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Welcome to The Shed.
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One ordinary man,
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extraordinary conversations.
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Let's go,
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let's go.
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Welcome to The Shed.
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Where the real talk lands, an ordinary man with a mic
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in his hands. Oxygen flowing, but I'm still aiming high.
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Shit Happens Podcast, here we're 5 miles high.
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Truth over noise, let's open that door.
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Every episode leaves you wanting one more. From faith to
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space and everything in between, pull up a chair,
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you know what I mean.
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Welcome back to An Ordinary Man Podcast, Shit Happens. It is Tuesday
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night. I hope everybody's well. It's freezing, it's cold.
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It's been an odd day. It's been really warm during the day and
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it is freezing tonight. I am suffering
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for my heart in the shed.
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I think I ventilated it too well for the summer
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because come the winter it's freezing.
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Now I haven't even, uh, publicized what I'm gonna be talking about tonight.
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And up until about an hour ago, I wasn't that sure either.
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But, um, right, normally,
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right, if somebody
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mentions a ranch in America, now what
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do you think? You think, you think cowboys, horses, enormous hats,
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and a bloke called Chuck who hasn't spoken to his wife since 1987.
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But Tonight we're heading to a ranch where the cattle allegedly
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disappear, enormous wolves refuse to die,
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strange lights appear in the sky, and mysterious creatures apparently
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wander around after dark. Now,
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if that wasn't enough, the American government somehow
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became involved because apparently when somebody reports
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a strange noise coming from the cowshed The obvious response
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is to investigate it with millions of dollars of taxpayers'
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money. Now, what am I talking
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about? I am of course talking to
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you about Skinwalker Ranch.
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Yep, you heard right, Skinwalker Ranch. Now,
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before we start, a little disclaimer.
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I am fascinated by UFOs. Strange phenomena,
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unexplained events, and the possibility that
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there's considerably more going on in our universe than we will
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ever understand. But I also believe in evidence,
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and there's a rather substantial difference between something being unexplained
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and something being extraterrestrial. Like,
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for example, right, if I hear a strange noise coming from the shed at 3
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in the morning It could be an alien attempting to establish first contact,
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or it could be a mouse. And experience suggests that the mouse is
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the more likely. But today, or tonight even,
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because I'm, I'm actually recording this— what time is it?
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It's 10 past 8 nearly. I'm going to record this
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and put it straight out, but we're going to investigate Skinwalker
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Ranch. We'll look at the history, some of the extraordinary stories,
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the scientists who investigated it, the government money,
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and the evidence. And by the end of it, we'll try and answer one simple
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question. What on earth is going on at
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Skinwalker Ranch? Or perhaps more
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accurately, what isn't going
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on?
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So the story takes us to northeastern Utah in
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the United States. Skinwalker Ranch is situated
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in the Uintah Basin,
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which is a remote region surrounded by spectacular mountains.
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And dramatic landscapes. The property covers
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approximately 512 acres.
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It's isolated, it's rural,
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and it's the sort of place where you could probably
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spend an entire afternoon without seeing another
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human being, which depending on
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your personality sounds absolutely wonderful Or like
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the opening scene of a horror film. Now, the surrounding region has
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a long history of reported UFO sightings,
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but the ranch itself became internationally famous during the
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1990s. In 1994,
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Terry and Gwen Sherman moved onto the property with
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their children. The intent was to raise cattle. Nothing particularly
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unusual about that given it was a ranch.
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They weren't paranormal investigators, television personalities,
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or people attempting to establish diplomatic relations with
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Alpha Centauri. They were ranchers.
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But according to their later accounts,
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strange things began happening.
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And when I say strange, I don't mean somebody leaving the gate open or
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finding a cow in the kitchen,
Load full transcript
although to be fair,
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that would be quite strange. I'm talking about unexplained lights,
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unusual objects in the sky, missing cattle,
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strange creatures, and reports of activity that
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appear to defy conventional explanation,
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and one particularly disturbing account involved an
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enormous wolf. That's right,
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an enormous wolf. And this is
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where things start getting interesting.
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So according to the story, shortly after the family arrived, an unusually
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large wolf approached the ranch. Now,
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wolves aren't exactly unusual in the broader American wilderness,
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but this particular animal was reportedly enormous.
