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the more we notice in music, the more interesting we may find it to be.
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And to that end, we have found that providing a listening guide
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can be very helpful in noticing all sorts of things in music.
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So let's jump right into the Infernal Dance of King Kostry
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from Igor Stravinsky's 1919 suite, taken from his ballet
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The Firebird, originally composed in 1910.
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At number one in your listening guide it says,
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the melodic pattern is played how many times?
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And also asks, which instrument joins the French horns and bassoons?
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So here's the pattern one time.
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Would you like to listen to that again? Here it is slower.
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Sing it with us on da da da as we play this pattern slowly at number one.
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Oh, hold on. Let me get the orchestra going.
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Now I know that you can sing that with much more energy. Okay, here we go again.
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Yeah, much better. Now you fill in the gaps in your listening guide
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in the information before we get to number two.
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Is something funny? Okay, so how many times did the pattern occur?
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Zero, right. Some of you may have noticed that was not the same piece of music.
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And we played the wrong piece of music on purpose just to see if you were really listening.
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That music was from an opera about another legendary bird in Russian folklore.
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In this case, the Golden Rooster, composed by one of Stravinsky's
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teachers and perhaps his strongest influence, Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov.
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And Stravinsky found a lot of inspiration for his ballet score The Firebird
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in his teacher's opera, The Golden Rooster. Stravinsky also learned from Rimsky-Korsakov
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how to choose which instruments play which notes in the score, a technique called orchestration.
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But playing the wrong music also gives us an opportunity to briefly discuss
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the difference between hearing music and listening to music.
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The truth is we have all been trained to ignore music as a kind of sonic wallpaper.
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The electronically reproduced music that accompanies almost every activity in our lives,
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dining in restaurants, shopping at the supermarket, driving in our cars, waiting in waiting rooms.
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We could make a very long list of things we do every day while music is in the background.
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We have to make a conscious decision to actually listen to music, to make it the center of our
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focus and to be completely present with the music. So knowing that we must choose to listen,
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once again at number one in the listening guide, we'll ask you to keep track of how many times
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the pattern occurs before we get to number two and which instrument joins in at the end
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of this short pattern. We promise not to tease you this time.
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Well, the instrument that joined at the end of the phrase was which?
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Tuba! It was the tuba. The unique sound of each instrument is just one of the things that we can
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focus on if we decide to give music our undivided attention. Another aspect or element we can pay
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attention to is the form of the music. How the music is put together, as in how many times did
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the melodic pattern occur before we got to number two in the listening guide and that was? Three.
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Three. Exactly. Three times it is.
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Hello, piano enthusiasts. You are tuned into the PianoPod with me,
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Yukimi Song. Today we're delving deeper into the second installment of this season's sixth episode
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with the phenomenal conductor, educator, and TV personality, Maestro George Marion Amal. In case
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you missed our captivating conversation in part one where we explored Maestro's fascinating journey
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with the Discovery Orchestra, a groundbreaking New Jersey-based musical initiative focused on
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teaching, listening skills, and dedicated to transforming classical music experiences for
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general audiences through innovative engagement with classical masterpieces, don't worry,
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you can catch up on all the excitement on your favorite podcasting platform.
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A warm welcome to all our new listeners. This podcast is your all-access pass to the captivating
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world of piano. In each episode of the PianoPod, I interview a guest speaker who has been breaking
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exciting new ground in the industry. Please rate the show and review it on your favorite podcasting
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platform because every rating review will help people discover my show.
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So as we approach the season of Thanksgiving, we want to extend our heartfelt gratitude for
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your loyal listenership. Since 2020, we've been exploring how to make classical music resonate in
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fresh ways with today's audience. To keep bringing you these episodes, we rely on your support.
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Every contribution aids in covering essential podcast expenses. So do you want to be part of
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this journey? Click the PayPal link in the show notes or visit the pianopod.com to donate.
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I'll personally mail you the PianoPod's snazzy logo sticker as a token of gratitude. So my friends,
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here is part two of the PianoPod's season four, episode six with Maestro George Marino-Mall.
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Please enjoy the show. Where does this passion come from? I really want to know your life, right?
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Uh-oh, are you sure? Are you sure? Oh, yes, I'm very sure. You are, you know, obviously,
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classical musician. You started out as a violist and then the conductor, an amazing
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accomplished conductor, and then TV radio personality, educator, and producer. So can
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you share the story of how your journey with classical music began and what inspired you to
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become a musician and that led to be an educator and a conductor? Uh, fasten your seatbelt.
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Okay.
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You know, the story began absolutely with my mother, Helen, who was very well-trained and
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accomplished classical pianist and was the neighborhood piano teacher in my neighborhood
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in Philadelphia where I grew up. And I sometimes wondered because I know that babies, while they
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are still in the womb in the last month or so in the womb, apparently hearing begins to develop.
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And I've thought to myself, how many times did I hear my mother practice that Chopin etude or that
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Debussy Prelude or that Mozart sonata while I was still inside her? You know, it's like I was a
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captive audience. She would sit at the piano and of course practice every day. And then once I was
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born, you know, although I didn't understand or realize what was happening, obviously at the
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beginning, there was music going on. It seemed like 24-7 in our house. You know, she would invite
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other musicians in, string quartet members to play with her or opera singers from the Philadelphia
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Lyric Opera to come over and sing while she played for them. So the seminal event, because we talked
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about this, we all, you said we all remember that moment when we were first so moved by some
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classical music. I was four and a half and of course living at home just before I started
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kindergarten. My mother had purchased an LP recording of Dvorak's New World Symphony.
