news, but 574 00:30:33.309 --> 00:30:36.119 even radicalized many branches of it, and unfortunately, that's a 575 00:30:36.119 --> 00:30:39.880 very prescient topic for today's episode. So, we have a 576 00:30:39.900 --> 00:30:42.160 lot to get through, but I think with this first 577 00:30:42.200 --> 00:30:44.319 event that we'll talk about, it doesn't have any direct 578 00:30:44.440 --> 00:30:47.170 connection to the later events we'll discuss, but it does 579 00:30:47.230 --> 00:30:50.430 provide insight on how intrinsic Zionism is to a lot 580 00:30:50.450 --> 00:30:51.369 of Canadian news media. 581 00:30:51.829 --> 00:30:51.930 So. 582 00:30:52.779 --> 00:30:54.599 To set the stage for this, I think it's important 583 00:30:54.619 --> 00:30:57.599 to have a definition of Zionism because the obfuscation of 584 00:30:57.619 --> 00:31:01.259 this term is often used to justify genocide and oppression 585 00:31:01.319 --> 00:31:03.599 committed in the name of Israel. So for this, I've 586 00:31:03.660 --> 00:31:09.559 pulled the definition from decolonizepalestine.com. Quote, Zionism is a colonial 587 00:31:09.700 --> 00:31:12.880 ideology and political movement that calls for establishing a Jewish 588 00:31:12.940 --> 00:31:16.809 nation-state in Palestine with a Jewish majority. Seeing as Palestine 589 00:31:16.849 --> 00:31:19.829 was already inhabited and that there were barely any Zionists 590 00:31:19.910 --> 00:31:23.279 there before the 20th century... This necessitated the oppression and 591 00:31:23.339 --> 00:31:26.839 expulsion of the Palestinians to create the necessary conditions for 592 00:31:26.880 --> 00:31:29.920 the state, unquote. Further to this, while a Judaism without 593 00:31:29.960 --> 00:31:34.390 Zionism has existed for thousands of years, Zionism necessitates coordination 594 00:31:34.430 --> 00:31:38.769 with prominent Jewish institutions to legitimize this ethno-nationalist project. This 595 00:31:38.829 --> 00:31:41.519 is why a lot of prominent Zionists will equate anti-Zionism 596 00:31:41.559 --> 00:31:45.390 with anti-Semitism. Zionists need Judaism to be fundamental to their 597 00:31:45.410 --> 00:31:49.250 outlook to deflect from their ongoing atrocities against primarily Palestinians. 598 00:31:49.470 --> 00:31:52.410 Jewish hate to Zionists are kind of a wrench in 599 00:31:52.450 --> 00:31:56.059 this system because it kind of pokes holes in their ideas. But, 600 00:31:56.190 --> 00:31:58.640 of course, it is the most important thing in this 601 00:31:58.680 --> 00:32:01.200 discussion that when we talk about Zionism and its effects, 602 00:32:01.259 --> 00:32:03.920 we do center Palestinians who have been the main subject 603 00:32:03.960 --> 00:32:08.119 of oppression, terror, and extermination since the creation of Zionism. Now, Alex, 604 00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:10.599 I know I just laid out a lot of ideas 605 00:32:10.640 --> 00:32:12.650 there in a very short amount of time, but Do 606 00:32:12.670 --> 00:32:14.109 you have anything you'd like to add to this or 607 00:32:14.250 --> 00:32:15.349 any thoughts about what I just said? 608 00:32:15.529 --> 00:32:18.319 Yeah, one thing I really want to stress is that, 609 00:32:18.599 --> 00:32:21.519 as you mentioned, Zionism is a colonial ideology. And this 610 00:32:21.579 --> 00:32:26.619 is something that's strenuously disputed by Zionists today, particularly as 611 00:32:26.740 --> 00:32:32.259 the term colonialism is quite rightly carries negative connotations. But 612 00:32:32.440 --> 00:32:36.759 the earliest Zionist leaders in the late 19th century and 613 00:32:36.799 --> 00:32:40.519 early 20th century, they explicitly pitched their project as a 614 00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:42.539 colonial one in nature when they were trying to win 615 00:32:42.640 --> 00:32:47.349 over European patrons and backers. So to suggest that it's 616 00:32:47.400 --> 00:32:51.150 not a colonial ideology, I just think obscures this basic 617 00:32:51.190 --> 00:32:55.529 historic fact. And of course, most importantly, the fact of 618 00:32:55.769 --> 00:32:58.869 ethnic majoritarianism really is an inherent part of this project. 619 00:32:59.420 --> 00:33:01.920 And that's why the state of Israel today, which is 620 00:33:01.960 --> 00:33:05.500 what the state that Zionism gave birth to, it maintains 621 00:33:05.539 --> 00:33:09.079 a constitutionally entrenched system of apartheid that assures this continued 622 00:33:09.119 --> 00:33:15.119 demographic majority of Jews over Palestinians. So, you know, these 623 00:33:15.160 --> 00:33:18.289 things are all intimately intertwined and are intrinsic to the 624 00:33:18.329 --> 00:33:19.049 Zionist project. 625 00:33:19.640 --> 00:33:23.109 And you'll often hear that talking point, not overtly acknowledged, 626 00:33:23.150 --> 00:33:26.730 but sometimes when, you know, anti-Zionists are asked, do you 627 00:33:26.769 --> 00:33:29.009 believe Israel has the right to exist as a Jewish state? 628 00:33:29.380 --> 00:33:31.140 that gives away the game. 629 00:33:31.740 --> 00:33:32.559 A Jewish state is. 630 00:33:32.519 --> 00:33:36.200 By definition an ethno-nationalist state. And, you know, if you 631 00:33:36.220 -->

