رونوشت کامل EP 85: AI-Written RFP Fail: Why Pitches Collapse

perspective. 00:04:56.000 --> 00:04:58.639 And then sometimes you win it. 00:04:58.639 --> 00:05:01.040 I mean, hit rates, I don't know, 50%. 00:05:01.040 --> 00:05:04.160 What's the hit what's the kind of average success rate, about 50%? 00:05:04.720 --> 00:05:20.079 Yeah, I would say it's always hard to give um accurate success rates because a lot of agencies either uh inadvertently lie um or or they or they qualify it in a slightly different way. 00:05:20.079 --> 00:05:23.839 So um I would always see it very you know black and white. 00:05:23.839 --> 00:05:33.279 If you attend a pitch, you're in the room, you measure your success rate based on that, and any proposals that you send to clients, right? 00:05:33.279 --> 00:05:42.800 Uh because yeah, yeah, you want to you want to know um your scoring for for coming back and and and what you're putting out there. 00:05:42.800 --> 00:05:46.399 Um so there are two ways that you can improve your pitch rate. 00:05:46.399 --> 00:05:52.480 One is to go for less things and have a better qualifying um you know uh process. 00:05:52.480 --> 00:06:04.079 The other is to really hone in on what you're doing, and I think in the in the and yeah, everything from presentation skills to how you're laying the document out to how you're answering it. 00:06:04.079 --> 00:06:08.399 Um you mentioned it can take a few weeks. 00:06:08.399 --> 00:06:15.519 I think a lot of you know the the reporting in the industry and commentary is is that it takes longer than a few weeks now. 00:06:15.519 --> 00:06:18.480 You know, it's uh it's very hard to win pitches. 00:06:18.480 --> 00:06:26.160 Um, there are more agencies than ever in the market, it's very saturated, clients have got a lot more opportunity to shop around. 00:06:26.160 --> 00:06:34.639 Um, so your new business is is super exciting, super hard, um, and is the lifeblood of any agency. 00:06:34.639 --> 00:06:37.600 So you you've really, really got to go all out on it. 00:06:39.519 --> 00:06:50.000 So from if we kind of flip it on its head for a moment, there's a lot of brands listening to this um who will be probably planning a pitch in the next 12 months. 00:06:50.399 --> 00:06:53.839 From we have none of our clients, yeah, yeah. 00:06:55.839 --> 00:07:00.720 So from a brand perspective, then obviously it's also really time consuming, isn't it? 00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:05.920 You know, writing a brief, probably having a chemistry meeting with five, six agencies. 00:07:05.920 --> 00:07:09.040 I mean, from that perspective, it can get hours and hours and hours as well. 00:07:09.040 --> 00:07:12.720 So how can brands run better pitches? 00:07:12.720 --> 00:07:22.240 I suppose is my question, because you know, ultimately, you know, the they want to be confident the agency they're selecting is the best agency in an agency they can work with. 00:07:22.240 --> 00:07:28.720 So you must come across loads of loads of kind of tender documents and things like that in in your day-to-day role. 00:07:28.720 --> 00:07:35.439 So, what what are the mistakes you see companies making when they're putting together a pitch document um in the first instance? 00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:43.839 I do a quick one and a very quick observation to talk about is the use of AI to write RFP documents and pitch documents. 00:07:43.839 --> 00:07:46.720 Um, that's becoming way more common. 00:07:46.720 --> 00:07:54.399 And you can if you're going for a pitch document, in order to respond properly, you need to immerse yourself in it. 00:07:54.399 --> 00:07:59.680 You know, you need to read between the lines of what the client's, you know, saying or not saying. 00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:05.920 Um, so it's really obvious when you're going through that process to see OFPs that are now written by AI. 00:08:05.920 --> 00:08:08.560 Um, so that would be the first advice. 00:08:08.560 --> 00:08:13.759 Don't use AI to edit, amend, or write a pitch document. 00:08:13.759 --> 00:08:23.199 It needs to really come from the senior decision makers and the business, and you need to really clearly articulate exactly what you want and what you don't want. 00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:25.920 Um, that would be my first observation. 00:09:34.800 --> 00:09:55.200 And everyone, everyone within that company needs to be in alignment on on a on a RFP or a tender when they're when they're writing it today, you know, because again, we've come up we we've pitched for work before, and it's been clear that the you know the the head of marketing has written it and the chief exec's not not not even seen it, you know, and that's there's a massive misalignment there, isn't there? 00:09:55.440 --> 00:10:05.200 Yeah, I would say all the senior decision makers need to be involved in it, the budget needs to be approved, and you know, like in anything in life, you get out what what you put in. 00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:10.720 Um, you know, if you put a you know a half-baked brief out there, you're probably going to get a half-baked response. 