Most Home Service Companies Are Wasting Their Best Leads (Referral Marketing Blueprint)

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Talking about how to drive referrals into the business.
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83% of homeowners are willing to refer your business, and only 29% actually do.
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Hey, the biggest companies in our industry are hiring teams just to run this process because it is so important.
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That's what most people don't realize.
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There's so much more meat left on the bone.
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It's administratively burdensome to like track those referral engines.
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You can either build trust or you lose trust.
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And most businesses that do that manually, it's easy to lose.
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You have to have automation.
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If it's manual, it just doesn't work.
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The referral engine's really real.
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Welcome back to Owned and Operated, a Top 200 Business and Entrepreneurship Podcast.
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My name is John Wilson, and I am your host.
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On the show, we talk about how to grow your home service company and generally just bullshit on the internet.
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Today I am bringing back Murphy Nadal from Refer Pro.
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Yeah, we just had Jan a couple months ago.
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Yeah, this is good to be back in uh in Cleveland with you here.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, no, this is fun.
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We had uh we're we're at our breaking five workshop, and we've got uh two folks from your team.
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Uh it's Parker and Clint.
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Yeah.
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Clint.
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They're out there.
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They're out there.
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Um, and they're just slugging AirPods like nobody's business, which was pretty fun.
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Yeah.
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Um, but yeah, no, welcome back.
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This will be a lot of fun.
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Uh it was a fun conversation.
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So we we yesterday at the in our workshop, we're talking referral marketing and we're talking uh this is our fifth breaking five workshop.
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And I promise that this will become relevant.
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It was our fifth breaking shop uh breaking five workshop, and we're so two and a half years because we host it every six months.
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Yeah.
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And what's kind of funny about it is how we started and like the conversation was like, hey, there's some pretty like clear guidelines on you do this at this time in your business cycle, and you know, uh, but over the last two years, technology is like totally different.
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Yeah, and so suddenly all these like kind of set in stone rules on like, hey, here's CSRs, here's how you think about dispatch, and um, a lot of it has gone like gotten way more flexible.
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And referral technology, I think, is a really interesting version of that, where you've got like it is a high automation, high lead gen source for the business that didn't even exist, I don't think, three years ago when we started this workshop.
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So, anyways, it was it was fun to have the guys out because they were like sort of explaining it, and uh yeah, yeah, it's great.
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You got a great crew in there at the Breaking Fives Million Workshop, it's awesome.
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Yeah, it's funny.
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Yes, 40 guys, 40 guys this year.
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Yeah, 40 guys and gals.
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It's growing, it's growing, it's a good crew, lots of energy in there.
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It's fun to yeah, talk referrals.
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Yeah, I mean you say it's changed in the past three years, 100%, like zero to a hundred, even the past six months with the technology that we have now with AI and automation, it's changing daily at this point.
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So it's pretty exciting.
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Yeah, yeah.
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The uh uh another fun thing that was just it, it'll be interesting to see like how it lands, but the um this is probably our this is our largest cohort through the program, but it's also the largest average business size.
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It's called breaking five, and there's like 10 people in that room at above 10 million.
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We're gonna have to move it to breaking 25.
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I don't know what we're gonna have to do.
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They're growing because they all come to the conference.
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They're like, hey, so we're at 9 million, and I'm like, all right, what are we doing here?
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It's because they've come in the past years.
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Yeah, you're helping them grow.
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You gotta raise the ceiling now.
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It sounds like that's good.
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I guess so.
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I guess so accomplishing its goal.
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So today we're talking referrals, we're talking about how to drive referrals into the business.
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Um, where do you want to start?
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I talk to a ton of home service owners, and if you're anything like the one to five million dollar shops that I know, you're probably getting hammered with AI pitches right now.
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Most of them sound great until they hit the real world and just completely fall apart.
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The one that we keep coming back to is Voka.
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What stands out is they actually understand how contractor businesses operate.
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This isn't just another AI answering service.
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Avoca handles inbound calls, outbound follow-ups, texts, web leads, even dispatching, all in one system built specifically for service companies.
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If you're on Service Titan, then this is a big deal.
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Their integration is deep, so you're not duct taping together five different tools and hoping that nothing breaks during your busy season.
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I also respect that they're realistic about AI.
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When a call needs a human, they've got a 24-7 live transfer built in, so nothing slips through the cracks and your customers don't get stuck in a bad experience or like an AI loop.
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Owners using Avoka are seeing hold times basically disappear and booking rates jump, some by 30% or more.
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If you want an AI partner that actually helps you book more jobs without creating more chaos, this is worth checking out.
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Book a demo at the link below.
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You want to start?
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Yeah, I mean it's in the name ReferPro.
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That's what we do.
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It's our bread and butter.
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Yeah.
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It's uh it's a fun space.
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I mean, we're not reinventing the wheel.
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Everyone that listens to this knows the power of a referral.
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Yeah.
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Um, I think that there's there's a lot of uh opportunity meat left on the bone with referrals, right?
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I think most people think of referrals as an organic opportunity.
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Yes.
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There's this stat that 83% of homeowners are willing to refer your business, and only 29% actually do.
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So that's crazy to me.
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83% are willing, only 29% actually do.
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So there's essentially this 54% referral gap of happy customers, this database, this gold mine of people who you've done the hard part, you've built the trust, you did a good job, you answered their, you know, they gave you a five-star review, whatever it is.
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And 54% of them aren't referring you.
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So we know exactly why that is.
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We've got tons of data, tens of millions of homeowners, A-B testing.
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There's a lot of data that goes into this.
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Three main reasons.
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One, your business isn't front of mind, and your referral program's not front of mind.
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So one, they've got to remember your business six months later, 12 months later.
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They need to know that you have a referral program.
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That helps a lot when they understand, hey, there's a referral program they're offering up to$250 for every successful referral.
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They need to know how to submit that, what the process is, it needs to be frictionless, right?
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So, number two is it needs to be easy, no friction.
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Yeah, that's manual the way that we do it today, sending a two or three-way text, and then that lead gets lost becomes very tricky.
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Third, there needs to be an incentive in place and it needs to get paid out.
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So what we see is staying front of mind, easy to do and incentivized.
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That closes the feedback loop.
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But yeah, what happens is most people aren't even staying front of mind.
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It's kind of lifestyle, lifecycle marketing piece.
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Number two is traditional way you just define life.
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So we've started talking way more about lifecycle marketing on the show.
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Yeah.
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Uh, you want to just spend a second and define that?
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Yeah, I think there's probably a few different ways you can look at it, but in my mind, it's it's staying front of mind with your customers.
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So, whatever that is for for your business, it might be you want to get um service calls or you know, it might be repairs or installs, it might be um membership requests, reviews, whatever it is you're trying to target, shoulder season, it might be something different, right?
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Weather-related events, but basically dripping and staying front of mind with your customers.
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I think it's SMS and email is what we're really good at uh as part of that kind of foundation to drive referral business, but there's other channels as well.
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So staying front of mind.
