رونوشت کامل Episode 307: C++ Conferences & Meetups with Jason Turner

then Phil and Timur picked it up for a while. 00:02:36.560 --> 00:02:48.639 Well, for some reason I was thinking that there was another change of hands, but maybe that's just because Phil has like in his history of podcasting, has like three other podcasts, and I'm conflating uh CPP chat and the other the other podcasts and whatnot. 00:02:48.639 --> 00:02:52.159 Anyways, but you've returned you've returned a CPP cast. 00:02:52.159 --> 00:02:58.719 Currently it's a monthly cadence, and you live stream them on YouTube, and then you've also got not live stream. 00:02:58.719 --> 00:03:00.000 Or not live streamed? 00:03:00.159 --> 00:03:00.319 Okay. 00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:00.960 No, no. 00:03:00.960 --> 00:03:04.800 We record them and then publish them on YouTube, not live streamed, just to be clear. 00:03:05.199 --> 00:03:07.360 And you're co you're co-hosting with Mathieu Robert. 00:03:07.599 --> 00:03:09.039 Mathieu Ropaire, we. 00:03:09.520 --> 00:03:09.759 Yes. 00:03:09.759 --> 00:03:15.439 And I listened to the most recent episode that dropped a couple days ago, or at least in my feed, it dropped a couple days ago. 00:03:15.439 --> 00:03:16.960 Anyway, so welcome back, Jason. 00:03:16.960 --> 00:03:22.719 Had you on the podcast before, all the way back, I think around like episode 101 or something like that. 00:03:22.719 --> 00:03:25.120 I'm not sure if you've been on since then. 00:03:25.120 --> 00:03:41.599 I know we were co-located in the same space a year ago at NDC Tech Town, and I I think I had said I wanted to get you in front of the mic, but it just didn't work, which is a real shame because we ended up stranded on the way to was it Kongsberg is the name of the the Yeah, Kongsberg, yeah. 00:03:41.680 --> 00:03:44.560 Although I don't know how the Norwegians pronounce it. 00:03:44.560 --> 00:03:49.759 I think it's different because they do things with their G's, softer G's. 00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:50.479 Anyhow. 00:03:50.479 --> 00:03:59.840 Alright, we apologize to the the Norwegian folks that all just shivered when they heard my pronunciation of the the I won't say it again, the city that hosts NDC Tech Town. 00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:08.719 Anyways, it's been And we also apologi we also apologize to the to the English speakers who just shivered at on this pronunci pronunciation of pronunciation. 00:04:08.960 --> 00:04:09.360 What did I say? 00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:09.919 Pronunciation? 00:04:09.919 --> 00:04:12.080 You said pronunciation? 00:04:12.319 --> 00:04:13.039 Pronunciation? 00:04:13.280 --> 00:04:16.240 Listen, folks, we're operating on reduced sleep. 00:04:16.240 --> 00:04:17.839 I should get a lot of passes. 00:04:17.839 --> 00:04:23.279 We we've got uh we've got like contractors in the basement dealing with like a flooding thing. 00:04:23.279 --> 00:04:25.199 We just contractors. 00:04:25.199 --> 00:04:26.319 Contractors? 00:04:26.319 --> 00:04:27.759 Is that not how you say that word either? 00:04:27.759 --> 00:04:28.319 Contract? 00:04:29.519 --> 00:04:30.639 It's a different emphasis. 00:04:31.040 --> 00:04:43.040 We actually don't know if this is the sleep deprivation, or I just I I mean, the other day on a podcast recording, I think I said Pascal when I've been reminded by Ben and other folks that it's Pascal, not Haskell. 00:04:43.040 --> 00:04:46.879 It's not Pascal like Haskell, it's Pascal like Pascal. 00:04:46.879 --> 00:04:48.560 I don't know what Pascal rhymes with. 00:04:48.560 --> 00:04:49.040 Sure. 00:04:49.040 --> 00:04:51.680 Um anyways, we'll chalk it up to the sleep deprivation. 00:04:51.680 --> 00:04:57.439 Uh we apologize to the English listeners, and uh we'll just going forward, I'm sure I'm gonna mispronounce a bunch more words. 00:04:57.439 --> 00:04:59.360 So it's been a number of episodes. 00:04:59.360 --> 00:05:00.800 Have you been, Jason? 00:05:00.800 --> 00:05:04.000 And then we will we'll jump into the topics that we're gonna we're chat about. 