Spirit, Body, and Soul: Pianist & Composer David Berry on Virtuosity, Creativity, and Artistic Identity

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Welcome back to The Piano Pod, everyone. Today
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marks the season finale of season six, and what
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a journey it has been. Under the theme, creativity,
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and connection, we've explored the many ways
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artists use music to bridge cultures, disciplines,
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and communities. And I can think of no better
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guest to bring this season to a close than David
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Barry. Cause a pianist, composer, arranger, educator,
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and scholar. david is an artist whose musical
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life resists easy labels equally at home with
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list george walker james p johnson contemporary
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music improvisation and his own original works
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he embodies the spirit of creativity and connection
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through his performances compositions curation
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and deep engagement with students and audiences
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In this conversation, we explore creativity beyond
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categories, the relationship between improvisation
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and composition, the music of George Walker and
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James P. Johnson, contemporary music and living
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composers, and what it means to bring one's full
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musical self to the stage. Along the way, David
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shared stories from his musical upbringing, his
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studies at Eastman and Juilliard, and the artistic
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philosophy behind his upcoming album, Spirit,
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Body, and Soul, Concert Spirituals for Solo Piano.
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This is Season 6, Episode 20 of the PianoPod,
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Spirit, Body, and Soul, Pianist David Barry on
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Virtuosity, Creativity, and Artistic Identity.
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Please enjoy the show. You are listening to The
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Piano Pod, where we talk to the brightest minds
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in the industry about how they are bringing the
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piano into the future and thriving in a complex,
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ever -evolving world. David, welcome to The Piano
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Pod. Thank you for being here today. It's a pleasure.
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Thank you for having me. It is truly a pleasure.
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And where are you joining us from? I am in Harrisonburg,
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Virginia. That's where my home is. And that's
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where I make my life. Oh, great. Wonderful. This
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is such a meaningful way to, you know, close
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out season six of the PianoPod centered on creativity
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and connection, which your artistry truly embodies.
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And Dr. Nena Ogwo, founder and artistic director
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of Juneteenth LP, who was also a guest in season
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four and a featured artist at our first PianoPod
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live event last fall, encouraged me to reach
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out to you and spoke. She spoke so highly of
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your work. So she's amazing. So it's a mutual
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feeling. It's truly an honor that you're here.
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So you're widely recognized as a concert pianist,
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but your recent work also reflects a clear shift
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toward authorship through your original compositions
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on spirituals, your arrangements, your improvisational
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language. Amazing. And your upcoming solo album?
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Yeah, yeah, it's exciting. And it's been an exciting
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part of this part of my journey, my artistic
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journey. Oh, that's amazing. I can't wait to
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talk more about that. So, but I would love to
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begin with this. When you look at all the things
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that you do, you know, from pianist, composer,
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arranger, professor. And so what is the through
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line that connects everything you do? Meaning,
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what's the mission and passion in what you do?
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Yeah, obviously music is my passion and all of
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those things are connected to music. My background,
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my training, you know, it's what I've decided
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I want to make my life in, as is the case for
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probably all of us who are listening to this
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or, you know, here. And I think for me, the through
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line, if I were to say one thing, is just heart.
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The tasks are different, right? As an administrator.
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a university or a professor or anything, the
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daily work looks different. Whether you're dealing
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with spreadsheets or as a pianist, whether you're
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on stage or you're composing, that is different.
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But what is not different is the idea of how
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do you put your heart and soul into this, that
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whatever the task is that you're accomplishing,
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how do you shine through? How is it something
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that you feel proud of and something that you
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feel like you're giving your soul to? And I feel
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like in all of those things, learning the systems,
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learning the tasks is important. But for me,
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that's always sort of been a driving. Wow. Beautiful.
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Thank you so much for saying that. So today is
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especially timely because Brigham Young University's
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Untold Story album is being released. Today is
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May 1st. So, you know, this episode will be released
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on June 16th, but we're recording on May 1st.
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And your composition, Joshua Fought the Battle
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of Jericho, is? one of the featured works for
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this album so first of all congratulations and
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can you tell us about this album how your piece
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became part of it yeah no it was really um interesting
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so i um in 2022 i believe it was um and they
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just have a wonderful piano faculty at brigham
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young um some pianists i've known for a long
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time stephen buse and um Jihei Hong Park had
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this really wonderful idea of creating a piano
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competition there called Untold Stories. And
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so all of the pieces played were by composers
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who would be considered underrepresented or you
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don't hear on the stage all the time. And so
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I had gotten to know Jihei and we had worked
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together. in various contexts. I did something
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for Utah and she did something at my university
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and taught my students. And so it was about that
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time that I had sort of released this composition
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or the score that others could play it. And she
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said, this is great. I actually want my student
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to play it and play it for the competition. So
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I said, that's wonderful. And so her student
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learned it. As soon as I sort of released it,
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Jihei scooped it up and her student learned it.
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And the student won, won a prize in the competition.
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I got to hear the student play, play the piece
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for me. And she was amazing. I loved it. And
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yeah. And as that, that they kind of lived through
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this experience of having run this competition,
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I think had this idea of developing an album
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from it. And so, yeah, that's here we are now
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where, you know, there are pieces by all sorts
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of composers on there, some living, some composers
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who aren't with us now currently, you know, William
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Grant Stills on there. And so it's really an
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honor that my piece would be a part of this project.
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Wow. Well, it's an incredible arrangement. But
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for listeners who may not know the backstory
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or. you know, this Joshua fought the battle of
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Jericho, or some people say Joshua fit the battle
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of Jericho, right? And so this is a very standard
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spiritual song. So can you tell us a little bit
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about this spiritual? Yeah, the spiritual itself
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is definitely one of the ones from the tradition.
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You know, the idea behind a lot of spirituals
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is this connection that enslaved African -Americans
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felt to the narratives of the biblical stories
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and arising from oppression, sort of working
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through barriers. Sometimes it's... being in
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the mire of the everyday oppression and looking
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towards your heavenly home. There are all sorts
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of narratives in the Bible that these spirituals
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come from and enslave African Americans connected
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with. So in the case of Joshua fought the Battle
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of Jericho, this idea of there's this giant,
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seemingly impenetrable empire fortress, and that
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the people could could overcome that and bring
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that down and literally bring down these walls
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is such a pictorial image. And so that sort of,
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in the context of that, that spiritual and those
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lyrics, Joshua fought the battle of Jericho and
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the walls came tumbling down, you know, where
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it comes from. There's such a powerful message
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behind it, and it's so timeless, right? Absolutely.
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has such a strong sense of virtuosity and stylistic
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range. And I could hear Beethoven -like, you
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know, Beethoven sonata -like structure or style
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or Brahms -like texture, you know, and with even
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elements of jazz language as well as Brahms -less
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style. Sometimes I can hear even Debussy -like
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colors. So maybe the way you play. I love hearing
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you talk about it. So how do you approach creating
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that kind of musical world around spiritual?
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Yeah, it's interesting because after the fact,
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like hearing you talk about it, you have a great
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ear, obviously, for hearing these styles and
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things. It's sort of easier after the fact to
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pull out what the styles are and everything,
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even for me. In the composition process, it definitely
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never... it never is and wasn't it for this arrangement
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for me i want a little bit of this or i want
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a little bit of that it was it i think just uh
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um is just a part of my soul and the different
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influences in my musical life that all come together
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to create from for me what's organic next so
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um I never in my life thought once I need a little
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jazzy part right here or I need a little impressionist
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part. It sort of is like this is the texture
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that expresses this moment. Or this is the type
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of virtuosity or the type of structure or the
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way to deal with the motives that express this
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moment. And that might come from. Something that
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sounds more like B .B. King or it might be something
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that sounds like Leigh Brown's Intermezzo. So
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I couldn't describe it different than that. It's
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all together in me, I think. You know, being
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a pianist is one thing and to be able to actually
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create your own language is another. So that's
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quite impressive. And later we can pinpoint and
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say, oh, that's that's an inspiration from this
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composer in that, you know? Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
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So and then your I think I don't know if it was
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your playing or someone else's, but this piece,
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Joshua fought the Battle of Jericho of your arrangement
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or composition was also released on Tiny Glass
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Tavern's album. Is that correct? Yeah. Yeah.
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So the Tiny Glass Tavern is a arts collective.
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So that sort of eclectic, they do all kinds of
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things. They're classical musicians, wonderful
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group. Sophie, the artist director is just amazing
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and had heard a video of me playing this piece
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and wanted it on her album. Her album's all about
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dance. And I guess the rhythmic element of it
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caught her ear. And so I ended up recording that
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with them for Navona Records. So, yeah, that
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was the first commercial sort of release of that
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piece before the competition album sort of came
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about. So it was me playing on that one. But
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it's exciting to hear, you know, another pianist
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and how it hits them and how they feel. Wow.
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Wow. So that's amazing. What it's like for you
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to be recognized that way, you know? on that
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album by Tiny Glass Tavern, but also being in
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the, you know, album of Brigham Young University,
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you know, how do you feel? Yeah, no, it's really
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exciting. You know, I think for one, just the
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connection to different musicians, you know,
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I hadn't known the work of Tiny Glass Tavern
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or Sophie. up there in Boston. And so to get
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connected and sort of make that connection, I
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went up to Boston to record it. And those engineers
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and producer, I really loved and they ended up
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being my team for my own projects. And so it's
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a whole ecosystem of connection besides just
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the notes. I think that's the really exciting
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part about. your music being out in the world
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and connecting with others is those connections
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and relationships that start with the page, start
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with the score, but move into so much more. Wow.
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Yeah. It's a very difficult, sounds like a very
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difficult advanced piece, but I'd love to try.
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But if for anyone who listens and I'm sure there
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are so many people who are listening, would love
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to listen to your, this, this piece, but is the
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score available? It is, yeah. That one, I think,
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so on my website, you can find the link to buy
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the score, but that one's currently self -published.
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Oh, great. So it's davidberry .com. davidberrypiano
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.com. Okay, fantastic. So I will make sure to
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list that. Before, you know, we go deeper into
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your work as a composer and arranger, I want
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to begin with you as a pianist. So composing,
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as I said, composing at the level of dexterity
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and musical depth from, you know, hymnal tune
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requires a real pianistic command. And your recent
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Eastman recital at the Gateways Music Festival,
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that title, The Spirit Body. and soul a musical
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journey through the piano music of george walker
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von's list in african -american spirituals really
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shows the kind of artist you are in an artistic
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world you are building so I understand the program
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brought together something old and new, almost
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a revival of earlier keyboard traditions of beginning
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with improvisation. That's so cool. And then
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moving into two large scale sonatas and concluding
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with your own work and improvisation again. So
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first of all, tell us what pieces you performed
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and could you walk us through how this program
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was conceived and how these elements connect?
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Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, it was an honor
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to be able to play that recital at my alma mater,
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you know, where I'd gone to undergrad. The way
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that, I'll start with how the recital was structured.
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So I began with a prelude of my own in the moment.
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So I improvised sort of a blues prelude, sort
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of a bluesy voice, bluesy style. And then kind
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of, I didn't go immediately into the George Walker
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sonata, but left little space, right? And then
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played George Walker's second piano sonata, which
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is an amazing, dramatic work in modern musical
00:18:14.970 --> 00:18:19.329
language, modernist musical language. I played
00:18:19.329 --> 00:18:22.230
a set of my own spirituals, including one which
00:18:22.230 --> 00:18:25.710
was a premiere for that performance. So I played
00:18:25.710 --> 00:18:28.730
the Joshua fought the Battle of Jericho. I played
00:18:28.730 --> 00:18:30.710
Nobody Knows the Trouble I've Seen, which was
00:18:30.710 --> 00:18:33.210
premiered. You know, I'd written then for that.
00:18:33.309 --> 00:18:36.829
And then I have a set of variations on Right
00:18:36.829 --> 00:18:39.089
on King Jesus in that great getting up morning.
00:18:40.490 --> 00:18:43.410
So I played those and that was the first half.