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Now we lived with my mother's mother, father, and aunt. So there were seven of us in the house,
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including my brother, me, my mother, father, and these other three individuals. And so my mother
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was out shopping for groceries and my great aunt was babysitting me. And the mailman arrived with
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this LP record. So I didn't know what it was, but Aunt Enda knew what it was and she got out our
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portable department store monophonic disgusting record player. I mean, the sound of this device
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was really inferior and it even wasn't wired properly. The tone arm could give you a little
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shock electronically sometimes. But in any event, Aunt Enda said, I will put this record on. And
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I was absolutely transfixed as a four and a half year old. I began crying. I was having goosebumps.
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I had never heard violins playing so high or, you know, crescendos that took over the room,
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even on this stupid little Monoroo record player. The sound of that symphony orchestra just really
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got me. And so I divide my life in two parts. There is before Dvorak, first four and a half years,
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and then there's everything that happened after Dvorak. Now, my mother, of course, began giving
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my brother and me piano lessons as little children, quickly realized that not probably a good idea to
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teach her own children music. They may not give it their best. So she farmed us out to piano teacher,
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friends of hers. So we each were studying with colleagues of hers. And then my mother and father
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and grandparents decided to send my brother and me to an Episcopal choir school for boys called St.
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Peter's Choir School in Philadelphia. School had been started in 1836 or something as a day school
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for kids, co-educational. But in the early 1900s, it then was switched. The organist who switched it
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was trying to model the cathedral choir schools of England. And so he made it only for boys.
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And so the education now would not only include a lot of academic preparation. I mean, when I
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was there, we had to stay in addition to math, science, history, English, Latin, French, and
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other things. We also had sightseeing class, mandatory piano lessons every day after school.
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There was a rehearsal. So this was a very thorough saturation in music. And it was really,
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that was when I became a performer. I mean, all the boys in the choir felt like performers
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because we sang two services a Sunday, every Sunday from September through June, and with
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different repertoire. And during seasons like Lent, in the evening, we would sing a different cantata,
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Bach cantata, or something else. So there was a lot of repertoire to learn. And in addition to the 45
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minute rehearsal after school every day, on Friday, after some playtime, you had dinner with the men
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of the choir in the cafeteria and then rehearsed with the men. Because of course, we sang in four
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part harmony in church. And then on Sundays, there was a rehearsal before each service. So
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it was a lot of rehearsing and there were special concerts. I mean, we would sing Messiah at the
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Academy of Music with the members of the Philadelphia Orchestra accompanying us. I mean,
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when the Philadelphia Orchestra needed a boy choir, we were the choir that would perform
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with the Philadelphia Orchestra when they needed a boy choir. So, you know, we felt
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like we were something. Right.
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We had a real identity. So obviously, it was a tremendous shock to leave the choir school
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and begin eighth grade at my local junior senior high school in Philadelphia. I went from having
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45 boys in my school. So like my classes only had like six or seven kids in them, 10 at the most.
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It was like being tutored in all these subjects. So here I get to a school that has 5,000 students,
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co-educational. And I was scared to death. But my mother knew that that public school had a really
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good music program. And so she felt that I would flourish there once I got over the shock of being
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with so many other kids every day. So it worked. And this was the next most important moment in my
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growth as a musician, because the choir director was very fine. She was a very fine vocalist herself.
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And a very fine conductor. The director of the orchestra was not the greatest conductor in the
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world. But, you know, he was more than willing to lend me a stringed instrument when I finally got
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up enough nerve in 11th grade to ask if I could borrow a stringed instrument from the school.
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They had all these instruments that they would lend to kids for free. And they would give you
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lessons on these instruments. But anyway, so in 11th grade, I asked the orchestra conductor if I
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could borrow something. He said, I have a cello and I have a viola. And I said, I think my grandmother
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plays the cello. I'll take the cello. Now, I had already fallen madly in love with the sound of the
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strings of the orchestra. And that was for just going to the Philadelphia Orchestra concerts as
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a child. My mother would take us and also some of the members of St. Peter's Church would have
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subscriptions at the Philadelphia Orchestra. When they couldn't use the tickets, they would give them
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to the choir boys to go to the concerts. So I was listening to the Philadelphia Orchestra live,
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all the time. And that sound of that string section just captivated me. So at a certain point,
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I got up enough nerve to ask this gentleman if I could borrow this cello. He said, come back this
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afternoon. And he said, I have a cello and a viola. And when I got back, and I know he did this on
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purpose, because he didn't have enough violas in the orchestra. He feigned absent mindedness. And
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he said, oh, I gave the cello to someone else. Would you take this viola? That is how George
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Mariner-Mowell became a violist. Totally by accident. So in any event, the other really
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important thing that happened at this school was the first year there in eighth grade. It was again,
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one of the... They didn't have middle school in those days. They had junior high schools and
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senior high schools. And junior high school was seventh and eighth grade. And then senior high
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school was ninth, tenth, eleventh and twelfth. So when I got there in eighth grade, sitting in the
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cafeteria, first week, I'm sitting and I hear coming down the hallway, the New World Symphony,
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the finale. And I'm thinking, I got to find out where this music's coming from. So I left my
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lunch and went down the hallway. And there was a separate wing for all the music classes and
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ensembles. There were two large rehearsal rooms and one smaller rehearsal room in several classrooms
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and offices for the faculty. But it was built in such a way that the noise pollution that
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musicians make did not reach the math classes and the English classes. We were walled off from the
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rest of the school. So I walked down this corridor to get to the music wing. And of course, the music
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was pouring out of this room. And the first thought that I had was, why are the students not
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misbehaving? Because I grew up in a working class neighborhood and all my friends thought that my
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obsession with classical music was rather nutty, eccentric. What's wrong with this kid? Because
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it wasn't that I didn't like rock and roll. I loved Elvis Presley. I loved the Everly Brothers.
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I had my own 45 records of 45 RPM records of them. But most of them really poo-pooed classical music.
