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Hi guys, Welcome to another episode
of The Factor podcast. I'm your host,
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Jessica Riddle. Welcome and thank you
for listening. In our last episode,
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we heard from doctor David Hopper,
a chiropractor and professor of anatomy and
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physiology at the National University of Health
Sciences. He taught us that the science
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of studying heart rate variability can provide
a comprehensive gauge of our nervous system's flexibility
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and our overall physiological resilience. In
today's episode, will delve into how HRV,
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or heart rate variability functions as a
predictive tool for help management. Will
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explore its role in differentiating between the
sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems, and discuss
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how athletes at all levels can use
HRV data to fine tune their training for
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optimal performance. Doctor Hopper also touches
on how you can utilize HRV monitoring in
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your clinical practice to not only enhance
your patient care, but to provide an
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additional revenue stream. Whether you've tuned
in today to learn more about using HRV
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with your patients or to improve your
own performance, we've got you covered.
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Let's dive in Okay, Now there
is this other thing called frequency domains,
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and as it shows here, we
have white light shining through a prism,
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right, it breaks into all of
its light bands or frequencies of light,
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and it's the same thing with our
heart beats. That we can actually take
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that and we can do a spectral
analysis of that and we can determine the
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sources of power from each of those
readings, and it breaks it into four
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different bands. Now, for our
purposes, we are talking about short term
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measures of HRV. That's average three
to five minute readings. When we get
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into longer term readings and there can
be twenty four hour readings and whatnot,
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then we would see things like our
ultra low frequency band. But in a
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short term reading we cannot see that. Those are things that cycle very slowly,
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so we would not see those things. Within our short term readings,
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we can catch a little bit of
our VLF or our very low frequency and
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if we see that power turned on
or turning up at times, we can
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say that that may be an indication
that vagueal break is not applying itself so
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well. So that is getting into
a bit of polyvagel theory language there,
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but essentially it's that our biggest nerve
is not acting as strongly as it could.
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Now. The next one is our
LF or our low frequency and low
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frequency is going to be an indication
of the power within our barower receptors or
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how well our body is doing with
adapting to that moment to moment to change.
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And that one, if we want
to see we want to see lower
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for the most part. Otherwise again
that can be an indication that our veigas
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nerve does not have its power to
regulate that system as well. And then
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finally we have our high frequency and
our high frequency power. That one we
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want to see high and that is
showing that it is reflecting our vagal tone
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the best with our high frequency power. So baseline readings, Oh, there's
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that slide I was looking for.
On the baseline readings. We have our
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baseline readings and that's what we need
to establish with each patient and it is
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the consistency of these readings that is
going to help us the most. So
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we need we need consistency, and
we need context. We need to know
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what is going on in a person's
life around the time of the reading because
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that really helps us understand what each
reading meant or why we're seeing that.
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For example, I had a patient
who had a huge change in her HIV
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and I saw her in this morning
and I said, hey, what happened
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yesterday? So I have the ability
to see my patient's readings on a back
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end dashboard so I can see when
they're actually taking their readings. And I
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said, hey, what happened yesterday? You dipped way down? And she
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said, oh, I got up
and I and I remembered I had to
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do all this stuff. So I
started started doing the laundry and doing the
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dishes because we had people coming over. And then she said, oh,
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I forgot to take my HRV and
she said a RAM and I sat down
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and I took it real quick,
and then I ran right back to doing
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everything else. And I was like, oh, okay, Well, that's
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why it looks so crazy in comparison, because what did she do, right?
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She loaded her step them with all
these bricks and then took a measurement
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like that, so it was a
very inaccurate look at where she actually was.
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So we just kicked that reading out
right and said it's not valid.
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Right, But if that had been
an actual reading for her, we went
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and said, oh, what that's
going on? Right, Let's take a
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look at everything right. Where is
your temperature at? Are you having signus
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pressure? How did you sleep last
night? We want to look into all
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of these things because that might be
an indication that this person's nervous system is
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starting to crash, making them more
susceptible to fullness injury, all those kinds
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of things. One more thing that
it's said on that last side that I
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should mention as well, is when
we look at HRV, we want to
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know what is normal for you.
That is all that matters. So I
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wouldn't compare my HRV to Jessica's,
and Jessica wouldn't compare her HRV to one
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of my patients, and so on
and so forth, because everybody's experience of
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life is different, and it is
not only your objective experience in life,
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So what happened to you, but
your subjective experience of that as well.
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So we can all have the exact
same thing happened to us, and each
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one of us can have a different
impact on our nervous systems as a result
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of whatever event. Right for me, it might be nothing. I'm just
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blow it right up and think nothing
of it and never think of it again
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in my life, right, whereas
Jessica might have the exact same thing happened
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to her and that might weigh on
her mind night and day for the next
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ten years. And that's because we
can all have our own unique experience and
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just like that, HRV is a
unique number to each of us, so
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we shouldn't be comparing those to each
other. It's not a Hey, my
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HRV is higher than you and n
and this is what it is for me,
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and that's what it is for you, all right. So with HRV,
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the power comes in when we start
to look at trends, so our
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day to day trends. We can
look at that, and you can measure
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multiple times per day if you would
like as well, and you can understand
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how your power shifts throughout the day. So in the morning you might be
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at your most powerful, and as
you go throughout the day, you drain
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that battery down, right, and
by the end of the day you have
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not much left, and you might
feel that because you might be really tired,
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or you might see that you power
up until lunchtime and then you start
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to come back down. And then
we can also test things, so we
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can test things like how food impacts
us. We can test things how a
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workout session impacts our nervous system,
any of those things by measuring HRV immediately
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before, immediately after. All Right, and then are weekly trends. So
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when we zoom out and we start
looking at HRV and weekly trends, we
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can see each week what we are
doing. So do I start off my
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week strong and by Friday I'm out
of gas? Or do I not really
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wake up until Wednesday and then I'm
super powerful on Wednesday, and then as
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the week goes on, I'm doing
pretty good and then I crash for the
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weekends. So everybody's going to have
a different and unique pattern. But what
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we can do when we start to
understand our patterns is we can plan accordingly.
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So I can place my most important
work on my most powerful days,
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at my most important at my most
powerful time of each day. So we
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can do those kinds of things.
