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And welcome friends to Generations Kevin Swanson with you today, Todd Strasser and Bill Roach with us with another segment of Discipleship for Dads.
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So I'm here to learn some things from you, brothers.
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So uh you know, this is an opportunity for iron sharpening iron, just a little bit of mutual edification, and hopefully we'll edify a few of the guys listening to the program right now.
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And this comes from a letter that was sent into the program.
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And by the way, if you have anything to put on the table, yeah, it's uh host at generations.com or uh mail at generations.com, either way.
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Okay, so um this this man he's he's come to the point where he came to solid biblical teaching about three years ago, uh, and his former beliefs have been blown to pieces.
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His list is long, he's not gonna give us the list.
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Um but it has to do with the training of his children.
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Um he says that during his son's early years, we were exposed to some of the quote gentle parenting nonsense, and the rod was hardly ever deployed.
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As my son, now 11 years of age, grows older and boundary testing becomes more robust.
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I am convinced more than ever that the fact that I neglected the rod used very infrequently, but to good effect when deployed, has the potential to backfire down the line.
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Where I am struggling is how to now start using the rod, not having done it consistently for many years, and even finding myself wondering if it's not too late, that I may have missed the window of opportunity.
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My son is not rebellious and knows what obedience looks like, but I'm concerned that continuing on the path I am now will cause more pain down the line.
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In other words, not using the rod in the future is going to have some troubles.
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Please help me.
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Okay, so that's the question he poses to us.
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And I I I want to I want to you know broaden this, at least initially, to say, okay, you're navigating changes, theological and practical reforming in your life, and this is what happens to all of us.
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You know, we we we change, we hopefully are improving a bit, but often our wives and our children don't come around quite so quickly.
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And I think that's actually almost the principle.
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Sometimes our wives are a little more so-quote unquote conservative and staying, you know, on the track in these men are have this radical reforming going on.
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And that that's not unusual in families, whether it be in the theological realm or the more practical realm.
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Um so how do we navigate these changes?
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Now, one of the things you've said, Bill, all the time at Father-Son retreats and different things, you say, Well, you've learned some things here.
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Be careful how you implement that.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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You want to you change change can come slowly, right?
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You've got to remember that God does the pruning.
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He uses us.
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But it's at the end of the day, I was reading in John chapter 15 this morning.
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Uh every branch that does not bear fruit, he prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
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So God's desire is that there's going to be much fruit in this family's life.
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But he's the one that has to do the pruning.
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I think he prunes me first.
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Don't forget that.
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He's working on this guy.
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He's working on you.
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That's right.
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There's a God is very efficient.
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When he's working on one, he's always working on the other.
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But don't feel like you've lost an opportunity or there's only so much window that you have.
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God knows exactly where you are.
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He knows when you were messed up theologically, and now he knows that you're you're proving theology.
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But I'd say the best theology is that you realize that you're a sinner, that you're repenting, you're confessing, and that's going to be the best way to get to your son's heart.
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And I think at least humbly confessing that you didn't have it right, that's right.
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And that uh, you know, the word of God is instructing you.
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And you're sitting at the feet of Jesus and you're listening to him, and he's teaching you some things.
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Right.
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And uh you want to share those with your children as well.
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And the idea that somehow, you know, I'm learning about parental authority here.
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I'm just gonna impose as much authority as I possibly can upon y'all.
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That doesn't go well.
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It's better to say I am increasingly under the authority of Jesus.
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And and Jesus is telling us that we need to, you know, love our enemies, be kind to those who despitefully use us, and we need to grow in this
Load full transcript
area and that area in our family, and I'm the first one who needs to confess and to grow in these areas.
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I think that's what you're saying here.
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Yes, yes, yes.
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This is God is that's God is gonna help us to do this.
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That we I need first of all to be to be humbled.
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You know, somebody said that there are two types of people in the world.
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There are humble people and those who will be humbled.
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Well, now you're getting into the second category, you know, and you you're you're moving over to the first group.
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Yeah.
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Okay, Todd, your thoughts on on this.
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Um, yeah, I really appreciate this this dad's desire to see, you know, his son raised uh in with with you know some some obedience and respect.
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That's that's what he says, and that's that is really important.
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Um but underneath that, right, what's going on is a soul that uh that trusts God because otherwise, you know, obedience is just it's just expedient or external.
