AI Agents Are Coming for Your Spreadsheet | Ken Gamskjaer, Aleta: täielik transkriptsioon

that there's a really strong Nordic fintech innovation scene. 00:02:24.319 --> 00:02:41.120 Um, I know sometimes from the US standpoint, like Europe can get lumped together as all kind of like one, but it really does seem like you know, when you start taking a look at at innovation, you start taking a look at tech players, even in the family office space, there's a number from from that region. 00:02:41.120 --> 00:02:41.840 Why is that? 00:02:41.840 --> 00:02:45.120 What's driving the innovation in that particular region? 00:02:45.599 --> 00:02:47.680 Well, that's uh that's a great question, Mark. 00:02:47.680 --> 00:02:50.879 I think I think there's that's that's different factors driving it. 00:02:50.879 --> 00:02:56.479 So I think there's well, that's definitely something about trust and digitization. 00:02:56.479 --> 00:03:03.520 So in the Nordics, the the the public sector, the banking sector, they they digitize quite early. 00:03:03.520 --> 00:03:10.080 So I cannot remember being in the Nordics and have used cash like on hand. 00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:12.400 I cannot remember the last time I used cash on hand. 00:03:12.400 --> 00:03:15.280 So it's it's almost like a cashless society. 00:03:15.280 --> 00:03:22.800 And then due to the public sector also being fully digitized, there's some trust around um technology in general. 00:03:22.800 --> 00:03:28.960 And then I think there's some something about the the design focus in in the Nordics as well. 00:03:28.960 --> 00:03:35.120 There's this expectation that we want B2B software to look and feel like B2C software. 00:03:35.120 --> 00:03:42.319 Um we don't accept these kind of ocley or dated banking uh interfaces. 00:03:42.319 --> 00:03:43.840 So I think that's that's part of it. 00:03:43.840 --> 00:03:50.479 And then there's just like it's it's it's a small society, so there's a there's a strong community feed around the the fintech scene there. 00:03:50.639 --> 00:03:59.680 Um I think that since the since you've had a standalone firm, like the like what sort of founder lessons have you learned? 00:03:59.680 --> 00:04:02.800 What has been uh the pleasant surprise? 00:04:02.800 --> 00:04:05.759 And what's maybe been harder than you expected? 00:04:06.560 --> 00:04:12.879 One of the big surprises is kind of the the sheer size of this market, you know. 00:04:12.879 --> 00:04:25.040 So everyone is talking about these top hundred family offices, but but in the shadows, and and with everything that's also been happening with technology, the amount of family offices is just growing so quickly. 00:04:25.040 --> 00:04:28.879 And there's so many in what I call the shadows, you know. 00:04:28.879 --> 00:04:52.639 So so so the market size has really, it's really been been been an eye-opener to see how big this market actually is and how many family offices that are really private, that's maybe like two, four, five, seven, eight, ten people, they don't want to be public about it, but they run a family office

which which is pretty fully fledged, you know? 00:04:52.639 --> 00:04:57.519 And and there's so much more of these families than I thought in the beginning. 00:04:57.519 --> 00:05:00.879 So I think that's that's that's one of the big eye openers. 00:05:00.879 --> 00:05:17.040 And and then I would say another one is is is building purpose-built software and and being able to have that focus on just one vertical has has really led to to also providing some extra power. 00:05:17.040 --> 00:05:28.000 So whenever you say no to someone or to like a client that doesn't fit in your purpose-built software, it's actually it's so easy to to to be open to opportunities, you know. 00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:33.519 But staying focused is is is so hard, but it's also so important when building a business. 00:05:33.519 --> 00:05:38.879 Because if you want to be everything for everyone, it's it's difficult to be anything, right? 00:05:39.759 --> 00:05:47.680 Yeah, I think that's you know, that's Steve Jobs quote about it, you know, you say no 300 times to get to that one yes is really that. 00:05:47.680 --> 00:05:52.800 I I've always said it from a product, I used to be a product manager in my previous life. 00:05:52.800 --> 00:05:56.160 Like the the hard thing is figuring out what not to do when. 00:05:56.160 --> 00:05:57.439 It's not figuring out what to do. 00:05:57.439 --> 00:06:02.000 I mean, your clients will will share with you, and prospects will share with you what they need or whatever. 00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:12.000 Um, and you can have a huge list, but what's gonna move the needle, what's gonna have impact for your business, and and more importantly, for your clients, um, you really need to be focused. 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:17.120 You really need to say say no a lot and really stay true to that that ICP. 00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:21.120 Um speaking of ICP, what what is a leader's ICP? 00:06:22.079 --> 00:06:24.800 Oh, so yeah, that's uh that's a that's a great question. 00:06:24.800 --> 00:06:34.639 Just just adding to to what you just said, I think, I think especially saying no is becoming even more important now with AI because it's so easy for you to to tweak your software. 00:06:34.639 --> 00:06:38.639 So it's so it's it's it's such a trap to say, oh, you want that and that and that. 00:06:38.639 --> 00:06:41.439 Well, we can spin that up overnight for you. 00:06:41.439 --> 00:06:48.240 But but but I think also being like having the courage to challenge your your prospects sometimes. 00:06:48.240 --> 00:06:50.160 And is that really what you're looking for? 00:06:50.160 --> 00:06:51.439 Have you thought about this? 00:06:51.439 --> 00:06:57.120 Like being that thought leader that actually also go in and and and have like an educational conversation. 00:06:57.120 --> 00:07:05.279 I think that's that's also part of our job in this industry when you're kind of deep down in one vertical and sharing experience from other clients. 00:07:05.519 --> 00:07:11.920

