رونوشت کامل Alan and Autumn Ray - Learning To Be Married

was advertised at the local auditorium at the college. 29 00:02:37,530 --> 00:02:43,770 And it wasn't listed as a Christian seminar, so Alan and I signed up because of course we want to be good parents. 30 00:02:44,150 --> 00:02:50,570 At the beginning of the seminar, the leader said, I'd like to know how many committed Christians there are in the audience. 31 00:02:50,830 --> 00:02:53,290 So if you're a committed Christian, would you stand up? 32 00:02:53,470 --> 00:03:02,630 And I sat in my seat and watched people pop up all around me, and I said to myself, if he had said, how many Christians are there, I would have stood up. 33 00:03:02,730 --> 00:03:04,310 I mean, I was born in America. 34 00:03:04,470 --> 00:03:07,370 I was raised in a sort of Christian home. 35 00:03:07,610 --> 00:03:08,830 I must be a Christian. 36 00:03:08,950 --> 00:03:13,270 But he used the word committed Christian, and I knew I wasn't one of those. 37 00:03:13,650 --> 00:03:16,570 So that was the first question in my journey. 38 00:03:16,810 --> 00:03:19,270 What does the word committed Christian mean? 39 00:03:19,730 --> 00:03:21,010 And that began the whole thing. 40 00:03:21,510 --> 00:03:29,050 And I might just add that that speaker was James Dobson, and that was the very first time that he started filming the Focus on the Family series. 41 00:03:29,690 --> 00:03:30,870 That's how old we are. 42 00:03:32,970 --> 00:03:43,590 It's interesting when we go back to those early times, because again, there is this myth that you give your life to the Lord, and everything is just wonderful after that. 43 00:03:43,670 --> 00:03:58,430 And yet, that obviously wasn't your experience, and it's not for lack of trying, because the very fact that you chose to go to a parenting course and then later chose to go along to some marriage courses shows that you wanted this to work. 44 00:03:58,690 --> 00:04:00,130 You wanted this to happen. 45 00:04:00,590 --> 00:04:05,150 You weren't just walking away from things, and yet it didn't solve all the problems, did it? 46 00:04:05,150 --> 00:04:06,690 No, it certainly didn't. 47 00:04:06,950 --> 00:04:12,710 There's an analogy that explains that, that we sort of stumbled on the Lord gave to us as we were working with couples. 48 00:04:13,330 --> 00:04:19,269 That you and your spouse are born onto different teams, that's your family, and you learn how to do life in that family. 49 00:04:19,589 --> 00:04:25,150 You learn how to communicate, you learn what the norms are, the expectations, how they handle conflict, all that stuff. 50 00:04:25,530 --> 00:04:27,310 So that becomes your playbook for life. 51 00:04:27,690 --> 00:04:38,390 You get married, you create a new team, you bring your old playbook, as does your spouse, and pretty soon you're not working together, you're misunderstanding one another, and conflicts start. 52 00:04:38,950 --> 00:04:47,370 And as we use that analogy with people, we found that it really resonated, and it certainly was our experience that we definitely had different playbooks and never realized it. 53 00:04:47,770 --> 00:04:58,270 Oh yeah, and I will caveat on not getting everything right the minute you become a Christian, because I laughingly say to people, we had a terrible marriage. 54 00:04:58,550 --> 00:05:06,370 He was in the Air Force and I was home, and we were Christians sitting in the pew every week reading our Bible, going to Bible studies, and we couldn't get it together. 55 00:05:06,850 --> 00:05:09,570 We went to everything that had the word marriage on it. 56 00:05:09,650 --> 00:05:10,870 Usually we went to a few things. 57 00:05:11,030 --> 00:05:14,170 No, Rodney, we went to everything that said marriage. 58 00:05:14,290 --> 00:05:26,850 If it was a counselor, if it was a pastor, if it was a class, whatever it was, we were there trying to glorify God in this relationship that we kept hearing about in church, but we could not do it. 59 00:05:27,170 --> 00:05:33,230 It broke my heart gradually as we moved on in years and seasons in our life. 60 00:05:33,550 --> 00:05:42,910 These same Christian couples we would go camping with, our kids would play with, they were in our Sunday school class, and they would come to us and say, we're not going to make it, we're going to get a divorce. 61 00:05:43,290 --> 00:05:47,570 And I was flabbergasted by that, and I kept going to the Lord over and over again. 62 00:05:48,510 --> 00:05:51,230 And this is actually how Marriage Team was born. 63 00:05:51,530 --> 00:06:01,070 One day we're at a prayer meeting, and I'm praying my little heart out, complaining again, I'm good at that, complaining to the Lord about why don't you do something, yada, yada, yada. 64 00:06:01,390 --> 00:06:06,210 And all of a sudden, something in me said, what do you want me to do? 65 00:06:06,470 --> 00:06:15,770 In the most frustrated voice in my head that I could say, the Lord doesn't speak to me audibly, but he said in my brain, you finally asked the right question. 66 00:06:16,630 --> 00:06:18,090 What can you do? 67 00:06:18,370 --> 00:06:20,730 And now you're going to find out what you can do. 68 00:06:20,990 --> 00:06:22,450 You're willing, you're ready. 69 00:06:22,910 --> 00:06:25,070 That was the birth of Marriage Team. 70 00:06:25,330 --> 00:06:26,950 I also just wanted to do a little caveat. 71 00:06:27,130 --> 00:06:34,850 I love to tell listeners about the playbook analogy, because we go, oh yeah, I brought my playbook into marriage, but what did that look like? 72 00:06:35,030 --> 00:06:41,570 Well, I had a play in my playbook that said, if Alan loved me and cared about me, he would know what I needed and wanted. 73 00:06:42,190 --> 00:06:45,410 He didn't have the same play in his playbook at all. 74 00:06:45,610 --> 00:06:51,510 So consequently, when he didn't do what I needed and wanted, what did that say to me? 75 00:06:51,610 --> 00:06:52,730 He didn't love me. 76 00:06:52,790 --> 00:06:53,790 He didn't

