رونوشت کامل God Doesn't Waste Your Struggles - Jake 2026

and, um, it's nice to have the extra income on the side too [00:03:07] **Jethro:** Yeah that's great So um so when we recorded last year it was in the first half of the year so it was probably um you know probably about 30 So you've done almost 100 since then it sounds [00:03:22] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah, I think it's been close to that. Yeah [00:03:24] **Jethro:** That's pretty good So what uh stay there for just a moment and tell me about how that that business has uh how that has gone in your your like work and in your what you're what you're thinking about what matters what is is valuable to you from all that What do you think [00:03:48] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah. One of the biggest things that I think about is, um, you know what would make my storybook, right? So, you know, if I were to graduate right now and move on into, into the eternities, like, what would actually, you know, what are the 15 to 20 experiences from my life that would make the pages of that book? Um, you know, is it, you know, how many childhood memories, how, you know, meeting my wife, serving a mission, stuff like that, right? Um, versus 20 years from now, how many am I gonna add in the next 20 years? As I think about most of the books that I've done, you know, there's maybe a paragraph on what the person did for a career. [00:04:34] **Jethro:** Yeah [00:04:35] **Jake Harmer (2):** mostly funny experiences or lessons, um, lots of spiritual experiences, miracles, things like that. But it makes me think, like, what do I want? What am I doing right now that I would like to be remembered for, right? Uh, so that's been, yeah, that's been really cool. Um, just I- I've learned so much about church history. I've probably done 50 books now on pioneers, and it's just amazing to me what they went through, um, for the cause of Zion, you know? And recognizing, like, okay, we're gonna uproot our family who's been here... You know, I, I don't know. I think we have a little bit of a short-term view here in the US because it's like, well, we've been here for five generations or 10 gen- you know, like, not that long ultimately. But these people leaving England, leaving Denmark, whatever, their family had been there forever. You know, it wasn't just handful of generations back. It was forever. so they were, they were leaving that. And why? It, I... You know, it wasn't because Utah was, was the Garden of Eden. You know, they were coming out here to escape persecution. that's another thing I think we whitewash a lot when we talk about church history, is there were mobs everywhere, and they hated us from, from France to England to Denmark to everywhere. And so they experienced all kinds of stuff. Um, I, I just did a book on my third great-grandpa was, uh, he served his mission with John Taylor, and they opened France. Um, which again, it's just fascinating to me that England and France have-- you know, were never friends and, you know, best of friends now than they ever be- have been in history. But they went over to France and started preaching the gospel in France. And, uh, ultimately, it was right around the time that Napoleon III a coup and took over the government and became a, you know, the emperor again and all that. And, um, John Taylor was, uh, basically, the government announced they wanted to arrest John Taylor because of something he'd published. And so, uh, he and my grandpa run over into a, a member's home, and this member offers John Taylor a gun. You know, "You'll need this to escape the country." And John Taylor His quote was something like, "Oh, do they have buffaloes here? I don't shoot anything smaller than a buffalo." [00:06:56] **Jethro:** That's [00:06:58] **Jake Harmer (2):** is great. Anyway, so then, uh, he and my grandpa escape to the sho- or to the coast, and they take a little sailboat over to the island of Jersey and, and John Taylor's able to escape back to England from there. And then my grandpa stays there another, like, four years in the mission presidency. And anyway, just to see stuff like that, I'm like, man, they, they were amazing. [00:07:21] **Jethro:** Yeah [00:07:21] **Jake Harmer (2):** the, yeah, the risks they faced and the s- the miracles that they saw, just, just amazing [00:07:29] **Jethro:** Yeah So as you think about your own mortality and what you would put in there you're not gonna have the same kind of experiences of uh most likely not of dealing [00:07:40] **Jake Harmer (2):** hope not, right? [00:07:41] **Jethro:** Yeah Um and so like how are how are you thinking about the the impact that you leave and how are you making decisions for yourself And like does that enter your enter your mind or are you just like it'll just be what it'll be What are you thinking about that [00:07:59] **Jake Harmer (2):** It does. You know, I, again, as I think about like career-wise, w- what will my storybook say my career was? Is it gonna say supply chain professional? Like that's, that's kinda lame. You know, at this point, would I include it in the book? Probably not, you know. Um, would it say... Yeah, I like to, yeah, tell people I'm a children's book author, sort of, you know. That's, that's kinda fun. That's, it's... I, I have printed now 8,000 books, or more than 8,000 books, like printed copies, right? the 120 titles, which is cool. Yeah, I don't... I mean, I don't know if I know any authors who had that many books printed, so that's, that is pretty cool. [00:08:38] **Jethro:** Yeah [00:08:41] **Jake Harmer (2):** and it's cool to imagine they're in, you know, I don't know, 7,000 homes or whatever. You know, most of them, y- you're not gonna buy a book that you're not related to, and so spreading word of mouth that way. Um, I do... I know that two of the books have gone to apostles, which is really cool, 'cause their, you know, family members found them and said, "Oh, Elder..." I won't say their names, but, "Elder so-and-so is a descendant of this person, or his wife's a descendant, and

