WEBVTT
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Welcome to The Factor podcast, where we talk about the
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stuff they didn't teach you in school, how to grow
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your practice, refine your clinical skills, and get better results
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for your patients. We're here to help you navigate the
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real world challenges of being a healthcare provider, from delivering
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top notch patient care to running a business that doesn't
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run you into the ground. Whether you're fresh out of
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school or scaling your practice, we're diving into effective, cutting
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edge treatments to get patients better, faster. We'll also talk
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about business strategies and tactics to help you work smarter
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and not harder, and the mindset shifts required to thrive
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as a top performer in your field so you can
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build a career you love without burning out. If you're
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ready to learn what works and what doesn't from leading experts,
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industry innovators, and respective clinicians across a wide range of specialties,
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you're in the right place.
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My friend. Let's dive in.
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Welcome back to the Factor podcast, where we rich the
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gap between rehab performance and real world clinical practice. I'm
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your host, Jessica Riddle, and today we're closing out our
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three part conversation with doctor Carolina Shander, licensed psychologist and
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certified mental performance consultant who specializes in sport and performance psychology.
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Throughout this series, we've talked about the whole human behind
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the athlete, the role of identity, mental health, pain recovery, burnout, agency,
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and communication in clinical care and performance. In this final
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part of the conversation, we move into resources, referral pathways,
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and what providers can actually do when they recognize that
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a patient may need support beyond the physical care plan.
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Doctor Shander shares practical places to look for mental health
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and performance psychology providers, how to think about finding the
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right fit, and why building a relationship with a trusted
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provider in your area can make it easier to support patients.
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When those needs arise.
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We also talk today about accessible resources for patients who
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may not have the financial means for one on one care,
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including support groups, low cost options, books, apps, and community
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based resources. And finally, we'll touch on the role of
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AI and mental health and performance care, where it may
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be useful for education or finding resources, but why it
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can't fully replace the human connection that makes therapy so meaningful.
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This episode is a practical and thoughtful close to a
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conversation every provider should be having. How do we treat
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the person in front of us, not just the injury
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that they walked in with. Let's dive into part three
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of my conversation with doctor Carolina Shander.
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What are some practices that you would recommend for healthcare
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providers to do for themselves to prevent burnout and to
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help them be healthy and be in a place where
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they can continue to give at such a high level.
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You just said something super important about burnout or even like,
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let's say, challengees sometimes because we're so a driven but
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also we're doing so many things and supporting so many people,
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like we don't notice it in ourselves. And so something
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I like to ask people is when do you know
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that you're performing at your best and then be able
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to scale that back to like when do you know
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that you're performing just at like meets expectations and that
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you're doing just enough right to get by? And if
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those are the things that are different and you're not
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kind of lining up to those, then maybe you start
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to ask yourself questions of like, Okay, maybe there's something
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I need to shift and change. But a big part
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is awareness and also prevention so like being aware and
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also kind of doing some of these mental skills or
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mental performance skills for prevention are the two things that
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make people really elite, at least from my experience, because
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we got to know ourselves super well, and then we
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also got to look at things in a way from
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prevention and not just reaction. And so for practitioners, it's
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about how do we implement breaks and not breaks like
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self care like oh, take two weeks off or what
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not to recover and rejuvenate. But what does it look
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like to take fifteen minutes to ourselves before we start
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our workday, literally just sitting in our car to be
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able to either meet ourselves where we're at and ask
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ourselves like what do I need right now? Or to
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jam out in our car and give ourselves just I guess,
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the space to just be and feel whatever we want to, y'all.
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I also recommend being able to have like a regular
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check in with like how am I doing? Maybe it's
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on a Sunday, but maybe not, it's Sunday scaries too,
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but like maybe at some point during the week that
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you know and you can depend on giving yourself the
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opportunity to not have to be available to anybody else
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but yourself. I think the helping profession and including myself,
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we get wrapped up in how helpful I can be
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to somebody else versus that I also have to be
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helpful to myself. I also think about what are the
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kind of three non negotiables that I, as a human
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have each day to make myself be able to function
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at just like a baseline, Like for me, it's some
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kind of movement at least a cup of coffee, and
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then a favorite snack, like I have to have some
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kind of favorite snack every day that I look forward
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to because that gives me that like jolt and excitement
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of like, Okay, I'm not just like eating you know,
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my egg bites or like my fruit or anything like that,
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but something that's going to give me that extra jolt
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in the afternoon that I can depend on. I think
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the big part about burn is there's no kind of
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anticipation of relief. And if we can build that in
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throughout our day, within our week, within our month, we're
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more likely to be able to feel like, Okay, I'm
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honoring what I need and what I feel right now,
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and I can be okay.
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And I've heard that some too, when it comes to
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like the even the neuroscience behind motivation and behind fulfillment
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in your career or even in other areas of life.
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Your brain needs novelty and your brain to look forward to.
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And I think one of the things that you said
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was so important is that it doesn't have to be
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a two week vacation because oftentimes, especially if you are
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a business owner or a parent, or someone who has
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a heavy amount of responsibility, you're caring. You can't just
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peace out. But if you can build in little things
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like having a favorite snack, like having something to look
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forward to in your day to day or even something
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once a week, that can be a really crucial component.
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And I think you know, I would venture to guess
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even asking your patience about that too, Like do you
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have something on a regular basis that you do just
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for you? Like how are you feeding yourself? Not just
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from a food standpoint, but how are you like feeding
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your soul right now? What are you doing to incorporate
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something positive in your daily life?
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Yeah, and having that awareness of how and what fuels
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your soul right Like, I think something that's really effective
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sometimes for people is this idea of just being a
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little bit more mindful and aware, right, Like, so can
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we slow things down? Can I pay attention to Okay,
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when I drive up to my office, do I just
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shut the car off really quickly and run out and
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get in the office, or do I take a second
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and like take a couple deep breasts, and do I
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make sure I have my water and my coffee and
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my snack, and like, okay, I have what I need
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today and give myself I guess that promise that I
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have everything that I need today, or maybe just the
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awareness that I don't, and that's okay. But to slow
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down just a little bit, I mean that awareness just
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allows us to feel so much more comfortable and safe
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over time, because our body is prepared for us to
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do so. If we're constantly, for example, running like you'll
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be running from a bear forever, versus like, oh, I
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have a hiding spot, I'm able to take a sit
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down and be able to rest and be okay. I mean,
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our body and our nervous system responds so much better
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to promises of rest and recovery than it does to
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a never ending goal that we don't know when we're
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going to get there and achieve.
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I know, a lot of high achievers or driven individuals,
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and I can even speak from my own experience, sometimes
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have feelings of guilt. So take even if it's small,
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you have guilt because there's a never ending to do list. Yeah,
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I feel like, especially a lot of times, caregivers or
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parents experience this where it's like, how do I take
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time for me when they need so much? Do you
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feel like it is helpful to you plan or to
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schedule these instances of rest or these instances of feeding
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your soul so to speak?
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Is that a better way to kind of counteract that
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guilt that inevitably comes from that if they at least
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know it's coming, or if you can at least plan
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it or set it aside, then maybe that takes away
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some of the weight of the guilt of all the
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other things that are stacking up while I'm taking this time.
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I mean, first of all, I would be really curious
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of like where that guilt comes from, because I mean,
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it is pretty common, but where it comes from is
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different for different kinds of people. But I think pre
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scheduled is always important because there's that dependability and almost
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like accountability or responsibility you create for yourself as well
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as the fact that like, you know it's there and
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you can you show up to eight am on a
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Thursday and you know that that's your half hour walk
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or your time that you have for yourself. For sure,
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I think what is important, at least for me to
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assess an access is what kind of how do we
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build in this kind of time and rest that it
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actually makes sense to you for you to be able
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to do it and commit to it in function. So
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I don't know about you, but there have been moments
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in my life where I've taken a day off and
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I end up doing more on my day off than
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I did on my work day because I put all
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of my other things on my day off because I
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feel like I need to do them, versus to be
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able to start to understand similar to like an athlete,
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right of like, rest isn't just about doing nothing, but
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it's about like, Okay, how do I give myself peace
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for a minute. How do I reset my nervous system
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to be able to fire on all cylinders tomorrow and
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to make it feel important for me and to make
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it feel important for that practitioner or that athlete that wow, okay,
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I took that thirty minutes, and maybe I was a
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little bit more anxious the rest of the day because
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I felt like I could have done something else then,
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But dang I slept better, or like my stomach hurt
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a little bit less, or I wasn't as grabby to
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my husband. Like being able to also help somebody build
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the awareness of what the effect of that rest is
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is actually probably going to help us be able to
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schedule it a little bit more often or a little
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bit more so. To answer your question, yes, but there's
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some other caveats in.
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There, I would add absolutely, And I understand too that
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as a healthcare provider and as someone that is a healer,
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I'm sure this is also very true to healthcare providers
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like yourself that are in the mental health field. You
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are in a position to where you're coming alongside these
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patients in their healing journey, and you're carrying a little
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bit of a load, right, whether that means that you're
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using your hands on them to treat their physical body,
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whether that means you're sitting down and you're having deep
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conversations with them and kind of unpacking some things from
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a mental or emotional standpoint. How important has having some
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type of ritual for you as a provider, maybe in
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between patient visits, maybe at the end of the day,
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to kind of reset for yourself, because I know, especially
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people who are very empathetic, you feel a lot and
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sometimes you feel the emotions of other people, or you
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feel the energy coming from other people. And many times
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when you are seeing people in pain, they may be
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at some experienced some of the worst times of their life.
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How important have you found having some type of ritual
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or practice that you do on a regular basis to
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kind of I don't mean to use the cheesy word
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like cleanse yourself, but like, how do you get it
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off of you? How do you get that negative energy
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or that those emotions that this other person is experiencing
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that sometimes may even churn up things within yourself. What
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do you recommend to make sure that these providers are
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kind of able to reset themselves and their own nervous
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system after those interactions.