care about me. 77 00:06:54,330 --> 00:06:57,390 I didn't have a play in my book that said, I get to tell him. 78 00:06:58,630 --> 00:07:08,230 I actually have the right to tell this person that I'm married to what my needs and my wants are, and we can figure that out together as a couple. 79 00:07:08,850 --> 00:07:27,530 It's interesting talking about this idea of bringing different playbooks into the marriage, and we've all experienced that, where my family of origin did things differently to your family of origin, and some of those things are surface, and some of those things we can overcome fairly quickly, but it's the deep-rooted stuff, isn't it? 80 00:07:27,890 --> 00:07:29,930 It's the stuff that is the assumptions. 81 00:07:29,930 --> 00:07:39,230 Like you were saying there, Autumn, that this is what I understand to be the truth, and we both come thinking that our playbooks are the truth. 82 00:07:39,730 --> 00:07:43,790 How do we start to decide, well, which playbook is the truth? 83 00:07:43,850 --> 00:07:46,910 Or maybe it's neither, or maybe it's a collection of the two. 84 00:07:46,910 --> 00:08:04,410 Well, and that's where marriage coaching is really helpful, because what it does is the coaches help couples to see the dynamics of what's going on, and they will help them to reframe their thinking, and they will ask questions that get them to think about, is it absolutely right, or is it just my way of doing it? 85 00:08:04,550 --> 00:08:06,230 What if there was another way of doing it? 86 00:08:06,510 --> 00:08:10,870 How are you going to work together to meet your common goals in this situation? 87 00:08:11,210 --> 00:08:23,290 So by asking those questions and working with couples to help them figure out what they want to do in their relationship, they can start to see, and we share the analogies, so that's a good thing for them to build around. 88 00:08:23,750 --> 00:08:25,050 You know, what do you think about the analogy? 89 00:08:25,190 --> 00:08:25,990 And we have a discussion. 90 00:08:26,530 --> 00:08:33,309 So as we start to reframe their thinking by asking questions and sharing the analogy, they start to see things differently. 91 00:08:33,650 --> 00:08:44,710 But you know, Rodney, going back to how do we work together, Alan and I founded Marriage Team based on truths that we found out worked in our own relationship. 92 00:08:45,150 --> 00:08:52,790 We wrote the books based on what we found out as coaches and what might help other people in their relationship. 93 00:08:53,270 --> 00:08:57,030 But the bottom line is couples don't know how to communicate. 94 00:08:57,730 --> 00:08:59,630 It's like the first thing we talk about. 95 00:09:00,070 --> 00:09:01,950 Everybody thinks they know how to listen well. 96 00:09:02,390 --> 00:09:07,410 Everybody thinks they know how to speak so that their teammate can receive whatever they're speaking. 97 00:09:07,730 --> 00:09:10,810 But nine times out of ten, they're talking past each other. 98 00:09:11,110 --> 00:09:14,970 So that's really the very first skill that's important for people to learn. 99 00:09:15,430 --> 00:09:25,110 When we talk about it in perspective of Christians, we think the Bible is a great book that tells us what we should do as Christians. 100 00:09:25,410 --> 00:09:27,830 How does a follower of Christ live? 101 00:09:28,090 --> 00:09:31,750 What does Jesus expect his followers to look like? 102 00:09:31,930 --> 00:09:34,190 The problem is it doesn't tell us how. 103 00:09:34,770 --> 00:09:38,390 So we've got this what, and we're not exactly sure of the how. 104 00:09:38,590 --> 00:09:45,070 And that's what marriage coaching and the books and what Alan and I learned about, the very practical skills. 105 00:09:45,510 --> 00:09:49,450 The beauty of this, Rodney, I have to tell you, is that God is not a God of chaos. 106 00:09:50,130 --> 00:09:53,810 He is a God of order and a God of thought and a God of perspective. 107 00:09:54,190 --> 00:09:55,870 And he works in our minds. 108 00:09:56,410 --> 00:09:58,090 He says, transform your mind. 109 00:09:58,650 --> 00:10:02,830 And that is what we learned about the Learn to be Married series. 110 00:10:03,050 --> 00:10:06,830 You have to transform your mind together as a team. 111 00:10:06,970 --> 00:10:08,230 We're now a team. 112 00:10:08,750 --> 00:10:10,890 We're supposed to glorify God. 113 00:10:11,310 --> 00:10:12,670 Let's figure this out together. 114 00:10:12,830 --> 00:10:17,930 But we need some skills, some very practical skills, in order to be able to do that. 115 00:10:18,150 --> 00:10:29,250 Darrell Bock It seems to be this strange state of affairs that God has created us all to be individuals, to all carry a set of gifts and skills and talents. 