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When you're an actor and you leave on a tour, you get another actor to stay in your space who might be in town for another project. So subletting has always been a thing that I had done in New York. So now Airbnb was just making it. I don't have to go into like, quote unquote, gypsy housing Facebook groups anymore. The world was my oyster.
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understanding how to get the most out of each person on your team, being able to adjust your communication style to the particular person to get the most out of them is a huge part of leadership. What's going on, STR Nation? Welcome back to another episode of the Short-Term Rental Secrets Podcast. I am your host, Mike Sjogren. Here as always with my main man and brother from another mother, Mr. Emmanuel Pani. What's going on? My brother, so good to see you. I am so excited for the show today.
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These two ladies are people that like I have been personally following for a long time. I find them hilarious in the stuff that they do and just like good hearted people. So it's always a pleasure when you like we have people on the show and they exceed expectations.
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Yes. It was one of those moments where it's like, I feel like we know each other already, but this was the first time we actually connected because I think we all follow each other's stuff. But today we've got Sarah and Annette from Thanks for Visiting. If you guys haven't checked out their stuff, they are...
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An amazing duo that puts out a ton of fun content, and they're just helping out a lot of people and doing a lot of cool things. Some of my big takeaways from the show today were first on – was it Sarah that dropped this or was it Annette that talked about how – it was such a good nugget on –
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how to hire amazing people and like a hack to use to hire like a really good ops manager assistant, like overall like key player in the business and where they look for those people. I thought that was such a gem.
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Yeah. Yeah, it was kind of a combination of the two. And then they also talked about personality tests and how knowing their own personality tests helped them find this key person. So, again, we've talked about that in the past as well. The other thing that I love that they talked about, which is such an interesting concept, is the fact that when we look at our industry...
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From the macro perspective, we're all partners. And what I mean by that is that we are all invested in creating this experience in short-term rentals. And we're all responsible to give the best quality product because overall it makes the industry look better and helps. We help each other out.
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And so a lot of the time people are like, oh, I don't have a partner. I think Sarah said this. She's like, you have partners everywhere. Like literally every other host is a partner. And I think when you start thinking like that, it'll help you elevate. Well, if you really think about it, right? If somebody goes and stays at a property from Airbnb as an example, and they have a bad experience, right?
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They may never want to book a property again off of Airbnb or Vrbo or any platform because they're just like, oh man, this really ruined the vacation. I'd rather just make the safe play and stay at a hotel. So again, as we put out more content and try and help people host better,
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It helps all of us because the biggest risk to the industry, which we've talked about, is the lack of consistency property to property and experience by experience.
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So yes, we are all in this together, as they said. And then the thing that we touched on at the end, I would highly encourage you to make sure you watch this one all the way to the end, because we really dove into this, was putting yourself out there on social media or a blog or whatever, and getting over that fear. You know, you and I were joking about how at the beginning, we were both...
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Super nervous and horrible, but we just kept showing up and kept doing it. And they both said the same thing. Maybe not so much Sarah. I mean, she was a stage performer on Broadway, which I had no idea. But Annette definitely felt that way. And all of the amazing opportunities that have come to them because they were willing to get uncomfortable and put themselves out there. Yeah. And one of the tips there that they shared, which I loved, was to share the ugly middle.
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And the thing is, again, show the messy middle. It doesn't have to be perfect. And actually, they brought up the point that people want to see you. And in terms of even hosting properties, if you have specific pages for your properties...
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The fact that you give it your character, your own flair, it may entice a guest because that's not something that they get when they go to a big chain hotel. There is no history. There's no feelings. There's no anything in there. And so, again, like show the show the messy, show the good, share the lessons and just have fun.
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100%. Well, without further ado, let's dive in with Sarah and Annette from Thanks for Visiting. All right. Sarah and Annette are officially in the building. Well, virtually anyway. Welcome to the show, guys. Thanks for having us here. We're excited. Yeah, this is going to be fun. I feel like this is long overdue. I feel like I know you, but we don't really know each other yet. So I'm excited to get to know you even better today.
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Well, we like the duo on duo. It's very rare to have two and two. It's normally one host or co-host, so it's fun to have fellow
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co-hosts on. Indeed. Indeed. So for the listeners that don't know about you guys and thanks for visiting and everything, why don't you just give an overview of who you guys are, what your business looks like, and then we'll rewind time and go back to the beginning to figure out how you guys got here.
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Well, we have to do our really cheesy intro, so we apologize for that. But my name is Sarah Karakayan. I'm Annette Grant, and together we are Thanks for Visiting. And I met this lady when I moved from New York City to Columbus, Ohio. And I'll go back a little bit as well, but just where this Thanks for Visiting came from. I moved to Columbus, Ohio in 2012.
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18 to find an area where I can invest in real estate with less red tape because I started my real estate investing journey in New York City. And I went to a city council meeting because right when I moved here, they put regulations on the...
