How Our Family Learned Courage, Connection & LGBTQ Allyship Together

Heather Hester
00:01:25
Welcome to Just Breathe Parenting youg LGBTQ Team, the podcast transforming the conversation around loving and raising an LGBTQ child.

Heather Hester
00:01:38
My name is Heather Hester, and I am so grateful you are here.

Heather Hester
00:01:42
I want you to take a deep breath and know that for the time we are together, you are in the safety of the Just Breathe nest.

Heather Hester
00:01:52
Whether today's show is an amazing guest or me sharing stories, resources, strategies, or lessons I've learned along our journey, I want you to feel like we're just hanging out at a coffee shop having a cozy chat.

Heather Hester
00:02:09
Most of all, I want you to remember that, that wherever you are on this journey right now, in this moment in time, you are not alone.

Host
00:02:27
Welcome back to Just Breathe.

Host
00:02:29
I am so happy you all are here.

Host
00:02:32
Today's episode is an episode that you all have been waiting for, and it's been a quite some time.

Host
00:02:41
I don't think the two of you have ever been on the show together, have you?

Host
00:02:48
Oh, yeah, the anniversary episode.

Connor
00:02:50
Yeah, Right, right.

Host
00:02:51
Oh, my gosh, I forgot about that.

Host
00:02:53
Yes.

Connor
00:02:54
Characters.

Host
00:02:57
Today we all get the pleasure and the fun of having Connor and Gray on the show, asking me questions, me asking them questions, and just talking about all things.

Host
00:03:13
The book, our journey, where they are today, their view of their future now as opposed to 10 years ago, all these good things.

Host
00:03:24
So without further rambling from me, let's get into it.

Host
00:03:31
So thank you.

Host
00:03:32
Thank you, you guys, for making time to be with me today.

Connor
00:03:36
It is a pleasure and a privilege.

Connor
00:03:40
I mean, I guess started off with the kind of on the nose one, but it's like, now that we're finally.

Connor
00:03:47
Yeah, finally after many years, at the point of the book almost being released, or maybe it'll be released by the time this is out.

Connor
00:03:54
But what's the most, like, poignant.

Connor
00:03:59
What's your take at this point of the whole experience of the book journey and how do you feel now and perhaps biggest takeaway you had from this experience.

Connor
00:04:09
I know that's like, three questions, but the general vibe of where you're at right now with the book.

Host
00:04:16
Oh, my gosh.

Host
00:04:18
With the book specifically in, like, in this exact moment in time, I am panicked.

Host
00:04:26
That's, like, my total, 100% honest answer.

Host
00:04:31
I'm excited and I literally, a hundred times a day, I have to remind myself to enjoy this because it's been so much work and so much.

Host
00:04:43
Just everything.

Host
00:04:45
And so now that I'm in the final weeks, before it launches into the world, just wanting to make sure that I cross all the T's and dot all the.

Host
00:04:57
I's and do the things to make the launch successful.

Host
00:05:01
And then beyond that, I'm kind of bigger picture to that.

Host
00:05:08
I'm really grateful.

Host
00:05:10
I am grateful that we're, you know, the six of us are together and you know, who we are and have this incredible bond that allowed me to write this book because it's, you know, like this podcast, it's pretty vulnerable at times.

Host
00:05:32
And it was, I think, you know, in writing the actual writing of the book and kind of going back through some of our stories was a little bit like reliving some of those things, which is kind of weird because reliving, but yet from a little bit of a different perspective or greater wisdom or something like that.

Host
00:05:57
I think I just gave you a totally circular answer to that question.

Connor
00:06:03
That's okay.

Connor
00:06:05
No, yeah, I think just good to see where you're at right now with it because obviously it's.

Connor
00:06:10
Yeah, it's right before.

Host
00:06:13
Right.

Host
00:06:14
It would be so interesting to ask me the same question in like six weeks and see if I've like come, you know, like right, right now I feel like I'm like spinning and still.

Connor
00:06:26
A lot of unknowns.

Host
00:06:27
There's so many unknowns and I just want this, you know, to be, to get into the hands of all the people who really need it and, and just to be out there.

Host
00:06:41
So.

Host
00:06:42
Yeah.

Gray
00:06:43
We'll ask you a follow up question at the book launch.

Host
00:06:46
Uh.

Host
00:06:46
Oh, yeah.

Connor
00:06:49
There you go.

Host
00:06:50
There you go.

Host
00:06:50
That can be your.

Host
00:06:51
You can be the plant and you get asked.