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Yeah, so so there's there's the heart, there's the shepherding of the heart to Christ.
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That's fundamental.
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And then there's also a relationship between the father and the son here.
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Um and you know, sometimes we get these questions and it's hard to know everything.
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Maybe there's all that taking place wonderfully, but I think those are very foundational.
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I mean, we we just don't want to jump to, well, let's fix the behavior.
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Uh we we go, yeah, what's going on in this child's soul?
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Is this is the child trusting in God?
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Is he is that is the fruit being born out of obedience and respect from that?
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And the relationship where the father, if he's confessing, he's he's a sinner, he's saying, I'm confessing, I'm a sinner before God, I have to trust in Jesus, we all have to trust in Christ.
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Um, is that happening which will enable the son to look to his father and to trust him?
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So let's be sure that the bigger picture of gospel shepherding is happening.
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You know, it's not just this, okay, I've just got to make sure you're obeying here.
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That's right.
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But be sure that the entire picture of the gospel is understood.
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Here's another question that seems to be underlying all of it, which underlies, you know, all of parenting, and that is,
what is it to love a child?
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We to love.
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We're called to love.
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And then we talk about tough love, right?
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It's a pretty typical approach.
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Uh in God applies a tough love to us because of the discipline that he brings to us.
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Got it.
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But what is it to love a child, and how do we communicate that to the child day to day?
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And I think I think the first question any parent has to ask is, do I really love the child?
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Right.
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I mean, you know, be honest about it for a moment, and maybe perhaps you don't.
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If you don't, then confess that.
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Ask God for help here that he would put the love of God into into you.
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And and now you're you know, your child is seeing that love expressed in a hundred different ways, not just in the use of the rod, but other ways as well.
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And I do think the introduction of a fair amount of firmness into the home might be appropriate.
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The idea of gentle parenting, we've had a program on this, is uh is that there's not a firmness about the parenting, but ultimately, what do we want in terms of firmness?
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Well, a conviction concerning the truth of God's word, uh a fear of God, right?
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Blessed is the man who fears the God the the Lord, his seed shall be mighty in the earth, Psalm 112.
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And so I guess the question is: do I fear God?
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Do I love God?
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Do I love his commandments?
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And am I grieved when my children are being unkind to each other, dishonoring of their mother, and you know, just in these fights and expressing anger all day long, and you see this chaos in the home, this you know, constant violation of the commandments of God, and it's grieving to you because you love God, because you fear God, and and you know, perhaps perhaps weeping a bit in the presence of your children.
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Like, why are you weeping, Dad?
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Well, I'm weeping because we're breaking the commandments of God in this home.
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We don't love God, and we're not loving each other, and it just causes grief to my heart.
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I think that would be, you know, the first way in which we express our commitment and our convictions concerning, you know, God and his holy law in our home.
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So I guess let's start there and then and then we can work you know into perhaps the application of the rod.
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Your thoughts, Phil?
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You know, the there are attributes of God.
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I when I think of fathering, I think of attributes of God that I want to display for my children.
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Somebody said that a father is the first look that a child has of who God is, which makes sense to me.
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There's two attributes of God that I'm very thankful for: his faithfulness or consistency and his mercy.
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Okay.
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And those are the two that I want to emulate in my fatherhood.
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Almost like more than anything else.
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More more than, you know, love.
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There's lots of them.
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I mean, even gentleness is a great word.
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These other people, they they co-op these words and then and then twist it up.
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Gentle parenting is good when it's really truly in gentleness, but mercy and consistency.
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I think one of the most difficult things our children deal with is when we're inconsistent, when the rules change, when we're we do things because we're irritated rather because we're doing things in love.
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And then mercy always triumphs over judgment.
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Our children, if I want my every one of my children to to walk away from my home saying, you know, dad was a merciful man.
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I remember that.
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That's what I want them to remember.
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Exactly.
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Thoughts on this thought.
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You know, I've been you know teaching through the Sermon on the Mount in the evening service, you know, and I and I and it's it's good to see Christ is just so direct, you know, and he he's making it very clear that the heart is how you love.
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You know, are we are we are we showing this love to the heart of the child, not just you know to the outward behaviors, but I think what it what this ultimately comes down to is love is is faith.
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It it takes faith on the dad that I look, I can't do this.