00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:05.759 Cppcon, some talks you give him. 00:05:06.079 --> 00:05:07.120 Yeah, I'm doing fine. 00:05:07.120 --> 00:05:26.959 I I don't even know after that intro when it was that we were that I was last on the podcast to try to catch anyone up on anything, but I mean, my life hasn't, from the perspective of the listeners, my life has changed very little because I am still doing training and going to conferences and hosting C Bus Plus Weekly. 00:05:26.959 --> 00:05:30.000 But as you said, I brought back C VP Cast again. 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:32.079 So yeah, it's been good. 00:05:32.079 --> 00:05:35.680 I Can I ask you what's your local meetup? 00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:36.800 What's my local meetup? 00:05:37.120 --> 00:05:39.600 Because famously you always say in your talks, go to your local meetups. 00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:41.759 Which local meetup are you going to right now, Jason? 00:05:42.079 --> 00:05:51.920 I will shortly be presumably bouncing between the Amsterdam and Eindhoven C meetups. 00:05:51.920 --> 00:05:53.519 That is cool. 00:05:53.519 --> 00:05:54.800 That is the plan. 00:05:54.800 --> 00:06:01.120 I will, well, and fine, since you brought it up, I am in the process of relocating to the Netherlands. 00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:02.639 We'll see how that goes. 00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:04.800 It is not a secret or anything. 00:06:04.800 --> 00:06:12.240 And there's so there's both of those meetups meet irregularly, say once every three or four months. 00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:16.399 And I would love because well, how long Ben? 00:06:16.399 --> 00:06:18.079 How long has it been now? 00:06:18.079 --> 00:06:20.079 Just right at 10 years? 00:06:20.079 --> 00:06:21.759 One one month away from Denver. 00:06:21.759 --> 00:06:23.199 So the Denver meetup, you mean? 00:06:23.199 --> 00:06:23.680 Yeah. 00:06:23.920 --> 00:06:24.160 Yeah. 00:06:24.160 --> 00:06:25.199 I'm gonna say yes. 00:06:25.199 --> 00:06:28.399 I mean, I only came to Denver in late 2018. 00:06:28.399 -->

00:06:28.720 Right. 00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:35.439 And I know you were going before then, and you had moved around you'd moved from the tech center to the north. 00:06:35.439 --> 00:06:38.000 I'm not sure what you're counting as the beginning of the Denver meetup. 00:06:38.240 --> 00:06:49.439 So the one when it was Scott Frederickson was the one who had it when it was down at the Denver Tech Center, and then he retired from hosting the meetup and asked me if I wanted to take it over, and I said, No way, are you crazy? 00:06:49.439 --> 00:06:50.399 Why would I want to do that? 00:06:50.399 --> 00:06:51.199 Basically. 00:06:51.199 --> 00:06:55.279 And then a few, maybe it was a year, about a year later. 00:06:55.279 --> 00:06:58.240 And then I was like, you know what, we need a meetup. 00:06:58.240 --> 00:07:08.800 And I moved it up north because it was too far south, and most of the C jobs are centered around like Boulder, Longmont, whatever, and this and and the Denver area. 00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:17.600 Anyhow, I moved the meetup up there, and I believe that this is to one month, one month shy of the 10th year anniversary. 00:07:17.600 --> 00:07:20.319 I left just before the 10th year anniversary for the meetup. 00:07:20.319 --> 00:07:23.680 And we missed exactly one meetup during that time frame. 00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:24.399 Really? 00:07:24.399 --> 00:07:26.639 For the entire decade. 00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:29.600 Yeah, uh, someone should double check the the date there. 00:07:29.600 --> 00:07:30.639 I think it's 10 years. 00:07:30.639 --> 00:07:32.639 Ben, I don't know, one of us could look it up. 00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:34.959 It's the entire history of it's on meetup.com. 00:07:35.199 --> 00:07:38.160 I mean, from my personal experience, it's eight years this month. 00:07:38.160 --> 00:07:42.959 From you because October or eight years last month. 00:07:42.959 --> 00:07:47.920 Like September 2018 was probably the first Denver meetup I attended. 