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And so I'm thinking, the teacher in that room, he must either have bound and gagged the students
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or something because there's no peep coming out of them. They're just sitting there. So I sat down
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outside the classroom. And after a few minutes, Mr. Feinberg, the teacher who ultimately got his
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doctor's degree, Dr. Feinberg, he came out and said, wouldn't you rather sit in a chair? Why don't
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you come into the room? Saul Feinberg's whole mission in life was to teach teenagers how to
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listen to classical music. And he had written his doctoral thesis on this subject and developed a
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course which he called the Perceptive Listening Course. I learned everything I know about teaching
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music listening from that man. Now, because I was in the choir, I mean, obviously coming out of St.
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Peter's Choir School, the choir director grabbed me immediately and put me into the choir because
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I could read music and all those good things. So I thought, well, I'm just going to have to come to
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this class on my lunch hour and go as often as I can. So I began attending his classes, strictly
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auditing them, not for credit, not for anything, because I did not have to take those courses.
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No one who was in a music ensemble had to take this music listening course, but everyone else in
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the school did. So he affected the lives of thousands and thousands of kids over the decades
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he taught there. And he was a very fine pianist and a composer. Eventually I asked him to be my
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piano teacher. And so I had three years of studying piano with him as well. But I just soaked in his
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methodology. It's he who believed that answering problems, giving people problems to solve by
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listening was the best way to teach this material and also to tease them and taunt them and make
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sure they had that aha about whether they were listening or not. He would set them up so that
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students would say, well, that's not fair, Mr. Feinberg, because he would say, I'm going to give
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you all the grade of C, just all of you. And they would say, that's not fair. And he said, of course
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it isn't. But why don't you say that when I ask you to give your complete attention to this next
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piece of music? I could say you're not being fair. And of course, adolescents are possessed,
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preoccupied with the idea that life is not fair. And of course it only gets only gets worse as we
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become adults, as we know. We accept this idea somehow, to some degree. But in any event, he was
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a genius. Now, the man is still alive. And when I got out of music school in Louisville, no one in
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Louisville who played in the Louisville Orchestra or the opera company or the ballet orchestra or
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whatever, none of them made enough money to live off it. So everyone had a day job. And all
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professional musicians rehearsed at night. The Louisville Orchestra rehearsed at night. So you
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had people in the orchestra who taught music at a local public school or like my stand partner in
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the viola section worked for the newspaper. He worked for the Louisville Career News, you know.
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And there were just all sorts of people in that orchestra who were very fine musicians, highly
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trained, but had other day jobs. And the principals of the orchestra were the faculty members of the
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University of Louisville School of Music. But when I got out of school, I realized I'm going to have
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to get a day job now. So I took a job teaching at a private school and having had very little
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instruction in music education at the university because I was a performance major on the viola.
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I called Dr. Feinberg and said, I'm going to come up and visit my dad for a week in Philadelphia.
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Can I just hang out at your house all day long and talk to you? And so I did that. And he, well,
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before you get here, I want you to order a copy of my doctoral thesis from the University of Michigan,
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where they had copies of all these things on microfilm or something. And they would print
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you a copy of a thesis. He said, before you get here, read my thesis and then we'll talk about it.
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So I did that. And of course, it was an unbelievable week. And it only added on to what I had experienced
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as a young man in Lincoln High School sitting in his classroom, you know. And he really helped guide
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me into what I would do with the kids at private school. So put that experience into George Moll.
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Now, George Moll is married to a wonderful woman who's an opera singer. And I told her,
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if we don't move out of Louisville, you will never sing anywhere but Louisville, Kentucky.
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It just, you know, we have to move to New York City. We have to find you an agent. And then if
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things go well, you can have a career as an opera singer. So in 1975, we moved to New York City.
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And it was scary because I didn't know anybody in New York City, very few people, you know, just an
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occasional person, here or there, someone I'd met at the Aspen Festival in 1970, whatever, you know,
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but no real contact. And so my first wife and I got there, rented an apartment. And of course,
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I started playing the viola with anybody who would let me play with them. You know, in other words,
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I met someone who was a musician. I said, can we play quartets together? Because I wanted them to
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be able to tell the people who were the personnel managers and contractors for the freelance
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orchestras, this guy plays well, you know, hire him, hire him. And of course, I joined the union,
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all that sort of thing. Now, my wife's career, we got her an agent, and her career took off.
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And she was away for six months out of each year for a few years running there. And not all at once,
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but she made her Carnegie Hall debut that first year we were there with the Oratorio Society of
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New York, singing the Bach B Minor Mass as a soloist. And, you know, I was super happy for her.
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Problem was, it was difficult for us to keep our marriage intact, being apart from each other so
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much. And so at a certain point, we just decided that we would amicably part company. Not that that
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wasn't traumatic, because we had been married for 10 years. But here began my life in New York.
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And it was challenging. We were constantly running out of money. And we would call her father in
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Louisville and say, can we please borrow x amount of money? And he would say yes, knowing we never
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would be able to repay him. And then the next month, we would call my dad and say, Dad, can I
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go in part with some money for the rent or whatever, you know? Long story short, you know,
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I finally began to be able to support myself as a violist. I got enough work. And when I was playing
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with the freelance orchestras in the city, and I also, you know, my first wife said, Hey, George,
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you sing very well, you know, from your training at the choir school and that sort of thing.
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I'm going to give you voice lessons. And I want you to audition for a church job where you will
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be the baritone soloist. So I got a church job at a church in New Jersey where I was the baritone
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soloist, in addition to playing the viola. And I also auditioned for and became a member of the
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professional choir of the New York Philharmonic at that time, which was called the Comorado Singers.