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I'm gonna click a little bit more just to help the listener because I I think this is where the uh one of the things I hear the most about like referral technology or like contacting our customers basically, yeah, is I don't understand the point of it.
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So we're just like we'll focus on this for a second.
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Yeah.
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Uh I think it was Wrench Group, it might have been Redwood, but they just hired uh director of life cycle marketing.
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And so to sort of like, hey, this is uh this is its own thing.
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So as we as we talk about marketing on the show, it's usually like how do we get that customer file inside our software, inside our CRM or whatever?
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How do we get their name, their phone number, their email, and get that first job?
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And lifecycle marketing is taking that first contact, first job and turning it into a repeat customer, uh, which makes that first$80 that you spent to get that lead way more impactful.
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So I just want to like help click on like it's real.
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Uh the biggest companies in the industry are focusing even more and like even separate marketing teams for lifecycle marketing versus like lead gen marketing.
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Um, and I think we think about the same way internally.
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Yeah, yeah, that's interesting.
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I think another way to put it too is that that lifecycle marketing helps improve the lifetime value of that customer.
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You said that that initial$80, that's great.
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You go get the one job.
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Yeah, it makes sense.
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But how much more valuable is that$80 over the next five years if you attack that properly?
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And I think 95% of companies don't do that properly.
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So a year later, that same customer that you paid for last year is now is now spending money on Google with another business and you just lost that customer, right?
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So it may and it it it makes your lead gen way more effective.
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It makes uh like it allows the business to become more and more um immune to like uh algorithmic changes from Google.
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Uh so yeah, our a big part of our success over the last like three years, we we didn't know the term lifestyle cycle marketing until late last year.
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Like a big part of our success has been that.
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So app on calling, app on texting, app on email, and just like constantly trying to stay top of mind as people have a need.
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So I just wanted to like spend a second on that because I think that's where people get lost in the sauce on this is hey, it's not a lead today, you're not telling me how to use Google better.
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And it's like, hey, the biggest companies in our industry are hiring teams just to run this process because it is so important.
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You can go get all the customer files in the world, but like what do you do with them?
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Yeah, yeah, exactly.
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You guys have done a good job of that.
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And I mean, Tommy, Tommy and his team at A1, they call it Army of Advocates.
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Yeah, they've got this, whether it's your customers that we'll talk about, it's your employees, your technicians out in the field, you've got affiliates, other businesses, you're creating this life cycle, lifestyle market, lifecycle marketing that is building the foundation for everything you're doing.
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Whether it's now there's immediate results that come from that.
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There's also that builds momentum over time if you do it right.
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It's more powerful a year, two, three years later.
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Yeah.
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If it's done properly and personalized, I think that's what's changed so much in the past six months, year, even since last time that we were talking at this table.
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Yeah.
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Is the ability to personalize that.
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Your customer Jane and your customer John are totally different people and they have different profiles.
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So if you treat them the same and you send them the same message, it's fine, it still works, right?
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It's not that you know, brute outbound doesn't it, it still works, but it's so much more efficient and you can get so much more revenue and ROI from that if you touch base with them with specific touch points.
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So that could be who is the technician, what kind of service do they have done six, twelve, twelve months ago.
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With ReferPro specifically, it's how do they redeem their reward?
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Did they use that on a charity?
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We know what motivates them intrinsically if they did that, or did they use it on a Delta flight, or do they take their family to Disneyland, right?
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So, or do they do it Venmo directly to their bank account?
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So there's ways to motivate people, and every single individual is different, whether it's a technician or a customer.
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And that's I think the value here of this foundation of lifecycle marketing is if you treat everyone the same, you're still gonna get results, but there's there's a huge lever you can pull with personalization, and that's where AI and this automation and this foundation data foundation layer and how to accurately organize that uh can bring a ton of results.
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That's interesting.
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I think uh we haven't like pressed as hard on this as we need to, um like internally, like specifically the referral side of the business.
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And every time I start to think about it, I'm like, God, we have to like we have to push harder on this.
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Because it it's uh the easy win, and it's probably like from your perspective, the easiest win is like, hey, you can pitch revenue to like a me or like another contractor out there, because it's like, yeah, you'll get your money back.
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But um I think it like recruitment would be fascinating, like getting referral in building a referral program inside your own team.
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We have a restoration, and I think I brought this up last time too, but like we have a restoration company and like a referral engine based on that for like home inspectors or whatever the B2B side of that is would be fascinating because you can pay$500.
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Yeah, you can use it for internal.
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Like, um there was a uh it's kind of administratively burdensome to manage internal referrals.
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So I'm a plumber and I go out to a job and I notice a like HVAC system that has a bunch of condensate on the water or uh like a condensate water on the floor around the system.
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And like I feel like all of those are like really easy applications of the same product.
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Yeah, like are people using it that way or am I just like making shit up?
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Yeah, no, Apex, I mean we work with Apex, they they love that.
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They're obviously a big a lot of these PE platforms have hundreds of techs, it's not scalable.
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Uh there they need to find more scalable ways to bring in technicians.
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That's a big problem, right?
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Yeah, one side you've got, hey, we need more revenue.
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I think that's true for every business, that's the goal.
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But also in order to get that, sometimes their their techs are actually too busy.
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That's a great problem to have, but it's a it's another choke point that you've got to go higher for that.
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So yeah, absolutely.
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So some of the biggest in the industry are using this technology to drive.
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Yeah, I mean, that was that was direct feedback from Apex is hey, this is what we want to do.
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I mean, it makes total sense to me.
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It makes total sense.
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It's like anything that's anything that there is like an action, it's almost affiliate, right?
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Anything that there's an action that can be tracked and is worth being paid out for, which like there's kind of a lot.
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Like, yeah, there's the customer referral component, but like recruitment alone, I mean, this is a hell of a drug.
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Yeah, 100%.
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I mean, we look at this as referral wedge, like last year at this time we were dominating referrals, and we still are.
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That's a huge use case with customers.
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But that's the great thing about working with all these great companies.
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Yeah, HVAC Plumbing Electrical Roofing across the country and internationally, is they tell us, hey, this is great.
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We're also using it for our technicians.
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Great.
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That's a huge product line for us now.
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We're also using it for affiliates or B2B.
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We're able to source referrals from other businesses, right?
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Like for your restoration company, I think a lot of that business comes from plumbers, I would imagine.
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So it's it's the ability to transact B2B on leads that wouldn't otherwise be service and they can then be taken by that.
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Yeah.
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And then, yeah, recruiting all these different areas, lifecycle marketing, staying front of mind with your customers and all the different value ads.
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So it's win back, right?
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It started as referrals, but when you're staying front of mind with lifecycle marketing, we're getting almost just as much revenue now from people coming back two, three, four years later that that we're gonna go to Google and find this business elsewhere.
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But they with the lifecycle marketing, they were able to come back and say, Hey, I don't have a referral today.
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And our AI triage can say, hey, we'll get a tech out today to get this taken care of.
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We need XYZ done.