00:07:48.160 --> 00:07:51.920 That probably makes the North Denver, or is it is it North Denver or Denver now? 00:07:51.920 --> 00:08:02.639 Because I know at one point there was alright, it doesn't matter, but it must be the most consistent, unless if there's like in in Scandinavi, I know Scandinavia has a lot of C, and there's the Sweet, the Swedish or Sweden C. 00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:08.800 It must be the most consistent because missing one month over like that C Toronto doesn't hold a candle to that. 00:08:08.800 --> 00:08:13.920 Like we we've had like one meetup in the last year, and I know Mike's been busy with conference organizing and stuff. 00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:17.759 Like it's not like uh we're giving people a hard time for not organizing meetups, it's a lot of work. 00:08:17.759 --> 00:08:20.079 But yeah, that is an that's a crazy stat. 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:23.600 Especially I I mean I think this is Jason's influence. 00:08:23.600 --> 00:08:25.439 Jason is nothing if not consistent. 00:08:25.439 --> 00:08:28.399 It puts out C weekly, weekly. 00:08:28.399 --> 00:08:39.279 And and you know, I I think probably that's in Jason's head, that's an important feature of any kind of endeavor is consistency because that's what brings people in, right? 00:08:39.279 --> 00:08:39.759 It is. 00:08:39.759 --> 00:08:41.519 Jason, you I don't want to talk for you. 00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:50.639 No, you're you're absolutely like you you I'm I I'm trying to scroll back and verify when the first meetup was because now I'm obsessed with trying to figure that out. 00:08:50.639 --> 00:08:52.240 But it is absolutely consistent. 00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:58.960 If you want to build community of any kind, then you kinda, you know, you you have to be consistent. 00:08:59.200 --> 00:09:02.720 Yeah, you have to be able to say first, you know, first Thursday of every month. 00:09:02.960 --> 00:09:03.279 Right. 00:09:03.279 --> 00:09:04.320 That's when we meet. 00:09:04.320 --> 00:09:07.919 November 3rd of 2016 was when I took it over. 00:09:08.240 --> 00:09:08.559 Okay. 00:09:08.559 --> 00:09:10.799 So that is ten years. 00:09:10.960 --> 00:09:11.120 Yeah. 00:09:11.120 --> 00:09:15.440 That's and what's wild too is that that captures the whole COVID period. 00:09:15.440 --> 00:09:25.360 So like you would you would assume that you would have dropped a couple months here and there just by virtue of the fact that that was a crazy period, and at least during the transition, you would imagine. 00:09:25.440 --> 00:09:27.840 But no, we immediately said, What are we gonna do? 00:09:27.840 --> 00:09:28.720 Let's meet online. 00:09:28.720 --> 00:09:30.559 And you were there, right, Connor? 00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:31.039 Yeah, yeah. 00:09:31.039 --> 00:09:36.559 You're you had one of the best uh and first like online virtual, I mean, uh almost all of them. 00:09:36.559 --> 00:09:45.759 I remember the San Diego C it almost became a bit much because at the time I was like at max consumption, not just virtual conferences and meetups, and at some point I burnt out. 00:09:45.759 --> 00:09:53.679 But like as soon as meetups went virtual, especially the APL meetups too, like those, there's only a handful of them across the world. 00:09:53.679 --> 00:10:02.960 And so, like when the British APL Association starts meeting online, like that was something I there was no local Toronto APL meetup that I could go. 00:10:02.960 --> 00:10:04.080 Yeah, surprise, surprise. 00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:12.080 It's actually Toronto of all the places would actually be a decent place to have one because there's IP sharpen associates and there's a big Q community as well. 00:10:12.080 --> 00:10:20.159 So of all the places, but anyways, I remember the the Denver C meetups were and and then you even continued to host them hybrid for a while. 00:10:20.159 --> 00:10:21.679 They're still hybrid, in fact. 00:10:21.679 --> 00:10:22.639 And we still do. 00:10:22.639 --> 00:10:23.440 Yeah, amazing.