Now, we know that that isn't always
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possible, but we can always shift
based on how we can essentially train our
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physiology, and we'll talk about that
in just a second, But we can
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also use HIV. Right, we
can zoom out and we can look at
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monthly trends, yearly trends, seasonal
trends, all these kinds of things to
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help us understand how our physiology shifts
throughout those longer cycles, all right,
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and then the actual application of HIV. So this is where we're talking about
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taking action. And I say running
out of time, so I'm not going
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to spend a horrible amount of time
reading through all of this. But essentially,
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when we are measuring our HIV,
we can avoid hitfalls, so we
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can avoid those, We can avoid
that downtime, with sickness, with injury,
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any of those kinds of things.
We can avoid those times when we
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might have a mental or emotional collapse
because we can see it coming and then
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we can plan for that. We
can help ourselves, and of course we
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as practitioners can help our patients when
we see these things is coming as an
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early warning sign. Right. So
this is how I like to look at
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it and how I like to talk
to patients about it. Is that we
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have a basin of water, and
we have our hot water, we have
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our cold water, and we can
imagine that if we have all this hot
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water coming in to our sink,
right, all these things piling up on
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us. We have all this hot
water pouring in and we barely have any
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of that cold water, right,
barely any of that time for those things
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that help us recharge. We have
two options. One is we can pull
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back and we can turn down the
hot water, or the other is we
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can turn up the cold water.
Okay, and either one is going to
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be valid here. So on any
given week, if you see yourself or
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your patients starting to dive down from
that HRV trend, we know that this
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is going to end poorly. So
what can we do. Well, there's
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always things that can be moved to
tomorrow or move to next week. Right,
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we'll just scratched from the calendar completely, so we can always get rid
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of those things. But what about
when everything is important? At those times
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we need to turn up the cold
water. Okay, So what can we
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do to turn up the cold water
to support ourselves? Or maybe that is
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doing extra time with meditation, Maybe
there's extra time with prayer or whatever it
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is for you. Then maybe it's
doing something like yoga, a soothing movement
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exercise, right, and so that
would be not hot yo, take a
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nap, has spend some extra time
sleeping, Okay, these types of things,
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a walk in nature, laughing with
some friends, going out doing something
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like that to help fill your cup
and help you carry everything that you need.
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Right, so we can always we
can always look at it from those
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those two angry. We can always
turn down the hot or we can at
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least turn up the cold, and
we know that if we don't do that,
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we will likely have a negative outcome. Okay, now, HIV bio
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feedback, I want to make sure
that I do mention this. So this
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is a very powerful process that when
we talk about things like meditation is like
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turning up that cold water, HIV
bio feedback is actually one of the most
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powerful and that is breathing at a
frequency, your resonus frequency breathing rate,
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which is specific to each person.
So we have actually a test done for
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this and once you find that rate
out, then you can do breathing at
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that rate, and you can actually
do this with HRV monitoring and you can
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see how you can change your own
physiology just with breathing. And this is
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really pretty unbelievable. So highly recommend
you check out HRV biofeedback and actually not
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have had anything backs or anything like
that, but our app is the only
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app on the marketplace currently that offers
the test within it developed via Harvard scientists.
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All right, and then making money
with HIV. We want to make
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sure that we are actually using HIV
in a positive way, and how we
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can do that is within our own
practices. We want to make sure we
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are charging for HIV and then building
it into the exam cost, building in
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the cost of the device and the
to the actors right into the exams.
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So that way it's not a all, well, I don't want to use
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HRV within my care plan, No, it's just part of the plan.
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And then what's really cool with this
is even after you've been seeing a patient
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a lot of times, they will
want you to continue monitoring their HRV so
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it can be an ongoing revenue source
as well. Okay, and I know
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they we're running out of time here, but what I took you guys through
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today is these five steps in the
basics of using heart rate variability in your
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practice. So that is that.
So I'm going to open up the floor
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for any questions, so please feel
free to type anything into the chat box
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now and that will be it for
today. Wonderful, Thank you so much.
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Doctor Hopper, we have had a
few questions come in during your presentation.
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One of them was actually very interesting. One of our docs works with
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high level athletes, and he had
an athlete that actually was doing some heart
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rate variability monitoring and his device was
able to pick up visceral stress. Essentially,
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the unit picked up visceral stress in
his body two days before his appendix
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burst, and this was independent from
his training regimen. So this doc was
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curious if the optimal HRV can also
pick up that visceral stress, and if
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you have any similar instances where it's
given you indications of something that was completely
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unrelated to an athlete's training but was
a big spike. I am super curious
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what device that athlete was using to
pick up that visceral stress specifically. And
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that is just amazing though, and
I want to applaud that doctor and that
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athlete for being able for tracking it
and being able to recognize that. So
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that is absolutely an amazing story.
But all HRV is picking up visceral stress
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in that it is measuring your vagus
nerve, which is afferent feedback from your
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viscera. So so to a degree, yes, they all are. But
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I don't know any device that specifically
labels it as visceral stress. I would
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actually be curious what that device was
myself. Absolutely, yeah. So I
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actually was going to connect you with
this doc after the call today. He's
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one of our other instructors, doctor
Tom Teeter. He has the Rehab to
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Fitness course and the Clinical Human Performance
Practitioner course. He was very interested in
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the webinar today. He was sad
he wasn't able to join us live,
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but he was asking me, he
said, definitely ask him about this.
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He very much sees the clinical applications
of HRV, especially when he does a
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lot of training, and the fitness
aspect as well. So that kind of
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leads to the next question. When
you are dealing with high level athletes such
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as those that are training for a
marathon, a triathlon, people who have
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really intense physical workouts on a regular
basis, how do you kind of look
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at the data from a subjective standpoint
and really how are you able to pick
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out those areas where you're like,
Okay, something's going on here, does
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it mainly come up in their recovery
after workout? And can you very easily
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kind of chart that on a graph
to see how well they're recovering after each
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and every workout. So yes,
fortunately it is. It is very straightforward
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when you look at when you look
at the trends, what is happening with
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an athlete. So there is functional
overreaching and there's non functional overreaching. And
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when an athlete is training, like
most athletes are training to peak at a
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certain time of their season or for
a certain event, and we want to
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see functional overreaching happening throughout different periods
of their training program. And that's going
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to be that we see that HRV
trending down, but not drastically down.