so I'm gonna send them a copy." And that's really cool to think about, that they've got the book, and they at least maybe saw it and threw it away. I don't know. [00:09:16] **Jethro:** Who knows So let me ask you about the uh the process because if I remember correctly you were using AI for all the artwork but you were writing the stories yourself and so you've hired people to do that Did I get that right [00:09:32] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah, so I have-- it's a, a sister-in-law and a cousin, and then a, a priest in my ward here who's very mature for his age. [00:09:41] **Jethro:** That's great [00:09:41] **Jake Harmer (2):** yeah. Um, so I just basically will, as orders come in or as people pick their ancestors, I'll send that along to each of the writers and say, "Hey, do you want this one?" And they'll go out and do the research and write up the story. Um, I-- it's a, you know, it's a mix of AI and, and human writing. Um, usually I, I find for myself that I like to skim read the documents and pull out the most interesting stories to, to what I think is interesting, um, 'cause a lot of the time, like, it's a singular event that really didn't shape the person's life at all, but it's, you it shows me their, uh, personality a little bit. [00:10:21] **Jethro:** Yeah [00:10:22] **Jake Harmer (2):** I think that's one of the biggest lessons from this is I just wanna meet these people and, you know, it's hard to really understand who they are based on journal entries or newspaper articles or whatever. Wanna meet them, see what they're like. So the, you know, little pranks and funny stories like that, uh, really show, I think, a person's personality a little bit more. yeah, so we'll go through there and kinda put together bullet points of what I want the story to look like, and then from there, I usually use AI to flesh it out, kinda fill out the whole story, and then go in and, and edit and clean it up and make it, make it be what I want it to be. Um, but then yeah, the writer will send it back to me, and I go through and, and edit it again, and, and then we'll send it over to the client. Um, and then we'll go through and make any changes that they like. Some of them, uh, like to, uh, wordsmith every single page and every phrase, and we give them... You know, it's one thing I've decided is I want them to really love the book, and so we do unlimited revisions. Um, that's come back to bite me on a, a handful, but most people just like it pretty much the way it is. They'll tweak a couple of things, but [00:11:28] **Jethro:** Yeah [00:11:29] **Jake Harmer (2):** a few of them, it's, it's just about every sentence. [00:11:31] **Jethro:** Yeah Yep It's like you know you could have done a better job just writing this yourself and sending that [00:11:38] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah. [00:11:39] **Jethro:** Yeah that's funny Um so tell me about the process for creating the images Um uh I wanna I didn't ask a lot about this last year but AI has changed so much so fast that I think it's worthwhile to uh to document this the [00:11:58] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah [00:11:59] **Jethro:** and some of your processes and things like that that uh in another year or two we're gonna look back and be like Whoa that was of work that we still had to do uh with how is progressing So um so take me back a little bit and talk about what you started out using and how much uh effort and prompting needed to happen what you're using now how you've improved the workflow different things like that [00:12:26] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah. Um, when I first was starting with this, Midjourney was the, the image AI that was the one to beat. I mean, their pictures just looked so much better than everybody else's. And so that's what I did for the first couple of books. Um, it was really... The interface was really frustrating. Um, it, it was akin to coding where you'd, you'd, uh, have to put in different little short prompts and things and try and tell it the angle you want the picture from and try and, uh, remind it... Uh, you know, I was... I don't know. It just, it was very complicated. Um, and so when I look back at my first couple of books, it's like, "Oh, those are those are pretty bad." [00:13:05] **Jethro:** Yeah and real quick that's that's one thing that's so funny I um I can't remember I think I'd already written the Latterday Lent book last year and and used uh when we did our thing and and used uh ChatGPT to make all the images And and looking back at that now I'm like Oh man those those do not look good I could do so much [00:13:32] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah, yeah. [00:13:33] **Jethro:** experiencing a ton of that [00:13:34] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah, I just went through and refreshed, um, I think it was the second book that I did, second or third book that I did. I went through and redid a bunch of the pictures and expanded it a little bit. Um, I was going out to a family reunion out in Vernal, where this ancestor had settled, and so went out there and I, I brought a bunch of the books to that reunion. You know, it was a reunion for my fourth great-grandma, so there were lots of, of descendants of people, you know, I don't know and, and almost, don't wanna say it, don't, don't care to know. Like, you know, we're, we're far enough related that it's like, "Yeah, sure, we're related. You're my fourth cousin," right? But um, anyway, that, that was, that was fun to do, to go through and refresh it. But yeah, so I started with Midjourney and did that for the first little while, and then over time, uh, ChatGPT with DALL-E kind of caught up to it, and that was more convenient. Um, and I could set up a, a custom GPT in there and so it would, you know, remember and learn, as I said, "No, don't do this, don't do this, don't do this." And, and then I'll go through and do a lot of still-- a l- a lot less now, but kind of photoshopping, um, trying to clean up, like hands. Hands used to be terrible. I would go through and I would have to

add fingers in one or two pictures per book, and now it's like if I... Yeah, maybe one per book, and then I'll just respin the image and it'll get it right. [00:14:57] **Jethro:** Yeah [00:14:57] **Jake Harmer (2):** been huge. Um, consistency of characters has been very different. I used to say when I was training these writers, I would say, "Okay, you have to batch create the pictures and do it, um, in order of like, you know, you have three pictures as a kid, and then three as a teenager, three as a young adult, three as an older adult," whatever. So you create those together, even if the story bounces around, but create the images in a row and you might get a consistent character. Uh, try and get pictures from behind the person, try and get landscapes instead of people, stuff like that. And now it's... Yeah, we've got it to the point where it is consistent. It's the same person each time. Uh, you can age 'em, you can de-age 'em. It's, yeah, it's pretty good. And I, I did als- Yeah, go ahead. [00:15:40] **Jethro:** so the writers are writing the uh the images as well Is that [00:15:46] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah. Yeah, they're doing the pictures too. Yeah. So when they send it to me, it's a, it's a draft. [00:15:51] **Jethro:** Okay [00:15:52] **Jake Harmer (2):** go through and it's, it's good to have two sets of eyes. Actually, it's, it's good to have a lot more. I'm amazed. A lot of the time we'll publish the book still, and I've looked through it, the writer looked through it, the client looked through it, and usually shared it with a few other family members, and we still will miss typos and pictures and stuff like that, that, you know, where, oh, there's a, a random unidentified animal in the background, you