116 00:10:29,850 --> 00:10:36,130 And yet then when we come together, sometimes those gifts and skills and talents rub up against each other. 117 00:10:36,570 --> 00:10:56,150 So how do we stay true to who Christ wants us to be, while at the same time realizing that there must be time where we have to give way over certain issues, where we have to compromise and not compromise our values, but compromise in some of those little things that help us to just get on better? 118 00:10:56,150 --> 00:11:04,330 Miriam Laird I want Alan to speak to this, but I just want to quickly jump in and say, in the beginning, Rodney, in the Garden, it was not that way. 119 00:11:04,650 --> 00:11:05,650 We got along. 120 00:11:05,750 --> 00:11:06,630 There was no shame. 121 00:11:06,770 --> 00:11:07,450 There was no guilt. 122 00:11:07,590 --> 00:11:08,770 There was no power struggle. 123 00:11:09,310 --> 00:11:12,950 And God created us to be man and woman together. 124 00:11:13,250 --> 00:11:16,250 He created us to complement each other, to work together. 125 00:11:16,390 --> 00:11:17,630 One is not better than the other. 126 00:11:17,890 --> 00:11:18,950 They are both equal. 127 00:11:19,250 --> 00:11:30,070 So what you're

saying is how do we move back into that place, into that, our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven. 128 00:11:30,070 --> 00:11:33,390 How do we make that glimpse of heaven appear here on earth? 129 00:11:33,690 --> 00:11:36,210 Alan Taylor It really comes down to iron sharpening iron. 130 00:11:36,650 --> 00:11:37,850 We are two different people. 131 00:11:38,430 --> 00:11:42,910 And I really like what Gary Thomas says in his book, Sacred Marriage. 132 00:11:43,150 --> 00:11:47,350 He says, maybe marriage was designed to make you holy and not to make you happy. 133 00:11:47,930 --> 00:11:55,730 What it does is it causes us to take off those rough edges, to be less selfish and to be more selfless. 134 00:11:56,430 --> 00:12:04,250 So when you're selfless with your teammate, things just happen very nicely when you're putting their needs above your needs. 135 00:12:04,690 --> 00:12:08,950 And that's our human condition is we always put our needs above somebody else's needs. 136 00:12:09,510 --> 00:12:13,530 You know, if I hit my hand with a hammer, it hurts and I'm going to be jumping around. 137 00:12:13,650 --> 00:12:16,770 And you know, if you hurt your hand, I'm more concerned about my hand. 138 00:12:17,290 --> 00:12:18,710 That's just the way we are. 139 00:12:19,210 --> 00:12:27,230 But the marriage relationship helps us to work through to become more holy, more of what God wants us to be. 140 00:12:27,590 --> 00:12:32,730 Debra Blanco You know, we were at a conference speaking one time and there was a question asked in the audience. 141 00:12:32,930 --> 00:12:40,590 The person said, after listening to our horrendous story, they said, don't you wish you had learned these things earlier? 142 00:12:41,090 --> 00:12:42,730 No one had ever asked me that before. 143 00:12:42,770 --> 00:12:44,790 And I had to stop and think about it for a while. 144 00:12:45,350 --> 00:12:46,990 And what came to me was no. 145 00:12:47,510 --> 00:12:57,650 If I hadn't had to go through the depths and learn and become the person I am today, I wouldn't have done that without having to go through those things. 146 00:12:57,730 --> 00:12:58,050 So no. 147 00:12:58,430 --> 00:13:01,750 And that's what I tell people who are in the midst of the struggles. 148 00:13:02,050 --> 00:13:03,410 I'm going, you're there now. 149 00:13:03,550 --> 00:13:04,630 We give you hope. 150 00:13:04,730 --> 00:13:06,110 We give you everything you need. 151 00:13:06,290 --> 00:13:09,850 The Lord provides it for you through people like us. 152 00:13:10,210 --> 00:13:19,770 And then you can look back and say, wow, now I'm here and I can live according to God's purpose because now I've gone through the struggles. 153 00:13:20,270 --> 00:13:23,910 The one truth about struggles in Christian life, you're going to have them. 154 00:13:24,510 --> 00:13:25,130 That's it. 155 00:13:25,270 --> 00:13:26,230 You're going to have them. 156 00:13:27,110 --> 00:13:31,810 And for people, once they're successful, they can look back and say, look what God did in our relationship. 157 00:13:31,950 --> 00:13:32,230 Yes. 158 00:13:32,850 --> 00:13:35,410 We live in a very individualistic society. 159 00:13:35,830 --> 00:13:41,150 And I think that can often be the cause of disharmony in marriages because we're both seeking different things. 160 00:13:41,290 --> 00:13:44,350 We're seeking, as you mentioned there, we're seeking for ourselves. 161 00:13:44,750 --> 00:13:52,470 I know that all those years ago when I married, I had in my mind and I keep in my mind that we're on the same team. 162 00:13:52,690 --> 00:13:54,950 That whatever happens, we're on the same team. 163 00:13:55,290 --> 00:14:02,610 That if I cause my wife to be unhappy, that's got to cause me to be unhappy because we're on the same team. 164 00:14:03,670 --> 00:14:07,450 Do you think that we're lacking that because we are so individualistic? 165 00:14:07,590 --> 00:14:15,090 And I must put my hand up and say, I'm not perfect in that either because the natural inclination is to continue to go back to being an individual. 