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ShortyForeal: All right, welcome back everyone to After Hours Let's Talk, the place where the conversations go deeper than the surface level and we sit with stories that most people's grove have. Tonight's episode is about strength, but not the kind that performs, the kind that adapts, the kind that endures, the kind that rebuilds identity in a world that doesn't always make room for it. Tonight, I'm honored to sit down with Jenna Udenberg. And we're talking about what it truly means to navigate life's disabilities while living with one. So you guys grab a seat, grab something to drink, and let's dive deep into this conversation. But first, we're going to go into our What's On Your Mind Tonight. And our listener wrote in, I was recently diagnosed with a chronic illness and I feel like I lost the life I was building. I don't recognize myself anymore. So Jenna, what would you like to say to the listener about?
Jenna Udenberg: Wow, That's tough, right? As somebody who's been there, but I was there as a kid. I would say allow yourself to, to mourn what you thought was going to be or what, you'd been planning, right? I'm a type A planner, so not quite sure how the listeners personality type, but if they're, they're like me, sometimes I can hit differently depending on how you're, you're made up. but I would say, you know, sometimes at least for me, the path that I had planned. isn't the best plan. So even though that can be heart wrenching and it can be identity, you know, for me in some of my situations, I've had my identity ripped away, but only for things to be brought back so much stronger. So I guess I would say, like I said, you know, allow yourself to grieve, find your strong people, find your your ride or dies, find your people that are going to be there no matter what. Invest in them, invest in yourself. Allow yourself to have junky days, right?
ShortyForeal: Mm-hmm.
Jenna Udenberg: Find ways that are good self care and ways that are ways of building into your body now, right? Like it's a new body. It's a new way of finding your strength. It's a new way of finding your energy. It's a new way of kind of pacing yourself too. And I stink at that. So learn from me of... of, you know, find the things that are truly your joy givers, find the things that are truly worth your time and energy, and let your yes be a heck yes. And if there's anything that you're questioning, then it's obviously a no. So don't invest in that, but invest in yourself and invest in your self care. And have grace for yourself. Allow yourself grace.
ShortyForeal: Absolutely. I mean, that's very much well said, you know. I guess all I can really add to that, you know, is that... You made a really good point. know, what we usually plan for us, our lives to go, the things that we plan out, it never typically goes that way. And most times it's for the best, you know? So I would say always embrace things. It may seem like it's something very difficult, but this may be an experience that you're able to navigate through and really learn something. and learn something more about yourself that you really didn't know was there. You may have a strength there that you didn't even realize you had, but sometimes it takes difficult situations to bring out the best in us. So with that being said, I want to welcome you and Jenna to the After Hours Lounge. are glad to have you here. Would you mind telling our listeners just a little bit more about yourself and who you are?
Jenna Udenberg: Yeah, thanks for having me. So I am a disability activist and advocate and accessibility educator. I'm the founder of Above and Beyond With You, which is a nonprofit working to increase accessibility and inclusion in Minnesota and beyond. I am a retired music educator of 19 years. I'm a published author of my memoir within my spokes and a columnist where I write in our local newspaper. the column local view from four foot two. I am a manual wheelchair user for those needing a visual ID. I have short brown hair. I've got black headphones on, eyeglasses, a white t-shirt with the logo of Above and Beyond with you on it. And yeah, so I've been a manual wheelchair user since age eight and I've had juvenile rheumatoid arthritis or juvenile idiopathic arthritis since age seven. And so have really lived the wheelie life and love sharing disability community and culture wherever I can. And just asking curious questions and getting to know more people because we're all impacted by disability, whether we realize it or not or whether we like it or not. So yeah, I'm
ShortyForeal: and
Jenna Udenberg: excited to be here and chat more.
ShortyForeal: Nice. Well, thank you so much for being here with us. So we're going to jump into this conversation with you having both of those and you being in a wheelchair for most of your life, you said. how did that really like shape your growing up? Like as a child and just growing up into adulthood, How did it shape who you are today? Like how were you able to deal with those things? Especially being as young as you were having to go into that.
