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This episode is made possible by listeners
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like you. Your support means everything. Thank you for tuning in.
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On this episode of the podcast,
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he meets a Jane Fuller who claims she is Hanan's daughter, right?
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Who apparently he has never met before. This is the very first time.
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You know what I'm saying? him supposedly know fuller you know right kind of
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work with him and he has never met his daughter right a big woman right and apparently,
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she seems to kind of have a thing for him you know cause you can see she kind
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of like yeah give him the wink you know what I'm saying you guys know the wink right yeah,
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yeah that happened you're not gonna want to miss this one.
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Prepare for warp speed as we embark on a voyage through the vast expanse of
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science fiction in movies and television series.
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Welcome to CodeFlix, where we analyze sci-fi and fantasy TV shows and movies
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through the lens of reality.
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I'm your host Andre Bonner and today I unpack the 13th floor,
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virtual realities, hidden truths, and the nature of existence.
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You know, I've been looking at the numbers lately and I have to say thank you.
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The downloads are growing, the listens are growing and people are clearly enjoying the podcast.
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But me notice one little problem.
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Plenty of one listening but not enough one subscribing.
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If you've been rocking with Codeflix every week, laughing, thinking and diving
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into these sci-fi worlds with me and you still haven't hit the subscribe or follow button?
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Mea wait. Mea beg you. Just take two seconds and subscribe.
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It might seem like a small thing, but it makes a huge difference.
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It tells the platforms that people are enjoying the show, helps more sci-fi
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fans discover the podcast, and it keeps CodeFlix growing.
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So, if you're listening right now, pause for just a second.
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Hit follow Hit subscribe Maybe even leave a rating while you're there Alright?
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Enough begging Now, back to the podcast.
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The first time I watched the 13th floor, I couldn't shake the feeling that I
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had seen parts of the story before.
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Virtual worlds that people can jack into, truths hidden in plain sight,
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and the unsettling idea that our very existence might not be what we think it is.
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It's the kind of movie that has you questioning reality all over again.
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The story begins with a murder but that's not only the beginning.
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What starts as a simple investigation slowly turns into a mystery that peels
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back layer after layer revealing why things are the way they are,
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and forcing the characters to confront truths they never imagined.
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Every character plays their part perfectly, moving the story forward as the
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lines between the real world and the artificial one becomes harder and harder to separate.
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The deeper we go, the more we begin to ask the same questions they do?
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What is real? How much of our lives is actually under our control?
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And what happens if everything we ever known is nothing more than an illusion?
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Released in the same year as The Matrix, it's easy to see why this film was overshadowed.
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But the 13th floor has carved out
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its own loyal following, becoming one of science fiction's hidden gems.
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By the time the credits roll, you'll be left staring at the screen,
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wondering if reality is really as solid as it seems.
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Welcome to the 13th floor.
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The Thirteenth Floor is a 1999 science fiction film written and directed by Joseph Rosnack,
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and produced by Roland Emmerich's Centropolis Entertainment.
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Loosely based on Daniel F. Goyer's 1964 novel, Simulacron III.
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It is a remake of Rainier Warner Fassbender,
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1973's miniseries World on a Wire.
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The film stars Craig Berkel, Gretchen Moll, Armin Mollier Stahl,
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Vincent D'Onofrio, and Dennis Haybert.
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In 2000, The 13th Floor was nominated for the Saturn Award for Best Science
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Fiction Film, but lost it to The Matrix.
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These are my personal insights and interpretations of The 13th Floor.
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Including some of my favorite moments, themes and characters.
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So right off the bat, again, I just have to say this is like copy and paste,
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you know, copy and paste, it is copy and paste certain things from this film
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to the Matrix and you got a film, right?
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Load full transcript
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It's not necessarily about one single person, though.
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We get a range of characters and things, which makes it a little bit different.
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And perhaps if it had gotten, you know, a bigger, you know, following,
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right, it would have beat out the matrix.
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We'd actually be talking about the 13th floor part do, part,
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you know, thrust, you know.
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So we could never tell, you know what I'm saying?
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But, you know, the timelines, you know, in reality has shed the light on it that, yes, you know,
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this film, I found it, you know, when I was looking for other films similar to The Matrix, right?
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And I saw it, and I don't know if I had watched it at the time when I saw it,
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or I just did end up doing something else.
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But when I was looking at some other episodes to do for this podcast,
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I realized I need to do an episode about the 13th floor.
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Because, you know, there is a cult following, right?
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Um it's my it's a one of those films that is in the same category as or close
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to the same category as dark city which we have done on this podcast wink wink
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you can go check it out right and you know.
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It's quite an interesting details you know and as we get into it you'll see
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why i am making you know these assessments so sit back and relax and enjoy this deep dive,
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So in 1999, Los Angeles, right, of course, some of us said it in the same year
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as the film released, right?
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Hannan Fuller, right, is this multibillion-dollar computer enterprise,
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you know, inventor, right?
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And he has created this virtual reality, simulation of 1937 Los Angeles.
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It is filled with some human beings who seem to be very unaware.
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They are computer programs in actual fact.
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So right there, you can see the parallels with the matrix right there.
