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00:00:00
Speaker 1: This is a prostate cancer awareness month. Today is World Cancer Research Day and I'm joined from SAMRI, the Prostate Cancer Research Groups lead Professor Lisa Butler. Lisa, good morning, welcome, good morning, Thanks for having us, and you've brought in PhD student Jacob Trung who is obviously with you at SAMUR as well. And Jacob, congratulations. You're here because of a really big breakthrough you have made. Tell us about that.
00:00:30
Speaker 2: Yes, sir, so well, first of all, thank you for having me. I'm pleasure to be here. So really the focus of my last five years under under supervision by Lisa has been to see if we're able to you know, predict when if patients are going to relapse of prostate cancer. So you know, depending on the severity of disease, when they're diagnosed a common therapist, they'll have their prostate removed and so but after several years, you know, this cancer can come back and it needs further treatment, but at that time it's quite hard to manage. So what we believed is looking at sort of at that point in time of their initial surgery, that's the key to figuring out which patients are going to relapse. And so what my project was actually was to marry two different disciplines. Really it's sort of bi chemistry and analytical chemistry. And look, take a deep dive into the tumors and see, you know, is there anything in the tumors that we can use to predict if a patient in ten fifteen years.
00:01:37
Speaker 1: Time might relapse? And you found there is.
00:01:40
Speaker 2: We found some signals, a pattern of certain signals that appear to be strongly associated with the group of men that have relapsed. So we'd actually know this information that their cancer has come back. And that's allow us to actually compare the makeup of the tumors and yes, we found some very distinct pat enough signals.
00:02:00
Speaker 1: Okay, And with that in the future, I presume you'll be able to predict which men are likely to fall into this category and start treatment before.
00:02:09
Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely and also prevent treating patients that don't fall into that theory, because prostate cancer therapies are not pleasant for the command. So that's also as such as an indicator we can look and maybe predict what patients. But also it opens up a new range of targets. So if we find that there's a protein, for example, or a network of proteins that are responsible for this, well, then that's therapies, that's potential new therapies.
00:02:37
Speaker 1: Amazing, Lisa, where do we go with this next? I mean developed here in Adelaide, So that's pretty exciting what happens from here?
00:02:44
Speaker 3: Oh, look, it's very exciting, and I think, you know, our next steps are really now to confirm this with other independent groups of patients, both into state and overseas. But I think if it holds up, you know, there's a lot of promise. Firstly as a potential test for patients to make their decisions about treatment right at the time of their diagnosis. Some men might need more intensification of their therapy, but on the other side, we might actually discover some therapies that could be applied more effectively as well. So that's really the excitement of what Jacob's discovered.
00:03:20
Speaker 1: That's amazing. Where are we in the fight against prostate cancer? Because I understand today it's number one cancer detected in Australia. Is that correct?
00:03:27
Speaker 3: It absolutely is, And it's the most commonly diagnosed cancer in South Australia as well, so almost three hundred South Australian men die still of prostate cancer every.
00:03:36
Speaker 1: Year on a day almost just under.
00:03:38
Speaker 3: Yes, So it's you know, these are numbers we still have to battle against. And we've made some huge advances in the last ten to fifteen years. So we've got a lot of therapies now available for men, so they're extending life, which is fantastic, but we still need some more curative options and try and prevent men from getting to these very aggressive later stage cancers.
00:03:57
Speaker 1: Do we know what causes even in arged prostate even if it's not cancer, I mean, what triggers that it's been there forever? I suppose an issue for men it is a dietary, lifestyle, hereditary.
00:04:09
Speaker 3: They think there's lots of factors involved. Certainly hormones are a major player. So testosterone with the androgens in men are a major driver of enlarged prostate but also prostate cancer. And so that's the main treatment is trying to suppress those hormones. And that's why, as Jacob said, men generally feel really terrible when they're on these sort of hormonal therapies.
