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Speaker A
00:02:40
Hello and welcome to another episode of the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Wisdom Episodes.
Speaker A
00:02:46
These are the shorter bites for you.
Speaker A
00:02:48
And today I have a really interesting part of a conversation that I had with the children's author Louise Gooding.
Speaker A
00:02:56
And I wanted to include this piece of the conversation because I think it's so relatable to many of us about finally uncovering the reasons why we may have felt that our potential was never quite accessed or not quite understanding why certain things were so challenging for us.
Speaker A
00:03:14
And this comes from a late in life ADHD diagnosis, which is what Louise had.
Speaker A
00:03:20
And she is now a brilliant author.
Speaker A
00:03:23
She's published several books and she explains very honestly how difficult that was and how, you know, throughout the process there was imposter syndrome and anxiety and all the worries and the fears that come with authoring a book and putting it out there, but also navigating this late in life diagnosis, navigating what that means, but finally being able to understand and accept herself and accept that this is the way she may process information, the way she might work.
Speaker A
00:03:55
And it gives a huge amount, I think, of hope to people who think that they are never going to realize their potential.
Speaker A
00:04:05
So I hope that if you are listening to this right now and there's things that you want to do and there's things you want to achieve but have found it difficult because maybe you've not quite understood your wiring or your brain, that this conversation helps you find something within you to accept who you are, offer yourself some self compassion, dust yourself off and do what feels good to you in the way that feels good to you.
Speaker A
00:04:30
And if in doubt, always ask for help.
Speaker A
00:04:33
So here is my conversation with Louise Gooding.
Speaker A
00:04:37
You know, we're playing catch up.
Speaker A
00:04:38
And the fact that you've already published three incredible books in the space of time that you have had your diagnosis is unbelievable.
Speaker A
00:04:47
So is it five or six years?
Speaker A
00:04:49
You've published three books and you got your diagnosis around?
Speaker A
00:04:52
Yeah.
Speaker A
00:04:53
So what were you doing?
Speaker A
00:04:54
So tell me a little bit about life before pre diagnosis, pre writing books.
Speaker A
00:04:59
What was going on for you?
Speaker B
00:05:01
I guess I am, I always joked I'm like the stereotypical like poster girl of like trying to find herself.
Speaker B
00:05:09
I had a million and one hobbies.
Speaker B
00:05:11
I never stuck with anything.
Speaker B
00:05:13
I was always trying to find the thing that would be my thing.
Speaker B
00:05:17
My partner at the time was always like, we have.
Speaker B
00:05:20
You have a craft room, Louise.
Speaker B
00:05:22
We literally I had a craft room of all of the like the hobbies I had started and then got bored.
Speaker A
00:05:28
But I know this One well, and.
Speaker B
00:05:30
It'S going to be great.
Speaker B
00:05:31
I'm going to be an artist.
Speaker B
00:05:32
No, I'm not.
Speaker B
00:05:32
I'm going to be this or I'm going to do that.
Speaker B
00:05:36
I just didn't know.
Speaker B
00:05:37
And as I said, because for me especially, I really struggled.
Speaker B
00:05:40
I was kind of scared of education and going back into it.
Speaker B
00:05:44
I'm quite open about, about that because I just felt it was inaccessible and I didn't know why.
Speaker B
00:05:51
Now I do said, you know, I went back.
Speaker B
00:05:53
It was last year that I went and had further diagnosis and help for.
Speaker B
00:05:58
Why.
Speaker B
00:05:59
Why was I still struggling?
Speaker B
00:06:00
Like, why was I unable to access things I couldn't?
Speaker B
00:06:03
You know, having an ADHD diagnosis was great, but where were my strengths and weaknesses?
Speaker B
00:06:07
Like really, I wanted to know more, more.
Speaker B
00:06:11
And they.
Speaker A
00:06:12
How did you do that?
Speaker A
00:06:12
Who did you do that through?
Speaker B
00:06:14
I went through.
Speaker B
00:06:14
That was.
Speaker B
00:06:15
I was in Switzerland at the time and I was at a clinic there because I.
Speaker B
00:06:19
I'll be honest, I was having a bit of a mental health breakdown with, you know, my daughter was not having particularly great access to help and support.
Speaker B
00:06:26
Support in the Swiss education system.