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And that was when I got to sing under Pierre Boulez for the first time as a member of that
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chorus. So there were lots of very exciting experiences to go through. Obviously, I was
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totally bewildered and amazed and in love with New York City. It seemed like the greatest thing in
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the world. And I remember my friend from the Aspen Festival, who had lived in New York for 10 years,
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already said, enjoy it while you can, George. It will get to you after a while. But in any event,
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at a certain point, I became a violist for the Opera Orchestra of New York, which is
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conducted by a woman, Eve Queller, who had founded that ensemble. And they were giving
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concert performances of unknown operas by people like Verdi and Puccini and all the canon of
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composers, but operas that never get staged at the Met or anything like that. And they would do them
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just singing them, stand up singing them with the orchestra. And she would hire world famous
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singers to be the leads, Montserrat Caballé, Marilyn Horn, people like that. It was just,
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it was amazing. And then the lesser roles, she would populate with young singers. She would go
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on trips to Europe to find young singers who were unknowns. So they would come over and sing the
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other lesser roles. And she was so good at picking singers. Often after a performance with the Opera
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Orchestra, the next year, they would wind up being offered a contract at the Metropolitan Opera.
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You know, she launched their careers. It was just, it was incredible. But what a thrill. I mean,
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she was the first conductor to hire me. And what a thrill that first January to be sitting on the
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stage of Carnegie Hall, playing with this wonderful orchestra, this incredible music. And so I loved
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that life quite a while, but I still wanted to be a conductor. That was something that had entered
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my mind in the choir school, watching Philadelphia Orchestra, watching Eugene Armacee conduct the
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orchestra. You know, it was, you know, I just thought I would love to do that. But I never
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told anyone for a long time. In fact, when I told my viola teacher in the Philadelphia Orchestra
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that I wanted to do this, just before I left for music school in Louisville, I said, I want to be
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a conductor. And he said, are you out of your mind? I just loved it, but I persisted. And of course,
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I was very lucky in Louisville. Before I left Louisville, I had become the conductor of the
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Louisville Ballet and the assistant conductor of the Kentucky Opera and the conductor of a choral
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group there, as well as a theater that did Broadway shows. So I, you know, I was getting a lot of
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conducting experience, and it was a lot to give up to move to New York City to help my wife's career.
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And she had a lot to give up too. She was already on the voice faculty at the university by that
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time. And, you know, it was hard to pull up roots again. But we struck out for New York, and it all
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paid off because Eve Queller asked me at one point to be her assistant conductor. This allowed me to
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sometimes prepare the chorus for the Carnegie performances, and it also allowed me to work on
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the parts for the orchestra. She needed help in making sure the parts, you talk about how the
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orchestra at my concerts are right on the button, you have to mark the parts for an opera incredibly
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carefully, because there are often cuts. This entire section of music is left out. So you have
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to mark them so that the musicians are in no way tempted to play the music. And her rule was if they
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can't see it, they can't play it. So whereas the usual method was to make a vertical mark, and then
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make a slanting horizontal mark to the music that you want them to go to, and put another vertical
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mark at the beginning of that measure, she would have me cut up paper, scrap paper, and paste it
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over, scotch tape it over the part she didn't want them to see. So they never played the wrong music
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in rehearsal or in concerts, because we made sure the parts were absolutely prepared for that
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performance. And in any event, she liked me. And now that my marriage had ended, I remember there
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was an occasion when I told the personnel manager of the orchestra that I was dreading the next week.
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And he said, why, George? And I said, well, I'm going with my first wife to tell her Southern
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Baptist parents that we have decided to divorce. And he says, boy, that sounds bad. Now, as it
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turns out, Marcia, my present wife, was a rehearsal pianist for the Opera Orchestra of New York.
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She'd been playing in piano rehearsals with Marilyn Horn and Montserrat Caballé and
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Nikolai Gettner and whomever, you know. So she overheard this conversation. Now, I knew Marcia.
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I thought she was very cute. And she was listening to this conversation. Now, I had never anything
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to do with Marcia except professionally at the Opera Orchestra. But she seemed like a nice person.
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But she came up, she said, you know, George, I had this same conversation with my parents
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a couple of weeks ago. My husband and I are divorcing. I said, oh, she said, when you get
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back from Louisville, why don't we go out for dinner and trade war stories? She asked me out
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on our first date. That was March 11, 1979. Wow, you remember exact date. Oh, I do. At a certain
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point, I was told about an opportunity at the League of American Orchestras to study with an
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Austrian conductor named Richard Johannes Lert. Now, Dr. Lert had played in the Berlin Philharmonic
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under Artur Nikish, who at the turn of the 19th century was deemed to be the greatest conductor
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in the world at that point. And Dr. Lert not only played under him in the Berlin Philharmonic, but
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also became a conducting student of his. Dr. Lert's parents had been friends of Johannes Brahms.
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And when Dr. Lert was a little boy, Brahms had bounced him up and down on his knee when his
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parents would visit sometimes. So this man, and Dr. Lert had also studied conducting with Richard
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Strauss. So his credentials were unbelievable. And because his wife had a career that he felt was not
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advancing in Europe, he made the decision because she was a Hollywood film script writer to move,
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I mean, she was a film script writer, to move to Hollywood, California, so that she could have a
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bigger career as a script writer. So he became the conductor of the Pasadena Symphony and stayed there
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for many, many decades. And at a certain point, his reputation as a conductor and guru and teacher
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began to spread. And so the League of American Orchestra said, Richard Lert, Richard Johannes
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Lert, his parents had named him for Brahms, his middle name, Richard, would you teach 10 American
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conducting students each summer with an orchestra, how to conduct? And he said, I will. So this program
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started, it went on for many, many years. And I heard about it. And I had to ask for a recommendation.