00:10:10.720 --> 00:10:22.240 Um so I think yeah, everyone needs to be aligned and and just spend the time thinking it through really clearly on what you want and being as as transparent as possible. 00:10:22.240 --> 00:10:26.960 Um and then from a client point of view, there's so many different stages of the process. 00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:31.200 Um, some clients don't know where to look and to find agencies. 00:10:31.200 --> 00:10:34.080 Um, you know, there are there are so many agencies out there. 00:10:34.080 --> 00:10:35.360 Do you go to Google? 00:10:35.360 --> 00:10:37.280 Do you go to Chat GPT? 00:10:37.280 --> 00:10:42.160 Do you go to the PRCA website to look for latest award winners? 00:10:42.160 --> 00:10:44.720 Do you then go to people's websites? 00:10:44.720 --> 00:10:47.360 If so, what do you look for on their websites? 00:10:47.360 --> 00:10:48.560 How do you critique it? 00:10:48.560 --> 00:10:49.680 Do you go to LinkedIn? 00:10:49.680 -->

00:10:50.800 Do you see what they've posted? 00:10:50.800 --> 00:10:53.920 Do you go to their Instagram page to see what the culture's like? 00:10:53.920 --> 00:10:58.320 There's so much out there to try and find a good agency. 00:10:58.320 --> 00:11:04.000 So um if you don't know, you know, referrals are obviously a great way to do. 00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:11.280 Um there's there's people in the industry who uh who specialise in running, you know, pitch processes. 00:11:11.280 --> 00:11:19.759 Um it's important that if you're using intermediaries or individuals like that, uh, they're running fair and transparent pitch processes. 00:11:19.759 --> 00:11:38.320 There's been again a lot written in a PR week campaign magazine about intermediaries effectively double dipping, so they will they will charge clients on a pitch process, but they may also then charge a referral fee to the agency to make in introductions. 00:11:38.879 --> 00:11:40.000 That's terrible. 00:11:40.240 --> 00:12:05.040 It's it's been something that's gone on for for many years, decades probably, um, but really coming you know to a head at the moment just because new business is so emotional, and yeah, people are are yeah, agencies are going under as a result of not winning new business, so it's um it's a very emotive topic that has has you know come to a height. 00:12:05.040 --> 00:12:15.840 Uh you know, so selecting the right agency to shortlist um and you know using people to find the right um agencies for referrals is important. 00:12:16.160 --> 00:12:18.400 How many on your short how many on a shortlist then? 00:12:18.400 --> 00:12:20.320 I mean, Chris, I mean That's exactly what I was gonna say. 00:12:20.320 --> 00:12:33.440 Yeah, I know I thought I thought you were gonna ask that because we've we've some years ago we we pitched for a very well known tour, or rather, we were involved in a tender for a very well-known domestic tourism brand. 00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:43.920 And um we pulled out when I think there's 12 agencies invited to pitch, and we we pulled out straight away because I mean it is absolutely ludicrous, you know, and that's too that's clearly too many. 00:12:43.920 --> 00:12:49.360 And frankly, who's got time as an as a as a company to to meet that many agencies? 00:12:49.360 --> 00:12:58.400 So how many is you know, how many is right in in the first, you know, because I I guess companies want to speak speak initially speak to a few agencies, don't they? 00:12:58.400 --> 00:13:02.640 But then they kind of inevitably shortlist down to a few more, you know, what how how many should they speak to? 00:13:02.640 --> 00:13:03.440 What's about right? 00:13:03.680 --> 00:13:05.200 Yeah, really good question. 00:13:05.200 --> 00:13:16.960 Um I'll give a couple of examples of uh very competitive uh pitches um that I know of and also really good processes um that have been run. 00:13:16.960 --> 00:13:21.600 And I'll give a plug to a good friend of mine uh called Alex Young. 00:13:21.600 --> 00:13:29.040 Um she used to run the PR and comms part of AAR for for over a decade, I think. 00:13:29.040 --> 00:13:33.600 So you know, advise brands on running these pitch processes. 00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:47.759 She ran something um for British Gas uh that I was involved with when I was the the managing director of One Green Bean, uh it's probably a couple of years ago now, and the process was was excellent, right? 00:13:47.759 --> 00:14:10.960 You had um uh an initial chemistry session um with the client, it was around Christmas time, and it was structured uh in a way that you had to do uh about 12 questions, it was the 12 questions of Christmas, I think, and then there was an exercise at the end, um, which was open-ended to show creativity and chemistry. 00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:23.600 And uh we opted to do a pantomime with with the client that our creative director did a brilliant job on scripting something, and we all had to read it out. 00:14:23.600 --> 00:14:34.800 And we brought in prompts and a bit of fancy dress, and remember we had the corporate affairs director playing the role of a cow, um, and he he was moo he was mooing. 