Ian's Story: Part III - The Temple and the Beginning of the Mission

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Thank you.
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Welcome to another episode of Inside Out.
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My name is Jim Bennett, and we've been going through Ian Wilkes' conversion story.
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And when we last left Ian, he had just gone through the temple.
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And we did not tell you what his reaction was, but we will tell you right now.
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Went through the temple.
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That was an experience
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as well for me that was quite...
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It wasn't necessarily a positive experience.
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No, it was a negative experience.
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So before you go on a mission, you go through the temple to do your endowment, and you go through the washings and anointings, right?
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So look where I came from, my background.
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This is completely new to me.
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And by the way, they send you on these...
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Before you go on a mission, you attend these temple preparation classes.
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That don't prepare you for anything.
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They don't.
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And I taught those.
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And I've actually contributed as a veil worker and a bishop, member of the state presidency that I've been, et cetera, over the years, and had a conversation with the Oaks on this, which we might get into later, but contributed to how effective those temple preparation classes are.
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And so I attended them as a young man and didn't know if they prepared me or not.
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I mean, what do I know, right?
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So for me, it was, yeah, it sounds great.
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What about this, et cetera.
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But they never told me about the Washington anointings, which frightened me to death, by the way.
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And they never prepared me for the pre-1990 temple endowment.
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Right.
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With penalties.
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With penalties that were up.
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So I went to the temple.
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This is just two months before my mission.
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And I had a notice in the company down south, in Sheffield, who were absolutely furious with me, by the way, that I'd been with it for two years and invested all this time and money.
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We were rocking it on the sales, et cetera, the industrial sales side, et cetera, doing really, really well.
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And there I was just submitting my resignation on something they thought was absolutely weird.
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They thought I was the most strangest person bizarre individual.
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What are you doing for two years of your life?
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They were so mad, they fired me on the spot.
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Really?
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Yeah, I was fired on the spot.
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And I had just emptied my office, took the keys back.
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They were so furious that I'd resigned and also resigned for something they thought was absolutely weird.
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Going on this two-year mission.
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They knew about the church and then I went to church, but they didn't know the details.
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I didn't share too much details about the church because they weren't interested.
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And I'd mentioned that at some point I'd like to go on a mission.
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And they said, oh, what's that?
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And they may have forgotten.
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But when it actually happened, they took it pretty bad.
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I had to catch a bus.
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I was thrown out again, Jim.
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I'd been fired from my home and then fired from my office.
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And there I was walking with a plastic bag, again, no dog this time, but walking with a plastic bag to the bus stop.
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near where I used to work and catch a bus back to where I lived.
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Fired on the spot in a very, very blunt fashion.
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And I look back and I can understand now why they did what they did.
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And by the way, when I came back up the mission, I had the audacity and the cheek to call back my old boss who was angry with me to ask for my old job.
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He told me to, I won't swear, but to F all.
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And I said, well, okay, fine, actually, but I'm interested in getting back into the industry.
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He'd been out for two years.
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What can you do?
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You know nothing.
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You've lost the knowledge, et cetera, et cetera.
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I'm a pretty good learner.
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It's if you get in, you won't be able to compete.
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You've lost all the content.
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Anyway, long story short, I ignored that advice.
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Just like Miss Priest years ago at school, I ignored the advice.
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I'm very good at ignoring bad advice when I recognize it.
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So I ignored his advice, set up a company, and bought him.
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You have a son named Archie.
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When you first mentioned Archie, I thought he had named it after this guy because he was a mentor.
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He was.
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He was.
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He became a mentor, and I ended up buying his company.
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We ended up having a really good relationship later, you know, at the business night.
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After he told me to F off, and we did some joint deals together, et cetera, some joint ventures and success, et cetera.
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We did a few of those.
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Still competitors.
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but had a pretty grown up, you know, business relationship.
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And my aunt, she is not named after him, but I became aware of the name actually from my old boss who told me to F off.
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Interesting.
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Yeah.
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So anyway, so I set up a company and I bought a few of the companies and grew that and that became, you know, became quite successful.
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And so I went to the temple and I thought the temple preparation class prepared me.
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It didn't.
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I went to the, this is 86, 80, 86.
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So pre-1990.
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And I went to what they call Washington Anointings.
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And this old man, I was, I was, I was detailed.
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You want to
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go into it?
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Well, I feel like, There are certain things in the temple that you promised not to discuss.
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Okay.
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So I would rather not discuss those.
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Okay.
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But I think everything else, I think it's kind of ridiculous how reticent we are to talk about the temple.
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And in fact, the church is coming around on that.
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The church has released videos where they show you pictures of temple clothing, where they show you pictures of garments, where they describe...
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in some detail what the endowment ceremony is.
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And all of those things were completely taboo when I went through the temple.
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I went through not too long after you, and I think we had a similar experience.
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But I remember going through the washings and anointings, and no one had told me about them.
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And I remember saying to my father, all right, so is this what I put on my garments?
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No.
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Oh, is this what I put on my temple clothes?
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No.
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Oh, well, what do I wear?
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And he hands me the shield, which is the sort, as you know, is this big, huge white poncho, but you're completely naked underneath it.
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And it's open on the sides.
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So you're wandering around completely naked and feeling very exposed.
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I mean, that was my experience.
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And I assume it was somewhat similar to yours.
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Very similar.
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So very similar.
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So I, you know, This was Washington 19th, which happens before the endowment.
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I'm wearing this, what did you call it,
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poncho?
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Yeah, they called it a shield.
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My father pointed out that in the days of Brigham Young, they didn't bother with the shield.
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They used to just do them completely naked.
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It wasn't until 2005 that they allowed you to stay clothed.
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Wow, right.
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Okay.
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So there I was in this sheet with holding.
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It's like a white sheet, completely naked.
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This old man starts to come into this area, this cubicle-type place in the temple, in London, the London temple, and introduced himself until he has the preaching authority to perform motions and anointings and starts to anoint me.
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and starts to touch certain parts of my body near my loins, that's the word they use, which make me extremely uncomfortable.
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And I grab his hand, this old man's hand.
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This old man must have been in his 80s.
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And I remember he had really bad breath.
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You know when you look back at events in your life, you're my...
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see something or hear something or smell something smells yeah you know with memory he had bad breath
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smells are very evocative
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yeah very evocative yeah and he had bad breath and he was um he and i grabbed his hand and i was stronger than him and i moved his hand away from my loins and uh i i said i'm uncomfortable and he said well it's a necessary part of the uh the process and i said well look just you know just uh you know just keep it um uh it's quick and and uh you know, away from...
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The whole thing was a shock.
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I had no idea what was going on.
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The temple prep class didn't even reference this whatsoever.
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You have to...
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Oh, you understand.
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You've been through this.
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You've got this old guy.
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I'm in the sheet, naked underneath.
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This guy is touching parts, areas, nothing, not too private, but certain parts of your body that are quite private, complete stranger, in a place you've never been before, speaking words that you've never heard before, pronouncing things and pronouncing that.
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The whole thing was bizarre, unusual, just surreal.
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It was like a dream or a nightmare.
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And so that was a pretty negative experience for me.
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I felt uncomfortable.
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I felt quite vulnerable.
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And there's a reason for that.
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And so I got through that.
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And then we went into the endowments.
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And Back then, the temple has been revamped since
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86.
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There have been significant revamps.
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So in 90, they got rid of the penalties and a few other things that are sort of Masonic holdovers.
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The five points of fellowship disappeared.
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But the penalties were really the biggest change.
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But more recently, this was just, I think, three years ago, just before COVID, or maybe a year before COVID, they made some more changes that involve putting men and women on more of an equal footing, giving Eve more to say in the ceremony, although I think that's just kind of window dressing to some degree.
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But those, I think, at least in my experience, are the two most They also streamline it.
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You only change clothes once in the new version.
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I don't know if you've been through since they've done the new one.
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No,
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no.
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I'm not just talking about the change in the endowment practice.
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I was also talking about the physical changes in the London Temple.
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They had a balcony, a big balcony all the way around everywhere.
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So you had all these hundreds of people on the balcony and then like a stage, hundreds of people here.
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And everybody I could see, I knew, in the stake and ward, and they always go through the endowment.
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But just going back to your last two points there, because I was talking about the physical revamping of the London Temple.
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Oh, okay.
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I've never been to the London Temple.
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Yeah, because that back then, before it was revamped or refurbished, the whole layout, added to the trauma for me.
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It was a very cultish experience in many ways as I look back.
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A very uncomfortable experience going through the, going back to your point there, the old or the pre-1990 endowment where you had all the penalties and you had to simulate certain actions should you reveal certain things, certain things would happen to you.
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I think that's probably the best way we could describe that.
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That was, for me, absolutely frightening.
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But when I looked up and could see all these people at the balcony, many of whom I knew very well, the bishop, my friends there who were coming there for the first time for themselves, or me, etc., and the person next to me, I feel very comfortable, and they said to me, look, you know, if you doubt this just look up and would all these people that you know uh that you trust and know so well i remember this very clearly jim would they be doing something that wasn't right and i remember uh you know that's interesting rationale to you know behind that thought process and i remember thinking no they wouldn't they're very smart people they wouldn't do this if it was strange nevertheless it felt very very disturbing very comfortable uncomfortable to me um and so the physical layout of the temple um And the confinement, you know, for that endowment or that version of the endowment was very scary, very disturbing, very comfortably.
