رونوشت کامل Jackie Herskovitz Russell: The Storyteller

to cover up. You know what I'm saying? todd faber: Well, I mean yes, but I'm sure that, you know, even even the most genuinely good intention companies can have their problems. And the fact is is that you seem to have surrounded yourself with really good organizations. And that's that's a a a trick unto itself. Jackie Russell: I'm very lucky. And they do lead to each other, but I am very selective as well. I mean, if the company or organization is not doing the right thing, we won't represent them. todd faber: Yeah, well, it's fascinating to me because so often I will find companies I work with or who are working with other organizations and they have to make that hard decision to forego money, right, for their business Jackie Russell: Yeah. todd faber: because it doesn't fit within their organizational sort of mindset, right? And A lot of times they just they'll just be like, hey, we we need to do this, right? We need to, we we can't lose this client just because they did XYZ. And in the PR world, sometimes that's actually the whole purpose of doing it is to fix the problem and fix the reputations. And the fact that you've done this for so long and maintained that mindset is is absolutely remarkable. For whatever it's worth. Jackie Russell: Yeah, I don't I don't see it as remarkable because I have d no desire to work with anybody. I just I'm not doing this work to help other people get more wealthy. It's just not why we do this work at all. So given that that's the why we do it, we do it to help nonprofit organizations or socially responsible companies share their stories so that they can grow, get more customers, get more volunteers, more donors, get more recognition. it's so loud out there. We all get so much information from so many competing sources that todd faber: Yes. Jackie Russell: these nonprofits are competing with other nonprofits to get the the donor funds or the volunteers. And so we help them share their stories so that they're out there, they're getting recognition, credibility, and that builds revenue. So that's why we do it. todd faber: Well, I I like I said, I I think it's remarkable. I know you you don't think so, but in a world of so much noise and speed, as I always start each podcast off, to be able to weed through that and and find these companies and give them a voice is unbelievable. but thinking back to to the to the company to your company, right? I mean you're a certified B Corp, so you legally balance purpose and profit. Mr. Rogers always talked about How our daily labor should be a form of service to our neighbors. So when you made the decision to actually formalize that commitment back in 2013 to become a B Corp, how did it or did it change the internal culture of the firm and the type of stories you then really felt empowered to tell? Jackie Russell: Okay, so we were already doing it. That's why when I learned about B Corps, and you know, it was one of my actually my VP brought it to me. She's like, Did you see this? And I was like, Wow, I was so impressed by the fact that this was going on. And I started looking into it and I was like, We already do this. We're already doing this work. Like we should try to get certified. So we did, but what did it how did it change us? Is then I guess I felt empowered and I could go for not only non profits but socially responsible companies. So we opened it up to welcome like solar energy, glean green energy. We work with clients that have education platforms for underserved schools, for example. todd faber: Mm. Jackie Russell: So they're for-profit companies, but are still helping through it. And you know, and then in 2016, TEAK was part of the foundation of the Boston chapter of conscious capitalism. And I really believe deeply that business the the B Corp thing business is a force for good that's the only way that our world is going to change for the better because business if it's not a force for good it's causing all the problems it's causing a bad environment it's causing inequity between humans in a deep deep level so really it's it's a Herculean feat to try to change that in business. There is a story in the New York Times Yesterday about how business school is at the bottom line of the problem of of our society because of what they're teaching. And years ago, I was on this panel at BU about B Corps and it was at the it was at the business school. And a kid student got up and raised his hand and directed this question to me, which I don't know why, but he did, so I had to answer it. But he was like, Does it scare you that we're not being taught any of this at business school? And I didn't know that and I was like, my god, that petrif that petrifies me. And and this basically was what the article was about yesterday, and I'll bed in the in the opinion section, that if they're only taught to make business as a force for war profit, it's never gonna change. Like we todd faber: Yeah. Jackie Russell: all have to do this together. So Teak does what it can, I'm only one little company and we at least I know I've s spending my life trying to use business as a force for good. I don't even know if I answered your question in any way, shape, or form right then. todd faber: No, no, you you did and and you actually brought up a good point in terms of where it starts, right? it's fascinating because I actually have a couple of folks who are on the business side that I'm interviewing for the podcast. I haven't interviewed them yet, so I'm not gonna tell you who it is. Jackie Russell: Yeah. todd faber: but I also have a professor from a a business school in the Midwest, so another big business school, and that's part of what we're gonna talk about. So I love that you brought that up. Because the idea is that again, the genesis of or one of the genesis of this podcast is this idea that success and kindness are not mutually exclusive. Which means that businesses can do both. And you're a wonderful example of that, right? Of of