know? [00:16:13] **Jethro:** Yeah [00:16:14] **Jake Harmer (2):** Um, but yes, then for a while, uh, this is probably starting last year at Roots Tech, I'd started doing... using face swap tools. and that way we could get it to actually really look like the people. but again, it was an extra step, and, uh, it was tedious, but it was, you know, it was really cool to see, uh, consistency. And now even, even, uh, ChatGPT will mostly do that for us. So that's... It's definitely gotten a lot easier. Um, a lot I need to continue to work on. Like there are, at Roots Tech this year, there were probably four other copycats, um, that weren't there in previous years doing similar stuff, and, uh, two of them came up to me. I was, I was kinda surprised. Two of them came up to me and straight up were like, "Okay, I've seen your stuff online. You guys do awesome work. How do you get it to be consistent? Like, how do you get consistent characters?" And I'm like, "Why would I tell you that?" [00:17:11] **Jethro:** Yes [00:17:11] **Jake Harmer (2):** know? [00:17:12] **Jethro:** called a competitive [00:17:13] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah. I'm like, "That's a trade secret, guys." Anyway, that was, that was wild to me that, um... 'Cause it did. I mean, our

sales this year were a lot lower than previous years, and that was a bummer. Um, they're pretty much all doing a full AI service though, where you go in and you do all the work yourself. And, and ours is, uh, we do it all for you, right? Even as much, you know, the research, going through, um, documents and things like that. And so that's kinda where we're positioned. Um, it would be interesting to try and set up a, a really low-cost model. Um, tho- those other ones are all basically it's a free or low cost to get started, and then if you wanna print the books, it's like 35 bucks a book. You know, it's, it's very expensive to print the books, and ours is a little bit more backwards where it's expensive at the, you know, at the setup. But then once the book's created, A, you get unlimited revisions, and then B, it's... Once the book's set up, it's cheap to print, and we want 'em out to everybody. You know, give it to all your long lost cousins. [00:18:16] **Jethro:** Yeah [00:18:17] **Jake Harmer (2):** you know, pros and cons. It's- [00:18:19] **Jethro:** Yeah But that is the cool thing that you can you can get them all for free uh [00:18:25] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yep [00:18:26] **Jethro:** and then you can uh you can buy the other ones for not that much which is which is pretty Um and then those Are those automatically Are those print on demand That's the word I was looking for [00:18:39] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah. Yep. Yeah, they're just printed through Amazon [00:18:43] **Jethro:** Yeah That's awesome Very good Well um all right So are you still using ChatGPT or are you using a different image model [00:18:52] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah, I'm still using ChatGPT for pictures and it, yeah, it's, it's been really good. What I need to do next, and again, this is if I had more time and, and, uh, energy [00:19:04] **Jethro:** Ja [00:19:05] **Jake Harmer (2):** to go out and build out the process a little bit more. Um, it's mostly consecutive like image and then work on something else and then go back and pull the images down. But I definitely, It'd be, yeah, it'd be great to get, uh, to automate more of that process [00:19:23] **Jethro:** Mm-hmm Yeah [00:19:25] **Jake Harmer (2):** and pulling it. I use Canva for staging the books and everything. It'd be great to, yeah, to be able to automate a lot of that process, pulling it into Canva, [00:19:35] **Jethro:** Yeah [00:19:35] **Jake Harmer (2):** everything organized there [00:19:38] **Jethro:** Yeah That uh I I am sure that there are there are ways to make that a little bit easier Um so when your folks your writers are are creating these they're just going into ChatGPT themselves in their own account and and creating and and doing all that Is that right [00:19:55] **Jake Harmer (2):** Dạ [00:19:57] **Jethro:** Okay right cool So last question still on AI Uh we had talked before about um video that's indistinguishable from real video Um we talked about truth and discernment Like where are you at on that right now What are your thoughts [00:20:17] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah, we talked about, um, President Nelson's quote of, "It'll be impossible to survive spiritually without the Holy Ghost," right? And, uh, seen the videos coming out of CDANCE over the last six months especially. It's indistinguishable, you know? I mean, the, the tells right now are that it's a, you know, a five-second clip and then it changes to a different view, but it's consistent. It's really high quality. Um, you really cannot know for the... I mean, like, you have to use your, um, intuition to decide is this real or not. I've seen... One of my favorites that I saw, uh, this is just a picture, but somebody posted a [00:21:01] **Jethro:** fascinating um because it's not [00:21:07] **Jake Harmer (2):** Sorry, I think we had a lag there [00:21:13] **Jethro:** Yeah [00:21:13] **Jake Harmer (2):** of the mo- [00:21:14] **Jethro:** were saying one of your [00:21:15] **Jake Harmer (2):** of the, one of the most interesting things I saw, it was a, a picture of a Monet painting. Um, and it said, you know, I, I posted this and said that AI... I created this with AI, what do you guys think? And all of the comments said, "Oh, it's terrible. Oh, you can tell if you look here," and, "Oh, it's, you can tell it's soulless," right? "And it's obviously AI." And, and then at the bottom someone was like, "Oh, actually this is a real Monet painting." None of you can tell the difference, you know? [00:21:43] **Jethro:** Yeah [00:21:44] **Jake Harmer (2):** I, yeah, we've ta- I think we talked a little bit about artists and, and all that, and I, I, I admire artists. I've tried to paint. I, I enjoy it, actually. I really like it. Wish I had more time for that too, as a hobby, but I'm never gonna get to the point where I could do anything that I wouldn't be embarrassed [00:22:04] **Jethro:** Yeah [00:22:04] **Jake Harmer (2):** to share with others. So, um, it's just, yeah, the world is changing there. Um, my books especially, these books are not gonna get made without AI. No one, no one's gonna pay $5,000 to pay an artist to create pictures for a storybook about grandma, right? [00:22:20] **Jethro:** Yeah Yeah So on that cost thing does does it uh is it uh is it working out that you're able to make money on these or are you spending so much and paying for subscriptions or whatever that it's not working out [00:22:36] **Jake Harmer (2):** It's working out. I, I pay the writers well. Um, again, they're family members, so I want them to be happy and want it to be a thing that we're working on together. Um, I'm not reliant on this money for anything. Uh, but I also... I don't want it to be the point where, you know, if I'm getting paid $10 an hour working on this, I'm not gonna enjoy it as much as if I'm being paid where it's, you know, make, to make it worth it. And so, yeah, I, I do run promotions all the time that, um, most probably 90% of the books, people are ordering a package at, you know,