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That's a good question, and I'm smiling because a big
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part of my work is to feel the motions in
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the room, especially when somebody can't, and so being able
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to hold that and work with it and access it
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is massive. And I didn't realize how important it was
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to I guess, like take care of myself until I
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don't know, like five years ago. Where part of the
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answer to your question is being able and open to changing,
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Like what I need to do what I've noticed for
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myself when I have a really hard day or a
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day that just feels like wow, like it was really
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good one but really active and there was a lot
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at play and there was so much kind of work
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going on, I actually need to drive home in silence.
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I need to give myself the silence to not call
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and make appointments or to call somebody that I need
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to talk to that I've wanted to talk to for
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a while, but to just give myself the forty minute
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drive to see what comes up for me because I
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haven't had actually the silence to do so that I
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found important. I find movement really helpful. So we work
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on a fifty minute window and so zero to fifteen,
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and so then I have that ten minutes to grab
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a snack, pee, do whatever. But what I found for
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myself that's really important, which is also super like it's
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shown in the research of changing position. So I might
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be sitting in my desk chair like on a video call,
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and then I'll literally lay down on my floor just
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for a minute and just to be able to change
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like my body position, to be able to be like, oh,
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I'm in a different place and be able to reset
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for the next person. Or I go sit out, or
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I go sit outside just for literally thirty seconds to
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get some vitamin D, but to just change my position
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in my environment, because our body needs some kind of reminder,
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hey I'm okay, Hey I need a little reset as
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well as my own self talk of like being able
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to create safety and predictability for myself that yeah, I'm
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feeling a lot right now, but I will have some
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time to decompress it and relax when I drive home,
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being able to remind myself of that time that I
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have kind of set aside for myself to give permission
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to feel whatever I need to feel. And then that
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might change at different times, at different times in my
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life and at different times in my career. I actually
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I needed to go do something physically like hard to
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feel like I can work through some of those emotions.
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So for example, like I would I'd always joke if
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I wasn't a psychologist, I would be a soul cycle
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instructor because I love to like just like swing to
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the beat of the music in a dark room where
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nobody can see me and I can just feel whatever
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I need to feel. And that is something that I
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learned about myself. But that's because I got super curious
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of like what actually helps me, what makes me feel
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like me rejuvenated, And so I practiced and tried a
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lot of different things, even if they didn't apply to me,
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Like some of my friends do some like meditation, and
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I struggle with that, so that wasn't what I did,
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or like they really love to listen to audiobooks, It's like,
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that's not my thing either. But to give yourself permission
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to try different things, even if they're a little bit
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more unconventional, I.
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Think that's huge. Is about figuring out what works for you.
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I'm very much like you, like I like to work
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things out physically. I have a peloton because we don't
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have a soul cycle here.
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And I really wish we did because it was.
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Yeah, I mean it honestly, like that saved me going
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through COVID and like time when there were big feelings
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and you didn't really know what to do with them,
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and it's interesting that you said that about meditation, because
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I know that there's much great research about the benefits
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of meditation and mindfulness and breath work. If you are
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a person who doesn't do the sit in silence thing, well,
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what do you recommend to still have that mindfulness practice,
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like is there is it good to have like mantra
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or guided meditation, is it good to have breath work?
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And what would you recommend as kind of like at
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a minimum, if you could do this much when it
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comes to meditation or mindfulness every day, it can be
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impactful for your mental mental health.
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So don't completely quote me, but I think it's the
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research would show that like five minutes a day of
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some kind of meditation mindfulness and that can look on
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various levels, actually improves like outcomes I think like ten
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to twenty percent, whether that's mental health outcome or performance outcomes.
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There's a lot of research about injury and imagery to
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be able to if you're doing about five minutes a day,
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there's about I think ten percent of an increase in healing,
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especially with ACL recovery. But I have to go look
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at the numbers again, and I can quote that for myself,
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but there is a lot of data on that. I
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think what's important is I'm not a sit in silence
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kind of human and meditate, but I love mindful walking.
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There are also ways that you can incorporate mindfulness and
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meditation into the things that you're doing, whether that's walking
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or running or cooking. It's about really figuring out and
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finding what works best for you. There's a couple apps
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that are really useful. Let me see if I can
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pull up my phone, but I think it's Healthy Minds.
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I think it just changed into human is one of
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the apps that they have various a voices which are
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different for different people and feel a lot more connecting
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or not. And they last from like five minutes to
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thirty minutes. But there's tons of stuff actually on YouTube
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that you can implement some breathwork and mindfulness into stuff
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you already do. Right and again, kind of part of
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it is how how to find something that you're going
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to commit to and do often that it's a part
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of your practice and who you are, right, it's not
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just about sitting in silence and I don't know is
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dissociating and staring out into the distance, But more so
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like how do I give myself the space to relax
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and give myself some peace. And so, honestly, five minutes
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a day is enough. Some people love more, some people don't,
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But I think five minutes a day is really great.
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That's huge, And I think that's a great little tip
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or takeaway for the healthcare providers that I'll be listening
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is if you have someone that is recovering from whatever
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they're dealing with from a physical standpoint, if you can
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provide them with resources, if you can make recommendations about
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other ways that they can improve their healing or impact
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their healing in a positive way. So you mentioned that
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there are a number of different apps that can help
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with mindfulness and meditation. Another question that I definitely wanted
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to cover today is if I'm a healthcare provider and
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I realized that my patient may need to see someone
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in the mental health space, what would you recommend in
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terms of like what should they be looking for as
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far as finding someone in their area to refer patients to.
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Are there different websites directories like where do I go
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and where do I find someone that will be a
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great resource for my patient?
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Well, there's I think a lot of different places that
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you can search right, Good old Chad and Claude can
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do that for you a little bit too. I think,
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first of all, it depends on if you're going to
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be using insurance or not. And my favorite thing to
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utilize first is like going on psychology today and just
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kind of putting in yeah, if they're specifications for your area,
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and then literally reading people's bios and having conversations. So
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I know that is a little bit tedious, but having
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conversations with people and seeing if like, wow, is this
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somebody that I can connect with, Whether that's because I'm
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sending somebody a patient or this is even for myself
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right to be able to see like, can I have
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a conversation with this person? Do we connect? What kind
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of vibes do I feel? I'm a big vibes girl.
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I feel like there's a there's a gut kind of
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inclination and connection, and to be able to listen to
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that is really important. I tell this to people all
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the time. I can know a lot of things and
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I have a lot of information in my brain, but
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if you can't connect with me, then like that's okay,
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and I'm not your provider and I will find you
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somebody else. That is going to be really great. I
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think that's also my biggest recommendation, just starting somewhere and
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creating a relationship with a provider who then can also
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send you other people's names. There is a especially for
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sport performance people. There is a couple different places to look.
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The APA Division forty seven is for Sport and Performance
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Psychology within the American Psychological Association. That is going to
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have a directory of some people that are in the
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field as well as asps or people who with the
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credital CMPC for the Certified Mental Performance Consultants. Those are
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going to be the places that have a directory of
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who has the credentials to be able to work with
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sport and performance as well as some kind of clinical background,
404
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and honestly reaching out to them and developing a relationship
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is going to be the first step as a practitioner,
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and then they can direct you to somebody that might
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be a better fit, whether that's because of location, because
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of our licensing, or just in terms of fit and
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knowledge of what the person has going on for them.
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I know that within many of the professionals that we
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work with or the professions that we serve, I should
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say we have options for what we call it travel
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to treat. So you might be licensed in only one state,
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but if you are working on behalf of a sports team,
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you have the ability to travel with them and treat
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in other states. Is there something similar in your feel.
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Yeah, if you are, Like if I were to be
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working with a protein, then I can treat obviously if
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we're traveling in the states, but where you're based is
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where your primary license should be as a psychologist. There's
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also a credential called side Pact which is currently right
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now serving forty three states. So we're able to do
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telehealth across those states and be in those states when
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treating individuals, and so that's really really helpful for us
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and allows us to reach a pretty big population that
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I'm really grateful for.
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Yeah, that's incredible.
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One of the funnel questions that I'll ask because I
429
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know this has been an incredible conversation, But you have
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patients to get back to us.
431
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I want to be respectful of.
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Your time if I have a patient who does need resources,
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and unfortunately I wish and I think this is just
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my personal opinion. I feel like if our healthcare system
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would figure out a way to have more access to
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mental health services, make them more affordable for more people.
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That could absolutely change our world. But that's a whole
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different conversation there. But if I have a patient who's
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concerned about the cost, maybe they don't have mental health
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coverage on their insurance, maybe they are not in a
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financial position to add a lot more onto their regular
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expenses when it comes to seeing a mental health provider.
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You mentioned there are some apps that could be helpful
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for things like meditation, mindfulness. What other resources would you
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recommend that healthcare providers should just kind of have saved
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as bookmarks in their browser or kind of have a
447
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file with their front office to say, you know what,
448
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if we have patients that need help and or need
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to even just have a little bit more support, but
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if we want to be able to give them options
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so that if they're not in a financial position to
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seek out a provider for one on one care, what
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would you recommend or what type of resources are out
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there that can help those that don't necessarily have the
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financial means to see someone want on one from a
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counseling standpoint, but maybe still at least need to start
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having some type of support in some way that's accessible.
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Yeah, can you ask a really really great question. I
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think from like a support performance space, there's probably a
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couple more things that I can share and I can
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say a couple of those books. From just like a
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clinical mental health space. I mean, there are some resources
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on the NAMI website, the National Mental Health Alliance website,
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they have twenty four to seven support. There's also some
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support groups there I also know of, like for example,
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like y'all in Houston. They through a couple of the hospitals.
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I would always encourage kind of googling with the hospitals.
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They have some groups depending on what the person might
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be dealing with, whether that's with chronic pain or postpartum
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or they have a couple of different ones for some
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of the major hospitals that are free, which which is
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helpful as well as virtual. It depends on the human
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like what their challenges are, they're what they're working with.
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Also in terms of like eating disorders, like rc SO
475
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that Eating Disorder Recovery Center has a couple locations throughout
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the United States and they have some like virtual resources
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for people too, are that are free or low cost.
