EP 3:31 Chemsex Harm Reduction and Homelessness with Thiccums

WEBVTT
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Chemsex.
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Sexualized drug use among men who have sex with men, typically involving methamphetamine, methadrone, and GHB, among others.
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Chemsex misuse is a worldwide epidemic that needs attention, dialogue, and hope for those lost in it, which is the purpose of the Aftermath Podcast.
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Please note the views expressed by the host and guest on this podcast are not to be taken as medical advice, and the content around sex and drug use can be triggering.
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All right, welcome back to the Aftermath Podcast.
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Today is a two-parter.
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So first I want to walk you through some of the newest peer-reviewed research on chemsex recovery.
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Might seem a little boring to you, but I want you to stick with me.
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I'm making it as simple as possible.
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I don't like to listen to a bunch of names and journals and all that stuff either, but this is important.
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Because we're going to look at what is actually working for this very unique, misunderstood, worldwide healthcare crisis.
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You deserve to hear what the research world is saying globally.
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You deserve to know that there are real alternatives beyond abstinence-based approaches.
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One quick note before we start.
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As I said, every study I mentioned today is going to be listed in the show notes.
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Authors, journals, years, all of it.
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So I'm going to keep it simple as we go and just say a study.
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And you can dig into the details yourself if you want them.
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Then, after the research, I have something I am really excited about.
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While I was in LA recently, I recorded a first ever in-person interview, and I could not have picked a better person.
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His name is Thickams.
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DeLong Cray, I think.
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He is a former meth user, currently unhoused, and on his way to changing that.
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And he has built an Instagram page offering services to unhoused people all over the LA area.
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He is truly giving back.
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And Thickams is a product of contingency management.
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It's one of the harm reduction approaches we are going to talk about today.
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You will hear the research and then you will hear it walking around in real life.
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So, what do I mean by abstinence-based approaches?
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I mean the model most of us have accepted as the gospel of recovery.
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Recovery defined as never using again, starting today.
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You stop and then you receive care.
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And as long as you say stopped, you are counted as a success.
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Success gets measured in days from zero, and one use sends you back to the beginning.
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For some men, that route is very valid and that route is right for them.
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It was for me, but based on the research, we are doing you a harsh disservice if we never offer you anything else that might work specifically for you.
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So I'm going to use this term harm reduction to separate these other approaches from abstinence-based ones.
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But as we have learned on this podcast, harm reduction is a spectrum that runs from abstinence all the way to active use.
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So technically, it is all harm reduction.
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That is what this episode is about.
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Today I'm making an argument, and I want to be very precise about this.
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Abstinence keeps its seat at this table.
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The argument is that abstinence is one door in a room that the research, scientific research says has many doors, and specifically for meth.
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Some of the other doors, contingency management, managed use, structured reduction, all of it carry very serious evidence.
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So let's open some of these doors for you.
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When abstinence is the only measure of success, everything short of it gets recorded as failure.
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A man goes from using five days a week to using twice a month, and that's failure?
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No.
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A man who stops injecting, who starts sleeping, who gets his job back, who reconnects with his sister, but all of a sudden he tests positive once in a week in week ten, and he's a failure?
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He has to start over.
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The model does not see who he is and what he's actually doing.
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And that model, what the model can't see, it cannot serve.
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The research has started to see him, though.
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So let me walk you through it.
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Door number one, contingency management.
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If you have never heard the term contingency management, it's very simple.
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You get rewarded, usually a gift card or small voucher, for meeting a recovery goal.
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Most often a drug test that comes back negative for stimulants.
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So that's it.
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Your brain's reward system, that same system that meth hijacked, gets recruited back into your own corner.
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You show up, you test negative, you get rewarded.
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The rewards grow the longer you go.
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Now, I know how that sounds to some people.
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You want to pay people to not use it, really sounds like some kind of a gimmick, but it it sounds like too small to matter against the drug this big.
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But here is what the data says.
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A major review in 2020 looked at 27 studies of contingency management for meth use disorder.
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Twenty-six of the twenty-seven showed reduced meth use.
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Twenty-six out of the twenty-seven.
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And on top of that, people stayed in treatment longer, they attended more sessions, and they took fewer sexual risks.
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The review concluded that clinics treating meth should be offering contingency management.
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Full stop.
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And listen to this part.
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Gay men helped build this evidence.
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Because some of the foundational trials were done specifically with meth-dependent men who have sex with men.
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Back in 2005, a study in Los Angeles worked with meth-dependent gay and bisexual men and found that the men who received contingency management, alone or combined with talk therapy, went longer without using than the men who got talk therapy by itself.
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And those gains held for a full year later.
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If contingency management were a pill, it would be front page news.
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And the tide is turning because in 2023, California became the first state in the nation to get federal approval to cover contingency management through Medicaid.
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It is called the Recovery Incentives Program, and California's own health department describes contingency management as the treatment with the strongest outcomes for stimulant use disorder.
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Reduced use, stopped use, longer time in care.
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In January 2025, the federal government raised the annual incentive cap tenfold to$750 per patient.
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And a study published in 2026 found that even at the higher cap, contingency management is still a bargain for the healthcare system, saving the money.
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It gets results.
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Sit with that.
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After decades of confrontation, of shame, of white knuckling and folding chairs, the behavioral treatment with the strongest evidence for meth turns out to be reward.
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Big surprise.
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A system that says over and over, you can do this.
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Let's focus on your wins, not all on the losses.
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And it's in a language that recut the recovery brain can actually hear.
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You did the thing, and it counts.
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Door number two, reduced use as a real outcome.
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This is where managed use and the tapering live.
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For most of the history of addiction treatment in this country, there was only one finish line.
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Total abstinence.
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Researchers had to measure everything against it.
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Even the FDA has historically wanted abstinence as the benchmark for approving new addiction medications, which sounds pretty rigorous until you realize what it hides because in 2025, the National Institutes of Health shared the results of a huge study.
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Researchers pulled 13 clinical trials, over 2,000 people who had sought treatment for methrococaine and looked at what actually happened to them.
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Three groups emerged from that.
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People who use whose use stayed the same, people who cut way down without stopping, and people who stopped completely.
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And two things jumped out.
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First, more people managed to cut way down, about 18% than managed to stop completely, about 14%.
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Cutting down is simply a rung more men can reach.
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Second, and this is the heart of it, the men who cut down got measurably better.
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Their cravings dropped by 60%, their drug seeking dropped by 41%, their depression eased, their daily lives improved.
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Yes, the men who stopped completely improved.
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Nobody's disputing that.
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And the men who cut down were recovering too, in real time, in real bodies.
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The old model would have marked every one of them that cut down a failure.
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Even the head of the National Institute on Drug Abuse, the most cautious voice in really all of America addiction science, says this way out loud now.
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In 2025, she wrote publicly that across study after study, people who reduce their use show real improvements, less depression, less cravings, fewer legal problems, better relationships, better sleep, cutting down counts.
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In 2021, researchers pulled two clinical trials, over 200 people in treatment for Methuse disorder, and asked a question almost nobody had bothered to ask.
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Which outcomes during treatment actually predict how well someone is living years later?
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And here's what they found out.
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Complete abstinence during treatment did not predict long-term life functioning.
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The gold standard, the one door, did not predict who was actually living well down the road.
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Other measures did a better job, like the longest continuous stretch of non-use a person reached.
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The study said plainly that there is a lack of evidence for using total abstinence as the definition of success.
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So what do managed use and tapering actually look like?
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Managed use means a man with support sets deliberate boundaries around his use.
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Less often, lower risk settings.
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Planned, planned, right?
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Planned use instead of compulsive.
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The goal is shrinking the harm and often shrinking the use itself over time.
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Tapering, structured reduction means stepping down gradually instead of demanding a cliff jump on day one.
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And I'll be honest with you, because honesty is the whole brand here, because we want you to know the research on formal meth tapering programs specifically is thinner than the research on contingency management.
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This is true.
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But what we have is the reduced use evidence I just walked you through, which tells you that movement in the right direction produces real benefit.
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And I can tell you this anecdotally from my program.
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Tapering off reduced use gives men a sense that there is an answer, a way out, a light at the end of the tunnel.
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Reduction really does work.
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Every man who goes from daily use to weekend use has recovered five days a week in of his own mind, right?
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The research now says that that actually counts.
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It's almost three four years now of me sitting with men in this work.
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And I'm gonna tell you it does count.
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Door number three, what the people in the room actually want.
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So this one matters to me, maybe more than any study, because it is about listening.
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In early 2025, a study surveyed 100 people who use meth and asked them, in their own words, what does recovery look like to you?
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Here's the tension inside the answers.
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And I love this because it is so human.
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About two-thirds agreed with the traditional statement that recovery means stopping all mood and mind altering substances.
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That old story lives in them.
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Okay, I carry it sometimes too, but when the researchers asked which outcomes were absolutely essential to their recovery, listen to what they said.
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Staying out of legal trouble, 92%, stable employment, 82%, better quality of life, 80%, stable housing, 78%, better coping skills, 78%, better relationship, 75%, thinking clearly, less depression, less stress, more hope, better sleep.
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Not one of those can be measured in a urine screen.