a business that is doing both. You're successful, but you're also creating a better world. because of it, because you're amplifying the stories of these amazing organizations in B Corps. And I've talked to folks who are straight up for profit, but they're still doing the same thing too, by raising the bar for their employees to helping them be better. Or, you Jackie Russell: Mm. Mm-hmm. todd faber: know, I interviewed Jane Steinmitz, who is the managing partner or she was the managing partner of just Boston for EY, first female managing partner in Big Four history in Boston. But now she does the Atlantic. She and I talked a lot about their neurodiversity hiring practices. Jackie Russell: Hm. todd faber: Right? That they were saying, we are not going to look for social cues for somebody that might be on the spectrum to not hire them. We're going to look for those social cues to hire them because they're going to add value to the decision-making process. And so when you can see that, that it's like there's businesses like yours that are amplifying the stories of these wonderful organizations and B Corps. And then there's the stories of of an EY who's saying we want to diversify our workforce because that adds value to the problem solving. And so, and and again, you think about and you and I talked a little bit about this in the in the pre-call, the real genesis of this podcast was my 95% rule. And that stems from a conversation I had with my daughters when they were much younger and shockingly it resonated with them which I can't believe because they never listened to me. but the idea is that the vast majority of the world is navigating realities and battles we can't fathom. And our job as leaders is to find ways to make their lives better. And so in thinking about your clients, their often on the front lines of those unfathomable realities, whether it's dealing with poverty, illness, systemic equity gaps, a litany of things. When you're working with them, how do those how do you help those organizations tell their stories, I guess in a way that respects their dignity of their clients and the organizations themselves. Rather than just exploiting their hardships for a good headline. Jackie Russell: Yeah. We use a formula that I read about a hundred years ago in a book where the guy did a study of the TED talks that go viral. And he said the the formula for these TED talks is problem action solution. So if you can present the problem and then talk about what the organization does to solve that problem, what are the actions they take and then the solutions that they achieve? If we we use that formula now, not just now but forever, ever since I've read that, to help organizations share their stories. So you're not just focusing on the problem, which are flies in the eyes. You know, you've seen the UNICEF commercial. todd faber: Right. Yes. I was one of those people that donated in high school, so I know. Jackie Russell: And you know, it it pulls at your heartstrings or God the dog. Like Yeah. like or I I think there's a Sarah McLaughlin commercial that is about abused animals. It is horrifying. And so in todd faber: Yes. Yes. Yeah. Jackie Russell: the end, yeah, it pr it pulls at your heartstrings, but then what? You know, so todd faber: Where's the meaningful change? Yeah. Jackie Russell: Right. So we talk about here's the problem from whatever it is food insecurity, gender, pay gap, wage you know, wage gap, climate change, you name it. they all all the problems in our world today. We talk about that. And we lead in through a person always, but not necessarily with their name or, you know, we share s personal stories 'cause that's how people get engaged and they care about it. But then we go right into here are the actions the organization is. Taking to mitigate those problems. And here are the metrics, the results that they're achieving. So it's a sus it's a satisfying story arc. and it doesn't just linger in the problem that makes people feel exploited. Or, todd faber: Yeah. Jackie Russell: you know what I mean? todd faber: Yeah, no, I do, and because because again, forty plus years ago, I was home for lunch, my junior year in high school, and I saw one of those things and I went, my god, this is heartbreaking and I started sending money, right? And maybe it made a difference, maybe it didn't, I don't know, but it's not as meaningful as actually showing the action steps to make a difference. Jackie Russell: Yeah. todd faber: and and that's a big part of storytelling is that there has to be authenticity behind it. And that's clearly something that you guys have really accomplished to make it meaningful. And and that's any relationship, right? Like and and I talk a lot about leadership obviously in this podcast. And authenticity breeds trust. And when you trust leaders or the people you're working with or for, you're more apt to become wed to the idea of whatever it is the company is doing. Whether, again, it's telling stories of a nonprofit, or whether it's the nonprofit itself, or whether it's a company creating an innovative product to solve an issue with AI, right? Where, you know, it doesn't really matter other than the idea that. If you're authentic as a leader, you're authentic in the story that you're telling, people are going to trust you because it's real. and and we have a big problem with that nowadays. we think about the news cycle, which you see far more than I do, but now we kind of all have access to it. But it's loud, it's cynical, it's polarizing, and at a time where you have spent 30 years. promoting these stories of kindness and corporate responsibility and human victory to other journalists who want the conflict, they want the headline. How do you break through that wall of media cynicism to really deliver stories that can heal a community spirit instead of fracturing it? Jackie Russell: They also want to do good. There are reporters who want to do good and who are so

