TRANSCRIPCIÓN 🔗
WEBVTT
00:00:00.150 --> 00:00:03.510
Matt Abrahams: We need to leverage
the way our brains learn and focus to
00:00:03.510 --> 00:00:05.700
help make our messages more memorable.
00:00:06.150 --> 00:00:09.360
My name is Matt Abrahams and I
teach Strategic Communication at
00:00:09.360 --> 00:00:11.400
Stanford Graduate School of Business.
00:00:11.700 --> 00:00:16.320
Welcome to this Quick Thinks episode
of Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast.
00:00:16.800 --> 00:00:20.760
My interview with neuroscientist Carmen
Simon was truly insightful and helpful.
00:00:21.060 --> 00:00:24.939
Carmen provided so many tips and
tools that we simply could not fit
00:00:24.970 --> 00:00:27.189
all of her wisdom into one episode.
00:00:27.610 --> 00:00:31.029
So fasten your seat belts and
get ready to learn more ways to
00:00:31.029 --> 00:00:32.949
make your messages unforgettable.
00:00:34.035 --> 00:00:37.935
Your work distinguishes between
active and passive experiences.
00:00:38.114 --> 00:00:41.685
Do you have any communication guidance
for a leader who wants to turn a routine,
00:00:41.685 --> 00:00:45.644
often boring experience, like a team
meeting or an all hands training of
00:00:45.644 --> 00:00:49.545
some sort, into an experience that's
more active and engaging and memorable,
00:00:49.605 --> 00:00:53.340
so that people will collaborate more,
buy in more, and remember it more?
00:00:53.580 --> 00:00:55.860
Carmen Simon: Yes, I like all
those phrases that you are using
00:00:55.860 --> 00:00:59.790
and one of the hottest trends in
neuroscience is embodied cognition.
00:00:59.970 --> 00:01:03.660
The reason it's one of the hottest trends
is because recognizing that the way we
00:01:03.660 --> 00:01:08.160
come to know the world, perceive it and
eventually build memories and eventually
00:01:08.160 --> 00:01:12.510
build decisions, is not by building
some abstract mental representations.
00:01:12.600 --> 00:01:15.390
Yeah, sure, we do that, but
we come to know the world that
00:01:15.390 --> 00:01:19.020
the intersection of brain body
interacting with the environments.
00:01:19.375 --> 00:01:21.235
Embodied cognition.
00:01:21.655 --> 00:01:25.735
So the more you invite your audiences
to interact with anything, and
00:01:25.735 --> 00:01:30.445
especially physically, then you
are already impacting cognition.
00:01:30.745 --> 00:01:32.575
So how can that happen in real life?
00:01:32.635 --> 00:01:35.665
Some companies are lucky where
they have an experiential center.
00:01:35.979 --> 00:01:37.630
You can invite people in your offices.
00:01:37.630 --> 00:01:41.199
Even this experience right now is
memorable because we could have done
00:01:41.199 --> 00:01:45.399
this very easily, virtually, but now we
are in a studio surrounded by excellent
00:01:45.399 --> 00:01:47.229
people and their skills and equipment.
00:01:47.500 --> 00:01:49.810
Now, more of our senses are involved.
00:01:49.869 --> 00:01:52.720
We can kick it down a notch
because not everybody has
00:01:52.720 --> 00:01:54.429
access to these kinds of spaces.
00:01:54.520 --> 00:01:58.060
One thing that I was able to show in a
neuroscience study I conducted was the
00:01:58.060 --> 00:02:01.899
difference between what happens when
somebody views a presentation passively
00:02:02.120 --> 00:02:06.860
versus when they're asked to type notes
as they're listening to the speaker versus
00:02:06.860 --> 00:02:09.050
when they're asked to hand write notes.
00:02:09.199 --> 00:02:12.890
So of course, that third condition people
in that performed better in terms of
00:02:12.890 --> 00:02:16.850
attention and subsequent memory, because
now think about how much is involved
00:02:16.850 --> 00:02:20.560
when you hand write, your fingers
are in it, the entire hand is in it.
00:02:20.560 --> 00:02:23.709
Your entire arm, your neck, your
shoulders, you're contributing to this.
00:02:23.859 --> 00:02:28.000
Besides when you're handwriting versus
typing, you are synthesizing things
00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:30.940
a little bit more versus when you're
typing, by the way, you're typing more
00:02:30.940 --> 00:02:32.619
verbatim what the other person says.