166 00:14:15,490 --> 00:14:19,050 But I do remind myself often, we're on the same team. 167 00:14:19,190 --> 00:14:22,170 If I do something that hurts my wife, it hurts me. 168 00:14:22,930 --> 00:14:23,750 Absolutely, Rodney. 169 00:14:23,790 --> 00:14:25,430 I do think that that is the key. 170 00:14:25,730 --> 00:14:33,310 The quicker that you can recognize that, the quicker you can get back into relationship and to starting to meet their needs. 171 00:14:33,650 --> 00:14:35,130 But I think we all fall into it. 172 00:14:35,290 --> 00:14:42,530 We all fall into our individualistic needs, wants, and desires, and we tend to put those above others. 173 00:14:42,810 --> 00:14:50,650 When we realize that that's not what the Lord would have us do, and we can put their needs first, it makes all the difference. 174 00:14:50,970 --> 00:14:57,130 I'm going to get on my soapbox for a little minute here because we have the power of the Holy Spirit. 175 00:14:57,290 --> 00:15:01,590 Jesus said, I got to go away because I can't give you the Holy Spirit unless I go away. 176 00:15:01,890 --> 00:15:04,390 Do we utilize the power of the Holy Spirit? 177 00:15:04,750 --> 00:15:06,570 You use the word, the natural. 178 00:15:07,150 --> 00:15:11,350 Yes, there is the natural, but the Christian has avenues to reach the supernatural. 179 00:15:11,790 --> 00:15:20,310 But the supernatural doesn't just wave a magic wand and say, zap you, Autumn and Alan, you are not going to have a perfect relationship because that is not the way God works. 180 00:15:20,730 --> 00:15:26,110 But God has expectations of his believers and his followers that say, read my word. 181 00:15:26,190 --> 00:15:27,310 You must get to know me. 182 00:15:27,630 --> 00:15:32,550 You must know who I am and know what I expect in marriage relationships or

relationships in general. 183 00:15:32,890 --> 00:15:35,530 You won't just get that by osmosis. 184 00:15:35,830 --> 00:15:39,410 You must read my word and meet with me on a regular basis. 185 00:15:39,810 --> 00:15:40,750 You must talk with me. 186 00:15:40,830 --> 00:15:46,330 Talk with me does not mean tell me what you want 24-7 and then expect me to answer. 187 00:15:46,630 --> 00:15:47,690 It means shut up. 188 00:15:48,270 --> 00:15:49,690 I have some words for you. 189 00:15:49,810 --> 00:15:56,630 I have some things you will need to hear in your head if you will talk with me and ask me the right things. 190 00:15:56,990 --> 00:16:01,530 Do you know God said, I will give you anything you ask in his will? 191 00:16:01,990 --> 00:16:06,370 Don't we want every single word to come out of our mouths to be in his will? 192 00:16:06,730 --> 00:16:10,530 Oh my gosh, it's a guarantee to get what he said. 193 00:16:10,970 --> 00:16:12,710 Anything, as long as it's in your will. 194 00:16:12,850 --> 00:16:15,110 So shouldn't we be saying, Lord, what's in your will? 195 00:16:15,390 --> 00:16:16,130 What's in your will? 196 00:16:16,210 --> 00:16:16,790 What's in your will? 197 00:16:16,830 --> 00:16:17,610 Put it in my head. 198 00:16:17,670 --> 00:16:21,750 Put it in my head so that I then can ask you for it and you will give it to me. 199 00:16:21,970 --> 00:16:29,950 I do understand the individuality, but Christians have a power way beyond the natural to overcome that. 200 00:16:30,450 --> 00:16:37,770 We've talked about a range of things that are causing marriages to trip up or not to be what they were intended to be. 201 00:16:37,950 --> 00:16:42,610 But what do you see as the big issues in marriage today? 202 00:16:43,030 --> 00:16:51,150 Is it those things that we've already discussed or we hear about our communication is the key or most couples fight over money. 203 00:16:51,530 --> 00:16:58,310 But do those things still come back to those things that we've talked about of coming with different expectations, different playbooks? 204 00:16:58,590 --> 00:16:59,750 I think they do. 205 00:17:00,070 --> 00:17:04,470 People often say money is the number one problem that couples have and they certainly do. 206 00:17:04,730 --> 00:17:10,329 But when you think about money, it isn't the money, it's the values associated with the money. 207 00:17:10,510 --> 00:17:11,410 Do we save it? 208 00:17:11,530 --> 00:17:12,230 Do we spend it? 209 00:17:12,290 --> 00:17:13,089 Do we enjoy it? 210 00:17:13,250 --> 00:17:15,050 What would the Lord have us do with it? 211 00:17:15,329 --> 00:17:17,550 And it's the values that cause the conflict. 212 00:17:17,869 --> 00:17:21,530 I believe that's a symptom of our values and everything. 213 00:17:22,050 --> 00:17:33,750 And if you can communicate effectively so that your teammate is going to listen and listen to understand you, and then you give them the same opportunity and listen to them to understand them. 214 00:17:34,110 --> 00:17:42,710 And once you understand each other, you don't have to agree, but then you have the basis for saying, okay, so these are our differences, but what are we going to do about it? 215 00:17:43,050 --> 00:17:48,430 How are we going to make that budget so that we can spend some and we can also save some and give some? 216 00:17:48,650 --> 00:17:50,050 What is that going to look like? 217 00:17:50,190 --> 00:17:55,830 And you have a framework for working out those kinds of issues, but it doesn't come without communication. 