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So yeah, I mean, there's there's a lot of different use cases for when we talk about that personalization at the foundation that opens up tons of opportunities.
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Referrals being, I think, the biggest opportunity because it's it's such high efficiency.
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You need that out there, and there's such a big gap.
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That's what most people don't realize is they think, hey, referrals are working.
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We get a ton of referrals in word of mouth, and that's great, but they're only getting that 29%.
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There's so much more meat left on the bone for referrals specifically that they're not taking advantage of.
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And so it's cool.
00:14:56.960 --> 00:14:58.480
I was just in a shop last week.
00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:03.360
They in their first five months hit their million dollar mark on refer pro, specifically through referpro.
00:15:03.679 --> 00:15:03.919
It's crazy.
00:15:04.159 --> 00:15:04.720
Incremental revenue.
00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:05.919
How big is a business?
00:15:06.159 --> 00:15:07.840
They're they're similar size to you guys.
00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:11.279
They're uh yeah, they're part of the guild group, they're a garage door location, part of the guild group.
00:15:11.679 --> 00:15:12.240
Is that A plus?
00:15:12.480 --> 00:15:13.440
That's A plus, yeah.
00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:15.919
So and they're out of Salt Lake, they're out of Salt Lake, yeah.
00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:16.159
Yeah.
00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:19.759
So I was just I was just stopped in there the other day and I was talking to the team.
00:15:19.840 --> 00:15:22.240
And um, yeah, I mean it's just cool to see that, right?
00:15:22.320 --> 00:15:32.559
Like that, that's a million dollars in revenue that they were like, hey, referrals are great, but now that they're taking advantage of it, they're driving meaningful revenue in in a short amount of time that they didn't think was possible.
00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:35.120
And that's that's not a a weird case study.
00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:40.639
That that's very, very common across every business, obviously, depending on the size, but that's a common a common thing that happens.
00:15:40.720 --> 00:15:43.759
Yeah, what how many customer files do you think this makes sense?
00:15:44.399 --> 00:15:46.799
Yeah, as far as like homeowners in the in your database?
00:15:47.039 --> 00:15:51.840
Yeah, like homeowners, uh I mean, I like a couple questions on it.
00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:54.879
So uh yeah, I'm I guess homeowners is probably the big one.
00:15:55.200 --> 00:15:59.279
Or um I mean, do you have anybody using it as like a B2B?
00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:10.480
I'm imagining so we've got somebody here today, and he's uh he's running a foundation repair business, basically.
00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:16.240
And uh almost all of his work comes from real estate agents.
00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:16.639
Yeah.
00:16:16.960 --> 00:16:27.039
So I like and again, I'm just I'm trying to imagine I think the more you like think about all the different ways you could drive this, it it get it like more hairbrained shit starts coming out.
00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:34.639
But like my I think you could run like meta ads at a landing page to like, hey, you want to make an extra thousand dollars a month?
00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:41.759
And I'm sure meta has rules about that, but uh, and then like drive referrals to this foundation repair if you're a real estate agent.
00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:46.799
And I think um, like are people are people using it like that yet?
00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:47.759
Absolutely, yeah.
00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:49.600
Like almost affiliate, it's like an affiliate program.
00:16:49.759 --> 00:16:51.759
It's like ease is an affiliate program as a contract.
00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:54.879
We have a whole affiliate platform on the refer pro platform.
00:16:55.039 --> 00:17:01.679
So the number one is is this customer database, this gold mine, which is which includes post-service strips after the job is done, as well as database.
00:17:01.840 --> 00:17:03.440
And I didn't, I guess I didn't finish that question.
00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:04.880
What is a good amount of customer base?
00:17:04.960 --> 00:17:09.759
Like a thousand or five thousand or yeah, I think like the folks you brought up so far, like Apex is huge.
00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:11.359
Yeah, the bigger the better, right?
00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:13.440
Uh obviously the bigger the better.
00:17:13.519 --> 00:17:14.799
Referrals are numbers game.
00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:18.559
So we can bring, we can take the 29 to the 83%, we can close the gap.
00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:22.799
Yeah, that gap is much different for a truck and a truck and a and a private equity backgroup.
00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:27.119
So your results are gonna vary depending on the size of your business and the foundation of your customer base.
00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:30.480
With that said, this this lifecycle marketing, the sooner you start it, the better.
00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:33.519
Even if you only have 500 customers, it's better to get that started.
00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:39.680
You might not see incredible results from referrals specifically, but if you don't do it now, you're never gonna see that in the future.
00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:45.119
So uh I would say the the gap is the same, it's it's proportionate to the size of the business.
00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:47.839
So yeah, it can work for everyone at different varying stages.
00:17:47.920 --> 00:17:49.440
But yeah, you've got your customers.
00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:56.880
And I would say start the lifecycle marketing with your customers early, then lean into our second and third buckets, which are technicians, employees, and affiliates.
00:17:56.960 --> 00:17:59.440
If you don't have a lot of customers, you can still have a lot of affiliates.
00:17:59.599 --> 00:18:00.799
So we can track that.
00:18:01.039 --> 00:18:04.720
Like I think the stat is 30% of calls that come in across the board.
00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:06.319
This is all home services.
00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:13.599
Uh, they're unable to service, whether it's because they're calling for a different kind of service that that business doesn't do or it's out of territory or resume, or they're they're moving or something.
00:18:13.680 --> 00:18:19.759
And so we're able to help cycle some of those leads to other businesses that they can't, and then the business that gets the call can still get the credit for that.
00:18:19.839 --> 00:18:21.359
So yeah, there's a lot that can be done there.
00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:25.519
I'd say start early, utilize the tools that you can utilize as you grow your customer base.
00:18:25.759 --> 00:18:27.920
But I mean the bigger the better, obviously.
00:18:28.160 --> 00:18:28.480
Yeah.
00:18:28.799 --> 00:18:32.720
So the uh I'm back on the affiliate thing because I just want to like I want to spend some time on that.
00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:44.400
So, like the the the first way that you guys are probably like pitching the referral is like your own customer base, but the opportunity of external to your own customer base seems just as big.
00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:52.079
Yeah, you just have to figure out a way to get contact information, which I don't know how easy or hard that is, I guess.
00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:54.880
But um, so can you yeah, walk me through the affiliate thing?
00:18:55.119 --> 00:18:57.359
Yeah, I think there I put the affiliate side in two parts.
00:18:57.440 --> 00:18:59.519
One is already known and established relationships.
00:18:59.680 --> 00:19:01.920
Okay, you may have other like you might get a bunch of real estate.
00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:04.000
This guy's referred me stuff before, yeah.
00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:07.119
And and it becomes much easier to manage that relationship when you're tracking.
00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:10.640
So one, it's the same thing that motivates your customer, is motivating this affiliate.
00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:18.720
So if you have a realtor who is sending you business, if you give them a link, a tool, they can use that, they can save it on their Apple wallet, they can save it in a batch, whatever.
00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:22.720
However, there's many different tools they can use, NFC technology, it's front of mind for them.