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The animal apparently approached the family and the cattle without
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showing any obvious fear. Now, initially it seemed relatively calm,
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but then according to the account, it attacked a calf.
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Terry Sherman reportedly attempted to stop the animal, and when
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that failed, he allegedly fired at it several
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times. And here's the extraordinary part: according
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to the story, the bullets appeared to have little or no
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effect. The wolf eventually wandered away.
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Now, I don't know about you, but if I encountered an enormous wolf, fired several
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shots at it, and the animal simply looked at me as though I'd interrupted its
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lunch, My immediate thought would be, let's get this house
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on the market. Let's move,
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preferably to another state. But let's examine
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this properly. The story is certainly dramatic. However, again,
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this is a phrase I always come out with, and I'm sure it does your
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head in. There's no independently verified physical evidence
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establishing that the animal was supernatural.
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Invulnerable to bullets or anything other than an
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unusually large predator. And perhaps
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Mr. Sherman was an awful shot. We're basically relying
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on accounts of what allegedly happened. Now, an eyewitness testimony,
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however sincerely it might be given, isn't the
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same as scientific proof. Nevertheless, the wolf
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became one of the defining stories associated with Skinwalker
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Ranch, and it was apparently only the beginning.
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Now,
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the Sherman family also reported a series of disturbing incidents involving
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their livestock. Some cattle allegedly
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disappeared. Others were reportedly discovered dead with
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unusual injuries. There were claims of precise cuts,
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missing tissue, and an apparent absence of
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blood. Now, cattle mutilations have
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been reported across parts of the States for decades, and the theories
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surrounding them are almost as strange as the incidents themselves.
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Some people suspect predators and scavengers,
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others just suggest natural decomposition, which can
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create injuries that appear surprisingly precise. And then inevitably
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we arrive at aliens, because apparently after traveling
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several million light years across the universe,
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E.T. has developed an explicable fascination with
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the internal organs of American cows.
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Now, I mean, seriously, come on. You've mastered interstellar
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travel. You've developed technology capable of crossing the galaxy.
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You arrive on Earth and your first thought is,
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I wonder what that cow's liver looks like.
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Personally, if it was me, I'd go to the Giant's Causeway, or perhaps I'd
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just order a decent Chinese takeaway, but that's just me. Now, There's an important point
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here. Unusual livestock deaths are real events that deserve
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investigation. However, determining the cause
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requires proper veterinary examination, tissue analysis,
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environmental evidence, and documented findings. A photograph
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of an injured animal, however disturbing, cannot establish extraterrestrial
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involvement.
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And despite the extraordinary stories associated with Skinwalker
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Ranch, Publicly available evidence has not demonstrated
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that aliens were responsible for the cattle deaths,
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but the Shermans weren't simply reporting strange things happening to their
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animals. They were also reporting things happening
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in the sky.
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So according to accounts published in 1996,
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the Sherman family witnessed several different types of UFO.
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Now, these include strange lights, unusual aerial objects,
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and perhaps most remarkably, what appeared to be
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circular openings suspended in mid-air.
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Now, some descriptions suggested that lights or objects emerged
from these
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openings. Now we're entering territory that sounds
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less like a cattle ranch and more like an episode of Doctor Who.
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The idea of portals is fascinating.
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If such things existed, they could potentially transform our
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understanding of physics. But here's the difficulty. Let's go back to
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this often repeated phrase: There is no independently verified
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evidence demonstrating that portals opened
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above Skinwalker Ranch. And there is an enormous
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difference between observing an unusual light and establishing that
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it represents a doorway into another dimension.
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Now, that's not to suggest witnesses necessarily invented their experiences.
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People can genuinely observe things they cannot identify.
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I mean, I once saw my grandson getting washed at the sink.
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I thought, can't be right. But atmospheric conditions,
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distant aircraft, astronomical objects, and unusual lightning
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can all produce surprising effects. But sometimes
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an observation simply remains unidentified because there
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isn't enough information to reach a conclusion.