00:02:32.619 --> 00:02:34.450
So the processing is not so deep.
00:02:34.750 --> 00:02:39.940
So that could be the most benign way in
which we engage the brain and the body
00:02:39.940 --> 00:02:44.799
is simply asking people to take notes,
tell your audience, this is worthwhile.
00:02:44.799 --> 00:02:45.940
This will serve you well.
00:02:45.940 --> 00:02:46.640
Write this down.
00:02:47.085 --> 00:02:49.365
Matt Abrahams: So getting people
to do something where they're
00:02:49.365 --> 00:02:52.015
connecting their physical experience
with their mental experience helps.
00:02:52.845 --> 00:02:56.595
So a technique I often recommend
that people do is to put people
00:02:56.595 --> 00:02:58.875
in a physical place mentally.
00:02:58.875 --> 00:03:03.495
So I use descriptive language, so
the room is dark, it's cold outside.
00:03:03.495 --> 00:03:08.205
Is there a similar effect when it's not
actually physical, but you're getting
00:03:08.205 --> 00:03:10.485
people to envision some physicality?
00:03:10.575 --> 00:03:11.445
Carmen Simon: It's a good proxy.
00:03:11.445 --> 00:03:15.655
So in addition to the vision of
it all, can you apply some motion.
00:03:15.655 --> 00:03:19.345
Like when you said, yeah, it was a
dark room and he kicked a wall in it.
00:03:19.765 --> 00:03:23.454
Now you have the vision plus some
movement that is happening, or the
00:03:23.515 --> 00:03:27.925
air was circulating so much that her
hair became curlier in the moment.
00:03:28.165 --> 00:03:31.915
You see now there is some
action, involve some movement.
00:03:31.915 --> 00:03:34.435
The brain has evolved to
pay attention to movement.
00:03:34.865 --> 00:03:36.815
Lately, even spaces have evolved.
00:03:36.815 --> 00:03:40.625
Like for instance, I
Load full transcript
participated in a
conference and it was held in a castle.
00:03:40.985 --> 00:03:44.555
So sometimes the environment in
itself contributes to making the
00:03:44.555 --> 00:03:46.445
experience a little extra special.
00:03:46.655 --> 00:03:50.045
Another one that I just presented
at recently was in a monastery.
00:03:50.290 --> 00:03:52.480
I've heard of events being held on a boat.
00:03:52.780 --> 00:03:55.690
I've heard of business meetings
happening in something that otherwise
00:03:55.690 --> 00:03:59.230
wouldn't have been considered your
typical and predictable boardroom.
00:03:59.410 --> 00:04:03.970
So one of the reasons they're extra
special is because, remember, it's brain
00:04:03.970 --> 00:04:06.040
body interacting with the environment.
00:04:06.040 --> 00:04:09.660
So the environment itself is
unpredictable, you increase the
00:04:09.660 --> 00:04:11.470
chances of attention and memory.
00:04:11.740 --> 00:04:12.460
Matt Abrahams: Super cool.
00:04:12.460 --> 00:04:15.280
So if you really want to help your
audience, it's not just thinking about
00:04:15.280 --> 00:04:16.810
your message and what you ask them to do.
00:04:16.810 --> 00:04:19.270
The space in which you
do it can have impact.
00:04:20.114 --> 00:04:23.565
I want to turn to two things that are
very important in storytelling, and I'm
00:04:23.565 --> 00:04:27.885
curious to get your perspective on how
they help us with attention and memory.
00:04:28.125 --> 00:04:30.794
The value of intrigue and curiosity.
00:04:31.034 --> 00:04:33.375
These are tools that
get people to lean in.
00:04:33.734 --> 00:04:36.615
What are your thoughts on those and
do you have some research and specific
00:04:36.615 --> 00:04:38.294
advice on how we can leverage those?
00:04:38.594 --> 00:04:40.905
Carmen Simon: It's an interesting
dimension, especially that
00:04:40.905 --> 00:04:42.734
of getting the brain curious.
00:04:42.960 --> 00:04:46.559
And not an easy one to reach because
are you noticing that some people are
00:04:46.559 --> 00:04:51.270
so jaded where whatever you show them
is like, eh, another one of those.