Um yeah, you know, I do what I do find a lot of family offices are are trying to solve yesterday's problem, right? 00:07:11.920 --> 00:07:19.600 That you maybe you have new capabilities, or maybe just the way you've always done things is maybe not the way you should do things on the on a new platform. 00:07:19.600 --> 00:07:23.040 Um, I think there's there's certainly best practices, right? 00:07:23.040 --> 00:07:26.639 I mean, there's there's only so many ways that you can process a capital call. 00:07:26.639 --> 00:07:36.560 And that if you're outside of that standard deviation, that that you know, I think family officers should take a look at, hey, what is the best use of my people's time? 00:07:36.560 --> 00:07:48.319 What is the most efficient way to reduce my risk and increase my operations, uh, versus taking a look at, you know, try to solve yesterday's pain point is certainly uh what you see a lot. 00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:49.279 That's true. 00:07:49.279 --> 00:07:50.160 That's true. 00:07:50.160 --> 00:08:06.000 And getting back to that that ICP, um, so so our ICP is definitely single family office, multi-family office in the range from all the way down to 100, actually, and then up to multiple billions in dollars. 00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:22.000 So, and and what we're seeing in that space is that if they go for for some of the maybe older, bigger systems that are great for like top 10, top 10 family offices, they're not ready to hire those two people to run these systems. 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:28.319 They want something that is modern, that is lean, and and they are maybe 10, 25 people in the office or two. 00:08:28.319 --> 00:08:32.720 Um, so that's that's kind of our target segment and our perfect ICP. 00:08:33.279 --> 00:08:36.480 Yeah, yeah, I think family offices really do run lean. 00:08:36.480 --> 00:08:40.159 They they they need to find ways to do more with less. 00:08:40.159 --> 00:08:41.600 It's amazing. 00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:47.200 Um the portfolio that they have, given the size of staff that they have. 00:08:47.200 --> 00:08:54.720 Um, you've relocated to to New York City, uh, and you've started a uh a small office in the city. 00:08:54.720 --> 00:09:00.159 What's the reason be uh for the move and and how's it worked out so far for you? 00:09:00.159 --> 00:09:03.279 Yeah, so besides this winter, you know. 00:09:04.399 --> 00:09:07.200 Uh so so so far it's been it's been amazing. 00:09:07.200 --> 00:09:09.600 It's been amazing to be to be honest with you. 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:10.960 I I I really loved it. 00:09:10.960 --> 00:09:16.799 I brought my family, I brought my kids here, and everybody's happy, so that means I'm happy too, you know. 00:09:16.799 --> 00:09:23.519 Uh and I think it's it's it's really never been a question of of if, but just a matter of when. 00:09:23.519 --> 00:09:41.120 Um so we started seeing uh a lot of interest from from the US early on in Alita, and and just realizing that 50% of our potential market is here in the States, and and that we also see a higher degree of tech saviness here. 00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:42.879 It's just like I have to be here. 00:09:42.879 --> 00:09:51.120 And and and kind of merging that with a personal dream of also always moving to the states, it's just uh no-brainer for me. 00:09:51.120 --> 00:10:00.080 Uh so being kind of in in the epicenter of global finance, I think you have to be here if you want to build a world-class company. 00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:04.399 You cannot build that from a desk in Europe, it is my perspective. 00:10:04.399 --> 00:10:12.799 Um, so we're really more and more seeing ourselves as a as an American company than a uh than a Nordic company. 00:10:13.279 --> 00:10:16.240 Yeah, as I say, if you can make it in New York, you can make it anywhere. 00:10:16.240 --> 00:10:23.360 It really, I think the US market, family office market is obviously it's the largest, it's probably half, if not more. 00:10:23.360 --> 00:10:25.279 Uh, and certainly a dynamic market. 00:10:25.279 --> 00:10:32.559 I mean, there's a lot of areas that are from a family office standpoint that are that are rapidly growing, India, Singapore, Middle East. 00:10:32.559 --> 00:10:44.639 Um, how have you seen the family office's needs and expectations change over the past two, you know, few years as they're coming to you uh as a buyer? 00:10:44.639 --> 00:10:47.440 Have you seen a shift in in their expectations? 00:10:47.440 --> 00:10:51.200 Have you seen a shift in the problems that they're looking to solve? 00:10:51.919 --> 00:10:53.440 That's a great question, Mark. 00:10:53.440 --> 00:10:58.000 Um I think I think we're definitely seeing a change. 00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:03.440 I think if I should put some kind of label on it, it would it would be something like that. 00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:06.799 We've seen some kind of consumerization of wealth tech. 00:11:06.799 --> 00:11:13.039 So especially also with the next gen taking over with the great wealth transfer that's happening. 00:11:13.039 --> 00:11:18.960 So now we're uh let's say that that we're going for lunch or we order some lunch. 00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:24.879 We can we can do it right now on our app, we can follow the deliverer guy in real time until he knocks on our door. 00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:29.200 We can almost see just a second before he knocks on the door. 00:11:29.200 --> 00:11:43.519 And then when you're operating a family office, you're stuck with software that where you have to wait 30 days for your monthly PDFs, clunky software, spreadsheets, uh, and and and sometimes these systems look like they were built in the 90s. 00:11:43.519 --> 00:11:54.159 So I think with the next generation taking over and and having higher demands, I think the expectation is moving from like quarterly reporting to real-time access. 00:11:54.159 --> 00:11:58.879 They want to log in, they want to see the truth, and they want to act on it now. 00:11:58.879 --> 00:12:01.679 Um so

I think that's that's definitely one thing. 00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:05.360 And then I think there's a lot about data ownership. 00:12:05.360 --> 00:12:13.440 I think just a few years ago, a lot of clients were perfectly fine with the banks owning their data, holding all the cards. 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:24.080 But I think with everything that's happening with AI, with people being more fragmented in how they invest, they are they're starting to realize that their most valuable asset is their data. 00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:38.879 So owning that data and and having it on your own balance sheet, I think it's something that we are seeing uh more and more clients asking for how do we store our data, how do we get access to it, uh what APIs do you have? 00:12:38.879 --> 00:12:43.600 You know, they don't want just this black box, they want something that they can actually work on. 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:49.039 Um also more tech sevenness uh from a lot of clients, especially in the US. 00:12:49.039 --> 00:12:55.440 I think there's there's a lot higher appetite and also more AI-driven features in in the States than we see in Europe. 00:12:56.559 --> 00:12:58.320 Yeah, that's uh I think that's interesting. 