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That we see it trending down,
but then we allow that time for recovery,
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and we can see them go back
up and a lot of times either
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go back up to their baseline or
go even above their baseline slightly, and
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then they stay there. Now we
know that they're fully recovered and we know
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that they're ready to be pushed again, and then we can push them back
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down for another training block essentially,
and then once then wants to push them
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down, and what we'll notice is
that it takes a little bit more to
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push them down that next time then
recover and bounce back up and we can
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go through that cycle and then of
course encourage that cycle to go until we
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hit where we want to be for
a peak time of season or for whatever
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sporting event it may be. And
on the other end of that can be
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that non functional overreaching where we see
an athlete pushing themselves, pushing themselves,
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and even though subjectively and objectively we
see them going down, down, down,
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down, down, we don't take
that time for recovery, and as
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a result, we see them completely
crash and wind up getting injured or something
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like that. Unfortunate may happen.
Has there been any research or data that
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you can speak to that has linked
some of the things that we know are
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issues with high performance athletes, such
as rabdose situations or situations where they're on
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a really high Essentially their adrenals are
just tanked, their cortisol is through the
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roof because they aren't taking that time
to recover. Have there been any studies
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down that have utilized HRV is one
of those data points for looking at at
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some of those indications that someone is
leading to burnout. So yes, there
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definitely are those studies out there,
and real quick I do want to mention
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with this and with the last this
doesn't have to be just about athletes as
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well. This is high level CEOs
and all of that are using HRV for
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the same thing for performance as well. But with that, like you asked
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about, there's a great start utilizing
CrossFit athletes and showing how predictive it is
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of them reaching that non functional overreaching
and then pushing themselves into injury where very
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clearly the displays that they are going
into this non functional space and then all
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of a sudden we see them get
injured. On on the other side of
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the coin. Now with rebbing,
my licenis and I'm not familiar with a
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study that is that is on that
specifically, but I don't spend a ton
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of time in the athlete realm,
so they're very well maybe maybe one out
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there on that. So speaking to
your everyday patients, to those that are
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coming in that maybe are just trying
to perform better at work. Maybe it's
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a high stress job like a stay
at home mom, which we all know
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is one of the most stressful jobs
there is out there. Indeed, start
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having these conversations in your patient visits. When someone first comes in, you
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do your initial exam, what does
that look like, and how do you
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start introducing this concept of HRV in
that conversation. The first thing that I
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like to do is, if it
is possible. Most of the time it
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is, I like to have a
patient come in and get an HRV device
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and connect to the app before they
even become a patient mine. So from
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the I want to become a patient
for whatever reason, well, then I
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say, okay, please come in
and pick up an HRV device and we're
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going to use you log in for
an app for the app, and we
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start tracking their physiology before they even
come in the door. And the reason
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why I find that very important is
because we know what normal looked like for
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them before they walked in our door. And that's good because that helps me
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understand where they are at. But
it also is really good because then in
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another month, I can show them
where we've gone. Right, so I
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can say, this is what you
look like before you walked indoor, here's
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where you are now. But I
explain it as we are going to track
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your heart rate variability throughout your care
plan here, and the heart rate variability
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is going to guide our care plan
and help us understand how your body is
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reacting to the treatment plan that we
are providing. So that can be for
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example, with physical therapy, occupational
therapy, anything like that. If you
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walk in the door and we do
take patients, If we take a patients
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HIV right when they walk in the
door and we see that they are down
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that day, right or we saw
that from their baseline reading that they are
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down that date, We're not going
to challenge them at such a high level.
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00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:02.279
We're going to give them things that
they are more used to for their
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training program that day. Now,
the opposite could be true as well,
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that if they are on a day
we'll call a green day right or go
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date, and they walk into our
door, then we know that we can
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challenge them with a novel experience.
We know that we can make their correctives
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00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:18.799
a little bit more challenging that day. We challenge the nervous system in a
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new way. So we use that
as our guide perfect. I think that's
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00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:29.559
wonderful. And in terms of your
patients using HRV and giving themselves a little
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bit of that biofeedback as you discussed, do you find that your patients tend
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00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:40.200
to be a little more compliant with
your recommendations because they have that visual feedback
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00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:42.599
kind of letting them know, Okay, holy cow, like I didn't sleep
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00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:48.200
well last night, my hydration is
awful, I was on the computer a
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00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:51.880
little bit too late last night.
Like do you find that in your time
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00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:56.799
working before using HRV versus seeing patients
now using HRV as an integral part of
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00:20:56.799 --> 00:21:02.240
your patient care, that there's a
big difference in terms of how your patients
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00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:04.720
are compliant with things. Yes,
And I will say I've never worked without
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00:21:04.960 --> 00:21:10.119
HIV, but I worked with it
more on, not as regular as an
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00:21:10.119 --> 00:21:15.400
everyday basis before and having patients use
it every day as a total game changer
292
00:21:15.799 --> 00:21:18.559
in that, Yes, it does
help with that self compliance and they will
293
00:21:18.599 --> 00:21:22.960
even call themselves out. I'll have
patients walking and they'll be like, look
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00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:25.240
at what I did to myself,
And I'll like, I went from a
295
00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:27.279
forty to twenty just because I didn't
sleep last night. Whatever it is,
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00:21:27.880 --> 00:21:32.440
And yes, it does help with
that compliance piece a bunch, and it
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00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:36.000
becomes kind of a game how much
can I drive my HRV up? And
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00:21:36.119 --> 00:21:38.480
unfortunately for some people as well as
look what I did to my HIV this
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00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:45.440
weekend, but at least they understand
what they're doing. When you have patients
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00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:49.359
that are on weight loss journeys,
those that are looking to lose significant amounts
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00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:55.200
of weight or just starting to become
active Again, do you tend to notice
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00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:59.960
a pretty consistent study upward trend.
Are there still peaks and valleys a lot
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00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:04.079
the way based upon any given lifestyle
change in an average day? And have
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00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:10.200
you had many patients that utilize the
HRV as just another point of feedback as
305
00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:15.799
they're on this journey to betterhelp Yes, with any significant health change, there
306
00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:21.000
is always peaks and valleys. Unfortunately, it's never just a straight shot up
307
00:22:21.160 --> 00:22:23.000
right, So we'll always have those
peaks and values. There will always be
308
00:22:23.039 --> 00:22:26.640
good in bad days. And even
when you are doing everything right, it
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00:22:26.759 --> 00:22:32.400
is still a stress on your autonomic
nervous system and stressed none the less,
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00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:37.839
right, is it going to be
reflected in your HRV. So when you
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00:22:37.880 --> 00:22:40.319
are doing all the right things right, yeah, we are going to see
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00:22:40.359 --> 00:22:45.119
some down days. But as long
as we see that general trend going in
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00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:48.200
the right direction, that is a
positive. And again, it doesn't always
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00:22:48.200 --> 00:22:52.119
have to be that you shot up
dramatically, right, that you doubled your
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00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:56.119
HRV in six months or something like
that, because a lot of times that's
316
00:22:56.200 --> 00:23:02.920
just not realistic. But if you
maintain that baseline or you raise it a
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00:23:02.960 --> 00:23:07.480
bit, that is a huge win, especially when we pair it with making
318
00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:11.839
positive lifestyle changes, then we may
see that we may see that larger level
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00:23:11.960 --> 00:23:18.240
raise in the long term. Absolutely, I can see that for certain.