218 00:17:56,490 --> 00:18:02,390 That's where, like Autumn was saying, people think they know how to listen, but when we listen, we listen to refute. 219 00:18:02,550 --> 00:18:04,450 We listen to defend ourselves. 220 00:18:04,910 --> 00:18:10,590 We listen for a little bit and then we cut our teammate off and we don't say, so did I get that right? 221 00:18:10,750 --> 00:18:11,670 And is there more? 222 00:18:12,030 --> 00:18:19,030 So we don't do the things that are really going to ensure that we have a complete understanding of what our teammate wants and needs. 223 00:18:19,450 --> 00:18:20,210 That was a good question. 224 00:18:20,350 --> 00:18:24,230 Alan answered it well, that we do believe communication is one of the issues. 225 00:18:24,650 --> 00:18:31,310 The other thing you touched on is your attitude and the way that you think and feel about the other person. 226 00:18:31,790 --> 00:18:35,690 Are you willing to put the other person's needs before your needs? 227 00:18:36,170 --> 00:18:45,410 It always astonishes me how right there God says to us, He speaks to us audibly, if you want to read the Bible that way, that's His word. 228 00:18:45,850 --> 00:18:48,950 He says, submit to one another. 229 00:18:50,230 --> 00:18:53,390 Submit to one another, like you do to the Lord. 230 00:18:53,990 --> 00:18:55,570 How do we submit to the Lord? 231 00:18:55,670 --> 00:18:57,310 Maybe that's a litmus test. 232 00:18:57,750 --> 00:19:00,010 Are we really surrendering to the Lord? 233 00:19:00,590 --> 00:19:05,050 And if we are, then why don't we surrender to this person that we're married to? 234 00:19:05,330 --> 00:19:11,450 And if you're both trying to outdo each other in the surrender department, oh my goodness, what could happen? 235 00:19:11,890 --> 00:19:19,970 One of the issues I see there is that if we're both submitting to each other, if we are both trying to outdo each other, then that's great. 236 00:19:20,730 --> 00:19:26,210 When we submit ourselves to Christ, we know that He has our best interest at heart. 237 00:19:26,830 --> 00:19:35,170 But how do you deal with a marriage where one is doing their best to serve the other person, and that other person is not willing to come to the party? 238 00:19:35,510 --> 00:19:38,950 So for one, it's give, give, give, with nothing in return. 239 00:19:39,210 --> 00:19:40,690 And the other, it's just take. 240 00:19:41,030 --> 00:19:43,150 How do you

start to turn that around? 241 00:19:43,690 --> 00:19:45,970 You know, that is just such a great question. 242 00:19:46,510 --> 00:19:57,650 And for the Christian, the Christian answer is way different than a secular answer, because there's the trust in who God is, and the trust in who the Holy Spirit is. 243 00:19:58,490 --> 00:20:04,730 Now, we believe that one person can change a relationship, and I'm going to let Alan talk about that. 244 00:20:04,970 --> 00:20:11,510 So if you think about it for a minute, let's say you don't like the guy that's in the cubicle next to you, and you've had some bad run-ins and everything. 245 00:20:11,810 --> 00:20:14,290 But you decide that you're going to really try and work on the relationship. 246 00:20:14,730 --> 00:20:22,110 So you stop by and you buy him a cup of coffee, and you stick your head around the cubicle and say, hey, I thought, Rodney, you'd like this coffee, so here it is. 247 00:20:22,410 --> 00:20:24,470 And then I just go to my cubicle and start my day. 248 00:20:24,570 --> 00:20:28,330 And you're sitting there thinking, boy, that was really weird of Al to do that. 249 00:20:28,490 --> 00:20:30,010 I wonder what's going on with him. 250 00:20:30,290 --> 00:20:31,810 And then I do it the next day. 251 00:20:32,090 --> 00:20:34,790 And after a while, I say, hey, Rodney, how's your day? 252 00:20:34,890 --> 00:20:37,470 And I start being more friendly and open. 253 00:20:37,690 --> 00:20:42,070 And all of a sudden, you're thinking, gee, maybe Al isn't such a bad guy after all. 254 00:20:42,590 --> 00:20:47,550 One person, if you're putting the other person first, one person can change the relationship. 255 00:20:48,050 --> 00:20:56,190 Having said that, there are narcissists, there are sociopaths, there are people that are not capable of really receiving that. 256 00:20:57,130 --> 00:21:01,870 And to Autumn's point, the Lord says, I am sufficient for you. 257 00:21:02,410 --> 00:21:03,010 Trust me. 258 00:21:03,430 --> 00:21:13,110 Clearly, in those situations, it is iron sharpening iron, and the person that is trying hard is being sharpened, because it's not easy and it's tough. 259 00:21:13,250 --> 00:21:16,030 I don't want to go out on a limb, but of course, you know I'm going to. 260 00:21:16,410 --> 00:21:22,690 And I'm going to say we don't advocate for people to stay in an abusive relationship at all. 261 00:21:22,890 --> 00:21:26,410 I don't care what kind of an abuse it is, especially if you have children. 262 00:21:26,770 --> 00:21:29,890 The children must come before a relationship like that. 263 00:21:29,890 --> 00:21:35,130 So I don't want any abused person out there sitting there going, oh, I must stay in a relationship. 264 00:21:35,610 --> 00:21:44,510 I'm going to go further on a limb and say that I don't believe that the Lord is calling divorce, but I think he's certainly calling separation. 