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And then the confinement, the small space confinement of the complete stranger who performed the Washington anointings was equally disturbing.
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So it was a very negative experience for me, physically, spiritually, you know, emotionally.
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And I felt quite...
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quite vulnerable, actually, which was a shock because everything up until that point, Jim, with the church, right from when the missions were teaching right through to that point had been positive.
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And that's an important point.
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So, you know, look at my history, right, with all of that terrible, awful experience that me and many others went through at that time.
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And others go through far worse, of course, than that.
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And then a seamless, almost endless, positive experience on every event, essentially, in the church.
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And then at this point, I'm having this very, very disturbing, uncomfortable, very negative experience where I feel my body, my emotions, my raw emotions are telling me that there's something not right about this.
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There's something that doesn't feel right about this.
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Yet I'm being told that, you know, give it time.
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You'll feel right.
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All these people who know you so well, they can't be wrong.
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But I felt very confused and very mixed up when I left the temple on that day to do my first endowment there.
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Came back on the bus.
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It was fairly quiet.
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People noticed that and came to talk to me.
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And the advice I got from the bishop said, Ian, you've got another two months before you go on a mission.
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Go back for a week.
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You're not working now.
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You got fired, right?
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Thank you.
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Reminding me.
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And so go back to the temple and go through for a week and go through everything.
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And that's what I did, Jim.
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I went back and I went to the accommodation and I went through early morning.
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And by the end of the week, I felt better, a lot better.
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But it was like I was forcing myself to accept it.
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As I look back on some of the experiences after I joined the church, and think about how I thought and felt and why I thought the way I did and felt the way I did.
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I remember at times now, if I'm honest with myself, making myself accept stuff.
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Because for me, different to many others, the alternative was going back, or so I thought, to that awful, awful experience.
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So anything, even if it was problematic or difficult, confusing or disturbing uh was not nothing like you know compared to what i was growing up with and so and there were there were things there the the members approach said look you don't know the absence right now keep going to the temple it will all be you'll feel better and although i felt a bit better after that week's session i never uh even years after being a veil worker um going to the temple, being involved in the temple.
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Not a sealer, but being a temple worker, et cetera, and training people on the veil.
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I still struggled with feelings that wouldn't leave me, wouldn't go away, wouldn't disappear.
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Never sat right with you.
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Never sat right.
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There was something not quite right about that.
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so i mean the video uh the video i found uh except palatable acceptable until uh satan came into it and that first version where he um conference the catholic priest if you remember that i
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think he's more of a prod i mean the guy no yeah he's a protestant isn't he yeah but but but Remember Iran, and they changed this in 1990.
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It used to be that Satan talked about buying up armies and navies and some priests, and now it's false priests who oppress.
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Right.
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It changed the language.
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But my parents actually described to me, the endowment used to be, I mean, when it was first created, it took all day.
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At one point, the priest or the preacher comes out and leads the congregation in a hymn.
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And my father remembered the hymn.
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It wasn't a Mormon hymn.
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It was a Protestant hymn.
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And then the priest launches into this big thing about, do you believe in a God who sits at the top of a topless throne, whose area is everywhere and his circumference is nowhere?
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And I mean, just this hardcore slam on the Christian world outside of the church is what it was intended to be, and that's now been entirely removed.
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But even the version you went through and that I went through that very first time was toned down from the original version.
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Yeah,
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I didn't know some of the information that you shared there with you.
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with your father's experience.
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But the version that you and I went through, I remember this Catholic or Protestant priest showing up.
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And I think my mum would have clapped her hands at that, but got very angry when he was, she would have been very upset after the priest was dismissed in the way that he was.
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My mum would
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be happy.
00:19:22.928 --> 00:19:24.789
A priest that demands that Satan pay him money.
00:19:24.829 --> 00:19:26.171
Absolutely.
00:19:26.451 --> 00:19:27.633
And it works for Satan.
00:19:27.692 --> 00:19:28.693
He's Satan's guy.
00:19:28.713 --> 00:19:31.777
It's really, I think, somewhat
00:19:31.817 --> 00:19:32.238
offensive.
00:19:32.673 --> 00:19:36.499
It is offensive, and there's money involved, et cetera.
00:19:36.759 --> 00:19:40.263
There's also a reference to the trilogy.
00:19:40.923 --> 00:19:41.806
The God of...
00:19:42.365 --> 00:19:42.886
Trinity?
00:19:42.926 --> 00:19:44.449
That's a trilogy.
00:19:44.469 --> 00:19:45.109
Trinity, yes.
00:19:45.911 --> 00:19:52.278
One God, three spirits, all plowing, all knowing, everywhere but nowhere.
00:19:52.679 --> 00:19:53.200
I remember that.
00:19:53.319 --> 00:19:58.507
And so the first part of the video was cool because I used to fancy Eve.
00:19:59.268 --> 00:20:01.150
She was...
00:20:01.794 --> 00:20:02.755
I wasn't the only one.
00:20:02.934 --> 00:20:03.957
Movie went through.
00:20:03.977 --> 00:20:07.902
Some of the Eves were better looking than other Eves.
00:20:08.162 --> 00:20:12.186
This one, and I wasn't alone in my interest in Eve.
00:20:13.228 --> 00:20:15.010
She looked pretty good.
00:20:15.451 --> 00:20:20.778
And then the video went kind of, not the direction I would have taken it.
00:20:20.817 --> 00:20:25.884
It went quite scary with Satan and the priest and all this other stuff that was going on.
00:20:25.903 --> 00:20:26.885
And it went very...
00:20:27.298 --> 00:20:30.564
cultish is the only way I can describe it.
00:20:30.703 --> 00:20:32.567
The handshakes,
00:20:34.651 --> 00:20:38.096
the clothing, the hats.
00:20:38.217 --> 00:20:43.226
No one's been able to explain to me the symbolism behind why we have to wear a hat that looks like a baker's hat.
00:20:44.268 --> 00:20:45.109
It just looks weird.
00:20:45.761 --> 00:20:46.041
I
00:20:46.061 --> 00:21:08.712
asked somebody, a mission president in the temple or a temple president at the time, years after, and he was saying that it was the dress or the tie was revealed by revelation, which is not in the Doctrine and Covenants now, that in the church archives, very specific information was revealed to the prophet, which is not in the Doctrine and Covenants now or not.
00:21:09.433 --> 00:21:16.417
By the way, I have heard from various reliable sources that there's quite a bit of other additional doctrine covered material, which has not been released.
00:21:17.239 --> 00:21:38.226
And that this revelation on the attire, the whole revelation that Joe Smith learned from the Freemasons at the time and developed it and changed things and the dress and the Freemasonry, which is very much in the neighborhood I was growing up in, by the way, and very much all over Scotland, as you are well aware, there's a lot of Freemasonry history across the UK.
00:21:38.625 --> 00:21:45.278
and elsewhere around the world and being somewhat familiar with that in my community.
00:21:45.619 --> 00:21:53.075
And by the way, the NUM miners, the miners, the strikers, they wear an orange sash.
00:21:54.538 --> 00:21:55.318
Oh, in the machine.
00:21:55.579 --> 00:21:55.799
Yeah.
00:21:56.181 --> 00:22:06.567
And if you look at the symbols on the sash, it's not got this wrong, a there is some relationship with Freemasonry and this- The Square and Compass?
00:22:07.048 --> 00:22:11.576
Square and Compass, but also this relationship with this Like a fraternity.
00:22:11.596 --> 00:22:13.198
It's like the miners' fraternity, right?
00:22:13.258 --> 00:22:13.519
Right.
00:22:13.659 --> 00:22:19.028
And they'd march with their staffs down the streets, you know, for the right to keep the mine open.
00:22:19.048 --> 00:22:24.036
They've got these orange sasses on or other types of sashes that they're wearing, etc.
00:22:24.056 --> 00:22:25.218
There's some symbolism there.
00:22:25.638 --> 00:22:31.147
So this Freemasonry, this symbolism, this fraternity goes back to the UK and beyond, way, way, way back.
00:22:31.607 --> 00:22:43.558
And when Joseph Smith came into contact with Freemasonry and versions of it, etc., from England, you know, Presbyterians from Protestant faith, et cetera, capitalism, et cetera, developed a version for the church.
00:22:43.618 --> 00:23:11.727
And this attire, this clothing that is worn in the temple is all received by revelation to joseph smith which is not in the main canon of the the the church material but but it does exist apparently i'm told in the church archives and very detailed very specific about the hat white shape the way it is the apron the all the clothing every um and even going back to an earlier version where other things were um were worn.
00:23:11.767 --> 00:23:14.109
Other symbols were on the sash.
00:23:14.230 --> 00:23:23.884
I don't know if you've heard anything along the same lines where other symbols appeared on the apron long before you and I went through the temple.
00:23:24.325 --> 00:23:26.709
So anyway, there I was going through the temple.
00:23:27.328 --> 00:23:28.510
What I was wearing was odd.