Host
00:06:54
Yeah.

Connor
00:06:55
No one will recognize you as.

Gray
00:06:57
Oh, not at all.

Host
00:06:59
Who is that person asking that question?

Connor
00:07:03
Oh yeah.

Connor
00:07:05
Love it.

Host
00:07:07
So how do you both feel about me writing this book?

Host
00:07:12
And it's too late to say you don't want me to write it.

Host
00:07:18
I mean, just so everyone out there knows, I did ask this question before.

Host
00:07:22
Like I didn't write this without permission.

Host
00:07:24
But right, right now, now that we're here and you'd given your permission, are you like, what are you.

Host
00:07:33
How are you feeling?

Connor
00:07:34
Do you want to answer first?

Gray
00:07:36
Sure.

Gray
00:07:38
I mean, I feel excited for you.

Gray
00:07:40
I mean, I think it's something, you know, we've gotten to see you get excited and, you know, go through the motions of writing a book and I'm excited for people to be able to read it.

Gray
00:07:52
I'm proud of you.

Gray
00:07:54
I mean, I haven't read it yet.

Gray
00:07:57
We have the books, but I haven't read it.

Gray
00:07:59
I'll get on that.

Gray
00:08:02
But I mean, I'm obviously not in it as much as Connor is, but there's nothing.

Gray
00:08:09
I'm not like, nothing.

Gray
00:08:11
I'm afraid of sharing.

Gray
00:08:12
I guess I'm hopeful that, you know, whatever is in the book is helpful to people.

Connor
00:08:20
Good answer.

Connor
00:08:21
Yeah, no, I agree on that first part.

Connor
00:08:24
I think, you know, obviously, of course, you know, we were more than okay with our.

Connor
00:08:29
Our share.

Connor
00:08:30
My gosh.

Connor
00:08:30
Our stories being shared and that it, you know, reaches the right people.

Connor
00:08:36
I think there's always that now that it's at the point of, like, almost releasing.

Connor
00:08:40
There is definitely still a part of me.

Connor
00:08:42
And I know I'd mentioned to this to you at one point, mom, but, like, know, just hoping that it reaches the right crowd.

Connor
00:08:48
This is different than the Internet, but, like, as things on the Internet tend to do, they'll, you know, start in, like, a queer space and then they'll reach broader society.

Connor
00:08:58
And that's where things, you know, there tends to be maybe a little more controversy.

Connor
00:09:02
And so I'm not that, you know, book sales operate in the same way as the Internet, but there's obviously that level of maybe not concern, but, you know, just kind of curious to see how things play out in that regard.

Connor
00:09:17
But no, I mean, I think it's cool.

Connor
00:09:19
I think.

Connor
00:09:20
I mean, I'll speak from, like, personal experience.

Connor
00:09:22
Actually, like, this weekend kind of reached, like, it's reached a kind of weird metal meta level of, like, you know, I kind of forgot that, like, you know, I had that this aspect of my life has been shared.

Connor
00:09:36
You know, it was a part of the book, but also the podcast and all of that.

Connor
00:09:41
And obviously no issue with it, but I was actually part of a gay volleyball league.

Connor
00:09:47
And so after one of the games, I was at, like, a happy hour, and one of the guys who I'm, like, sort of friends with, but I had posted like, a year ago when we had done the podcast together, we had done an episode together, and I posted that, like, just like a link to it on my story on Instagram.

Connor
00:10:05
And I guess he had checked it out and you listened through, which was, like, really sweet.

Connor
00:10:10
And so, like, he had, like, come up and just, like, started talking to me about, like, you know, I won't air out our conversation, but, you know, Josh, if you're listening, hey.

Connor
00:10:17
But it was very sweet because, you know, he had said, like, you know, it's very just like, very inspiring to hear that, like, you, mom, were able to kind of embrace us and be able to make such a, you know, distinct change in your life or like, just in the way that you parent and the way that you, you know, Kind of view things.

Connor
00:10:41
And I know that's been, you know, continually been a part of your journey.

Connor
00:10:44
But just like, see, he had said that it was, you know, just inspiring to see that as a tangible story.

Connor
00:10:52
So my chance to give a roundabout answer, but just like it.

Connor
00:10:55
Yeah, just very interesting how not only the story itself has evolved, but like just kind of the reception to it and the impact that it's had and the reach that it's had, which, you know, I'm sure will only be magnified by the book.

Connor
00:11:14
So.