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Right so now fuller him jacking and thing you know because you know we get,
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introduced to him and in the very first scene and we see him go into this hotel
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and thing and meeting up with this girl and thing you know i'm saying so we
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all say hey wait what i go on here so this old man you know oh long call him,
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quite they fire stick if you get what I
mean,
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so this um old man decide say I'm going to,
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go home now to him wife and when I'm reaching home to your wife,
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she says she smells cigarette smoke on him and the way she said you can see
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why this is not a one-time thing probably he has been doing this quite often
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see I wonder you know I'm saying,
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you know what's what's next he lies there for a while,
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and he doesn't seem to be falling asleep at least and probably guilt of iraqim
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and then we see his eyes in his eyes i start to do some weird stuff with the
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lights and stuff and then you know we get to say he,
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is in the simulation and he was in commodity simulation now right.
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And he's in this facility. You can see the servers behind him and everything and whatever.
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And he goes out and he goes to a bar, right?
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And in the bar, he sees this guy and stuff and thing.
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Oh, there's another bar scene that was in the simulation.
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I must mention that first, right? So in that bar scene, he meets up with this
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bartender at the bar, you know, when they leave or go home.
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And he gives him an envelope, right? And in that envelope, it would have been
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something for Douglas Hall, right?
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Douglas Hall is basically his second, right, at the company.
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So when he exits the simulation that's where we're at right and he goes to the
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bar and thing and he meets up with his bartender right and the bartender was
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watching him closely he said that he needed to use a telephone right.
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And he goes and he makes a call right and he starts to talk because it's voicemail
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right and he must say boy i may discover something something very interesting,
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and we won't figure the rest of the conversation but we're not given that opportunity
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at that point, the only thing we see next happening is that he's on the phone,
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the door opens and someone,
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apparently it seems like the very same person who he might try to get through
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upon the phone too because the way he react,
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the way he react is almost like oh I'm going to talk to you upon the phone I'm
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going to leave a message for you on the phone.
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But you don't hear him say anything you know he goes with this person and thing
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on we don't see the person's face all I know right,
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and let me say you know there's something like him on him ready for pan face
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and tell the man something and he gets stabbed with a knife and,
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Yeah, so he gets murdered and thing, you know?
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So right after that, we see the next scene. This man, Douglas Hall,
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as I mentioned before, he wakes up and he goes to his bathroom.
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And when he goes to his bathroom, he sees blood, right?
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On the sink and also on some towel, like, you know what I'm saying?
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Like somebody that tried to clean themselves from blood, you know?
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He becomes the primary suspect, right? Because, yeah, you know what I'm saying?
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The investigation is leading there, as well as the facts say when him wake up
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and find these blood garments and so on. You know what I'm saying? So...
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He's interrogated by the LAPD direct detective Larry McBain.
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And McBain, I would know him from the series 24. He was the president that Jack
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Bauer had to protect and stuff, you know.
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And yeah, 24 is a great series. You know, if you have a watch that,
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you know, please go check it out. You know what I've said?
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Yeah, we are plugging it in right here. so so he,
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meets a Jane Fuller who claim say she a Hanan's daughter right who apparently
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he has never met before this is the very first time you know I'm saying ignored him supposedly no,
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full I know right time I work with him and he has never met his,
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daughter right and big woman right and apparently,
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she seems to kind of have a thing for him you know because you can see she kind
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of like yeah give him the wink you know i'm saying you guys know the wink right yeah.
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Now all of course you know romance and thing and you know,
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now after that the same bartender um who would have witnessed when fuller went
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on the phone he in claim say MC,
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him Douglas a kill fuller so I'm no you know I'm saying so is almost like him
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on blackmail him and thing right,
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and in holding fuller and like him ready for beat him you know I'm saying and
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thing on fuller does you know
turn it back on him and run out you know I'm saying now,
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them catch up to Douglas and then decide, say, you know, them going to put him,
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you know, in jail for the time being because them have evidence,
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you know, this man come forward because, you know, I'm not getting the blackmail
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who I'm doing for blackmailing with.
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So, you know, tell him and things. So, he may end up guard jail and things. So, do you know come and.
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Give my alibi? is the man say so that's you know I'm saying you're wondering
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to yourself say why is it that shall go out to this land no babe protect him you know I'm saying so,
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him co-workout Jason who in actual fact is also the same actor,
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D'Onofrio right Vincent D'Onofrio we you know from Men in Black who I spoke
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on about in that episode and stuff.
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Masterful performance here, right? Because he plays a mild-mannered colleague to Douglas, right?
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And then in the simulation, he plays a bartender, right? So.
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So Douglas goes to Jason and him say, yo, I need your help because I need for
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jacking to the simulation because we don't say, you know, Fuller always love
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going to simulation, you know what I'm saying?
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So he goes in there to find out what happened to Fuller.
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So, you know, he goes in as this man named Ferguson, right? Who is this bank teller guy.
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And when he initially goes in he's seated in front of this lady in a bank right,
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and you know he has this confused look on his face and I'm like huh you know
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I'm saying like you know but he you know he.
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Gets himself out of there you know I'm saying even the manager at the bank is
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like Ferguson you need to go home and thing
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if at one point him like master team say you need a smoke you need a smoke or
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something and he's like no I'm gonna smoke and I say since when you know,
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so he was very out of character for the guy who would be,
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the body that he is possessing right so he goes to.
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Find out, you know, about Fuller's, you know, retrace some of the steps then we can find him.
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How should I go meet up with the guy, the guy who Fuller would have been inhabiting, right?
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And, you know, the guy is like, you know, he's totally different from Fuller, right?
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He doesn't really know anything and stuff. So he goes to the very same hotel
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where the bar is, that same bartender that I mentioned.
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Played by the no throw he would have gotten a note from fuller but now is like
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he has never heard of anybody and you know i'm saying,
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if not have anything for from him or not like that because him ask him and he's
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like yo you know i don't know nothing about it and thing.