00:23:28.570 --> 00:23:30.294
The washings and ironings were just strange.
00:23:31.836 --> 00:23:35.721
You know, this threat of these penalties was just extraordinary.
00:23:36.354 --> 00:23:37.494
My mission papers were in.
00:23:37.555 --> 00:23:38.556
I was being called to Scotland.
00:23:38.596 --> 00:23:40.979
I came home, went back to the temple for a week, et cetera, et cetera.
00:23:41.479 --> 00:23:51.689
Went through for the whole week and came to some arrangement emotionally that it is what it is.
00:23:51.729 --> 00:23:53.530
I don't understand it.
00:23:53.691 --> 00:23:56.634
I don't feel comfortable about it, but it is what it is.
00:23:56.733 --> 00:24:01.819
And then the good news, as you know, with a mission, is that you get a break from going to the temple for two years.
00:24:01.880 --> 00:24:03.922
So for me, that was a...
00:24:04.385 --> 00:24:09.230
I don't know what the people felt about it, but for me, that was a relief that I didn't have the pressure to go to the temple.
00:24:09.671 --> 00:24:10.332
I was on a mission.
00:24:10.912 --> 00:24:14.496
And so, you know, after the MTC, I got floored up to Edinburgh.
00:24:14.516 --> 00:24:16.217
This was January 29, 1987.
00:24:16.497 --> 00:24:19.440
The two APs picked me up, picked us up.
00:24:19.901 --> 00:24:21.662
You know, eight, nine, ten of us picked us up.
00:24:22.083 --> 00:24:23.864
And so they drove us from the airport.
00:24:26.366 --> 00:24:31.050
I'd been to Edinburgh before, by the way, on business, so it wasn't a complete strange place to me.
00:24:31.432 --> 00:24:36.201
But for the Americans that were there and the I was the only Brit, I believe, to Scotland.
00:24:36.221 --> 00:24:39.067
Nine other American guys that were out with me.
00:24:39.107 --> 00:24:40.971
Ella Cheney was one.
00:24:41.011 --> 00:24:44.479
Elder Meacham was another one.
00:24:44.519 --> 00:24:48.286
I'm trying to remember the other guys that came out with me at the time.
00:24:48.326 --> 00:24:51.792
Elder Hiscock, you and I know very well, was another one.
00:24:51.813 --> 00:24:52.674
God bless his soul.
00:24:52.795 --> 00:24:53.857
He passed away.
00:24:54.369 --> 00:24:56.113
I love that man.
00:24:56.492 --> 00:24:58.615
We all love Chris Hiscock.
00:24:58.656 --> 00:24:59.518
He was an amazing guy.
00:24:59.557 --> 00:25:06.208
And so the APs picked us up, drove through Princess Street.
00:25:06.268 --> 00:25:07.329
They didn't have to.
00:25:07.390 --> 00:25:09.232
They went through Edinburgh deliberately.
00:25:09.252 --> 00:25:12.478
The cobbled streets of the Royal Mile.
00:25:12.961 --> 00:25:14.864
The missionaries were like, oh my God, this is extraordinary.
00:25:14.884 --> 00:25:16.105
They'd never been to Europe in their life, right?
00:25:16.144 --> 00:25:16.865
Going through Edinburgh.
00:25:17.727 --> 00:25:19.548
I could see the faces were like lit up.
00:25:19.568 --> 00:25:22.191
This is the most amazing experience for them.
00:25:22.872 --> 00:25:25.074
And we were driven to the mission home, the back one.
00:25:25.094 --> 00:25:26.394
I know those roads pretty well.
00:25:27.435 --> 00:25:31.680
You know, later in my life, I moved to Scotland, moved to Edinburgh, you know, where I was a bishop there.
00:25:32.441 --> 00:25:40.048
And so we went to the mission home and we were greeted by President Dunn.
00:25:40.509 --> 00:25:41.109
President Dunn.
00:25:41.890 --> 00:25:44.373
And he was George A.
00:25:44.413 --> 00:25:46.016
Dunn, the brother of Lawrence C.
00:25:46.036 --> 00:25:46.236
Dunn.
00:25:47.017 --> 00:25:48.659
And he was a...
00:25:49.160 --> 00:25:51.442
Immediately, as soon as he spoke, he boomed.
00:25:51.784 --> 00:25:53.747
He was like a sergeant major.
00:25:54.748 --> 00:25:55.249
He owned...
00:25:55.288 --> 00:25:56.671
He was from Tooele.
00:25:56.810 --> 00:25:57.251
Tooele?
00:25:57.352 --> 00:25:57.612
Tooele?
00:25:57.652 --> 00:25:57.912
Tooele?
00:25:58.032 --> 00:25:58.173
Yeah.
00:25:58.713 --> 00:26:00.576
And he owned a printing company.
00:26:01.436 --> 00:26:02.759
A very successful printing company.
00:26:03.579 --> 00:26:05.262
And he'd done that all of his life.
00:26:05.323 --> 00:26:07.526
And he'd come out on admission there with his wife.
00:26:07.605 --> 00:26:09.327
And he'd been out maybe...
00:26:10.561 --> 00:26:40.795
oh maybe two and a half years he only had six months left so you know his replacement happened in july 87 um so this is january uh winter uh it's cold and uh came into the mission home and and he brought our stuff in and put that in that front office there and um he came in and and uh was then asked to sit around the tables a big table there And we sat around the table and President Dunn came in and basically gave us an hour lecture on why we didn't have testimonies.
00:26:42.057 --> 00:26:50.828
And I'm thinking, you know, my background is very different to everyone else's here, I suspect it, right?
00:26:51.509 --> 00:26:55.415
And I thought I had a testimony, but apparently I didn't.
00:26:55.855 --> 00:26:59.701
And, you know, I would gain a testimony by the end of it.
00:26:59.882 --> 00:27:02.846
And so he kind of...
00:27:03.362 --> 00:27:14.132
spoke very loudly in a very military fashion, booming and everything, and kind of shouted, you're not going to test me there.
00:27:14.633 --> 00:27:20.858
And I spoke up and I said, President, I do believe I have a testimony.
00:27:20.959 --> 00:27:21.519
No, you don't.
00:27:21.778 --> 00:27:22.319
What's your name?
00:27:22.359 --> 00:27:22.980
Elder Wilkes.
00:27:23.601 --> 00:27:25.742
You don't have a testimony until you've been here for two years.
00:27:25.782 --> 00:27:27.163
Okay.
00:27:28.286 --> 00:27:31.048
But it was very confrontational.
00:27:33.218 --> 00:27:38.967
Very blunt, very sergeant major, and quite prickly, quite a prickly character.
00:27:39.067 --> 00:27:48.122
I only learned, by the way, Jim, a few weeks later, his son was instrumental in me joining the church.
00:27:48.863 --> 00:27:49.263
Oh, really?
00:27:49.284 --> 00:27:50.125
Yep.
00:27:50.305 --> 00:27:53.009
So his son was Paul Dunn, served in the Leeds Mission,
00:27:53.049 --> 00:27:54.152
which is where I joined the church.
00:27:54.652 --> 00:27:59.599
No, the relationship to Paul Dunn, the general authority, the disgraced general authority?
00:28:00.280 --> 00:28:00.501
No.
00:28:01.250 --> 00:28:01.770
Okay.
00:28:01.891 --> 00:28:02.811
No, no.
00:28:02.832 --> 00:28:02.951
This
00:28:03.011 --> 00:28:04.273
is Paul Dunne of the son of...
00:28:05.154 --> 00:28:05.734
Of Joban.
00:28:06.115 --> 00:28:06.516
Joban.
00:28:07.196 --> 00:28:08.038
I'm saying no.
00:28:08.097 --> 00:28:08.499
I don't know.
00:28:08.719 --> 00:28:09.019
I don't know.
00:28:09.779 --> 00:28:10.181
I don't know.
00:28:10.201 --> 00:28:10.381
Maybe.
00:28:10.401 --> 00:28:10.761
I don't know.
00:28:11.442 --> 00:28:15.487
And so Paul had interviewed me for my baptism.
00:28:16.848 --> 00:28:17.990
He'd also sat...
00:28:18.730 --> 00:28:20.993
This is, what, three years...
00:28:21.354 --> 00:28:22.955
I don't know, five years before, right?
00:28:23.096 --> 00:28:26.820
So four or five years before his dad, Joban.
00:28:27.541 --> 00:28:30.445
He'd sat in on the last discussion before my baptism.
00:28:30.945 --> 00:28:42.579
And he'd also interviewed me, seen his own leader in the mission at that time for my, you know, becoming baptized and was instrumental apparently in getting my mom's signature or being part of that thing.
00:28:43.101 --> 00:28:43.801
And I didn't know.
00:28:44.462 --> 00:28:51.672
Yeah, I didn't know until weeks into the mission that Joel, that Paul, that Joel was the father of Paul Dunn, right?
00:28:52.393 --> 00:28:53.354
And so that came out.
00:28:53.653 --> 00:28:56.017
And so he was...
00:28:57.026 --> 00:29:07.143
And that didn't make a difference, not that I expected it to in terms of how he spoke to me, but he spoke to us pretty rough, frankly, and all the missions there were fairly quiet.