Connor
00:11:15
Yeah, it's cool.

Host
00:11:18
So sweet.

Host
00:11:19
I love that point because I think that.

Host
00:11:24
And it's something that I've been like recognizing in recent weeks and I think that's part of my like anxiety about the, you know, it actually is.

Host
00:11:35
There's one thing about doing a podcast, right, because we're all here talking like this.

Host
00:11:40
So maximum.

Host
00:11:44
There's like this interaction, right, with another human being and then I put it out into the world and that's out in the world.

Host
00:11:51
And you know, occasionally I'll get stuff that's like, you know, how people can be.

Host
00:11:58
But for the most part I'm, you know, if people are reaching out to me, it's people who are kind and grateful and beautiful.

Host
00:12:07
Right?

Host
00:12:08
And but putting, writing a book and putting a book out in the world or do it, it's like a thousand times more visible.

Host
00:12:17
And I think that's what I've just like put my finger on.

Host
00:12:19
I'm like, oh, this is what it is.

Host
00:12:21
Because I, you know, my whole life have like worked very hard to be as not visible as possible for multiple reasons.

Host
00:12:30
And just in recent years I've been like slowly, ever so slowly, more comfortable with being visible and talking about hard things and.

Host
00:12:41
But this is like times a thousand.

Host
00:12:46
So there's, I think that is like I put my finger on, that's where, where the anxiety is.

Host
00:12:52
A lot of the anxiety is coming from is like, oh, wow.

Host
00:12:55
Like once this is out there, it's out there.

Host
00:12:58
Like there's just, there's no take backs, right?

Host
00:13:01
And then I also have to like, you know, that's being very self centered too.

Host
00:13:10
This is not about me.

Host
00:13:12
So, you know, I guess it's, it's about like this conversation right here is about our experience, each of our experience in this.

Host
00:13:20
But the bigger picture is so worth it, right?

Host
00:13:25
Like for me, it's like I will take whatever comes at me if it means that it helps people, right?

Connor
00:13:36
Yeah, 100%.

Host
00:13:39
Yeah.

Host
00:13:40
So thank you, thank you for coming along on that ride.

Host
00:13:43
With me there.

Connor
00:13:46
Yeah.

Connor
00:13:47
No, I mean, I think.

Connor
00:13:48
Yeah.

Connor
00:13:50
Another easy question that there we could each speak on is just like from the beginning, I guess.

Connor
00:13:57
Of course, the podcast came before the planning of the book.

Connor
00:14:02
Or did the planning of the book come before the podcast?

Host
00:14:07
I'm trying to remember.

Host
00:14:08
I think that the planning of the book.

Host
00:14:12
I wrote the book proposal.

Host
00:14:16
I think I was in the midst of writing the book proposal when I started the podcast.

Host
00:14:21
Yeah, I think that's how it worked.

Host
00:14:22
And then that got shelved because of the pandemic.

Connor
00:14:26
Right.

Host
00:14:26
So then I was doing the podcast for like a year and a half or two years, and that's when I got the contract for the book.

Connor
00:14:34
That's right.

Connor
00:14:34
Okay.

Connor
00:14:35
Well, anyway, at the beginning of this project, we'll say, you know, to now, I guess, what have you noticed, you know, in yourself or in our family dynamic or, you know, even more broadly?

Connor
00:14:50
What have you noticed is like the biggest shift, the biggest change between us, whatever.

Connor
00:15:01
And Grace, this goes for you too.

Host
00:15:03
So do you have an answer?

Host
00:15:05
Because I.

Host
00:15:05
I have to.

Gray
00:15:06
I was going to wait for you to respond.

Host
00:15:10
I mean, a number of things.

Host
00:15:14
That's such a great question.

Host
00:15:16
Bravo.

Host
00:15:18
As I've been reading the book for Audible, there have been a couple of times that I've read through things and I've been like, oh, we've actually like grown from there.

Host
00:15:31
So not that like anything I've read.

Host
00:15:33
Have I been like, oh, well, that's completely false now.

Host
00:15:36
It's been more like, well, that was definitely a place where we were or I was or you were or dad or whomever was talking about.

Host
00:15:45
And now we've.

Host
00:15:47
We've evolved to the next point.

Host
00:15:51
So I think that would be, I mean, one of the big.

Host
00:15:53
For me personally, I will say that where I've seen that the most, and this is again, my like, personal journey around spirituality and religion.

Host
00:16:05
So I've had to.

Host
00:16:12
There.

