TRANSKRIBEERI 🔗
WEBVTT
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Hi, welcome to the Tail Trail.
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I'm your host, Sharon.
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Also go by Sherrows 49 online, and this is my little brother Lyndon.
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How's it going?
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On this podcast we talk about stories.
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Stories in any form are welcome here.
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How's that for a new intro?
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A little more streamlined than before?
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I think so.
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Alright, well we're back at the We're still talking about Trigon.
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Part two.
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We're ha part two for the Trigon.
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Part 2.5 is something you said or something.
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I wrote Yeah, 2.5 because this is like episode 2, but then like it's the second half of episode 2.
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Alright, where did we where did we actually leave off?
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It was all over the place last time, so.
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We were talking about Legato and Wolfwood in particular.
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Mm-hmm.
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I think that's where we left off, those two characters.
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Yeah, so regarding Wolfwood, I think we were talking about how he like he's your favorite character.
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And we were talking about uh his death and why he's so different in the original.
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But I didn't fully get into how different he is in Stampede, other than having a very different personality and a different worldview.
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But I wrote a note here that says, Go back to Wolfwood briefly to discuss the significance of his cross weapon, which ironically does represent mercy in the end.
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So we mentioned that Trigan is full of cross imagery, right?
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The main cross though is Wolfwood's weapon called the Punisher, which it looks like a giant cross.
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Such a cool weapon.
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Yeah.
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Well he keeps it all wrapped up.
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And a joke in the old one is that whenever he like hands it to someone, they're like surprised at how heavy it is, because they think it's just like for a show, guess he's a priest.
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And they're like, this is so heavy, what's in it?
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That's because it's so full of mercy.
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And that's what Wolfwood always responds.
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He says, That, my friend, is because it's so full of mercy, but we know in actuality it's full of lead and missiles and other weapons, literally.
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It's like a rocket launcher in the ball.
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It's like his to-go bag of like warfare.
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It's like a rocket launcher in itself and a machine gun, and then he has like smaller pistols inside of his well, at least in the old one.
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He like pulls some like regular pistols out of it and like hands them out, I think.
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I can't remember.
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I know what that was when he was like, ah, bang, bang, bang, bang.
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Um, but it's it's funny because I feel like in the end it kind of is full of mercy because when he dies, uh we said that scene was really iconic, but we kind of forgot to say why.
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He sort of drags himself to a church while he's bleeding out and is asking for forgiveness, and thinking about his life and the people he cares about and how if he could do it over again he would have liked to do everything differently.
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And smokes one last cigarette.
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My favorite scene.
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He dies holding on to that cross, like clinging to it and leaning against it, and I like to think that he was shown mercy in the end.
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Like in that scene, the cross doesn't isn't really a weapon anymore.
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The cross is a place of refuge, which I really love.
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And then after after that, Vash takes well actually Millie takes Wolfwood's cross and gives it to Vash, which he uses in the final fight to actually defeat knives.
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So it's sort of like Wolfwood kind of lives on through that cross.
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Uh Vash even hears Wolfwood telling him what to do, kind of like imagining what he would say in that situation.
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And it's no It's really beautiful.
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I just wanted to mention the significance of that cross.
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I thought it was really cool.
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It sort of represents Wolfwood, it represents Mercy, and it is a weapon, but it's a lot more than that, and I like it a lot.
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Oh, I have an one other note about Wolfwood.
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He is an important character.
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Uh one last notable difference in Stampede's Wolfwood is Wolfwood's completely different backstory.
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There is no chapel.
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Chapel was like his mentor in the old one, that really freaky looking guy.
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Chapel.
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Chapel, and he's always holding an apple.
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No, his chapel is in like a little church.
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I know I know.
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Oh, because he's always holding an apple.
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Yes.
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Load full transcript
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Well, the apple was like this weird shticky head, but then he was like teleporting himself in different coffins, which I think is the most vampire-coated ability.
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It it's one of the most silly abilities I've ever seen in a TV show, and it made me laugh when he first did it.
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I was like, bro, what is it?
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He definitely laughed.
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But I also it makes me think like, is he a vampire or what?
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Maybe.
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I don't know why he would have that ability otherwise.
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It's just so weird.
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So in the new one though, uh Wolfoot doesn't buy his own orphanage.
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He doesn't really have like his own orphanage that he starts.
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He is from an orphanage.
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And then he just has a thing for orphanages.
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No, he wants to take care of that specific orphanage because those people are his family, but the Eye of Michael is this super messed up cult, like they act like it's a church.
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But if that's a church, then I'm a monkey's uncle, because that's that's the most diabolical evil organization ever.
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They take Wolfwood when he's a kid, and another one of the boys, Livio, and they experiment on them, and the experiments make them grow into adults really quickly.
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So I think technically Livio and Wolfood are like twelve years old, but they're walking around as adults now.
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So I don't know if if they're supposed to be like have the maturity of kids, because they don't seem like it.
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But yeah, that's very weird and messed up.
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Another difference that is actually I think a really nice one in Stampede is that Wolfwood and Livio are brothers.
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Not literally, but they love each other like brothers, and Livio becomes Livio the Double Fang, who has like these two mini punisher crosses, and Wolfwood tries to get through to him, but he's like this robot, like he doesn't act like a human anymore.
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And then Wolfwood is able to get him to remember because of how close they were, but remembering everything just makes him lose it even more because of how horrible everything was.
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So he kind of like tries to off himself, but of course it doesn't work because Livio has regeneration abilities like that are even more refined than Wolfwood's.
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So of course that wasn't gonna work, and the bad guys pick him up again, and Livio has a split personality.
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What do you call it?
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Like DID?
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I think so, something like that.
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Disassociate identity disorder, I think.
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Mm-hmm.
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So when Livio dissociates, he becomes Raslow, who is like this really psychic Raslo the tribe punisher.
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So instead of two punishers, he's got three, and he's got a third arm growing out of his back, which is mega gross.
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So Livio is a character who is in the manga, but he's not in the original anime, but he is in Stampede and Stargate.
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And I do really like the lengths that Wolfwood goes to rescue Livio slash Raslo to the point of him almost dying, just to get through to him in the vain hope that his brother will come back to his senses.
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There's this really cool scene, this is only in Stargaze.
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Well, actually, it's in the manga too, where it's a really good character design for one thing.
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Half of Livio's face is like tattooed or something.
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When he goes crazy and he's Raslo, he's got like really spiky hair on the one side too.
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He looks like he's part of some kind of band or something.
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Yeah, he lo he definitely looks like he's part of some edgy band.
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Like a a weird like kiss band or something.
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But Livio it's like Livio suddenly takes control of himself for the first time.
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Livio's voice starts talking to Raslo, even though they're the same person.
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And when Livio is talking, we go to the one side of his face that's like clean, that doesn't have the tattoo.
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And then when Raslo is talking back in the different sort of voice, we go to that tattooed side and back and forth.
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So it's like a conversation between two people, even though it's legal and it is, it's a lot like that Gollum scene actually, and I like that scene because he's like, You've taken care of me.
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Like you, it's because of you that I survived, but I don't need you anymore.
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And he's like, What are you doing?
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You need me, stop! And he's like, No, like it's time to decommission you, like I'm going to take control of my life now.
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Wow, that's a lot like me going on that.
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Cool.
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That is a lot like Gollum.
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I did not think of that.
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I was actually thinking of one of the I want to say it was one of the band of seven in Inuyasha who had the ID as well, who was like a really kind doctor or a killer, and that was really sad, because he's both.
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But yeah, I I don't know if I just like characters with DID, but I thought that was kind of a fascinating scene.
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It was just well done.
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And I like Livio and Wolfwood as brothers.
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I think that's really sweet.
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Yeah, it adds a little bit of tenderness in that edgy.
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That edgy version of Wolfwood, yes.
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Ah, one of my biggest complaints about Stampede is next on the list, uh, Merrill and Millie.
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So why don't you start Lennon?
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Like, why are they so different in the new one?
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Like what or what was so good about them in the old one?
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They were heavily involved in the uh original TV show, just much more present, like directly involved with the plot, and just much more interesting characters, and obviously more funny in my case.
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They were super funny and minor detail, I way prefer their designs.
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Yeah, no, I would say I prefer their designs.
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I don't know what they're wearing in the new one, especially Meryl, like I mean it's not bad.
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It's like a cute outfit, but it's like so it's too cute.
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Like a like a beret and like shorts over leggings or something.
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She almost seems like chucks or I don't know what she's wearing on her feet.
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I don't know what she's going for there, but in It's cute, but it doesn't look like Merrill at all, and maybe part of that is because the new one is not it's not as much of a western as the old one.