00:14:34.800 --> 00:14:38.560 And uh and it was it was brilliant, a lot of fun. 00:14:38.560 --> 00:14:41.840 The client really embraced it, and it was a it was a great session. 00:14:41.840 --> 00:14:57.920 That they then then shortlisted I think from I think it went yeah, ten agencies to get creds down to six agencies to do chemistry, down to three agencies to pitch, and and that was a good process, and everyone knew what was going on throughout the process. 00:14:57.920 --> 00:15:08.320 Um another good example was uh when we pitched to TJXE, which is the the parent company that owns Home Base and TK Max. 00:15:08.960 --> 00:15:09.280 Okay. 00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:21.120 They got four agencies, they invited them all to their headquarters in I think it was Watford, did an immersion day to meet the team, you spent the whole day there, the other agencies were there. 00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:32.160 Um you could go around the store, get to know the brand, and you could find out as much information as possible, which was fantastic, ask questions, it was super open and transparent. 00:15:32.160 --> 00:15:34.879 Um, so they're they're two really good examples. 00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:39.920 Did did was it was it not really awkward being like one of four agencies with all the other agencies? 00:15:39.920 --> 00:15:45.440 And was there a lot of um like bigging up each other, like trying to outdo each other? 00:15:45.440 --> 00:16:14.720 I see that feels a bit we once had a pitch for a big shopping centre, and we got called to it, and it was it was for the short list, I think, and there was about eight agencies in there, including the incumbent that had been put up, and I I remember it was so awkward because the incumbent was asking questions that they sh really should know they were the incumbent, and

everybody knew they were the incumbent, and we were all there to as part of you know the beauty parade of the different age, and everybody was asking questions and trying to outdo each other, and it was just it was just a bit aw. 00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:17.280 I found it I we find that really awkward. 00:16:17.280 --> 00:16:29.600 So often we don't some the best ones you don't even have to pitch to, usually you have to do a proposal, and they know if they like you, they know if they want to work with you, and they've seen you work before, but in situations that you're talking about there with big pitches, that that makes sense. 00:16:29.600 --> 00:16:31.360 Was it awkward or not? 00:16:31.680 --> 00:16:39.440 No, I don't think it is awkward because um if you make it awkward, you're not going to win, right? 00:16:39.440 --> 00:16:50.000 Because clients are smart, and you know, if they see an agency trying to throw another agency under the bus um or laughing and saying, oh god, that's a stupid question. 00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:58.400 Um they're just gonna not want to work with you because they want people who are collaborative, they're gonna work with their media agency, their advertising agency. 00:16:58.400 --> 00:17:05.519 Um, so you just have to you know play it with a a straight bat and be fair and and transparent as the client's been. 00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:09.759 Um but yeah, back to your point about a long list. 00:17:09.759 --> 00:17:15.039 Um there's a pitch recently, uh, which was the open open tender. 00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:22.720 So I think about 28 agencies went for it and submitted proposals, and they were really, really detailed proposals. 00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:24.640 I know this because I know the client. 00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:32.559 Um, and then they had 11 pitches, which you know is a lot, each for each for an hour long. 00:17:32.559 --> 00:17:39.839 Um and you wouldn't even remember what the first pitch because that was thorough process. 00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:44.240 They had to do that because they're uh a government entity. 00:17:44.240 --> 00:17:50.480 Uh but you certainly wouldn't recommend that in uh in the private sector. 00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:59.680 I think you want to have three three people presenting pitches, maybe an absolute maximum of of four. 00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:08.480 Um but yeah, just just work back from that really and work out you know how wide you need to cast your net in order to get the therapy to pitch. 00:18:08.799 --> 00:18:32.880 And the better the I'm completely with you, the better the brief, the better the brief, and always include a bloody price, because we we spoke to the guy from Frank PR who founded Frank, and he was like, and you know, he was he gave a story, he gave a story in a pitch nightmare um uh one of the PR week conferences, saying that this client said to them, Um, just with the budget, they were like, What budget do you have? 00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:34.080 Budget parameters. 