00:12:58.320 --> 00:13:06.639 I think that the um the wealth transfer is really causing a shift in in the buyers' expectations around technology. 00:13:06.639 --> 00:13:16.159 You know, that to your point, that consumerization IT, they have it on their phone, they have a really kind of graceful uh experience maybe with the with their brokerage firm at Fidelity, at Schwab. 00:13:16.159 --> 00:13:18.480 They're seeing like near real-time information. 00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:24.240 Then they go to their family office and it's like a binder 90 days after quarter end, they're like, you know, there's a disconnect there. 00:13:24.240 --> 00:13:42.879 Like, well, I don't I I get all this information in my in my in my life on my phone, and I can't get anything on my phone from the family office, and you know, that there's got to this change, so they they want to modernize the family office, or or they're starting their own family office in many cases, and building a tech stack that that meets their expectations. 00:13:42.879 --> 00:13:45.279 I I think that that makes a lot of sense. 00:13:45.279 --> 00:13:52.320 Um, you know, family offices are notorious for being cautious when it comes to technology decisions. 00:13:52.320 --> 00:13:59.919 Uh what do you see as some of the biggest mistakes they make when it comes to selecting technology and technology vendors? 00:13:59.919 --> 00:14:04.159 And how should they avoid kind of solving yesterday's problem? 00:14:04.879 --> 00:14:06.240 Oh, oh man. 00:14:06.240 --> 00:14:20.159 Yeah, so um I think that a lot of family offices, when they when they come to us, when they reach out to us, it's a specific problem that really kind of made them make that reach out to us. 00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:27.679 It's it's like they hit a wall in Excel or in their existing legacy system, and they're like, we have to how how can we fix this? 00:14:27.679 --> 00:14:30.080 Is there some software that can fix this? 00:14:30.080 --> 00:14:39.200 And I think um sometimes there is this maybe a little bit of a need to kind of step back and and and look at that broader picture. 00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:48.080 And then I also think there's a lot of great sales guys out there, like promising that they have this all-in-one system that can do everything. 00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:54.720 So if you just if you just use our system, then you don't need Excel anymore, you don't need a CIM, you don't need a general ledger. 00:14:54.720 --> 00:15:08.960 But but I think let's be honest, I think these all-in-one systems that that promise they can do everything and be best at everything, it's it's it's it's often in a nightmare where you have this expensive monolith that nobody likes using. 00:15:08.960 --> 00:15:13.039 So I think that's that's one of the things, like getting your requirements right. 00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:24.960 I think we're lucky here in the States because there's a lot of great consultants that spend a lot of time helping, kind of defining the needs with the clients and having that experience for a broader, uh, broader space. 00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:29.360 But but I I I really I really think there's a lot to think about. 00:15:29.360 --> 00:15:31.840 Where is the family office moving in a few years? 00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:34.080 What does AI mean to my industry? 00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:49.120 It's not just getting uh this problem fixed, it's it's it's like having an architecture where I can grow upon because it's so difficult to change these systems down the line as they get viewed into your infrastructure. 00:15:49.120 --> 00:16:05.440 So it's it's difficult, you know, and and there's also this tendency to to buy maybe just the well-known names, because if it works for like uh uh 25 billion family office, then it probably also works for us. 00:16:05.440 --> 00:16:08.399 But what is it your actual needs are? 00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:12.080 Um so we're seeing a lot of different things. 00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:34.159 I think I think one of my advices would be don't buy a m monolith, build a stack, because with everything that's also happening with with AI and APIs, that the ability to to connect these systems and and and to use like this best-of-brief strategy, I think that's that's that's where there is some some value to be to be created. 00:16:34.159 --> 00:16:39.200 Um and then focus on on open systems where when your needs evolve. 00:16:39.200 --> 00:16:43.360 Make sure that you can get your data out of the system and get it back in, you know. 00:16:43.600 --> 00:16:57.759 Um Yeah, I think where regardless where you go with a comprehensive or or you build your own tech stack, the best of breed, that you you need you need to be able to plug in those systems at some point to some some part

of your tech stack. 00:16:57.759 --> 00:17:00.720 You need to be able to get data out, you need to be able to get data in. 00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:08.960 And I I do think you do you see with like family offices, like they come maybe solving a particular problem, something broke. 00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:11.839 Like the buying behavior tends to be event-driven, right? 00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:13.279 Because they're a cost center. 00:17:13.279 --> 00:17:21.200 I mean, we're talking about single family offices, not necessarily the multi-family office, but the single family office tends to be more of an event-driven uh buying process. 00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:25.680 So something broke, something not not working, or the person that that knew the spreadsheet left. 00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:34.160 And so they're looking to solve a specific problem when then maybe they should be taking a look at, you know, what is the overall, you know, what's their North Stark? 00:17:34.160 --> 00:17:36.640 Do they do they have kind of a technology roadmap? 00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:45.440 How is the how is fixing X gonna impact Y and Z and your overall tech stack and the other things that you want to do to be able to future proof your business? 00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:55.359 Um, versus just solving that that kind of individual problem and and and bringing in solutions that maybe have further ramifications and solving just that that particular problem. 00:17:55.359 --> 00:17:57.920 I I think that that's really a good point. 00:17:57.920 --> 00:18:01.680 Um we're obviously talking about best of breed. 