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So I asked Eve Queller to write a recommendation. And then I asked Lucas Foss, who at that time was
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the music director of the Brooklyn Philharmonic, which I also played in. He also wrote a recommendation
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for me. And so they invited me to audition for a fellowship to study with this man. I did the
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audition. The audition was with the New Jersey Symphony on this East Coast. The people who
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auditioned were in the East Coast. And I was selected as one of the 10 people to go study with
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this man, who held forth in Virginia. They had this ancient resort that it was built during the
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Civil War era. Big hotel, wooden hotel, little wooden cabins. And that's where they had this.
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And they would play in the ballroom of this hotel. It's where the orchestra would assemble
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and Dr. Lert would work with his students. So anyway, that was another total seminal moment
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in my life. He was the greatest conducting teacher I ever had. And he certainly was one of the
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greatest conductors I ever saw conduct. He, with his eyes and little gestures of his hand, could
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elicit the most unbelievable responses from an orchestra. It was quite something to behold.
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So anyway, after that, a year later, the music director of the New Jersey Symphony, who had
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watched me in the competition to get this fellowship, conduct his orchestra. He remembered me.
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And when he needed an assistant conductor, out of the blue, called me in my apartment in Manhattan
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said, George, he was Polish, George, I might have some work for you. Come have lunch in Newark.
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So I go over to Newark and I almost dropped my spoon in my soup. When he outed with, I'd like you
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to be my assistant conductor. I thought you've seen me conduct for like 10 minutes in this audition.
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Anyway, I guess he liked what he saw. So that was when I got my first real big with a larger
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ensemble conducting job. And things have sort of progressed from there. It's been a wild ride. And
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I wanted for the worst way just to be a symphony orchestra conductor at that point. I mean, my
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first goal had been get a job in a symphony orchestra like my teacher in the Philadelphia
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Orchestra play in the symphony orchestra. I did that, then get some conducting work, which I did,
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and it seemed like that was the main driver. But somewhere on the way to the forum, as they say,
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in that play, I realized that the best thing I could do with my time, however much time I have left,
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is to try to help people be very moved by this music. What could I do to do this? And that's
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really what started us on this road that we're on right now with the Discovery Orchestra. I just felt
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like I had to reach as many people as I could with what I call the good news of classical music.
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It's a life force that once you become entangled with it, it changes your life forever. I knew from
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age four and a half, remember? But where was the turning point where you wanted to be the conductor?
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Then in the end, you wanted to do this work. Yeah, right. Well, we had started the Philharmonic
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Orchestra of New Jersey. That began when at a certain point, I realized I wanted to have my own
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professional orchestra, and that's a very difficult thing to achieve. You can audition for those few
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jobs that come up. You can submit your resume and go meet the board members and what have you.
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But without an agent, it is very difficult to get a really decent conducting job in this country.
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So I thought, I know the freelance players. I've been one of them. I know these people.
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I'm going to start an orchestra in central New Jersey where there is no orchestra and will play
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symphonic concerts for the audiences out there. So that was the rationale behind starting the
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Philharmonic Orchestra of New Jersey. Now, I would tell any conductor who thinks this idea,
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don't do it. You're nuts. I mean, it was anguishing to create the Philharmonic Orchestra
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of New Jersey, but we did. I mean, there were rough patches, times when I thought we were going
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to totally run out of money, but didn't. And we got it going so that we were a respected concert
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series to go to at that point. And as I said, playing at Richardson Auditorium and also in
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Princeton and also at the Art Center in Newark. And we were going all guns blazing. I mean,
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the orchestra had a good reputation. We got wonderful reviews. Although I said,
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that's not important to me as much as hyping the concerts before they happen so that an audience
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wants to attend them. But it was all from starting that music listening class in response to people
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asking us, what can I do to learn about classical music? And then it was sort of like, all that work
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with Saul Feinberg came blasting into my brain. And it was like, we have to do more of this. And
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the thing just snowballed until, you know, the board said, this is the most important thing we do.
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This is what other orchestras are not doing. We need to do this.
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Wow. So since the start, the whole entire, let's say concert series at the time, concerts were
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all like you are holding the microphone and say,
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All Discovery concerts. Yep. Everything we would do was a Discovery concert.
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You know, you also have the, as a skill set as a presenter, TV host, where does that come from?
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St. Peter's Choir School. One of the courses that every child, every one of the 45 students who were
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there at any given time had to take was a course in public speaking, taught by the choir master,
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who was also the headmaster of the school. He was a very fine public speaker and he made the kids,
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first of all, there was a recitation contest every year. Sometime in the spring, you would be
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required to either recite prose or poetry from memory in front of your parents and your
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grandparents and all the other kids in the school. Prizes would be awarded for what they thought were
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the best recitations. And in the weekly classes, you had to extemporaneously speak on a given
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00:37:34,400
subject. Dr. Gilbert would give you a subject to speak on, and then he would have you go out of the
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00:37:41,360
room, and while you were out of the room, he would point to various kids to do distracting things
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00:37:46,320
while you were talking. In other words, he would tell this kid to drop his pencil at a certain point
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00:37:46,320 -->
00:37:52,960
on cue, and this person to rustle a piece of paper or whatever, just to try to get you jolted while
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00:37:52,960 -->
00:37:58,880
you were doing your extemporaneous speech. I never had training like that before or after in my life.
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00:37:58,880 -->
00:38:05,440
It was incredible. Now, because I felt so comfortable talking to people, when I got to high school,
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00:38:10,560
I joined the debate team, which also put me in front of other people. But anyway,
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00:38:10,560 -->
00:38:17,680
so it was the choir school. The choir school gave all of the students who went there an amazing
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00:38:24,000
education, not just musically, which it was amazing musically, but public speaking. How about Latin,
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00:38:29,680
you know, when you're in seventh grade, you know, you don't do that normally. The kids who went there,
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00:38:34,720
many of them were middle class or lower middle class, one scholarship. There were a few kids
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00:38:34,720 -->
00:38:40,080
from the upper classes, you know, from wealthy families, but most of us were not. And so he had
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00:38:40,080 -->
00:38:48,080
his hands full, you know, turning us into polished little kids who could function well in polite society.
