رونوشت کامل Jennifer Hawkinson

people in the grad program this year, so that was fun. 00:02:13.840 --> 00:02:16.479 And um hanging out with my fam. 00:02:17.039 --> 00:02:18.159 It's been great. 00:02:18.479 --> 00:02:19.280 Relaxing. 00:02:19.439 --> 00:02:20.479 How about you, Philip? 00:02:20.639 --> 00:02:22.240 Uh you did a lot of playing. 00:02:22.560 --> 00:02:23.680 You did a lot of playing. 00:02:23.919 --> 00:02:29.439 Uh I I worked more this summer than I have ever worked in a summer ever. 00:02:29.599 --> 00:02:39.360 Uh six weeks of Broadway, two weeks of teaching at Shell Lake, um, and then uh just a little bit of recovery the last couple of weeks. 00:02:39.599 --> 00:02:44.000 Just sort of bring slowing it down, and then some. 00:02:44.400 --> 00:02:45.280 And then some. 00:02:45.520 --> 00:02:48.960 Uh Christopher, did you get those standards rewritten or where are you? 00:02:49.360 --> 00:02:50.479 Standards are rewritten. 00:02:50.639 --> 00:02:58.159 They're under uh public review right now, public comment, and then uh hopefully get them finalized by I can make a public comment. 00:02:58.400 --> 00:02:58.879 You can. 00:02:59.039 --> 00:03:01.520 You can make a public comment just like this. 00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:05.199 Hey, and then we get to see I'm sure they're amazing. 00:03:05.439 --> 00:03:10.639 With and then we're gonna do it with art and design and dance. 00:03:10.800 --> 00:03:11.680 So it's not over. 00:03:11.840 --> 00:03:13.840 We're just gonna add some more art onto it. 00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:14.800 Yep, it's all good. 00:03:15.360 --> 00:03:15.919 Can't complain. 00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:16.639 It's been a good summer. 00:03:16.879 --> 00:03:20.800 Are your well-being are your committees for art uh and design and dance? 00:03:20.879 --> 00:03:23.039 Are they uh do you have some uh a committee set up yet? 00:03:23.439 --> 00:03:23.840 Where are you? 00:03:24.159 --> 00:03:30.080 Not yet, because that's it's that's open for review, meaning that folks can go and and uh write comments. 00:03:30.319 --> 00:03:36.879 If we should review them, they may not be re you know, might not go up for free write, but we'll see. 00:03:37.039 --> 00:03:38.000 We'll see what happens. 00:03:38.080 --> 00:03:40.879 But um, yeah, the world of DPI is just fine. 00:03:41.039 --> 00:03:41.680 Thank you. 00:03:41.840 --> 00:03:42.800 Thanks for asking. 00:03:42.960 --> 00:03:43.759 I know you were concerned. 00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:48.800 You are I was up nights one time back back in late May, with just one night. 00:03:49.680 --> 00:03:50.319 You're thinking about it. 00:03:50.560 --> 00:03:56.719 And and it wasn't about DPI, it was just in general and no, I was just trying to remember what those uh initials stand for. 00:03:56.800 --> 00:03:58.159 I just dotsprint? 00:03:58.560 --> 00:03:58.879 Is that it? 00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:02.879 Yeah, no, I should go back and listen to some of those podcasts. 00:04:03.039 --> 00:04:03.919 No, I'm excited. 00:04:04.080 --> 00:04:04.800 Season five. 00:04:04.879 --> 00:04:06.240 This it's gotta get better. 00:04:06.479 --> 00:04:07.680 It's gotta get better. 00:04:07.840 --> 00:04:10.240 Um and I'm I'm I'm optimistic. 00:04:10.319 --> 00:04:11.039 Oh, yeah. 00:04:11.199 --> 00:04:16.240 We've had a summer to reflect on the wrongs that we've done on the podcast world. 00:04:16.480 --> 00:04:20.560 And uh now we're gonna write right some of those wrongs and create some new wrongs. 00:04:21.279 --> 00:04:24.879 You know what right would, dear lord, Hobberman take two. 00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:28.800 You know what would write a wrong if we had less banter. 00:04:29.040 --> 00:04:29.360 Ready? 00:04:29.439 --> 00:04:29.920 Here we go. 00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:31.439 We have a guest today. 00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:40.480 Our guest grew up in small town, South Dakota, where the world's largest just grain palace is, not Corn Palace, Grain Palace. 00:04:40.639 --> 00:04:41.600 Didn't know they had Green Palace. 00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:42.639 It's an upgrade. 00:04:43.040 --> 00:04:43.759 Town has eight hundred. 00:04:44.879 --> 00:04:49.279 I feel like Peter's friends are only in sort of the Dakota region. 00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:50.160 I don't have friends. 00:04:50.399 --> 00:04:58.000 Yeah, which is we have uh this this human had nine band directors in eight years of public school. 00:04:58.319 --> 00:05:01.439 Oh wow, one private teacher the whole time. 00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:03.040 One private teacher, right? 00:05:03.279 --> 00:05:07.920 And most people uh aren't as resilient through that, but she's amazing. 00:05:08.000 --> 00:05:18.879 And actually, one of the things she noticed even as a student was those that had that community-minded uh teaching really built a program that was far, you know, stronger. 00:05:19.040 --> 00:05:21.759 So there's lots of good uh teachers in there too. 00:05:21.920 --> 00:05:28.399 Uh has a former student who was a comedian and is very concerned that they're in the act because of this student. 00:05:28.560 --> 00:05:29.519 We'll leave it at that. 00:05:29.680 --> 00:05:35.680 This person took a trip to the Grand Canyon skydiving with their niece, the instructor, which would be awesome. 00:05:35.759 --> 00:05:36.959 Have you ever skydived? 00:05:37.120 --> 00:05:38.160 No, I didn't. 00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:39.199 I would not do that. 00:05:39.360 --> 00:05:40.639 You've done it twice, Phil? 00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:41.759 We gotta ask about that. 00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:43.199 Please don't tell my family. 00:05:43.360 --> 00:05:44.319 Just keep it keep it quiet. 00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:46.079 Was it this year that you did that? 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:47.519 Or it's not anyway. 00:05:47.600 --> 00:05:49.199 Uh was skydiving with their niece. 00:05:49.279 --> 00:05:52.160 The instructor's name was Dakota, so that felt like a good sign. 00:05:52.399 --> 00:05:53.519 Everything was great. 00:05:53.680 --> 00:05:58.560 Landed, came home, walked in the

door, tripped over a chair in the dark, broke her toe. 00:05:58.639 --> 00:05:59.920 Everyone thought she broke. 00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:01.120 Oh, hilarious. 00:06:01.519 --> 00:06:02.399 Not supposed to laugh. 00:06:02.959 --> 00:06:03.839 Not supposed to laugh. 00:06:03.920 --> 00:06:05.680 That means that's great. 00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:06.639 Oh, okay. 00:06:06.800 --> 00:06:26.720 Uh, undergraduate at Mount Marty College, went off to do uh great teaching, adjunct flute instructor at the University of South Dakota, has taught elementary and adult students in the private studio, great musician and player, taught elementary general music and instrumental music for 18 years in the public schools, both small, rural, and large suburban settings as well. 00:06:26.959 --> 00:06:41.120 Masters from the University of Manitoba, PhD from the University of Minnesota, uh, was the program coordinator uh for undergraduate and graduate music education at the University of Central Arkansas for nine years, and now is my colleague. 00:06:41.279 --> 00:06:42.720 This is one and only Dr. 00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:44.480 Jennifer Hawkinson. 00:06:44.800 --> 00:06:45.839 Oh, we're starting big. 00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:47.600 Yeah, that's a good choice. 00:06:47.759 --> 00:06:48.639 That's a good choice. 00:06:49.759 --> 00:06:50.160 Hey friends. 00:06:51.120 --> 00:06:51.600 Hello. 00:06:52.000 --> 00:06:53.120 Nice to see you all. 00:06:53.439 --> 00:06:57.360 We're gonna actually have to like be better now. 00:06:57.600 --> 00:06:58.639 Just saying it's gonna be. 00:07:00.319 --> 00:07:06.480 I've hung out with two of you at a time in different settings, but this is the first time with the whole trifecta together. 00:07:06.959 --> 00:07:07.680 It doesn't help. 00:07:07.839 --> 00:07:08.800 It's better, it's a worse. 00:07:09.759 --> 00:07:11.920 It's like an exponential error. 00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:12.639 Yeah. 00:07:12.959 --> 00:07:14.720 It's like two of us are dumb. 00:07:14.879 --> 00:07:16.639 Three of us are really stupid. 00:07:16.800 --> 00:07:18.959 You put us all together, it just gets worse. 00:07:19.199 --> 00:07:20.079 There's another story. 00:07:20.240 --> 00:07:26.560 Wait, I forgot to say which we don't obviously talk about, but um, Jen, do you want to tell them about your second marching band parade ever? 00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:27.680 Sure. 00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:28.639 Yeah. 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:34.480 So we had a homecoming parade in this small rural community, and I'm the only band director. 00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:45.759 So I went through with the junior high band, and then the high school band ends the parade, and we circle up around a big flag in the middle of Main Street downtown and do a pep rally afterward, right? 00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:46.959 For the game. 00:07:47.199 --> 00:07:48.560 So this is homecoming. 00:07:48.639 --> 00:07:50.879 I'm I'm going through with the junior high students. 00:07:51.040 --> 00:07:52.879 I go through with