00:18:44.210 --> 00:18:47.710
After intermission, the second half, I played
00:18:47.710 --> 00:18:52.029
the Liszt piano sonata and then went directly
00:18:52.029 --> 00:18:56.200
into my. composition on Sometimes I Feel Like
00:18:56.200 --> 00:18:58.839
a Motherless Child, and then directly into an
00:18:58.839 --> 00:19:03.539
improvisation on Lift Every Voice and Sing. So
00:19:03.539 --> 00:19:06.700
it was a little bit of work in that second half,
00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:12.460
no doubt. In terms of how that came together,
00:19:12.759 --> 00:19:20.210
again, it's just the different It's music that
00:19:20.210 --> 00:19:23.109
has hit my soul and meant something to me and
00:19:23.109 --> 00:19:27.369
stayed with me throughout my life. And as you
00:19:27.369 --> 00:19:31.450
get older, as you live with music, you start
00:19:31.450 --> 00:19:35.049
to understand it in different ways and dig into
00:19:35.049 --> 00:19:38.630
it in different ways. You're a different person
00:19:38.630 --> 00:19:41.470
as you grow. Your emotional relationship and
00:19:41.470 --> 00:19:44.329
your experiences relate differently. But analytically,
00:19:44.430 --> 00:19:47.490
your analytical mind and your understanding of
00:19:47.490 --> 00:19:51.089
structure and phrasing and intervals and line
00:19:51.089 --> 00:19:54.529
and all of those things change as well. And I
00:19:54.529 --> 00:19:57.869
think for me at this point in my life, I start
00:19:57.869 --> 00:20:02.109
to hear a lot more connections between all of
00:20:02.109 --> 00:20:06.200
those things. Some of it's through sort of the
00:20:06.200 --> 00:20:10.779
worlds that those musics inhabit. You know, Franz
00:20:10.779 --> 00:20:13.259
Liszt and spirituals would come from the same
00:20:13.259 --> 00:20:17.720
time in history. Different places culturally,
00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:20.720
obviously, where Liszt was and then where spirituals
00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:24.900
were coming from. But in terms of what, in the
00:20:24.900 --> 00:20:29.539
grand span of time, this is a moment in time,
00:20:29.640 --> 00:20:33.900
the 19th century. And there's a zeitgeist to
00:20:33.900 --> 00:20:37.200
that time, right? I'm sorry, I never connected
00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:41.180
those two together in terms of time -wise. You're
00:20:41.180 --> 00:20:46.640
right. Certainly. I mean, you think of the Industrial
00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:49.579
Revolution affects everyone during that time.
00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:53.539
What that meant for enslaved people in 19th century
00:20:53.539 --> 00:20:55.779
is different than what that meant for Liszt,
00:20:55.779 --> 00:20:59.220
maybe. But those are things you're dealing with
00:20:59.220 --> 00:21:02.109
in that. that time period right and the reaction
00:21:02.109 --> 00:21:05.250
the way you write the way um your soul is expressed
00:21:05.250 --> 00:21:09.170
you know that's why we have broad categorizations
00:21:09.170 --> 00:21:11.849
um but we do have them because they mean something
00:21:11.849 --> 00:21:15.150
a romantic era or or a classical era or whatever
00:21:15.150 --> 00:21:17.890
and so i think it's a time where people really
00:21:17.890 --> 00:21:21.910
express their soul in a certain type of way and
00:21:21.910 --> 00:21:24.369
that's part of the connection i saw Even though
00:21:24.369 --> 00:21:26.349
list was in a different part of the world than
00:21:26.349 --> 00:21:28.750
where the spirituals were, it's this idea of
00:21:28.750 --> 00:21:33.210
you connect from your soul and your heart in
00:21:33.210 --> 00:21:39.250
a deep way. And so that's one aspect is sort
00:21:39.250 --> 00:21:42.029
of that soul emotional connection. But then as
00:21:42.029 --> 00:21:44.490
the analytical brain moves and you listen to
00:21:44.490 --> 00:21:49.170
structures and overtones and dissonances, I start
00:21:49.170 --> 00:21:53.500
to see, you know. In George Walker's very modernist
00:21:53.500 --> 00:21:58.819
musical language, a kinship to the sound world
00:21:58.819 --> 00:22:04.400
of the blues, the way dissonances use the idea
00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:07.859
of what we'd call cross relations, the major
00:22:07.859 --> 00:22:13.160
and the minor and existing simultaneously. Some
00:22:13.160 --> 00:22:17.960
of the types of gestures and sort of the power
00:22:17.960 --> 00:22:22.470
and force. All of those things. So I found them
00:22:22.470 --> 00:22:25.049
to be similar sound worlds. And he is a very
00:22:25.049 --> 00:22:28.329
modernist composer, but he uses spirituals and
00:22:28.329 --> 00:22:31.589
jazz and blues influences, probably in ways a
00:22:31.589 --> 00:22:35.130
lot of people wouldn't necessarily hear in there.
00:22:35.309 --> 00:22:37.910
But if you dig into the structures, the intervals,
00:22:38.089 --> 00:22:42.809
the sound world, there is a kinship there that
00:22:42.809 --> 00:22:48.210
I heard. And then with Liszt, also, if you listen
00:22:48.210 --> 00:22:51.660
to... what, like, many contemporary gospel pianists
00:22:51.660 --> 00:22:57.480
are playing now. Parallel diminished chords and
00:22:57.480 --> 00:23:01.039
things like that. You hear, and you only get
00:23:01.039 --> 00:23:03.180
it when you're sitting in front of a piano working
00:23:03.180 --> 00:23:07.099
through the Liszt sonata, that this sound is
00:23:07.099 --> 00:23:10.779
a sound that I hear now. And, you know, that's
00:23:10.779 --> 00:23:15.819
a texture that Liszt used. And so it's sort of
00:23:15.819 --> 00:23:19.539
in the work. that the inspiration came. It definitely
00:23:19.539 --> 00:23:21.339
wasn't like, I want to put this and that together,
00:23:21.500 --> 00:23:24.220
sort of sitting there with the pieces being influenced
00:23:24.220 --> 00:23:27.980
by them that you see connections. Wow. That's
00:23:27.980 --> 00:23:32.200
deep. Right. But then you mentioned about the
00:23:32.200 --> 00:23:35.220
connection between enslaved African Americans
00:23:35.220 --> 00:23:38.400
at the time with the Franz Liszt in timeline
00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:41.259
wise, but also I feel like there's the spiritual.
00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:45.359
So because Liszt was a very spiritual man. Oh,
00:23:45.359 --> 00:23:47.980
yeah. That connection, too, don't you think?
00:23:48.440 --> 00:23:52.059
Of course. Yeah. No. So at the at the concert,
00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:56.160
I actually I spoke. So I think in some respects,
00:23:56.299 --> 00:23:59.259
the music speaks for itself. But in a concert
00:23:59.259 --> 00:24:02.559
like this, I thought some sort of helping the
00:24:02.559 --> 00:24:06.400
audience to know how to at least begin to think
00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:09.039
through it would be helpful. So I explain a little
00:24:09.039 --> 00:24:12.559
bit about what I was doing with the blues prelude
00:24:12.559 --> 00:24:16.099
in The Walker. Both before and after the experience
00:24:16.099 --> 00:24:19.059
of it. And in the beginning, talked about List
00:24:19.059 --> 00:24:23.740
and his spirituality and how that sort of connects
00:24:23.740 --> 00:24:27.940
with where the spirituals came from. So absolutely,
00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:30.720
that connection is there. That's fantastic. Would
00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:33.380
you like to do this program again sometime in
00:24:33.380 --> 00:24:36.880
that similar sort of way? Oh, for sure. Yeah.
00:24:36.940 --> 00:24:40.079
No, it was a really, really amazing experience
00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:42.420
to be able to bring things together in that.
00:24:42.829 --> 00:24:45.710
sort of a way. I had never quite done it exactly
00:24:45.710 --> 00:24:48.829
like that. You know, I've incorporated my compositions
00:24:48.829 --> 00:24:53.670
and things, but I wanted something really integrated.
00:24:54.269 --> 00:24:57.690
Wow. But where does this, you know, starting
00:24:57.690 --> 00:25:01.650
from improvisation and ending on improvisation
00:25:01.650 --> 00:25:07.970
come from? Yeah. Well, you know, some of these
00:25:07.970 --> 00:25:12.640
things have always been a part of my life. And
00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:17.920
I think what's your career and what's your life
00:25:17.920 --> 00:25:21.980
aren't necessarily by default the same thing
00:25:21.980 --> 00:25:26.480
unless you find ways to merge that. There's plenty
00:25:26.480 --> 00:25:31.099
of things we're interested in and do and love
00:25:31.099 --> 00:25:35.799
that aren't necessarily the main parts of what
00:25:35.799 --> 00:25:41.049
people ask us to do. I think. And improvisation
00:25:41.049 --> 00:25:45.690
has always been something I've loved, has always
00:25:45.690 --> 00:25:48.910
been something I've been done and been interested
00:25:48.910 --> 00:25:52.190
in. And at the same time, I'm practicing, you
00:25:52.190 --> 00:25:54.990
know, my Rachmaninoff or Beethoven and sort of
00:25:54.990 --> 00:25:57.269
intensely with the metronome and I need a mental
00:25:57.269 --> 00:26:01.990
break. I will improvise. So literally, all of
00:26:01.990 --> 00:26:06.519
those pieces came to be. as a part of the same
00:26:06.519 --> 00:26:09.460
process as the improvisation, no matter what
00:26:09.460 --> 00:26:12.099
the concert was going to be. So it's always been
00:26:12.099 --> 00:26:18.240
there. This, I think in this concert, it was
00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:21.339
just a matter of bringing my full musical self
00:26:21.339 --> 00:26:28.960
to the stage. And then improvisation offers you
00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:33.019
the unique opportunity to be totally present.
00:26:33.500 --> 00:26:37.279
with that experience and that audience and what
00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:43.440
the spirit in this room right now um what what
00:26:43.440 --> 00:26:46.900
what is it i need to do that speaks to the spirit
00:26:46.900 --> 00:26:50.440
right now you know i was gonna ask these questions
00:26:50.440 --> 00:26:53.220
later but you know why not i think you know you
00:26:53.220 --> 00:26:57.660
are really trained musician at you know at eastman
00:26:57.660 --> 00:27:01.539
and later went on to Juilliard and got your master's
00:27:01.539 --> 00:27:06.700
in DMA as well from Juilliard right so uh but
00:27:06.700 --> 00:27:09.720
at the same time you do this improvisation I
00:27:09.720 --> 00:27:12.720
mean you shouldn't separate those two but that's
00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:15.539
at the same time I think it's still people have
00:27:15.539 --> 00:27:18.880
this ideas about this is classical music and
00:27:18.880 --> 00:27:22.799
this is improvisation but I I hope one of these
00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:26.650
days we these two sort of Merge again together
00:27:26.650 --> 00:27:28.730
because just like Baroque time, you know what
00:27:28.730 --> 00:27:31.990
I mean? Of course. Anyway, if you think back
00:27:31.990 --> 00:27:36.710
to your earliest musical memories, where did
00:27:36.710 --> 00:27:40.930
you start your musical journey? Yeah, well, the
00:27:40.930 --> 00:27:44.990
first piece I'd ever learned on the piano, my
00:27:44.990 --> 00:27:48.450
father taught it to me. Yeah, my father, he actually
00:27:48.450 --> 00:27:52.980
passed away just last year. Oh, sorry. Yeah,
00:27:53.059 --> 00:27:55.680
but he taught me the first piece I'd ever learned
00:27:55.680 --> 00:27:59.819
on the piano. And it was a Ray Charles blues
00:27:59.819 --> 00:28:02.640
that you could play all on black notes. He was
00:28:02.640 --> 00:28:05.700
a sort of self -taught guitarist, played the
00:28:05.700 --> 00:28:08.740
blues, kind of gospel, southern vision. But he
00:28:08.740 --> 00:28:13.500
knew this one song on piano. And I always mention
00:28:13.500 --> 00:28:18.240
this is that, you know, years, years later, I'm
00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:21.150
studying, you know, at these. places and, you
00:28:21.150 --> 00:28:23.569
know, advanced studies and piano pedagogy and
00:28:23.569 --> 00:28:26.490
all of these things. And, you know, one of the
00:28:26.490 --> 00:28:29.430
things they teach you is about the white keys
00:28:29.430 --> 00:28:33.309
and the black keys and play something only on
00:28:33.309 --> 00:28:35.250
the black keys and how students can learn and,
00:28:35.289 --> 00:28:37.309
you know, the rainbow and the arc and all of
00:28:37.309 --> 00:28:41.410
these things. And that was an important connection
00:28:41.410 --> 00:28:46.589
for me because now that I'm in the academy, you
00:28:46.589 --> 00:28:49.230
know, to not forget. that that first piece I
00:28:49.230 --> 00:28:53.309
learned was pedagogical brilliance. And that
00:28:53.309 --> 00:28:56.549
part of my training is equally as important and
00:28:56.549 --> 00:29:01.390
valid as what I'm being taught here and was first.
