Divorce Mediation DeMystified With Guest Rebecca Stern, JD, CPM: täielik transkriptsioon

learning. Most recently, Rebecca has become a 35 00:02:39.389 --> 00:02:44.490 certified facilitator of the Bridge Experience, a proven divorce education 36 00:02:44.550 --> 00:02:47.939 program in the New York, New Jersey metro area that 37 00:02:47.960 --> 00:02:49.620 will be launching this fall. 38 00:02:50.379 --> 00:02:51.759 Welcome, Rebecca. 39 00:02:52.750 --> 00:02:55.090 Thank you so much for having me, Lisa. I'm excited 40 00:02:55.110 --> 00:02:55.569 to chat. 41 00:02:56.509 --> 00:02:57.969 I'm really thrilled to have you. 42 00:02:58.689 --> 00:03:02.069 As I mentioned earlier, I'm a huge advocate for mediation 43 00:03:02.090 --> 00:03:05.699 during divorce. And what I want to know, because you 44 00:03:05.800 --> 00:03:10.280 have a background of lots of skills, you're an attorney, 45 00:03:10.300 --> 00:03:12.599 I want to hear your story and how you got 46 00:03:12.659 --> 00:03:15.819 into this particular mode of divorce work. 47 00:03:17.759 --> 00:03:20.379 Well, Interesting, actually, the way that you put that, because 48 00:03:20.400 --> 00:03:22.879 you're making me think of a specific answer, which is 49 00:03:22.939 --> 00:03:27.150 not just about mediation and being a divorce professional, but 50 00:03:27.210 --> 00:03:30.909 is also about special needs. And my son, who has 51 00:03:30.969 --> 00:03:34.229 high functioning autism and how I learned the special education 52 00:03:34.310 --> 00:03:37.219 system and helping him when he was going through things 53 00:03:37.300 --> 00:03:40.560 in school and at home, because I originally was a 54 00:03:40.580 --> 00:03:43.819 divorce mediator. Then I had to deal with these other 55 00:03:43.919 --> 00:03:47.539 unexpected challenges with my son. And then I realized these 56 00:03:47.599 --> 00:03:51.360 two things made perfect sense together. And not always, but 57 00:03:51.379 --> 00:03:55.120 I very often now help families build parenting plans. 58 00:03:54.750 --> 00:03:56.909 When they have kids that have special ed needs. 59 00:03:57.370 --> 00:03:59.870 And the reason I think those two things went hand 60 00:03:59.930 --> 00:04:02.449 in hand is they are both systems that are very 61 00:04:02.550 --> 00:04:06.990 broken and that you cannot really get through successfully unless 62 00:04:07.030 --> 00:04:09.849 you know how to be a wonderful advocate for yourself. 63 00:04:10.590 --> 00:04:13.389 it's not just going to all fall into place. You 64 00:04:13.449 --> 00:04:17.009 have to do your homework, get the information, know what's needed, 65 00:04:17.029 --> 00:04:20.550 know what's going to leave you on high ground and 66 00:04:20.649 --> 00:04:23.120 know how to navigate the system so that you can 67 00:04:23.149 --> 00:04:28.500 accomplish what you need. And I really think that professionals 68 00:04:28.600 --> 00:04:31.220 who are in the field that really care about getting 69 00:04:31.279 --> 00:04:35.980 you to that better place, not just getting you through 70 00:04:36.019 --> 00:04:40.300 and surviving are, the ones that are worth it because 71 00:04:40.449 --> 00:04:43.379 we really want you to have all that information at 72 00:04:43.420 --> 00:04:47.459 your fingertips and want you to feel empowered as you 73 00:04:47.500 --> 00:04:50.129 go through things, not just surviving it. 74 00:04:50.699 --> 00:04:51.180 Yeah. 75 00:04:51.660 --> 00:04:56.740 And that's so, so important. I, I have a son who, 76 00:04:56.800 --> 00:04:58.939 when he was six, he was diagnosed with type one 77 00:04:58.959 --> 00:05:03.519 diabetes and it's, it's a different kind of special need, 78 00:05:03.540 --> 00:05:06.100 but it required a lot of accommodation in the school 79 00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:10.329 and becoming a his voice in the school and explaining 80 00:05:10.490 --> 00:05:14.509 what diabetes was to a system that didn't really understand it. 81 00:05:15.350 --> 00:05:19.529 And what wound up in our town is that the 82 00:05:19.629 --> 00:05:24.750 community learned that our school nurse and our principal were 83 00:05:24.850 --> 00:05:28.089 educated in diabetes. And so many of the families were 84 00:05:28.129 --> 00:05:31.790 coming to our school to get those services. And I 85 00:05:31.810 --> 00:05:33.750 had to do the same thing for camp. I had 86 00:05:33.769 --> 00:05:38.490 to educate the camp, the sleepaway camp. So I really 87 00:05:38.529 --> 00:05:42.230 hear where you're coming from. In the special needs world, 88 00:05:42.689 --> 00:05:46.920 there are the school impacts, but there's also the health 89 00:05:46.949 --> 00:05:52.759 system impacts and how that works in families that are 90 00:05:52.800 --> 00:05:58.519 going through a divorce. Something I have noticed, and I'm 91 00:05:58.579 --> 00:06:01.139 sure there are statistics on this, when there is a 92 00:06:01.199 --> 00:06:06.490 family health crisis, both parents don't always navigate it the 93 00:06:06.529 --> 00:06:11.149 same way. And very often there are breaks in the 94 00:06:11.189 --> 00:06:15.189 family and a divorce follows because of the different perspectives 95 00:06:15.250 --> 00:06:16.850 on how to manage a special need. 96 00:06:17.769 --> 00:06:24.680 Even in an intact family, rarely do two parents recognize 97 00:06:25.139 --> 00:06:29.319 and understand and think the support for any kind of 98 00:06:29.379 --> 00:06:34.389 special need is in exactly the same way. Everybody views 99 00:06:34.470 --> 00:06:38.250 everything through their own lens of their own experience. So 100 00:06:38.290 --> 00:06:41.550 it's tough to be on the same page, even if 101 00:06:41.569 --> 00:06:45.209 the couple is married and not having marital troubles. 102 00:06:45.269 --> 00:06:48.129 It's a tough thing to navigate. But yeah, exactly. Every 103 00:06:48.170 --> 00:06:49.750 situation's unique. 104 00:06:50.470 --> 00:06:54.209 And to sort of think there's a cookie cutter solution 105 00:06:54.529 --> 00:06:56.189 is not going