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One of the things that was evil quite you know crazy was the fact that this
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is the first time that douglas finds out that that Fuller has been using the
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simulation as the playground, right?
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He was, you know, jacking in and going to basically, you know,
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see these young girls and stuff and thing, you know, all of that.
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So that's when he find out all of that and stuff. So, yeah, there's a time limit
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that they had set, you know, I'm telling myself I set it for 120 minutes,
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right? which is actually about two hours and stuff so.
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When he leaves we see in the simulation right where,
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the counterpart you know not recognizing where he is right i try to leave and
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the bartender is like you know calling him on thing because him leave the hat when when i wear right,
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and you may even get him for drinks so But,
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basically those two, now,
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because the bartender realized he might act strange him, was very intrigued
00:20:29.061 --> 00:20:33.481
for some reason in Ferguson's story. You know what I'm saying?
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Because now he might ask him, you know, something. And he's like,
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no, I'm going to name him so I'm going to name Ferguson.
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You know what I'm saying? I'm going to name Douglas. I'm going to name Ferguson. All right. so,
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so little after that now Douglas enter back the simulation right and he will go back for,
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visit back Ashton right and this time he will come with the guy who would have been,
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Fuller's counterpart right and you know the guy I say you know because what
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happens is that when they leave the simulation, right, they leave memories,
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in the counterparts, right? So.
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Basically, that memory has now become a part of the person, right?
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So, even the counterpart now, I
realize, say, they have been to the hotel before.
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They know these girls. They know so many different things.
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So, he must actually remember that, you know, he gave the letter to the bartender.
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So, when Douglas goes after him, of course, he realized now,
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say, that's Ashton, the bartender.
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He realized say you know Douglas are come off time so he,
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you know quickly take himself out but Douglas catches up to him only for him
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to pull a gun on Douglas right and,
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he basically I say yo my read the letter my read the stinking letter and I realized
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say this world is not what it is you know I'm saying he basically tell him say
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yo it's a artificial creation man say yo.
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Me go somewhere where me never really thought of going.
00:22:23.612 --> 00:22:27.178
Right. I'm just driving. I'm a car. Just continue driving, driving,
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driving. And when I reach out there, I was amazed at what I saw.
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And then, you know, they're showing you as he's talking, you know,
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him driving out to the place and, you know, him coming out of the car.
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We don't get to see what he's looking at, you know, but we know that for some
00:22:43.808 --> 00:22:49.640
reason, this shattered his entire reality for him. You know what I'm saying?
00:22:50.403 --> 00:22:56.115
Because this man, I talk about the fact that he doesn't know what's real and thing and whatever.
00:22:56.417 --> 00:23:02.854
And he starts to shoot Douglas, right? Douglas gets a couple shots in his foot and thing.
00:23:03.418 --> 00:23:09.118
Now, Douglas, when Douglas jacked in this time around, he was alone.
00:23:09.458 --> 00:23:14.838
You know Jason wasn't there for a guide or for what you are going on and for
00:23:14.838 --> 00:23:20.730
set the time limit on him in the simulation. So essentially he was basically
00:23:20.730 --> 00:23:22.759
stuck in there by himself.
00:23:23.334 --> 00:23:30.125
So you know Ashton had run him down and thing you know he had hop on him leg and thing and whatever.
00:23:30.787 --> 00:23:34.241
The two of them end up in this area where there's this pool.
00:23:34.775 --> 00:23:39.477
And you know them tussle and tussle and they end up in a pool and thing and
00:23:39.889 --> 00:23:47.870
Ashton had drone him right had drone Douglas in a water and.
00:23:49.258 --> 00:23:53.882
Just at that moment before he completely goes blank,
00:23:54.977 --> 00:23:58.553
He gets pulled out of the simulation, luckily, by Jason.
00:23:59.229 --> 00:24:04.434
Yeah. And the thing is that, you know, it's kind of visceral because you get
00:24:04.434 --> 00:24:06.764
ripped from that reality into the other reality.
00:24:06.764 --> 00:24:11.134
And, you know what I'm saying? It's the same face that you see because Jason
00:24:11.134 --> 00:24:15.784
and Ashton, you know, are played by the same actor.
00:24:15.784 --> 00:24:20.411
So, you know, the whole thing was to just kind of give that feeling that,
00:24:20.637 --> 00:24:22.564
hey, him couldn't, you know what I'm saying?
00:24:22.564 --> 00:24:26.394
I'm not realize it much at it come with a simulation is almost I can feel like
00:24:26.394 --> 00:24:30.796
I'm still laying there and you know Ashton we realize it really I say oh,
00:24:31.133 --> 00:24:35.538
it's not Ashton a adjacent, you know guys in boxing, you know,
00:24:36.200 --> 00:24:42.014
In boxing and you know, just he's like, you know, you're a mile man at save that.
00:24:42.014 --> 00:24:44.925
Oh, why you box me?
00:24:45.482 --> 00:24:52.084
So is you know it has changed the way how you look at things and the fact say
00:24:52.390 --> 00:24:58.077
all of these things happen they would have foreshadowed what would come next.
00:25:02.019 --> 00:25:07.632
We'll be right back after these messages they told us this was reality.
00:25:08.700 --> 00:25:11.840
They told us to stop asking questions.
00:25:17.569 --> 00:25:24.794
Now, Matt Behan, the detective, I talked to Hall and I told him,
00:25:24.794 --> 00:25:29.514
listen, you know, say this woman claims she's named Jane Fuller,
00:25:29.514 --> 00:25:30.738
you know, she doesn't exist.