00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:23.920
They have it as an app on their phone.
00:19:24.079 --> 00:19:25.599
Anytime they talk to somebody, it's front of mind.
00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:27.119
They're gonna refer more people to you.
00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:32.880
Two, if you take care of them and automatically pay them out after, they're much more likely to think you're good and stay an affiliate, right?
00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:38.480
Which this has been a like a real um like acute pain point for us.
00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:49.680
We have a uh we're launching this sewer sales department where we're selling linings, and we've talked about it a little bit on the show, and we had Isaac Zimmerman on in October, if like the listener wants to check that out.
00:19:50.160 --> 00:20:00.480
But we've been working through that, and home inspection companies are the big drivers of those leads, and we've been manually tracking it, which is kind of a pain.
00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:03.039
And we lost like 50 leads.
00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:11.599
Uh, and so and I see the guy because I I drew and he's a really cool guy, and thankfully he was really patient with us, and like we gave gave him some grace and we ended up paying him.
00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:15.200
But um, but I see him like twice a week because our kids go to the same preschool.
00:20:15.279 --> 00:20:18.000
Yeah, so he was like, hey man, I'm like, damn it.
00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:20.000
I thought we totally delivered on this.
00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:26.960
And uh so I was really discouraged by it, but it's administratively burdensome to like track those referral engines.
00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:33.519
Most home service companies don't stall because of demand, they stall because they run out of good people.
00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:37.920
Finding solid help fast is hard, especially in this industry.
00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:40.000
And that's where Quick Staffers comes in.
00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:46.079
They help home service companies build reliable virtual teams that actually understand how the trades work.
00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:54.880
Quick Staffers provides vetted, remote staffed who are already trained on Service Titan and use proven SOPs, the same as the ones that I use at Wilson.
00:20:54.960 --> 00:21:02.559
These are VAs you can plug in from day one to handle customer service, lead follow-up, scheduling support, and a ton more.
00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:06.480
They've been a huge help in scaling my team without the usual hiring headaches.
00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:08.559
Check them out at the link below.
00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:10.160
Yeah, 100%.
00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:13.039
I mean, this is the case across affiliates, customers.
00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:18.079
I have seen this as a business owner, as an operator at ReferPro with our partners and myself as a consumer.
00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:29.279
When someone tells you, hey, when you send a referral to a business and then they drop the lead, they don't handle it correctly, you then go from a place where you can build trust in that business and refer again and build momentum to a place where I'm not going to refer to that company again.
00:21:29.359 --> 00:21:29.599
Yeah, yeah.
00:21:29.839 --> 00:21:37.599
The second piece of that is if they promise you a payout, this has happened to me many times, they don't pay that out after you send the referral and you don't get paid out, now you're much less likely again.
00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:41.440
So there's two steps in that process where you can either build trust or you lose trust.
00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:44.400
And most businesses that do that manually, it's not intentional.
00:21:44.559 --> 00:21:50.240
They just it the business is busy, there's a lot happening, and so it's very difficult to it's easy to lose.
00:21:50.559 --> 00:21:51.039
Easy to lose.
00:21:51.119 --> 00:21:52.000
You have to have automation.
00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:53.200
If it's manual, it just doesn't work.
00:21:53.599 --> 00:21:54.160
It's easy to lose.
00:21:54.400 --> 00:21:58.880
Like one is just just making sure your affiliates feel taken care of, they have a clear system, they're getting paid out.
00:21:59.039 --> 00:21:59.759
The other is and tell me.
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:05.599
What you think about this idea, but we're we're proactively building this marketplace where you can find these affiliates.
00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:07.759
So one side is you already have the affiliate relationship.
00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:08.000
Yeah.
00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:11.920
We're providing technology and AI to help facilitate that and automate it from start to finish.
00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:13.119
So you don't have to worry about it.
00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:13.759
That's great.
00:22:13.920 --> 00:22:15.839
That's that's happening today all over the board.
00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:23.680
The second is moving more and more into the ability to find these affiliate partners for you with AI and say, hey, here's a business that has these kind of leads available.
00:22:23.759 --> 00:22:24.559
They're in your area.
00:22:24.640 --> 00:22:26.160
Here's how much they're willing to sell these for.
00:22:26.319 --> 00:22:28.319
You can pay, do Rev share, whatever that looks like.
00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:32.240
So there's a huge opportunity to one make a bigger piece of the pie.
00:22:32.559 --> 00:22:34.559
I think that's probably the bigger opportunity here.
00:22:35.119 --> 00:22:39.279
Uh because I think, and I I think I said this last time we talked too.
00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:49.599
I think one of my concerns, not even a concern, it's just like as we think about life cycle marketing, we're very effective at it, and it drives a lot for us.
00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:51.839
So we're really cautious now.
00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:57.599
It's not like we're going from zero to one, we're going from like five to whatever.
00:22:57.680 --> 00:23:02.559
Like, I don't think we're best in class at it, but we're like we're fairly far along in the process.
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:10.799
And uh, so like, okay, what's one more thing, and how do we not make that disruptive and like are we bothering our customers too much?
00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:17.759
I think the bigger I mean, yeah, I do think like life cycle marketing is important, and if you're not doing something, you definitely need to be doing something.
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:32.640
But the like the ex to me, as I think about this technology, so much of it is like, dude, I I mean you could run meta ads and fill up like a hundred realtors in like a wine and learn night about some random bullshit.
00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:34.079
I have no idea, just give them wine.
00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:39.920
Realtors love to be fed, and then like, hey, here's your affiliate thing, we can't wait to make you more money.
00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:43.920
So that feels like huge to me.
00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:45.519
Yeah, it is huge.
00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:58.880
I think this person, the the lifecycle marketing you talk about bothering your customers, I think this is why what's changed in the past six months, yeah, with for ProPro specifically, and with uh AI in general, is the ability to personalize that.
00:23:58.960 --> 00:24:13.920
So the difference between bugging your customer and them saying, Don't talk to me again versus saying, hey, one, I need job, I need a job completed and I have a referral for you, is understanding their personalization, referring to them as a real person, knowing their background, these the AI makes it possible to personalize that.
00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:22.400
So there's a huge difference, and this is where refer pro is powerful is this database of not only those customer profiles, but also how we how they interact, tens of millions of homeowners.
00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:26.000
What time of day is the best converting for certain types of lead campaigns?
00:24:26.079 --> 00:24:30.000
Uh, what kind of messaging, what kind of trigger words have a higher booking rate?
00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:37.759
We can A B test that across tens of millions of homeowners and messages, emails, texts, what time of day, what the cadence looks like, and personalize that to that human.
00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:41.920
So they understand, hey, this business isn't spamming me, they're they're touching base.
00:24:42.160 --> 00:24:42.960
And it's organized.
00:24:43.039 --> 00:24:49.039
So if you're asking for a review right after the job, we don't want to hit them right after for referral and right after for a membership request.
00:24:49.200 --> 00:24:50.160
We want to space those out.