00:33:39.140 pitched anything else, like, do you think that, you know, 632 00:33:39.400 --> 00:33:42.430 Germans have the right to a German state? It really 633 00:33:42.650 --> 00:33:45.309 is just disproportionate there. So I'm glad that you added 634 00:33:45.329 --> 00:33:47.750 that context. And I think that this is something that 635 00:33:47.809 --> 00:33:53.099 unfortunately we are nearing three years into a genocide against Palestinians, 636 00:33:53.400 --> 00:33:57.410 a genocide that is not new. It has popped up 637 00:33:57.450 --> 00:34:01.349 in many forms before, but has been absolutely radicalized since 638 00:34:01.450 --> 00:34:04.230 October 7th. So it's unfortunate that we still need to 639 00:34:04.289 --> 00:34:06.609 have this conversation, but I think a lot of what 640 00:34:06.630 --> 00:34:08.289 we're going to talk about today is why we still 641 00:34:08.329 --> 00:34:11.199 need to talk about these things. So with all that 642 00:34:11.260 --> 00:34:13.340 preamble out of the way, the first event I want 643 00:34:13.360 --> 00:34:16.599 to talk about is how Warren Kinsella of the Toronto 644 00:34:16.639 --> 00:34:21.760 Sun spun a CBC journalist misrepresenting an event, a protest, 645 00:34:22.460 --> 00:34:25.980 and his suspension of as a result of that, apparently 646 00:34:26.059 --> 00:34:28.550 is anti-Semitic. So there's a lot to go through, and 647 00:34:28.570 --> 00:34:30.869 this happened a couple weeks ago. But on September 21st, 648 00:34:30.989 --> 00:34:33.710 Mark Regev, who is a former Israeli ambassador to the UK, 649 00:34:34.150 --> 00:34:36.750 and he was a senior advisor to Benjamin Netanyahu, he 650 00:34:36.769 --> 00:34:39.389 was set to speak at a Songshul event in Toronto. 651 00:34:39.570 --> 00:34:41.369 I'm going to pull a lot of information about Regev 652 00:34:41.409 --> 00:34:45.050 from a Just Peace Advocates call to action, but among 653 00:34:45.110 --> 00:34:49.530 other things, Regev has defended Israel killing UN workers in 2006. 654 00:34:49.530 --> 00:34:53.139 invented deaths of Israeli soldiers on the BBC in 2013, 655 00:34:53.139 --> 00:34:57.699 advocated for a complete annexation of Palestinian land. Long story short, 656 00:34:57.719 --> 00:35:01.019 he's a propagandist for Israel, and he's even mocked Palestinian 657 00:35:01.059 --> 00:35:04.900 torture victims and denied Israel's responsibility for the Flower Massacre. 658 00:35:05.219 --> 00:35:08.340 Ahead of this event, it was advertised as Israel at 659 00:35:08.380 --> 00:35:11.090 a crossroads, featuring him as a speaker. Now, there was 660 00:35:11.139 --> 00:35:15.199 apparently a Yom Kippur service planned at this event, My 661 00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:17.360 understanding from what I can read is that that wasn't 662 00:35:17.420 --> 00:35:19.659 front and center, but I cannot confirm or deny this. 663 00:35:19.780 --> 00:35:22.840 Apparently a lot of things before this event kind of 664 00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:26.300 gained national attention, have been scrubbed from the internet. That's 665 00:35:26.340 --> 00:35:29.269 just what I've heard. Again, can't confirm or deny. Anyway, 666 00:35:29.309 --> 00:35:32.050 the protesters arrived, and as they were protesting, they shouted 667 00:35:32.190 --> 00:35:37.179 pro-Palestinian slogans. Neil Herland, who is a CBC journalist, recorded them. 668 00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:40.380 posted a clip on X, and described the event as a, quote, 669 00:35:40.539 --> 00:35:44.280 synagogue service. Due to this not being entirely accurate, and 670 00:35:44.539 --> 00:35:46.059 we'll go into a little bit of why it's not 671 00:35:46.119 --> 00:35:49.340 entirely inaccurate, it's kind of like a weird area there, 672 00:35:49.460 --> 00:35:52.230 but because of this in the video obscuring the main 673 00:35:52.309 --> 00:35:55.550 purpose of the event, which was Mark Regev speaking, CBC 674 00:35:55.590 --> 00:35:59.079 News suspended him. Alex, again, that's a lot. Is there 675 00:35:59.139 --> 00:36:02.380 anything I'm missing before we get to the article by Kinsella? 676 00:36:02.559 --> 00:36:04.619 No, I think those are all the basic facts as 677 00:36:04.679 --> 00:36:05.739 they're laid out. 678 00:36:05.980 --> 00:36:06.219 Yeah. 679 00:36:06.260 --> 00:36:08.219 And I think it's important to note as well that 680 00:36:08.260 --> 00:36:12.719 the actual venue of the event, its primary use was 681 00:36:12.760 --> 00:36:15.469 not as a synagogue building. I believe it's the Meridian 682 00:36:15.670 --> 00:36:17.590 Art Center. Have I named that correctly? 683 00:36:17.610 --> 00:36:18.309 I believe so, yes. 684 00:36:18.409 --> 00:36:18.670 Yeah. 685 00:36:18.730 --> 00:36:20.849 So, I mean, I think it's important to stress that. And, 686 00:36:21.349 --> 00:36:23.889 you know, the protesters who were there were gathered together. 687 00:36:24.150 --> 00:36:27.210 And they had explicitly said so beforehand, precisely because Mark 688 00:36:27.250 --> 00:36:30.809 Regev was due to speak there. It wasn't because there 689 00:36:30.829 --> 00:36:32.630 was a Yom Kippur service happening there. 690 00:36:33.610 --> 00:36:35.730 And again, it is important that we bring up that 691 00:36:35.750 --> 00:36:37.719 there was a service happening, but that was not the 692 00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:39.969 main purpose of the event. And that was not why 693 00:36:39.989 --> 00:36:43.619 people were protesting. So with all this information out there, 694 00:36:43.739 --> 00:36:47.340 I do want to go into basically the article that 695 00:36:47.400 --> 00:36:51.900 I don't know if it has dominated necessarily the coverage 696 00:36:51.920 --> 00:36:53.519 of this, but it has set the tone for it. 697 00:36:53.900 --> 00:36:55.940 And a lot of other outlets like the Times of Israel, 698 00:36:56.360 --> 00:36:59.460 Jerusalem Post, Fox News have kind of followed this framing. 699 00:37:00.039 --> 00:37:03.469 And here's how

