WEBVTT
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00:00:08.550the win, the win, the win.
00:00:08.550 -->
00:00:09.211100.
00:00:09.211 -->
00:00:12.073I worked really hard for that win.
00:00:12.073 -->
00:00:14.096I trained really well for the win.
00:00:14.096 -->
00:00:15.323So did julie.
00:00:15.323 -->
00:00:17.472It just happened to like that's how it turned out.
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00:00:23.260On that race day, you know, I really feel like we shared the iconic moment.
00:00:23.260 -->
00:00:24.942I don don't care about the attention.
00:00:24.942 -->
00:00:33.865You know like people will even leave me out of an entire conversation of the 1982 World Championship finish and talk about Julie.
00:00:33.966 -->
00:00:41.689I don't have a problem with that and to keep coming back.
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00:00:50.372In this episode we sit down with one of the most iconic figures in endurance sport, ironman champion Kathleen McCartney.
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00:01:02.758You may know her as the winner of the legendary 1982 Ironman race, the race that gave us the crawl, but her story didn't stop at that finish line.
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00:01:10.472Kathleen shares the mindset that took her from an inexperienced college student to an Ironman world champion in just a year.
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00:01:21.626She opens up about coming back to racing after having children, rebuilding herself for endurance sport after divorce and the wisdom she's gained from coaching.
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00:01:33.004She reveals the greatest lessons she learned from legendary mentors, including Bill Bacharach, and the surprising friendship that brought her back to Kona decades later.
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00:01:43.512Whether you're an athlete, an entrepreneur or someone looking to overcome life's challenges, kathleen's story will inspire you to redefine what's possible.
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00:01:51.167So let's dive in to this conversation with the legend that is Kathleen McCartney.
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00:01:54.272Do you know what?
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00:01:58.710When we look at the back end of this podcast, then we see something really interesting.
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00:02:04.968We see that 57% of the people that regularly listen to it haven't hit the subscribe button.
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00:02:28.286So could I ask you a quick favor before we dive into today's episode, if you're enjoying Claire and I bringing you amazing guests, not asking you for patronage fees and not jamming the podcast full of adverts, then the best way you can help us continue to do that and make it even better is to hit that subscribe button.
00:02:28.286 -->
00:02:39.354And here's my promise to you when you subscribe, we'll make it our mission, along with the team that supports us, to continue to improve this podcast every week.
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00:02:45.894So thank you so much for your support and for being a part of the Business of Endurance community.
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00:02:47.465Let's dive in.
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00:02:51.731So, kathleen, welcome to the Business of Endurance podcast.
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00:02:54.788I am really looking forward to this conversation.
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00:03:04.846I think this is going to be a really special discussion around, particularly going back to the early days of Ironman, which I absolutely love, and that's where I really want to start.
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00:03:16.688Early days of Ironman, which I absolutely love, and that's where I really want to start, but in fact, like kind of what I want, I'd love to know the story about how you ended up getting into Ironman, because I think it's it's quite a magical introduction.
00:03:16.688 -->
00:03:22.687So but tell us, how did you end up getting into the, the sport of triathlon and Ironman in particular?
00:03:23.707 -->
00:03:29.686Well, I had never even heard of a triathlon back in until like 1980.
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00:03:37.081And so for me, making a decision the following year to do an Ironman was something that was just pretty.
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00:03:40.485It was nowhere on my radar at all.
00:03:40.485 -->
00:03:48.475I went over to Kona in 1981 to watch the Ironman for the very first time.
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00:03:53.752It was on the big island of Hawaii, and so this was all just so exciting to me.
00:03:53.752 -->
00:03:58.081But I had no intention of doing an Ironman.
00:03:58.081 -->
00:04:15.215It wasn't, like I said, nowhere on the radar, but the fact that I'd never seen an Ironman, I'd never watched it on TV, I didn't really know the magic and the allure and the draw and just everything that Ironman offers to spectators.
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00:04:27.781So I was there and I just thought, god, these people during race week, like how could they even possibly run a marathon in this heat and the humidity?
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00:04:31.189And I just felt kind of exhausted being a spectator.
00:04:31.189 -->
00:04:33.553So it all again.
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00:04:37.588It just reinforced how impossible and crazy and it was all so new.
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00:04:43.045Well, on race morning I decided to watch the race from the seawall.
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00:04:49.024So I'm just sitting on the seawall, I can see, you know, captain Bean's boat.
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00:04:51.410You know, 1.2 miles out to sea.
00:04:51.410 -->
00:04:54.663You know, we're kind of like watching the sun come up.
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00:05:12.009And then, as the athletes started to go into the water, I started to feel this ridiculous energy and it was like these people were like terrified, excited, probably just felt so empowered and and I don't know.
00:05:12.028 -->
00:05:38.865I think everyone's energy was just radiating to me and I just started to feel this kind of like burning desire to like of like burning desire to like wish that I was in that water instead of on seawall and I just thought, wow, these people are just doing something so impossible and so crazy and I don't want to be a spectator in life, like I'm going to do that.
00:05:38.865 -->
00:05:45.088And then, when the gun went off, I was just like, oh my God, oh yeah, yeah, I'm doing this.
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00:05:52.451Next year, I'm going to be in that water, I'm going to swim out there to Captain Bean's boat get out there and I'm going to do an Ironman.
00:05:52.451 -->
00:06:04.755And that it literally started just with the energy of the athletes and the visual spectacle and energy that I felt for doing something that seemed impossible to me.
00:06:06.120 -->
00:06:10.170And what had taken you to Kona to watch the Ironman in the first place.
00:06:10.170 -->
00:06:10.812What took you there?
00:06:11.841 -->
00:06:21.711I was going there to watch a boyfriend race in his second Ironman, so that was my introduction to the sport as well was through him.
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00:06:36.050And Claire and I both know, obviously, what that seawall is like and the start and the just I mean just just for those people that have never witnessed that as like so we've never really, we've not really spoken about spectating during that race.
00:06:36.271 -->
00:06:49.425Just try to describe what's magical about that, that start of the race oh, oh well, the mass start, which most people are no longer familiar with because they took the mass start out of Ironman.
00:06:49.425 -->
00:06:59.906And so when you're seeing, I think there were like 365 people or 385 people in 1981.
00:06:59.906 -->
00:07:11.896And so to see that many people all lined up together, and so to see that many people all lined up together, you know that in itself was just incredible to see and everybody just looked so fit.
00:07:11.896 -->
00:07:19.906You know, they're just like going down the steps and getting into the water and you're like who are these people, like what makes them tick?
00:07:19.906 -->
00:07:27.553And then there's a helicopter, abc helicopter overhead, and ABC Wide World of Sports is there.
00:07:27.553 -->
00:07:38.295And you know just something to see a live event like that, when you had no idea what you're about to see, was awe inspiring.
00:07:39.682 -->
00:07:45.579I think I always say that to be a spectator is actually a really hard day, but it is amazing, isn't it?
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00:07:47.887To follow, follow a competitor.
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00:07:56.550Maybe, Kathleen there was an ulterior motive there to your boyfriend bringing you along to spectate at the event to become the next athlete.
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00:07:59.749Yeah, I don't think he would have ever had guessed that.
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00:08:02.906Well, I'm really intrigued.
00:08:02.906 -->
00:08:09.745I love the history of Ironman and obviously we're going're going to come on to one of the amazing stories.
00:08:09.745 -->
00:08:20.192But females in Ironman, when you first started competing, what kind of numbers were there Like you know, how many women were there in a field Like?
00:08:20.192 -->
00:08:21.533What did that look like?
00:08:23.033 -->
00:08:26.456It was very small field in 1982.
00:08:26.456 -->
00:08:45.315When I raced, there were, I think, 565 total athletes and and there were only like 51 women, so it was like about 10%, and so I'm kind of surprised that those numbers are not 50-50.
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00:08:47.607They have not been 50-50.
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00:09:00.811And that is my dream to like grow the sport, motivate women to find the time, the space to get this in their lives, whether it's an Ironman or 70.3 or a triathlon.
00:09:00.811 -->
00:09:05.572But I would love to see those numbers be, you know, 50, 50.
00:09:06.861 -->
00:09:10.412I mean, those numbers sound really tiny and I totally understand what you're saying about.
00:09:10.412 -->
00:09:15.091You know still that hasn't it's increased, but you don't still see those that that split.
00:09:15.091 -->
00:09:19.410When you decided you were going to do that, did people then think you were absolutely mad?
00:09:20.759 -->
00:09:21.360Yeah for sure.
00:09:21.360 -->
00:09:25.703Like my family could not understand it, my friends couldn't understand it.
00:09:25.703 -->
00:09:26.624Like how could?
00:09:26.624 -->
00:09:47.201They wasn't a big thing, it wasn't mainstream at all.
00:09:47.201 -->
00:09:58.250But I got so much encouragement from all my loved ones and friends and then I immediately had a very supportive community to train with.
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00:10:16.412I was the only woman in the group but because my boyfriend at the time had done two Ironman races, you know, I basically was just kind of thrown in the pack and I thought, oh, wow, In addition to wanting to do something really hard, like the training is really hard and really long.