Host
00:16:13
There's been a lot that I have like, worked through, let go of, deconstructed, tried to figure, you know, working on figuring, actively working on figuring out what.

Host
00:16:24
What it all means to me, you know, where.

Host
00:16:26
Where I am with that.

Host
00:16:28
So I think that's a place that I'm still very much like, was very interesting for me to.

Host
00:16:36
To look back and see kind of how that's evolved and still is evolving actively.

Connor
00:16:41
So totally.

Connor
00:16:43
I love that.

Connor
00:16:45
I think that's excellent.

Gray
00:16:47
Yeah.

Gray
00:16:48
I mean, for me, I guess one of the bigger things that I've noticed would probably be communication, know, between us all.

Gray
00:17:03
I mean, from start to finish with this whole process.

Gray
00:17:06
It's been in a pretty, like, integral time in my life, like going middle school to now I'm graduating high school, and just, you know, watching kind of how all of us experience each of those and how this process has affected that.

Gray
00:17:29
But, you know, as a family, I feel like we talk so much.

Gray
00:17:38
I don't know, like, in comparison to a lot of my friends.

Gray
00:17:42
I know, you know, we have family dinner every night, and we talk.

Gray
00:17:47
And I know, like, you and Connor are calling.

Gray
00:17:51
They have, like, you talk, eat once a week, and you.

Gray
00:17:54
And you catch up with Isabel at least once a week.

Gray
00:17:57
And I think that's so special.

Gray
00:17:59
And I think it's something really important that, you know, six years ago, we didn't have that level of communication with each other.

Gray
00:18:09
And I think that's just been something really important that we've grown into.

Host
00:18:14
And do you think that's like, the.

Host
00:18:18
The connection that we have or the growth as human beings or, like, the ages that you all were then as opposed to now?

Host
00:18:31
Because you.

Host
00:18:31
I mean, so let's say seven years ago.

Host
00:18:35
I mean, Connor, you were Rowan's age seven years ago, which is so weird to think about.

Host
00:18:41
Right?

Host
00:18:42
Like, so that's, like, that's the oldest, and Rowan was nine.

Host
00:18:48
So communicating to those ages is a lot.

Host
00:18:51
Or communicating with those ages of kids is a lot different than communicating with, you know, between 16 and 23, almost 24.

Host
00:19:00
Do you think that is it, or do you think there's.

Host
00:19:03
Because I know what you're saying.

Gray
00:19:06
I think it's a lot more about, you know, who we are as people and how we've all, you know, grown.

Gray
00:19:14
Because things that have, like, we've gone through as a family could have very well, you know, taken, like, made us grown apart.

Gray
00:19:24
You know, we didn't have to then grow back together because I feel like there were.

Gray
00:19:29
There were periods of time where we, like, there was not a lot of connection.

Gray
00:19:33
Like, we were all struggling with different things, and we were very it far apart for a period of time.

Gray
00:19:40
Like, we're all focused on very different things.

Gray
00:19:43
And it took a while to kind of, like, we all came to terms with, you know, stuff.

Gray
00:19:50
And a lot of it, I think, was Covid when we.

Gray
00:19:55
We were forced to be together.

Gray
00:19:57
And we kind of were able to, I guess, kick back, like, start that communication going again and have the ability, like.

Gray
00:20:09
Because, yeah, our ages are different, but, like, the person, the people we were years ago, like Connor and Isabel going to college, I feel like those people wouldn't Keep up the communication, you know.

Host
00:20:24
Yeah.

Gray
00:20:25
So I think it's just something.

Gray
00:20:27
Every day when I talk to people and, you know, we each talk about our families, our whatever.

Gray
00:20:34
I'm proud and glad to say that, like, we do have a strong connection and we talk a lot to each other.

Host
00:20:42
Do you think it's because we've made it a priority or because we have, like.

Host
00:20:52
Because we have gone through some things together as a family that have just brought us closer or that we've each done, like, such intensive individual work that we've, like, that's brought us together?

Host
00:21:09
Do you think it's, like, all of those things or one guiding thing?

Gray
00:21:14
I think it's definitely a mix of it all.

Gray
00:21:16
And I think so much of it really did come from, like.

Gray
00:21:23
I don't think I've ever said I'm grateful for Covid, but I'm grateful for that time that we were forced, like, we could be together.

Host
00:21:32
It's a good silver lining.

Gray
00:21:33
Yeah.

Gray
00:21:35
Because it.

Gray
00:21:36
It gave us, like, we had all gotten a lot of set, like, time apart.

