00:00:00
Speaker 1: This is the Macpherson Angle.
00:00:03
Speaker 2: Well, good evening and welcome to the program. Thanks for joining me on the Macpherson Angle. Here's what's coming up tonight. The Labour Party faces a wipeout in Victoria with One Nation on track to become the official opposition, which is quite incredible because right now no one's even sure the One Nation leader will be allowed to participate in this week's leaders debate. the wife of the adviser on national security to the British prime minister, is under investigation over alleged support for a terrorist organisation. And members of the British public are now being interviewed by police for liking Israel too much. I'll talk to Tom Slater about those crazy developments. And Elon Musk invents the world's first ever flying car. But do you think people can be happy about it? When everything is political, nothing is enjoyable. But I am sure going to enjoy Elon's flying car. I'll show you some incredible uses for a flying car a little later in the program. But first, what would happen if you took mass migration, multiculturalism.
00:01:04
Speaker 3: Soft on crime policies.
00:01:06
Speaker 2: and an education system that teaches people to resent their own country's history and throw the lot into an ideological blender.
00:01:13
Speaker 3: What would happen?
00:01:15
Speaker 2: It's an important question because Australia's political class is busy assembling precisely that recipe, apparently convinced that if you mix enough incompatible ingredients together.
00:01:25
Speaker 3: You get social cohesion.
00:01:27
Speaker 2: Or perhaps they think reality is something that happens to other people. Either way, it's worth looking at where this experiment might end up. And the answer after this weekend, well, it's pretty clear to see. Now, I know what you're thinking. You're thinking, is that Melbourne?
00:01:58
Speaker 3: Well, no, not yet. This weekend, it's France.
00:02:02
Speaker 2: That vision posted online by Reuters captured some of the many violent protests right across France. Widespread arson, vandalism, pillaging, 150 police injured, more than 1,200 arrests. All the usual symptoms of a society discovering that good intentions are not, in fact, a substitute for functioning institutions. The French Prime Minister released a statement saying, it's time to choose your side, whether that of the Republic or that of the rioters. Now, you can see the problem with that statement, right? Apparently, you've got to wait until the country is on fire before deciding whether you're on the side of civilisation or the people setting fire to it. For years, the French have been sold the same collection of fashionable delusions now being marketed to Australians. Borders are mean. Western culture is oppressive. Diversity, that's a strength. Criminals are just misunderstood victims awaiting rehabilitation. Radicalismists, they're really just lonely people in need of a hug and a funded community outreach program which Labour are never short of supplying. And anyone who points out that, you know, some cultures are more compatible with a free society than others is immediately informed that the real problem is their attitude. And the sermon continues until reality interrupts. And reality, unlike a university lecturer, is not obliged to give you a passing grade for your good intentions. Which brings us to one of the most heartbreaking images from the weekend. Here's a young white French woman pleading with the mob not to ransack her family's shop. She begs them to stop, and perhaps because she's been assured all her life that diversity is a strength, she keeps asking the obvious question.
00:03:45
Speaker 3: Why? Why?
00:03:46
Speaker 2: And then, seemingly unable to comprehend what's happening, she tells the mob, but this is not the cause. I'm not sure I've seen a better metaphor for the West than what happened to that woman. Standing in front of a mob, begging them not to destroy the business her family presumably worked hard to build.
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Speaker 3: Why are you doing this? She asks them. I thought you wanted what we wanted.
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Speaker 2: It's the question Western civilisation keeps asking its own demolition crew. We were told that mass migration would enrich us, that multiculturalism would unite us, that importing people from societies with radically different values would somehow produce a stronger, more cohesive society. And whenever anyone asked how this was supposed to work, they were accused of being divisive. Now, when the predictable consequences arrive, we're told the answer is more integration programs, more funding, more dialogue and more carefully worded statements about how violence doesn't represent the overwhelming majority. And maybe it doesn't. But the woman standing in front of the mob is still the one who has to clean up the mess. Diversity is our strength.
00:04:51
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure.
00:04:52
Speaker 2: Tell that to the insurance company. I'm not sure if this is a better metaphor, but it's certainly worth considering. The mob cheered as the 143-year-old Hotel De Ville collapsed in a blaze of fire.
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Speaker 3: Take a look.
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Speaker 2: A century-old building incinerated by people who could never have built it, and they cheered.
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Speaker 3: For what?
00:05:31
Speaker 2: And yet that's the Western world right now, mobs whose greatest achievement is a, I don't know, a degree in gender studies, burning down a civilization they could never have built. Heck, they don't even understand their own civilization. They want the West's prosperity without its principles, the West's freedoms without its responsibilities, and the West's institutions without the cultural inheritance that made those institutions possible. There's one more striking image from the weekend's riots. Not police cars pelted with rocks, not department stores being looted by migrant gangs, not thousands of people protesting in the streets beneath flags waved in support of Islamic terrorists. No, this last bit of vision I want to show you is from Friday night. While all of that and worse was happening, here's the French president, Emmanuel Macron.
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Speaker 4: MUSIC PLAYS.
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Speaker 2: Yep, while the country was being burned to the ground, the leader of the country was at a Celine Dion concert. There's something almost Shakespearean about that. The kingdom is in flames, the streets are in revolt, the institutions are under attack and the nation's leadership is enjoying a night at a concert. The image is devastating because it captures something larger than an evening scheduling decision. It captures the distance between the political class and the consequences of the politicians' decisions. For years, Western leaders have treated the concerns of ordinary people about immigration, crime, assimilation, national identity as regrettable inconveniences. People who raised those concerns were lectured about tolerance, scolded for their ignorance and assured that everything was under control. Now the streets are telling a rather different story. And while citizens are left to wonder whether their businesses will survive the night, their leaders are busy demonstrating that the show must go on.
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Speaker 3: Perhaps that's the real tragedy of the modern West.
00:07:33
Speaker 2: Not simply that we've imported problems we're unwilling to confront. Not simply that we've allowed our institutions to weaken while insisting that everything is actually getting better. Maybe the real tragedy is that the ruling class have become so invested in their own narrative that that they can barely recognise the disaster unfolding right outside the concert hall. Australia should pay attention. We're not Europe and we're certainly not France. Our circumstances are different and of course the future isn't predetermined but the ingredients being assembled here are fairly familiar enough. Mass migration without sufficient attention to assimilation, multiculturalism treated as an unquestionable good, an increasingly indulgent attitude towards crime, and an education system that too often teaches young Australians to regard their own inheritance with suspicion. None of this makes riots inevitable, but neither does repeating the word diversity make social cohesion inevitable. A country's not held together by slogans. It's held together by shared loyalties, common expectations, enforceable laws, and a willingness to defend the civilization that makes peaceful coexistence possible. Ignore those things long enough, and eventually the people who built the house will find themselves standing outside it asking the mob, why are you smashing the windows? Speaking of the disconnect between our political class and the, I don't know, the real world, analysis of Labor's federal cabinet by the Daily Telegraph has revealed only three government ministers have small business experience.
00:09:20
Speaker 3: I know, right? Who would have guessed?
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Speaker 2: Only three of the Albanese cabinet's 23 ministers have ever run a small business. Little wonder small businesses are being crushed under the weight of government incompetence. And I don't know, where would you like to start? I mean, we could talk about the ban on credit card surcharges that increased expenses for small businesses and their customers. I think that's what the Albanese government calls a win-win. Then there's the ATO's decision not to accept credit cards from small businesses and the government's decision to keep that decision to themselves. Or should we talk about a 30% tax on income from discretionary trusts? What about the fact our governments now require cafes to have well over 20 different kinds of licences just to make a cup of coffee? We have government ministers with little to no experience running businesses but they're experts at regulating businesses. So should we really be surprised by headlines like this one from today's Adelaide Advertiser? Small business owners' mental health crisis revealed. The article goes on to say, small business owners drowning in debt, smashed by rising costs and a quagmire of regulation, tax and policy changes are turning to financial counsellors and mental health services in record numbers, triggering fears of an emerging crisis. So while the Prime Minister is in New York receiving Global Citizen Awards, and Anika Wells is glorying in her nomination by Time magazine of one of the world's most influential up-and-comers, and while Chris Bowen is sprouting around in Fiji as president of global warming, and while Anne Ali is spending a week in Paris signing a memorandum on gender equality, back in the real world, people's lives are being ruined by these clowns. Back to the Adelaide Advertiser story. Cases dealt with by the Small Business Debt Helpline, which was set up in 2020 in the wake of the devastating Black Summer bushfires, well, calls to that helpline.
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Speaker 3: Have increased by 31%.
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Speaker 2: 7,963 calls in the year to August. Its financial counsellors are currently dealing with over 40 cases every day, more than at any other time since its launch in 2020. These are not abstract economic indicators.
00:11:31
Speaker 3: These are people.
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Speaker 2: who've put their savings, their time and often their family's financial security on the line to build something of their own. And increasingly, they're discovering the biggest business challenge they face is not their competitors. It's not even their customers or the economy. It's their own government. Joining me now is former Labor MP Michael Danby and Shadow Regional Health Minister Anne Webster. Welcome to you both. Anne, I'll start with you. Is there a connection between the lack of real world experience of the political class and the problems we're seeing in the real world as a result of government decisions?
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Speaker 4: Well, James, I am not going to disagree with you. There is clearly a disconnect when you've got three ministers out of 23 who have small business experience. And even today I was talking with a cafe owner and they had, he was talking about the surcharge and the fact that they had decided that they would just have to manage it and put up prices because the government's idea is that they could just, you know, cover the surcharge. He said they've worked out it's $ 60, 000 a year just for the surcharge. That's one of their waitstaff they can't employ. And this is the kind of disconnect, as you rightly say, that our ministers have and the Treasurer has between the real world and those who are actually doing it tough on the line, managing all of the red tape, managing fuel costs going up and paying fuel surcharges so that what they're buying into the business is also costing them so dearly that they're having to just put up their prices.
00:13:16
Speaker 2: I tell you what, Anne, if you want to have your ear chewed off for 15 minutes, just do as I did. And I went into my local cafe and I met the owner inadvertently.
00:13:26
Speaker 3: And I told him I worked for News 24.
00:13:27
Speaker 2: Well, for the next 15 minutes, I sat there waiting for my coffee while he told me all of his woes. And I'm not calling him a whinger. He was justified in everything he was saying. But I tell you what, he could not unload enough to me how angry he is at this government. And then a few days later, I went to a different cafe, exactly the same experience.
00:13:48
Speaker 3: Michael.
00:13:49
Speaker 2: Has it always been the case that politicians lack real world experience or is this sort of a new problem unique to our generation?