Kinsella introduces this event in his article. Quote, 700 00:37:03.769 --> 00:37:06.809 Neil Herland is an award-winning senior CBC journalist and producer 701 00:37:06.829 --> 00:37:10.329 with three decades of experience reporting news across North America. 702 00:37:10.469 --> 00:37:13.909 He is also a Jew. A few days ago, CBC 703 00:37:13.969 --> 00:37:17.199 management quietly pulled Herland off the air because he had 704 00:37:17.300 --> 00:37:21.940 documented a newsworthy event. One they apparently didn't want documented. 705 00:37:22.239 --> 00:37:25.320 So this event, goes into the whole article, and I 706 00:37:25.360 --> 00:37:26.980 will link into the show notes if you want to 707 00:37:27.019 --> 00:37:33.300 do that to yourself, but essentially describing the protesters as anti-Semitic, 708 00:37:33.699 --> 00:37:37.579 as the event to specifically target a Yom Kippur service. 709 00:37:38.079 --> 00:37:41.659 And the reason that this synagogue service is inaccurate and 710 00:37:41.679 --> 00:37:43.969 a little accurate, it It is a synagogue service at 711 00:37:44.010 --> 00:37:46.329 a place that is not a synagogue. So that does happen. 712 00:37:46.630 --> 00:37:48.960 Religious communities, and it's not just Jewish people, but religious 713 00:37:48.980 --> 00:37:52.480 communities will hold religious ceremonies at events that are not 714 00:37:52.659 --> 00:37:57.159 their places of worship. But clearly, portraying this as a 715 00:37:57.579 --> 00:38:02.750 synagogue service, not mentioning Mark Regev, not mentioning the purpose 716 00:38:03.090 --> 00:38:08.030 of the protests, paints these protesters... as anti-Semitic. And of course, 717 00:38:08.070 --> 00:38:10.110 the rest of the article kind of pushes this line, 718 00:38:10.300 --> 00:38:12.280 and this is something, like I said, it's mentioned in 719 00:38:12.360 --> 00:38:16.519 international outlets and right-wing outlets along the same lines, that 720 00:38:16.659 --> 00:38:19.909 Jewish people were targeted for their Jewishness, and these protesters, 721 00:38:20.250 --> 00:38:23.050 whatever claims they may have to being against a genocide, 722 00:38:23.210 --> 00:38:25.469 are actually anti-Semitic, and it centers that. 723 00:38:25.570 --> 00:38:25.690 So. 724 00:38:26.550 --> 00:38:28.670 Alex, I know that The Maple has done a lot 725 00:38:28.710 --> 00:38:31.210 of reporting on news narratives like this. What's your read 726 00:38:31.469 --> 00:38:34.360 on how we've been talking about this event for the 727 00:38:34.400 --> 00:38:34.840 past two weeks? 728 00:38:35.039 --> 00:38:36.760 Well, what I want to say right off the bat 729 00:38:36.920 --> 00:38:40.619 is whether or not this was a synagogue, you know, 730 00:38:40.780 --> 00:38:43.219 either in a kind of ad hoc sense in the 731 00:38:43.260 --> 00:38:45.210 sense that the service was being held there or whether 732 00:38:45.269 --> 00:38:48.210 its primary use as a building was a synagogue is 733

00:38:48.389 --> 00:38:51.829 actually irrelevant because regardless of what the building is or 734 00:38:51.869 --> 00:38:55.059 what its primary purpose for, The subject of the protest 735 00:38:55.179 --> 00:38:59.289 was the activities going on inside that structure. We've seen 736 00:38:59.369 --> 00:39:04.469 similar protests outside of buildings that are primarily synagogues when 737 00:39:04.550 --> 00:39:09.130 there have been land sales of Palestinian territory illegally occupied 738 00:39:09.170 --> 00:39:12.599 by Israel and the events offering real estate advice for 739 00:39:12.679 --> 00:39:17.449 purchases of those lands. That's kind of irrelevant to me, 740 00:39:17.869 --> 00:39:21.159 whether or not the protest should be there. The question is, 741 00:39:21.219 --> 00:39:24.079 what is the subject protesters are there to counter? And 742 00:39:24.099 --> 00:39:26.639 I think these are entirely legitimate things to you know, 743 00:39:26.739 --> 00:39:30.079 exercise their free speech rights against. And this is exactly why, 744 00:39:30.099 --> 00:39:32.360 and I, you know, I can't pretend to know if 745 00:39:32.420 --> 00:39:35.059 this is the kind of agenda that Herland himself is 746 00:39:35.119 --> 00:39:38.219 knowingly advancing. But what I can say is that the 747 00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:41.980 pro-Israel lobby more generally and pro-Israel voices have been pushing 748 00:39:42.019 --> 00:39:47.949 for legislation that criminalizes and or restricts protest activities outside 749 00:39:48.010 --> 00:39:51.789 of religious community or community buildings of that nature the 750 00:39:51.829 --> 00:39:56.269 goal is effectively to use synagogues and such buildings as 751 00:39:56.690 --> 00:40:01.099 shields or as cover for activities to advance support for 752 00:40:01.420 --> 00:40:03.659 Israel that I believe is a very serious threat to 753 00:40:04.260 --> 00:40:07.179 our charter rights, and the ability of the pro-Palestine movement 754 00:40:07.219 --> 00:40:10.559 to hold our government and public institutions and civic society 755 00:40:10.599 --> 00:40:14.579 organizations accountable for supporting a state that is engaged in genocide. 