Gray
00:21:41
Connor, you were in your freshman year of college, like, you.

Gray
00:21:45
That.

Gray
00:21:45
We each kind of took a step back from a lot of things and had that time to, you know, deal with whatever we wanted on our own.

Gray
00:21:53
And then we were put back together, and I think that's kind of what helped.

Connor
00:22:01
Yeah.

Host
00:22:01
Do you have any thoughts on that?

Connor
00:22:04
No.

Connor
00:22:04
I mean, I think Grace hit the nail on the head.

Connor
00:22:06
You know, I don't think it's one specific thing that, you know, led to the dynamic that we have today.

Connor
00:22:13
I think it really is.

Connor
00:22:14
Yeah, just a lot of little things, little factors.

Connor
00:22:19
Covid absolutely was a big part of it.

Connor
00:22:22
I mean.

Connor
00:22:23
But.

Connor
00:22:23
Yeah, no, I mean, I was kind of, I guess, reflecting on a similar thing and just that, you know, since I've been in New York and, you know, meeting new people and talking about, you know, your family life and all that, it's definitely something that over time and I've come to appreciate more and more.

Connor
00:22:42
Yeah, the same thing that it's like, you know, the dynamic that we have, the relationships that we have are not the norm.

Connor
00:22:52
And, you know, I think especially, you know, in the bubble that we grew up in that you guys, you know, currently reside in, there is kind of a.

Connor
00:23:04
Even though, Grace, you said, like, you know, there's still, like, it's clear that, like, the dynamic isn't the same.

Connor
00:23:09
There's still kind of a general.

Connor
00:23:13
I don't know what the word would be.

Connor
00:23:15
It seems like everything's fine and everyone Kind of has a good, you know, situation, but then kind of like, you know, just meeting more people where that, like, was not the case, where there was kind of a more.

Connor
00:23:27
There wasn't as much acceptance and they're coming out or, you know, whatever it may be.

Connor
00:23:32
You know, I've just come to appreciate that.

Connor
00:23:34
Yeah.

Connor
00:23:34
You know, we are very lucky.

Connor
00:23:36
I am very lucky that we are all still so close and that, you know, mom, you had touched on the aspect of evolving.

Connor
00:23:45
And I think that that's something that also holds true, is that, you know, everyone has been very willing to grow and change.

Connor
00:23:52
Well, yeah, everyone has been willing to grow and change at their own pace, for sure.

Connor
00:23:57
But, you know, we are all.

Connor
00:24:00
Yeah.

Connor
00:24:01
Growing and continuing to examine our own patterns.

Connor
00:24:06
And obviously, you know, therapy is a big part of that, at least for me.

Connor
00:24:12
Having that, you know, consistent piece of examining yourself.

Connor
00:24:17
Yeah.

Connor
00:24:18
You know, I think.

Connor
00:24:19
But obviously.

Connor
00:24:20
Yeah.

Connor
00:24:20
Yeah, so.

Connor
00:24:21
But I think you guys already kind of touched on the general differences between then and now, so.

Gray
00:24:29
Yeah.

Host
00:24:29
Yeah, I love that.

Host
00:24:33
I think part of it, too, is, like, becoming aware not only of, like, who we each are as people, the greater world and what's going on, and, like, really understanding and learning to be.

Host
00:24:57
To, like, ask questions and be curious about things instead of just to be, like, stuck in, like, this.

Host
00:25:02
Like, this is how it is.

Host
00:25:03
This is what I know.

Host
00:25:04
And I'm staying right here because this is safe.

Host
00:25:07
And I think that's where I, at least me, personally, live for a very long time.

Host
00:25:13
And even though it's much scary out out here in the wild, it's way more interesting and, like, real.

Host
00:25:25
And I just think it is such a.

Host
00:25:29
It's such a gift.

Connor
00:25:31
Well, definitely.

Host
00:25:32
Right.

Host
00:25:33
I mean, and I think for people who are, like, afraid that they're too old or that things have to be a certain way to, like, just take that, you know, take a chance to realize or to.

Host
00:25:49
You know what I mean, to, like.

Host
00:26:45
I'm not being very articulate.

Host
00:26:47
I apologize.

Connor
00:26:48
I was gonna touch on this.

Connor
00:26:49
It's just that, like, you know, obviously, very.

Connor
00:26:53
Without sounding patrizing, like, you know, proud of you for the journey that you've taken, specifically in the, like, deconstruction of spirituality in your faith.