00:13:58
Speaker 5: It's got much worse, James. Paul Keating ran a rock band. Barry Cohen ran a menswear shop. I ran my late mother's art gallery for a little while. But the real point is people lack wider world experience. What people are getting at is, you know, they don't have experience of real life. This caucus is the most ministerial staffers and electoral staffers that have ever been, and not coincidentally, they're the most gormless. Power shifts like the change in the rules for electing the Prime Minister, the Rudd rules, and the secret power grab of Albo and Andrews during COVID to control all pre-selections have meant that this is a Labor caucus that won't challenge Prime Minister or the Treasurer when they make clearly ridiculous decisions, which they would hear, James, when they go down to the coffee shop just like you.
00:14:59
Speaker 2: And you're not that long in politics. Just remind me how long ago you were selected?
00:15:06
Speaker 4: This is my eighth year, 2019.
00:15:07
Speaker 3: Okay, so eight years.
00:15:09
Speaker 2: So you went into politics when you were about 19 years old. I was talking to Barnaby Joyce one day and my son was with me and I had to leave and so my son was on his own with Barnaby Joyce for about 20 minutes. I must say I came back into the room after 20 minutes and before I even got to the room I could hear the howls of laughter.
00:15:28
Speaker 3: Barnaby was entertaining my son.
00:15:30
Speaker 2: With all sorts of stories but On the way home, I said to my son, what did Barnaby Joyce talk to you about? And he said, well, Dad, one of the things he told me is if I ever wanted to go into politics, he told me get a real job first and then after you've done a real job, go into politics. I think that's probably pretty good advice. And One Nation are certainly, I'm not expecting you to stand up for One Nation here, by the way, but that's been one of the selling points that One Nation have tried to convince people to vote for them on, isn't it? That, well, look, our candidates might not have political experience, but that might be a good thing. And they've got a bit of a point there.
00:16:08
Speaker 1: Ah, 100%.
00:16:10
Speaker 4: Yes, you're right. I didn't come in at 19. Sorry to burst that bubble. But I certainly have a lot of life experience prior. And it is so valuable. Sometimes I look at the very young ones who are in there and I think, What experience have they got of the real world? Like, honestly, it just, it makes so much difference to your character, to your ability to face and hear what people have to say without becoming defensive, but actually, you know, engaging with people and wanting to help them. This is our job. I've said it to you before, James, this is our job. to hear what people have to say and advocate, to think about strategically how we're going to make life better.
00:16:55
Speaker 2: Well, the Herald Sun is reporting this morning that the Labor Party in Victoria looks increasingly likely to finish third in the state election, behind One Nation. So it's possible Victoria will end up with a Liberal government, One Nation as the official opposition, and the Labor Party hanging around the margins. Now, as I said in the introduction, this report comes as the Victorian Liberals insist One Nation leader Warren Pickering should not be allowed to participate in this week's leaders' debate. If I could just go back to you, Anne, first. Is Jess Wilson right to insist Warren Pickering should not be part of the debate?
00:17:28
Speaker 4: Look, I think the issue here is people get caught up in the polls and they see the orange wave coming through and that therefore means power.
00:17:36
Speaker 1: Well, no, it doesn't.
00:17:38
Speaker 4: In Victoria, One Nation have one seat, one seat. We have a Labor Party in power, 69 seats, and the coalition in power, forgive me, I'm not in the state government, I believe it's around 44 seats. I'm happy to be corrected. And the Greens have six. If you're going to go by the potential for leadership, it really has to be on the current government. And the Coalition and Labor are the foes, if you like, those who should be facing off against one another. One nation should not just be getting a free pass to pretend that they are equal to when they have not yet won seats.
00:18:20
Speaker 3: What do you think, Michael? Do you take the same view?
00:18:23
Speaker 5: No, I think Pickering should be given a Guernsey. I think they're not doing as well here in Victoria One Nation, although Pickering is an admirable character. He was in the Army like my friend Mike Kelly. I was in the Army Reserve. That wider experience we were talking about before, all does people well. So I think they'll still get the Liberals elected with their preferences and And I would be surprised if Labor doesn't end up the opposition, despite that one poll. But I do think they should be given the ability to speak up. The problem is, James, I'm not convinced that Labor will lose so catastrophically. I think they'll lose a lot of seats and end up relying on the Green political party, which you've seen so odiously described in the media this last few days as a partner in a future Victorian socialist left-stroke Greens government.
00:19:22
Speaker 2: Just what Victoria needs. You guys are both in Victoria.
00:19:26
Speaker 1: It can get worse, James.
00:19:27
Speaker 3: I've got to go to a break, but let me make both of you this offer. If you need to come up and stay at.
00:19:31
Speaker 2: Our place for a bit just to get away, if that happens, both of you are always welcome at our place any time you like.
00:19:38
Speaker 3: Thanks so much for joining me. I'm going to go to a break when we come back. Elon Musk invents the flying car. And what do you reckon the left do? They go nuts. I'll talk about that next.
00:19:53
Speaker 2: While some immigrants are shouting death to America and trying to turn the USA into something resembling the third world from which they've come, another immigrant is turning our childhood dreams of flying cars into a reality. Did you see Elon Musk showing off his flying car at the weekend?
00:20:08
Speaker 3: It was incredible.
00:20:09
Speaker 2: It was the stuff of dreams. I mean, I remember as a kid imagining that cars might one day fly.
00:20:16
Speaker 3: What's happening?
00:20:19
Speaker 6: It's fantastic.
00:20:23
Speaker 5: You're a genius.
00:20:26
Speaker 3: You're a genius.
00:20:27
Speaker 2: You know what's funny about that scene from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang? Elon Musk has invented the flying car and rather than being fawned over as a genius, many people are criticising him for the invention.
00:20:40
Speaker 7: A trillionaire builds a flying car that flips and And we're still broke.
00:20:46
Speaker 3: And there's still people that can't get food in the United States.
00:20:53
Speaker 2: Oh, get to more of those killjoys in a moment. And I assure you, there's plenty more. But back to our childhoods.
00:20:59
Speaker 3: Remember this? Well, what about this one?
00:21:25
Speaker 2: Ah, Chitty Chitty, Bang Bang, The Jetsons, The Professors, DeLorean. It was all the stuff of science fiction. Of course, there were always people who thought flying cars were ridiculous. These are presumably the same people who would have told you the Wright Brothers should stop messing around and buy a bicycle. This was about as close as I ever thought we'd get to an actual flying car.
00:21:53
Speaker 3: Ah, the Dukes of Hazzard. That was a good TV show.
00:21:56
Speaker 2: And then along came a South African immigrant who dreamed of flying cars and wasn't put off by the scepticism of even well-meaning friends. This is Elon Musk talking to Joe Rogan back in 2018. We're going to put rocket thrusters on it.
00:22:11
Speaker 1: For real?
00:22:11
Speaker 8: Yes.
00:22:11
Speaker 1: What are they going to burn? Nothing. Ultra-high pressure compressed air.
00:22:17
Speaker 4: Whoa.
00:22:18
Speaker 1: Just air? Cold gas thrusters.
00:22:20
Speaker 6: Do you have to have air tanks or are they just sucking the air out?
00:22:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an electric pump.
00:22:25
Speaker 2: Whoa.
00:22:25
Speaker 1: Pump it up to like 10,000 PSI.
00:22:27
Speaker 3: And how fast are we talking?
00:22:29
Speaker 9: Zero to 60.
00:22:29
Speaker 1: How fast do you want to go?
00:22:31
Speaker 3: How fast could it go? How fast do you want to go? I love his confidence.
00:22:35
Speaker 2: Let's just say no one's laughing now.
00:22:39
Speaker 10: Overnight, Tesla unveiling a car that would be unlike anything else on the road or in the air. Elon Musk demonstrating the new Tesla Roadster at a SpaceX rocket test site in Texas. He says it flies on compressed air, the same technology that steers rockets. And it's got rocket-like speed, too. Tesla showing off the car's ability to go from zero to 60 in just one second. And for grip at high speed, Tesla claims fans in the bottom of the car can suck it to the pavement, allowing it to drive upside down.
00:23:25
Speaker 3: It's incredible.
00:23:26
Speaker 2: It's like Hot Wheels when I was a kid, except it's real. Now, you might imagine that the unveiling of a flying car would be one of those rare moments when humanity could put aside its petty squabbles, look at something genuinely amazing.
00:23:38
Speaker 3: And say as a collective... Wow.
00:23:43
Speaker 2: Well, you'd be wrong because the internet has discovered that even the invention of a flying car can be turned into an opportunity to complain about capitalism and climate change and the fact that somebody somewhere is enjoying himself. Have a look at these responses. Doing this instead of solving world hunger, wrote one person.
00:24:02
Speaker 3: Where are our priorities? Quite right.
00:24:06
Speaker 2: Why are we wasting time inventing extraordinary things when there's still problems in the world? We should probably have a word with the people who invented the light bulb. I mean, they could have been solving world hunger instead of helping us to see our dinner.
00:24:17
Speaker 3: Or what about this?
00:24:19
Speaker 2: The world is dying from climate change and you guys are celebrating a falling car. I really can't take this anymore. A falling car. That's the technical assessment from the Department of Joyless Things. Have a look at this response to Musk's flying car. People literally just want to be able to afford to eat and heat their homes.
00:24:40
Speaker 3: Nobody wants this. Beg to differ, I want it.
00:24:45
Speaker 2: I would love it, but apparently I'm not allowed to have or even want a flying car until every person on Earth has a full stomach, a comfortable house and a taxpayer-funded university degree. I honestly wasn't aware that human progress operated on a sort of a queue system. Nobody gets to invent anything until the entire planet's been issued a satisfactory standard of living notice.
00:25:07
Speaker 3: Here's another Ebenezer Scrooge. He wrote.
00:25:10
Speaker 2: I don't want flying cars. I want clean water. I want stable climate. I want bees to survive.
00:25:17
Speaker 1: Honey.
00:25:18
Speaker 2: Human civilisation has managed to pursue more than one thing at a time for quite a while now. We can work on clean water and invent flying cars. We can try to improve the climate and make technological breakthroughs. We can even worry about the bees while admiring an extraordinary feat of engineering. It's not a binary choice between saving the planet and having something fun to look forward to. Unless, of course, you're one of those people who regards joy as suspiciously a capitalistic emotion. You have to wonder what the naysayers would have thought if just five years ago this had happened, you know, before they started applying the political lens to Elon and his companies, because it seems to me once you've decided a man is the villain of your preferred political narrative, even his greatest achievements are just used as evidence against him. Have a listen as a classic example of this attitude towards, listen rather to the dismissive smugness on the BBC as they report the The world's first flying car.
00:26:19
Speaker 7: So might we see it on the roads any time soon?