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People with lived experience are telling us that recovery is a whole life.
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And a treatment system that only measures molecules in urine is measuring the smallest part of the story.
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Let me bring this home to you because chemsex is this whole other terrain, right?
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Meth for us was rarely just about the drug.
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It was welded to sex, connection, belonging, to the internet, in our pockets, to the loneliness, which means abstinence only messaging for gay men often fails twice, once as a drug treatment and once as sexual health.
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The harm reduction tradition understands this and it understood it early.
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Because there's a pair of studies followed over 200 meth using men who have sex with men through community treatment programs that delivered solid, evidence-based therapy from an explicitly harm reduction stance.
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Men did not have to pledge abstinence at the door to receive care.
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Here was the outcomes less use, less severe addiction, better HIV care.
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This is the lineage of the programs like the Stonewall Project in San Francisco.
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It's built on the belief that not every man is ready, willing, or able to pursue abstinence today, and that the first job is to keep him alive and moving him toward health.
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More recently, 2024 review looked at harm reduction programs built specifically for chemisex among men who have sex with men.
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One pilot program stood out, it's 76% of the men completed it.
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And notice this 74% of them reached abstinence on their own inside a harm reduction program.
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74%.
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Nobody demanded abstinence at the door, and most of the men walked toward it anyway.
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That finding does not surprise me because shame.
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Shame is a horrible motivator and a worse teacher.
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When a man is told he is welcome, only if he is perfect, he's going to hide.
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When he is told he is welcome as he is, he shows up.
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And showing up is where every recovery I have ever witnessed actually started.
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And showing up produces long-term results.
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Harm reduction and abstinence are not enemies.
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And very often harm reduction is the road that leads a man to abstinence.
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Wide enough to walk at your own pace, but with the guardrails, right?
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Instead of trapdoors on the outside.
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Abstinence is a door.
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And for some of us, it is the right one.
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It was for me.
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There are men I work with whose relationship to myth is such that any use reopens a whole wound.
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And they know it.
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And for them, substance-free living is it.
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The research agrees that abstinence, where a man can reach it and sustain it, does bring the strongest gains.
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Nothing here is taking away from that.
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And the same body of research says the room has other doors.
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Contingency management, backed by 26 of the 27 studies, now covered by Medicaid in California, reduced use, validated across 13 clinical trials as a path to less craving, less depression, more life, harm reduction programs for men like us that keep men engaged, keep men alive, and often enough walk them all the way to substance-free living anyway.
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The one door model asks, Are you clean or are you dirty?
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I do not even use that word, as you know, because you are never dirty, whether you're using or whether you're not.
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The mini door model many doors model, ask a better question here.
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Are you moving toward the best and highest version of yourself?
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Are you improving at least 1% every day?
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And if you are listening to this and you are still using, here is what I want you to take from this.
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You do not have to be ready for everything to be ready for something.
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The evidence says that that something counts.
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Fewer days, safer settings, a support group you actually attend, an honest conversation with a counselor, with a sponsor, with a coach, with a therapist, a doctor who will work with you where you actually are, instead of a book telling you where you should be.
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If a program shamed you out the door because you could not promise forever on day one, that was the doorway failing.
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Not you.
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It's not you.
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You're carrying the blame for a system that doesn't work for you.
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If you are absent and it is working, keep on trucking.
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And if you are somewhere in the messy middle, you're using less than you were, but more than you want, I want you to hear this.
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The middle is recovery too.
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The researchers finally caught up to what your body already knew.
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Every step out of the fire is worth something.
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The man who used to disappear for four days and now disappears for maybe one or none of them, you've changed your life.
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You're in your way.
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Whether or not a fucking spreadsheet calls you a success or not.
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This room has many doors.
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Some open into abstinence, some open into less, some open into not yet.
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Come back tomorrow, we'll leave the light on.
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Here's something to keep you safe.
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Whichever door you choose today, know this.
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The room isn't locked.
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Everything I cited today is waiting for you in the show notes.
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You can read these studies yourself, bring them to your therapist, your doctor, your group, your sponsor, whoever needs to see this.
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The science is there.
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For once, I'm using science.
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Not the world according to Dallas, but this is the world according to me too.
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So now, if you made it through this, I hope you enjoy my conversation with Sickams.
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All right, welcome back to the Aftermath Podcast.
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I'm your host, Dallas.
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Very special episode and the first in-person recording I've ever done for the Aftermath Podcast.
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Amazing.
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I'm so glad to be part of this.
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We are here in LA and in a historic park, apparently, we just got chased out of.
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See a hummingbird.
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And a hummingbird.
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Yep.
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There we go.
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It's a good omen.
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Um I'm here with my special guest, Thickums.
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Thickums de Loncrae.
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It's French.
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Dubois.
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Thick's has a very interesting um Instagram page.
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And it's called Homeless in LA.
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Um Thick's has a story that we're going to find out in just a minute.
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Um but while I'm here in LA, I came here for a Kimsex conference.
00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:24.240
I thought I would try to get out and meet some people.
00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:27.920
And I was given Thick's name.
00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:29.119
And number.
00:21:29.359 --> 00:21:30.000
Hey.
00:21:31.279 --> 00:21:32.880
Can't leave the party without a number.
00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:33.599
Right.
00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:36.559
That's probably the only number I'll get while I'm here.
00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:38.400
So let it be the best one.
00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:42.400
But a bum.
00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:43.119
All right.
00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:44.319
Okay.
00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:54.160
So can you tell us a little bit about yourself, maybe your history um with drug use or anything else you found would be interesting and pertinent here?
00:21:54.559 --> 00:21:55.200
Uh yeah.
00:21:55.359 --> 00:21:59.759
Um, well, I'm 43 now, but um not too long ago.
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:02.799
I was half the weight that you see me now.
00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:04.720
I was gorgeous.
00:22:05.440 --> 00:22:07.039
Still am on the inside.
00:22:07.759 --> 00:22:08.880
But I had everything.
00:22:09.039 --> 00:22:14.799
I had um two houses, um, two cars, a husband, a very good life for myself.
00:22:14.960 --> 00:22:24.799
And then um my mother passed away, um, got divorced because of some issues that I discovered after the fact that we've gotten married.
00:22:24.880 --> 00:22:27.519
Uh just pretty much being used to get somebody's papers.
00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:34.480
And um I slowly st started my downward spiral into my decline through meth.
00:22:34.720 --> 00:22:35.359
Through meth.
00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:35.839
Mm-hmm.
00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:40.720
So your your mother died, and then you found out your your husband was using you for papers?
00:22:40.960 --> 00:22:41.279
Yes.
00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:41.839
Okay.
00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:52.000
It's a lot it's a lot, especially when you grow up, you know, in the foster care system and all you're doing is looking for a family and a place to call home.
00:22:53.200 --> 00:22:54.480
So you grew up in foster care?
00:22:54.880 --> 00:22:56.319
Yes, predominantly.
00:22:56.640 --> 00:22:57.519
In LA?
00:22:58.079 --> 00:22:59.440
Uh in San Francisco.
00:22:59.680 --> 00:23:00.319
Oh, okay.
00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:02.160
So how did you live in LA?
00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:08.480
Uh um the rent is the rent was cheaper back then.
00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:11.279
That's the truth.
00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:15.920
So you got into meth as a coping mechanism, it sounds like.
00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:17.759
How did you discover it?
00:23:18.799 --> 00:23:24.000
Um, believe it or not, my brother was the first one to have me try it uh in my early teens.
00:23:24.160 --> 00:23:27.920
I tried it one time, I didn't like it, and that was it for many, many years, decades.
00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:33.039
Um uh I found it when I went to go on Grinder.
00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:35.279
It was one of my first experiences.
00:23:35.839 --> 00:23:41.200
And I didn't know, I mean, I had a familiarity of what it was because I did it with my with my brother once.
00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:48.799
Um and uh but with this one, it was a little bit different because it was somebody that I wasn't related to.
00:23:49.039 --> 00:23:51.680
And it made me feel very euphoric.
00:23:51.839 --> 00:23:54.720
And um it made me feel, I don't know, appreciated.
00:23:54.799 --> 00:23:57.599
I've always grew grew up kind of self-conscious in my body.
00:23:58.240 --> 00:24:00.799
Um, even though it looked nicer back then.
00:24:01.119 --> 00:24:03.839
Uh appreciate what you have when you're younger people, okay.
00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:04.720
Appreciate it.
00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:16.240
Um but uh it was at that point that um I just was looking for I don't know, looking for someone to appreciate me, looking for some looking for love in all the wrong places.
00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:18.880
Yeah, interesting.
00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:19.680
Acceptance.
00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:20.559
Acceptance.
00:24:20.720 --> 00:24:25.359
So as a foster child, you were probably always looking for that too.
00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:26.079
Is that right?
00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:27.440
Clock it.
00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:30.960
Clock that one.
00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:42.079
So then growing up, then you find a husband, and the message is you're not appreciated, you're not wanted, you were just used.
00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:42.640
Right.
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:42.880
Yeah.
00:24:43.119 --> 00:24:43.440
That's right.
00:24:43.519 --> 00:24:47.359
It's not it wasn't just the husband, it was also the the fact that he came with a family.