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Yeah, which is something actually I didn't really like about the new one is that it wasn't didn't feel as much like a Western.
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It leans heavy into the sci-fi, and it is a sci-fi.
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It's a space western, but it's way less of a western.
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Meryl in particular looks a lot younger.
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I feel like they were starting to build up to Merrill being more mature and more independent in Stampede after Roberto dies and she's going to take Millie on as like a new trainee.
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But in Stampede, I feel like Millie and Merrill are totally not in Stampede, sorry, in Stargase, Millie and Merrill are totally they're even more sidelined.
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Way more sidelined than they were in Stampede, and Millie isn't even in Stampede.
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Let's make you not really control the plot here a little bit and just like Well, not even close.
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Like they could have been written out, I think, in Stargase anyway.
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I mean, however, in Stampede, what's your name again?
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Merrill.
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Merrill, uh, she does like help Trigon get out of that, like Did you just call Vash Trigon?
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Oh my goodness.
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In my head, in my head when I think of Tri like Vash, like, oh, it's Trigon, you know?
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Yeah, well my bad.
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Vash Vash Trigon, I guess, because he's got the three guns, technically.
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Right.
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I think even though I thought it was because of the crosses, because like a cross has like three points, but Trigun is technically called Trigun because Vash has a gun, and then he has a gun in his arm, and then he has the angel arm.
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So three guns.
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If the angel arm counts as a gun, although it does look like a cannon, it's Pampede.
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It's a gun of sorts, but kind of.
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But uh, where was I getting it?
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Yeah, and then Vash.
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Meryl Merrill saves Vash.
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Yeah, Vash snaps out of it.
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If Merrill didn't save Vash at the end of Stampede, then the world would be doomed.
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So we owe Meryl a lot for that.
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Someone pointed out to me that that scene is a little bit like Mary finding Jesus in the tomb.
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But you could say that.
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I think that might be a little bit more of a reach, but um, I appreciate that Merrill didn't back down ever in Stampede.
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Uh, but she already had that personality in the old one.
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I think she's still really brave and has that personality in Starge, but like the plot doesn't really know what to do with her.
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I'm not quite sure what the problem is, but Meryl and Millie are in very few fights.
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They it's like they're always present, but they don't have much to do.
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And they're journalists instead of insurance agents, and I think that's much less funny, to be honest, because I thought it was really funny that they're insurance agents who are chasing Vash around because he's a liability.
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We're gonna talk about your car's extended warrant.
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They don't usually talk about insurance.
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Well, sometimes they do, they're like talking about at the beginning, they're like, yeah.
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In that one movie, they really talk about insurance of that one statue.
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But yeah, like they are actually insurance agents, and I
think even though it's silly, it's way funnier.
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Obviously, they go above and beyond as insurance agents.
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I don't know.
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Did you just say funnier?
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Yeah.
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It's more funny, okay.
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But I don't know of any insurance company that would like send agents to like monitor a situation 24-7 because of how bad that particular area is or something.
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Like in in the old show, Marilyn Milley are sent to find Vash the Stampede and like work with him to sort of get him to stop being so dangerous because he's like I think they're just they absolutely fail at, I'm sorry.
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Well, that ends up not being the point in the end, because then they're invested and they actually care about it.
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Well, I'm just saying they suck at their job, alright?
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Actually, I'd say they're very good at their job in that they're the only ones willing to put their necks on the line.
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That's true.
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And when they go back to the office, everyone's like, Why do you even do that?
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Like, why does it matter?
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That's like so stupid.
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And I'm like, well, they've got the to do it.
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I know.
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They've got the gulf.
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So they're kind of like better than all of you, even though maybe they have less numbers to show.
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I guess you're right, but they're brave.
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You gotta give them that.
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They're committed, and maybe they kind of use that as a cover because they actually care about bash, but let me tell you, uh, the taller lady.
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Millie.
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Yeah, Millie, she can fling some what do you call it?
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She can fling some metal, I'll say that.
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She can sling that gatling.
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Millie is so precious.
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She is the giantess of this show, and she might just be taller than everyone.
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It's crazy.
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She's so tall in the original.
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She gives off such like homeschooler farm girl vibes, and apparently she has a very big family.
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I think they are farmers.
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Uh so she's like very sweet and naive.
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Um, she doesn't carry lethal weapons like Meryl does.
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By the way, in Stampede, Meryl only uses a tiny gun like once.
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And then Millie, I think Millie
does use her stun gun at some points in the new one, but not very much.
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And she doesn't have that big dress that she hides it under, which was really funny.
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It's like a trench coat thing, yeah.
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Yeah, that big trench coat, which also just makes her look bigger.
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But she's already big, very broad-shouldered.
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But Merrill had like her white coat, when she opens it, it's like, yeah, a drug dealer's got like a whole coat lined with goods.
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Her whole coat is lined with derangers.
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Derringers just like.
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And she is nicknamed Derringer Merrill because of this, and Millie is Stun Gun Millie.
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Those nicknames never come up in the new one.
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Again, because like Merrill and Millie don't really matter that much in the new one, which I hate because they're so awesome.
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They had so much personality, I think.
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Cause like what other shows do you see characters like Meryl and Millie who are just storming around and taking charge of the situation?
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And like it's like they have no business being there, and yet they still command a situation.
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I don't know what you want to call it, but there are so many people around them who are like not doing anything.
00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:40.399
Like in the old one when sometimes I say they're doing more than Wolfwood.
00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:41.360
Sometimes they are.
00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:42.480
They absolutely are.
00:15:42.799 --> 00:15:45.759
Well, Wolf was just procrastinating a lot during the episodes.
00:15:45.919 --> 00:15:47.919
It's just like Wolfwood has issues.
00:15:48.080 --> 00:15:50.080
Sometimes he's doing stuff, sometimes he isn't.
00:15:50.159 --> 00:15:51.360
He doesn't really want to.
00:15:51.519 --> 00:15:54.960
I feel like these girls kick her boys into gear quite a bit, including Vash.
00:15:55.039 --> 00:15:59.919
Even Vash uh sometimes could be more involved than he is.
00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:05.759
Yeah, Merrill is a lot tougher in the old one because she actually uses she's called Derringer Merrill, she uses her guns.
00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:20.639
She for example, this one scene in the old one where everyone the whole town has gone berserk because they're trying to kill Vash to get the bounty, and it's completely disorganized to the point that the mayor even hired criminals without thinking about how much damage they would do to the town.
00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:21.200
Mm-hmm.
00:16:21.440 --> 00:16:22.159
That part was hilarious.
00:16:22.480 --> 00:16:26.240
It's absolute chaos, and the mayor is just like, oh no, I didn't think this through.
00:16:26.960 --> 00:16:28.320
The mayor is so funny, he's
hilarious.
00:16:28.559 --> 00:16:38.399
And then Merrill comes and takes a megaphone, she's like, I need to speak to the man in charge, and they're all like, We're a little busy now, and she's puts a megaphone in his face.
00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:41.120
Like, I will speak to the man in charge.
00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:44.159
Doesn't she basically like kind of fix that situation?
00:16:44.320 --> 00:16:49.919
Or she at least so enraged that she was like, she berates the mayor for his lack of foresight.
00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:52.720
Like, you didn't think something bad would happen?
00:16:53.120 --> 00:16:53.519
Yep.
00:16:53.759 --> 00:16:57.919
And he's like, at the moment at the time it really seemed like a good idea.
00:16:58.720 --> 00:17:01.279
That whole episode is so chaotic, I recommend that one.
00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:02.799
I forget which episode is that.
00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:04.079
Episode five?
00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:05.440
Yeah, I feel like it's somewhere.
00:17:05.920 --> 00:17:08.799
That's episode five because the Nebraska family are in it.
00:17:09.440 --> 00:17:10.640
I think it's episode five.
00:17:10.880 --> 00:17:13.839
And there's this run and gag with Millie and her stun gun.
00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:18.799
Uh, she keeps it under her skirt so that people don't know that she's armed.
00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:31.440
And then when they go to like bars and stuff, some of the men are like being kind of inappropriate, and Millie doesn't really care, but then the strap of her stun gun breaks, and then it falls on the toe of one of the guys.
00:17:31.599 --> 00:17:41.839
So she unintentionally like makes them back off, but then it's even worse, and she's like, Oh, I'm so sorry, this stupid sling is always breaking, and then she picks it up with one arm.
00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:55.759
She picks this massive gatler up with one arm in front of all these guys, and then they back off because they're like thinking that she's actually just pretending to be naive and she's actually gonna get them, but they're also like, How is she this drunk?