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00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:22.640
Throughout the years that you've been using
HRV in practice with your patients and even
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00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:26.240
some of the data that I'm sure
you've poured over with general studies that you've
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00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:32.279
seen, are there any things that
have surprised you, like any times where
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00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:36.119
you've seen a spike or even a
dip an HRV and it was from a
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00:23:36.200 --> 00:23:40.640
cause that you didn't necessarily anticipate would
have as big of an impact. So
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00:23:41.119 --> 00:23:45.599
there's a wonderful lady who who used
our app and everything for a study at
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00:23:45.640 --> 00:23:52.559
Villanova and they were doing a study
on anorexia. And although this is quite
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00:23:52.599 --> 00:23:56.880
a process, we know that it's
doing destructive things to the human body.
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00:23:57.359 --> 00:24:04.640
HRV actually tends to be much higher
in those in that patient population than in
329
00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:10.119
the average paid population, and actually
we're trying to understand why that is.
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00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:12.960
You know that fasting will actually raise
your HRV, and in that case,
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00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:17.279
I mean it's kind of an extreme
form of fasting, but we can't imagine
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00:24:17.319 --> 00:24:19.759
when it becomes destructive to the body
that it would continue to look like a
333
00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:23.480
good thing to your autonomic nervous system. So that one is quite puzzling.
334
00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:27.079
Yeah, that's absolutely fascinating. I'm
sure that that's got a lot of the
335
00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:33.359
scientific community kind of digging into that
to find out more. One final question
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00:24:33.400 --> 00:24:36.079
for you, I'm sure you probably
get this a lot, especially when you
337
00:24:36.119 --> 00:24:40.359
start introducing your patients to HRV.
How often are you getting that question?
338
00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:45.319
What should my optimal HRV be?
How do you explain to patients like,
339
00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:48.200
there's not a magic number that's the
same for every single person. Are there
340
00:24:48.319 --> 00:24:56.200
ranges that are ideal based upon age
groups or is it really just so individualized
341
00:24:56.200 --> 00:25:03.680
to each person. So unfortunately,
there are norms tables out there, and
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00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:07.720
I say unfortunately because because then right
away that's all just go and look and
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00:25:07.720 --> 00:25:11.960
see how they compare to a norm's
chart, and I can say, when
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00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:15.000
it comes to HIV, there is
no normal. It's whatever's normal for you.
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00:25:15.160 --> 00:25:18.400
So yeah, you can look at
the norms charts, but as you
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00:25:18.440 --> 00:25:21.720
will see, I would say,
you don't want to be normal you want
347
00:25:21.720 --> 00:25:27.240
to always be above normal. So
all that really matters is your norm and
348
00:25:27.279 --> 00:25:33.519
your baseline, and that you are
staying around or above your baseline. Those
349
00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:37.039
are the keys. And even to
say that, right, we also want
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to challenge our physiology on a regular
basis, so we do want to see
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00:25:38.759 --> 00:25:42.920
that up and down on a regular
basis too. It's just that our average
352
00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:48.279
is staying about the same or raising
throughout our lifetime. And of course that
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00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:56.880
being said too, with age,
HRV naturally will decline as well. That's
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00:25:56.960 --> 00:26:00.119
wonderful information. Well, I know
this has been incredibly education for our audience
355
00:26:00.119 --> 00:26:04.039
today. I think this is a
really interesting science and especially one that could
356
00:26:04.039 --> 00:26:11.079
be very impactful for the majority of
our audience, which of course are chiropractors,
357
00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:15.839
our physical therapists, athletic trainers,
those people that are working with general
358
00:26:15.839 --> 00:26:18.599
populations that are trying to get them
to take better care of themselves, to
359
00:26:18.680 --> 00:26:22.599
become more active, to have better
help. And it sounds like this really
360
00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:29.720
creates an incredible opportunity for patients to
have that feedback so that they can track
361
00:26:29.759 --> 00:26:33.039
their progress over time. So how
would someone get in touch with you if
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00:26:33.039 --> 00:26:37.440
they have questions? If you could
give me maybe an email address or something
363
00:26:37.480 --> 00:26:41.079
I can put here in the chat, I'll let everyone know how they could
364
00:26:41.079 --> 00:26:44.079
follow back up with you. Is
there a best way that I should tell
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00:26:44.119 --> 00:26:47.119
people to get in touch with you
if they have more questions about your device,
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00:26:47.319 --> 00:26:49.559
your trainings, or of course any
of the research that you've done here.
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00:26:51.240 --> 00:26:56.200
Yes, absolutely so. OPTIMALHRV dot
com is our website and that is
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00:26:56.240 --> 00:27:02.440
for our app and our device,
and then Dave at Optimal HRV. David
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00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:06.839
OPTIMALHV dot com is my email.
And then also I have no problem with
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00:27:06.880 --> 00:27:11.759
people calling or texting, So my
phone is three one two nine six one
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00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:15.000
seven seven three four, and I'm
always happy to call our text with buddy
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00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:19.759
at any time to help them out
with better understanding HRV or connecting in whatever
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00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:25.640
way they would like. Wonderful.
Thank you so much. We really appreciate
374
00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:27.599
you coming on today and sharing this
information. Thank you so much, Doctor
375
00:27:27.640 --> 00:27:42.319
Harper, We appreciate you coming on
today. That's it for today's episode.