$200 off or something. [00:23:13] **Jethro:** Yeah [00:23:14] **Jake Harmer (2):** And so, um, I, I need to mess with the pricing again as well. Um, yeah, it's just lots of... You know, if, if this were a full-time thing, I'd be h- I'd have a lot more time to put into it. [00:23:25] **Jethro:** for [00:23:26] **Jake Harmer (2):** now it's, it's early mornings and evenings and, [00:23:29] **Jethro:** Yeah [00:23:30] **Jake Harmer (2):** yeah, my wife's always like, "Why are you working? It's, you know, 9:00 at night." And I'm like, "Well, it's work, but it's fun." [00:23:37] **Jethro:** Well this is my hobby and it [00:23:39] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah. Yeah. [00:23:41] **Jethro:** like it's [00:23:42] **Jake Harmer (2):** Right. I'm like, "I could be watching Netflix, so..." [00:23:45] **Jethro:** Yeah Yep She's like Yeah you could be watching Netflix with me [00:23:49] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah, yeah. [00:23:51] **Jethro:** yeah Um well I think it's awesome that you've printed 8000 books and have 120 titles Like that is tremendous And you know in in eight more years w we don't know where this is gonna be but you may have um you may have given up on it you may have gone all in on it uh and you may have you know 120000 books by then [00:24:14] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah [00:24:16] **Jethro:** that I just love about it is that the stories are endless and [00:24:19] **Jake Harmer (2):** Mm-hmm. [00:24:20] **Jethro:** and there's there's so many people who have an amazing life that um that I just really love uh this this whole idea and I think that it's that it's awesome So I hope uh that this podcast uh lasts into a long time and somebody uses this as research for making your book uh after you pass So we'll see we'll see how that goes All right so let's talk a little bit about um your church service You are in the bishopric Tell me about how that's going and and what's going on there [00:24:57] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah So I'm, I'm halfway through now, assuming a five-year term [00:25:02] **Jethro:** Aha [00:25:03] **Jake Harmer (2):** sentence. Um, and so it, it's been, uh, it's been good. I'm, I'm definitely a lot more comfortable now. I... My grandpa told me when I first got called that, uh, you'll know that you're good or good, I don't know, you're, you don't look awkward when you're conducting sacrament meeting as soon as people stop telling you, "You did a good job conducting today." [00:25:24] **Jethro:** Yeah [00:25:26] **Jake Harmer (2):** And, uh, I- uh, no one's told me that for a while, so I'm feeling pretty good there. it, you know, it's, it's, uh, it's a heavy calling. Um, luckily, we, we have not dealt with much with, uh, like financial need or, or, um, even don't know, spirit- spiritual ne- I don't know what you wanna call it, but, um, we've got a just a great ward. I think one of the best things for me has just been seeing the service that people are providing for each other unprompted, unasked for, just all the time, and the willingness that, that we all have to serve each other. yeah, I... A couple of, uh, experiences that have been really impressionable for the last year. Um, had a, uh, a family that lost their, their mother, and she was 40 years old. I mean, just a terrible, terrible situation. Um, aneurysm. Like n- there's nothing you can do about that. You know, it just happened. And, um, two kids have come into Young Men's Young Women's here this year, and both of them have made comments to me that really hit me hard. Uh, one of them, we were doing a biking activity, this kid, um... Most of the kids had e-bikes. We were just riding a six-mile loop by our, our houses here, and this kid, didn't have an e-bike, um, and his gears didn't shift, and it was stuck in the hardest gear. And I'm like, "All right. I mean, it's pretty flat, but, like, you know, I have an extra bike at home if you wanna grab another bike. It's not an e-bike either." But, he goes, "Nah, it'll make me stronger." [00:27:04] **Jethro:** That's [00:27:04] **Jake Harmer (2):** And then a few months later, his sister spoke in sacrament meeting and she said, um, "God doesn't waste our struggles." You know? And that one hit me really hard. This was just a couple of weeks ago. It made me think like, yeah, you know, especially we, we studied Job last week. Like, th- what does God cause versus what does He allow to happen? Um, those are age-old questions that there aren't neat, clean answers for, but I think God doesn't waste our struggles, and it makes me stronger. I think those are, those are good answers. Um, and so yeah, tho- those, those things were great. I really enjoyed that. Um, and I've thought a lot about those things [00:27:44] **Jethro:** Yeah I do think that that is a pretty nice and tidy uh answer to that question that God doesn't waste our struggles And I I love that idea because everybody goes through struggles That is a part of life You can't do anything but go through struggles And so it's just really amazing when somebody who's young can get that And you know the way you learn that is through struggles And it's that that's how it has to be learned but it's also that that's how it has to be learned because it it's not as hard to go through struggles when you believe that that is the case And [00:28:26] **Jake Harmer (2):** right [00:28:27] **Jethro:** that's so amazing [00:28:30] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah, we had a really tough experience in the ward too this last year with, um, a, a, a convert or baptism who was flying, soaring, everything was awesome, and then One day just disappeared and came back. Um, and there were so many miracles seeing him brought into the church. It was, I mean, to the point where, uh, I had called a speaker, it was Easter Sunday last year, and I had asked one speaker to speak. Uh, we had like five lined up for short testimonies, and he texted me that morning and said, "Hey, I can't, I can't speak. I'm, I'm sick." And as I was walking in the building, there's