the high school students. 00:07:53.040 --> 00:08:02.319 Afterward, one of the trumpet players comes up to me and said, Yeah, my trumpet doesn't work, and shows me his trumpet, and the bell is just flattened. 00:08:02.879 --> 00:08:05.759 Everything in front of all the tubing is just flat. 00:08:05.920 --> 00:08:07.120 I'm like, what happened? 00:08:07.279 --> 00:08:10.399 He said, Well, I set my trumpet on the ground. 00:08:10.639 --> 00:08:11.519 That ran over. 00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:14.800 And it got run over by the science teacher. 00:08:15.199 --> 00:08:17.519 The science teacher ran over the trumpet. 00:08:17.680 --> 00:08:18.240 I love it. 00:08:18.480 --> 00:08:28.399 He had pulled backed into the parking spot and apparently accidentally put it in reverse when he got in, and he hopped the curb across the sidewalk and onto the grass. 00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:31.680 So it was sitting right next to our brand new set of tenors. 00:08:31.759 --> 00:08:34.399 So at least those were spared and they didn't turn into two things. 00:08:34.639 --> 00:08:35.600 I mean, better a trumpet. 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:36.399 I mean, yeah, really. 00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:38.799 That probably didn't matter with the sound either. 00:08:38.879 --> 00:08:40.480 But yeah, no, I get that. 00:08:40.720 --> 00:08:41.440 Middle school. 00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:42.720 That makes sense. 00:08:42.960 --> 00:08:43.759 Logical almost. 00:08:43.840 --> 00:08:44.000 Yeah. 00:08:44.320 --> 00:08:44.799 Gotta love that. 00:08:45.360 --> 00:08:45.679 Wow. 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:47.039 The things that happen. 00:08:47.600 --> 00:08:48.399 Yeah, right. 00:08:49.039 --> 00:08:52.159 We were actually able to get it fixed, which was astounding. 00:08:53.120 --> 00:08:53.919 It's amazing. 00:08:54.480 --> 00:08:55.120 I love it. 00:08:55.360 --> 00:08:55.679 Okay. 00:08:55.919 --> 00:08:56.960 Skydiving. 00:08:57.039 --> 00:09:08.639 And then you torqued your toe at the Yeah, like I can, and this when you skydive the Grand Canyon, the drop zone's like 16,000 feet. 00:09:08.879 --> 00:09:12.559 So it's one of the taller jump zones in the U.S. 00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:14.480 So it was great. 00:09:14.639 --> 00:09:16.320 My dad was 82nd Airborne. 00:09:16.399 --> 00:09:21.039 So he talked all the time about how jumping out of a plane was like the biggest thrill ever. 00:09:21.360 --> 00:09:25.200 Um, and he would take jumps for guys who are afraid of heights. 00:09:25.360 --> 00:09:28.159 I don't know how you get into the 82nd airborne if you're afraid of heights. 00:09:28.320 --> 00:09:36.240 But anyway, um, people would pay him to wear their flight, their jacket, and jump out of the plane because they didn't look at their faces. 00:09:36.320 --> 00:09:39.679 They just checked their name on the thing and they checked it off the list. 00:09:39.759 --> 00:09:42.240 So we went and did this jump and it was great. 00:09:42.559 --> 00:09:47.279 And like super good, one of the best things I've ever done. 00:09:47.440 --> 00:09:54.159 But yeah, I walked into the laundry room in the dark when I got home and didn't realize that my husband had put a stool there. 00:09:54.559 --> 00:09:57.440 I just drilled straight into it, broke my toe. 00:09:57.519 --> 00:10:00.240 I was in a boot for like weeks. 00:10:00.320 --> 00:10:01.600 It was tore terrible. 00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:03.279 Everybody's like, oh my gosh. 00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:06.879 You know, everyone assumed that this happened on the skydive, but it didn't. 00:10:07.120 --> 00:10:09.759 So how did you skydive twice and your family doesn't know? 00:10:10.799 --> 00:10:12.720 Uh they they do. 00:10:12.879 --> 00:10:14.879 They just don't like to be reminded of it. 00:10:15.039 --> 00:10:22.000 Um, but I was um the first time I don't I I want to say that I did it willingly, but I don't I think that might be a stretch. 00:10:22.159 --> 00:10:28.480 Um, I was with friends and sort of somewhere in between bullied and peer pressured into going. 00:10:28.799 --> 00:10:30.240 Uh and I made it. 00:10:30.320 --> 00:10:35.440 Uh I was strapped to a a guy named Gary with limited dental work. 00:10:35.840 --> 00:10:42.240 And uh we we jumped out of the plane and uh and and and survived. 00:10:42.399 --> 00:10:45.759 Uh and then the second time was uh with the Go ahead. 00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:48.799 I so you thought I should do that again with Gary. 00:10:49.360 --> 00:10:53.279 Yeah, the second time was uh same set of people, but we all went willingly. 00:10:53.440 --> 00:10:54.720 And then that was the end. 00:10:54.879 --> 00:10:56.000 That was the that was the end of it. 00:10:56.080 --> 00:11:00.720 There uh I sometimes when you live in the in Kansas, there's you're looking for things to do. 00:11:01.039 --> 00:11:02.720 And so this is before children. 00:11:02.879 --> 00:11:05.759 This is before like, you know, you you yeah, yes. 00:11:06.080 --> 00:11:08.559 It was, it was, but I did not break anything. 00:11:08.720 --> 00:11:10.879 Uh that would have that's uh sad. 00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:11.519 Yeah. 00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:13.440 Well I didn't either technically. 00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:14.799 Not uh not on the trip. 00:11:14.879 --> 00:11:16.320 It was after I got home. 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:18.240 So I can do the big things well. 00:11:18.559 --> 00:11:19.039 Right, right. 00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:19.919 Yes, the little things. 00:11:20.399 --> 00:11:20.879 And safely. 00:11:21.039 --> 00:11:22.879 The little things are a struggle, I guess. 00:11:23.200 --> 00:11:25.600 It's better than the alternative, than flipping that around, right? 00:11:25.840 --> 00:11:26.080 Yeah, right. 00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:27.840 Otherwise, that's that's so good, right? 00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:31.919 Um, Peter's one of my favorite things about my new colleague. 00:11:32.159 --> 00:11:32.639 What? 00:11:32.879 --> 00:11:37.679 Well, I was gonna say you're gonna kick us off season five with a really good question.

00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:38.480 Here we go. 00:11:38.799 --> 00:11:39.200 Here it is. 00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:40.000 Build it up. 00:11:40.320 --> 00:11:43.919 I don't really have a let's go, but this is you're gonna start strong. 00:11:44.240 --> 00:11:45.440 Start strong. 00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:47.519 Okay, now I'm sweating. 00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:48.639 Hold on a second here. 00:11:49.279 --> 00:11:51.039 It doesn't take much room to sweat. 00:11:51.279 --> 00:11:52.000 I'm stretching out. 00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:52.960 I gotta stretch out now. 00:11:53.039 --> 00:11:55.919 I gotta get lean them at the side, a little bit of that. 00:11:56.320 --> 00:11:57.360 Chris, get the timer going. 00:11:57.519 --> 00:11:58.080 Set the timer. 00:11:58.639 --> 00:12:00.720 One of my favorite things about teaching with Dr. 00:12:00.799 --> 00:12:08.960 Hawkinson is that not only is she a phenomenal music educator and teacher of teachers, she's also a great band director. 00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:18.480 So my question is, Jen, with all your success in your time in the public schools, why did you leave teaching in the public schools to do what you do now? 00:12:19.120 --> 00:12:25.440 When I was an undergrad, I thought I was gonna get my doctorate someday. 00:12:25.600 --> 00:12:27.039 I just knew I would. 00:12:27.279 --> 00:12:27.759 Right. 00:12:27.919 --> 00:12:34.399 I have no reason to think why I would, why I would even do that because now no one in my family had gone to college. 00:12:34.720 --> 00:12:39.759 So even as an undergrad, I knew I was gonna go and get a couple more degrees eventually. 00:12:39.919 --> 00:12:53.759 And after I'd taught for a while, I kind of decided that I needed, I really wanted to work on my conducting, just not only for myself, but so that I could help my students in their musicianship and be able to do more. 00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:56.559 And I wanted to be better for them. 00:12:56.799 --> 00:13:02.000 So I did my uh master's degree in conducting in Canada with Dale Wanus. 00:13:02.159 --> 00:13:06.399 Um, and I also studied a little bit with Fraser Link later during that time too. 00:13:06.559 --> 00:13:22.159 Um, he's actually the one who helped me get through the degree at the end because Dale had become sick and was not able to help me out through the recital part of that, which I did at home with players that I was playing with in the Dakota Wind Ensemble, which was super good. 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:25.200 Um and so I did that while I was teaching. 00:13:25.360 --> 00:13:38.399 Like I would leave for six weeks and bandcamp is going on and um come back and we'd be in, we'd be in everyday bandcamp charting drill and doing all the things, and it was great. 00:13:38.639 --> 00:13:51.120 And at the point that, and I had been thinking about doing a doctorate for a long time, but I had a really great job, you know, the the the trifecta of things that you don't want to leave. 00:13:51.279 --> 00:13:59.919 You've got great students, you've got great administrative support, and the parents and families are like on your side, like totally. 00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:01.279 It was so beautiful. 00:14:01.519 --> 00:14:05.120 And I thought, man, why do I want to screw this up? 00:14:05.360 --> 00:14:05.679 Right. 00:14:05.919 --> 00:14:08.960 So I'm gonna why would I leave? 00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:11.919 And you and this was before you could get it. 00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:17.519 There's a few programs now where you can get a doctorate with a minimum amount of time on campus. 00:14:17.919 --> 00:14:21.440 Um, and I actually have a couple of friends who did that. 00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:33.039 Um, but I just thought, okay, it really was, I turned 40 and I went, if I'm ever gonna do this, I've got to do it now or just forget that I'm ever gonna do it. 00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:36.639 And um, that was kind of the impetus to do it. 00:14:36.720 --> 00:14:38.480 So I applied at the University of Minnesota. 00:14:38.559 --> 00:14:49.279 It was the only place I would be so mad at students if they did that and applied at one place, but it was close by and my husband didn't have to move, and we could make that work. 00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:50.240 So I did that. 00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:50.960 Yeah. 00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:53.759 And you're good, that's really cool. 00:14:53.919 --> 00:14:58.559 And then um Central Arkansas just did it all. 00:14:58.960 --> 00:14:59.919 Did it all. 00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:00.720 Mm-hmm. 00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:01.600 Yeah. 00:15:01.840 --> 00:15:05.120 Um undergraduate and music ed. 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:18.720 I was the program coordinator for instrumental music ed and area head for music ed after my I had a colleague that had been there for longer um who hired me, and then she went on to new opportunities. 00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:24.799 And so at that point, then I kind of took those things over and was in charge of graduate music education also. 00:15:25.120 --> 00:15:29.919 So we had a that program was a combo of people who did it in person and some people who did it online. 00:15:30.720 --> 00:15:34.080 And you're back on the box, you're conducting a Concordia now. 00:15:34.240 --> 00:15:39.440 Is that a welcomed thing or something that adds a lot to the table? 00:15:39.679 --> 00:15:40.320 Or both? 00:15:40.559 --> 00:15:44.720 I um I love it. 00:15:44.960 --> 00:15:51.519 Um, and I probably love it more because I didn't do it for a really long time. 00:15:51.679 --> 00:15:56.960 I didn't even get called for gigs when I was in Arkansas because no one knew anything about me. 00:15:57.120 --> 00:15:58.960 I had no conducting responsibility. 00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:04.480 So if you're not sure if the person's can do the thing, you don't hire them to do the thing. 00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:05.519 Right. 00:16:05.840 --> 00:16:11.360 So um I was just starting to get some gigs doing a little bit of that at the end of my time there. 00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:21.440 Um,

but that's probably why, and I tell the students at Concordia this all the time that I don't take our time together for granted at all because I'm so happy to be back doing it. 00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:24.240 It is, it does present a bunch of challenges. 00:16:24.399 --> 00:16:28.159 Um, you know, four concerts in a semester sometimes. 00:16:28.399 --> 00:16:31.919 And you've got to press fast to get all of that done. 00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:35.840 But um, that's the challenge in it that's exciting, right? 00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:40.960 Like the first concert, my first concert on campus, I had nine rehearsals to get that thing done. 00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:49.840 And as I'm telling students who are new in the ensemble, I'm like, hey, we're gonna put together five pieces of repertoire and like seven hymns, and we have nine rehearsals to do it. 00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:52.639 There's all the flip players, a first-year student in the front. 00:16:52.799 --> 00:16:54.399 And she just looked at me like, what? 00:16:54.799 --> 00:16:59.279 She said, after rehearsal that day, she says, that's more music than I ever played in a single concert in my life. 00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:00.720 I'm like, I know it's okay. 00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:01.360 We're gonna get it. 00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:02.879 I said, You got it. 00:17:02.960 --> 00:17:04.400 Welcome to college, it's gonna be fun. 00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:05.839 She's like, Oh my gosh. 00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:07.119 I said, I know you can do it. 00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:08.400 Don't worry, I got you. 00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:09.839 I'll make sure you're ready. 00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:12.480 You know, so it's I enjoy it a lot. 00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:19.440 And honestly, I love um working with the symphonic band students just because they come from all different parts of campus. 00:17:19.519 --> 00:17:21.680 Some of them are music majors, some of them are not. 00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:24.240 I find that to be really awesome as well. 00:17:24.960 --> 00:17:26.000 Share that with Phil. 00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:33.920 Um you you work with uh obviously and have worked with future music educators for quite some time. 00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:43.680 Uh here's my question, and that is when you look at music education today, what is one thing you think that we as a profession are still getting wrong? 00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:44.480 You know what I mean? 00:17:44.559 --> 00:17:47.119 Like what what's the thing that you wish you could change? 00:17:47.279 --> 00:17:49.279 And it could be could be Phil. 00:17:49.440 --> 00:17:54.319 I mean, that you could direct it directly at him, but in general, what do you think? 00:17:54.640 --> 00:17:56.160 I think besides Phil. 00:17:57.599 --> 00:18:10.319 I think the biggest thing that we get wrong, and I say we as the profession writ large, that we got really hung up on how we should advocate for music education a long, long time ago. 00:18:10.559 --> 00:18:16.880 And we are still suffering from that