00:10:23.440 --> 00:10:28.240 So definitely at the top of the show notes will be a link for those that don't have a local meetup. 00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:31.519 You can treat the Denver seatup as your local meetup virtually. 00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:36.480 Well, I was just gonna say one particular person who has been attending from Australia since COVID. 00:10:36.799 --> 00:10:37.440 That's right. 00:10:37.440 --> 00:10:38.720 Shout out to Ashley. 00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:40.559 Ashley, yes, shout out to Ashley. 00:10:40.559 --> 00:10:45.440 Ashley, I think, has attended more meetups than I have in the last couple of years, actually. 00:10:46.159 --> 00:10:48.320 What's the the time zone there's gotta be brutal? 00:10:48.320 --> 00:10:49.440 Is that the middle of the night? 00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:54.159 I think it's like beginning of the day for him when Denver meets. 00:10:54.240 --> 00:10:56.559 I think it's like sort of maybe 8 a.m. 00:10:56.559 --> 00:10:57.120 something like that. 00:10:57.120 --> 00:10:58.559 Right, because the meetup's in the evening. 00:10:58.639 --> 00:11:00.639 It's not it's not during work work hours. 00:11:00.639 --> 00:11:00.960 Right. 00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:03.360 Well, let's see, we can figure this out. 00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:07.360 Denver is GMT minus seven and Australia is GMT, let's say, plus. 00:11:07.360 --> 00:11:09.440 Because we all memorize that kind of stuff, yeah. 00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:10.240 Of course. 00:11:10.240 --> 00:11:11.759 I was just thinking also. 00:11:11.759 --> 00:11:13.360 That's approximately right. 00:11:13.360 --> 00:11:22.240 So that means he's if we say sixteen hours at two-thirds of a day or eight hours, so you know, we meet at six, that actually that means it's like two a.m. 00:11:22.240 --> 00:11:22.960 for him. 00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:27.600 Well, maybe I was miss I was thinking wrong. 00:11:27.600 --> 00:11:28.799 Maybe it's three a.m. 00:11:28.799 --> 00:11:30.799 depending on how far ahead of GMT he is. 00:11:30.799 --> 00:11:35.279 He might be in like Queensland, it might not be exactly nine hours, it might be nine and a half, or I don't know. 00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:37.759 Maybe a future guest for You should do that. 00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:38.960 Have Ashley on. 00:11:38.960 --> 00:11:39.759 Absolutely. 00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:40.799 Oh yeah, yeah. 00:11:40.879 --> 00:11:41.919 We'll figure out the time zones. 00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:43.200 You were gonna say though, over COVID. 00:11:43.200 --> 00:11:48.399 Oh, we had people from all over, people from Europe, everything, like who who attended the meetup. 00:11:48.399 --> 00:11:48.960 It was crazy. 00:11:49.279 --> 00:11:50.879 A wild time, a long time ago. 00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:52.000 No, it wasn't. 00:11:52.240 --> 00:11:53.360 Oh wait, no, I was right. 00:11:53.360 --> 00:11:55.120 I was thinking the wrong way around. 00:11:55.120 --> 00:11:58.399 I and So it's not 2 a.m. 00:11:58.399 --> 00:12:01.440 Because he's not eight hours

ahead of Denver, he's 16 hours ahead of Denver, right? 00:12:01.440 --> 00:12:02.399 I was behind. 00:12:02.399 --> 00:12:04.559 So when we meet at 6, it's like 10 a.m. 00:12:04.799 --> 00:12:16.639 This is when a video we were talking about before we officially started recording that there's there there's no uh video component, but if there was, people would have seen Ben kind or Ben kind of freeze for a few seconds, and then ah, I was wrong. 00:12:16.639 --> 00:12:19.279 Like you could tell that the gears were turning in his head. 00:12:19.279 --> 00:12:22.720 What they were turning for, I wasn't exactly sure, but then it became clear. 00:12:22.720 --> 00:12:25.039 Anyway, so you're you're based in Amsterdam, right? 00:12:25.039 --> 00:12:26.159 Or I'm actually not sure. 00:12:26.159 --> 00:12:29.840 I I just uh guessed that uh maybe not Amsterdam, it could be Einho, or somewhere in between. 00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:42.399 And actually, so my my wife and I were just shopping yesterday and we saw is that today, whatever, yesterday, we saw a mug that said, I'm Dutch and no I don't live in Amsterdam, and we're like, we need those bugs. 00:12:42.399 --> 00:12:48.720 Because like every single person that we've interacted with is like, oh, so when you move to Amsterdam, I'm not moving to Amsterdam. 00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:53.679 I mean, and by every person I mean every not Dutch person, right? 00:12:53.679 --> 00:12:56.159 There's actually a lot of cities in this small country. 00:12:56.480 --> 00:12:59.840 Because that's the city in the Netherlands that we've heard of. 00:12:59.840 --> 00:13:00.399 Yes. 00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:01.759 Is that the implication? 00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:02.399 Yeah. 00:13:02.399 --> 00:13:06.720 So what do you think about what do you think about saying Holland for the Netherlands? 