00:29:07.644 --> 00:29:09.006
I think they felt the joy in the military.
00:29:09.867 --> 00:29:20.404
And I remember we had this picture, you know, as soon as you, within hours, your family were informed, or minutes, your family were informed that you'd arrived safely in the mission.
00:29:20.961 --> 00:29:25.488
And then the day after, you stayed overnight because of jet lag, and you have to get up early, very early.
00:29:25.508 --> 00:29:29.133
I had no jet lag, so I was okay, but the guys were struggling with that.
00:29:29.633 --> 00:29:34.058
And the next day, early in the morning, you had your photograph taken outside the mission home, as you are aware of.
00:29:34.619 --> 00:29:39.807
And I remember Elder Hiscock was just before me, and he had his hat on, and he was losing his hair.
00:29:39.846 --> 00:29:50.051
And I remember President Dunne grabbed his hat, and I felt really bad for Chris, grabbed his hat and just ripped it off and said, Don't know why you're wearing that.
00:29:50.112 --> 00:29:50.613
Get that off.
00:29:50.792 --> 00:29:51.534
Don't wear that again.
00:29:51.574 --> 00:30:03.852
And Chris's face, Elder Hiscott's face was just absolute dismay and just like shock and like, oh my gosh, this is just not what I expected.
00:30:03.872 --> 00:30:04.752
He looked pretty upset.
00:30:04.792 --> 00:30:09.839
He was upset that he had his cap ripped off his head, etc.
00:30:11.170 --> 00:30:16.578
And just spoken to like, as he told me later, like a bit of a dog, actually.
00:30:17.098 --> 00:30:23.449
So within minutes, we knew that we were dealing with a serious figure in President Dunn.
00:30:24.811 --> 00:30:35.048
And I think President Dunn, and I don't mind him hearing this, he knows, I think he knows what I think about this, but he didn't have as good a relationship with the Scottish Saints as he could have.
00:30:35.689 --> 00:30:38.753
Is he still alive?
00:30:39.362 --> 00:30:40.663
He's still alive, yeah.
00:30:40.683 --> 00:30:42.385
Is President Dunne still alive?
00:30:42.866 --> 00:30:43.728
He is still alive, yes.
00:30:43.768 --> 00:30:44.849
His first wife passed away.
00:30:44.869 --> 00:30:45.451
He's remarried.
00:30:46.071 --> 00:30:55.865
And President Dunne, if you're hearing this, you're a great mission president, but a bit too prickly, I think, for some of us at that time.
00:30:56.086 --> 00:31:06.201
But anyway, very serious, very strict on the rules, which is fine, and very regimental, and again, very military.
00:31:06.300 --> 00:31:06.942
Work.
00:31:07.394 --> 00:31:12.721
I mean, I got there right after, or just a few months after he had left.
00:31:13.282 --> 00:31:13.462
Yeah.
00:31:14.064 --> 00:31:25.580
And sort of the Dunnites that were still around told stories about working, what, 80-hour weeks, 90-hour weeks, giving up any day, all that kind of stuff.
00:31:26.082 --> 00:31:26.863
I was part of that.
00:31:26.982 --> 00:31:28.404
So I got with...
00:31:28.865 --> 00:31:30.107
I was sent to Dumfries.
00:31:31.148 --> 00:31:31.470
This was...
00:31:32.993 --> 00:31:34.935
February, February 87, right?
00:31:35.316 --> 00:31:37.117
With Senator Dumfries.
00:31:37.278 --> 00:31:39.599
And I was with Elder Rockwood.
00:31:39.861 --> 00:31:47.107
Elder Rockwood from Denver had a reputation for working his companions.
00:31:47.147 --> 00:31:51.912
He was a blue-eyed boy of the Dunites of the Dunites.
00:31:53.433 --> 00:31:55.736
He was the one pushing for working more hours.
00:31:57.017 --> 00:31:58.818
He was the one pushing to work P-days.
00:31:59.500 --> 00:32:00.800
He was the one pushing to...
00:32:02.178 --> 00:32:05.320
proselyte while your clothes are being washed.
00:32:06.423 --> 00:32:08.484
Go out for an hour and go do some GQing.
00:32:09.026 --> 00:32:23.922
He was President Dunn's number one or number two favorite missionary and a reputation for running his companions into the ground.
00:32:25.202 --> 00:32:44.888
He'd had some physical and emotional issues as a result of that, some psychological issues was re-infused and sent back into the, he didn't go home, but he was, I think he was sick for a couple of weeks for emotional reasons because he didn't, it reminds me of Joseph Smith, you know, that teaching I think it was about, you know, taking the string off the bow.
00:32:44.929 --> 00:32:53.059
You know, we, you know, we keep the bow and the string on the bow and if we keep it on, it loses tenacity.
00:32:53.079 --> 00:33:02.986
And so sometimes we have to undo the string and kind of relax and chill just to recover and just to rehabilitate and just kind of recharge your batteries.
00:33:03.006 --> 00:33:05.087
Well, Rockwood was not known for that.
00:33:05.729 --> 00:33:07.731
And so I got put with him in Dumfries.
00:33:07.892 --> 00:33:09.294
He was an absolute workaholic.
00:33:09.493 --> 00:33:12.077
He would trick me into like the late nights.
00:33:12.097 --> 00:33:15.301
You had to get back in the mission flat by 9.30, as you know.
00:33:15.321 --> 00:33:19.468
And it was like 9.10 and we had no car at the time.
00:33:19.508 --> 00:33:20.588
We had no car to drive back.
00:33:21.122 --> 00:33:22.923
for a first month, I think.
00:33:22.943 --> 00:33:23.944
We got a car the second month.
00:33:24.005 --> 00:33:31.771
And he said, look, do you want to do, it's 10 past nine or five past nine, do you want to knock on this extra door or just go home to your place?
00:33:31.932 --> 00:33:33.534
And I said, oh, let's go home.
00:33:33.554 --> 00:33:35.415
And he went, no, trick, Chewie, not obedient.
00:33:35.796 --> 00:33:37.698
We'll knock on another door.
00:33:38.258 --> 00:33:40.380
And I was like, oh my gosh.
00:33:40.800 --> 00:33:44.704
He said, Elder Wilkes, you've really got to step up and be obedient.
00:33:45.085 --> 00:33:47.067
Oh, I remember that culture so well.
00:33:47.386 --> 00:33:48.627
I mean, oh my goodness.
00:33:48.888 --> 00:33:49.568
It was horrendous.
00:33:49.789 --> 00:33:54.132
And I remember, Jim, the apartment I went to during freeze was horrendous.
00:33:54.173 --> 00:33:55.220
I've got a photograph of this.
00:33:55.805 --> 00:33:56.348
Can you still hear me?
00:33:58.529 --> 00:34:00.051
I'm sorry.
00:34:00.071 --> 00:34:01.512
That's okay.
00:34:01.773 --> 00:34:03.955
So we drove down from Edinburgh with other Rockwood.
00:34:04.497 --> 00:34:06.598
He'd been there, I don't know, about a month before.
00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:14.367
All the missionaries said to me who knew him in the mission, oh, he's going to run you to the ground, this guy.
00:34:14.387 --> 00:34:14.987
He's a killer.
00:34:15.668 --> 00:34:19.193
He's President Dunne's favorite missionary and his favorite for a reason.
00:34:19.373 --> 00:34:20.715
He never stops working.
00:34:21.034 --> 00:34:22.155
He's a workaholic, this guy.
00:34:22.757 --> 00:34:23.677
I said, okay.
00:34:23.873 --> 00:34:32.342
And so we drove down to the flat in, for your American audience, a flat is an apartment, as you know.
00:34:32.922 --> 00:34:40.068
So we drove down to this rickety old flat on Niff Place in Dumfries.
00:34:40.228 --> 00:34:43.853
And the windows from the outside looked like they were falling out.
00:34:44.373 --> 00:34:45.514
We opened the door.
00:34:45.693 --> 00:34:50.318
It was above a pub and an efficient chip shop at a pub.
00:34:50.478 --> 00:34:51.119
And we opened it.
00:34:51.139 --> 00:34:53.822
It was a red sandstone like the ones in Glasgow, right?
00:34:54.050 --> 00:34:58.400
And we opened the door, went over these crooked old stairs, and we had this concertina door.
00:34:58.440 --> 00:35:00.545
I remember this door.
00:35:01.206 --> 00:35:02.909
I call it a concertina door, like that.
00:35:03.791 --> 00:35:04.773
Like in the chapel.
00:35:04.853 --> 00:35:05.195
You know those...
00:35:05.394 --> 00:35:06.177
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:35:06.958 --> 00:35:07.500
Between the columns.
00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:09.003
The cultural hall.
00:35:09.023 --> 00:35:09.384
That's it.
00:35:09.945 --> 00:35:13.614
Yeah, this was really old, and so we opened it, and the sight...
00:35:13.889 --> 00:35:16.693
I beheld was something out of the third world.
00:35:17.173 --> 00:35:20.818
We had the window on the left, which was a sash window.
00:35:20.858 --> 00:35:21.900
That's the one that pulls down.