00:04:51.539 --> 00:04:54.929
So this is why I am glad that you have
the wonderful listeners that you're
00:04:54.929 --> 00:04:58.440
talking about because we need people
like them to try a little bit harder
00:04:58.440 --> 00:05:02.369
to instigate and get the brain to
be just a little bit extra excited.
00:05:02.729 --> 00:05:05.489
Obviously, you often rely
on intrinsic motivation.
00:05:05.489 --> 00:05:09.479
Like some people come to your content
and they're intrinsically motivated to
00:05:09.479 --> 00:05:11.789
listen, and they're curious about things.
00:05:12.210 --> 00:05:15.390
When they may not, then you
have the responsibility, can you
00:05:15.390 --> 00:05:17.730
create some tension in the brain?
00:05:18.090 --> 00:05:22.350
What I'm noticing in my research time
and time again is that as we calculate
00:05:22.350 --> 00:05:25.650
emotions, and from a neuroscience
perspective, we have two variables
00:05:25.650 --> 00:05:27.450
that are instrumental to emotion.
00:05:27.450 --> 00:05:27.990
What are they?
00:05:28.350 --> 00:05:31.350
Valence, which is how much the
brain enjoys an experience.
00:05:31.350 --> 00:05:32.700
It could be positive or negative.
00:05:33.109 --> 00:05:37.200
And arousal meaning how alert and awake
people are during that experience.
00:05:37.560 --> 00:05:39.060
So picture this as quadrants now.
00:05:39.060 --> 00:05:43.080
So you have valence on a horizontal axis,
you have arousal on a vertical axis.
00:05:43.485 --> 00:05:47.535
At these quadrants, you have these
intersections of you're really
00:05:47.535 --> 00:05:50.055
amped up and you like something,
and now you're alert, like it
00:05:50.055 --> 00:05:51.975
cannot possibly be nonchalant.
00:05:52.305 --> 00:05:54.375
Matt Abrahams: What immediately
popped into my mind is listening
00:05:54.375 --> 00:05:55.635
to a comedian tell jokes.
00:05:55.905 --> 00:05:59.505
Carmen Simon: So a good standup comedian
doesn't necessarily let you relax lower.
00:05:59.505 --> 00:06:02.415
Right now you can relax a little
bit more, maybe like reading a
00:06:02.415 --> 00:06:06.045
book lower left that's negative
valence, but you're not upset.
00:06:06.460 --> 00:06:10.390
So as you're thinking about these
quadrants, know this lower left
00:06:10.390 --> 00:06:12.400
negative valence and low arousal.
00:06:12.400 --> 00:06:16.480
That's where boredom settles in,
and that's where memories go to die.
00:06:16.900 --> 00:06:20.110
Some people might think that, oh, should
always have things that are positive.
00:06:20.110 --> 00:06:22.420
Either that they amp you up
or they keep you more relaxed,
00:06:22.420 --> 00:06:23.710
but positive nonetheless.
00:06:23.980 --> 00:06:25.240
But that's not what I'm observing.
00:06:25.240 --> 00:06:28.810
Quite often attention and memory
are created at the intersection of
00:06:28.810 --> 00:06:31.060
negative valence and high arousal.
00:06:31.060 --> 00:06:32.310
Now I'm feeling it.
00:06:32.760 --> 00:06:34.260
I'm a little anxious about this.
00:06:34.260 --> 00:06:38.489
There is tension and quite often that
tension can provoke some curiosity,
00:06:38.489 --> 00:06:39.929
which is what you're asking about.
00:06:39.929 --> 00:06:44.130
So I remember we were doing a presentation
about cybersecurity, and this vendor
00:06:44.130 --> 00:06:47.909
was saying, if you use us, we'll help
you manage information, technology
00:06:47.909 --> 00:06:49.859
and OT, operational technology.
00:06:50.340 --> 00:06:55.500
And in the presentation they were saying,
if in IT some of your systems get hacked,
00:06:55.559 --> 00:06:57.419
data gets stolen, there's a breach.
00:06:57.419 --> 00:06:58.590
People lose their jobs.
00:06:58.910 --> 00:07:02.990
OT if a physical object gets
hacked, people can lose their lives
00:07:02.990
--> 00:07:07.160
because if you hack an oil rig for
instance, people can really die.