00:29:01.710 --> 00:29:04.750
I wouldn't be here without that. So it was the
00:29:04.750 --> 00:29:07.829
first thing I learned. I'm Black Keys. I went
00:29:07.829 --> 00:29:10.990
to a piano teacher. My parents took me. This
00:29:10.990 --> 00:29:13.569
wonderful Greek piano teacher and conductor,
00:29:13.690 --> 00:29:16.630
George Scafidis, who was obsessed with Beethoven.
00:29:17.529 --> 00:29:20.289
And so he mentioned Beethoven earlier. Really
00:29:20.289 --> 00:29:23.809
put the bug in me for Beethoven and, you know,
00:29:23.809 --> 00:29:27.769
just his whole life and his story and everything
00:29:27.769 --> 00:29:32.150
about him. Musically, resilience, perseverance,
00:29:32.670 --> 00:29:37.049
fiery to all of the things. And so, you know,
00:29:37.049 --> 00:29:40.430
my piano lessons were always classical with that
00:29:40.430 --> 00:29:44.369
teacher. In my whole life, you know, I had my
00:29:44.369 --> 00:29:47.769
father who played the blues and gospel, you know,
00:29:47.769 --> 00:29:49.650
the cars driving down the street in the neighborhood
00:29:49.650 --> 00:29:53.029
might play hip hop, you know, in the church,
00:29:53.049 --> 00:29:57.369
I'd have, you know, gospel music and be listening.
00:29:57.410 --> 00:29:59.930
What exactly was that chord progression and go
00:29:59.930 --> 00:30:02.309
and play my Beethoven sonata and then try to
00:30:02.309 --> 00:30:03.910
figure out what those chords were I heard in
00:30:03.910 --> 00:30:07.609
church or whatever. And so those were all a part
00:30:07.609 --> 00:30:13.410
of my musical life. And so. Not just the part
00:30:13.410 --> 00:30:16.630
you go to piano lessons for, right? They're all
00:30:16.630 --> 00:30:19.369
part of your musical makeup. So they work for
00:30:19.369 --> 00:30:24.609
me. Wow, that's great. But it sounds like you
00:30:24.609 --> 00:30:27.529
also had a lot of opportunities for you to sort
00:30:27.529 --> 00:30:32.430
of do a lot of improvisational stuff growing
00:30:32.430 --> 00:30:38.619
up. Yeah, well. I had always been sort of interested
00:30:38.619 --> 00:30:41.539
in it. And, you know, I play the blues and stuff
00:30:41.539 --> 00:30:46.700
with my father. I think as I grew in my knowledge
00:30:46.700 --> 00:30:48.980
of music, so it was sort of interesting because,
00:30:49.079 --> 00:30:53.599
you know, I'd take the piano, classical piano
00:30:53.599 --> 00:30:56.180
lessons and music theory, and then I'd hear this
00:30:56.180 --> 00:30:59.799
music around me and try to figure out what it
00:30:59.799 --> 00:31:04.460
is from the classical theory I had learned. So
00:31:04.460 --> 00:31:07.740
I wasn't... completely uh process of i was just
00:31:07.740 --> 00:31:09.980
improvising by here and then became a classical
00:31:09.980 --> 00:31:12.200
it was sort of like they grew simultaneously
00:31:12.200 --> 00:31:16.559
but the classical gave me an analytical um yeah
00:31:16.559 --> 00:31:20.480
ability yeah yeah but you know i'm asking you
00:31:20.480 --> 00:31:25.019
this because you know as we both are trained
00:31:25.019 --> 00:31:29.220
pianists and but improvisation part was just
00:31:29.220 --> 00:31:32.890
not really encouraged Or even, you know, making,
00:31:33.069 --> 00:31:36.789
composing, that's like, oh, for those who want
00:31:36.789 --> 00:31:39.069
to pursue composition, that's a completely separate
00:31:39.069 --> 00:31:42.670
track. And we pianists just stay in the practice
00:31:42.670 --> 00:31:45.390
room and do your hand -on and do your journey.
00:31:47.029 --> 00:31:53.730
You see? So that's why I asked. Yeah, so that
00:31:53.730 --> 00:31:57.509
same piano teacher I had, he was also a composer.
00:31:57.789 --> 00:32:03.940
And so... And I think I actually just brought
00:32:03.940 --> 00:32:07.880
to him one day a fully fleshed composition I
00:32:07.880 --> 00:32:11.279
had been working on, a piano piece. And he was
00:32:11.279 --> 00:32:15.099
like, you compose music? It was sort of like
00:32:15.099 --> 00:32:18.480
that. I'd go to my lessons, Hammond and Czerny
00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:20.759
and all of that. And then into my practice time,
00:32:20.859 --> 00:32:23.039
on the side, it was all of these. these other
00:32:23.039 --> 00:32:26.220
things, you know? And then, but when I brought
00:32:26.220 --> 00:32:28.599
that into that space, you know, he was thrilled,
00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:31.640
right? Because he's a composer. And so it was
00:32:31.640 --> 00:32:35.220
definitely encouraged. I would say it wasn't
00:32:35.220 --> 00:32:38.039
necessarily a part of my musical training early
00:32:38.039 --> 00:32:43.319
on. I was trained as a pianist. I see. Okay.
00:32:43.599 --> 00:32:48.019
Wow. Interesting. Then you went on to Eastman.
00:32:48.509 --> 00:32:51.309
for your undergraduate degree, followed by Juilliard
00:32:51.309 --> 00:32:54.650
for your master's and doctoral studies. Those
00:32:54.650 --> 00:32:57.769
are such prestigious schools, and I'm sure you
00:32:57.769 --> 00:33:02.890
had mentors who trained you and shaped who you
00:33:02.890 --> 00:33:07.549
are today. I started with my teacher at the Eastman
00:33:07.549 --> 00:33:10.569
School of Music, Douglas Humphreys. It is an
00:33:10.569 --> 00:33:13.769
amazing pianist, amazing professor and mentor.
00:33:14.629 --> 00:33:17.049
I started taking lessons with him when I was
00:33:17.049 --> 00:33:19.930
in high school because I'm from Syracuse, New
00:33:19.930 --> 00:33:22.450
York. It's about an hour and a half from the
00:33:22.450 --> 00:33:24.869
Eastman School in Rochester. Oh, you're originally
00:33:24.869 --> 00:33:28.650
from New York. Okay. Upstate New York, born and
00:33:28.650 --> 00:33:32.750
raised. And so I'd had, I'd done a, you know,
00:33:32.750 --> 00:33:35.069
they'd had a summer pre -college competition
00:33:35.069 --> 00:33:38.750
I'd participated in. And so I met him through
00:33:38.750 --> 00:33:40.910
that. And then I started taking lessons with
00:33:40.910 --> 00:33:43.960
him. My family, we'd drive up there. I'd take
00:33:43.960 --> 00:33:45.960
my lessons. My mom would take my sisters over
00:33:45.960 --> 00:33:48.720
to the science museum or something like that
00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:51.799
while I'm in my lessons. So I started with him
00:33:51.799 --> 00:33:56.960
then. So he really helped me form the foundation
00:33:56.960 --> 00:34:03.940
of what I would become as a pianist in terms
00:34:03.940 --> 00:34:10.199
of here's... the conservatory level or this,
00:34:10.260 --> 00:34:15.199
this road to concert pianist that if you're interested
00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:20.659
in, in pursuing what, what that looks like, you
00:34:20.659 --> 00:34:22.840
know, as a young, younger pianist, that's something
00:34:22.840 --> 00:34:28.739
we all have to understand the level of commitment
00:34:28.739 --> 00:34:33.860
and discipline and sensitivity. I think that
00:34:33.860 --> 00:34:40.449
that part is true too. Your ear, sensitive in
00:34:40.449 --> 00:34:42.670
that way, your soul, sensitive in that way, all
00:34:42.670 --> 00:34:46.829
of those things. So I'd hate to describe it as
00:34:46.829 --> 00:34:50.349
boot camp. That sounds so unartistic after saying
00:34:50.349 --> 00:34:53.250
we're talking about nuance and sensitivity, but
00:34:53.250 --> 00:34:58.469
really what it takes. And so I think that was
00:34:58.469 --> 00:35:02.449
amazing to go through that process and him being
00:35:02.449 --> 00:35:04.650
a mentor. And I had a lot of others along the
00:35:04.650 --> 00:35:08.280
way at that college. Music history professors,
00:35:08.579 --> 00:35:12.880
I've always had a love of history. And like I
00:35:12.880 --> 00:35:14.840
said, with Beethoven, understand the composer's
00:35:14.840 --> 00:35:18.559
life and sort of all these elements around music.
00:35:19.599 --> 00:35:22.539
Other chamber music coaches, all of those things.
00:35:23.019 --> 00:35:27.760
I think when I went to Juilliard. All of those
00:35:27.760 --> 00:35:30.199
things continued, but also just the environment
00:35:30.199 --> 00:35:33.340
of being right there. You know, it sits right
00:35:33.340 --> 00:35:35.840
at Lincoln Center and the Met is across the street.
00:35:36.139 --> 00:35:40.800
And I always love telling these some of the friends
00:35:40.800 --> 00:35:43.960
you have. There's so many talented, amazing people
00:35:43.960 --> 00:35:47.460
of all kinds of disciplines, you know, dance,
00:35:47.639 --> 00:35:52.079
music, acting. So it's just the whole atmosphere
00:35:52.079 --> 00:35:55.900
of being in a place like that. just feeds you
00:35:55.900 --> 00:35:59.219
and motivates you. I always tell this funny story
00:35:59.219 --> 00:36:02.139
of like, you know, you'll be walking past a practice
00:36:02.139 --> 00:36:04.420
room and hear like Tchaikovsky piano concerto
00:36:04.420 --> 00:36:07.739
number one or, or rock two or something. And
00:36:07.739 --> 00:36:10.340
you look in the window and you don't see anybody.
00:36:10.380 --> 00:36:13.699
And it's because it's a preparatory kid. Who's
00:36:13.699 --> 00:36:16.599
too short. You can't see them, but they're playing,
00:36:16.679 --> 00:36:21.719
you know, you just see who's in there. And so.
00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:24.420
Just being in that kind of environment, right,
00:36:24.500 --> 00:36:28.559
where there's so much amazing talent in the city,
00:36:28.599 --> 00:36:31.739
in the school, is just an amazing experience.
00:36:31.880 --> 00:36:34.440
So I think that was also a huge part of that
00:36:34.440 --> 00:36:36.980
experience. And I love my teacher there, Martin
00:36:36.980 --> 00:36:39.639
Cannon, one of the great American pedagogues.
00:36:40.659 --> 00:36:45.119
And just learned so much from him about the technical
00:36:45.119 --> 00:36:47.800
details of piano playing. But, you know, one
00:36:47.800 --> 00:36:49.500
of his great gifts was he'd just demonstrate.
00:36:50.079 --> 00:36:53.159
in a lesson. And it's like music from heaven,
00:36:53.179 --> 00:36:56.340
the sound, you know, effortlessly, just beautifully.
00:36:56.460 --> 00:36:59.619
So I'll net that the impression of just simple,
00:36:59.679 --> 00:37:03.340
beautiful from the soul musicality without pretension
00:37:03.340 --> 00:37:08.400
was something that I felt like will never leave
00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:11.719
my, my mind and soul from watching him play.