376
00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:47.039
Be sure to tune in for episode
eighty one, where we will be kicking
377
00:27:47.079 --> 00:27:52.960
off a new training on common conditions
and rehab techniques for mixed martial Artists with
378
00:27:52.119 --> 00:27:56.359
doctor Nate Stagwiz, you won't want
to miss it. Episode eighty one drops
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sure to check those out,
1
00:00:17.120 --> 00:00:21.120
Hi guys, Welcome to another episode
of The Factor podcast. I'm your host,
2
00:00:21.239 --> 00:00:26.000
Jessica Riddle. Welcome and thank you
for listening. In our last episode,
3
00:00:26.000 --> 00:00:30.280
we heard from doctor David Hopper,
a chiropractor and professor of anatomy and
4
00:00:30.320 --> 00:00:35.520
physiology at the National University of Health
Sciences. He taught us that the science
5
00:00:35.560 --> 00:00:41.600
of studying heart rate variability can provide
a comprehensive gauge of our nervous system's flexibility
6
00:00:41.880 --> 00:00:48.799
and our overall physiological resilience. In
today's episode, will delve into how HRV,
7
00:00:49.119 --> 00:00:54.399
or heart rate variability functions as a
predictive tool for help management. Will
8
00:00:54.439 --> 00:01:00.600
explore its role in differentiating between the
sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems, and discuss
9
00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:04.719
how athletes at all levels can use
HRV data to fine tune their training for
10
00:01:04.799 --> 00:01:11.920
optimal performance. Doctor Hopper also touches
on how you can utilize HRV monitoring in
11
00:01:11.959 --> 00:01:15.480
your clinical practice to not only enhance
your patient care, but to provide an
12
00:01:15.480 --> 00:01:21.519
additional revenue stream. Whether you've tuned
in today to learn more about using HRV
13
00:01:21.640 --> 00:01:25.519
with your patients or to improve your
own performance, we've got you covered.
14
00:01:25.920 --> 00:01:42.959
Let's dive in Okay, Now there
is this other thing called frequency domains,
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and as it shows here, we
have white light shining through a prism,
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right, it breaks into all of
its light bands or frequencies of light,
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and it's the same thing with our
heart beats. That we can actually take
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that and we can do a spectral
analysis of that and we can determine the
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sources of power from each of those
readings, and it breaks it into four
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different bands. Now, for our
purposes, we are talking about short term
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measures of HRV. That's average three
to five minute readings. When we get
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into longer term readings and there can
be twenty four hour readings and whatnot,
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then we would see things like our
ultra low frequency band. But in a
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short term reading we cannot see that. Those are things that cycle very slowly,
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so we would not see those things. Within our short term readings,
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we can catch a little bit of
our VLF or our very low frequency and
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if we see that power turned on
or turning up at times, we can
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say that that may be an indication
that vagueal break is not applying itself so
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well. So that is getting into
a bit of polyvagel theory language there,
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but essentially it's that our biggest nerve
is not acting as strongly as it could.
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Now. The next one is our
LF or our low frequency and low
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frequency is going to be an indication
of the power within our barower receptors or
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how well our body is doing with
adapting to that moment to moment to change.
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And that one, if we want
to see we want to see lower
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for the most part. Otherwise again
that can be an indication that our veigas
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nerve does not have its power to
regulate that system as well. And then
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finally we have our high frequency and
our high frequency power. That one we
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want to see high and that is
showing that it is reflecting our vagal tone
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the best with our high frequency power. So baseline readings, Oh, there's
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that slide I was looking for.
On the baseline readings. We have our
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baseline readings and that's what we need
to establish with each patient and it is
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the consistency of these readings that is
going to help us the most. So
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we need we need consistency, and
we need context. We need to know
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what is going on in a person's
life around the time of the reading because
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that really helps us understand what each
reading meant or why we're seeing that.
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For example, I had a patient
who had a huge change in her HIV
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and I saw her in this morning
and I said, hey, what happened
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yesterday? So I have the ability
to see my patient's readings on a back
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end dashboard so I can see when
they're actually taking their readings. And I
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said, hey, what happened yesterday? You dipped way down? And she
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said, oh, I got up
and I and I remembered I had to
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do all this stuff. So I
started started doing the laundry and doing the
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dishes because we had people coming over. And then she said, oh,
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I forgot to take my HRV and
she said a RAM and I sat down
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and I took it real quick,
and then I ran right back to doing
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everything else. And I was like, oh, okay, Well, that's
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why it looks so crazy in comparison, because what did she do, right?
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She loaded her step them with all
these bricks and then took a measurement
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like that, so it was a
very inaccurate look at where she actually was.
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So we just kicked that reading out
right and said it's not valid.
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Right, But if that had been
an actual reading for her, we went
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and said, oh, what that's
going on? Right, Let's take a
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look at everything right. Where is
your temperature at? Are you having signus
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pressure? How did you sleep last
night? We want to look into all
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of these things because that might be
an indication that this person's nervous system is
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starting to crash, making them more
susceptible to fullness injury, all those kinds
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of things. One more thing that
it's said on that last side that I
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should mention as well, is when
we look at HRV, we want to
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know what is normal for you.
That is all that matters. So I
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wouldn't compare my HRV to Jessica's,
and Jessica wouldn't compare her HRV to one
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of my patients, and so on
and so forth, because everybody's experience of
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life is different, and it is
not only your objective experience in life,
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So what happened to you, but
your subjective experience of that as well.
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So we can all have the exact
same thing happened to us, and each
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one of us can have a different
impact on our nervous systems as a result
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of whatever event. Right for me, it might be nothing. I'm just
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blow it right up and think nothing
of it and never think of it again
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in my life, right, whereas
Jessica might have the exact same thing happened
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to her and that might weigh on
her mind night and day for the next
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ten years. And that's because we
can all have our own unique experience and
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just like that, HRV is a
unique number to each of us, so
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we shouldn't be comparing those to each
other. It's not a Hey, my
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HRV is higher than you and n
and this is what it is for me,
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and that's what it is for you, all right. So with HRV,
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the power comes in when we start
to look at trends, so our
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day to day trends. We can
look at that, and you can measure
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multiple times per day if you would
like as well, and you can understand
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how your power shifts throughout the day. So in the morning you might be
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at your most powerful, and as
you go throughout the day, you drain
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that battery down, right, and
by the end of the day you have
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not much left, and you might
feel that because you might be really tired,
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or you might see that you power
up until lunchtime and then you start
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to come back down. And then
we can also test things, so we
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can test things like how food impacts
us. We can test things how a
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workout session impacts our nervous system,
any of those things by measuring HRV immediately
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before, immediately after. All Right, and then are weekly trends. So
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when we zoom out and we start
looking at HRV and weekly trends, we
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can see each week what we are
doing. So do I start off my
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week strong and by Friday I'm out
of gas? Or do I not really
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wake up until Wednesday and then I'm
super powerful on Wednesday, and then as
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the week goes on, I'm doing
pretty good and then I crash for the
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weekends. So everybody's going to have
a different and unique pattern. But what
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we can do when we start to
understand our patterns is we can plan accordingly.