now because we do not know how to do that well. 00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:22.000 And in teacher education, the teachers that we send out don't know how to do that well. 00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:24.960 Um, this summer, I'm reminded of that again. 00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:38.799 This summer, I was teaching our music psychology class, and we do we start out with just like how the brain processes information and all of the great the ways that music like lights it up and rewires it and all of this. 00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:44.319 And one of the students looked at me and said, So if this is all true, why wouldn't every parent want this for their kids? 00:18:44.640 --> 00:18:47.519 I said, I know, I know, right? 00:18:47.839 --> 00:19:04.559 And I said, but we got stuck in this thing a long time ago about we should should we advocate for music education on the for art's sake, or should we advocate because um brain studies show that the brains of musicians are wired differently? 00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:09.119 You know, we got kind of stuck in this whole this should it be the aesthetic? 00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:12.880 Should it be because there's some correlation with academic achievement? 00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:17.200 Um and I think we still don't know how to figure that out. 00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:18.079 Well said. 00:19:18.559 --> 00:19:19.920 So it was about Phil. 00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:20.799 Phil. 00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:27.440 Um so what the uh uh can you go a little further with that answer, just for me? 00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:32.400 Like what's one or two things you would give a uh a first year teacher heading out of the gate? 00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:38.400 Uh what's one or two ways you could tell them to say, you know, they've got the gig now, they've got a gig, it's in their hand, they're ready to go. 00:19:39.039 --> 00:19:48.240 What's one they one thing they can do when they're in this new community to sort of um ensure their program and the and the safety of their students and the and the uh safety of the program? 00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:50.960 Do a good job first, right? 00:19:51.200 --> 00:19:53.039 Wait, I gotta get a piece of paper. 00:19:53.279 --> 00:19:55.519 Chris, I'm gonna write stuff down this season. 00:19:55.839 --> 00:19:57.119 Do a good job. 00:19:57.440 --> 00:20:10.640 I mean, if you're killing it and you're building great community, um that will naturally bring people to your your cause um immediately, right? 00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:22.799 Um and then also like using the language of you know, letting sharing some of these things with your students and their parents at concerts, right? 00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:29.440 We took we had a long conversation in that class this summer about how we could advocate for our programs. 00:20:29.599 --> 00:20:33.599 I'm like, parents sit at your concert for a long time before the show starts. 00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:40.079 Maybe you should have some things on a slideshow that they can read about the benefits of being in music, you know. 00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:51.680 Um there's a uh neuroscientist by the name of James Zull, who has written extensively these great books about how the brain works and what it means for learning. 00:20:51.759 --> 00:20:54.799 Um, the art of changing the brain is so good. 00:20:54.960 --> 00:21:03.279 Um, and he says there's two things that are that we know move the needle in reorganizing and rewiring the brain. 00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:04.480 Brain plasticity. 00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:07.759 Number one is practice, and number two is emotion. 00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:10.400 Gee, I wonder where we can get that, right? 00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:11.759 Every day. 00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:13.440 Every single day. 00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:19.920 And my master's teacher, um, Dale Wanis, had uh his doctorate was in educational psychology, actually. 00:21:20.559 --> 00:21:25.119 Um and he said something that I thought about, I think about still to this day. 00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:30.559 He said, you want to give students three things every day, and it's from Benjamin Bloom. 00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:32.480 It's the the modes of learning, right? 00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:38.480 Something to think about, something to do kinesthetically, and something to feel. 00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:39.200 Yep. 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:45.440 All of that, and we but we're not very good at sharing it. 00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:49.839 We don't always have the right words to do that. 00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:51.279 Right. 00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:53.279 This is one of my projects now. 00:21:53.359 --> 00:22:15.519 Um after that class this summer, I'm really thinking about okay, I need to like write an article that can be in these the Journals, right, about this very thing and provide some resources that are really user-friendly and readable for people to read, take, disperse, and use to help advocate for their own program. 00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:23.039 I think we're getting to a spot where that's going to become even more necessary than ever for multiple reasons, right? 00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:28.400 Shrinking enrollments, school budgets being what they are, all of those things. 00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:29.039 Yep. 00:22:29.200 --> 00:22:29.440 Yep. 00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:31.759 Think, do feel smart. 00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:35.119 Tell me more about um music in the brain. 00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:37.839 I know this is part of, I mean, we just talked about this. 00:22:38.559 --> 00:22:42.720 Um, but I know you're using like this new textbook or whatever with everybody. 00:22:43.119 --> 00:22:43.440 Oh. 00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:49.920 Um the reason I I bring that up is also like uh I use the new olding rhythm book, right? 00:22:50.000 --> 00:23:04.319 Which is not the way we we were taught rhythm, but the way people actually how your brain learns rhythm and using that knowledge, how to reset your teaching strategies so that they fit the way our brains work. 00:23:04.640 -->

00:23:08.559 And anyway, we were sharing that conversation the other day and you had some great stuff. 00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:11.599 So since we're on the brain, let's let's get it out there for people. 00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:12.480 Sure. 00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:30.000 Um, so this was one of those moments where I was like, whoa, okay, I don't know if this should I it was just kind of a fun coincidence that the books that Peter uses in his instrumental methods class are the same ones I was using in my instrumental methods class when I was teaching it in my last institution. 00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:40.640 Um and I was just actually having a conversation with one of my former students from there about David Newell's book and teaching rhythm that way because he's trying to do this. 00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:45.279 He's got a class where he's doing some remediation on rhythm with students this next year. 00:23:45.359 --> 00:23:46.400 And I'm like, oh yeah. 00:23:46.559 --> 00:23:48.240 I said, Do you remember the Newell thing? 00:23:48.319 --> 00:23:50.000 You totally need to do that. 00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:52.559 And he's like, Yeah, that's right. 00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:54.559 I forgot about that, right? 00:23:55.200 --> 00:23:58.160 And like, I tell you, it will be it will be amazing. 00:23:58.480 --> 00:24:06.640 Um we this book that I'm using in I teach this general uh secondary education methods course. 00:24:06.880 --> 00:24:16.319 Most of the students in there are music ed majors in the semester that I teach it, but um, it's called the visible, the illustrated guide to visible learning. 00:24:16.480 --> 00:24:19.440 It's by John Hattie and colleagues. 00:24:19.680 --> 00:24:27.839 Um, there's a researchy version of the book, and then there's a version of the book that is like it's illustrated and it's like easy to grasp. 00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:38.720 Um, and they basically did a meta-analysis of thousands and thousands of studies in education to find out what actually works and looked at the effect sizes of these things. 00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:52.240 So, effect size allows you to compare results from lots of different studies that use different statistical techniques and find out what is actually practically significant, meaning, does it actually work? 00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:54.480 And I am above all a pragmatist, right? 00:24:54.640 --> 00:25:05.519 Theory's great, but it's gotta work in the classroom where it's not anything that um, and that's just, you know, I taught for 18 years in K-12 school, so it's gotta work, right? 00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:14.640 Um, and so this book has been really interesting because there's a lot of things that we know work, but the effect sizes are too small to really matter. 00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:29.519 And so this is really drilling down on what are the things that we know about the difference like between practicing and over practicing, for example, having um moments to work on retrieval strategies, right? 00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:35.359 Um being able to move things in the brain from working memory to long-term memory. 00:25:35.519 --> 00:25:37.200 And how do we do that, right? 00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:41.599 But it's consistency and practice over time, right? 00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:45.680 Which is not something that none of our students are doing as much as we want them to, right? 00:25:46.240 --> 00:25:47.680 And figuring that out. 00:25:48.319 --> 00:25:50.559 Stay tuned right after this. 00:25:50.960 --> 00:26:01.839 Grand Tours Incorporated is a trusted leader in designing custom international group concert tours for student and adult music ensembles, setting the standard for traveling with purpose. 00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:15.039 I know because we use them at Concordia all the time, and when I was a high school teacher as well, because they provide authentic music performance opportunities at distinctive venues, and they engage local musicians, conductors, and composers. 00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:22.559 Grand Tours! 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Learn more at hidemusic.com or visit HiveMusic in Appleton, Green Bay, Madison, Ojkot, and Stevens Point. 00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:14.079 So now I have a meaningful question, I think. 00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:15.279 We'll find out in a second. 00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:31.839 Uh how do you get your average, you know, first year music student to make the leap from band is a fun activity to I want to teach music for real? 00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:38.880 For me, I probably shouldn't be a music teacher. 00:28:39.680 --> 00:28:47.759 Like I've had nine teachers in my band program, and it everything was completely different all the time. 00:28:47.920 --> 00:28:52.000 And I started taking private lessons when I was in seventh grade, so my third year of band. 00:28:52.400 --> 00:29:07.359 Um so I think helping students to get good quickly, but that also means doing things like um maybe not requiring them to read notation while they're trying to learn how to play the instrument, right? 00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:18.079 Um coming from the south where and lots of places where literacy is a problem, and lots of places are working on how to help their kids read. 00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:22.960 Now we're gonna add reading music and in a different symbol language. 00:29:23.119 --> 00:29:26.799 And now they have to do all these things to make the sound at the same time. 00:29:27.039 --> 00:29:37.759 I really think it's more successful for them if we can just do the sound to symbol thing, which we know works, and we know from all the research works, but it's not the way that most of us learn. 00:29:37.839 --> 00:29:41.200 And so it's really, really hard to make that shift over. 00:29:41.359 --> 00:30:02.079 But if you can get a kid sounding pretty good right away and being successful and doing it in a way where you're scaffolding the tasks so they can really just have what David Newell would call the luxury and um Robert Duke would call them the luxury of learning one thing at a time, they can progress so much faster. 00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:10.319 But somewhere along the line, we our learning got a bad rap because we were worried they wouldn't learn how to read music, right? 00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:25.119 So I think the faster you can get them really learning and and feeling good about how they sound and feeding into that loop, that breeds more practice and gets them moving along. 00:30:25.279 --> 00:30:30.799 I've had students who were like, ah, you know, they put in a ton of practice time. 00:30:31.119 --> 00:30:36.640 Um, one of them who went to Concordia actually, and it took a long time for the tone to come. 00:30:36.799 --> 00:30:40.480 And I just kept saying, You're on the track, just keep going. 00:30:40.720 --> 00:30:43.279 Or like, oh, I know it doesn't sound like I want it to. 00:30:43.359 --> 00:30:44.400 I said, but it's going to. 00:30:44.559 --> 00:30:46.480 You're doing all the right things, just keep doing it. 00:30:46.640 --> 00:30:51.839 And then one day she came to her lesson and it was like the switch turned and it was beautiful. 00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:53.759 And I'm like, when did this happen? 00:30:53.920 --> 00:30:58.799 She said, Friday night at 8:30 p.m., you know, or some random whatever time. 00:30:59.039 --> 00:31:00.160 She knew the time. 00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:01.279 She said, I don't know. 00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:02.799 I do not know how this happened. 00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:03.680 I said, I do. 00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:06.960 This is all the time you've been working at this thing. 00:31:07.039 --> 00:31:09.680 And I told you it would be there and now it's there. 00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:14.000 And she went on to be a music teacher for a while, right? 00:31:14.240 --> 00:31:17.519 So I feel like you gotta make it fun first. 00:31:17.680 --> 00:31:19.759 That's what the research says on beginners. 00:31:20.319 --> 00:31:27.119 They don't care how good you are at your instrument, they just want to know that A, you can make it fun and B, you like them. 00:31:27.440 --> 00:31:28.720 That's all they care about. 00:31:28.880 --> 00:31:33.920 If you can do those two things with beginners, that really gets them hooked. 00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:39.200 And then as they get better, the better your musicianship is starts to matter. 00:31:39.440 --> 00:31:39.920 Right. 00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:43.680 Most of my beginning flute players really worry about the shamanade. 00:31:43.839 --> 00:31:49.920 So I don't know if I hey, speaking of beginning flute players, let's talk about that for a moment. 00:31:50.240 --> 00:31:57.359 What are a few tips and tricks for those, you know, because flute is just it's hard, right? 00:31:57.519 --> 00:32:00.960 Every flutes are always a month or two behind. 00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:03.119 And anybody can buzz a trumpet. 00:32:03.440 --> 00:32:05.279 That just tests reality. 00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:13.359 So, like, so like what are some tips and ideas for those to help those folks with beginning flutes? 00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:21.440 Most of the the the A number one thing that I see that is not helping is when the lip plate is sitting on the lip. 00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:23.680 It's just placement of the head joint. 00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:33.200 So if they have it where it's underneath the bottom lip and the back edge of the tone hole is where the lip and the chin meet, that's the right placement, right? 00:32:33.440 --> 00:32:37.279 Um, I think we get too worried about getting to the full instrument. 00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:44.960 And if we can get them making a sound on the head joint and getting an A, then we're good to go, right? 00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:52.559 Then you can play stupid games, cover the end, open it, you know, put your finger in like a slide whistle, all of those sorts of things. 00:32:52.720 --> 00:32:58.720 Um, but a lot of it is just, and looking in a mirror helps a ton too, right? 00:32:58.880 --> 00:33:01.680 So is your aperture lined up with the tone hole?