00:26:22
Speaker 3: Unlikely.
00:26:22
Speaker 7: It hasn't been approved for use on public highways and that can take years.
00:26:28
Speaker 3: What is wrong with these people?
00:26:30
Speaker 2: In a world of doom and gloom, could we not just for a moment put aside our cynicism, our political differences and look at a flying car and all agree that?
00:26:40
Speaker 3: That is amazing.
00:26:42
Speaker 2: This guy captures my reaction to Elon Musk's flying Tesla, minus the language, of course.
00:26:50
Speaker 1: What?
00:26:50
Speaker 9: What?
00:26:51
Speaker 11: What the f * * *?
00:26:54
Speaker 3: What the f * * * in the Red Bull?
00:26:56
Speaker 1: F * * *, that's a Red Bull trick!
00:27:01
Speaker 5: What the.
00:27:03
Speaker 8: F * * *?
00:27:05
Speaker 3: Let me ask you a question.
00:27:06
Speaker 2: Who would you rather have dinner with, that bloke or the BBC reporter? I know who I'd rather hang out with. Now, within hours, people around the world started coming up with applications for the flying car. I've got to share some of these with you because they're just too good for you not to see. Criminals are going to love the flying car.
00:27:24
Speaker 1: Repeat, here, body, right to a centre.
00:27:25
Speaker 9: I'll cross there in a second.
00:27:26
Speaker 3: Again, take it to make that.
00:27:43
Speaker 2: And I dare say a few wives will find a flying car quite handy. Now that Musk has invented the flying car, remind me never to book a window seat ever again. Elon Musk's flying Tesla is already a hit in Mexico where everyone wants to get hold of one. And it's not just the Mexicans. Victorians will find plenty of use for the flying car, I'm sure.
00:28:26
Speaker 3: Yo, yo, did you see that?
00:28:29
Speaker 2: Tesla drivers in India, however, are a little more circumspect. Not that we in the West can laugh. Road signs are obviously going to need to be rethought. They haven't yet got a release date, let alone a price for the flying Tesla at this stage. So while I absolutely love it, it's too early to say whether or not I'd get one. I mean, I'd be great to have one, but I do struggle with, you know, all the beeps and alerts and alarms and buttons in my current vehicle without the complication of more buttons to go flying. Let's face it, if you get the flying Tesla and just make one error in pushing the buttons, catastrophe.
00:29:33
Speaker 6: Help!
00:29:34
Speaker 3: Help!
00:29:32
Speaker 2: Go!
00:29:33
Speaker 5: Go!
00:29:33
Speaker 2: Go!
00:29:40
Speaker 3: That, I'm afraid, would probably be me.
00:29:42
Speaker 2: Leaving all the jokes aside, you and I experienced history this weekend. We were the generation alive when the first ever flying car was demonstrated. Was it Charles Dickens who said it was the best of times and the worst of times? That's the age in which you and I live. There's a lot of doom and gloom. There's more than.
00:30:00
Speaker 3: Enough to be depressed about.
00:30:01
Speaker 2: And there are people who seem determined to make sure we never forget any of the problems. But every now and then, something happens that reminds us human beings are capable of extraordinary things. We take an idea that seems absurd, a dream that looks impossible, and through ingenuity, persistence, and a refusal to accept the limits of the present, we bring it into the real world. That's how progress happens, not by insisting everything is terrible, not by demanding that every new invention first satisfy the approval of the political class, and certainly not by treating every achievement as an opportunity to rehearse our grievances. Human beings are capable of amazing things. We should be able to celebrate that. without first checking whether the person responsible for the amazing thing votes the right way. So well done, Elon Musk, a flying car, absolutely incredible. And as for the doubters and the cynics, well, the flying car might come in handy for dealing with them too.
00:31:02
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:31:03
Speaker 10: What?
00:31:03
Speaker 7: Come on.
00:31:04
Speaker 5: Yeah.
00:31:05
Speaker 10: What?
00:31:06
Speaker 3: Come on, come on, come on.
00:31:10
Speaker 10: Come on, come on.
00:31:14
Speaker 3: Oh.
00:31:16
Speaker 9: Oh.
00:31:16
Speaker 1: Because I wasn't cool enough straight down.
00:31:41
Speaker 3: There you go.
00:31:42
Speaker 2: All right, after the break, major problems in the UK. A top government adviser's wife is accused of supporting a terror group. A UK citizen is investigated by police for the crime of liking Israel too much. And wait until you hear what the co-leader of the Scottish Greens says when she's asked about the existence of Israel.
00:32:00
Speaker 3: All of that with Tom Slater after this.
00:32:07
Speaker 2: Well, if you think the West is struggling to put the pro-Palestine genie back in the bottle, let me take you to Britain, where the genie appears to have acquired a lawyer, a publishing deal and possibly a rather interesting marriage. The Metropolitan Police are trying to work out whether or not they should charge the wife of Britain's national security adviser for supporting a terror organisation. Sarah Helm is married to Jonathan Powell, a former diplomat who now serves as Andy Burnham's national security adviser. Now, she wrote on X, God help us authors who support Palestine and Palestine actions. The tweet was posted in support of an Irish author who stopped selling books in Britain after admitting the proceeds would go towards Palestine Action, which the British government has prescribed as a terror organisation. Now, while the tweet didn't directly say that she supports Palestine action, it's pretty hard not to interpret it as support for the group. And as I said, her husband is Britain's chief negotiator with Israel. Joining me now is Spiked Online editor Tom Slater. Tom, should we really be surprised by this? Anti-Israel views are now the norm among the ruling class.
00:33:14
Speaker 3: In the UK.
00:33:16
Speaker 1: No, absolutely. This is just another reminder of it. The fact that you've got someone who is.
00:33:21
Speaker 12: Such a part of the British establishment, married into the British establishment, who is openly expressing these views is very telling, is very damning. It makes it very difficult for Jonathan Powell, of course, who the latest is that he's considering resignation, citing exhaustion with the job. I dare say it might have been this particular scandal, which has hastened and sharpened that exhaustion.
00:33:40
Speaker 1: We wait to see what happens there.
00:33:41
Speaker 12: The difficulty with all of this is, is Palestine Action were prescribed by the Labour government. They were branded a terror group, as you say, which obviously makes expressing support for a criminal offence under the Terrorism Act in this country. The problem therein, and this is something that the government never properly reckoned with, is that Palestine Action does have a lot of supporters.
00:33:58
Speaker 1: It's not an Islamist group.
00:33:59
Speaker 12: It's not a terrorist group in the sense that it targets civilians, it engages in vandalism against RAF bases and things of this nature. I've also attacked police officers in the course of doing that.
00:34:10
Speaker 1: But it always.
00:34:11
Speaker 12: Provided a bit of a problem for free speech, to be perfectly frank, not just when it comes to this particular case, but there's been thousands of arrests of people just for holding up placards supporting Palestine Action. So I think that there is actually a free speech issue here as much as anything else, but there is also just how embarrassing it is that a government that still likes to claim, and no one really believes them, that they're not set against the state of Israel, they're just concerned about the Palestinians, things like this confirm our suspicions that that is definitely not the case.
00:34:39
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
00:34:39
Speaker 2: Well, you mentioned Palestine Action was listed as a terrorist group after they attacked British Defence Force installations. Now there's a new pro-Palestine group targeting not Defence Force installations but the homes of British people who work for defence firms in the UK. What can you tell us about this group?
00:34:57
Speaker 12: This is a really sinister development. It's calling itself The List, which, again, has pretty dark undertones, doesn't it? There have been acts of vandalism on the homes of people who work for defence companies, as you say. Also, they then will post videos on social media, essentially saying, quit your jobs or this is going to happen to you. And just that really abhorrent shift from targeting military installations or targeting defence companies itself, which is still criminal and should be treated very seriously, of course, but to just the.
00:35:25
Speaker 1: People who work there.
00:35:26
Speaker 12: I mean, this shows that the sheer intolerance, the sort of derangement of the pro-Palestine set, the radicalisation of people who a few years ago might have just been on a, trans pride march are now suddenly you know taking matters into their own hands and menacing innocent workers i think it shows just to the point you made at the top of this segment that that kind of pro-palestine movement that palestinianism it has gone completely out of control in this country and you end up with people who think they're on the right side of history telling a bloke who just you know pushes paper at a defense firm that he might be next how the hell we got.
00:36:01
Speaker 2: Into this position i don't know I got bad news for you, Tom. It's about to get worse because I want to talk to you about police rocking up to the house of a British woman.
00:36:10
Speaker 3: The police were concerned that she was too pro-Israel.
00:36:14
Speaker 2: Holly Passmore was visited by the cops at the recommendation of the UK's counter-extremism program. A police intelligence report seen by The Telegraph reveals that the referral said she over-identified with the conflict between Israel and Palestine and was, quote, supportive of Israel to the point that she travelled to Israel. I just find this extraordinary. But this is what's happening in the UK.
00:36:43
Speaker 1: This is demented.
00:36:44
Speaker 12: I mean, you're essentially treating people, unfortunately, vanishingly few people in this country, it sometimes feels.
00:36:49
Speaker 1: Like, who are sympathetic.
00:36:50
Speaker 12: to the Jewish state, to the state of Israel, who are essentially being treated almost as like a fifth column, that if you happen to support the only democracy in the Middle East, if you happen to side with them in their fight against Islamist terrorists, rather than said Islamist terrorists, that you're the.
00:37:04
Speaker 1: One who should garner suspicion is absurd.
00:37:08
Speaker 12: And it's also absurd because of the fact that the PREVENT programme is supposed to get on top of the potential extremism and terror threats in this country. You don't need any prizes for guessing that the overwhelming majority of that threat comes from Islamist extremism. It does not come from particularly energetic supporters of the Zionist project.
00:37:26
Speaker 1: So to see that the police are wasting their.
00:37:28
Speaker 12: Time talking to someone and visiting someone, which is going to put the wind up anyone if you get a knock from the police, even if it is a kind of strange authoritarian courtesy call, as it seems to have been in this case, just shows the war priorities of this government. We're menaced by Islamist extremism, and yet we've now rebranded essentially mainstream pro-Israel, in some cases just centre-right views, as a form of radicalisation that the state has to concern itself with.
00:37:55
Speaker 1: It's totally nuts.
00:37:56
Speaker 2: Tom, did you say an authoritarian curtsy? That's a phrase I've not heard before, but I like that.
00:38:03
Speaker 1: A courtesy call is what was asked. Oh, a courtesy call. Authoritarian curtsy is how that would work. I don't know. They would probably be in some sort of uniform, I suppose.
00:38:11
Speaker 3: I misheard, but I still like it. It's a good expression. I'm going to use that.