00:10:16.412 -->
00:10:26.100So my whole sense of distance like oh, you go out on 60 mile bike rides or a hundred mile ride, Okay, Well, that's just what you do if you're training for Ironman.
00:10:26.501 -->
00:10:34.767So I was kind of just like said to the wolves and thrown right in yeah, it sounds like you were, and especially with that group of men to train around.
00:10:34.767 -->
00:10:36.880I guess you had to, you know, had to keep up.
00:10:37.282 -->
00:10:38.063Yeah it was scary.
00:10:38.725 -->
00:10:45.594So what happened from that moment when you you know you'd watched, you'd watched your partner at this event, you wanted to to do Ironman.
00:10:45.594 -->
00:10:48.042You just talked about starting training.
00:10:48.042 -->
00:10:52.412So what happened in the 1982 Ironman World Championships?
00:10:52.412 -->
00:10:53.273What happened then?
00:10:53.273 -->
00:10:59.159So talk us through the day, what you were feeling and, of course, what happened towards the end as well.
00:10:59.640 -->
00:11:00.342Yes, yes.
00:11:00.342 -->
00:11:10.706So that year, that day in 1981, when I decided to do an Ironman, of course my goal was just to finish right.
00:11:10.706 -->
00:11:13.379I mean that would be audacious to think anything else.
00:11:13.379 -->
00:11:26.741I mean, I kind of came up, let's wrote out some rough numbers, you know, like from day one I'm like, wow, I think I could do this in like 15 hours, even though I wasn't a swimmer or a cyclist or runner at the time.
00:11:27.342 -->
00:11:41.620But then over the course of the year I just found incredible gifts of strength, endurance, determination, desire, passion, and I just loved it so much and I really made a lot of progress.
00:11:41.620 -->
00:11:53.720So by the time I got to Kona in 1982, I did show up thinking that I could win the race because I had won all the races that I had entered.
00:11:53.720 -->
00:12:05.370I entered two half Ironman races and won them both, and in one of them, the Navy SEAL Super Frog, I got ninth overall for men and women.
00:12:05.370 -->
00:12:10.985So I kind of had a lot of positivity going into the race.
00:12:10.985 -->
00:12:21.052So I've showed up and like, yeah, if I race my own race and have a great race, like I could be first, which was kind of crazy to think that that could happen in a year.
00:12:21.919 -->
00:12:22.741So tell us then.
00:12:22.741 -->
00:12:25.841So you've gone into it, going right, I could win this.
00:12:25.841 -->
00:12:28.729Tell us the story of how that day played out.
00:12:29.350 -->
00:12:33.241Well, it didn't go as planned, as you could probably attest to.
00:12:33.241 -->
00:12:38.280Like you know how many, how many races do you do that are like your dream race, you know?
00:12:38.280 -->
00:12:46.261Right, the story would be too long, but I did have what I thought was a food poisoning event and ended up in the hospital the two days before the race.
00:12:46.261 -->
00:12:56.043So I had to change my mental perspective and goal from wanting to win to wanting to just finish again.
00:12:56.043 -->
00:13:13.082So I got out of the hospital after being on IVs the night before, I bought out on Friday at noon and then I just prayed for a horrific storm so they could postpone it, you know, one more day, so I could get my strength back and like maybe even eat food and drink.
00:13:13.082 -->
00:13:15.327But that didn't happen.
00:13:15.327 -->
00:13:25.369So I showed up at the start line going like I don't, I don't care, I'm going to like forget about what I've gone through the last two days and just like, I've got to finish this race.
00:13:25.369 -->
00:13:52.309So that was my mindset and I think that's something that has been so important and so valuable throughout my entire life and career is to just say, hey, you know you may be dealt with something really, really unexpected and some challenges to overcome, but like figure it out and always get to the finish line and never, ever give up hope.
00:13:52.309 -->
00:14:06.032And so that was such a great way to kind of like start my day, because I learned something and my very first Ironman before I even started it's all about your attitude Like you can't.
00:14:06.032 -->
00:14:12.296I couldn't change anything else, but I could control my attitude.
00:14:12.296 -->
00:14:16.386So I went into the attitude just like go for it, give it your best.
00:14:16.889 -->
00:14:22.383I had a terrible swim Like I went at least 12 minutes slower than I expected.
00:14:22.383 -->
00:14:24.147I felt so weak.
00:14:24.147 -->
00:14:31.995I remember getting out of the swim and feeling like, oh my God, this is what it must feel to finish an Ironman.
00:14:31.995 -->
00:14:34.000I was just completely wiped out.
00:14:34.000 -->
00:14:40.600I wasn't a strong swimmer and so that was part of the problem, but that took so much out of me.
00:14:40.600 -->
00:15:28.043So I was kind of like well, okay, I found out that I was like 21 minutes behind the lead women and I'm like okay, so I just got on the bike and, because I hadn't really had an opportunity to eat or drink for a few days because I was so massively sick, I just started feeling better and better and stronger throughout the bike and I'm like wow, I feel like I'm getting my power back and as I ate and drank and everything, I just felt stronger and stronger and by the time I got off the bike I didn't know it, but I'd actually set a record on the bike and I was still 21 minutes behind the leader because Julie Moss ended up riding the bike one minute slower than me.
00:15:28.043 -->
00:15:39.873So, you know, I was still, like you know, not in a front running position, but I went into the transition room where you actually like change your clothes.
00:15:39.873 -->
00:15:48.735You know we had transitions where we wore swimsuits, changed into our clothes, then got off the bike and went into a changing room, changed into clothes.
00:15:48.735 -->
00:15:50.788So our transitions were quite long.
00:15:51.320 -->
00:16:06.489But I got out of T2 when it was out by the hotel at the time it's called the Connoisseur, and I had to run up a hill to start the run and I just I'll never forget it I felt like I hadn't even been on my bike.
00:16:06.489 -->
00:16:13.994I felt like I was starting the marathon with fresh legs and I'm like what the heck?
00:16:13.994 -->
00:16:15.163This feels amazing.
00:16:15.163 -->
00:16:16.972So that was another surprise.
00:16:16.972 -->
00:16:19.280So I was just getting stronger and stronger throughout the day.
00:16:19.802 -->
00:16:21.484I found out that I was 21 minutes behind.
00:16:21.484 -->
00:16:22.065There were some like.
00:16:22.065 -->
00:16:23.225Found out that I was 21 minutes behind.
00:16:23.225 -->
00:16:29.534There were some like, but I was like maybe I was like in sixth place, so that was very inspiring.
00:16:29.534 -->
00:16:44.289By the time I got into mile six, I was in second place behind Julie Moss and I started 21 minutes behind Julie at the start of the run and my attitude was just go my pace.
00:16:44.289 -->
00:16:45.904I know what I need to do today.
00:16:45.904 -->
00:16:46.869I've trained for this.
00:16:46.869 -->
00:16:55.225I'm going to believe in my own pacing and nutrition and I'm just going to go out there and do my best and hope it's good enough to win.
00:16:56.486 -->
00:17:02.668I think I'm right in saying that you overturned the biggest margin of in the world championship history.
00:17:02.668 -->
00:17:06.502I think that 21 minutes is the greatest that anyone's come back from.
00:17:06.502 -->
00:17:11.011At what point did you think actually I could potentially win this?
00:17:11.011 -->
00:17:16.608And then, what was your experience of that incredible finish line moment?
00:17:17.410 -->
00:17:20.981this changed for me when I got to see Julie for the first time.
00:17:20.981 -->
00:17:31.144So Julie was leading, I, and at mile 18, there's a great big Bud Light inflatable can.
00:17:31.144 -->
00:17:37.884It was two story high because at the at that time Bud Light was the title sponsor, so 80s.
00:17:37.884 -->
00:17:46.196And so I'm running towards the Bud Light can and Julie is now turning around.
00:17:46.196 -->
00:17:59.085Now she's got eight miles to go and I'm like, as Julie's approaching me, I'm like, oh, she does not look good, like I could see it in her posture.
00:17:59.085 -->
00:18:13.267She was, you know, kind of shuffling along and I'm like, hmm, that kind of gave me, like, wow, okay, I looked at, I looked at my watch, you know, caught a little, you know kind of shuffling along and I'm like, hmm, that kind of gave me like, wow, okay, I looked at my watch, you know, caught a little, you know, looked at my watch, said okay, I'm going to see how long it takes me to get there.
00:18:13.267 -->
00:18:20.010And after I came back to that same point, I'm like, wow, eight miles to go and I'm eight minutes down.
00:18:20.010 -->
00:18:31.952So I made up a lot of time and I felt great and I thought Julie so, but I made a decision at that point.
00:18:31.952 -->
00:18:33.836I'm sure she made a decision, a point.
00:18:33.836 -->
00:18:38.373At that point I think Julie was like, oh, wow, I better pick up my pace.
00:18:38.373 -->
00:18:48.050And I'm like, oh, I feel great, I'm gonna keep doing what I'm doing because you know, I didn't want to blow up.
00:18:48.050 -->
00:18:51.934So, anyway, the race continues on.