00:13:06.720 --> 00:13:07.919 What did you say? 00:13:07.919 --> 00:13:09.039 Sorry, what was that? 00:13:09.039 --> 00:13:11.679 What do you think about people calling the Netherlands Holland? 00:13:11.679 --> 00:13:13.679 Oh, it seems to depend partially on Holland. 00:13:13.679 --> 00:13:16.240 I mean two of the provinces, Holland. 00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:16.720 Yeah. 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:26.240 Holland, and well it's weird because a lot of the like tourist merchandise will say Holland on it, but it is just like one of the provinces. 00:13:26.240 --> 00:13:26.879 Counties. 00:13:27.360 --> 00:13:27.759 Provinces. 00:13:27.759 --> 00:13:29.120 Is it north, north and south? 00:13:29.120 --> 00:13:30.559 Is there not north and south or is it just one? 00:13:30.879 --> 00:13:32.159 There's north and south Holland, yeah. 00:13:32.320 --> 00:13:35.039 But anyhow, somewhere And they are the most populous, right? 00:13:35.039 --> 00:13:38.480 I guess that's where all the population, most of the population conjecture. 00:13:38.799 --> 00:13:45.919 I mean, it's certainly the highest population density, but how it weighs against the rest of the country, I'm not sure. 00:13:45.919 --> 00:13:46.559 Okay. 00:13:46.559 --> 00:13:47.039 Yeah. 00:13:47.039 --> 00:13:48.559 But anyhow, somewhere central. 00:13:48.559 --> 00:13:49.919 We um don't have a house yet. 00:13:49.919 --> 00:13:50.559 We're homeless. 00:13:50.960 --> 00:13:52.480 I assume you're still saying so. 00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:56.159 You're just not homeowners yet. 00:13:56.159 --> 00:13:58.559 Oh yeah, I guess yeah, you're we're in an Airbnb. 00:13:58.799 --> 00:14:02.320 You have a wall behind you, so I'm not outside at the moment. 00:14:02.320 --> 00:14:13.039 But it's a fascinating, like, if you look at the statistics of like how people who are unhoused are counted, we would fall actually in that statistic because we don't have a permanent home. 00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:16.799 We are moving from transient location to transient location until we find a permanent home. 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:18.639 And I find that just fascinating. 00:14:18.639 --> 00:14:26.399 I surely do not face the same same kind of hardships that someone who is you know has no roof over their head. 00:14:26.399 --> 00:14:27.039 Right. 00:14:27.039 --> 00:14:30.639 Or even the people who should fall into that statistic. 00:14:30.639 --> 00:14:32.559 I'm not sure how to phrase that, right? 00:14:32.559 --> 00:14:36.559 Like ours is by choice at the moment, is what I'm trying to say. 00:14:36.799 --> 00:14:36.960 Right. 00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:41.919 Yeah, there should be some uh granularity there that disambiguates between your situation. 00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:42.399 Yeah. 00:14:42.399 --> 00:14:53.679 I was gonna say you're going through some of those annoying logistical things like you know, having to s having to get a footprint in the country involved, like having to get a bank account and maybe a phone and utilities and things like that. 00:14:53.679 --> 00:15:05.440 Uh and not having a permanent address and having to get some of that other stuff to get a permanent address, but having to have a permanent address to get, say, a bank account is kind of a chicken and egg problem sometimes. 00:15:05.759 --> 00:15:15.759 Well, yeah, you can't rent a place really until you have like some sort of foothold, but you can't apply for immigration status until you have an address. 00:15:15.759 --> 00:15:18.240 So you kind of have to borrow an address. 00:15:18.559 --> 00:15:18.799 Right. 00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:19.679 Very tricky. 00:15:19.679 --> 00:15:26.000 Well, we bid you good luck on your journey to uh becoming housed. 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:28.639 Maybe by the next time we're we're chatting, that'll be the case. 00:15:28.960 --> 00:15:29.279 Maybe. 00:15:29.279 --> 00:15:31.279 Which conference are you going to next? 00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:36.240 Well, so that that's a perfect segue back to that little uh tangent that we just went on. 00:15:36.240 --> 00:15:43.919 Started from you said you think you were at every single conference this year that probably you typically

go to. 00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:46.720 And what conference am I going to next? 00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:48.639 I have absolutely no idea. 00:15:48.639 --> 00:15:55.039 I've actually only been to one conference this year, and it was C or NDC Toronto, I check what it's called. 00:15:55.039 --> 00:16:07.840 And that's not because I mean I did apply to a couple, one of them was uh Lambda World in uh Cadiz, but that is at the tail end of October in a couple weeks, and that is not possible with having a newborn. 00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:24.480 And uh and so and I think there was maybe one or two others, but I have in my old age now started submitting more esoteric, like you know, I used to do like two for peop the people and then one for me, you know, something more combined combinatory logic. 