00:37:12.679 --> 00:37:19.239
Wow. Yeah. Then did any classes or teachers,
00:37:20.079 --> 00:37:23.639
maybe encourage you to compose more or improvise
00:37:23.639 --> 00:37:27.500
more or any inspiration from that era? Yeah,
00:37:27.619 --> 00:37:30.380
it's interesting. Like I said, in my early life,
00:37:30.420 --> 00:37:37.440
I was sort of already doing those things separately
00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:44.079
from my training, kind of. And they'd sort of
00:37:44.079 --> 00:37:49.320
been. It peaked its way into the sort of classical
00:37:49.320 --> 00:37:52.960
part of my life here and there. I'd won a composition
00:37:52.960 --> 00:37:59.420
award at the NAACP AXO competition. It's this
00:37:59.420 --> 00:38:02.500
amazing competition to encourage youth. It's
00:38:02.500 --> 00:38:04.260
sort of like you start in your region and then
00:38:04.260 --> 00:38:06.380
there's a national competition in all sorts of
00:38:06.380 --> 00:38:09.420
categories, you know, music, contemporary music,
00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:15.030
computer science. literature, acting, oratory.
00:38:15.289 --> 00:38:19.090
And so I won an award for my piece then I was
00:38:19.090 --> 00:38:24.829
15. But it was still not what I was focusing
00:38:24.829 --> 00:38:28.809
on in my lessons and all of that. And I would
00:38:28.809 --> 00:38:31.469
say when I went to conservatory, that was much
00:38:31.469 --> 00:38:36.010
more about becoming a pianist. So I think maybe
00:38:36.010 --> 00:38:40.980
even then the composition. wasn't something that
00:38:40.980 --> 00:38:44.420
was on the forefront of my mind as opposed to
00:38:44.420 --> 00:38:47.119
being a pianist. So it was always sort of there
00:38:47.119 --> 00:38:49.340
and in the mix and I was always still arranging
00:38:49.340 --> 00:38:53.760
and writing things. But it was really sort of
00:38:53.760 --> 00:38:57.940
in all of these other areas of my life that I
00:38:57.940 --> 00:39:01.599
was utilizing those skills, you know, whether
00:39:01.599 --> 00:39:06.360
it was as a church music director while I was
00:39:06.360 --> 00:39:10.480
doing my training or playing with singers or
00:39:10.480 --> 00:39:14.619
bands or, and all of that kind of a thing. And
00:39:14.619 --> 00:39:20.360
then it was sort of, I feel like more after I'd
00:39:20.360 --> 00:39:24.559
finished that I started merging those into what
00:39:24.559 --> 00:39:28.519
I did on the stage as a classical artist. So
00:39:28.519 --> 00:39:32.059
it was interesting journey. It is an interesting
00:39:32.059 --> 00:39:34.780
journey. I'm just going to go back a little bit.
00:39:34.820 --> 00:39:38.000
You being a pianist again, I want to know your,
00:39:39.050 --> 00:39:45.710
recording of uh james p johnson yeah um that
00:39:45.710 --> 00:39:47.889
one wasn't a recording that was a live performance
00:39:47.889 --> 00:39:54.449
um i see so who is playing in this uh with the
00:39:54.449 --> 00:39:58.949
harlem chamber players yeah album or it was or
00:39:58.949 --> 00:40:02.110
was it an album or um that was for a concert
00:40:02.110 --> 00:40:06.590
we did um in 2024 which is like the 125th anniversary
00:40:06.590 --> 00:40:11.030
of the birth of Duke Ellington, obviously a worldwide
00:40:11.030 --> 00:40:14.610
important figure, but especially to Harlem and
00:40:14.610 --> 00:40:17.530
the Harlem Renaissance and all of that. So the
00:40:17.530 --> 00:40:21.250
Harlem Chamber plays a magnificent group, collective
00:40:21.250 --> 00:40:25.449
of musicians run by Liz Player, based in Harlem,
00:40:25.610 --> 00:40:28.230
classical music organization, but always, has
00:40:28.230 --> 00:40:34.610
always been diverse musically. In the composers
00:40:34.610 --> 00:40:38.469
and musicians, all of that. So this was this
00:40:38.469 --> 00:40:43.829
anniversary concert, and it was called Duke Ellington
00:40:43.829 --> 00:40:47.269
in a Symphonic Mood. You know, there's a standard
00:40:47.269 --> 00:40:49.590
in a sentimental mood, so it's sort of a playoff
00:40:49.590 --> 00:40:52.070
of that title. And it incorporated some of Duke
00:40:52.070 --> 00:40:56.309
Ellington's orchestral compositions. And then
00:40:56.309 --> 00:40:58.969
also sort of in his same world and sphere was
00:40:58.969 --> 00:41:03.010
James P. Johnson. And so he had this piece, Yamacraw,
00:41:03.110 --> 00:41:08.510
that was a part of that concert as well. So I
00:41:08.510 --> 00:41:11.489
think the full title is Yamacraw Negro Rhapsody
00:41:11.489 --> 00:41:14.190
or an ebony rhapsody. I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:41:14.369 --> 00:41:18.989
And so tell us a little bit about this James
00:41:18.989 --> 00:41:23.150
P. Johnson. And he was known as a Harlem stride
00:41:23.150 --> 00:41:27.840
pianist. Yeah. And stride is a very hard thing
00:41:27.840 --> 00:41:34.000
to do. You know, I tried Mary Lou Williams. What
00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:37.940
is it? Nightlife. Yeah. I have the score and
00:41:37.940 --> 00:41:41.260
I tried. Well, left hand is so difficult. Yeah.
00:41:41.380 --> 00:41:46.500
Yeah. It's tricky. The stride. Yeah. James P.
00:41:46.519 --> 00:41:51.280
Johnson is a super, a really important figure.
00:41:52.010 --> 00:41:57.650
who had not been as celebrated widely as maybe
00:41:57.650 --> 00:42:01.389
a Duke Ellington was, but certainly in that world
00:42:01.389 --> 00:42:06.510
of the Harlem jazz scene and the 1920s, all of
00:42:06.510 --> 00:42:11.530
that, a seminal figure. So he's really important
00:42:11.530 --> 00:42:16.769
in helping the transition. sort of from ragtime,
00:42:16.989 --> 00:42:18.869
you know, what you think of with like Scott Joplin
00:42:18.869 --> 00:42:23.750
and Maple Leaf Rag to this stride piano we're
00:42:23.750 --> 00:42:26.170
talking about. He's sort of the father of it
00:42:26.170 --> 00:42:30.510
and what we would call like Harlem stride. So
00:42:30.510 --> 00:42:33.769
there's other pianists, Willie the Lion Smith,
00:42:34.110 --> 00:42:39.389
Fats Waller was a sort of pupil of his. So he's
00:42:39.389 --> 00:42:43.309
sort of the father of that tradition. He was
00:42:43.309 --> 00:42:46.829
a really interesting figure in that he was interested
00:42:46.829 --> 00:42:52.030
in all kinds of music. He did the stride in jazz,
00:42:52.329 --> 00:42:55.949
but he was also really interested in classical
00:42:55.949 --> 00:42:59.190
music and sort of studied independently European
00:42:59.190 --> 00:43:04.190
classical music, wrote musicals. Probably the
00:43:04.190 --> 00:43:07.530
most famous song of the 1920s, the Charleston,
00:43:07.590 --> 00:43:10.449
is his composition. His music was featured in
00:43:10.449 --> 00:43:15.739
films. a Renaissance figure in terms of musically.
00:43:17.519 --> 00:43:22.159
The piece itself is, yeah, has a really amazing
00:43:22.159 --> 00:43:25.860
story to it as well. Oh, tell me. Yeah, yeah.
00:43:25.920 --> 00:43:31.000
Okay. Well, so he did know George Gershwin. They
00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:34.280
were, you know, contemporaries. And so Rhapsody
00:43:34.280 --> 00:43:39.639
in Blue was written in 1924. And James P. Johnson
00:43:39.639 --> 00:43:42.670
decided to... kind of write his own rhapsody.
00:43:43.530 --> 00:43:48.949
And so this piece was the Yamacra. And Yamacra
00:43:48.949 --> 00:43:54.269
is named after like a community or sort of rural
00:43:54.269 --> 00:43:56.989
outskirts community of Savannah, Georgia, African
00:43:56.989 --> 00:44:02.210
-American community. So, you know, a lot of Gershwin
00:44:02.210 --> 00:44:05.210
has Charleston as a Charleston, South Carolina
00:44:05.210 --> 00:44:10.579
as a. cultural inspiration, but this one's Yamakura.
00:44:10.980 --> 00:44:15.780
So the piece is sort of in a similar vein, what
00:44:15.780 --> 00:44:18.380
we might call third stream music that sort of
00:44:18.380 --> 00:44:21.639
brings together classical and jazz in a way like
00:44:21.639 --> 00:44:27.079
Rhapsody in Blue does. But it's his own way to
00:44:27.079 --> 00:44:29.820
do that. And I think it's very different than
00:44:29.820 --> 00:44:35.699
Gershwin's way. You know, Gershwin, I think,
00:44:36.429 --> 00:44:40.510
is amazing in this sort of tin pan alley and
00:44:40.510 --> 00:44:43.730
jazz roots. But James P. Johnson also had something
00:44:43.730 --> 00:44:47.949
that was a little further south, a little more
00:44:47.949 --> 00:44:53.969
gritty, a little bit more blues infused. And
00:44:53.969 --> 00:44:57.489
so it's a different, it's definitely a different
00:44:57.489 --> 00:45:00.230
sound, a different tradition of this sort of
00:45:00.230 --> 00:45:03.170
third stream. It's not a monolith. It's his own
00:45:03.170 --> 00:45:07.099
voice. Surely, I mean, his music is unique and
00:45:07.099 --> 00:45:10.079
just not quite being able to pinpoint. Obviously,
00:45:10.300 --> 00:45:13.300
the stride is a very, very distinctive feature,
00:45:13.500 --> 00:45:18.760
but I did not know this artist or composer. Yeah,
00:45:18.880 --> 00:45:22.579
so he originally played it as a piano piece,
00:45:22.820 --> 00:45:25.900
but then it was orchestrated by William Grant
00:45:25.900 --> 00:45:29.360
Still, an amazing composer. And so that's where
00:45:29.360 --> 00:45:32.480
this version came from as sort of a piano concerto,
00:45:32.480 --> 00:45:36.119
you know, with... a full orchestra and piano
00:45:36.119 --> 00:45:38.920
solos. And it's really intertwined. It's almost
00:45:38.920 --> 00:45:43.159
like a symphony of piano and orchestra. Right.
00:45:43.300 --> 00:45:45.619
And did you play this as a solo piano piece?
00:45:46.719 --> 00:45:50.280
No, I played it. We played it in the version,
00:45:50.880 --> 00:45:53.320
you know, with the orchestra. So, you know, the
00:45:53.320 --> 00:45:57.059
Harlem Chamber Players Orchestra. played it,
00:45:57.099 --> 00:46:00.300
and I was the piano soloist for the piece. And
00:46:00.300 --> 00:46:03.320
it was a dream to do it in Harlem at the anniversary
00:46:03.320 --> 00:46:06.880
of Duke Ellington. Damien Sneed's an amazing
00:46:06.880 --> 00:46:09.940
artist, sort of in gospel, classical, and jazz,
00:46:10.079 --> 00:46:11.699
brings all these things together, conducted the
00:46:11.699 --> 00:46:15.739
performance. Wow. Yeah. Wow, that's fantastic.
00:46:16.000 --> 00:46:19.139
When was this? Like several years ago? Yeah,
00:46:19.280 --> 00:46:24.730
this was in 2024. Oh, not too long ago. So building
00:46:24.730 --> 00:46:27.449
on these, you know, perspectives, and I'm curious
00:46:27.449 --> 00:46:30.210
how your work extends into the present, you know,
00:46:30.210 --> 00:46:31.849
especially your engagement with contemporary
00:46:31.849 --> 00:46:36.110
music and living composers. So you premiered
00:46:36.110 --> 00:46:38.849
works by James Lee III. Oh, I love his piano
00:46:38.849 --> 00:46:43.369
works. And then Adolphus Hillstork and his chamber
00:46:43.369 --> 00:46:47.670
music. I listened to, I think, with the Harlem
00:46:47.670 --> 00:46:50.440
Chamber players, right? Were you the pianist
00:46:50.440 --> 00:46:55.699
in that album? I am, yeah. That is a fantastic
00:46:55.699 --> 00:47:02.260
work. Oh, it is. Yeah, so how would you describe
00:47:02.260 --> 00:47:04.460
your relationship to contemporary music and what
00:47:04.460 --> 00:47:08.500
draws you into it? Because you also play Liszt,
00:47:08.500 --> 00:47:11.199
for example, and the other so -and -so called
00:47:11.199 --> 00:47:17.760
classical pieces, too. Yeah, well... Sort of
00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:20.280
interesting, right at the beginning of my professional
00:47:20.280 --> 00:47:22.380
career, you know, and sort of getting out of
00:47:22.380 --> 00:47:29.079
school and everything, really three organizations
00:47:29.079 --> 00:47:32.260
I sort of played with a lot as a regular member.