00:18:52.336 -->
00:19:04.050Julie has a helicopter on her and I could see that like at one point I had a after the men's race finish that there's another helicopter out there and I'm like, oh, our helicopters are getting closer together.
00:19:04.050 -->
00:19:09.009But that was the only time that I could like see where she was, because no one.
00:19:09.009 -->
00:19:13.428There's no camera crew on me, there's only one camera crew out there.
00:19:13.428 -->
00:19:16.671Because they didn't care that much about the women's race at all.
00:19:16.671 -->
00:19:24.737It had been covered as a men's race and they would roll the women's finish at the credits, so they'd never really covered a woman's race before.
00:19:24.737 -->
00:19:33.472So I could see where Julie was and I'm like, wow, I feel like I'm gaining on her, because I could see from a distance where her helicopter was.
00:19:33.472 -->
00:19:37.415But I didn't have any idea that she was coming unglued.
00:19:38.965 -->
00:19:53.431So the next big moment came as I'm, you know, running my own race when I got to Hot Corner, when I got to Ali'i Drive, it was now dark and I was so excited to be there.
00:19:53.431 -->
00:19:55.215But I'm like, oh, I haven't caught her yet.
00:19:55.215 -->
00:19:57.553And now I know I only have a quarter mile to go.
00:19:57.553 -->
00:20:04.237I had no idea that Julie had just you know, she'd been walking and going.
00:20:04.237 -->
00:20:05.338How far back is she?
00:20:05.338 -->
00:20:12.195And I saw this on Rival Sports, that's how I know that but I had no idea that she was suffering or coming unglued.
00:20:12.195 -->
00:20:27.236So I got to Hot Corner and that's the point where Julie fell for the first time and everyone at Hot Corner had seen and witnessed this terribly sad falling of Julie on the ground.
00:20:27.236 -->
00:20:28.938It took her so long to get back up.
00:20:28.938 -->
00:20:31.760I think it took a minute and a half to get back up off the ground.
00:20:38.125 -->
00:20:40.111So when I get to Hot Corner I'm so excited I'm still giving up hope I can catch her.
00:20:40.111 -->
00:20:47.951But I get to hot corner and I expect people to be like cheering for me and people were just like solemn, like no one was really clapping.
00:20:47.951 -->
00:20:51.946They just witnessed probably one of the most emotional things I've ever seen.
00:20:51.946 -->
00:20:55.708And so then I'm like, well, this is odd.
00:20:55.708 -->
00:21:01.268And I go around the corner and then someone yelled out from the crowd hey, you can still catch her.
00:21:01.268 -->
00:21:04.914And I'm like what does that mean?
00:21:04.914 -->
00:21:10.555But it gave me some type of an adrenaline rush, like I had already gone through the whole process.
00:21:10.555 -->
00:21:11.817Am I going fast enough?
00:21:11.817 -->
00:21:13.170Is this as fast as I can go?
00:21:13.170 -->
00:21:13.972And I thought I was.
00:21:13.972 -->
00:21:21.751And when this person from the crowd shouted out to me that I could still catch her, I just got some extra.
00:21:21.751 -->
00:21:36.980I got like a turbo boost and I think I just picked up my legs higher and I strided faster and I just that gift that someone gave me of encouragement like helped propel me to the finish line.
00:21:38.066 -->
00:21:42.176So I ended up running down about the quarter mile to go.
00:21:42.176 -->
00:21:43.709I'm still running, still.
00:21:43.709 -->
00:21:45.714No, julie, still think I'm in second place.
00:21:45.714 -->
00:21:49.174And all of a sudden I had to stop because it was dark.
00:21:49.174 -->
00:21:54.728There were bright lights in the trees that were mounted by ABC and I couldn't see a thing.
00:21:54.728 -->
00:21:57.299And all of a sudden I stopped and I'm like this is weird.
00:21:57.299 -->
00:22:02.134Like there's a camera crew right on me, like I could touch the ABC truck, but where's the?
00:22:02.134 -->
00:22:03.986I had to stop and say where's the finish line.
00:22:04.606 -->
00:22:10.355And the ABC camera crew had just, we had just unknowingly passed Julie.
00:22:10.355 -->
00:22:11.938I had unknowingly passed Julie.
00:22:11.938 -->
00:22:15.490She's on the ground surrounded by people and I didn't see her.
00:22:15.490 -->
00:22:19.505So I'm just stopping and I happened to stop right on the finish line.
00:22:19.806 -->
00:22:24.965The truck pulls away, they pull up the finish banner and they had already announced Julia's winner.
00:22:24.965 -->
00:22:37.307Like the last time she started sprinting and I didn't know that, I didn't hear that, but she was only, you know, 25 yards from the finish line and that's where she fell for the last time.
00:22:37.307 -->
00:22:55.056I passed her unknowingly, got to the finish line and they just like held up the finish tape and told me that I was an Ironman world champion and I'm like I got so excited You've probably seen the video or the photos and I'm jumping up and down with my arm over my head and I'm so excited taking it all in and that.
00:22:55.056 -->
00:22:58.199But then I'm like but wait, like where's Julie?
00:22:58.199 -->
00:23:00.567So I had no idea what had happened.
00:23:00.567 -->
00:23:10.972And then I learned it all after the joy and excitement of being told I won, when I thought I was coming in for second well, you must.
00:23:11.032 -->
00:23:17.673You must also be the only person that's ever won the Ironman World Championship without actually knowing's ever won the Ironman World Championship without actually knowing you've won the Ironman World Championship.
00:23:18.365 -->
00:23:19.691Exactly, exactly.
00:23:19.691 -->
00:23:33.193And then Julie and I still have the smallest margin of victory at the Ironman World Championship 29 seconds, which is amazing that that is held at World Championships all these years.
00:23:34.924 -->
00:23:39.856I mean, if any listener is listening to this and has not seen this footage on youtube, you absolutely must.
00:23:39.856 -->
00:23:40.666I mean it's just.
00:23:40.666 -->
00:23:42.651I mean it's the iconic moment, isn't it?
00:23:42.651 -->
00:23:43.874And and and?
00:23:43.874 -->
00:23:48.973Ultimately, it was that moment that got mark allen into racing and becoming the greatest of all time.
00:23:48.973 -->
00:24:11.976Arguably, that moment is so iconic in the sport and it captured the imagination of so many people, but ultimately, it was actually the footage of julie that created that iconic moment, wasn't it so I suppose the question I wanted to ask you was you ended up as the winner of that race, but all the attention went to julie, and what happened to julie and her battling to get over that finish line.
00:24:11.976 -->
00:24:16.209Given the choice, which, which would you take?
00:24:16.209 -->
00:24:24.028The, the, the kind of the, the iconic conversation piece, or the win for the Ironman World Championship?
00:24:25.029 -->
00:24:29.626there has never, ever even been one doubt in my mind the win, the win, the win, 100%.
00:24:29.626 -->
00:24:30.308I worked really hard for that win.
00:24:30.308 -->
00:24:30.990I trained really well for the win.
00:24:30.990 -->
00:24:31.511The win, a hundred percent.
00:24:31.511 -->
00:24:33.175I worked really hard for that win.
00:24:33.175 -->
00:24:36.905I trained really well for the win, so did Julie, and it just.
00:24:36.905 -->
00:24:40.455It just happened to like that's how it turned out on that race day.
00:24:41.065 -->
00:24:46.157But you know, I really feel like we shared the iconic moment.
00:24:46.157 -->
00:24:56.698I don't care about the attention, you know like people will even leave me out of an entire conversation of the 1982 world championship finish and talk about Julie.
00:24:56.698 -->
00:25:07.320I don't have a problem with that, because I feel like I went out there and helped create an iconic finish.
00:25:07.320 -->
00:25:10.614That's the thing you can't really extract.
00:25:10.614 -->
00:25:12.146We were racing.
00:25:12.247 -->
00:25:24.810So to take Julie out of the equation or me out of the equation, the reason that she pushed herself to the point of crawling and falling was because she was trying to win that race as much as I was.
00:25:24.810 -->
00:25:36.130She wanted to win that race and she was pushing herself because she knew that I was on her heels, and so we brought out our fastest race out of each other that day.
00:25:36.130 -->
00:25:44.156You know, could have easily been Julia, could have easily been me one way or the other, but the fact that we were racing you know this, you know this was.
00:25:44.156 -->
00:25:47.128This was a race, not just.
00:25:47.128 -->
00:25:49.372I want to get to the finish.
00:25:49.372 -->
00:26:03.682So I feel that we shared an iconic moment, important to the history of our sport, and I'm totally fine with you know, julie getting that attention.
00:26:03.682 -->
00:26:05.067It was so dramatic and beautiful.
00:26:05.067 -->
00:26:07.192I love part of it with her.
00:26:07.755 -->
00:26:18.971It's just amazing to watch that back and actually when I watched it in the early days of myself doing Ironman, that was just like wow, the power of women at that time to like get across the finish line.
00:26:18.971 -->
00:26:23.797So that is just amazing to even go back to today and watch.
00:26:23.797 -->
00:26:25.371What do you think?
00:26:25.371 -->
00:26:25.834That?
00:26:25.834 -->
00:26:31.295That iconic finish and people now to this day going back and watching that.