00:17:56.319 --> 00:18:05.920
And she was never gonna hurt anybody, she's just like, Oh, silly me, like like and actually means it because she doesn't really want to hurt anyone unless they are actually trying to kill you.
00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:09.359
Yeah, I really like Merrill and how she never gives up on Vash.
00:18:09.519 --> 00:18:12.640
It's kind of in both versions, but particularly in the old version.
00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:25.279
Uh, she always goes after him, including when he tells them not to get involved with him ever again, essentially because he doesn't want them to get hurt, but she does she sees that he's like gonna maybe go go past the deep end or something.
00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:34.480
And even Millie is like, if you don't see him ever again, or if you don't follow him now, there's a good chance you won't see him ever again.
00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:37.119
And and they both are like committed at this point.
00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:39.519
It's like it's no longer their job anymore.
00:18:39.599 --> 00:18:42.880
They're like, We started this thing and we're in it.
00:18:43.119 --> 00:18:44.079
And we're gonna finish it.
00:18:44.319 --> 00:18:49.200
We're in it till the end, and I know Vash is very grateful at the end, I'm sure.
00:18:49.440 --> 00:18:49.920
Absolutely.
00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:51.039
Oh, one other thing.
00:18:51.359 --> 00:18:54.319
Meryl kind of becomes Rem at two points.
00:18:54.559 --> 00:18:56.799
Once in Stampede and once in the original.
00:18:57.359 --> 00:19:02.400
So Rem being Vash's mother figure who taught him uh not to take human life.
00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:08.559
After Vash kills Logato in the old one, Merrill uh Meryl is trying to comfort him, but he won't listen.
00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:12.000
But then some townspeople like drag Vash out.
00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:20.640
Uh I don't remember well, it was for one of the typical reasons, like this guy is responsible for destroying uh this town, which is kind of true.
00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:24.799
And they're like, We we need to kill him before he does anything else.
00:19:25.359 --> 00:19:28.480
And she's like, But he hasn't done anything to you.
00:19:28.720 --> 00:19:30.160
He's just trying to recover.
00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:31.759
Like, why are you doing this?
00:19:31.920 --> 00:19:33.519
Please just let him leave him alone.
00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:39.680
And but she actually, uh realizing how important that uh what do you call it?
00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:46.880
Realizing how important that ideology was to Vash, or maybe not ideology, but that message that Rem taught him.
00:19:47.119 --> 00:19:54.799
She realizes how important it is in that it doesn't matter how logical it it is to kill someone, he in his eyes he still sinned.
00:19:55.200 --> 00:20:04.319
So she sort of takes up the mantle of being Rem for Vash in that scenario and she goes to everyone and says, You don't have the right to no one has the right to take a life of another.
00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:14.880
And she kind of spreads her arms and and tries to like peacefully resolve everything, and she kind of freaks everyone out to the point where she's able to take their guns away.
00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:42.480
And Vash sees Rem when she's doing this, and and after that he realizes that even though he made a mistake, or in his eyes he made a mistake, that he can still change because Rem also taught him that people have the ability to change and he can go back to trying to be that person again, and Merrill's the one who showed him that, so he's kind of like losing it, but hugging her too hard and stuff.
00:20:43.200 --> 00:21:00.319
He's a little maybe a little bit delirious on that part, but and then in Stampede, when Knives has Vash in that tank and he's like extracting his memories and like I can't remember exactly what he was doing, because he was using Vash Vash's power to like make
all the plants independent plants or something.
00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:07.039
And so he was like messing with Vash's memories and stuff, and the Vash was starting to turn near my brain.
00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:11.359
No, Vash is starting to turn into what looked like a carbon statue or something.
00:21:11.599 --> 00:21:21.200
But Meryl comes and she's like shooting the the bulletproof glass and like screaming at him to to remember and to wake up and No, you know what?
00:21:21.279 --> 00:21:25.599
I just realized Vash woke up because of how annoyed he was of her voice.
00:21:25.839 --> 00:21:29.519
No, actually, he didn't even know it was Meryl.
00:21:29.680 --> 00:21:32.720
In his mind it was Rem talking to him, but we know it was Meryl.
00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:35.839
And then when he wakes up, he's like, Thank you.
00:21:36.079 --> 00:21:37.359
You saved me.
00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:47.200
So there was a couple points where Merrill is very significant in particular in bringing him back from the brink or reminding him of who he is.
00:21:48.079 --> 00:21:52.400
And that's really important, but they don't really have any room for Merrill.
00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:54.319
Very little room for Meryl in the new one.
00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:59.359
If they do in the last two episodes, that remains to be seen, because those are the only episodes I haven't quite seen yet.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:03.519
But yeah, I still think it's too late for them to totally redeem that.
00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:03.839
Yeah.
00:22:04.240 --> 00:22:04.799
That's unfortunate.
00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:12.400
Merrill and Millie were really sidelined in favor of very plot heavy, complicated sci-fi stuff and a bunch of other characters.
00:22:12.480 --> 00:22:16.720
And there are way less characters in the old one, so I think that's why Meryl and Millie were so prominent.
00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:18.720
But I prefer that.
00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:20.480
But I could go on and on.
00:22:20.720 --> 00:22:21.200
Yeah.
00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:22.319
It's alright.
00:22:22.480 --> 00:22:25.279
It basically what I'm saying is Meryl and Millie.
00:22:25.519 --> 00:22:28.640
Oh! Well, here's another reason why Meryl and Millie are so good.
00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:39.519
Merrill and Millie are really funny in the old one, and their dynamic combined with Vash and Wolfwood is super funny and really enduring and kind of part of why chemistry.
00:22:39.759 --> 00:22:47.680
It's part of why you get attached to the show, but that chemistry isn't really there in the new one because Merrill doesn't talk to Vash, isn't around Vash nearly as much.
00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:51.519
Maybe in the first part of Stampede she is, but not in the later seasons.
00:22:51.759 --> 00:22:53.359
And Stampede as a whole.
00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:56.240
The tone is just not very funny most of the time.
00:22:56.559 --> 00:22:59.839
Yeah, it's more edgy, dark, and serious.
00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:06.000
Which not isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it often can be too heavy.
00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:13.680
I think you were saying it's kind of a trend for when they do like modern remakes of something to make it more edgy and serious.
00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:15.039
Yeah, common trait.
00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:18.000
And I'm not a huge fan of that either.
00:23:18.160 --> 00:23:24.000
I think it's okay for things to be a little bit lighthearted sometimes, because that doesn't mean it's not serious.
00:23:24.319 --> 00:23:28.480
The original trigon is still very serious, it's just Let me tell you something.
00:23:28.720 --> 00:23:30.720
Later on on the TV show it gets serious.
00:23:31.039 --> 00:23:36.880
Yeah, but it's also lighthearted and funny at a lot of moments, and it has time to breathe.
00:23:36.960 --> 00:23:38.880
The pacing isn't so breakneck fast.
00:23:39.039 --> 00:23:50.880
Now granted the pacing is probably too slow on the old one at first, but Yeah, I think there is a happy medium where you can have both, where it doesn't have to be like things non-stop happening, or things are always like super serious.
00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:54.240
I think people can still take it seriously if it's funny too.
00:23:54.559 --> 00:23:55.200
Absolutely.
00:23:55.519 --> 00:23:57.039
Alright, where are we here?
00:23:57.359 --> 00:24:02.319
Discuss why Vash and Knives turned out so differently despite being raised in the same environment.
00:24:02.559 --> 00:24:06.240
I had a theory about that, but what do you think, Lyndon?
00:24:06.640 --> 00:24:11.279
Why you mean why they have so uh such different viewpoints when they were raised?
00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:13.119
They were pretty much raised in the same environment.
00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:14.160
Raised the same environment.
00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:15.920
Raised by the same person.
00:24:16.559 --> 00:24:21.839
Again, it has to do with uh obviously individual minds, they take things differently.
00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:32.160
But I would say that Knives sees it as what they're doing to the plants and like but he considers the plants their uh family, like siblings.
00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:40.720
So when he sees them doing this, bra raised up in that environment, he uh more more or less develops this sense of rage.
00:24:40.960 --> 00:24:48.400
Well, I mean, not necessarily rage, like uh frustration against humans, and it sort of boils up into this hatred eventually.
00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:52.480
Which I guess kind of roughly sums up his thing.
00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:55.759
And he reads a lot of Bible and then he quotes it and it gets me upset.
00:24:56.079 --> 00:24:58.079
He reads all the worst parts of the Bible.
00:24:58.480 --> 00:24:58.880
Yeah.