00:24:47.680 --> 00:24:50.400
So I got his family as well, which is great.
00:24:50.720 --> 00:24:51.119
Oh, nice.
00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:53.599
For as well, for as long as it lasted, it was great.
00:24:53.759 --> 00:24:54.319
Hmm.
00:24:54.640 --> 00:24:59.759
Did the family turn on you in the divorce, or did you have still have a relationship with them?
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:01.359
Yes, I lost connection with them.
00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:10.000
I mean, they're it's it's blood is sticking water, I guess, and so I'm not blood related, and so yeah, therefore, I mean, yeah, it's yeah, yeah.
00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:13.039
So looking for love, looking for love, looking for a place.
00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:14.240
Looking for acceptance.
00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:15.519
Looking for acceptance.
00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:16.079
Yeah.
00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:25.920
I I when you're on meth, uh, I think that people that you're with um don't really care so much about your body as long as it's it's acceptable to them.
00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:26.240
Yeah.
00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:30.000
So I didn't have to like do as much, even though I was gorgeous.
00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:32.480
Um I I filmed myself doing things.
00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:34.480
So I was like, you know what, you had you got it.
00:25:34.799 --> 00:25:35.839
Okay, for real.
00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:44.480
Um and I still I still have some of those videos actually that I I would look at every now and then to help me stay off of meth, which has really helped as great.
00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:45.680
Interesting.
00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:46.240
Interesting.
00:25:46.559 --> 00:25:47.440
So want to share that.
00:25:47.759 --> 00:25:59.359
Um it's interesting because uh the my clients, we just had this like challenge of deleting videos and pictures from their meth days because it was triggering.
00:25:59.440 --> 00:26:05.680
But you're saying you kept some videos from your meth days to combat the euphoric recall, I guess.
00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:06.480
Is that right?
00:26:06.799 --> 00:26:07.440
Absolutely.
00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:08.400
Absolutely.
00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:10.079
So were they terrible?
00:26:10.480 --> 00:26:11.759
What was it about them?
00:26:11.920 --> 00:26:15.200
Just I I just knew my angles.
00:26:16.720 --> 00:26:17.839
Um I don't know.
00:26:17.920 --> 00:26:31.680
It's uh I I grew up watching a lot of porn, um, as you know, kids back in in the 80s and 90s did, or um watching a lot of um independent films uh from like gay areas, you know, England.
00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:41.759
Um and so I just uh in watching porn, that's how I would deliver my sex to people in the same manner as in the same ways.
00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:46.160
And so I knew how to work the the camera in certain angles to make me look better.
00:26:46.480 --> 00:26:47.039
Yeah.
00:26:47.359 --> 00:26:50.799
But watching it made you not want to do that.
00:26:51.119 --> 00:26:53.680
Right, because it was like I was reliving the same experience.
00:26:54.079 --> 00:26:54.240
Okay.
00:26:54.559 --> 00:26:54.880
Mm-hmm.
00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:57.680
I can still get off on it because it was that good.
00:26:58.400 --> 00:27:00.559
You know when you go back to the same porn video?
00:27:01.119 --> 00:27:01.920
You know what I mean?
00:27:02.079 --> 00:27:02.319
Yes.
00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:03.759
Like it'll get you there.
00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:07.599
I thought you meant you watched the video to make you not want to use.
00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:13.200
It kept me from using because I was already living that euphoric memory.
00:27:13.440 --> 00:27:14.400
Oh, yes, okay.
00:27:14.559 --> 00:27:15.039
That makes sense.
00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:15.680
Gotcha.
00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:16.400
Oh, okay.
00:27:16.480 --> 00:27:16.799
Alright.
00:27:16.880 --> 00:27:17.119
Yeah.
00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:24.400
I mean, look, everybody has a different way, different technique of keeping themselves from going into that physical relapse.
00:27:24.720 --> 00:27:32.160
Not only that, it was it was because um I was bringing people more people to the house, but then like their energies were in a match with my energy.
00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:36.000
And you gotta be careful about the energy bringing to your house, people, okay?
00:27:36.319 --> 00:27:37.680
Yeah, even when you're using.
00:27:38.079 --> 00:27:39.440
Especially when you're using, yeah.
00:27:39.680 --> 00:27:49.839
And um, so I never really understood why people smoke methylone until yeah, I got through towards the late latter parts of the years of doing it.
00:27:50.640 --> 00:27:50.880
Yeah.
00:27:51.200 --> 00:28:03.599
Yeah, you know, there's a progression I see a lot where you start out the parties and with other people, and then like you're saying, toward the end of the use, I see a lot of men just using by themselves.
00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:09.839
When one is you never know what you're getting, there's a lot of paranoia and psychosis, right?
00:28:10.160 --> 00:28:14.480
Or the guy shows up, he's been up for three days, and he's not gonna fuck anyway.
00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:15.119
Right?
00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:16.720
He just needs a place to crash.
00:28:16.960 --> 00:28:17.759
Pretty much.
00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:18.799
Right.
00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:21.119
And so you get so tired of that.
00:28:21.440 --> 00:28:25.279
Um even in larger cities, you know, it happens that way.
00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:28.000
Uh, that you just start using on your own.
00:28:28.559 --> 00:28:29.359
Using your own.
00:28:29.680 --> 00:28:30.640
Just using on your own.
00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:31.759
Oh, okay, gotcha.
00:28:31.920 --> 00:28:32.079
Yeah.
00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:37.519
Because you can live in the porn and not ever be disappointed because you're living on that screen, right?
00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:44.000
I r I remember it would take um hours to to bust a load.
00:28:44.319 --> 00:28:44.480
Yeah.
00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:45.680
You know what I mean?
00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:47.039
It's like, golly.
00:28:47.279 --> 00:28:47.680
Yeah.
00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:50.480
And so, but I I preferred being with people.
00:28:50.559 --> 00:28:55.359
I never understood why until later, like I said later later on, I was like, it's a party drug.
00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:56.079
It's a party drug.
00:28:56.160 --> 00:28:57.519
You should be around people.
00:28:58.000 --> 00:29:06.400
And then um, but yes, they all come with their own baggage, they'll steal from you, they'll try to out outwake you.
00:29:06.559 --> 00:29:09.200
You know, they were waiting for you to fall asleep so they can rob you.
00:29:09.440 --> 00:29:10.640
Is what's happening here.
00:29:10.960 --> 00:29:11.680
Yeah, yeah.
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:13.039
That happens a lot.
00:29:13.359 --> 00:29:19.359
Okay, so you get into the this train is fucking relentless over here.
00:29:19.599 --> 00:29:22.079
It is always loud here in LA.
00:29:22.319 --> 00:29:23.359
It's always loud in LA.
00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:27.279
Nervous system is wrecked.
00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:28.160
Okay, okay.
00:29:28.319 --> 00:29:31.440
Anyway, maybe it's not too loud in the in the microphones.
00:29:31.599 --> 00:29:33.440
But so you're in the scene.
00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:35.359
How long did that last?
00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:42.559
Okay, so I was in the scene for maybe four or five years, maybe?
00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:43.359
I don't know.
00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:47.200
Maybe I'm gonna say at least four years.
00:29:47.839 --> 00:29:50.480
Okay, so you were in the scene for about four years.
00:29:50.799 --> 00:29:56.160
Now you said you started with two houses, cars, a husband, and what did you end up with?
00:29:57.039 --> 00:29:57.599
Zero.
00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:02.240
Yes, loss of foreclosure.
00:30:02.559 --> 00:30:04.400
My husband wouldn't sign the papers.
00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:06.000
I see sell it.
00:30:06.240 --> 00:30:06.880
I see.
00:30:07.119 --> 00:30:09.119
Okay, and then so you're in the meth scene.
00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:14.160
So what made you what was your turning point to start to get out?
00:30:16.319 --> 00:30:18.960
Uh my turning point in starting to get out of meth.
00:30:19.119 --> 00:30:22.400
I mean, I t I tried so many times to to get sober.
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:24.079
Um What did you try?
00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:25.359
What methods?
00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:28.240
Um quitting cold turkey.
00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:37.759
Um not not smoking as much, just trying to condense that I was smoking into a few days, just trying to get more disciplined into it.
00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:38.079
Yeah.
00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:40.240
You know, I only smoke when I do this.
00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:40.640
Right.
00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:42.880
I only smoke on my office when I'm not working.
00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:43.359
Yeah.
00:30:43.599 --> 00:30:45.440
Um, things like that.
00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:46.079
Okay.
00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:49.599
But um, sorry, remind me what a person was.
00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:52.559
Yeah, no, what what was your what what methods did you try?
00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:56.400
So you tried cold turkey, you tried tapering off, you tried managed juice.
00:30:56.720 --> 00:30:58.799
Yes, I tried managed juice, and that was pretty much it.
00:30:58.880 --> 00:31:02.880
Oh, and yeah, um I also tried just um smoking marijuana.
00:31:03.039 --> 00:31:03.519
Oh, okay.
00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:08.400
Yeah, I tried other other forms, drinking um poppers only.
00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:10.880
Um those things didn't work.