00:07:07.460 --> 00:07:11.060
So we are just getting like really
deep into this and even the slides
00:07:11.060 --> 00:07:13.880
are turning dark and you could see
like a little cross with a little
00:07:13.880 --> 00:07:15.560
bit of blood dripping off of it.
00:07:16.040 --> 00:07:19.070
Now you can like physically
see this lean in motion.
00:07:19.070 --> 00:07:22.070
The brain is motivated to
keep on going a little bit.
00:07:22.070 --> 00:07:25.850
So from a neuroscience perspective, I
think I would equate this dimension of
00:07:25.850 --> 00:07:31.550
motivation and leaning into a system
versus withdrawing as a sign of curiosity.
00:07:31.550 --> 00:07:33.350
Now tell me a little bit more.
00:07:33.350 --> 00:07:36.500
I'm willing to stay with you
for the next moment over until
00:07:36.500 --> 00:07:37.880
you get me to that lower left.
00:07:37.880 --> 00:07:41.750
You're always just a click away for
lower left, but a bit of tension
00:07:41.750 --> 00:07:43.130
and friction can help you there.
00:07:43.560 --> 00:07:46.710
Matt Abrahams: So as we think about
the stories we tell, the examples
00:07:46.710 --> 00:07:50.280
we use, the testimonials we provide,
we should actually, I think,
00:07:50.280 --> 00:07:54.659
almost map them on your two by two
matrix and see where do they fit.
00:07:54.659 --> 00:07:59.860
And as long as they are arousing in some
way, and the valence isn't as important
00:08:00.120 --> 00:08:03.965
and we can think about how we can drop
those in and I assume we can't have too
00:08:03.965 --> 00:08:05.855
many back to back of all the same kind.
00:08:05.855 --> 00:08:07.325
'Cause it can become almost overwhelming.
00:08:07.385 --> 00:08:07.985
Carmen Simon: It's true.
00:08:07.985 --> 00:08:10.925
It can become overwhelming and you
don't want people to be staying in
00:08:10.925 --> 00:08:14.705
that upper left for too long because
then it is just really draining.
00:08:14.945 --> 00:08:18.215
But a combination of the three,
so upper left, upper right, and
00:08:18.215 --> 00:08:19.745
lower right, those are really good.
00:08:20.015 --> 00:08:23.455
Every so often the brain will go
into a slight state of boredom.
00:08:23.575 --> 00:08:27.215
We can't claim that all of a sudden just
everything is going to be an epiphany.
00:08:27.560 --> 00:08:31.070
Matt Abrahams: You argue that
we often overdeliver on content,
00:08:31.070 --> 00:08:33.230
which creates cognitive overload.
00:08:33.530 --> 00:08:37.340
What are the key communication habits
a person should break to reduce the
00:08:37.340 --> 00:08:40.280
load they put on their audience and
ensure that their core message is
00:08:40.280 --> 00:08:42.350
not only received, but understood?
00:08:42.350 --> 00:08:43.775
So we say more than we
need to it sounds like.
00:08:44.354 --> 00:08:47.954
Carmen Simon: Sometimes we say more than
we need to,
and it's an intriguing concept
00:08:47.954 --> 00:08:50.745
to me because here's the good news for
everybody, especially as the world is
00:08:50.895 --> 00:08:55.425
getting more complex, the brain actually
synchronizes better with that which
00:08:55.425 --> 00:08:57.944
is complex than that which is simple.
00:08:58.245 --> 00:09:00.645
Where does complexity
and overload come in?
00:09:00.734 --> 00:09:03.224
It's not really complexity
that gets us in trouble.
00:09:03.255 --> 00:09:04.454
It's randomness.
00:09:04.780 --> 00:09:08.680
So really when we talk about overload,
we're talking about some random bits and
00:09:08.680 --> 00:09:13.120
pieces that people go on, in and out,
in and out, in and out without enabling
00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:17.850
somebody else's brain to see some patterns
to see how all of these, as difficult as
00:09:17.850 --> 00:09:20.190
they may be, components come together.
00:09:20.580 --> 00:09:24.240
So one practical technique, especially if
we have technical people who like to geek
00:09:24.240 --> 00:09:26.880
out for a moment, is related to fractals.
00:09:27.210 --> 00:09:31.380
So for those of you who may wonder what
are fractals, there are these objects
00:09:31.380 --> 00:09:35.700
or even parts of our bodies have those
properties, objects that have the same
00:09:35.760 --> 00:09:37.920
properties at any level of magnification.