tired of telling negative stories that they're if you find the right ones, they welcome the opportunity to show a good part of our community and people who are making a difference in a great way. They really do. And so it's really just about matching the story to the right reporter, doing the research, making sure that the reporter is the right fit, or influencers if we're working with influencers. and then of course when we create social. media content, we just do it. But it's it's f finding those fits that there are people out there who want to do the right thing. todd faber: But I it's I Jackie Russell: You don't believe it. todd faber: you know because because I don't see it enough, you know, Jackie Russell: Yeah. todd faber: you you see you know something happen over the weekend where, you know, a pretty high positioned attorney, attorney, reporter or correspondent at a big news network reposted something that was highly offensive and racist. And did it because she knew she needed the clicks. She needed it, she needed the sensationalism. And so more people. So it's great that you guys are taking the stance of we're gonna find the right match. And and and so the reason I'm telling this other piece of it is to show they don't have to do that, right? Because Jackie Russell: Mm mm. todd faber: you guys are proving that they are out there, that there are reporters out there. We just need to see more of it. It's listen, it's no different than this podcast. There's way more of you than there are the leaders at companies and in politics who believe that kindness and success are in fact mutually exclusive. There's less of them, but they're getting all the clicks. They're getting all the headlines. And the idea here is to be able to promote your stories, like yours, it's especially even just that finite one where you're saying, well, you know. We look for the reporters that want to promote Jackie Russell: Mm. todd faber: the good thing. And so I think that's wonderful that you're doing it. It's just that unfortunately we keep seeing those that maybe they want to, but they're not doing it because it's not in their Jackie Russell: Clickbait. todd faber: it it's not in their financially best interest. Jackie Russell: That's right. That's true as well. because You they do get praise and paid and they get better assignments when they have more clicks on their stories. And what drives clicks is negative headlines. But you talked about the neur neurodiversity at EY. And so one of our clients, curriculum associates, they have platforms for underserved schools, and there's a a man who works in their company who is neurodiverse, and he's gonna be on five for good at in channel five. they talk about good stories, good positive stories, because he mapped out actually I think he's blind also, and he mapped out, he created an app for visually impaired people so that they they could walk through the office and not be have to see where they're going. And like, so that's like a great story that an employee right? todd faber: That's an amazing story. Jackie Russell: An employee developed this for their company. It shows that the company cares about these things and put the resources behind it, and you know, Channel Five wants to do it. So it's great. todd faber: Good. Good. I I that makes me very happy. Jackie Russell: Yeah. todd faber: because we need to be able to show that and there's value there. That that that's you know, I chaired the innovation awards for twelve years. That's right there. That's innovation, right? That's Jackie Russell: Yeah. todd faber: somebody saying, you know, your point about earlier about the TED Talks, the process, right? It's identifying the problem, showing how they go about solving it, and then actually showing the solution, right? Like it's just that simple step. And the fact that somebody was able to be relationally close to it because if they're if they themselves are are impaired in terms of their sight, that's the perfect example. But I love that that's so is that something that you guys had worked on with them? Yeah. No, I mean getting it in front of channel five. Yeah. Yeah. Jackie Russell: Yeah, we didn't work on the app, but once they told us this was Yeah, yeah, exactly. Once they told us that's going on in their company, my people were like, We gotta tell that story. It's fantastic. So it they're out there, todd faber: Yeah, it's a great story. It's a win win for everybody too. Right. Jackie Russell: honestly. There are the reporters who wanna do it. They wanna show good news, they get tired of it too. Who doesn't? todd faber: I don't know. There definitely are people who like it. They they thrive in it. You know? It's just it's it's a shame that we've sort of gotten to this point, but people thrive in conflict. Jackie Russell: Yeah. todd faber: which is funny when you think about the idea that human beings are genuinely risk averse, and conflict is all about risk. Because it's it's the idea of going into a situation knowing that there's gonna be severe discord. And I I I I don't get it. I'm a big believer in looking at, how can we go about being empathetic to somebody's problems? Back to the 95% rule. The idea of instead of judging people for mistakes or behavior, understand why. why is that? And, I I I often think about, what does true empathy mean? Well, it it still requires some boundaries. But it requires trying to keep our neighborhood safe and, as I was talking about earlier, authentic. and so thinking about your neighborhood with your work at Teak, you've talked about the fact that you've you're willing to turn away business that doesn't align with your values. Was there a particular instance where you found yourself approached by a company or even working with a company where You had to turn them down or turn them away because it was gonna impact your soul Jackie Russell: Yeah. todd faber: and the mission of the of of what you were building at Teague.