00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:16.640
Um I remember going to my dealer and saying, hey, you know, I I'm good, you know, I don't need anything, I'm trying to quit.
00:31:16.799 --> 00:31:16.960
Right.
00:31:17.119 --> 00:31:18.799
And then he'd offered me a special deal.
00:31:19.839 --> 00:31:20.880
Of course he did.
00:31:21.039 --> 00:31:21.119
Yeah.
00:31:21.440 --> 00:31:25.359
You know what really helped me quit though was um using the test strips.
00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:26.160
Really?
00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:26.720
Yeah.
00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:28.559
Everything has fentanyl in it.
00:31:28.799 --> 00:31:29.119
Oh.
00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:29.839
Yeah.
00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:32.319
And I I've seen people like OD.
00:31:32.559 --> 00:31:32.799
Yes.
00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:37.839
And it's just like if it smells like paint, it's not good.
00:31:38.079 --> 00:31:39.279
Is that is that the sign?
00:31:39.680 --> 00:31:40.880
That's one of the signs.
00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:42.799
Uh that's for mostly for coke though.
00:31:43.039 --> 00:31:43.279
Okay.
00:31:43.519 --> 00:31:48.799
With meth, I just I just I would I would try it and test it and kept coming with that little red line and I was.
00:31:49.119 --> 00:31:50.160
And you wouldn't use it.
00:31:50.400 --> 00:31:53.119
Did you test that before you left the dealers?
00:31:54.079 --> 00:31:55.119
Can you do that?
00:31:55.440 --> 00:31:55.759
No.
00:31:56.000 --> 00:31:56.240
Okay.
00:31:56.480 --> 00:31:58.559
Because you're you're you're getting it in passing.
00:31:58.799 --> 00:31:59.039
Okay.
00:31:59.279 --> 00:32:00.880
He's in the car, you're outside, right?
00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:02.240
So you have exchange.
00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:04.400
Test it later and then throw it away.
00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:05.920
I'm guessing, right?
00:32:07.039 --> 00:32:08.480
Yeah, waste the money.
00:32:08.799 --> 00:32:11.680
Oh, well then I I I'd call him and say, Hey, what's going on with this thing?
00:32:11.920 --> 00:32:14.640
And he'd say, Oh, it's not that, don't worry about it.
00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:15.440
I've never seen that.
00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:22.480
And you tried to explain the the chemistry of it to me, and I'm just like, I just want to get high.
00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:24.880
It's too much, it's over my head.
00:32:25.119 --> 00:32:25.440
Right.
00:32:25.599 --> 00:32:27.759
Um, but I was just too paranoid at that point.
00:32:27.839 --> 00:32:28.079
Yeah.
00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:30.319
Because I've seen people do, like I said before.
00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:35.119
So when you started seeing the fentanyl, you started you slowed down.
00:32:35.519 --> 00:32:36.480
Oh, absolutely.
00:32:36.559 --> 00:32:36.720
Yeah.
00:32:36.960 --> 00:32:38.160
It it it's scary.
00:32:38.400 --> 00:32:38.720
Okay.
00:32:38.960 --> 00:32:43.039
So then at what point were you is it unhoused or is it homeless?
00:32:43.359 --> 00:32:44.480
Uh I'm unhoused.
00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:44.799
Okay.
00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:45.920
Um I'm in a shelter now.
00:32:46.160 --> 00:32:46.960
You're in the shelter.
00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:47.599
Okay.
00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:49.759
So how long have you been there?
00:32:50.319 --> 00:32:52.880
Um it's been three months now.
00:32:53.119 --> 00:32:53.680
Three months.
00:32:54.079 --> 00:32:54.640
Yeah.
00:32:54.960 --> 00:33:03.119
And then you start so did you you mentioned APLA, which is um God, now it's le leaving me what it stands for.
00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:04.799
Uh APLA.
00:33:05.039 --> 00:33:07.200
AIDS Prevention Los Angeles.
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:07.839
Los Angeles.
00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:09.039
AIDS Prevention Los Angeles.
00:33:09.119 --> 00:33:13.039
That's how I met Dickham's uh Joe from there.
00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:15.200
Joe has been on the podcast with Dr.
00:33:15.359 --> 00:33:15.680
C.
00:33:16.480 --> 00:33:20.000
Uh they we did a podcast on um Weekend Warriors.
00:33:20.319 --> 00:33:21.839
So Weekend Warriors?
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:22.240
Yeah.
00:33:22.400 --> 00:33:23.440
Okay, I'm gonna check that out.
00:33:23.599 --> 00:33:24.319
Yeah, it's very good.
00:33:24.559 --> 00:33:25.279
He's a celebrity.
00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:28.000
I had no idea I was being gonna read by him today.
00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:30.240
No, now I f I follow you on Insta.
00:33:30.799 --> 00:33:31.279
Thanks.
00:33:31.759 --> 00:33:32.559
Thank you.
00:33:32.799 --> 00:33:39.279
Um okay, so you you became homeless and unhoused, and you're in a shelter.
00:33:39.599 --> 00:33:41.759
So Oh, we should talk about that.
00:33:41.839 --> 00:33:45.599
Yeah, I was I was working and getting high at my workplace.
00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:47.839
I was working graveyard shift in an office building.
00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:48.319
Okay.
00:33:48.559 --> 00:33:49.839
And um, yeah.
00:33:50.319 --> 00:33:55.359
I I had to stop that um yeah, before they caught me.
00:33:55.759 --> 00:34:02.640
So then what what why did you and when did you start your Instagram page being homeless in LA?
00:34:03.039 --> 00:34:13.440
Um I started uh How to Be Homeless in LA about six months ago, uh, because of Malik Henry um and uh one of my workers from um Sharp.
00:34:13.599 --> 00:34:15.679
It's a homeless prevention organization.
00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:16.159
Okay.
00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:22.239
Um they both recommended that I chronicle my journey and that maybe my journey might be able to help others.
00:34:22.639 --> 00:34:23.119
Nice.
00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:23.760
Mm-hmm.
00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:28.079
So what about your journey as a model for others?
00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:32.159
What about my journey as a model for others?
00:34:32.239 --> 00:34:36.079
I think it's the outlook, I think it's the perspective.
00:34:36.239 --> 00:34:41.760
Um, I think it's the resources that I provide on on the page for housing.
00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:42.239
Okay.
00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:45.760
For housing, for laundry, for restrooms, for showers.
00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:47.760
Nice things that people really need.
00:34:47.920 --> 00:34:48.159
Okay.
00:34:48.320 --> 00:34:50.719
There's not enough public restrooms, as you can imagine.
00:34:50.880 --> 00:34:52.559
Even for those that are housed.
00:34:52.719 --> 00:34:58.000
I mean, you're out there outside, you use a restroom, nobody will let you use a restroom of a store.
00:34:58.159 --> 00:35:01.119
I mean they would never let us they wouldn't let us here, I'm sure.
00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:02.079
They wouldn't even let us know.
00:35:02.400 --> 00:35:03.840
Yeah, there's no restrooms in the park.
00:35:04.400 --> 00:35:07.599
There's no restroom in the park, they won't even let us sit down on the bench here.
00:35:07.920 --> 00:35:09.280
But no, little things like that.
00:35:09.519 --> 00:35:12.559
If you're out here, you need to go to the restroom and you got you got the bubble guts.
00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:14.000
I mean, what where are you gonna go?
00:35:14.079 --> 00:35:14.880
What you gonna do?
00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:15.360
Yeah.
00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:22.239
So I think that's what people take from my page is more or less um where things are, where the resources are, and how to get access to them.
00:35:22.480 --> 00:35:23.599
Wow, I love it.
00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:31.360
So if I'm I mean, if I'm home if I'm in house in LA, I need to know where where can I do my laundry?
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:33.440
Where's the next food bank?
00:35:33.679 --> 00:35:34.000
Yep.
00:35:34.239 --> 00:35:35.760
How do you qualify?
00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:37.440
Oh yeah, how do I qualify?
00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:39.039
You gotta have your qualifications, gosh.
00:35:39.599 --> 00:35:40.960
What do you need to qualify?
00:35:41.199 --> 00:35:50.239
Um, well, you've had you have to be um interviewed, there has to be an intake done on you uh to see um what what your score is under a system.
00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:55.519
There's a matrix um software that they have that everybody uses here in Los Angeles.
00:35:55.679 --> 00:35:58.880
I think it's called the CLMX, something like that.
00:35:59.119 --> 00:36:00.239
I'll have to find out for you.
00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:00.880
It's okay.
00:36:01.119 --> 00:36:15.039
Um but yeah, they they'll it they'll give you an intake, they'll interview you, and they'll ask you so many questions, um, and based on your answers is how you're scored and how you're categorized and how soon you'll be able to get housing.
00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:15.840
Wow.
00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:17.199
Priority list.
00:36:17.440 --> 00:36:18.079
Yeah.
00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:22.480
So housing does not include the shelter then?
00:36:22.960 --> 00:36:24.079
Or does it?
00:36:24.800 --> 00:36:28.079
You know what they say, home sweet home, home is where the heart is.
00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:34.239
Um even if you're housed in a shelter, you can still be homeless because it's not your home.