another guy in the ward with his exact same name, and I w- and I at him. I said, "Hey, uh, you're on the program today." And so a great guy. He, he agreed to do it. Um, you know, just again, it was just a testimony. It wasn't anything... Not a big deal. But he got up and bore an awesome testimony, and this kid had been invited to church. He's 20, 20 years old, 22 years old, never really been Christian in his life. And he shows up and, uh, sits with this family, and then dad gets up and bears his testimony, and he knows the family a little bit, and so that, that just really hit him hard. He, he told the missionaries after that, he said, "That was the first time in my life I've understood faith, like understood why people go to church and why people have faith in Christianity and all that." And anyway, he ended up getting baptized. Um, his baptism was funny, too. Uh, there was a miscommunication, and nobody filled the font. so we all get there for the baptism, and they've got the water on, and it's like six inches deep. [00:30:14] **Jethro:** Yeah [00:30:15] **Jake Harmer (2):** And so we went around... Yeah, went around the church building and found garbage cans and pots and pans and, and we're using every single faucet in the church to try and fill this thing up, and it, it just wasn't gonna get there. And so somebody volunteered, "Hey, I have a, a back- a pool in my backyard, and it's a, you know, quiet backyard. We can go do it there." And so we went over and did it in this backyard, and I was so embarrassed, you know, on behalf of the church. [00:30:41] **Jethro:** Yeah Yep [00:30:42] **Jake Harmer (2):** And so I, I talked to him, and I'm like, "Hey, d- you know, uh, you know, h- how are you feeling? I, I'm so sorry that this wasn't ready for you." And he goes, "I just can't believe all these people are working so hard to help me get baptized." And I was like, okay. Yeah, you're right." [00:31:00] **Jethro:** Yeah [00:31:01] **Jake Harmer (2):** so yeah, we, we put him to work in primary after a few months, and, uh, he was able to attend the temple and stuff like that. And then Christmas, he went home for Christmas back to Colorado and then came back out here and just disappeared. And so we, we were able to catch him, and he, you know, pretty much texted everybody individually when we would text him and just said, "I'm not interested anymore. Bye. know, I know where to find you if I need you." [00:31:26] **Jethro:** Yeah [00:31:27] **Jake Harmer (2):** by and met with him, and it was just a... It wasn't... I don't know how much of it was spiritual versus just a A mental breakdown, I don't know. Anyway, that was, that was heartbreaking, and I still hope we'll see him again 'cause he was so happy, and it was so cool to see his life just light up [00:31:45] **Jethro:** Yeah I mean that kind of stuff is really tough uh when you see that happen But it also uh I was listening to Elder Kieran's talk at Education Week um that he gave uh was it last week [00:32:00] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah [00:32:01] **Jethro:** something like that And anyway it was it was just so good and one of the things that he said was that uh God is not in a hurry And you know a lot of times we have a we have this earthly consternation about whether or not God uh you know whether or not somebody is doing what they should be doing or close enough to God or whatever the case is the reality is is that we all have our own journey to go on to get back to Christ And um and it is sometimes a skiwampus path you know Sometimes it is meandering and slow and not how we think it should be Uh and yet it is um that's all part of the plan too And so like it is it is okay that this guy is uh stepping back because um he has his own personal relationship And of course we all want it to be you know everybody's doing their time but you know everybody has to go through their own path to get back to the Savior and there's no shortcuts there's no there's anybody else can do for you You gotta do it yourself [00:33:11] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah, I was thinking about that with Job this week, that, you know, if he... Would Job be Job if he hadn't gone through all of the trials, right? The, the man he becomes, would he... I guess I, I don't know. I've always kind of looked at it like, okay, he got all his stuff back. So okay, we're back to square one. But no, he's, he is a different person at the end of all those trials, and he doesn't, I don't think he trades those trials for, for anything, you know? [00:33:39] **Jethro:** Yeah He he has to be a different person That is that is precisely what is needed to happen and that's for all of us too for whatever trials we go through [00:33:49] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah [00:33:50] **Jethro:** so that is that is necessary [00:33:52] **Jake Harmer (2):** you know, at-- going back to pioneers, that's what they went through, you know, is finding out what they were made of, and realizing what they were willing to sacrifice for the gospel [00:34:02] **Jethro:** Yeah And and I do think that there is a parallel to our lives with that Even though we may not have the exact same struggles that they did we may not deal with mobs or persecution like they did but there are other things that we need to do and one of the things that you talked about was being more uh public facing or whatnot with your with your uh social media presence and things which obviously you can do through the Family History Story Books but what has that been like for you uh over this last year of sharing your g your testimony online [00:34:36] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah. Um, so on X, I'm-- it's pretty much a church account. Um, not always as nice as I probably should be, but there are a lot of dumb people on X too, so... Um, but I al- it's funny, yeah, with, with Twitter, like, I don't... think I have one person that follows me who I actually know in real life. So it's a very, I don't know, interesting... A-a-again, it's much more social than

the other social medias, I think, or public. But, uh, like Instagram and Facebook, I have definitely posted a little bit more, and when I, when I do, I try and incorporate lot of just family values, 'cause there's just such a lack of that in the world. Um, and it is, I feel sometimes like a unicorn, like a, a 33-year-old guy with four kids and a wife and a... You know, [00:35:26] **Jethro:** Yeah [00:35:28] **Jake Harmer (2):** like, life is good, God is good. That's what, what I want people to know. At the same time, I'm not-- I haven't, like, posted just devotional content. It's usually tied to something. So, I know last year, uh, my then two year... Oh, she was two, almost three. Um, she had to have surgery, um, on her neck. She had a, a growth on her neck that, A-anyway, had to have surgery for that, and I had a just neat spiritual experience with that. Um, for her and giving her a blessing and, and feeling kind of a, an answer. And it was right around Easter, and I remember, uh, posting online about that a little bit. So yeah, I've tried to post a little bit more, um, again, without going the full influencer route. [00:36:15] **Jethro:** Yeah Mmhmm [00:36:16] **Jake Harmer (2):** Um, I do, I see so many people where-- and, and I think I'm in the same boat, where it's like, okay, I see that life is good for you, and you're attending church and, and stuff, but could use social media, w- I could use social media to share more spiritual insights and lessons