00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:07.279 A lot of times that's not quite right, or it's too rolled out or too old. 00:33:07.359 --> 00:33:10.319 And it's just a little bit of experimentation on the sweet spot. 00:33:10.400 --> 00:33:19.759 But if you've got it in the right place and they can do it in a mirror, and if you have someone who can do it well and model for them, that helps a ton, right? 00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:20.400 For sure. 00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:22.640 So if you're not a great flute player, that's fine. 00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:26.240 There's someone in your life, you've got a high school student who's got it figured out. 00:33:26.400 --> 00:33:34.000 Do take a video of that thing and have your students watch it and then imitate it in a mirror for sure. 00:33:34.160 --> 00:33:37.519 Um, my best flute tip is completely stupid. 00:33:37.599 --> 00:33:38.400 Would you like it? 00:33:38.960 --> 00:33:39.359 Yes. 00:33:39.519 --> 00:33:39.920 Yes. 00:33:40.160 --> 00:33:42.319 Okay, this is so dumb. 00:33:42.480 --> 00:33:49.119 Um, Patricia George had a session at Midwest one year and I went because I just like, okay, what are the flute tricks? 00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:49.759 I don't know. 00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:55.119 Her trick for kids with braces is like worth a million dollars. 00:33:55.279 --> 00:34:12.400 It's put masking tape on the tone hole on the lip plate under the tone hole on the bottom, and maybe two or three layers, it moves the head joint slightly away from their mouth because the the braces have moved the lip forward. 00:34:12.639 --> 00:34:19.119 So if you just put some masking tape on it and then you put it on, it will clear tone like nobody's business. 00:34:19.360 --> 00:34:22.239 I have never not had it work with a student. 00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:30.000 And kids who with braces, flute players tend to be like really, you know, they want to be really good at it, kind of thing. 00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:32.239 And the the braces kill them. 00:34:32.480 --> 00:34:35.440 Once they do this, they're like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. 00:34:35.599 --> 00:34:40.960 And then once they figure it out, you have to adjust it every time their braces get adjusted. 00:34:41.199 --> 00:34:44.559 But as they get used to doing it, they get really good at it. 00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:53.519 And so students are like, yeah, I had to sw switch my move my tapes around because my braces got adjusted on Thursday and I think I got it. 00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:54.320 Kind of thing. 00:34:54.719 --> 00:35:03.760 So yeah, that's it's stupid, but you go till it sounds good, and then you go one more and it's gonna sound terrible, and then you peel that last layer off, and that's where you stay. 00:35:03.920 --> 00:35:04.880 Yeah, uh, just to think. 00:35:04.960 --> 00:35:09.119 I mean, Peter, all he really had was a cup mute stuck in the bell, and just no idea. 00:35:09.360 --> 00:35:09.760 No idea. 00:35:10.400 --> 00:35:11.760 I just thought that's what it sounded like. 00:35:11.920 --> 00:35:13.039 It's kind of stuffy. 00:35:13.280 --> 00:35:15.280 I have to share this great story about Jen. 00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:22.559 So she just started Concordia and we had our first um our third concert band was having their first concert in the fall. 00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:28.639 And um and they're they're playing, and I have students do most of the conducting, right? 00:35:28.719 --> 00:35:32.639 So I just hopped out in the audience for the rest of the concert because I was done. 00:35:32.960 --> 00:35:36.400 And there were lots of people on secondary instruments, music educators. 00:35:36.639 --> 00:35:40.960 So we had this bass player who was playing oboe. 00:35:41.599 --> 00:35:44.639 And I had said, you know, oboe might not be the best instruments to play. 00:35:45.199 --> 00:35:46.000 Playing oboe. 00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:46.239 Okay. 00:35:46.719 --> 00:35:47.440 Play oboe. 00:35:47.679 --> 00:35:50.000 And the first rehearsal was horrible. 00:35:50.079 --> 00:35:55.519 They just sounded like, ah, it was just like this shouting thing was going on. 00:35:55.679 --> 00:35:57.920 But I said, I we gotta we gotta switch you off oboe. 00:35:58.000 --> 00:35:58.559 It's not gonna work. 00:35:58.639 --> 00:36:00.960 And he practiced and practiced and practiced. 00:36:01.599 --> 00:36:03.440 Well, then I was like, Oh, you can stay on oboe. 00:36:03.519 --> 00:36:06.079 Well, then he stopped practicing because he could stay on oboe. 00:36:06.159 --> 00:36:10.719 And he slowly regressed back down the hill towards the concert. 00:36:10.960 --> 00:36:15.119 But the student conductor's like, are you gonna play that as a solo or do you want everybody to play? 00:36:15.280 --> 00:36:17.039 And he's like, I can play it as a solo. 00:36:17.840 --> 00:36:21.679 And he goes, if you play it as a solo, I'm gonna make you stand. 00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:22.880 And he was like, Okay. 00:36:23.199 --> 00:36:24.719 So of course they get to the concert. 00:36:24.800 --> 00:36:28.960 I'm sitting next to Jen, and he biffs it. 00:36:29.119 --> 00:36:31.360 I mean, it's like no notes are coming out. 00:36:31.440 --> 00:36:35.599 It's like random shouting, ah, things are coming out. 00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:36.719 It's horrible. 00:36:36.960 --> 00:36:42.000 The we get done, kid stands up, the whole band's just cheering for him. 00:36:42.079 --> 00:36:44.159 They just see the whole semester happen, right? 00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:47.119 Jen looks at me, she goes, What's going on, the oboe? 00:36:47.360 --> 00:36:54.079 So I tell her this story quickly, and she's like, sounds of learning, sounds of learning, and she just started clapping. 00:36:54.400 --> 00:36:56.960 I was like, that one is taught beginning instruments. 00:36:57.039 --> 00:36:57.679 So I loved it. 00:36:57.760 --> 00:36:59.280 It was my favorite moment. 00:36:59.519 --> 00:36:59.920 Yeah. 00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:04.800 And to this day, when I hear that, I'm like, oh my God, first

uh Woodwin Methods oboe day. 00:37:04.880 --> 00:37:06.800 I'm like, oh my God, sounds of learning. 00:37:06.960 --> 00:37:09.920 And I go close all the doors because they leave them open just for me. 00:37:10.239 --> 00:37:14.960 It's one of my favorite sounds because there's so much cognitive dissonance in there. 00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:16.960 They are learning a lot. 00:37:17.199 --> 00:37:21.199 Like on the theory that if you've got cognitive dissonance going on, you're learning the most. 00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:22.719 Yeah, I love it. 00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:23.440 It's great. 00:37:23.840 --> 00:37:24.800 At the concert. 00:37:25.039 --> 00:37:26.239 Anyway, that's my favorite story. 00:37:26.480 --> 00:37:27.119 Sounds of learning. 00:37:27.199 --> 00:37:30.719 This that's my favorite gen time, just right there for the kids all the way through, right? 00:37:30.880 --> 00:37:31.760 Doesn't matter. 00:37:32.079 --> 00:37:33.599 Peter, we've done a poor job here. 00:37:33.760 --> 00:37:38.400 Um, Jim, when um when did music ignite for you as a young person? 00:37:38.719 --> 00:37:45.199 Probably there was there was music in my house, but I was really the only person who pursued an instrument. 00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:46.800 My mom played piano. 00:37:47.039 --> 00:37:49.440 Um, and I just really loved playing. 00:37:49.679 --> 00:37:54.639 Um, my dad, when I said I wanted to play the flute, he said, Well, you know everybody's gonna play the flute. 00:37:54.719 --> 00:37:56.239 I was the only person who played the flute. 00:37:56.320 --> 00:37:57.360 It was amazing. 00:37:57.679 --> 00:38:00.719 Um and I'm like, see, told you. 00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:03.360 Yeah, right. 00:38:03.599 --> 00:38:23.119 Um, and so I don't know, like somewhere in there, like I got, I remember um my mom and I, I would get a bunch, I got a bunch of solos from my teachers at school, and we would go to the piano and she'd play the piano parts and I'd play the flute parts, and we played in keys that we both were terrible at. 00:38:23.360 --> 00:38:28.079 And it was a lot of sounds of learning, and it was amazing and a lot of fun. 00:38:28.320 --> 00:38:35.840 Um, but I think um early, um, I think I must have got a pretty good start. 00:38:36.079 --> 00:38:42.079 And then I remember I got asked to play my solo, my fifth grade solo at the concert. 00:38:42.719 --> 00:38:45.840 And I was like, oh, I must be doing something right here, right? 00:38:46.159 --> 00:38:48.079 And then um flute players. 00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:49.039 Yeah, right. 00:38:49.199 --> 00:38:51.679 100% such a flute player. 00:38:52.239 --> 00:39:02.159 Um, and then yeah, after I started lessons in seventh grade with a band director in the town next door, that's when it really took off because Jan was amazing. 00:39:02.480 --> 00:39:05.119 Jan Crohner, White Lake, South Dakota. 00:39:06.400 --> 00:39:10.719 And that's that's where that all took off. 00:39:10.880 --> 00:39:14.079 And she played in a in a local orchestra. 00:39:14.559 --> 00:39:21.199 Um, and when I was maybe a junior in high school, they had a need for a section player. 00:39:21.599 --> 00:39:22.880 And she asked if I'd be interested. 00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:23.599 And I said yes. 00:39:23.679 --> 00:39:39.440 And I played in that here in Symphony Orchestra for two years, and that really changed my musicianship a lot because I was playing with really players who were better than me, and we were playing classical music of all types, and it was just amazing. 00:39:40.159 --> 00:39:41.199 Who were some other mentors? 00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:44.800 I mean, you mentioned Dale Lanas, of course, at Manitoba and others. 00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:51.199 Who are some other um no pun intended Mount Rushmore figures in your musical journey? 00:39:51.760 --> 00:39:53.519 Um, boo boom. 00:39:53.679 --> 00:39:54.639 Uh, nice job. 00:39:54.800 --> 00:40:03.599 Uh, Terrell Dobbs, Terry Dobbs was my cooperating teacher back in the day, and she teaches at University of Wisconsin now. 00:40:03.840 --> 00:40:07.360 Um, and man, that was a trip. 00:40:07.599 --> 00:40:12.800 One of one of her teaching assignments was a country school outside of Yankton. 00:40:13.039 --> 00:40:26.320 Um, and so we we went out to Utica twice a week to teach at the country school, and we had a general music class with all the students in the same class, K through six, all together at the same time. 00:40:26.719 --> 00:40:27.760 It was amazing. 00:40:27.920 --> 00:40:32.880 And then the students in fifth and sixth grade who started band instruments would do their lessons right after that. 00:40:33.039 --> 00:40:37.360 And then they came into the big city to um in seventh grade. 00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:38.960 So we were doing that. 00:40:39.119 --> 00:40:52.480 She was teaching choir and we were teaching instrumental music lessons all over the school district, mostly in paper closets and just like it was bananas, but I loved it all for sure. 00:40:52.800 --> 00:40:56.000 But I also, so she was huge as a mentor for me. 00:40:56.079 --> 00:41:01.440 And then just the people in my like in the schools around me when I started teaching. 00:41:01.599 --> 00:41:05.679 Like I would just ask questions of everyone who'd taught longer than me. 00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:07.599 And they were so generous. 00:41:07.760 --> 00:41:13.840 There were just and just too many people to name, but everybody was just so generous and helpful, and it was amazing. 00:41:14.159 --> 00:41:20.159 But I think that's a huge, like you said this earlier about uh, you know, do a good job, build community. 00:41:20.320 --> 00:41:22.880 Like those are the easy parts, but those are really hard. 00:41:23.039 --> 00:41:27.199 And um, as you know, uh the young teachers need somebody they can go talk to. 00:41:27.280 --> 00:41:34.000 And I just I feel everyone's so nervous to speak to somebody now, especially to admit that they're struggling with something, and it's a huge