00:38:14
Speaker 2: Scottish Greens co-leader Gillian Mackay was asked at the weekend whether or not Israel had a right to exist. This is the co-leader of the Scottish Greens.
00:38:23
Speaker 3: Have a listen to this.
00:38:25
Speaker 6: Can I ask you a question Gillian? Does Israel have the right to exist?
00:38:41
Speaker 3: It's a difficult one. It's evidently very difficult. She could barely speak.
00:38:49
Speaker 2: The reporter then asked if Israel should have a right to exist in, you know, Israel, where it's existed for thousands of years.
00:38:57
Speaker 6: They absolutely should have a right to exist.
00:39:01
Speaker 1: To a homeland in the Middle.
00:39:07
Speaker 6: East.
00:39:09
Speaker 9: I think they absolutely should have the right to have.
00:39:15
Speaker 3: Somewhere to... somewhere to be and to be able to live in peace.
00:39:19
Speaker 2: So the Jews absolutely have a right to live somewhere, just not in Israel. Tom, this demonstrates I suppose what we've been talking about doesn't it? That this anti-Israel attitude is now right through the establishment in the UK and in much of Europe now.
00:39:40
Speaker 1: No, it certainly is.
00:39:41
Speaker 12: And the fact that you have so many politicians now who either struggle to answer the question, does Israel have a right to exist? Or in some cases would happily say, that it doesn't, is the fundamental double standard where Israel and the Jewish state is concerned. The fact that this is the only nation on earth who is not given the right to self-determination, the fact that no one would ever expect themselves to be asked, nor less to struggle to answer the question, does Turkey have a right to exist? Does Pakistan have a right to exist?
00:40:09
Speaker 1: I think is really, really telling.
00:40:11
Speaker 12: And isn't it interesting that it's the world's only Jewish state for whom that privilege is not afforded to? The way in which he was stumbling there, I think, is also quite telling, because I think there's a lot of wings of progressive politics who have taken on a kind of anti-Israel stance without ever properly thinking through the consequences of it. The fact that they are effectively endorsing an anti-Semitic double standard when they fail to say that Israel doesn't have a right to exist. They almost haven't thought about it until about five minutes ago when this became such a totalising issue.
00:40:40
Speaker 1: For people on the supposedly progressive left.
00:40:43
Speaker 12: It's fascinating how quickly that orthodoxy has taken hold amongst people who, if we're being honest, probably didn't spend that much time thinking about this issue until October the 7th. And isn't it depressing that their response to October the 7th was, oh, this state that is under attack probably deserves our support is to side with its attackers.
00:41:00
Speaker 1: But yeah, really telling interview that.
00:41:02
Speaker 3: I got to go to a break, Tom.
00:41:03
Speaker 2: I'd love to spend hours talking to you about this, but I just wonder if these, they've not put much thought into the Israel question, that's for sure. I wonder if they've thought, put much thought into the fact that as they denounce Israel, this is bound to blow back on their own countries. We're starting to see all sorts of unrest throughout Europe and none of this pretends anything good for the future.
00:41:25
Speaker 3: I appreciate you joining me tonight. Thanks so much.
00:41:27
Speaker 2: It's always a delight to catch up. All right, stick around after the break. Donald Trump sacks his White House press secretary just five days after she started in the job. And Kamala Harris explains why she has such a weird laugh. My panel will join me after this. Well, they do say records are meant to be broken and nobody's happy about the sacking of White House press secretary Katie Zachariah.
00:41:53
Speaker 3: Than Anthony Scaramucci.
00:41:55
Speaker 2: Scaramucci was sacked after just 11 days in the job during the first Trump administration, a tenure so brief it barely qualified as employment. But Zachariah's removal after just five days makes Scaramucci look like a seasoned veteran. At this rate, the next press secretary will be handed a security pass and a farewell card all at the same time. Scaramucci, the undisputed world champion of short White House careers, offered his successor some consolation, writing, speaking as the world's leading expert on short White House tenures, turn off the news and go enjoy your family. In time, you'll realise that the universe did you a major favour. Here's what Trump had to say just before he let Katie Zachariah go.
00:42:38
Speaker 12: But it's not an easy job, and I think she was really treated very.
00:42:42
Speaker 8: Unfairly, so I'll speak to her about it.
00:42:44
Speaker 7: I told her, I think you're better off being happy, and I'm not sure you can ever be happy in this job.
00:42:49
Speaker 10: There's nothing easy about this job.
00:42:52
Speaker 2: Joining me now is my panel, former Liberal Senator, now One Nation member, Holly Hughes, and Liberal councillor at Waverley Council, Michelle Stevenson. I'll start with you, Holly. Right decision of Trump to give her the flick?
00:43:06
Speaker 7: Oh, I mean, look, they were never going to get Caroline Leavitt Mark II straight off the bat. I think she had a rough couple of days starting in the job. I mean, who hasn't started a new job and taken a little bit of time to get into it? The problem is you are on the world stage doing this. So, Look, I feel sorry for her. And I think Scaramucci's advice of turn the TV off, enjoy your family and the universe has done you a favour is probably the nicest piece of advice she's going to get and probably what she should do, because political life, public life can be bloody awful. And, you know, she probably doesn't deserve the scorn she's going to get. And Trump's not wrong. You know, you've got to be happy and Pretty sure that job doesn't make anybody happy, unless you're CJ in the West Wing, which was just a Democrat fantasy.
00:44:00
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, you're both in the public view and in public jobs, so you'd both know better than most what it's like. Before I go to you, Michelle, I've got to say, this latest press secretary now gone certainly wasn't as bad as some of Biden's representatives. Do you remember Corrine Jean-Pierre? Just as a reminder, this was her first day on the job.
00:44:21
Speaker 3: Have a look.
00:44:22
Speaker 8: Just want to say a few words about how honored I am to be here with all of you today in this role, in this room, standing behind this podium. I am obviously acutely aware that my presence at this podium represents a few firsts. I am a black gay immigrant woman, the first of all three of those to hold this position.
00:44:46
Speaker 2: Michelle, Katie Zachariah wasn't that bad, actually.
00:44:50
Speaker 3: No, I mean, like, why.
00:44:51
Speaker 11: Did she have to mention that she's a black, gay, immigrant woman? I mean, it has nothing to do with the job.
00:44:57
Speaker 3: She mentioned that because that's all she had going for it.
00:45:00
Speaker 11: But it had nothing to do with the job, and this is, like, part of the problem. Just get up there and do the job. You are hired to do something specifically, and it has nothing to do with your sexual persuasion, what you look like or where you were born. But I do have to say... Jen Psaki was one of my favourites. I think she did a really, really good job. But it is a tough gig and I do get it. But clearly, the one who just got let go was not up to the task.
00:45:24
Speaker 3: She wasn't even close to being up to the task.
00:45:27
Speaker 11: I mean, was there even a screen test involved? Did anyone ask her if she knew how to speak into a microphone? Like, did anyone ask her a question? It just seems like it's indicative of what is happening in Trump land at the moment. The wheels are starting to fall off.
00:45:40
Speaker 3: A little bit. Oh, you are a tough marker.
00:45:44
Speaker 12: That's harsh.
00:45:45
Speaker 3: That's very harsh. Well, all right, since you're so down, Michelle, on the Trump.
00:45:49
Speaker 2: Administration, the wheels are falling off, let's talk about Kamala Harris because.
00:45:53
Speaker 3: I'll tell you what, if the wheels are falling off.
00:45:56
Speaker 2: The Trump administration, the whole car was exploding under Biden. During the week, Kamala was asked about her laugh, which has become quite famous as well as an object of ridicule. Have a listen to how she explains her laugh. shall we say, peculiar laugh?
00:46:12
Speaker 9: I'm aware of whatever the memes are about my laugh. Well, look, I was raised in a family that included very powerful women who laughed from their bellies. And powerful, I mean, they were powerful in their space. They were powerful in their family, in their community, not necessarily titles and money. But you understand my point? Absolutely. And would sit around the kitchen table with their coffee, laughing loud laughs.
00:46:51
Speaker 3: Dear Lord, did we really need all that? You've got a funny laugh. It's a bit quirky. I get it that people think it's funny. Move on. But Holly, I come from a line of powerful women. What the heck?
00:47:04
Speaker 7: Can I tell you though sometimes because, you know, when you're on live TV, live radio stuff, you get a bit caught up in the moment sometimes and you think, I'm not actually sure what I said. So I will admit sometimes I watch it back just to kind of go, did I step over a line somewhere there? But I hear my laugh sometimes and I think, really, do I laugh like that? I think it's hard, you know, as a woman that you get criticised for everything you do. however you laugh will be perceived as a giggly girl or somehow not feminine enough or whatever. But seriously, this is a woman who wants to be President of the United States and she is just an idiot.
00:47:45
Speaker 3: Forget how she laughs.
00:47:47
Speaker 7: She is an idiot. If she was super smart, coming out with great policy ideas, with incredible vision for how America is going to be the leaders of the free world and contribute to to democracy and Western civilization. Laugh however you want, my love. But the fact that that's all we've got to talk about just shows she's not up to this job, any job. But I do like that she talked about her family didn't have titles and money because she certainly made sure She's had plenty of those.
00:48:20
Speaker 3: She sure did.
00:48:21
Speaker 2: Michelle, again, I mean, why can't she just answer simply? You've got a funny laugh.
00:48:26
Speaker 3: I know. Just say that.
00:48:28
Speaker 1: I know.
00:48:28
Speaker 3: I don't get it. She's like a walking parody.
00:48:30
Speaker 11: Like everything she does, I feel like we're one step away from Saturday Night Live.
00:48:34
Speaker 3: Like I really don't understand.
00:48:36
Speaker 11: And also she could have just said, yeah, I laugh weird.
00:48:39
Speaker 3: I get it.
00:48:40
Speaker 11: But instead we had to have Liz's whole diatribe about powerful, taking up space.
00:48:45
Speaker 3: This is who I am. Like, it's just too much. Just shut up.
00:48:49
Speaker 1: Just shut up.
00:48:50
Speaker 3: I absolutely agree.
00:48:52
Speaker 2: So, Michelle, earlier you talked about the wheels falling off the Trump administration.
00:48:55
Speaker 3: Oh, I offended you, didn't I? No, you didn't offend me. I'm unoffendable. But I just think before you complain about Trump, just remember what he replaced. I'm agnostic.
00:49:06
Speaker 11: I think both sides can take the heat.
00:49:09
Speaker 3: I've got to go, ladies. A delight to chat. Thanks so much. And thanks to you at home for your company. Stick around. Up next, hosting Paul Murray Live is my good friend, Caleb Bond.
Speaker 1: This is the Macpherson Angle.