to cut it when your kid has 106 00:06:56.230 --> 00:06:56.910 special needs. 107 00:06:56.970 --> 00:06:58.709 It's also not going to cut it in divorce. 108 00:06:59.339 --> 00:07:05.329 Because there is no way to just apply formulas to 109 00:07:05.370 --> 00:07:08.709 something and think everyone is going to be okay. We 110 00:07:08.730 --> 00:07:12.009 need to understand what's going on, why it's happening, what 111 00:07:12.050 --> 00:07:15.120 everything really looks like to help people come up with 112 00:07:15.129 --> 00:07:16.100 the best solutions. 113 00:07:16.459 --> 00:07:20.779 So I love what you just said, that every family 114 00:07:20.899 --> 00:07:25.660 is a family, not a formula, right? Like formulas exist 115 00:07:26.019 --> 00:07:30.089 to give guidance, right? but formulas are not set in stone. 116 00:07:30.410 --> 00:07:34.430 It's not like the child support formula is for every 117 00:07:34.470 --> 00:07:40.089 family and every background. And so that's something that in mediation, 118 00:07:40.949 --> 00:07:44.490 we can be more flexible and we can really work 119 00:07:44.529 --> 00:07:47.949 with what the family looks like in real life. 120 00:07:48.629 --> 00:07:49.069 That's right. 121 00:07:49.129 --> 00:07:52.009 And we can use, you know, what might happen if 122 00:07:52.050 --> 00:07:55.420 you were in court as guardrails to guide a conversation. 123 00:07:55.850 --> 00:08:00.350 So everyone has parameters and understands if they're negotiating something. Look, 124 00:08:00.410 --> 00:08:04.209 reality is somewhere between here and here. And within that 125 00:08:04.290 --> 00:08:08.389 range is where we're going to find necessary compromise. But 126 00:08:08.670 --> 00:08:11.490 then we get into the weeds of what's really going on. 127 00:08:11.550 --> 00:08:14.329 What is keeping everyone up at night? And then we 128 00:08:14.370 --> 00:08:16.889 can come up with creative solutions for how to find 129 00:08:16.949 --> 00:08:19.410 something that's actually going to make everybody okay. 130 00:08:19.769 --> 00:08:22.689 Yeah. And that's the key is that people. 131 00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:29.660 Need to recognize that when we are dissembling a marriage 132 00:08:30.259 --> 00:08:35.240 and going into family 2.0, we really are trying to 133 00:08:35.360 --> 00:08:39.480 get to a settlement where each partner is going to 134 00:08:39.500 --> 00:08:42.240 be okay and is going to be able to live 135 00:08:42.299 --> 00:08:47.610 their next chapter in a successful way. Because when things 136 00:08:47.710 --> 00:08:52.330 are ordered from the court on high, you feel so disempowered. 137 00:08:52.830 --> 00:08:54.549 But mediation can lift that up. 138 00:08:55.250 --> 00:09:00.929 So mediation allows people to control their own outcome. You 139 00:09:00.980 --> 00:09:04.360 know about your life. You know what's important. You know 140 00:09:04.399 --> 00:09:06.440 what's gone wrong. You know what's worked. 141 00:09:07.259 --> 00:09:09.580 You don't know what a judge ate for breakfast. 142 00:09:09.659 --> 00:09:12.820 And they don't really want you to leave your life 143 00:09:12.980 --> 00:09:15.580 in their hands either. They would prefer that you come 144 00:09:15.639 --> 00:09:18.559 up with your own agreement because you understand your life. 145 00:09:19.240 --> 00:09:19.460 Yeah. 146 00:09:20.370 --> 00:09:24.850 And, you know, my personal experience was that every time 147 00:09:24.870 --> 00:09:28.750 there was a hearing, the court would postpone it or 148 00:09:28.830 --> 00:09:31.210 adjourn it and say, go figure it out yourself. 149 00:09:31.549 --> 00:09:31.789 Right. 150 00:09:32.029 --> 00:09:34.330 And tell two people who can't talk to each other, 151 00:09:34.370 --> 00:09:36.500 who are in like the worst place in their life, 152 00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:42.840 you have to solve this, is so frustrating. But if 153 00:09:42.899 --> 00:09:47.419 you are working with the right mediator, then you can 154 00:09:47.539 --> 00:09:49.799 lift up from that frustration. 155 00:09:50.399 --> 00:09:50.840 Absolutely. 156 00:09:50.879 --> 00:09:54.389 Most people don't even realize that even if you hire 157 00:09:54.450 --> 00:09:57.690 shark attorneys and go straight to court, in most states, 158 00:09:57.750 --> 00:09:59.970 the first thing that's going to happen is that the 159 00:10:00.059 --> 00:10:02.940 court is going to say, well, have you been to mediation? 160 00:10:03.059 --> 00:10:04.559 If you haven't, you need to go. 161 00:10:04.580 --> 00:10:06.639 Yeah, exactly. 162 00:10:07.139 --> 00:10:10.899 So how did you really get to mediation? Because you 163 00:10:10.919 --> 00:10:14.299 were an attorney before, were you a litigant? 164 00:10:14.320 --> 00:10:16.620 Were you a mergers and acquisitions? What kind of lawyer? 165 00:10:16.639 --> 00:10:20.929 I have always done family law. I've always done mediation 166 00:10:21.210 --> 00:10:24.740 right from the jump. I just, I loved negotiating. I 167 00:10:25.759 --> 00:10:30.620 love trying to actually make people okay. And, um, just, 168 00:10:30.720 --> 00:10:32.700 just to go back to the special needs thing, because 169 00:10:32.740 --> 00:10:35.779 there is a link in how I practice to that. 170 00:10:36.440 --> 00:10:39.899 When my son was really little and I was in 171 00:10:40.340 --> 00:10:42.759 dire straits, things were a complete disaster. 172 00:10:42.830 --> 00:10:44.379 I had no idea what was going on. 173 00:10:44.419 --> 00:10:51.830 It I happened to have the good fortune of coming 174 00:10:51.870 --> 00:10:56.370 into contact with an amazing professional, a doctor who, you know, 175 00:10:56.389 --> 00:10:57.789 like there was a wait list. 176 00:10:57.860 --> 00:10:59.000 You couldn't get in. 177 00:10:59.879 --> 00:11:03.179 And I sent her a journal that I had been 178 00:11:03.240 --> 00:11:05.919 keeping of what was going on with my son. 179 00:11:06.840 -->