00:47:32.539 --> 00:47:38.219
And they were all committed to diverse representation
00:47:38.219 --> 00:47:42.219
of composers and musicians on stage and also
00:47:42.219 --> 00:47:45.940
new music. So all of them commissioned pieces.
00:47:47.960 --> 00:47:54.840
by composers of various backgrounds and underrepresented
00:47:54.840 --> 00:48:00.900
composers. And so it was sort of by built into
00:48:00.900 --> 00:48:03.860
sort of the concerts and things that I had that
00:48:03.860 --> 00:48:06.340
this relationship with working with composers
00:48:06.340 --> 00:48:10.239
and contemporary music right at the very beginning,
00:48:10.320 --> 00:48:11.920
you know, when I was first sort of starting.
00:48:13.610 --> 00:48:20.329
And so I think that process for me is definitely
00:48:20.329 --> 00:48:23.349
different than coming to a piece that has a longstanding
00:48:23.349 --> 00:48:27.690
tradition of how it's played, right? And finding
00:48:27.690 --> 00:48:33.130
your own voice within that. Even still, in most
00:48:33.130 --> 00:48:36.710
cases, it's sort of like, find your voice within
00:48:36.710 --> 00:48:40.690
that. But the tempo in this section is typically
00:48:40.690 --> 00:48:43.710
between here and here, you know, 80 and 120.
00:48:44.070 --> 00:48:46.590
And you can go outside if you want to, but you
00:48:46.590 --> 00:48:48.429
might sound a little, you know, there's, we have
00:48:48.429 --> 00:48:51.789
some sort of sense of here's parameters and here's
00:48:51.789 --> 00:48:53.829
things and here's the style. But when you're
00:48:53.829 --> 00:48:57.269
coming at a composition that no one's ever played
00:48:57.269 --> 00:49:00.449
before, maybe the composer's never even heard
00:49:00.449 --> 00:49:05.489
anyone play before, it's a mutual process and
00:49:05.489 --> 00:49:12.550
a different. interpretive process I think I've
00:49:12.550 --> 00:49:16.429
learned you definitely have to come at it with
00:49:16.429 --> 00:49:19.550
your own convictions of what you think this music
00:49:19.550 --> 00:49:24.730
is saying and bring that to the composer and
00:49:24.730 --> 00:49:29.409
they can tell you you know I do believe that
00:49:29.409 --> 00:49:31.329
or I don't or I don't or you have it right or
00:49:31.329 --> 00:49:35.579
wrong or whatever but certainly It's hard for
00:49:35.579 --> 00:49:38.059
a piece to come to life if you're just starting
00:49:38.059 --> 00:49:41.420
from, here's the notes, spoon feed me everything
00:49:41.420 --> 00:49:43.599
I need to know. You have to kind of have some
00:49:43.599 --> 00:49:48.340
idea. And so it's that process of engaging, dissecting,
00:49:48.360 --> 00:49:52.480
finding like, having conviction about what the
00:49:52.480 --> 00:49:54.960
music means when you've never heard it before
00:49:54.960 --> 00:50:01.880
to bring something to life. that I think is the
00:50:01.880 --> 00:50:04.159
most exciting part and the part I love the most.
00:50:33.960 --> 00:50:38.059
I want to focus now finally about you being a
00:50:38.059 --> 00:50:42.440
composer and an arranger. And then I think you
00:50:42.440 --> 00:50:45.380
mentioned somewhere, maybe guest form you filled
00:50:45.380 --> 00:50:48.840
out for me or something, and that one of your
00:50:48.840 --> 00:50:53.739
recordings or video clip gained significant attention.
00:50:54.119 --> 00:50:58.539
It went viral, basically. It went over 40 ,000
00:50:58.539 --> 00:51:04.179
views and widely shared. So did that sort of
00:51:04.179 --> 00:51:08.679
ignite your passion toward like, oh, I want to
00:51:08.679 --> 00:51:13.480
do this. I can do this. Yeah, yeah. So it was
00:51:13.480 --> 00:51:15.860
a video of the, you know, it was the Joshua fought
00:51:15.860 --> 00:51:20.880
the Battle of Jericho. And I'd that, you know,
00:51:20.880 --> 00:51:25.760
I think I'd, it was 2020. And it was right after
00:51:25.760 --> 00:51:28.760
sort of George Floyd, the murder of George Floyd,
00:51:28.820 --> 00:51:34.489
that I'd. I'd posted a video of that composition
00:51:34.489 --> 00:51:42.010
and the post was, you know, something like walls,
00:51:42.190 --> 00:51:46.690
justice must stand, walls of oppression must
00:51:46.690 --> 00:51:52.130
fall. And, you know, I talked about the meaning
00:51:52.130 --> 00:51:54.250
of that spiritual Joshua at the Battle of Jericho
00:51:54.250 --> 00:51:57.690
and the walls and all of that. So that was the
00:51:57.690 --> 00:52:01.369
connection there. And yeah, it was sort of to
00:52:01.369 --> 00:52:05.269
my surprise. I hadn't posted it for any other
00:52:05.269 --> 00:52:07.670
reason than what I was feeling, you know, in
00:52:07.670 --> 00:52:12.690
the moment. And I'd been writing a lot of my
00:52:12.690 --> 00:52:16.409
own compositions as a faculty person for my faculty
00:52:16.409 --> 00:52:18.829
recitals, for my other concerts I'd had going
00:52:18.829 --> 00:52:22.269
on, just for me to play in my concerts and things
00:52:22.269 --> 00:52:26.409
like that. So I, you know, had a number of things
00:52:26.409 --> 00:52:30.699
I'd been working on. That video, yeah, for some
00:52:30.699 --> 00:52:34.199
reason sort of caught on and people ask, you
00:52:34.199 --> 00:52:39.579
know, hey, where can I find that and play, you
00:52:39.579 --> 00:52:42.480
know, this piece and, you know, other things,
00:52:42.500 --> 00:52:46.699
you know, I posted of mine that made me think,
00:52:46.780 --> 00:52:50.239
hey, you know, I've always done this throughout
00:52:50.239 --> 00:52:53.260
my life. You know, I can't think of a time where
00:52:53.260 --> 00:52:55.440
I wasn't arranging and writing and composing.
00:52:55.760 --> 00:53:01.670
I'm at some level. And that, yeah, my full authentic
00:53:01.670 --> 00:53:06.369
self musically, this is a part of me that probably
00:53:06.369 --> 00:53:08.710
needs to be in my life, my professional life.
00:53:09.070 --> 00:53:11.110
And so, yeah, it was really around that time
00:53:11.110 --> 00:53:15.869
that I really started merging those things in
00:53:15.869 --> 00:53:21.110
terms of what I do on stage and making that available
00:53:21.110 --> 00:53:26.250
for others. Do you plan to spend more time on...
00:53:26.559 --> 00:53:30.519
being a composer from now on? Like, you know,
00:53:30.519 --> 00:53:39.039
yeah. Um, I think definitely. So, um, I think
00:53:39.039 --> 00:53:43.719
I all, like I said, it's like, what is your authentic
00:53:43.719 --> 00:53:48.800
musical self? And for me, that is being a concert
00:53:48.800 --> 00:53:53.400
pianist. Um, and that is this composition, as
00:53:53.400 --> 00:53:55.820
I said, they'd always been happening together.
00:53:56.039 --> 00:53:58.119
You know, and I was learning my Clementi Sonatinas
00:53:58.119 --> 00:54:04.360
back when, or, you know, the Charnier Tunes.
00:54:04.380 --> 00:54:07.099
I was always still, the practice session would
00:54:07.099 --> 00:54:10.219
involve the improvisation and the handed exercises.
00:54:10.480 --> 00:54:13.139
So they'd never not been together. You know,
00:54:13.159 --> 00:54:18.099
it's just a matter of bringing the full self
00:54:18.099 --> 00:54:22.659
to the stage where I am now in my life. So I
00:54:22.659 --> 00:54:27.269
think. definitely in terms of that aspect, seeing
00:54:27.269 --> 00:54:29.210
those things and bringing those things together
00:54:29.210 --> 00:54:33.929
more is where my passion is. Down the road. I
00:54:33.929 --> 00:54:36.550
know we're going to talk about the album that
00:54:36.550 --> 00:54:39.730
comes out in October too, but do you plan to
00:54:39.730 --> 00:54:43.090
compose like extensive work, like sonatas and
00:54:43.090 --> 00:54:49.329
previews, 24 previews? Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. I will
00:54:49.329 --> 00:54:53.119
see what the future holds in that way. i i love
00:54:53.119 --> 00:54:57.440
sonata form i absolutely love sonata form and
00:54:57.440 --> 00:55:01.800
um brahms is one of my absolute favorite composers
00:55:01.800 --> 00:55:08.639
and i think um my compositions do tend to be
00:55:08.639 --> 00:55:15.769
um i love the arc the narrative arc of of structure
00:55:15.769 --> 00:55:19.070
and form and figuring out how to be organic within
00:55:19.070 --> 00:55:21.309
that and all the things we talk about with Beethoven
00:55:21.309 --> 00:55:25.630
and Brahms and how they made those forms breathe
00:55:25.630 --> 00:55:30.849
and come to life. And so, yeah, that absolutely
00:55:30.849 --> 00:55:36.289
is something that may come. You know, we'll see.
00:55:36.590 --> 00:55:40.269
Oh, that's exciting. That's so exciting. So let's
00:55:40.269 --> 00:55:45.829
talk about your upcoming album, right? So you
00:55:45.829 --> 00:55:51.550
told me, just to me, that the title of the album
00:55:51.550 --> 00:55:56.469
is official. So what is the title of this album?
00:55:56.889 --> 00:56:00.889
Yeah, the title of my upcoming album is Spirit,
00:56:00.989 --> 00:56:04.750
Body, and Soul, Concert Spirituals for Solo Piano.
00:56:05.769 --> 00:56:11.349
Fantastic, which will be out in October of 2026.
00:56:11.809 --> 00:56:16.679
Yeah, it will release on um, Navona records.
00:56:16.820 --> 00:56:19.820
So the Parma label, which is, um, amazing label
00:56:19.820 --> 00:56:23.940
been promoting, um, all kinds of unique, um,
00:56:23.980 --> 00:56:27.260
music and diverse composers and, and everything.
00:56:27.360 --> 00:56:30.519
So it was a real honor to be able to do this
00:56:30.519 --> 00:56:35.219
album, um, with them. And, uh, yeah, it'll be,
00:56:35.219 --> 00:56:39.840
um, all my own compositions, uh, on spirituals.
00:56:39.840 --> 00:56:42.500
So I'm curious about the title, right? The spirit.