00:24:50.240 --> 00:24:56.559
And so we know, hey, the ones who submitted a five-star review, they're 20x more likely to send five plus referrals over the next year.
00:24:56.720 --> 00:24:58.960
So let's change their cadence based on that behavior.
00:24:59.039 --> 00:25:03.200
So every single trigger that we can track updates the behavior for future outreach.
00:25:03.359 --> 00:25:08.480
So that can take this lifecycle marketing from a good baseline of staying front of mind and creating awareness.
00:25:08.559 --> 00:25:09.039
That's positive.
00:25:09.119 --> 00:25:09.920
Everyone should be doing that.
00:25:10.079 --> 00:25:14.480
So this engine that essentially learns from itself over time and becomes smarter and smarter.
00:25:14.559 --> 00:25:15.599
That's that's the unlock here.
00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:23.279
That's how you go from getting decent results and having it be a good baseline to something that most people can't even believe is possible because of that personalization effect.
00:25:23.359 --> 00:25:23.440
Yeah.
00:25:23.599 --> 00:25:23.920
It's huge.
00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:25.119
Yeah, that is interesting.
00:25:25.279 --> 00:25:27.119
How do you track the Google review part?
00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:28.559
Yeah, so there's different triggers.
00:25:28.640 --> 00:25:31.279
It does depend a little bit on what CRM, FSM they're using, right?
00:25:31.359 --> 00:25:32.640
We have a lot of partners in that space.
00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:37.519
So whether it's service time or job name is or Aculinx, depending on what the business is using, what vertical they're in.
00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:39.119
There's different triggers available to us.
00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:41.200
So a lot of that data we can track in Refer Pro.
00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:41.680
Okay.
00:25:41.839 --> 00:25:43.119
A lot of that's in the CRM.
00:25:43.279 --> 00:25:45.119
So we can tap into different resources.
00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:49.920
If we can track when those Google reviews are coming in, we can we can reference that as a data point for that customer.
00:25:50.319 --> 00:25:52.480
Collect their name or email or yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:58.240
We track all those different yeah, name, email, number, can be other other data points, but those are the easiest ones to track.
00:25:58.319 --> 00:25:58.880
Yeah, yeah.
00:25:59.039 --> 00:25:59.680
Yeah, okay.
00:25:59.839 --> 00:26:00.480
That's interesting.
00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:01.519
That's interesting.
00:26:01.759 --> 00:26:02.079
All right.
00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:06.880
So we're and and the the technician thing, Apex is the big one using it.
00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:08.319
Who else is like using this successfully?
00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:11.039
I mean, I'd say we're we're across most of the big platforms now.
00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:11.359
Okay.
00:26:11.519 --> 00:26:17.839
Um yeah, Apex, uh, you've got the guild group, champions, yeah, Stone Grove, uh, Vertex.
00:26:17.920 --> 00:26:19.200
I mean, they're they're across the board.
00:26:19.279 --> 00:26:19.839
So yeah.
00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:25.119
Um what's the like walk me through like best in class referral for techs?
00:26:25.200 --> 00:26:26.319
I'm I'm fascinated.
00:26:26.559 --> 00:26:29.759
Yeah, for uh for technicians, you're saying, or for text messages.
00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:30.400
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:33.039
Technicians, yeah, there's it depends on the volume there.
00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:34.640
But one, we want to get them involved in the process.
00:26:34.720 --> 00:26:36.960
So they're in the number of techs I have.
00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:40.640
Number of technicians, yeah, back to the same point is like we can close that gap, it's just dependent.
00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:43.200
If you have two, it still works and it's and it'd do X amount for your revenue.
00:26:43.359 --> 00:26:44.240
Well, I mean for recruitment.
00:26:44.480 --> 00:26:45.839
Oh, for recruiting, yeah, exactly.
00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:50.880
I mean, if you look at your technicians, the most likely place to hire more technicians is in their sphere of influence.
00:26:50.960 --> 00:26:55.279
So if you've got a technician who's out at the bar or a church or with their neighbor at the barbecue.
00:26:55.920 --> 00:26:56.400
They worked with them.
00:26:56.480 --> 00:27:03.119
Like we just hired a rock star, I think, uh, this morning, and he was working with one of our other rock stars at a rotor root or down the road.
00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:03.359
Yeah.
00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:06.319
And like, we would have never just gotten that candidate.
00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:06.559
Yeah.
00:27:06.799 --> 00:27:08.559
Our ref the referral engine's really real.
00:27:08.799 --> 00:27:09.680
Yeah, it's totally real.
00:27:09.759 --> 00:27:10.880
And I think it happens naturally.
00:27:10.960 --> 00:27:14.319
Again, back to this same point of like 29% will do it naturally.
00:27:14.559 --> 00:27:14.880
Yes.
00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:18.559
Most of those technicians, if there's not an incentive, they're not thinking about it when they're barbecue.
00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:20.799
If they're saying this came, this came up yesterday.
00:27:20.960 --> 00:27:22.720
So we're we're talking about recruitment.
00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:22.960
Yeah.
00:27:23.119 --> 00:27:28.720
And it's like, hey guys, was your average technician drive in revenue a month?
00:27:28.960 --> 00:27:35.440
And like, you know, it's I got like 35 and 40 and 50, and then one dude was like$85,000 a month.
00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:36.720
And I'm like, like, fuck yeah.
00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:39.440
All right, like dude's like rolling in it.
00:27:39.680 --> 00:27:41.759
Uh, so like that's a lot of money.
00:27:41.839 --> 00:27:44.480
Yeah, that's a half a million a year to a million a year.
00:27:44.559 --> 00:27:44.880
Yeah.
00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:47.920
And so immediate next question is incredible.
00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:51.359
Like, that dude's driving a half a million to a million a year.
00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:56.559
What are you paying to like drive new technicians to come into your business?
00:27:56.640 --> 00:27:58.880
Yeah, like how are you thinking about recruitment?
00:27:59.119 --> 00:28:07.759
And and one dude was like, first off, 40 people in the room, four people were paying a referral fee to bring in new technicians.
00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:08.640
Yeah, what was that?
00:28:08.720 --> 00:28:10.000
What was that average they were offering in that?
00:28:10.400 --> 00:28:12.000
Like one was a hundred dollars.
00:28:12.079 --> 00:28:12.240
Yeah.
00:28:12.319 --> 00:28:14.400
And I'm like, a hundred dollars for a million.
00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:14.640
Yeah.
00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:16.000
Has anyone ever referred anyone?
00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:16.640
That's too low.
00:28:16.799 --> 00:28:19.279
No, we've you know, it's like, yeah, no fucking shit.
00:28:19.519 --> 00:28:22.799
And uh, yeah, I think the other ones like it was$200.
00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:23.519
Yeah.
00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:26.559
Um, so then we made fun of everyone for the rest of the day.
00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:31.119
But it it is like it's such a it's such an easy block and tackle.
00:28:31.279 --> 00:28:38.799
Like, dude, if you went to Vegas and you had an 80% chance to drive half a million dollars, what would you put into that machine?