478
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I think another just like pinpoint or thing to think
479
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about is there are low cost fee services for student clinicians,
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and so that may not always be an ideal option,
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or somebody might feel some kind of way about that
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to see a student clinician. But I always once a
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student clinician, and people took a chance on me, and
484
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that just means you are supervised by either a licensed
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professional counselor or a licensed psychologist, and those fees are
486
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usually reduced, and so your care is still being taken
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care of by somebody who is well seasoned in the field,
488
00:25:39.640 --> 00:25:41.960
but it is to give practice to the student who
489
00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:44.960
is learning how to be in the field. And those
490
00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:48.359
I mean, there's lots of Facebook groups that are kind
491
00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:51.720
of servicing those needs, and so I would look up
492
00:25:51.759 --> 00:25:55.079
low cost services in your area for student clinicians, and
493
00:25:55.119 --> 00:25:57.279
so that can be an option for some of those
494
00:25:57.279 --> 00:25:59.400
who want one on one care at a more cost.
495
00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:03.200
In terms of like books or like apps for just
496
00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:07.039
clinical mental health, I'm I mean there's a range of those,
497
00:26:07.559 --> 00:26:10.880
honestly that I really would struggle to name off the
498
00:26:10.920 --> 00:26:12.640
top of my head. But when it comes to like
499
00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:15.880
books for sport and performance, I would start with like
500
00:26:16.119 --> 00:26:20.119
Peak Performance by Steve Magnus and somebody else. Mindset by
501
00:26:20.359 --> 00:26:23.839
Carol dweck Range is a really good book. It's a
502
00:26:23.880 --> 00:26:27.119
green mint cover. I forgot what the author's name is.
503
00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:30.319
And then also the Mindful Athlete is a really great
504
00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:33.319
place to start. And so those would be places that
505
00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:37.160
I would begin with regarding kind of receiving some additional support.
506
00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:40.359
But I think something that I always encourage. I know
507
00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:44.000
people may struggle financially and it's a huge gap in
508
00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:48.960
our field, and my always kind of recommendation is to ask, like, Hey,
509
00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:52.519
are there any low cost options or services or abilities
510
00:26:52.519 --> 00:26:54.559
to do so, because I know I'm willing, like I
511
00:26:54.599 --> 00:26:56.359
am in private practice, and there is a fee that
512
00:26:56.400 --> 00:26:59.799
I charge, but I am usually almost always willing to
513
00:26:59.839 --> 00:27:03.480
make some kind of change for somebody who needs the
514
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:06.160
support or wants the support, as long as it feels
515
00:27:06.240 --> 00:27:08.160
right to the both of us. And so I like
516
00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:11.480
to have that kind of conversation upfront and be able
517
00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:13.400
to say, like, I want to help you, and so
518
00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:16.359
what might that look like feasibility wise, And so I
519
00:27:16.359 --> 00:27:18.720
would always ask. It may feel really vulnerable. I know
520
00:27:18.759 --> 00:27:20.039
that was a hard thing for me when I was
521
00:27:20.079 --> 00:27:22.079
growing up, to ask for some kind of lower feed
522
00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:24.000
but I would ask because a lot of us in
523
00:27:24.039 --> 00:27:26.000
the field. They're more willing to do that than might
524
00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:26.640
be expected.
525
00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:31.480
Yeah, no, that's huge. Another kind of final question for you,
526
00:27:31.599 --> 00:27:34.359
I'm very curious to hear, and I've asked many of
527
00:27:34.400 --> 00:27:37.640
the experts that I've spoken with in different fields, how
528
00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:42.519
do you feel like the AI revolution that we're in
529
00:27:42.599 --> 00:27:46.000
right now is going to impact your field if you
530
00:27:46.039 --> 00:27:48.200
were to look ahead the next three to five years,
531
00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:51.799
how is it already kind of disrupting some of the
532
00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:55.160
work that you do in a positive or negative way?
533
00:27:56.000 --> 00:27:58.599
I mean in a positive way, right, Like Chad and
534
00:27:59.160 --> 00:28:02.799
Claude can give you some resources and some support or
535
00:28:02.799 --> 00:28:07.240
some like books like for certain challenges and quicker than
536
00:28:07.319 --> 00:28:09.319
probably you can just google. And so I think that
537
00:28:09.559 --> 00:28:11.799
AI can be helpful in that kind of way. Can
538
00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:14.519
also find providers quicker than just like a psychology search
539
00:28:14.920 --> 00:28:17.160
might do. And so that's kind of nice. But I
540
00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:20.240
think the challenge in my hesitation just like I mean,
541
00:28:20.359 --> 00:28:24.039
there are resources for clinical mental health, but nothing replaces therapy,
542
00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:27.240
Nothing replaces that relational bond and that ability to beat
543
00:28:27.279 --> 00:28:30.720
with somebody in the trenches and have this understanding of
544
00:28:30.759 --> 00:28:34.759
the whole human And that is probably my biggest qualm
545
00:28:34.759 --> 00:28:39.119
with it, because my belief is that therapy is about
546
00:28:39.200 --> 00:28:43.519
understanding the person, their attachments, the relational behaviors, their personality,
547
00:28:43.519 --> 00:28:45.880
and how they fit within a system, and then that
548
00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:49.079
system actually plays out between me and the patient. Whatever
549
00:28:49.200 --> 00:28:51.759
that like their patterns and behavior are in the outside world,
550
00:28:51.759 --> 00:28:54.400
that happens for me in the room. And so if
551
00:28:54.400 --> 00:28:58.480
we can't have that in our relationship and you're just
552
00:28:59.119 --> 00:29:01.200
the patient is looking for or that within the computer,
553
00:29:01.720 --> 00:29:04.079
it's not going to produce the same results, and it's
554
00:29:04.079 --> 00:29:06.599
going to be a little bit it's going to be
555
00:29:06.640 --> 00:29:09.079
a lot less effective, and it's going to feel pretty cold.
556
00:29:09.359 --> 00:29:12.359
And I think that's the difference between being with people
557
00:29:12.559 --> 00:29:14.599
and just being able to look for some of the
558
00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:18.359
reassurance and support with AI. I think another really great
559
00:29:18.440 --> 00:29:22.839
part of AI is being able to help our field
560
00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:26.960
create stuff like power points and whatnot. So maybe simplifies
561
00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:30.079
some of those things for us, but I think it's
562
00:29:30.079 --> 00:29:32.839
getting in the way of this human connection piece that
563
00:29:32.960 --> 00:29:36.519
is invaluable and is actually creating a pretty big barrier
564
00:29:36.599 --> 00:29:39.319
for people wanting to come in because of the vulnerability
565
00:29:39.359 --> 00:29:41.680
of sitting with somebody, despite it being the thing that
566
00:29:41.720 --> 00:29:44.599
actually probably changes their experience.
567
00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:48.440
The most absolutely well, thank you so much. This has
568
00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:53.039
been incredibly educational and informative. As kind of a final
569
00:29:53.119 --> 00:29:57.079
question and one key thing to lead with our audience today,
570
00:29:57.400 --> 00:30:01.559
based upon all of your education, your experience so far
571
00:30:01.640 --> 00:30:04.039
in your field, if you could wave a magic wand
572
00:30:04.799 --> 00:30:10.559
and in part like one key takeaway to healthcare providers
573
00:30:11.160 --> 00:30:14.119
that are either someone who's been in practice for decades
574
00:30:14.240 --> 00:30:17.519
or somebody that's just getting started, Like, what is one
575
00:30:17.680 --> 00:30:21.519
key takeaway or one thought that you'd like to leave
576
00:30:21.559 --> 00:30:24.880
the audience with that they can take into practice tomorrow
577
00:30:24.960 --> 00:30:27.720
and really start implementing. I know we've talked a lot
578
00:30:27.759 --> 00:30:30.400
about things that they need to look for, different things
579
00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:33.759
that they may need to incorporate into their practice in
580
00:30:33.880 --> 00:30:38.240
terms of their typical patient experience. But is there anything
581
00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:41.240
else that you feel like could be just something that
582
00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:44.920
they really need to either seek out to learn a
583
00:30:44.920 --> 00:30:48.880
little bit more about or maybe just have a better
584
00:30:48.920 --> 00:30:51.799
awareness of going into their next patient visit.
585
00:30:52.759 --> 00:30:56.039
I mean, number one, I think creating a relationship with
586
00:30:56.079 --> 00:30:58.920
a practitioner in your area I would be really important
587
00:30:58.920 --> 00:31:02.000
to be able to just get more information about whether
588
00:31:02.039 --> 00:31:06.440
that's mental health related topics or any kind of performance skills.
589
00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:08.759
I think being able to just create a relationship is
590
00:31:08.759 --> 00:31:11.000
super important, so that it's also not on you to
591
00:31:11.079 --> 00:31:14.640
find those resources when your person needs them. Yes, because
592
00:31:14.640 --> 00:31:17.119
there's already so much, right, Like you're already in charge
593
00:31:17.119 --> 00:31:18.960
of so much, and maybe that's something you can put
594
00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:22.000
to us. And then that's kind of one. And then secondly,
595
00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:26.559
to get curious about you as well as your patients,
596
00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:29.000
Like somebody might say, hey, my neck hurts, but being
597
00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:31.359
able to just be like, what do you like? What
598
00:31:31.400 --> 00:31:32.880
do you mean by that? Like share a little bit
599
00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:36.119
more about that, because I think sometimes we assume what
600
00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:39.240
something might mean. Or someone says like, oh I feel sad, right,
601
00:31:39.319 --> 00:31:41.480
and I can say, oh, yeah, I know what sad
602
00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:43.240
feels like, but I know it's sad like feels like
603
00:31:43.279 --> 00:31:45.400
for me, but not what it feels like for you,
604
00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:49.559
And that actually might YouTube number one, relieve some of
605
00:31:49.599 --> 00:31:51.799
the tension for yourself as a practitioner, feel like you
606
00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:54.319
need fix it right away in that moment, but more so,
607
00:31:54.559 --> 00:31:58.759
like to help them help you understand will also empowering
608
00:31:58.799 --> 00:32:01.279
them to understand, like pain is what their struggle is,
609
00:32:01.319 --> 00:32:04.000
what's happening for them. That's what I would start with
610
00:32:04.119 --> 00:32:07.000
of like if you can just get curious and almost
611
00:32:07.279 --> 00:32:10.440
not leave behind everything you know, because that's so freaking important.