00:18:01.680 --> 00:18:10.880 I I again I can tell where you where you land on this particular debate, you know, between the all-in-one systems and and uh and the best of breed tech stacks. 00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:15.119 How should modern family offices be thinking about this decision? 00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:27.440 Uh and obviously a lot of technology has changed in the past, you know, three, four years, but you know, frame it up for me and tell tell me how family office should be thinking about best debris versus uh all-in-one. 00:18:29.119 --> 00:18:38.799 I think there's a I think there's that's a lot of sides to that story, right, Mark, because it sounds so appealing with that all in one dream. 00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:45.440 You get one system, you don't have to deal with integrations, everybody, everything just runs out of the box. 00:18:45.440 --> 00:19:05.440 It's I I I I really see why it's so appealing, but I have not uh so far I have not seen it really work in real life, because the systems they are usually better at something than something else, if they are not like going to cost you millions of dollars. 00:19:05.440 --> 00:19:17.200 And and and I think with what how the technology has evolved, I actually think it's much easier to build that best-of-brief tech stack nowadays than it were just five years ago. 00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:23.359 So so I'm I'm definitely a big advocate

for building like a best-of-brief tech stack. 00:19:23.359 --> 00:19:39.920 So you in in instead of me in Alita having to build out a uh a general ledger, instead of me having to build out a uh uh uh estate planning tool, why shouldn't the client don't just have the ability to pick and choose? 00:19:39.920 --> 00:19:44.000 Because then then you're not also not tied in with what one vendor. 00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:51.920 So if the uh Alita system does not fit where your family office is moving, well you take out that part and put in another piece. 00:19:51.920 --> 00:19:54.160 The same goes with the estate planning tool. 00:19:54.160 --> 00:19:56.480 Take out that piece and put the other piece in. 00:19:56.480 --> 00:20:04.720 So it also gives you much more independence and less vendor login, and then having the ability to pick best of brief technology. 00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:16.640 So you mentioned asset earlier, like taking an asset for like a general ledger, combining that with a leader for reporting, consolidated reporting and investment intelligence. 00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:20.400 Well, then you already have kind of a best of brief tech stack. 00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:27.519 And and and when the systems can talk together based on APIs, then I'm I'm thinking why not? 00:20:27.519 --> 00:20:39.200 And then if you lay on top of that, that I think that a lot of these family offices are going to have their own preparatory AI agents within just a few years where they would then be talking to these different systems. 00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:41.680 So they would do all the integration work for you. 00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:49.279 So I think it's I would be I I would be worried if I were to buy a monolith system today. 00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:55.359 I like the idea of the independence that this best of brief tech stack uh gives you. 00:20:55.680 --> 00:20:58.000 Yeah, there's a lot to unpack here, right? 00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:09.599 I think uh well, first off, I don't think there's one right answer for every family office, but they're it the all-in-ones do give you kind of a it's one throw at the choke. 00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:19.039 It's it's uh simpler in terms of the vendors that you need to manage, but by definition, it cannot be the best in every particular category. 00:21:19.039 --> 00:21:35.039 I I think my thinking on this has kind of evolved a little bit in you know, not necessarily taking a look at like a thousand points of light and like a thousand little individual point solutions, but you're gonna have two kind of main pillars of your tech stack. 00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:41.279 And often that's the investment reporting side, or sometimes called the front office, Alita, for example. 00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:49.039 And then you have the financial accounting side, the general ledger, the the set of as that other example. 00:21:49.039 --> 00:21:55.599 And then off of those, you need to have the ability to be able to integrate with the with the appropriate systems. 00:21:55.599 --> 00:22:06.559 Now, on the financial accounting side, you know, we're we'd be looking to do Bill payment, for example, credit card ingestion, integrating with a bill or a ramp or those type of things. 00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:11.680 Whereas the investment side isn't going to need to necessarily worry about that. 00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:16.640 But then there's custodial data feeds and lots of different capabilities there. 00:22:16.640 --> 00:22:26.960 And then there needs to be that key connector between those two main platforms that transforms that portfolio information and the dual-sided financial information. 00:22:26.960 --> 00:22:33.279 So the investment ledger can be investment or the financial ledger can be investment aware. 00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:38.640 Doesn't need to have the full detail of it, but it certainly helps have that complete balance sheet, all the tax consequences. 00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:50.559 And like you said, the APIs and the connectivity, and even with AI being able to manage data anomalies and large data sets, like it's come a long way to be able to integrate uh tech tech stacks. 00:22:50.559 --> 00:22:56.559 And I think the key too is finding you don't need a vendor that has hundreds of integrations. 00:22:56.559 --> 00:23:04.160 You need a vendor that has the right integrations for your particular tech stack and that they're committed to those particular integrations. 00:23:04.160 --> 00:23:10.799 So it's, you know, with two vendors such as the lead and a setup working together, make sure that that integration is as best it can be. 00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:14.400 It could be important for a certain subset set of a client. 00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:26.319 So I do think it's you look at those two main pillars, and there needs to be integration off of that, regardless of what platform the these vendors need to have need to have a modern API, a secure API. 00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:29.599 It's a much more secure way to be able to transfer information. 