00:28:39.119 --> 00:28:42.559
And it's like a couple grand should be like the no-brainer answer here.
00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:46.160
Yeah, like you might lose, but you probably will win.
00:28:46.319 --> 00:28:46.559
Yeah.
00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:47.119
But yeah.
00:28:47.359 --> 00:28:49.440
Yeah, I mean, it's obviously all about the team.
00:28:49.599 --> 00:28:57.200
And if that's the value of a new technician, I would say go up to and same as a job, go up to a thousand, go up to$2,500.
00:28:57.519 --> 00:29:02.640
And then you look at, hey, the technician, they have a link to track it, they have the tools, they have badges, NFC technology.
00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:06.079
It can be in their in their phone wallet on their app in their phone wallet, right?
00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:06.640
Ready to go.
00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:11.119
Then they're at the barbecue in the back of their mind, they're thinking, I make a thousand dollars for everybody I bring.
00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:13.839
They're jumping at every opportunity to tell someone.
00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:16.400
And so they're they're trying to proactively recruit people now.
00:29:16.480 --> 00:29:21.359
So you might go from a couple recruits every month at a big shop to 10x that, right?
00:29:21.440 --> 00:29:25.920
You're getting laughing because I'm pretty sure we're making a pyramid scheme right now, and I'm I am all about it.
00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:27.039
I'm all about it.
00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:31.119
Yeah, I mean, and we have a referral instead of internally or pro, we have it with all of our customers.
00:29:31.359 --> 00:29:33.920
I think it's one, you're you're making them a hero too.
00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:35.519
So I think with your customers, you're giving back.
00:29:35.599 --> 00:29:36.480
You're saying pay it forward.
00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:38.880
So you're paying the customer, but you're also saying 10% off.
00:29:39.039 --> 00:29:40.799
You can do the same thing with technicians, right?
00:29:40.880 --> 00:29:51.359
You want to give, they want to come, they want to be the hero to their friend at the barbecue and say, hey, sure, I make money by recruiting you, but I want you to come because it's a great place to work and here's benefit X, Y, and Z, Y you should come here.
00:29:51.519 --> 00:29:56.079
But they're not thinking about promoting it unless there's something an easy way to track it.
00:29:56.319 --> 00:30:05.519
If they don't know they're gonna get credit for it in the system, if they're a cog and a wheel, there's 500 techs in the in the field and they recruit somebody and they never get any credit or a shout-out, like that goes a long way.
00:30:05.599 --> 00:30:09.200
So just the recognition piece alone goes a long way to recruit people.
00:30:09.359 --> 00:30:13.359
The incentive is also great, but it's even just recognizing them is half the battle.
00:30:13.519 --> 00:30:15.680
So yeah, it's I mean, it's a big opportunity there.
00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:17.680
Uh but this this reminds me a lot.
00:30:17.839 --> 00:30:20.880
You know, we started off with like, hey, are you keeping it top of mind?
00:30:21.119 --> 00:30:30.880
So one of the challenges we've had and is like, yeah, we have this great program, but like we also have medical and dental and life and all these other benefits.
00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:34.240
So like it does get lost in the shuffle if it's not top of mind.
00:30:34.480 --> 00:30:37.039
Same with like the restoration leads or all that stuff.
00:30:37.119 --> 00:30:40.559
So yeah, I think the ability to drive that in is uh helpful.
00:30:40.720 --> 00:30:41.759
Yeah, really helpful.
00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:42.880
Yeah, 100%.
00:30:43.359 --> 00:30:45.440
Um, I think you guys do all that the right way.
00:30:45.519 --> 00:30:46.640
I think success is very good.
00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:47.599
We're not doing this, right?
00:30:47.680 --> 00:30:48.799
Yeah, we're not doing this very well.
00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:49.680
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:52.559
Yeah, every every time we talk, I'm like, dude, what am I doing?
00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:56.640
And now it's that's what's cool about uh I think the home service space in general.
00:30:56.799 --> 00:30:59.200
Uh you look at the trades and success leaves clues.
00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:01.599
I think the trades are very generous to share good ideas.
00:31:01.759 --> 00:31:03.279
Yeah, they don't they don't keep that.
00:31:03.359 --> 00:31:05.759
Uh I think in tech it's the it's not the case, right?
00:31:05.839 --> 00:31:07.279
It's like, hey, this works for us.
00:31:07.359 --> 00:31:08.160
We don't want to tell everybody.
00:31:08.240 --> 00:31:10.319
I think in the trades, everyone's like, hey, this works for us.
00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:22.160
So I think that's what's been cool is to see all these businesses share these best practices that they're doing with ReferPro and then see that make a difference at another shop, whether that's customers, technicians, affiliates, you know, whatever it may be, the referral amounts.
00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:40.720
And we're also able to capture that data and share best practices across the board of hey, this timing and this messaging and cadence and this amount of incentive makes a huge, I mean, we have conversion rates from you look at this incentive amount in that in that group you're talking about for technician recruiting,$100,$200, like it's not a heat, that's not a lot compared to what that technician's bringing up.
00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:42.000
It's like forgot lay balls.
00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:50.559
You look at that from we have the data on a customer perspective, the conversion rate when you offer up to, you know, say up to$100, because you're paying different on a replacement versus repair.
00:31:50.640 --> 00:31:53.039
So you say up to$250 on a when we have rule base.
00:31:53.279 --> 00:31:53.359
Yeah.
00:31:53.519 --> 00:31:55.119
If it's an install, it's$250.
00:31:55.279 --> 00:31:57.839
Some people are going as high as$2,000 on the roofing side, right?
00:31:58.079 --> 00:32:04.559
So go up to up to$100, then you go up to$250, there's a massive conversion rate difference between just that$150 alone.
00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:06.000
So from what to what?
00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:08.000
From$100 to$250, that's a huge gap.
00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:10.400
$250 to$500 is another significant gap.
00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:11.119
So interesting.
00:32:11.279 --> 00:32:12.240
That's what businesses don't understand.
00:32:12.319 --> 00:32:14.960
They're saying quantity or like in conversion rate.
00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:15.759
In conversion rate.
00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:18.720
So if you were to say, hey, this month we generated 100 referrals.
00:32:18.799 --> 00:32:18.960
Yeah.
00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:25.440
If your if your incentive was 100 versus 250, yeah, that would almost double from that range.
00:32:25.599 --> 00:32:28.000
So 250 to 500 is another referrals.
00:32:28.240 --> 00:32:28.640
Yeah, exactly.
00:32:29.039 --> 00:32:29.519
Or quantity.
00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:31.920
That many more people are willing to submit referrals.
00:32:32.079 --> 00:32:36.720
Um, yeah, I mean, you look at that uh from and then you just look at this from an ROI perspective.
00:32:36.799 --> 00:32:39.440
That's our big our dashboard draw ROI focus, right?
00:32:39.519 --> 00:32:43.759
So if you're paying whatever your ROI is on your meta and Google Ads, that's great.