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And that brings us to something particularly interesting, right? The ranch attracted
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the attention of a millionaire who decided
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to investigate it properly. Well,
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or at least attempt to. In 1996,
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the Sherman family sold the ranch to Robert Bigelow.
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Now, Bigelow wasn't your average property developer. He was
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a wealthy businessman with a serious interest in aerospace technology,
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UFOs, and unexplained phenomena.
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He also founded the National Institute for Discovery Science, usually known
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as NIDS. And unlike somebody sitting
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in their garden with a pair of binoculars hoping to spot a flying saucer,
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Bigelow had considerable resources. I mean, he could employ
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researchers, He could install monitoring equipment, he could
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organize investigations, and he could afford to spend
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substantial amounts of money attempting to understand what was
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happening. Which incidentally is precisely what I'd
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do if I won the lottery. Although I have to be honest, the way things
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are going, I'd probably buy a slightly bigger shed first. But Bigelow purchased
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the ranch for approximately $200,000.
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Which isn't a lot of money really for the size of that ranch. He then
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established a research operation on the property.
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Scientists and other specialists investigated reported
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anomalies. Surveillance equipment was installed,
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researchers monitored the area, and over the following years numerous
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unusual experiences were reported.
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But here's where things become particularly important. Despite years of investigation
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the researchers did not produce convincing, independently verifiable
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physical evidence demonstrating the reported
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phenomena were supernatural or from ET.
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Now, that doesn't automatically mean every witness was mistaken,
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but it does mean the extraordinary claims remained
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unproven. Now, and this raises an obvious question: if
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strange things were happening so frequently why was it apparently so
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difficult to record them conclusively?
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I mean, were the incidents unpredictable? Were the instruments inadequate?
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Were ordinary events being misinterpreted? Or was
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something else happening? And these questions remain central to
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the Skinwalker Ranch mystery.
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Now, this is the part of the story that really caught
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my attention, because we've gone from a family reporting strange
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events on their cattle ranch to a wealthy businessman investigating
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UFOs, and now we're bringing in the
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American government. You really couldn't make this up,
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except unlike the enormous bulletproof wolf, this part
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has a substantial documentary trail. In the late
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2000s, the US Defense Intelligence Agency became
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involved in a program called the Advanced Aerospace Weapon
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System Applications Program,
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or AAWSAP for short, because apparently
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the American government cannot investigate anything without giving it
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a name that sounds like somebody has fallen asleep on the keyboard. Now, the program
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was associated with approximately $22 million
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dollars in funding,
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and a company connected to Robert Bigelow, the owner, received the
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research contract. Brown envelopes and all that sort of stuff.
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Now, it's important to clarify something. The program was
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formally concerned with advanced aerospace threats
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and technologies. It wasn't simply
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a $22 million investigation into whether werewolves
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were eating cows in Utah. However, subsequent government
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reviews confirmed that work associated with the program included
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investigations into alleged paranormal activity at
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Bigelow's property. And that is
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remarkable because it means the relationship between
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Skinwalker Ranch and government-funded research wasn't
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simply invented for television. There really was a connection.
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Now, but does that mean that the Pentagon confirmed aliens,
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portals, or supernatural creatures? No, it doesn't.
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In fact, a 2024 report from the Pentagon's All-Domain—
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here we go— All-Domain Anomaly Resolution
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Office, known as AARO, stated it had
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found no verified evidence of ET technology.
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And the report also criticized aspects of
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the earlier program. Now, that's an important distinction. Government interest,
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uh, is evidence that somebody considered a subject
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worth investigating, right?
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Why would the government get involved? Why would they put $22 million into this?
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But it isn't proof that the extraordinary claims were true,
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because after all, governments investigate all sorts of things.
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Now, some investigations produce major discoveries. Others produce expensive
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reports explaining why the original idea wasn't
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particularly sensible, and occasionally, I suspect,
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they produce reports explaining why somebody shouldn't have been
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given $22 million in the first place.
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Now, in 2016, businessman Brandon Fugal
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acquired Skinwalker Ranch, and the
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property subsequently became the subject of the television series The
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Secret of Skinwalker Ranch. Now, the program follows investigators
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attempting to understand unusual phenomena reported
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on the property. I have to say, from an entertainment perspective,
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it has almost everything— strange lights,
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electronic equipment behaving unexpectedly, radiation concerns,
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underground investigations, rockets, drones,
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and grown men looking extremely concerned at computer screens.