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a discussion for the city of Columbus. And I was like, I just moved here. Like the regulations were really strict. They essentially wanted to limit us to weekends only. And so I showed up to all three city council meetings, but at one of them, Annette sat right next to me
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struck up conversation. She was already starting a podcast about short-term rental hosting and asked me to be a guest, but the chemistry there for the discussion was so good that she invited me to do it with her. And that's where that started, really with the intention of just nerding out together on a podcast and seeing who else would want to listen. And we could never imagine that people other than our moms would care what we would have to say. And
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But that was like five, six years ago is now. So yeah, we have over 400 podcast episodes in now at this point in time, which is crazy, crazy to say. But I want to just pause really quick on that city council meeting for everyone listening. Showing up matters. So if there is anything...
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in your area, a city council meeting, any sort of public meeting, your presence matters at each and every one. And if you don't think regulations are coming to your area, be ready. They will be coming to your area. So make sure you know the people in your community. If you can't be at those meetings, who is going to be showing up at those meetings so you can keep up with what's going on? So us showing up mattered. Hundreds, if not thousands of hosts showed up to those meetings.
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And we won that battle. And so we did not have any, we had some licensing that took place, which we were more than happy about that. But those strong regulations, the host showed up, they spoke up and it mattered. And it kept all of our businesses alive. Amen to that. And I'll plug my buddy, Dave Krauss over at Rent Responsibly, who's helping fight the good fight with his amazing team over there. Absolutely. Second that.
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So how did all this start for you guys? Like, how did you get into the short-term rental space? Yeah, I'll kick off my story. I used to be a Broadway performer. So I lived in New York City. I did Broadway musicals. And that's all I wanted to do my entire life was do that. And so I've always kind of been in like the gig economy, essentially. So when a Broadway show is done, whether I was on a tour or a regional show, you essentially start over again.
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And there were opportunities for us to, quote unquote, grow wealth as a performer, but they weren't great. So my husband, when I met him on our first date, I actually, we both asked each other what our credit scores were. So like, if that gives you any sort of temperature of what kind of relationship we have. Who won? Who won the credit score battle? No, we're always neck and neck. Every time we get like any sort of financing done, we always see like who's winning at that point in time. But what a sexy conversation for a first date, you know?
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It really gets your engine going. You know, it's just like, hey, like just FICO, like just give it to me. You know, how do you check it? You know, just like hot. Is that not normal? It's totally not. No, yeah, it's you're great.
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I'm okay to be weird. That's cool. I say all that because he introduced me to Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and I couldn't get it out of my head. And so my husband, he's an architect, and I was a performer, and we decided to buy a rental in New York City. We did the whole 3% down. And at the time, this was 2010, Airbnb had just come to the New York City area, and
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And I convinced him somehow to give it a try because we bought this home that we lived in upstairs. It's not a duplex, but the basement area had its own entrance and we renovated it to have its own bathroom and living space. And then I did a little coffee station, a little fridge situation, because when you're an actor and you leave on a tour,
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you get another actor to stay in your space who might be in town for another project. So subletting has always been a thing that I had done in New York. So now Airbnb was just making it. I don't have to go into like, quote unquote, gypsy housing Facebook groups anymore. The world was my oyster. And so we put a door between that space and the rest of our home. And very quickly, we were, you know, our mortgage was being paid for and we were making money. So that was 2010. And we just didn't look back.
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Fast forward to 2015, we somehow found ourselves on eight episodes of an HGTV show. We flipped a vacation rental and that was just kind of like solidifying it. It's like, I think there's something about this vacation rental, short-term rental, furnished rental thing that
I'm supposed to be doing.
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I had been in hospitality all my life working in restaurants or hotels, again, between gigs, and just good at it. So we went all in, sold everything in New York, moved to Columbus, Ohio, essentially exchanged all of those assets into assets here in Columbus. And that's when I met Annette.
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and decided to, I had like a home improvement blog prior to meeting Annette. And she showed me the wonderful world of podcasting and really sharing what I knew and didn't know. Also not knowing things and making huge mistakes can also be helpful for people. And so that's what led us to Columbus and meeting Annette. Annette's story is very different than mine.
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Yeah, I was not singing and dancing, but I like to say I'm on my third career. All of my careers have been very successful. I helped build businesses. And my last one, I had helped build a e-commerce apparel brand. We've
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We have retail locations, but also e-commerce. And that business, it was just time for me to move on. I'd been there for almost a decade and I didn't know what was next, but I'd been going to an office for 20 plus years and had hundreds of employees and was like, wow.
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I couldn't ever do my work without going to an office. And I was like, I want to solve for this problem. I don't want to go to an office anymore. And so I took some time off. I had had a very nice severance package, being an employee and a equity stake in it. And so I had some time and breathing room. And the one thing I loved about e-commerce is I loved the availability of the entire world to be my customer.
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And I was like, what else is out there where the entire world can be my customer? I don't have to go to the office. And that is where the gig economy, I was thinking Uber, Airbnb, no one wants me driving them around. So that was out of the question. But Airbnb, and I'm not even going to say short-term rentals because I didn't even know what short-term rental meant. I didn't know what an STR was, but I knew what an Airbnb was. And I had a friend who is...
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owns thousands of properties here in Columbus, Ohio. And I partnered with him on properties. And because I was like, who comes to Columbus, Ohio? Well, guess what? A lot of people. And they were a huge success. And we are open to the world 24-7. That's what I love about the web. I love that about this economy that we're a part of. And I love the sharing part.