00:18:34.080 --> 00:18:37.680 It's we've got endless budget, we want creative ideas. 00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:38.640 This is a creative process. 00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:40.960 Could you give us any sort of indication budget? 00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:43.200 Just go, you know, go with everything that you've got. 00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:44.240 So that they did. 00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:49.440 And they came back with this that international PR campaign that was like 350,000 quid. 00:18:49.440 --> 00:18:51.759 And it was but it was an amazing campaign. 00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:54.160 The client went, oh, and they pr presented it all. 00:18:54.160 --> 00:18:57.360 They loved it, and they were like, We've only got 50,000. 00:18:57.360 --> 00:18:57.519 Yeah. 00:18:57.519 --> 00:19:00.400 We said, Well, why don't you tell us that at the beginning? 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:02.960 And then so then from then on, he said, I will never. 00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:08.480 We said we made it an issue if there's no budget, we ain't pitching, which I thought was really interesting. 00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:09.360 Oh, totally. 00:19:09.360 --> 00:19:13.759 I I've for many years had a hard, fast rule of no budget, no pitch. 00:19:13.759 --> 00:19:22.960 Um, and there are many polite and nice ways to go about asking the client for for a budget, right? 00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:27.360 You can just say, um, is it possible to have a budget? 00:19:27.360 --> 00:19:41.600 So I can prepare the best plan for you, um, I can tailor the creative ideas, I can uh identify if you've got third-party costs, um, yeah, I really want to get make sure you get the most out of this process. 00:19:41.600 --> 00:19:43.519 Um, so please can you give me a stit? 00:19:43.519 --> 00:19:55.120 If it the answer is no, you can say things like, Okay, well, is it possible um to give me an idea of what you spent in the last year so I can kind of compare it against that? 00:19:55.120 --> 00:19:56.000 Nice. 00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:58.319 Um they may say no to that. 00:19:58.319 --> 00:20:16.319 Um in which in which case you you're gonna get further and further down where you're you're not quite giving them an automaton, but that you're making it very clear that you can say things like, Um personally, I really want to go for this pitch. 00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:18.400 Um, yeah, the brand is great. 00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:28.319 Yeah, really, you know, I like the ambition of what you're trying to do, but my CFO, my big bad CFO, um will not let me pitch if there isn't a budget. 00:20:28.319 --> 00:20:30.000 Can you please help me out? 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:34.240 And you know, there's probably five or six tricks that you can try to do to extract the budget. 00:20:34.240 --> 00:20:42.559 Um, and if that's the case and you're still getting no, then it is a bit of a red flag, and and uh my advice would be not to go for it. 00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:49.440 So on on the on the red flags then, so what other red flags do you see in

thinking from an agency perspective? 00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:56.640 So obviously a lack of a budget, big red flag, you know, we're gonna ask 20 agencies to pitch is possibly a red flag. 00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:04.880 What else kind of um you know uh should agencies watch out for and should brands be careful of? 00:21:05.200 --> 00:21:17.360 I think uh junior clients issuing briefs, um and then not letting you join a call with a senior client, you know, and they they keep it very, very guarded. 00:21:17.360 --> 00:21:20.720 Um I think that is um a bit of a warning. 00:21:20.720 --> 00:21:32.080 Um not always the case with this one, but maybe a new client, and this you know may come across unfair, but a new client in a role um just need to be a little wary of. 00:21:32.080 --> 00:21:50.080 Obviously, new clients want new agencies, but sometimes they're looking for new ideas to to bring um to the party and and might not necessarily you know have the sign-off internally or have been there long enough to um to implement a change of of agency. 00:21:50.080 --> 00:21:52.960 Um so that that that's something else to consider. 00:21:52.960 --> 00:22:07.680 Um and then yeah, I guess going back to running a good process, if they're not uh defining a really good process where you can ask questions, you might be able to have a tissue session to sense check strategic or creative thoughts. 