756 00:40:14.719 --> 00:40:16.019 And I do think it is important to bring that 757 00:40:16.059 --> 00:40:19.010 up because this is something that these illegal land sales 758 00:40:19.030 --> 00:40:21.909 that have happened at synagogues have spurred a huge debate 759 00:40:22.090 --> 00:40:24.090 across the country, but mainly in Toronto, where we now 760 00:40:24.150 --> 00:40:29.250 have legislation for bubble zones around places of worship. and 761 00:40:29.510 --> 00:40:32.869 focusing the legislation on places of worship instead of the 762 00:40:33.050 --> 00:40:36.150 actual events that are going on there, which are illegal 763 00:40:36.190 --> 00:40:39.219 by international law, a law that Canada has signed up to. 764 00:40:39.489 --> 00:40:43.340 I think it's a very unfortunately effective play of hand 765 00:40:43.480 --> 00:40:47.539 where we see that Zionism is protected because it is 766 00:40:47.900 --> 00:40:51.900 inherently tied to Judaism. Now, it doesn't matter how many 767 00:40:51.940 --> 00:40:55.159 Jewish people are anti-Zionist, which is certainly growing in recent years, 768 00:40:55.199 --> 00:40:59.449 and it doesn't matter that really any group committing a 769 00:40:59.469 --> 00:41:03.230 genocide of this scale should not be shielded from criticism 770 00:41:03.570 --> 00:41:08.079 or condemnation or, God forbid, prison terms or anything like that. 771 00:41:08.500 --> 00:41:10.739 So I think it's a very illustrative example, especially in 772 00:41:10.760 --> 00:41:13.739 the news media sphere, where CBC News, I don't like 773 00:41:13.880 --> 00:41:16.739 handing it to our public broadcaster a lot of times 774 00:41:16.780 --> 00:41:21.590 because they often do push similar narratives, either consciously or subconsciously. 775 00:41:22.050 --> 00:41:27.739 But presenting this event in this light, in a viral format, with, 776 00:41:28.000 --> 00:41:30.559 if you want to say maybe the language was accurate, 777 00:41:31.000 --> 00:41:34.860 I suppose so, but the framing was clearly not journalistic. 778 00:41:34.940 --> 00:41:37.590 It was not journalistic framing to present this event as 779 00:41:37.630 --> 00:41:40.909 a neutral Yom Kippur service or a synagogue service. This 780 00:41:40.989 --> 00:41:44.670 is someone who has repeatedly lied in service of Israel's 781 00:41:44.829 --> 00:41:49.349 aims and said things that are truly abhorrent against Palestinians, 782 00:41:49.389 --> 00:41:53.070 denying flower massacres, and I It's been a bit of 783 00:41:53.090 --> 00:41:55.880 a struggle. There has been a lot more awareness of 784 00:41:56.019 --> 00:41:58.239 Israel's genocide of Palestinians in the past few years. But 785 00:41:58.280 --> 00:42:02.500 since the quote-unquote ceasefire, the news media coverage has dropped 786 00:42:02.539 --> 00:42:05.320 quite a bit. And again, every time I mention it, 787 00:42:05.360 --> 00:42:08.329 it is not actually a ceasefire. because Israel has violated 788 00:42:08.369 --> 00:42:12.570 it repeatedly. Hundreds of Palestinians are killed, and it's quite disgusting. 789 00:42:12.630 --> 00:42:16.409 But when we see this as nearly the only touchpoint 790 00:42:16.949 --> 00:42:20.480 of the genocide in the news media sphere, it creates 791 00:42:20.539 --> 00:42:25.159 this idea that, well, even though the attacks on Palestine 792 00:42:25.219 --> 00:42:28.699 have subsided, these people are still raging anti-Semites. This is 793 00:42:28.760 --> 00:42:33.920 clearly a Zionist-dominated framing pushed in right-wing media like Toronto Sun. 794 00:42:34.840 --> 00:42:38.400 that filters out to other right-wing news. So in terms 795 00:42:38.440 --> 00:42:41.860 of our broader landscape, just like, should we be expecting 796 00:42:42.000

--> 00:42:44.150 more at this point that we have three years of 797 00:42:44.190 --> 00:42:47.949 concerted criticism of coverage? We've all seen the videos on 798 00:42:47.989 --> 00:42:51.929 our news media feeds and we still have this debate 799 00:42:52.070 --> 00:42:55.219 raging primarily as like a concerted effort to distract from 800 00:42:55.260 --> 00:42:55.840 the genocide. 801 00:42:56.199 --> 00:42:59.159 Oh, 100%. And I think that's a very deliberate strategy 802 00:42:59.239 --> 00:43:03.280 by pro-Israel voices in Canada to you notice now, you 803 00:43:03.320 --> 00:43:08.000 look at statements, official statements put out by pro-Israel MPs 804 00:43:08.260 --> 00:43:12.429 or organizations or lobby groups, the emphasis now is much 805 00:43:12.570 --> 00:43:16.170 less in their public-facing statements on whether or not Canada 806 00:43:16.230 --> 00:43:20.239 is supporting Israel's specific war efforts or whether those groups 807 00:43:20.280 --> 00:43:25.460 are trying to justify Israel's genocidal massacre of Palestinians. The 808 00:43:25.619 --> 00:43:30.880 emphasis now is overwhelmingly on oh, the safety of Jews 809 00:43:30.929 --> 00:43:33.820 in Canada. And I think that does two things. One, 810 00:43:34.099 --> 00:43:37.300 as you say, it distracts from what really should be 811 00:43:37.340 --> 00:43:40.059 the main point of attention is that potentially hundreds of thousands, 812 00:43:40.079 --> 00:43:42.889 we don't know the actual death toll yet, of Palestinians 813 00:43:42.909 --> 00:43:47.050 have been exterminated in the name of a ethno-nationalist, racist 814 00:43:47.090 --> 00:43:51.079 political ideology. But also, There is a specific legislative goal 815 00:43:51.119 --> 00:43:54.400 here which is to advance new laws which further restrict 816 00:43:54.440 --> 00:43:59.619 and criminalize protest activity which serves to hamstring the pro-Palestine 817 00:43:59.659 --> 00:44:02.610 movement in Canada and therefore makes it more difficult for 818 00:44:02.630 --> 00:44:05.550 that movement to exert pressure on the government or on 819 00:44:05.610 --> 00:44:08.949 civil society organizations to cut off support for the genocide. 