Connor
00:27:01
Because I think that's a big part of it, too, is the neuroplasticity in that regard, because, you know, your willingness to examine those things and your willingness to see that, like, okay, well, like, that worked for me at a period of time, but maybe that doesn't fit that well anymore.

Connor
00:27:17
And actually, Making that change and actually following that, moving towards that change versus being afraid of it.

Connor
00:27:24
And I think that's obviously, you know, this is not shocking for me to say, but, you know, a lot of people are stuck in that.

Connor
00:27:30
And that's obviously like, you know, that's the whole spiel with religion, namely Christianity, like, is that, you know, you don't question that, you just follow it blindly.

Connor
00:27:41
And that thinking obviously then bleeds into every other aspect of your life.

Connor
00:27:45
And that is, why not, chief?

Connor
00:27:48
You know, not singularly, but like, that's part of why, you know, people aren't willing to accept, you know, queer people in their life, for lack of better wording.

Connor
00:27:59
Like, you know, and I think that is kind of the common thread when, you know, I hear from people who have accepting family members who, you know, even if they're from, you know, typically the Midwest, there's a level of like, oh, yeah, you know, my parents used to be super religious, but like, now they've come around or now they're, you know, coming around.

Connor
00:28:19
And I think that's kind of the all you can really hope for.

Connor
00:28:24
But yeah, it's the kind of the deconstruction and the willingness to examine yourself and move towards the discomfort and all that.

Host
00:28:37
Yes, exactly.

Gray
00:28:40
I mean, I'd just like to give like kudos to you because not only are you willing to, you know, try and relearn what works for you, you have created a space where it's like, this is what I believe, and I'm learning that I believe and what I, you know, want to follow, but you can do whatever you'd like.

Gray
00:29:05
You know, we grew up going to church, but at a certain point, like, it stopped working for our family.

Gray
00:29:12
So it was like, okay, we don't have to go.

Gray
00:29:15
And letting us figure out what we believe in and what we want to follow and think, you've left us like such a space, you know, where it's like we can have, we have a lot of conversations about religion and you let me talk it out and you let me, you know, ask questions and figure it out.

Gray
00:29:40
And it's just, I mean, I think that's really impressive that you're, you, you know what you believe in and you're willing to have conversations about what other people believe in and you want other people believe in other things than you do.

Host
00:29:56
Wow, thank you.

Host
00:29:59
That is very well said.

Host
00:30:02
I have two very well spoken kids while I sit here and I can't put a sentence together, which you two know why, but I still am like feeling a Little, like, goofy today.

Host
00:30:18
So my apologies, everyone.

Host
00:30:21
Thank you.

Host
00:30:22
I'm so glad you said that.

Host
00:30:23
I'm both of you, like, I'm really touched and, like, certainly not why I wanted you both to go on today and talk about the book and everything else.

Host
00:30:36
But that's really.

Host
00:30:37
I think I'm particularly moved by both of these thoughts and perspectives because one of the things that I.

Host
00:30:51
It's so funny because I hear this in my head.

Host
00:30:53
Like, when you said it, it just like went through my head again, even though I know it's completely, like, unequivocally false.

Host
00:31:01
But letting you, you know, figure out what you believe, like, is such something that I was, you know, always heard growing up and taught that, you know, those.

Host
00:31:12
Those people that let their kids think whatever they want to think and believe whatever they want to believe, like, those are bad people.

Host
00:31:19
They're blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, bad parents.

Host
00:31:22
And I still, like, hear that.

Host
00:31:24
And I have to, like, literally, like, there's like such a level of, like, awareness and conscious, like, nope, that's old stuff.

Host
00:31:34
Like, that is totally old.

Host
00:31:36
That is totally false.

Host
00:31:39
It's part of.

Host
00:31:40
It's my old story that's like creeping in and being a pain and it needs to just.

Host
00:31:46
And at some point it's, you know, that it's going to become more and more quiet.

Host
00:31:50
But just.

Host
00:31:51
I say that out loud because I want people, you know, listening to know that it's not like one day you wake up and you decide to make, you know, some to evolve and that you just evolve and all the other stuff just never comes up again because it does forever and ever, till the end of time.

Host
00:32:11
It just becomes less loud and less believable and, you know, at times comedic.

Connor
00:32:20
And life becomes a lot more fun when you're willing to make those changes.

Connor
00:32:24
I mean, you know, you look at what our family Christmas looks like versus the one in Ohio, and it's pretty staunch difference.