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It's I have to, it's God that's gonna do this.
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I trust that God will do this.
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Right.
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And it's faith in the child too.
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It's we're trusting God together.
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We're we're looking to God, you know, trust in the Lord with all your heart, lean not on your own understanding.
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How how do we teach that to a child?
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It's not it's not gentle parenting, it's not, well, you can just do whatever you want.
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No.
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How does the father trust in the Lord?
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And I think it's ultimately by, which is really the same ideas, fearing God and recognizing that God has given us so much, what he's given us through his son, and how are we now responding to that in faith?
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I want to contrast the strong-willed in-your-face kind of child uh with the complacent child for a moment.
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Thankfully, the complacent child is sinless and innocent, and there's no issues.
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And so we're just gonna ignore that person and we're gonna move on to the strong-willed, in-your-face kind of disobedient kid in the home, to which you would say that's ridiculous.
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Uh because you know, at the end of the day, often the complacent child is doing the best possible to keep you happy while suppressing some of the issues that that may appear in their teenage years or later on the young adult years.
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So be careful.
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Be careful.
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Uh all of our children need Jesus, and all of our children need a measure of corrupted correction.
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I think also the complacent child may actually be the harder child to understand.
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Right, right.
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You know, under where are they coming from?
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Right, right.
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Are they hiding something?
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What is it?
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You've got to dig deeper.
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Jesus had 12 disciples, so nobody can say to him, you don't know what it's like to deal with this kind of thing.
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Right, or that kind of thing.
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He had 12 different ones.
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And I'm sure he had a complacent one, he had a Peter, he had somebody else that was quiet, and he had a Judas, all in the same group.
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So God is God is ready to meet us wherever we are with with our child.
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And so we we must do the best we can to understand each of our children.
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And gentleness, I think, ties into this as well.
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Right.
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Because gentleness, the way I see it, and you know, the praus Greek term for gentleness, meaning using the biblical terminology, uh, a calibration of the grip.
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A calibration of the give grip.
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There's times at which you do have to, you know, calibrate that gif to that grip to 47 psi versus 3 psi.
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You're gripping something just a bit harder than you would a more tender person.
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Right.
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And uh, and I say this, of course, metaphorically, it's it's like a robot grip on a heavy rock versus a light wine glass, different ways in which you would treat it.
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Uh so calibrating to the strong-willed child, uh calibrating to the complacent child, but still there has to be something of a grip.
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There has to be now I'm not talking about control here, I'm just simply talking about truthfully, you know, bringing a message to a child.
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A lot of this is truth, expressing truth, saying, you know, you violated God's law in this way, or you're hiding something and you're not really walking in the light right now.
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And I just want to point that out to you.
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You know, this is the way that we want to uh we want to disciple our children.
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We want to be sure that everything is on the table, in the light, and we are expressing God's truth to them.
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Uh the rod, as I see it, is more so an expression of the law of God.
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You violated God's laws in this area, and then the gospel comes in and says, Yeah, Jesus is here to save us from these sins.
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And I I want to present the gospel to you as well.
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Let's pray to Jesus and ask him to help us here.
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So I guess it's the full picture that needs to be conveyed, and it may be conveyed in different ways to different children.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And you see, you see in the word uh gentleness, uh often near loving kindness.
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And so you're gentle out of love, but that calibration you're talking about is very, very important.
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And I I think you know, this is this is like to dads out there, this is somewhere where dads go go wrong.
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Like they're they're they we all wanna we're very task-oriented.
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We wanna we see a problem, we want to address it.
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Well, if I'm firmer, if I'm firmer or maybe too strong, it will fix it quicker.
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Yeah, that's not really how it works.
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And or you know, and the opposite is if I'm just ah, just do whatever you want to do, well, that's disastrous as well.
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And I think we see Christ do this too.
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You know, I was thinking about how um uh in Matthew 6, you know, they're there the disciples are all worried and he says, do not worry.
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And he he doesn't say you have no faith.
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He says, You have little faith.
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Oh, you have little faith, do not worry.
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I mean, even that is gentle.
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He could have said, Are you even saved?
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No, he doesn't say he doesn't, he just says, you know, let's let's let's trust God.
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Let's grow our faith, let's trust God more and not worry.
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And I think that's how a dad comes alongside.