820 00:44:09.230 --> 00:44:12.050 Now pro-Israel groups that they haven't given up on trying 821 00:44:12.090 --> 00:44:14.889 to get the government to support Israel during these massacres 822 00:44:15.780 --> 00:44:17.679 I have no doubt they're bringing this up in their 823 00:44:17.929 --> 00:44:21.050 regular meetings with government officials or MPs and so forth. 824 00:44:21.550 --> 00:44:25.889 But their public-facing message, which has filtered out to right-wing 825 00:44:25.909 --> 00:44:30.889 news publications, to columnists, to social media, the overwhelming focus 826 00:44:30.929 --> 00:44:34.659 now is what they call a crisis of rising anti-Semitism. 827 00:44:34.920 --> 00:44:38.460 The goal is to curtail civil liberties and to restrict 828 00:44:38.480 --> 00:44:40.800 the ability of people trying to cut off support for 829 00:44:40.820 --> 00:44:41.380 the genocide. 830 00:44:41.559 --> 00:44:44.019 There's an excerpt from a recent episode of The North State. 831 00:44:44.820 --> 00:44:48.400 Find new episodes at hostscottmartinsthecatch.ca sub-stack and hear the rest 832 00:44:48.420 --> 00:44:52.059 of the conversation at harbingermedianetwork.com. You're listening to Harbinger Showcase 833 00:44:52.099 --> 00:44:54.980 on your local campus and community radio station. I'm Harbinger 834 00:44:55.000 --> 00:45:07.780 Director Andre Goulet in Montreal. And finally... Since launching in 835 00:45:07.820 --> 00:45:12.139 October 2022, Sources has provided in-depth interviews with experts and 836 00:45:12.280 --> 00:45:16.469 newsmakers across the country... from the award-winning journalist at Press Progress. 837 00:45:17.050 --> 00:45:20.269 On this excerpt from a recent episode, Ontario correspondent Eric 838 00:45:20.389 --> 00:45:22.949 Wickham and Tech Won't Save Us host Paris Marks take 839 00:45:22.989 --> 00:45:25.920 listeners inside the fight against data centres in Canada in 840 00:45:25.940 --> 00:45:29.159 a conversation about the growing number of municipalities pushing back 841 00:45:29.400 --> 00:45:31.900 in their communities. Now, here's the show. 842 00:45:33.800 --> 00:45:39.929 You're listening to Sources. I'm Ontario reporter Eric Wickham. About 843 00:45:39.929 --> 00:45:42.489 40 minutes west of downtown Toronto is one of the 844 00:45:42.530 --> 00:45:47.780 largest suburbs in North America, Mississauga. Mississauga City Hall is 845 00:45:47.840 --> 00:45:51.300 a set of concrete sandstone-coloured buildings. It was built in 846 00:45:51.340 --> 00:45:53.760 this postmodern style that really makes it stand out from 847 00:45:53.800 --> 00:45:57.590 its surroundings, which is mostly glass condos and parking lots. 848 00:45:59.130 --> 00:46:02.889 It's also shaped like a barn. I visited this city 849 00:46:02.989 --> 00:46:07.349 of 750,000 people, my hometown. on the morning of September 850 00:46:07.789 --> 00:46:09.869 16th to see how city council would choose to vote 851 00:46:10.050 --> 00:46:13.300 on an interim control bylaw that would pause data center 852 00:46:13.320 --> 00:46:28.090 projects above 10 megawatts for the next year. What you're 853 00:46:28.119 --> 00:46:31.630 hearing is the anti-data center activists getting ready for the 854 00:46:31.670 --> 00:46:34.389 council meeting on the steps at the north entrance to 855 00:46:34.429 --> 00:46:38.539 Mississauga City Hall. The person speaking is Ashley, one of 856 00:46:38.559 --> 00:46:42.119 the key organizers explaining what is about to happen later 857 00:46:42.139 --> 00:46:45.130 in the day. But before we get into this story, 858 00:46:45.829 --> 00:46:46.469 there's a lot. 859 00:46:46.329 --> 00:46:46.849 You need to know. 860 00:46:49.210 --> 00:46:53.309 In late 2025, an American company, Prologis,

filed an application 861 00:46:53.349 --> 00:46:57.110 to build a 35-megawatt co-location data center in North Mississauga 862 00:46:57.170 --> 00:47:01.320 on Tenth Line, just south of the 401. The proposal 863 00:47:01.360 --> 00:47:05.260 has since been updated to a 40-megawatt facility. A data 864 00:47:05.300 --> 00:47:09.699 center essentially hosts the cloud. They are warehouses full of 865 00:47:09.760 --> 00:47:13.219 computers that store personal data from the internet and are 866 00:47:13.239 --> 00:47:17.179 integral for the internet and artificial intelligence to function. A 867 00:47:17.199 --> 00:47:20.469 co-location data center is one where the owner rents out 868 00:47:20.489 --> 00:47:25.829 the space to other companies. Data centers are everywhere. But lately, 869 00:47:25.869 --> 00:47:29.010 they're getting much bigger, their impact is getting much more noticeable, 870 00:47:29.429 --> 00:47:33.440 and as a result, the backlash to these facilities is growing. 