00:56:43.019 --> 00:56:45.900
body and soul because you use the same title
00:56:45.900 --> 00:56:50.099
for the concert you gave in uh was it rochester
00:56:50.099 --> 00:56:54.260
right yep yeah so where does this i mean spirit
00:56:54.260 --> 00:56:58.199
body so i understand that yeah yeah where did
00:56:58.199 --> 00:57:02.139
that title um come from i think it that title
00:57:02.139 --> 00:57:10.860
for me came from um just the way i experienced
00:57:10.860 --> 00:57:21.989
um writing this music and what of myself I put
00:57:21.989 --> 00:57:29.489
into this music to bring it to life. So yeah,
00:57:29.650 --> 00:57:34.269
the pieces themselves are, and it's interesting
00:57:34.269 --> 00:57:38.130
with that word arrangement or transcription or
00:57:38.130 --> 00:57:40.789
composition, sometimes I think people struggle
00:57:40.789 --> 00:57:43.889
with some of my pieces where to how to how that
00:57:43.889 --> 00:57:49.230
lands um because i do i definitely write things
00:57:49.230 --> 00:57:51.150
that are more like i would say an arrangement
00:57:51.150 --> 00:57:53.750
here's the tune and you do it a few times and
00:57:53.750 --> 00:57:56.369
you add in different textures and make it sparkle
00:57:56.369 --> 00:58:00.429
but there are a lot of them that are um more
00:58:00.429 --> 00:58:05.070
akin to the process of leader um where you're
00:58:05.070 --> 00:58:08.250
finding what's the psychological underpinnings
00:58:08.250 --> 00:58:13.699
um of what the text is saying and what's the
00:58:13.699 --> 00:58:16.260
compositional structures that bring that to life
00:58:16.260 --> 00:58:20.480
how do you derive the theme organically from
00:58:20.480 --> 00:58:22.679
motives you've taken from the theme but the theme
00:58:22.679 --> 00:58:26.059
doesn't just start you know some there's things
00:58:26.059 --> 00:58:29.820
like that there are processes of um development
00:58:29.820 --> 00:58:34.099
sections and things so um they're definitely
00:58:34.099 --> 00:58:40.519
more uh They feel to me more like compositions
00:58:40.519 --> 00:58:46.960
from my soul than I'm throwing some piano texture
00:58:46.960 --> 00:58:52.539
onto verses, you know, so to speak. So, though
00:58:52.539 --> 00:58:58.420
I love those too, you know. And so the pieces
00:58:58.420 --> 00:59:01.480
are very, I would say, personal. It's just how
00:59:01.480 --> 00:59:07.099
I've realized my preferences. I'm even stronger
00:59:07.099 --> 00:59:11.480
than that. My, where I'm drawn to as a composer
00:59:11.480 --> 00:59:17.739
is I love, I like writing fun things. You know,
00:59:17.739 --> 00:59:19.300
there are these things on the album that I'll
00:59:19.300 --> 00:59:22.440
have things where I'm, you know, the ode to joy
00:59:22.440 --> 00:59:24.860
theme and I take it through different world music
00:59:24.860 --> 00:59:27.659
styles. I love writing fun things. And then there's
00:59:27.659 --> 00:59:31.619
music that is just like from the depths of my
00:59:31.619 --> 00:59:36.210
soul and my body in terms of. like the virtuosity
00:59:36.210 --> 00:59:40.070
and the way to use the piano and the physicality.
00:59:40.690 --> 00:59:44.449
The music I don't, I don't write as much. It's
00:59:44.449 --> 00:59:49.349
sort of like ceremonial march music. And it's
00:59:49.349 --> 00:59:51.670
great. There's a place for that in the world.
00:59:51.929 --> 00:59:55.550
It is everything. But my music has to mean something
00:59:55.550 --> 01:00:00.780
deep to me. And so all of these spirituals that
01:00:00.780 --> 01:00:05.260
I've written these pieces come from that place
01:00:05.260 --> 01:00:08.599
of really living with the spirit of what the
01:00:08.599 --> 01:00:14.119
lyrics communicate and the culture and the place
01:00:14.119 --> 01:00:18.719
and time from which they come from, the physicality
01:00:18.719 --> 01:00:21.920
of the relationship to the instrument and using
01:00:21.920 --> 01:00:27.739
that to draw out. Just an emotional essence and
01:00:27.739 --> 01:00:36.960
conviction. And the soul is the, I think sonically,
01:00:37.019 --> 01:00:41.219
the sound of my music contains the blues and
01:00:41.219 --> 01:00:47.260
it contains rhythm and it contains fire and sort
01:00:47.260 --> 01:00:49.679
of all of these things that. come out of that
01:00:49.679 --> 01:00:53.320
spiritual tradition is for me the sound world
01:00:53.320 --> 01:00:57.039
and the gravity of it and the textures that are
01:00:57.039 --> 01:00:58.559
also a part of it. So that's where that title
01:00:58.559 --> 01:01:02.239
came from. It was sort of organic. I didn't spend
01:01:02.239 --> 01:01:04.039
a lot of time trying to think it up. It sort
01:01:04.039 --> 01:01:05.900
of came naturally after thinking about the music.
01:01:06.920 --> 01:01:11.059
It's wonderful. Then, you know, one would expect
01:01:11.059 --> 01:01:17.489
you to maybe produce an album or a CD of playing
01:01:17.489 --> 01:01:20.909
the list on that with some other classical pieces,
01:01:21.130 --> 01:01:25.570
but you just went with your composition. I did
01:01:25.570 --> 01:01:30.170
for this one. That's awesome. Wow. You really
01:01:30.170 --> 01:01:36.230
did. Yeah, yeah. You know, I could have done
01:01:36.230 --> 01:01:37.989
that, and that's certainly what I do. Like, I
01:01:37.989 --> 01:01:41.670
love playing. You may do in the future. Who knows?
01:01:41.969 --> 01:01:45.840
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, yeah. I totally may. But
01:01:45.840 --> 01:01:49.400
for this one, I just felt like I had something
01:01:49.400 --> 01:01:54.139
I wanted to say with these pieces and my relationship
01:01:54.139 --> 01:01:58.940
to these spirituals throughout my whole life.
01:01:59.099 --> 01:02:01.940
And so it felt like I think this is the place
01:02:01.940 --> 01:02:06.840
to say it in my voice throughout the album. And
01:02:06.840 --> 01:02:10.480
then Joshua fought the Battle of Jericho as part
01:02:10.480 --> 01:02:15.559
of it? It is. Yeah. So this will be the third,
01:02:15.619 --> 01:02:19.099
I guess, commercial recording of it because I'd
01:02:19.099 --> 01:02:20.940
recorded it once before and then the wonderful
01:02:20.940 --> 01:02:25.420
BYU album. But then I re -recorded it for this
01:02:25.420 --> 01:02:30.980
album. You know, I was just like, I think I did
01:02:30.980 --> 01:02:34.199
it the first time by itself. But in the context
01:02:34.199 --> 01:02:37.659
of me living in the world of all of these pieces
01:02:37.659 --> 01:02:39.840
and doing them all together. I think it might
01:02:39.840 --> 01:02:43.400
come out a little differently. So I did it again.
01:02:45.500 --> 01:02:48.880
Repracticed all my parallel chromatic thirds
01:02:48.880 --> 01:02:52.099
that are in that piece and went back in the studio.
01:02:53.000 --> 01:02:55.239
And then what are the other pieces if you can,
01:02:55.400 --> 01:02:58.699
only if you can share? Yeah, sure. No, I definitely
01:02:58.699 --> 01:03:01.420
can. So Joshua fought the Battle of Jericho's.
01:03:01.719 --> 01:03:04.820
On there, I have a set of variations on Ride
01:03:04.820 --> 01:03:08.119
on King Jesus. And it's really two songs, Ride
01:03:08.119 --> 01:03:11.019
on King Jesus and In That Great Gettin' Up Mournin'.
01:03:11.019 --> 01:03:13.360
In the gospel tradition, those are often put
01:03:13.360 --> 01:03:15.659
together and choir sing them together. So the
01:03:15.659 --> 01:03:19.440
variations are on those. Nobody Knows the Trouble
01:03:19.440 --> 01:03:22.239
I've Seen. Sometimes I Feel Like a Motherless
01:03:22.239 --> 01:03:27.829
Child. So I have There is a Balm in Gilead. Go
01:03:27.829 --> 01:03:30.510
Down Moses, Swing Low Sweet Chariot, Every Time
01:03:30.510 --> 01:03:32.289
I Feel the Spirit, and then there's a bonus track.
01:03:33.690 --> 01:03:38.909
Yeah, Lift Every Voice and Sing also, which isn't
01:03:38.909 --> 01:03:42.210
a spiritual technically, but almost an honorary
01:03:42.210 --> 01:03:47.489
one. It's such a summary of... Yes, it's an anthem.
01:03:47.849 --> 01:03:51.710
It is, it is. So it felt like that one needed
01:03:51.710 --> 01:03:55.570
to be on there. Oh my goodness, that's a lot.
01:03:55.960 --> 01:04:00.679
That's a lot that you offer. Generous. Wow. I
01:04:00.679 --> 01:04:04.599
can't wait for the album to come out. Will it
01:04:04.599 --> 01:04:07.159
be available on streaming and also available
01:04:07.159 --> 01:04:15.619
as a CD? Yeah. Mostly digitally. I'll have the
01:04:15.619 --> 01:04:19.920
hard copies too, but through all major streaming
01:04:19.920 --> 01:04:23.159
platforms. Obviously through the label site.
01:04:23.579 --> 01:04:28.789
How about score? Yeah, I'm working on that part
01:04:28.789 --> 01:04:33.110
as we speak to release those. So it might not
01:04:33.110 --> 01:04:37.429
happen exactly simultaneously, but yeah, I definitely
01:04:37.429 --> 01:04:41.110
want to get the scores to everyone as well. Yeah,
01:04:41.110 --> 01:04:45.550
that would be great. So what do you hope the
01:04:45.550 --> 01:04:49.869
listeners to take away from this album? Yeah,
01:04:49.889 --> 01:04:58.659
I think, like I said, the meaning of these pieces
01:04:58.659 --> 01:05:02.760
is so deep. I mean, the spirituals themselves
01:05:02.760 --> 01:05:10.460
and the soul and heart in those pieces as they
01:05:10.460 --> 01:05:17.340
are. And so for me, this was bringing sort of
01:05:17.340 --> 01:05:22.860
living those through the lens of my own life
01:05:22.860 --> 01:05:28.860
and heart. So what I hope, is for something very
01:05:28.860 --> 01:05:35.260
human. The range of those spirituals, if you
01:05:35.260 --> 01:05:38.840
think about the topics, Joshua fought the battle
01:05:38.840 --> 01:05:42.820
of Jericho, and you relate that to sort of fighting
01:05:42.820 --> 01:05:47.820
against, you know, seemingly insurmountable oppression.
01:05:48.460 --> 01:05:51.539
You think of, sometimes I feel like a motherless
01:05:51.539 --> 01:05:55.679
child a long way from home. the darkness, the
01:05:55.679 --> 01:05:59.559
isolation of that sentiment of being away from
01:05:59.559 --> 01:06:02.340
home, motherless. You think of something like
01:06:02.340 --> 01:06:07.920
Swing Low, Sweet Chariot. You know, the sense
01:06:07.920 --> 01:06:11.760
there of coming forward to carry me home. I looked
01:06:11.760 --> 01:06:13.599
over Jordan and what I see, a band of angels
01:06:13.599 --> 01:06:18.079
coming for me from being in heaviness to transporting
01:06:18.079 --> 01:06:23.480
to. a realm beyond this world. And so that piece
01:06:23.480 --> 01:06:25.800
literally does that. It starts in the depths
01:06:25.800 --> 01:06:31.159
and then moves into this beyond. And so it's
01:06:31.159 --> 01:06:33.639
the full gamut of the human experience in those
01:06:33.639 --> 01:06:39.400
spirituals. And so I tried to live deeply into
01:06:39.400 --> 01:06:44.079
the spirit of each one through the lens of what
01:06:44.079 --> 01:06:48.570
I can bring. what I know on the piano. So that's
01:06:48.570 --> 01:06:51.849
what I hope the takeaway is, a human journey,
01:06:51.949 --> 01:06:58.010
a journey of emotion, experience that touches
01:06:58.010 --> 01:07:01.130
hearts. I mean, that's really, for me, what my
01:07:01.130 --> 01:07:05.369
music is. Like I said, someone else can write
01:07:05.369 --> 01:07:08.090
the marches that we need them, but this is what
01:07:08.090 --> 01:07:12.730
I have to write. Amazing. We look forward to
01:07:12.730 --> 01:07:16.610
the release. So best way for my audience to sort
01:07:16.610 --> 01:07:19.929
of get the latest news from you would be the
01:07:19.929 --> 01:07:24.730
social media, Instagram. Yeah. You can find me
01:07:24.730 --> 01:07:28.989
on Instagram, Facebook. I'll often post, you
01:07:28.989 --> 01:07:31.510
know, my arrangements on my website as well.