265 00:21:45,490 --> 00:21:54,670 And one of the gurus of compassion power, it's a ministry for abusers and people in abused relationship. 266 00:21:55,050 --> 00:22:02,190 This person created this beautiful ministry about compassion for both people in that relationship. 267 00:22:02,770 --> 00:22:19,590 Stephen Stosney says, when you're in a relationship like that, if anything will work, if anything at all, it's that the abuser realizes what they're going to lose and the person must leave in order for that person to realize it. 268 00:22:19,790 --> 00:22:22,970 So the thing is, people are entitled to their safety. 269 00:22:23,530 --> 00:22:29,150 You do not need to stay physically in a relationship that is unhealthy and unsafe. 270 00:22:29,470 --> 00:22:32,010 So physical separation may be in order. 271 00:22:32,370 --> 00:22:41,730 And again, to Autumn's point, if anything, that can bring the other person around to the point where they realize they have something to lose if they don't change, and then they're ready to change. 272 00:22:42,130 --> 00:22:51,570 But Robby, let me just say, it is not unusual for one person to want to work on the relationship and the other person be reluctant. 273 00:22:51,910 --> 00:22:56,370 But I'm going to tell you something that we hear over and over and over again, and this has to do with the coaching. 274 00:22:56,890 --> 00:23:09,330 They say after the first session, because a coaching session lasts two hours, and a coaching session is with a secular couple, a male and a female Christian married couple who meet with you. 275 00:23:09,470 --> 00:23:11,370 And we hear this over and over again. 276 00:23:11,710 --> 00:23:13,990 We now know what to do. 277 00:23:14,350 --> 00:23:18,610 We have hope for the first time, even from the reluctant person that's sitting there. 278 00:23:18,770 --> 00:23:26,650 We can sit there and watch this person with crossed arms and sad face, uncross their arms and get a smile on their face, because now they have hope. 279 00:23:26,770 --> 00:23:35,410 They have something concrete that they can do, and they have a couple that's going to walk with them through it and love them and stay with them and be the encouragers. 280 00:23:35,670 --> 00:23:42,010 They say, wow, we've been to counseling for X number of years or X number of months. 281 00:23:42,250 --> 00:23:46,510 You've given us more hope in this two hours than we've ever seen before. 282 00:23:46,950 --> 00:23:49,510 That's my answer to the reluctant person. 283 00:23:49,910 --> 00:23:53,410 At some stage, you've decided to go even further afield. 284 00:23:53,490 --> 00:23:58,950 And as I mentioned in the introduction, you've written the Rick and Jane Learn to be Married series. 285 00:23:59,550 --> 00:24:04,410 Tell me what prompted that, and tell me some of the things that you actually tackle in that series. 286 00:24:04,870 --> 00:24:05,090 Sure. 287 00:24:05,270 --> 00:24:07,430 The series actually started back in 2013. 288 00:24:07,890 --> 00:24:14,430 We were sitting in a coffee shop, and we were

talking about how we could introduce people to coaching, going back and forth. 289 00:24:14,510 --> 00:24:16,110 And I was taking notes on a napkin. 290 00:24:16,450 --> 00:24:17,890 That's where Rick and Jane were born. 291 00:24:18,250 --> 00:24:23,490 We wrote the first book, and then we were running marriage teams, so I didn't have time to write the rest of them. 292 00:24:23,490 --> 00:24:28,710 When I turned over the executive director role, we had time to finish the series. 293 00:24:29,190 --> 00:24:37,670 So that's when we wrote the other seven books and a study guide and a facilitator guide for couples if they wanted to do it in a small group setting. 294 00:24:37,890 --> 00:24:43,310 That was sort of the origin of how Rick and Jane got started and how they came to fruition. 295 00:24:43,770 --> 00:24:48,250 As far as the topics, the first one is Rick and Jane Learn to Listen and Talk. 296 00:24:48,330 --> 00:24:52,270 You've been hearing us say that that is the first most important skill. 297 00:24:53,030 --> 00:24:54,870 The second one is Conquer Anger. 298 00:24:55,270 --> 00:25:05,210 Wouldn't it be wonderful if every time you saw your teammate getting angry, you had the right words to say to help them de-escalate so that it didn't go farther south? 299 00:25:05,910 --> 00:25:06,610 Then it's forgiveness. 300 00:25:07,230 --> 00:25:11,650 Forgiveness is so important in a marriage because we step on each other's toes all the time. 301 00:25:11,970 --> 00:25:15,910 We say we need to keep short accounts, and the Lord calls us to forgive. 302 00:25:15,910 --> 00:25:20,230 So if we're really a Christian, that's what we're called to do. 303 00:25:20,470 --> 00:25:30,150 But even the practical aspect, and we do coach couples that are non-Christians, is that bitterness is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die. 304 00:25:30,310 --> 00:25:36,170 So it's a way of helping people get over the very practical negative aspects of bitterness. 305 00:25:36,990 --> 00:25:39,090 Then finally, it's resolving conflict. 306 00:25:39,670 --> 00:25:41,990 It's looking at how you go about solving problems. 307 00:25:42,130 --> 00:25:44,070 It's appreciating couple differences. 308 00:25:44,490 --> 00:25:46,450 Next to the last book is on intimacy. 