00:25:31.116 --> 00:25:35.760
We can't find anything. We contacted the authorities in France.
00:25:36.061 --> 00:25:39.295
You know, she doesn't exist. Right?
00:25:40.078 --> 00:25:46.556
So, she possibly ain't real. Or, you know what I'm saying? Something about her is just weird.
00:25:47.639 --> 00:25:53.852
Because when I'm checking even through her background, I've never had a daughter. So, I'll.
00:25:55.585 --> 00:25:57.685
He didn't really have much problems
00:25:57.685 --> 00:26:04.712
because he'd find her quickly because he'd go to this mart, right?
00:26:04.816 --> 00:26:10.105
And I'd check out some items and when he'd look, he'd see the counterpart, right?
00:26:10.565 --> 00:26:15.445
It's not her at the time, but, you know, he'd stay up on her and the young lady's
00:26:15.445 --> 00:26:19.475
like, you know, why you stay up on me? Take a picture. It would last longer,
00:26:19.475 --> 00:26:20.144
you know what I'm saying?
00:26:20.881 --> 00:26:25.215
And he's like, you know, I, you know what I'm saying? It's one of them things,
00:26:25.215 --> 00:26:26.834
you know? and he might try to explain himself.
00:26:27.930 --> 00:26:33.085
So, I'll know, I feel a thing to himself, this kind of shatter him more,
00:26:33.085 --> 00:26:37.365
because he might say, wait, something, all right, why is that happening?
00:26:37.365 --> 00:26:40.797
You know what I'm saying? Why should he be behaving a way there if I see?
00:26:41.665 -->
00:26:46.125
So, he decides to perform a little experiment.
00:26:47.126 --> 00:26:54.449
Right? So, he might say, he might recognize that fool left that message for him.
00:26:54.710 --> 00:26:59.485
Why would Fuller leave that message for him in a dissimulation him don't know
00:26:59.485 --> 00:27:03.514
about dissimulation I'm no one said dissimulation a real because I detour him to work on it,
00:27:04.677 --> 00:27:12.209
Only fit him go and travel drive just I co Ashton drove and,
00:27:13.916 --> 00:27:21.602
He discovers a point in the world where it becomes a crude wireframe model.
00:27:24.326 --> 00:27:30.238
So Douglas thought that the reality that he inhabited was real.
00:27:31.016 --> 00:27:35.314
Only if he recognized now, say, it's a simulation.
00:27:36.252 --> 00:27:42.225
He himself is a part of this simulation. He himself is a program in this simulation.
00:27:43.694 --> 00:27:50.024
So, at the same time, when I discover that now, Jane would have returned to
00:27:50.024 --> 00:27:52.034
the counterpart, right?
00:27:52.374 --> 00:27:55.614
You know, the flashy eye thing again, right? And she returned.
00:27:55.817 --> 00:28:00.064
So, now we are confirmed by that. Yeah, she actually exists,
00:28:00.064 --> 00:28:06.841
but she's not in that simulation, right? She come from the world above, right?
00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:11.844
So, she tries to explain the truth to her.
00:28:11.844 --> 00:28:17.539
You know just call about just say yo you know many for talk to you and thing on Riri.
00:28:18.970 --> 00:28:24.994
And the same time when they meet up at a place you know in the matrix a parallel
00:28:24.994 --> 00:28:30.864
to the matrix here when Neo faces off with the agent Smith and there is lightning
00:28:30.864 --> 00:28:32.683
and thunder and rain and everything,
00:28:34.031 --> 00:28:37.508
it's a similar you know motif again here,
00:28:38.289 --> 00:28:41.454
of course he's indoors so he's not getting wet so I'm indoors and they might
00:28:41.454 --> 00:28:46.324
look out the window just looking at the world like none of this is not real,
00:28:46.853 --> 00:28:52.518
right none of this is not real it's like yo it's an existential crisis right,
00:28:53.792 --> 00:29:02.446
so she has revealed the truth to him that this world is one of thousands of virtual worlds right,
00:29:03.132 --> 00:29:08.984
but these are the only one in which the occupants then ever developed a virtual
00:29:08.984 --> 00:29:12.216
world of their own right and,
00:29:13.186 --> 00:29:20.791
she lives in the real world right the world outside of the 1990s Los Angeles simulation yeah.
00:29:22.620 --> 00:29:29.545
So, after the Fuller's death here, she entered the virtual,
00:29:30.203 --> 00:29:38.427
right, and assumed the data role and thing for gain control of the company,
00:29:38.555 --> 00:29:43.782
right, so that she can shut down the simulated 1939-37,
00:29:44.926 --> 00:29:45.878
reality, right?
00:29:46.986 --> 00:29:53.030
But she get a wrinkling of the plan. The plan is, the plan has been wrinkled
00:29:53.030 --> 00:30:00.165
by all being made the company here, right? So.
00:30:01.707 --> 00:30:07.827
She also reveals now that Douglas would have been modeled after her David,
00:30:07.827 --> 00:30:09.618
a real-world husband, right?
00:30:10.383 --> 00:30:14.575
And when she come to the simulation, she'd fall in love with Hal.
00:30:15.328 --> 00:30:20.967
Yeah. David are the one where they commit the murders, right?
00:30:20.967 --> 00:30:26.613
Because Douglas starts to ask, you know, so who killed Hal, right?
00:30:27.369 --> 00:30:30.939
If it wasn't so-and-so, because she eliminates all of the suspects then.