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00:38:55,840
But I guess you were prepared to be who you are today. I think so. It made a difference. And it's
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00:38:55,840 -->
00:39:01,200
interesting because many of the choir school graduates also became professional public speakers
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00:39:07,520
in that many of the choir school graduates became Episcopal priests. So they had to speak publicly
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00:39:14,160
every Sunday and also had to be speaking in other situations as the rector of some Episcopal church.
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00:39:14,160 -->
00:39:19,120
It affected many, many people, lawyers, there were a bunch of lawyers that came out of that school.
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00:39:19,120 -->
00:39:27,280
I mean, life is long and then also beautiful, but also challenges and then so many unexpected
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00:39:27,280 -->
00:39:33,200
twists and turns. Yeah, I mean, you know, and the reason that my mother sent us to the choir school,
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00:39:33,200 -->
00:39:40,160
my mother's mother and her father, my grandparents had a job as the servants of a wealthy family
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00:39:40,160 -->
00:39:45,520
on the main line of Philadelphia. I don't know if you're familiar with Ugimi with the main line.
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00:39:45,520 -->
00:39:51,120
There's this string of communities on the main line of the railroad. That's where the term comes
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00:39:51,120 -->
00:39:57,280
from. And these are people who are incredibly wealthy, wealthy. They're the tycoons of industry
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00:39:57,280 -->
00:40:04,400
and the CEOs of big corporations in Philadelphia. And they live incredibly extravagant lives
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00:40:04,400 -->
00:40:10,320
in this area called the main line. One of the towns is called Ballachinwyd. It's a Welsh name,
390
00:40:10,320 -->
00:40:15,280
Ballachinwyd, Pennsylvania. And they're all suburbs of Philadelphia. And these people are
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00:40:20,240
on the boards of things like the Philadelphia Orchestra and the Lyric Opera and the Philadelphia
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00:40:20,240 -->
00:40:25,840
Pennsylvania Ballet, et cetera. They, you know, they just, they're big people. My grandparents
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00:40:30,800
were the, my grandfather was the gardener and my grandmother was the maid for this family.
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00:40:30,800 -->
00:40:37,600
The daughter of this family was married to the priest and rector of St. Peter's Church,
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00:40:43,680
St. Peter's Episcopal Church. And they said to my grandmother, your grandsons must go to St. Peter's
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00:40:48,080
Choir School, which she had never heard of in her life. That's how they found out about it.
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00:40:48,080 -->
00:40:53,120
All these little twists and turns, it's, you know, you just can't.
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00:40:53,120 -->
00:40:55,760
I have to say you're meant to be who you are.
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00:40:55,760 -->
00:40:57,200
And I feel that way.
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00:40:57,200 -->
00:41:02,960
Yeah. Maybe this is not something that you dreamt of as a child or as a young person.
401
00:41:02,960 -->
00:41:09,920
Well, my mother did not want me to become a musician. She felt that it was a very precarious
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00:41:10,720 -->
00:41:16,320
life in which you were apt to have many disappointments. She definitely was disappointed
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00:41:16,320 -->
00:41:21,120
that she did not have a career as a performer. You know, she did a lot of accompanying. She also
404
00:41:21,120 -->
00:41:27,360
played the organ for a church, but she was disappointed that she did not have a solo career
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00:41:27,360 -->
00:41:32,400
as a pianist. She certainly played incredibly well, and I can still hear her playing in my mind's
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00:41:32,400 -->
00:41:39,040
ear. But sadly, when I was a senior in high school, she contracted cancer and she died.
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00:41:39,040 -->
00:41:47,040
And on her deathbed, we had these conversations in which I said, Mom, I know that Nana, my
408
00:41:47,040 -->
00:41:51,360
grandmother, my grandmother wanted both my brother and me to become Episcopal clergymen.
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00:41:51,360 -->
00:41:57,520
That was her dream for us. And I, my brother actually went through with this and became one,
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00:41:57,520 -->
00:42:01,760
although he left the church at a certain point, but he actually did what Nana hoped he would.
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00:42:01,760 -->
00:42:06,880
And I was sort of on target to do it. But I said to my mother, I want to go to music school.
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00:42:06,880 -->
00:42:12,000
I just, I want to be a musician. And she said, no, it's terrible life. Don't do it. Finally,
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00:42:12,000 -->
00:42:17,120
after enough of these conversations, she said, okay, I give you my permission to go to music
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00:42:17,120 -->
00:42:22,480
school, but you must promise me you will never marry another musician because you will both be
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00:42:22,480 -->
00:42:29,360
poor together. Can you imagine your dying mother saying such a thing to you? And of course,
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00:42:29,360 -->
00:42:38,960
I've done it twice. You gave me two musicians, but you know, what can I tell you? It's, I'm
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00:42:38,960 -->
00:42:44,000
I'm certainly glad I went to music school. It was definitely felt like where I wanted to be.
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00:42:44,000 -->
00:42:53,200
And I really can sense your passion and love for music through everything you do.
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00:42:53,200 -->
00:42:58,080
I would hope that comes through because it's definitely felt on my end.
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00:42:58,080 -->
00:43:04,480
It's contagious. That's why I was like in tears and watching that video and really feeling love
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00:43:04,480 -->
00:43:09,360
with music all over again. That's a really fantastic sensation, right? Because I remember
422
00:43:09,360 -->
00:43:16,400
the first time when I heard the Beethoven fifth symphony in the music school and then fell in love
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00:43:16,400 -->
00:43:25,120
with, you know, right. And how scary that triplet sounded, you know, yes, yes, it sounds really
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00:43:25,920 -->
00:43:31,200
foreboding. I know. I mean, people have said all sorts of silly things about it's Beethoven
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00:43:31,200 -->
00:43:37,360
knocking on some doors, something, you know, no, it's it's a statement about Beethoven's feeling
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00:43:37,360 -->
00:43:47,440
life, his internal life of feeling. And he was one angry dude. And I understand. I get it. I mean,
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00:43:47,440 -->
00:43:54,320
what I mean here was a brilliant pianist, you know, capable of being out there on stage with
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00:43:54,320 -->
00:44:01,840
the best of them and now to lose the ability to hear sound in real time, you know, ouch.