309 00:25:47,190 --> 00:25:48,710 And the last book is called The Secret. 310 00:25:49,430 --> 00:25:53,670 Rick and Jane, you sort of heard it from us, are not Christians when they go to coaching. 311 00:25:54,110 --> 00:25:56,490 And through that process, they become Christians. 312 00:25:57,030 --> 00:26:00,530 So it's sort of our story that's spelled out in that book. 313 00:26:00,930 --> 00:26:02,510 The Rick and Jane series is a story. 314 00:26:02,750 --> 00:26:03,610 It's about a couple. 315 00:26:04,010 --> 00:26:05,210 Rick and Jane are married. 316 00:26:05,710 --> 00:26:08,910 They don't know how to be married, like most couples don't know how to be married. 317 00:26:08,910 --> 00:26:12,290 And they happen to go to their Christian coaches, Sam and Sally. 318 00:26:12,670 --> 00:26:18,670 So it is a story about their journey through the coaching process with their coaches, Sam and Sally, who are Christians. 319 00:26:18,990 --> 00:26:22,490 In the process of writing the books, we're talking to the Lord the whole time. 320 00:26:22,750 --> 00:26:27,950 We know people don't like to read big, fat self-help books, and they probably don't get a whole lot out of them. 321 00:26:28,070 --> 00:26:30,110 So we're going, what do these books need to look like? 322 00:26:30,350 --> 00:26:31,470 Oh, they need to be skinny. 323 00:26:31,710 --> 00:26:35,970 And this is not casting aspersions against men, but I'm going, what will men read? 324 00:26:36,530 --> 00:26:41,330 And it's like big words, a lot of pictures, not too much reading. 325 00:26:41,510 --> 00:26:43,210 One whole page is a picture. 326 00:26:43,690 --> 00:26:46,430 And then we've got big print on one side. 327 00:26:46,650 --> 00:26:48,230 You can read it in like 20 minutes. 328 00:26:50,170 --> 00:26:54,150 Packed, full of help and assessments. 329 00:26:54,490 --> 00:26:56,590 And what does your relationship look like now? 330 00:26:56,630 --> 00:26:57,790 What are you currently doing? 331 00:26:58,030 --> 00:26:59,410 What can you do to change it? 332 00:26:59,550 --> 00:27:00,890 How can you help each other? 333 00:27:00,890 --> 00:27:05,250 Because teamwork is all about helping the weakest person on the team, isn't it? 334 00:27:05,290 --> 00:27:06,230 Building them up. 335 00:27:06,630 --> 00:27:09,650 It's really been phenomenal, the way that came about. 336 00:27:09,730 --> 00:27:13,270 But all through the Lord, I'm telling you, he spoke every step of the way. 337 00:27:13,930 --> 00:27:18,830 You've been walking alongside married couples for quite some time now. 338 00:27:18,970 --> 00:27:28,990 I imagine that there would be some couples who came to you at the point of breaking up as a last-ditch effort to say, okay, we'll give one more thing a try. 339 00:27:29,590 --> 00:27:41,370 Do you ever encounter people from all those years ago who say, you know what, things are just amazing and we still have our struggles, but we have a rock-solid marriage now and thank you? 340 00:27:41,890 --> 00:27:45,530 Yeah, you know, Rodney, that's one of the things we do is follow up on couples. 341 00:27:45,670 --> 00:27:50,170 When we started this marriage team thing, I remember having a deal with the Lord. 342 00:27:50,270 --> 00:27:53,210 I said, if this doesn't work, this is your thing, not my thing. 343 00:27:53,430 --> 00:27:55,370 So if this doesn't work, I'm not going to do it. 344 00:27:56,430 --> 00:27:59,570 So we started metrics from the very first couple. 345 00:27:59,730 --> 00:28:05,970 We know what happened to every single couple who went through marriage team and we follow up with them to find out how they're doing. 346 00:28:06,070 --> 00:28:09,850 Now, I'm

not saying everything works out because it is your choice. 347 00:28:09,970 --> 00:28:11,530 We can't make the choices for you. 348 00:28:11,850 --> 00:28:26,330 But yes, years and years and years later, when we follow up, people still to this day, remember the tools and the exact words that the coaches have used when they're teaching them the tools and they use those same tools. 349 00:28:26,690 --> 00:28:28,010 It's been amazing to me. 350 00:28:28,410 --> 00:28:33,730 And you know, Rodney, there's roughly 150 coaches in 25 states in the United States that do the coaching. 351 00:28:33,970 --> 00:28:36,790 So it isn't just Autumn and I that do the coaching. 352 00:28:37,130 --> 00:28:42,530 But we were in church one day and a couple walked up to us that we'd probably coached 10 years before. 353 00:28:42,790 --> 00:28:52,750 And at the time when they reintroduced themselves, we sort of had to go back in our memory and we thought, boy, that was a struggling couple and we weren't sure that we're going to make it even after the coaching. 354 00:28:52,750 --> 00:28:58,810 She shared that they've got children now, they just bought their house and how coaching saved their relationship. 355 00:28:59,190 --> 00:29:05,410 It is just really miraculous how the Lord works, even when you don't see it immediately. 356 00:29:06,170 --> 00:29:07,490 But we're planting seeds. 357 00:29:08,010 --> 00:29:13,490 And you know what the Lord says about planting seeds, you do the work and maybe somebody else is going to do the harvest. 358 00:29:14,050 --> 00:29:16,650 But we're planting seeds and we're working with couples. 359 00:29:16,730 --> 00:29:21,230 And it's amazing to see how the Lord blesses the work of his coaches. 