00:11:10.519 And I surprisingly got this incredible call. 180 00:11:10.279 --> 00:11:14.019 Back the next day. And she said, I read your journal, 181 00:11:14.080 --> 00:11:16.580 not the medical file. I read your journal last night. 182 00:11:17.110 --> 00:11:21.809 I couldn't stop reading it and I can feel your desperation. 183 00:11:22.009 --> 00:11:24.789 And I just want you to know it's going to 184 00:11:24.830 --> 00:11:27.149 be okay. We're going to come up with a plan. 185 00:11:27.620 --> 00:11:29.940 We're going to build a team and we're going to 186 00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:31.679 figure out what's going on here and it's going to 187 00:11:31.700 --> 00:11:37.080 be okay. And that was such a gift. Just having 188 00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:39.740 somebody that I felt like had my back and wasn't 189 00:11:39.779 --> 00:11:44.009 going to leave me floundering. And that feeling that I 190 00:11:44.049 --> 00:11:47.740 got from that experience was, I thought that that's what 191 00:11:48.139 --> 00:11:50.860 my goal is to give my clients is when they 192 00:11:50.940 --> 00:11:53.539 are overwhelmed, they don't know where to turn. They don't 193 00:11:53.559 --> 00:11:56.279 know how to go about it. It's just this mess 194 00:11:56.570 --> 00:11:58.929 and it feels insurmountable. 195 00:11:58.950 --> 00:11:59.470 Yeah. 196 00:11:59.909 --> 00:12:01.690 I want to be there to tell them it's going 197 00:12:01.730 --> 00:12:04.509 to be okay. I might not have every answer, but if. 198 00:12:04.509 --> 00:12:06.009 I don't know something, I know where we're going to 199 00:12:06.049 --> 00:12:09.899 find that answer together and make sure they feel supported 200 00:12:09.919 --> 00:12:12.480 and And that there is an answer to everything and 201 00:12:12.500 --> 00:12:15.179 that we don't leave any stone unturned that's going to 202 00:12:15.250 --> 00:12:17.750 leave them with a life that's not the life that 203 00:12:17.769 --> 00:12:18.830 they're trying to build. 204 00:12:19.230 --> 00:12:19.610 Right. 205 00:12:19.909 --> 00:12:22.629 And so I have to say that like tears came 206 00:12:22.710 --> 00:12:23.809 to my eyes when you. 207 00:12:23.669 --> 00:12:28.750 Talked about how you felt after your support told you 208 00:12:28.769 --> 00:12:31.549 it's going to be okay. Like I've got your back 209 00:12:31.889 --> 00:12:35.370 because that is so powerful. And you also mentioned that, 210 00:12:35.649 --> 00:12:38.129 you know, there's going to be an answer. But what 211 00:12:38.169 --> 00:12:40.110 I want to share is that there's going to be 212 00:12:40.149 --> 00:12:43.909 a few answers and it's not only one thing. So 213 00:12:43.970 --> 00:12:46.590 it's not like if I don't get this, then I 214 00:12:46.669 --> 00:12:50.769 am totally done. But there are lots of ways that 215 00:12:50.909 --> 00:12:52.100 you can get what you need. 216 00:12:52.860 --> 00:12:56.039 I love what you just said, because that I think 217 00:12:56.200 --> 00:12:59.139 is the key to building a great agreement. 218 00:12:59.220 --> 00:13:02.460 Sometimes is to find out what. 219 00:13:02.360 --> 00:13:06.029 Is really keeping everyone up at night and then realize 220 00:13:06.049 --> 00:13:10.149 that Let's say the other party is really stuck on something. 221 00:13:10.509 --> 00:13:13.309 Instead of trying to fight that, take that in as 222 00:13:13.330 --> 00:13:17.570 information and think, OK, this is clearly really important to 223 00:13:17.629 --> 00:13:20.169 them for whatever their reasons are and they're not going 224 00:13:20.200 --> 00:13:23.480 to budge. My best move is to accept that and 225 00:13:23.620 --> 00:13:26.580 figure out, well, how can I get what I need 226 00:13:26.600 --> 00:13:31.169 without messing with that? Maybe we can achieve what they 227 00:13:31.210 --> 00:13:33.840 want and what I want. Maybe there's some other way. 228 00:13:33.879 --> 00:13:36.740 Maybe there's a back door. Maybe there's a different asset. 229 00:13:36.779 --> 00:13:39.120 Maybe there's a different way to structure something with the 230 00:13:39.159 --> 00:13:42.740 kids that allows us to both be okay. 231 00:13:43.559 --> 00:13:44.840 Yeah. Yeah. 232 00:13:45.460 --> 00:13:48.679 I mean, I think so many people go in and 233 00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:52.919 they're so angry at each other that they just want 234 00:13:52.940 --> 00:14:01.330 to destroy their co-parent, their partner. And That perspective doesn't 235 00:14:01.509 --> 00:14:06.289 help them move forward. And I try to share that 236 00:14:06.330 --> 00:14:09.840 with my clients. Okay, so I totally get how you feel. 237 00:14:09.860 --> 00:14:13.679 And let's see what's the best way for you to 238 00:14:13.759 --> 00:14:17.000 get what you want. Because if you're always pushing that, 239 00:14:17.100 --> 00:14:20.120 I'm going to make them mad and I need to button, 240 00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:23.200 then you're not going to get what you want. So again, 241 00:14:23.259 --> 00:14:27.279 it's about rolling back and having a different lens to. 242 00:14:28.120 --> 00:14:29.340 address the. 243 00:14:29.279 --> 00:14:35.889 Situation absolutely it's all information right so you know that 244 00:14:35.950 --> 00:14:40.450 person best right so rather than hanging on to anger 245 00:14:40.509 --> 00:14:43.110 and all the other negative emotions take a look at 246 00:14:43.149 --> 00:14:46.019 it and realize you're divorcing the exact same person you 247 00:14:46.059 --> 00:14:48.019 were married to they are going to do all the 248 00:14:48.059 --> 00:14:51.080 things they did before that drove you crazy times 10 249 00:14:51.080 --> 00:14:53.659 during the divorce so now you know what you're dealing 250 00:14:53.720 --> 00:14:56.059 with now let's come up with a plan that works 251 00:14:56.360 --> 00:14:58.679 given that information Right. 252 00:14:58.740 --> 00:15:00.919 And I say that to my clients a lot, that 253 00:15:01.419 -->

