رونوشت کامل The Scully Effect is Alive and Fermenting, with Nemailla Bonturi of ÄIO

a huge partner company called Fibano, where they have this amazing technology to extract sugars from sawdust, so we are using the sugars from this leftover sawdust. 00:06:21.814 --> 00:06:28.802 We can work with leftovers from beverage industry, like tea leaves, brewer, spent grain. 00:06:28.802 --> 00:06:37.274 We have worked with the side streams from bakery industries, so leftover bread, for example, which is a huge amount that they have. 00:06:37.274 --> 00:06:47.079 We can work with molasses as well, very well, also from dairy industry, so whey or lactose permate. 00:06:47.079 --> 00:06:58.754 So it's a very wide range, and we have been also now tackling some side streams from corn and from confectionery industry. 00:06:59.579 --> 00:07:04.411 Okay, so it sounds like it's mainly from the food industry, except perhaps for wood. 00:07:04.411 --> 00:07:13.125 How do you kind of like make sure that the inputs are consistent, are clean, Like how do you manage that process? 00:07:13.747 --> 00:07:13.928 Yes. 00:07:13.928 --> 00:07:21.827 So as most of them, as you said, comes from food industry, then it's easier to have, let's say, this food grade product. 00:07:21.827 --> 00:07:30.331 So of course, when we receive the side stream, we process it to remove any other type of microbes. 00:07:30.331 --> 00:07:39.485 So we are sure that only our microbe is present and basically that's mostly what we process. 00:07:39.485 --> 00:08:00.269 And then we have this very nice team of scientists and we managed to build in-house these high throughput platforms since changing the yeast to trying new side streams, and we can do it using very little amount of substrate. 00:08:00.269 --> 00:08:07.598 So 10 milliliters is already enough for us to start doing all our assessment of their viability. 00:08:08.320 --> 00:08:12.932 The value chain then starts with these food companies and agri-food. 00:08:12.932 --> 00:08:24.211 Then you have customers that you're potentially selling this to as end consumers and you also have licensees potentially right, as you said, you want to license the technology to have on site somewhere. 00:08:24.211 --> 00:08:27.629 If someone were to say who's your customer, how would you answer that? 00:08:27.629 --> 00:08:29.767 And is it multiple types of customers? 00:08:30.259 --> 00:08:32.283 Yes, we're mainly B2B. 00:08:32.283 --> 00:08:48.673 We're focusing on either providing our fats and oils as an ingredient, but we understand that having one huge factory somewhere and then transporting the ingredient to the world is not sustainable. 00:08:48.673 --> 00:08:59.416 So that's why we have this licensing model, where it's best in terms of CO2 mitigation to have our technology closer to the substrate. 00:09:00.120 --> 00:09:10.091 So in a perfect world, a couple of years from now, maybe you have this like industrial scale bakery that's producing their own plant-based butter at the same time through fermentation. 00:09:10.392 --> 00:09:14.235

Exactly or also using in the bread formulation. 00:09:14.235 --> 00:09:23.407 So it's possible to substitute rapeseed oil, for example, or palm oil in bread production by using our ingredients. 00:09:23.969 --> 00:09:26.517 And how are the ingredients performing now? 00:09:26.517 --> 00:09:36.423 So you probably have like more of the bench scale right now, but how would this compare to like a plant oil or a seed oil or a lard or something like that? 00:09:37.847 --> 00:09:48.086 So we have an in-house chef and also scientists in the product development and they have been doing very amazing recipes. 00:09:48.086 --> 00:09:52.971 So the product performed very well in the bakery. 00:09:52.971 --> 00:10:16.321 So they have done several different types of breads, cookies, chocolate we had a pretty amazing results with chocolate in in a way of alternative, not only to the butter part but also to the cacao part, because one of our products has roasted flavor and this was very interesting for us. 00:10:16.321 --> 00:10:24.815 So also in the alternative meat space, we have been developing alternative dairy as well. 00:10:24.815 --> 00:10:32.770 So it's very versatile and we have been having very, very good results on that. 00:10:32.770 --> 00:10:33.992 And also in cosmetics. 