00:16:24.480 --> 00:16:33.840 And in my old age now, I kind of just one for me, one for me, one for I'm you're not I'm not giving the people what they want in terms of like the new algorithms and C26 or whatever. 00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:41.200 And inevitably there's less demand for my esoteric obscure topics that I want to talk about. 00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:46.879 So a combination of uh the new baby and odd topics led to only one talk this year. 00:16:46.879 --> 00:16:55.120 I do plan on submitting next year, but I have I have no idea that really depends on yeah, how how well the baby is gonna like traveling. 00:16:55.120 --> 00:16:57.759 We're gonna dip our toe in the water and we'll see how it goes. 00:16:57.759 --> 00:16:58.960 Some babies are better than others. 00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:06.000 Although Well, you know, who was it who said there are there are two classes of travel, first class and with children. 00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:08.720 I think that was the quote. 00:17:08.720 --> 00:17:10.720 Someone like George Bernature, I can't remember. 00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:17.119 My wife Shima really wants me to submit because she would love because she's off for the next year on on Matt Leave and would love to take along. 00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:18.480 But yeah, so we will see. 00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:24.960 Anyways, I'm sure we will bump into each other because we we tend to, Jason, but I have I had no idea what the next one will be. 00:17:24.960 --> 00:17:32.480 So it's easier if you tell us all the conferences you went to in the past year, and then I'll just select from those the ones that I applied to. 00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:33.359 Okay. 00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:41.119 So this past year, C online, and then NDC Toronto was next, I think. 00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:46.880 And then I went to NDC Copenhagen, not a C conference. 00:17:46.880 --> 00:17:49.759 There was a lot of AI content that conference. 00:17:49.759 --> 00:17:52.079 I have no idea how it normally rolls, of course. 00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:59.599 And then C or ACCU on the sea, Folkston. 00:17:59.599 --> 00:18:02.400 And then was my next one, C VPCon. 00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:12.079 And then NDC Tech Town, and then I'm

going to C under the sea in a week and having a workshop there. 00:18:12.079 --> 00:18:13.279 I think that's all of them. 00:18:13.279 --> 00:18:14.160 That's a lot. 00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:15.759 I but I miss C now. 00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:18.960 I was gonna say that one was notably absent from the list. 00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:21.920 Yeah, I haven't actually been since 2018. 00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:28.559 It's an expensive and difficult conference to get to, unless if if you don't work for Bloomberg, I guess. 00:18:28.559 --> 00:18:31.680 Um Yeah, even if you're a local. 00:18:31.680 --> 00:18:33.279 I was gonna ask you, Jason. 00:18:33.279 --> 00:18:39.200 Well, if you're local, it's only a drive, but it's still that that conference runs on the shoes drink budget. 00:18:39.200 --> 00:18:43.759 So as a speaker, you get a ticket, but you don't get your hotel paid for, for example. 00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:44.160 Yeah. 00:18:44.559 --> 00:18:46.799 But I was gonna ask you, Jason, so you what was that? 00:18:46.799 --> 00:18:48.400 Half a dozen conferences at least. 00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:50.160 Did you did you speak at all of them? 00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:54.079 And and maybe you didn't speak at Copenhagen, you said, but um I did. 00:18:54.079 --> 00:18:55.519 How many talks? 00:18:55.519 --> 00:18:56.240 Oh, you did. 00:18:56.240 --> 00:18:59.279 So how many talks did you did you prep this year? 00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:01.279 How many did you take from conference to conference? 00:19:01.279 --> 00:19:02.160 How did they evolve? 00:19:02.559 --> 00:19:03.279 Oh goodness. 00:19:03.279 --> 00:19:04.000 All right. 00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:14.079 So I did have a couple of repeats this year because I kind of made like my list of like five talks, and then I submitted like overlapping ones to different conferences to see what get accepted. 00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:31.920 I gave one talk, uh one talk on C ⁇ online, that one was unique, and the NDC Copenhagen one was unique, and then C on C talk, which was which was Safety and Numbers, I gave also at CDPCon. 00:19:31.920 --> 00:19:36.079 And then also at C V PCon, I gave the talk The Rule of N. 00:19:36.079 --> 00:19:37.599 Let's just say the rule of N. 00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:41.359 And then I duplicated that one, you see, Tech Town. 00:19:41.359 --> 00:19:49.119 Now, and ironically, I did not get a talk accepted as C under the C, but I'm giving a workshop there, so I still get a free ticket. 