00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:19.200 Um if it's just there's the brief, no other cons turn up on this day, you know, deliver a proposal on this day, then that's a that's a bit of a red flag as well. 00:22:19.600 --> 00:22:31.600 What about I mean, this is a little bit how long is a piece of string, but you know, we've we've had great briefs in, and and they've you you get to the bottom of the brief, they they want a proposal in in eight days. 00:22:31.600 --> 00:22:33.519 And it's just crazy, isn't it? 00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:36.240 You know, who who's who can you know these things take time? 00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:42.640 I mean, what c clients need to be realistic, don't they, about how long to give agencies to respond. 00:22:42.720 --> 00:23:08.960 I mean, is there a hard and fast rule as to how long they need to think you know, yeah, there'll there all be there's always exceptions to to the rule, um, and not to contradict myself, but it may be that there's a fantastic, you know, start up, um you know, it's got lots of you know publicity around it, it's recently got funding, it genuinely doesn't know how much to spend on a on a PR or marketing campaign and it's looking for advice. 00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:24.160 And you might think, look, we've asked all these questions, but we still want to go for it, you know, so that might be an exception, or it might be an amazing brand, um and the budget could be quite low, but you just want to go for it because it's great for portfolio, so there's there's always exceptions. 00:23:24.160 --> 00:23:30.720 Um I think it's always amazing what you can

do in two weeks, right, in an agency. 00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:33.759 Um when when you're given that deadline. 00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:43.519 I think two weeks from having answered all of the questions and got all of the information to then pitch is is okay. 00:23:43.519 --> 00:23:54.400 Um ideally, you probably want a month where you know it's you get the pitch, you then ask questions, you then do chemistry, you then might have a tissue, you then might pitch. 00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:58.640 Um for the bigger briefs, you'll probably get get that time frame. 00:23:58.640 --> 00:24:03.279 Um so I'd kind of operate to those two things, a minimum of two weeks. 00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:16.160 And um we had a a phrase, I think our old C D or E C D used to to use it, um, do you want my first ideas or my best ideas? 00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:26.640 And yeah, the shorter the time frame, it goes back to what we were saying, the you know, the more limited the output is going to be, you know. 00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:36.640 And if you you want to find the best agency, you want the best work, then then give them the time to think and and let them show you what what you can do. 00:24:36.960 --> 00:24:45.279 I I like the graphic that is a triangle and it's um time, quality, speed, uh time, quality, and speed, I think it is. 00:24:45.360 --> 00:24:46.960 Is time, quality, and speed might be another one. 00:24:46.960 --> 00:24:48.640 Time quality, price, I think it might be. 00:24:48.799 --> 00:24:49.759 Price, price, yeah. 00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:50.480 Yeah, that's it. 00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:52.559 Speed, price, and quality. 00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:57.120 And what you know, so less less less money equals less quality. 00:24:57.120 --> 00:24:59.200 Um, quicker means less quality. 00:24:59.200 --> 00:25:00.799 And I just think that works. 00:25:00.799 --> 00:25:07.920 In terms of obviously, this this show is all about marketing mistakes, and you you're a bit of a black belt in the the pitch scenario. 00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:10.559 I think you've got to say black belt and make a mistake then. 00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:13.680 Yeah, are you but are you black belt than that? 00:25:13.680 --> 00:25:15.840 I'm sure you've learned a lot from pitching. 00:25:15.840 --> 00:25:20.160 Have you had any mistakes that you've learned from um while you've been pitching yourself? 00:25:20.480 --> 00:25:24.559 Yeah, so many mistakes, and uh you always gotta learn from your mistakes. 00:25:24.559 --> 00:25:29.120 I can think of um two or three funny ones. 00:25:29.120 --> 00:25:34.080 Um so it ended up being a positive. 00:25:34.080 --> 00:25:45.440 So after three attempts to um pitch to Intercontinental Hotel Group in their their European comms team, uh, we ended up winning business at one of my old agencies. 00:25:45.440 --> 00:26:01.680 Um but prior to that, I think it was the second time uh we pitched, I had this what I thought was genius, but it's actually a terrible idea, um, to bring a magician in disguise into uh into the pitch. 00:26:03.360 --> 00:26:03.680 Okay. 00:26:04.400 --> 00:26:11.279 Um and he was he he was pretending to be you know one of the team, uh account director. 