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It's like somebody combined The X-Files,
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Time Team, an episode of Top Gear.
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But now it's a serious question beneath the entertainment. How do we distinguish
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genuine scientific investigation from television drama?
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Because science requires repeatable observations,
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reliable measurements— here we go again,
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independent verification— and the ability
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to test alternative explanations.
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Television, on the other hand, requires something interesting to happen
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before the ad break, and those 2 objectives aren't always compatible.
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For example, suppose a drone loses its GPS signal. Right,
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well, that's interesting, but before concluding that an interdimensional
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portal has interfered with the equipment, we'd need to investigate
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ordinary possibilities: signal interference, equipment faults,
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software errors, environmental conditions,
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and perhaps the possibility that somebody has simply forgotten to charge the batteries,
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which, speaking from personal experience, is considerably more common than
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an alien invasion. Now, none of this means the investigators are necessarily dishonest.
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It simply means unusual observations require careful
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analysis before extraordinary conclusions can
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be justified. Now we need to examine
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the name itself. I mean, I'd heard of a skinwalker, the Skinwalker
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Ranch, years ago and thought, what? I mean, that sounds— Skinwalker
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Ranch, but what exactly is a skinwalker?
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Well, the term comes from Navajo traditions involving
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beliefs about harmful witchcraft and people said to possess
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the ability to take animal forms. That's what a skinwalker
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is. These traditions are culturally significant, and they
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shouldn't simply be treated as Hollywood monster stories.
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And here's something worth remembering: Skinwalker Ranch is located
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in Utah, near the Ute tribal lands.
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The Navajo Nation is situated considerably farther
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south, and the connection between the ranch and
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the skinwalker tradition is more complicated than some paranormal
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TV programs might suggest. There's no reliable
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historical evidence establishing that the supernatural
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curse was placed upon the property. The stories surrounding the
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ranch have developed over time, combining local folklore,
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witness accounts,
paranormal investigations, and of course,
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modern entertainment. And that's interesting in itself,
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because once a location develops a reputation for strange activity,
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people may begin interpreting ordinary events a
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hell of a lot differently. A strange noise becomes a possible
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creature. An unfamiliar light becomes a
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UFO. A malfunctioning electronic
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device becomes evidence of an invisible force.
22:24.657 --> 22:28.657
And before long, even the local wildlife probably starts wondering
22:29.235 --> 22:32.609
what on earth is going on. But we shouldn't
22:33.109 --> 22:35.646
dismiss everything simply because the location has a reputation.
22:36.401 --> 22:39.759
The proper approach is to examine each claim individually.
22:40.498 --> 22:43.293
What happened? Who witnessed it? Was it recorded?
22:44.129 --> 22:48.499
Can it be independently verified? And what ordinary
22:48.531 --> 22:50.973
explanations have been considered?
22:51.929 --> 22:55.619
Those are the questions that matter, and after all these years,
22:56.054 --> 22:59.356
Skinwalker Ranch remains a fascinating mystery,
23:00.926 --> 23:03.245
but perhaps not quite in the way some people imagine.
23:04.243 --> 23:07.335
We have genuine historical newspaper reports,
23:08.107 --> 23:11.704
we have named witnesses, we have documented investigations,
23:12.302 --> 23:15.341
we have wealthy individuals spending substantial amounts of money,
23:16.504 --> 23:19.345
we have connections to government-funded research,
23:20.421 --> 23:24.322
which should ring alarm bells. And we have a television program that continues
23:24.419 --> 23:28.288
to attract their attention and interest. Those things
23:28.788 --> 23:31.949
are all real, but the evidence for supernatural creatures,
23:32.848 --> 23:37.520
ET visitors, and interdimensional portals remains
23:38.020 --> 23:41.582
entirely unconvincing. And I think that's where the most interesting
23:41.598 --> 23:44.873
questions begin. Why did the Sherman family report such
23:45.066 --> 23:49.216
extraordinary experiences? I mean, what did Bigelow's researchers
23:49.409 --> 23:53.080
actually observe? Why— and this is the important
23:53.113 --> 23:55.947
one— why did the government become interested?