00:26:31.295 -->
00:26:37.545What do you think that's done for not only the sport of Ironman but for females in particular?
00:26:37.545 -->
00:26:39.712Because I know that really struck me.
00:26:39.712 -->
00:26:42.515So what do you feel that's done for females in sport?
00:26:42.964 -->
00:27:46.999That's one of the greatest things I feel most proud of and that I hold so close to my heart, is knowing that Julie and I inspired so many women to go out there and try and find something impossible and find a way to get to a start line and find a way to make it your dream, and so I think that has been like one of the greatest things that I know we both share and take away from that, because we woke up people off their couches like that coverage inspired people who would never have thought of doing a triathlon, let alone Ironman, and people like, well, she looks like my next-door neighbor or you know, if she can do it, I can do it and I and I think that's what really started getting men and women like out of their living rooms and on the start lines, and so to be a part of that movement is, for me, one of the greatest parts of my little contribution.
00:27:49.067 -->
00:27:49.768I totally agree.
00:27:49.768 -->
00:27:54.759I think it's been a massive, a massive contribution to the sport, certainly with females in Ironman.
00:27:54.759 -->
00:28:04.025So my background, as you may know, is I'm a dietician and nutritionist and I would love to know what did you do back then in terms of sports nutrition.
00:28:04.025 -->
00:28:04.906So what did you?
00:28:04.906 -->
00:28:11.078Because you were saying you just you know, you'd had this period of 48 hours or more, like you know, with a food poisoning.
00:28:11.078 -->
00:28:13.252You hadn't eaten anything, but you were getting stronger over the race.
00:28:18.664 -->
00:28:21.090So, more like you know, with a food poisoning, you hadn't eaten anything but you were getting stronger over the race.
00:28:21.090 -->
00:28:22.474So what did you eat and drink during that time, during the race?
00:28:22.474 -->
00:28:24.559And and just to go back to that point, I did later learn that I did not have food poisoning.
00:28:24.559 -->
00:28:29.368I had exhibited the same signs of food poisoning massively.
00:28:29.368 -->
00:28:54.417But the same thing happened in 1983 at exactly the same timing, and it was a case of nurse, and I had been like mad, like I thought I was calm but apparently I wasn't, so I thought I didn't figure that out until it happened with the same timing, wednesday night, thursday morning, massive, yeah.
00:28:54.417 -->
00:28:59.855So anyway, got it, people, you got to, really Did you find a way to beat that, those nerves.
00:28:59.894 -->
00:29:01.307Later on, Did you sub, did?
00:29:01.307 -->
00:29:03.315Was there something that helped you solve that problem?
00:29:04.338 -->
00:29:10.932It was really, really hard for me because I would feel that I was calm, but internally I wasn't.
00:29:10.932 -->
00:29:19.211Like I would just go down, walk down to, like you know, to dig me beach, and like I'd start feeling, oh my God.
00:29:19.211 -->
00:29:21.375So it's, you know, the pressure.
00:29:21.375 -->
00:29:36.240The pressure to win and the pressure to want to win is so difficult to deal with and, uh, I didn't overcome it until when I came back in 2012.
00:29:36.701 -->
00:29:58.175Even when I came back in 2003, which we might talk about later as, like I'd taken 15 years off of racing but I wanted to come back as, like this is Iron Mom right, and I was approached by I think at the time it was NBC Sports to do a package, because they're Julie and I both decided to come back as moms and I said you know what?
00:29:58.175 -->
00:30:17.411I can't, please don't cover me, because I have a really bad case of nerves and I'm doing this for my children, like I want them to see me train, I want them to see me sacrifice, I want them to learn the life lessons, but I'm afraid, if you put the TV on me and that that will add too much pressure.
00:30:17.411 -->
00:30:23.189And so that was my first experience of saying, okay, don't, you know you have nothing.
00:30:23.189 -->
00:30:24.733You're not going to win this thing.
00:30:24.733 -->
00:30:26.405You're here for your family.
00:30:26.405 -->
00:30:36.710I never slept the night before the race, but I didn't have the massive nerves, so I was able to overcome it by taking off the pressure of winning.
00:30:37.432 -->
00:30:39.655Yeah, so, so, like, so important.
00:30:39.655 -->
00:30:43.730You mentioned there about your comeback in 2003 and then 2012.
00:30:43.730 -->
00:30:44.511Is that is that right?
00:30:44.511 -->
00:30:48.988Yeah, so when you'd been out to sport, you'd had a family.
00:30:48.988 -->
00:30:54.326What made you kind of make that decision that you really want to get back into the sport?
00:30:55.709 -->
00:31:01.266I never wanted to leave the sport and I felt that I never really did Like through the 80s.
00:31:01.266 -->
00:31:07.875I had, you know, I think I did six Ironmans from like 82 to 88, with my PR in 88.
00:31:07.875 -->
00:31:12.128And I always felt like an Ironman triathlete.
00:31:12.128 -->
00:31:16.578Like there was never a time where I, like took off my Ironman hat.
00:31:16.578 -->
00:31:18.813It was just like I am an Ironman.
00:31:18.813 -->
00:31:21.113I live my life like an Ironman.
00:31:21.204 -->
00:31:53.151I live my life by the values and the dreams and the hopes and ambitions and community, and I like shared that with my children, kept it as a standard for myself and the one thing that I always kept with me from my very first race was the feeling that I could do really hard things and I wanted to do really hard things and that was my life goal to know that I had to keep my fitness and my mental toughness, to know that at any point any day.
00:31:53.151 -->
00:32:03.451If someone asked me, kathleen, you're going to have to get up in the morning and do an Ironman, I always wanted to say yes and that has stayed with me.
00:32:03.451 -->
00:32:06.315Like I want to have the mentality and the fitness.
00:32:06.315 -->
00:32:13.596I don't train like I'm doing an Ironman, but I have the gift now that that mental toughness and the lifestyle fitness to be able to say yeah, I could do.
00:32:13.596 -->
00:32:18.057That gift now, that that mental toughness and the lifestyle fitness to be able to say yeah, I could do that and that's been huge for me.
00:32:19.265 -->
00:32:28.739I think it's absolutely brilliant and I know when we were chatting in Kona, you also talked about how amazing the community was that are around the people.
00:32:28.739 -->
00:32:33.512Just tell me a little bit about that before I've got a question, a sort of follow-up question for it.
00:32:33.512 -->
00:32:38.126But what, what, what does that community mean to you and and what have you learned about that community?
00:32:39.088 -->
00:33:02.714that community is one of the strongest, most inspiring, collaborative, supportive community you can ever be a part of and throughout my life, I've gone through some really glorious and joyful moments and, like everybody you know, like a part of and throughout my life, I've gone through some really glorious and joyful moments and, like everybody you know, like a lot of people, have had some really difficult hardships and things to overcome in many ways.
00:33:02.714 -->
00:33:13.938And when I was at my lowest point after going through a divorce in 2010, I mean, boy, I really hit a low point emotionally.
00:33:13.938 -->
00:33:26.914Physically, I actually honestly I couldn't get a grip on like the mental anguish and losing weight, like to a point where I just thought, oh my God, I might die.
00:33:26.914 -->
00:33:31.852It was, it was very dire and I thought I have to do something to.
00:33:31.852 -->
00:33:33.075I couldn't get a grip on it.
00:33:33.075 -->
00:33:41.987I had to do something to like change my life and find my touchstone of empowerment because, I don't know, I just got hit really hard.
00:33:42.147 -->
00:34:00.174So I thought, well, I had this back surgery, so I thought I could never do an Ironman again, but it was at a time where I thought I have to focus on what I can do and I know that I can swim and I can know that I can bike, but I didn't for years.
00:34:00.174 -->
00:34:02.276I thought I had given up my dream of Ironman.
00:34:02.276 -->
00:34:05.259So I thought I can walk, I can walk the run.
00:34:05.259 -->
00:34:17.510So like I need to do this Ironman, like I need that sense of empowerment, I need the feeling like I'm doing something that resonates with me, to my core.
00:34:17.510 -->
00:34:23.987And so I decided to go back and sign up for another Ironman and bring myself back to life.
00:34:23.987 -->
00:34:25.532And it truly did.
00:34:25.532 -->
00:34:28.442It was transformative, brought me back to life.
00:34:28.442 -->
00:34:35.177I got healthy again, I flourished, and it was because of the community there.
00:34:35.177 -->
00:34:40.715Like anyone, every friend, anyone that's ever done an Ironman, they are your friend for life.
00:34:40.715 -->
00:34:43.048Anyone in the community would do anything for you.
00:34:43.048 -->
00:34:50.536And so I immediately had that community again and it was absolutely the best decision I ever made.
00:34:51.565 -->
00:34:57.213Amazing, and I think I'm right in saying that was the year that you then ended up doing it with Julie, isn't it?
00:34:57.213 -->
00:35:09.568And so what was it like to go back and race as friends rather than competitors and kind of, yeah, what did that whole race and journey to the start line mean to you?