00:00:03
Speaker 2: Well, good evening and welcome to the program. Thanks for joining me on the Macpherson Angle. Here's what's coming up tonight. The Labour Party faces a wipeout in Victoria with One Nation on track to become the official opposition, which is quite incredible because right now no one's even sure the One Nation leader will be allowed to participate in this week's leaders debate. the wife of the adviser on national security to the British prime minister, is under investigation over alleged support for a terrorist organisation. And members of the British public are now being interviewed by police for liking Israel too much. I'll talk to Tom Slater about those crazy developments. And Elon Musk invents the world's first ever flying car. But do you think people can be happy about it? When everything is political, nothing is enjoyable. But I am sure going to enjoy Elon's flying car. I'll show you some incredible uses for a flying car a little later in the program. But first, what would happen if you took mass migration, multiculturalism.
00:01:04
Speaker 3: Soft on crime policies.
00:01:06
Speaker 2: and an education system that teaches people to resent their own country's history and throw the lot into an ideological blender.
00:01:13
Speaker 3: What would happen?
00:01:15
Speaker 2: It's an important question because Australia's political class is busy assembling precisely that recipe, apparently convinced that if you mix enough incompatible ingredients together.
00:01:25
Speaker 3: You get social cohesion.
00:01:27
Speaker 2: Or perhaps they think reality is something that happens to other people. Either way, it's worth looking at where this experiment might end up. And the answer after this weekend, well, it's pretty clear to see. Now, I know what you're thinking. You're thinking, is that Melbourne?
00:01:58
Speaker 3: Well, no, not yet. This weekend, it's France.
00:02:02
Speaker 2: That vision posted online by Reuters captured some of the many violent protests right across France. Widespread arson, vandalism, pillaging, 150 police injured, more than 1,200 arrests. All the usual symptoms of a society discovering that good intentions are not, in fact, a substitute for functioning institutions. The French Prime Minister released a statement saying, it's time to choose your side, whether that of the Republic or that of the rioters. Now, you can see the problem with that statement, right? Apparently, you've got to wait until the country is on fire before deciding whether you're on the side of civilisation or the people setting fire to it. For years, the French have been sold the same collection of fashionable delusions now being marketed to Australians. Borders are mean. Western culture is oppressive. Diversity, that's a strength. Criminals are just misunderstood victims awaiting rehabilitation. Radicalismists, they're really just lonely people in need of a hug and a funded community outreach program which Labour are never short of supplying. And anyone who points out that, you know, some cultures are more compatible with a free society than others is immediately informed that the real problem is their attitude. And the sermon continues until reality interrupts. And reality, unlike a university lecturer, is not obliged to give you a passing grade for your good intentions. Which brings us to one of the most heartbreaking images from the weekend. Here's a young white French woman pleading with the mob not to ransack her family's shop. She begs them to stop, and perhaps because she's been assured all her life that diversity is a strength, she keeps asking the obvious question.
00:03:45
Speaker 3: Why? Why?
00:03:46
Speaker 2: And then, seemingly unable to comprehend what's happening, she tells the mob, but this is not the cause. I'm not sure I've seen a better metaphor for the West than what happened to that woman. Standing in front of a mob, begging them not to destroy the business her family presumably worked hard to build.
00:04:04
Speaker 3: Why are you doing this? She asks them. I thought you wanted what we wanted.
00:04:09
Speaker 2: It's the question Western civilisation keeps asking its own demolition crew. We were told that mass migration would enrich us, that multiculturalism would unite us, that importing people from societies with radically different values would somehow produce a stronger, more cohesive society. And whenever anyone asked how this was supposed to work, they were accused of being divisive. Now, when the predictable consequences arrive, we're told the answer is more integration programs, more funding, more dialogue and more carefully worded statements about how violence doesn't represent the overwhelming majority. And maybe it doesn't. But the woman standing in front of the mob is still the one who has to clean up the mess. Diversity is our strength.
00:04:51
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure.
00:04:52
Speaker 2: Tell that to the insurance company. I'm not sure if this is a better metaphor, but it's certainly worth considering. The mob cheered as the 143-year-old Hotel De Ville collapsed in a blaze of fire.
00:05:05
Speaker 3: Take a look.
00:05:25
Speaker 2: A century-old building incinerated by people who could never have built it, and they cheered.
00:05:30
Speaker 3: For what?
00:05:31
Speaker 2: And yet that's the Western world right now, mobs whose greatest achievement is a, I don't know, a degree in gender studies, burning down a civilization they could never have built. Heck, they don't even understand their own civilization. They want the West's prosperity without its principles, the West's freedoms without its responsibilities, and the West's institutions without the cultural inheritance that made those institutions possible. There's one more striking image from the weekend's riots. Not police cars pelted with rocks, not department stores being looted by migrant gangs, not thousands of people protesting in the streets beneath flags waved in support of Islamic terrorists. No, this last bit of vision I want to show you is from Friday night. While all of that and worse was happening, here's the French president, Emmanuel Macron.
00:06:22
Speaker 4: MUSIC PLAYS.
00:06:30
Speaker 2: Yep, while the country was being burned to the ground, the leader of the country was at a Celine Dion concert. There's something almost Shakespearean about that. The kingdom is in flames, the streets are in revolt, the institutions are under attack and the nation's leadership is enjoying a night at a concert. The image is devastating because it captures something larger than an evening scheduling decision. It captures the distance between the political class and the consequences of the politicians' decisions. For years, Western leaders have treated the concerns of ordinary people about immigration, crime, assimilation, national identity as regrettable inconveniences. People who raised those concerns were lectured about tolerance, scolded for their ignorance and assured that everything was under control. Now the streets are telling a rather different story. And while citizens are left to wonder whether their businesses will survive the night, their leaders are busy demonstrating that the show must go on.
00:07:30
Speaker 3: Perhaps that's the real tragedy of the modern West.
00:07:33
Speaker 2: Not simply that we've imported problems we're unwilling to confront. Not simply that we've allowed our institutions to weaken while insisting that everything is actually getting better. Maybe the real tragedy is that the ruling class have become so invested in their own narrative that that they can barely recognise the disaster unfolding right outside the concert hall. Australia should pay attention. We're not Europe and we're certainly not France. Our circumstances are different and of course the future isn't predetermined but the ingredients being assembled here are fairly familiar enough. Mass migration without sufficient attention to assimilation, multiculturalism treated as an unquestionable good, an increasingly indulgent attitude towards crime, and an education system that too often teaches young Australians to regard their own inheritance with suspicion. None of this makes riots inevitable, but neither does repeating the word diversity make social cohesion inevitable. A country's not held together by slogans. It's held together by shared loyalties, common expectations, enforceable laws, and a willingness to defend the civilization that makes peaceful coexistence possible. Ignore those things long enough, and eventually the people who built the house will find themselves standing outside it asking the mob, why are you smashing the windows? Speaking of the disconnect between our political class and the, I don't know, the real world, analysis of Labor's federal cabinet by the Daily Telegraph has revealed only three government ministers have small business experience.
00:09:20
Speaker 3: I know, right? Who would have guessed?
00:09:22
Speaker 2: Only three of the Albanese cabinet's 23 ministers have ever run a small business. Little wonder small businesses are being crushed under the weight of government incompetence. And I don't know, where would you like to start? I mean, we could talk about the ban on credit card surcharges that increased expenses for small businesses and their customers. I think that's what the Albanese government calls a win-win. Then there's the ATO's decision not to accept credit cards from small businesses and the government's decision to keep that decision to themselves. Or should we talk about a 30% tax on income from discretionary trusts? What about the fact our governments now require cafes to have well over 20 different kinds of licences just to make a cup of coffee? We have government ministers with little to no experience running businesses but they're experts at regulating businesses. So should we really be surprised by headlines like this one from today's Adelaide Advertiser? Small business owners' mental health crisis revealed. The article goes on to say, small business owners drowning in debt, smashed by rising costs and a quagmire of regulation, tax and policy changes are turning to financial counsellors and mental health services in record numbers, triggering fears of an emerging crisis. So while the Prime Minister is in New York receiving Global Citizen Awards, and Anika Wells is glorying in her nomination by Time magazine of one of the world's most influential up-and-comers, and while Chris Bowen is sprouting around in Fiji as president of global warming, and while Anne Ali is spending a week in Paris signing a memorandum on gender equality, back in the real world, people's lives are being ruined by these clowns. Back to the Adelaide Advertiser story. Cases dealt with by the Small Business Debt Helpline, which was set up in 2020 in the wake of the devastating Black Summer bushfires, well, calls to that helpline.
00:11:15
Speaker 3: Have increased by 31%.
00:11:16
Speaker 2: 7,963 calls in the year to August. Its financial counsellors are currently dealing with over 40 cases every day, more than at any other time since its launch in 2020. These are not abstract economic indicators.
00:11:31
Speaker 3: These are people.
00:11:33
Speaker 2: who've put their savings, their time and often their family's financial security on the line to build something of their own. And increasingly, they're discovering the biggest business challenge they face is not their competitors. It's not even their customers or the economy. It's their own government. Joining me now is former Labor MP Michael Danby and Shadow Regional Health Minister Anne Webster. Welcome to you both. Anne, I'll start with you. Is there a connection between the lack of real world experience of the political class and the problems we're seeing in the real world as a result of government decisions?
00:12:07
Speaker 4: Well, James, I am not going to disagree with you. There is clearly a disconnect when you've got three ministers out of 23 who have small business experience. And even today I was talking with a cafe owner and they had, he was talking about the surcharge and the fact that they had decided that they would just have to manage it and put up prices because the government's idea is that they could just, you know, cover the surcharge. He said they've worked out it's $ 60, 000 a year just for the surcharge. That's one of their waitstaff they can't employ. And this is the kind of disconnect, as you rightly say, that our ministers have and the Treasurer has between the real world and those who are actually doing it tough on the line, managing all of the red tape, managing fuel costs going up and paying fuel surcharges so that what they're buying into the business is also costing them so dearly that they're having to just put up their prices.
00:13:16
Speaker 2: I tell you what, Anne, if you want to have your ear chewed off for 15 minutes, just do as I did. And I went into my local cafe and I met the owner inadvertently.
00:13:26
Speaker 3: And I told him I worked for News 24.
00:13:27
Speaker 2: Well, for the next 15 minutes, I sat there waiting for my coffee while he told me all of his woes. And I'm not calling him a whinger. He was justified in everything he was saying. But I tell you what, he could not unload enough to me how angry he is at this government. And then a few days later, I went to a different cafe, exactly the same experience.
00:13:48
Speaker 3: Michael.
00:13:49
Speaker 2: Has it always been the case that politicians lack real world experience or is this sort of a new problem unique to our generation?