Speaker B
00:06:29
I don't think it's all over everywhere, but where we lived especially, it was not great.
Speaker B
00:06:33
And I was said, you know, talk about that trauma thing.
Speaker B
00:06:36
I, I really struggled watching her go through that.
Speaker B
00:06:40
And I basically was trying to then obviously keep up with, you know, my work, my writing.
Speaker B
00:06:45
And I would be like, but I'm, you know, sometimes I do things and I forget or, you know, I should be doing more.
Speaker B
00:06:51
And I want to now go and study this, but I don't know how I go and study this because I'm obviously capable, but I just can't unlock something in my brain.
Speaker B
00:07:00
And so I went to this, this clinic and they were fantastic.
Speaker B
00:07:04
And I saw an ADHD specialist who basically said, your working memory is really not great.
Speaker B
00:07:11
It's you.
Speaker B
00:07:12
You have a learning disability because you just don't, you know, unless you.
Speaker B
00:07:17
She worked out.
Speaker B
00:07:17
If it was done a specific way, I'm good and I'm a prime, a practical person.
Speaker B
00:07:21
Show me.
Speaker B
00:07:23
Show me with movement and things and that I.
Speaker B
00:07:25
I retain things asking me to repeat numbers.
Speaker B
00:07:28
If you said to me now, six numbers in a row, I'd probably remember two of them.
Speaker B
00:07:31
I
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just literally can't.
Speaker B
00:07:33
My brain just freaks out.
Speaker B
00:07:35
And that was my whole thing of like, I want to go back to education, but I don't know.
Speaker B
00:07:40
Again, is it something, you know, I said I was scared before and I was scared now to do it.
Speaker B
00:07:46
So that's Why I went and had this, this clinic, you know, diagnosis to say, you know, is it a possibility or is there something stopping me, or is it just me stopping me because of, you know, past experiences in my school life?
Speaker B
00:08:01
So getting that was really, really helpful.
Speaker B
00:08:04
But, yeah, beforehand it was, you know, yeah, I was just.
Speaker B
00:08:07
I was just doing a bit of everything.
Speaker B
00:08:08
I was a children's entertainer for three years, which I absolutely loved, and that worked really well with my personality.
Speaker B
00:08:15
I guess everything I've done beforehand have always led me to where I am now, and I feel comfortable where I am now.
Speaker B
00:08:23
But I tried everything.
Speaker B
00:08:24
I was never sure where I was going to be or what I was going to do.
Speaker A
00:08:27
I hear this all the time of women who spend pretty much her whole life soul searching and looking.
Speaker A
00:08:34
Why can't I just stick it?
Speaker A
00:08:35
Why can't I just find my thing?
Speaker A
00:08:37
And we berate ourselves and we sort of, you know, it's like, why can't I just do it and stay and stay put?
Speaker A
00:08:44
And then we get this diagnosis and it's kind of like, okay, and it's a lot more acceptance.
Speaker A
00:08:49
And then you start leaning into that creativity.
Speaker A
00:08:51
And what's interesting, I can hear you saying that all the things kind of just that you've been doing was building up.
Speaker A
00:08:57
And then maybe that diagnosis just gave you that full permission to kind of go, I'm just going to do the thing I'm going to do.
Speaker A
00:09:03
I'm going to write the books.
Speaker A
00:09:05
I also hear a lot of people with adhd, they love writing.
Speaker A
00:09:08
I mean, I also love writing and they have lots of incredible ideas.
Speaker A
00:09:13
But you went from having the ideas, writing proposal, how did you get.
Speaker A
00:09:17
Get over the finishing line?
Speaker A
00:09:18
Like, how's that?
Speaker A
00:09:19
You got.
Speaker A
00:09:19
Did you get an agent?
Speaker A
00:09:20
Like, did you send it out to publishers?
Speaker A
00:09:22
How did it work?
Speaker B
00:09:23
Yeah, it really is an ADHD naivety, spontaneity.
Speaker B
00:09:28
Just go for it.
Speaker B
00:09:31
I had a friend when I was like, I put together this proposal and she was.
Speaker B
00:09:35
She'd been writing for years.
Speaker B
00:09:37
She was very nice and very supportive.
Speaker B
00:09:39
And she's like, yeah, but Louise, just remember, I've been doing this for many, many, many, many, many years.