00:35:22.621 --> 00:35:27.266
We didn't close properly and there was an old sheet stuck between the three inch gap to stop the wind coming in.
00:35:27.306 --> 00:35:38.139
There was a mattress on the floor and it was all untidy with old bed sheets that looked like they hadn't been washed in a long time.
00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:39.862
And he said, that's your bed.
00:35:39.902 --> 00:35:44.418
And on the right, there was a bed with on bricks.
00:35:44.500 --> 00:35:45.961
There were some bricks supporting the bed.
00:35:46.902 --> 00:35:50.469
And he said, which bed is yours?
00:35:50.608 --> 00:35:54.454
And I was like, that bed, he went, no, uh-uh, wrong answer.
00:35:54.514 --> 00:35:56.157
He did that a lot.
00:35:57.199 --> 00:35:57.860
It was annoying.
00:35:58.842 --> 00:36:02.927
And I get everything wrong.
00:36:03.068 --> 00:36:04.469
Every question he asks, I get it wrong.
00:36:05.351 --> 00:36:06.273
That's my bed.
00:36:06.313 --> 00:36:08.135
That's yours on the floor next to the window.
00:36:08.175 --> 00:36:09.077
That's mine.
00:36:09.478 --> 00:36:10.739
He said, do you know how you can tell the difference?
00:36:10.860 --> 00:36:11.300
And I went, no.
00:36:11.320 --> 00:36:11.802
He said, look up.
00:36:12.161 --> 00:36:15.286
I looked up at the ceiling and I've got to photograph this because this is not believable.
00:36:15.327 --> 00:36:15.967
I've got evidence.
00:36:16.849 --> 00:36:19.673
And I invited a challenge realist because this is real.
00:36:20.856 --> 00:36:28.608
Above on the ceiling of his bed was stapled tin foil, cooking tin foil.
00:36:28.628 --> 00:36:35.920
And it was there to reflect the heat because in the middle of the apartment was an old gas fire.
00:36:36.440 --> 00:36:39.425
You know, the gas fire elements, there was five of them, right?
00:36:39.565 --> 00:36:39.646
Yeah.
00:36:39.746 --> 00:36:41.288
And only the middle one worked.
00:36:41.648 --> 00:36:42.670
It was all gas fires.
00:36:42.690 --> 00:36:43.871
You'd click and it would work.
00:36:44.552 --> 00:36:46.797
And the pilot flame was the only thing that worked.
00:36:47.297 --> 00:36:56.891
And it was only enough power to light that middle section of that, the elements in the gas fire.
00:36:57.632 --> 00:37:08.690
So the gas flames would kick up and it would, if they're all working across the fire, it would heat this stone inside the fire and that would glow and give off all the heat, right?
00:37:09.153 --> 00:37:13.438
But all of the pilot flame works, that meant all the middle element worked, and it was freezing.
00:37:13.659 --> 00:37:14.621
It was unbelievable.
00:37:15.121 --> 00:37:21.768
He had this bed, clean, or it looked clean, loads of bedclothes on it that looked like they were fine, washed.
00:37:22.329 --> 00:37:25.773
Tinfoil on the roof, off the floor.
00:37:26.355 --> 00:37:27.775
Mine, no tinfoil.
00:37:28.336 --> 00:37:35.545
He said, because you're the junior companion, and that's where the junior companions sleep.
00:37:36.130 --> 00:37:38.672
So I said, it was pretty rough, pretty rough.
00:37:39.032 --> 00:37:41.255
I had no idea.
00:37:41.275 --> 00:37:42.878
I didn't expect anything like this at all.
00:37:42.898 --> 00:37:46.001
I expected something a bit more decent than that.
00:37:46.181 --> 00:37:47.222
Anyway, I didn't complain.
00:37:47.262 --> 00:37:47.824
I said, okay.
00:37:48.184 --> 00:37:49.385
I wrote home.
00:37:49.405 --> 00:37:52.489
I slept on that bed for a week.
00:37:52.550 --> 00:37:52.969
I wrote home.
00:37:52.989 --> 00:37:54.711
I took a picture, sent it back.
00:37:54.811 --> 00:38:02.802
And the family, the bishop who looked after me, as you know, were alarmed and sent me a big parcel of stuff.
00:38:03.233 --> 00:38:37.490
full board and blankets and like he I was a refugee right and it was like he's a refugee living in Scotland and you know refugee mode and sending blankets and sleeping bags and so they kind of you remember this farmer's quite well off and I owe much to them you know for helping me and they were like oh my gosh this is awful and they within a week or so or two weeks I got this stuff and and I was able to, you know, stay warm at night.
00:38:37.831 --> 00:38:41.976
The window, the sash window had a gap of two, three inch.
00:38:42.016 --> 00:38:47.862
And there was this stuff, this blanket inside to stop the wind coming.
00:38:48.382 --> 00:38:53.027
And opposite, whoever in Scotland that gets this, or Lizard and Dumfries, whatever, they'll know what I'm talking about.
00:38:53.507 --> 00:38:57.092
Opposite the apartment was a motorcycle shop called Scott Speed.
00:38:57.472 --> 00:38:58.373
I remember Scott Speed.
00:38:59.010 --> 00:39:02.094
And it was right opposite the apartment.
00:39:02.114 --> 00:39:06.739
So at nighttime, above the pub, we'd have fights outside underneath the apartment.
00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:12.266
And literally one time, this guy was banging this other guy's head on our apartment door.
00:39:13.367 --> 00:39:15.871
And so nighttime was crazy, very loud.
00:39:15.911 --> 00:39:16.791
You couldn't get to sleep.
00:39:17.193 --> 00:39:18.213
Pub finished at 11.
00:39:18.253 --> 00:39:19.074
You were in bed at 10.30.
00:39:19.795 --> 00:39:27.666
As you know, 10.30, as soon as you hit the pillow, you were gone because you were so exhausted after knocking on doors for 10 hours a day in the rain.
00:39:28.193 --> 00:39:30.559
and being told to get back to England, the assassin act.
00:39:31.079 --> 00:39:33.244
You know, the Scots really didn't like the English.
00:39:33.264 --> 00:39:39.016
The ones I, many that I came across weren't happy about hearing an English accent.
00:39:39.057 --> 00:39:40.641
That's another conversation.
00:39:40.661 --> 00:39:54.315
So, you know, after all of those 10 hours each day, you know, be rejected and knocking on doors and rain after rain after rain, and then coming home.
00:39:54.356 --> 00:40:06.559
When you've had a rough day at work or whatever, you come home to somewhere warm, a meal, a fire, loved ones, some refuge, some reason for living.
00:40:07.873 --> 00:40:13.280
I went back to this terrible cave that was like I was homeless.
00:40:13.740 --> 00:40:18.327
It was going back to at least the park bench.
00:40:18.887 --> 00:40:21.010
It was my park bench, right?
00:40:22.150 --> 00:40:24.653
Going back there and I was going to look with my dog.
00:40:24.693 --> 00:40:25.255
At least I was...
00:40:25.554 --> 00:40:29.619
I can't compare them, but it was...
00:40:29.860 --> 00:40:32.623
I felt like I'd gone back in time, actually.
00:40:33.085 --> 00:40:35.628
Anyway, the pub was closing 11, 11.30.
00:40:35.668 --> 00:40:37.289
There'd be fights often.
00:40:37.762 --> 00:40:38.543
People got drunk.
00:40:39.284 --> 00:40:50.677
I remember a woman banging the head of what we thought was a boyfriend, but it actually turned out to be a husband's head, banging it on the door.
00:40:51.199 --> 00:40:52.380
And I went down, opened the door.
00:40:52.420 --> 00:40:54.123
They told me to get lost and F off.
00:40:54.163 --> 00:40:55.304
And they were drunk and threatened.
00:40:55.364 --> 00:40:57.286
And I kind of closed the door.
00:40:57.327 --> 00:41:01.952
But this pump lie underneath at nighttime kept us awake.
00:41:01.992 --> 00:41:02.733
I was exhausted.
00:41:02.773 --> 00:41:04.815
And then the freezing.
00:41:04.835 --> 00:41:05.836
It was so cold.
00:41:06.434 --> 00:41:19.259
My companion, I didn't know as much as he did in terms of doctrine, et cetera, so I got all the stuff wrong.
00:41:19.278 --> 00:41:21.101
I passed off the discussions.
00:41:21.141 --> 00:41:22.204
He had to get up at 5.30.
00:41:23.202 --> 00:41:25.786
to pass off the discussions, and I passed them off pretty quickly.
00:41:26.208 --> 00:41:31.137
But he asked the questions to kind of trip me up, and I would often get the answers wrong.
00:41:31.539 --> 00:41:38.472
And then the Scott Speed, this motorcycle shop, literally right opposite the apartment, the flat, the alarm would go off.
00:41:38.793 --> 00:41:39.373
I took a picture.
00:41:39.393 --> 00:41:40.836
I've got a photograph of Scott Speed.
00:41:41.398 --> 00:41:44.965
And in the middle of the night, 3 o'clock in the morning, this...
00:41:45.889 --> 00:41:51.117
I won't swear, but this alarm went off of this motorcycle shop every night almost.