00:13:58
Speaker 5: It's got much worse, James. Paul Keating ran a rock band. Barry Cohen ran a menswear shop. I ran my late mother's art gallery for a little while. But the real point is people lack wider world experience. What people are getting at is, you know, they don't have experience of real life. This caucus is the most ministerial staffers and electoral staffers that have ever been, and not coincidentally, they're the most gormless. Power shifts like the change in the rules for electing the Prime Minister, the Rudd rules, and the secret power grab of Albo and Andrews during COVID to control all pre-selections have meant that this is a Labor caucus that won't challenge Prime Minister or the Treasurer when they make clearly ridiculous decisions, which they would hear, James, when they go down to the coffee shop just like you.
00:14:59
Speaker 2: And you're not that long in politics. Just remind me how long ago you were selected?
00:15:06
Speaker 4: This is my eighth year, 2019.
00:15:07
Speaker 3: Okay, so eight years.
00:15:09
Speaker 2: So you went into politics when you were about 19 years old. I was talking to Barnaby Joyce one day and my son was with me and I had to leave and so my son was on his own with Barnaby Joyce for about 20 minutes. I must say I came back into the room after 20 minutes and before I even got to the room I could hear the howls of laughter.
00:15:28
Speaker 3: Barnaby was entertaining my son.
00:15:30
Speaker 2: With all sorts of stories but On the way home, I said to my son, what did Barnaby Joyce talk to you about? And he said, well, Dad, one of the things he told me is if I ever wanted to go into politics, he told me get a real job first and then after you've done a real job, go into politics. I think that's probably pretty good advice. And One Nation are certainly, I'm not expecting you to stand up for One Nation here, by the way, but that's been one of the selling points that One Nation have tried to convince people to vote for them on, isn't it? That, well, look, our candidates might not have political experience, but that might be a good thing. And they've got a bit of a point there.
00:16:08
Speaker 1: Ah, 100%.
00:16:10
Speaker 4: Yes, you're right. I didn't come in at 19. Sorry to burst that bubble. But I certainly have a lot of life experience prior. And it is so valuable. Sometimes I look at the very young ones who are in there and I think, What experience have they got of the real world? Like, honestly, it just, it makes so much difference to your character, to your ability to face and hear what people have to say without becoming defensive, but actually, you know, engaging with people and wanting to help them. This is our job. I've said it to you before, James, this is our job. to hear what people have to say and advocate, to think about strategically how we're going to make life better.
00:16:55
Speaker 2: Well, the Herald Sun is reporting this morning that the Labor Party in Victoria looks increasingly likely to finish third in the state election, behind One Nation. So it's possible Victoria will end up with a Liberal government, One Nation as the official opposition, and the Labor Party hanging around the margins. Now, as I said in the introduction, this report comes as the Victorian Liberals insist One Nation leader Warren Pickering should not be allowed to participate in this week's leaders' debate. If I could just go back to you, Anne, first. Is Jess Wilson right to insist Warren Pickering should not be part of the debate?
00:17:28
Speaker 4: Look, I think the issue here is people get caught up in the polls and they see the orange wave coming through and that therefore means power.
00:17:36
Speaker 1: Well, no, it doesn't.
00:17:38
Speaker 4: In Victoria, One Nation have one seat, one seat. We have a Labor Party in power, 69 seats, and the coalition in power, forgive me, I'm not in the state government, I believe it's around 44 seats. I'm happy to be corrected. And the Greens have six. If you're going to go by the potential for leadership, it really has to be on the current government. And the Coalition and Labor are the foes, if you like, those who should be facing off against one another. One nation should not just be getting a free pass to pretend that they are equal to when they have not yet won seats.
00:18:20
Speaker 3: What do you think, Michael? Do you take the same view?
00:18:23
Speaker 5: No, I think Pickering should be given a Guernsey. I think they're not doing as well here in Victoria One Nation, although Pickering is an admirable character. He was in the Army like my friend Mike Kelly. I was in the Army Reserve. That wider experience we were talking about before, all does people well. So I think they'll still get the Liberals elected with their preferences and And I would be surprised if Labor doesn't end up the opposition, despite that one poll. But I do think they should be given the ability to speak up. The problem is, James, I'm not convinced that Labor will lose so catastrophically. I think they'll lose a lot of seats and end up relying on the Green political party, which you've seen so odiously described in the media this last few days as a partner in a future Victorian socialist left-stroke Greens government.
00:19:22
Speaker 2: Just what Victoria needs. You guys are both in Victoria.
00:19:26
Speaker 1: It can get worse, James.
00:19:27
Speaker 3: I've got to go to a break, but let me make both of you this offer. If you need to come up and stay at.
00:19:31
Speaker 2: Our place for a bit just to get away, if that happens, both of you are always welcome at our place any time you like.
00:19:38
Speaker 3: Thanks so much for joining me. I'm going to go to a break when we come back. Elon Musk invents the flying car. And what do you reckon the left do? They go nuts. I'll talk about that next.
00:19:53
Speaker 2: While some immigrants are shouting death to America and trying to turn the USA into something resembling the third world from which they've come, another immigrant is turning our childhood dreams of flying cars into a reality. Did you see Elon Musk showing off his flying car at the weekend?
00:20:08
Speaker 3: It was incredible.
00:20:09
Speaker 2: It was the stuff of dreams. I mean, I remember as a kid imagining that cars might one day fly.
00:20:16
Speaker 3: What's happening?
00:20:19
Speaker 6: It's fantastic.
00:20:23
Speaker 5: You're a genius.
00:20:26
Speaker 3: You're a genius.
00:20:27
Speaker 2: You know what's funny about that scene from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang? Elon Musk has invented the flying car and rather than being fawned over as a genius, many people are criticising him for the invention.
00:20:40
Speaker 7: A trillionaire builds a flying car that flips and And we're still broke.
00:20:46
Speaker 3: And there's still people that can't get food in the United States.
00:20:53
Speaker 2: Oh, get to more of those killjoys in a moment. And I assure you, there's plenty more. But back to our childhoods.
00:20:59
Speaker 3: Remember this? Well, what about this one?
00:21:25
Speaker 2: Ah, Chitty Chitty, Bang Bang, The Jetsons, The Professors, DeLorean. It was all the stuff of science fiction. Of course, there were always people who thought flying cars were ridiculous. These are presumably the same people who would have told you the Wright Brothers should stop messing around and buy a bicycle. This was about as close as I ever thought we'd get to an actual flying car.
00:21:53
Speaker 3: Ah, the Dukes of Hazzard. That was a good TV show.
00:21:56
Speaker 2: And then along came a South African immigrant who dreamed of flying cars and wasn't put off by the scepticism of even well-meaning friends. This is Elon Musk talking to Joe Rogan back in 2018. We're going to put rocket thrusters on it.
00:22:11
Speaker 1: For real?
00:22:11
Speaker 8: Yes.
00:22:11
Speaker 1: What are they going to burn? Nothing. Ultra-high pressure compressed air.
00:22:17
Speaker 4: Whoa.
00:22:18
Speaker 1: Just air? Cold gas thrusters.
00:22:20
Speaker 6: Do you have to have air tanks or are they just sucking the air out?
00:22:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an electric pump.
00:22:25
Speaker 2: Whoa.
00:22:25
Speaker 1: Pump it up to like 10,000 PSI.
00:22:27
Speaker 3: And how fast are we talking?
00:22:29
Speaker 9: Zero to 60.
00:22:29
Speaker 1: How fast do you want to go?
00:22:31
Speaker 3: How fast could it go? How fast do you want to go? I love his confidence.
00:22:35
Speaker 2: Let's just say no one's laughing now.
00:22:39
Speaker 10: Overnight, Tesla unveiling a car that would be unlike anything else on the road or in the air. Elon Musk demonstrating the new Tesla Roadster at a SpaceX rocket test site in Texas. He says it flies on compressed air, the same technology that steers rockets. And it's got rocket-like speed, too. Tesla showing off the car's ability to go from zero to 60 in just one second. And for grip at high speed, Tesla claims fans in the bottom of the car can suck it to the pavement, allowing it to drive upside down.
00:23:25
Speaker 3: It's incredible.
00:23:26
Speaker 2: It's like Hot Wheels when I was a kid, except it's real. Now, you might imagine that the unveiling of a flying car would be one of those rare moments when humanity could put aside its petty squabbles, look at something genuinely amazing.
00:23:38
Speaker 3: And say as a collective... Wow.
00:23:43
Speaker 2: Well, you'd be wrong because the internet has discovered that even the invention of a flying car can be turned into an opportunity to complain about capitalism and climate change and the fact that somebody somewhere is enjoying himself. Have a look at these responses. Doing this instead of solving world hunger, wrote one person.
00:24:02
Speaker 3: Where are our priorities? Quite right.
00:24:06
Speaker 2: Why are we wasting time inventing extraordinary things when there's still problems in the world? We should probably have a word with the people who invented the light bulb. I mean, they could have been solving world hunger instead of helping us to see our dinner.
00:24:17
Speaker 3: Or what about this?
00:24:19
Speaker 2: The world is dying from climate change and you guys are celebrating a falling car. I really can't take this anymore. A falling car. That's the technical assessment from the Department of Joyless Things. Have a look at this response to Musk's flying car. People literally just want to be able to afford to eat and heat their homes.
00:24:40
Speaker 3: Nobody wants this. Beg to differ, I want it.
00:24:45
Speaker 2: I would love it, but apparently I'm not allowed to have or even want a flying car until every person on Earth has a full stomach, a comfortable house and a taxpayer-funded university degree. I honestly wasn't aware that human progress operated on a sort of a queue system. Nobody gets to invent anything until the entire planet's been issued a satisfactory standard of living notice.
00:25:07
Speaker 3: Here's another Ebenezer Scrooge. He wrote.
00:25:10
Speaker 2: I don't want flying cars. I want clean water. I want stable climate. I want bees to survive.
00:25:17
Speaker 1: Honey.
00:25:18
Speaker 2: Human civilisation has managed to pursue more than one thing at a time for quite a while now. We can work on clean water and invent flying cars. We can try to improve the climate and make technological breakthroughs. We can even worry about the bees while admiring an extraordinary feat of engineering. It's not a binary choice between saving the planet and having something fun to look forward to. Unless, of course, you're one of those people who regards joy as suspiciously a capitalistic emotion. You have to wonder what the naysayers would have thought if just five years ago this had happened, you know, before they started applying the political lens to Elon and his companies, because it seems to me once you've decided a man is the villain of your preferred political narrative, even his greatest achievements are just used as evidence against him. Have a listen as a classic example of this attitude towards, listen rather to the dismissive smugness on the BBC as they report the The world's first flying car.