00:23:29.599 --> 00:23:32.000 Um, and they need to have the right integrations. 00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:37.759 Because at some point, regardless which way you go, you need to plug into some component of your tech stack. 00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:41.759 But having maybe those two main pillars is is what I've I've been thinking about lately. 00:23:42.079 --> 00:23:43.920 I think that's a great perspective, Mark. 00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:45.359 And I I definitely agree. 00:23:45.359 --> 00:23:50.480 And I think it's also back to like getting that that kind of needs figured out, right? 00:23:50.480 --> 00:23:56.799 Because then it's it's much easier for you to kind of define those two pillars and see what they should actually be able to do. 00:23:56.799 --> 00:24:11.039 And then if those are built on APIs, you're not you're not locked into those two systems, then you can go about and build your own stuff on top, or you can spin up some some some uh power BI on

the side that you that you do, or like so. 00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:22.640 So I think as long as you have like the the the the the open infrastructure thinking, then the systems can talk together, but that also means that then you can also pull data out from the system, right? 00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:23.359 Right. 00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:30.319 Yeah, the the power, like a Databricks or some other uh BI tool to be able to do that that reporting you want. 00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:35.599 It's about what the family offices want to do with their data, then they should be able the ability to own their data. 00:24:35.599 --> 00:24:40.160 Uh it wouldn't be a wealth tech podcast unless we talked about AI. 00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:45.759 Let's talk about AI, hype versus uh reality or practical application. 00:24:45.759 --> 00:24:49.119 How have you seen family offices? 00:24:49.119 --> 00:24:55.440 It's almost like uh you know, a lot of a lot of folks are talking about it, but not a lot of folks are doing it. 00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:57.599 Uh almost like teenage sex, I guess. 00:24:57.599 --> 00:25:04.079 Like how how would you say uh family offices are are are implementing uh AI? 00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:08.640 And where do you see the the practicality of it versus the hype? 00:25:09.200 --> 00:25:11.200 Oh that's uh that's a great question, Mark. 00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:13.039 And I think I think you're definitely right. 00:25:13.039 --> 00:25:25.680 There's there's so much hype out there right now, and and everybody can now put their hands on on a cloth, they can build a beautiful deathball, and almost saying that they have like a well-free porting platform, you know. 00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:30.559 I think and there's so much happening just week for week in in terms of these models. 00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:43.519 I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm deep into this and I'm really following the field, but it's it's difficult, even if you're just doing your business for two days and you get back into the field, and uh there's three new models and this change this and this. 00:25:43.599 --> 00:25:46.319 And uh I think it's huge news this past week, right? 00:25:46.319 --> 00:25:48.559 I mean it's it literally shook the markets. 00:25:49.039 --> 00:25:50.480 It's it's it's insane. 00:25:50.480 --> 00:26:04.799 And and and I think what we're seeing, uh getting back to the regional differences, uh uh, as I mentioned, we're actually seeing a lot more conversations around AI with with American-based family office than we see with the family office in the rest of the world. 00:26:04.799 --> 00:26:07.200 I think that is, first of all, that is great. 00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:10.400 But there's a lot of talking about how can we actually use it. 00:26:10.400 --> 00:26:15.599 And I think right now, I right now the real value is in the boring stuff, you know? 00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:27.119 The real value is using AI for all the data ingestions, to structure all your unstructured data, to to map in your

capsule calls, your K1s, your legal contracts. 00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:36.000 And and I think there's a a lot of work that can be done automatically or at least a lot easier there right now. 00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:40.240 And I think that's that's that's something that we're seeing on our platform as well. 00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:53.759 But I also think that what is really exciting and what we're seeing among some of our most sophisticated clients, those are most forward-looking, they have started experimenting with AI agents on top of our APIs. 00:26:53.759 --> 00:26:58.960 So they would they would not say to us like develop an elite AI agent. 00:26:58.960 --> 00:27:03.279 No, they would say, well, anyways, we are connected to four or five different systems. 00:27:03.279 --> 00:27:05.680 We want to own our own AI agent. 00:27:05.680 --> 00:27:13.599 I hope to, I hope to to to do a case study soon with with one of them that we can kind of we can can can can show off and share. 00:27:13.599 --> 00:27:24.880 But it's really fascinating seeing a family office, text every family office, filling their own AI then just pulls data from Alita, uh, and seeing them then using other data sources as well. 00:27:24.880 --> 00:27:28.240 Because then that becomes their command central. 00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:36.480 And and eventually will they even have to log into Alita or will Alita just be the database storing all the data and typing all the custodial work? 00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:39.680 Because I think that's that's still a really important thing. 00:27:39.680 --> 00:27:42.480 Um I think there's a lot of talk. 00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:55.200 I only I I still see uh only a few really kind of moving the needle, but what I'm seeing there is really exciting, and I'm I'm really looking forward to sharing some of those use cases with our other clients. 00:27:55.680 --> 00:28:07.119 Yeah, I think agentic AI holds a whole nother round of possibilities and innovation and these agentic you know overlays could be really interesting. 