00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:22.319
And ignores all the the better parts, like like the parts that are about peace and love and and the fruit, I don't know, fruits of the spirit or something, and he's just we were watching um episode 11 of Stampede today, and he was just spewing like Bible
reference after Bible reference after Bible reference, but it was all like horrible stuff like Armageddon or or like Lost Wife.
00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:24.240
I know, it's like where'd you pull that way?
00:25:26.480 --> 00:25:40.880
And it's like those are really I don't want to say they're really obscure, but they're more obscure parts of the Bible, but instead of the parts that everyone else talks about, it's like ah let's talk about genocide and and like and floods and I don't know, divine distraction.
00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:46.720
It's just like the is that the only part you read, but I don't know.
00:25:46.880 --> 00:25:48.640
I guess he had a fascination with those.
00:25:49.119 --> 00:25:49.519
Yeah.
00:25:49.759 --> 00:25:57.519
And then yeah, like that's him, and then Vash, he tries to see the good in most of the stuff they were raised in.
00:25:57.680 --> 00:26:03.839
He's more happy about stuff, more outgoing it seems, and obviously he has a closer relationship with um Rem.
00:26:04.160 --> 00:26:04.559
Rem.
00:26:05.279 --> 00:26:09.519
Which I don't want to say that Knives was jealous of that.
00:26:09.759 --> 00:26:12.880
He just didn't quite understand it as much as Vash did.
00:26:13.200 --> 00:26:14.960
I don't think Knives was jealous of that.
00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:20.240
I think Knives saw them as being kind of childish and cringy.
00:26:21.359 --> 00:26:23.279
And he was a bit more uncomfortable with that.
00:26:23.519 --> 00:26:27.039
Like when Rem goes in to hug him, it's kinda like, eh, stop, you know.
00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:31.119
And that's there totally are kids like that, and that's not bad.
00:26:31.519 --> 00:26:37.119
But it didn't help that he keeps rejecting her further when he really needs her, I think.
00:26:37.519 --> 00:26:51.599
You see that a little bit in the new one, and then uh in the old one as well, like with the infamous apple scene where Rem is cutting Vash's hair, and I can't remember why, maybe there was like an apple tree, but there's an apple in the frame.
00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:57.039
And she makes it the iconic like standing up hairdo, and and he loves it, he's so happy.
00:26:57.200 --> 00:27:02.079
But knives is watching this, and then he goes off by himself and cuts his own haircut.
00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:15.359
He cuts his own hair, but it's really like the scene has this dark vibe, like the the lighting is dark, and he's like glaring at the mirror and he's cutting his own hair, and it's like who cares if you cut your own hair in itself?
00:27:15.839 --> 00:27:21.519
But there's something there's something symbolic about this haircut where he's like, I don't want Rem to cut my hair.
00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:26.400
I want to decide who I am, and it's gonna have nothing to do with her.
00:27:27.119 --> 00:27:36.559
And when Vash comes in the room, he's kind of startled because Nigel's already cut his hair, and he's like, Oh, don't worry, I I I took care of it.
00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:44.640
I think it's better this way, and they're all like, Well, yeah, it does look like it suits you, but that you see the apple on the ground and it has a bite taken out of it.
00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:46.000
A bite out of it.
00:27:46.240 --> 00:27:53.519
So obviously that kind of calls back to Adam and Eve when Adam and Eve decided that they were going to eat the fruit anyway.
00:27:53.680 --> 00:28:00.480
They basically went their own way and they made a choice that they thought was good for them instead of what God said was good for them.
00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:09.680
Uh that's dooming all of humanity and and all that jazz, but uh of course knives is the one who causes the fall of man, a la the ships crashing.
00:28:09.920 --> 00:28:11.200
There's a difference there.
00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:15.759
I have one little note to say before I go into my theory of why they're so different.
00:28:16.079 --> 00:28:20.480
Rem seems like a really good person, but who the heck names a kid knives?
00:28:20.799 --> 00:28:22.160
Uh yeah, that's actually a good question.
00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:23.440
What kind of a name is that?
00:28:23.759 --> 00:28:25.920
I feel like she didn't have anything to do with the name of Kevin.
00:28:26.079 --> 00:28:29.839
Did he name himself because he Or did someone else name him?
00:28:30.319 --> 00:28:31.359
Or who named them?
00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:32.720
Like Yeah, that's a good question.
00:28:32.799 --> 00:28:35.599
We'll have to f find a way to figure that out.
00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:44.240
In the new one, it's kind of cringy that, like, okay, he was called Nye instead of knives because they were like, oh let's be more realistic and give him a real name.
00:28:44.480 --> 00:28:46.960
But then later he's like, I am power.
00:28:47.119 --> 00:28:55.279
I am oh I'm not Nye anymore, I'm one millions knives, and it's kind of like bruh, like that is such a teenage emo thing.
00:28:55.599 --> 00:28:56.240
And not the guy.
00:28:56.480 --> 00:29:03.039
Then again, he might have even been a teenager at that point, but it's so cringy that they have to like explain it.
00:29:03.279 --> 00:29:07.119
But at the same time, in the old one, like he was just always called knives.
00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:08.240
Like, like why?
00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:13.839
Why don't you just call him like like meat cleaver or or microwave or some random thing?
00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:20.400
Like I know, it's like it's almost like the name kind of like prophesies him being bad.
00:29:20.640 --> 00:29:21.440
Almost, yeah.
00:29:21.680 --> 00:29:29.839
It's sort of like, hey, uh note to parents who may be listening: don't name your kid Jezebel or Delilah or something, just because that that can't be a good sign.
00:29:31.759 --> 00:29:32.880
What the heck is that?
00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:34.799
Uh look it up, kid.
00:29:35.039 --> 00:29:35.759
Okay, fine.
00:29:35.920 --> 00:29:38.559
Don't call me kid, I'm a decade older than you.
00:29:38.960 --> 00:29:45.920
But my
theory why Vash and Knives are so different is that Vash turns his pain inward and knives turns it outward.
00:29:46.319 --> 00:29:47.680
That's basically what I was getting at.
00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:52.160
Yeah, and you're you're not wrong, although maybe you had a more roundabout way of saying it.
00:29:52.319 --> 00:29:56.640
And you're right that it also was because Vash was much more influenced by Rem.
00:29:57.039 --> 00:29:59.440
Vash like clung to Rem and listened to everything she said.
00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:00.319
He took it to heart.
00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:01.359
Knives did not.
00:30:01.440 --> 00:30:04.960
He wasn't really sure about what Rem was saying, he was dubious of it.
00:30:05.200 --> 00:30:12.880
And it's pretty healthy to question things, but I don't think what Knives or Vash does is healthy early on.
00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:14.079
Both ways.
00:30:14.319 --> 00:30:21.839
In the right, so I'm gonna reference a part of the manga in particular because this doesn't it's not this dark in any of the other versions.
00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:25.839
Uh, but you know when they find the remains of their sister Tesla?
00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:26.319
Yeah.
00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:30.160
In the manga they each react differently.
00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:41.920
Knives, of course, this starts his whole hatred of humanity thing, and he hates people for what they did, and he is absolutely kind of valid for that.
00:30:42.400 --> 00:30:44.160
Because that's a horrific thing to do.
00:30:44.880 --> 00:30:50.160
And of course I think it makes him trust Ram less as well, because she knew about this and she didn't tell them.
00:30:50.880 --> 00:30:53.200
And Vash actually tries to kill himself.
00:30:53.519 --> 00:30:58.160
That didn't happen in the new one or the old one, because Tesla isn't in the old one.
00:30:58.640 --> 00:30:59.759
But they didn't go that far.
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:01.039
What's her name?
00:31:01.359 --> 00:31:06.720
Her name is actually Tesla, and that's I'm sure this is long before this is long before Elon Musk.
00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:07.839
Okay, please.
00:31:08.400 --> 00:31:09.759
Elon Musk.
00:31:10.079 --> 00:31:12.480
This is long before any of that was a thing.
00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:13.759
And they just kept the name.
00:31:13.920 --> 00:31:15.200
So this Tesla existed before.
00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:17.279
No wonder why it was torn into pieces.
00:31:17.440 --> 00:31:19.119
Oh, please.
00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:22.799
I knew something I knew this was gonna come up at some point.
00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:23.759
I just knew it.
00:31:23.920 --> 00:31:24.799
It was gonna be.
00:31:25.279 --> 00:31:26.559
It was inevitable.
00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:27.039
Okay.
00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:49.039
But Vash turns his pain inward in that he would rather blame himself than anyone else for everything, because he doesn't he doesn't want to direct that pain or that anger towards anyone, because he doesn't want to hurt anyone, which is beautiful, but it's horrible for him because he kind of maybe hates himself.