01:07:32.750 --> 01:07:35.389
And then, you know, there's a YouTube channel
01:07:35.389 --> 01:07:39.630
also. A lot of my, I think I. failed to mention
01:07:39.630 --> 01:07:42.829
that, but a lot of my pieces, you can hear on
01:07:42.829 --> 01:07:46.989
any of those. Thank you. Now, you're also a dedicated
01:07:46.989 --> 01:07:50.929
educator and you're teaching at the college.
01:07:51.710 --> 01:07:54.969
You're associate professor of music and chair
01:07:54.969 --> 01:07:57.690
of music department at Eastern Mennonite University.
01:07:58.250 --> 01:08:03.269
You also wrote pieces for young students, young
01:08:03.269 --> 01:08:07.380
pianists, like, what is it? Since Jesus Came
01:08:07.380 --> 01:08:10.320
Into My Heart, 10 Stylish Arrangements for Solo
01:08:10.320 --> 01:08:17.699
Piano. Yeah, tell me. Yeah, so those pieces were,
01:08:17.880 --> 01:08:20.220
so it was an interesting story with those. I
01:08:20.220 --> 01:08:26.420
talked to a music publisher who sort of worked
01:08:26.420 --> 01:08:29.859
in that realm of church music and everything.
01:08:30.199 --> 01:08:32.760
And, you know, he listened to my Joshua Fought
01:08:32.760 --> 01:08:34.739
the Battle of Jericho piece, which is the one
01:08:34.739 --> 01:08:40.159
he, you know. And he said, this is amazing. I
01:08:40.159 --> 01:08:43.939
love it. I'm not sure your average church pianist
01:08:43.939 --> 01:08:48.840
could pull this off or offer Toriana Sunday,
01:08:49.060 --> 01:08:51.699
you know, might be take a little bit more than
01:08:51.699 --> 01:08:54.979
every one of them has. So would you be willing
01:08:54.979 --> 01:09:00.560
to do a book of intermediate level pieces? So
01:09:00.560 --> 01:09:02.859
it was a little bit different than what I was
01:09:02.859 --> 01:09:06.880
doing in my. pieces I was writing for me on the
01:09:06.880 --> 01:09:11.220
concert stage or for other pianists sort of in
01:09:11.220 --> 01:09:16.159
this same world of concert piano were doing.
01:09:16.220 --> 01:09:20.479
So that sort of was what the challenge was. And
01:09:20.479 --> 01:09:25.579
so playing in church was a big part of my training
01:09:25.579 --> 01:09:31.079
growing up and my childhood. So it is a book
01:09:31.079 --> 01:09:34.560
of solo piano arrangements of different hymns.
01:09:35.979 --> 01:09:40.880
And so different styles. Some of them are really
01:09:40.880 --> 01:09:43.760
influenced by Brahms and Rachmaninoff and composers
01:09:43.760 --> 01:09:46.600
like that. And then some of them are jazzy. Some
01:09:46.600 --> 01:09:51.359
of them are sort of Southern church gospel. But
01:09:51.359 --> 01:09:53.880
all at the intermediate level. I think for me,
01:09:53.899 --> 01:09:58.109
the challenge was. I'm not writing for myself.
01:09:58.310 --> 01:10:02.770
And here's what I hear. Here's what I can do,
01:10:02.909 --> 01:10:06.590
you know, in this case. So it makes you a better
01:10:06.590 --> 01:10:09.909
composer in some ways because you economy, right?
01:10:09.989 --> 01:10:14.130
You learn to do say what you want to say with
01:10:14.130 --> 01:10:19.529
less in some cases. And yeah, I think for me
01:10:19.529 --> 01:10:21.689
in a similar way as I'm talking about in terms
01:10:21.689 --> 01:10:24.840
of my concert arrangements, spirituals. Even
01:10:24.840 --> 01:10:27.260
in this context, I want to write music that I
01:10:27.260 --> 01:10:31.680
felt I believed in. You know, I think sometimes
01:10:31.680 --> 01:10:36.720
in the church music I've played growing up, you
01:10:36.720 --> 01:10:38.359
know, the arrangements I'd gotten to play in
01:10:38.359 --> 01:10:42.539
church, some really great ones, some were like
01:10:42.539 --> 01:10:45.260
key changes for no reason and glissandos up and
01:10:45.260 --> 01:10:49.939
down. There's a lot of that out there, too. And,
01:10:50.000 --> 01:10:51.979
you know, I'm playing these things at the same
01:10:51.979 --> 01:10:54.920
time I'm studying the Pathetique Sonata. And
01:10:54.920 --> 01:10:58.159
there's a disconnect there between sort of a
01:10:58.159 --> 01:11:05.100
musical language, sometimes integrity of the
01:11:05.100 --> 01:11:08.359
pieces. And so for me, it was important to, even
01:11:08.359 --> 01:11:10.960
at this level, if it's for a 10 -year -old pianist,
01:11:11.060 --> 01:11:13.520
if it's for an 80 -year -old retired pianist,
01:11:13.619 --> 01:11:21.260
whatever it is, that the music speaks. is organic
01:11:21.260 --> 01:11:24.479
so so that's sort of something I impose on myself
01:11:24.479 --> 01:11:27.140
in addition to make it easy enough right sure
01:11:27.140 --> 01:11:30.640
it's hard to balance though the technique you
01:11:30.640 --> 01:11:34.720
know how far you can go versus you know you don't
01:11:34.720 --> 01:11:38.260
want to compromise the style or taste even right
01:11:38.260 --> 01:11:43.119
right right cheesy way you just you said you
01:11:43.119 --> 01:11:46.800
put it the right way yeah cheesy so so yeah for
01:11:46.800 --> 01:11:53.859
me that was sort of the um the leading, the guideposts
01:11:53.859 --> 01:11:56.619
for how I was going to write, you know, at this
01:11:56.619 --> 01:12:03.000
level. What do you think about teaching improvisation
01:12:03.000 --> 01:12:08.380
in piano lessons? Oh, yeah. Well, in terms of
01:12:08.380 --> 01:12:12.979
what I do, you know, and I teach, I definitely
01:12:12.979 --> 01:12:17.340
have students with a range of interests. And
01:12:17.340 --> 01:12:21.369
I think that's not uncommon in our current world
01:12:21.369 --> 01:12:26.529
of piano teaching. No longer, and I think this
01:12:26.529 --> 01:12:30.390
is a wonderful thing, is that every sort of piece,
01:12:30.569 --> 01:12:33.289
your entire relationship to the piano is through
01:12:33.289 --> 01:12:36.869
your teacher and what pieces they give you. You
01:12:36.869 --> 01:12:39.069
know, people are going on YouTube and learning
01:12:39.069 --> 01:12:43.289
piano and can play pieces. I had students come
01:12:43.289 --> 01:12:46.350
to me with, you know, they'd play for a lease
01:12:46.350 --> 01:12:49.050
because they'd learn it by, you know, video.
01:12:49.689 --> 01:12:51.909
But they don't know any scales. What do you do
01:12:51.909 --> 01:12:54.130
as a piano? It's a different landscape of teaching
01:12:54.130 --> 01:12:57.109
piano. But you certainly, I think for me, the
01:12:57.109 --> 01:13:00.109
last thing I want to do is discourage passion
01:13:00.109 --> 01:13:05.189
or interest. So somehow continue to do like invest
01:13:05.189 --> 01:13:07.590
in all of those things that you find interesting.
01:13:07.989 --> 01:13:13.729
And let's also learn a D major scale and all
01:13:13.729 --> 01:13:16.210
of those things together. So, you know, I really
01:13:16.210 --> 01:13:19.920
try to. when my students come to me, see what
01:13:19.920 --> 01:13:25.520
their passions are and, um, help them to become
01:13:25.520 --> 01:13:28.119
a better pianist in the way tried and true ways
01:13:28.119 --> 01:13:31.840
we all, uh, know and, and Hannon and Cherney
01:13:31.840 --> 01:13:35.060
and all of those. And at the same time, how can
01:13:35.060 --> 01:13:37.579
you kind of pursue other things you're interested
01:13:37.579 --> 01:13:40.659
in, um, at the instrument. And a lot of that
01:13:40.659 --> 01:13:43.720
has to do with improvisation. So, um, so I do
01:13:43.720 --> 01:13:45.800
incorporate that into my lessons. I'll have some
01:13:45.800 --> 01:13:49.300
students. We're working on Chopin and that'll
01:13:49.300 --> 01:13:52.800
be 30 minutes. And then 20 minutes is a piece
01:13:52.800 --> 01:13:55.800
they're sort of working on on their own or I'm
01:13:55.800 --> 01:13:59.560
teaching them jazz improvisation or in a way
01:13:59.560 --> 01:14:02.699
it mimics some of my early years where I was
01:14:02.699 --> 01:14:05.079
doing my Clementi Sonatinos and sort of taking
01:14:05.079 --> 01:14:07.460
breaks and improvising. But now it's become a
01:14:07.460 --> 01:14:11.380
part of my pedagogical life. Wow. Do you teach
01:14:11.380 --> 01:14:14.359
college students, but also do you teach younger
01:14:14.359 --> 01:14:18.840
ones too? I have some, I have some younger students,
01:14:19.000 --> 01:14:22.579
not a ton right now. And the only, the primary
01:14:22.579 --> 01:14:26.720
reason for that is just because I have kids too.
01:14:26.880 --> 01:14:31.260
And so it's the challenge of, if you know what
01:14:31.260 --> 01:14:34.760
I mean, right? Like the teaching times are, you
01:14:34.760 --> 01:14:38.020
know, times where you, you know, my kid has a
01:14:38.020 --> 01:14:40.500
basketball game or I. coach my kids baseball
01:14:40.500 --> 01:14:44.699
team and things like that. So, um, so I tend
01:14:44.699 --> 01:14:49.279
to not take too many students outside of, um,
01:14:49.439 --> 01:14:53.460
the university hours I teach, um, right now,
01:14:53.460 --> 01:14:57.699
but I definitely love, um, I've sort of worked
01:14:57.699 --> 01:15:00.119
with the younger ones in masterclass capacities
01:15:00.119 --> 01:15:03.000
and, um, you know, sometimes they'll come to
01:15:03.000 --> 01:15:04.720
me cause they will, they're piano teachers more
01:15:04.720 --> 01:15:07.090
used to the classical and then they'll. their
01:15:07.090 --> 01:15:08.789
teacher wants them to learn improvisation. And
01:15:08.789 --> 01:15:10.649
so they'll send them to me for a little while
01:15:10.649 --> 01:15:13.250
and things like that too. And I teach my son.
01:15:13.630 --> 01:15:19.409
Yeah. You teach your son? Yeah. Wonderful. That's
01:15:19.409 --> 01:15:24.710
so fantastic. Okay. So, I mean, from today's
01:15:24.710 --> 01:15:27.989
conversation, you know, I think you inspired
01:15:27.989 --> 01:15:32.649
us to sort of, to find your own voice through
01:15:32.649 --> 01:15:36.140
what you do. And I think your work. you showed
01:15:36.140 --> 01:15:40.119
us that you're very intentional about what you
01:15:40.119 --> 01:15:45.880
do. And so how was it to, was it difficult to
01:15:45.880 --> 01:15:50.300
find your own way, own path, own voice? Yeah,
01:15:50.340 --> 01:15:55.939
no, that's a good, good question. I, finding
01:15:55.939 --> 01:16:06.460
and sort of living into are, are two different
01:16:06.460 --> 01:16:14.899
things maybe. So I think all of those elements
01:16:14.899 --> 01:16:19.119
of my musical life had always been in the picture
01:16:19.119 --> 01:16:22.880
and been there. But I think, you know, at certain
01:16:22.880 --> 01:16:27.279
times it'd be sort of siloed, right? Like I want
01:16:27.279 --> 01:16:29.600
to focus on being a concert pianist. So that
01:16:29.600 --> 01:16:32.579
means put this to the side and that to the side.
01:16:33.390 --> 01:16:42.170
do these things. And I think as I've grown older,
01:16:42.210 --> 01:16:46.149
I'm not that, I still got some ways to go, hopefully.