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You know, and and again, John 15 this morning is meditating on this uh the vine and the branches.
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And the this analogy is so good because you have this you have this vine or you have this tree and it has all these branches, and God's gonna come in and cut out some of the branches, but it doesn't look better right away, except that the the the you know the dead ones are gone or the ones that aren't doing well, but it takes a while for the fruit to produce.
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So you're just you're just heading down a new path.
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What the rod does is redirects the path, but it doesn't fix things right away.
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It's a it's a setting of the heart for a new path that God designs.
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That's what the pruning's for.
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Let's talk about the rod for an 11-year-old, 12, 13, 14, 15-year-old.
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Um, I think I was 14 or 15 years of age where my dad applied the rod the last time to me.
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And I guess the goal is not to have to use the rod.
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Absolutely.
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Right?
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I mean, we don't want that.
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We would like not to have to use the rod or God using it on us in uh our child raising.
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So what how how do you brothers take that?
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Um I I assume it differs per child.
00:16:38.240 --> 00:16:41.120
Every child's an individual, and we will you know it's a tailor made.
00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:44.159
It's a foolishness calibration, right?
00:16:44.559 --> 00:16:46.879
What foolishness is bound up in the heart of the child.
00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:49.519
The rod of correction will drive it far from them.
00:16:49.679 --> 00:16:56.559
So the the child's foolish at 10, 11, 12, 13, you're still using the rod in uh in my opinion.
00:16:57.200 --> 00:16:58.480
And you would just continue to use it.
00:16:59.840 --> 00:17:00.559
As long as they're in the hole.
00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:04.160
Yeah, I I mean you're I'm trying to I don't even remember.
00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:06.000
I think it was around 13 or 14.
00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:08.240
Um each child was different for sure.
00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:11.119
I think I had a son that was was a little bit longer.
00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:13.519
He just kept uh on a foolish path.
00:17:13.680 --> 00:17:17.680
I'm not saying
that all the foolish, every last drop of foolishness is out.
00:17:17.920 --> 00:17:24.000
Uh you know, but you you generally have a path of away from foolishness towards towards wisdom.
00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:30.720
But certainly at 11 years old, and boys seem to be more so in this in this category.
00:17:31.119 --> 00:17:42.160
Well, I think the last time I used the rod for uh one of my children was when they uh were egregiously dishonoring to their mother.
00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:42.720
Right.
00:17:43.759 --> 00:17:48.480
So and that would have been, I'm thinking, 14 somewhere in there.
00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:51.599
There was an egregious level of dishonor to mother.
00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:56.000
Does the is the rod applied at levels of egregiousness?
00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:56.720
Does it make sense?
00:17:56.960 --> 00:17:59.279
Yeah, I I would definitely say that.
00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:08.559
In fact, even for this this guy reintroducing at 11, I would say at first for the blatant dishonor, blatant disrespect, lying.
00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:12.079
That was a big one in my home, too, that where the rod was used.
00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:15.839
Todd, any thoughts on the use of the rod for older children?
00:18:16.480 --> 00:18:19.119
So I think it's it's gonna vary on the family.
00:18:19.279 --> 00:18:24.880
I don't think we want you know, there's not a rule, hard and fast rule that whatever this age you stop, this age you start.
00:18:25.279 --> 00:18:26.880
But um so it's gonna be different for every family.
00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:30.000
And I think within the family, it's gonna be different for every child.
00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:32.400
Some child children are gonna respond differently.
00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:37.680
I mean, there are there are children that you can you can use the rod and it doesn't it doesn't affect them.
00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:39.039
They don't flinch, you know.
00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:44.000
They don't I mean the Lord the Lord tells us it's doing something in their heart, so we we need to follow that.
00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:44.319
Right.
00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:51.200
But you'll see others, I think um we we see others where you can just come alongside and it breaks their heart, you know, and that's all it takes.
00:18:51.359 --> 00:19:00.160
Um but one thing I just will say on this is that I to as much as you can, husband and wife need to have some unity on this because that that can go sideways too, right?
00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:04.000
If if one husband or wife are not on the same page on how to go about that.
00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:06.400
So it's a good thing for husband and wife to talk about.
00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:06.720
Right.
00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:16.559
Um, I mean the father can lead in that, but but may the the marriage unity be one so that the children are approached similarly in times of correction.