00:31:49.279 --> 00:31:55.519
Like uh in the old one too, you see like when Millie and Merrill see him without a shirt for the first time.
00:31:55.599 --> 00:32:06.880
At first it's kind of funny because like they accidentally walk in on him and it's like, ah, we're so sorry, but his body is covered in like scars, and he's even got these like metal p like uh stitches or something.
00:32:07.279 --> 00:32:20.160
Yeah, literally to like cover up chunks of probably uh exposed flesh, but And part of that is because like Jesus, he's like, You can hurt me, you can do whatever you want, and I'll still love you, I'll still want to save you.
00:32:20.319 --> 00:32:23.920
But on the other hand, it's also like I deserve this.
00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:35.119
In an early episode of Stampede, Vash kinda doesn't ha show a lot of emotion to the horrible thing that just happened in the town because knives came to the town looking for him, and he killed a bunch of people.
00:32:35.200 --> 00:32:35.440
Mm-hmm.
00:32:35.599 --> 00:32:40.480
So he turns and walks away after everything is done, because he needs to go find knives.
00:32:40.640 --> 00:32:45.359
But Merrill is like, How can you just walk away after that after what just happened here?
00:32:45.599 --> 00:32:47.839
And she's angry it's because it seems like he doesn't care.
00:32:48.240 --> 00:32:49.039
She doesn't understand.
00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:54.000
It seems like he doesn't care, but he's he just says, Because I don't deserve to cry.
00:32:54.240 --> 00:32:54.640
Mm-hmm.
00:32:54.799 --> 00:33:00.640
I don't deserve to grieve, like I just all I should be able to do is stop this guy.
00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:05.119
But he doesn't deserve to like feel pain or feel angry.
00:33:05.359 --> 00:33:05.759
Mm-hmm.
00:33:06.160 --> 00:33:07.680
Unless it's towards himself.
00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:09.839
It's it's weird and it's very, very sad.
00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:10.240
Mm-hmm.
00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:17.359
Almost seems that they both like when when they react to seeing the uh sister from that uh point you were making.
00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:22.880
It almost seems like they react the simplest ways opposite to each other.
00:33:23.119 --> 00:33:23.440
Exactly.
00:33:23.519 --> 00:33:27.920
It's simple and completely opposite, and both are very understandable.
00:33:28.160 --> 00:33:28.640
Absolutely.
00:33:28.880 --> 00:33:29.759
Both are toxic.
00:33:30.079 --> 00:33:30.400
Yes.
00:33:30.559 --> 00:33:34.319
Although one is like self-destructive and the other is like destructive.
00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:35.680
It's everyone else's problem.
00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:37.519
It's just destructive outwardly.
00:33:37.759 --> 00:33:46.240
Well, I think it probably destroys knives' soul as well, but in a different way, because he will never he will never allow himself to be accountable.
00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:51.519
And another thing that I
think makes Vash and Knives so different is that Knives is a huge hypocrite.
00:33:51.680 --> 00:33:58.880
He keeps saying that Vash is a huge hypocrite, and maybe he is in some ways, because like maybe his pacifism causes more people to die.
00:33:59.039 --> 00:34:00.319
That's the argument.
00:34:00.640 --> 00:34:10.239
But you can't say that he doesn't that he intends for people to die, he's always going to save people, even at very dear cost to himself.
00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:10.800
Mm-hmm.
00:34:11.039 --> 00:34:24.000
But then Knives is like, you're such a huge hypocrite, and yet he in one sentence he says he loves his brother, he does this these things for his brother, and yet he's tormenting his brother all throughout the series and enjoying it.
00:34:24.320 --> 00:34:24.800
Mr.
00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:36.960
And he even goes against his own principles because he wants to save the plants, and then he at least in Stargate's he uses the plants to save himself.
00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:41.920
To repair his body, and that even confuses his like men.
00:34:42.079 --> 00:34:44.559
Well, actually, first it was them doing it, I think.
00:34:44.719 --> 00:34:54.159
But then when he saw that they were doing it, he went even further and they were like he's losing his original morals, and then he's just he lost his own plot.
00:34:55.280 --> 00:35:02.719
So he will he wants to save the plants, but he'll also use the plants if he has to to complete his goal.
00:35:03.039 --> 00:35:08.239
So again, he's like humans are so horrible because they use plants to survive.
00:35:08.320 --> 00:35:09.920
It's like, well, what are you doing?
00:35:10.639 --> 00:35:12.800
That's literally what you just did.
00:35:13.360 --> 00:35:19.119
So, yeah, I would like to say, screw you, knives, over here.
00:35:20.639 --> 00:35:23.519
I like raise my glass and this goes out to knives.
00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:24.000
That's right.
00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:25.039
Screw you.
00:35:25.599 --> 00:35:26.639
I hope you die.
00:35:27.280 --> 00:35:27.840
Wow.
00:35:28.639 --> 00:35:34.800
Um, then again, I did like how he got readin' in the manga, but I don't know if that's gonna happen in Starge.
00:35:35.039 --> 00:35:36.000
I guess I will find out.
00:35:36.159 --> 00:35:41.599
But um regarding Vash, there was one other moment that kind of that kind of shows this.
00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:43.920
You remember when Wolfwood killed Zazie?
00:35:44.079 --> 00:35:49.119
He he went and saw Vash and he kind of I think he expected Vash to still be angry with him.
00:35:49.360 --> 00:35:51.360
I don't think Vash ever was angry with him.
00:35:51.519 --> 00:35:58.480
But he's expecting Vash to be angry with him, and Vash just looks at him so sadly, and later Wolfwood says, He looked at me as if he had killed a tree.
00:35:59.280 --> 00:36:00.320
Yeah, the trigger.
00:36:00.639 --> 00:36:02.000
And he's like, Don't look at me like that.
00:36:02.079 --> 00:36:03.920
I'll take the blame, I'll do anything.
00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:05.280
But don't look at me like that.
00:36:05.440 --> 00:36:07.199
Be angry, do something, be normal.
00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:10.480
Isn't he threatening him with like his like cross-cutting?
00:36:11.679 --> 00:36:14.400
What is wrong with the tries to like like get him to react?
00:36:14.719 --> 00:36:15.840
Pressure him to react.
00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:18.480
It's it's touching in a weird way.
00:36:18.719 --> 00:36:24.639
It's part of what makes Vash such a emotionally impacting character or impactful, sorry.
00:36:24.960 --> 00:36:31.360
But it's also a little bit toxic in that it can be it can devolve into like self-loathing.
00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:39.119
Vash for his flaws, you can't say that he does not love people with his entire being.
00:36:39.440 --> 00:36:40.239
Literally.
00:36:40.559 --> 00:36:45.440
So yeah, I think that about covers some of the differences between Vash and Knives.
00:36:45.519 --> 00:36:50.480
And why Vash is a good guy, and knives is just not, even if he's right about some things.
00:36:50.639 --> 00:36:53.599
So is there something wrong with how he's going about it 100%?
00:36:54.159 --> 00:36:56.960
Even even if knives is right, he's wrong.
00:36:57.280 --> 00:36:59.599
There's a wrong way to do the right thing.
00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:01.679
A very, very wrong way.
00:37:04.960 --> 00:37:05.840
Alright.
00:37:06.079 --> 00:37:09.280
I think we've about reached our conclusion here.
00:37:09.440 --> 00:37:13.760
And my note about it says, Why is Trigun so impactful?
00:37:13.920 --> 00:37:16.880
i.e., why is it so good or so moving?
00:37:17.119 --> 00:37:19.199
And which version is better and why?
00:37:19.360 --> 00:37:20.880
You wanna start this one, Lyndon?
00:37:21.119 --> 00:37:22.480
Oof, that's a lot.
00:37:22.719 --> 00:37:26.719
Like, why is Trigun why how has Trigon impacted you personally?
00:37:27.280 --> 00:37:29.039
I know you made a cosplay of it.
00:37:29.360 --> 00:37:30.239
I know, yeah.
00:37:30.639 --> 00:37:31.440
That was fun.
00:37:31.599 --> 00:37:40.800
Uh yeah, the original TV show is just It has a special place in my heart just because I think it was the first anime that I officially finished.
00:37:41.519 --> 00:37:43.119
Oh, you finished it, yeah.
00:37:43.360 --> 00:37:45.599
Yeah, and I re I really, really loved it.
00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:58.559
Um just how funny it was, how you could interact with the characters, and obviously uh how it portrays uh lots of biblical uh aspects of it.
00:37:58.960 --> 00:37:59.519
Allegories.
00:37:59.679 --> 00:38:01.679
Yeah, allegories, stuff like that.