00:10:33.992 --> 00:10:48.276 We also have a cosmetic specialist and she has been working also in developing moisturizers, lip balms and creams or moisturizer for hair. 00:10:48.276 --> 00:10:49.982 So very versatile, I would say. 00:10:49.982 --> 00:10:50.804 So very versatile, I would say. 00:10:51.345 --> 00:10:58.095 I think there's a huge benefit for when a company can justify for business reasons having an in-house chef. 00:11:03.879 --> 00:11:07.163 There's probably lots of fringe benefits to that as well, especially if one of your products that you're testing is chocolate. 00:11:07.163 --> 00:11:11.027 Yes, and it's pretty cool that he has a very diverse background. 00:11:11.027 --> 00:11:20.437 So he's a Japanese descendant, born in Canada, came to Estonia and is cooking this Nordic cuisine. 00:11:20.437 --> 00:11:25.990 So he's done it all and he has a very scientific mind. 00:11:25.990 --> 00:11:34.370 So he doesn't know, but he always writes down recipes, results, so we always tell him that he's a scientist in his heart. 00:11:35.100 --> 00:11:40.733 The old Japan, Canada, Estonia route in order to cook Nordic food Classic. 00:11:40.733 --> 00:11:43.689 What's wrong with the fats and oils that we use right now? 00:11:43.689 --> 00:11:55.891 So if I think of like palm oil lard For our listeners, who love some palm oil and love lard, what should they know about the environmental impacts of these products or health as well? 00:11:56.312 --> 00:12:00.420 Yeah Well, so let's start with animal farming. 00:12:00.420 --> 00:12:07.233 So I guess everyone is aware that they are huge contributors to CO2 deforestation. 00:12:07.233 --> 00:12:19.227 Well, I'm from Brazil and I know that big chunks of Amazonia is being cut down for animal farming illegally, and this has been happening in several different countries. 00:12:19.227 --> 00:12:25.785 Also, palm oil the need for large areas for cultivation. 00:12:25.785 --> 00:12:33.629 It's also taking down large chunks of rainforests or other natural, let's say, forests in each country. 00:12:33.629 --> 00:12:46.474 So, animal farming, lots of CO2, lots of area, lots of water, and while we're using plantations, it's also taking a toll in the diversity and deforestation. 00:12:47.000 --> 00:12:48.720 And so that's from the environmental standpoint. 00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:53.361 Can you talk a little bit about kind of the nutritional standpoint standpoint? 00:12:53.361 --> 00:12:55.025 Can you talk a little bit about kind of the nutritional standpoint? 00:12:55.025 --> 00:12:58.833 Are your products total exact kind of analogs to this from a nutritional profile, or are they better? 00:12:59.280 --> 00:13:11.270 Yeah, so so far, in order to like to claim that our products are healthier, we're still conducting in-house and outsourcing, like all these tests that we need. 00:13:11.270 --> 00:13:26.384 But we have, according to their chemical compositions and how much we are adding in the food formulations, we have a good idea that they have nutritional benefits. 00:13:26.384 --> 00:13:49.268 So, for example, they increase the amount of fibers, proteins and decreasing the caloric level because they can perform as a fat, but with more increased benefits because it's the whole yeast, for example, and we know that we do not have any trans fats in our profile. 00:13:49.268 --> 00:13:59.968 And, of course, in the pipeline of our new products, we are also developing oils that are richer in omega-3 antioxidants. 00:13:59.968 --> 00:14:08.451 So by the chemistry, we can expect that they will have more nutritional effect, but I cannot claim before we can perform this. 00:14:08.820 --> 00:14:10.847 No footnotes required for this podcast. 00:14:10.847 --> 00:14:25.991 Yes, as you mentioned, you're originally from Brazil and you're a scientist in Brazil, moved to I mean, I'll say Scandinavia broadly, because you weren't just in Estonia, continued your academic career there and then founded IO. 00:14:25.991 --> 00:14:34.096 Can you talk a little bit just about what that journey was, both geographically but also the switch from academic to founder? 00:14:34.497 --> 00:14:37.785 yes, well, the first time I saw is knowing my life. 00:14:37.785 --> 00:14:39.088 I was 30 years old. 00:14:39.088 --> 00:14:48.006 I left the airport and it was super snowy outside and I was like a kid touching there's no, secretly tasting. 00:14:48.006 --> 00:14:49.508 There's no, not from the ground. 00:14:50.789 --> 00:14:53.673 And you're wondering why it's so dark at 2.30 PM. 00:14:54.214 --> 00:15:01.009 Yes, yes, so, culturally and geographically, I guess it was a 60 degrees difference. 00:15:01.009 --> 00:15:05.701