00:15:04.740 they're not going to change for the better while you're 254 00:15:05.179 --> 00:15:06.399 negotiating this settlement. 255 00:15:07.019 --> 00:15:08.399 No, everyone's at their worst. 256 00:15:08.799 --> 00:15:09.960 Everyone's at their worst. 257 00:15:10.019 --> 00:15:12.110 You'll be at your worst and they'll be at their worst. 258 00:15:12.539 --> 00:15:16.049 So you're the only one you can control. Let's figure 259 00:15:16.210 --> 00:15:18.470 out how you can get to a better space for 260 00:15:18.509 --> 00:15:24.330 yourself so that you can make proposals that can get 261 00:15:24.389 --> 00:15:25.149 you what you need. 262 00:15:26.049 --> 00:15:26.769 That's what I always say. 263 00:15:27.340 --> 00:15:30.700 So tell us, walk us through the whole mediation process. 264 00:15:30.740 --> 00:15:33.019 How does it work? Like my clients are like, who 265 00:15:33.039 --> 00:15:35.360 should I call for mediation? Like, what do I say 266 00:15:35.399 --> 00:15:37.759 in that first meeting? So start us from the beginning. 267 00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:38.340 Absolutely. 268 00:15:38.460 --> 00:15:42.460 I would say the basic overview is that either in 269 00:15:42.539 --> 00:15:46.240 person or on Zoom, you and your soon-to-be ex are 270 00:15:46.259 --> 00:15:48.279 going to meet with the mediator and you're going to 271 00:15:48.340 --> 00:15:51.889 walk through everything that goes into your agreement. If you 272 00:15:51.929 --> 00:15:55.429 have kids, hopefully the first half of your agreement is 273 00:15:55.490 --> 00:15:59.059 your parenting plan. So that's legal custody, which is the 274 00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:02.980 decision-making for your children and it's physical custody, which is 275 00:16:03.059 --> 00:16:05.940 time with your children. And within those two areas, there 276 00:16:05.960 --> 00:16:10.100 are obviously a million details. Then after you're done talking 277 00:16:10.139 --> 00:16:12.740 about the kids, you're going to move to everything financial 278 00:16:13.080 --> 00:16:17.100 and we're going to do either equitable distribution or community 279 00:16:17.139 --> 00:16:20.460 property division, depending upon which state you're in, which means 280 00:16:20.500 --> 00:16:24.120 we're dividing your stuff, everything you have, everything you owe 281 00:16:24.259 --> 00:16:28.250 getting divided if it's marital. and going through what's not 282 00:16:28.309 --> 00:16:30.889 marital and how those things work. And we're going to 283 00:16:30.929 --> 00:16:35.009 take care of child support, shared child related expenses. And 284 00:16:35.049 --> 00:16:37.370 then if there's going to be spousal. 285 00:16:36.909 --> 00:16:39.460 Maintenance in any form, which is the same thing as 286 00:16:39.500 --> 00:16:41.019 what we used to call alimony. 287 00:16:41.419 --> 00:16:44.200 So maybe a monthly payment from one person to the other, 288 00:16:44.259 --> 00:16:47.799 if there's an income disparity, or maybe it's

a lump sum. 289 00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:51.100 And usually within property division, if you own a home, 290 00:16:51.210 --> 00:16:52.690 that may be the biggest thing. 291 00:16:52.769 --> 00:16:55.289 If there are businesses, we're going to deal with those. 292 00:16:55.730 --> 00:16:58.919 And then again, lots of details about taxes and all 293 00:16:58.960 --> 00:17:02.620 kinds of things to make sure that your agreement reads 294 00:17:02.659 --> 00:17:06.230 like an instruction manual so everybody knows what to do 295 00:17:06.309 --> 00:17:11.250 going forward and we haven't left anything to argue about later. 296 00:17:11.269 --> 00:17:15.210 So I always think of you have a two-year-old, we're 297 00:17:15.250 --> 00:17:18.450 going to talk about college because you don't want to 298 00:17:18.490 --> 00:17:20.710 have to come back to the table. It's much better 299 00:17:20.759 --> 00:17:24.019 if you can plan for it knowing exactly how you 300 00:17:24.039 --> 00:17:26.559 agreed you're going to do it right from the start. 301 00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:29.420 So we'll talk through all of those issues. 302 00:17:30.039 --> 00:17:33.329 How we talk through it is very different depending upon 303 00:17:33.369 --> 00:17:34.369 who your mediator is. 304 00:17:34.829 --> 00:17:37.309 So for example, if. 305 00:17:37.470 --> 00:17:39.809 I tend to do a lot of higher conflict cases 306 00:17:39.849 --> 00:17:43.289 that people aren't so sure can be mediated, amicable I 307 00:17:43.329 --> 00:17:43.990 do as well. 308 00:17:44.109 --> 00:17:47.839 But let's say it's high conflict. We may not meet together. 309 00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:51.859 We may do a lot of private caucusing, meaning we're 310 00:17:51.880 --> 00:17:54.480 just meeting one-on-one and I'm bringing. 311 00:17:54.180 --> 00:17:56.519 Proposals back and forth between the parties. 312 00:17:57.849 --> 00:18:02.150 Generally, we're collecting the financial information while we're talking about 313 00:18:02.230 --> 00:18:04.630 everything with the children so that by the time we're 314 00:18:04.650 --> 00:18:07.509 done creating that parenting plan, we're. 315 00:18:07.369 --> 00:18:09.890 Ready to roll and start talking property division. 316 00:18:10.410 --> 00:18:10.609 Okay. 317 00:18:10.630 --> 00:18:13.829 So before we get to property division, we're talking about, 318 00:18:13.869 --> 00:18:18.349 you mentioned financial information. So one of the challenges that 319 00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:24.000 I've seen in my clients is the disclosure or non-disclosure 320 00:18:24.019 --> 00:18:31.759 of financial information and how Can we promote disclosure, which 321 00:18:31.859 --> 00:18:35.920 is required disclosure, when we're in mediation and you don't 322 00:18:35.960 --> 00:18:37.819 have the hand of the court behind you? 323 00:18:38.779 --> 00:18:42.009 So I often talk about how we can't make somebody 324 00:18:42.049 --> 00:18:45.710 do something. But what we can do is explain what