00:38:01.840 --> 00:38:03.519
So yeah, I really liked it.
00:38:03.679 --> 00:38:09.119
Um it the pacing was really good, like much better than the uh Trigon and Stargate.
00:38:09.280 --> 00:38:11.360
Yeah, I think it's way too fast.
00:38:11.840 --> 00:38:17.360
Uh yeah, too fast anyone, but yeah, if we're comparing the two, yeah, the first one's my pick for
sure.
00:38:17.599 --> 00:38:20.639
What's the main reason why the old one is better?
00:38:21.840 --> 00:38:25.119
Um how could I put this in words?
00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:34.559
Um, I'm trying to think of something like deep, just like uh Well I don't know if it has to be deep.
00:38:34.960 --> 00:38:43.519
It probably is, but Wo would you say it's fair to say that at least the majority of that TV show sums up to the message being forgiveness?
00:38:43.840 --> 00:38:44.639
Try again?
00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:46.239
Uh the original.
00:38:46.559 --> 00:38:47.920
That's possible.
00:38:48.400 --> 00:38:50.480
Why do you think it sums that up?
00:38:50.880 --> 00:39:00.079
Cause well, cause a lot of the characters in the TV sh uh in the original, their story arcs end on a forgiveness note, in a way.
00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:01.760
Do you mean like Wolfwood even?
00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:03.440
Wolfwood more so, yeah.
00:39:03.760 --> 00:39:06.079
You think he forgives Chapel or something?
00:39:06.400 --> 00:39:10.880
Oh yeah, I think uh in that that one scene he's for he's obviously asking for forgiveness.
00:39:11.199 --> 00:39:13.599
He he forgives him I think he has to forgive himself.
00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:15.280
He's asking for his own forgiveness.
00:39:15.519 --> 00:39:17.119
I don't know if he's forgiving other people.
00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:18.480
He just realizes that he was wrong.
00:39:18.719 --> 00:39:19.760
Yeah, no, I never said he was forgiven.
00:39:19.920 --> 00:39:21.360
But he doesn't hate people anymore.
00:39:21.679 --> 00:39:23.519
But he doesn't hate people anymore.
00:39:23.760 --> 00:39:32.239
He uh is repenting and is asking for forgiveness, and it's a in that particular scene is one of my favorite scenes, probably of all time.
00:39:32.320 --> 00:39:34.159
Uh well mine too, actually.
00:39:34.559 --> 00:39:40.880
It it's super impactful, so that scene, probably in particular, is a really good reason why I love it so much.
00:39:40.960 --> 00:39:41.679
It was really impactful.
00:39:42.159 --> 00:39:45.280
So without that scene, would you still think the old one is better?
00:39:45.440 --> 00:39:45.840
Probably.
00:39:46.079 --> 00:39:46.719
Oh yeah, definitely.
00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:48.079
So that's again, yeah.
00:39:48.239 --> 00:39:50.239
Yeah, it has to do with certain aspects.
00:39:50.400 --> 00:39:53.599
Like the f the new one, not nearly as funny again.
00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:54.320
That's a good one.
00:39:54.480 --> 00:39:57.119
Some of the characters are just not even there.
00:39:58.320 --> 00:39:58.559
I know.
00:39:58.880 --> 00:39:59.599
Million barrel.
00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:06.400
Again, so yeah, I'd say the main reason why I why I like the old one better is that it just had more.
00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:08.079
That's what I would say.
00:40:08.320 --> 00:40:10.239
I would almost say it has less.
00:40:10.480 --> 00:40:11.920
But that's a good thing.
00:40:12.639 --> 00:40:13.679
It's a minimalist.
00:40:14.320 --> 00:40:17.679
I mean it had more as in it had more of everything.
00:40:17.840 --> 00:40:18.239
The new one.
00:40:18.800 --> 00:40:20.480
More depth and more characterization.
00:40:20.639 --> 00:40:24.639
But the new s new one is like crammed full of characters and things happening.
00:40:24.960 --> 00:40:25.920
Too much in another way, yeah.
00:40:26.239 --> 00:40:27.119
So it's too much.
00:40:27.280 --> 00:40:31.920
So when you have more, you almost have less of what actually matters sometimes.
00:40:32.239 --> 00:40:34.800
Overcrowded movies are a thing.
00:40:35.039 --> 00:40:39.119
Or in this case a series, but that's a pretty good answer.
00:40:39.280 --> 00:40:39.840
That's a good answer.
00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:40.239
Yeah.
00:40:40.480 --> 00:40:45.039
I almost you said you want to sum up the show saying that's about forgiveness.
00:40:45.280 --> 00:40:51.599
I almost want to say it's a very At least Wolfwood's Wolfwood's um um storyline.
00:40:51.840 --> 00:40:53.519
Yeah, yeah, you could say that.
00:40:53.679 --> 00:40:59.840
I would almost sum up Trigan in being about redemption, or maybe what Vash says.
00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:06.639
Vash says this world is made of love and peace, and it's like this cheesy one-liner that everyone's like, oh brother.
00:41:07.360 --> 00:41:08.159
No, it's hard.
00:41:08.480 --> 00:41:10.239
It's not he's right.
00:41:10.400 --> 00:41:18.559
Like the sh he goes to insane, inhuman lengths to live at peace with everyone.
00:41:18.719 --> 00:41:20.880
And I mean everyone.
00:41:21.519 --> 00:41:22.480
Yeah, no, you're right.
00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:24.559
I would probably sum it up like you're saying.
00:41:24.960 --> 00:41:25.760
And why?
00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:27.920
Because he loves everyone.
00:41:28.159 --> 00:41:30.000
So love and peace is Vash.
00:41:30.079 --> 00:41:32.719
Like if Vash is uh is anything, he's love and peace.
00:41:32.800 --> 00:41:36.480
You know how they say that God is love, Vash is love and peace.
00:41:36.800 --> 00:41:43.519
Because he's a pacifist to a fault, and he loves people to his own detriment.
00:41:43.920 --> 00:41:54.559
Okay, there, there, that's probably another reason why I love just uh Triagan as like a storyline, is because it portrays that so well in a character and in a new way.
00:41:54.800 --> 00:42:02.480
I think it would be really easy to depict someone like that in a laughable way that you couldn't take seriously, and yet somehow you do.
00:42:02.719 --> 00:42:06.800
Vash is a character who is really hard not to love.
00:42:07.039 --> 00:42:25.199
If an edgelord like Wolfwood can even love him and admit he's infectious, then I mean that's a pretty good example of why it's so hard to ignore, like it's so shocking, but even if you don't agree with him or something, or if you think that's ridiculous, it sticks with you.
00:42:25.440 --> 00:42:26.559
You can't forget it.
00:42:26.639 --> 00:42:29.360
It's unforgettable the way Rash treats
people.
00:42:29.440 --> 00:42:32.400
It's just not not the way people usually treat each other.
00:42:32.639 --> 00:42:33.039
Mm-hmm.
00:42:33.199 --> 00:42:33.599
Absolutely.
00:42:33.840 --> 00:42:37.679
And you could say it's dumb or you could say it's foolish.
00:42:38.239 --> 00:42:42.800
But I think God's love looks foolish to humans anyway.
00:42:43.199 --> 00:42:48.719
So it's supposed to be foolish, and yet it's it's not the fool the kind of foolishness you dismiss.
00:42:48.880 --> 00:42:50.800
You you can't look away from it.
00:42:51.039 --> 00:42:53.199
There's something so beautiful about it.
00:42:53.519 --> 00:42:59.039
So for me, how Trigon has impacted me is maybe similar to you.
00:42:59.199 --> 00:43:12.079
I think I watched it and I first watched Stampede actually, and I thought it was really fascinating, but I didn't love it until I watched the old one, and then the whole thing started making more sense to me, especially as an allegory.
00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:22.159
And just again, talking a bit more about Vash as a character, it it really gets me every time because I don't think you see that too often to that level.
00:43:22.320 --> 00:43:39.920
I think you do sometimes in anime, like I think Tanjiro in Demon Slayer is a bit like this, uh, like kind to uh Falms in a in a yeah, in a very beautiful way, like where he like prays for the monster that just you know tried to kill him.
00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:42.960
Although the huge difference is that Tanjiro actually does kill people.
00:43:43.199 --> 00:43:44.719
But or demons anyway.
00:43:44.960 --> 00:43:47.280
But demons used to be people in Demon Slayer.
00:43:47.519 --> 00:43:49.280
Come on, knives is practically a demon.
00:43:50.400 --> 00:43:53.519
Yeah, Tantra would kill knives, but Bash won't.
00:43:53.760 --> 00:43:58.559
Um another character who's a bit like that is Shy in the Shy series.