Connor
00:32:31
So I think that.

Host
00:32:33
Well, I think isn't it like, this is what I think it is.

Host
00:32:36
Like when you.

Host
00:32:37
When we decided, like, what is going to be like, the guiding feeling, like, are we going to be guided by, like, love and joy and like, like the delight of being around each other and like, on all the things that we say and do, which are, we know, are not a normal family or are we going to be like, like fearful and judgy and rigid and that's.

Host
00:33:09
That is just no fun.

Connor
00:33:11
It's true.

Connor
00:33:12
It's very true.

Host
00:33:14
Some people are super happy that you all were like, this is Who I am.

Host
00:33:21
And it was kind of the unstated, like, here I am.

Host
00:33:28
You have some choices to make.

Host
00:33:30
Yeah, right.

Host
00:33:33
And bravo to you.

Host
00:33:34
I mean, you never said that, but it was like, now that I look back and I think, oh, my gosh, like, the.

Host
00:33:43
You know, how you're, like, you're just moved in the ways you're supposed to be moved in when you're, like, really paying attention to who you authentically are and who your people authentically are.

Host
00:33:54
I feel like we were all kind of, like, spiritually connected and rode this like crazy, you know, all of our crazy waves, but, like, did the work that we needed to do and.

Host
00:34:10
But that started.

Host
00:34:12
Yeah, you were the first domino.

Host
00:34:14
Way to go, right?

Connor
00:34:16
Well, yeah.

Connor
00:34:16
And that, like, aspect, too, is just thinking about that, like, recently, just that, like, you know, that change probably wouldn't have happened had I kind of just remained at home and on that track that I was on.

Connor
00:34:27
Like, I think there was an immense amount of validity to the seven months I had spent on my own.

Connor
00:34:35
It really did allow for that kind of initial take a step back and examine what do I actually believe versus what kind of has been not told but taught and held up as a model, an example.

Connor
00:34:50
And obviously, it's not just what you and dad, but just in general, what.

Connor
00:34:55
What culture was the society, the specific bubble that we lived in that.

Connor
00:35:00
Yeah, you know, kind of allowed for the first.

Connor
00:35:02
Maybe not first, but ushered in kind of an era of everyone starting to take a step back and reexamine.

Connor
00:35:11
Obviously, I think, you know, for Grace and Rowan and Isabelle and specifically Rowan's doing his own thing.

Connor
00:35:18
But for you, too, it was, you know, but especially once you hit kind of the middle to end of high school, where it really became like, that's kind of when it happens that, like, those changes really happen for you, which is cool.

Connor
00:35:32
It's cool to see.

Host
00:35:33
So it is cool.

Host
00:35:35
Yeah.

Host
00:35:36
And to your point, I think that is so, you know, at the time, it was like, it was not even a question.

Host
00:35:42
Like, once we realized, like, oh, like, this is like a major bonafide crisis and we have to do something major and, like, sticking with you being away even though you were so mad and you didn't talk to me, and multiple people were like, your relationship's never going to be the same with him.

Host
00:36:07
He's not going to talk to you anymore.

Host
00:36:10
All the things that we were told over time by different therapists that were, you know, there and professionals and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Host
00:36:19
And for us to be like, no, these Are.

Host
00:36:24
Yeah, he's our kid and we're going to figure this out.

Host
00:36:28
And I mean overall that was the most positive thing we could have done.

Host
00:36:35
Right.

Host
00:36:36
For all the reasons that weren't necessarily like what you were getting on a day to day basis there, but like the lessons that you learned over time about who you inherently are and, and how you wanted to show up in the world.

Host
00:36:49
So.

Host
00:36:50
And I think then that helped, you know, with just being able to communicate at home and offer more space to you guys and you know, even when you were like really mad about us not telling you.

Connor
00:37:09
Different time.

Connor
00:37:12
Yeah, it's okay.

Host
00:37:13
You were allowed to be.

Connor
00:37:15
Yeah, exactly.

Connor
00:37:17
Yeah.

Connor
00:37:18
So love it.

Host
00:37:20
I know.

Host
00:37:21
All right, Is there anything else that we want to chit chat about about the book or anything else surrounding it?

Connor
00:37:28
We're back to Grace's list real quick.

Host
00:37:31
I know.

Host
00:37:31
Thanks.

Host
00:37:32
Thanks to Grace.

Host
00:37:33
We have lots of interesting questions and topics.

Host
00:37:38
Thank you.

Host
00:37:39
Thank you.