00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:34.639
Right.
00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:39.760
You don't feel like that someone people are are checking on you every five minutes, every five minutes, 24-7.
00:36:40.079 --> 00:36:40.559
Every five minutes.
00:36:40.960 --> 00:36:41.519
They check on you?
00:36:41.599 --> 00:36:43.119
Sometimes 15 minutes if you're lucky.
00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:43.679
Really?
00:36:43.920 --> 00:36:44.159
Yes.
00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:44.559
Okay.
00:36:44.800 --> 00:36:45.840
They just open up the doors.
00:36:45.920 --> 00:36:49.440
They open up the doors just to see if anybody's doing anything in the room.
00:36:49.679 --> 00:36:49.920
Oh.
00:36:50.320 --> 00:36:50.960
They shouldn't be doing.
00:36:51.199 --> 00:36:53.760
So are you in a big room then with a lot of other people?
00:36:54.079 --> 00:36:56.159
I'm in a reconverted motel.
00:36:56.639 --> 00:36:56.960
Okay.
00:36:57.280 --> 00:36:57.599
Uh-huh.
00:36:57.679 --> 00:36:58.960
Uh funny.
00:36:59.360 --> 00:37:02.800
Uh uh a motel that I had smoked meth in.
00:37:03.039 --> 00:37:03.440
Oh, interesting.
00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:04.079
Full circle.
00:37:04.400 --> 00:37:05.679
Talk about a full circle moment.
00:37:05.840 --> 00:37:06.719
Am I right?
00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:14.960
So being in the same room where I used to smoke meth um has now been a place where I've called home as a shelter.
00:37:15.199 --> 00:37:15.599
Wow.
00:37:16.000 --> 00:37:17.360
So you share it with another person?
00:37:17.519 --> 00:37:18.639
Uh there's three-door room.
00:37:18.880 --> 00:37:19.599
Three-door room.
00:37:19.760 --> 00:37:21.440
Yes, very comfortable mattresses.
00:37:21.679 --> 00:37:23.840
Is that sarcasm or no, the very room?
00:37:24.480 --> 00:37:25.840
Shout out to Sunrise Shelter.
00:37:26.079 --> 00:37:26.880
Sunrise Shelter.
00:37:26.960 --> 00:37:27.119
Yep.
00:37:27.360 --> 00:37:28.239
Sunrise Shelter.
00:37:28.639 --> 00:37:28.960
Okay.
00:37:31.360 --> 00:37:33.360
So what are the distracted?
00:37:34.719 --> 00:37:35.519
So, okay.
00:37:35.679 --> 00:37:36.719
So you're in the shelter.
00:37:37.119 --> 00:37:41.679
Are you working toward then I'm I'm I'm assuming working toward getting out of there?
00:37:41.840 --> 00:37:42.480
Do you have a plan?
00:37:42.639 --> 00:37:47.599
Does somebody like help you with some type of long-term plan to get into housing?
00:37:47.920 --> 00:37:48.400
Absolutely.
00:37:48.559 --> 00:37:51.280
Um Dolly Cordova from Sharp is actually helping me.
00:37:51.440 --> 00:38:02.320
Um they along with the intake that they'll do with you, they'll offer you objectives uh and things that you want to work on, and they'll work with you as long as you have uh those objectives.
00:38:02.400 --> 00:38:05.760
And once you're done with those objectives and you get trimmed out of the program.
00:38:05.920 --> 00:38:08.719
And so I meet with Dolly Cordova once a week.
00:38:08.960 --> 00:38:12.800
Um and I get my medication through Sharp.
00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:17.119
Um it turns out that I've been diagnosed with hyposchizoaffective disorder.
00:38:17.360 --> 00:38:17.679
Okay.
00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:19.199
Uh didn't know that.
00:38:19.440 --> 00:38:19.679
Okay.
00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:25.760
So a lot of people that um may be drawn to doing drugs like that maybe have what I have.
00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:27.119
Who's to say?
00:38:27.679 --> 00:38:29.760
Um, I'm not a doctor, I can't diagnose you.
00:38:29.840 --> 00:38:31.039
But they can at Sharp.
00:38:31.119 --> 00:38:32.880
That's S-C-H-A-R-P.
00:38:33.199 --> 00:38:34.800
Yeah, we'll put the link in the show notes.
00:38:35.039 --> 00:38:35.599
Yes.
00:38:35.840 --> 00:38:43.760
Um, but yeah, so I meet with them, and so it's because of them that I've been able to get an organizer, um, get work.
00:38:43.840 --> 00:38:46.400
I'm working now as an Uber driver.
00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:47.119
Oh.
00:38:47.760 --> 00:38:54.639
At the shelter, they allow you to to live there and stack up your bread, okay, so to speak, your money uh for six months.
00:38:54.800 --> 00:38:56.800
And you're only allowed to be at the shelter for six months.
00:38:56.960 --> 00:38:57.440
Oh, okay.
00:38:57.519 --> 00:38:58.320
So how long have you been there?
00:38:58.480 --> 00:38:59.440
There's always a catch.
00:38:59.679 --> 00:39:01.599
Uh uh three months now.
00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:02.320
Three months.
00:39:02.559 --> 00:39:04.159
And you're making money through Uber.
00:39:04.400 --> 00:39:04.960
I am.
00:39:05.199 --> 00:39:05.679
Very nice.
00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:06.800
Like saving.
00:39:07.039 --> 00:39:07.840
Very nice.
00:39:08.159 --> 00:39:13.840
So you are there rules about are you tested there, drug tested?
00:39:14.159 --> 00:39:14.800
Oh, yes.
00:39:14.960 --> 00:39:15.199
Okay.
00:39:15.440 --> 00:39:16.400
Yes, yes, yes.
00:39:16.639 --> 00:39:21.360
They they test you if they suspect that you're under the influence of something, they'll test you right there on the spot.
00:39:21.599 --> 00:39:27.599
If you're on meth and phenomines, they give you three chances to get off of meth, which is a big which is a lot.
00:39:27.840 --> 00:39:34.800
Um, because we had a roommate uh who was on meth, and we never got uh an ounce of sleep.
00:39:34.880 --> 00:39:36.880
He's always going in and out of the room.
00:39:37.280 --> 00:39:45.599
Um but yeah, so they're they're aware of the issue, and uh you do get three chances at the shelter to to get sober.
00:39:45.920 --> 00:39:46.239
Okay.
00:39:46.719 --> 00:39:50.320
Do you go to meetings or how how how do you work your recovery?
00:39:50.639 --> 00:39:52.800
Um, I used to go to meetings through APLA.
00:39:52.960 --> 00:39:53.119
Okay.
00:39:53.280 --> 00:39:54.159
Through through Joe.
00:39:54.320 --> 00:39:54.480
Okay.
00:39:54.639 --> 00:39:58.960
Uh they've stopped the meetings because of budget cuts, thanks to you know who.
00:39:59.840 --> 00:40:01.199
Um, yeah.
00:40:01.440 --> 00:40:09.280
And so I've tried going to other meetings and groups, but um I'm pretty good at just managing it on my own right now at this moment in time.
00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:10.480
How do you manage it?
00:40:10.639 --> 00:40:12.159
How what keeps you sober?
00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:13.119
I keep busy.
00:40:13.199 --> 00:40:13.440
Yeah.
00:40:13.599 --> 00:40:14.800
I keep busy with work.
00:40:15.039 --> 00:40:23.440
Um whenever I'm feeling like the need to do something, and don't get me wrong, I've I've I've messed up a couple of times by relapsing.
00:40:23.679 --> 00:40:26.480
Um then feeling really remorseful afterwards.
00:40:26.639 --> 00:40:31.360
Uh it was during those times I luckily had the meetings to go to through Joe, our friend Joe.
00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:39.119
Um but with all the budget cuts being what they are, and other meetings, I just um I'm not really comfortable there.
00:40:39.280 --> 00:40:46.239
I think there's a lot of energy that's associated with meth and those people that are still on it, which triggers me to get back on it.
00:40:46.719 --> 00:40:49.920
And so uh meetings like that aren't really the best place for me.
00:40:50.159 --> 00:40:51.280
For you, particularly.
00:40:51.679 --> 00:40:52.000
Okay.
00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:56.079
So what kind of services do you get at APLA then through through Joe?
00:40:56.880 --> 00:41:00.559
Joe runs the Chemsex um portion of APLA.
00:41:00.800 --> 00:41:08.639
Yes, there's a program, it's um an eight-week program where they they test you for methamphetamines uh three times a week.
00:41:08.800 --> 00:41:14.639
And it's a program I'm forgetting the vocabulary term for it, but it's where they they they provide you with incentives.
00:41:14.880 --> 00:41:17.440
Oh, yes, um contingency?
00:41:17.679 --> 00:41:18.559
Contingency management.
00:41:18.880 --> 00:41:19.920
Management, yes.
00:41:20.159 --> 00:41:23.039
Um, and so I graduated that program.
00:41:23.519 --> 00:41:27.360
Um and then when I relapse, I have to go back into the program.
00:41:27.599 --> 00:41:29.039
But I'm grateful for it.