need. 00:41:34.400 --> 00:41:36.239 Uh so those are your mentors. 00:41:36.400 --> 00:41:37.920 You're a mentor for a hundred. 00:41:38.239 --> 00:41:39.599 Wait, I gotta I gotta interrupt. 00:41:39.679 --> 00:41:40.400 I want to interrupt. 00:41:40.559 --> 00:41:41.840 Can I interrupt you, Peter? 00:41:42.079 --> 00:41:42.400 Is that okay? 00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:44.159 Yes. 00:41:44.400 --> 00:41:54.639 I just have to point out that my my very first instrumental music teacher was a woman flute teacher who lived two doors down, and she was amazing. 00:41:54.800 --> 00:41:56.239 I mean, this woman could play anything. 00:41:56.320 --> 00:41:57.599 And so she taught me trumbo. 00:41:58.000 --> 00:41:59.119 And that was my first teacher. 00:41:59.199 --> 00:42:13.920 And I the thing I wanted to point out really quickly, Peter, sorry, is that you seem to have a number of um really important female mentors, not not always men or always women, but it sounds like both. 00:42:14.079 --> 00:42:15.679 Um, and that was not the case for me. 00:42:15.760 --> 00:42:20.159 That teacher who was a woman was one of the last ones that I had in my upbringing. 00:42:20.239 --> 00:42:24.639 And it was not an even split, but it sounds like it has been more of an even split for you. 00:42:24.719 --> 00:42:29.199 And I was wondering if that is the case, one or two, if you wanted to comment it on it at all. 00:42:29.679 --> 00:42:37.920 Um I was really no, I no, I was just very lucky that I had a lot of female role models around. 00:42:38.320 --> 00:42:44.559 Um, I remember I the other half, half of my student teaching was with Terry. 00:42:44.719 --> 00:42:51.840 Half of my teaching was my student teaching was with Merle Larson, and we were doing all junior high band um at Yankton Middle School. 00:42:51.920 --> 00:42:53.760 And he was amazing too. 00:42:54.079 --> 00:43:03.760 But I think, and my advisor, my college advisor said, I feel like you got to do some things that other people haven't had the opportunity to do. 00:43:03.920 --> 00:43:06.400 And I had a great relationship with him. 00:43:06.559 --> 00:43:11.039 Um, and he gave me chance, he gave me the opportunity to do lots and lots and lots of things. 00:43:11.199 --> 00:43:12.880 Like I was on the podium a lot. 00:43:13.039 --> 00:43:15.360 It was that was huge for me. 00:43:15.519 --> 00:43:24.880 Um, my first teaching job, the woman who taught elementary music, speaking of amazing women music teachers, uh, she started in that school district when I was born. 00:43:25.280 --> 00:43:27.519 And she had been teaching there that whole time. 00:43:27.679 --> 00:43:30.880 She met someone local, they got married, they had a family. 00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:32.480 I taught her kids. 00:43:32.639 --> 00:43:39.440 Um, and we worked together because she had to travel two days a week to the other elementary school that was in the next town over, right? 00:43:39.599 --> 00:43:48.079 So that's how I ended up teaching elementary general music two days a week, four classes of first grade and four classes of fifth grade every week. 00:43:48.239 --> 00:43:49.679 And it was amazing. 00:43:50.400 --> 00:43:54.239 And so I had like lots of really, really good support. 00:43:54.480 --> 00:43:59.760 Um, but um, because I'd had nine teachers, I didn't really realize. 00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:10.159 Early that like women music teachers were not common because I'd seen a lot of them, right? 00:44:10.480 --> 00:44:18.719 Um, and later on, other people pointed out to me, especially as I got into larger and larger programs, um, that that was rare. 00:44:18.880 --> 00:44:24.079 At the time I was at Sioux Falls, Washington, I was the only woman on staff in a public school in that system. 00:44:25.199 --> 00:44:36.880 So, you know, I do um have appreciated all of the mentors in my life, but it definitely helped having seeing some women who were doing that thing at a high level for sure. 00:44:37.119 --> 00:44:38.719 Thanks for thanks for being willing to share that. 00:44:38.800 --> 00:44:39.440 I appreciate it. 00:44:39.840 --> 00:44:40.000 Yeah. 00:44:40.239 --> 00:44:48.960 I'll I'll jump, I'll add on to that because uh one of her former students, who's also a former student from Concordia, mentioned the same thing when Jen returned. 00:44:49.039 --> 00:44:55.920 She's like, oh my gosh, like it was so powerful for me to realize that here was a woman band director. 00:44:56.000 --> 00:44:58.239 I just didn't know that that was unique. 00:44:58.639 --> 00:45:04.000 I just had this high-powered, amazing teacher in charge doing it, doing the thing. 00:45:04.239 --> 00:45:12.159 And it never dawned on me that other women never saw themselves in that role as being a band director, high school band director, whatever that is. 00:45:12.400 --> 00:45:14.400 And I think it's something we have wrong. 00:45:14.480 --> 00:45:15.760 And I think it's great. 00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:19.199 I don't even remember my oh, well, we're talking about this anyway. 00:45:19.360 --> 00:45:21.280 Um, you see teachers all the time. 00:45:21.440 --> 00:45:30.800 What advice would you give, not just about flute, but what advice to a young teacher that you see at Concordia or anywhere to help them? 00:45:31.920 --> 00:45:39.119 Um ask all the questions all the time of the people around you who are doing the thing and doing it. 00:45:39.360 --> 00:45:44.880 Um, well, the music education community I find to be so generous in so many ways. 00:45:45.119 --> 00:45:47.360 Nobody's keeping the trade secrets for themselves. 00:45:47.519 --> 00:45:52.639 If they find something that's really great or awesome or works, they want to share that with other people, right? 00:45:52.880 --> 00:45:58.800 Um, and a lot of times they're happy to share that so that they can help you avoid something that they already went through, right? 00:45:59.119 --> 00:46:09.599 Um, the one thing that is inevitable that I think all young

teachers need to realize is there are going to be days when it is just hard because it's just the nature of it. 00:46:09.760 --> 00:46:13.920 Um, we are working with humans, and humans are messy. 00:46:14.639 --> 00:46:25.039 And some days with them are gonna be amazing and pinnacle moments and easy and great, and some days are just gonna be challenging and difficult. 00:46:25.280 --> 00:46:34.880 My first week as a first year teacher, I had um 10 kids quit band at my first job because I was gonna make them play every day. 00:46:35.199 --> 00:46:35.599 Yeah. 00:46:36.400 --> 00:46:37.599 For the whole period. 00:46:37.920 --> 00:46:39.280 For the whole class period. 00:46:39.519 --> 00:46:43.679 Mine didn't quit, but they said every day Dan Lidberg would walk in and go, What are we doing today? 00:46:43.760 --> 00:46:45.119 And I was like, We're playing band. 00:46:46.480 --> 00:46:48.079 I had that same question every day too. 00:46:48.159 --> 00:46:48.639 I hated it. 00:46:48.719 --> 00:46:48.960 Yeah. 00:46:49.760 --> 00:46:50.480 I found out later. 00:46:51.840 --> 00:47:02.800 Yeah, I found out later that the students were running around the school during band time, and I got hired for that job because they felt that I'd have the best classroom management. 00:47:03.199 --> 00:47:04.800 It wasn't about my musical skill. 00:47:04.880 --> 00:47:08.800 It was I would they thought I'd be the best at keeping the butts in the seats. 00:47:09.920 --> 00:47:13.039 Which okay, and it and that was hard. 00:47:13.119 --> 00:47:16.639 So, like, that's what I mean about the things that are gonna happen that are hard. 00:47:16.800 --> 00:47:22.000 Um, but if you're doing what's best, this is the advice I got from Terry a million years ago. 00:47:22.239 --> 00:47:25.840 When you make decisions that are best for students, you're always gonna do the right thing. 00:47:26.159 --> 00:47:27.199 That's exactly right. 00:47:28.320 --> 00:47:38.880 Even if it's not the best thing for your band or your show, but it's the best thing for the students, you will you're on the right side of that gauge every time. 00:47:39.199 --> 00:47:40.159 Yep, for sure. 00:47:40.400 --> 00:47:42.559 Just don't let them put their trumpet down. 00:47:42.719 --> 00:47:44.480 Don't set that trumpet down on the grass. 00:47:45.280 --> 00:47:51.679 Yeah, you have no idea how much grief that poor cop that poor child got about that forever. 00:47:52.000 --> 00:47:54.159 I was always like, hey man, where's your trumpet? 00:47:54.320 --> 00:48:00.400 Like, and all the kids in the band were doing it, you know, because that really is that's the power, right? 00:48:00.719 --> 00:48:07.679 My second job, we had a student not show up on time for the first before school band rehearsal for marching band. 00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:10.159 And at the end, I I had everybody come in. 00:48:10.239 --> 00:48:12.880 I'm like, thanks for doing it, and thanks for being here this morning. 00:48:12.960 --> 00:48:14.880 I really appreciate you, blah, blah, blah. 00:48:15.039 --> 00:48:16.239 You, this was amazing. 00:48:16.320 --> 00:48:16.800 It was great. 00:48:16.960 --> 00:48:18.320 I need you all to do me a favor. 00:48:18.400 --> 00:48:23.840 When you see him in the hallway today, the one kid who missed, I need you to say, Hey man, where were you this morning? 00:48:23.920 --> 00:48:24.639 We really missed you. 00:48:24.719 --> 00:48:25.599 Are you okay? 00:48:26.239 --> 00:48:31.760 Yeah, 45 minutes into the school day, he came down to the band room and he's like, that was you, wasn't it? 00:48:32.079 --> 00:48:33.519 I said, What are you talking about? 00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:37.119 Everybody is at is like concerned for my welfare this morning. 00:48:37.360 --> 00:48:38.000 I'm like, how? 00:48:38.239 --> 00:48:39.760 What makes you think it's me? 00:48:40.960 --> 00:48:41.360 That's great. 00:48:41.440 --> 00:48:42.400 He was never late again. 00:48:42.480 --> 00:48:43.360 It was awesome. 00:48:43.840 --> 00:48:45.280 No, no, no. 00:48:45.920 --> 00:48:47.760 This is the power of the hawk. 00:48:48.079 --> 00:48:54.559 Oh, uh, fate, your favorite nickname, Jennifer Hawkinson, is Oh, my last institution. 00:48:54.960 --> 00:48:59.039 Students had to correct themselves all the time because everybody called me Jayhawk. 00:48:59.360 --> 00:49:00.880 And they're like, sorry, Dr. 00:49:01.039 --> 00:49:01.519 Hawkinson. 00:49:01.840 --> 00:49:02.079 Yeah. 00:49:02.159 --> 00:49:05.440 At Concordia, her email is the best ever. 00:49:05.679 --> 00:49:06.960 Jayhawk and one. 00:49:07.679 --> 00:49:09.599 Oh my god, Jayhawk and one. 00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:11.599 She's just like, I love it. 00:49:11.760 --> 00:49:14.239 It's like uh it's like a TV show name. 00:49:14.719 --> 00:49:16.320 Air Force One, Jayhawk and one. 00:49:16.559 --> 00:49:18.239 Yeah, she's Jayhawk and one. 00:49:18.719 --> 00:49:19.920 Oh that's good. 00:49:20.320 --> 00:49:20.800 All right. 00:49:20.960 --> 00:49:22.800 Uh Christopher, any questions? 00:49:23.119 --> 00:49:26.719 I I don't, but uh I'm my question is for you. 00:49:26.960 --> 00:49:29.599 Have you come prepared for this first episode? 00:49:29.760 --> 00:49:32.079 Have you prepared a speed round? 00:49:32.320 --> 00:49:34.000 I have prepared a speedrun. 00:49:34.239 --> 00:49:34.559 Whoa. 00:49:34.880 --> 00:49:36.639 Oh, tell me that's not. 00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:39.360 So I have, but we could do two. 00:49:39.519 --> 00:49:45.679 And the other thing, do we have like the band boozler or whatever where we get to ask or answer questions from band directors? 00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:45.920 Yes. 00:49:46.079 --> 00:49:47.760 Because if we had someone right in. 00:49:48.239 --> 00:49:50.639 I want I want Jen to stay for that. 00:49:50.719 --> 00:49:52.079 I think we should do that before Jen leaves. 00:49:52.159 --> 00:49:53.119 Jen's got all the time. 00:49:53.280 --> 00:49:53.840 I think that's great. 00:49:54.000 -->