Jackie Russell: Yeah, but that was i very easy to do. It was I'll t I'll say it. Should I say it? Or no? Monsanto. todd faber: You can say whatever you want. This is your podcast. I'm just here hit record. Jackie Russell: Monsanto. Which if you know anything about Monsanto, they're the GMO guys, right? Who and the the seed they make these seeds that are ruining crops for farmers. It just you know, big pharma bad producers and they wanted a campaign that would make it that would improve the reputation. Also, Cargill was a company that wanted to improve the way that people felt about cattle raising because that's what they do. And I'm like, you people have come to the wrong shop. Like it was so easy to say no because basically, you know, they are the exact reason there is a B Corp, their exact reason that, you know, there's conscious capitalism because these organizations are really hurting the planet and there's no way it would do that. There isn't enough money in the world honestly that I would help. Like help mass farming. Are you kidding me? I don't eat meat. Like no todd faber: Well, sa sadly, maybe I'll have to edit this part out because I'm supposed to be interviewing the CEO of Cargill in a couple of weeks. Jackie Russell: No. todd faber: I'm kidding. Jackie Russell: Well, I'd like to know how that campaign went because the what was interesting about it was that I was like, Wow, what a challenge that would be though. You know, just from a professional perspective, I'd be interested in that challenge to see how far we could take it, but I wouldn't do it. todd faber: Well, it's funny, you you think about a these fixers, right? That they go in and their job is to fix a problem that doesn't deserve to be fixed. Right? And that's what we're talking about here is that the idea Jackie Russell: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. todd faber: of saying, Hey, you know, if somebody else wants to do this, that's fine. But again, the soul and the mission of our organization is not to do that. I wouldn't necessarily fault somebody if that's what they chose to do, but To your point, that's not what you want, right? That's not how you wanna run your business. You wanna run your business where you are focused on making things better, not hiding things. Not not it's it's let's Jackie Russell: Right. Spinning it to t appear different than it is. My that's todd faber: I I Jackie Russell: a actually I never thought about that, Todd. It's our job is to show the beauty and the value in all these organizations. We don't make it up for them. You know, they're doing it inherently. Our job is just to put a megaphone to it and get it out there. todd faber: But that is an important job. I as I mentioned, when I chaired the New England Innovation Awards, the first thing I did when I took over back in I think 2008 was I carved out an award for nonprofits because I felt that nonprofits should not be judged against for profits because the process is different, the innovation is always going to be different, and more importantly, I always felt like the nonprofits needed it more. They needed the recognition, they needed to be put out there. And, that was a volunteer thing that I did for for, twelve years or so. But this is what you're living every day, right? You're living every day in the idea that we are going to give them the microphone. We're going to give them the opportunity to show that look at the impact they're having. And nonprofits, more so than even the B Corps, struggle every day. Just to keep the lights on sometimes. And in this day Jackie Russell: Yeah, yeah. todd faber: and age, as funding gets cut, they're Jackie Russell: Yeah. todd faber: more and more reliant on positive publicity and positive press. And Jackie Russell: Yes, it's more important. todd faber: and and that's a that's an important thing. And so when I said to you at the beginning that it's remarkable, it is, it's remarkable that you guys have taken this route, that you've built a business specifically designed to. ensure that the voices that don't get heard get heard. And and there's there's tremendous value in that. because without it They don't get funding. They don't get th they don't get publicity that they so badly need. so I you know, again, it it it is important work. So thank you for that. Jackie Russell: Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for recognizing it, us. I appreciate it. todd faber: No, no. Listen, I I will tell you that we all need that, right? We all need people behind us. And and you know, thinking about your career, right? And one of the things that Fred Rogers used to talk a lot about on the show was that he believed that people who shape us into caretakers for our community. Are the ones that loved us into being early on. So thinking