00:43:58.719 --> 00:44:05.679
Uh it's a It's actually not about it's it the name is weird because that's her superhero name for some reason.
00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:20.960
But just having like almost like fighting the bad guys with love is it's something that seems like it would never work and is really stupid, and yet in these stories it actually is amazing to watch.
00:44:21.280 --> 00:44:33.679
It is so moving, and if you don't if you're not rooting for that person, it's like you don't have a heart because that is they are so they're so wonderful, they're wonderful people, and they're not wimps either.
00:44:33.840 --> 00:44:36.320
Like there's there's a backbone to what they're saying.
00:44:36.559 --> 00:44:40.480
They're not just being all wishy-washy like oh love and peace is great.
00:44:40.639 --> 00:44:48.079
No, they can back that up with their whole lives, with who they are, and with their actions, to the point where, yeah, they'll take it.
00:44:48.159 --> 00:44:57.280
They'll take the worst beating imaginable and and then still be able to say something kind about the
person inflicting the beating.
00:44:57.519 --> 00:45:06.079
Another thing I wanted to say about Vash is that he is often accused of forcing his ideals onto people, onto other people in the show.
00:45:06.320 --> 00:45:08.079
But I think this is not true.
00:45:08.320 --> 00:45:17.760
Like Wolfwood accuses him of this, I think maybe Knives accuses him of this, but people are always like, Oh, spare me your shiny ideals and whatnot.
00:45:17.920 --> 00:45:25.440
I think Vash pleads with people, but he never forces them to do what he would do.
00:45:25.599 --> 00:45:27.679
He does not force them physically.
00:45:27.920 --> 00:45:30.239
He he implores them to do things differently.
00:45:30.480 --> 00:45:35.199
Uh one of a couple of examples, um, in the old series in particular.
00:45:35.440 --> 00:45:49.199
There was an episode where this uh this woman goes to I think she goes to kill it turns out her father was was a bad person and she was gonna she was gonna kill him for what he did.
00:45:50.159 --> 00:45:54.800
Or actually she was gonna kill the the guy who was like his advisor or something, like the sheriff.
00:45:55.039 --> 00:46:05.360
She was gonna kill him and Vash just looks at her and he doesn't tell her not to do it, or maybe he does, but I don't think he tells her not to do it, no.
00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:13.039
But he looks at her and then she goes she goes to pull the trigger and she does, but she shoots to maim him instead.
00:46:13.199 --> 00:46:16.960
And I think she did that because Vash had that impact on her.
00:46:17.119 --> 00:46:18.639
But that was her own choice.
00:46:18.800 --> 00:46:42.400
And there's another episode where this father, and I mean I do not do not blame him at all, but he goes to extreme lengths by like working with I think working with a gang or with bandits to Oh I remember this episode on the sand steamer to like kill the guy so that he could get close enough to the guy who killed his daughter and so that he can make him pay with his life.
00:46:42.639 --> 00:46:46.880
But when Vash sees what this guy's gonna do, he begs the guy not to do it.
00:46:47.119 --> 00:46:56.480
But then he listens to why this guy wants to kill him, and of course, like that's that's a horrible story, like it makes perfect sense why he wants to kill him.
00:46:56.639 --> 00:46:59.599
So Vash doesn't go over there and force the gun out of his hand.
00:46:59.760 --> 00:47:05.280
Vash prostrates himself on his hands and knees saying, like, I'm begging you don't do this.
00:47:05.519 --> 00:47:13.840
And the father who ha who is like so rightfully angry, all of a sudden feels like this isn't what his daughter would want.
00:47:13.920 --> 00:47:16.320
And he's he's like, Why why can't I do it?
00:47:16.480 --> 00:47:17.440
Why can't I do it?
00:47:17.840 --> 00:47:30.159
Is this the episode where where uh they're in that giant that sand steamer and then like Vash is singing like that song Total Slaughter Uh I Won't Leave a Single Man
Alive.
00:47:30.719 --> 00:47:38.079
Genu side bloody daddy died, an ocean of blood.
00:47:38.320 --> 00:47:40.159
It's it's such a ridiculous song.
00:47:40.400 --> 00:47:44.239
Now keep even though Vash is the one singing it, he would never commit genocide.
00:47:44.400 --> 00:47:57.599
But he does play up the I the image that he has because everyone thinks he's this crazy murderer, and sometimes he uses it to his advantage and pretends like he's about to shoot up the town just to clear the town for their own safety.
00:47:57.920 --> 00:48:04.239
So sometimes to hype things up, he will intimidate people just because he knows that they're already scared of people.
00:48:04.320 --> 00:48:04.639
Uh-huh.
00:48:04.960 --> 00:48:07.360
But it's never actually to kill anyone.
00:48:07.519 --> 00:48:07.840
Yeah.
00:48:08.320 --> 00:48:09.599
My memory serves me right.
00:48:09.679 --> 00:48:10.639
I knew it was on that episode.
00:48:10.960 --> 00:48:12.000
I love that episode.
00:48:12.079 --> 00:48:13.119
It's so funny.
00:48:13.440 --> 00:48:17.199
And I love just being in the dark and singing that song and freaking everyone out.
00:48:17.440 --> 00:48:20.719
Yeah, one of the guards on the episode, he's like, what is that song?
00:48:21.280 --> 00:48:21.920
Awful lyrics.
00:48:22.079 --> 00:48:22.960
Yeah, it's off a lyrics.
00:48:23.760 --> 00:48:27.920
Yeah, it's off like I love the dialogue in the old trigon.
00:48:28.480 --> 00:48:30.159
And another point.
00:48:30.400 --> 00:48:32.079
The the banter in the background.
00:48:32.639 --> 00:48:33.199
It's so funny.
00:48:33.440 --> 00:48:38.480
There are background lines that you wouldn't even notice if you weren't paying attention that are super funny.
00:48:38.559 --> 00:48:41.119
Like, whose idea was it to plant the grenade?
00:48:42.239 --> 00:48:52.559
They can't turn him in for the reward if he's a pile of pulp, you dumb it! And that was in the background, and someone like like brought the audio louder on like this edit I saw on YouTube.
00:48:53.039 --> 00:48:57.440
And I just to emphasize it, but I think I did remember that when I actually saw it.
00:48:57.679 --> 00:49:00.079
But I love all those.
00:49:00.239 --> 00:49:02.480
There are so many good lines in Trigun.
00:49:02.639 --> 00:49:10.079
If you go to this video on YouTube that's called 18 Minutes of Trigon being a quote unquote quality anime.
00:49:10.400 --> 00:49:36.320
Now it does make fun of some of the maybe some of the animation errors in it, or some of the like awkward moments in the series, and it also shows some of the really funny dialogue, like almost all of it, in that video, and you'll see why Trigon is so endearing to us, because it's so memorable and so easy to quote, and so like you could say a line from Trigon that you probably wouldn't find anywhere else, like, Oh, I'm so glad you asked.
00:49:36.480 --> 00:49:39.280
It's a long story, although it's kind of a short one.
00:49:40.480 --> 00:49:41.280
So good.
00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:43.679
Who says that again at Vulcan?
00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:44.400
I knew it.
00:49:44.480 --> 00:49:45.760
I knew it was Vulcan.
00:49:46.400 --> 00:49:49.599
Doesn't he say that on the that like he's working in a restaurant?
00:49:50.400 --> 00:49:53.519
He was working in a restaurant on that part, actually.
00:49:54.079 --> 00:50:02.880
But yeah, the part where Vash recites his whole name, and I am not going to remember it, but like V-A-S-H, I guess, stands for something.
00:50:03.679 --> 00:50:10.960
You can look up Vash's full name and you'll find Johnny Youngbosh's voice actor just saying the whole thing.
00:50:11.280 --> 00:50:15.440
It's it's pretty funny, and there's yeah, there's nothing quite like it.
00:50:15.599 --> 00:50:23.199
But another thing I wanted to say about Vash is that, yeah, I think we talked about how Vash basically has no thought for himself.
00:50:23.440 --> 00:50:26.480
In Stampede, he screams, I don't care what happens to me.
00:50:26.639 --> 00:50:32.159
Like they'll if people hurt me, if they fight me, and I'll I'll just keep running, but I'll always come back.
00:50:32.320 --> 00:50:34.000
I'll always come back to them.
00:50:34.320 --> 00:50:46.880
And in the old one, with that little girl Lena, or that I don't know, teenage girl, who was disguised as a boy kind of, uh, to protect herself, there were some guys who were like trying to assault her.
00:50:47.039 --> 00:50:56.320
And Vash comes out and he pleads with them to leave her alone, and they're like, Here, how about we'll leave her alone if you strip naked and act like a dog?