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I actually went to school for cultural anthropology, so I love people. I thought I would be friends with my guests. Very wrong there. I'm really now connected to all of the hosts in the world. But that's really how I got started was accidental of like what was going to be my next thing. The Airbnb or the gig economy was going to be
my, I'll do this while I figure out the next thing, not knowing it was the next thing. So that's why I always encourage everyone to.
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take that chance. That thing that you don't think might be the next thing could be the very next thing that's right for you. And so that was a great, that, that thing that I thought was just going to be like, you know, help me understand, you know, what my next step is, was, was awesome. And then I didn't have to go to the office. I mean, I'm guessing I'm on 20, you were on 24 seven, which is a little different than having to go to the office, but it really helped me find that next, that next step. So I haven't been to an office since, and that was 2016.
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I probably work more than ever, but don't have to go to the office. Well, it's a fun business. So, and I work for myself. I was building businesses for others and now I'm building businesses for myself, which feels way more rewarding. Absolutely. So what are your portfolios look like now? Do you, are you guys just on the ownership side or are you doing some management and co-hosting any arbitrage? Like what are the portfolios look like now?
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Yeah. So Annette and I both own property together. I own property with my husband and I'm a licensed property manager.
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here in Columbus and manage anywhere up from 50 properties, both in the Columbus area, Hocking Hills area. And we actually just purchased last year about 134 acres in the Hocking Hills area. And we're going to learn the world of glamping. And so that's our newest endeavor and project. So yeah, we're in it. Yeah, we're building septic right now for all those people that are interested in that.
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back to sexy conversations. It's just like from credit score to septics, you know, with Stacey St. John. Yes. Yep. Are you familiar with her project over there? I'm not as familiar with her project in Hocking Hills, but I know she's doing one. It's gonna be pretty amazing. So you guys should connect on that. I think it'd be fun to collab here and collab a little bit. I'm Miss Stacey. We should have her back on to talk about it. So
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What, so that's the next big thing. And so who does what? So do you guys have clearly defined roles? Like what's the day-to-day like? Yeah, so obviously we also run Thanks for Visiting, which is another full-time endeavor for us. Annette is usually on the financials and I am usually in operations.
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And that definitely helps us get things done. And so we're, we have, we know who's in charge of what. So anything that's like guest facing or team facing is my jam. And then anything that's behind the scenes, running the behind the scenes business, texting our attorney, she just got off the phone with our bookkeeper. That's a Nets role. Got it. I think that's super, I'm glad he
asked that because
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You know, people ask this all the time, especially when they're newer, you know, should I get a business partner? You know, I'd love to start this business with my friend. And I'm like, cool. Do you have complementary skill sets or do you just want an accountability buddy to just, you know, get in the ditch with you? Right. So the fact that you guys have those complementary skill sets, and I don't know if it was super clear at the beginning, but the fact that you've got that seems pretty dialed in now. It just...
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When you have that clarity, it just allows you to go so much faster with so much less pain, I'll say, and less awkward conversations of like, okay, well, she's getting the final say on this. She's getting the final say on this. And these are our lanes.
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We can also share with everyone something that was pivotal for us very early on is we did the personality test predictive index. And we did that years ago. And it's funny. We just went back to it last week at VRMA, at the Vacation Rental Management Association event. We were talking about it there. But that was really important for Sarah and I to learn how.
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what our strengths were, how we work, what would be the best way for us to work. And looking back, that was one of the best investments that we made. And we didn't even think really that deeply about it when we did that, but it has helped us tremendously. Yeah.
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through so many different phases of our business. So I can offer that to the listeners. Like you said, Mike, if someone is wanting to get a partner, like do that work ahead of time. One thing that Sarah and I always like to share, do not be scared.
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of what the exit is. In your operating agreement, talk about the end. And if you can't talk about the end at the very beginning when everything's clean and there's no money invested, you're sure as heck not going to be able to talk about it when there's a lot of blood, sweat, tears, and money involved. So we recommend if you can't talk about that exit at the very beginning, then that's kind of a red flag that that's probably not the partner for you. And if they're
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every real estate deal, every business, uh, they, those are the relationships you're in and they're on paper ahead of time and it makes things so much easier. And so I just, I offer that to everyone, like the businesses that I've left, it's made that so much easier because we had those, um, in place ahead of time and everybody knows what's going to happen then. Such a great point. PI is phenomenal. Um, yeah.
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I've had the whole team go through that. I'd have them go through the Enneagram. I've had them do the, another one that I like five voices. And I, I share them all with the whole team because when you understand what everybody's strengths and weaknesses are and also how to communicate to that person effectively, I think as you grow your business and evolve into a leadership role, um,
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understanding how to get the most out of each person on your team. Like Danny is an example, who's in the background here, producing the podcast. I can be very blunt and direct with him because he knows I'm coming from a place of caring and just call him out. But if I go hard at somebody like Beth, who's one of my assistants, like that might not be received as well. So being able to adjust your communication style to the particular person to get the most out of them. Yeah.