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So I can place my most important
work on my most powerful days,
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at my most important at my most
powerful time of each day. So we
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can do those kinds of things.
Now, we know that that isn't always
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possible, but we can always shift
based on how we can essentially train our
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physiology, and we'll talk about that
in just a second, But we can
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also use HIV. Right, we
can zoom out and we can look at
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monthly trends, yearly trends, seasonal
trends, all these kinds of things to
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help us understand how our physiology shifts
throughout those longer cycles, all right,
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and then the actual application of HIV. So this is where we're talking about
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taking action. And I say running
out of time, so I'm not going
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to spend a horrible amount of time
reading through all of this. But essentially,
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when we are measuring our HIV,
we can avoid hitfalls, so we
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can avoid those, We can avoid
that downtime, with sickness, with injury,
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any of those kinds of things.
We can avoid those times when we
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might have a mental or emotional collapse
because we can see it coming and then
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we can plan for that. We
can help ourselves, and of course we
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as practitioners can help our patients when
we see these things is coming as an
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early warning sign. Right. So
this is how I like to look at
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it and how I like to talk
to patients about it. Is that we
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have a basin of water, and
we have our hot water, we have
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our cold water, and we can
imagine that if we have all this hot
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water coming in to our sink,
right, all these things piling up on
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us. We have all this hot
water pouring in and we barely have any
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of that cold water, right,
barely any of that time for those things
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that help us recharge. We have
two options. One is we can pull
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back and we can turn down the
hot water, or the other is we
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can turn up the cold water.
Okay, and either one is going to
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be valid here. So on any
given week, if you see yourself or
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your patients starting to dive down from
that HRV trend, we know that this
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is going to end poorly. So
what can we do. Well, there's
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always things that can be moved to
tomorrow or move to next week. Right,
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we'll just scratched from the calendar completely, so we can always get rid
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of those things. But what about
when everything is important? At those times
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we need to turn up the cold
water. Okay, So what can we
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do to turn up the cold water
to support ourselves? Or maybe that is
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doing extra time with meditation, Maybe
there's extra time with prayer or whatever it
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is for you. Then maybe it's
doing something like yoga, a soothing movement
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exercise, right, and so that
would be not hot yo, take a
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nap, has spend some extra time
sleeping, Okay, these types of things,
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a walk in nature, laughing with
some friends, going out doing something
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like that to help fill your cup
and help you carry everything that you need.
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Right, so we can always we
can always look at it from those
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those two angry. We can always
turn down the hot or we can at
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least turn up the cold, and
we know that if we don't do that,
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we will likely have a negative outcome. Okay, now, HIV bio
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feedback, I want to make sure
that I do mention this. So this
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is a very powerful process that when
we talk about things like meditation is like
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turning up that cold water, HIV
bio feedback is actually one of the most
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powerful and that is breathing at a
frequency, your resonus frequency breathing rate,
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which is specific to each person.
So we have actually a test done for
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this and once you find that rate
out, then you can do breathing at
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that rate, and you can actually
do this with HRV monitoring and you can
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see how you can change your own
physiology just with breathing. And this is
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really pretty unbelievable. So highly recommend
you check out HRV biofeedback and actually not
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have had anything backs or anything like
that, but our app is the only
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app on the marketplace currently that offers
the test within it developed via Harvard scientists.
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All right, and then making money
with HIV. We want to make
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sure that we are actually using HIV
in a positive way, and how we
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can do that is within our own
practices. We want to make sure we
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are charging for HIV and then building
it into the exam cost, building in
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the cost of the device and the
to the actors right into the exams.
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So that way it's not a all, well, I don't want to use
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HRV within my care plan, No, it's just part of the plan.
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And then what's really cool with this
is even after you've been seeing a patient
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a lot of times, they will
want you to continue monitoring their HRV so
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it can be an ongoing revenue source
as well. Okay, and I know
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they we're running out of time here, but what I took you guys through
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today is these five steps in the
basics of using heart rate variability in your
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practice. So that is that.
So I'm going to open up the floor
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for any questions, so please feel
free to type anything into the chat box
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now and that will be it for
today. Wonderful, Thank you so much.
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Doctor Hopper, we have had a
few questions come in during your presentation.
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One of them was actually very interesting. One of our docs works with
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high level athletes, and he had
an athlete that actually was doing some heart
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rate variability monitoring and his device was
able to pick up visceral stress. Essentially,
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the unit picked up visceral stress in
his body two days before his appendix
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burst, and this was independent from
his training regimen. So this doc was
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curious if the optimal HRV can also
pick up that visceral stress, and if
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you have any similar instances where it's
given you indications of something that was completely
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unrelated to an athlete's training but was
a big spike. I am super curious
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what device that athlete was using to
pick up that visceral stress specifically. And
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that is just amazing though, and
I want to applaud that doctor and that
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athlete for being able for tracking it
and being able to recognize that. So
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that is absolutely an amazing story.
But all HRV is picking up visceral stress
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in that it is measuring your vagus
nerve, which is afferent feedback from your
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viscera. So so to a degree, yes, they all are. But
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I don't know any device that specifically
labels it as visceral stress. I would
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actually be curious what that device was
myself. Absolutely, yeah. So I
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actually was going to connect you with
this doc after the call today. He's
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one of our other instructors, doctor
Tom Teeter. He has the Rehab to
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Fitness course and the Clinical Human Performance
Practitioner course. He was very interested in
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the webinar today. He was sad
he wasn't able to join us live,
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but he was asking me, he
said, definitely ask him about this.
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He very much sees the clinical applications
of HRV, especially when he does a
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lot of training, and the fitness
aspect as well. So that kind of
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leads to the next question. When
you are dealing with high level athletes such
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as those that are training for a
marathon, a triathlon, people who have
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really intense physical workouts on a regular
basis, how do you kind of look
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at the data from a subjective standpoint
and really how are you able to pick
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out those areas where you're like,
Okay, something's going on here, does
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it mainly come up in their recovery
after workout? And can you very easily
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kind of chart that on a graph
to see how well they're recovering after each
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and every workout. So yes,
fortunately it is. It is very straightforward
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when you look at when you look
at the trends, what is happening with
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an athlete. So there is functional
overreaching and there's non functional overreaching. And
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when an athlete is training, like
most athletes are training to peak at a
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certain time of their season or for
a certain event, and we want to
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see functional overreaching happening throughout different periods
of their training program. And that's going
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to be that we see that HRV
trending down, but not drastically down.