00:28:07.119 --> 00:28:16.000 I I think to your point, like a lot of family offices have probably experienced and adopted AI via the vendors, the vendors that they're working with. 00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:22.400 A lot of vendors have used AI on on kind of the the kind of the more nasty bits, right? 00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:28.559 Around kind of data reconciliation and management of massive data sets and looking for anomalies. 00:28:28.559 --> 00:28:32.240 Uh, certainly around alternative investments, that's been a huge boon. 00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:34.799 OCR technology never really worked. 00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:48.160 I think you're seeing a lot of innovation, or there's been a lot of modernization and streamlining of that low-value first mile activity in the alt space with you know, firms like Arch and Canoe and K1. 00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:55.839 There, there's there's a really a competitive space where there's previously was like a pervasive problem with no solution just a few short years ago. 00:28:55.839 --> 00:28:57.839 So it's really great to see. 00:28:57.839 --> 00:29:00.640 And and AI has really made that that possible. 00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:06.400 But then taking the next, you know, what's the next uh you know layer out? 00:29:06.400 --> 00:29:22.400 I I do think that that natural language that you're not gonna have to know how to use the system, you're just gonna ask the system to say, hey, I would like to see all my expenses year to date for this entity, and oh, put it in a pie chart or make it a donut chart, and it will do that automatically for you. 00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:47.279 And and to your point, that the ability to maybe have these overlays where you'd have maybe a capital call that spans across two or three different systems that gets processed because the family office has set up this this AI uh agentic agent that works on the portfolio accounting system, treasury, you know, financial accounting, and make sure that all that is done and works with other agents is is really uh it's exciting. 00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:49.359 It's almost like the Jetsons, right? 00:29:49.839 --> 00:29:54.240 Yeah, it's it's I think it's I think it's going to go faster than we actually think. 00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:57.920 Uh with the speed it's of development right now. 00:29:57.920 --> 00:30:08.960 I think it's I think when we're at the end of 2026, we're going to see a lot of real-life use cases on AI agents on on top of these different uh platforms like like Alita. 00:30:09.759 --> 00:30:23.519 Yeah, I as I say the the uh the futures here is just unevenly distributed, and then a lot of this activity is going on in lots of places and and it's coming to the uh the family office market in a hurry. 00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:31.279 Um family offices that you still see you run into quite a bit, um, especially on the portfolio accounting side, right? 00:30:31.279 --> 00:30:36.559 The running uh pretty big portfolios on Excel. 00:30:36.559 --> 00:30:42.880 Does the industry need an Excel intervention squad to be able to come in and help uh some of these firms? 00:30:42.880 --> 00:30:48.799 And and at what stage the you know should first be thinking about uh you know getting off of Excel? 00:30:48.799 --> 00:30:54.240 And and why is why does this hold back family offices, the over-reliance on Excel? 00:30:55.039 --> 00:30:57.440 Excel, the Excel addiction, I call it. 00:30:57.440 --> 00:31:00.319 I I and and and I feel it myself, you know. 00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:02.160 I I'll be the first to admit it. 00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:06.160 I think I think Excel is one of the best pieces of software that was ever made, you know. 00:31:06.160 --> 00:31:17.519 Uh I've been I've been using Excel for the last 20 years, and and and whenever I have the chance to to get my data in it back in Excel and do a little bit of modeling, I I take the opportunity. 00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:27.359 But but I think and and even

though it's a great calculator, I think but I think the intervention moment is when you start using Excel as a database. 00:31:27.359 --> 00:31:39.599 Because it's really yeah, when you start using it as a system, um I think and and and seeing and and and using it as a database, I think then there needs to be some kind of intervention. 00:31:39.599 --> 00:31:40.960 Because I totally get it. 00:31:40.960 --> 00:31:45.920 You're a lean family offices, Excel is easy to use, it's easy to get started. 00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:55.279 But then when you build and build and build, you have these 40 types of links to four the workbooks and macros that only one person knows how to run. 00:31:55.279 --> 00:31:58.079 Then the risk starts increasing, right? 00:31:58.079 --> 00:31:59.920 This key person risk. 00:31:59.920 --> 00:32:08.319 And and even though that guy has been showing up to work for every day for the last 20 years, we can everyone be hit by a bus tomorrow, right? 00:32:08.319 --> 00:32:15.599 So I think I think the key person risk is is probably one of the the biggest risk factors in in staying on Excel. 00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:24.880 Um and and and and I don't think I think it's for me, it's I I would never tell potential clients to get off Excel. 00:32:24.880 --> 00:32:29.759 I would I would have the conversation of what what is it that you really need Excel for? 00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:31.039 Is it to be a database? 00:32:31.039 --> 00:32:34.400 No, that's that's just that's just to have some data to work on. 00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:39.039 So why don't we just look at what Excel is good at manipulating data? 00:32:39.039 --> 00:32:46.319 And I and I realize that a lot of our clients need to manipulate data in a certain way because their family office run in a certain way. 00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:57.680 So having the conversation around let's do all the data, the dirty stuff with the data, the reconciliation, the piping and the custodial fees, let's get that into a database that could be Alita. 00:32:57.680 --> 00:33:10.559 Then instead of you having to do that all that in Excel, I can instead give you a live connection to the Alita database where you can still use Excel and build all your ad hoc analysis. 00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:17.119 But I think I think the intervention moment is when you start using Excel as a database. 00:33:17.119 --> 00:33:19.759 Because that's that's that's what happens, right? 