00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:17.039
Right.
00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:24.640
Also, I think I would recommend that the dad be
more involved in that level of correction versus mom in the later years.
00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:25.200
Oh, yeah.
00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:25.440
Yes.
00:19:25.599 --> 00:19:37.039
Um, nevertheless, it may be that mom and dad should both be there to just exhort and to support one another and to uh to pray with.
00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:49.119
And remember, we don't isolate the rod from love, from prayer, from gospel, gospel, all that ties right in this idea that it's all law, all regulation, all behavioral modification.
00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:52.480
I mean, that that, my friends, is a recipe for disaster.
00:19:52.799 --> 00:20:00.400
If if our child training turns into behavioral modification, then all you're doing is training the external.
00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:00.720
Right.
00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:09.519
The heart is just completely full of all that green goo, and they get out of the house, and that heart just explodes and green goo goes all over the place.
00:20:09.920 --> 00:20:17.440
Let me just say, just a reminder, I think we've said it before, but this is not a time to just be expedient because you're busy with life.
00:20:17.599 --> 00:20:35.680
And I was actually, you know, with some with some uh clients, and uh the the child was misbehaving and the child needed to be corrected, but but just to grab the child and you know whack them and and I understood like it was embarrassing and all those things, but of course I'm going like take your time.
00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:39.599
Like this is this is so important in a child's life.
00:20:39.839 --> 00:20:40.960
Just take your time.
00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:43.200
We can we can handle this just to handle it right.
00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:45.279
It's just not a time for expediency, it's a time for love.
00:20:46.079 --> 00:20:52.640
What about the guy that comes in from the the other door that he was overdoing the rod and he had bad theology in the use of the rod?
00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:58.160
I remember early on I got a hold of that book that said, if the child does this thing, give them three swabs.
00:20:58.319 --> 00:21:00.000
If the child does this, give them eight swabs.
00:21:01.279 --> 00:21:02.160
No, and it was nice.
00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:05.680
It was looking my accounting mind said, oh, this is a good way to do it.
00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:07.279
That was not a good way to do it.
00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:16.480
Thankfully it didn't last but maybe two two weeks or something that I realized that that was but you might have somebody coming in from the other side that's that's using the rod in a wrong way.
00:21:16.640 --> 00:21:16.799
Yes.
00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:26.000
And uh we need to make sure, again, this idea of love and and mercy, and the rod is just a tool, but the heart is the real issue.
00:22:50.259 --> 00:22:55.860
Well, let's talk about um maintaining your son's heart through this.
00:22:56.100 --> 00:22:58.180
I think it's uh Proverbs 23.
00:22:58.500 --> 00:23:02.259
We find the father in the book of Proverbs crying out, My son, give me your heart.
00:23:02.340 --> 00:23:04.660
Uh come close, observe my ways.
00:23:04.980 --> 00:23:15.220
And so there is something about retaining the heart of your child during this these years and uh even through the corrections.
00:23:15.460 --> 00:23:18.180
And yet at the same time, there's a balance here, right?
00:23:18.259 --> 00:23:23.460
We we're not such people pleasers or child pleasers that that we neglect.
00:23:24.100 --> 00:23:25.220
The God pleasing.
00:23:25.539 --> 00:23:27.700
The God pleasing is fundamental, right?
00:23:28.019 --> 00:23:29.220
That's number one in our home.
00:23:29.539 --> 00:23:29.779
Absolutely.
00:23:30.980 --> 00:23:35.940
We are not child pleasers to the loss of the God pleasing.
00:23:36.019 --> 00:23:38.420
So we fear God first and foremost.
00:23:38.660 --> 00:23:42.660
And our goal in our home is to fear God and keep his commandments.
00:23:45.140 --> 00:23:47.700
But how do we retain the heart of our child, Bill?
00:23:48.180 --> 00:23:50.900
Is there a sense in which sometimes you're losing the heart of the child?
00:23:51.140 --> 00:23:52.819
You want to retain the heart of the child?
00:23:52.900 --> 00:23:54.259
How do you keep the heart of the child?
00:23:54.340 --> 00:23:57.700
Trevor Burrus, I'm humility is always a path.
00:23:57.940 --> 00:24:01.779
Remember, you're you want to be in a place where God's grace is in the home, right?