23:57.417 --> 24:00.164
Because I'll tell you something now, whenever the government becomes interested,
24:01.635 --> 24:05.439
you need to start looking into it. But why, after decades
24:05.455 --> 24:08.621
of investigation, has the ranch produced so little
24:09.216 --> 24:12.880
independently verified evidence of the extraordinary
24:12.899 --> 24:14.313
phenomena attributed to it?
24:16.489 --> 24:21.354
And it got me to mind Rob, if he's listening. Rob watches that— is it
24:21.611 --> 24:25.096
Oak Island or something? He says he's hooked. They never
24:25.596 --> 24:28.854
find anything. They're searching this island for the lost gold or something like
24:29.354 --> 24:32.997
that. I don't know how many— it might have been 10, 11, 12, 13 series.
24:33.189 --> 24:36.963
They never find anything, but he's hooked. He's hooked on it.
24:38.408 --> 24:40.978
They might find a bit of wood and get very excited, or they might find
24:41.042 --> 24:44.513
an old piece of metal and all, all hell breaks
24:45.013 --> 24:47.353
loose, but they never actually find any gold.
24:49.630 --> 24:52.888
So perhaps with Skinwalker Ranch, perhaps some events
24:52.954 --> 24:55.690
were misunderstood. You know what it's like,
24:55.852 --> 24:59.072
stories become exaggerated. And perhaps
24:59.572 --> 25:02.016
certain incidents remain genuinely unexplained.
25:03.502 --> 25:07.858
And perhaps the most extraordinary thing about Skinwalker Ranch is how A
25:07.922 --> 25:11.626
remote cattle property became one of the most
25:12.126 --> 25:14.572
famous paranormal locations on Earth.
25:16.617 --> 25:20.596
But there's one thing we should always remember: unexplained doesn't
25:21.096 --> 25:22.353
mean inexplicable.
25:24.806 --> 25:28.335
It simply means we haven't established an explanation. Well,
25:29.436 --> 25:32.286
at least not yet. So there you have it,
25:32.302 --> 25:35.886
Skinwalker Ranch. It is— well, it used to be on TV.
25:36.175 --> 25:38.037
I don't know whether it's still on TV. I think it was on— it was
25:38.102 --> 25:41.554
a Discovery Channel or something daft like that. There used to be a TV program
25:42.054 --> 25:45.487
about Skinwalker Ranch where they'll go off and do all these investigations and look at
25:45.744 --> 25:49.517
funny electric equipment and stare at each other and go, that's not
25:50.017 --> 25:53.997
right. But it is a place where enormous wolves allegedly ignore
25:54.013 --> 25:58.123
bullets, cattle disappear, mysterious lights
25:58.171 --> 26:02.262
illuminate the night sky. And the American government somehow
26:02.862 --> 26:05.928
ends up investigating paranormal claims.
26:07.900 --> 26:11.271
So what have we learned? Well, for a start, if I ever decide to
26:11.320 --> 26:14.998
buy a cattle ranch in Utah, I'd be checking the property history
26:15.355 --> 26:19.002
very, very carefully. I'd also be
26:19.502 --> 26:23.181
asking whether the sale includes any portals, unidentified flying objects,
26:23.835 --> 26:27.598
or unusually aggressive wildlife. Because those
26:27.646 --> 26:30.903
sound like things the estate agent really ought to have
26:30.919 --> 26:34.417
mentioned to the Shermans. But joking aside,
26:35.150 --> 26:39.176
Skinwalker Ranch does raise some fascinating questions about the relationship
26:39.676 --> 26:42.893
between eyewitness testimony, scientific investigation,
26:43.327 --> 26:46.669
folklore, and belief. And it
26:46.685 --> 26:50.782
reminds us that sometimes the most interesting part of a mystery isn't
26:50.814 --> 26:55.177
necessarily the
proposed explanation. It's how the
26:55.677 --> 26:57.856
mystery developed in the first place.
26:59.937 --> 27:03.286
Personally, well, you have to remain open-minded about
27:03.786 --> 27:05.729
the possibility of life elsewhere in this universe.