00:35:10.811 -->
00:35:31.757That was one of the most magnificent races for me for so many reasons, and when I decided to go back and made that decision to do Ironman, I thought immediately of like oh my gosh, I heard Julie had moved to San Diego and so it was just like.
00:35:31.757 -->
00:35:33.438Such an incredible opportunity.
00:35:33.438 -->
00:35:34.146So I called Rep.
00:35:34.146 -->
00:35:38.373I'm like hey, julie, I'm going to do Ironman in 2012.
00:35:38.373 -->
00:35:40.905Like, would you, would you want to do it with me?
00:35:40.905 -->
00:35:48.405And she's like oh, no, no, no, I'm retired, do not want to do Ironman, but I would love to train with you.
00:35:48.405 -->
00:35:50.090That sounds amazing.
00:35:50.090 -->
00:35:53.338I'd love to support you on your journey and I'd love to train with you.
00:35:53.338 -->
00:35:55.791So we had this most incredible for like.
00:35:55.811 -->
00:35:59.543For the first time in our lives, we became friends.
00:35:59.543 -->
00:36:02.454We had never had an opportunity to be friends.
00:36:02.454 -->
00:36:05.367We lived in different, usually lived in different places.
00:36:05.367 -->
00:36:07.112We're doing different things in our lives.
00:36:07.112 -->
00:36:16.688So it was such a beautiful full circle opportunity for us to go from rivals, because the media loved to paint us as rivals.
00:36:16.728 -->
00:36:21.057Like every time we'd race, it would be like oh, you know let's, you know who's?
00:36:21.057 -->
00:36:22.550So it's always that.
00:36:22.550 -->
00:37:12.934But that wasn't really how it was for us, and so we were just so happy to have this opportunity to like become friends and then over over time, julie got so excited about it that she decided to to race again, and that's when things really blew up for both of us, because our community and Ironman embraced us and we had like these glorious sponsorships that year and it was just so much fun and we were put into the spotlight together and had just such a beautiful platform to share our story, our new story, our new chapter, with the world and like inspire people again in a different way, and so that was just a beautiful, beautiful opportunity.
00:37:13.855 -->
00:37:17.838What did it feel like to kind of come back, having had a family?
00:37:17.838 -->
00:37:37.295Like you know, for those people out there and there's so many women, certainly of my age, that have kind of come out of sport, been racing Ironman at a high level, come out and never really quite get back into it Like any advice that you would have in terms of really busy mums that are athletes trying to get back in and a balance you know as well.
00:37:38.077 -->
00:37:46.896Yeah, it's so hard to find that work life family balance and try to put our own you know, our our own wants and goals in there.
00:37:47.338 -->
00:38:04.731I just found that I had to get up so early, you know, just getting up super early in the morning, like before anyone was up, and doing workouts, and then doing workouts when the kids were at school, and just like not carving out more time than you need.
00:38:04.731 -->
00:38:15.967You know, just like I remembered, I kind of waited to go back in 2003 until I had all three of my kids in the same school so that I could really make it work.
00:38:15.967 -->
00:38:20.077So that's that's what I did when I came back in 2003.
00:38:20.077 -->
00:38:35.166I just knew it was going to be a big juggling match to try to put all the pieces together, because the kids were also doing all their extracurricular activities and driving to schools and doing stuff, and so it was a balancing act.
00:38:35.166 -->
00:38:50.467But I did it early in the morning and on my trainer and, you know, on a weekend day, you know, I got a babysitter and, you know, did the training that I needed, you know, for a few hours to get the long rides in.
00:38:52.170 -->
00:38:57.239I guess all those years of you know this routine that you have as an athlete.
00:38:57.239 -->
00:39:03.025I guess you then put that routine around your family and the training just extra layers, isn't it?
00:39:03.025 -->
00:39:14.014What sort of any advice that you'd have for people that are still doing endurance events, because many people actually, you know this spans, you know decades, doesn't it for people in terms of sports.
00:39:14.014 -->
00:39:21.291But what you know any advice that you'd have the people to really kind of keep in the best health in terms of endurance sports.
00:39:21.331 -->
00:39:41.231You know, as you're getting older in a sport, yes, I think that continuing training throughout life like just because you finished your Ironman or your 70.3 or your Olympic race or your whatever you did, whatever your goal was your marathon just because you finished it doesn't mean that you should stop training altogether.
00:39:41.231 -->
00:39:53.822So I think it's really important after the, after the big goals, even if you don't have any big goals, you know, keep it as a lifestyle, like embrace it but make it work, like you don't always have to swim, bike and run.
00:39:53.822 -->
00:40:06.990Maybe you're just going to run for an hour, maybe you're just going to swim and bike or be on your trainer, but try to incorporate the training that you loved and enjoyed to do for your big events into your lifestyle, even even one hour a day.
00:40:06.990 -->
00:40:15.266And you know it, if we break it down like that, it's has to be kind of manageable and bite-sized so you can for sure get it done.
00:40:15.266 -->
00:40:22.708So I've just tried to maintain, you know, a level of fitness, doing something throughout my life.
00:40:24.090 -->
00:40:26.836And psychologically with that sort of same problem.
00:40:26.836 -->
00:40:50.585I see friends and hear stories of people where, where you know like particularly as somebody that was winning races, I've never had that problem, but like those people that are used to finishing on the podiums and then they get to a point where their motivation they lose motivation because they're not going to be on the podium and yet you've come back with a very different mindset in those other races.
00:40:50.585 -->
00:41:00.349Have you got any advice for the sort of psychology of those people that want to carry on racing but need to find a different reason because it's not necessarily about being on the podium?
00:41:01.150 -->
00:41:01.391right.
00:41:01.391 -->
00:41:20.942I mean I was on the podium throughout the 80s and then when I came back like to do my like the iron mom race and and that I had some back issues, I will never be a competitive athlete now just because of my spine, but I can jog, walk whatever.
00:41:20.942 -->
00:41:26.532So I have given up like being on the podium but I don't care, like that's not what drives me.
00:41:26.532 -->
00:41:35.800What drives me is the feeling that I get from the training and the racing and the community.
00:41:35.800 -->
00:41:44.813It's not just like, oh, I need to do this for my fitness, it's something that truly that I truly love and I love sharing with others.
00:41:44.965 -->
00:41:54.175And so it's if you can find your, you know, the passion for what you do and just be cognizant of how does that make me feel?
00:41:54.175 -->
00:42:00.927How do I feel when I'm out there with my friends at the pool or, you know, on a bike ride or on a run or by myself?
00:42:00.927 -->
00:42:03.311How do I feel after that workout?
00:42:03.311 -->
00:42:04.735I mean I feel great.
00:42:04.735 -->
00:42:28.713I love how training makes me feel, and then there's nothing like a race, a race of any distance, with the energy, the community, and so I absolutely love, I love racing and it's really basically the way it makes me feel and it's just such a positive thing for me, it's empowering, it's energizing.
00:42:28.713 -->
00:42:37.153When I'm training and racing and like even in everyday life and I don't have a goal, I just feel like I'm just firing on all cylinders.
00:42:37.153 -->
00:42:56.737I feel really alive and so I would just welcome everybody to kind of like try to find that for themselves, like the joy and the simplicity of doing something so invigorating and unique because you coach and mentor.
00:42:56.797 -->
00:42:57.619now is that correct?
00:42:57.619 -->
00:43:09.746Yeah and um, I mean just the story that you've told, and you know there's so many parts for me that's come out of this story that you've been telling already in terms of you know, you've got to deal with the unexpected, you just got to keep going.
00:43:09.746 -->
00:43:12.269You've got to keep going, you've got to pick yourself up, you've got to carry on.
00:43:12.269 -->
00:43:25.648You know that mindset how do you help mentor the coaches that you have, like, how do you help them to, from a psychological point of view, really kind of get into their mindset?
00:43:26.268 -->
00:43:28.213Yeah, I mean, I love coaching.
00:43:28.213 -->
00:43:40.197This has just been such a wonderful opportunity for me to be working at Tridot, which is absolutely the best training platform in the world, and I feel so grateful that I have this and I was able to like find it late in my life.
00:43:40.197 -->
00:43:47.318It was because of Tridot and its platform that I'm able to do this, because the training it's world class.
00:43:47.318 -->
00:43:50.074It's something I couldn't create as a human.
00:43:50.074 -->
00:44:14.097So I love the connections that I can make with my athletes athletes of all walks of life, and I just love that, with different goals, different walks of life, having the opportunity to connect with them and listen to them and find out what their goals are, and so with every athlete that I've had, I'm just like, I love them and I love my job because we have a connection.
00:44:14.217 -->
00:44:47.034And then because I have so much experience in so many different parts of my life you know, from being a college student to being, you know, to working and being a mother and being a single mom and being a senior and being a grandma and having kids and, grant, it's just, I have a rich experience of life and then a long, a long period of time you know, 45 years that I've been racing and so I think there's it's been really fun because I can connect across so many different levels and find out what do people need.
00:44:47.324 -->
00:44:47.806You know what.
00:44:47.806 -->
00:44:49.693What kind of inspiration do they want?
00:44:49.693 -->
00:44:59.757What kind of positivity can I feed them and connect to them in addition to you know just the miles and minutes and the and some and the racing.