So Brazil was 40 minus 20 where I landed first. 00:15:05.701 --> 00:15:09.107 But yes, I was a scientist in Brazil. 00:15:09.107 --> 00:15:12.171 I finished my PhD in 2016. 00:15:12.171 --> 00:15:18.908 And it was exactly when I was not very happy with the political situation that I started there. 00:15:18.908 --> 00:15:25.345 Well, when certain type of people get into power, we know that they will deny science. 00:15:25.345 --> 00:15:30.014 They will make your country go 50 years or a hundred back. 00:15:30.440 --> 00:15:31.523 Yeah, in the back. 00:15:31.683 --> 00:15:33.788 So yeah, especially for science. 00:15:33.788 --> 00:15:44.704 So I decided to move to Europe and then I started searching for positions around Europe and then, well, I found this position in Estonia. 00:15:44.704 --> 00:15:49.221 That pretty much was what I liked to do, and I was good at doing so. 00:15:49.221 --> 00:16:06.105 By a process synthetic biology I applied, and then one month later I entered the plane and then I got there, Just had a few times for some Googling to see how Estonia was after the Soviet Union Seemed okay. 00:16:06.105 --> 00:16:17.471 And then now it's been eight years that I'm there and it's a pretty cool place, and before Estonia I would never think about becoming a founder. 00:16:17.471 --> 00:16:19.427 I think it's the bug they have here. 00:16:20.220 --> 00:16:23.831 More unicorns per capita, I think, than any other place in the world. 00:16:23.831 --> 00:16:36.385 The entire population of Estonia is about the same as the city of Milan and I mean, even if I just look at this podcast, I've had, you know, a number of people from Estonia on here. 00:16:36.385 --> 00:16:37.187 Why do you think that? 00:16:37.187 --> 00:16:42.730 So, when you say you know you never would have considered becoming a founder if it weren't for Estonia, why do you think that is? 00:16:43.379 --> 00:16:57.160 So, as I said, like during my whole time just being as a scientist, no one showed me that, besides doing really great science, you can also think and not be afraid to start something, some startup. 00:16:57.160 --> 00:17:56.194 And in Estonia, besides this amazing environment where you can easily just grab a coffee with any other founder or an investor, so people are very open and reachable and the whole government and the universities here. 00:17:56.194 --> 00:17:58.822 They have this structure that fosters this. 00:17:58.822 --> 00:18:03.413 So they bring for example, we were in the university they brought investors. 00:18:03.413 --> 00:18:08.071 Investors talked oh you have a really nice idea, why don't you start a company? 00:18:08.071 --> 00:18:13.062 And then you talk with other founders and then they were like, yes, just open it. 00:18:13.062 --> 00:18:14.226 If you fail, you fail. 00:18:14.226 --> 00:18:14.466 You fail. 00:18:14.487 --> 00:18:20.087 It's investors money, not yours as an investor, I find that terrifying. 00:18:20.087 --> 00:18:21.549 But yeah, I can see why. 00:18:22.771 --> 00:18:29.040 I can see why that's good for founders but, like it gives you the courage because as a scientist, you're so afraid of failing. 00:18:29.040 --> 00:18:32.326 But uh, you just learn not to be afraid. 00:18:32.326 --> 00:18:36.673 It's's some people they have, I don't know, they're in their fifth startup. 