Jenna Udenberg: Yeah. you know, I say a lot that I'm very thankful that I became disabled at such a young age because I just don't, you know, when you're a kid, you don't know any different, right? So, of course I wasn't a fan of all the pain. wasn't a fan of all the barriers, growing up in rural Minnesota in the late eighties, when I was first diagnosed. you know, super thankful for my supportive family and my parents being like awesome and my mom being a homemaker and making their place a safe place for me and a safe place for all my friends to be because, you know, even in 2026, there's not a lot of my friends or family's houses that are accessible. So my parents house really became like the whole hub of not only where my birthday parties were, but some of even my friends celebrations because I simply couldn't. get into the hotels or get into the restaurants or get into my
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friend's houses. So, I mean, if you're to compare my life to a non disabled person growing up at the same time, yeah, of course, our story looks very different, right? But comparison can be really detrimental and not a good tool to use in our in our world. And again, it's comparing apples to oranges, right?
ShortyForeal: Okay.
Jenna Udenberg: And so, you know, I don't know any different, but I also know that My disability has also been a gift because I've learned deeper life lessons earlier on. I've, I had to learn at a very young age how to be with adults, you know, talking
ShortyForeal: Right.
Jenna Udenberg: adult speak, talking medical speak, self advocating, all the stuff. And was it always easy? Absolutely not. Was it always kind or good or helpful? Absolutely not. Was there childhood trauma and medical trauma? sure before that was even like a known labeled thing, right?
ShortyForeal: The brain is great.
Jenna Udenberg: And it's so weird to me now that I'm an activist advocate world to be like, I was disabled three years before the Americans with Disabilities Act was even passed. Like, I'm old. But, you know, it's like,
ShortyForeal: Thank you.
Jenna Udenberg: you just don't know any different, right? So you just
ShortyForeal: Great.
Jenna Udenberg: live the life that you're given and you try to make lemonade out of lemons, and even though that's a very ableist saying in some ways, it's kind of been what I've done with life. And so now I would say in my 40s, when I have less of a filter, it's
ShortyForeal: Yeah.
Jenna Udenberg: more like, you know, sometimes those lemons just get chucked back at the people, right? Like, why is it my job to turn your
ShortyForeal: they do.
Jenna Udenberg: lemons into lemonade? Like take care of your own lemons. Not my job.
ShortyForeal: Right.
Jenna Udenberg: Not my monkey, not my circus. Do your job.
ShortyForeal: Right. Absolutely. And you what, you said one thing that I did notice and I see still even today, know, when children are faced with having a disability at such a young age, you know, they are thrown into a position where they do have to kind of grow up intellectually to understand what's going on with themselves. and the things that they need to do to help themselves and continue to stay healthy and what not to do and you know all of those things which is something that most kids aren't have to deal with you know when they don't have any type of illnesses or disabilities because it also happens with people that have chronic illnesses you know we have children. that have, you know, diagnosed with cancers and things. So they are thrown into this role where they're, they have to kind of play adult and figure out what's going on. When it came to your friends, you
Jenna Udenberg: Hmm.
ShortyForeal: know, did you find yourself having to explain a lot more about what was going on with you and why you able to do this or that like they were able to.
Jenna Udenberg: Yeah, and I would say a lot of more times it was like strangers, right? So was like
ShortyForeal: and
Jenna Udenberg: older kids that wanted to bully me because they didn't know me. Where I grew up with like great classmates that that to my memory, that was never an issue with my classmates. And I also have that personality type where I could flow in between all the different groups, right? Like I could hang out with the athletes and talk, talk their talk because I liked you know, professional basketball for a while and
ShortyForeal: right.
Jenna Udenberg: WWF wrestling from back in the day, right? And then I could flow
ShortyForeal: Yes!
Jenna Udenberg: over to the academics because I was a book nerd and I, you know, school came easy to me and then I can hang over with the band geeks because hey, I was a band geek and I became a band director, right? And I could flow in between the skaters and the hacky sack players and I'm totally aged myself, but you know,
ShortyForeal: It's okay.