871 00:47:34.059 --> 00:47:36.820 This year, This fight has made its way to many 872 00:47:36.880 --> 00:47:39.780 cities in Canada. I'm sure you've seen some things about 873 00:47:39.800 --> 00:47:43.260 the fight in Hamilton, Vancouver, or somewhere else. 874 00:47:44.079 --> 00:47:46.719 Oakville has become the first municipality in the province to 875 00:47:46.780 --> 00:47:49.050 impose a moratorium on building new data centers. 876 00:47:50.699 --> 00:47:54.420 Hundreds rallied Saturday to protest the construction of two new 877 00:47:54.679 --> 00:47:56.960 AI data centres coming to Vancouver. 878 00:47:57.039 --> 00:47:59.980 Hamilton City Council is expected to vote on. 879 00:47:59.940 --> 00:48:01.400 The one-year moratorium. 880 00:48:01.780 --> 00:48:04.860 And Hamilton City Council has rejected a motion that called 881 00:48:04.900 --> 00:48:08.179 for a one-year moratorium on data centres. 882 00:48:08.460 --> 00:48:10.960 Here in the outskirts of Mississauga, this land behind me 883 00:48:11.099 --> 00:48:13.980 is the latest site of a proposed AI data centre. 884 00:48:14.599 --> 00:48:18.619 But as Ontario municipalities receive more of these applications, officials 885 00:48:18.820 --> 00:48:19.860 are struggling to keep up. 886 00:48:20.630 --> 00:48:23.070 Now, as you know, Canada is in a bit of 887 00:48:23.110 --> 00:48:26.320 a dispute with its largest trading partner, the United States. 888 00:48:27.159 --> 00:48:29.039 This may be part of the reason that the provincial 889 00:48:29.119 --> 00:48:32.480 and federal governments seem to be all in on data 890 00:48:32.500 --> 00:48:35.159 center investment. A pitch deck from the federal government for 891 00:48:35.280 --> 00:48:39.739 AI investors called Canada an emerging data center powerhouse and 892 00:48:39.969 --> 00:48:43.349 the foremost destination for new data centers. This deck was 893 00:48:43.429 --> 00:48:46.150 circulated to activists, and I got my hands on a 894 00:48:46.190 --> 00:48:49.070 copy as well. Some proponents of data centers argue that 895 00:48:49.130 --> 00:48:53.380 digital sovereignty, Getting Canadian data out of America and on 896 00:48:53.420 --> 00:48:56.639 Canadian soil is part of the reason to build data centers. 897 00:48:57.099 --> 00:48:59.480 It's not that simple, but we'll come back to that. 898 00:48:59.920 --> 00:49:03.119 Considering the impacts and the massive pushback this industry is seeing, 899 00:49:03.860 --> 00:49:06.809 one might wonder why any government would want this technology 900 00:49:07.030 --> 00:49:10.590 in their backyard. Simon Enoch from the Canadian Centre for 901 00:49:10.650 --> 00:49:14.309 Policy Alternatives told me there's a pretty simple explanation, actually. 902 00:49:15.449 --> 00:49:15.690 Money. 903 00:49:16.250 --> 00:49:18.909 I think what you have now amongst particularly municipal governments, 904 00:49:18.969 --> 00:49:38.820 even provincial governments, These are difficult things for municipalities to 905 00:49:38.860 --> 00:49:41.239 turn down in economically uncertain times. 906 00:49:42.039 --> 00:49:45.829 But there are reasons behind people not wanting unregulated data 907 00:49:45.869 --> 00:49:47.130 centers in their towns. 908 00:49:47.789 --> 00:49:49.550 I think what we need now more than ever is 909 00:49:49.590 --> 00:49:52.949 a pause on data center construction, especially in the places 910 00:49:52.989 --> 00:49:55.809 where we don't have the rules in place, the frameworks 911 00:49:55.869 --> 00:49:57.920 in place to make sure that these data centers are 912 00:49:57.960 --> 00:50:00.920 being constructed in a way that is in line with 913 00:50:00.980 --> 00:50:05.079 what the community can handle. These sorts of regulations are essential, 914 00:50:05.300 --> 00:50:07.019 and that means that we need to take a pause 915 00:50:07.059 --> 00:50:10.710 before approving any of these data centers to make sure that, 916 00:50:10.869 --> 00:50:12.730 you know, we have the structures in place to build 917 00:50:12.769 --> 00:50:16.329 them responsibly, sustainably. And, you know, if they don't kind 918 00:50:16.369 --> 00:50:18.670 of meet the criteria, then they don't get built at all, right? 919 00:50:18.909 --> 00:50:22.210 That's Paris Marks, a tech critic, the author of the 920 00:50:22.289 --> 00:50:25.809 upcoming book, Hyperscale, and the podcast Tech Won't Save Us. 921 00:50:26.280 --> 00:50:28.760 Full disclosure, I produced Tech Won't Save. 922 00:50:28.619 --> 00:50:29.239 Us for years. 923 00:50:29.699 --> 00:50:32.139 Paris is a good friend of mine. Paris is also 924 00:50:32.199 --> 00:50:33.659 one of the best people in the world to talk 925 00:50:33.719 --> 00:50:35.519 to about data centers. 926 00:50:35.900 --> 00:50:37.760 You know, we see in plenty of other places around 927 00:50:37.800 --> 00:50:40.000 the world where there has been a lot of data 928 00:50:40.019 --> 00:50:42.199 center investment, or at least a lot