325 00:18:45.730 --> 00:18:48.029 will happen if you don't do what you're supposed to do. 326 00:18:48.190 --> 00:18:51.920 And hopefully that motivates you. So in that particular case, 327 00:18:52.019 --> 00:18:56.019 I often talk with someone who maybe we think might be. 328 00:18:55.940 --> 00:18:58.099 Hedging, not want to disclose things. 329 00:18:58.660 --> 00:19:01.299 I explain that what I'm asking them for is the 330 00:19:01.400 --> 00:19:04.900 exact same thing that the state is asking them for. 331 00:19:05.380 --> 00:19:08.519 Every state has some kind of financial disclosure that you 332 00:19:08.599 --> 00:19:11.569 must fill out. If you fill it out and you 333 00:19:11.609 --> 00:19:16.910 have left off some hidden asset somewhere, if it gets 334 00:19:16.990 --> 00:19:19.900 found out, And most of the time it gets found 335 00:19:19.980 --> 00:19:23.079 out eventually. And you have to go back to the 336 00:19:23.180 --> 00:19:28.960 court and they know you've intentionally hidden something. That is 337 00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:31.910 not going to go well for you. You will at 338 00:19:31.950 --> 00:19:35.470 the very least then have to share it with your ex. 339 00:19:36.569 --> 00:19:39.069 And at worst, give the whole thing to the ex. 340 00:19:39.150 --> 00:19:43.150 That's happened before because courts do not like to be deceived. 341 00:19:43.849 --> 00:19:47.759 So I would try to motivate someone to be forthcoming 342 00:19:47.819 --> 00:19:49.970 and transparent about the financials for them. 343 00:19:50.099 --> 00:19:50.410 Reason. 344 00:19:50.950 --> 00:19:53.799 But that said, not everybody is going to be. So 345 00:19:53.880 --> 00:19:57.259 maybe you need a PI. Maybe you need a forensic accountant. 346 00:19:57.519 --> 00:19:58.240 It's possible. 347 00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:00.240 And if you do, then we'll do that. 348 00:20:00.819 --> 00:20:02.539 Okay. Okay. That's great. 349 00:20:03.299 --> 00:20:08.400 What about timing, right? Because sometimes disclosure takes a long time. 350 00:20:09.069 --> 00:20:11.210 And if people are thinking, okay, we're going to do 351 00:20:11.250 --> 00:20:15.910 this in four mediation sessions, what happens if there's a 352 00:20:16.269 --> 00:20:19.950 year in between session one and session two? Is that how, 353 00:20:20.289 --> 00:20:23.130 you know, I'm thinking that's not how you operate, but 354 00:20:23.289 --> 00:20:25.799 I know of circumstances where it does happen that way. 355 00:20:26.650 --> 00:20:26.890 Yeah. 356 00:20:26.910 --> 00:20:29.140 I mean, we try to be as efficient as possible, 357 00:20:29.720 --> 00:20:32.339 but I always sort of do an assessment at the 358 00:20:32.380 --> 00:20:34.960 beginning to see if it's a good idea to put 359 00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:40.019 a temporary agreement in place first and what's really needed. Again, 360 00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:44.440 it depends on the situation, but has anyone filed yet? 361 00:20:44.900 --> 00:20:47.259 Do we need to do something that's called an end 362 00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:51.259 date agreement or a cutoff date agreement where we haven't filed, 363 00:20:51.299 --> 00:20:53.420 but we're creating a little contract that says. 364 00:20:53.900 --> 00:20:55.809 We think we're going to get divorced in the future. 365 00:20:55.960 --> 00:20:58.230 If we do, we're going to treat it as if 366 00:20:58.730 --> 00:21:01.730 September 1st was our date of filing so that we 367 00:21:01.769 --> 00:21:05.589 can protect that status quo and nobody can go out 368 00:21:05.650 --> 00:21:10.059 and do something crazy financially. that they shouldn't be doing 369 00:21:10.119 --> 00:21:13.240 because it's really in anticipation of divorce. 370 00:21:13.819 --> 00:21:15.079 So it depends. 371 00:21:15.319 --> 00:21:18.119 If we need a temporary agreement in place to know 372 00:21:18.180 --> 00:21:21.000 how everyone's going to pay the bills, to know what 373 00:21:21.059 --> 00:21:24.359 support might be paid while you're in the process, then 374 00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:25.920 we'll put those things in place. 375 00:21:26.700 --> 00:21:27.849 Okay, that's great. 376 00:21:27.880 --> 00:21:31.289 So if it's a temporary agreement, does that have to 377 00:21:31.390 --> 00:21:32.849 go to the court first? 378 00:21:33.750 --> 00:21:34.529 Not necessarily. Okay. 379 00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:40.480 Everything really depends on the situation. I have people where 380 00:21:40.660 --> 00:21:42.460 if it's not court ordered, it's like. 381 00:21:42.339 --> 00:21:43.880 It doesn't exist. 382 00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:47.240 Then there are the people that can just sign something 383 00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:49.859 and their attorneys were there and signed it with them. 384 00:21:49.940 --> 00:21:52.980 And that's good. There are people that put something in 385 00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:56.329 an email and we know, okay, good faith. Everybody's going 386 00:21:56.349 --> 00:21:59.109 to stick to it. And that's fine. It just depends 387 00:21:59.190 --> 00:22:00.029 on the situation. 388 00:22:00.869 --> 00:22:03.049 So I appreciate that. 389 00:22:03.170 --> 00:22:06.289 I think that people need to understand that there is 390 00:22:06.329 --> 00:22:11.390 a wide range of options and it is based. 391 00:22:11.210 --> 00:22:12.890 On your specific situation. 392 00:22:13.650 --> 00:22:16.289 One thing that you mentioned was if the attorneys are 393 00:22:16.329 --> 00:22:19.930 there and they sign off on it, that's great for 394 00:22:19.970 --> 00:22:23.680 that family. So how often do clients come to you 395 00:22:24.220 --> 00:22:27.599 with attorneys and without attorneys? Like, do they need an 396 00:22:27.660 --> 00:22:29.579 attorney to mediate? They often ask. 397 00:22:29.599 --> 00:22:33.410 So I always advise clients all of my clients to 398 00:22:33.470 --> 00:22:34.769 have their own attorneys. 399 00:22:34.930 --> 00:22:38.190 But we talk about the difference between