way, way back, and I'm aging both of us, but that's okay. you know, long before you were an award-winning CEO and a champion for, again, all these amazing companies in terms of how you communicate who they are, was there any kind of foundational person in your early life who taught you the importance of listening deeply to other people's stories so that you could tell them accurately? Jackie Russell: I would say not a person, but I was a newspaper reporter. Actually, I was the editor of the Skidmore News in college and then went on to become a a reporter, newspaper reporter, and I covered education and I covered religion for a couple of newspapers, you know, over the course of seven years before I left to become a copy editor and then I started the PR company. But when you are a reporter, you're you have to listen closely so that you can and this is before there was transcription machines, right? There was no AI. I wasn't turning otter on on my phone, which I also didn't have back then when I was a reporter. so I had to like listen and write write notes so that I could go back to the newsroom and type out the story. And I you know, you have to that's how you learn to be good at your job is by

listening to people. And then asking good questions. Which I think I'm just inherently it's in my nature to ask a lot of questions. So it was just just the right fit, you know? Sometimes you just you fall into something 'cause it's who you are anyway. Does that sound right? todd faber: Yeah, no, the the Yeah, and that makes a lot of sense. And and you can't ask I really believe this, you cannot ask really good, insightful questions unless you listen first. Jackie Russell: Definitely. todd faber: who is it? I think it was I think it was Jack, I think it was Jack Hammond. So Jack was one of the first people I interviewed for for the podcast. He's the he's a former brigadier general. He's the CEO of the home base program. And Jack said As a kid, my mom used to say to me, You have one mouth Jackie Russell: Mm-hmm. todd faber: and two ears. What should be you be using first? Right? And that's and there's so much truth to that. If you listen to people, truly, you can ask the right questions because you're you're understanding where they're coming from. Jackie Russell: Mm-hmm. todd faber: and what I think is probably that's the you know big key to the success of what you guys are doing is you're doing a great job of listening to the stories, asking the questions, and then putting information out there that's valuable to the rest of us, not only just as information, but as hope. Right? In this day and age, we're missing that. yeah. Jackie Russell: An inspiration, I would say, not just hope, but I hope that the stories that we put out are also inspiring and that's another goal really at Teak is I want people to read good news. I want them to read about people who are going above and beyond and making the world better, who are inspired themselves to do like really cutting edge or great things for the benefit of others, so that they will say, I want to do that too. that's so inspiring. I want to be like that. That's really another one of our big goal of what we do. todd faber: And and honestly, that's a wonderful goal to have, right? To to Jackie Russell: Thank you. todd faber: know that to to get up every day and know that your intention is to not simply make the lives of the people that you work with and on behalf of better, but by telling their stories, you can positively impact the people around you. I mean, you know, that's my hope with this podcast is that if one person sees this, sees what you're doing and goes, there's a better way to do this. There's a much better way to do this and I can be successful doing it. And for me, one person, that's all I care about for each wo each one of these podcasts is somebody gets something positive out of this where they can make a little change or ha or be inspired to make that change, is awesome. And and I'm can tell you that I'm certainly inspired by what you guys have done. and I love the fact that you're in my neighborhood. Jackie Russell: Stop. todd faber: Because you're you you are definitely making it a much happier, better place with the work that you're doing. And I can tell you that that Mr. Rogers would be very proud of your storytelling. Jackie Russell: Thank you. todd faber: because it's it's meaningful. So I appreciate you coming on today. Jackie Russell: Thank you for having me. todd faber: I am hopeful that th those of you who are watching are inspired. by what Jackie has built. And if you get one thing out of it, it's the idea that being authentic will create trust and telling your story and other people's stories can inspire those people around you. So thank you everyone. Have a great rest of your day. Bye bye.