00:18:38.134 --> 00:18:56.724 Yeah, I mean, I would imagine that, also, as a scientist, you, like, you need these levels of exactness and perfection or, like you know, these assurances, whereas in the startup world, as you've surely discovered, it's kind of like, I mean, you're, you're just, you know, walking in the dark. 00:18:56.724 --> 00:18:59.676 Every you can see maybe a meter in front of you, and that's it. 00:18:59.876 --> 00:19:16.475 Yeah, definitely, and I think you learn to be bolder, I would say, in this startup community and also the government has several grants, they have several accelerators or they really give support and they really want the startups to be successful here. 00:19:16.836 --> 00:19:20.303 You've talked a lot about on the topic of women in STEM. 00:19:20.303 --> 00:19:35.866 So science, technology, engineering and math, if I remember the acronym correctly and some of the challenges that you faced there, and I came across the term this term, which I now totally love and will use in the future the Scully effect. 00:19:35.866 --> 00:19:40.646 Can you talk a bit about what that is and to what extent you're a product of it? 00:19:41.355 --> 00:19:54.500 Yes, so I'm a very lucky person that when I was like 10 years old or like nine eight person, that when I was like 10 years old or like nine, eight, so I was, I was always like cinema geek addicted girl. 00:19:54.520 --> 00:20:09.730 And then I always felt, even though I was a kid, I always felt there was a lack of strong female characters, so there were not like not many heroes or like they were mostly romantic partners in the movie. 00:20:09.730 --> 00:20:24.309 And then I think it was 93 or 94, we had the DX Files, this TV show where Scully is this FBI agent who has a PhD or two, I don't remember. 00:20:24.309 --> 00:20:38.040 I think she has, I think, two PhDs and she's this scientist that also kicks ass and she's a very strong character and is portrayed by Gillian Anderson and this type of representation. 00:20:38.040 --> 00:20:58.615 Years later, a decade later, there was some study and that after this character, the amount of females going to STEM increased a lot and they saw that this character, Scully, was one that pushed them or encouraged them or made them see the amazing part of STEM and they went. 00:20:58.615 --> 00:21:04.468 That's why this is the Scully effect and I'm a very proud part of it. 00:21:04.468 --> 00:21:08.865 Gillian Anderson, if you ever listen to this podcast, please hug me. 00:21:09.481 --> 00:21:11.136 Oh yeah, she's a regular listener. 00:21:11.136 --> 00:21:15.865 Yeah, I never missed an

episode of it as a kid. 00:21:15.865 --> 00:21:24.176 I totally love the X-Files and if there are any Gen Z listeners, stop watching Friends and start watching the X-Files Much, much better television. 00:21:24.176 --> 00:21:31.561 Yes, you've also been very vocal about the need for startup founders to take care of themselves and protect their mental health. 00:21:31.561 --> 00:21:34.222 Why do you feel the need to speak up about that topic? 00:21:35.057 --> 00:21:55.103 I think most people, and including me in the beginning we think that mental health, like you, have to be strong, like all the time, and like taking care of mental health or saying that you are not feeling okay, I'm feeling overwhelmed, this is a sign of weakness, and it's not. 00:21:55.103 --> 00:22:04.224 It's like you cannot perform well if your mindset is not there as well, if your mental health is not okay. 00:22:04.224 --> 00:22:07.057 And this is not only to founders, I mean to everyone. 00:22:07.057 --> 00:22:11.727 Like, if you're tired, like you cannot push it, just take a break. 00:22:11.727 --> 00:22:16.125 Just if you feel anxious, talk to a therapist. 00:22:16.125 --> 00:22:25.148 Because it's very common you have so much to do like so much to achieve, so much pressure everywhere to succeed. 00:22:25.994 --> 00:22:40.658 And I think in the beginning, for me, the transition to scientist, to like to entrepreneurship it was not my skin, so this process of transitioning to this skin was super, brought me a lot of anxiety. 00:22:40.658 --> 00:22:45.495 Until my best friend she told me look, you're not normal, go talk to a therapist. 00:22:45.495 --> 00:22:46.278 You should. 00:22:46.278 --> 00:22:51.438 You're overworked, you're overly tired, you're not like laughing anymore. 00:22:51.438 --> 00:22:57.937 And then it's been two years, I'm in therapy and I also have been learning to put boundaries. 00:22:57.937 --> 00:23:00.422 So I try every day. 00:23:00.422 --> 00:23:06.437 I work from eight in the morning to six, then I stop, I close my computer. 00:23:06.437 --> 00:23:07.079 It doesn't matter. 