612
00:32:10.519 --> 00:32:13.960
But more so to just continue to ask questions about
613
00:32:13.960 --> 00:32:17.720
what you think you might already understand will help make
614
00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:21.720
huge differences really really quickly. I know it has for myself.
615
00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:24.200
Just getting curious and like, yeah, like, what does it
616
00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:25.720
feel like, what does it look like, what does it
617
00:32:25.759 --> 00:32:29.240
sound like? What is that pain like? Paint me a
618
00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:32.200
picture can really help us get even deeper to what's
619
00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:34.000
really going on underneath the surface.
620
00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:37.799
That's huge. I think what you said there about if
621
00:32:37.839 --> 00:32:40.440
someone says they're sad, like, I know what's sad is
622
00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:44.400
for me, I know how that feels in my body,
623
00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:47.400
I know how that feels in my experience, But for
624
00:32:47.480 --> 00:32:49.960
that person it could be something very different. So I
625
00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:52.359
think that's really important, Like ask them to paint you
626
00:32:52.400 --> 00:32:57.680
a picture of what their experience is, and then start
627
00:32:57.720 --> 00:33:02.000
fresh and come into each interact and understanding that this
628
00:33:02.119 --> 00:33:04.799
is a completely different human than the one that you
629
00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:08.319
saw ten fifteen minutes ago, and a completely different human
630
00:33:08.359 --> 00:33:12.160
than yourself, which is incredible. So well, thank you so
631
00:33:12.240 --> 00:33:13.559
much again for taking the time.
632
00:33:14.200 --> 00:33:16.640
I really appreciate it. And again we got some really
633
00:33:16.680 --> 00:33:21.640
great information and takeaways for our healthcare providers today. Again,
634
00:33:21.680 --> 00:33:22.440
thank you so much.
635
00:33:22.799 --> 00:33:23.200
Thank you.
636
00:33:33.920 --> 00:33:37.440
That wraps up our three part conversation with doctor Carolina Shander.
637
00:33:38.240 --> 00:33:41.599
Across this series, doctor Shander helped us think more deeply
638
00:33:41.680 --> 00:33:48.119
about the connection between mental health, physical recovery, performance, identity, burnout,
639
00:33:48.319 --> 00:33:52.400
and the provider patient relationship, and in his final episode,
640
00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:55.559
she gave us a practical reminder that supporting the whole
641
00:33:55.559 --> 00:33:59.359
patient does not mean that every healthcare provider needs to
642
00:33:59.400 --> 00:34:02.920
become a mental health professional. It means we need to
643
00:34:02.920 --> 00:34:07.319
stay curious, ask better questions, listen more carefully, and know
644
00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:11.360
when to bring another trusted provider into the care team.
645
00:34:11.880 --> 00:34:14.920
One of the strongest takeaways from this conversation is that
646
00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:20.920
relationships matter. Whether we're talking about therapy, rehab, performance, or recovery.
647
00:34:21.239 --> 00:34:25.280
Healing is not just about protocols and plans. It's also
648
00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:30.440
about trust, connection, communication, and understanding what pain, injury, or
649
00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:36.000
performance pressure actually means to the person experiencing it. Doctor
650
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:40.360
Shander also reminded us that while AI and digital tools
651
00:34:40.440 --> 00:34:45.119
may help patients and providers find resources more quickly, they
652
00:34:45.159 --> 00:34:48.639
cannot replace the human relationship that sits at the heart
653
00:34:48.760 --> 00:34:53.000
of meaningful mental health care. So as you head back
654
00:34:53.039 --> 00:34:57.199
into practice, consider this year reminder to get curious. When
655
00:34:57.199 --> 00:35:00.400
a patient tells you something hurts, ask what that pain
656
00:35:00.519 --> 00:35:04.679
means to them. When they seem stuck, ask what feels
657
00:35:04.719 --> 00:35:09.039
hard when they're struggling to follow through with your treatment plan,
658
00:35:09.159 --> 00:35:12.760
or maybe they're at home exercises, ask what's getting in
659
00:35:12.800 --> 00:35:16.079
the way. Those questions may open the door to a
660
00:35:16.119 --> 00:35:20.800
deeper understanding of the person behind the symptoms. A big
661
00:35:20.840 --> 00:35:23.920
thank you to doctor Carolina Shander for sharing her expertise,
662
00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:27.960
her perspective, and such practical guidance for clinicians that work
663
00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:31.480
with athletes, performers, and high achieving individuals.
664
00:35:32.119 --> 00:35:33.880
As always, thank you for listening to.
665
00:35:33.840 --> 00:35:36.880
The Factor podcast. If the series is helpful, a share
666
00:35:36.880 --> 00:35:39.239
it with a colleague, coach, or provider who works with
667
00:35:39.320 --> 00:35:45.000
athletes or patients navigating pain, performance recovery, or identity shifts.
668
00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:50.119
We so appreciate you and any of those likes, follows,
669
00:35:50.239 --> 00:35:53.199
and sharing of episodes helps to grow our network and
670
00:35:53.320 --> 00:35:58.039
helps our content reach more healthcare providers like you. Until
671
00:35:58.079 --> 00:36:01.519
next time, keep learning, refining your systems, and keep raising
672
00:36:01.559 --> 00:36:08.159
the standard of care. We'll see then. Hey, guys, if
673
00:36:08.159 --> 00:36:10.039
you like what you heard today, I encourage you to
674
00:36:10.119 --> 00:36:14.280
visit our website at Factor hyphenstore dot com that's spelled
675
00:36:14.559 --> 00:36:19.800
fa k tr hyphenstore dot com to find out more
676
00:36:19.840 --> 00:36:21.800
information about all that we have to offer.
677
00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:22.960
We have a variety of.
678
00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:25.920
Online offerings as well as our hands on Factor Rehab
679
00:36:25.960 --> 00:36:28.920
System course scheduled in cities around the globe. Be sure
680
00:36:28.920 --> 00:36:31.639
to also check out our event calendar and bookmark any
681
00:36:31.679 --> 00:36:34.920
of these upcoming live webinar dates coming up in the near.
682
00:36:34.760 --> 00:36:36.280
Future so you can join us live.
683
00:36:36.400 --> 00:36:38.840
And of course, the biggest compliment we can receive is
684
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for you to help us spread the word to your friends, colleagues,
685
00:36:41.840 --> 00:36:44.519
and classmates. You'll find all the important links as well
686
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as info about our sponsors in the show notes, so
687
00:36:46.960 --> 00:36:48.079
be sure to check those out.
1
00:00:01.960 --> 00:00:04.799
Welcome to The Factor podcast, where we talk about the
2
00:00:04.839 --> 00:00:07.599
stuff they didn't teach you in school, how to grow
3
00:00:07.639 --> 00:00:10.839
your practice, refine your clinical skills, and get better results
4
00:00:10.839 --> 00:00:13.759
for your patients. We're here to help you navigate the
5
00:00:13.800 --> 00:00:17.399
real world challenges of being a healthcare provider, from delivering
6
00:00:17.440 --> 00:00:20.359
top notch patient care to running a business that doesn't
7
00:00:20.440 --> 00:00:23.160
run you into the ground. Whether you're fresh out of
8
00:00:23.199 --> 00:00:26.760
school or scaling your practice, we're diving into effective, cutting
9
00:00:26.920 --> 00:00:30.800
edge treatments to get patients better, faster. We'll also talk
10
00:00:30.800 --> 00:00:33.759
about business strategies and tactics to help you work smarter
11
00:00:33.880 --> 00:00:37.759
and not harder, and the mindset shifts required to thrive
12
00:00:37.880 --> 00:00:40.280
as a top performer in your field so you can
13
00:00:40.320 --> 00:00:43.600
build a career you love without burning out. If you're
14
00:00:43.640 --> 00:00:47.119
ready to learn what works and what doesn't from leading experts,
15
00:00:47.200 --> 00:00:51.759
industry innovators, and respective clinicians across a wide range of specialties,
16
00:00:52.119 --> 00:00:53.320
you're in the right place.
17
00:00:53.119 --> 00:00:54.679
My friend. Let's dive in.
18
00:01:15.079 --> 00:01:18.040
Welcome back to the Factor podcast, where we rich the
19
00:01:18.040 --> 00:01:22.599
gap between rehab performance and real world clinical practice. I'm
20
00:01:22.640 --> 00:01:25.439
your host, Jessica Riddle, and today we're closing out our
21
00:01:25.480 --> 00:01:30.519
three part conversation with doctor Carolina Shander, licensed psychologist and
22
00:01:30.560 --> 00:01:35.680
certified mental performance consultant who specializes in sport and performance psychology.
23
00:01:36.799 --> 00:01:40.040
Throughout this series, we've talked about the whole human behind
24
00:01:40.079 --> 00:01:46.560
the athlete, the role of identity, mental health, pain recovery, burnout, agency,
25
00:01:46.680 --> 00:01:50.920
and communication in clinical care and performance. In this final
26
00:01:50.959 --> 00:01:55.439
part of the conversation, we move into resources, referral pathways,
27
00:01:55.480 --> 00:01:58.799
and what providers can actually do when they recognize that
28
00:01:58.879 --> 00:02:01.959
a patient may need support beyond the physical care plan.
29
00:02:03.280 --> 00:02:06.799
Doctor Shander shares practical places to look for mental health
30
00:02:06.840 --> 00:02:10.400
and performance psychology providers, how to think about finding the
31
00:02:10.479 --> 00:02:13.719
right fit, and why building a relationship with a trusted
32
00:02:13.759 --> 00:02:18.000
provider in your area can make it easier to support patients.
33
00:02:17.560 --> 00:02:18.800
When those needs arise.