00:24:01.940 --> 00:24:05.059
Because you need his grace, you need his mercy.
00:24:05.220 --> 00:24:07.460
And he says he gives grace to the humble.
00:24:07.539 --> 00:24:13.059
So when you when you come to your children, especially the boys, and you're just saying, you know what, I've just really messed up.
00:24:13.299 --> 00:24:14.740
Dad just doesn't have it together.
00:24:14.819 --> 00:24:17.380
He's got he makes mistakes, he sins.
00:24:17.620 --> 00:24:22.340
You know, there's just there's very few young people that reject that.
00:24:22.580 --> 00:24:24.420
Just like, ah, dad's just a wimp.
00:24:24.580 --> 00:24:26.900
Look at him just confessing his sins over there.
00:24:27.299 --> 00:24:37.460
No, I think it you want to draw your children's heart to you, you do it through confession and and and uh crying out to God and just saying, we're in this together.
00:24:37.700 --> 00:24:38.980
We all need God.
00:24:39.380 --> 00:24:42.100
Not I'm not the judge over you needing God.
00:24:42.500 --> 00:24:44.740
And I guess I want to express it this way.
00:24:44.980 --> 00:24:48.980
How do our children pick up the fact that we love them?
00:24:49.380 --> 00:24:51.380
Well, number one, do I love them?
00:24:51.539 --> 00:24:56.420
And I'm communicating the fact that I do love them because I think that's a lot of what we're talking about here.
00:24:56.500 --> 00:25:03.460
When the hearts of the fathers turn to the children, children to the fathers, Malachi 4, 6 and Proverbs 23.
00:25:04.100 -->
00:25:06.740
Uh, there has to be some love.
00:25:07.220 --> 00:25:14.420
You know, my child must be loving me, I must be loving my child, and somehow we need to communicate that one to another.
00:25:14.660 --> 00:25:16.019
So, Todd, thoughts on that?
00:25:16.100 --> 00:25:17.299
Have you have you thought through that at all?
00:25:17.620 --> 00:25:18.180
It's very important.
00:25:18.259 --> 00:25:30.420
I mean, Jesus, his his his his his biggest warnings uh were, you know, don't be like the Pharisees, don't be this cold-hearted, just outward-looking idea.
00:25:30.580 --> 00:25:34.819
He said, Let the children come to me, you know, sort of this picture of come and sit on my lap.
00:25:34.980 --> 00:25:44.420
So there's that affection, there's that kind of love shown, but it's shown by grace, by I'm I'm a sinner trusting in God uh just like you.
00:25:44.660 --> 00:25:52.500
So I we need to, dads, we need to cultivate that relationship that that Christ is calling us to first.
00:25:52.660 --> 00:26:01.220
I mean, that is the foundation, and it's it's a relationship that I love God because He's loved me, and I can love my children because I'm loved by God in the same way.
00:26:01.460 --> 00:26:04.819
And brothers, I have to say, I think this is the most convicting thing in my life.
00:26:06.180 --> 00:26:17.299
Can I confess this in front of three thousand people or whatever I I'm just not sure that I love my children, I love my wife as I should.
00:26:18.660 --> 00:26:20.019
I'm I'm a busy guy.
00:26:20.500 --> 00:26:22.019
Do I invest the time in them?
00:26:22.500 --> 00:26:23.299
Do I pray for them?
00:26:23.380 --> 00:26:25.940
And that's one reason we're doing this men pray initiative.
00:26:26.259 --> 00:26:26.580
For me.
00:26:26.819 --> 00:26:28.100
We're actually doing it for me, it turns out.
00:26:28.420 --> 00:26:28.980
I heard you pray.
00:26:29.299 --> 00:26:30.740
Lord, help me be less selfish.
00:26:30.980 --> 00:26:31.059
Yeah.
00:26:31.299 --> 00:26:32.420
I heard you pray that this morning.
00:26:32.819 --> 00:26:33.140
With the guys.
00:26:33.940 --> 00:26:34.819
On the men pray initiative.
00:26:35.779 --> 00:26:40.900
So, brothers, how do we discern our own love?
00:26:42.259 --> 00:26:44.980
And what are the things that are getting in the way?
00:26:45.539 --> 00:26:50.100
What are the blockages in terms of how we love our children?