00:30:31.598 --> 00:30:41.077
So it's like it was you know your real world counterpart david my husband so
00:30:41.077 --> 00:30:45.217
she says that you know he has been,
00:30:46.384 --> 00:30:50.807
broken basically from the first time him start use these things you know it
00:30:50.807 --> 00:30:55.789
is almost like him using the virtual,
00:30:56.595 --> 00:31:02.131
you know mess him up bad and make him into the monster that he is so,
00:31:03.211 --> 00:31:13.767
him believe himself to be this deity right and that he controls certain things so him,
00:31:14.702 --> 00:31:19.202
come on him do as him like him kill people as him like and whatever,
00:31:20.294 --> 00:31:24.938
and it is mostly due to prolonged usage.
00:31:25.141 --> 00:31:28.792
So he's very obsessed and addicted to this thing. Right?
00:31:30.526 --> 00:31:31.066
Now...
00:31:34.341 --> 00:31:37.151
Back at the 13th floor right,
00:31:39.484 --> 00:31:44.701
I said 30 floor you know roll credits you know but the 30th floor you know is
00:31:44.701 --> 00:31:47.553
in the building right that's where they have the simulation so,
00:31:48.563 --> 00:31:54.681
Whitney that's Jason Whitney right the mild-mannered colleague he decides say
00:31:54.681 --> 00:31:57.435
he might go into the simulation now,
00:31:58.514 --> 00:32:02.785
Douglas he don't want him and I said don't do it you don't want going there,
00:32:03.528 --> 00:32:07.341
but him decides to him curious enough for going there so when I'm going there
00:32:07.341 --> 00:32:11.741
and find himself in a day in a one car in a demigra traffic almost,
00:32:13.301 --> 00:32:19.551
run off run off a road still so because he runs off of the road you know a cop.
00:32:21.236 --> 00:32:27.471
Ask him for his papers he finds a gun in the golf comp car apartment and he's
00:32:27.471 --> 00:32:31.331
amazed by that but you know I'm not let up because you know really want a cup
00:32:31.331 --> 00:32:35.700
of trouble you know he wanted to continue to go on exploring right.
00:32:37.258 --> 00:32:43.412
As the cop sees the papers and is, you know, satisfied with what he sees, he's about to walk away.
00:32:44.178 --> 00:32:47.748
He hears a thump thump in the back of the trunk.
00:32:48.930 --> 00:32:52.475
Yeah. So the cop is like,
sir, get out of the car. You know,
00:32:52.932 --> 00:32:57.710
now cop naga make you go anywhere when you hear thump thump in the back of the vehicle. Right.
00:32:58.807 --> 00:33:04.938
So, of course, he starts to be like, oh my, you know, to himself,
00:33:04.938 --> 00:33:08.568
like, something going on. I came and heard the tub tub and the noise,
00:33:08.701 --> 00:33:11.940
you know, like a person and noise, it's muffled.
00:33:12.693 --> 00:33:19.648
And he opens it and only to see Ferguson. But to him, because him look like
00:33:19.648 --> 00:33:24.820
Douglas, he's like, Douglas, you know, and thing. And the officer's like, back up, back up.
00:33:25.469 --> 00:33:28.402
And thing, you know what I'm saying? And he'm like, you know,
00:33:29.300 --> 00:33:36.011
it's like him can't fathom what really happened. Why would his counterpart be doing this?
00:33:36.651 --> 00:33:45.120
And he steps back off the path, the side of the road, into a vehicle that is
00:33:45.358 --> 00:33:49.164
coming and it hit him, kills him instantly.
00:33:49.978 --> 00:33:55.188
But what is interesting is what happens next. Because when he gets killed in
00:33:55.188 --> 00:34:00.493
the simulation, apparently, Ashton's consciousness crosses over instead of his.
00:34:00.951 --> 00:34:04.758
Because he connected into it and Ashton probably, I don't know,
00:34:04.758 --> 00:34:09.698
probably they put Ashton into something and I'm just thinking about the technicalities
00:34:09.698 --> 00:34:14.435
of it, you know, how it could possibly work, right? Because this is all fictional, right?
00:34:15.446 --> 00:34:22.608
So it's possible that it was that this consciousness was floating and then with
00:34:22.608 --> 00:34:28.979
the body not having any consciousness to come back to other than that one, right?
00:34:29.363 --> 00:34:33.403
Because the consciousness get killed Jason's consciousness got killed in there.
00:34:33.763 --> 00:34:39.813
Ashton wakes up in what he thinks is reality, right? Now he,
00:34:41.345 --> 00:34:50.785
Of course, it's awkward for the first few seconds because he comes out and he attempts to come out of.
00:34:53.125 --> 00:34:57.655
The area where the machines are, right? But you need an ID card,
00:34:57.655 --> 00:35:01.471
which he has on, and you need to know how to use that ID card, right?
00:35:02.098 --> 00:35:05.255
And he doesn't know anything about this thing because, you know,
00:35:05.255 --> 00:35:09.845
he apparently has been living in his 1937, right?
00:35:09.845 --> 00:35:15.181
So, yeah, that red alarm bells, you know what I'm saying, rings rather,
00:35:15.414 --> 00:35:23.581
alarm bells, because security realized he might act strange and called Douglas, right?
00:35:24.063 --> 00:35:32.735
Now, Douglas apparently was romancing Jane Fuller, and he gets the call and
00:35:32.735 --> 00:35:36.694
thing to come to the office because Jason acts strange.
00:35:36.937 --> 00:35:42.645
But at the moment when answer
the phone is the same moment that Ashton finds
00:35:42.645 --> 00:35:49.000
out or figures out how to use the ID you know because the ID go up against the thing and yeah.