00:26:19
Speaker 7: So might we see it on the roads any time soon?
00:26:22
Speaker 3: Unlikely.
00:26:22
Speaker 7: It hasn't been approved for use on public highways and that can take years.
00:26:28
Speaker 3: What is wrong with these people?
00:26:30
Speaker 2: In a world of doom and gloom, could we not just for a moment put aside our cynicism, our political differences and look at a flying car and all agree that?
00:26:40
Speaker 3: That is amazing.
00:26:42
Speaker 2: This guy captures my reaction to Elon Musk's flying Tesla, minus the language, of course.
00:26:50
Speaker 1: What?
00:26:50
Speaker 9: What?
00:26:51
Speaker 11: What the f * * *?
00:26:54
Speaker 3: What the f * * * in the Red Bull?
00:26:56
Speaker 1: F * * *, that's a Red Bull trick!
00:27:01
Speaker 5: What the.
00:27:03
Speaker 8: F * * *?
00:27:05
Speaker 3: Let me ask you a question.
00:27:06
Speaker 2: Who would you rather have dinner with, that bloke or the BBC reporter? I know who I'd rather hang out with. Now, within hours, people around the world started coming up with applications for the flying car. I've got to share some of these with you because they're just too good for you not to see. Criminals are going to love the flying car.
00:27:24
Speaker 1: Repeat, here, body, right to a centre.
00:27:25
Speaker 9: I'll cross there in a second.
00:27:26
Speaker 3: Again, take it to make that.
00:27:43
Speaker 2: And I dare say a few wives will find a flying car quite handy. Now that Musk has invented the flying car, remind me never to book a window seat ever again. Elon Musk's flying Tesla is already a hit in Mexico where everyone wants to get hold of one. And it's not just the Mexicans. Victorians will find plenty of use for the flying car, I'm sure.
00:28:26
Speaker 3: Yo, yo, did you see that?
00:28:29
Speaker 2: Tesla drivers in India, however, are a little more circumspect. Not that we in the West can laugh. Road signs are obviously going to need to be rethought. They haven't yet got a release date, let alone a price for the flying Tesla at this stage. So while I absolutely love it, it's too early to say whether or not I'd get one. I mean, I'd be great to have one, but I do struggle with, you know, all the beeps and alerts and alarms and buttons in my current vehicle without the complication of more buttons to go flying. Let's face it, if you get the flying Tesla and just make one error in pushing the buttons, catastrophe.
00:29:33
Speaker 6: Help!
00:29:34
Speaker 3: Help!
00:29:32
Speaker 2: Go!
00:29:33
Speaker 5: Go!
00:29:33
Speaker 2: Go!
00:29:40
Speaker 3: That, I'm afraid, would probably be me.
00:29:42
Speaker 2: Leaving all the jokes aside, you and I experienced history this weekend. We were the generation alive when the first ever flying car was demonstrated. Was it Charles Dickens who said it was the best of times and the worst of times? That's the age in which you and I live. There's a lot of doom and gloom. There's more than.
00:30:00
Speaker 3: Enough to be depressed about.
00:30:01
Speaker 2: And there are people who seem determined to make sure we never forget any of the problems. But every now and then, something happens that reminds us human beings are capable of extraordinary things. We take an idea that seems absurd, a dream that looks impossible, and through ingenuity, persistence, and a refusal to accept the limits of the present, we bring it into the real world. That's how progress happens, not by insisting everything is terrible, not by demanding that every new invention first satisfy the approval of the political class, and certainly not by treating every achievement as an opportunity to rehearse our grievances. Human beings are capable of amazing things. We should be able to celebrate that. without first checking whether the person responsible for the amazing thing votes the right way. So well done, Elon Musk, a flying car, absolutely incredible. And as for the doubters and the cynics, well, the flying car might come in handy for dealing with them too.
00:31:02
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:31:03
Speaker 10: What?
00:31:03
Speaker 7: Come on.
00:31:04
Speaker 5: Yeah.
00:31:05
Speaker 10: What?
00:31:06
Speaker 3: Come on, come on, come on.
00:31:10
Speaker 10: Come on, come on.
00:31:14
Speaker 3: Oh.
00:31:16
Speaker 9: Oh.
00:31:16
Speaker 1: Because I wasn't cool enough straight down.
00:31:41
Speaker 3: There you go.
00:31:42
Speaker 2: All right, after the break, major problems in the UK. A top government adviser's wife is accused of supporting a terror group. A UK citizen is investigated by police for the crime of liking Israel too much. And wait until you hear what the co-leader of the Scottish Greens says when she's asked about the existence of Israel.
00:32:00
Speaker 3: All of that with Tom Slater after this.
00:32:07
Speaker 2: Well, if you think the West is struggling to put the pro-Palestine genie back in the bottle, let me take you to Britain, where the genie appears to have acquired a lawyer, a publishing deal and possibly a rather interesting marriage. The Metropolitan Police are trying to work out whether or not they should charge the wife of Britain's national security adviser for supporting a terror organisation. Sarah Helm is married to Jonathan Powell, a former diplomat who now serves as Andy Burnham's national security adviser. Now, she wrote on X, God help us authors who support Palestine and Palestine actions. The tweet was posted in support of an Irish author who stopped selling books in Britain after admitting the proceeds would go towards Palestine Action, which the British government has prescribed as a terror organisation. Now, while the tweet didn't directly say that she supports Palestine action, it's pretty hard not to interpret it as support for the group. And as I said, her husband is Britain's chief negotiator with Israel. Joining me now is Spiked Online editor Tom Slater. Tom, should we really be surprised by this? Anti-Israel views are now the norm among the ruling class.
00:33:14
Speaker 3: In the UK.
00:33:16
Speaker 1: No, absolutely. This is just another reminder of it. The fact that you've got someone who is.
00:33:21
Speaker 12: Such a part of the British establishment, married into the British establishment, who is openly expressing these views is very telling, is very damning. It makes it very difficult for Jonathan Powell, of course, who the latest is that he's considering resignation, citing exhaustion with the job. I dare say it might have been this particular scandal, which has hastened and sharpened that exhaustion.
00:33:40
Speaker 1: We wait to see what happens there.
00:33:41
Speaker 12: The difficulty with all of this is, is Palestine Action were prescribed by the Labour government. They were branded a terror group, as you say, which obviously makes expressing support for a criminal offence under the Terrorism Act in this country. The problem therein, and this is something that the government never properly reckoned with, is that Palestine Action does have a lot of supporters.
00:33:58
Speaker 1: It's not an Islamist group.
00:33:59
Speaker 12: It's not a terrorist group in the sense that it targets civilians, it engages in vandalism against RAF bases and things of this nature. I've also attacked police officers in the course of doing that.
00:34:10
Speaker 1: But it always.
00:34:11
Speaker 12: Provided a bit of a problem for free speech, to be perfectly frank, not just when it comes to this particular case, but there's been thousands of arrests of people just for holding up placards supporting Palestine Action. So I think that there is actually a free speech issue here as much as anything else, but there is also just how embarrassing it is that a government that still likes to claim, and no one really believes them, that they're not set against the state of Israel, they're just concerned about the Palestinians, things like this confirm our suspicions that that is definitely not the case.
00:34:39
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
00:34:39
Speaker 2: Well, you mentioned Palestine Action was listed as a terrorist group after they attacked British Defence Force installations. Now there's a new pro-Palestine group targeting not Defence Force installations but the homes of British people who work for defence firms in the UK. What can you tell us about this group?
00:34:57
Speaker 12: This is a really sinister development. It's calling itself The List, which, again, has pretty dark undertones, doesn't it? There have been acts of vandalism on the homes of people who work for defence companies, as you say. Also, they then will post videos on social media, essentially saying, quit your jobs or this is going to happen to you. And just that really abhorrent shift from targeting military installations or targeting defence companies itself, which is still criminal and should be treated very seriously, of course, but to just the.
00:35:25
Speaker 1: People who work there.
00:35:26
Speaker 12: I mean, this shows that the sheer intolerance, the sort of derangement of the pro-Palestine set, the radicalisation of people who a few years ago might have just been on a, trans pride march are now suddenly you know taking matters into their own hands and menacing innocent workers i think it shows just to the point you made at the top of this segment that that kind of pro-palestine movement that palestinianism it has gone completely out of control in this country and you end up with people who think they're on the right side of history telling a bloke who just you know pushes paper at a defense firm that he might be next how the hell we got.
00:36:01
Speaker 2: Into this position i don't know I got bad news for you, Tom. It's about to get worse because I want to talk to you about police rocking up to the house of a British woman.
00:36:10
Speaker 3: The police were concerned that she was too pro-Israel.
00:36:14
Speaker 2: Holly Passmore was visited by the cops at the recommendation of the UK's counter-extremism program. A police intelligence report seen by The Telegraph reveals that the referral said she over-identified with the conflict between Israel and Palestine and was, quote, supportive of Israel to the point that she travelled to Israel. I just find this extraordinary. But this is what's happening in the UK.
00:36:43
Speaker 1: This is demented.
00:36:44
Speaker 12: I mean, you're essentially treating people, unfortunately, vanishingly few people in this country, it sometimes feels.
00:36:49
Speaker 1: Like, who are sympathetic.
00:36:50
Speaker 12: to the Jewish state, to the state of Israel, who are essentially being treated almost as like a fifth column, that if you happen to support the only democracy in the Middle East, if you happen to side with them in their fight against Islamist terrorists, rather than said Islamist terrorists, that you're the.
00:37:04
Speaker 1: One who should garner suspicion is absurd.
00:37:08
Speaker 12: And it's also absurd because of the fact that the PREVENT programme is supposed to get on top of the potential extremism and terror threats in this country. You don't need any prizes for guessing that the overwhelming majority of that threat comes from Islamist extremism. It does not come from particularly energetic supporters of the Zionist project.
00:37:26
Speaker 1: So to see that the police are wasting their.
00:37:28
Speaker 12: Time talking to someone and visiting someone, which is going to put the wind up anyone if you get a knock from the police, even if it is a kind of strange authoritarian courtesy call, as it seems to have been in this case, just shows the war priorities of this government. We're menaced by Islamist extremism, and yet we've now rebranded essentially mainstream pro-Israel, in some cases just centre-right views, as a form of radicalisation that the state has to concern itself with.
00:37:55
Speaker 1: It's totally nuts.
00:37:56
Speaker 2: Tom, did you say an authoritarian curtsy? That's a phrase I've not heard before, but I like that.
00:38:03
Speaker 1: A courtesy call is what was asked. Oh, a courtesy call. Authoritarian curtsy is how that would work. I don't know. They would probably be in some sort of uniform, I suppose.