00:44:59.757 -->
00:45:12.704So that's my favorite part of my job is finding the connection where someone's like, wow, like they, they feel like I've made a difference in their life and I've made a difference in their training.
00:45:12.704 -->
00:45:14.108I've made a difference in their race and that's made a difference in their training.
00:45:14.108 -->
00:45:17.532I've made a difference in their race and that's my whole intent and that's my whole purpose.
00:45:17.532 -->
00:45:19.014I wouldn't do it for any other reason.
00:45:20.701 -->
00:45:22.443And I guess with I know you mentioned TriDot there.
00:45:22.443 -->
00:45:30.954I guess with you know you're able to be that human being and be human with you know every athlete you know telling that story.
00:45:30.954 -->
00:45:38.853Then what do you still see, though, as the biggest mistakes that athletes like continue to make?
00:45:38.853 -->
00:45:40.387You must see a pattern.
00:45:40.387 -->
00:45:46.561Tell us what that might be a pattern.
00:45:46.581 -->
00:45:47.161Tell us what that might be.
00:45:47.161 -->
00:45:52.534I'd say one thing that comes to mind is that the training that we're doing at Tridot is different than people, than traditional training.
00:45:52.534 -->
00:46:04.831I mean we are doing just perfectly optimized sessions are prescribed for the athletes and I think it's been hard for some athletes to trust that they're doing enough.
00:46:04.831 -->
00:46:09.043They think that they still have that mindset like more is better.
00:46:09.043 -->
00:46:24.230And I and I try to tell my athletes like if you do what is specifically prescribed especially for you and you do it in the way it's prescribed and you're consistent, do all the training you're prescribed exactly as it's prescribed.
00:46:24.230 -->
00:46:26.525I mean, we may tweak things here and there.
00:46:26.644 -->
00:46:34.626Obviously, you know people are going to have injuries, they're going to have sickness, they're going to have family life come up, but but this is the best training in the world, this is it right here.
00:46:35.509 -->
00:46:39.581And you know, I think, that most, you know most of my athletes do.
00:46:39.581 -->
00:46:45.813But it's like I've seen some struggle with like oh, I don't feel like that's a long enough run or a long enough bike where I need to do more.
00:46:45.813 -->
00:46:57.228And I find that you know, just as Toridot suggests, if you do the right training right, you will have the most success and that is and that is what I find.
00:46:57.228 -->
00:47:18.047And then beyond that, I would say that sometimes athletes will think about getting a coach, but then not get a coach until like the last minute and you really need to have like go through the development phase for your athletes and then the race prep phase, and it's better than nothing.
00:47:18.047 -->
00:47:30.811But I'd say, if you're thinking about getting a coach, you know, do it earlier in your training than just kind of like waiting, because there's so much we can do in the development phase to to get them really ready.
00:47:31.132 -->
00:47:55.173So you know, getting coached near the last minute is okay but not ideal and I going back to what you were saying about tridor, funnily enough I was chatting with the guys I swim with in, you know, in having a coffee afterwards this morning saying exactly the same thing, saying you know, one of the things that I've taken from TriDot is I'm training less hours, I'm getting injured less and yet my performance is getting better.
00:47:55.173 -->
00:47:57.237So I absolutely agree.
00:47:57.237 -->
00:47:59.382I think it's brilliant.
00:47:59.382 -->
00:48:07.492For that I wanted to sort of transition, because you helped Mike Levine, a stage four cancer warrior, get back into triathlon and inspire others.
00:48:07.492 -->
00:48:13.045What did that journey with Mike teach you about the power of endurance, sport beyond competition?
00:48:14.239 -->
00:48:21.143Oh, you know, that whole journey is probably one of the most rewarding things that I've ever done.
00:48:21.143 -->
00:48:23.250You know, outside of my family, obviously.
00:48:23.250 -->
00:48:39.025But the power of sport is real, it's tangible, it literally extended Mike Levine's life, inspired thousands of other people, allowed us to mentor people.
00:48:39.025 -->
00:48:44.998It was the most powerful thing that I've ever done and it all unfolded right before my eyes.
00:48:44.998 -->
00:48:50.514I was started out just as an opportunity to meet Mike, who was dying.
00:48:50.514 -->
00:48:53.844He had stage four pancreatic cancer, been on a couch waiting to die.
00:48:53.844 -->
00:48:58.795He was 69 years old and he had done the.
00:48:58.795 -->
00:49:08.224He had done the October 82 Ironman, after having been inspired by my race and Julie's race and went on to be a phenomenal athlete.
00:49:08.224 -->
00:49:12.295And but then in his later years he got pancreatic cancer.
00:49:12.597 -->
00:49:20.887Well, bob Babbitt was putting together a little party, kind of like a going away party, goodbye party because he was getting ready to die and he really wanted to meet some triathletes and have some support.
00:49:20.887 -->
00:49:24.277So I was supposed to go to this party at his house and meet him, because he really wanted to meet some triathletes and have some support.
00:49:24.277 -->
00:49:31.402So I was supposed to go to this party at his house and meet him because he really wanted to meet me and I got really sick and so I couldn't go to the party.
00:49:31.402 -->
00:49:36.240But I called him up and said I'm sorry, I'm so sick, but let me meet you and your wife for coffee.
00:49:36.240 -->
00:49:41.284And you know what, why don't you get off that couch and like, let's go for a little bike ride?
00:49:41.284 -->
00:49:48.972No, and so he was so excited that he actually got off his couch.
00:49:48.972 -->
00:50:04.675He went and bought a new bike and he and his wife show up at coffee at Panikin in Lucadia, and I was just so delighted to meet him and we went out on a bike ride and he hadn't done anything.
00:50:04.675 -->
00:50:05.137We went on a bike ride.
00:50:05.137 -->
00:50:13.202He rode for almost an hour and we had to stop every five minutes or so and it was the most amazing thing I'd ever seen.
00:50:13.262 -->
00:50:16.711Now, this guy had been a, you know, had been a good athlete, but it had been years.
00:50:16.711 -->
00:50:30.492But the power of sport gives you that purpose, that hope and that community, and that's ultimately what I was able to provide for Mike Levine.
00:50:30.492 -->
00:50:37.230And after that bike ride we had our coffee and I said, hey, mike, you know, would you like to do that again?
00:50:37.230 -->
00:50:38.987And he's like, absolutely.
00:50:38.987 -->
00:50:44.472And I said, well, I'm doing my annual like I'm training for Ironman this year 2017.
00:50:44.472 -->
00:50:46.172I start off my training every year by I'm training for Ironman this year 2017.
00:50:46.172 -->
00:50:56.525I start off my training every year by doing something I call Ironman in minutes, where I swim 2.4 minutes, I ride 112 minutes and I walk 26 minutes.
00:50:56.525 -->
00:50:58.769So I think you could do that.
00:50:58.769 -->
00:51:00.293How would you like to do that?
00:51:00.293 -->
00:51:02.085And he's like that sounds great.
00:51:02.867 -->
00:51:05.317So we had my little event.
00:51:05.317 -->
00:51:07.706We used to be about me kicking off training.
00:51:07.706 -->
00:51:10.918Julie and I would do that, you know, every year together.
00:51:10.918 -->
00:51:12.402It was just something fun I created.
00:51:12.402 -->
00:51:15.632But this year it became about others.
00:51:15.632 -->
00:51:22.735It became about Mike and I ended up making a little plaque ahead of time with my finisher medal from 1982.
00:51:23.336 -->
00:51:28.813And I made a plaque and I'm like this is I'm going to give him an anything is possible award for his inspiration.
00:51:28.853 -->
00:51:30.500So we do the little event.
00:51:30.679 -->
00:51:40.164We have like six people, we go out to lunch afterwards and I present him with this award anything is possible award which was my finisher medal.
00:51:40.865 -->
00:52:04.994And from that day on I got him to start training with me and just little baby steps and after four months we were swimming, biking, running, he was getting off the couch, he was coming back to life through sport and he said, kath, I think I'd like to do Ironman again.
00:52:05.199 -->
00:52:08.210He goes and you breathed the life back into me.
00:52:08.210 -->
00:52:21.304And so when someone tells like, how could you hear those words and not feel like that's the most incredible gift that anyone could ever give you to know that you've made a difference in someone's life.
00:52:21.304 -->
00:52:24.409So we were on this journey.
00:52:24.409 -->
00:52:29.150Suddenly he was not sleeping all day and staying in bed and waiting to die.
00:52:29.150 -->
00:52:48.204He was living and he actually earned a Ironman, gave him an ambassador spot for Ironman that year and it was the most exciting thing that I've ever done in my life, like surprising him with his entry, going through this beautiful journey with him.
00:52:48.204 -->
00:52:57.490And, yeah, so it gave him hope, it gave him purpose, it gave him a reason to get off his bed and it gave him a community that cared and supported him.
00:52:57.490 -->
00:53:00.286So that's the real power.
00:53:01.329 -->
00:53:02.672It is incredible, isn't it?
00:53:02.672 -->
00:53:10.329We had one of the Ironman announcers, paul Kay, on the podcast recently, and those stories are just incredible, aren't they?