Speaker B
00:09:43
And it doesn't just
happen overnight.
Speaker B
00:09:46
And, you know, just be aware.
Speaker B
00:09:48
And I think I sent it to only three agents.
Speaker B
00:09:50
I didn't realize you were meant to send it to, like, about 200.
Speaker B
00:09:53
And I'm not the person to follow everyone.
Speaker B
00:09:55
People need to understand that this does not happen.
Speaker B
00:09:59
But I sent the just like me proposal to my agency and Madeleine Milburn and the agency just Picked it up and said there's nothing out there like this at the time.
Speaker B
00:10:09
And they, they were interested in what, you know, what I had to say, why I was doing it, why, why I was so inspired to write these books.
Speaker B
00:10:17
And you know, obviously I'm still with them and they've been, you know, amazingly supportive of sort of helping me write books which all kind of feature around the brain, didn't mean to.
Speaker B
00:10:27
Them all have a brain link, but they all have a brain link.
Speaker B
00:10:30
And you know, I was just incredibly lucky.
Speaker B
00:10:32
I think right time, right place.
Speaker B
00:10:34
I think the hardest thing with doing this process is it requires a lot of putting yourself out there.
Speaker B
00:10:42
And I have other neurodiverse authors who I'm friendly with who have been through the long process of sending out work and getting rejection after rejection which is incredibly difficult when you know, as again, ADHD is neurodiverse folk tend to suffer from RSD rejection sensitivity.
Speaker B
00:11:03
And so it's, it's really difficult going in.
Speaker B
00:11:06
And even when you're in the door you still sit there and go, but do they still like me?
Speaker B
00:11:11
Am I doing enough?
Speaker B
00:11:12
Am I working enough?
Speaker B
00:11:13
Am I, do I deserve to be here?
Speaker B
00:11:15
Because I feel like, you know, I just plonked myself in here and you know, as my friend said, a place which takes some people like 5, 10, 20 years to get into, should I be here?
Speaker B
00:11:26
All of those things start going around your head again of like, oh, you know, it's a fluke and now I've got to keep going and oh, maybe I can't, right?
Speaker B
00:11:35
Really.
Speaker B
00:11:35
And it was just this one thing and you know, I've been really lucky with Said.
Speaker B
00:11:41
We know Madeline Milburn as the agency, you know, they've been really encouraging.
Speaker B
00:11:45
We've had a few sit downs where I've been at one time like going, you know, am I pigeonholing myself?
Speaker B
00:11:51
That's the other thing I worry about.
Speaker B
00:11:52
I don't want to just talk for all, you know, neurodivergent people.
Speaker B
00:11:56
You know, I get sometimes really worried and they have to sometimes say to me to calm down and like, sort, stop overthinking it, you know, you're doing a good job.
Speaker B
00:12:05
And the fact that you sit there and panic constantly shows that you do care you.
Speaker B
00:12:10
It's so important to me that all this is done properly and inclusive.
Speaker B
00:12:14
I think there's always space for more books that talk about neurodivergence and I hope, I hope that the majority of them are written by people who have experienced it.
Speaker B
00:12:25
I think it's incredibly important we have experts who I guess, you know, study it.
Speaker B
00:12:33
But I always feel that we can see those books if, you know, I mean there's some of the books we've read before which are just facts and figures and block texts and they're very like heavy.
Speaker B
00:12:43
I think sometimes you need someone who wants to find the pride and the celebration and wants to break through that stigma again.
Speaker B
00:12:54
I say with a fire, fire underneath them to be like, no, let's change this up.
Speaker B
00:12:59
So hopefully I'm going to write some more and hopefully there are other people inspired to, to do it because I think there's always space for, yeah, more books like this in the world.
Speaker A
00:13:10
Yeah, I agree.
Speaker A
00:13:11
And lastly, can I ask, I can see, you know, now you've, you've had your diagnosis, you've written these amazing books, you maybe have found that kind of that thing that you were looking for.
Speaker A
00:13:22
Do you.
Speaker A
00:13:23
How do you feel in yourself now that you're starting to understand your brain better?
Speaker A
00:13:27
Like, do you feel that you have things under control or there still struggles for you?
Speaker B
00:13:33
I never have anything.