00:04:30
Speaker 1: Yeah all right, so Jacob, investigate what led you down this path? You were a young man, you probably in your twenty still, right, Yeah.
00:04:38
Speaker 2: Twenty six. I'm feeling old after five years though, twenty six?
00:04:41
Speaker 1: How did you get into this field of research? Is there?
00:04:44
Speaker 2: What's so it's actually quite interesting is that I did my undergrad in biomedical science, so at the University of Adelaide, so i've my training in undergrad is in biology and biochemistry. But once I joined Samary and joined Lisa's group, I actually started to shift into analytical chemistry. I use a technical mass spectrometry. It's very much a fundamental chemistry technique. And so I just kind of now am in this sort of marriage or two disciplines. And I got handed this incredible project by Lisa which has you know, real world applications. So I kind of fell into this, you know, quite luckily, and I've been really blessed ever since.
00:05:23
Speaker 1: Is that, perhaps, Lisa, you might want to chime in here. Is that something that can lead to a breakthrough. It's getting fresh and eyes to look at something and perhaps somebody who you know is curiously going to explore a different path.
00:05:35
Speaker 3: Perhaps
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absolutely, And I think that's why you know, we've been able to make some of these breakthroughs, particularly to place like Samary, where we've got lots of different researchers that all have different expertise, and so you know, Jacob's co supervised by people that have completely different techniques and expertise than I do. And I think that's actually what's made the project go ahead so well. The other reason, I think is because we have a fantastic biobank here in Adelaide where we collect a lot of the prostate tumors from men, and many of the listeners might have actually contributed to the research that Jacob's talking about, because that's enabled us to follow those people, see how they've been going, and then go back and do the deep dive research on those specimens.
00:06:19
Speaker 1: Do they welcome being contact? I suppose they do. That's why they enlist in the first place.
00:06:23
Speaker 3: Almost everybody says yes, And that's something we're forever grateful for.
00:06:27
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, because you can't do it without that can You've got to go back and check and absolutely do all of that level of research. It would you choker working in the one lab to do all of this too. That must be pretty unique in the one space.
00:06:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's definitely. I mean, it's just allows me having all of these groups and resources together, It allows me to get the best out of my work, you know, having the expertise from Lisa's side and then my other supervisors from their side, all in the one lab.
00:06:58
Speaker 1: You know, it's it.
00:07:00
Speaker 2: Is really incredible.
00:07:02
Speaker 1: Absolutely so Lisa with prostate cancer. For people who may never have had the PSA test, for instance at the doctor, I mean, how early should it has detected earlier and earlier. You think of Will McDonald who's very publicly gone out with this battle against prostate cancer and appears to be on the winning side of that, which is fantastic. But I suppose, like everything, early detection is key.
00:07:27
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and so you know, the current recommendations are to be tested approximately every two years after the age of fifty. But I think, you know, Will's story is a good reminder that if you have a strong family history, or if there are any symptoms that you're noticing, is really not to let those things go. Is to make sure you're having those conversations with your doctor.
00:07:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, and obviously PSA is the first step, isn't it, And then preps A specialists from there depending on the results away you go.
00:07:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we have lots more non invasive tests and really state of the art imaging now that really helps give men a lot more information.
00:08:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So in terms of the research, then this, as you say, will be tested around the world into state everywhere else. Of Jacob's discovery, how do we turn that into potentially a cure? Could it be that long term? Is this the one of the steps in that process?
00:08:23
Speaker 3: Look, I think you know, with the time course of prostate cancer, if you can intervene early and stop men from getting to that aggressive stage of cancer, then that's going to be absolutely huge in the sense that you know, it's fortunately we have good outcomes for prostate cancer, but those that do have that aggressive form that Jacob has been studying, you know, that's incredibly difficult to treat. So if we can prevent that from coming or treat it better when it does happen, you know, there's a good chance that more men will die with prostate cancer than on.