00:53:10.329 -->
00:53:19.833It is a sport that brings those stories out in a way that most sports can't, because it is about doing tough things, isn't it?
00:53:19.833 -->
00:53:25.753And I remember Bob Babbitt just saying, when he crossed that finish line, he was never, ever going to be the same person again.
00:53:25.753 -->
00:53:31.313What is it you think that Ironman really captures?
00:53:31.313 -->
00:53:32.742Because it's not quite like.
00:53:32.742 -->
00:53:39.014Ultra running is really tough, but I'm not quite sure it has that same thing.
00:53:39.014 -->
00:53:44.467There's lots of things that are really tough, but I'm not sure that they quite do it in the way that Iron man seems to, somehow.
00:53:44.467 -->
00:53:50.215What is it about it that you think brings in these incredible stories?
00:53:51.480 -->
00:54:11.617I'd say, going back to my decision to be sitting on a seawall, and it was just audacious for me to think I could even do an Iron man, but I think that decision was as transformative as me, like crossing the finish line, just deciding that that's who you're going to be now.
00:54:11.617 -->
00:54:20.425You're going to be a person that goes out to do amazing things and possible things with this other community that you're getting energy and inspiration from.
00:54:20.425 -->
00:54:31.094And I think, also because it involves the three disciplines, and they're disciplines that are familiar to us swimming, bicycling, running, walking.
00:54:31.094 -->
00:54:51.800These are things that most of us worldwide are exposed to, so I think it gives us that feeling like wow, these are things that I'm kind of familiar with and comfortable with, and maybe I can put them all together because it's something that's we grew up riding bikes.
00:54:51.800 -->
00:55:01.592We grew up many of us you know swimming or playing in the pool or going in the ocean, and you know running walking, so I think that's that's part of it.
00:55:03.141 -->
00:55:03.382I think.
00:55:03.382 -->
00:55:16.865I think you're right and, and also as as listening to myself ask the question and listening to you talk about it, there is also the, the, the, the name iron man, the term iron man is actually really powerful, isn't it?
00:55:16.865 -->
00:55:19.291It's like you are an ultra runner.
00:55:19.291 -->
00:55:19.913Well, am I?
00:55:19.913 -->
00:55:20.240You know?
00:55:20.240 -->
00:55:20.922Like it's not.
00:55:20.922 -->
00:55:22.206It's never going to work, is it?
00:55:22.206 -->
00:55:23.952It's not, it's not.
00:55:23.952 -->
00:55:28.929It's like a yeah, you become a different person once you're an iron man.
00:55:28.929 -->
00:55:29.411I think it's.
00:55:29.411 -->
00:55:35.166It's absolutely fascinating and, from a business point of view, I mean, it's marketing genius, isn't it?
00:55:35.166 -->
00:55:37.972It's this absolutely incredible.
00:55:37.972 -->
00:55:49.231So, kathy, we always ask every guest on the podcast for books that have helped them on their journey, or books they find themselves recommending to the people they coach or their friends.
00:55:49.231 -->
00:55:53.123So what books really stand out for you on on your journey?
00:55:53.143 -->
00:56:12.724well, I'm going to go way back into the pioneering because I think it's such an important part of our sport history and I don't want that to be lost, like for all the new people that are coming into the sport or people that just took it up, people that you know, weren't, you know, racing when I was in my 20s as a college student?
00:56:12.724 -->
00:56:14.929You know, you know, 45 years ago.
00:56:14.929 -->
00:56:39.793So I just, I think you know Iron War by Matt Fitzgerald, 100%, like you've just got to read that book, you will learn so much about the, the endurance, motivation, inspiration, getting in the heads of two of the greatest competitors in our sport, to the greatest rivals, and there's so much to be learned from from reading that book.
00:56:39.793 -->
00:56:48.474And it's, I think, if you're truly going to be, you know, an Iron man and a Traglet, you have to really know that story and feel that story.
00:56:49.199 -->
00:56:59.655And then, secondly, I would say another book from back in the day, from back in 1987, written by Mike Plant, my dear, dear, dear friend, iron Will.
00:56:59.655 -->
00:57:07.173Mike Plant is one of the most incredible journalists, photographers.
00:57:07.173 -->
00:57:29.829Well, he, he has passed away and and I just want to honor him by sharing, you know, this book that he wrote which talks about, you know, the early day of triathlon and gets into the heads and minds of the early competitors and describes, describes the Ironman World Championship in such a beautiful way.
00:57:29.829 -->
00:58:02.849And, yeah, we lost a great person in losing Mike Plant, but he does have some other books out there and that's another great one to just really get a feeling for pioneering in our sport, which basically laid the foundation for everything that has come, the gloriousness that's come, and who knew back in the day that it was going to be a multi-billion dollar industry I like we could not have, and an Olympic sport we could never have fathomed that that's brilliant.
00:58:02.909 -->
00:58:07.144No, I agree, and I love Iron War just like an incredible book.
00:58:07.144 -->
00:58:12.668And I'm really pleased you said it actually because I know you're really good friends with Mark Allen and Mark when we had him on the podcast.
00:58:12.668 -->
00:58:19.286He doesn't actually like the book Iron War because it doesn't quite tell the story as he remembers it or as Dave remembers it.
00:58:19.286 -->
00:58:26.451And yet I still think it's such an important book because it tells us and like I get that for them.
00:58:26.451 -->
00:58:38.329Some of the details aren't quite right, but the overriding story is so powerful and Matt Fitzgerald, who we've always had on the podcast, just does a wonderful job of telling that story.
00:58:38.329 -->
00:58:41.181So I'm really pleased that you said that book Iron Will.
00:58:41.463 -->
00:58:44.474I've never read that, so that's immediately going straight onto my brilliant.
00:58:44.474 -->
00:58:45.436Yeah, I don't know, I and Will, I've never read that, so that's immediately going straight onto my brilliant.
00:58:45.436 -->
00:58:48.226Yeah, I don't know, I don't know how I've missed that, but I have.
00:58:48.226 -->
00:58:52.807I do remember seeing it, but I've never read it, so that's going straight onto the reading list.
00:58:52.807 -->
00:58:55.244I am very grateful for that recommendation.
00:58:55.244 -->
00:59:08.577Then the last thing that we do is we get the previous guest to ask the next guest a question without knowing who that question is going to be, and the last guest was Simon Dent, who is an ultra runner and highly successful entrepreneur.
00:59:08.577 -->
00:59:10.961And I think, claire, you've got Simon's question, haven't you?
00:59:11.884 -->
00:59:12.184Yes.
00:59:12.184 -->
00:59:20.045So what's the one fitness or lifestyle habit you wish you'd started earlier in life, and why?
00:59:22.027 -->
00:59:23.891Oh, that's kind of an easy question.
00:59:23.891 -->
00:59:26.677When I was in the, I was never.
00:59:26.677 -->
00:59:29.041I didn't grow up doing organized sports.
00:59:29.041 -->
00:59:37.471I grew up in a time where I watched my brothers, you know, play baseball and football and then I would make them cakes after they won right.
00:59:37.471 -->
00:59:43.367But I was very athletic, you know, climbing trees, playing, going to the beach, but never did organized sports.
00:59:43.367 -->
00:59:51.592But I did have a competitive nature always and didn't realize how strong it was till many years later.
00:59:51.753 -->
01:00:04.414But when I was in the third grade I just decided that I wanted to try out for the swim team with my best friend and she was a year older than me and I was so excited I just thought, oh my gosh, I could be like playing sports, it's amazing.
01:00:04.414 -->
01:00:05.630So I go to the tryouts and I didn so excited I just thought, oh my gosh, I could be like playing a sport, it's amazing.
01:00:05.630 -->
01:00:08.753So I go to the tryouts and I didn't really.
01:00:08.753 -->
01:00:16.121I knew how to play in a pool, but I didn't know how to do lap swimming and so I didn't know that you're supposed to exhale when your face is in the water.
01:00:16.121 -->
01:00:18.302So I'm like holding my breath and struggling.
01:00:18.322 -->
01:00:23.226But I was so excited and it was just like oh no, mccartney, like you're out, you know.
01:00:23.226 -->
01:00:27.130So I was like, oh my God, it's like how did I not make a swim team?
01:00:27.130 -->
01:00:28.791Like I didn't even get a chance.
01:00:28.791 -->
01:00:32.494I think it was like 25 yards and you know that I stunk.
01:00:32.494 -->
01:00:36.577But wow, like my, I'm a, I still.
01:00:36.577 -->
01:00:42.786You know, I'm all constantly working on my swim and I always had to play catch up because I didn't have a swimming background.
01:00:42.786 -->
01:01:00.039No-transcript.
01:01:01.521 -->
01:01:32.610I think that's brilliant because the number of times that we have had you know, people on this podcast we've had done over 150 episodes and the physical point of view building the engine, but the discipline of following a training plan, getting up early, I think there's just, it's just such a brilliant thing.
01:01:32.610 -->
01:01:37.202So I also wish I had done that at an earlier age, for sure.
01:01:37.202 -->
01:01:38.427I think I think it's fantastic.