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is a huge part of leadership, in my opinion. And those tests have helped me a ton understand how I come across to those different personality types. Yeah. PI is great because predictive index is great because it tells you and that knew she was a maverick. I knew I was a captain and then it'll also tell you how mavericks and captains or who whatever you are, whoever you are, how they work together, what to look out for. Like it literally told me like you can't put a net in a box. If you try to put it in a box and tell her what to do and when to do it,
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She's going to leave, right? She's going to not be okay with that. And so as a bossy person, I need to make sure that I check myself. Like what's more important. It's just like a marriage. You know what I mean? It's like, what's more important driving the business forward and moving towards those goals that we set at the beginning.
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or quote unquote being right or being myself. So I think taking that into consideration, checking yourself and knowing that before you get too deep into, we did this before we put any money into anything. We were just, yeah, getting to know each other and having discussions about starting businesses together. And so that's, yeah.
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And I also just want to offer to the listeners too, like, I can't, I think so many people stop themselves from success from being scared of partnering when I think it is the best way to, like you said, accelerate success. So, um,
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We're actually, you know, I'm business partners now with Sarah's husband. My sister is business partners with us on some properties. So if you can clearly define that, have a great attorney, an amazing attorney. I say press forward with your partnerships because, man, you're going to have more brains. You're going to have more dollars and you're going to have a larger network. So that's going to equal more opportunity.
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So well said. So well said. I love that. I would love to take us to... So a couple of years ago, you guys kind of decided to start doing this, right? I assume that you guys got to the point where you're looking around,
you're like, okay, we're doing a lot of things. There are certain things that is my unique area of genius. This is yours. We need to bring on somebody that's going to help us grow.
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And I think every person that gets to that point understands is like, okay, outside of us, even in a partnership, we need a third person. Do you guys remember for each one of the businesses, what the hire was, how did you find them and like how they helped kind of scale your business from that point on?
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Yeah. The great part, I want to continue on with predictive index a little bit. It also gave clarity to Sarah and I who our next hire should be, what our weaknesses combined were and led us.
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to this next hire. And so we use that not only to understand each other, but to understand what hire would help facilitate that fastest route of growth. So I'll let you explain our ace there that we hired next. Yeah, Annette and I needed someone in our business who isn't, who likes going into like the details and pulling out all the data. We know what to do with the data, but pulling it out, pouring ourselves over it, seeing patterns was something that
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would bore us very quickly. So we knew that we needed someone analytical. So in the PI world, they call it the analyst. And so when we were hiring for that position, we had everyone go through the PI testing and we would only...
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interview people who had the personality that we were looking for. And that really helps streamline and not waste your time when you start interviewing people. And I actually took the question a different way, which I think is also important is Annette and I, as we started our facilitating, you know, business deals together and doing these different ventures. I think, I don't know who the first one was, but one of us wanted to get a business coach or get some sort of, um,
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We've hired all sorts of different business coaches or invested in masterminds or things of that nature. And we are both relieved that both of us are very much in support of investing in ourselves. And so that's never been a question either for us. So whether it's investing in an employee, we don't really see employees as...
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their expenses. For us, their investments, especially if you hire the right one, they'll take you further than you could ever go without them. And hiring or finding the right sort of business coach or mentor who's been further than we have, and we've not been there yet, so they can help guide us. And so that's always been something that
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we've both been on board with because there are people who don't believe in it and who don't want to leverage that kind of support. And that's, that's a little tough. Cause I've always done that. And she's always done that. And so
it was, it, it was just, again, like people ask us all the time, like, do you guys ever fight? Do you ever? And we're like, no, no, we don't.
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Get it done. We're too busy to fight. You've got to get stuff done. Yeah. But yeah, so the mentors and then our colleague, I'll just tell you her name, Colleen, she actually works double duty in our business. And one thing that's amazing is she was actually a GM of a hotel.
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for over a decade. And so her revenue management skills are unparalleled. Like we, I mean, we can't even explain to you like that background of doing revenue management at multiple hotels for some of the biggest chains is just like, you know,
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I don't even know where we would find someone else like that, but then her hospitality, guest facing as being a GM, and then hiring team members. So she actually does revenue management. She does guest communication. She does, one of the big roles we'll get to next is our inspectors on our,
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our team who inspect every property before every check-in. Yes, I'll say it again. They inspect every property before every check-in because that is exactly what hotels do. Every room gets an inspection before a guest checks in. But Colleen can not only crush it on that side of the business, she can crush it on helping us with Thanks for Visiting because she has that background too in hotels and short-term rentals and just operations overall.
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I love that. What a great hack. Yeah. Everybody just go hire a hotel GM. And this is actually for everyone. Like the folks that were in hospitality, especially during COVID –
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They are ready for a change. Kind of like you guys heard it in my voice of like, I had to go to that office for 20 years. Like a lot of people in hospitality have been going to the hotels. They have been going to the restaurants for years. And that's the only thing that they know. And they are looking for work from home, maybe a little bit more or work remote or be in and out of properties, not tied together.
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to those specific locations. So I think there is a hotbed of talent. We actually know a couple of friends who have also hired the same old hotel GMs for their management companies also. So we can share that. We've heard this and I know that there's a hotbed of talent out there that others could hire too. I love that you said that. And I'm going to
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What I'm curious about on this specific topic is Mike and I talk about all the time hiring A players.
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There is an assumption that a hate player is going to want a lot of money. And in my experience, the hate player, yes, wants to be paid well and fairly. But then there's also a whole other area of things that they may care about. So in hiring her, do you guys remember how much of an emphasis was salary alone versus like, OK, like she cared a lot about salary?