27:07.234 --> 27:10.677
Given the extraordinary size of the cosmos, I find it
27:10.709 --> 27:14.310
difficult to believe we're necessarily the only intelligent
27:14.342 --> 27:19.034
beings anywhere. But believing extraterrestrial
27:19.534 --> 27:23.134
life might exist is one thing. Believing it's traveled across the universe to
27:23.634 --> 27:25.774
interfere with American cattle is quite another.
27:27.326 --> 27:30.554
And until somebody produces— it's the same old
27:31.054 --> 27:34.217
thing— reliable, independently verifiable evidence,
27:35.346 --> 27:38.377
I have to keep my feet firmly on the ground, preferably inside this shed,
27:38.833 --> 27:42.134
even though it's bloody freezing. That's the strangest thing I'm
27:42.150 --> 27:45.483
likely to encounter is a missing paintbrush, a guitar
27:45.983 --> 27:50.370
that's mysteriously gone out of tune, or another parcel arriving that
27:50.870 --> 27:52.242
I apparently forgot I'd ordered.
27:55.716 --> 27:59.425
Although judging by recent events, that last one might require a government investigation of
28:04.004 --> 28:07.137
Anyway, that was Skinwalker Ranch.
28:08.299 --> 28:11.919
There is a bit more to it actually, Um, but I
28:12.419 --> 28:15.550
didn't want to make this episode too long. There is, there is actually quite a
28:16.050 --> 28:19.371
bit to Skinwalker Ranch. Maybe I'll do a part 2 and
28:19.871 --> 28:23.411
actually go into some of the things, the really
28:23.686 --> 28:27.731
weird things that have gone on that are
28:28.231 --> 28:30.571
just simply unexplainable, but they're very, very weird.
28:31.507 --> 28:34.606
And why, why in that particular place in Utah?
28:36.803 --> 28:40.322
These are the questions we ask, right? Before I go, um, I'm gonna
28:40.822 --> 28:43.006
have a bit of a rant, right? I've ranted about this before. I've got something
28:43.070 --> 28:46.415
for sale on Facebook Marketplace, right? It's £35.
28:46.545 --> 28:50.145
It's, it's a bargain. Why do people message
28:50.645 --> 28:54.440
you and say, uh, would you take £25 cash?
28:56.496 --> 28:57.601
Of course I'm going to take cash.
28:59.830 --> 29:02.623
I've got to take £25 cash. It's up for £35.
29:04.561 --> 29:08.159
Cash? No, I'll tell you what, mate, give me 30 chocolate
29:08.175 --> 29:11.901
buttons and you can have it. I do my
29:12.045 --> 29:15.499
heading and then somebody said they'll be out such and such, such and such a
29:15.999 --> 29:19.177
time to have a look at this thing, so I made
29:19.677 --> 29:22.485
a point of staying in. Did they turn up? No, they didn't. That annoys the
29:22.985 --> 29:26.757
life out of me. What can you do? Anyway, it's Tuesday night,
29:26.789 --> 29:29.311
it's freezing in the shed here. I don't want to hang about too long because
29:32.914 --> 29:36.802
freezing. Have a good week. I'm back on Friday. I have no idea what I'm
29:36.834 --> 29:40.558
going to do on Friday. If you want anything done, send me a message like
29:41.058 --> 29:41.923
me old mate Dodge did.
29:44.574 --> 29:46.116
Um, and that's how we end up Lord looking.
29:49.430 --> 29:52.469
Anyway, take care of yourselves. Have a good week. Stay safe. And we'll see you
29:52.485 --> 29:55.004
back again on, um, Friday. Bye-bye.
29:55.784 --> 29:58.971
Oxygen flowing, but I'm still aiming high. Shit Happens
29:59.003 --> 30:02.351
Podcast, yeah, we're 5 miles high. Truth over noise,
30:02.705 --> 30:05.855
let's open that door. Every episode leaves
30:06.355 --> 30:09.867
you wanting one more. Stories, laughs, and lessons
30:10.206 --> 30:11.225
every time we begin.
30:13.700 --> 30:16.965
Come on inside, welcome in.