01:16:47.250 --> 01:16:53.569
But I've got a few years behind me that they
01:16:53.569 --> 01:16:58.069
can live together. And that is my authentic musical
01:16:58.069 --> 01:17:06.380
self. And all of my passion for the great composers,
01:17:06.479 --> 01:17:12.880
for contemporary music, for good old church music,
01:17:12.920 --> 01:17:16.300
for jazz, all of those things. They can find
01:17:16.300 --> 01:17:22.939
a way to live together in my identity as an artist,
01:17:23.260 --> 01:17:28.289
not just in the practice room. but for others.
01:17:28.770 --> 01:17:34.989
So I think that part of my self and professional
01:17:34.989 --> 01:17:39.189
career is something that's taken a while to see
01:17:39.189 --> 01:17:41.590
how those all come together, but it was never
01:17:41.590 --> 01:17:46.989
knowing what I was passionate about for me. Now,
01:17:47.050 --> 01:17:49.949
I know that October is a big, big month for you,
01:17:50.010 --> 01:17:52.789
but other than that, is there any other exciting
01:17:52.789 --> 01:17:55.529
projects or collaborations coming up for you?
01:17:56.390 --> 01:18:00.510
Oh, yeah. Well, I have other concerts coming
01:18:00.510 --> 01:18:06.590
up that I'm looking forward to. A piece I've
01:18:06.590 --> 01:18:09.050
loved all my life is the Schumann Piano Quintet.
01:18:09.130 --> 01:18:11.649
So I have that coming up around the same time
01:18:11.649 --> 01:18:17.270
in the fall. I have a Bach D minor concerto coming
01:18:17.270 --> 01:18:21.710
up in the fall as well. So I'll have a lot to
01:18:21.710 --> 01:18:25.640
do at the piano. And I'll also play. I have some
01:18:25.640 --> 01:18:29.039
performances of this, this album, live performances
01:18:29.039 --> 01:18:32.659
sort of coming up and a lot of different sort
01:18:32.659 --> 01:18:34.960
of other, other things like that, that I'm looking
01:18:34.960 --> 01:18:39.100
forward to just kind of living into doing, doing
01:18:39.100 --> 01:18:41.220
all of those different things. Cause they all
01:18:41.220 --> 01:18:44.939
are passion projects for me. Wow. From Bach to
01:18:44.939 --> 01:18:49.300
Schumann to spirituals. Wow. Yeah. That's so
01:18:49.300 --> 01:18:53.220
cool. An interesting connection there. And I've
01:18:53.220 --> 01:18:55.180
got to write something about this maybe someday.
01:18:55.420 --> 01:19:01.779
If you think of Schumann, so I played Carnival.
01:19:02.000 --> 01:19:07.239
And in there, there are passages that, I mean,
01:19:07.239 --> 01:19:11.739
it's the same technique as stride piano. Literally
01:19:11.739 --> 01:19:16.960
the same jumping technique and all of that. There's
01:19:16.960 --> 01:19:19.829
this idea of... There are certain textures, there
01:19:19.829 --> 01:19:22.210
are certain types of things that universally
01:19:22.210 --> 01:19:26.729
means this idea of like just joyfulness and the
01:19:26.729 --> 01:19:29.029
liveliness and the energy, whether that's James
01:19:29.029 --> 01:19:31.090
V. Johnson or Schumann, there's something about
01:19:31.090 --> 01:19:33.909
that left -hand note jumping up to a chord quickly
01:19:33.909 --> 01:19:38.329
that kind of captures that feeling. So all kinds
01:19:38.329 --> 01:19:40.170
of connections, you know, they're not as far
01:19:40.170 --> 01:20:11.590
apart as we think. For our listeners, I encourage
01:20:11.590 --> 01:20:16.770
you to visit David Berry's website at davidberrypiano
01:20:16.770 --> 01:20:25.170
.com and follow him on Instagram at dberr4. And
01:20:25.170 --> 01:20:28.529
be sure to look for his upcoming solo album of
01:20:28.529 --> 01:20:33.829
spirituals on Nirvana and Parma records and scheduled
01:20:33.829 --> 01:20:37.850
for release this October. So before I let you
01:20:37.850 --> 01:20:40.619
go, David. We have one more thing to do. The
01:20:40.619 --> 01:20:43.859
Pianopods rapid fire questions. Now we take this
01:20:43.859 --> 01:20:47.779
segment very seriously. And you've shared wonderful
01:20:47.779 --> 01:20:52.539
stories about an expertise of your artistry today.
01:20:52.619 --> 01:20:55.979
But these questions carefully curated by our
01:20:55.979 --> 01:20:58.859
team, which is me, will give our listeners a
01:20:58.859 --> 01:21:02.359
glimpse into who you truly are. So let's do this.
01:21:02.600 --> 01:21:05.680
I wanted to answer each question with the shortest
01:21:05.680 --> 01:21:08.270
response possible. You don't have to explain
01:21:08.270 --> 01:21:12.550
anything. Okay. All right. So question number
01:21:12.550 --> 01:21:16.090
one, what is your comfort food? Comfort food.
01:21:16.229 --> 01:21:22.369
Oh, I'm going to say mac and cheese. How do you
01:21:22.369 --> 01:21:25.609
like your coffee in the morning? Milk, couple
01:21:25.609 --> 01:21:30.449
sugars. Just two. Just two. All right. Cats or
01:21:30.449 --> 01:21:35.529
dogs? Oh, I'm going to go dogs. Sunrise or sunset?
01:21:36.109 --> 01:21:40.590
I'm going to say sunset. Okay. Summer or winter?
01:21:42.430 --> 01:21:45.710
Summer. Yeah, I'm going to go summer. Okay. What
01:21:45.710 --> 01:21:48.510
skill have you always wanted to learn but haven't
01:21:48.510 --> 01:21:51.149
had a chance to? I would love to learn how to,
01:21:51.229 --> 01:21:59.050
like, sword fight. That's a weird one. Yeah.
01:21:59.189 --> 01:22:03.689
Not fencing. Not like fencing, but like. Samurai
01:22:03.689 --> 01:22:08.590
sword. Really? Oh, that's cool. No, no judgment.
01:22:08.689 --> 01:22:12.050
That's cool. What is your word or words to live
01:22:12.050 --> 01:22:17.770
by? Passion and heart. Favorite venue you have
01:22:17.770 --> 01:22:21.329
ever performed in or dream venue? It may sound
01:22:21.329 --> 01:22:24.649
like everybody might say this, but there's something
01:22:24.649 --> 01:22:26.630
about that first time of stepping on the Carnegie
01:22:26.630 --> 01:22:28.989
Hall stage when you've been dreaming of it your
01:22:28.989 --> 01:22:35.159
whole life, you know? Yeah. Why a hall? Oh, I
01:22:35.159 --> 01:22:39.039
would say Zanko, you know, seeing Horowitz and
01:22:39.039 --> 01:22:40.979
all of those guys, you know, and then I'm here,
01:22:41.199 --> 01:22:43.699
you know, you can feel it. Yeah. What is the
01:22:43.699 --> 01:22:45.939
most important quality you look for in other
01:22:45.939 --> 01:22:51.439
people? Just an honest spirit. Name a composer
01:22:51.439 --> 01:22:56.260
you wish more people knew about. Oh, well, we've
01:22:56.260 --> 01:22:59.560
talked about him a lot. George Walker, I cannot
01:22:59.560 --> 01:23:04.180
preach. about George Walker and us. Great. Name
01:23:04.180 --> 01:23:07.239
one piece in your current playlist. It doesn't
01:23:07.239 --> 01:23:10.199
have to be classical music. I'm going to go with
01:23:10.199 --> 01:23:16.020
It's the End of the Road, Boyz II Men. Great.
01:23:17.399 --> 01:23:19.859
If you could go back and give your younger self
01:23:19.859 --> 01:23:23.600
one piece of advice, what would it be? Investigate
01:23:23.600 --> 01:23:27.300
everything and love everything you do. Great.
01:23:27.460 --> 01:23:30.619
The last one. Fill in the blank. Music is blank.
01:23:31.130 --> 01:23:36.029
is life. Ah, great. David, thank you so much
01:23:36.029 --> 01:23:39.829
for joining us today for our season finale. Yeah.
01:23:40.250 --> 01:23:42.470
It's been an honor. Thank you so much for having
01:23:42.470 --> 01:23:44.810
me. Thank you. What a wonderful way to close
01:23:44.810 --> 01:23:47.149
out this season of Creativity and Connection.
01:23:47.149 --> 01:23:50.109
Thank you for sharing your artistry. your journey
01:23:50.109 --> 01:23:53.489
and thoughtful reflections on performance, composition,
01:23:53.670 --> 01:23:57.029
spirituals and improvisation and so on. Your
01:23:57.029 --> 01:23:59.449
work reminds us that the artistry does not have
01:23:59.449 --> 01:24:02.010
to be one dimensional. It can be rooted in, you
01:24:02.010 --> 01:24:04.710
know, tradition while still being personal and
01:24:04.710 --> 01:24:07.850
current, culturally engaged and deeply human.
01:24:07.930 --> 01:24:12.409
So for our listeners, please follow David Berry's
01:24:12.409 --> 01:24:15.270
work at davidberrypiano .com and on Instagram
01:24:15.270 --> 01:24:22.029
at d -b -e -r -r -4 and stay tuned for his upcoming
01:24:22.029 --> 01:24:27.550
solo album of spirituals on nirvana parma records
01:24:27.550 --> 01:24:32.109
this october um and be sure to like this video
01:24:32.109 --> 01:24:34.430
subscribe to the piano pod and leave a comment
01:24:34.430 --> 01:24:37.289
to let us know what stayed with you from this
01:24:37.289 --> 01:24:39.850
conversation we will see you next time on the
01:24:39.850 --> 01:24:44.069
piano pod thank you david And before we say goodbye,
01:24:44.310 --> 01:24:46.810
I want to leave a personal message to our listeners.
01:24:46.989 --> 01:24:50.970
Thank you. Thank you for making this such an
01:24:50.970 --> 01:24:54.569
incredible season. What began with Chad Lawson
01:24:54.569 --> 01:24:57.689
and our theme of creativity and connection grew
01:24:57.689 --> 01:25:01.189
into a year of thoughtful conversations, new
01:25:01.189 --> 01:25:04.630
friendships, and unforgettable moments. Together,
01:25:04.930 --> 01:25:08.289
we celebrated curiosity, creativity, and the
01:25:08.289 --> 01:25:11.729
many ways music helps us connect across cultures,
01:25:11.869 --> 01:25:15.829
disciplines, and generations. We also took a
01:25:15.829 --> 01:25:19.090
leap of faith and hosted our first ever live
01:25:19.090 --> 01:25:23.380
event at Manist Prep's Stiefel Hall. Seeing so
01:25:23.380 --> 01:25:26.039
many people gather in one room for music and
01:25:26.039 --> 01:25:28.579
conversation remains one of the proudest moments
01:25:28.579 --> 01:25:32.739
in the history of the show. Now, the PianoPod
01:25:32.739 --> 01:25:36.600
will be taking a short summer hiatus and will
01:25:36.600 --> 01:25:40.640
return in September with Season 7 centered on
01:25:40.640 --> 01:25:45.720
the new theme, Culture and Courage. Until then!
01:25:46.140 --> 01:25:49.399
I'll be sharing weekly excerpts and in case you
01:25:49.399 --> 01:25:52.560
missed it moments from this season, so be sure
01:25:52.560 --> 01:25:55.640
to keep an eye on our YouTube channel and social
01:25:55.640 --> 01:25:58.880
media throughout the summer. And if there is
01:25:58.880 --> 01:26:02.239
an artist, educator, composer, or creative voice
01:26:02.239 --> 01:26:05.039
you would love to hear on the show next season,
01:26:05.180 --> 01:26:08.199
I would love to hear from you. In the meantime,
01:26:08.520 --> 01:26:11.600
keep listening, keep creating, keep practicing
01:26:11.600 --> 01:26:15.029
the piano, and most importantly, Keep finding
01:26:15.029 --> 01:26:18.750
ways to connect. Have a wonderful summer, and
01:26:18.750 --> 01:26:22.470
I will see you in September for Season 7 of The
01:26:22.470 --> 01:26:23.010
Piano Pod.