00:09:37.920 --> 00:09:40.770
So for instance, if you picture a
tree, you have the trunk, you have
00:09:40.770 --> 00:09:43.710
the branches, and if you go to the
smallest of the smallest of the
00:09:43.710 --> 00:09:48.120
branch, that low branch has the same
properties as the entire big tree.
00:09:48.329 --> 00:09:50.910
Or if you go to the grocery store,
you see a head of cauliflower.
00:09:51.120 --> 00:09:55.199
The entire head of cauliflower is
composed of these tiny baby heads of
00:09:55.199 --> 00:09:58.949
cauliflower, and those baby heads have
the same properties as the entire head.
00:09:58.949 --> 00:10:01.350
So it's cauliflower all the way down.
00:10:01.709 --> 00:10:04.980
So as a practical technique, think
about all your content, anything
00:10:05.069 --> 00:10:08.520
that you want to share with an
audience, and as complex or seemingly
00:10:08.520 --> 00:10:13.870
overloading as it may be, wonder what
are just some core sets of properties?
00:10:13.870 --> 00:10:16.870
That's where would your 10% message
to come in as well, so that your
00:10:16.870 --> 00:10:20.380
entire content is being perceived
as cauliflower all the way down.
00:10:20.620 --> 00:10:24.370
Because if you have this core that never
changes, then you can elaborate and
00:10:24.370 --> 00:10:28.329
you can add stories, and you can add
details, you can add your analogies, all
00:10:28.329 --> 00:10:30.219
of those beautiful things you mentioned.
00:10:30.520 --> 00:10:33.939
But you won't feel overwhelming because
you're coming back to the same core.
00:10:33.939
--> 00:10:36.910
You're coming back to the
same short set of rules.
00:10:37.235 --> 00:10:40.775
Matt Abrahams: So have a clear through
line that you can connect things to
00:10:40.775 --> 00:10:44.165
rather than, that's why when people
go off on tangents, it can be so
00:10:44.165 --> 00:10:46.625
frustrating and difficult to stay focused.
00:10:47.015 --> 00:10:50.615
So we have to have a clear goal, clear
direction, help our audience see the
00:10:50.615 --> 00:10:52.205
patterns of the things we're saying.
00:10:52.205 --> 00:10:54.155
Carmen Simon: See the patterns,
and just come back home.
00:10:54.155 --> 00:10:58.295
So when we say control your 10%, come
back to that 10% message every so
00:10:58.295 --> 00:11:01.775
often to say, yeah, we went over here
and we went over here, we over here.
00:11:01.775 --> 00:11:06.005
But overall, everything just condenses
down to this one handful of things.
00:11:06.630 --> 00:11:09.930
Matt Abrahams: One of the other things
that strikes me that 90% does is even
00:11:09.930 --> 00:11:13.680
though you might not remember the
content, you might remember the feeling.
00:11:13.860 --> 00:11:18.330
And so even if I only remember 10% of
what you say, I might leave saying,
00:11:18.600 --> 00:11:22.135
she was really on her game and
competent, and that can help me as well.
00:11:22.964 --> 00:11:26.295
Carmen Simon: The strong emotions will
definitely help in a competitive space.
00:11:26.535 --> 00:11:30.375
Challenge yourself to combine
emotion with some verbatim phrases.
00:11:30.675 --> 00:11:34.785
You cannot afford to only operate
on emotions as some, just because
00:11:34.785 --> 00:11:37.995
other companies will also have
their messages and their emotions.
00:11:38.324 --> 00:11:40.814
So ideally it's your combination
that makes it through.
00:11:41.475 --> 00:11:43.575
Matt Abrahams: I have seen your books.
00:11:43.665 --> 00:11:44.925
I've seen your book covers.
00:11:44.925 --> 00:11:47.175
I've seen presentations that you've done.
00:11:47.505 --> 00:11:50.595
Visuals play very strongly in what you do.
00:11:50.925 --> 00:11:55.425
Can you give us some best practices
and advice when using visuals to
00:11:55.425 --> 00:11:56.650
help with memory and engagement?
00:11:57.410 --> 00:11:57.949
Carmen Simon: Yes.
00:11:57.949 --> 00:12:00.800
That is one of my favorite
topics to talk about because with
00:12:00.800 --> 00:12:02.660
neuroscience we can debunk some myths.