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That we see it trending down,
but then we allow that time for recovery,
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and we can see them go back
up and a lot of times either
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go back up to their baseline or
go even above their baseline slightly, and
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then they stay there. Now we
know that they're fully recovered and we know
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that they're ready to be pushed again, and then we can push them back
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down for another training block essentially,
and then once then wants to push them
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down, and what we'll notice is
that it takes a little bit more to
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00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:18.679
push them down that next time then
recover and bounce back up and we can
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go through that cycle and then of
course encourage that cycle to go until we
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hit where we want to be for
a peak time of season or for whatever
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sporting event it may be. And
on the other end of that can be
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that non functional overreaching where we see
an athlete pushing themselves, pushing themselves,
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and even though subjectively and objectively we
see them going down, down, down,
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down, down, we don't take
that time for recovery, and as
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a result, we see them completely
crash and wind up getting injured or something
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like that. Unfortunate may happen.
Has there been any research or data that
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you can speak to that has linked
some of the things that we know are
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issues with high performance athletes, such
as rabdose situations or situations where they're on
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a really high Essentially their adrenals are
just tanked, their cortisol is through the
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roof because they aren't taking that time
to recover. Have there been any studies
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down that have utilized HRV is one
of those data points for looking at at
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some of those indications that someone is
leading to burnout. So yes, there
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definitely are those studies out there,
and real quick I do want to mention
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with this and with the last this
doesn't have to be just about athletes as
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well. This is high level CEOs
and all of that are using HRV for
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the same thing for performance as well. But with that, like you asked
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about, there's a great start utilizing
CrossFit athletes and showing how predictive it is
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of them reaching that non functional overreaching
and then pushing themselves into injury where very
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clearly the displays that they are going
into this non functional space and then all
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of a sudden we see them get
injured. On on the other side of
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the coin. Now with rebbing,
my licenis and I'm not familiar with a
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study that is that is on that
specifically, but I don't spend a ton
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of time in the athlete realm,
so they're very well maybe maybe one out
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there on that. So speaking to
your everyday patients, to those that are
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coming in that maybe are just trying
to perform better at work. Maybe it's
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a high stress job like a stay
at home mom, which we all know
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is one of the most stressful jobs
there is out there. Indeed, start
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having these conversations in your patient visits. When someone first comes in, you
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do your initial exam, what does
that look like, and how do you
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start introducing this concept of HRV in
that conversation. The first thing that I
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like to do is, if it
is possible. Most of the time it
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is, I like to have a
patient come in and get an HRV device
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and connect to the app before they
even become a patient mine. So from
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the I want to become a patient
for whatever reason, well, then I
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say, okay, please come in
and pick up an HRV device and we're
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going to use you log in for
an app for the app, and we
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start tracking their physiology before they even
come in the door. And the reason
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why I find that very important is
because we know what normal looked like for
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them before they walked in our door. And that's good because that helps me
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understand where they are at. But
it also is really good because then in
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another month, I can show them
where we've gone. Right, so I
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can say, this is what you
look like before you walked indoor, here's
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where you are now. But I
explain it as we are going to track
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your heart rate variability throughout your care
plan here, and the heart rate variability
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is going to guide our care plan
and help us understand how your body is
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reacting to the treatment plan that we
are providing. So that can be for
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example, with physical therapy, occupational
therapy, anything like that. If you
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walk in the door and we do
take patients, If we take a patients
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HIV right when they walk in the
door and we see that they are down
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that day, right or we saw
that from their baseline reading that they are
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down that date, We're not going
to challenge them at such a high level.
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We're going to give them things that
they are more used to for their
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training program that day. Now,
the opposite could be true as well,
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that if they are on a day
we'll call a green day right or go
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date, and they walk into our
door, then we know that we can
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challenge them with a novel experience.
We know that we can make their correctives
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a little bit more challenging that day. We challenge the nervous system in a
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new way. So we use that
as our guide perfect. I think that's
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wonderful. And in terms of your
patients using HRV and giving themselves a little
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bit of that biofeedback as you discussed, do you find that your patients tend
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to be a little more compliant with
your recommendations because they have that visual feedback
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kind of letting them know, Okay, holy cow, like I didn't sleep
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well last night, my hydration is
awful, I was on the computer a
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little bit too late last night.
Like do you find that in your time
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00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:56.799
working before using HRV versus seeing patients
now using HRV as an integral part of
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your patient care, that there's a
big difference in terms of how your patients
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are compliant with things. Yes,
And I will say I've never worked without
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HIV, but I worked with it
more on, not as regular as an
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00:21:10.119 --> 00:21:15.400
everyday basis before and having patients use
it every day as a total game changer
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00:21:15.799 --> 00:21:18.559
in that, Yes, it does
help with that self compliance and they will
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00:21:18.599 --> 00:21:22.960
even call themselves out. I'll have
patients walking and they'll be like, look
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00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:25.240
at what I did to myself,
And I'll like, I went from a
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00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:27.279
forty to twenty just because I didn't
sleep last night. Whatever it is,
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00:21:27.880 --> 00:21:32.440
And yes, it does help with
that compliance piece a bunch, and it
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00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:36.000
becomes kind of a game how much
can I drive my HRV up? And
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00:21:36.119 --> 00:21:38.480
unfortunately for some people as well as
look what I did to my HIV this
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weekend, but at least they understand
what they're doing. When you have patients
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00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:49.359
that are on weight loss journeys,
those that are looking to lose significant amounts
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00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:55.200
of weight or just starting to become
active Again, do you tend to notice
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00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:59.960
a pretty consistent study upward trend.