00:38:11
Speaker 3: I misheard, but I still like it. It's a good expression. I'm going to use that.
00:38:14
Speaker 2: Scottish Greens co-leader Gillian Mackay was asked at the weekend whether or not Israel had a right to exist. This is the co-leader of the Scottish Greens.
00:38:23
Speaker 3: Have a listen to this.
00:38:25
Speaker 6: Can I ask you a question Gillian? Does Israel have the right to exist?
00:38:41
Speaker 3: It's a difficult one. It's evidently very difficult. She could barely speak.
00:38:49
Speaker 2: The reporter then asked if Israel should have a right to exist in, you know, Israel, where it's existed for thousands of years.
00:38:57
Speaker 6: They absolutely should have a right to exist.
00:39:01
Speaker 1: To a homeland in the Middle.
00:39:07
Speaker 6: East.
00:39:09
Speaker 9: I think they absolutely should have the right to have.
00:39:15
Speaker 3: Somewhere to... somewhere to be and to be able to live in peace.
00:39:19
Speaker 2: So the Jews absolutely have a right to live somewhere, just not in Israel. Tom, this demonstrates I suppose what we've been talking about doesn't it? That this anti-Israel attitude is now right through the establishment in the UK and in much of Europe now.
00:39:40
Speaker 1: No, it certainly is.
00:39:41
Speaker 12: And the fact that you have so many politicians now who either struggle to answer the question, does Israel have a right to exist? Or in some cases would happily say, that it doesn't, is the fundamental double standard where Israel and the Jewish state is concerned. The fact that this is the only nation on earth who is not given the right to self-determination, the fact that no one would ever expect themselves to be asked, nor less to struggle to answer the question, does Turkey have a right to exist? Does Pakistan have a right to exist?
00:40:09
Speaker 1: I think is really, really telling.
00:40:11
Speaker 12: And isn't it interesting that it's the world's only Jewish state for whom that privilege is not afforded to? The way in which he was stumbling there, I think, is also quite telling, because I think there's a lot of wings of progressive politics who have taken on a kind of anti-Israel stance without ever properly thinking through the consequences of it. The fact that they are effectively endorsing an anti-Semitic double standard when they fail to say that Israel doesn't have a right to exist. They almost haven't thought about it until about five minutes ago when this became such a totalising issue.
00:40:40
Speaker 1: For people on the supposedly progressive left.
00:40:43
Speaker 12: It's fascinating how quickly that orthodoxy has taken hold amongst people who, if we're being honest, probably didn't spend that much time thinking about this issue until October the 7th. And isn't it depressing that their response to October the 7th was, oh, this state that is under attack probably deserves our support is to side with its attackers.
00:41:00
Speaker 1: But yeah, really telling interview that.
00:41:02
Speaker 3: I got to go to a break, Tom.
00:41:03
Speaker 2: I'd love to spend hours talking to you about this, but I just wonder if these, they've not put much thought into the Israel question, that's for sure. I wonder if they've thought, put much thought into the fact that as they denounce Israel, this is bound to blow back on their own countries. We're starting to see all sorts of unrest throughout Europe and none of this pretends anything good for the future.
00:41:25
Speaker 3: I appreciate you joining me tonight. Thanks so much.
00:41:27
Speaker 2: It's always a delight to catch up. All right, stick around after the break. Donald Trump sacks his White House press secretary just five days after she started in the job. And Kamala Harris explains why she has such a weird laugh. My panel will join me after this. Well, they do say records are meant to be broken and nobody's happy about the sacking of White House press secretary Katie Zachariah.
00:41:53
Speaker 3: Than Anthony Scaramucci.
00:41:55
Speaker 2: Scaramucci was sacked after just 11 days in the job during the first Trump administration, a tenure so brief it barely qualified as employment. But Zachariah's removal after just five days makes Scaramucci look like a seasoned veteran. At this rate, the next press secretary will be handed a security pass and a farewell card all at the same time. Scaramucci, the undisputed world champion of short White House careers, offered his successor some consolation, writing, speaking as the world's leading expert on short White House tenures, turn off the news and go enjoy your family. In time, you'll realise that the universe did you a major favour. Here's what Trump had to say just before he let Katie Zachariah go.
00:42:38
Speaker 12: But it's not an easy job, and I think she was really treated very.
00:42:42
Speaker 8: Unfairly, so I'll speak to her about it.
00:42:44
Speaker 7: I told her, I think you're better off being happy, and I'm not sure you can ever be happy in this job.
00:42:49
Speaker 10: There's nothing easy about this job.
00:42:52
Speaker 2: Joining me now is my panel, former Liberal Senator, now One Nation member, Holly Hughes, and Liberal councillor at Waverley Council, Michelle Stevenson. I'll start with you, Holly. Right decision of Trump to give her the flick?
00:43:06
Speaker 7: Oh, I mean, look, they were never going to get Caroline Leavitt Mark II straight off the bat. I think she had a rough couple of days starting in the job. I mean, who hasn't started a new job and taken a little bit of time to get into it? The problem is you are on the world stage doing this. So, Look, I feel sorry for her. And I think Scaramucci's advice of turn the TV off, enjoy your family and the universe has done you a favour is probably the nicest piece of advice she's going to get and probably what she should do, because political life, public life can be bloody awful. And, you know, she probably doesn't deserve the scorn she's going to get. And Trump's not wrong. You know, you've got to be happy and Pretty sure that job doesn't make anybody happy, unless you're CJ in the West Wing, which was just a Democrat fantasy.
00:44:00
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, you're both in the public view and in public jobs, so you'd both know better than most what it's like. Before I go to you, Michelle, I've got to say, this latest press secretary now gone certainly wasn't as bad as some of Biden's representatives. Do you remember Corrine Jean-Pierre? Just as a reminder, this was her first day on the job.
00:44:21
Speaker 3: Have a look.
00:44:22
Speaker 8: Just want to say a few words about how honored I am to be here with all of you today in this role, in this room, standing behind this podium. I am obviously acutely aware that my presence at this podium represents a few firsts. I am a black gay immigrant woman, the first of all three of those to hold this position.
00:44:46
Speaker 2: Michelle, Katie Zachariah wasn't that bad, actually.
00:44:50
Speaker 3: No, I mean, like, why.
00:44:51
Speaker 11: Did she have to mention that she's a black, gay, immigrant woman? I mean, it has nothing to do with the job.
00:44:57
Speaker 3: She mentioned that because that's all she had going for it.
00:45:00
Speaker 11: But it had nothing to do with the job, and this is, like, part of the problem. Just get up there and do the job. You are hired to do something specifically, and it has nothing to do with your sexual persuasion, what you look like or where you were born. But I do have to say... Jen Psaki was one of my favourites. I think she did a really, really good job. But it is a tough gig and I do get it. But clearly, the one who just got let go was not up to the task.
00:45:24
Speaker 3: She wasn't even close to being up to the task.
00:45:27
Speaker 11: I mean, was there even a screen test involved? Did anyone ask her if she knew how to speak into a microphone? Like, did anyone ask her a question? It just seems like it's indicative of what is happening in Trump land at the moment. The wheels are starting to fall off.
00:45:40
Speaker 3: A little bit. Oh, you are a tough marker.
00:45:44
Speaker 12: That's harsh.
00:45:45
Speaker 3: That's very harsh. Well, all right, since you're so down, Michelle, on the Trump.
00:45:49
Speaker 2: Administration, the wheels are falling off, let's talk about Kamala Harris because.
00:45:53
Speaker 3: I'll tell you what, if the wheels are falling off.
00:45:56
Speaker 2: The Trump administration, the whole car was exploding under Biden. During the week, Kamala was asked about her laugh, which has become quite famous as well as an object of ridicule. Have a listen to how she explains her laugh. shall we say, peculiar laugh?
00:46:12
Speaker 9: I'm aware of whatever the memes are about my laugh. Well, look, I was raised in a family that included very powerful women who laughed from their bellies. And powerful, I mean, they were powerful in their space. They were powerful in their family, in their community, not necessarily titles and money. But you understand my point? Absolutely. And would sit around the kitchen table with their coffee, laughing loud laughs.
00:46:51
Speaker 3: Dear Lord, did we really need all that? You've got a funny laugh. It's a bit quirky. I get it that people think it's funny. Move on. But Holly, I come from a line of powerful women. What the heck?
00:47:04
Speaker 7: Can I tell you though sometimes because, you know, when you're on live TV, live radio stuff, you get a bit caught up in the moment sometimes and you think, I'm not actually sure what I said. So I will admit sometimes I watch it back just to kind of go, did I step over a line somewhere there? But I hear my laugh sometimes and I think, really, do I laugh like that? I think it's hard, you know, as a woman that you get criticised for everything you do. however you laugh will be perceived as a giggly girl or somehow not feminine enough or whatever. But seriously, this is a woman who wants to be President of the United States and she is just an idiot.
00:47:45
Speaker 3: Forget how she laughs.
00:47:47
Speaker 7: She is an idiot. If she was super smart, coming out with great policy ideas, with incredible vision for how America is going to be the leaders of the free world and contribute to to democracy and Western civilization. Laugh however you want, my love. But the fact that that's all we've got to talk about just shows she's not up to this job, any job. But I do like that she talked about her family didn't have titles and money because she certainly made sure She's had plenty of those.
00:48:20
Speaker 3: She sure did.
00:48:21
Speaker 2: Michelle, again, I mean, why can't she just answer simply? You've got a funny laugh.
00:48:26
Speaker 3: I know. Just say that.
00:48:28
Speaker 1: I know.
00:48:28
Speaker 3: I don't get it. She's like a walking parody.
00:48:30
Speaker 11: Like everything she does, I feel like we're one step away from Saturday Night Live.
00:48:34
Speaker 3: Like I really don't understand.
00:48:36
Speaker 11: And also she could have just said, yeah, I laugh weird.
00:48:39
Speaker 3: I get it.
00:48:40
Speaker 11: But instead we had to have Liz's whole diatribe about powerful, taking up space.
00:48:45
Speaker 3: This is who I am. Like, it's just too much. Just shut up.
00:48:49
Speaker 1: Just shut up.
00:48:50
Speaker 3: I absolutely agree.
00:48:52
Speaker 2: So, Michelle, earlier you talked about the wheels falling off the Trump administration.
00:48:55
Speaker 3: Oh, I offended you, didn't I? No, you didn't offend me. I'm unoffendable. But I just think before you complain about Trump, just remember what he replaced. I'm agnostic.
00:49:06
Speaker 11: I think both sides can take the heat.
00:49:09
Speaker 3: I've got to go, ladies. A delight to chat. Thanks so much. And thanks to you at home for your company. Stick around. Up next, hosting Paul Murray Live is my good friend, Caleb Bond.