34
00:02:20.120 --> 00:02:24.039
We also talk today about accessible resources for patients who
35
00:02:24.240 --> 00:02:26.800
may not have the financial means for one on one care,
36
00:02:27.639 --> 00:02:31.879
including support groups, low cost options, books, apps, and community
37
00:02:31.879 --> 00:02:35.479
based resources. And finally, we'll touch on the role of
38
00:02:35.520 --> 00:02:38.759
AI and mental health and performance care, where it may
39
00:02:38.800 --> 00:02:42.919
be useful for education or finding resources, but why it
40
00:02:43.039 --> 00:02:46.879
can't fully replace the human connection that makes therapy so meaningful.
41
00:02:48.039 --> 00:02:51.479
This episode is a practical and thoughtful close to a
42
00:02:51.560 --> 00:02:55.560
conversation every provider should be having. How do we treat
43
00:02:55.560 --> 00:02:58.319
the person in front of us, not just the injury
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that they walked in with. Let's dive into part three
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of my conversation with doctor Carolina Shander.
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What are some practices that you would recommend for healthcare
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providers to do for themselves to prevent burnout and to
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help them be healthy and be in a place where
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they can continue to give at such a high level.
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You just said something super important about burnout or even like,
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let's say, challengees sometimes because we're so a driven but
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also we're doing so many things and supporting so many people,
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like we don't notice it in ourselves. And so something
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I like to ask people is when do you know
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that you're performing at your best and then be able
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to scale that back to like when do you know
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that you're performing just at like meets expectations and that
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you're doing just enough right to get by? And if
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those are the things that are different and you're not
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kind of lining up to those, then maybe you start
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to ask yourself questions of like, Okay, maybe there's something
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I need to shift and change. But a big part
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is awareness and also prevention so like being aware and
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also kind of doing some of these mental skills or
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mental performance skills for prevention are the two things that
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make people really elite, at least from my experience, because
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we got to know ourselves super well, and then we
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also got to look at things in a way from
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prevention and not just reaction. And so for practitioners, it's
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about how do we implement breaks and not breaks like
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self care like oh, take two weeks off or what
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not to recover and rejuvenate. But what does it look
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like to take fifteen minutes to ourselves before we start
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our workday, literally just sitting in our car to be
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able to either meet ourselves where we're at and ask
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ourselves like what do I need right now? Or to
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jam out in our car and give ourselves just I guess,
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the space to just be and feel whatever we want to, y'all.
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I also recommend being able to have like a regular
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check in with like how am I doing? Maybe it's
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on a Sunday, but maybe not, it's Sunday scaries too,
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but like maybe at some point during the week that
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you know and you can depend on giving yourself the
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opportunity to not have to be available to anybody else
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but yourself. I think the helping profession and including myself,
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we get wrapped up in how helpful I can be
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to somebody else versus that I also have to be
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helpful to myself. I also think about what are the
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kind of three non negotiables that I, as a human
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have each day to make myself be able to function
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at just like a baseline, Like for me, it's some
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kind of movement at least a cup of coffee, and
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then a favorite snack, like I have to have some
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kind of favorite snack every day that I look forward
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to because that gives me that like jolt and excitement
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of like, Okay, I'm not just like eating you know,
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my egg bites or like my fruit or anything like that,
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but something that's going to give me that extra jolt
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in the afternoon that I can depend on. I think
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the big part about burn is there's no kind of
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anticipation of relief. And if we can build that in
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throughout our day, within our week, within our month, we're
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more likely to be able to feel like, Okay, I'm
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honoring what I need and what I feel right now,
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and I can be okay.
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And I've heard that some too, when it comes to
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like the even the neuroscience behind motivation and behind fulfillment
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in your career or even in other areas of life.
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Your brain needs novelty and your brain to look forward to.
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And I think one of the things that you said
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was so important is that it doesn't have to be
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a two week vacation because oftentimes, especially if you are
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a business owner or a parent, or someone who has
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a heavy amount of responsibility, you're caring. You can't just
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peace out. But if you can build in little things
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like having a favorite snack, like having something to look
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forward to in your day to day or even something
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once a week, that can be a really crucial component.
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And I think you know, I would venture to guess
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even asking your patience about that too, Like do you
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have something on a regular basis that you do just
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for you? Like how are you feeding yourself? Not just
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from a food standpoint, but how are you like feeding
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your soul right now? What are you doing to incorporate
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something positive in your daily life?
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Yeah, and having that awareness of how and what fuels
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your soul right Like, I think something that's really effective
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sometimes for people is this idea of just being a
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little bit more mindful and aware, right, Like, so can
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we slow things down? Can I pay attention to Okay,
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when I drive up to my office, do I just
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shut the car off really quickly and run out and
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get in the office, or do I take a second
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and like take a couple deep breasts, and do I
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make sure I have my water and my coffee and
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my snack, and like, okay, I have what I need
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today and give myself I guess that promise that I
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have everything that I need today, or maybe just the
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awareness that I don't, and that's okay. But to slow
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down just a little bit, I mean that awareness just
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allows us to feel so much more comfortable and safe
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over time, because our body is prepared for us to
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do so. If we're constantly, for example, running like you'll
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be running from a bear forever, versus like, oh, I
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have a hiding spot, I'm able to take a sit
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down and be able to rest and be okay. I mean,
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our body and our nervous system responds so much better
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to promises of rest and recovery than it does to
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a never ending goal that we don't know when we're
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going to get there and achieve.
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I know, a lot of high achievers or driven individuals,
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and I can even speak from my own experience, sometimes
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have feelings of guilt. So take even if it's small,
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you have guilt because there's a never ending to do list. Yeah,
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I feel like, especially a lot of times, caregivers or
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parents experience this where it's like, how do I take
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time for me when they need so much? Do you
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feel like it is helpful to you plan or to
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schedule these instances of rest or these instances of feeding
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your soul so to speak?
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Is that a better way to kind of counteract that
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guilt that inevitably comes from that if they at least
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know it's coming, or if you can at least plan
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it or set it aside, then maybe that takes away
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some of the weight of the guilt of all the
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other things that are stacking up while I'm taking this time.
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I mean, first of all, I would be really curious
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of like where that guilt comes from, because I mean,
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it is pretty common, but where it comes from is
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different for different kinds of people. But I think pre
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scheduled is always important because there's that dependability and almost
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like accountability or responsibility you create for yourself as well
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as the fact that like, you know it's there and
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you can you show up to eight am on a
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Thursday and you know that that's your half hour walk
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or your time that you have for yourself. For sure,
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I think what is important, at least for me to
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assess an access is what kind of how do we
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build in this kind of time and rest that it
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actually makes sense to you for you to be able
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to do it and commit to it in function. So
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I don't know about you, but there have been moments
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in my life where I've taken a day off and
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I end up doing more on my day off than
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I did on my work day because I put all
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of my other things on my day off because I
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feel like I need to do them, versus to be
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able to start to understand similar to like an athlete,
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right of like, rest isn't just about doing nothing, but
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it's about like, Okay, how do I give myself peace
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for a minute. How do I reset my nervous system
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to be able to fire on all cylinders tomorrow and
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to make it feel important for me and to make
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it feel important for that practitioner or that athlete that wow, okay,
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I took that thirty minutes, and maybe I was a
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little bit more anxious the rest of the day because
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I felt like I could have done something else then,
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But dang I slept better, or like my stomach hurt
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a little bit less, or I wasn't as grabby to
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my husband. Like being able to also help somebody build
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the awareness of what the effect of that rest is
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is actually probably going to help us be able to
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schedule it a little bit more often or a little
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bit more so. To answer your question, yes, but there's
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some other caveats in.
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There, I would add absolutely, And I understand too that
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as a healthcare provider and as someone that is a healer,
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I'm sure this is also very true to healthcare providers
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like yourself that are in the mental health field. You
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are in a position to where you're coming alongside these
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patients in their healing journey, and you're carrying a little
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bit of a load, right, whether that means that you're
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using your hands on them to treat their physical body,
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whether that means you're sitting down and you're having deep
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conversations with them and kind of unpacking some things from
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a mental or emotional standpoint. How important has having some
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type of ritual for you as a provider, maybe in
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between patient visits, maybe at the end of the day,
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to kind of reset for yourself, because I know, especially
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people who are very empathetic, you feel a lot and
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sometimes you feel the emotions of other people, or you
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feel the energy coming from other people. And many times
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when you are seeing people in pain, they may be
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at some experienced some of the worst times of their life.
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How important have you found having some type of ritual
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or practice that you do on a regular basis to
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kind of I don't mean to use the cheesy word
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like cleanse yourself, but like, how do you get it
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off of you? How do you get that negative energy
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or that those emotions that this other person is experiencing
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that sometimes may even churn up things within yourself. What
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do you recommend to make sure that these providers are
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kind of able to reset themselves and their own nervous
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system after those interactions.
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That's a good question, and I'm smiling because a big
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part of my work is to feel the motions in
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the room, especially when somebody can't, and so being able
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to hold that and work with it and access it
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is massive. And I didn't realize how important it was
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to I guess, like take care of myself until I
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don't know, like five years ago. Where part of the
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answer to your question is being able and open to changing,
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Like what I need to do what I've noticed for
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myself when I have a really hard day or a
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day that just feels like wow, like it was really
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good one but really active and there was a lot
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at play and there was so much kind of work
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going on, I actually need to drive home in silence.
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I need to give myself the silence to not call
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and make appointments or to call somebody that I need
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to talk to that I've wanted to talk to for
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a while, but to just give myself the forty minute
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drive to see what comes up for me because I
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haven't had actually the silence to do so that I
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found important. I find movement really helpful. So we work
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on a fifty minute window and so zero to fifteen,
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and so then I have that ten minutes to grab
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a snack, pee, do whatever. But what I found for
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myself that's really important, which is also super like it's
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shown in the research of changing position. So I might
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be sitting in my desk chair like on a video call,
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and then I'll literally lay down on my floor just
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for a minute and just to be able to change
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like my body position, to be able to be like, oh,
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I'm in a different place and be able to reset
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for the next person. Or I go sit out, or
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I go sit outside just for literally thirty seconds to
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get some vitamin D, but to just change my position
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in my environment, because our body needs some kind of reminder,
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hey I'm okay, Hey I need a little reset as
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well as my own self talk of like being able
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to create safety and predictability for myself that yeah, I'm
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feeling a lot right now, but I will have some
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time to decompress it and relax when I drive home,
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being able to remind myself of that time that I
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have kind of set aside for myself to give permission
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to feel whatever I need to feel. And then that
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might change at different times, at different times in my
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life and at different times in my career. I actually
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I needed to go do something physically like hard to
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feel like I can work through some of those emotions.