00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:16.400 And then at one point in the presentation we got to the press office part of it. 00:26:16.400 --> 00:26:29.200 Um it was quite early on, and uh we were talking about the target media they wanted to get in, and he's like, right, I'm now gonna show you exactly how we're gonna get you into the Financial Times or something, something along this. 00:26:29.200 --> 00:26:40.480 And stood up, and I think you've probably seen this on YouTube or something, where yeah, you fold up, you rip up the paper, the Financial Times, you do it lots of little squares, and then you just go. 00:26:40.480 --> 00:26:48.319 And then so they're watching this guy rip the Financial Times up and then blows it out and then sticks it back together again. 00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:54.319 And it's like a a tonar moment that just was like a what the f moment. 00:26:54.319 --> 00:27:05.279 They're like, what and then and then he he I he had something else to do, and I was just like, look, that yeah, I was just gonna call it. 00:27:05.279 --> 00:27:07.120 It obviously didn't work, you know. 00:27:07.120 --> 00:27:10.720 We try the theme was around magic, like bringing the magic into something. 00:27:10.720 --> 00:27:10.960 Yeah. 00:27:11.120 --> 00:27:12.720 Well, I was gonna ask what the relevance is. 00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:16.000 Yeah, they're like, the magic's great, but why? 00:27:16.480 --> 00:27:17.519 Did he literally do it? 00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:28.640 And then he went, and then nothing happened, and it was like tumbleweight, it's all up, and you always sat there going pretty much and we just we just called it then and it's like look, yeah, we tried something, it didn't work. 00:27:28.799 --> 00:27:30.720 Uh you can go now if if you want. 00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:35.120 We didn't weren't sure whether he should leave the room or stay there and just witness the rest of it. 00:27:35.360 --> 00:27:36.880 That's a proper walk of shame, isn't it? 00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:38.400 The magician leaves. 00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:40.720 Um that that didn't work. 00:27:40.720 --> 00:28:02.480 We ended up getting lucky when we won it because um the next brief was around the influencer campaign, and we we produced uh these little uh you know, snippets from influencers saying we we really want to work with IHG on this campaign, and um so it was really you know, really nice show we had a good good network of contacts. 00:28:02.480 --> 00:28:20.880 And then the end one was Proudlock from made in Chelsea, and the corporate affairs director and his wife watched that, and the their favourite was was Proudlock and it um so oh my god, you know, you know hearing that work really well, and we ended up uh winning the business, uh, which was which was good. 00:28:20.880 --> 00:28:22.160

Nice. 00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:26.960 That's making me cringe a bit thinking about that magician, even though I I like the ambition. 00:28:27.360 --> 00:28:32.720 I did um we also pitched to a quick one to screw fix once. 00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:41.600 So went up north somewhere, probably not as north as Leeds, but I'm from the south, so anywhere north of M25 is north for me. 00:28:41.600 --> 00:28:48.720 Um so we went to their headquarters and we took up these really heavy proposals, right? 00:28:48.720 --> 00:29:13.840 Um and they were heavy because it was yeah, it was like back in the day where yeah you you needed to hand out readouts, and um we've got sandpaper, this black sandpaper from Screw Fix, and then had the the logo and uh the title of the presentation, like laser edged into this sandpaper, and it was the front and back cover of the proposal. 00:29:13.840 --> 00:29:15.039 So that sounds quite nice. 00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:16.880 Really good. 00:29:16.880 --> 00:29:28.000 So got in, I laid them out on the big the big board and table, I stapped them up, I think it was about eight high on on top of each other, and the CEO comes in and is like, Oh, exactly. 00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:29.759 Your reaction, oh, this looks so good. 00:29:29.759 --> 00:29:36.559 Big tables, so it was awkward, you couldn't quite pick them up, like tables here. 00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:52.559 So he drags them across this like really nice polished wood wood finish and leaves like a snail trail where the where the proposals have sand in the board from Oh no, you're joking. 00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:57.920 Yeah, um but yeah, that that that went down fine. 00:29:57.920 --> 00:30:03.519 Um so it was a simple mistake, but that was a bit of a peace nightmare as well. 00:30:04.160 --> 00:30:05.039 And did did you win that one? 00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:06.319 We did, yeah, we did win that one. 00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:07.759 Yeah, you you you know what, right? 00:30:07.759 --> 00:30:14.720 Because a lot of the pitch nightmares, so some of them are funny, uh, I know which is why I'm I'm thinking of doing a pitch nightmares specific pod. 00:30:14.720 --> 00:30:20.720 Um but often it's the it's the fact that you're memorable, even if you fuck it up right royally. 00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:33.759 Uh because I've been in one and I always I always use this story, but at the end of the pitch, I luckily it was it, I was just the the person I was the account director from the Leeds Office, but the London office were leading it, it was a big government thing. 00:30:33.759 --> 00:30:54.319 And we presented this thing on antisocial behaviour to the government, it was the Labour government at the time, and um uh we finished pitching and the the the client contact who's now a dame and shall remain nameless, um uh she didn't say it, but this the guy next to from from the government, there's loads of them there, went I think your campaign fundamentally lacks credibility. 00:30:54.319 --> 00:31:01.759 And