Gray
00:37:40
I did want to throw out, you know, kind of talking on this past topic how grateful I am of Connor and you know, just I think I models, I've modeled and will probably continue to model so much around of my life around you.

Gray
00:38:02
But I recently, you know, was trying to write a commencement speech for my graduation and you know, I'd mentioned you in it and how so much of like who I am today and how I've grown to who I am is because of you.

Gray
00:38:18
And I mean it wholeheartedly because I mean the day you came out to us was the day I was like, what is gay?

Gray
00:38:27
I don't.

Gray
00:38:28
Don't know.

Gray
00:38:28
And that kind of.

Gray
00:38:29
It spiraled to where I am now.

Gray
00:38:31
You introduced mental health for me and you know, I wouldn't be as happy as I were.

Gray
00:38:39
You know, you dyed your hair first, you got piercing tattoos.

Gray
00:38:42
I just so much of who I am is because of you.

Gray
00:38:47
And yeah, thank you, Grace.

Connor
00:38:51
That's very sweet.

Connor
00:38:52
And I mean, you know, on the flip side of that, I think it has been very rewarding.

Connor
00:38:59
I don't know if that.

Connor
00:38:59
Yeah.

Connor
00:39:00
Rewarding to see you grow into the little gay that you are today and you know, really getting to start, I mean, you know, obviously you've had your own struggles and everyone does, but I think it feels good to know that maybe I got some of the, you know, rockier part of the experience out of the ways that you were able to start at a little higher up.

Connor
00:39:25
Not a little, but, you know, a little.

Connor
00:39:27
You didn't have to do deal with the same stuff.

Connor
00:39:29
So now you are much further along in Your identity and your sense of self by the time you're, you know, heading off to college.

Connor
00:39:37
I think it took me quite a couple more years to be at that point.

Connor
00:39:42
So I think it's very inspiring.

Connor
00:39:45
You know, I think I'm definitely inspired by your journey as well.

Connor
00:39:49
And that's not just, you know, me returning a compliment, but, like, really, truly, I think it's.

Connor
00:39:55
It's very cool to see and, you know, it's something that I'm proud of.

Connor
00:40:01
And I think, you know, just to be able to, like, tell people that it's like, yeah, you know, I'm.

Connor
00:40:05
I'm.

Connor
00:40:06
I started the trend.

Connor
00:40:07
But, you know, certainly you certainly match the energy, and I think that's very special.

Connor
00:40:16
And obviously, you know, mom and dad are a big part of that as well for, you know, holding space and supporting that and, you know, really allowing us to explore in our identity.

Connor
00:40:31
And yeah, it's really cool because again, that's not the norm, so should be.

Connor
00:40:37
And hopefully we'll continue to move in that direction.

Connor
00:40:40
It will move in that direction.

Host
00:40:42
But, you know, that's a big part, I think, of why I wanted to write this book.

Host
00:40:49
I mean, it's not just about, like, here's what you do when your kid says they're gay, like, so much more of it.

Host
00:40:57
And it's interesting because one of the first reviews that I got on NetGalley was somebody who had read it, like a professional reviewer who knew those.

Host
00:41:06
Those existed, but they do, and this person read it and they were wanting, like, very specific information about what to say to somebody when they come out as gay, which the book does not have, FYI.

Host
00:41:22
Anybody looking for that, I mean, other than tell your kid that you love them for who they are right now in this moment in time.

Host
00:41:31
I mean, there's, there's.

Host
00:41:33
I'm not going to hold your hand in that way.

Host
00:41:35
I will hold your hand in, like, a million other ways in this book.

Host
00:41:39
But it's around, like, the work that each of us needs to do and, and learning to hold that space, learning to, how do you do that?

Host
00:41:53
How do you sit with things that are uncomfortable?

Host
00:41:56
What does that feel like, and how do you do that?

Host
00:41:59
So kind of approaching topics that are a little more abstract, but also topics that can be used in so many different ways, right.

Host
00:42:19
Just to become better human beings and hopefully create just a better world.

Heather Hester
00:42:31
Thanks so much for joining me today.

Heather Hester
00:42:34
If you enjoyed today's episode, I would be so grateful.

Heather Hester
00:42:38
For a rating or review, click on the link in the show notes or Go to my website, chrysalismama.com to stay up to date on my latest resources, as well as to learn how you can work with me.

Heather Hester
00:42:53
Please share this podcast with anyone who needs to know that they are not alone and remember to just breathe until next time.