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So for example, like I would I'd always joke if
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I wasn't a psychologist, I would be a soul cycle
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instructor because I love to like just like swing to
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the beat of the music in a dark room where
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nobody can see me and I can just feel whatever
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I need to feel. And that is something that I
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learned about myself. But that's because I got super curious
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of like what actually helps me, what makes me feel
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like me rejuvenated, And so I practiced and tried a
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lot of different things, even if they didn't apply to me,
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Like some of my friends do some like meditation, and
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I struggle with that, so that wasn't what I did,
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or like they really love to listen to audiobooks, It's like,
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that's not my thing either. But to give yourself permission
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to try different things, even if they're a little bit
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more unconventional, I.
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Think that's huge. Is about figuring out what works for you.
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I'm very much like you, like I like to work
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things out physically. I have a peloton because we don't
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have a soul cycle here.
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And I really wish we did because it was.
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Yeah, I mean it honestly, like that saved me going
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through COVID and like time when there were big feelings
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and you didn't really know what to do with them,
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and it's interesting that you said that about meditation, because
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I know that there's much great research about the benefits
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of meditation and mindfulness and breath work. If you are
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a person who doesn't do the sit in silence thing, well,
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what do you recommend to still have that mindfulness practice,
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like is there is it good to have like mantra
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or guided meditation, is it good to have breath work?
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And what would you recommend as kind of like at
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a minimum, if you could do this much when it
315
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comes to meditation or mindfulness every day, it can be
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impactful for your mental mental health.
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So don't completely quote me, but I think it's the
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research would show that like five minutes a day of
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some kind of meditation mindfulness and that can look on
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various levels, actually improves like outcomes I think like ten
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to twenty percent, whether that's mental health outcome or performance outcomes.
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There's a lot of research about injury and imagery to
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be able to if you're doing about five minutes a day,
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there's about I think ten percent of an increase in healing,
325
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especially with ACL recovery. But I have to go look
326
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at the numbers again, and I can quote that for myself,
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but there is a lot of data on that. I
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think what's important is I'm not a sit in silence
329
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kind of human and meditate, but I love mindful walking.
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There are also ways that you can incorporate mindfulness and
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meditation into the things that you're doing, whether that's walking
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or running or cooking. It's about really figuring out and
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finding what works best for you. There's a couple apps
334
00:17:38.599 --> 00:17:42.200
that are really useful. Let me see if I can
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pull up my phone, but I think it's Healthy Minds.
336
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I think it just changed into human is one of
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the apps that they have various a voices which are
338
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different for different people and feel a lot more connecting
339
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or not. And they last from like five minutes to
340
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thirty minutes. But there's tons of stuff actually on YouTube
341
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that you can implement some breathwork and mindfulness into stuff
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you already do. Right and again, kind of part of
343
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it is how how to find something that you're going
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to commit to and do often that it's a part
345
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of your practice and who you are, right, it's not
346
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just about sitting in silence and I don't know is
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dissociating and staring out into the distance, But more so
348
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like how do I give myself the space to relax
349
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and give myself some peace. And so, honestly, five minutes
350
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a day is enough. Some people love more, some people don't,
351
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But I think five minutes a day is really great.
352
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That's huge, And I think that's a great little tip
353
00:18:32.759 --> 00:18:35.680
or takeaway for the healthcare providers that I'll be listening
354
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is if you have someone that is recovering from whatever
355
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they're dealing with from a physical standpoint, if you can
356
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provide them with resources, if you can make recommendations about
357
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other ways that they can improve their healing or impact
358
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their healing in a positive way. So you mentioned that
359
00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:56.039
there are a number of different apps that can help
360
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with mindfulness and meditation. Another question that I definitely wanted
361
00:18:59.880 --> 00:19:03.759
to cover today is if I'm a healthcare provider and
362
00:19:04.119 --> 00:19:07.200
I realized that my patient may need to see someone
363
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in the mental health space, what would you recommend in
364
00:19:11.640 --> 00:19:15.279
terms of like what should they be looking for as
365
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far as finding someone in their area to refer patients to.
366
00:19:19.119 --> 00:19:22.720
Are there different websites directories like where do I go
367
00:19:22.759 --> 00:19:24.839
and where do I find someone that will be a
368
00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:26.319
great resource for my patient?
369
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Well, there's I think a lot of different places that
370
00:19:31.400 --> 00:19:34.240
you can search right, Good old Chad and Claude can
371
00:19:34.279 --> 00:19:36.519
do that for you a little bit too. I think,
372
00:19:36.559 --> 00:19:38.119
first of all, it depends on if you're going to
373
00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:41.839
be using insurance or not. And my favorite thing to
374
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utilize first is like going on psychology today and just
375
00:19:46.279 --> 00:19:49.640
kind of putting in yeah, if they're specifications for your area,
376
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and then literally reading people's bios and having conversations. So
377
00:19:55.400 --> 00:19:57.759
I know that is a little bit tedious, but having
378
00:19:57.839 --> 00:20:00.519
conversations with people and seeing if like, wow, is this
379
00:20:00.599 --> 00:20:03.359
somebody that I can connect with, Whether that's because I'm
380
00:20:03.359 --> 00:20:06.720
sending somebody a patient or this is even for myself
381
00:20:06.839 --> 00:20:08.279
right to be able to see like, can I have
382
00:20:08.319 --> 00:20:11.119
a conversation with this person? Do we connect? What kind
383
00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:13.480
of vibes do I feel? I'm a big vibes girl.
384
00:20:13.720 --> 00:20:15.960
I feel like there's a there's a gut kind of
385
00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:18.400
inclination and connection, and to be able to listen to
386
00:20:18.440 --> 00:20:20.519
that is really important. I tell this to people all
387
00:20:20.519 --> 00:20:22.680
the time. I can know a lot of things and
388
00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:24.400
I have a lot of information in my brain, but
389
00:20:24.440 --> 00:20:27.160
if you can't connect with me, then like that's okay,
390
00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:29.200
and I'm not your provider and I will find you
391
00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:31.279
somebody else. That is going to be really great. I
392
00:20:31.319 --> 00:20:35.799
think that's also my biggest recommendation, just starting somewhere and
393
00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:38.799
creating a relationship with a provider who then can also
394
00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:42.000
send you other people's names. There is a especially for
395
00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:46.599
sport performance people. There is a couple different places to look.
396
00:20:46.759 --> 00:20:50.680
The APA Division forty seven is for Sport and Performance
397
00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:54.759
Psychology within the American Psychological Association. That is going to
398
00:20:54.759 --> 00:20:56.799
have a directory of some people that are in the
399
00:20:56.839 --> 00:20:59.720
field as well as asps or people who with the
400
00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:04.559
credital CMPC for the Certified Mental Performance Consultants. Those are
401
00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:06.880
going to be the places that have a directory of
402
00:21:07.039 --> 00:21:09.279
who has the credentials to be able to work with
403
00:21:09.279 --> 00:21:12.200
sport and performance as well as some kind of clinical background,
404
00:21:12.359 --> 00:21:16.359
and honestly reaching out to them and developing a relationship
405
00:21:16.440 --> 00:21:18.759
is going to be the first step as a practitioner,
406
00:21:19.039 --> 00:21:20.960
and then they can direct you to somebody that might
407
00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:23.079
be a better fit, whether that's because of location, because
408
00:21:23.079 --> 00:21:25.799
of our licensing, or just in terms of fit and
409
00:21:25.880 --> 00:21:28.359
knowledge of what the person has going on for them.
410
00:21:29.839 --> 00:21:33.559
I know that within many of the professionals that we
411
00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:35.599
work with or the professions that we serve, I should
412
00:21:35.640 --> 00:21:38.519
say we have options for what we call it travel
413
00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:43.039
to treat. So you might be licensed in only one state,
414
00:21:43.160 --> 00:21:45.960
but if you are working on behalf of a sports team,
415
00:21:46.039 --> 00:21:47.880
you have the ability to travel with them and treat
416
00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:50.799
in other states. Is there something similar in your feel.
417
00:21:51.079 --> 00:21:53.000
Yeah, if you are, Like if I were to be
418
00:21:53.079 --> 00:21:56.079
working with a protein, then I can treat obviously if
419
00:21:56.119 --> 00:21:58.720
we're traveling in the states, but where you're based is
420
00:21:58.759 --> 00:22:02.160
where your primary license should be as a psychologist. There's
421
00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:05.839
also a credential called side Pact which is currently right
422
00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:09.839
now serving forty three states. So we're able to do
423
00:22:09.920 --> 00:22:13.480
telehealth across those states and be in those states when
424
00:22:13.519 --> 00:22:16.880
treating individuals, and so that's really really helpful for us
425
00:22:16.920 --> 00:22:20.079
and allows us to reach a pretty big population that
426
00:22:20.119 --> 00:22:21.039
I'm really grateful for.
427
00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:23.200
Yeah, that's incredible.
428
00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:25.559
One of the funnel questions that I'll ask because I
429
00:22:25.559 --> 00:22:28.079
know this has been an incredible conversation, But you have
430
00:22:28.240 --> 00:22:29.440
patients to get back to us.
431
00:22:29.440 --> 00:22:31.000
I want to be respectful of.
432
00:22:30.920 --> 00:22:35.519
Your time if I have a patient who does need resources,
433
00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:40.200
and unfortunately I wish and I think this is just
434
00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:44.160
my personal opinion. I feel like if our healthcare system
435
00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:48.920
would figure out a way to have more access to
436
00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:52.880
mental health services, make them more affordable for more people.
437
00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:57.160
That could absolutely change our world. But that's a whole
438
00:22:57.200 --> 00:23:00.680
different conversation there. But if I have a patient who's
439
00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:05.279
concerned about the cost, maybe they don't have mental health
440
00:23:05.319 --> 00:23:08.519
coverage on their insurance, maybe they are not in a
441
00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:13.039
financial position to add a lot more onto their regular
442
00:23:13.079 --> 00:23:15.599
expenses when it comes to seeing a mental health provider.