00:33:19.759 --> 00:33:23.839 Then you start creating sheets where you would add in all transactions and stuff like that. 00:33:23.839 --> 00:33:30.240 Um but but I think I think we're not getting rid of Excel for the next 10 years. 00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:37.440 And and I would probably still be using it in 10 years as well because it No, no, it's a it's a great tool, it's a great last mile tool. 00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:43.279 I mean it's infinitely flexible, which is the allure and also the the problem. 00:33:43.279 --> 00:33:46.000 Um it's not audible. 00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:55.359 Uh, I think there's been studies out there that uh 95 or I think it might even be higher than that, have some sort of material error in the spreadsheet. 00:33:55.359 --> 00:34:07.920 So you may be copy and pasting over some sort of formula that you didn't know about that is a performance return that that is then rippling through the system that is causing uh historical data errors. 00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:17.119 Uh I think, you know, just over reliance on something in trying to make a system in a database out of something that was never meant to be like that. 00:34:17.119 --> 00:34:22.320 It is if family offices need a more institutional grade uh product. 00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:28.559 They they need something that's a database that has permissions and controls and audibility and consistency. 00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:34.880 And like you said, if that that person that made the spreadsheet, Lord forbid, uh ends up going somewhere else or retires. 00:34:34.880 --> 00:34:40.880 Like, you know, you don't have to rely on that key man risk uh or or create that key man risk problem. 00:34:40.880 --> 00:34:43.360 So I think there's lots of issues with Excel. 00:34:43.360 --> 00:34:45.039 And I'm still always amazed. 00:34:45.039 --> 00:34:47.119 Like it's still there. 00:34:47.119 --> 00:34:58.239 It's like this universal uh it's like a QuickBooks on the financial accounting side, like you know, that there's large family offices that are still running on QuickBooks. 00:34:58.239 --> 00:35:05.280 I think it's one, it's easy to stand up, two is cheap, but I don't think that the cost is ultimately the the driver of it. 00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:07.119 I think they they have to get going on something. 00:35:07.119 --> 00:35:20.800 They stand it up with Excel, they stand it up with QuickBooks, and then it quickly outscales or guess that, but they they kind of just kind of grind through it and they they develop workarounds versus solutions, is is really what what ends up happening. 00:35:20.800 --> 00:35:26.960 Um so taking a look at the family office industry, what is your prediction? 00:35:26.960 --> 00:35:30.079 You know, will family offices modernize? 00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:36.960 Like you see many that are already starting that process, but where do you see the industry in three to five years? 00:35:38.239 --> 00:35:47.440 I think, I think, Mark, that this great wealth trends uh will will create even more need for modernization in this space. 00:35:47.440 --> 00:36:03.360 I I I think with with the next generation taking over, being brought onto the family office, being brought onto the different um uh courts in in the family offices, I I think that's going to demand uh a change and a modernization. 00:36:03.360 --> 00:36:04.800 Um I I think so. 00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:14.880 And I also think that uh we're seeing a lot of articles around the the difficulties that family offices are having hiring the right people. 00:36:14.880

--> 00:36:29.920 So if you if you if you're a family office looking to hire talent, the talent you're hiring, if you're hiring a uh a 26-year-old from from Goldman, he or she don't want to sit and and and plug in um from PDFs all day, right? 00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:33.119 They want modern technology that they would expect that from you. 00:36:33.119 --> 00:36:40.400 So I think there's multiple things that's going to to to to be catalyzation for for for this modernization. 00:36:40.400 --> 00:36:48.239 I think the great wealth transfer, I think the the talent crunch, the need for talent in these family offices is going to create a need for for more modernization. 00:36:48.239 --> 00:36:58.480 Um and and and and also of course getting back to AI, that's that's going to be uh a need for these family officers to being able to use AI efficiently. 00:36:58.480 --> 00:37:04.239 They will probably need newer systems that are not closed-end infrastructures. 00:37:04.239 --> 00:37:08.320 I I think we're going to see an uptick in in speed here. 00:37:09.039 --> 00:37:11.679 Yeah, I I do I I would agree with all of that. 00:37:11.679 --> 00:37:14.320 I do think that the pace of change will get quicker. 00:37:14.320 --> 00:37:16.800 All those factors you mentioned are are in play. 00:37:16.800 --> 00:37:25.679 You have the great wealth transfer, which is causing more family offices to be formed, or a younger generation to take over a family office with different expectations around technology. 00:37:25.679 --> 00:37:34.800 Certainly the talent crunch has been going on for a while, and that the younger generation that they don't want to pound if you know numbers into a spreadsheet all day long. 00:37:34.800 --> 00:37:38.239 They expect, you know, more modern software, more meaningful work. 00:37:38.239 --> 00:37:41.039 Uh, so to be able to address that. 00:37:41.039 --> 00:37:47.199 I think, you know, in terms of the industry, obviously you're seeing more purpose-built software, which is great. 00:37:47.199 --> 00:37:53.199 I think what's happening is that you know, family offices have more choice now, which is great, which is the good news. 00:37:53.199 --> 00:37:58.239 The bad news is that family offices have more choice, so it's causing some buyers' confusion. 00:37:58.239 --> 00:38:16.239 I I do think that there's probably going to be some consolidation in the future, or I think some of these legacy software providers that uh maybe the the platform is not enabled for AI and it because of how the architecture is, or they're not sucked to compliant. 00:38:16.239 --> 00:38:28.559 I think there's been a number of there's these zombie platforms out there that maybe have 20, 35 clients on there that have a kind of a steady client base, but haven't really grown much over the past five years. 00:38:28.559 --> 00:38:37.519 That that those firms are gonna start to get either bought up or or or should be finding a home for for their clients because it they're not gonna be competitive. 