that I've learned, and I, I probably should do that more. but I also... Yeah, I don't, I don't post the day-to-day stuff on social media. So it would be like, okay, do I-- am I, am I wanting to post more, or am I wanting to delete my account and [00:36:49] **Jethro:** Yeah [00:36:50] **Jake Harmer (2):** back and forth, right? [00:36:51] **Jethro:** I know Yeah that's a that's a real question is uh is is it worth more to uh Is it more worthwhile to have an account or not have an account And know I don't I don't know the answer to that And I like I almost never go on Facebook and yet I still have an account there and I'm [00:37:12] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah [00:37:12] **Jethro:** not gonna delete it uh there are times where I wanna connect it to something I don't know I mean [00:37:19] **Jake Harmer (2):** Well, and you're connecting to people that, you know, you have people on there who you're friends with. They'd be... If you needed to contact them, you add them on Messenger, right? It's... [00:37:28] **Jethro:** So [00:37:29] **Jake Harmer (2):** it's Facebook Marketplace. That's why we all have Facebook still. [00:37:32] **Jethro:** That's right man Good thing they did that because otherwise they'd be [00:37:36] **Jake Harmer (2):** yeah. Yeah [00:37:37] **Jethro:** That's funny I I do buy stuff on Facebook Marketplace regularly so [00:37:42] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yep. Yeah, me too. But yeah, I think about like, um, uh, to, to act or to be acted upon, right? So I should try and, and create

content rather than just consume it. Um, I think if you're creating, that, that's, that is good. Good for you, good for the world [00:38:02] **Jethro:** Yeah And if you can if you can be successful on there uh my wife has a a friend who was a uh an influencer in like home redesign type spaces and then she uh decided to eschew all that and just do gospelfocused stuff and uh and that's been really interesting to watch [00:38:24] **Jake Harmer (2):** she, does she have like a million followers? [00:38:26] **Jethro:** Yeah something [00:38:27] **Jake Harmer (2):** to, we'll have to talk offline. I did a book for her and, and, uh, and she ghosted me. [00:38:33] **Jethro:** Bummer [00:38:35] **Jake Harmer (2):** It was a really good book. Her grandpa was really cool, World War II story. But yeah, she disappeared. [00:38:41] **Jethro:** That's funny Good times Well uh you know people are just people so that [00:38:47] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah [00:38:49] **Jethro:** Um so one of the other things uh coming back to your calling is you have uh you're working with the young men cause you're in the bishopric and so uh you you mentioned something in our notes about setting up a longer term view of young men's and not just week to week activity to activity Tell me [00:39:08] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of buzz online and, and stuff about what we used to have in the scouting program, what we don't have now, and, and I definitely feel that. I also hated lots of aspects of scouting, so convinced that what we're doing is worse than scouting. the one thing I do miss with that is working towards a longer term goal. Like, "Okay, we're gonna set up the next four weeks, and we're gonna work on this merit badge," right? You're gonna learn an actual skill and, and practice it and put it to use. And now, the way I plan things with the boys, it's very kind of one-off. We have one hour we're gonna spend doing this, and next week we'll do something else, and it's mostly fun stuff, um, service projects, um, but not a lot of working towards bigger goals. And so that's one thing, you know, I would, I would love to see a, an Eagle Scout type award for young men to work towards, um, and a little bit more structure as far as here are the s- yeah. Here are the skills I'd like to see and, and you know, I, I actually got to the point where I wrote something up, um, call... I was gonna call it, uh, Like Unto Moroni Award and, and give the boys challenges and things. But the handbook kinda says, "Don't set goals for the youth and don't, uh, track their goals." And [00:40:31] **Jethro:** Yeah Well [00:40:32] **Jake Harmer (2):** you know? Uh, [00:40:34] **Jethro:** yeah that piece is really really fascinating because in our family we've been setting goals with the kids for uh well over a decade and it's been really powerful And it is is amazing when they set their own goals and they actually like buy into it and get it Um [00:40:56] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah [00:40:57] **Jethro:** takes a long time and there's not as much structure as when you can say Here's this you know Eagle Scout program or Young Women personal progress program that like lays everything out and these are all the things that you need to know And like that's all well and good but what's even more powerful is when a kid says You know want to overcome this challenge that I'm having and I'm gonna figure out how to do that and reach out to people to get help with that And I am I am totally on board with idea that we should not set goals for the kids and we should not be [00:41:34] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah [00:41:35] **Jethro:** But that doesn't mean that they should not set goals and that they should not be tracking them themselves But [00:41:41] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah. [00:41:41] **Jethro:** us as the adults involved to take a different approach and and to be a different kind of support for them than the one who's keeping track of all that [00:41:52] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah. Well, it, it, I think the church a lot of different things over the last five or so years, they've said, "Look, we're not raising your kids for you. We're not, uh, cultivating your testimony for you. We're not, you know, doing all these things." Like, you've gotta, you know, church is two hours now, you know, young men's program, like, we're not gonna teach your kid all this stuff. You gotta teach them. We're here to supplement, we're here to support, but it's on you, it's on the parents. And so, yeah, the parents, some of them are good at it, some of them aren't as good [00:42:25] **Jethro:** Yeah we also have to be okay with that too right Jake [00:42:28] **Jake Harmer (2):** Ja. Ja [00:42:29] **Jethro:** we we have to be okay with like yes there could be something better for this kid but they also have to live with the family that they have and and be able to do that And then we have to step up and listen to the Spirit and be involved where it's appropriate for us to be involved [00:42:48] **Jake Harmer (2):** mhm [00:42:49] **Jethro:** So how do you make those kind of decisions and say Here's where I need to step in and provide more support and here's where I need to step back and just let it happen How do you decide current calling [00:43:03] **Jake Harmer (2):** Um, a, a lot of it depends on the kid. If I know they've got... If they're pretty resilient and have, you know, good families, I can push them a lot more. Um, kinda deciding when you just need to put your arm around them versus when you need to push them, um, and, and do your best there [00:43:22] **Jethro:** I like that I like the idea of it comes down to knowing them and saying Hey we don't have we don't we don't have a like a specific plan for everybody We have a an individualized plan for you that's gonna help you And and that's that's the best way to go But um but that's a lot harder than just saying Everybody do what's in this book you know [00:43:48] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah [00:43:49]