00:41:51.699 --> 00:41:53.641
And I'm, oh my, I'm so tired.
00:41:54.181 --> 00:41:58.248
And I remember one night, the phone, because I'm on the floor, the mattress is on the floor.
00:41:58.288 --> 00:42:00.572
There's a phone there and Rocker's over there.
00:42:00.592 --> 00:42:02.375
And I pick up the phone and I call 999.
00:42:03.036 --> 00:42:04.137
You're 911, right?
00:42:04.217 --> 00:42:05.298
So UK's 999.
00:42:06.179 --> 00:42:08.182
And I call the police and I'm half asleep.
00:42:08.764 --> 00:42:14.492
And I pick up the phone and I say, 999, which emergency service do you need?
00:42:14.532 --> 00:42:19.784
And I went, uh, I was asking anyone, please, just someone, please turn the alarm off.
00:42:20.344 --> 00:42:21.045
And they went, who do you want?
00:42:21.106 --> 00:42:21.726
I said, police.
00:42:22.007 --> 00:42:24.231
I said, the alarm keeps going off.
00:42:24.271 --> 00:42:25.293
And they said, what do you mean the alarm?
00:42:25.313 --> 00:42:25.594
What's this?
00:42:25.634 --> 00:42:26.574
I was half asleep, right?
00:42:26.614 --> 00:42:27.516
Three o'clock in the morning.
00:42:28.038 --> 00:42:29.599
I said, it's the Scott speed.
00:42:29.619 --> 00:42:30.762
The alarm keeps going off.
00:42:31.322 --> 00:42:32.985
And someone must be breaking in.
00:42:33.025 --> 00:42:34.027
Just get the alarm.
00:42:34.068 --> 00:42:34.889
Switch off the alarm.
00:42:34.929 --> 00:42:36.251
I knew people weren't breaking in.
00:42:36.291 --> 00:42:37.492
The alarm was faulty.
00:42:38.054 --> 00:42:40.297
And so some nights the police would show up.
00:42:41.858 --> 00:42:42.679
call the owner.
00:42:43.099 --> 00:42:45.222
The lab would be switched off half an hour later.
00:42:45.262 --> 00:42:51.128
Meanwhile, it's four o'clock in the morning at this point, and I'm absolutely exhausted.
00:42:51.809 --> 00:42:55.713
And then it would happen again another night, a few days later.
00:42:55.873 --> 00:42:59.297
There was no respite going back to the apartment.
00:43:00.117 --> 00:43:05.463
And then with Rockwood, we would work all the hours.
00:43:05.503 --> 00:43:08.025
He was a good mystery, very strict.
00:43:08.567 --> 00:43:11.309
And then I did something that I perhaps shouldn't have done.
00:43:12.130 --> 00:43:26.771
And keeping in mind I'm 20 years old, I'm very fit, I used to gym, weightlifting, athletics, very physical, fast runner, physically in a very good shape.
00:43:27.532 --> 00:43:40.230
And I say to him, and he was exhausted by the way, right at the end of his mission, I got him right at the end, physically drained after two years of burnt out, frankly, and overworked himself.
00:43:40.706 --> 00:43:45.572
And he'd ask permission, without my knowledge, at present don't, for working P-days.
00:43:45.992 --> 00:43:53.221
So I worked my P-days, went to the laundrette, had to go outside to do GQing while he's inside doing his laundry.
00:43:53.581 --> 00:43:55.063
GQing, just for people
00:43:55.242 --> 00:44:00.409
listening to that, that's the asking the Gondolin questions, which were what?
00:44:01.050 --> 00:44:03.112
What do you know about the Mormons and would you like to know more?
00:44:04.193 --> 00:44:04.733
Oh, yeah.
00:44:04.961 --> 00:44:07.485
And my experience of GQing was not successful.
00:44:07.505 --> 00:44:09.746
I once got spat in my face by somebody in Edinburgh.
00:44:10.447 --> 00:44:25.503
GQing is approaching strangers, trying to open a conversation about religion, in Scotland, by the way, which, as you know, as well as I do, if you're not Church of Scotland or whatever, then, I don't know, that doesn't go down very well.
00:44:26.003 --> 00:44:30.748
And so I would track long hours on those Dumfries streets and...
00:44:31.842 --> 00:44:34.304
And I'd say to Elder Rockwood, who's like 10 past nine.
00:44:34.324 --> 00:44:34.925
I said, Elder Rockwood.
00:44:35.385 --> 00:44:36.927
And he would look so tired, Jim.
00:44:36.947 --> 00:44:37.909
He was so exhausted.
00:44:37.929 --> 00:44:39.472
His eyes were sagging.
00:44:39.512 --> 00:44:43.976
His eyelids, he almost had to lift them up with his hands.
00:44:44.137 --> 00:44:44.918
He was exhausted.
00:44:45.438 --> 00:44:47.681
I said, look, we've had a long day here.
00:44:47.702 --> 00:44:53.028
Do you want to go home or knock this last door?
00:44:53.108 --> 00:44:54.050
And he went, oh, let's go.
00:44:54.070 --> 00:44:54.791
And I went, no.
00:44:54.811 --> 00:44:56.934
I said, no.
00:44:58.402 --> 00:45:00.083
I said, we're going to knock this next door.
00:45:00.364 --> 00:45:03.208
Then he went, he looked at me and was like, oh my gosh.
00:45:03.449 --> 00:45:06.032
And I went, no, we're going to be obedient.
00:45:06.693 --> 00:45:07.994
We're going to knock this last door.
00:45:08.635 --> 00:45:11.639
I said, you didn't qualify in that one, did you?
00:45:11.679 --> 00:45:12.641
You weren't successful.
00:45:12.842 --> 00:45:15.204
They say you weren't successful in your answers there.
00:45:15.786 --> 00:45:17.568
And I said, it was wrong that I did that.
00:45:17.768 --> 00:45:19.972
And I feel bad about that.
00:45:20.893 --> 00:45:25.438
But in the last few weeks, I pushed him hard physically.
00:45:26.019 --> 00:45:26.721
And so what I did...
00:45:27.938 --> 00:45:32.724
he would, when I first got him the first week, he'd run between doors.
00:45:33.465 --> 00:45:34.947
We'd run from door to door.
00:45:35.807 --> 00:45:36.789
And I'd say, okay.
00:45:36.949 --> 00:45:38.711
And I was, remember, I'm the fresh guy.
00:45:39.472 --> 00:45:40.574
Fit, athletic.
00:45:42.456 --> 00:45:43.318
Used to be a gymnast.
00:45:44.099 --> 00:45:44.458
I'd run.
00:45:44.498 --> 00:45:46.201
I'd weightlift.
00:45:46.581 --> 00:45:47.302
I'm in good shape.
00:45:48.003 --> 00:45:49.144
I said, this is fine.
00:45:49.505 --> 00:45:50.927
And then the second week it stopped.
00:45:50.987 --> 00:45:51.807
I said, why are we not running?
00:45:51.867 --> 00:45:52.228
Let's run.
00:45:52.829 --> 00:45:53.851
So I made him run.
00:45:53.871 --> 00:45:57.724
And for the last three weeks.
00:46:00.128 --> 00:46:08.706
So what little life he had left, and I regret doing that, but we ran and ran and ran and ran and ran.
00:46:08.746 --> 00:46:09.228
We ran.
00:46:09.268 --> 00:46:14.980
We didn't have a car for the first month, so I made him run to the area and made him run back.
00:46:15.820 --> 00:46:17.324
So we knocked a couple of doors.
00:46:17.684 --> 00:46:22.115
I said, I said, what we'll do, we'll knock some more doors and run back.
00:46:22.396 --> 00:46:24.460
Allow us to be more obedient and knock those doors.
00:46:24.681 --> 00:46:25.422
He couldn't believe it.
00:46:25.782 --> 00:46:36.119
He wrote to the mission president and said to the President Dunn, and he got around the mission, and I didn't like this reputation, but Elder Wilkes has worked me to death.
00:46:36.940 --> 00:46:38.242
He's worked the worker.
00:46:39.625 --> 00:46:55.505
And I got this, I was fairly balanced as a missionary, but I got this reputation of being a, extremely hard worker, working PEDs, and I knew what I was doing wasn't right.
00:46:55.606 --> 00:46:59.110
I think I was trying to teach him a lesson.
00:46:59.271 --> 00:47:03.197
In hindsight, with a bit more maturity, I wouldn't have done that.
00:47:03.737 --> 00:47:14.173
So what you're saying is you're saying that you weren't working like that because you felt sort of compelled to do the work, but you were doing it sort of to spite him.
00:47:14.657 --> 00:47:15.498
To teach him a lesson.
00:47:15.719 --> 00:47:16.601
Yeah, teach him a lesson.
00:47:16.621 --> 00:47:16.900
Yeah.
00:47:16.981 --> 00:47:17.822
And that was wrong.
00:47:17.882 --> 00:47:20.947
And I was immature and that was wrong.
00:47:21.007 --> 00:47:22.009
And I regret that.
00:47:22.108 --> 00:47:30.282
And at the end, I apologized to him and we started developing a good relationship towards the end.