00:38:37.519 --> 00:38:41.280 Um, and then you're gonna see the a certain level of consolidation going on. 00:38:41.280 --> 00:38:44.880 I think the amount of innovation is gonna continue to expand. 00:38:44.880 --> 00:38:52.880 These family offices are gonna come with their own toolkits, uh, they're gonna own their own data, they're gonna put it in their own data lakes, they're gonna put AI on top of it. 00:38:52.880 --> 00:39:13.519 They're gonna be, you know, really progressive, and there's gonna be some some really crazy things that they're gonna be able to do with their own tech stack, as well as being able to leverage, you know, vendors like Alita and Esteta that are being able to do that processing uh for them and being able to keep good books and records for them to be able to build on top of. 00:39:13.519 --> 00:39:17.199 Um it's just a dynamic time in the space. 00:39:17.199 --> 00:39:19.760 It's really wonderful to see. 00:39:19.760 --> 00:39:33.840 And and the market has grown to the point where it will support that level of innovation and new entrants coming in, where you see VCs are willing to pay uh, you know, for vendors that are in that vertical integration. 00:39:33.840 --> 00:39:40.719 Before it was too small, now now the market's big enough where it sees the investment, and there's lots of tools out there. 00:39:40.719 --> 00:39:44.719 So it's the golden age and it's just the beginning of it, right? 00:39:46.079 --> 00:39:46.639 I agree. 00:39:46.639 --> 00:39:54.159 I think it's uh it's spot on, Mark, and I and I really agree with what you're saying, and and really exciting also to see what's what's lying ahead, right? 00:39:54.159 --> 00:39:57.280 Because it's it's such an interesting industry to be in. 00:39:57.280 --> 00:40:05.840 I think it's it's um it's it's really uh I think this space here is so sought after and it's so interesting for so many. 00:40:05.840 --> 00:40:10.320 So being in the middle of this development is just it's just fascinating, you know. 00:40:10.800 --> 00:40:12.480 It's a great space to be in. 00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:18.960 And um I like to end the podcast on a personal note with three questions that have nothing to do with wealth tech. 00:40:18.960 --> 00:40:23.360 You've recently moved to America, to New York in particular, New York City. 00:40:23.360 --> 00:40:29.679 What has surprised you the most about moving to the States and moving to moving to the city? 00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:31.199 Oh wow. 00:40:31.199 --> 00:40:36.800 I think I would say I would say I would say the contrasts. 00:40:36.800 --> 00:40:44.320 So moving to the most sophisticated financial center in the world, you know? 00:40:44.320 --> 00:40:47.920 And then I still need a check from time to time on paper. 00:40:47.920 --> 00:40:51.280 I haven't seen that in 20 years, you know. 00:40:51.280 --> 00:40:55.199 Uh so I think those contrasts, and that goes around a lot of things, right? 00:40:55.199 -->

00:40:58.800 It's the just walking around the city, you see these contrasts. 00:40:58.800 --> 00:41:01.920 But I think the contrast is just so much bigger here. 00:41:01.920 --> 00:41:05.840 Uh whether it's being in finance or in in everyday life. 00:41:05.840 --> 00:41:13.760 So uh, and and I think that's great for kind of also growing your own perspective on things, to having all those contrasts. 00:41:15.039 --> 00:41:16.079 It certainly is. 00:41:16.079 --> 00:41:20.239 Um I think what I find wonderful about New York City is just the amount of diversity. 00:41:20.239 --> 00:41:23.679 Just you be on the subway and you'll you'll hear like 30 different languages. 00:41:23.679 --> 00:41:28.719 It's it's it's a wonderful uh uh social fabric there. 00:41:28.719 --> 00:41:33.840 It's certainly there's a hustle going on and a buzz in that city that's that's unlike any other. 00:41:33.840 --> 00:41:37.039 Um what do you miss most about Copenhagen? 00:41:37.360 --> 00:41:43.760 I think if I should point to one thing, like it would be to go swimming in the ocean. 00:41:43.760 --> 00:41:49.119 So in Copenhagen, they have managed to clean up the harbors, all the water around it. 00:41:49.119 --> 00:41:52.639 So you would go swimming even for a dip here in the winter. 00:41:52.639 --> 00:41:54.719 It's the best way to like freshen up. 00:41:54.719 --> 00:42:02.480 So not having that ability, I think that that affects my work in a negative way because it really gets you fresh-minded. 00:42:02.480 --> 00:42:08.000 Uh I would love to see some of those kind of swimming spots around the uh the Hudson. 00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:10.159 Quick dip in the Hudson, yeah. 00:42:10.159 --> 00:42:17.840 Um it's uh while we're recording this podcast, the Winter Olympics are going on. 00:42:17.840 --> 00:42:22.639 There's I feel like there's some really kind of crazy winter Olympic events. 00:42:22.639 --> 00:42:24.800 Like, I I'm not sure who came up with the idea. 00:42:24.800 --> 00:42:29.679 Like, hey, go really hard as you can on cross-country skis and then give them a high-powered rifle. 00:42:29.679 --> 00:42:32.559 Like, I find that like that's more kind of form. 00:42:32.559 --> 00:42:35.760 But what is your favorite Olympic event? 00:42:36.400 --> 00:42:37.760 Oh, that's it's a great question. 00:42:37.760 --> 00:42:40.400 I uh as I mentioned, I brought my two kids here. 00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:44.960 They are small, so whenever I'm not building up Alita, I have quite my hands full as well. 00:42:44.960 --> 00:42:48.159 So I've not been watching as much as Olympics as I would love to. 00:42:48.159 --> 00:42:55.199 Uh, but I did I did watch the US play uh the hockey games and and enjoyed that and they've been doing great. 00:42:55.199 --> 00:42:58.480 So I'm gonna I'm gonna cheer for them moving on from here. 00:42:58.480 --> 00:43:01.840 So that's that's probably that's probably my my number one. 00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:06.480 But there's a lot of fun things going on in the in the Winter Olympics, definitely. 00:43:06.480 --> 00:43:13.119 I wish I had more time for for for just watching some of that just for like yeah, being curling. 00:43:13.199 --> 00:43:15.360 I mean, I can't get enough curling. 00:43:15.360 --> 00:43:19.760 And the fact is there's actually a curling controversy, so I'm like, how is that possible? 00:43:19.760 --> 00:43:33.119 Um but yeah, it's been it's been fun, it's been a great event, and and uh certainly in enjoyable, and and certainly the the uh Nordic region does very well during the uh during the Olympics. 00:43:33.119 --> 00:43:35.039 So all right, Ken, this has been great. 00:43:35.039 --> 00:43:37.280 Thanks a lot for coming on the Wealth Tech podcast. 00:43:37.280 --> 00:43:38.719 It's been a fun conversation. 00:43:39.039 --> 00:43:40.320 Thank you so much, Fuck. 00:43:40.320 --> 00:43:41.039 Appreciate it. 00:43:41.039 --> 00:43:41.920 Thank you.