00:41:29.199 --> 00:41:36.719
Um they give you gift cards after your eight weeks so you can get clothing, soap, shampoos, anything to eat if you're homeless on the street.
00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:37.840
Really nice.
00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:39.039
So it helped you.
00:41:39.280 --> 00:41:40.239
Oh absolutely.
00:41:40.480 --> 00:41:42.079
And you asked me a question before that.
00:41:42.239 --> 00:41:45.599
What uh uh what do you do for your recovery?
00:41:45.920 --> 00:41:46.559
Yes.
00:41:47.039 --> 00:41:49.280
Um what I do for my recovery.
00:41:49.599 --> 00:41:52.159
Um like I said, I keep busy with work.
00:41:52.400 --> 00:41:55.599
Uh I completed a semester of school last semester.
00:41:55.760 --> 00:41:56.000
Okay.
00:41:56.239 --> 00:41:57.599
Not doing anything this semester.
00:41:57.760 --> 00:42:00.239
I'm only two classes away from my associate's degree.
00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:00.639
Wow.
00:42:00.880 --> 00:42:01.440
Did you believe that?
00:42:01.519 --> 00:42:03.519
All these years later, at 43.
00:42:04.079 --> 00:42:04.880
That's very nice.
00:42:04.960 --> 00:42:08.239
What are you what are you planning on getting your degree in?
00:42:08.559 --> 00:42:10.639
Um, it'll be something in horticulture.
00:42:10.719 --> 00:42:11.679
I'm a landscaper by trade.
00:42:11.920 --> 00:42:12.320
Oh, okay.
00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:13.280
Yeah, I do like that.
00:42:13.599 --> 00:42:14.000
Nice.
00:42:14.159 --> 00:42:14.639
Yeah.
00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:15.679
Very nice.
00:42:16.079 --> 00:42:17.119
You gotta stay busy.
00:42:17.440 --> 00:42:21.280
You have to stay busy and keep yourself distracted, especially if you're on on drugs like that.
00:42:21.440 --> 00:42:27.280
But I think the real thing that that kept me is keeping me sober is um the fact that I've seen somebody pass away.
00:42:27.440 --> 00:42:28.960
I saw somebody pass away.
00:42:29.119 --> 00:42:39.039
Um on it, I tried I called 911 and um I've had to deal with the guilt because I said that my my friend had OD'd and they never came, they never showed up.
00:42:40.480 --> 00:42:48.480
And so now I realize you're not supposed to say that you're you're someone's OD'd, you're supposed to say that someone is having trouble breathing or something like that.
00:42:48.559 --> 00:42:51.199
There are key terms you have to say to the cops.
00:42:51.519 --> 00:42:51.920
Really?
00:42:52.079 --> 00:42:52.559
Mm-hmm.
00:42:53.440 --> 00:42:54.079
Yes.
00:42:54.639 --> 00:42:55.039
Yes.
00:42:55.519 --> 00:42:56.079
Why is that?
00:42:56.320 --> 00:42:58.719
That's why I go to therapy now to help release that guilt too.
00:42:58.880 --> 00:42:59.039
Yes.
00:42:59.519 --> 00:43:00.639
This was a nice young man.
00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:02.079
Uh gorgeous.
00:43:02.239 --> 00:43:04.320
Uh and um Wow.
00:43:04.559 --> 00:43:09.199
Uh yeah, so I think that's what's helping me stay sober.
00:43:09.440 --> 00:43:09.840
Yeah.
00:43:10.400 --> 00:43:10.960
Yeah.
00:43:11.199 --> 00:43:11.920
Very nice.
00:43:12.079 --> 00:43:14.159
It's a yeah, that has to be traumatic.
00:43:14.239 --> 00:43:17.440
And you see a therapist, you're saying once a week.
00:43:17.760 --> 00:43:19.599
Is that through APLA or is it?
00:43:20.159 --> 00:43:22.079
Um, I actually was going through APLA.
00:43:22.159 --> 00:43:24.960
The thing is you can't double dip your resources.
00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:25.280
Okay.
00:43:25.519 --> 00:43:29.039
So I'm getting my sources through Sharp now, but APLA did provide me with a counselor.
00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:32.559
Yes, the therapist, amazing, amazing therapist.
00:43:32.719 --> 00:43:33.039
Really?
00:43:33.199 --> 00:43:33.840
Yes.
00:43:34.079 --> 00:43:35.360
You need to be heard.
00:43:35.519 --> 00:43:47.440
You need to get your your voice out there, you need to let them know what's going on so that way you feel you have someone that can relate to you and really help you with providing you with the tools and resources on how to get through something like this.
00:43:48.719 --> 00:43:50.960
So, where do you find your acceptance now?
00:43:51.599 --> 00:43:56.239
Uh I found it through Joe's group while it was still going on uh party wise.
00:43:57.280 --> 00:43:59.760
Um and my acceptance now.
00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:04.719
Now that that's been terminated because of budget cuts, um, it comes from myself.
00:44:04.960 --> 00:44:10.719
I finally got gotten to that point where I can say and look look in myself in the mirror and say, you know what, yes, you've done it.
00:44:10.880 --> 00:44:12.480
You're enough, you're okay.
00:44:12.800 --> 00:44:13.440
Yeah.
00:44:13.679 --> 00:44:14.079
Yeah.
00:44:14.320 --> 00:44:15.920
So it had been a long time.
00:44:16.159 --> 00:44:16.320
Yeah.
00:44:16.480 --> 00:44:18.880
So what what was your process like for that?
00:44:19.519 --> 00:44:22.320
For for finding your self-acceptance.
00:44:22.800 --> 00:44:24.159
Well, the name thickums.
00:44:25.280 --> 00:44:32.000
Um when I was going through my recovery, and this would be like uh um getting sober cold turkey.
00:44:32.320 --> 00:44:34.400
I watched Survival of the Thickest.
00:44:34.880 --> 00:44:36.639
Um The Flying Nun.
00:44:36.800 --> 00:44:37.119
Oh.
00:44:37.519 --> 00:44:44.000
Um, really positive and body body positive um things to watch on TV.
00:44:44.159 --> 00:44:46.559
Um that's what led me to the name Thick's.
00:44:46.880 --> 00:44:51.840
In the show, Survival of the Thickest, she refers to she's a clothing designer for bigger people, men and women.
00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:52.400
Oh, okay.
00:44:52.559 --> 00:44:56.320
She calls her her supporters, people that her customers, Thickums.
00:44:56.719 --> 00:44:58.400
Uh attacking them with my name.
00:44:58.639 --> 00:44:58.880
Okay.
00:44:59.119 --> 00:44:59.679
Yes.
00:45:00.239 --> 00:45:01.920
You could be whoever you want to be.
00:45:02.079 --> 00:45:03.679
You can change your name whenever you want to.
00:45:03.920 --> 00:45:04.320
That's right.
00:45:04.559 --> 00:45:04.800
Yes.
00:45:05.039 --> 00:45:06.400
Who cares who who who laughs?
00:45:06.480 --> 00:45:07.280
It's it's for you.
00:45:07.679 --> 00:45:08.880
This is the biggest I've ever been.
00:45:09.039 --> 00:45:09.199
Okay.
00:45:09.360 --> 00:45:14.079
I mean, I was bigger than this and I've lost weight, but um, I was I was your size.
00:45:14.320 --> 00:45:16.880
I was the size of Dallas Bragg once.
00:45:17.440 --> 00:45:19.440
And I was gorgeous.
00:45:20.480 --> 00:45:21.039
Trade.
00:45:21.199 --> 00:45:22.159
Where are you at?
00:45:25.119 --> 00:45:26.559
Um, okay, okay.
00:45:26.800 --> 00:45:40.800
So on the page, uh I guess the who could also use your pay Instagram page would be people in uh working in the field of homelessness, trying to help homeless people find resources too, right?
00:45:41.119 --> 00:45:41.599
Absolutely.
00:45:41.760 --> 00:45:55.119
So um Sharp helped me find a place for housing, and then I posted that place on housing on my Instagram um with Sharp's information on it, or with other organizations that are dealing are working with that program.
00:45:55.280 --> 00:45:58.559
Um yeah, that one got me a lot of hits on Instagram.
00:45:58.800 --> 00:45:59.199
Yeah.
00:45:59.360 --> 00:46:07.599
Um also if you're homeless and you have a car, there's places you can be in your car, um, a private lot secured with security officers.
00:46:07.760 --> 00:46:08.000
Really?
00:46:08.320 --> 00:46:10.800
And restrooms and showers.
00:46:11.199 --> 00:46:14.000
So you could be housed in your car.
00:46:14.159 --> 00:46:14.480
Okay.
00:46:14.639 --> 00:46:16.960
We're not gonna call it home, but we'll call it a house.
00:46:17.199 --> 00:46:17.840
It's something.
00:46:18.079 --> 00:46:18.559
It's something.
00:46:18.719 --> 00:46:18.880
Yeah.
00:46:19.039 --> 00:46:20.719
I'm all about the tiny house movement too.
00:46:20.880 --> 00:46:21.840
I want a tiny house.
00:46:22.079 --> 00:46:22.639
Yeah.