going. 400 00:22:38.009 --> 00:22:43.109 Out and hiring the big shot and hiring somebody who's 401 00:22:43.190 --> 00:22:47.210 mediation friendly, who's going to be your review attorney, that 402 00:22:47.319 --> 00:22:51.099 you understand the purpose of retaining that attorney is to 403 00:22:51.220 --> 00:22:52.799 answer your legal questions. 404 00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:55.640 Because if I'm the mediator, my role is to be neutral. 405 00:22:56.859 --> 00:23:00.319 Someone to review your documents. someone to file all the 406 00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:03.460 paperwork for you at the end. You want somebody who 407 00:23:03.500 --> 00:23:06.680 has backbone and certainly can advocate for you. 408 00:23:07.279 --> 00:23:09.619 But who understands what your goals are. 409 00:23:09.799 --> 00:23:14.480 And if those goals include settling in an efficient way, 410 00:23:14.500 --> 00:23:17.420 you certainly never want to agree to anything you're. 411 00:23:17.259 --> 00:23:18.299 Not comfortable with. 412 00:23:18.619 --> 00:23:22.039 But there is a cost to being done and a 413 00:23:22.099 --> 00:23:26.299 cost to avoiding those hearings and unnecessarily going to court. 414 00:23:26.980 --> 00:23:28.140 Yeah, definitely. 415 00:23:28.769 --> 00:23:32.299 I mean, that's what people look to mediation for is 416 00:23:32.410 --> 00:23:35.559 how can I do this out of court? And some 417 00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:37.420 people look at it, well, I have to just do 418 00:23:37.480 --> 00:23:41.779 this cheaply and mediation is the cheap way to do it. Now, 419 00:23:42.160 --> 00:23:46.049 I try to disabuse them of that notion that mediation 420 00:23:46.109 --> 00:23:49.930 is the efficient way to do it. But we still 421 00:23:50.029 --> 00:23:52.210 need to keep in mind that this is a process 422 00:23:52.769 --> 00:23:53.950 and it takes time. 423 00:23:54.529 --> 00:23:58.480 Sometimes spending a little on something saves you. I tend 424 00:23:58.500 --> 00:24:03.630 to talk about that when we're talking about experts sometimes because, look, 425 00:24:04.589 --> 00:24:06.869 I don't know everything. I'm not afraid to say when 426 00:24:06.930 --> 00:24:11.549 something is beyond my wheelhouse. If we need to value 427 00:24:11.589 --> 00:24:15.599 a multimillion dollar company, I'm not doing that for you. 428 00:24:16.059 --> 00:24:18.299 But I know somebody great we can call, you know, 429 00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:20.519 if you have a really complex tax issue. 430 00:24:20.539 --> 00:24:24.200 Again, we're going to call the person who is the 431 00:24:24.259 --> 00:24:27.940 best divorce CPA who knows how to answer that question. 432 00:24:28.329 --> 00:24:30.269 I'm not going to tell you whether or not you're 433 00:24:30.289 --> 00:24:32.509 going to be able to refinance your home. 434 00:24:33.269 --> 00:24:35.269 Not sure, but I know who we can call. 435 00:24:35.289 --> 00:24:39.210 And bringing those people in sounds like a lot of 436 00:24:39.329 -->

00:24:42.450 extra money, but really it's saving you money if you 437 00:24:42.539 --> 00:24:49.019 are having the correct expert answer that question first time around. Because, 438 00:24:49.039 --> 00:24:52.960 you know, I've seen so many agreements where four different 439 00:24:53.000 --> 00:24:57.390 attorneys were involved and they got something wrong. Because it 440 00:24:57.470 --> 00:25:00.819 wasn't really a legal question. It was something else. And 441 00:25:00.839 --> 00:25:04.440 they didn't consult that expert. So I would rather make 442 00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:06.599 sure you are getting the correct answer. 443 00:25:06.339 --> 00:25:07.279 To your question. 444 00:25:07.299 --> 00:25:11.619 And then we go from there. It's not doubling up. 445 00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:12.759 It's just doing it right. 446 00:25:13.019 --> 00:25:13.240 Right. 447 00:25:13.319 --> 00:25:13.500 No. 448 00:25:13.539 --> 00:25:17.000 So what you're saying is it takes a team, which 449 00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:19.980 is what I always share. So people come to me 450 00:25:20.109 --> 00:25:23.569 and I find the right expert for the right moment. 451 00:25:24.009 --> 00:25:27.069 So if they need mediation, I will call you. If 452 00:25:27.450 --> 00:25:31.849 they need a CDFA, which is a Certified Divorce Financial Analyst, 453 00:25:32.630 --> 00:25:35.319 I will recommend they go there first before they call 454 00:25:35.359 --> 00:25:38.559 a forensic because if you call a forensic before you 455 00:25:38.660 --> 00:25:40.619 know what you're looking for, that's going. 456 00:25:40.539 --> 00:25:41.519 To cost you more money. 457 00:25:41.940 --> 00:25:44.700 But if you call a CDFA, they can help you 458 00:25:44.759 --> 00:25:48.609 spot what you don't know. And then you have more 459 00:25:48.650 --> 00:25:51.369 direction for the forensic so that you can use that 460 00:25:51.450 --> 00:25:56.319 person most effectively. So all of that plays in. 461 00:25:57.299 --> 00:26:00.980 Everyone needs that team. People don't, they think I don't 462 00:26:01.019 --> 00:26:03.079 need a team. I just need to call a lawyer. 463 00:26:03.099 --> 00:26:05.880 No, no, no. You need a team. And what that 464 00:26:05.940 --> 00:26:09.200 team looks like depends upon the information you give me 465 00:26:09.259 --> 00:26:11.519 about what's going on and what you have and what 466 00:26:11.559 --> 00:26:12.420 you're worried about. 467 00:26:13.000 --> 00:26:16.579 And I would say a CDFA is the one professional 468 00:26:16.599 --> 00:26:20.700 I use in almost every case because I want a 469 00:26:20.740 --> 00:26:23.960 financial professional to to be the one who looks at 470 00:26:23.980 --> 00:26:29.230 your financial information, values everything, puts it on a property 471 00:26:29.269 --> 00:26:32.730 division worksheet. So when we have a conversation about this 472 00:26:32.769 --> 00:26:35.769 or that account, we're all looking at the same numbers 473 00:26:35.849 --> 00:26:38.369 on one piece of paper comparing apples to apples. 474 00:26:38.970 --> 00:26:40.130 Yeah. 475 00:26:40.309 --> 00:26:43.900 And they are the experts at looking at it with 476 00:26:43.960 --> 00:26:48.079 divorce in mind. They're looking at it because they already 477 00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:50.460 know certain things might be missing. 478 00:26:51.099 --> 00:26:54.549 They already know Because they're experts in that field. 479 00:26:55.089 --> 00:26:58.529 The thing that drives me nuts more than anything is 480 00:26:58.609 --> 00:27:02.730 somebody in a pressure cooker situation being asked to make 481 00:27:02.769 --> 00:27:07.599 a decision about something. And nobody has paused to say, 482 00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:11.160 the thing you're making the decision about, what's that based on? 483 00:27:11.180 --> 00:27:14.680 Do you have that document? Do you have that information? 