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I don't necessarily need you to check in or clock in a certain time. What was some of the other benefits that you guys were able to give her that got you this A player? Sure. Because that was, we knew like we can't compete with Hilton. You know, that's not, we knew that. We didn't even try. Yeah. We knew that right out of the gate, but there are some intangibles. Number one is to be, she's very interested in real estate, wants to have her own portfolio. Yeah.
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So being able to see behind the scenes there and continue that education, she had that hotel education. I can share with you, she has the opportunity to put her children on the bus and get them off of the bus, which to her is invaluable. And she never, ever, ever would have had that opportunity if she would have stayed at the hotel.
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at the hotel. So there are, there are some intangibles again. Um, I'm just going to share. She was really excited to work for female founders. And so that was something that she hadn't had an opportunity to do too. So there were, like you said, it's like, we kind of had a stack these things that don't fit on a spreadsheet and might not ever like have a financial, um,
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dollar amount associated with them, but there is value. Okay. And so that's, and Sarah and I talk about that on real estate deals too. Like you have to know your why, like a property might not pencil out the way you really, really want it to, but like, is it?
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a family property? Is it a legacy property that you just want to keep in the family and short term renting helps you do that? Is it your place that you want to retire? And this is going to get you there faster. It might not be the biggest cash flow, but that's where like sometimes, yes, absolutely do the spreadsheet. But what are those other things that you have to put your own value on? You have to quiet the noise. And so that was what we did with her is provided other value for
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for her. And the same for when we choose properties too. I love that. I want to reiterate that. The money side is one piece of it. And Ian, I talk a lot about this in the different masterminds, especially at our highest level one, where these, these folks are crushing it. They're doing hotels. They're doing a lot of big things. And our focus is really around lifestyle design, right? Like I have an eight year old son. I have an eight month old daughter.
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I spent two hours at a school this morning for their Halloween parade to me that I could do way more transactions right now. I could be making way more money right now, but that is way more important to me at this point in my life. And when you realize that, and most people do realize that the
majority of people on my team took pay cuts to come work for us because we had other benefits and the,
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They just knew that if they hung around us more often, other areas of their life would get better. We're big into personal development like you guys are talking about. Big into coaching. I bring in my coaches to work with some of these folks. I give them access to certain people. I help them if they want to get into the real estate space. I give them the flexibility to leave earlier if their kids are sick or they want to go. There's so much more than just...
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the pay side of it to create that fulfillment, right? It's not so black and white anymore of like, you go to work for 40 years to live the rest of your life one day. It's like, no, we can have both now for intentional with it. And that's to me, one of the beauties of this industry and why I got into it to begin with was the time freedom. So yeah,
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I think one of the parallels too is again about properties is like Sarah and I know we could go buy different properties in different locations and make, you know, make more money or a higher cashflow. But like lifestyle wise, like those aren't the properties that we want to host. You know, those aren't like, I'm not getting a good night's rest if I know.
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Um, maybe the place isn't the safest or in the best area. My guests might be compromised or maybe, uh, you know, we want our properties to be in our backyard. We don't want a remote host. So it's more of like lifestyle for us, even with our, with our property and our portfolio too. And I feel like so many people try to choose things that are again, just highest salary or highest cashflow. And it's like really where you have to sit down with yourself.
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And put that why down and understand what do you really want your lifestyle to be like and longevity wise too because we could all do a lot of things and make a lot more money quickly but you're going to burn out and it's not going to be worth it. And this is why also it's important that you yourself know that you are your own brand.
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I mean, the fact that, I mean, Colleen, when we reached out to her, it was targeted. She had, she had communicated with us from watching us on, on Instagram, you know? And so anytime you pop in anywhere that is visible and just making sure that you are who you are at your truest self, you're trying not to be trendy. You're going to attract a players as well. And they want to be a part of what you're building and,
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Especially, like you said, Mike, when you give them opportunities to be a part of all the things that make you who you are, because they're attracted to you and the greatness that you're trying to give back in the world and share. And that's also how we were able to attract her and have
her now for going on almost two years with things for visiting and even longer with our property management company.
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I just keep saying, you know, keep doing great things, share with people what you're doing and why you're doing it. And when you do need help or you're ready to hire that first person, whether it's a vendor or an employee, the hope is that you're going to attract really awesome people. And you'll know because they want to stay with you and they're willing to leave a higher paying job to be a part of what you're building and that special thing that you're doing. In that vein...
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I remember, and Ian, I joke about this. Like at the beginning when we started this podcast four or five years ago at this point and getting on social media, it was so uncomfortable at the beginning. Right. I was a CPA for 10 years. I was the number cruncher behind the screen, afraid to talk to anybody. Like that was just who I was. And there's a lot of folks out there that.
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They're almost afraid to talk about their business. They're afraid to put themselves out there. So I'd love to hear from you, you know, what that was like at the beginning and what building, you know, thanks for visiting. It's obvious that you guys love what you do because it comes through. You can't fake that authenticity and you can just feel that energy and all your content and all the stuff that you guys are doing, which is awesome.