00:23:07.079 --> 00:23:14.990 Of course there are some days that you actually need, but I try to make it a really rare exception, or weekends. 00:23:14.990 --> 00:23:22.848 I do not work anymore unless it's like a matter of life or death, but I think it's good to put boundaries. 00:23:23.355 --> 00:23:26.850 I think that's really good advice for founders who are listening as well. 00:23:26.850 --> 00:23:45.458 And culturally, we do ourselves no favors because, whether it's social media or LinkedIn or, I don't know, fast Company and Wired, you kind of see these like you know, everyone is making it look so easy and it's kind of like oh, I had this idea, I started it and now I'm a billionaire and you know that's, of course, not the usual way of things. 00:23:45.458 --> 00:24:06.023 So being able to talk frankly and honestly, founder to founder out there, I think is really important, and I always tell you know I'm a founder by background and I always tell founders to like make sure you have a community of other founders that you can talk to and that you can be open to, because it's not, you know, your friends might not understand, your partner or family might not understand your like. 00:24:06.023 --> 00:24:09.132 Vc investors are probably not the people to talk to about this. 00:24:09.132 --> 00:24:16.819 It's other founders who have been through it, who are going through it, who are the best kind of sounding boards and friends to talk with this stuff about. 00:24:17.781 --> 00:24:21.048 You have recently closed a round at IO, a funding round. 00:24:21.048 --> 00:24:22.397 Congratulations on that. 00:24:22.397 --> 00:24:25.023 What does the year ahead look like? 00:24:25.023 --> 00:24:25.765 Are you building up? 00:24:25.765 --> 00:24:26.487 Are you hiring? 00:24:26.487 --> 00:24:27.456 What are you going to spend the money on? 00:24:28.318 --> 00:24:32.307 I always tell investors this joke that I'm going to run away to Brazil with their money. 00:24:32.307 --> 00:24:35.500 Now they're not very happy. 00:24:35.500 --> 00:24:47.001 Too late now, yeah, and Netflix is going to make a documentary about me no, but I seriously speaking now. 00:24:47.001 --> 00:24:49.387 So I think now it's time. 00:24:49.387 --> 00:25:02.451 We have been growing exponentially, but now I think it's this inflection point where we really need to be like this hog stick and outperform the first three years. 00:25:03.355 --> 00:25:10.423 So with this round, we have a two year runaway and very bold plans. 00:25:10.423 --> 00:25:20.803 So one of them is to be in the market, at least for cosmetics, so regulatory barriers are more feasible. 00:25:20.803 --> 00:25:34.430 But we also, by the end of 2026, we want to have all the permits for this novel food in different countries and to start having so we can start actually licensing our technology. 00:25:34.430 --> 00:25:41.394 So basically, this is our goals and, of course, like we'll fundraise in two years. 00:25:41.394 --> 00:25:52.004 So, investors, please let's start flirting, and we're always interested in bright people and also, like, excited about this topic. 00:25:52.004 --> 00:26:01.784 So if also you are interested in working at IO, please also reach us and even if we don't have a position right now, we will call back. 00:26:02.305 --> 00:26:02.768 That's great. 00:26:02.768 --> 00:26:10.656 So investors with long attention spans, bright people who are interested in the space, and probably potential customers as well, should reach out to you. 00:26:10.656 --> 00:26:15.775 Yes, great, I'll, as always, put your contact information in the show notes. 00:26:15.775 --> 00:26:17.339 Nemailla, it's super cool what you're doing. 00:26:17.339 --> 00:26:18.522 Thanks a lot for talking today. 00:26:18.863 --> 00:26:20.516 Yeah, thanks a lot, it was a pleasure. 00:26:22.339 --> 00:26:24.685 Thanks for listening to another Climate Tech Podcast. 00:26:24.685 --> 00:26:28.478 It would mean a lot if you would subscribe, rate and share this podcast. 00:26:28.478 --> 00:26:35.589 Get in touch anytime with tips and guest recommendations at hello at climatetechpodcom. 00:26:35.589 --> 00:26:38.923 Find me, ryan Grant Little, on LinkedIn. 00:26:38.923 --> 00:26:41.601 I'll be back with another episode next week. 00:26:41.601 --> 00:26:42.704 Bye for now.