00:49:54.239 That's great. 00:49:54.400 --> 00:49:56.320 Anyway, okay, we actually got two letters. 00:49:56.480 --> 00:50:00.559 One one letter was can you please stop just stop the podcast? 00:50:00.719 --> 00:50:03.119 And then the other one was a band boozler. 00:50:03.360 --> 00:50:04.639 So we're gonna go with the second one. 00:50:06.639 --> 00:50:10.400 You told people Kyle that first letter was rude and that I don't like it. 00:50:10.559 --> 00:50:11.039 Oh no. 00:50:11.119 --> 00:50:11.760 Okay, here we go. 00:50:11.840 --> 00:50:13.039 Just these these are quick. 00:50:13.199 --> 00:50:13.840 Um Okay. 00:50:14.079 --> 00:50:16.079 Corn Palace or Mount Rushmore? 00:50:16.400 --> 00:50:17.599 Mount Rushmore. 00:50:17.920 --> 00:50:22.000 Um, East or West River, which side of the Missouri River has the better scenery? 00:50:22.079 --> 00:50:23.599 These are all about South Dakota, by the way. 00:50:24.079 --> 00:50:33.119 If you're born in East and raised in East River, you have to say East River, but I think the scenery is better in the in West River, though I do find the prairie to be beautiful. 00:50:33.519 --> 00:50:35.119 Um, worse driving conditions. 00:50:35.280 --> 00:50:39.760 Blinding blizzard in the prairie or 80 mile an hour straight line winds in the summer? 00:50:40.079 --> 00:50:42.079 Blizzard in the prairie, for sure. 00:50:42.400 --> 00:50:46.400 Sturges rally, avoid the area completely or join in on the chaos. 00:50:46.639 --> 00:50:47.679 Join in on the chaos. 00:50:47.840 --> 00:50:48.480 Yeah, I knew that was. 00:50:56.239 --> 00:50:56.719 Yes. 00:50:57.119 --> 00:51:05.360 Um worst winter month in South Dakota, the January deep freeze or the March fake spring that ends with tons of snowstorms? 00:51:05.840 --> 00:51:07.599 January deep freeze. 00:51:08.079 --> 00:51:10.000 At least in March, you know it's short-lived. 00:51:10.239 --> 00:51:10.880 That's true, right? 00:51:10.960 --> 00:51:11.440 It's gonna melt. 00:51:11.679 --> 00:51:16.719 And then the last one is the bison or the ring-necked pheasant, which is your favorite state icon. 00:51:17.519 --> 00:51:19.039 Ring-necked pheasant. 00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:21.360 All right, Chris, what did you get? 00:51:21.440 --> 00:51:22.480 What do you got? 00:51:23.599 --> 00:51:24.559 Bamboozler. 00:51:25.599 --> 00:51:26.559 Bamboozler. 00:51:27.199 --> 00:51:39.360 All right, it says here, uh, dear gentlemen, uh, and I use that term loosely, marching band camp has started, but school doesn't begin until after Labor Day. 00:51:39.440 --> 00:51:41.599 We're rehearsing several hours a day. 00:51:41.760 --> 00:51:47.920 The students are working hard and we're making great progress, but I'm already wondering if we're losing balance. 00:51:48.079 --> 00:51:57.679 Between marching band summer jobs, family vacations, other activities, sports, and just having time to be a kid, there's a lot of competing, uh there's a lot competing for our students' time. 00:51:57.920 --> 00:52:03.440 At the same time, we know that the more time we have together, the better the ensemble can become. 00:52:03.760 --> 00:52:12.719 How do you find the balance between building a successful high-level marching band program and allowing students to have a life outside of marching band? 00:52:12.800 --> 00:52:18.400 And at what point does the pursuit of excellence begin to come at a too high of a cost? 00:52:18.639 --> 00:52:21.360 And how do you know when you've crossed that line? 00:52:21.840 --> 00:52:24.960 If it's excellent, it can be worth it. 00:52:25.280 --> 00:52:30.559 But if you're exhausted, imagine what the students are like, right? 00:52:31.280 --> 00:52:44.960 And so uh it's really hard, and especially because DCI and uh all the alums have really jacked up the competitive marching band scene to be something that's all encompassing. 00:52:45.199 --> 00:52:52.719 It's hard to have less time because if you're not starting to learn your show in June and July, you're not so I don't know if I have an answer. 00:52:52.880 --> 00:52:57.280 God knows if you look at my life, I'm not a shining example of balance. 00:52:57.760 --> 00:53:04.000 So I don't have much more than that, but make it excellent and try to be as efficient as you can. 00:53:04.320 --> 00:53:04.960 Jen? 00:53:05.760 --> 00:53:11.199 Um I taught in a school district that had some really amazing marching bands. 00:53:11.519 --> 00:53:17.840 Um and I would always tell the students that I will do everything you want to do. 00:53:18.000 --> 00:53:20.320 So bands are starting to have night practices. 00:53:20.480 --> 00:53:21.360 Should we do that? 00:53:21.519 --> 00:53:23.760 I asked the students, they were like, no. 00:53:24.320 --> 00:53:33.039 Um and that giving them some voice certainly helped a hundred percent, right? 00:53:33.440 --> 00:53:39.920 But also getting them to buy into it's not about the hours you practice, it's about the quality of the practice time. 00:53:40.400 --> 00:53:53.440 And if we can make that really dialed in and productive, we can get done in less time um what we need to to really do well. 00:53:53.840 --> 00:54:04.639 Um, and so that was a big, that was a big shift, um, particularly at my last school, um, to help them to feel like they would get that done. 00:54:04.719 --> 00:54:11.199 And then, you know, just like making games out of like charting drill, because it is the most boring thing ever. 00:54:11.440 --> 00:54:19.679 Um, and I I say that as somebody, I'm like, the lot the by the time we got the last set on, I'm like, yes, now we can start working on the show. 00:54:19.840 --> 00:54:21.039 Now you know where you're going. 00:54:21.119 --> 00:54:22.880 Now we actually can get some things done. 00:54:22.960 --> 00:54:26.880 It's like we really can't do anything with music until you all have it memorized, right? 00:54:26.960 --> 00:54:30.960 Like we can do some things, but that's where it really accelerates. 00:54:31.039 -->

00:54:35.440 And so students were like, they knew the number of days that we charted, what the record was. 00:54:35.679 --> 00:54:37.440 Can we break the record this year? 00:54:37.599 --> 00:54:39.440 Can we come in under, right? 00:54:39.679 --> 00:54:42.159 So they were running the mathematical calculation. 00:54:42.320 --> 00:54:48.000 There were, I had a group once who would um count their dots in different languages. 00:54:48.159 --> 00:54:50.559 It sounds like like the UN out there. 00:54:50.719 --> 00:55:01.679 We've got Russian and Spanish and Chinese, and they're all learning, and some of them were going home and learning to count to 16 because that was pretty much the end. 00:55:01.760 --> 00:55:02.800 We didn't have very many of those. 00:55:02.880 --> 00:55:04.320 They just needed the first eight, right? 00:55:04.480 --> 00:55:10.239 They were learning one to eight in a new language so they could whip that out the next day at practice, you know? 00:55:10.400 --> 00:55:15.840 Like, so yeah, it is it's challenging for sure, especially when you're feeling that pressure. 00:55:16.239 --> 00:55:17.920 I love giving the students voice, though. 00:55:18.000 --> 00:55:18.719 I think that's great. 00:55:19.119 --> 00:55:20.000 Absolutely. 00:55:20.320 --> 00:55:22.480 Because they'll tell you what they want to. 00:55:22.960 --> 00:55:26.000 Well, when I think balance, I think Phil, Phil, go ahead. 00:55:26.320 --> 00:55:28.639 I am not an authority on this question. 00:55:28.800 --> 00:55:46.320 Um, I've said this about other bamboozlers uh that we've gotten in the past that someone who is asking this question is already aware of trying to create a balance of a proper balance for their students in in the regards that the question was pertaining to. 00:55:46.559 --> 00:55:53.840 Um it is the teacher that is unaware of what that balance is that is the problem. 00:55:54.480 --> 00:56:14.000 And um I don't know what the solution is to that particular problem, other than um uh just being aware of what your colleagues are doing around in your district, in your region, in your state, just trying to keep uh an eyeball on how many rehearsals people are having, how much time are they spending on what and the other? 00:56:14.239 --> 00:56:15.920 Ask your friends what they're doing. 00:56:16.159 --> 00:56:21.599 Ask your colleagues how much time are you spending doing this and and make sure you're in line with what they're doing. 00:56:21.760 --> 00:56:23.920 That is more important than any trophy. 00:56:24.239 --> 00:56:26.400 But but I wanna I want to win. 00:56:26.800 --> 00:56:29.920 Well, it'd be your first time and play the trumpet. 00:56:30.480 --> 00:56:32.400 You good people, I miss you all. 00:56:32.559 --> 00:56:33.840 That's nice. 00:56:34.480 --> 00:56:37.440 Well, um, coldest performance, Chris. 00:56:37.599 --> 00:56:40.639 Was the coldest time you've ever played your tuba outside? 00:56:40.960 --> 00:56:44.239 Oh, that was with the UW Screaming Eagles. 00:56:44.400 --> 00:56:47.599 Uh and uh brother Tim will remember this. 00:56:47.760 --> 00:56:49.519 Um, very, very cold, I think. 00:56:49.599 --> 00:56:52.639 But yeah, it was minus at least 15. 00:56:52.719 --> 00:56:53.760 It was ridiculous. 00:56:53.840 --> 00:56:56.400 So Phillip? 00:56:56.719 --> 00:56:58.480 I marched in the snow once in high school. 00:56:58.559 --> 00:56:59.280 I remember that. 00:56:59.519 --> 00:57:00.320 But that's it. 00:57:00.639 --> 00:57:02.320 You know, just the light flurry. 00:57:02.800 --> 00:57:13.199 University of Montana wasn't directing, I was uh working on the directing, but uh we started playing, and then about 15 seconds in everything froze. 00:57:13.280 --> 00:57:17.519 So we were just singing and and uh marching around, singing away. 00:57:17.760 --> 00:57:18.400 It was cold. 00:57:18.800 --> 00:57:19.599 Very cold. 00:57:20.320 --> 00:57:20.960 You jumped. 00:57:21.760 --> 00:57:24.800 Multiple, multiple blizzards. 00:57:25.280 --> 00:57:31.039 Um pouring rain once at a gig uh at KU. 00:57:31.599 --> 00:57:32.639 We had driven. 00:57:32.800 --> 00:57:34.960 It was that was crazy. 00:57:35.119 --> 00:57:47.920 It turned out to be one of the best um events that we ever did because the KU folks were so kind and um helped us work out the thing where the parent buses couldn't leave because their drivers had to rest and that kind of thing. 00:57:48.000 --> 00:57:56.639 But um, in the first small town I taught in, they were gonna do a living nativity right after Thanksgiving to kick off the holiday season. 00:57:56.880 --> 00:57:57.679 Oh my god. 00:57:58.320 --> 00:58:03.119 With band outdoors in the city park with live animals. 00:58:03.280 --> 00:58:04.800 This was a living nativity, friends. 00:58:05.039 --> 00:58:06.000 Oh my god. 00:58:06.639 --> 00:58:10.159 Wow, yes. 00:58:10.480 --> 00:58:11.679 Scaring the animals. 00:58:11.840 --> 00:58:12.960 I love this. 00:58:13.840 --> 00:58:23.679 So yeah, we we had small groups who played some things, but you know, like instruments were freezing up after they played two notes, and it was just the way it was. 00:58:24.000 --> 00:58:25.599 But it was no. 00:58:26.239 --> 00:58:27.039 Sorry. 00:58:28.719 --> 00:58:32.639 How many animals were scared when the wind instruments started playing for the city? 00:58:32.800 --> 00:58:36.559 And like, you know, we we're gonna have to take the instruments over there if the animals are here. 00:58:36.639 --> 00:58:36.719 Right. 00:58:37.119 --> 00:58:38.400 Right, the turn camel. 00:58:38.719 --> 00:58:40.400 I love it that it was even gonna happen. 00:58:40.480 --> 00:58:40.960 This is magical. 00:58:41.360 --> 00:58:45.920 And people have like costumes on over their winter coats and stuff. 00:58:46.000 --> 00:58:46.719 It was amazing. 00:58:47.039 --> 00:58:48.559 See, music education. 00:58:48.719 --> 00:58:49.360 Where else? 00:58:49.519 --> 00:58:50.559 I mean, nowhere. 00:58:50.960 -->