**Jethro:** But that's the reality That's what we gotta we gotta live with Um so what are you what are you trying to do to make to set up this more longterm view and and support your your boys and other things [00:44:07] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah I, I think I need to come get the boys to have vision, right? Get them to make goals themselves, and then we can support them in those goals without tracking them, babysitting them. Uh, you know, if somebody wants to... One thing we did last year that was really good, um, in beginning of October, we announced, "Okay, we're doing entrepreneurship month, and so for the next, uh, you know, we're gonna do a couple of activities where we talk about kind of spinning up a, business, I guess." You know, it's a lot of small stuff with the boys. But we said, "Your goal is to earn $200 in the next two months, and anybody that hits that goal, we're gonna go skiing, um, in December." so ultimately, I think two boys did it. Uh, most of them didn't. Uh, they got, you know, a lot of good ideas for businesses and things, but 12-year-olds don't need money, so [00:45:04] **Jethro:** Yeah [00:45:06] **Jake Harmer (2):** uh, that was... I think, yeah, 14, 15-year-olds would've been better. But, um, I would, we're gonna do that again for sure. Um, I think it worked out pretty well, and it was a fun, fun push for them to have a little bit longer term goal to work on. And then just entrepreneurship skills are so important, especially for them funding missions and stuff like that, you know? [00:45:26] **Jethro:** yeah they're gonna be even more valuable as time goes on where you can [00:45:30] **Jake Harmer (2):** Ja [00:45:31] **Jethro:** to solve problems when an AI can do so much It'll be [00:45:35] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yep. [00:45:36] **Jethro:** what [00:45:37] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah, that reminds me, we did a, a home addition this last year, um, and had a general contractor handle, you know, a, a big chunk of it, of course, the framing and, and handle the drywall and stuff like that. But we did, uh, a lot of the finishing work, the flooring, the paint, the trim and all that. But then I also took on the plumbing and electrical. we added a bathroom and three bedrooms, basically an office and two bedrooms, and I did all that just using Grok. Uh, and, and it, it worked. [00:46:11] **Jethro:** That's amazing [00:46:12] **Jake Harmer (2):** It's... Yeah, AI, uh, yeah, you gotta use it. You gotta use it [00:46:18] **Jethro:** Yeah It's kind of crazy to think that uh I mean there are a lot of people uh you and I are certainly on the on the front edge of this There are a lot of people who you know are basically just using it as a search engine and [00:46:31] **Jake Harmer (2):** Mm-hmm. [00:46:31] **Jethro:** looking at you know what what is Instead of Googling something they're using AI to find the answers and [00:46:40] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah [00:46:40] **Jethro:** more potential there So um so that's really fascinating So

what did you do Did you uh cause obviously it's not doing the work for you but [00:46:50] **Jake Harmer (2):** Right, right [00:46:51] **Jethro:** up how to do things and how to problem [00:46:53] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah, I mean, pictures of the electrical panel and then, uh, you know, understanding code and stuff like that. Where do I need outlets? How high up are they supposed to be? Uh, how close together are they supposed to be? Um, can I put this many outlets on uh, on the breaker? You know, stuff like that. So nothing major. Again, it's-- I mean, it was fairly simple. Um, and I had an electrician tie it into the panel at the end, but just, yeah, it's funny, like you're able to just figure that stuff out [00:47:27] **Jethro:** Yeah It that is really really quite amazing Um uh anything else you wanna say about uh about um your calling and things like that [00:47:39] **Jake Harmer (2):** Um, no, I, I don't think so. Uh, I had the chance to baptize my, my oldest daughter this year. She turned eight, and that was, it was a really good experience [00:47:49] **Jethro:** That's awesome So much fun [00:47:51] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah. Well, I think the, the neatest part for me, um, before, right, we got there a few minutes early so we go get our jumpsuits on and stuff, and, and we sat down and said a prayer together, and I had her say the prayer. And it was just through her eyes, right? Seeing what she's talking to Heavenly Father about was, was really neat [00:48:10] **Jethro:** Very cool Um so you had a Last year we talked about these uh God knows me personally moments and you've been keeping a list Do you wanna share that one [00:48:20] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah, so I keep a list in my phone of, um, I just call it my spiritual list, and it's a lot of insights from scriptures and whatever else, podcasts and things. But then it's a lot of just moments when, uh, a small miracle happens. And so, uh, one of them, I had this big work negotiation, and I don't put a ton of time thinking about work, but it was one of the few times where I was, uh... you know, that I prayed about work, and as I kneel down to pray, this thought hits me, and got up and, and, uh, wrote it down in the morning, went and looked into this, and it was the answer. And it just... I mean, it was... As I was praying, the answer came, and it's something I hadn't thought about for the months leading up to this negotiation. It was, it was really cool. Um, I haven't had many of those, I feel like. Uh, w- as far as work goes, my dad has them all the time. He's always telling us, "Well, I went to the temple about this work problem and got, you know, got the answer," and, and I'm like, "I don't think about work." I don't know. I should, I should probably more, but, anyways, that was, that was neat. Just, yeah, you know, pray, pray to the Lord over your flocks, right? That's the equivalent today [00:49:35] **Jethro:** Yeah for sure Um so uh you you got four kids now and you've got um you're you're growing as a family and growing your house and working and you got the side hustle are you uh finding time to