443
00:23:16.400 --> 00:23:18.599
You mentioned there are some apps that could be helpful
444
00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:24.200
for things like meditation, mindfulness. What other resources would you
445
00:23:24.279 --> 00:23:27.759
recommend that healthcare providers should just kind of have saved
446
00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:30.240
as bookmarks in their browser or kind of have a
447
00:23:30.279 --> 00:23:32.279
file with their front office to say, you know what,
448
00:23:33.079 --> 00:23:38.240
if we have patients that need help and or need
449
00:23:38.279 --> 00:23:41.319
to even just have a little bit more support, but
450
00:23:42.039 --> 00:23:44.240
if we want to be able to give them options
451
00:23:44.319 --> 00:23:46.440
so that if they're not in a financial position to
452
00:23:46.519 --> 00:23:49.839
seek out a provider for one on one care, what
453
00:23:49.839 --> 00:23:53.240
would you recommend or what type of resources are out
454
00:23:53.279 --> 00:23:57.160
there that can help those that don't necessarily have the
455
00:23:57.160 --> 00:24:00.680
financial means to see someone want on one from a
456
00:24:00.680 --> 00:24:05.160
counseling standpoint, but maybe still at least need to start
457
00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:09.559
having some type of support in some way that's accessible.
458
00:24:10.839 --> 00:24:13.279
Yeah, can you ask a really really great question. I
459
00:24:13.279 --> 00:24:17.279
think from like a support performance space, there's probably a
460
00:24:17.319 --> 00:24:19.319
couple more things that I can share and I can
461
00:24:19.319 --> 00:24:21.039
say a couple of those books. From just like a
462
00:24:21.079 --> 00:24:25.279
clinical mental health space. I mean, there are some resources
463
00:24:25.400 --> 00:24:29.920
on the NAMI website, the National Mental Health Alliance website,
464
00:24:30.039 --> 00:24:32.359
they have twenty four to seven support. There's also some
465
00:24:32.359 --> 00:24:35.519
support groups there I also know of, like for example,
466
00:24:35.640 --> 00:24:38.599
like y'all in Houston. They through a couple of the hospitals.
467
00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:42.000
I would always encourage kind of googling with the hospitals.
468
00:24:42.039 --> 00:24:44.519
They have some groups depending on what the person might
469
00:24:44.559 --> 00:24:47.960
be dealing with, whether that's with chronic pain or postpartum
470
00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:49.839
or they have a couple of different ones for some
471
00:24:49.880 --> 00:24:51.960
of the major hospitals that are free, which which is
472
00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:54.519
helpful as well as virtual. It depends on the human
473
00:24:54.920 --> 00:24:57.359
like what their challenges are, they're what they're working with.
474
00:24:57.559 --> 00:25:00.759
Also in terms of like eating disorders, like rc SO
475
00:25:00.839 --> 00:25:04.640
that Eating Disorder Recovery Center has a couple locations throughout
476
00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:07.759
the United States and they have some like virtual resources
477
00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:10.920
for people too, are that are free or low cost.
478
00:25:11.119 --> 00:25:14.039
I think another just like pinpoint or thing to think
479
00:25:14.039 --> 00:25:18.799
about is there are low cost fee services for student clinicians,
480
00:25:18.920 --> 00:25:21.720
and so that may not always be an ideal option,
481
00:25:21.839 --> 00:25:24.160
or somebody might feel some kind of way about that
482
00:25:24.279 --> 00:25:26.319
to see a student clinician. But I always once a
483
00:25:26.359 --> 00:25:28.640
student clinician, and people took a chance on me, and
484
00:25:28.680 --> 00:25:31.160
that just means you are supervised by either a licensed
485
00:25:31.200 --> 00:25:34.319
professional counselor or a licensed psychologist, and those fees are
486
00:25:34.359 --> 00:25:36.720
usually reduced, and so your care is still being taken
487
00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:39.559
care of by somebody who is well seasoned in the field,
488
00:25:39.640 --> 00:25:41.960
but it is to give practice to the student who
489
00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:44.960
is learning how to be in the field. And those
490
00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:48.359
I mean, there's lots of Facebook groups that are kind
491
00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:51.720
of servicing those needs, and so I would look up
492
00:25:51.759 --> 00:25:55.079
low cost services in your area for student clinicians, and
493
00:25:55.119 --> 00:25:57.279
so that can be an option for some of those
494
00:25:57.279 --> 00:25:59.400
who want one on one care at a more cost.
495
00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:03.200
In terms of like books or like apps for just
496
00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:07.039
clinical mental health, I'm I mean there's a range of those,
497
00:26:07.559 --> 00:26:10.880
honestly that I really would struggle to name off the
498
00:26:10.920 --> 00:26:12.640
top of my head. But when it comes to like
499
00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:15.880
books for sport and performance, I would start with like
500
00:26:16.119 --> 00:26:20.119
Peak Performance by Steve Magnus and somebody else. Mindset by
501
00:26:20.359 --> 00:26:23.839
Carol dweck Range is a really good book. It's a
502
00:26:23.880 --> 00:26:27.119
green mint cover. I forgot what the author's name is.
503
00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:30.319
And then also the Mindful Athlete is a really great
504
00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:33.319
place to start. And so those would be places that
505
00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:37.160
I would begin with regarding kind of receiving some additional support.
506
00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:40.359
But I think something that I always encourage. I know
507
00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:44.000
people may struggle financially and it's a huge gap in
508
00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:48.960
our field, and my always kind of recommendation is to ask, like, Hey,
509
00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:52.519
are there any low cost options or services or abilities
510
00:26:52.519 --> 00:26:54.559
to do so, because I know I'm willing, like I
511
00:26:54.599 --> 00:26:56.359
am in private practice, and there is a fee that
512
00:26:56.400 --> 00:26:59.799
I charge, but I am usually almost always willing to
513
00:26:59.839 --> 00:27:03.480
make some kind of change for somebody who needs the
514
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:06.160
support or wants the support, as long as it feels
515
00:27:06.240 --> 00:27:08.160
right to the both of us. And so I like
516
00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:11.480
to have that kind of conversation upfront and be able
517
00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:13.400
to say, like, I want to help you, and so
518
00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:16.359
what might that look like feasibility wise, And so I
519
00:27:16.359 --> 00:27:18.720
would always ask. It may feel really vulnerable. I know
520
00:27:18.759 --> 00:27:20.039
that was a hard thing for me when I was
521
00:27:20.079 --> 00:27:22.079
growing up, to ask for some kind of lower feed
522
00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:24.000
but I would ask because a lot of us in
523
00:27:24.039 --> 00:27:26.000
the field. They're more willing to do that than might
524
00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:26.640
be expected.
525
00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:31.480
Yeah, no, that's huge. Another kind of final question for you,
526
00:27:31.599 --> 00:27:34.359
I'm very curious to hear, and I've asked many of
527
00:27:34.400 --> 00:27:37.640
the experts that I've spoken with in different fields, how
528
00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:42.519
do you feel like the AI revolution that we're in
529
00:27:42.599 --> 00:27:46.000
right now is going to impact your field if you
530
00:27:46.039 --> 00:27:48.200
were to look ahead the next three to five years,
531
00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:51.799
how is it already kind of disrupting some of the
532
00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:55.160
work that you do in a positive or negative way?
533
00:27:56.000 --> 00:27:58.599
I mean in a positive way, right, Like Chad and
534
00:27:59.160 --> 00:28:02.799
Claude can give you some resources and some support or
535
00:28:02.799 --> 00:28:07.240
some like books like for certain challenges and quicker than
536
00:28:07.319 --> 00:28:09.319
probably you can just google. And so I think that
537
00:28:09.559 --> 00:28:11.799
AI can be helpful in that kind of way. Can
538
00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:14.519
also find providers quicker than just like a psychology search
539
00:28:14.920 --> 00:28:17.160
might do. And so that's kind of nice. But I
540
00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:20.240
think the challenge in my hesitation just like I mean,
541
00:28:20.359 --> 00:28:24.039
there are resources for clinical mental health, but nothing replaces therapy,
542
00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:27.240
Nothing replaces that relational bond and that ability to beat
543
00:28:27.279 --> 00:28:30.720
with somebody in the trenches and have this understanding of
544
00:28:30.759 --> 00:28:34.759
the whole human And that is probably my biggest qualm
545
00:28:34.759 --> 00:28:39.119
with it, because my belief is that therapy is about
546
00:28:39.200 --> 00:28:43.519
understanding the person, their attachments, the relational behaviors, their personality,
547
00:28:43.519 --> 00:28:45.880
and how they fit within a system, and then that
548
00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:49.079
system actually plays out between me and the patient. Whatever
549
00:28:49.200 --> 00:28:51.759
that like their patterns and behavior are in the outside world,
550
00:28:51.759 --> 00:28:54.400
that happens for me in the room. And so if
551
00:28:54.400 --> 00:28:58.480
we can't have that in our relationship and you're just
552
00:28:59.119 --> 00:29:01.200
the patient is looking for or that within the computer,
553
00:29:01.720 --> 00:29:04.079
it's not going to produce the same results, and it's
554
00:29:04.079 --> 00:29:06.599
going to be a little bit it's going to be
555
00:29:06.640 --> 00:29:09.079
a lot less effective, and it's going to feel pretty cold.
556
00:29:09.359 --> 00:29:12.359
And I think that's the difference between being with people
557
00:29:12.559 --> 00:29:14.599
and just being able to look for some of the
558
00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:18.359
reassurance and support with AI. I think another really great
559
00:29:18.440 --> 00:29:22.839
part of AI is being able to help our field
560
00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:26.960
create stuff like power points and whatnot. So maybe simplifies
561
00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:30.079
some of those things for us, but I think it's
562
00:29:30.079 --> 00:29:32.839
getting in the way of this human connection piece that
563
00:29:32.960 --> 00:29:36.519
is invaluable and is actually creating a pretty big barrier
564
00:29:36.599 --> 00:29:39.319
for people wanting to come in because of the vulnerability
565
00:29:39.359 --> 00:29:41.680
of sitting with somebody, despite it being the thing that
566
00:29:41.720 --> 00:29:44.599
actually probably changes their experience.