00:58:51.360 Save in the world. 00:58:51.599 --> 00:58:54.000 I don't I don't think this just is beautiful. 00:58:54.320 --> 00:58:56.639 Not a we this we're not encouraging this. 00:58:56.800 --> 00:58:57.840 This is not encouraged. 00:58:58.159 --> 00:58:58.559 That's beautiful. 00:58:59.199 --> 00:59:01.199 It was the only time they did it, it was that once. 00:59:01.440 --> 00:59:02.000 Thank God. 00:59:02.159 --> 00:59:02.800 Yeah. 00:59:03.199 --> 00:59:05.440 Well, everybody has a dumb idea once in a while. 00:59:05.679 --> 00:59:06.559 Me especially. 00:59:06.719 --> 00:59:08.239 I got lots of dumb ideas. 00:59:08.480 --> 00:59:11.599 Uh, but having Jen on this podcast was not one of the dumb ideas. 00:59:11.760 --> 00:59:13.199 It was one of the brilliant ones. 00:59:13.440 --> 00:59:14.800 Jennifer, thanks for being here. 00:59:14.880 --> 00:59:16.239 And I get to see you at 10 a.m. 00:59:16.320 --> 00:59:17.199 tomorrow on a meeting. 00:59:17.360 --> 00:59:18.000 Yeah, that'll be fun. 00:59:18.559 --> 00:59:18.960 Exciting. 00:59:19.440 --> 00:59:20.000 Super fun. 00:59:20.480 --> 00:59:21.440 Everybody loves a meeting. 00:59:21.679 --> 00:59:21.840 What? 00:59:22.159 --> 00:59:22.800 Yep, please. 00:59:22.960 --> 00:59:23.440 More of them. 00:59:23.679 --> 00:59:24.880 Thank you for joining us, Jen. 00:59:24.960 --> 00:59:33.440 I'm looking forward to yet another great year with you leading all of our wonderful teachers and graduate students and the symphonic band. 00:59:33.519 --> 00:59:34.159 Woot woot. 00:59:34.320 --> 00:59:34.480 See? 00:59:35.280 --> 00:59:41.440 Educators should be uh have some ensemble or studio as part of what they do. 00:59:41.519 --> 00:59:46.079 I think that's a huge part of great teachers of teachers. 00:59:46.480 --> 00:59:52.800 You can also take this podcast performance and put it at the very bottom of your resume where no one will see it. 00:59:53.440 --> 00:59:55.440 Yeah, thanks for a great conversation, everybody. 00:59:55.599 --> 00:59:56.159 Yeah, you back. 00:59:56.400 --> 00:59:56.559 Thank you. 00:59:57.280 --> 00:59:58.239 Okay, bye. 00:59:58.719 --> 00:59:59.679 No, we're starting off. 01:00:00.159 --> 01:00:03.360 Happy birthday to you. 01:00:09.360 --> 01:00:15.360 Happy birthday to coach. 01:00:16.719 --> 01:00:21.679 Happy birthday to you. 01:00:23.280 --> 01:00:24.559 And many more. 01:00:25.440 --> 01:00:26.159 Great to see you. 01:00:26.480 --> 01:00:29.360 Too bad this is gonna air January 5th, but that's fine. 01:00:29.519 --> 01:00:31.119 Happy birthday, brother. 01:00:31.440 --> 01:00:32.960 Great to see you all. 01:00:35.840 --> 01:00:37.760 Oh great to see you too. 01:00:37.840 --> 01:00:38.320 I've missed you. 01:00:38.800 --> 01:00:39.599 More than your brother. 01:00:40.159 --> 01:00:42.880 Summer was uh your 45th birthday. 01:00:43.280 --> 01:00:44.320 Good to all of you. 01:00:44.559 --> 01:00:45.679 Summer's been great. 01:00:45.920 --> 01:00:46.719 Summer's been great. 01:00:46.960 --> 01:00:47.119 Good. 01:00:47.840 --> 01:00:49.760 Christopher survives a tornado. 01:00:50.079 --> 01:00:51.280 Survives a tornado. 01:00:52.239 --> 01:00:53.280 We had to put Louie down. 01:00:53.440 --> 01:00:54.480 My Louis, not your Louis. 01:00:54.639 --> 01:00:55.440 Yeah, I heard. 01:00:55.760 --> 01:00:56.400 So sorry. 01:00:56.559 --> 01:00:56.960 So sorry. 01:00:57.920 --> 01:01:01.679 Still a spot over there that smells like Louis where Ellie stuck his head under the bed, though. 01:01:01.840 --> 01:01:02.320 It's still there. 01:01:02.400 --> 01:01:03.440 I know I checked today. 01:01:06.000 --> 01:01:06.559 Is that okay? 01:01:06.719 --> 01:01:07.039 Not okay? 01:01:07.360 --> 01:01:07.840 That is okay. 01:01:08.320 --> 01:01:09.360 That is way okay. 01:01:09.760 --> 01:01:10.000 Yeah. 01:01:11.360 --> 01:01:12.639 Our dog just threw up under the bed. 01:01:12.719 --> 01:01:14.079 That's a doll he did. 01:01:15.039 --> 01:01:16.480 That happens every day. 01:01:16.800 --> 01:01:17.679 Well, not under the bed. 01:01:17.920 --> 01:01:19.360 Your dog throws up every day. 01:01:19.599 --> 01:01:21.119 Just in new unique places. 01:01:21.440 --> 01:01:21.599 Yeah. 01:01:21.840 --> 01:01:25.119 And then defends it when you try to clean it up, he does. 01:01:25.280 --> 01:01:25.519 Yeah. 01:01:25.679 --> 01:01:27.599 Yeah, it's a treasure, you know. 01:01:28.159 --> 01:01:29.360 He's a treasure. 01:01:32.320 --> 01:01:34.000 How was your summer, Tim? 01:01:34.480 --> 01:01:34.880 Great. 01:01:35.039 --> 01:01:41.840 I got to play with my brother and my nephew in a little in a little event here in Winona. 01:01:42.400 --> 01:01:42.719 Yep. 01:01:44.239 --> 01:01:48.880 Fine and a fine tuba player from uh studying at the University of Miami. 01:01:49.039 --> 01:01:51.119 So that was just uh Oh yeah. 01:01:51.360 --> 01:01:52.880 Yeah, it was very special. 01:01:53.039 --> 01:01:56.639 So that was a basically Tim and I didn't play. 01:01:56.719 --> 01:01:58.400 We just listened to the two college kids play. 01:01:58.639 --> 01:02:03.199 So Miles and the skids in Miami are in the Winona summer band shell band. 01:02:03.760 --> 01:02:04.000 Yeah. 01:02:04.719 --> 01:02:06.400 There were four there was four. 01:02:06.559 --> 01:02:10.559 There were four of us back there, and it was a little out of control. 01:02:10.639 --> 01:02:13.440 So Chris and I just started just to listen to them. 01:02:13.920 --> 01:02:16.880 And we're kind of looking at each other like, hey, did you hear that? 01:02:17.039 --> 01:02:18.639 And yeah, it was it was a lot of fun. 01:02:18.719 --> 01:02:19.360 It was a good time. 01:02:19.519 --> 01:02:21.519 There was no written octave being played. 01:02:21.679 --> 01:02:24.239 It was either up an octave, down three octaves. 01:02:24.639 --> 01:02:25.119 Yeah. 01:02:26.400 --> 01:02:33.760 At least there was a real foundation in hopefully in tune for the Winona band to not be in tune on top of that.