compared to their 929 00:50:42.239 --> 00:50:45.300 capacity to, you know, kind of handle that amount of 930 00:50:45.340 --> 00:50:48.289 data center investment. Places like Ireland or Chile are kind 931 00:50:48.309 --> 00:50:50.849 of on the forefront of these fights. And so when 932 00:50:50.869 --> 00:50:53.449 you look at them specifically, you can look over to 933 00:50:53.590 --> 00:50:55.929 Ireland and see that you have had a lot of 934 00:50:55.969 --> 00:50:58.730 data centers set up such that more than 20% of 935 00:50:58.889 --> 00:51:01.570 all the electricity of the country now goes to data centers, 936 00:51:01.590 --> 00:51:03.789 which is just like a staggering thing to see. 937 00:51:04.239 --> 00:51:04.860 Imagine, right? 938 00:51:04.900 --> 00:51:08.059 And obviously that then creates issues with the electrical grid 939 00:51:08.099 --> 00:51:10.659 where not only do prices go up because people have 940 00:51:10.679 --> 00:51:12.730 to pay more because of all the demand from data 941 00:51:12.769 --> 00:51:16.550 centers and the investment and infrastructure and generation capacity that 942 00:51:16.610 --> 00:51:18.650 is needed to keep up with them. But, you know, 943 00:51:18.670 --> 00:51:21.250 there's also threats to the resilience of the grid because 944 00:51:21.289 --> 00:51:22.849 there is such a high demand that comes from the 945 00:51:22.869 --> 00:51:23.449 data centers. 946 00:51:23.590 --> 00:51:25.949 Just to be clear, these issues have come from having 947 00:51:26.050 --> 00:51:29.000 more than one large data center. And many of the 948 00:51:29.039 --> 00:51:32.260 issues are stemming from these new hyperscale data centers. which 949 00:51:32.300 --> 00:51:35.579 have a peak power draw of 100 megawatts or more. 950 00:51:35.900 --> 00:51:39.300 The data center proposed in Mississauga by Prologis is only 951 00:51:39.340 --> 00:51:42.539 a 40 megawatt data center, bigger than anything in the 952 00:51:42.559 --> 00:51:44.780 city currently, but not as big as some of the 953 00:51:44.900 --> 00:51:47.880 ones we've seen in other places. But the problem these 954 00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:51.119 activists are trying to address is the lack of regulation 955 00:51:51.460 --> 00:51:55.440 for these massive pieces of digital infrastructure. Because even though 956 00:51:55.539 --> 00:51:58.039 advocates think it's better that Prologis is planning to use 957 00:51:58.079 --> 00:52:01.559 a closed-loop water system, rather than the evaporative systems that 958 00:52:01.599 --> 00:52:03.900 are cheaper to build and exact a heavier toll on 959 00:52:03.920 --> 00:52:07.159 the people living there, nothing is stopping the next company 960 00:52:07.510 --> 00:52:10.949 from not following their lead. Paris says that there are 961 00:52:11.050 --> 00:52:12.050 consequences to this. 962 00:52:12.489 --> 00:52:14.449 You can look to many places, right? Like, I think 963 00:52:14.590 --> 00:52:16.570 Ireland really stands out as one. You know, it is 964 00:52:16.610 --> 00:52:19.159 kind of the site in Europe that has really become 965 00:52:19.219 --> 00:52:21.920 home to so many of these tech companies because of 966 00:52:22.139 --> 00:52:24.500 low taxes and low regulation and those sorts of things. 967 00:52:24.920 --> 00:52:26.440 And then, of course, they wanted to bring their data 968 00:52:26.460 --> 00:52:30.170 centers along as well. The Environmental Protection Agency in Ireland 969 00:52:30.210 --> 00:52:32.530 has said that, you know, their climate targets are basically 970 00:52:32.570 --> 00:52:35.449 like out the window because all of these data centers 971 00:52:35.630 --> 00:52:38.530 are not just using up all the renewables that are 972 00:52:38.570 --> 00:52:41.090 getting added to the grid, but also using a ton 973 00:52:41.130 --> 00:52:46.079 of new natural gas generation in order to power their expansion, essentially, right? 974 00:52:46.099 --> 00:52:49.059 So creating more emissions in the process, but also making 975 00:52:49.099 --> 00:52:51.340 sure that because you're using up all the new renewables 976 00:52:51.380 --> 00:52:53.800 that are getting added, That none of the existing fossil 977 00:52:53.840 --> 00:52:56.820 fuels can actually be decommissioned, right? Because you need so 978 00:52:56.880 --> 00:52:58.420 much additional electricity. 979 00:52:58.539 --> 00:53:01.199 Paris added that pushback is needed to make companies that 980 00:53:01.280 --> 00:53:03.650 build data centers act more responsibly. 981 00:53:03.869 --> 00:53:05.769 You know, you see them coming to our communities, you 982 00:53:05.809 --> 00:53:07.909 see them recognizing that there's going to be pushback. And 983 00:53:07.929 --> 00:53:10.929 so they're already, you know, making certain concessions, whether it 984 00:53:10.969 --> 00:53:13.030 is on water use, whether it is on paying for 985 00:53:13.170 --> 00:53:15.710 power infrastructure, all this kind of stuff to try to 986 00:53:15.769 --> 00:53:19.710 get a bit more community acceptability. But, you know, as 987 00:53:19.730 --> 00:53:22.090 we're seeing across Canada, there's still a lot of pushback 988 00:53:22.469 --> 00:53:25.489 to the location of these data centers in many communities 989 00:53:25.550 --> 00:53:26.190 across the country. 990 00:53:27.250 --> 00:53:29.550 I'm taking you back to City Hall, where I met 991 00:53:29.590 --> 00:53:32.360 with some of the people providing this pushback. Around 8.50 a.m., 992 00:53:33.800 --> 00:53:37.739 I saw the first anti-data center activist, Kristen, at the 993 00:53:37.820 --> 00:53:41.760 north entrance to the barn-shaped city hall. Kristen was holding 994 00:53:41.800 --> 00:53:44.469 a sign that said, don't kill our city for data centers. 995 00:53:44.969 --> 00:53:47.349 I introduced myself and told her why I was there. 996 00:53:47.829 --> 00:53:49.929 I was wearing a lanyard with an ID card to 997 00:53:50.010 --> 00:53:52.570 mark