Jenna Udenberg: wore bell bottoms, wore my shirts backwards. Like that was my big thing. Like
ShortyForeal: man.
Jenna Udenberg: they never had logos on the front. All the cool stuff on t-shirts was always in the back. Well, as a wheelchair user, you don't get to see
ShortyForeal: in the back side.
Jenna Udenberg: the cool stuff. So I started wearing shirts backwards. And so,
ShortyForeal: Right.
Jenna Udenberg: you know, you just kind of, you adapt in a lot of different ways and a lot of things that people would never think about because it hasn't crossed over the threshold into their world or their body or their what have you. And so I also now am so in tune with my body and have a lot of different vocabulary, right? And so, you know, even a provider today was like, all right, that's Jenna speak for got it, you know, and it's like, anybody listening to me will understand, but it's like, after, you know, decades, like I've been disabled for 38 years, decades of going to physical therapy three times a week. having somebody ask you, what's your pain level? What smiley face, frowny face, angry face are you at? What's the number? What kind of pain? Is it sharp? it dull? it, you know, so all of those check-ins constantly and non-disabled, non-medically compromised person, especially seven or eight years old,
ShortyForeal: Right.
Jenna Udenberg: they'd like, what? I identify with that frowny face or the crying face or the angry. I don't know. I don't know my emotions. I don't know my pain level. And, you know, so it is just very, very different.
ShortyForeal: Right. That makes it understandable, you know? Well, I know there's a lot of pressure to be inspirational, you know? I feel like when you have a disability, there's more of a need to be, you know, not even a more of a need to be something, but I think that there's this pressure of being able to fit in and being able to have people that understand you around you. even in adulthood. So we today are living in a time where I feel is very dysfunctional and
very, very just out of whack. Right.
Jenna Udenberg: putting it nicely.
ShortyForeal: Cause I have no clue what's happening around these parts anymore. But,
Jenna Udenberg: you
ShortyForeal: you know, we were talking about living with a disability in a disabled society. So I feel like when people start looking at our citizens that have disabilities, I still see even today, it's very hard for me to see people still don't have a good understanding. They still are very like. rude and to people that they see that are different or in a wheelchair or not able to do fully do things that they're able to do. And I feel like there's not enough awareness about it. So you are an advocate for it. And what is the best way that you are able to inform it as you K the The community, the people out here, when it comes to, right,
Jenna Udenberg: Right, the non-disabled folks.
ShortyForeal: you know, I don't know, as weird people. Because I feel like we're weird because it's, you know, it's like, whatever. But how are you able to
Jenna Udenberg: Yeah.
ShortyForeal: educate them in dealing in being around someone that is disabled?
Jenna Udenberg: I think the hardest part is like as a society, we've lost what empathy is. We've lost what curious questions are. We've lost just basic decency and respect. Like, and I don't want to like broad paint that, right? Because
ShortyForeal: you
Jenna Udenberg: there are still amazing pockets of cool folks that just get it. And like, when I hang out with them, I'm like, I just want to be a sponge in your presence because the way that you navigate
ShortyForeal: different.
Jenna Udenberg: difficult conversations and the way you navigate difference and the way you navigate, you know, asking questions without being judgmental, like a lot of that
ShortyForeal: Right.
Jenna Udenberg: is a heart condition, right? A lot of that is
ShortyForeal: Mm-hmm.
Jenna Udenberg: just experience and being in different positions. And a lot of times when I'm working with folks, it's like, what is the insecurity in yourself that is
ShortyForeal: Mm-hmm.
Jenna Udenberg: showing up? when you're feeling that awkwardness or that weirdness or that unsettled. And I've had
ShortyForeal: for a
Jenna Udenberg: to confront that myself in my own community leadership levels and courses and personal coaching and life coaching and training and that kind of stuff. You know, because my biggest thing is I never want to hurt somebody. I've been so hurt in different aspects of life and in different ways and many times by well-intentioned people, right? Like I
ShortyForeal: All
Jenna Udenberg: haven't had, you know, super horrible calculated injury, harm, trauma, that kind of stuff, right? Like all, almost all of the scars that are on me are from well-intended, well-trained people, but they just missed the mark and they, they left their negative impact.