00:26:50.420 --> 00:26:57.220
Now, gr yeah, granted, we're we're firm and we say, hey, stop dishonoring mother, start obeying God, believe in Jesus.
00:26:57.380 --> 00:26:59.620
Okay, I gotta get on with life.
00:27:00.420 --> 00:27:02.340
That can't be all there is to it.
00:27:02.580 --> 00:27:02.819
Bill?
00:27:04.819 --> 00:27:08.660
When your children sin, does it irritate you or does it break your heart?
00:27:08.980 --> 00:27:09.620
That's good.
00:27:09.940 --> 00:27:16.100
The more that it just irritates you is you probably have a love of self because they're bothering you.
00:27:16.580 --> 00:27:19.700
Breaks your heart, you have a love of God and you have a love for your child.
00:27:19.940 --> 00:27:20.340
It's good.
00:27:20.500 --> 00:27:20.660
Yeah.
00:27:20.900 --> 00:27:21.220
Todd.
00:27:21.539 --> 00:27:26.180
And and you know, as dads, we the tyranny of the urgent is always always souls.
00:27:26.980 --> 00:27:31.539
You know, are we thinking, okay, today I've got to fix this, I'm busy today.
00:27:31.779 --> 00:27:36.259
And I I just, you know, what's what's helped me in this is just to think about lasting things.
00:27:36.500 --> 00:27:45.380
Think about I mean, often I have to tell myself, okay, this child's like eight or whatever, but how is how is this gonna look when they're 40?
00:27:45.700 --> 00:27:51.380
And it helps me slow down a little bit and just really set my mind on things above and go, father, help me.
00:27:51.460 --> 00:27:56.259
Like help help me help me teach this child the truth, help me love them right now.
00:27:56.420 --> 00:27:58.340
I don't want to just be a fixer today.
00:27:58.420 --> 00:28:02.259
I want to be a father for for 40 years and love them.
00:28:02.420 --> 00:28:04.580
Yeah, and am I forgiving them?
00:28:04.740 --> 00:28:05.380
Yeah.
00:28:05.700 --> 00:28:12.019
Am I you know putting up with a lot of grief from them?
00:28:13.220 --> 00:28:16.340
Am I always coming back to the table?
00:28:16.660 --> 00:28:18.100
Am I praying for them?
00:28:18.180 --> 00:28:22.420
Right, am I working towards restoring relationships with them?
00:28:23.059 --> 00:28:29.380
Am I doing something to overcome the blockages that tend to rise up in relationships?
00:28:29.539 --> 00:28:30.019
Right.
00:28:30.340 --> 00:28:31.860
Am I spending time with them?
00:28:32.100 --> 00:28:33.620
Am I praying for them?
00:28:33.860 --> 00:28:39.220
Am I um does love bear all things, believe all things, hope all things, endure all things?
00:28:40.180 --> 00:28:42.900
Uh you know, am I rejoicing in the truth?
00:28:43.140 --> 00:28:43.299
Right.
00:28:43.460 --> 00:28:45.620
And I think, you know, am I affirming them?
00:28:45.779 --> 00:28:47.380
Am I grateful for them?
00:28:47.779 --> 00:28:50.180
Am I expressing that I am grateful for them?
00:28:50.340 --> 00:28:57.779
I these are the sorts of things that keep occurring to me, and I think the Holy Spirit is really convicting me of these things.
00:28:57.860 --> 00:28:59.299
I want to grow in these areas, Bill.
00:29:00.019 --> 00:29:01.140
Are you interruptible?
00:29:01.220 --> 00:29:03.220
We've mentioned that's huge, right?
00:29:03.380 --> 00:29:09.620
And when you're interruptible, you're saying I esteem you as better than myself for the Philippians 2 kind of way.
00:29:09.940 --> 00:29:15.539
When um I'm ready for God to alter my path and alter my direction to help you.
00:29:15.700 --> 00:29:16.819
I'm ready for that.
00:29:16.980 --> 00:29:18.740
That speaks volumes of love.
00:29:19.059 --> 00:29:19.460
And yeah.
00:29:19.700 -->
00:29:22.740
Another way to say that is be willing to be disturbed.
00:29:22.980 --> 00:29:25.620
You know, we have our agenda and our plan for the day.
00:29:26.180 --> 00:29:28.340
How can we be willing it to be disturbed?