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So for the folks that are considering or they feel like they should put themselves out there more and really focus on building their brand and putting themselves out there, what advice would you give to them? Gosh, it's like the world needs you. You know, like the way we do things is very different than the way some of our colleagues do things or our.
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And so that's special. And I think the more that we remain authentic, sharing the good and the challenging, it's also been a great learning opportunity for ourselves to be humble, to remain humble, and to know that we don't have all of the answers. And actually, the things that we're still questioning, we bring back to our audience or our mentors or our friends and family, and they help us in return and never shutting off.
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The ability to ask for help, I think, is also a great quality and character to have. Especially when you put yourself out there, you're going to feel like you're supposed to have all the answers. And you're supposed to only do things the quote unquote right way. And I think Annette and I swore that off in the very beginning.
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And that was the great thing about building a friendship with her and then a business is that with each other, we were able to remain honest and humble and question things. And we still do. It might be something that we feel like we're supposed
to know, but we'll still ask those questions and just know that there's just no way we can know it all and have all the right answers. And I think we're appreciated for that more than we're not trusted for that. And so if anyone's out there who's wanting to start
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a meetup or speak somewhere or share what you know. It's like, I know that when I go somewhere and I can hear a different perspective from someone who does the same thing that I'm doing, just a different way, it enhances my life. And so I'm grateful that they put themselves out there. And there's so many ways to do that. And you'll never know unless you try.
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And I have a very different perspective because Sarah was on stage for a living. I literally, I still get nervous every day. I still don't like to see myself or hear myself. And I also want to share with everybody, like I didn't start any like face forward voice sessions.
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camera recording until I was 42 years old. You know, like that was, that's crazy to me that like, I tell people, I'm like, I'm on YouTube and like, I can't like, you know, we started this five years ago, but like that to me, you're never too old too. Cause if someone would have told me that you'll start recording or putting yourself out there at that age, I would have like laughed at them. Like that'll be too old. And I, now I feel like, Oh my gosh, I'm just getting started. So I also want to encourage people like, you know,
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It's never too late. You're not too old to be like showing your face on camera or whether it be Facebook or Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, like just put yourself out there. And it does for me, it does not get easier, but it has afforded me.
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to meet so many amazing people. Like I put myself out there more because I know the opportunity that's going to bring me, even though it's uncomfortable. And I still, it's still a challenge. It might not get easier, but I know what I want and I know what my goals are and I know it's going to help me get there faster. Yeah. Ian, I did a public speaking course. You remember this? Ian, Mark Yegi probably. Yeah.
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seven, eight years ago. And I will never forget him, the advice that he gave us. He said, the butterflies never go away. You just learn how to get them to fly in uniform. And I was like, man, it was such great advice. It was like a Yoda quote. It took me 50 minutes to figure out what he was trying to say, but it's so true. Every time, you know, before I get on stage or whatever, I'm always nervous, but it just means that I care. And
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The thing that has helped me the most get over that is I remember anytime I'm feeling nervous, I'm being selfish because I'm all thinking about how am I going to look. And the way to snap out of that is think of, okay, if I can just help one person in this room, this was totally worth it. And it immediately snaps me out of that. Yeah.
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Just remember that if you're starting to produce content and you're nervous, it's totally normal. But remember, you never know who you're going to help by just being open and vulnerable. And even on your property social media, we have so many people in our membership and they're like, what do I put on social? Tell the story of your property. Show you building the brand new bed for your guests that you can't wait to host. Your guests...
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They want to see you. I think they want to see your face. They don't get that when they go to larger brands. So show them who's going to be hosting them. Show your sweat equity. Show the before and after. I think people are really scared to show the messy middle. And the messy middle is what people are drawn to. So if you have a social for your property...
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that can be invaluable also. So your guests want to see you. They need to see you and that you can make more money by letting your guests know that you're the one behind the property. So good. Show the messy middle. It's a beautiful thing. No, I love, and a lot of the stuff that we said is stuff that we've been kind of like saying lately. It sounds like we're kind of on this train of like social. And I think,
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for me a big thing has always been like the more i lean into a labor of love the easier it is for me to share it and the thing that i love i love hospitality so for me it's a labor of love and like i've always loved and i love people so for me serving is just a labor of love and so the moment i feel myself
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feeling jaded and I go look at it, it's because I'm not doing the things that I love to do. And so one of the blessings of life is the fact that there are so many people that are going to love doing the things you don't love to do, right? Like find a Colleen, like find your Colleen in your life that does all the things. And she geeks out on it. And I think the biggest thing that I've learned in terms of leadership in this last year is the more I can empower others to pursue a labor of love, the better my ecosystem is going to be and the more fun it's going to be.
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So on that topic, I would love to ask you guys, what are some things that you guys are excited about right now that you're creating maybe content-wise? I know you're working on your YouTube podcast. Kind of walk us through that. And what's exciting things that you're working on? We just did a 2025 planning situation the past five days.
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And I can tell you the thing, what excites Annette and lights her up is different than me, which is a good thing, especially when you're in business together. You like credit scores, we know. Correct. Correct. For me, I'm most excited
about doing less, but better. I have always been the kind of human being that I love working. I prefer when people are like, oh, I can't wait to take a vacation or to go home and watch TV. I've never been that human. So I've never experienced white space.