give everyone the attention that they need and give them the that they need from their dad and husband and um how are you balancing all that And it's okay if you're not but cause most [00:50:12] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah, I, I... You know, we have the things that we've decided we're gonna do, and then the way we actually do them, you know? The, the goals and, and ideas. And the ideas I think are all pretty good. Um, the idea is to do a one one-on-one date with each kid each month for each of us, right? And so they're gonna get a one-on-one experience every other week with one of the parents. Uh, we haven't been great at executing that, but it's a, it's a really good idea. Um, and then I read somewhere that e- even just seven minutes, like one-on-one with each kid each day is, is huge. And so same thing. It's, it's a really good idea. I don't know that it always happens. Um, I definitely need to be better at putting away my phone in the evenings after work. Um, it's one thing me and my wife talk about a lot. We need to do that better. Um, but you know, we, we try and do a lot of camping and stuff together, and when we're camping, that's where, you know, electronics are put away and we're very, very much fully present, and the kids love that. Um, and yeah, where I'm working on the side gig in the evenings and things, that's where, yeah, I, I... A lot of the time sitting there working on a book and working on a book and I'm like, "Why am I doing this? I don't need the money right now. I should just go spend time with my family." But, you know, it's, it's fun and it's a good thing and whatever. But yeah, I, I definitely need to be better. I, I do love spending time with them. Um, we've got, uh, yeah, all kinds of different activities that we're going on right now. Um, my wife and I did a hike to Timpanogos for our anniversary earlier this month, and so we backpacked up there and, and camped, like two miles below the summit by the little lake. And all these mountain goats came down and, uh, surrounded our tent all night pretty much, just munching away in the meadow. Um, so that was the first time we've, we've done an, an overnighter away from the kids since the baby was born. And that was great. Uh, we definitely need to do something like that every year, uh, get out. I call it an epic. We need to go do an epic every year together. and then, yeah, get the kids out on stuff too. Hopefully, next weekend I'm gonna take my eight-year-old backpacking, um, I wanna make that kind of a rite of passage thing that's w- the year you get baptized, we're gonna go on a backpacking trip together and us, right? Even though my six-year-old could probably do it too, we're just gonna go me and her [00:52:53] **Jethro:** Yeah That kind of stuff is really cool I did a 12yearold trip with each of my kids and uh and that was just it was awesome And

then last year I took my kids and my wife I took everybody on an individual trip with just me where we went somewhere uh either flying or driving but it was just us going and it was That kind of stuff is just so because uh everybody everybody wants uh the attention and the [00:53:26] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah [00:53:27] **Jethro:** time And even when you try really hard to do it during the week at home and stuff it's it's a lot different when you do like when you actually go somewhere together And it helps uh it helps everybody see what they can do by themselves that they don't do at home And [00:53:47] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah. [00:53:48] **Jethro:** fun [00:53:49] **Jake Harmer (2):** Well, and the interaction with kids especially, they're so different when it's one-on-one, [00:53:55] **Jethro:** Ja [00:53:55] **Jake Harmer (2):** you know, versus when, uh, they're all together. A lot less fighting. [00:54:00] **Jethro:** Yeah That is very true Yeah Well uh any uh any words of wisdom that you uh wanna share as we close out here [00:54:09] **Jake Harmer (2):** No, I don't think so. I, yeah, it, it was interesting the last couple of days reflecting on the, the past year, and interesting to think about what the next year's gonna bring [00:54:23] **Jethro:** Uh any uh any predictions that you wanna make for next year [00:54:28] **Jake Harmer (2):** Um, I think within a year we will watch an, a fully AI movie. know, it's not gonna be in theaters 'cause there's no way the theaters are gonna go for that. [00:54:38] **Jethro:** Ja [00:54:39] **Jake Harmer (2):** somebody like a, a Netflix or, or Amazon Prime or somebody is going to betray the studios and run an AI movie [00:54:48] **Jethro:** Yeah uh Higgsfield did release a uh a movie that was 90 minutes and was a f like full feature length and it was I didn't watch it I started to but then it wasn't intriguing to me so I I stopped But that uh I do think that is definitely gonna happen And um I think you I think you follow this guy I think Did you put it in the notes Yeah you did About the guy [00:55:16] **Jake Harmer (2):** the... [00:55:17] **Jethro:** series on the Stripling Warriors [00:55:18] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah. [00:55:20] **Jethro:** That'd [00:55:20] **Jake Harmer (2):** think that'll be cool. A- and ag- really, have a, a brother who's a, an aspiring filmmaker, and he's just bent out of shape about AI. Um, I look at it like, look, what you can do now is you can make a movie with no budget, right? Like, you can make a blockbuster with no budget that would've cost $100 million 10 years ago. Um, th- what this is doing is this is allowing anybody to be creative. So if you're really a good filmmaker, you can make that film, right? You just don't have to be the director and, and the costume maker and all that. You know, this is, this is unleashing creativity. This is not stifling creativity, know? And again, it's similar with my books, where I, I don't have to learn to paint to be a creator, right? [00:56:10] **Jethro:** Yeah Well and my my philosophy on that is that if you are uh if you are using it for good and creation then it be a Godgiven gift If you are using it things that tear people down or make things uh bad for people then you're using it as Satan's tool And [00:56:29] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah [00:56:30] **Jethro:** you know it's it it's not too hard to look at what you're creating and say This is this God and this is uh definitely not a gift from God [00:56:41] **Jake Harmer (2):** Yeah. Well, it makes me-- I was just thinking of, uh, in, uh, Ether when it talks about the brother of Jared moving the Mount Gerizim or whatever it's called. You know, uh, I don't think the Lord did that with a bunch of shovels. And someone at the time I'm sure was like, "Well, you just took away a lot of jobs by moving that mountain." It's like, well, sure, but nobody wants to go out and shovel a mountain, right? [00:57:07] **Jethro:** That is what somebody would say today for sure Yeah Very good right