00:32:43.839 --> 00:32:44.559
We don't want to replace that.
00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:47.440
We're building a funnel on top of that to say let's get repeat business.
00:32:47.519 --> 00:32:47.759
Yes.
00:32:47.920 --> 00:32:53.920
But if that's you know five to 10x, whatever it may be, um 37.1 was the last one I looked at, right?
00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:56.880
Like referrals are just that much more efficient because it's built on trust.
00:32:56.960 --> 00:32:58.559
Like they converted a higher ratio.
00:32:58.720 --> 00:33:04.240
So if you can fill the top of funnel with referrals by saying$100, yeah, let's start$100.
00:33:04.480 --> 00:33:09.599
But if you know the conversion rate from$100 to$500 is X, it's easy math to say, let's do the$500.
00:33:09.680 --> 00:33:13.119
It's still going to be way better payout than any other marketing channel we could do.
00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:18.640
And instead of paying that to a lead aggregator, we're paying that to our customer, which builds loyalty and lifetime value.
00:33:18.720 --> 00:33:22.799
They're much more likely to come back to us now, too, because we just paid for their kids' Christmas, right?
00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:34.240
We get those letters all the time of like, hey, I made X amount this month, you paid for my kids' Christmas or trip to Disneyland because I referred 10 people successfully, which wouldn't have happened otherwise had that not been a carrot to Dinkle, right?
00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:36.079
So it's it's it that data is really interesting.
00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:37.680
That is really interesting, yeah.
00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:41.680
What's the most unique use case you've seen from a contractor?
00:33:41.839 --> 00:33:43.440
Like, give me some weird ones.
00:33:43.839 --> 00:33:45.599
Oh man, that's uh that's a good one.
00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:46.240
There's a lot.
00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:50.480
Um I think that they're I don't there's not really weird ones, right?
00:33:50.559 --> 00:33:54.480
Like they're all revenue generating activities, so it's hard to like make fun of it.
00:33:54.559 --> 00:33:55.039
I think people do.
00:33:55.440 --> 00:33:56.240
Well, let's make fun of it.
00:33:56.319 --> 00:33:58.480
I'm like, I'm like, I'm trying to stretch my brain here.
00:33:58.720 --> 00:33:59.759
Yeah, I mean, I'm trying to think.
00:33:59.839 --> 00:34:00.960
I wish I had the whole team here.
00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:07.680
All of our all of our uh account managers have have a lot of those good stories of of cool things people are doing to to leverage the platform.
00:34:07.759 --> 00:34:11.039
And really what happens is we turn those into products in the future, right?
00:34:11.119 --> 00:34:14.239
It starts with one person using it for something weird, like some weird use case.
00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:29.519
Well, I'm sure that's how affiliate and like recruitment started was you guys started with like lifecycle marketing to your own customers, then it's like, well, hey, this technology, like you can anything that is worth paying out against and you need to track, this makes sense.
00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:30.400
Yeah, 100%.
00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:38.239
I think what we've tried to do is bridge the tech world with home services and say our most valuable feedback is from our customers and our partners.
00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:44.880
So over the past three years, it's been, yeah, that might that might seem like an interesting use case, not something we have ever thought about before.
00:34:45.039 --> 00:34:48.480
And then a year later, it's like being used by thousands of other businesses.
00:34:48.639 --> 00:34:50.000
So it's yeah, it's funny how that works.
00:34:50.079 --> 00:34:54.800
And we we want to bridge those two worlds because I think it's so powerful to, I don't know, let let the builders build, right?
00:34:54.880 --> 00:35:00.719
Like let these business owners who are busy doing all sorts of things, like I've got 10 things that I know need to be fixed in my business.
00:35:01.119 --> 00:35:05.039
I just don't have the time and the ability to go automate those, let alone build a system to do it.
00:35:05.199 --> 00:35:10.639
So we take that feedback, and that's where all those different those different products and features that we've been rolling out come from.
00:35:10.719 --> 00:35:11.360
So awesome.
00:35:11.519 --> 00:35:14.880
Yeah, it starts as a one-off and turns into a system, yeah, big thing.
00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:15.280
Yeah, yeah.
00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:16.079
That's awesome, man.
00:35:16.159 --> 00:35:16.559
That's awesome.
00:35:16.719 --> 00:35:18.159
So, what's next for refer pro?
00:35:18.559 --> 00:35:19.280
Yeah, there's a lot.
00:35:19.360 --> 00:35:20.719
I mean, we've talked about some of it.
00:35:20.800 --> 00:35:24.639
Uh, I think the key here is this foundation piece of personalization.
00:35:24.719 --> 00:35:25.119
Yeah.
00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:28.559
You need to understand not just what's their customer, what's their name and number.
00:35:28.639 --> 00:35:28.960
That's great.
00:35:29.039 --> 00:35:34.320
That's gonna bring a lot of results, but yeah, you need to have the AI and the ability, and there's there's different ways to accomplish this.
00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:42.480
Refer pro is one of those ways, but you need to have the ability to personalize that data and compare it to other industry standards.
00:35:42.639 --> 00:35:46.480
So you've got your customer data, you've got what works in HVAC, you've got what works in roofing and plumbing.
00:35:46.559 --> 00:35:47.679
Yeah, those can be very different.
00:35:47.920 --> 00:35:58.719
And so, this data and this personalization layer that is possible with AI creates this feedback loop, which is where we're sprinting now and running with all these different ways to ultimately generate revenue.
00:35:58.800 --> 00:35:59.360
That's our goal.
00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:09.119
So generate revenue, and then by that, you know, you're you're bringing tech, you're incentivizing tech, you're recruiting tech, you're bringing in affiliates, you're taking care of your customers, you're getting win-back leads, you're getting referrals.
00:36:09.199 --> 00:36:10.639
Yeah, all those things are so valuable.
00:36:10.719 --> 00:36:20.880
So I'd say the end goal is always new revenue, making the back office and the team more efficient in doing that, which brings your cost down, which ultimately helps you compete in today's world.
00:36:21.039 --> 00:36:24.559
I think you're seeing a big gap of businesses who do that and who don't, it's gonna get bigger and bigger.
00:36:24.800 --> 00:36:31.360
So if you're I think lifecycle marketing, like you know, I'm talking to a lot of people whose marketing spend is like 10 to 13 percent.
00:36:31.519 --> 00:36:35.760
And like that's one thing if you're growing like 50% a year, but they're growing like five.
00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:40.159
Yeah, and lifecycle, like we spent five percent last month in April.
00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:42.559
And I think I'm convinced that's a total robas.
00:36:42.880 --> 00:36:45.039
That's total like marketing spend.
00:36:45.119 --> 00:36:51.199
Yeah, that's including like salaries for my marketing team, that's including spend, that's including field marketing salaries.
00:36:51.280 --> 00:36:52.480
Like there's a lot in there.
00:36:52.639 --> 00:36:53.440
Yeah, five percent's tight.
00:36:53.519 --> 00:36:54.719
We were on tight ship.