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And I hear it's great. So I'm going to try it out next year. And so when you do less, I hear when you have more time to create and put into your creativity, whatever that is for you, you know, it doesn't have to be like a pottery class or anything like that, but just giving myself more space to think and to be quiet and still, I've never done it. And I'm excited to lean into being uncomfortable in that world with our content, you know, our YouTube, with everything that I do is just going to be less but better.
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You ready? I like it. For me, the first thing that came to mind, we just had a call with our VIP members. And really, you know, a lot of our messaging is around hospitality. We draw in a lot of women that, you know, are in our paid membership. And the one thing I'm so excited about is really helping them harness the power of knowing their numbers and let them know how empowering.
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knowing your numbers are. And it's not just on your property, it's personally. And so I want to continue that road with all of the ladies, like people were, you know, they were like, wait, you can, and dynamic pricing, you can take out the cap. Like there's no limit to what you can charge for a night. And people were sharing that they were getting rates that they never imagined. And it was just because they had set this fictitious ceiling. And so really just anybody in the short-term rental space and just in general, business owners of, you know,
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Knowing that when you know your numbers, that is the most powerful, even if they're negative, it's okay. There's power in understanding them. And so making sure people aren't hiding from them, but they're leaning into them. So that's kind of my goal for next year is helping everyone know their numbers.
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I love that. My old identity as a CPA, I just assume everybody understands this stuff. And even at our highest level group that we were talking about before, one of the changes that Ian and I have been working on the last three weeks was we put together what we called our legacy scorecard. And one of the things on there was showing them how to create a net worth statement, a personal financial statement.
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that they can track and update quarterly. And we can review it with them and help them dissect this. And then a whole personal P&L. So it's like, okay, here's the business. How much is actually going in your bank account? How much are you actually saving? How much are you actually reinvesting? And it was great because honestly, I feel like I...
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Even for me, I always find things when I do that, that I'm like, oh man, really? Like I thought, you know, certain things I'm like, oh wow, I definitely spent more than I thought last quarter or whatever. Right. It's just, it's the knowledge is power and.
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I can find myself, you know, I love to work. Like I'm not wired to sit on a beach or golf every single day. Like I just, I can't, but I will tell you, I did take three weeks off over the summer. My team basically kicked me out and said, I was going to Florida. They're like, you're not allowed to do anything. I did one webinar. That was it.
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The ideas that came out from that, I literally just had an iPhone note just with ideas. Like I would go for a walk and it would just, cause you get, you give your brain a chance to just turn off. So you're going to love it. It will be weird, but you're going to love it.
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But just giving yourself that space and that clarity. Because at the end of the day, if you're only focused on growing the business and you're forgetting why you're building it and what it's, is it actually serving you? You know, are you actually profitable or are you just making money and it's going out and you're not?
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capitalizing on it. You're not actually creating those experiences like you could or should if you just gave it some energy and a little bit of focus, even on a monthly basis to just make sure you understand your numbers. There's so much power and clarity in that. Absolutely. Can't agree more. So I know we're running much longer than we normally do. I feel like we could chat it up. Oh my God, this was so enjoyable. I don't want to elaborate because I'm like, well, I don't want to keep everyone, but it's like
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Yeah. And I don't know what it, it's like, where do we, where do people get when they feel like not looking at their numbers or what they set out to do is no longer serving them? Like it's such a scary place to be. And I think they need people like we just talked about, you know, showing up on social media and, you know, you don't have to put your face out there, you know, just because we choose that way. You could also write, you can also contribute to the, you know,
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someone else's content, you know, ghostwriters, things of that nature. But giving, so I think it's our responsibility to remind people that there are definitely times where we let things go for too long and we have to do some catch up. Or like you said, it's like facts over feelings. Like if you feel like you spent this amount or you feel like it's making money and actually getting those facts dialed in, like it can be a rough road to get there, but it has never not been worth it.
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And honestly, as long as you have a really great CPA, financial advisor, whoever
works with you, a Colleen, and they're the right team member for you, they're not going to give you shame or not going to make you feel shame. They're going to help you get to the other side of it. And those are the kind of partners that you want to have. And if you don't have that, if you do feel shame or you can't ask the vulnerable questions, those people that help you dial in your numbers, then that should be your goal for 2025, because that can unlock
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all sorts of things that can set you free. So I didn't want to take it too much further, but I think giving people permission to say like, you know what? I haven't been as on top of it as I'd like to have been. And that's okay. Just to make the decision to make a change. Yeah. That's why knowing your numbers, that's why it's not just my mission for everybody else. It's my personal too, because it's been, it's been a hard year. It's been a hard year for everybody. I want to acknowledge that like any business, I have friends in so many different businesses and
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you know, it's, it's been, it's been a year. And so it's okay to, to, to take a step back. And maybe sometimes it's time to stop things too. I think that people need more permission of like, all right, let's move on. I closed, I was, I was part of another business last year and I, I stopped, I told them I didn't want to be partners anymore. I was, and guess what? It was awesome. We had that exit plan and it was just like, why am I doing this? It was, it was a lot of work and no reward. So I also want to give everybody permission that 2025
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Time to just sit back and see where you want to go next. Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah. Go, Mike.