ShortyForeal: Mm-hmm.
Jenna Udenberg: so I think the biggest thing is like what in yourself is uncomfortable and what in yourself is insecure that makes us say dumb things. Cause I do it all the time. Don't get me wrong, right? Like, whether I'm talking to another disabled folk, whether it's somebody that's also in a chair, so we have some commonality, or maybe it's somebody who is deaf or blind, or all of the different invisible disabilities.
ShortyForeal: Great.
Jenna Udenberg: You never know when you're talking or interacting with somebody who is disabled, because there's so many disabilities
ShortyForeal: Mm-hmm. There are.
Jenna Udenberg: now. And so it just comes down to getting to know each person. And I think too, like, you know, I was always taught to honor my my elders and, and I get that and I'm still all about that. But sometimes when it comes to the older generations, I just want to be like, okay, let's have a moment, right? Like, you know, recently, I was at a professional thing with my robotics team, and I literally had this older gentleman come up to me and be like, just so you know, there's a speed limit here today.
ShortyForeal: I'm
Jenna Udenberg: was like, I'm a 40 year old woman with my middle school kids behind me, just getting here for the day. I don't need to confront your ableism and your thinking
ShortyForeal: Right.
Jenna Udenberg: of being your funny and cutesy, because I'm not a cute little girl in a chair, right? Like, I'm a 45 year old woman
ShortyForeal: It's so true.
Jenna Udenberg: on business. Like, I got my kids at state. Like, I'm in charge of all these things. Like, this is who I am. I've got that professional you know what face on. Like, don't.
ShortyForeal: Yeah.
Jenna Udenberg: don't mess with me because I'm a mama bear right now. And then the guy proceeded
ShortyForeal: array.
Jenna Udenberg: to mess with me again like half hour later. I'm like, read the room, read the body language.
ShortyForeal: Yeah.
Jenna Udenberg: And maybe some people can't because there are different conditions and different disabilities where people can't, you
ShortyForeal: Yeah.
Jenna Udenberg: know, and I get that, right? I have compassion for that. I have understanding for that. And yet, have to talk about these things. So that's why I love
ShortyForeal: We do.
Jenna Udenberg: being in spaces like, you know, here tonight with you, because it's like nobody is gonna know unless we have these hard conversations, unless we ask these hard questions. So.
ShortyForeal: That is true. So what is it that you find yourself still, even today, having to advocate the most for when it comes to people with disabilities?
Jenna Udenberg: How long do we have?
ShortyForeal: Yeah.
Jenna Udenberg: would say the biggest one that I'm enamored with almost on the daily is the lack of accessible travel and what that all means. You know,
ShortyForeal: Mmm.
Jenna Udenberg: again, the same example recently in that taking my robotics team all had a hotel reservation got there. I had already did all my pre disability stuff of calling the front desk and making sure it truly is
wheelchair accessible and making sure the
ShortyForeal: So great.
Jenna Udenberg: you know, Shower was wheel in making sure all the things and I get there and there's not a single toilet in that whole establishment that I can use that's up to current ADA code that I can get a wheelchair next to the toilet in. And it's like, are you kidding me? In 2026, I'm actually in a building that I'm paying to be in and I can't use the restroom. And all I all I need is just my chair to get next to a toilet. I don't need a Hoyer lift. I don't need in ceiling
ShortyForeal: Okay.
Jenna Udenberg: lifts. I don't need and it's fine if people need those things. That's awesome. Right.
ShortyForeal: Right.
Jenna Udenberg: And those needs should also be met. But it's like,
ShortyForeal: they should.
Jenna Udenberg: seriously, I can't stay with my team because you weren't knowledgeable enough about your spaces, to be honest. To say that I
ShortyForeal: Great. Great.