00:36:55.039 --> 00:36:58.960
And uh, but like we're still we're still moving.
00:36:59.199 --> 00:37:09.119
Uh, and I think like that lifecycle to me is the difference between an effective five, seven percent and still growing and 11 and 13.
00:37:09.360 --> 00:37:11.519
Like, I think it's that powerful for us.
00:37:11.679 --> 00:37:18.880
I mean, almost every day our board is filled, like 20, 30 percent of our board is filled with like our own energy and life cycle.
00:37:19.119 --> 00:37:19.920
Yeah, it's powerful.
00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:25.920
And then if you compare that to any competitors you're working against, if they're paying 7% more in marketing, yeah.
00:37:26.239 --> 00:37:28.000
I mean, that's yeah, that's gonna catch up, right?
00:37:28.239 --> 00:37:29.360
That does that's not sustainable.
00:37:29.440 --> 00:37:37.599
So if you're able to make the back office more efficient with tools, AI tools, uh, you're you're that much more capable to compete against the next lead and to grow your business.
00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:40.079
So you can be efficient and operate like that and still grow.
00:37:40.239 --> 00:37:43.119
Or if you need to go into growth mode, you can do it and get a lot more out of it.
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:56.159
So I think the baseline for all of that though, with ReferPro is this this personalization layer, this lifecycle marketing, staying front of mind, automating the process so your customers all have a good experience, they feel heard and taken care of and personalized.
00:37:56.239 --> 00:37:59.679
Um, and then closing the loop so your team doesn't have to take care of that.
00:37:59.760 --> 00:37:59.920
Yeah.
00:38:00.079 --> 00:38:12.800
The last thing you want your team doing in a referral program is at the end of the month, you've got 700 referrals, 45 of those were new installed jobs, you owe them X amount of money, and your finance team is accountable for cutting a check to each one of those.
00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:13.840
It's not gonna happen.
00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:23.280
And then those, you know, those 50 people who you had a successful referral from that just drove 500k in new install revenue are now much more likely to not refer you in the future because you made them mad, right?
00:38:23.440 --> 00:38:26.559
So what you want to do is get them paid out the next day automatically.
00:38:26.719 --> 00:38:30.400
Your team doesn't even have to worry about it, and then they're looking for the next proactive opportunity.
00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:38.159
So I think it all comes down to this power of technology and AI, though, the ability to personalize that with the data layer and then to close the loop for the team.
00:38:38.239 --> 00:38:48.239
So the team can focus on face-to-face interactions, the back office systems are running themselves, making the team more efficient, letting you operate at a 5% instead of a 15% marketing budget.
00:38:48.400 --> 00:38:49.840
I think that's that's the big picture.
00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:52.320
And there's a lot that goes into that that we're working on, but we're excited.
00:38:52.800 --> 00:38:53.760
That's awesome, dude.
00:38:53.840 --> 00:38:54.320
That's awesome.
00:38:54.480 --> 00:38:59.519
Any uh any quick tips as we close out here on like how to drive referral tech into your business?
00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:05.679
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00:39:05.840 --> 00:39:09.840
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00:39:09.920 --> 00:39:11.519
And that's where iWallet comes in.
00:39:11.679 --> 00:39:16.159
iWallet is a modern financial operating system built specifically for the trades.
00:39:16.239 --> 00:39:23.679
It combines cards, ACH, and even digital check processing into one simple platform and it plugs right into your existing CRM.
00:39:23.760 --> 00:39:29.039
In my own business, we are currently slashing our credit card processing fees in half using iWallet.
00:39:29.119 --> 00:39:33.360
If you're serious about scaling your business and cleaning up your cash flow, check out iWallet.
00:39:33.440 --> 00:39:37.280
Head to iWallet.com slash demo to learn more.
00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:39.519
Yeah, I think don't don't give up.
00:39:39.599 --> 00:39:43.760
I think a lot of people um I mean that's been top of mind for us.
00:39:43.920 --> 00:39:46.960
Yeah, I think I think a lot of people see quick wins month one.
00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:47.679
It's that's easy.
00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:48.639
That's that's the norm.
00:39:48.719 --> 00:39:52.719
But some people get in and they might be a smaller shop, they've got a hundred thousand customers.
00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:55.760
It's like, hey, let's go turn on referrals and let it what happened in the first month.
00:39:55.840 --> 00:39:57.039
It's like it's not meta ads.
00:39:57.119 --> 00:39:59.199
You've got to build life cycle marketing takes some time.
00:39:59.280 --> 00:40:02.000
Yeah, it builds momentum over time, it gets stronger and stronger.
00:40:02.079 --> 00:40:09.440
So I'd say whether it's um with refer pro specifically, whether it's with your lifecycle marketing, whether it's with your brand awareness, yeah.
00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:11.360
Like that, build a foundation.
00:40:11.440 --> 00:40:12.960
Don't don't pull the plug on that.
00:40:13.119 --> 00:40:15.679
Re-optimize, try new things, let it play out.
00:40:15.760 --> 00:40:21.519
The data builds and compounds upon itself, and your value and your ability to build your brand in front of your customers only get stronger.
00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:22.719
So let it sit, right?
00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:27.840
I think someone in there in the in the breaking five, yeah, like, hey, give me a give me a three-month pilot.
00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:38.480
Um, it's like, hey, we can, that's no problem for us, but here's here's the here's what you're missing out on is the ability to say, psychologically, we're gonna go, we're gonna go commit to a referral program.
00:40:38.559 --> 00:40:42.960
The last thing you want to do is send out personalized links to every one of your customers, every one of your technicians.
00:40:43.119 --> 00:40:45.360
Two months later, you're like, hey, never mind, customers.
00:40:45.440 --> 00:40:46.800
They go to their link and the link is dead.
00:40:46.880 --> 00:40:52.800
And they're like, well, yeah, that's that's what you've been doing for 10 years is this manual referral program where they don't know where to go, they don't know what the system is.
00:40:52.880 --> 00:40:55.599
Yeah, so it takes this layer of trust built in.
00:40:55.760 --> 00:40:57.599
So I'd say stick, stick with some of these things.
00:40:57.679 --> 00:41:01.199
I think some contractors are quick to give up on different kinds of marketing channels.
00:41:01.280 --> 00:41:04.960
And so I'd say stick with lifecycle marketing specifically.
00:41:05.199 --> 00:41:10.000
Uh let the personalization build, build your brand, build your awareness, let that sit.
00:41:10.159 --> 00:41:15.119
The leads and the revenue will absolutely come and they'll build momentum over time as your business grows.
00:41:15.360 --> 00:41:15.519
Yeah.
00:41:15.679 --> 00:41:16.400
Oh yeah, man.
00:41:16.480 --> 00:41:17.599
Well, thanks for coming on today.
00:41:17.679 --> 00:41:18.079
This is great.
00:41:18.239 --> 00:41:19.360
Yeah, thanks for having me, John.
00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:20.000
It was good to be back.
00:41:20.159 --> 00:41:20.559
Thanks, Murphy.