00:46:23.599 --> 00:46:35.280
There's a lot of dilapidated buildings here in Los Angeles that are vacant that we have the many resources to um to fix up and house people in, but yeah, politics being what they are.
00:46:35.519 --> 00:46:35.760
Yeah.
00:46:35.920 --> 00:46:36.159
Yeah.
00:46:36.400 --> 00:46:39.519
So three more months in sunrise shelter.
00:46:39.679 --> 00:46:39.920
Yes.
00:46:40.159 --> 00:46:41.679
Three more months of Ubering.
00:46:41.840 --> 00:46:42.480
Yes.
00:46:42.880 --> 00:46:45.199
What do you think will happen after that?
00:46:46.480 --> 00:46:50.159
Um, well, I'm hoping to get into stable housing.
00:46:50.400 --> 00:46:56.079
Um there are people that have approached me that have beds available, but they want so much money in rent.
00:46:56.239 --> 00:46:56.400
Okay.
00:46:56.719 --> 00:46:57.679
$1200 a month.
00:46:57.840 --> 00:47:05.199
So$1200 a month in rent for a bed um in a shared room is is kind of you know, you it sounds like a lot, but it's LA.
00:47:05.679 --> 00:47:06.800
So for what you're getting.
00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:06.960
Yeah.
00:47:07.280 --> 00:47:10.000
And everything's is fully is fully furnished.
00:47:10.079 --> 00:47:12.800
You have a washer and dryer, there's a kitchen there.
00:47:13.199 --> 00:47:16.079
So it's I think it's very, very European.
00:47:16.320 --> 00:47:20.880
You know, there's a lot of those things where you get you get your room where you get everything else with it.
00:47:21.280 --> 00:47:23.440
So what will happen then?
00:47:23.920 --> 00:47:27.519
So what happens after three months if you don't get a a space?
00:47:28.480 --> 00:47:29.679
Uh I'm gonna get a space.
00:47:29.840 --> 00:47:30.559
You are gonna get a space.
00:47:30.719 --> 00:47:31.599
I'm gonna get a space.
00:47:31.760 --> 00:47:32.559
Uh yes.
00:47:32.719 --> 00:47:38.079
If if not, um I think the shelter will let me or maybe I can find another shelter to go into.
00:47:38.719 --> 00:47:40.079
Um that's the fear.
00:47:40.159 --> 00:47:40.639
I don't know.
00:47:40.880 --> 00:47:41.360
Yeah.
00:47:41.599 --> 00:47:42.079
Yeah.
00:47:42.400 --> 00:47:43.199
I don't know.
00:47:43.440 --> 00:47:45.199
And that's why the system is kind of broken.
00:47:45.440 --> 00:47:47.119
You just don't know where you go after you graduate.
00:47:47.360 --> 00:47:47.519
Right.
00:47:47.679 --> 00:47:49.840
There's no transition plan.
00:47:50.719 --> 00:47:51.519
We just don't know.
00:47:51.840 --> 00:47:55.039
But that's why they give you that much much time to save your money for six months.
00:47:55.119 --> 00:47:55.280
Yeah.
00:47:55.440 --> 00:47:58.480
So you can afford your first month's rent and your last your deposit.
00:47:58.639 --> 00:47:59.039
Mm-hmm.
00:47:59.119 --> 00:47:59.519
Mm-hmm.
00:47:59.840 --> 00:48:00.159
Okay.
00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:00.880
Yeah.
00:48:01.119 --> 00:48:02.079
That's the idea.
00:48:02.320 --> 00:48:02.559
Right.
00:48:02.960 --> 00:48:03.280
Right.
00:48:03.599 --> 00:48:03.840
Okay.
00:48:04.239 --> 00:48:04.480
Yeah.
00:48:04.719 --> 00:48:07.280
So if it's like three thousand dollars, you know what I mean?
00:48:07.440 --> 00:48:09.519
You have enough and then you're supposed to be able to make it after that.
00:48:09.679 --> 00:48:10.079
Mm-hmm.
00:48:10.320 --> 00:48:11.519
So I think that's the plan.
00:48:11.760 --> 00:48:12.000
Yeah.
00:48:12.159 --> 00:48:14.559
Yeah, I've got some money saved up, so Okay.
00:48:15.039 --> 00:48:17.599
About fifteen hundred, so far.
00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:18.239
Yeah.
00:48:18.480 --> 00:48:19.840
But we have expenses.
00:48:20.239 --> 00:48:20.639
Right.
00:48:21.760 --> 00:48:24.800
But they do give you three three square meals a day at the shelter.
00:48:24.960 --> 00:48:25.199
Okay.
00:48:25.440 --> 00:48:28.719
And um you know, and laundry services.
00:48:29.039 --> 00:48:29.360
They do.
00:48:29.519 --> 00:48:30.079
Yes, they do.
00:48:30.239 --> 00:48:30.559
Okay.
00:48:30.800 --> 00:48:33.599
So you have to be able to qualify for these programs.
00:48:34.159 --> 00:48:49.440
But um, if you take yourself to any available emergency room uh that's willing to intake you, um, you know, you tell them that you're hearing voices, um, and then they'll intake you for put you on a seven-day hold.
00:48:49.679 --> 00:48:51.519
And then from there that's when they'll put you into a shelter.
00:48:51.760 --> 00:48:52.079
Really?
00:48:53.199 --> 00:48:56.400
This is good information to know as far as how to work the system.
00:48:56.719 --> 00:48:57.599
Work the system.
00:48:57.840 --> 00:48:59.920
They're working it on us all the time.
00:49:00.239 --> 00:49:00.639
All right.
00:49:00.880 --> 00:49:01.440
Am I right?
00:49:01.679 --> 00:49:02.079
You're right.
00:49:02.159 --> 00:49:02.400
You're right.
00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:10.719
So if I'm in LA and I find myself homeless today, I just got evicted.
00:49:10.960 --> 00:49:12.800
What would be the first thing to do?
00:49:13.920 --> 00:49:21.039
If you found out you're evicted today, the first thing you'd want to do is go get a gym membership so you can take showers just in case.
00:49:21.199 --> 00:49:21.360
Yeah.
00:49:21.519 --> 00:49:21.679
Okay.
00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:23.519
And you can have a place to be.
00:49:23.760 --> 00:49:29.199
The next thing you want to do is you want to take your driver's license and your social security card over to the TDD office.
00:49:29.280 --> 00:49:30.800
Not not TDD office, I'm sorry.
00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:32.559
Um, to the Department of Social Services.
00:49:32.639 --> 00:49:32.719
Okay.
00:49:32.960 --> 00:49:35.280
So you can get your GR and your food stamps.
00:49:35.519 --> 00:49:35.679
Okay.
00:49:35.920 --> 00:49:36.480
What's GR?
00:49:36.719 --> 00:49:37.599
General relief.
00:49:37.760 --> 00:49:37.920
Okay.
00:49:38.239 --> 00:49:40.800
Uh, which is about two hundred dollars a month, I believe.
00:49:41.199 --> 00:49:41.679
General relief.
00:49:41.920 --> 00:49:43.599
And three hundred and ninety dollars in food stamps.
00:49:43.840 --> 00:49:44.079
Okay.
00:49:44.559 --> 00:49:46.320
Um, the first thing you want to do.
00:49:46.480 --> 00:49:50.960
Uh after that, you want to go to um Sunrise Shelter.
00:49:51.199 --> 00:49:54.480
Um I'll give you the information for that so you can leave it in your caption.
00:49:54.719 --> 00:49:55.039
Okay.
00:49:55.199 --> 00:49:57.360
Um, and then they'll do an intake with you.
00:49:57.440 --> 00:50:00.800
You have to know what to say so you can qualify.
00:50:00.960 --> 00:50:10.559
Um, if you don't qualify under just having because they they give you a psychiatrist, they want to meet with the psychiatrist when I first got into the shelter, and that's how I got diagnosed.
00:50:10.800 --> 00:50:21.760
But it was actually um somebody who helped me because I I didn't know what to say, because you know you're you're homeless, you're incoherent, you don't have a a watch anymore, you don't know what time of day it is, you just you're you're in survival mode.
00:50:21.920 --> 00:50:22.159
Wow.
00:50:22.320 --> 00:50:28.960
But um you're hearing voices, uh, you have thoughts about walking on the freeway, say things like that, and that's how you get in.
00:50:29.280 --> 00:50:30.559
Yeah, yeah, okay.
00:50:30.800 --> 00:50:32.000
And these things are true.
00:50:32.159 --> 00:50:35.840
People people I mean, you see people talking themselves on the train and stuff like that.
00:50:36.239 --> 00:50:38.320
These are suicidal ideations.
00:50:38.559 --> 00:50:38.880
Yeah.
00:50:39.039 --> 00:50:40.719
Well, especially if you're using myth.
00:50:40.880 --> 00:50:42.480
Especially the myth that's out there now.
00:50:43.599 --> 00:50:47.119
I I can tell you stories about things I've heard when I was on meth.
00:50:47.360 --> 00:50:49.679
Yeah, I thought I was being haunted by a ghost.
00:50:51.119 --> 00:50:52.159
Yeah, I mean, it's common.
00:50:52.719 --> 00:50:53.119
Very common.