Are there still peaks and valleys a lot
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00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:04.079
the way based upon any given lifestyle
change in an average day? And have
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00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:10.200
you had many patients that utilize the
HRV as just another point of feedback as
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00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:15.799
they're on this journey to betterhelp Yes, with any significant health change, there
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00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:21.000
is always peaks and valleys. Unfortunately, it's never just a straight shot up
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right, So we'll always have those
peaks and values. There will always be
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00:22:23.039 --> 00:22:26.640
good in bad days. And even
when you are doing everything right, it
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is still a stress on your autonomic
nervous system and stressed none the less,
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00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:37.839
right, is it going to be
reflected in your HRV. So when you
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00:22:37.880 --> 00:22:40.319
are doing all the right things right, yeah, we are going to see
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00:22:40.359 --> 00:22:45.119
some down days. But as long
as we see that general trend going in
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00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:48.200
the right direction, that is a
positive. And again, it doesn't always
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have to be that you shot up
dramatically, right, that you doubled your
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00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:56.119
HRV in six months or something like
that, because a lot of times that's
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00:22:56.200 --> 00:23:02.920
just not realistic. But if you
maintain that baseline or you raise it a
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00:23:02.960 --> 00:23:07.480
bit, that is a huge win, especially when we pair it with making
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00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:11.839
positive lifestyle changes, then we may
see that we may see that larger level
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00:23:11.960 --> 00:23:18.240
raise in the long term. Absolutely, I can see that for certain.
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00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:22.640
Throughout the years that you've been using
HRV in practice with your patients and even
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00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:26.240
some of the data that I'm sure
you've poured over with general studies that you've
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seen, are there any things that
have surprised you, like any times where
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you've seen a spike or even a
dip an HRV and it was from a
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00:23:36.200 --> 00:23:40.640
cause that you didn't necessarily anticipate would
have as big of an impact. So
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00:23:41.119 --> 00:23:45.599
there's a wonderful lady who who used
our app and everything for a study at
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Villanova and they were doing a study
on anorexia. And although this is quite
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a process, we know that it's
doing destructive things to the human body.
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00:23:57.359 --> 00:24:04.640
HRV actually tends to be much higher
in those in that patient population than in
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00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:10.119
the average paid population, and actually
we're trying to understand why that is.
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00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:12.960
You know that fasting will actually raise
your HRV, and in that case,
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I mean it's kind of an extreme
form of fasting, but we can't imagine
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00:24:17.319 --> 00:24:19.759
when it becomes destructive to the body
that it would continue to look like a
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00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:23.480
good thing to your autonomic nervous system. So that one is quite puzzling.
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00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:27.079
Yeah, that's absolutely fascinating. I'm
sure that that's got a lot of the
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00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:33.359
scientific community kind of digging into that
to find out more. One final question
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00:24:33.400 --> 00:24:36.079
for you, I'm sure you probably
get this a lot, especially when you
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00:24:36.119 --> 00:24:40.359
start introducing your patients to HRV.
How often are you getting that question?
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00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:45.319
What should my optimal HRV be?
How do you explain to patients like,
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00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:48.200
there's not a magic number that's the
same for every single person. Are there
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00:24:48.319 --> 00:24:56.200
ranges that are ideal based upon age
groups or is it really just so individualized
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00:24:56.200 --> 00:25:03.680
to each person. So unfortunately,
there are norms tables out there, and
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00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:07.720
I say unfortunately because because then right
away that's all just go and look and
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00:25:07.720 --> 00:25:11.960
see how they compare to a norm's
chart, and I can say, when
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00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:15.000
it comes to HIV, there is
no normal. It's whatever's normal for you.
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00:25:15.160 --> 00:25:18.400
So yeah, you can look at
the norms charts, but as you
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will see, I would say,
you don't want to be normal you want
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00:25:21.720 --> 00:25:27.240
to always be above normal. So
all that really matters is your norm and
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00:25:27.279 --> 00:25:33.519
your baseline, and that you are
staying around or above your baseline. Those
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are the keys. And even to
say that, right, we also want
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to challenge our physiology on a regular
basis, so we do want to see
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that up and down on a regular
basis too. It's just that our average
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is staying about the same or raising
throughout our lifetime. And of course that
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00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:56.880
being said too, with age,
HRV naturally will decline as well. That's
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00:25:56.960 --> 00:26:00.119
wonderful information. Well, I know
this has been incredibly education for our audience
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00:26:00.119 --> 00:26:04.039
today. I think this is a
really interesting science and especially one that could
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00:26:04.039 --> 00:26:11.079
be very impactful for the majority of
our audience, which of course are chiropractors,
357
00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:15.839
our physical therapists, athletic trainers,
those people that are working with general
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00:26:15.839 --> 00:26:18.599
populations that are trying to get them
to take better care of themselves, to
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00:26:18.680 --> 00:26:22.599
become more active, to have better
help. And it sounds like this really
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00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:29.720
creates an incredible opportunity for patients to
have that feedback so that they can track
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00:26:29.759 --> 00:26:33.039
their progress over time. So how
would someone get in touch with you if
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00:26:33.039 --> 00:26:37.440
they have questions? If you could
give me maybe an email address or something
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00:26:37.480 --> 00:26:41.079
I can put here in the chat, I'll let everyone know how they could
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00:26:41.079 --> 00:26:44.079
follow back up with you. Is
there a best way that I should tell
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00:26:44.119 --> 00:26:47.119
people to get in touch with you
if they have more questions about your device,
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00:26:47.319 --> 00:26:49.559
your trainings, or of course any
of the research that you've done here.
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00:26:51.240 --> 00:26:56.200
Yes, absolutely so. OPTIMALHRV dot
com is our website and that is
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00:26:56.240 --> 00:27:02.440
for our app and our device,
and then Dave at Optimal HRV. David
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00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:06.839
OPTIMALHV dot com is my email.
And then also I have no problem with
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00:27:06.880 --> 00:27:11.759
people calling or texting, So my
phone is three one two nine six one
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00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:15.000
seven seven three four, and I'm
always happy to call our text with buddy
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00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:19.759
at any time to help them out
with better understanding HRV or connecting in whatever
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00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:25.640
way they would like. Wonderful.
Thank you so much. We really appreciate
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00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:27.599
you coming on today and sharing this
information. Thank you so much, Doctor
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00:27:27.640 --> 00:27:42.319
Harper, We appreciate you coming on
today. That's it for today's episode.
376
00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:47.039
Be sure to tune in for episode
eighty one, where we will be kicking
377
00:27:47.079 --> 00:27:52.960
off a new training on common conditions
and rehab techniques for mixed martial Artists with
378
00:27:52.119 --> 00:27:56.359
doctor Nate Stagwiz, you won't want
to miss it. Episode eighty one drops
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