00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:52.559 I will go and find the links for for all these mentioned talks. 00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:58.720 So if you're interested in seeing at least the ones that are out, I assume the CPPCon talk is not available online a number of months. 00:19:58.720 --> 00:19:59.920 But the other one should be. 00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:00.240 Yes. 00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:01.119 It's not yet. 00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:03.440 I think I gave a couple of good ones this year. 00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:06.000 My C online one was Clickbaity. 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:08.160 It was IFix Move Semantics. 00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:09.759 Oh yes, I saw that one. 00:20:09.759 --> 00:20:10.319 I remember. 00:20:10.319 --> 00:20:11.119 That one. 00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:18.000 I got I whenever I go to a Jason's talk, I go partly so that Jason has someone in the audience he can pick on. 00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:20.559 I don't remember if I picked on you on that. 00:20:20.559 --> 00:20:32.480 I mean it's And it's often the case that it's often the case that we have discussed on Discord or whatever, maybe sometimes even in person, the the general theme of the talk, and we've we've been back and forth with a couple of ideas around it, maybe. 00:20:32.480 --> 00:20:33.599 Absolutely, yeah. 00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:36.400 Yeah, one I think that was a good talk. 00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:43.680 I it was an unexpected response from it because so the point of all of my talks is to make people think, right? 00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:47.519 Like I don't expect everyone to agree with everything I say, that's silly. 00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:55.359 And in fact, I I like I want people to disagree with me in a way because then that means they're actually thinking about the problem, right? 00:20:55.359 --> 00:20:57.119 I mean engaged. 00:20:57.119 --> 00:20:57.839 Usually. 00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:05.759 Every now and then you get the person who disagrees with you, and it's clearly just because they don't feel like thinking, so they're going back to their old ways of thinking. 00:21:05.759 --> 00:21:09.680 But if someone disagrees with you in a thoughtful way, then I think that's amazing. 00:21:09.680 --> 00:21:33.440 But anyhow, I got a response from someone saying that they were actually rolling the ideas from the iFix Move Semantics talk into some of the core of GCC to make it to ensure that they were actually in their stand I think it was in the standard library or something to make it sure, make sure that they were actually forwarding and moving how they meant to and using the type system like I suggested to ensure that. 00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:34.079 Nice. 00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:35.200 Yeah, it is. 00:21:35.200 --> 00:21:36.880 The second talk comments. 00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:41.200 I was trying to find some, you know, uh pithy comments from the YouTube video. 00:21:41.200 --> 00:21:42.480 It's got 10,000 views, folks. 00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:43.680 Link link in the show notes. 00:21:43.680 --> 00:21:48.640 It says it's extremely depressing that this talk makes sense and is actually useful. 00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:52.400 I would love to have an ability to introduce breaking changes to C. 00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:58.880 Haven't seen I haven't seen the talk, folks, but it uh is intriguing and makes me want to watch it immediately. 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:02.240 No one has seen all of my talks, not even me. 00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:06.480 Like uh I mean, do you ever finish a talk and you're like, I have no idea what I just

said? 00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:07.440 You know what I mean? 00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:11.519 Like, sometimes it's just Oh, all the time. 00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:17.599 Because it's like being on stage giving a talk is like you're in a separate universe. 00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:18.079 Yeah. 00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:26.160 And you're performing, and then you come off and and it's like it's like the whole thing was a fugue, and you don't remember afterwards exactly what you said. 00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:28.079 Or sometimes even vaguely what you said. 00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:37.279 I I I always remember stuff, but I I I remember all the things that like I messed up or it's not so much messed up, but like I wanted to say but didn't say. 00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:44.880 And then like the first few talks I ever gave, I always thought, like, oh, that went so bad compared to like what I was aiming for. 00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:47.039 And then I'll watch the recording when it comes out. 00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:53.039 I know some people don't do that, but I I do it to like you know, compare it and and whatever practice as if you know it's a performance. 