00:47:30.322 --> 00:47:32.085
And I said, that was wrong what I did.
00:47:32.164 --> 00:47:38.467
He actually admitted to me that he'd overworked himself and And I said, look, I was trying to teach you a lesson that was wrong.
00:47:38.487 --> 00:47:40.690
You know that companion inventory they call it, right?
00:47:41.172 --> 00:47:42.134
Companion inventory.
00:47:42.153 --> 00:47:46.663
You maybe had like a half an hour to tell each other where you need to improve.
00:47:47.443 --> 00:47:50.791
With him, he gave me the full half hour.
00:47:50.811 --> 00:47:54.137
I had to write everything down, all the things I needed to improve on.
00:47:54.538 --> 00:47:56.641
But for him, it was just a few minutes.
00:47:56.722 --> 00:47:58.304
But it was a long list I had to work on.
00:47:58.818 --> 00:48:00.500
Anyway, I regret doing that.
00:48:01.059 --> 00:48:02.882
I'll tell you a funny story, though, Jim.
00:48:03.242 --> 00:48:06.525
It's just giving you an idea of what it was like there.
00:48:07.467 --> 00:48:08.588
We'd been out tracting.
00:48:08.628 --> 00:48:09.530
We were exhausted.
00:48:10.070 --> 00:48:10.990
We'd ran everywhere.
00:48:11.010 --> 00:48:12.293
He was burned out.
00:48:12.492 --> 00:48:14.034
I was tired, but I didn't show it.
00:48:15.135 --> 00:48:16.436
It was cold, windy.
00:48:16.577 --> 00:48:17.818
We'd been rejected all day.
00:48:17.858 --> 00:48:20.461
Every day was like that, frankly.
00:48:20.822 --> 00:48:24.385
And I remember we were knocking in a town called Lockerbie.
00:48:26.427 --> 00:48:27.869
Yeah, that's where the...
00:48:29.025 --> 00:48:30.648
That's where the terror is the time.
00:48:31.329 --> 00:48:31.750
Exactly.
00:48:32.010 --> 00:48:33.192
You were there at the time?
00:48:33.291 --> 00:48:34.472
I was there, yes.
00:48:34.532 --> 00:48:37.217
So this is just before the event.
00:48:37.657 --> 00:48:44.126
I'd knocked most of the doors in Lockerbie with Elder Rockwood, and he left, and I was there for a few more months.
00:48:44.166 --> 00:48:50.755
So the other missions that came after Elder Rockwood, I was in the same area.
00:48:50.974 --> 00:48:54.119
I think I sent three missions home from Dumfries.
00:48:54.659 --> 00:48:55.561
I was there for a few months.
00:48:56.130 --> 00:48:57.452
Got to know the members well.
00:48:57.692 --> 00:48:58.373
Loved the members.
00:48:58.432 --> 00:48:59.094
Adored the members.
00:49:00.757 --> 00:49:02.418
Cried, bawled my eyes out when I left.
00:49:03.059 --> 00:49:03.400
Sobbed.
00:49:03.760 --> 00:49:04.402
Didn't want to leave.
00:49:04.922 --> 00:49:07.405
Wrote to the mission president, don't make me leave.
00:49:07.887 --> 00:49:10.170
He said, here, Elder Wilkes, this is how the missions work.
00:49:10.190 --> 00:49:11.452
You go from there.
00:49:11.492 --> 00:49:12.193
I was heartbroken.
00:49:12.293 --> 00:49:13.715
I got so close to them, Jim.
00:49:13.795 --> 00:49:19.123
I got up early hours of the morning, got a photograph of the sun rising and me taking a picture of the sunrise.
00:49:19.182 --> 00:49:24.030
And I remember I still got that photograph and I was absolutely bawling my eyes out driving up to the mission from Dumfries.
00:49:24.449 --> 00:49:27.492
Fell in love with the members and just grew close to the area.
00:49:28.052 --> 00:49:37.641
Anyway, we tracked at Lockerbie for many months just before the terrorist attack and got to know the folks in that town very well, many of them.
00:49:37.963 --> 00:49:40.025
Some of them sadly lost their life in that event.
00:49:41.065 --> 00:49:50.514
And there was a house that we knocked on, a small cottage that was a terraced redstone cottage, quite long.
00:49:50.795 --> 00:49:56.885
There were terraced properties, sandstone single-story door, window.
00:49:57.346 --> 00:49:59.108
But when you opened the door, it was quite long.
00:49:59.148 --> 00:50:03.596
They had quite lengthy places, buildings.
00:50:03.815 --> 00:50:10.646
And so when this door opened, and it was 8.30, exhausted, hungry, cold, rejected.
00:50:12.409 --> 00:50:16.615
The door opened, and this sweet old lady came to the door with a wee Scottish accent.
00:50:17.237 --> 00:50:22.626
And quickly, within seconds, I...
00:50:24.481 --> 00:50:46.757
stopped listening to her and my whole DNA focused entirely on this incredible roaring fire that I could see right at the end of the corridor, the walkway.
00:50:46.898 --> 00:50:48.481
What do you call it when you go into the house?
00:50:48.501 --> 00:50:49.101
It's quite long.
00:50:49.583 --> 00:50:50.543
Landing corridor.
00:50:50.764 --> 00:50:51.284
It's quite long.
00:50:51.304 --> 00:50:51.505
Yeah.
00:50:52.034 --> 00:51:31.755
again this is on the floor this is ground level there's no upstairs it was quite long there must have been three rooms on the left but in the distance there beckoning me and speaking to me was this fire this real great roaring fire and I could see a settee which is a couch that looked inviting that was speaking to me coming in coming in there were two armchairs that I could see in the room but this fire was just um speaking to me personally, and the whole body, the whole mind was completely and entirely focused on trying to get in, not to teach the gospel.
00:51:32.976 --> 00:51:33.697
But to get warm.
00:51:34.257 --> 00:51:35.539
But to get warm.
00:51:36.139 --> 00:51:39.322
And I remember not saying anything on the door.
00:51:40.304 --> 00:51:45.268
Initially, Elder Rockwood was speaking and it wasn't going well.
00:51:45.909 --> 00:51:49.893
And I said to this lady, I said, look, we're so cold.
00:51:50.273 --> 00:51:50.914
We're so cold.
00:51:50.934 --> 00:51:51.775
It's been a long day.
00:51:51.815 --> 00:51:56.422
Would you mind if we come in just for a few minutes just to get warmed?
00:51:56.963 --> 00:51:57.324
Please.
00:51:57.344 --> 00:51:58.585
I was like that.
00:51:58.664 --> 00:51:59.726
Please, please.
00:52:00.807 --> 00:52:02.971
And lo and behold, she said yes.
00:52:03.512 --> 00:52:04.592
And I'm like, oh my God.
00:52:04.612 --> 00:52:08.338
Elder Rock had looked at me and was like, wow, that's a great way of getting in, right?
00:52:09.300 --> 00:52:11.563
But that wasn't my intention.
00:52:11.603 --> 00:52:13.766
My intention was actually to get warm.
00:52:13.826 --> 00:52:17.891
Speaking to you, who knows this, which is
00:52:18.052 --> 00:52:19.434
anyone being in Scotland, right?
00:52:19.514 --> 00:52:22.409
You know, I have to tell this story just very quickly.
00:52:22.429 --> 00:52:32.764
I had a similar experience in that there was, we were freezing and we knew there was a member, he was a less active member.
00:52:33.666 --> 00:52:39.896
And so we went to his house and he had this coal fire, this big, huge coal fire, really, really warm.
00:52:39.936 --> 00:52:44.242
We got in, we sat there and he just started talking our ears off and I fell asleep.
00:52:44.842 --> 00:52:45.664
I was falling asleep.
00:52:45.704 --> 00:52:49.150
And I think I started to dream.
00:52:50.177 --> 00:52:58.166
And at one point, totally inappropriate, I all of a sudden say, I have a cousin with Down syndrome.
00:52:59.068 --> 00:53:00.608
Had nothing to do with the conversation.
00:53:00.650 --> 00:53:01.469
Nothing at all.
00:53:01.951 --> 00:53:03.271
It was complete non sequitur.
00:53:03.793 --> 00:53:09.639
And all of a sudden, he's looking at me like, what?
00:53:09.659 --> 00:53:15.465
I could just staring at me and I just was like, oh, nice to be here with you.
00:53:16.322 --> 00:53:21.695
But it was one of the most traumatic moments of my mission just because it was so inappropriate.
00:53:22.135 --> 00:53:22.737
Anyway, go ahead.
00:53:22.938 --> 00:53:26.987
I just know that I understand exactly
00:53:27.047 --> 00:53:28.110
how you felt at that moment.
00:53:28.130 --> 00:53:28.570
That's funny.
00:53:28.610 --> 00:53:29.072
That's funny.
00:53:29.112 --> 00:53:30.275
This is very similar to that.
00:53:30.434 --> 00:53:31.518
Very similar, Clayton.
00:53:31.650 --> 00:53:32.110
Interesting.
00:53:32.150 --> 00:53:33.132
We had a similar experience.
00:53:33.512 --> 00:53:34.652
So she lets us in.
00:53:34.693 --> 00:53:35.414
We walk down.