the room just went, all the oxygen from the room just went, and I remember thinking, shit, I am glad I'm not answering any questions on this. 00:31:01.759 --> 00:31:08.960 And and then instead of defending the response, which is what most People would do go hang on a minute, we've done it. 00:31:08.960 --> 00:31:11.680 Um, actually, the CEO played a blinder. 00:31:11.680 --> 00:31:15.360 He went, Okay, I think we've actually missed you know something here. 00:31:15.360 --> 00:31:18.559 We are really good at what we do, which is why you've got us in the room, da da da da da. 00:31:18.559 --> 00:31:21.519 And he got us to go second pitch and we won it. 00:31:21.519 --> 00:31:32.080 And I think that's because you like you say, when you've got more than four, or especially the governments that get loads of agencies in, you might have fucked something up, but they remember you like and you're you scraping the floor. 00:31:32.080 --> 00:31:33.759 I think maybe maybe that's why you won it. 00:31:33.759 --> 00:31:34.160 I don't know. 00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:39.759 Yeah, yeah, you've got you've got to be uh memorable and human. 00:31:39.759 --> 00:31:47.120 Yeah, you can you can rehearse to death before a pitch, um, and you just come across robotic. 00:31:47.120 --> 00:31:47.840 Yeah. 00:31:47.840 --> 00:32:00.000 You have to embrace you know, messing up, and you know, uh I think that's totally natural, and be honest about it and um yeah, just just yeah, correct it. 00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:03.440 Don't worry about stuttering or forgetting your lines. 00:32:03.440 --> 00:32:08.240 People want to see that they're gonna be working with people, not these robots. 00:32:08.799 --> 00:32:11.200 Is that kind of um theatrical side of it? 00:32:11.200 --> 00:32:19.279 I know I I mean when we spoke with Andrew Block on a previous pod, he was sort of talking about didn't he have an ambulance that he used to do pitches in in his office or something? 00:32:19.279 --> 00:32:31.759 Yeah, but he was and that's you know, particularly the kind of consumer shops, that's really the you know, you hear a lot of that kind of really going the extra mile and doing these kind of almost experiential kind of pitches. 00:32:31.759 --> 00:32:40.000 Is that important or is it a kind of you know, as a I suppose couldn't, you know, from is it just about memorability, you know? 00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:49.039 Yeah, it is important, but I think in 2025, 2026, you've you've got to do it for the right client, right? 00:32:49.039 --> 00:32:50.880 So I'll give you two examples. 00:32:50.880 --> 00:33:12.319 Um going back to one of the brands I mentioned earlier, I won't mention mention who, they told us that they said no to an agency at chemistry stage um when they came to their office because they'd put out you know balloons and props and stuff, and they were very big into sustainability. 00:33:12.319 --> 00:33:20.000 So, you know, using uh you know plastic, you know, that wasn't going to be reused was a big no-no for them. 00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:25.920 So, you know, think think that element of it through and think think it from from from all basis. 00:33:25.920 --> 00:33:32.880 Um, and then on the flip side, I can remember pitching to Air France KLM, really, really good client. 00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:39.840 This is probably seven or eight years ago, um, you know, a brand that most agencies want to work with. 00:33:39.840 --> 00:33:52.319 So when they came into our office, we had um yeah uh the correct term for them, the poles with the uh like the loops, the chains like you get at an airport when you're queuing up. 00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:52.880 Yeah, yeah. 00:33:53.519 --> 00:33:56.319 A bit of a blue carpet going into the meeting room. 00:33:56.319 --> 00:34:04.880 When we were in the meeting room, we had uh sofas kind of set out like an airport lounge, we had magazines on the back, you had plants and coffees and stuff. 00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:19.199 And uh the receptionists on the building gave them uh like the room details and the pitch agenda on the boarding cars when they came into the room, so we'd set it up for them like it was a bit of an airport lounge, and and that worked really good. 00:34:19.199 --> 00:34:26.159 The design of the presentation, the breaker slides were like the the ticket tacker boards at airports, um, and we won that pitch. 