00:08:52
Speaker 1: And that's still the case today. Isn't it that men die with it than of it.
00:08:55
Speaker 3: Well it's a common I think notion. So people think that that's the case, and it probably is the case. But at the moment, we know there's still you know, almost three hundred men doing here every year, and so there's still you know, because it is so prevalent, quite a high number of men that are dying and need better treatments.
00:09:15
Speaker 1: And the difference between an enlarged prostate and cancer is what just one that isn't a tumor.
00:09:21
Speaker 3: Yep, that's right. So benign enlargement is really just an overgrowth of the prostate that's not malignant. It's something that often does happen with age, and I think it worries people a lot when they have those sort of symptoms, but in most cases that is a benign change. And so again, you know, just having those regular conversations with your doctor can.
00:09:40
Speaker 1: Really allay a lot of canny. Yeah, and making sure does it have to be enlarged to become cancer as well?
00:09:45
Speaker 3: No, no, And I think that's the other thing that people don't always realize, and it can be quite distinct from the PSA. So that's why we have more tests now to really nut out exactly what's going on.
00:09:55
Speaker 1: That's an interesting word of that's true. There we go. All right. It has been lovely meeting you today, and how wonderful that this work has just done that around the corner from where we are. It's incredible it's amazing, and so much other work done at Samuy too, but prostate cancer is certainly one you get the I don't know if it's right to say this, but the fill from the research from breakthroughs like this that the cure is not that far away. Is that a fair comment?
00:10:24
Speaker 3: I think it is, you know, for most cancers. Actually, we've made huge advances in the last ten to fifteen years in a range of cancers that were thought to really have have major issues in terms of treatment. So melanoma is a great example where you know, the outlook for that is just so much better than it was before. Similarly, with prostate cancer, fifteen years ago, we had very little to offer men who were progressing. Nowadays there's multiple therapies that they can try, and that gives them a lot of options, you know, to extend their life and hopefully, you know, with time, have treatments that give better quality of life as well, because that's important too.
00:11:00
Speaker 1: All right, Jacob, we're too for you from here. You get the PhD eventually, I suppose. When you're doing I mean, what's happening is.
00:11:08
Speaker 2: My first goal, that's my that's just the light at the end of the tunne of the moment. But after this I have a post dog. So it's a post doctural opportunity in Belgium actually, really with our collaborators at the University of k Eleven, I'm going up there to set up some new methods and some do some work there on prostate still, yeah, in prostate, but also in other tissue types and cancer models as well.
00:11:32
Speaker 1: So does your research your study allow you to look at the body across the border? Are you sort of specializing in process?
00:11:39
Speaker 2: You know, when it comes to the technique that I use, once you can sort of look across that. It's pretty adaptable to other issues. I enjoy looking at sort of cancer related like that type of tissue model though, that's what's most interesting to me. But yeah, the technique can be adapted very easily.
00:11:57
Speaker 1: It's interesting, isn't it. You say that's what is most to you. It's hard for a lay person to get their head around that, really, like if.
00:12:04
Speaker 2: It is and I think it's something that you kind of have to stand back and go, well, you know, this is an especialis yeah, But I think it's just because it also has such a real world application and it's a real issue that that's what interests me the most.
00:12:16
Speaker 1: Amazing. Well good on you and well done here because this is just extraordinary and finding a way to predict which prostate cancer patients are more likely to experience metastic midt to stats you say it metastatic. Thank you. There we go, and that's never been done before, so that is wonderful news. And Lisa, you must be so proud.
00:12:36
Speaker 3: Oh absolutely, And you know, I think training fantastic young students like Jacob is another really important part of our.
00:12:43
Speaker 1: Work and keep researchers coming through. Lovely meeting you both, Joseph Drung and Professor Lisa Butler, lead of Prostate Cancer Research Group at Samury just down the road at North Terrace. Wonderful seeing you both in the studio today is part of the World Cancer Research Date to Prostate cancer