360 00:29:21,230 --> 00:29:30,970 You know, Rodney, I'm sitting here kind of laughing to myself because you said, I'm sure you sometimes get couples who think this is like the last ditch effort. 361 00:29:31,450 --> 00:29:33,090 No, Rodney, that's everybody. 362 00:29:33,390 --> 00:29:35,270 That's like everybody that comes. 363 00:29:36,110 --> 00:29:48,130 And some of them are even divorced and they come back and they say, we heard that this kind of technique, this coaching thing can restore marriages that are totally broken. 364 00:29:48,790 --> 00:29:52,870 And they remarried and their families are back together again. 365 00:29:53,170 --> 00:29:56,470 It's not marriage team that restores marriages. 366 00:29:56,790 --> 00:29:58,910 It's not Alan and I, it's not our couples. 367 00:29:59,270 --> 00:30:01,710 It's the Holy Spirit who restores. 368 00:30:02,450 --> 00:30:05,850 Thank heavens he chooses to use us in the process. 369 00:30:06,570 --> 00:30:14,150 You know, we had one couple that went through coach training and she had been married before four times and he'd been married before three times. 370 00:30:14,670 --> 00:30:21,450 And after the training, the comment was, if we had known this, we'd probably still be in our first marriage. 371 00:30:21,690 --> 00:30:22,890 They didn't have the skills. 372 00:30:23,230 --> 00:30:26,670 And it really takes a toll when you don't know what to do. 373 00:30:27,170 --> 00:30:29,790 You know, you're supposed to do something, but you don't know how to do it. 374 00:30:30,310 --> 00:30:40,170 And I suppose that's the difficulty for a lot of people is in those very early days, that first flush of love, and you are so passionate about the other person. 375 00:30:40,950 --> 00:30:43,010 That's what you think will hold you together. 376 00:30:43,510 --> 00:30:47,830 And that's the initial attraction, but that's never going to do the job long-term. 377 00:30:48,330 --> 00:30:59,910 How long does it usually take for couples to realize that that strong attraction, that strong sense of love for each other, as true as that is, is not going to take them the distance? 378 00:31:00,690 --> 00:31:10,710 You know, it's going to be different for different couples, because some people are going to be in that, we call it the lusting stage, if you will, for a while. 379 00:31:10,910 --> 00:31:13,750 But this is a statistic that I do want to share. 380 00:31:14,190 --> 00:31:22,470 When couples recognize they have problems in their relationship, it takes them seven years to reach out for help. 381 00:31:23,290 --> 00:31:33,030 Now, that is a sad statistic, because we're sitting here across from you right now, waiting for a phone call from someone who's recognizing it way earlier than seven years. 382 00:31:33,130 --> 00:31:39,650 So if there's any prayer on anybody's heart today, it's, Lord, prompt these people to get help earlier. 383 00:31:40,230 --> 00:31:56,370 You know, Rodney, I think the reason you talk about that early love is when you think about it when you're dating, you know, the guy is trying to win the girl over, the girl wants to please the guy, and they're in this relationship where they're both mutually meeting each other's needs to the best of their ability. 384 00:31:56,730 --> 00:31:59,330 And they're not going to bring up the ugly points. 385 00:31:59,410 --> 00:32:02,110 They're not going to cast dispersions or point fingers. 386 00:32:02,110 --> 00:32:03,790 They're meeting each other's needs. 387 00:32:04,110 --> 00:32:15,170 And that forms that love that once you're married and you're living together and you're into your work and your career and kids and everything, you don't have the same amount of time to invest in the relationship. 388 00:32:15,850 --> 00:32:19,450 We call it love, but really you spell love commitment. 389 00:32:20,610 --> 00:32:26,690 And for people that make it through a long marriage, they have really developed commitment. 390 00:32:27,410 --> 00:32:35,510 In our experience, those feelings of love don't last very long once real life takes over, but they are committed to each other. 391 00:32:35,970 --> 00:32:39,830 Al and Autumn, it has been wonderful speaking to you. 392 00:32:39,950 --> 00:32:49,710 And I do have links in the show notes at bleedingdaylight.net so that people can find you easily and connect with you and all the things that you've been doing over so many years. 393 00:32:50,050 --> 00:32:55,430 I want to thank you for the marriages that you've been able to bring together through the Holy Spirit. 394 00:32:55,950 --> 00:33:00,110 And I do want to thank you for spending some time with me today on Bleeding Daylight. 395 00:33:00,350 --> 00:33:01,050 Thank you, Rodney. 396 00:33:01,110 --> 00:33:03,130 But we also want to thank you for what you do. 397 00:33:03,390 --> 00:33:07,350 We really appreciate your broadcast and the outreach that you have. 398 00:33:07,690 --> 00:33:07,910 Yes. 399 00:33:08,270 --> 00:33:09,310 Thank you very much, Rodney. 400 00:33:11,230 --> 00:33:13,610 Thank you for listening to Bleeding Daylight. 401 00:33:14,050 --> 00:33:18,470 Please help us to shine more light into the darkness by sharing this episode with others. 402 00:33:19,210 --> 00:33:23,310 For further details and more episodes, please visit bleedingdaylight.net.