484 00:27:14.900 --> 00:27:18.430 And do you understand it? Because I think that's where 485 00:27:18.470 --> 00:27:21.210 the most stress comes from is we're asking people to 486 00:27:21.250 --> 00:27:25.279 make life altering decisions. And we haven't taken the time 487 00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:29.619 to give you the correct information to base that decision on. 488 00:27:29.640 --> 00:27:33.259 I often talk about it with clients like it's a 489 00:27:33.299 --> 00:27:34.200 jigsaw puzzle. 490 00:27:34.539 --> 00:27:34.779 Right. 491 00:27:35.099 --> 00:27:38.180 How could you possibly put the puzzle together if you 492 00:27:38.220 --> 00:27:39.519 don't have all the right pieces? 493 00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:42.299 Right. It's exactly like that. 494 00:27:42.759 --> 00:27:46.519 It's exactly like that. And sometimes I even layer that. 495 00:27:47.150 --> 00:27:51.289 image so that it's really like a Lego because you 496 00:27:51.329 --> 00:27:54.589 need the right pieces, but you're building something different and 497 00:27:54.670 --> 00:27:57.960 unique than what you had before. So that each of 498 00:27:58.019 --> 00:28:04.019 you will get a construction of something that works for you. 499 00:28:04.500 --> 00:28:06.920 It's not going to be the same jigsaw puzzle, but 500 00:28:06.940 --> 00:28:10.140 it's going to be what you have to do with 501 00:28:10.630 --> 00:28:13.109 the information you have and the assets you have. 502 00:28:13.509 --> 00:28:15.289 Like you can't make the assets more than what the 503 00:28:15.369 --> 00:28:15.869 assets are. 504 00:28:17.660 --> 00:28:18.119 That's right. 505 00:28:19.180 --> 00:28:24.240 So, so we talked before about like mediation in amicable, 506 00:28:24.509 --> 00:28:25.839 but you also said. 507 00:28:25.549 --> 00:28:27.609 They can be high conflict. 508 00:28:27.730 --> 00:28:30.730 So how do you, how do you deal with a 509 00:28:30.789 --> 00:28:35.430 couple when they're really aggressively angry. 510 00:28:35.210 --> 00:28:35.730 At each other? 511 00:28:36.369 --> 00:28:36.630 Yeah. 512

00:28:36.670 --> 00:28:38.549 So that first thing was not putting them in a 513 00:28:38.609 --> 00:28:40.069 room together. Right. 514 00:28:40.349 --> 00:28:40.569 Right. 515 00:28:40.630 --> 00:28:41.410 Which is great. 516 00:28:42.049 --> 00:28:45.430 So part of it is, you know, we mentioned neutrality before. 517 00:28:46.119 --> 00:28:48.779 And I always like to explain to clients how I 518 00:28:48.839 --> 00:28:50.920 view neutrality because it may. 519 00:28:50.779 --> 00:28:52.359 Not be everybody's answer. 520 00:28:52.380 --> 00:28:54.859 And it does not mean to me we're going to 521 00:28:54.920 --> 00:28:56.339 treat everyone exactly the same. 522 00:28:56.759 --> 00:28:57.319 Not at all. 523 00:28:57.960 --> 00:29:00.230 It means we're going to create a level playing field. 524 00:29:00.930 --> 00:29:03.829 So if somebody doesn't have access to money, if somebody 525 00:29:03.890 --> 00:29:07.049 doesn't have access to information, if somebody has a much 526 00:29:07.150 --> 00:29:13.200 greater financial education, if there's a difficult personality involved and 527 00:29:13.259 --> 00:29:17.160 that's affecting the power dynamic between these two people and 528 00:29:17.279 --> 00:29:18.940 how they interact with each other. 529 00:29:18.980 --> 00:29:21.619 And maybe one is operating from a position of fear. 530 00:29:22.759 --> 00:29:25.880 We're going to deal with that behind the scenes first 531 00:29:26.099 --> 00:29:31.039 before any negotiation happens so that we have the possibility 532 00:29:31.059 --> 00:29:32.220 of an equitable outcome. 533 00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:32.660 Right. 534 00:29:33.019 --> 00:29:34.880 Then we're not going to put them in a room together. 535 00:29:34.940 --> 00:29:37.359 If it's very high conflict, we're gonna have these separate 536 00:29:37.460 --> 00:29:38.799 private caucus. 537 00:29:38.359 --> 00:29:41.539 Sessions I also don't do all. 538 00:29:41.420 --> 00:29:44.529 Day sessions I know some mediators like to bang the 539 00:29:44.549 --> 00:29:47.230 whole thing out in a day and think that's great 540 00:29:47.369 --> 00:29:50.049 I will never do that I say the longest I 541 00:29:50.109 --> 00:29:53.029 ever go is two hours and Because to me, how 542 00:29:53.069 --> 00:29:57.940 could you possibly make a big decision when you're emotionally exhausted? 543 00:29:58.079 --> 00:30:01.640 And this stuff is really emotionally taxing. So we do 544 00:30:01.700 --> 00:30:04.980 it in shorter spurts. Make sure you're okay. You don't 545 00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:07.980 feel like you're in a pressure cooker. You take a break. 546 00:30:08.019 --> 00:30:11.200 You ask somebody questions. You sleep on it and come 547 00:30:11.240 --> 00:30:14.829 back next time. I think those things are really helpful. 548 00:30:15.450 --> 00:30:19.349 And just acknowledging what's going on that is making it 549 00:30:19.829 --> 00:30:24.180 so high conflict. What's underneath that? Is it what happened 550 00:30:24.220 --> 00:30:27.740 during the marriage? Is it the personalities? And let's deal 551 00:30:27.759 --> 00:30:29.980 with that. And maybe it's stuff we're not dealing with 552 00:30:30.039 --> 00:30:33.039 in mediation, but we're recognizing you need a. 553 00:30:33.019 --> 00:30:35.259 Therapist for this. You need a coach for that. 554 00:30:35.359 --> 00:30:39.140 And again, it's building that team to help support whatever's 555 00:30:39.200 --> 00:30:39.829 going on. 556 00:30:40.740 --> 00:30:44.990 Yeah, that's amazing. What's also amazing is that we're already 557 00:30:45.049 --> 00:30:49.150 at the end of our episode, and we just can 558 00:30:49.190 --> 00:30:52.259 talk forever. I think that what you have shared has 559 00:30:52.339 --> 00:30:56.460 brought so much clarity to what the process of mediation 560 00:30:56.559 --> 00:31:01.160 can be. And any process is scary when you start, 561 00:31:01.640 --> 00:31:03.480 but if you know that you're going to have a 562 00:31:03.529 --> 00:31:07.329 support system, and that's what is built into the mediation 563 00:31:09.190 --> 00:31:12.900 process of the mediator you're choosing... then you have more 564 00:31:12.980 --> 00:31:16.980 confidence going in and you can lean on the other people. 