00:12:02.839 --> 00:12:05.810
And I'm sure you've heard this
many times before, same for our
00:12:05.810 --> 00:12:09.770
listeners, that some people are visual
learners, some people are auditory
00:12:09.770 --> 00:12:11.270
learners, some are kinesthetic.
00:12:11.569 --> 00:12:15.469
I hope nobody ever repeats those
sentences ever again because
00:12:15.469 --> 00:12:17.599
primarily we are the visual beings.
00:12:17.839 --> 00:12:21.500
60 to 70% of our body receptors,
which is how we take in
the world,
00:12:21.500 --> 00:12:25.260
and we start perceiving things
and building memories are visual.
00:12:25.500 --> 00:12:26.430
We have visual people.
00:12:26.610 --> 00:12:28.980
Assuming of course, you're
visually able, even when you're
00:12:28.980 --> 00:12:30.600
not, you're still seeing inwards.
00:12:30.840 --> 00:12:33.090
You have to take care of your visuals.
00:12:33.450 --> 00:12:36.480
You can do them by showing people
some pictures or by doing what you
00:12:36.480 --> 00:12:39.990
were recommending earlier, which I
really like, enabling the brain to see
00:12:40.265 --> 00:12:42.485
inwards, like building mental images.
00:12:42.875 --> 00:12:44.975
So don't put so much pressure on
yourselves, like suddenly you have
00:12:44.975 --> 00:12:48.365
to come up with some amazing graphics
and you don't have a graphics degree.
00:12:48.425 --> 00:12:51.815
If you do have some sort of
inclination towards the images, what
00:12:51.815 --> 00:12:56.735
I'm doing a lot of research on is
cliché images and cliché phrases.
00:12:56.885 --> 00:13:01.675
I'm noticing that the brain, especially
the global brain, I did a study on this,
00:13:01.885 --> 00:13:04.584
has some comfort with the written cliché.
00:13:05.245 --> 00:13:09.055
So for instance, if you say phrases
like such and such is a game changer,
00:13:09.115 --> 00:13:13.944
or this is a win-win situation, or
data-driven, anything these days,
00:13:14.245 --> 00:13:17.995
I was noticing that as I included
people from the us, people from Asia,
00:13:17.995 --> 00:13:22.045
people from Europe, we have a certain
amount of comfort with a cliché, it's
00:13:22.045 --> 00:13:24.084
almost like it's a universal language.
00:13:24.170 --> 00:13:25.250
People come home.
00:13:25.250 --> 00:13:26.060
It's like, I got it.
00:13:26.089 --> 00:13:27.380
As long as you don't overdo it.
00:13:27.530 --> 00:13:31.310
The clichés in that study, there are
only 5% of the entire communication.
00:13:31.400 --> 00:13:35.930
However, the global brain doesn't
have any energy for cliché images.
00:13:36.140 --> 00:13:37.010
And what are those?
00:13:37.010 --> 00:13:40.670
You wanna take a guess what's the
most cliché image in business content?
00:13:40.880 --> 00:13:42.140
Matt Abrahams: The first thing
that came to mind was like
00:13:42.140 --> 00:13:43.459
a sun rising or something.
00:13:43.459 --> 00:13:44.209
Carmen Simon: You're not far.
00:13:44.209 --> 00:13:46.520
So the mountain, climbing
mountains, and especially
00:13:46.520 --> 00:13:48.380
usually at a sunrise or a sunset.
00:13:48.530 --> 00:13:52.045
And I have to say this, by the way, I
was listening to this incredible keynote
00:13:52.045 --> 00:13:56.035
speaker and he was a mountaineer,
and he said, visualizing business
00:13:56.035 --> 00:13:59.035
success by showing a business person
on top of the mountain is like
00:13:59.035 --> 00:14:00.055
the worst thing that you can do.
00:14:00.385 -->
00:14:04.285
Not only is it cliché, but most
accidents in mountaineering happen
00:14:04.285 --> 00:14:05.515
when you go down the mountain.
00:14:05.815 --> 00:14:09.295
So just to show that you've made it
there at the top, you have made at
00:14:09.295 --> 00:14:12.895
the top, you make it when you come
back down to the bottom unscathed.
00:14:12.975 --> 00:14:13.965
That's success.
00:14:13.965 --> 00:14:15.825
So removing the technicalities.