00:35:50.324 --> 00:35:56.585
I just had to mention that little scene right there anyways he goes to to there
00:35:56.585 --> 00:36:03.386
and today the company and him on Ashton attack and him get if we realize,
00:36:04.483 --> 00:36:07.564
say, it's not Jason you want to talk to anymore.
00:36:08.220 --> 00:36:11.960
So, him's like, you know, you have to know the truth.
00:36:12.285 --> 00:36:16.185
You know what I'm saying? You have to know the truth. Say, your reality was
00:36:16.185 --> 00:36:21.195
fake, but also this one is fake. And I was like, what? What you talk about?
00:36:21.195 --> 00:36:23.878
That no make no sense. You know what I'm saying?
00:36:24.955 --> 00:36:28.665
So, Ashland say, yo, I want you to take me to where I was born.
00:36:28.665 --> 00:36:33.165
You know what I'm saying? as a computer simulation in Karim go to the PlayStation
00:36:33.165 --> 00:36:37.749
team. While he was going there, in the elevator, right...
00:36:39.437 --> 00:36:48.807
He, that is Douglas, gets transformed into David, right?
00:36:49.687 --> 00:36:59.637
So when he threw him where he was born and Ashton is awed by it all,
00:36:59.637 --> 00:37:01.280
you know, he's amazed and thing.
00:37:02.421 --> 00:37:10.297
He took the gun, right? Oh, I forgot to mention that when Ashton took the gun
00:37:10.297 --> 00:37:11.791
off a security guard, right?
00:37:12.683 --> 00:37:21.297
So that gun now was, you know, it was placed near to where David was and David
00:37:21.297 --> 00:37:23.608
took it up and shoots him, right?
00:37:24.454 --> 00:37:30.847
Of course, David isn't new to this thing, so he does it, you know, more than once, right?
00:37:31.613 --> 00:37:33.558
That's the thing he does, right?
00:37:35.169 --> 00:37:42.029
Now, Matt Bain seemed to have gotten wind of the nature of his reality through Jane.
00:37:42.029 --> 00:37:51.429
Jane called. This was little after Douglas leaves to go to the company, right?
00:37:51.592 --> 00:37:55.869
She called and she tell him, say, for come because, you know what I'm saying,
00:37:55.869 --> 00:37:57.805
he might go try to kill her and thing, right?
00:37:59.146 --> 00:38:05.316
So of course David goes to Douglas' home,
00:38:06.751 --> 00:38:14.879
but Jane not really realized yet him is no longer Douglas so what lets up on
00:38:14.879 --> 00:38:17.315
it is when David says you know.
00:38:19.204 --> 00:38:24.033
He hugged her and you know what I'm saying and he must say something to her,
00:38:24.619 --> 00:38:26.719
well you know gives up the whole
00:38:26.719 --> 00:38:31.648
thing And she now is very terrified looking, you know, and he's like,
00:38:32.628 --> 00:38:37.469
we can't see why you like this man, because he's pretty handsome,
00:38:37.469 --> 00:38:42.569
you know, almost kind of, you know, referencing himself because he does the
00:38:42.569 --> 00:38:44.482
same look and all of that.
00:38:46.170 --> 00:38:51.650
Tell him say you know no she i use him just like how him use the other people
00:38:51.650 --> 00:38:57.692
them and kill them and all of that right so he tries to rape and murder her,
00:38:58.864 --> 00:39:05.222
she you know hits him with something and she she runs out of the apartment you know,
00:39:05.971 --> 00:39:10.910
she's wearing a towel right that's all she's wearing i'd have to be in that
00:39:10.910 --> 00:39:14.750
part you know i'm saying like yeah you know i'm saying anyway she She runs out
00:39:14.750 --> 00:39:17.430
of the apartment and, you know,
00:39:18.365 --> 00:39:23.100
gets on the elevator just in time for him almost to reach her.
00:39:23.100 --> 00:39:27.170
And she bites him on his fingers and him back up.
00:39:28.302 --> 00:39:34.442
Yeah, she gets down to the ground floor. But apparently the whole place lock up.
00:39:35.519 --> 00:39:39.467
So, yeah, he done planned out. He already said he trapped her in there.
00:39:40.030 --> 00:39:43.288
So he takes out the gun and,
00:39:44.035 --> 00:39:51.070
is ready to take her out and thing but yeah detective matt bain shows up just
00:39:51.070 --> 00:39:58.736
in time and kills david right and of course you know the next part going to be now he's gonna wake up,
00:39:59.461 --> 00:40:01.560
in the real world.
00:40:03.163 --> 00:40:15.606
As Douglas so I'll wake up and him notice say a newspaper say 2024 yeah,
00:40:17.109 --> 00:40:22.532
and he has on this thing on his head like a you know like a little.
00:40:24.520 --> 00:40:29.900
Comes like a headset kind of thing yeah and when him take it off you know you
00:40:29.900 --> 00:40:33.374
can hear it make that little sound like it a disconnect and thing right,
00:40:34.447 --> 00:40:41.676
now him walk out to where there seems to be like this living room area and thing and he finds jane,
00:40:42.460 --> 00:40:50.135
right who has now awoken from her simulation as well from from the simulation as well and,
00:40:51.220 --> 00:40:58.749
she takes him and shows him that he's in you know real real reality,
00:40:59.864 --> 00:41:00.485
right,
00:41:02.085 --> 00:41:11.330
and we see fuller right who is alive and well but this fuller is the actual
00:41:11.330 --> 00:41:15.193
fuller from the reality act as they said and this is her father.