Speaker B
00:13:37
Sorry, I'm just going to be.
Speaker A
00:13:41
Because it's, that's so important for people to know that they're sort of hearing this and you, and you've got an agent, you've written books and you, you know, all of this.
Speaker A
00:13:49
But actually it's still a daily kind of challenge, isn't it?
Speaker B
00:13:55
Am I doing enough?
Speaker B
00:13:56
Am I saying the right things?
Speaker B
00:13:58
Am I speaking to the right people?
Speaker B
00:14:00
Am I going to be like the one hit wonder and that's it, you know, I disappear, you know, there's all of these anxieties and what comes next?
Speaker B
00:14:07
Or should I be, should I be studying more?
Speaker B
00:14:10
Should I be doing things more?
Speaker B
00:14:12
Should I be backing up a lot of, you know, a lot of my work with, you know, should I be now going to university and getting a degree in like, in all of these things.
Speaker B
00:14:19
Things and actually, you know, I have to sometimes give myself a bit of grace and patience but, you know, I, I still haven't got things together.
Speaker B
00:14:28
I mean I've just, I've just moved back to England two weeks ago.
Speaker B
00:14:32
I'm in the middle of just chaos and you know, that's my life.
Speaker B
00:14:37
It's, it's chaos.
Speaker B
00:14:39
Would I change it sometimes for a quieter life?
Speaker B
00:14:42
But also no, because I think I'd probably get quite bored without the chaos.
Speaker A
00:14:48
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A
00:14:50
Absolutely.
Speaker B
00:14:51
We have to learn to.
Speaker B
00:14:53
That's part of our, our brain and our, and our life and you know, we can learn to resent it and Hate it and, or we can just laugh at all the obstacles it throws at us if we can.
Speaker B
00:15:04
You know, I understand.
Speaker B
00:15:05
I've been, I've been in dark places too, so I do understand it's, it's sometimes difficult just to hear someone say that when you're not feeling that.
Speaker B
00:15:13
But as soon as we can kind of, kind of find the humor and find the positives that we are putting out in the world and if you've not found, you know, found that path yet, maybe it's you not finding your thing yet, as you said earlier.
Speaker B
00:15:29
But I think once we have the opportunity to work with our energy and, and to find our positives of what we are putting out there, it's easier to give ourselves a bit more patience and grace with.
Speaker B
00:15:42
Yeah.
Speaker B
00:15:43
With who we are.
Speaker B
00:15:45
But yeah.
Speaker B
00:15:46
Not using that energy as a negative source and self down.
Speaker B
00:15:51
Because even if the one thing you did today was pick up a piece of litter on the street, well, good for you.
Speaker B
00:15:56
You know, that's amazing.
Speaker B
00:15:57
And you've done something which might look like nothing but actually sure has a rolling on effect.
Speaker B
00:16:03
I think people need to, yeah.
Speaker B
00:16:05
Give themselves a bit more kindness.
Speaker B
00:16:07
So.
Speaker B
00:16:07
Yeah, but I'm just live adhd go off on a million tangents.
Speaker A
00:16:14
I just think.
Speaker A
00:16:15
No, you know what, I genuinely believe that these conversations, these honest conversations where we talk about the vulnerabilities, we talk about the successes and the strengths, but we also recognize that it's an ebb and flow and it's, we have the good stuff, but the stuff that's not so easy is challenging.
Speaker A
00:16:31
And the fact that, you know, you're openly admitting there's this imposter syndrome and anxiety and you know, externally people may be sort of seeing you as this celebrated published author, but actually just very finely beneath the surface there's all these worries and imposter syndrome.
Speaker A
00:16:49
And I think it's just important that people know that you can have the success, but there's always going to be, you know, the other stuff behind it.
Speaker A
00:16:58
So I hope you enjoyed listening to this, this shorter episode of the ADHD Women's Wellbeing podcast.
Speaker A
00:17:04
I've called it the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Wisdom.
Speaker A
00:17:07
Because I believe there's so much wisdom in the guests that I have on and their insights.
Speaker A
00:17:13
So sometimes we just need that little bit of a reminder and I hope that has helped you today and look forward to seeing you back on the brand new episode on Thursday.
Speaker A
00:17:21
Have a good rest of your week.
Speaker A
00:17:26
It.