01:02:34.000 --> 01:02:34.960 Well, I don't know. 01:02:36.719 --> 01:02:38.239 It was the summer. 01:02:38.480 --> 01:02:40.639 People I think people had a good time. 01:02:40.719 --> 01:02:42.000 Did you have a good time, Chris? 01:02:42.239 --> 01:02:42.960 It was a good time. 01:02:43.039 --> 01:02:48.880 We did Crown Imperial, it was the first piece, and uh, I just gotta say, we ripped the crap out of that thing. 01:02:50.639 --> 01:02:52.480 Teamajor six tuplets. 01:02:53.920 --> 01:02:55.760 Chris is the band was accompanying us. 01:02:56.559 --> 01:02:57.280 I'm gonna play this. 01:02:58.000 --> 01:02:59.199 Yeah, I said I'm playing this one. 01:02:59.360 --> 01:03:01.679 Yeah, I practiced that one, but yeah. 01:03:01.920 --> 01:03:02.960 It can handle the rest. 01:03:04.639 --> 01:03:09.840 I think it was uh 90, 98 degrees in the band show at the start of the concert. 01:03:10.639 --> 01:03:11.920 No, it was hotter than that. 01:03:12.079 --> 01:03:19.199 They put the temp on the plaque, the metal plaque on the back that's mounted, and I think that was at 108 warmth. 01:03:19.360 --> 01:03:19.760 Yeah. 01:03:20.000 --> 01:03:20.639 It was warm. 01:03:20.880 --> 01:03:23.119 Unrelenting for us people in the back. 01:03:23.360 --> 01:03:26.800 You know, nobody thinks of us poor tuba players. 01:03:27.119 --> 01:03:27.840 No, we don't. 01:03:28.000 --> 01:03:28.480 That's right. 01:03:29.440 --> 01:03:33.920 The work that we do to carry ensembles across this globe. 01:03:34.079 --> 01:03:35.760 You know, last year was the year of the tuba. 01:03:36.159 --> 01:03:37.599 Is it the year of the flute this year? 01:03:37.679 --> 01:03:39.119 Is that no is that what I'm hearing? 01:03:39.679 --> 01:03:39.920 No. 01:03:40.719 --> 01:03:41.679 Music educator, I don't know. 01:03:42.000 --> 01:03:44.320 I think advocacy is going to be a big thing this year, though. 01:03:44.559 --> 01:03:48.800 We had a lot of great um response from Sam Kinjonis and others. 01:03:48.960 --> 01:03:55.039 In fact, I've had like three or four different people tell me they've bought the book and read it because of the podcast, which is like a whole new layer. 01:03:55.119 --> 01:03:56.480 First of all, they listened to the podcast. 01:03:56.719 --> 01:04:02.159 And then second, they actually bought a book from it, and then third told me this is these are this is D. 01:04:02.800 --> 01:04:13.679 But anyway, um, and I just think this is something like you asked Jen, like, how do we really advocate, do a good job, and then get out there and share it with your brethren. 01:04:13.760 --> 01:04:16.239 And then you gotta go outside that school as well. 01:04:16.480 --> 01:04:18.320 Anyway, I think it's the year of advocacy. 01:04:18.480 --> 01:04:20.320 So otherwise, Joe's gonna say something. 01:04:20.639 --> 01:04:29.599 Oh no, I was just I, you know, you've had a whole summer here to sort of uh distill your thoughts about uh the podcast and the direction that it's headed. 01:04:29.760 --> 01:04:36.480 And I'm wondering, you know, out of these the lengthy deliberations that you've had over the course of the summer, you know, what's the outcome? 01:04:36.639 --> 01:04:43.119 Do you have a bulleted sort of like list of suggestions, you know, about things that we need to follow through on, you know, here for uh season. 01:04:43.440 --> 01:04:53.039 I first of all, when I was asked when I was asked today, you know, Chris sent me a text and said, Happy birthday podcast starts at eight. 01:04:53.760 --> 01:04:56.239 I was just happy to be asked back. 01:04:56.400 --> 01:05:02.079 I thought maybe my role is you reward. 01:05:02.559 --> 01:05:03.679 You're a gift for us. 01:05:04.079 --> 01:05:06.800 You your your addition to the podcast is amazing. 01:05:06.880 --> 01:05:11.199 You you're better than the t-shirt that I've gotten the last two years, Chris. 01:05:11.679 --> 01:05:12.639 Yeah, that's true. 01:05:13.119 --> 01:05:16.239 Yeah, you know, so you had to pay shipping, whatever. 01:05:16.320 --> 01:05:17.199 Get over it. 01:05:19.119 --> 01:05:20.400 No, you just no family. 01:05:21.599 --> 01:05:24.000 I love the advocacy thing, Peter. 01:05:24.239 --> 01:05:24.800 I love that. 01:05:24.960 --> 01:05:26.159 I think that's a great idea. 01:05:26.239 --> 01:05:33.519 I think I I I too, though, have heard people that said, I listened to the podcast. 01:05:33.760 --> 01:05:35.199 I really like those guys. 01:05:35.360 --> 01:05:38.320 And I was like, well, come on, like, come on, they're not here. 01:05:38.559 --> 01:05:40.639 You don't have to say nice things. 01:05:40.800 --> 01:05:44.559 Yeah, they're and and they do, they say nice things about you. 01:05:44.800 --> 01:05:46.800 They they like to listen to this. 01:05:47.119 --> 01:05:47.679 So weird. 01:05:47.920 --> 01:05:48.559 That's not true. 01:05:48.800 --> 01:05:53.119 Well, actually, it's really it I first of all, I love to hang with my friends. 01:05:53.199 --> 01:05:54.239 Let's just be honest, right? 01:05:54.320 --> 01:05:56.639 Like, this is one of the reasons we started. 01:05:56.880 --> 01:05:59.760 But unfortunately, I mean, it's a question. 01:06:00.079 --> 01:06:00.400 Acquaintance. 01:06:00.559 --> 01:06:00.960 Acquaintance. 01:06:01.119 --> 01:06:01.199 Yeah. 01:06:01.280 --> 01:06:01.599 Just sort of. 01:06:01.920 --> 01:06:02.559 In a different state. 01:06:02.880 --> 01:06:05.599 Person I've been surrounded by for a very long time. 01:06:06.559 --> 01:06:12.000 But I I would say Phil said it with the Wisconsin WMEA event. 01:06:12.079 --> 01:06:18.800 He just said it's like our love letter to all you teachers out there working hard every day to teach our the next generation of kids. 01:06:18.880 --> 01:06:20.480 And it's absolutely true. 01:06:20.639 --> 01:06:24.559 And um anyway, you said the bandbooser was a huge hit. 01:06:24.719 --> 01:06:25.840 I totally agree. 01:06:26.000 --> 01:06:29.119 Uh when you I felt we were just a little

stilted tonight. 01:06:29.199 --> 01:06:29.440 I don't know. 01:06:29.519 --> 01:06:35.599 I didn't feel like I had my best night, but we're getting, we're just we're you know, stretching out, getting into the opening night. 01:06:36.000 --> 01:06:43.039 On my way home after having my my steak for supper, I was thinking that Phil was gonna ask me this question. 01:06:43.360 --> 01:06:44.159 Of course I was. 01:06:44.320 --> 01:06:46.480 And Phil, I've I've prepared a response. 01:06:46.559 --> 01:06:47.440 So here we are. 01:06:47.519 --> 01:06:48.480 Um good. 01:06:48.880 --> 01:06:58.159 I um without sharing too many of the details, but a a really good friend of mine um who I work with uh lost his dad today. 01:06:58.480 --> 01:07:18.800 And um and and it had been a kind of a a long stretch of time here where um things had continued in his health just deteriorated, and I I think fortunate for my friend, he was able to have a a long goodbye. 01:07:19.360 --> 01:07:25.440 Um but between that and I I played golf with some people that I don't see very often this morning. 01:07:25.920 --> 01:07:41.760 Uh and I've been like as I've gotten older, increasingly surrounded by people who have retired and who've said things like not necessarily by the by the word, but have said, you know, I I kind of miss it. 01:07:41.840 --> 01:07:45.360 I'm I miss what I used to do all the time. 01:07:46.079 --> 01:08:10.000 And I I I guess I challenge all of us and even the three or four commute commuters that are out there listening, that maybe there's some things that have become routine in our lives or that have been that get taken for granted that to not do that and to find time to take a deep breath and say, now wait a second, I get to do this. 01:08:10.559 --> 01:08:15.760 Um and and this is something that I should cherish. 01:08:16.079 --> 01:08:16.960 Just like these. 01:08:17.119 --> 01:08:34.640 Like, you know, again, as as as much as as as fun as this is, like what you have created, there this will be archived for times that will come forward that um I think is pretty special. 01:08:34.800 --> 01:08:44.159 And you know, we we just hired a a new teacher here in in Winona, and she was one of them that mentioned how much she enjoys listening to this podcast. 01:08:44.239 --> 01:08:53.199 So shout out to Cassidy if you're uh if you listen to this first episode, which I'm sure we will do in our first you know staff meeting. 01:08:57.359 --> 01:09:17.680 Just when he was getting serious, and I felt like we were reveless, and he's like, it's that you know, like you know, it's kind of my some of my feelings that I had after I after I stopped coaching basketball is these these things that feel sometimes infinite or the the hamster wheel, they are finite. 01:09:17.840 --> 01:09:19.920 They do they do stop. 01:09:20.319 --> 01:09:22.800 You know, we're not gonna be doing this forever. 01:09:23.039 --> 01:09:32.319 And I think we need to take the time to enjoy this um because it it is a gift, and it is it's special that this could happen. 01:09:32.479 --> 01:09:52.079 Because you know what, if if I would have said to you at Interlockin, um, the two of you who were there, that you know, 30 years later you'd be doing this, you know, Chris would just say, Phil who, and you would look at me like I don't know who you are, get the hell out of my face kind of thing. 01:09:53.359 --> 01:09:54.560 So I don't know. 01:09:54.640 --> 01:10:07.279 I I just I I I think this is a gift, and I think we sometimes need to to be more I just more observant of that than I guess I have been in the past number of years. 01:10:07.439 --> 01:10:12.399 So this might be a good time then to mention that we're broke and this is the final show. 01:10:14.560 --> 01:10:16.319 Short run season. 01:10:16.560 --> 01:10:18.079 Short fifth season. 01:10:18.800 --> 01:10:20.720 Can I borrow 20 bucks? 01:10:22.159 --> 01:10:22.960 It's been a good run. 01:10:24.239 --> 01:10:25.840 I still gotta pay the shirts off. 01:10:26.000 --> 01:10:27.520 I mean, I haven't. 01:10:28.159 --> 01:10:29.760 I'll see you guys in Midwest. 01:10:29.840 --> 01:10:31.439 I still hope we get that booth. 01:10:31.920 --> 01:10:32.399 Oh yeah. 01:10:32.479 --> 01:10:33.760 The booth is still there, though. 01:10:33.920 --> 01:10:34.720 We're good. 01:10:35.359 --> 01:10:35.920 We're good. 01:10:36.079 --> 01:10:37.840 No, uh, you're the best. 01:10:38.079 --> 01:10:38.399 That was good. 01:10:38.479 --> 01:10:39.359 Yep, that was good stuff. 01:10:39.520 --> 01:10:40.239 Well said, Tim. 01:10:40.399 --> 01:10:40.880 Well said. 01:10:41.039 --> 01:10:41.439 How many? 01:10:41.520 --> 01:10:44.079 Uh what what'll be the total number of episodes this season, Chris? 01:10:44.159 --> 01:10:45.840 Um 38. 01:10:46.399 --> 01:10:46.960 38. 01:10:47.279 --> 01:10:50.479 Woo! Computer, get ready. 01:10:50.560 --> 01:10:52.640 It's gonna be a long season. 01:10:54.159 --> 01:10:55.039 38. 01:10:56.239 --> 01:10:57.279 38 of them. 01:10:57.520 --> 01:11:00.239 Oh 39, actually, I think. 01:11:00.479 --> 01:11:04.399 Well, but remember, 32 of them are episodes from the Midwest conference. 01:11:04.479 --> 01:11:04.720 Yeah. 01:11:04.880 --> 01:11:05.439 That's right. 01:11:05.840 --> 01:11:07.520 We're only gonna do seven live. 01:11:07.840 --> 01:11:08.479 Yeah. 01:11:08.800 --> 01:11:10.319 Oh, wait, that's 39. 01:11:10.399 --> 01:11:12.159 I can't add 39, yeah. 01:11:12.399 --> 01:11:12.720 Yeah. 01:11:12.960 --> 01:11:13.199 Over. 01:11:13.600 --> 01:11:18.399 Did you know your eyebrows keep getting longer as you get older? 01:11:18.640 --> 01:11:19.039 Yeah. 01:11:19.119 --> 01:11:19.439 Yeah. 01:11:19.680 --> 01:11:20.000 Yeah. 01:11:24.159 --> 01:11:28.000 Beyond Artless is sponsored by Beyond the Notes Music Festival. 01:11:28.159 --> 01:11:34.880 Our mission is to create and provide profound learning and social experiences through music that go beyond the notes. 01:11:35.039 --> 01:11:38.880 Visit BTN MusicFestival dot com to learn more.