00:53:35.815 --> 00:53:39.579
As I'm walking down, I start to feel it getting warmer and warmer.
00:53:40.420 --> 00:53:41.621
It's quite a long corridor.
00:53:41.661 --> 00:53:46.766
We go in and you've got this two single chairs and a big settee.
00:53:47.407 --> 00:53:51.572
She sat, you could tell where she'd been sitting on this big couch on the corner there.
00:53:52.353 --> 00:53:54.775
Right in the center, there's this big roaring fire.
00:53:55.536 --> 00:53:57.398
Just, you know, logs on it.
00:53:58.521 --> 00:53:59.240
It's hot.
00:53:59.402 --> 00:54:01.130
It's Flames are everywhere.
00:54:01.170 --> 00:54:02.411
It's glowing red.
00:54:02.431 --> 00:54:06.817
The whole room is just so warm and toasty.
00:54:07.777 --> 00:54:09.099
And I'm so grateful.
00:54:09.219 --> 00:54:11.001
I'm like, Heavenly Father, thank you so much.
00:54:11.943 --> 00:54:17.208
Thank you so much for letting us come in into this person's home to get warm.
00:54:17.268 --> 00:54:20.251
I didn't thank you for the opportunity to teach, nothing like that.
00:54:20.391 --> 00:54:23.594
It was purely selfish and not in saving us.
00:54:23.635 --> 00:54:25.317
So I wasn't interested in saving us all.
00:54:25.356 --> 00:54:27.219
Of course, I would like to save us all.
00:54:27.559 --> 00:54:28.661
But for me, it was like a...
00:54:29.826 --> 00:54:31.969
survival kind of thing, right?
00:54:32.730 --> 00:54:38.117
And so anyway, we sat down and she was sweet and she said, oh, where are you from?
00:54:38.197 --> 00:54:40.820
And I'm from Yorkshire and Elder Oak is from Denver.
00:54:41.561 --> 00:54:43.664
Oh yes, she's got a cousin in America.
00:54:43.704 --> 00:54:46.208
She's talking and the fire's right there.
00:54:46.248 --> 00:55:12.128
And a minute later, probably not much longer than that, the conversation stops and I look up and Elder Rockwood, who's totally burned and literally a week or two before going home and burned out, beyond burned, he's got his eyes closed and is asleep, right?
00:55:12.548 --> 00:55:13.108
Two minutes in.
00:55:14.550 --> 00:55:26.764
I look at this lady and she's smiling at me and I say, well, we've got a, we have a, you know, we're missionaries and we have a message and, you know, we want to share that message with you.
00:55:26.784 --> 00:55:28.365
She says, that's very lovely, very sweet.
00:55:28.929 --> 00:55:36.081
And so all I remember is looking across at Elder Rockwood, he's not there anymore.
00:55:38.364 --> 00:55:41.369
Looking at him has an effect on me.
00:55:41.409 --> 00:55:47.878
And I just put my head back and I said, Elder Rockwood will now share some things with us.
00:55:48.820 --> 00:55:52.445
And he was asleep.
00:55:52.545 --> 00:55:53.045
He's asleep.
00:55:53.246 --> 00:55:53.887
He's dead.
00:55:54.126 --> 00:55:55.268
Not literally dead, but he's asleep.
00:55:55.728 --> 00:55:56.248
Dead to the will.
00:55:57.309 --> 00:56:00.213
She looks at him, and you can tell she's tired.
00:56:00.233 --> 00:56:01.034
She's an old lady.
00:56:01.074 --> 00:56:03.836
She's quite tired.
00:56:04.336 --> 00:56:19.871
I then close my eyes, and next thing I know is at some point, five or ten minutes later, I think it was about five minutes or six minutes later, I wake up, my eyes open.
00:56:20.932 --> 00:56:23.742
I'm wondering where the heck I am, I look at her.
00:56:23.782 --> 00:56:24.523
She's asleep.
00:56:26.186 --> 00:56:26.867
She fell asleep.
00:56:28.548 --> 00:56:29.510
I look at Elder Ockwood.
00:56:29.630 --> 00:56:30.490
He's gone.
00:56:30.510 --> 00:56:31.351
He's totally asleep.
00:56:32.213 --> 00:56:42.065
I look at the fire and I think, shall I do the right thing and wake everybody up and save this person's soul like a good mystery?
00:56:42.105 --> 00:56:45.530
Or should I fall back asleep?
00:56:47.746 --> 00:56:48.807
What do you think I...
00:56:50.650 --> 00:56:55.918
I know what I would have done, which is what I think you probably did.
00:56:56.378 --> 00:56:56.699
I did.
00:56:56.719 --> 00:57:03.449
I kind of put my head back, and I must have gone for 20 minutes, 15, 20 minutes.
00:57:03.809 --> 00:57:08.777
And we must have been sleeping for 20 minutes in total, probably, 25 minutes.
00:57:08.856 --> 00:57:09.719
And then we woke up.
00:57:10.059 --> 00:57:10.860
I woke up again.
00:57:10.880 --> 00:57:14.344
I felt a bit guilty, you know, a total stranger to this lady's house.
00:57:14.945 --> 00:57:16.047
She was still gone.
00:57:16.088 --> 00:57:16.789
He was still gone.
00:57:16.909 --> 00:57:18.572
And then I said, I went like this.
00:57:18.592 --> 00:57:18.771
I went.
00:57:20.976 --> 00:57:23.500
And I went, Elder Ockwood, over to you.
00:57:30.972 --> 00:57:31.733
Oh, my gosh.
00:57:31.974 --> 00:57:32.394
Oh, my gosh.
00:57:32.494 --> 00:57:35.840
Anyway, at the big bar, she woke up like that.
00:57:35.981 --> 00:57:36.621
And I went, Elder Ockwood.
00:57:36.862 --> 00:57:37.643
And he woke up like that.
00:57:37.664 --> 00:57:38.264
I said, over to you.
00:57:38.885 --> 00:57:39.786
And he went, ah.
00:57:39.907 --> 00:57:40.568
He looked around me.
00:57:40.628 --> 00:57:41.469
I said, I won't.
00:57:42.114 --> 00:57:43.556
Like, where the heck are we?
00:57:43.976 --> 00:57:46.219
She's like, who are you, guys?
00:57:47.621 --> 00:57:54.449
For a moment, like, she's got these two total strangers, one with the Yorkshire accent, mine, one with the American accent, his.
00:57:55.650 --> 00:57:56.731
She doesn't know us, right?
00:57:57.972 --> 00:58:02.018
In her living room, she looks at a watch.
00:58:02.318 --> 00:58:05.782
Oh, what's going on, she said.
00:58:05.802 --> 00:58:08.766
And I said, oh, we're missionaries, sir.
00:58:08.898 --> 00:58:10.500
You know, when you let us in, we were cold.
00:58:10.559 --> 00:58:11.260
Let us in your very care.
00:58:11.420 --> 00:58:12.121
Oh, yes, yes, yes.
00:58:12.481 --> 00:58:13.943
I said, the Rockwood's got something to say.
00:58:14.003 --> 00:58:15.445
And he went, where do we leave off?
00:58:18.309 --> 00:58:20.431
I said, I said, the Holy Ghost dialogue.
00:58:21.693 --> 00:58:22.054
Here we go.
00:58:22.114 --> 00:58:22.534
Dialogue.
00:58:22.735 --> 00:58:24.396
Come on, get with it.
00:58:25.018 --> 00:58:27.922
So it started talking about the Holy Ghost dialogue.
00:58:28.001 --> 00:58:30.405
And she said, look, you know, I'm not interested.
00:58:30.445 --> 00:58:31.465
I'll let you in to get warm.
00:58:31.606 --> 00:58:32.387
And I said, you know what?
00:58:32.967 --> 00:58:35.530
Elder Rockwood, this lovely lady, she's right.
00:58:35.630 --> 00:58:41.313
Let's let this lady have a night back and We're very grateful to you for allowing us in to get warm.
00:58:41.353 --> 00:58:43.677
We were so cold out there, so thank you so much.
00:58:44.398 --> 00:58:53.190
Elder Rock was still bewildered as to what's going on and still can't quite remember which part of the discussion that he needed to get back into.
00:58:53.210 --> 00:58:55.773
Of course, we didn't teach any discussions.
00:58:55.793 --> 00:58:57.835
And so that was it.
00:58:57.896 --> 00:58:59.097
So we left.
00:59:00.298 --> 00:59:04.965
There's 20 minutes of our mission life where we completely sleep in a stranger's home.
00:59:05.570 --> 00:59:06.952
But I will always be grateful.
00:59:07.211 --> 00:59:16.784
What a wonderful lady who let these two strangers in, in front of this roaring fire, who just kind of, for that night, just kind of kept us warm.
00:59:16.844 --> 00:59:20.347
So amazing, amazing experience.
00:59:20.807 --> 00:59:21.469
And there are plenty
00:59:21.869 --> 00:59:24.492
more amazing experiences to come, but we're out of time.
00:59:24.793 --> 00:59:28.737
So we hope to see you next time on Inside Out.
00:59:28.757 --> 00:59:32.061
Inside Out.