00:14:15.825 --> 00:14:19.515
Then if we talk about visuals, then we
have to ask, how is it that we avoid the
00:14:19.525 --> 00:14:24.345
clichés, the mountain of it all, and the
chess strategies and the iceberg metaphor.
00:14:24.555 --> 00:14:27.705
So here what we did something with the
iceberg metaphor, because I was reflecting
00:14:27.705 --> 00:14:31.365
on that and I was thinking, you know, the
iceberg metaphor has a good story in it.
00:14:31.370 --> 00:14:34.395
It tells us that at the top you
see something small, but really
00:14:34.395 --> 00:14:35.835
what's important is underneath it.
00:14:36.075 --> 00:14:39.585
So I was challenging our designers
to say, how would you visualize
00:14:39.760 --> 00:14:41.410
there is more to the story.
00:14:41.800 --> 00:14:44.170
So we had three versions
in that presentation.
00:14:44.170 --> 00:14:48.550
One was you're seeing what would appear
as a sharkfin on top of the water, but
00:14:48.550 --> 00:14:52.630
then when you really zoom in under the
water, it is just a regular goldfish.
00:14:52.990 --> 00:14:56.590
And the other one, we were showing
a person climbing a mountain that
00:14:56.590 --> 00:14:58.600
looks like it's covered in snow.
00:14:58.959 --> 00:15:01.510
Then on click, the whole thing
rises, and that's actually
00:15:01.510 --> 00:15:03.040
the top of an ice cream cone.
00:15:03.219 --> 00:15:07.420
So because now you didn't expect that,
you see there's more to the story and that
00:15:07.420 --> 00:15:09.939
unexpected piece was a little bit unusual.
00:15:09.939 --> 00:15:14.230
Or you take any kind of stone structure,
let's just say Stonehenge, and on click,
00:15:14.230 --> 00:15:17.515
you raise it up and you see a few aliens
right underneath there in the dirt.
00:15:18.130 --> 00:15:19.450
There's more to the story.
00:15:19.780 --> 00:15:21.040
Depends on where you wanna take it.
00:15:21.040 --> 00:15:23.980
But see, you can challenge
yourself to say, look at a
00:15:23.980 --> 00:15:26.800
familiar visual and play off of it.
00:15:26.800 --> 00:15:29.320
Jolt the brain out of its habituation.
00:15:29.740 --> 00:15:31.780
Matt Abrahams: So visuals play in a
very important role, and there are
00:15:31.780 --> 00:15:35.650
things we can do through visuals to
stimulate interest and attention.
00:15:36.490 --> 00:15:37.870
Well, there you have it.
00:15:38.020 --> 00:15:42.220
Tips, tools and techniques to make your
messages more memorable and engaging.
00:15:42.660 --> 00:15:45.930
I challenge everyone to apply
Carmen's insights and advice
00:15:45.930 --> 00:15:48.360
into your upcoming communication.
00:15:50.160 --> 00:15:53.189
Thank you for joining us for this
Quick Thinks episode of Think
00:15:53.189 --> 00:15:55.110
Fast Talk Smart, the podcast.
00:15:55.500 --> 00:16:00.420
This episode was produced by Katherine
Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams.
00:16:00.660 --> 00:16:02.130
Our music is from Floyd Wonder.
00:16:02.310 --> 00:16:04.380
With thanks to Podium Podcast Company.
00:16:04.620 --> 00:16:07.800
Please find us on YouTube and
wherever you get your podcasts.
00:16:08.069 --> 00:16:09.930
Be sure to subscribe and rate us.
00:16:10.395 --> 00:16:13.505
Also follow us on LinkedIn,
TikTok, and Instagram.
00:16:13.845 --> 00:16:17.715
And check out fastersmarter.io for
deep dive videos, English language
00:16:17.715 --> 00:16:19.875
learning content, and our newsletter.
00:16:20.235 --> 00:16:24.195
Please also consider joining Think
Fast Talk Smart's Learning Community
00:16:24.285 --> 00:16:25.315
at fastersmarter.io/learning.
00:16:27.165 --> 00:16:30.525
You'll find video lessons, learning
quests, discussion boards, our
00:16:30.525 --> 00:16:32.505
AI coaches, and a book club.
00:16:32.775 --> 00:16:34.305
Again, that's fastersmarter.io/learning.