00:50:53.440 --> 00:50:57.039
Psychosis, especially now with the myth that's out there.
00:50:57.280 --> 00:50:58.239
Um, yeah.
00:50:58.400 --> 00:51:00.400
Well, I just think it's great what you're doing.
00:51:00.880 --> 00:51:01.679
It's great what you're doing.
00:51:02.079 --> 00:51:03.599
Oh my god, you reach so many people.
00:51:03.840 --> 00:51:04.079
Thank you.
00:51:04.320 --> 00:51:05.280
You've seen his followers?
00:51:05.519 --> 00:51:06.239
Insane.
00:51:07.599 --> 00:51:08.320
We love it.
00:51:08.480 --> 00:51:08.880
We love it.
00:51:09.039 --> 00:51:09.679
Yeah, yeah.
00:51:10.400 --> 00:51:10.639
Yeah.
00:51:10.719 --> 00:51:13.920
Well, we want everybody to follow you and watch this.
00:51:14.320 --> 00:51:18.880
Please follow me on how to be homeless in LA or under the real thickcums.
00:51:19.280 --> 00:51:23.360
The space, real space thickums, t-h-i-c-c-um s.
00:51:24.079 --> 00:51:26.159
And we'll put that in the show notes.
00:51:26.320 --> 00:51:27.840
Um, I think it's very helpful.
00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:32.400
And, you know, even in a small city like I'm in Charlotte, where I was homeless.
00:51:32.719 --> 00:51:33.519
Ooh, how's that?
00:51:33.599 --> 00:51:34.320
How's it been going on?
00:51:34.559 --> 00:51:41.199
It was very, it was just, it was very um i difficult to navigate.
00:51:41.599 --> 00:51:47.039
You know, even in a small city, the the resources are just siloed.
00:51:47.440 --> 00:52:02.559
You know, there's not one place to go to say, you know, it's a but now we have a number, I think it's 211 or something like that, that you call, and it's supposed to be just an integrated continuum of care kind of system, and they will get you to where you go.
00:52:02.719 --> 00:52:06.639
But, you know, even just navigating the bus for me was difficult.
00:52:06.800 --> 00:52:16.079
I would get on the right bus but the wrong direction in like shit like that, and then they'd make me late for work, or then I wouldn't have a job anymore, and it was just just like it was it was difficult.
00:52:16.159 --> 00:52:27.199
And then what I remember one day I traveled all the way, it took me all day to get across the city to the um Social Security office because I needed a Social Security card.
00:52:27.519 --> 00:52:31.360
Stood in line for like an hour and a half to two hours, and they closed.
00:52:31.599 --> 00:52:32.079
Oh my god.
00:52:32.320 --> 00:52:33.440
I didn't get anything.
00:52:33.599 --> 00:52:34.480
I had nothing.
00:52:34.800 --> 00:52:37.199
That was all day, you know, starving.
00:52:37.920 --> 00:52:38.719
Yeah, yeah.
00:52:38.960 --> 00:52:44.880
It's just we it something like you're doing, I think, and using social media is just perfect.
00:52:45.039 --> 00:52:49.119
And I think it's probably helping a lot more people out here than what you m might realize.
00:52:49.360 --> 00:52:51.280
That's exactly what Malik Henry said.
00:52:51.440 --> 00:52:59.280
And I just want to encourage people out there that if you have a friend that's experiencing homelessness, offer them a shower, offer them to do a load of laundry.
00:52:59.519 --> 00:53:02.079
Um, those things like things like that really help a lot.
00:53:02.239 --> 00:53:02.480
Yeah.
00:53:02.639 --> 00:53:03.840
People always ask, what can I do?
00:53:03.920 --> 00:53:04.880
What can I do?
00:53:05.760 --> 00:53:07.760
Just be put yourself in their shoes.
00:53:07.920 --> 00:53:08.719
Yeah, yes.
00:53:08.960 --> 00:53:14.400
But a sh a shower and some laundry is I mean, you don't have to let me sleep in your house, but a shower would be amazing.
00:53:14.559 --> 00:53:14.800
Right.
00:53:14.960 --> 00:53:16.159
And some laundry, thank you so much.
00:53:16.559 --> 00:53:18.559
A shower can make such a difference.
00:53:19.760 --> 00:53:21.039
You know, a haircut.
00:53:21.280 --> 00:53:21.679
Yeah.
00:53:21.840 --> 00:53:23.679
You know you know how good you feel after you get a haircut.
00:53:24.559 --> 00:53:25.840
You feel like you got your integrity back?
00:53:26.000 --> 00:53:26.400
Yeah.
00:53:26.719 --> 00:53:27.199
Yeah.
00:53:27.440 --> 00:53:29.039
Things like that really help a lot.
00:53:29.199 --> 00:53:29.519
Yeah.
00:53:29.679 --> 00:53:30.880
So there's always a way.
00:53:31.039 --> 00:53:32.880
It doesn't have to cost you very much money at all.
00:53:33.679 --> 00:53:34.719
Or just a listening ear.
00:53:34.960 --> 00:53:35.840
A listening ear.
00:53:35.920 --> 00:53:36.320
Mm-hmm.
00:53:36.480 --> 00:53:36.880
I love it.
00:53:37.119 --> 00:53:37.760
Am I right?
00:53:38.079 --> 00:53:43.280
Anything I missed today that you wish we would have touched on that you like to get out there?
00:53:44.079 --> 00:53:50.639
Um, self-love, self-acceptance um are the most important things you can do if you're trying to get sober.
00:53:50.800 --> 00:53:52.480
Um, you don't need the meth.
00:53:52.559 --> 00:53:53.760
You are enough.
00:53:54.079 --> 00:53:56.239
Um, you are sexy.
00:53:56.800 --> 00:54:00.159
Uh you do sometimes the sex is better by yourself.
00:54:00.320 --> 00:54:00.880
Am I right?
00:54:01.039 --> 00:54:03.599
Because if you've had bad sex, you know what I'm talking about.
00:54:03.920 --> 00:54:06.880
Um other than that, I think that's pretty much it.
00:54:07.039 --> 00:54:07.920
Know that you're enough.
00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:08.960
Know that you can do it.
00:54:09.119 --> 00:54:12.960
Take your time, take a breath, stay focused, and get disciplined.
00:54:14.239 --> 00:54:14.639
I love it.
00:54:14.719 --> 00:54:16.320
And congratulations on your recovery.
00:54:16.559 --> 00:54:17.039
Thank you very much.
00:54:17.119 --> 00:54:17.360
Thank you.
00:54:17.440 --> 00:54:20.079
It's people like you and watching your Instagram that have helped me stay sober.
00:54:20.400 --> 00:54:21.039
So thank you.
00:54:21.280 --> 00:54:21.760
It's true.
00:54:21.840 --> 00:54:24.480
We need education and we need more public restrooms outside.
00:54:24.800 --> 00:54:25.840
Yes, we do.
00:54:26.559 --> 00:54:28.800
For everybody, not just the unhoused.
00:54:29.119 --> 00:54:30.639
And we need me too.
00:54:30.800 --> 00:54:31.280
And you know what?
00:54:31.360 --> 00:54:32.320
We need a better system.
00:54:32.400 --> 00:54:38.239
You were talking about people in Charlotte and how you went about things and how there's like only one place to get numbers like 211.
00:54:38.480 --> 00:54:40.239
Those numbers don't help anybody.
00:54:40.480 --> 00:54:42.320
We we have 311 for us.
00:54:42.400 --> 00:54:45.039
Oh and it is not the business, it's not the same.
00:54:45.199 --> 00:54:45.440
Yeah.
00:54:45.679 --> 00:54:52.239
Um, and so we need more nonprofit organizations doing things to help people, more charities.
00:54:52.559 --> 00:54:53.199
Just coordinate.
00:54:53.440 --> 00:54:58.159
Yeah, we need our council members to do to do seven, but you know, words into real action.
00:54:58.400 --> 00:54:58.719
Yeah.
00:54:58.800 --> 00:54:59.119
Yeah.
00:54:59.599 --> 00:55:00.719
I think so too.
00:55:01.119 --> 00:55:01.679
Thank you.
00:55:02.559 --> 00:55:04.800
Thank you so very much for taking time for me today.
00:55:05.119 --> 00:55:06.800
Thickums from Mayor, you're very welcome.
00:55:07.199 --> 00:55:07.679
Nice meeting you.
00:55:07.920 --> 00:55:08.559
Nice meeting you too.
00:55:08.639 --> 00:55:09.840
Oh, finally in person.
00:55:10.079 --> 00:55:11.679
All right, I hope you enjoyed this episode.
00:55:11.840 --> 00:55:15.119
If you have any comments, please leave them on YouTube or Spotify.
00:55:15.280 --> 00:55:16.320
You can reach Thickums.
00:55:16.639 --> 00:55:21.360
I'm going to put his Instagram low his Instagram handle in the show notes.
00:55:21.519 --> 00:55:25.280
If you have a question for me, you can reach me anywhere at any time on social media.
00:55:25.519 --> 00:55:26.320
Have a great week.
00:55:26.480 --> 00:55:27.599
Thickums out.