00:50:56.559 --> 00:51:02.079
And they say that because they're like no one in their right mind would do that, and he does without a second thought.
00:51:02.320 --> 00:51:06.800
And everyone is like, Don't do this, like don't do this to yourself.
00:51:07.360 --> 00:51:16.400
But and it doesn't work because they just shoot him anyway, and then Vash has to get medical attention, although thankfully bullets don't usually kill him.
00:51:16.559 --> 00:51:19.920
Yeah, throughout the series, um bullets don't usually kill him.
00:51:20.239 --> 00:51:21.760
Okay, I guess that line didn't make sense.
00:51:21.920 --> 00:51:23.119
I I screwed up there.
00:51:23.679 --> 00:51:41.679
But would you say if you were getting tortured, like actually, would you think it's an appropriate time to start talking about how people can change and how people can change for the better and how good people can actually be.
00:51:42.159 --> 00:51:45.440
That's not really a a moment where you would be thinking about that.
00:51:45.840 --> 00:51:48.800
And yet that's what Vash does, and this is actually in the new one.
00:51:48.960 --> 00:51:56.559
Knives is actually has Legato constricting no contorting Vash's body in horrible ways and like breaking all his bones.
00:51:56.719 --> 00:52:02.159
And while he's doing that, Vash starts talking like, you know, people will surprise you.
00:52:02.400 --> 00:52:03.920
And they can grow.
00:52:04.239 --> 00:52:13.920
And Knives is like, you know, all this is irrelevant because of how long that would take, even if that was true, and meanwhile we're all being infused here, and la da la da da.
00:52:14.320 --> 00:52:21.679
And Vash is saying No, okay, so the cycle of cycle of violence can only be named by those who have felt it.
00:52:21.920 --> 00:52:23.039
Who have felt the pain.
00:52:23.199 --> 00:52:24.400
So that's you and me.
00:52:24.559 --> 00:52:27.519
He says, but do we continue the cycle or do we change?
00:52:27.840 --> 00:52:33.760
Because if you continue the cycle, you're just letting Tesla's death be another horrible act in that cycle.
00:52:34.000 --> 00:52:36.719
Or do you want to use that as a catalyst for change?
00:52:36.960 --> 00:52:42.000
And of course Nives is like, you're still as stupid as ever, screw you, and turns away.
00:52:42.239 --> 00:52:54.320
But watching Vashlik like being contorted and twisted and and breaking, and then with the most serious and genuine expression on his face, saying, like, people will surprise you.
00:52:55.119 --> 00:52:57.440
It's really It's powerful stuff.
00:52:57.760 --> 00:53:03.199
Rare to see something like that, and it's it's pretty gut-wrenching and beautiful.
00:53:03.920 --> 00:53:08.239
So as for why, and yes, I agree with you, the old one is better.
00:53:08.480 --> 00:53:09.920
As for why I think it's better.
00:53:10.079 --> 00:53:13.360
I think it's a lot of things, including tone, the tone difference.
00:53:13.440 --> 00:53:16.320
Like, I don't think it being super edgy.
00:53:17.039 --> 00:53:17.920
The vibe is different.
00:53:18.559 --> 00:53:22.000
Necessar needs to be the case.
00:53:22.239 --> 00:53:34.480
Like, I don't think it's bad, but I like Trigun when it's like kind of more uh lighthearted and then the dark stuff happens and it's more shocking instead of just dark stuff happening all the time.
00:53:34.880 --> 00:53:41.760
Like, I don't know if we need that, because then it's not really building up to it, it's just always there, and then it's kind of depressing.
00:53:42.239 --> 00:53:45.199
And it's less shocking, the shock kind of wears off.
00:53:45.599 --> 00:53:54.320
I know my husband actually said he thought Dragon Stampede was too sad and he wouldn't watch it again, but he thought the old Trigun was really good and he would watch that again.
00:53:54.480 --> 00:53:58.079
So, and he he actually said that Stamp he said the Stampede was good.
00:53:58.159 --> 00:54:00.480
It was just too too heartbreaking.
00:54:00.960 --> 00:54:09.519
Like watching, you know, Vash like like scream in that memory of him and Ram and stuff, but he he was like, Oh, I can't this is Heck no.
00:54:09.679 --> 00:54:13.760
Yeah, this is a bit too much, like this is everything just feels hopeless.
00:54:14.000 --> 00:54:23.199
Yeah, the tone, the characters, again, you can't really have Trigon without Marilyn Milley,
I think, or it's not the same, not even close.
00:54:23.760 --> 00:54:29.119
And then just everyone is more funny, the characters are more enduring in the old one.
00:54:29.280 --> 00:54:38.639
And which is why I think I'll take that DVD set and re-watch it until I'm a hundred, because it is super, super good.
00:54:38.880 --> 00:54:41.760
I think Stamp Feed has some good things going for it.
00:54:41.920 --> 00:54:46.480
Uh it has some really good scenes like the one I mentioned, and Vash is still Vash.
00:54:46.639 --> 00:54:51.199
I think the biggest thing it has going for it is the action scenes are phenomenal in the new one.
00:54:51.920 --> 00:54:52.320
Stunning.
00:54:52.480 --> 00:55:03.679
I don't want to say they put the old one to shame because the old one is still good, but it's it doesn't have the technology to really compete with the depth and the really cool shots uh that that are in the new one.
00:55:03.920 --> 00:55:07.519
And also Knives is much more fleshed out in the new one.
00:55:07.679 --> 00:55:11.599
I used to like him in the old one, but he's barely in it in comparison to the new one.
00:55:12.159 --> 00:55:19.199
So I almost wish you could like combine some of those things, but I still say the old one is better at the end of the day.
00:55:20.960 --> 00:55:28.079
Yeah, and that seems like that's usually the pattern we're going on this show, is like the book is better or the original is better, but who knows, maybe we'll find something.
00:55:28.320 --> 00:55:36.159
Oh, we'll find one in the future that's we'll find something where the the newer one is better in the future because I believe in inequality now.
00:55:38.639 --> 00:55:39.679
Sounded so cringe.
00:55:41.519 --> 00:55:47.119
Anyways, I was gonna attempt to do an outro this time um for the TailTrail Podcast.
00:55:47.280 --> 00:55:49.199
We actually have a YouTube channel.
00:55:49.360 --> 00:55:54.239
It's I think it's the TailTrail underscore podcast.
00:55:54.559 --> 00:55:58.559
Yeah, it's at uh tailtrail underscore podcast.
00:55:58.960 --> 00:56:01.760
No, the at tailtrail underscore podcast.
00:56:02.000 --> 00:56:14.880
And we also have a Discord server which is slowly growing, and it's a place where you can submit ideas or you can talk about the episode, or you can talk about anything really.
00:56:15.039 --> 00:56:18.639
Uh, mostly people who are movie nerds and stuff like that on there.
00:56:18.800 --> 00:56:24.400
It's called the TailTrail server, and uh I should be able to give you uh an invite.
00:56:24.480 --> 00:56:26.880
Uh the link is in the YouTube description.
00:56:27.679 --> 00:56:48.480
And you can also follow me at charose49, that's s-h-a-r-o-se 49 on Instagram because that is my Instagram account, which I use to promote all my work, and since I don't post enough, I th thought it would be better to just post the Tailtrail podcast stuff onto that page to give me an excuse to post more.
00:56:48.800 --> 00:56:56.559
Because if I just had a page only for promoting the Tailtrail podcast, I probably would hardly ever upload anything to it.
00:56:56.719 --> 00:57:00.880
So yeah, so those are the places you can go to find us elsewhere.
00:57:01.039 --> 00:57:09.039
Uh but in the meantime, yeah, you can follow us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts, except for iHeartRadio.
00:57:09.119 --> 00:57:12.719
I didn't like that one, but you have to make an account.
00:57:13.679 --> 00:57:15.760
And there's ads that I didn't like.
00:57:16.079 --> 00:57:19.280
Anyways, that about does it for this episode.
00:57:19.440 --> 00:57:21.519
We finally wrapped up the Try Gun discussion.
00:57:21.599 --> 00:57:22.719
It only took forever.
00:57:23.840 --> 00:57:24.880
Let's go.
00:57:26.000 --> 00:57:31.599
But until next time, you want to say it, Lyndon, this world is made?
00:57:31.760 --> 00:57:32.800
Repeat after me.
00:57:33.280 --> 00:57:34.800
This world is made of I'll say.
00:57:35.199 --> 00:57:38.480
This world is made of love and peace.
00:57:38.960 --> 00:57:39.599
Cheers.