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What I was going to say is we've talked a bit about your social media stuff for the folks that are just meeting you or the three people that are just meeting you. Tell them about thanks for visiting. Like, what do you guys, what type of content do you make? What type of coaching do you guys do? Like some quick insights on that stuff before we get into the final questions.
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Uh, so thanks for visiting. We like to call ourselves edutainers. So we like to educate and entertain. Like I, I'm goofy. Like I have to have a punchline. So I try to be more serious. It just doesn't, I'm not wired like that. So I have to go with it. But our mission is to uplevel what it means to be a host.
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We are all in this together. I want to just reiterate that we are all in this hosting together. So whether they stay with us, they stay with you, they stay with Cindy in California, like whatever guest experience they have in a short-term rental in an Airbnb, they are going to remember that the next time they book.
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to help everyone up level their hosting, whether it be from hospitality to knowing their numbers to
purchasing their next property. And we do that through our social media, through our YouTube. And then we do have a paid membership for people that want to go deeper and really take their business. So a lot of people are accidental hosts. So we help those accidental hosts become STR professionals. Love that.
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Got to treat it like a business, ladies and gentlemen. I hate to break it to you. Absolutely. So where can the folks connect with you guys and learn more about what you have going on between all the different businesses at this point? Where can they follow you guys?
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Whatever device you're on, if you're on your TV, go to YouTube, type in thanks for visiting. If you're on your computer, thanksforvisiting.com. If you're on Instagram, at thanksforvisiting. So if you just type in thanks for visiting, we should pop up first. And if we don't, send us a DM because I need to work on that. But yeah, if anywhere you're online, search thanks for visiting and we'll be there for you. And we really appreciate the opportunity to share what we create with your audience. So thank you both for having us today.
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Oh, yeah. It's been... You guys are one of my favorite accounts to follow. And so I just wanted to take a second to acknowledge you guys for, one, the goodness that you put out, the vibe. Again, Mike and I have done this for a long time. And we see people come and go. And intentions sometimes are a little bit shady. And then you see the lights, right? You see all the lights in the middle of the storms, the bad economy, the good things. One...
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keep the industry at a certain level. I think we create standards. Our community does, your community does, and there's a couple other ones that do. So I want to appreciate that. And I also appreciate just how kind of fun you make it on the receiving side, as much as having you guys on here. So I just wanted to acknowledge you guys for just who you are as people. That's really kind. Thank you very much.
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Well, I got one more for you. The last question that we ask all of our guests is what is your number one secret to success with short-term rentals? Mike, with the question. Let's just say it. We're going to – can we answer this together? Sure.
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Are you going to sing it? Whatever your heart's desire. We're very passionate. No, I think we're very passionate. I don't know what she's going to say. No, I'm going to say our inspectors. Our inspectors are our secret to success. I mentioned it earlier. Having someone go in the property, inspect it.
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before each and every stay, it has really been a differentiator. It has allowed us to have a higher nightly rate than most everyone in our in our area. They have had a decline. We have had we are beating the market. And I think that's our different.
I know I know that's our differentiator, because for those of you that don't know what an inspector is, they come in after the cleaner because the cleaner comes into a mountain.
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you know, of so much work to do, but the inspector comes in, checks for all the safety components of your home. They're making sure that the Wi-Fi is working, that your streaming is working, that if you leave a welcome gift, it's ready and presentable. They're making sure that
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The property is staged and that guest feels like they are the first guest that has checked in. So this inspector role has really been a secret weapon. And not only for our guests, but for us, we don't even know how many issues that they've just staged.
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stopped, you know, for our guest services for everyone. So we just ask everyone that if you don't have an inspector, maybe the inspector is you, maybe you hire one, maybe it's your cleaner, but they leave the property, come back in with a fresh lens, but definitely have some sort of inspection process, not just a cleaning process, but an inspection before your guests check in. Sarah, are you going to sing that for us now?
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Do you want to add anything? No, I'm not. Yeah, you're not wrong. Yeah, that was pretty great. Yeah. Yeah. And that, yeah, that is our secret sauce. I will die on that hill. Yeah, we've been doing that for, I've been doing that since day one, 2010, and it just hasn't steered me wrong.
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And the math is always math. You can make it work. You can figure it out. And it, yeah. And let's just talk for one second though on the math, because I know a lot of people are like, well, how do you afford that? How do you afford that? If you have ever had to give a refund because something wasn't guest ready or a guest checked in and canceled, like that doesn't happen with us. So you, the money will be there. People before profits, the profits will come. And I'm telling you, you can't, you can't afford not to have someone inspecting the property.
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So I just kind of want to have everyone have a mindset shift there. And your peace of mind is next level. It's invaluable. Exactly. Exactly. Awesome. Well, ladies, thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it for the listeners out there. Make sure you follow. Thanks for visiting and all their amazing goodness that they're putting out in the world. Hope you guys have an amazing week and we'll talk to you soon. Ciao guys.
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Hey, STR Nation. If you enjoyed this episode, please make sure to hit that subscribe button and leave us a review. And in the comments, let us know what topics you want us to cover on upcoming episodes. And we'll make sure to get that in the books for you. And if you really want to learn how to launch, automate, and scale your short-term rental business, if you want to go deeper, then check out our free masterclass at strsecrets.com.