me as a journalist, but I think it just 998 00:53:52.610 --> 00:53:54.250 made me look like I worked at city hall to 999 00:53:54.289 --> 00:53:58.409 most people. As we talked, security approached, informing Kristen that 1000 00:53:58.489 --> 00:54:01.090 she was allowed to protest and but she would not 1001 00:54:01.170 --> 00:54:04.489 be allowed to bring her sign into council chambers, a 1002 00:54:04.530 --> 00:54:07.590 building shaped like a grain silo. Being a nosy reporter, 1003 00:54:07.710 --> 00:54:10.960 I asked, what bylaw exactly prevents people bringing in signs? 1004 00:54:11.320 --> 00:54:13.639 Security gave me the number of their superior and told 1005 00:54:13.679 --> 00:54:16.840 me to ask them. This interaction sort of set the 1006 00:54:16.880 --> 00:54:20.500 tone for the whole day. More activists gathered at the 1007 00:54:20.539 --> 00:54:23.610 steps to the entrance to City Hall, including Ashley, the 1008 00:54:23.650 --> 00:54:33.159 person you heard at the top of this episode. And Rahul. 1009 00:54:44.289 --> 00:54:47.500 Rahul runs Sustainable Mississauga and is a council candidate for 1010 00:54:47.559 --> 00:54:51.539 Ward 8. Mississauga's municipal election is October 26th. And the 1011 00:54:51.579 --> 00:54:55.760 fight about data centers has unavoidably become impacted by this election. 1012 00:54:56.280 --> 00:55:00.289 Ashley is the central organizer for No AI Mississauga, and 1013 00:55:00.329 --> 00:55:03.630 a point person for other activists. According to The Pointer, 1014 00:55:04.230 --> 00:55:07.449 a publication that covers Brampton, Mississauga, and Niagara, there was 1015 00:55:07.489 --> 00:55:10.230 a town hall on June 25th about this data center, 1016 00:55:10.869 --> 00:55:14.869 where 300 people packed into the room. Martin Reed, the 1017 00:55:14.949 --> 00:55:18.679 counselor for Ward 9... the location for the proposed data center, 1018 00:55:18.940 --> 00:55:20.980 has said in the press that this was when he 1019 00:55:21.039 --> 00:55:24.260 changed his mind about the data center, which he supported 1020 00:55:24.380 --> 00:55:29.900 in principle before. Reid, along with another few counselors, has 1021 00:55:29.960 --> 00:55:35.179 since aligned himself with the anti-data center activists. On July 29th, 1022 00:55:35.340 --> 00:55:37.860 there was a council vote on pausing data center projects 1023 00:55:37.900 --> 00:55:41.670 for a month to give staff time to prepare an ICBL, 1024 00:55:42.329 --> 00:55:45.730 the bylaw being voted on. In that council meeting, Ashley 1025 00:55:45.789 --> 00:55:47.670 gave a scathing deposition. 1026 00:55:47.969 --> 00:55:50.550 The council's assessment of project documents revealed their ignorance to 1027 00:55:50.570 --> 00:55:51.880 many of the points that were mentioned today. 1028 00:55:52.539 --> 00:55:54.139 The functional servicing reports, low. 1029 00:55:54.019 --> 00:55:56.500 Number of employees as it relates to the city's goal 1030 00:55:56.659 --> 00:55:59.539 of 45 jobs per hectare, the noise impact studies, missing 1031 00:55:59.579 --> 00:56:03.019 information and misclassifications, and the floor plans capacity for scalable 1032 00:56:03.039 --> 00:56:07.949 energy demand. Council seemingly neglected to investigate extended generator use 1033 00:56:08.769 --> 00:56:13.239 during extreme weather and grid disruptions. emissions concentrations, lithium-ion battery 1034 00:56:13.280 --> 00:56:17.389 fire management, and microclimate impacts. Further, in requests for water 1035 00:56:17.469 --> 00:56:22.010 and cooling reports, nothing explicitly questioned the chemicals, discharge, bacteria, 1036 00:56:22.050 --> 00:56:26.050 maintenance-related water consumption, and leaks, such as the closed-loop data 1037 00:56:26.070 --> 00:56:26.989 center leak at. 1038 00:56:26.909 --> 00:56:28.150 The data center in Cambridge. 1039 00:56:28.190 --> 00:56:31.320 That was an excerpt from a new episode of Press 1040 00:56:31.340 --> 00:56:36.199 Progress Sources. Find out more at pressprogress.ca and at harbingermedianetwork.com. 1041 00:56:36.260 --> 00:56:39.320 You've been listening to Harbinger Showcase on your local campus 1042 00:56:39.380 --> 00:56:53.590 and community radio stations This episode has been brought to 1043 00:56:53.650 --> 00:56:58.610 you by Truth Before Reconciliation, Confronting Residential School Denialism, from 1044 00:56:58.670 --> 00:57:02.630 editors Sean Carlton and Nagant Sinclair, from University of Manitoba Press. 1045 00:57:03.230 --> 00:57:05.429 Find it at your local library or independent bookstore and 1046 00:57:05.449 --> 00:57:08.739 at uofmpress.ca. We'll be back with a new episode next week. 1047 00:57:09.400 --> 00:57:12.400 Until then, I'm Harbinger Director Andre Goulet in Montreal. Now, 1048 00:57:12.539 --> 00:57:15.659 back to your regularly scheduled community radio station programming. 1049 00:57:16.300 --> 00:57:18.460 I've been saying for a while, like Ted Morton, who 1050 00:57:18.500 --> 00:57:23.659 of course, you know, former finance minister and Barry Cooper, who, 1051 00:57:23.960 --> 00:57:26.880 I mean, is an outright separatist now. I mean, they're 1052 00:57:26.900 --> 00:57:27.599 talking about how. 1053 00:57:27.539 --> 00:57:30.860 The federal government are imposing these woke judges on. 1054 00:57:30.800 --> 00:57:36.659 Alberta that don't understand our purportedly unique political culture. And 1055 00:57:36.679 --> 00:57:41.170 that's why we need to take back control and appoint 1056 00:57:41.449 --> 00:57:43.070 our own judges who. 1057 00:57:42.989 --> 00:57:49.110 Will be anti-woke. Like, show me the woke judges. Like, where?