00:29:28.420 --> 00:29:31.220
And you talked about affirming, which is so important.
00:29:31.380 --> 00:29:33.700
And I think a lot of us dads forget about that.
00:29:33.940 --> 00:29:35.860
Like, well, they're doing this wrong, let me affix that.
00:29:36.019 --> 00:29:37.539
Oh, they're doing something good, whatever.
00:29:37.700 --> 00:29:43.539
But we have to we have to affirm, we have to encourage, you know, on a on a high ratio level.
00:29:43.700 --> 00:29:46.500
Like, are we affirming and encouraging and building up?
00:29:46.660 --> 00:29:51.620
I mean, that's what we're called to do, and stirring one another up to love and good works and just giving that to our children.
00:29:51.700 --> 00:29:55.299
Aaron Powell I sense we've been all over the map on this edition of the program.
00:29:55.620 --> 00:29:55.779
All right.
00:29:56.100 --> 00:29:58.819
Which is okay, because I think we need to be all over the map.
00:29:58.900 --> 00:30:01.700
And we need to we've been trying to get to the heart of the matter.
00:30:02.019 --> 00:30:03.220
I think that's what we're doing here.
00:30:03.380 --> 00:30:05.700
And I'm not sure we answered this brother's questions.
00:30:06.100 --> 00:30:15.460
We did the best we could, and if there's anything else we could add to this, please just get give us another answer at mail at generation.org, another question at mail at generations.org.
00:30:15.620 --> 00:30:24.340
Um but but I think we wanted to look at the bigger picture of what it is to be a dad and to be like Jesus in our homes.
00:30:24.740 --> 00:30:24.819
Right.
00:30:24.980 --> 00:30:25.620
Be careful.
00:30:25.700 --> 00:30:27.380
Don't implement too fast.
00:30:27.779 --> 00:30:37.059
It introduce the rod again, but do it sparingly at first, and be careful and remember that God is going to do the pruning.
00:30:37.220 --> 00:30:38.500
God will do it over time.
00:30:38.740 --> 00:30:40.900
Eleven years old is still a very young age.
00:30:41.539 --> 00:30:42.740
You've got a lot of time ahead of you.
00:30:42.980 --> 00:30:43.140
Good.
00:30:43.220 --> 00:30:44.580
Does anything else occur to you, Todd?
00:30:44.819 --> 00:30:58.660
Yeah, I again, as we said, you know, to the fathers out there, you know, it starts with our relationship with God, with our trusting, our faith in God, and being willing to, yeah, confess before our families and just come before them.
00:30:59.059 --> 00:31:03.860
Let's all start there and then engage our children and love them towards Christ.
00:31:04.180 --> 00:31:10.500
And grab Ted Tripp stuff, uh, Shepherding a Child's Heart, uh, Lupreolo and Heart of Anger.
00:31:10.660 --> 00:31:12.580
Uh, we've got a lot of that on the website.
00:31:12.660 --> 00:31:15.700
So, friends, um, there's some really good resources out there.
00:31:15.779 --> 00:31:18.580
Um, I'd also recommend Ken Sandy's Peacemaker stuff.
00:31:18.819 --> 00:31:25.299
I mean, the the relationship-oriented materials, be sure you've got four or five of the good ones in your library.
00:31:25.380 --> 00:31:27.140
You've gone over it with your wife.
00:31:27.299 --> 00:31:29.460
And and here's one more thing.
00:31:29.620 --> 00:31:33.299
Um, get resources from various sources.
00:31:33.700 --> 00:31:44.900
Uh one of the things I like to say is, you know, don't become the Ezoite or don't become the follower of the Pearlite, or that that can be that can be a ditch as well.
00:31:44.980 --> 00:31:49.700
So draw in from the Ted Trips, the Lou Priolos, the Ken Sandys.
00:31:49.860 --> 00:31:51.059
Uh, they've done some good stuff.
00:31:51.220 --> 00:31:53.700
And all that material available at generations.org.
00:31:53.779 --> 00:32:00.740
Uh, this is Kevin Swanson, Tom Strasser, Bill Roach, inviting you back again next time as we continue to lay down a vision for the next generation.
00:32:10.340 --> 00:32:13.220
This has been a production of the Generations Media Network.
00:32:13.380 --> 00:32:16.580
For more information, go to generations.org/slash media.