429
00:44:01,840 -->
00:44:08,320
Yeah. Such an eye. I must be such an isolating feeling to not a lot of people would understand
430
00:44:08,320 -->
00:44:17,280
that. Yes, exactly. Cut off from friends circles and what have you. It just because of his suffering.
431
00:44:17,280 -->
00:44:25,840
He is one of my favorite composers because he was so willing to bear his emotions to us and
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00:44:25,840 -->
00:44:32,560
we all suffer from time to time. Yeah. Yeah. But that's why this work is important. That's why
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00:44:32,560 -->
00:44:39,200
music is important. That's why classical music is important. So what is your thought on keeping
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00:44:39,200 -->
00:44:43,920
classical music relevant in this fast paced, crazy world?
435
00:44:43,920 -->
00:44:52,960
In this fast paced, crazy world? To me, the only way is to teach as many people as possible
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00:44:52,960 -->
00:44:59,280
to listen. In other words, I can't tell them stories. I can't show them movies about the
437
00:44:59,280 -->
00:45:04,480
life of a composer. I can't, you know, I can't go down the street with a bullhorn like some
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00:45:04,480 -->
00:45:09,520
campaign for office and say, come to the concerts. You know, you're going to really, I mean,
439
00:45:09,520 -->
00:45:16,160
that's not practical. Somehow. I often say that if I were the king of the United States,
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00:45:16,160 -->
00:45:20,800
which I am not and never will be, we will never have a king if I have anything to do with it.
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00:45:22,960 -->
00:45:29,520
But I would decree that every child would study the art of listening to music in school
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00:45:29,520 -->
00:45:34,880
so that like the people who grew up in Hungary, having been raised on the Kodály method,
443
00:45:34,880 -->
00:45:41,200
I mean, when I conducted in Budapest, the one time I conducted there, conducting Carmina Burana,
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00:45:41,200 -->
00:45:48,640
I will never forget the sensation of the audience because I knew that they were all trained to read
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00:45:48,640 -->
00:45:55,680
music at site and were very musically literate. I've never felt an audience so clinging to every
446
00:45:55,680 -->
00:46:00,720
sound that we made that night. And so it's not that it can't be done, but of course, that was a
447
00:46:00,720 -->
00:46:06,000
socialist country with a dictatorship. And it was just decreed that everybody would study the Kodály
448
00:46:06,000 -->
00:46:09,840
method in school. You know, so I don't know if it's, I don't know. It's still the case at this
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00:46:09,840 -->
00:46:16,080
moment under Urbán. I have no idea. But it was definitely the case at that point. And that's what
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00:46:16,080 -->
00:46:20,320
I would do to try to make it happen. Now we can't do that, right? That's not going to happen in the
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00:46:20,320 -->
00:46:25,760
United States. So the question is, what is the method by which we can teach the most people how
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00:46:25,760 -->
00:46:32,160
to listen? And I'm convinced it's electronically. In other words, if we can somehow get someone to
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00:46:32,160 -->
00:46:37,600
click for just a minute, click onto something that catches their fancy or their attention.
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00:46:37,600 -->
00:46:43,600
I mean, obviously I'm always telling people you will never have an experience like this. If you
455
00:46:43,600 -->
00:46:49,280
have this experience, you will become addicted to it. Although it's not a drug, it's completely
456
00:46:49,280 -->
00:46:54,480
addicting. You know, why is this so important? Why the classical music is so important to us?
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00:46:54,480 -->
00:47:00,800
Because I think it changes our lives in ways that we cannot even imagine. First of all,
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00:47:00,800 -->
00:47:08,800
because we learn to listen to music and feel our own feelings very strongly, we also begin
459
00:47:08,800 -->
00:47:14,160
to feel the feelings of the composers, these other people. I mean, it's an amazing thing that someone
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00:47:14,160 -->
00:47:20,720
has been dead for more than 100 years can, through the goodwill of a bunch of musicians who are
461
00:47:20,720 -->
00:47:26,640
reproducing the score that they created. It's like they're sitting in a room with this pouring out
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00:47:26,640 -->
00:47:33,200
their deepest feelings about everything. So in terms of developing a sense of empathy in life,
463
00:47:33,200 -->
00:47:39,280
I think that's a very important reason to become sensitized to art, including painting and sculpture
464
00:47:39,280 -->
00:47:45,920
and poetry, all of the arts. But music, I've always felt, is the most direct route into our hearts.