00:22:53.039 --> 00:23:09.279 And then whenever I watch it, I'm like, well, that isn't nearly as bad as I thought because all of the quote unquote mistakes I made were mostly I wanted to highlight this one thing and like fail to highlight it in the way that I wanted to, but like that doesn't come across as like you flubbing or like saying something incorrect. 00:23:09.279 --> 00:23:16.319 It's just it's it's a delta from what you envisioned, but it it doesn't come across as like, oh, this person made a mistake. 00:23:16.319 --> 00:23:23.440 So I I find actually watching the talks always like I've never watched a talk and thought, oh, it is as bad as I thought it was. 00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:26.319 It's usually, oh, that actually wasn't nearly anywhere as bad. 00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:29.440 It I actually that's the talk stands, you know, on its own. 00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:33.440 Just because I missed a few things that I wanted to highlight doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing. 00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:36.720 But I think this is true of most creative endeavors. 00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:39.680 You know, we used to say the same thing when I worked in games. 00:23:39.680 --> 00:23:47.119 When you're making the game, you have all these amazing ideas, and the game you should actually ship, you know, if you're lucky, implements maybe half of them. 00:23:47.119 --> 00:23:47.519 Yeah. 00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:57.519 And so what you ship always seems such a a lesser thing than you than you could have achieved in the you know, of course, in the time constraints and budget constraints, you achieve what you can achieve. 00:23:57.519 --> 00:24:00.559 But but you know, the people who play the game never know. 00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:03.279 They never see all the things that could have been. 00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:05.519 And if they see a good game, fine. 00:24:05.759 --> 00:24:09.680 But I'm thinking like my style of presentation. 00:24:09.680 --> 00:24:17.440 I mean, I think this is obvious to some people who watch my talks, but I've got maybe like a let's say maybe like a 70% plan. 00:24:17.440 --> 00:24:18.000 Right? 00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:18.720 Right. 00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:20.079 The rest of it is absolutely. 00:24:20.240 --> 00:24:21.680 You talk sound very interactive. 00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:22.319 Yes. 00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:33.920 So it's rare that I ever get to the end of the talk and say, oh, I didn't communicate all the things that I meant to communicate, because I'm not even necessarily sure like exactly what I meant to communicate, right? 00:24:33.920 --> 00:24:40.480 Like I'm gonna have a I'm gonna have slides that have the key points, and everything else is just gonna be like, let's see what happens. 00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:42.480 So that that part is rare. 00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:52.880 But sometimes you're just so exhausted from the conference and the travel and everything, you're like, like, you know, I you don't remember like how the talk went, basically. 00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:54.720 You're just like, never mind, I'm done. 00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:55.519 I'm shot. 00:24:55.680 --> 00:24:55.920 You know? 00:24:55.920 --> 00:24:56.319 Yeah. 00:24:56.319 --> 00:25:00.079 Kate Gregory has said that in a couple different talks or podcasts she's given, yeah. 00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:04.160 She gets off the stage and it's just like the most energy draining uh experience. 00:25:04.160 --> 00:25:11.200 Because it's it's not just the talk, it's the build-up to the talk, the prep for the talk, and then it's finally done, and it's like well, maybe we should talk about some of these talks. 00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:15.119 I know that Ben had specifically called out this rule of N. 00:25:15.119 --> 00:25:25.359 Be sure to check these show notes either in your podcast app or at adspthepodcast.com for links to anything we mentioned in today's episode, as well as a link to a GitHub discussion where you can leave thoughts, comments, and questions. 00:25:25.359 --> 00:25:26.160 Thanks for listening. 00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:27.759 We hope you enjoyed and have a great day. 00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:29.759 I am the anti price. 00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:30.640 Um