00:41:16.872 --> 00:41:22.462
Anon fuller which the fuller was made was muddled after you know,
00:41:24.083 --> 00:41:31.620
so chatel um how that you know the simulation and thing and that is when the
00:41:31.920 --> 00:41:34.737
film ends there you know and,
00:41:36.040 --> 00:41:43.522
then we notice that it collapses into a thin line as if you know when you're,
00:41:44.056 --> 00:41:49.100
yeah turn off our monitor screen you know they you know our tv and you know
00:41:49.100 --> 00:41:54.970
them screen the all-time screen with the crt and the line does at
the last thing
00:41:54.970 --> 00:41:58.435
we see come up on this yeah it those collapses and then,
00:41:59.068 --> 00:42:02.801
i hope i'm describing this clearly let me know if,
00:42:03.457 --> 00:42:10.551
i did in the comments and if you enjoyed this deep dive into this classic.
00:42:22.468 --> 00:42:27.797
So the 13th floor is built around a lot of layered realities, right?
00:42:28.862 --> 00:42:37.178
And most of these unresolved mysteries come from the fact that the film refuses
00:42:37.178 --> 00:42:40.987
to pin down a single true, true world.
00:42:42.230 --> 00:42:49.288
So the core question is not just who killed Fuller, but which level of this
00:42:49.288 --> 00:42:51.956
reality actually counts as real.
00:42:52.815 --> 00:42:58.822
These are some theories and unresolved mysteries and some plot points.
00:42:59.774 --> 00:43:01.729
So the layers of reality.
00:43:03.023 --> 00:43:09.381
The clearest theory, right, is that we have three layers, right?
00:43:10.020 --> 00:43:17.891
It is the 1937 simulation, right, inside a 1999 simulation, inside a higher
00:43:18.106 --> 00:43:21.653
real world around the 2020s.
00:43:22.974 --> 00:43:28.628
Now each layer is treated as ordinary life by the people who live inside it right unless,
00:43:29.768 --> 00:43:37.913
until something breaks that illusion and a more unsettling theory is that the real world,
00:43:38.615 --> 00:43:45.658
2020's world may also be simulated right or at least it is not guaranteed as
00:43:45.658 --> 00:43:48.102
the final layer because the film,
00:43:48.971 --> 00:43:54.480
set it up in a way where it suggests it could be an infinite regress, right?
00:43:55.168 --> 00:44:03.578
So whenever someone discovers that the world is fake, they may simply be stepping
00:44:03.578 --> 00:44:06.272
into another simulation. Yeah?
00:44:10.135 --> 00:44:17.565
Number two is Douglass's identity. It's a major mystery of whether Douglas Hall
00:44:17.565 --> 00:44:19.632
is ever truly himself, right?
00:44:20.137 --> 00:44:27.254
One theory is that Douglass is originally a simulated character and he becomes self-aware, right?
00:44:27.889 --> 00:44:32.245
And then he ends up inhabiting the body of his creator, David,
00:44:32.245 --> 00:44:33.514
right? In the higher level.
00:44:34.593 --> 00:44:40.038
Now, another theory is that Douglass is also a hybrid, right?
00:44:40.462 --> 00:44:46.715
Him is part of the original person as Jane because Jane was like you know David
00:44:46.715 --> 00:44:51.717
was like you when I met him you know I'm saying nice and compassionate and pure,
00:44:52.541 --> 00:44:55.857
and he's part code which makes him,
00:44:56.755 --> 00:45:01.966
you know his final survival in the real world you know very very ironic.
00:45:04.855 --> 00:45:10.615
Now him escape one simulation only to become the person whose body is used to
00:45:10.615 --> 00:45:18.097
exist there, you know, and this blurs the line between a victim and the replacement, right?
00:45:20.020 --> 00:45:23.983
Killed Fuller? Obviously it was David who killed Fuller.
00:45:24.831 --> 00:45:30.910
So the murder of Hanan Fuller is the plot surface mystery but the film makes
00:45:30.910 --> 00:45:35.222
it clear that the answer depends on which layer you're in.
00:45:36.255 --> 00:45:42.243
One theory is that David, the 2020s user controlling Douglas, him killed Fuller right,
00:45:43.660 --> 00:45:49.856
in the 1990 layer to stop him from exposing the simulation,
00:45:50.413 --> 00:45:55.649
my second theory is that the murder is less important than what it reveals that,
00:45:56.096 --> 00:45:59.103
fuller's discovery that the simulated people,
00:45:59.922 --> 00:46:04.095
can become self-aware these are living agents yeah,
00:46:04.925 --> 00:46:10.068
living ai if you want me to give you that you know analogy right,
00:46:10.979 --> 00:46:17.760
the insight is a real trick because it implies the simulations them no longer,
00:46:18.320 --> 00:46:22.091
just using tools but them can emerge in,
00:46:23.201 --> 00:46:26.249
into their own right you know I'm saying.
00:46:27.918 --> 00:46:32.968
Jane slash Natasha right so Jane Fuller's identity is another unresolved point because,
00:46:33.959 --> 00:46:38.506
there is one theory that is she's genuinely fuller's daughter from the 2020s
00:46:38.941 --> 00:46:44.021
right using the 1990 simulation to investigate his death and protect the technology,
00:46:44.926 --> 00:46:46.836
another darker theory is that,
00:46:47.759 --> 00:46:53.910
she's actually natasha a woman from the 1990s there who had taken over jane's
00:46:53.910 --> 00:46:59.288
identity in the higher world to gain control of the simulation system, right?