465
00:47:45,920 -->
00:47:50,880
It's like an electrical force. You can't even see it. You can't touch it. As Saul Feinberg always
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00:47:50,880 -->
00:47:55,440
said, it's invisible. And it's not like a painting that you can hang at the Philadelphia Art Museum,
467
00:47:55,440 -->
00:48:00,880
and it will always be there. You can go look at it whenever you want. This thing occurs in time,
468
00:48:00,880 -->
00:48:07,760
and then it's gone. So if you're not there with it every second, you're going to miss something
469
00:48:07,760 -->
00:48:14,080
important. I mean, when Brahms changes that one chord, the last time that melody comes back,
470
00:48:14,080 -->
00:48:20,320
if you're there from the beginning, it will seem shattering, just earth-shatteringly, emotionally
471
00:48:21,040 -->
00:48:27,440
moving to hear that one chord change. Same thing with a Bach chorale, you know. But I think if you
472
00:48:27,440 -->
00:48:34,320
were severely emotionally disturbed in some way, if you were filled with so much either self-hatred
473
00:48:34,320 -->
00:48:41,200
or I don't know what, sadly, you might not receive those benefits from classical music. But I think
474
00:48:41,200 -->
00:48:48,560
most people, certainly more than the less than 5% of the American population that regularly listens
475
00:48:48,560 -->
00:48:53,120
to classical music, and I mean listen, not hear, not have it on in the office while they're working
476
00:48:53,120 -->
00:48:57,680
in the office or have it all while they're cooking in the kitchen. No, actually, you know, something
477
00:48:57,680 -->
00:49:04,480
less than 5% of the US population sits down and listens or stands and listens, whatever they do,
478
00:49:04,480 -->
00:49:09,840
but gives it their undivided attention. That percentage needs to grow somehow.
479
00:49:09,840 -->
00:49:20,000
That's right, yes. Maestro, I can be with you forever talking about wonderful...
480
00:49:20,000 -->
00:49:27,520
Well, I won't tell Marsha you said that, but it's really nice to be with you.
481
00:49:27,520 -->
00:49:34,560
So I know we have to really end our conversation soon. So before we go, I just want to say to my
482
00:49:34,560 -->
00:49:42,800
audience that the Discovery Orchestra is obviously available on YouTube channel and also you have a
483
00:49:42,800 -->
00:49:50,240
podcast show notes from under the piano. And then also you have... So for Discovery Orchestra,
484
00:49:50,240 -->
00:49:57,920
you can go to discoveryorchestra.org and then your app is Aha Classical App. So you can find them on
485
00:49:57,920 -->
00:50:05,440
any app store, correct? And on PBS Passport, our television shows are there. If you're a member
486
00:50:05,440 -->
00:50:11,680
of your local public television station, you get free access to PBS Passport. You can watch any shows,
487
00:50:11,680 -->
00:50:18,960
including ours, on that particular site online. And trying to think if there's any other venue.
488
00:50:18,960 -->
00:50:24,480
Well, again, you can tune in to the radio online on second and fourth Saturdays of the month,
489
00:50:24,480 -->
00:50:32,320
730 www.fm.org. So before I let you go, we have one more thing to do, which is the rapid fire
490
00:50:32,320 -->
00:50:39,840
questions where I get to ask fun questions. So no explanation is needed. So let's go.
491
00:50:39,840 -->
00:50:47,120
All right. All righty. What is your comfort food? Comfort food is chocolate. How do you like your
492
00:50:47,120 -->
00:50:55,840
coffee? With cream and artificial sweetener. Cats or dogs? I love both, but cats have been
493
00:50:55,840 -->
00:51:01,120
my pet of choice through most of my life. I've had both. Love dogs, but cats are it.
494
00:51:01,120 -->
00:51:09,600
Summer or winter? Neither. Fall is my favorite season. Okay, yes. What skill have you always
495
00:51:09,600 -->
00:51:16,880
wanted to learn, but haven't had the chance to? I would say to play the electric bass or the
496
00:51:16,880 -->
00:51:25,120
acoustic bass in a jazz ensemble and improvising. Improvising, yes. What is your word of words to
497
00:51:25,120 -->
00:51:31,920
live by? Love one another. Beautiful. What is the most important quality you look for in other
498
00:51:31,920 -->
00:51:39,440
people? A genuineness. Someone who does not have pretense or some facade that you feel like you're
499
00:51:39,440 -->
00:51:45,200
getting right to them when you meet them. Name three people who inspire you, living or dead.
500
00:51:45,200 -->
00:51:50,880
Well, obviously we're going to say Saul Feinberg. We're going to say Richard Laird,
501
00:51:50,880 -->
00:51:57,840
Richard Johannes Laird, and Marcia, my wife. Beautiful. Name one piece in your current
502
00:51:57,840 -->
00:52:03,520
playlist. In my current playlist, Bach, Brandenburg, concerto number four.
503
00:52:04,080 -->
00:52:10,880
What do you believe is the key to a fulfilling life? Learning to appreciate yourself fully
504
00:52:10,880 -->
00:52:16,480
and other people. Last question. Fill in the blank. Music is blank.
505
00:52:18,960 -->
00:52:26,080
Music is the world to me. Ding ding ding. Thank you so much, Maestro. It's been a wonderful
506
00:52:26,080 -->
00:52:31,840
conversation and this concludes this episode of The Pianopoe. Thank you, Mr. Moll, for joining
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00:52:31,840 -->
00:52:37,120
my show today and sharing your stories, insights, expertise. You can learn more about Maestro Moll
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00:52:37,120 -->
00:52:43,120
and his incredible work at the Discovery Orchestra. Please visit their website at
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00:52:43,120 -->
00:52:49,600
discoveryorchestra.org and don't forget to check out the interactive music appreciation app,
510
00:52:49,600 -->
00:52:55,200
Aha Classical, at ahaclassical.com. All the links are listed in the show notes and thank you to my
511
00:52:55,200 -->
00:53:00,240
wonderful audience fans for tuning in. If you enjoyed today's episode, please rate and review
512
00:53:00,240 -->
00:53:07,040
it on your favorite podcasting platform. Remember to hit the thumbs up and subscribe to my
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00:53:07,040 -->
00:53:12,640
YouTube channel if you are watching this episode. Follow The Pianopoe on social media to get the
514
00:53:12,640 -->
00:53:18,000
latest piano news via Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn. I will see you for the next episode
515
00:53:18,000 -->
00:53:23,600
of The Pianopoe. Thank you, Maestro, once again. Yukimi, thank you so much for inviting me to be
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00:53:23,600 -->
00:53:38,480
your guest. Thank you.