00:34:26.159 --> 00:34:28.159 That was a really good pitch. 00:34:28.159 --> 00:34:33.039 Um so I remember pitching to another client. 00:34:33.039 --> 00:34:37.199 Uh we knew it was the day after their Christmas party. 00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:43.279 So we didn't know big theatre or anything, just little little uh sort of token gesture. 00:34:43.279 --> 00:34:58.239 We provided them with like Alka Seltzer and um and uh Barocca and had like a few little hangover kits just in the meeting and just said look you know if you're feeling made a joke out of there, if you're feeling rough after your party, hope you had a good night, then help yourself today. 00:34:58.239 --> 00:35:00.639 I was like, Oh my god, I need that. 00:35:00.639 --> 00:35:01.920 Yeah, thank you. 00:35:02.239 --> 00:35:08.960 I've I've read um, you know, um back in the heyday of Sarchi and Sarchi, I used to read about um some of the stunts they used to pull. 00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:13.679 So I think I think it was they were pitching for um BA. 00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:22.480 And at the time BA's um customer service was considered really poor, and the you know, the cabin crew were considered quite obnoxious and things. 00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:25.759 And basically they made they left them in reception, did it? 00:35:26.399 --> 00:35:30.399 Yeah, and then someone served them drinks and spilt the coffee all over the telephone. 00:35:30.399 --> 00:35:35.519 There's all this stuff, and then and then the payoff was you know, this is what the what consumers think about you. 00:35:35.519 --> 00:35:51.519 And I think they did another one

which is for is for British Rail at the time, and they they they did the pitch in a cinema, but basically kept them wait, yeah, kept them waiting like 45 minutes, and everyone was just about to go up and leave, and then they were like, This is what your customers feel like because your trains are always late. 00:35:51.519 --> 00:35:53.599 Yeah, I've had and it's so bold, isn't it? 00:35:54.079 --> 00:35:57.839 That is that I mean that that is brave, that is brave, isn't it? 00:35:57.839 --> 00:35:59.039 Yeah, to win the pitch. 00:35:59.199 --> 00:35:59.599 Yeah. 00:35:59.839 --> 00:36:00.719 Um cool. 00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:02.799 Well, um, thanks for coming on the show, James. 00:36:02.799 --> 00:36:06.000 Um, if people want to get old of you, um, how do they get hold of you? 00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:07.599 How where can they find you? 00:36:07.919 --> 00:36:13.599 Yeah, so go to my website, sprintpartners.co, um, or just look for me on on LinkedIn. 00:36:13.599 --> 00:36:16.000 Um, probably the easiest way. 00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:21.599 Um, James Tomlinson with a H T on LinkedIn. 00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:25.599 Uh always happy to jump on the call and answer any questions. 00:36:25.599 --> 00:36:28.719 Um yeah, thank you for having me. 00:36:28.719 --> 00:36:32.639 Um and uh yeah, look forward to catching up with you guys soon. 00:36:33.039 --> 00:36:34.000 Def definitely. 00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:42.000 Um actually I've forgotten to ask you one question, which is um you've been on the show now, and um you you know what it's like. 00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:46.799 Um if you were us, who is the next person you would have on this show and why? 00:36:48.719 --> 00:36:55.919 I would have a brand so they can give you the alternative perspective um to me. 00:36:55.919 --> 00:36:56.159 Yeah. 00:36:56.159 --> 00:37:00.319 Um that's my that's my uh response to being put on the spot. 00:37:00.319 --> 00:37:08.559 Um I think someone in in AI, um everyone's talking about AI. 00:37:08.559 --> 00:37:19.439 Um someone who is a real industry leader and you know can talk about you know practical tips for using AI day to day uh or what the future is. 00:37:19.439 --> 00:37:22.960 I think people are uh are interested in both those those topics. 00:37:22.960 --> 00:37:36.000 I was actually at a s uh an event this week called Festival of New Business, and there was a surprisingly good, he was quite divisive, but a surprisingly good uh speaker there called George King. 00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:39.279 Uh and he's famous because he scaled the shard. 00:37:39.279 --> 00:37:39.679 Right? 00:37:39.679 --> 00:37:41.279 Oh, yeah, I remember it. 00:37:41.279 --> 00:37:55.919 And yeah, we didn't really know why he was there, but then he he spoke about you know being fearless, being disciplined, you know, leave no stone unturned in your preparation, and then he applied it to new business and pitching. 00:37:55.919 --> 00:38:00.719 He was good at uh yeah, maybe maybe have a look at those. 00:38:01.039 --> 00:38:01.679 Okay, cool. 00:38:01.679 --> 00:38:02.960 Well, well, well, thank you very much. 00:38:03.119 --> 00:38:03.839 Yeah, that was great. 00:38:03.919 --> 00:38:04.960 Thanks for that, James.