00:46:59.857 --> 00:47:07.612
And this fits with the whole film's theory that identity is transferable and can be weaponized.
00:47:09.481 --> 00:47:11.008
That's a far-off one, but yeah.
00:47:13.484 --> 00:47:17.109
So, the nature of consciousness is another one.
00:47:17.754 --> 00:47:23.400
The film leaves open whether simulated people have real consciousness.
00:47:24.090 --> 00:47:29.127
And one theory is that the self-awareness is an emerging property.
00:47:30.199 --> 00:47:36.704
Once a simulation is complex enough, it inhabitants them generally feel and
00:47:36.704 --> 00:47:40.305
think even if they become cord.
00:47:41.622 --> 00:47:46.539
Another theory is that the story is warning about playing God.
00:47:47.226 --> 00:47:52.532
If simulated beings can become conscious then the creators are not just engineers,
00:47:53.118 --> 00:47:55.852
but jailers of entire populations,
00:47:56.590 --> 00:48:05.256
which makes Douglas and Jane their happy endings seem very very morally complicated.
00:48:06.896 --> 00:48:12.161
The quote-unquote real world's morality,
00:48:13.108 --> 00:48:18.864
at the top layer right it is ethically murky right because one theory is that
00:48:18.864 --> 00:48:22.621
the 2020 society is a decadent and,
00:48:23.934 --> 00:48:30.724
them use simulation as playgrounds right the fact said jane mentioned said there
00:48:30.724 --> 00:48:35.258
are thousands of these worlds and stuff and this one is the only one that became
00:48:35.670 --> 00:48:38.857
self-aware through using simulation, right?
00:48:39.654 --> 00:48:47.433
And this explains why David treats Douglas's life and others as disposable, right?
00:48:49.521 --> 00:48:55.501
Broader theory is that the film is a critique on escapism itself,
00:48:56.058 --> 00:49:02.761
every layer is a refuge from something grief guilt and responsibility and the
00:49:02.761 --> 00:49:09.155
technology enabling people to live out them fantasies without consequences right.
00:49:10.477 --> 00:49:18.241
And at the end of this those fantasies will start killing across layers and
00:49:18.241 --> 00:49:24.386
of course I have to talk about the ending the final shot of Douglas and Jane,
00:49:25.408 --> 00:49:32.721
looking out as Jane tries to explain to Douglas something and we see that you
00:49:32.721 --> 00:49:36.546
know click you know glitch kind of effect with the,
00:49:37.608 --> 00:49:43.738
you know as if somebody just turn off a TV you know I'm saying or a monitor or something yeah so,
00:49:44.593 --> 00:49:50.011
that suggests that there is somehow this real world that we are witnessing is
00:49:50.011 --> 00:49:57.932
real enough to them and maybe it's just another level of control similar to the matrix,
00:49:58.792 --> 00:50:09.112
and those are my theories what are your theories share your favorite theories moments characters,
00:50:10.121 --> 00:50:16.191
favorite anything if you liked how I sing in the last episode or if you prefer
00:50:16.191 --> 00:50:21.389
that I not do these singing things you let me know down in the comments.
00:50:31.894 --> 00:50:38.814
In this episode, we looked at the 13th floor, virtual realities,
00:50:39.154 --> 00:50:43.044
hidden truths, and the nature of existence.
00:50:43.932 --> 00:50:46.968
And when I started this episode, I,
00:50:47.943 --> 00:50:54.784
completely went haywire, especially because of the fact that there is so much
00:50:54.784 --> 00:51:01.099
I could pack into this episode, but I didn't want it to be as long as the others.
00:51:01.365 --> 00:51:06.749
So I try to keep it as slim as possible. But I have to mention that,
00:51:07.716 --> 00:51:15.050
you know, these podcast episodes have been quite interesting to do.
00:51:15.717 --> 00:51:17.563
It's quite a journey.
00:51:18.283 --> 00:51:21.909
And I'm here continuing on this journey.
00:51:22.966 --> 00:51:27.546
And as usual, I have to just appeal for more support.
00:51:28.558 --> 00:51:36.739
It pushes this podcast higher It gets it out to all the ears that can listen Right,
00:51:37.613 --> 00:51:42.784
Because I'm sure that you watch these films with me And the TV shows And you
00:51:42.784 --> 00:51:44.144
might come back and you say Hey.
00:51:45.647 --> 00:51:53.084
What Andre say about this I completely support Or I don't I understand If you
00:51:53.084 --> 00:51:57.994
don't support it You don't have to agree with me on everything Right And we
00:51:57.994 --> 00:52:00.394
can have the discourse, you know, why you don't agree.
00:52:00.394 --> 00:52:06.434
So at least, you know, I know and I can just drop in something on the other
00:52:06.434 --> 00:52:08.472
episodes or I can do an episode.
00:52:08.867 --> 00:52:14.074
I can say, hey, this is what it is. So you can even give me ideas as to how
00:52:14.422 --> 00:52:18.288
I can do these things. Right.
00:52:20.334 --> 00:52:29.181
So again, thank you and enjoy the rest of your day. And that brings us to the end of this episode.
00:52:29.541 --> 00:52:35.933
Our voyage through the universe of sci-fi television continues and the next destination.
00:53:28.861 --> 00:53:34.618
This content is CAN credentialed, which means you can report instances of harassment, abuse,
00:53:34.985 --> 00:53:44.975
or other harm on their hotline at 617-249-4255 or on their website at creatoraccountabilitynetwork.org.