01:01:38.427 -->
01:01:42.019Um, kathleen, it has been absolutely brilliant.
01:01:42.059 -->
01:01:44.126Chas, and I loved hearing the stories.
01:01:44.126 -->
01:01:53.686I love hearing about what it was like and what that iconic moment was like for you and that kind of build up to it and everything else and what you've done for the sport since.
01:01:53.686 -->
01:02:08.385I think you know it was absolutely amazing to chat to you and some of the other TriDot legends in Kona and I think it's fantastic that you're still embracing the sport and giving back to the sport and and just loving it.
01:02:08.385 -->
01:02:15.527So, um, and I couldn't agree with you more in in the, in the sense of that community is such a brilliant, amazing community.
01:02:15.527 -->
01:02:18.422So, but, thank you, thank you for coming on the podcast.
01:02:18.422 -->
01:02:25.981It's been an absolute privilege and a pleasure and, yeah, keep up the amazing work thank you, charlie, thank you very much, claire.
01:02:26.362 -->
01:02:35.226And I'll see you again soon well, I'm sure you agree that was an amazing conversation with a true legend of the sport, kathleen mccartney.
01:02:35.226 -->
01:02:49.356If you want to find out more, she's kath mccartney at instagram and in the show notes we'll also put her tridot coaching link so that you can track her down if you would like to be coached by Kathleen, or just follow her on her socials.
01:02:49.356 -->
01:02:55.032But, claire, what did you make of that interview with the legend that is Kathleen McCartney?
01:02:55.719 -->
01:02:57.688Well, I was just about to say legend before you said it.
01:02:57.688 -->
01:03:00.166Yeah, like amazing.
01:03:00.166 -->
01:03:14.811I think the video of Julie and Kathleen was actually one of the first things that I watched before I did my first Ironman, and so for me, to you know, us to have this conversation today was just amazing.
01:03:14.811 -->
01:03:32.583And she is so inspiring and I think the thing that really sort of came across to me is this you know, in the 1980s, as she was saying, there were like not very many females in ironman sport, in that kind of sport, and she, her mindset just from the outset was, you know, just get on and do it.
01:03:32.583 -->
01:03:41.150You know, um, and that's what really came across for me is, just expect the unexpected, just pick yourself up, figure it out, get on with it.
01:03:41.150 -->
01:03:46.907Um, and even to this day now, when she's talking to you know, her, her athletes, that it's.
01:03:46.907 -->
01:03:47.409You know.
01:03:47.409 -->
01:03:49.934She's talking about empowerment, having purpose.
01:03:51.119 -->
01:04:14.547So for me, it was, it was really inspirational to hear her story, but also how that has, how Ironman has provided her with different things at different times but coming back to it has continued to offer very different things and really powerful sort of pivots and moments in her life.
01:04:14.547 -->
01:04:17.927I think, yeah, I thought she was absolutely brilliant.
01:04:17.927 -->
01:04:21.704I think I completely agree with the mindset piece and you know that whole.
01:04:21.704 -->
01:04:41.092I mean she obviously went into that first Ironman thinking she had food poisoning, even though later on she knew it wasn't food poisoning, but having that, I say essentially the same symptoms of that by going well, all I can do is control the controllables and and focus on on just getting on and doing what I can do and not giving up.
01:04:41.211 -->
01:04:49.617And I thought that was, I thought that was brilliant and I think the the purpose, hope and community piece that she talked about in terms of you know that really is.
01:04:49.617 -->
01:04:54.728I don't think I've ever heard it verbalized quite that way purpose, hope and community.
01:04:54.728 -->
01:04:56.760Like I love the hope bit.
01:04:56.760 -->
01:05:05.420I like I kind of I would have guessed I would have probably said community and purpose, but hope was yeah, what, what do you make of that?
01:05:06.402 -->
01:05:13.047yeah, I, I, um, I think community is really interesting, because I think there's several parts to an endurance community, isn't there?
01:05:13.047 -->
01:05:28.952There's a community at races, which is very different but supported to a certain degree, um, in girls, sport, um, but either that community that you have with you know your training partners, the groups you go out with, I think that's there's a really strong part there.
01:05:28.952 -->
01:05:36.175Um, hope is is really interesting because I picked up on that as well and I think it's for me.
01:05:36.175 -->
01:05:45.134It's about people having something that's such an a huge challenge, a point in their life when maybe they don't think they can overcome anything.
01:05:45.134 -->
01:05:59.402So that's kind of what I got from it is that literally, you know that if they could do that, yes, it's giving them purpose, but it's giving them hope that you know they can do whatever comes up against them.
01:06:00.865 -->
01:06:05.905So, yeah, that's what I suppose I was just thinking about that and, yeah, I hadn't really thought about it.
01:06:05.905 -->
01:06:10.420But if we think about it in business, you'd say it's like having a moonshot, isn't it?
01:06:10.420 -->
01:06:14.048It's like a moonshot is a single point of focus.
01:06:14.048 -->
01:06:26.751It's a bigger, it's a goal that's so big that you don't know how you're going to do it, but you know why you want to do it and and I think that hope is kind of like well, actually, I'm yeah, it's a look, it's a.
01:06:26.751 -->
01:06:30.291It is something to make a beeline for the future, isn't it?
01:06:30.291 -->
01:06:32.320And I think it makes it much more meaningful.
01:06:32.519 -->
01:06:37.452So, but then, yeah, it's difficult to distinguish between what's hope and what's purpose, isn't it?
01:06:37.452 -->
01:06:40.226Because that kind of yeah, it really got me thinking.
01:06:40.226 -->
01:06:42.309Actually, I also loved that.
01:06:42.309 -->
01:06:49.003When she said the Ironman helps you do hard things, I thought, yeah, that's definitely.
01:06:49.003 -->
01:06:54.492You know you're practicing your resilience in one area.
01:06:54.492 -->
01:07:03.327Even if you're creating the resilience, you know the need for resilience yourself, and then that helps provide you with resilience in other areas where you probably wouldn't choose to need it.
01:07:04.492 -->
01:07:06.735I think actually that comes back to what she was talking about.
01:07:06.735 -->
01:07:09.949You know, balancing family life and getting back into training.
01:07:09.949 -->
01:07:13.603You know the resilience in so many different areas of your life.
01:07:13.603 -->
01:07:19.373But again it comes back to routine and consistency you know she was talking about.
01:07:19.373 -->
01:07:27.492Well, you get up earlier, you know, but you have all that routine and consistency that you've built the whole of your life without a family and then you just have to re.
01:07:27.492 -->
01:07:32.130You know, recreate that, and I guess you know the same is true of of business as well.
01:07:32.130 -->
01:07:36.364You know, I hear many business people say that they don't have time to do any exercise.
01:07:36.364 -->
01:07:45.672But actually it's about how do you, how do you do something on a regular basis and create that routine around your working day.
01:07:46.501 -->
01:07:48.387Do you see the same with nutrition?
01:07:48.387 -->
01:07:50.134Do you see like is?
01:07:50.134 -->
01:07:51.920Because I see it in business coaching.
01:07:51.920 -->
01:07:55.007I don't have time for business coaching, I'm too busy.
01:07:55.007 -->
01:08:02.550Well, you're not going to fix the time problem if you don't go for the coaching to work out how you improve the way that you work.
01:08:02.550 -->
01:08:06.688Is that also a complaint with people in the nutrition world?
01:08:07.570 -->
01:08:17.208Yeah, absolutely, I don't have time to think about it, and that's essentially why often I find people go for a quick fix, a golden bullet, because I don't have time.
01:08:17.208 -->
01:08:20.610And actually that also comes back to consistency.
01:08:20.610 -->
01:08:27.323It's the small things that you do consistently that actually have the biggest impact, you know.
01:08:28.807 -->
01:09:15.760And that also comes back into routine, routine consistency, and actually essentially it saves you time once you've got it in, once you've got it in routine, but absolutely you're absolutely, you're absolutely right, it's the small things you do often that make the biggest difference, not the big things you do occasionally, and whether that's in your business, whether that's in your health and nutrition or whether that's in your training, it's that consistency and having the plan and and I also think that having that consistency I know for me and I and I think I might be saying that kathleen said this it's having that plan and that consistency and that structure just seems to put you in a better mindset as well, as, you know, going through the day knowing you've done the hard thing at the start of it by, you know, doing the exercise.
01:09:15.920 -->
01:09:17.564So, yeah, really powerful.
01:09:17.564 -->
01:09:33.506But I thought it was just wonderful to chat to her about that, about that probably like, if you think about it, iron war and that 1982 moment with julie I mean, and iron war wouldn't have happened if it hadn't been for the julie moss and kathleen mccartney moment.
01:09:33.506 -->
01:09:41.342So, like it is, it was just brilliant to hear, hear that story and and to understand what it was, what it was like for her.
01:09:41.342 -->
01:09:50.152So, yeah, really really amazing to chat to her and a lot, of, a lot of really interesting insights that she, you know that we, that she was able to provide.
01:09:50.152 -->
01:09:54.344So, yeah, another amazing interview for everyone else at home.
01:09:54.344 -->
01:09:57.766Keep on training, thank you.