565 00:31:17.160 --> 00:31:20.289 Who are outside of you. So can you tell us how, 566 00:31:20.460 --> 00:31:21.480 how can people find you? 567 00:31:22.460 --> 00:31:28.210 Sure. So my website is rebecca-stern.com. So anybody can find 568 00:31:28.250 --> 00:31:30.829 me on my website. And I'm also, um, I think 569 00:31:30.849 --> 00:31:32.109 I'm going to share with you that you can put 570 00:31:32.130 --> 00:31:34.490 in the show notes, a link directly to get more 571 00:31:34.569 --> 00:31:38.180 information and sign up for the bridge experience. which as 572 00:31:38.200 --> 00:31:40.920 we've been talking all about this team building is a 573 00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:43.660 wonderful way to get that kind of support. It's a 574 00:31:43.720 --> 00:31:47.420 six month program where we take you through everything you 575 00:31:47.460 --> 00:31:49.819 need to know, to have all the information, to know 576 00:31:49.859 --> 00:31:52.519 how to negotiate, to answer all your questions and be 577 00:31:52.559 --> 00:31:55.859 supported in an environment with other women who are going 578 00:31:55.940 --> 00:31:58.559 through it and with lots of great experts popping in 579 00:31:58.599 --> 00:32:00.319 to share information and answer questions. 580 00:32:00.339 --> 00:32:01.920 So let me ask you something about the bridge. 581 00:32:01.980 --> 00:32:04.109 I know we're at the very end and I hate 582 00:32:04.119 --> 00:32:06.609 to give it short shrift, but So the bridge is 583 00:32:06.660 --> 00:32:10.430 a six month program. It's really a divorce education program. 584 00:32:10.809 --> 00:32:13.869 Do you recommend that people come who are in the 585 00:32:13.970 --> 00:32:16.329 middle of

the process? Or do you think that people 586 00:32:16.369 --> 00:32:19.549 who are just about to start the process, that's when I. 587 00:32:20.069 --> 00:32:23.990 Would say anybody can join, but it's probably most beneficial 588 00:32:24.089 --> 00:32:25.849 if you're somewhere near the beginning. 589 00:32:26.509 --> 00:32:30.410 If you haven't even started yet, you're right at the beginning. Perfect. 590 00:32:30.809 --> 00:32:32.769 But even if you're a little bit into the. 591 00:32:32.730 --> 00:32:36.759 Process, but things seem a bit tangled up and confusing, 592 00:32:36.779 --> 00:32:40.480 then that's okay too. That's also a great point to 593 00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:42.279 enter the program because. 594 00:32:42.279 --> 00:32:44.599 We're going to meet every week. You'll be with a 595 00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:46.710 group of other women going through the. 596 00:32:46.660 --> 00:32:50.069 Process and really it's going to be tailored to what's 597 00:32:50.109 --> 00:32:52.869 going on for those individual people. 598 00:32:53.509 --> 00:32:56.789 And it's very much about financial education. 599 00:32:57.460 --> 00:33:00.180 We have Rhonda Nordyke, who's a CDFA I work with 600 00:33:00.420 --> 00:33:03.200 constantly because she's fantastic, who's going to come in and 601 00:33:03.220 --> 00:33:05.029 do a lot of financial education. 602 00:33:05.380 --> 00:33:08.349 We're going to talk co-parenting. We're going to talk. 603 00:33:08.170 --> 00:33:12.109 About how you negotiate everything that you need to make 604 00:33:12.150 --> 00:33:14.690 sure you're getting all the answers to all the right 605 00:33:14.789 --> 00:33:18.029 questions so that you can have a successful outcome. 606 00:33:18.289 --> 00:33:22.630 And that's key, knowing that you have the right questions. 607 00:33:22.730 --> 00:33:25.190 Because sometimes you have so many questions, you don't know 608 00:33:25.230 --> 00:33:26.250 how to articulate them. 609 00:33:26.849 --> 00:33:29.130 And that's scary. And that's a challenge. 610 00:33:29.170 --> 00:33:32.450 So when you have people in the room, they can 611 00:33:33.049 --> 00:33:36.569 inspire the questions and they can have questions that then 612 00:33:36.609 --> 00:33:39.789 will trigger other questions for you. And I think that's 613 00:33:39.829 --> 00:33:44.910 really powerful. So I'm excited to see how the bridge launches. 614 00:33:45.250 --> 00:33:48.569 And I will certainly direct my early in the process 615 00:33:48.609 --> 00:33:53.579 clients toward it. So thank you so much. So it 616 00:33:53.630 --> 00:33:56.339 is so wonderful to have you, Rebecca. I look forward 617 00:33:56.380 --> 00:33:59.859 to having you again on the show. And to my audience, 618 00:33:59.940 --> 00:34:03.279 thank you for listening to the Divorce Clarity Studio. If 619 00:34:03.299 --> 00:34:06.859 you like what you've heard, please subscribe, like, and follow us. 620 00:34:07.339 --> 00:34:09.780 And if someone you know could benefit from this episode, 621 00:34:10.139 --> 00:34:13.639 please share it. Remember, you're not alone, and you can 622 00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:16.900 walk with a guide on your side. And, oh yeah, 623 00:34:17.159 --> 00:34:21.809 just another reminder... Nothing in this program constitutes legal, therapeutic, 624 00:34:21.929 --> 00:34:26.840 or financial advice. We offer education and clarity. And with that, 625 00:34:27.039 --> 00:34:29.739 thanks for listening to the Divorce Clarity Studio. 626 00:34:32.289 --> 00:34:37.670 You're listening to WGSN-DB, Going Solo Network, Singles Talk Radio Channel, 627 00:34:37.949 --> 00:34:41.139 where we take a lighthearted and candid approach to discussions 628 00:34:41.199 --> 00:34:45.460 on the journey of relationship loss, divorce, parenting, being single, 629 00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:50.550 relationships building, dating, and yes, sex. Join our listeners and 630 00:34:50.590 --> 00:34:52.570 begin living your best life.