567
00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:48.440
The most absolutely well, thank you so much. This has
568
00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:53.039
been incredibly educational and informative. As kind of a final
569
00:29:53.119 --> 00:29:57.079
question and one key thing to lead with our audience today,
570
00:29:57.400 --> 00:30:01.559
based upon all of your education, your experience so far
571
00:30:01.640 --> 00:30:04.039
in your field, if you could wave a magic wand
572
00:30:04.799 --> 00:30:10.559
and in part like one key takeaway to healthcare providers
573
00:30:11.160 --> 00:30:14.119
that are either someone who's been in practice for decades
574
00:30:14.240 --> 00:30:17.519
or somebody that's just getting started, Like, what is one
575
00:30:17.680 --> 00:30:21.519
key takeaway or one thought that you'd like to leave
576
00:30:21.559 --> 00:30:24.880
the audience with that they can take into practice tomorrow
577
00:30:24.960 --> 00:30:27.720
and really start implementing. I know we've talked a lot
578
00:30:27.759 --> 00:30:30.400
about things that they need to look for, different things
579
00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:33.759
that they may need to incorporate into their practice in
580
00:30:33.880 --> 00:30:38.240
terms of their typical patient experience. But is there anything
581
00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:41.240
else that you feel like could be just something that
582
00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:44.920
they really need to either seek out to learn a
583
00:30:44.920 --> 00:30:48.880
little bit more about or maybe just have a better
584
00:30:48.920 --> 00:30:51.799
awareness of going into their next patient visit.
585
00:30:52.759 --> 00:30:56.039
I mean, number one, I think creating a relationship with
586
00:30:56.079 --> 00:30:58.920
a practitioner in your area I would be really important
587
00:30:58.920 --> 00:31:02.000
to be able to just get more information about whether
588
00:31:02.039 --> 00:31:06.440
that's mental health related topics or any kind of performance skills.
589
00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:08.759
I think being able to just create a relationship is
590
00:31:08.759 --> 00:31:11.000
super important, so that it's also not on you to
591
00:31:11.079 --> 00:31:14.640
find those resources when your person needs them. Yes, because
592
00:31:14.640 --> 00:31:17.119
there's already so much, right, Like you're already in charge
593
00:31:17.119 --> 00:31:18.960
of so much, and maybe that's something you can put
594
00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:22.000
to us. And then that's kind of one. And then secondly,
595
00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:26.559
to get curious about you as well as your patients,
596
00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:29.000
Like somebody might say, hey, my neck hurts, but being
597
00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:31.359
able to just be like, what do you like? What
598
00:31:31.400 --> 00:31:32.880
do you mean by that? Like share a little bit
599
00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:36.119
more about that, because I think sometimes we assume what
600
00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:39.240
something might mean. Or someone says like, oh I feel sad, right,
601
00:31:39.319 --> 00:31:41.480
and I can say, oh, yeah, I know what sad
602
00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:43.240
feels like, but I know it's sad like feels like
603
00:31:43.279 --> 00:31:45.400
for me, but not what it feels like for you,
604
00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:49.559
And that actually might YouTube number one, relieve some of
605
00:31:49.599 --> 00:31:51.799
the tension for yourself as a practitioner, feel like you
606
00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:54.319
need fix it right away in that moment, but more so,
607
00:31:54.559 --> 00:31:58.759
like to help them help you understand will also empowering
608
00:31:58.799 --> 00:32:01.279
them to understand, like pain is what their struggle is,
609
00:32:01.319 --> 00:32:04.000
what's happening for them. That's what I would start with
610
00:32:04.119 --> 00:32:07.000
of like if you can just get curious and almost
611
00:32:07.279 --> 00:32:10.440
not leave behind everything you know, because that's so freaking important.
612
00:32:10.519 --> 00:32:13.960
But more so to just continue to ask questions about
613
00:32:13.960 --> 00:32:17.720
what you think you might already understand will help make
614
00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:21.720
huge differences really really quickly. I know it has for myself.
615
00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:24.200
Just getting curious and like, yeah, like, what does it
616
00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:25.720
feel like, what does it look like, what does it
617
00:32:25.759 --> 00:32:29.240
sound like? What is that pain like? Paint me a
618
00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:32.200
picture can really help us get even deeper to what's
619
00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:34.000
really going on underneath the surface.
620
00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:37.799
That's huge. I think what you said there about if
621
00:32:37.839 --> 00:32:40.440
someone says they're sad, like, I know what's sad is
622
00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:44.400
for me, I know how that feels in my body,
623
00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:47.400
I know how that feels in my experience, But for
624
00:32:47.480 --> 00:32:49.960
that person it could be something very different. So I
625
00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:52.359
think that's really important, Like ask them to paint you
626
00:32:52.400 --> 00:32:57.680
a picture of what their experience is, and then start
627
00:32:57.720 --> 00:33:02.000
fresh and come into each interact and understanding that this
628
00:33:02.119 --> 00:33:04.799
is a completely different human than the one that you
629
00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:08.319
saw ten fifteen minutes ago, and a completely different human
630
00:33:08.359 --> 00:33:12.160
than yourself, which is incredible. So well, thank you so
631
00:33:12.240 --> 00:33:13.559
much again for taking the time.
632
00:33:14.200 --> 00:33:16.640
I really appreciate it. And again we got some really
633
00:33:16.680 --> 00:33:21.640
great information and takeaways for our healthcare providers today. Again,
634
00:33:21.680 --> 00:33:22.440
thank you so much.
635
00:33:22.799 --> 00:33:23.200
Thank you.
636
00:33:33.920 --> 00:33:37.440
That wraps up our three part conversation with doctor Carolina Shander.
637
00:33:38.240 --> 00:33:41.599
Across this series, doctor Shander helped us think more deeply
638
00:33:41.680 --> 00:33:48.119
about the connection between mental health, physical recovery, performance, identity, burnout,
639
00:33:48.319 --> 00:33:52.400
and the provider patient relationship, and in his final episode,
640
00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:55.559
she gave us a practical reminder that supporting the whole
641
00:33:55.559 --> 00:33:59.359
patient does not mean that every healthcare provider needs to
642
00:33:59.400 --> 00:34:02.920
become a mental health professional. It means we need to
643
00:34:02.920 --> 00:34:07.319
stay curious, ask better questions, listen more carefully, and know
644
00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:11.360
when to bring another trusted provider into the care team.
645
00:34:11.880 --> 00:34:14.920
One of the strongest takeaways from this conversation is that
646
00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:20.920
relationships matter. Whether we're talking about therapy, rehab, performance, or recovery.
647
00:34:21.239 --> 00:34:25.280
Healing is not just about protocols and plans. It's also
648
00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:30.440
about trust, connection, communication, and understanding what pain, injury, or
649
00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:36.000
performance pressure actually means to the person experiencing it. Doctor
650
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:40.360
Shander also reminded us that while AI and digital tools
651
00:34:40.440 --> 00:34:45.119
may help patients and providers find resources more quickly, they
652
00:34:45.159 --> 00:34:48.639
cannot replace the human relationship that sits at the heart
653
00:34:48.760 --> 00:34:53.000
of meaningful mental health care. So as you head back
654
00:34:53.039 --> 00:34:57.199
into practice, consider this year reminder to get curious. When
655
00:34:57.199 --> 00:35:00.400
a patient tells you something hurts, ask what that pain
656
00:35:00.519 --> 00:35:04.679
means to them. When they seem stuck, ask what feels
657
00:35:04.719 --> 00:35:09.039
hard when they're struggling to follow through with your treatment plan,
658
00:35:09.159 --> 00:35:12.760
or maybe they're at home exercises, ask what's getting in
659
00:35:12.800 --> 00:35:16.079
the way. Those questions may open the door to a
660
00:35:16.119 --> 00:35:20.800
deeper understanding of the person behind the symptoms. A big
661
00:35:20.840 --> 00:35:23.920
thank you to doctor Carolina Shander for sharing her expertise,
662
00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:27.960
her perspective, and such practical guidance for clinicians that work
663
00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:31.480
with athletes, performers, and high achieving individuals.
664
00:35:32.119 --> 00:35:33.880
As always, thank you for listening to.
665
00:35:33.840 --> 00:35:36.880
The Factor podcast. If the series is helpful, a share
666
00:35:36.880 --> 00:35:39.239
it with a colleague, coach, or provider who works with
667
00:35:39.320 --> 00:35:45.000
athletes or patients navigating pain, performance recovery, or identity shifts.
668
00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:50.119
We so appreciate you and any of those likes, follows,
669
00:35:50.239 --> 00:35:53.199
and sharing of episodes helps to grow our network and
670
00:35:53.320 --> 00:35:58.039
helps our content reach more healthcare providers like you. Until
671
00:35:58.079 --> 00:36:01.519
next time, keep learning, refining your systems, and keep raising
672
00:36:01.559 --> 00:36:08.159
the standard of care. We'll see then. Hey, guys, if
673
00:36:08.159 --> 00:36:10.039
you like what you heard today, I encourage you to
674
00:36:10.119 --> 00:36:14.280
visit our website at Factor hyphenstore dot com that's spelled
675
00:36:14.559 --> 00:36:19.800
fa k tr hyphenstore dot com to find out more
676
00:36:19.840 --> 00:36:21.800
information about all that we have to offer.
677
00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:22.960
We have a variety of.
678
00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:25.920
Online offerings as well as our hands on Factor Rehab
679
00:36:25.960 --> 00:36:28.920
System course scheduled in cities around the globe. Be sure
680
00:36:28.920 --> 00:36:31.639
to also check out our event calendar and bookmark any
681
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of these upcoming live webinar dates coming up in the near.
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Future so you can join us live.
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And of course, the biggest compliment we can receive is
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for you to help us spread the word to your friends, colleagues,
685
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and classmates. You'll find all the important links as well
686
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as info about our sponsors in the show notes, so
687
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be sure to check those out.