Jenna Udenberg: can't do X, Y and Z and that on your websites, you don't have pictures that promote the actual room. that people are renting, right? That the airline industry in America destroys a hundred wheelchairs a day on average for airline travelers. Like, can
ShortyForeal: That is crazy.
Jenna Udenberg: we figure this out?
ShortyForeal: Right, that is, that's insane. You would think like...
Jenna Udenberg: Right. If all of a sudden like 100 people got their legs broke every day, pretty sure policies would change. But that's...
ShortyForeal: Exactly. And you would think they would change. It's been, you have been disabled for 40 years now. So you would think that it has been some improvements, especially when it comes to accessibility. I, like we've had, we've had such a long time to get that together and have that available. And then with the technology that we have now, there should be really no excuses to why it's not able to be done. all these new buildings that are coming up, all of these new places that are being built. Like, how is it that we're not aware that we have a disabled community? We have people that need these simple accessibilities to get in and out of places easily and safely. I would say that that is one, because that was the question I was getting. That's what I was trying to ask, from Then to now, what is something that is still? not coming to fruition at this point that we are still fighting for and trying to get access to for our disabled communities. So hopefully...
Jenna Udenberg: Yeah. And I think also the miss, I want to say the other thing that I just had is like, I think the other misnomer is like, folks assume because they put a power button on their outside door or they put a ramp. Then awesome. We're a hundred percent accessible. And it's like, well, no, cause like, okay, well in a restaurant people are going to eat and probably use a restroom and maybe sit at a bar. Okay, well, going into City Hall, they're going to probably pay a bill, they're probably going to rent a
space, they're probably going to meet with the mayor, right? Like, like they don't think about beyond getting a disabled person who's using a mobility device in the door. They don't think about ASL
ShortyForeal: right.
Jenna Udenberg: interpretation, they don't think about having materials in Braille, they don't think about having things in larger print. They don't think about having their websites, you know, fully accessible and screen reader capable. you know, so again, as much as all of us so tired of raising awareness, I think you're absolutely right from your question a while ago, know, it was just like, awareness still has to happen. Because there's,
ShortyForeal: brain.
Jenna Udenberg: there's so much.
ShortyForeal: It is. it's at this point, it's just like it and it shouldn't be, and that makes it really sad because there should be so much more progress at this point. Like we have
Jenna Udenberg: Thank
ShortyForeal: discovered, you know, so many things that we've come across, so much technology, so many new things that are able to help, but we're still not doing anything that's able to help.
Jenna Udenberg: Right? Well, and then it's just promoting those that are doing it, right? Like, I don't want to be a Debbie Downer because there are
ShortyForeal: Yeah.
Jenna Udenberg: spaces that are great and amazing, but it's like, how do we promote that and then help other businesses, other entities be role modeled by the people that
ShortyForeal: the
Jenna Udenberg: are getting it and are committed to it and not just being compliant to it?
ShortyForeal: Right. Yeah, we definitely have to do that and get them out there, get them seen because they're doing it the right way. And maybe, you know, some places need help. So being able to promote those places and see the framework for what needs to be done. So that it does. OK, you guys, we're going to go into our quote of the night. Our quote states that disability does not diminish worth, it reveals resilience. So I'm going say that again. Disability does not diminish worth, it reveals resilience. And that is very true. Your disability doesn't make you who you are. doesn't stamp mark your personality or your essence. You make you who you are. A disability will give you, I think, a brighter personality because it will bring out things inside of you that you never knew were there. And probably, probably would have never have even found had you not had to dig deep. So don't let your disability take over who you are. Don't let it shroud or cloud your. beautiful personality and outshine who you are inside. So we want to thank Jenna for her honesty tonight, for helping us understand navigating life with a disability. To anyone listening who feels different, slower, overlooked, or unseen, you are not broken. You are navigating something most people can't even imagine, and that takes power. So you guys. Always protect your peace, honor your past, and remember to take a deep breath, breathe, be kind to yourself, and remember that the night, it always has something to say. And until next time, you guys, we'll see you later.